WEBVTT 00:00.351 --> 00:03.834 [SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is a member of the Voices of Wrestling Podcasting Network. 00:04.154 --> 00:12.500 [SPEAKER_00]: Visit Voicesof Wrestling.com to hear the rest of our great podcast as well as show reviews, columns, opinions, and updates across the world of wrestling. 00:39.670 --> 00:41.137 [SPEAKER_02]: Look at that one so far! 00:41.157 --> 00:41.459 [UNKNOWN]: Help me! 01:08.803 --> 01:12.224 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Open the Voice Gate 4 November 3rd, 2026. 01:12.904 --> 01:14.705 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, case and I are doing this tonight. 01:15.505 --> 01:18.506 [SPEAKER_01]: We are members of the Voices of Wrestling Podcast Network. 01:18.546 --> 01:24.508 [SPEAKER_01]: You could find us on the Voices of Wrestling Podcast feed or on our own dedicated Open the Voice Gate Podcast feed. 01:24.548 --> 01:31.730 [SPEAKER_01]: Wherever you get your podcast, and you can follow us on social media at Open the Voice Gate, both on Twitter and on Blue Skywide. 01:32.270 --> 01:35.791 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, like to know that if you like to donate to the show, click the link in the show notes. 01:35.871 --> 01:37.572 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll take you to ourredsircle.com. 01:37.592 --> 01:45.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Lending site, you can click the red boxes to sponsor this podcast in a separate one time, or reoccurring donation, no obligation whatsoever. 01:45.514 --> 01:47.495 [SPEAKER_01]: We would like to thank all of our previous donors. 01:47.975 --> 01:53.036 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm of your host, It's Real Pal, Mike Spirish, joined alongside your other host case, low-end case. 01:53.116 --> 01:58.858 [SPEAKER_01]: This is exactly what I would want to do tonight, given what time it is in America. 01:59.232 --> 02:12.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess we have to clarify for the European delegation out there if it's mid-term night in America, which would be, which would be why it might be on Mike's mind more so that my and Chicago. 02:12.250 --> 02:13.672 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what's going to change here. 02:13.772 --> 02:14.013 [SPEAKER_00]: But. 02:14.653 --> 02:19.255 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I mean, this is the the the fabled thing might finally be happening. 02:19.836 --> 02:25.738 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of wild down here and to see, but that's not why we're here tonight, case. 02:25.979 --> 02:29.240 [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's been a while and it's been missing us. 02:29.380 --> 02:30.581 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this week. 02:30.701 --> 02:35.583 [SPEAKER_01]: We are getting back to the dragon system buffet, but before we get into that. 02:35.923 --> 02:37.064 [SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing this week, bud? 02:37.604 --> 02:38.504 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm well. 02:38.584 --> 02:39.625 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope that you're the same. 02:40.265 --> 03:00.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, we were talking before the show got finally after four months of kind of misery, good news for about Pudge's health that like we were just the dog was limping for some reason and the veterinary field as we have like kind of discovered over the last few months is an absolute beating. 03:01.101 --> 03:07.226 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a lot like the United States health care field and its own kind of ways but fortunately we got to get an answer. 03:07.686 --> 03:28.543 [SPEAKER_01]: last week after four months, but the thing that gets you is that we essentially had to go from his standard vet to a specialist to a second specialist and no one would tell you anything until essentially last week when we met the second specialist who within five minutes told us exactly what was going on, got a medication that 03:29.063 --> 03:46.057 [SPEAKER_01]: Fortunately for him, as a good chance, he's already seeing a lot of better movements, he's not lumping anymore, and it's a wild thing that basically my dog might have an overactive immune system, and we have to kind of tamp it down a little bit. 03:46.097 --> 03:55.005 [SPEAKER_01]: But dude, four months of essentially going around going like, we don't think this is like a serious, but like a like a like a left life or death immediate thing. 03:55.425 --> 03:57.568 [SPEAKER_01]: but we did not know anything about it. 03:57.588 --> 03:59.371 [SPEAKER_01]: So your mind just gets the race for four months. 03:59.451 --> 04:03.636 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like we're finally having a little bit of rest with Pudge in the spirit household. 04:03.957 --> 04:04.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 04:04.598 --> 04:04.818 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 04:04.838 --> 04:05.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 04:05.198 --> 04:05.619 [SPEAKER_00]: Good news. 04:05.639 --> 04:06.240 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that. 04:06.400 --> 04:06.961 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that. 04:07.695 --> 04:13.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I know, and the well-think within 24 hours on the medication, he stopped lumping and toe touching. 04:13.739 --> 04:32.452 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was really positive to see, but that's what's been going on around here, but as I mentioned a couple of minutes ago, we felt like this week would be a good time and that we haven't really visited the greater dragon system universe in a while. 04:32.472 --> 04:33.273 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's been 04:33.873 --> 04:42.498 [SPEAKER_01]: since maybe would have been before Tokyo Infinite Hector Pascal, since we've done a buffet or might have been since before Kobe World. 04:43.139 --> 04:44.780 [SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely been a while. 04:44.920 --> 04:46.761 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember the last time that we did there. 04:46.941 --> 04:52.564 [SPEAKER_00]: I know I was lobbying Mike for another those days, because I want to say that I really appreciate the feedback. 04:52.584 --> 04:53.905 [SPEAKER_00]: We got on the episode last week. 04:53.925 --> 04:56.987 [SPEAKER_00]: I got a number of nice DMs about how much they're enjoying that series. 04:57.047 --> 05:01.129 [SPEAKER_00]: And now as we transition to 1997, some really interesting stuff there. 05:04.173 --> 05:23.902 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess if you listen to the podcast, there's I don't see any way you wouldn't find this interesting, but in the open the voice gate channel on the voices of wrestling discord Tim Cook, who I know was a listener exclusively of those days and will never hear this episode because it's talking about modern day dragon gate he had a really interesting anecdote we were talking about the 121 05:25.460 --> 05:38.498 [SPEAKER_00]: 97 battle arts eight man tag last week, which is a high point in the series so far, one of the better Mitch Noku pro multi man matches in history, and we had remarked on that show if you haven't listened to it yet about, you know, it's just so odd that. 05:39.343 --> 05:56.781 [SPEAKER_00]: ditch never had this on his side and I don't think it made any of the dvdr yearbooks and it feels like it and it's also weird because it's a midchnoku pro match happening on the battle art show and there's all this weirdness surrounding this match that I think has hurt its legacy because it should be considered one of the best matches 05:57.381 --> 06:12.998 [SPEAKER_00]: in 1990s, Japanese wrestling and Tim had a very interesting explanation as to why that mash it circulated as well and who got the tape win and all this stuff that you know, you would only know that if you're living through it in real time, but it's exciting to have that perspective in. 06:13.774 --> 06:17.597 [SPEAKER_00]: in the discord now in the open the voice gay channel, but those days will return soon it. 06:17.657 --> 06:19.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Dranky has such a slow October. 06:20.039 --> 06:20.180 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 06:20.200 --> 06:24.263 [SPEAKER_00]: November, especially this next week, we'll be much busier with a cork and haul show. 06:24.283 --> 06:29.468 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Kobe Sumble haul show on Sunday with the first ever dream game match happening in Kobe Sumble Hall. 06:29.548 --> 06:35.613 [SPEAKER_01]: But before we get there, but that's it for the network until the Okinawa shows, I think. 06:36.538 --> 06:37.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is it really? 06:37.919 --> 06:43.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because after he'll go, they don't air the ginkie homecoming shows. 06:43.625 --> 06:45.307 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're off the network after. 06:45.467 --> 06:47.149 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that makes sense because it's the same. 06:47.169 --> 06:50.052 [SPEAKER_00]: We had this problem with King of Gate last year when it was in November. 06:50.072 --> 06:51.493 [SPEAKER_00]: We were worried we were going to get anything. 06:51.533 --> 06:55.077 [SPEAKER_00]: So, oh, good news for fans of those days. 06:55.937 --> 06:59.878 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I am seeing, I'm looking at schedules and such. 07:00.598 --> 07:07.520 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not see that the, the, the, them, this, Okinawa show is making the network a sign. 07:07.540 --> 07:11.381 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I was hoping that the Nagoya show is from today, right? 07:11.801 --> 07:13.101 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to. 07:13.301 --> 07:15.582 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the UT homecoming show, which those down in luck. 07:15.622 --> 07:15.762 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, 07:16.522 --> 07:29.950 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a much, much, much smaller venue than the Nagoya Conference Center where they had been running since the days of Tory mod, which they all, we've talked about this, this used to be a big talking point on the show is just how well during it does in the Goi, specifically. 07:30.458 --> 07:31.939 [SPEAKER_00]: but that venue is under construction. 07:32.359 --> 07:39.745 [SPEAKER_00]: So they've now moved the UT homecoming show to the Nagoya International Legend Hall, which is a much smaller venue. 07:39.765 --> 07:41.126 [SPEAKER_00]: They do a day night double header. 07:41.867 --> 07:45.629 [SPEAKER_00]: Both times they've run there this year, those shows have sold out in advance. 07:46.090 --> 07:53.636 [SPEAKER_00]: We got the January shows on the network because that was the site of the Big Boss Shimizu versus UT match that I loved so much. 07:53.716 --> 07:56.818 [SPEAKER_00]: And some really fun matches on both of those cards. 07:57.058 --> 07:58.579 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why we didn't get these, 07:59.640 --> 08:00.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing from Nagoya. 08:00.801 --> 08:05.183 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get Corkin, Kobe, and then that, that is going to be it for the end of the month. 08:05.243 --> 08:05.784 [SPEAKER_00]: It looks like. 08:06.344 --> 08:10.046 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we'll be revisiting those days properly in a few weeks. 08:10.106 --> 08:12.748 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're going to speed our way through 1997. 08:12.788 --> 08:14.308 [SPEAKER_01]: That feels pretty good. 08:14.328 --> 08:19.071 [SPEAKER_01]: But before you know it, I'm going to have to drop the Sasuke UFO dossier on you. 08:19.271 --> 08:27.356 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, so I'm looking at the schedule right now on the on the Drain Gate website and they've got the network logo on the Corkin All Show. 08:27.795 --> 08:31.937 [SPEAKER_00]: and the sample haul show and then nothing until the December quirk and show on the second. 08:33.098 --> 08:36.580 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what I thought let me see. 08:36.740 --> 08:38.921 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just just verifying this. 08:39.101 --> 08:49.847 [SPEAKER_01]: No, couldn't vera saying that can't a gala and couldn't a moto or airing on the network, at least on the life streaming schedule I'm seeing what I'll take that. 08:49.907 --> 08:51.087 [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, that's okay. 08:51.107 --> 08:54.529 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the Susumu show at the Ganky Show, which last year 08:56.837 --> 09:13.518 [SPEAKER_00]: handhelds of because that's when they did the lead of versus the suit we wouldn't the lead of versus ganky which I still think that the lead of versus the suit we match was just a rather enjoyable one and one that I'm really glad that we got on tape so or but that might have been the spring but nevertheless it was those it was those venues for sure 09:14.249 --> 09:30.264 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was actually talking about how much fun that run was with I Johnny with someone today and about how like the I was like it was a very 1980s new Japan kind of thing, but it was like one of the best things that dragon gates done in years was I wrote a whole article about it last year. 09:30.384 --> 09:31.324 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for sure. 09:31.705 --> 09:35.428 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think there are there are two big misses with the 09:36.469 --> 09:45.814 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to there's going to be a lot of qualifiers in this in the way that I'm going to group this in the larger English speaking Japanese wrestling Pundit community. 09:45.834 --> 09:55.440 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the two big misses in modern dragon gate are people that aren't in tune with every big com a match. 09:56.197 --> 10:21.782 [SPEAKER_00]: because the people that are into and now sound insane the people that are into with just how great comedy as I know we both have more to say on that later on this episode when we get to Kyoto, but then also just missing on this voletta stuff that again, you know, to me I was I don't want to say that I was done with him, but I would have been happy with him not returning 10:22.851 --> 10:24.992 [SPEAKER_00]: after the the cocoo to match last year. 10:25.052 --> 10:27.914 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I needed more Valetta in my life. 10:27.994 --> 10:47.245 [SPEAKER_00]: But for the two years that he was there, the crickets in January, 2024, when he came into cork and haul compared to the reactions that he was getting at this time last year, the, you know, what I thought was a thrilling baby face turn to Cypatra, and that's shortly of June at where where there was the four of them. 10:47.305 --> 10:48.346 [SPEAKER_00]: It seemed like there were some real 10:50.307 --> 11:08.688 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the more, like you and I used to talk a lot about, you know, oh, if this were a comp DVD, these were the matches that would be on it, if you were going to make a Gianni Valetta comp DVD 20 24 and 20 25, that would be a really fun thing to view start to finish because they told a great story all the way through. 11:09.168 --> 11:11.889 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see what comes of him in love and peace going forward. 11:11.909 --> 11:20.514 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little less enthused of it, a buy it than maybe some other people are just because again, I felt like they put a bow on the letter, and they should have shipped him off to their territory. 11:20.894 --> 11:27.217 [SPEAKER_00]: But, I think the larger wrestling community not recognizing what a great story this has been. 11:27.237 --> 11:31.379 [SPEAKER_00]: It's saying the strides that he made as a worker and just embracing that story for what it was. 11:31.399 --> 11:32.660 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a pretty big mess. 11:33.653 --> 11:37.855 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so while you were speaking, I did look something up. 11:38.055 --> 11:44.838 [SPEAKER_01]: According to the Drangate English Twitter account, some of the halls it for the month. 11:45.259 --> 11:57.885 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a discrepancy part of me between that, whereas December, God, there is six shows on the network in December. 12:03.825 --> 12:26.088 [SPEAKER_00]: all of the mehane which we'll talk about more later but that could be a very fun show this year yeah no for sure so a little bit uh up in the air the November schedule as it relates to uh dragon game i'd say it's like we're gonna talk a lot of that mid-spoke approach as i i got to be honest for you i don't think i don't think in twenty twenty six with the way this company's gone this year i don't think a conagawa show can carry an entire episode 12:26.560 --> 12:28.381 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, I don't think so. 12:28.801 --> 12:36.285 [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, the Kyoto show from a couple of weeks ago wasn't going to be enough to carry an entire episode. 12:36.305 --> 12:38.927 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason we're getting to it now, but not last week. 12:39.627 --> 12:52.294 [SPEAKER_01]: That is true, but I think the first stop we're going to take on this buffet episode is speaking of the Open the Voice Gait channel on the voices of wrestling discord. 12:52.854 --> 13:06.005 [SPEAKER_01]: your friend and my friend and friend to all, Alan 4L posted a really fun trios match from 1990 and CMLL, or sorry, EMLL, that too the channel. 13:06.286 --> 13:10.809 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a match that kind of took me back when I started watching it. 13:10.829 --> 13:14.933 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you checked this out a little bit before I did 13:17.465 --> 13:26.390 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't think I had, which is why it jumped out and it's something when Alan posted it, it was, you know, a lot of guys that I like. 13:26.490 --> 13:30.072 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the email L show that aired on December 2nd. 13:30.112 --> 13:32.593 [SPEAKER_00]: It took place on November 30th in Arena, Mexico. 13:32.693 --> 13:37.956 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's Los Brazos against Super Astro, Songeric Chicana, and Annie Ball. 13:38.496 --> 13:43.339 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think anybody that listens to this show and has for an extended period of time knows that, 13:43.918 --> 13:48.320 [SPEAKER_00]: in this house, we believe that Super Astero is one of the most underrated wrestlers ever. 13:48.721 --> 13:56.504 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you and I are both relatively big, Sandra could check on a fans or at least you two people don't respect his work. 13:56.645 --> 13:57.885 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a son great to kind of voter. 13:58.746 --> 13:59.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, oh, interesting. 14:00.106 --> 14:00.667 [SPEAKER_00]: I am not. 14:01.267 --> 14:01.827 [SPEAKER_00]: I am not. 14:01.927 --> 14:05.529 [SPEAKER_00]: I think not to get totally derailed immediately. 14:05.889 --> 14:09.771 [SPEAKER_00]: My Mexico this year is looking like 14:13.966 --> 14:15.927 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's probably it. 14:16.748 --> 14:19.509 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I'm there. 14:19.529 --> 14:23.672 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Rob Viper makes an extremely compelling case for Volodaur. 14:25.053 --> 14:29.816 [SPEAKER_00]: For whatever reason, if I need to be a 100% there, I'm about 97% there. 14:29.836 --> 14:32.598 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not sure I'm gonna pull the trigger on him. 14:37.103 --> 14:39.385 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a Chicana guy. 14:39.965 --> 14:46.630 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been talking a lot with Griffin Peltier about Colissetti on the Mexico ballot. 14:46.930 --> 14:55.897 [SPEAKER_00]: Who I think is a really interesting historical figure, but the more than I've dug in, the more I've gone, I think he's an interesting historical figure. 14:55.937 --> 14:57.278 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's a Hall of Famer. 14:57.298 --> 15:01.881 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just, I think I'm just voting for Blanco and Wagner the tag team this year. 15:02.948 --> 15:08.690 [SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting because I've had a check on a last year and I don't see a reason to change that boat this year. 15:09.710 --> 15:11.970 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I have been swayed on Volder. 15:11.990 --> 15:13.511 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we've talked about a couple of weeks ago. 15:14.371 --> 15:18.172 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm 50, 50 on Masquerita. 15:19.393 --> 15:21.513 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not on Masquerita. 15:21.753 --> 15:26.134 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a chance that by the time I submit my bow and I'm there on Volder and I've got to do that. 15:26.154 --> 15:27.775 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm soon because Balter knew this weekend. 15:27.835 --> 15:28.055 [SPEAKER_00]: But 15:29.282 --> 15:36.755 [SPEAKER_00]: If I, if I was submitting right now at 622 Central Standard Time on November 3rd, it would be a no-on-volead R. 15:37.913 --> 15:38.293 [SPEAKER_01]: That's fair. 15:38.413 --> 15:38.773 [SPEAKER_01]: That's fair. 15:39.194 --> 15:56.743 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess like the more I started thinking about the minis and masquerade of sagrata and thinking about like how I voted before considering like rises like trios or before I had about how strongly I felt like about missing ours though werete and the brazos, right? 15:56.783 --> 16:04.047 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if I felt so strongly about trios wrestling and about them being like the founders of like that and especially the people who 16:04.567 --> 16:08.991 [SPEAKER_01]: brought the form to like it's high like in or to prominence in Torreo. 16:09.571 --> 16:20.481 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that I should maybe it's not one to one with with them in Sangrada, but I feel like that I should be entertaining the same kind of conversations with myself about my ballot. 16:20.681 --> 16:22.222 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of why I'm 50, 50. 16:24.477 --> 16:25.597 [SPEAKER_00]: I get that, I get that. 16:25.938 --> 16:34.261 [SPEAKER_00]: But this match, like I said, low's brazos, Chicana, any ball, super astro, November 30th, technically December 2nd, 1990. 16:34.901 --> 16:43.505 [SPEAKER_00]: And Allen had put it in the Open the Voicegate channel, which I'm happy to label this the Open the Voicegate channel slash low's brazos. 16:43.905 --> 16:49.787 [SPEAKER_00]: fan zone for anybody that needs a safe space there, but the list process respects society. 16:49.967 --> 16:54.988 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just one of those things where like, I will talk about it on that. 16:55.008 --> 17:09.392 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll talk about what we get into the match, but that, you know, they're just they have crept their way into becoming one of my favorite acts that there's tape of and that I want to go out of my way, especially, I mean, you and I were talking about some 17:10.032 --> 17:29.666 [SPEAKER_00]: some old luchus stuff earlier this week and I just I go back and I'll look at any sort of match listing from you know eighty two eighty three eighty four UWA and I'll see what's going on in El Tereo and it's just littered with all these brazos matches that we don't have on tape that I am just so desperate to see and the footage just doesn't exist and it sucks so much but 17:31.275 --> 17:38.920 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when, and this would be an interesting conversation to have with like with clubs or with Viper or you know, somebody that's a little bit more well versed in this. 17:39.921 --> 17:56.952 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when the cutoff ends for brazos as a trio, and porky, in particular, becoming less entertaining, but the footage we have of them in the sweet spot of like 89 to 92. 17:59.625 --> 17:59.926 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 18:00.346 --> 18:13.906 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, because you not you not only have this stuff and you have a little bit of the UWA stuff that's on tape, but then this has also went home on as universal kicks in and they are sneakily sub with the best guys we have in home on as universal. 18:14.667 --> 18:15.007 [SPEAKER_00]: easily. 18:15.047 --> 18:23.014 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was actually rewatching some of the modest universal last week and I was rewatching a brazos match. 18:23.435 --> 18:38.368 [SPEAKER_01]: And the way that they as a trio operate and the understanding of both what kind of physicality they need to do for their act and then for guys of their size, especially porkey. 18:41.190 --> 19:00.065 [SPEAKER_01]: that I don't want to like and like do like the super boy or porky kind of conversation is not fair to those who guys like be like oh hey these are two guys who are known for being rather Ruben asks so like I'm not going to do like that big but porky in 1990 was flying around poor people incredible 19:00.703 --> 19:18.402 [SPEAKER_01]: He is going for it the way that they kind of work this match around a super ash rose head butts like my god super ash show does like one one of the top that that the top said he does and especially like going into the premiere was so like precision point like that's why we 19:19.723 --> 19:39.329 [SPEAKER_01]: TopicCon, or suicide, TopicSuitas, or just general things are supposed to be headbutt base moves because every time Super Astro does one, it looks like he's going for a headbutt and it looks amazing and I'm not sure, you know, sometimes I watch a match like this and I try to view it through the lens of, okay. 19:40.232 --> 19:50.280 [SPEAKER_00]: what could you do either on American TV today that would hold up or what could you do in a rena mexico in twenty twenty six that would still hold up. 19:50.320 --> 20:07.593 [SPEAKER_00]: Now unfortunately the people booking in a rena mexico are like yeah what would work on American TV in twenty twenty six we should do more of that which is counterproductive to you know when I want out of my CMLL but sure you know I'm not sure if the exaggerated superstar ahead but 20:08.338 --> 20:12.930 [SPEAKER_00]: that he does repeatedly in this match, including once to the floor, which I thought was a really, really cool spot. 20:13.732 --> 20:15.135 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if that 20:16.414 --> 20:22.457 [SPEAKER_00]: works if that would work with most of the 2026 fans that would watch this. 20:23.237 --> 20:24.998 [SPEAKER_00]: But I know I like it. 20:25.458 --> 20:30.120 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that there are a lot of other things in this match that work really well. 20:30.160 --> 20:31.781 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, these brothers, trio's matches. 20:32.101 --> 20:34.362 [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to find this match last week. 20:34.382 --> 20:39.004 [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking about on those days, the essential Grand Hummatum matches. 20:39.044 --> 20:39.984 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to show somebody 20:42.785 --> 20:46.828 [SPEAKER_00]: You might not know this game, but you know, you think he's one of the 20 best wrestlers ever. 20:46.929 --> 20:49.851 [SPEAKER_00]: I had to at the very least he is one of the 40 best wrestlers ever. 20:50.311 --> 20:51.512 [SPEAKER_00]: Here are these five matches. 20:51.572 --> 21:01.721 [SPEAKER_00]: The match that I was trying to think of, and we talked about this a lot on one of these buffets that we did probably a year ago, and it's a match that I have linked on my YouTube channel on list. 21:01.761 --> 21:06.164 [SPEAKER_00]: So if anybody wants to link to this, I might just drop it in the, and the, hope the worst get channel of this episode comes out. 21:06.264 --> 21:07.145 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dude. 21:07.525 --> 21:08.166 [SPEAKER_00]: November 17th, 1990. 21:09.667 --> 21:33.592 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same Brasos Lio, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos Lina, Brasos 21:39.092 --> 21:43.575 [SPEAKER_00]: that the brazos are doing here is something that is is long gone. 21:43.835 --> 21:56.825 [SPEAKER_00]: It is extinct and I'm I'm always extremely curious to sort of follow these stylistic trends and figure out when styles of wrestling peaked and when they go away. 21:56.905 --> 21:59.126 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this with OIWA a few weeks ago. 21:59.186 --> 22:04.210 [SPEAKER_00]: The reason I like OIWA so much in New Japan right now is he's the first new 22:07.572 --> 22:09.273 [SPEAKER_00]: definitely post-pandemic. 22:09.974 --> 22:23.485 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when the last guy, I mean, it would be when game was booking a vault, but I don't know who exactly I would point to, but the reason I like Oy was so much is that he wrestles to me like a Gabe era ring of honor main adventure. 22:24.005 --> 22:29.510 [SPEAKER_00]: In this, he could have a 40-minute match with Brian Danielson in 2004, and it would make sense. 22:29.530 --> 22:30.691 [SPEAKER_00]: He could have a match with 22:32.652 --> 22:40.522 [SPEAKER_00]: and it would make sense, but that's a style that I have feared, that sort of combination of like 22:41.353 --> 22:41.953 [SPEAKER_00]: Super indie. 22:42.473 --> 22:45.894 [SPEAKER_00]: It's super, the super any style of the Twitter. 22:45.934 --> 22:51.336 [SPEAKER_01]: Like another discussion about is the super indie in general, but that's not this is not the show for that. 22:51.716 --> 23:00.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, but I think, you know, the the important distinction there is the super any style of the 2000s is dramatically different than the super any style of the 2010s. 23:00.799 --> 23:01.979 [SPEAKER_00]: The super any style of the 2000s is 23:03.860 --> 23:12.845 [SPEAKER_00]: What if we take everything good about Harley race, and we do all Japan king's roadman events? 23:13.425 --> 23:19.368 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's, you know, to some degree, I know Roy was not pulling directly from that, but Roy would have that style. 23:19.468 --> 23:22.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Chris, you're describing Chris Heroes history up until like 2012. 23:22.350 --> 23:27.953 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's the thing that punk used to like punk, you know, it's like Harley race all the time, and I, you know, I don't. 23:28.693 --> 23:32.434 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't necessarily see it as somebody that's been watching a lot of early 80s wrestling lately. 23:32.454 --> 23:36.456 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got some, I've got some 1982 Rick Flair takes if you want them to this episode. 23:36.556 --> 23:41.157 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, that was, that was the super indie main event style. 23:41.217 --> 23:51.601 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, the reason Daniels had all those hour-long matches was there was a certain level of pride in being able to go an hour as Ring of Honor World Champion just like the old 23:59.750 --> 24:14.343 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you what do you think the influences were that people were pulling from for the 2,000, 10s super indie main event style so your a a w world championship match. 24:14.883 --> 24:21.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, your non goofy PWG world championship match 24:22.198 --> 24:29.273 [SPEAKER_00]: the best of sinclair ring of honor, the best of evolve, the peak of DG USA. 24:29.434 --> 24:29.734 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 24:30.922 --> 24:35.806 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's that that has a different tone than Ray Abandoned us. 24:36.387 --> 24:36.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no. 24:36.887 --> 24:55.583 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that what you kind of got to see was a refinement, you know, because if you take, you're only taking certain people out of that top tier indie workers, right, because the what's difference between an indie show in 2008 and an 24:58.485 --> 25:01.628 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe punk's not there anymore, but a lot. 25:01.728 --> 25:07.753 [SPEAKER_01]: But after that, I mean, the lineups are still pretty similar. 25:07.793 --> 25:20.543 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think around, honestly, you know, who is one of the people, and you're going to be happy that I say this, that enter, and I think completely change out the super indie looks, Kenta. 25:21.820 --> 25:22.200 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God. 25:22.220 --> 25:22.420 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 25:22.540 --> 25:26.522 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think Kenta comes along and especially Kenta working in the States when he did. 25:26.542 --> 25:26.802 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:26.862 --> 25:27.103 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:27.143 --> 25:27.503 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:27.543 --> 25:36.187 [SPEAKER_01]: Look towards the Noah Jr's division at a time where like the super indie style was going one way whereas the trio's and the sprint style. 25:36.867 --> 25:38.268 [SPEAKER_01]: two different things in my mind. 25:38.488 --> 25:40.149 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what we're talking about here, right? 25:40.269 --> 25:45.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we're talking lutress versus Kings Road variations, right? 25:46.431 --> 25:58.317 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that Kenta is someone especially for when he came along and ring a boner and the people that got to see Kenta and ring a boner in the ways that you laid out in your article on Voices Wrestling.com. 25:59.437 --> 25:59.517 [SPEAKER_01]: up. 26:00.118 --> 26:08.582 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that Kentha is one of the personalities that really when he comes on to the scene, everyone kind of goes for Kentha. 26:09.062 --> 26:25.451 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that there's a big kind of change with that, because I think Kentha and just the way that the speed, the ferocity, I mean, not to make light, but like David Richards is the difference between the 2000s super and D in the 2010s super 26:28.495 --> 26:34.957 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, okay, so if you're this is I'm so interested in this conversation, this we might have to bump a few things so. 26:37.198 --> 26:43.080 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're, you know, if you've got a melting pot of the 2000 you're taking right 40% Kings Road. 26:46.895 --> 26:55.438 [SPEAKER_00]: 20% New Japan, 90s Junior, 20% just old school in W.A. 26:55.498 --> 26:56.938 [SPEAKER_00]: World Heavyweight Championship. 26:57.058 --> 27:00.399 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to say, Funk Flair, Territory. 27:00.799 --> 27:06.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just the general ideology of territory wrestling before National Expansions. 27:06.381 --> 27:10.662 [SPEAKER_00]: That's 20% and then 10% you're left with. 27:12.558 --> 27:15.060 [SPEAKER_01]: you know why you want hardcore ECW. 27:15.080 --> 27:16.821 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's some of that. 27:16.881 --> 27:19.903 [SPEAKER_01]: You know a little bit of Mitch and Oku pro at that point. 27:20.224 --> 27:20.944 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I live. 27:20.964 --> 27:28.009 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't really, I mean, maybe for some guys, but now for your top line workers, you'll homicides, not inspired by Mitch and Oku pro guys. 27:28.029 --> 27:30.931 [SPEAKER_01]: And then no homicides, that's why I made sure to say like ECW. 27:31.011 --> 27:38.157 [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, you know what, what I would say along similar to ECW, probably a little bit of FMW in there. 27:38.477 --> 27:39.998 [SPEAKER_01]: Not a lot, but maybe like two percent. 27:40.138 --> 27:56.061 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and some split of hardcore wrestling, and then your peak North American work rate, your Vader, Foley, Sean Michaels, steamboat, you know, you want to split those up at a five person. 27:56.101 --> 27:58.862 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that gets you a 2005 ring of honor made adventure. 27:59.342 --> 28:04.783 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to talk about a 2015 super indie main adventure, your guy that is again, 28:05.597 --> 28:18.044 [SPEAKER_00]: doing a WPWG, getting flown into ref pro will have like a semi-serious match on a wrestle circus show will go to a 16-care gold. 28:18.464 --> 28:24.428 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think you nailed it and that Kentos probably the biggest ingredient there. 28:25.088 --> 28:25.429 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 28:26.349 --> 28:27.770 [SPEAKER_01]: The more I think about the more it's Kentos. 28:28.631 --> 28:35.808 [SPEAKER_01]: which is why he's arrested was over news on our all-famer release you should be so it's on you know on my tip on my tip about he's one of the only people I'm voting for in Japan 28:36.265 --> 28:41.149 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, it's kenta and that no adjuniors division. 28:41.790 --> 28:49.396 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the idea of dragon gate more than any anyone person specifically. 28:50.137 --> 28:55.761 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think I think dragon gate probably allowed a lot of people right or wrong. 28:56.782 --> 29:01.266 [SPEAKER_00]: It gave them permission to speed things up in a way that at the time was pretty exciting. 29:01.887 --> 29:02.147 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 29:02.900 --> 29:13.386 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's a man doing dive trains, I think that that the dive trains and especially the closing stretches is the thing that changes with the Dragon Gate influence. 29:13.826 --> 29:21.510 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's those two things and then it's a mix of what's happening parallel to the super inies at the time, which is the modern day. 29:22.353 --> 29:33.662 [SPEAKER_00]: At the time the modern day, New Japan main event style, it's a little bit of that, and it's a little bit of, I'm sorry, I love you, how can we do our own version of Sean Michael's Rick Flair? 29:34.803 --> 29:39.767 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I think that's entirely fair kind of look at that. 29:40.167 --> 29:46.072 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason we mention all of this is that there is nothing in modern wrestling. 29:47.302 --> 29:48.883 [SPEAKER_00]: that is pulling from this style. 29:48.923 --> 29:52.324 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing in Mexico that's pulling from this proso style. 29:52.384 --> 29:53.625 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing in Japan. 29:54.105 --> 29:55.305 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing in America. 29:55.805 --> 29:58.546 [SPEAKER_01]: In the first endpoint of this style, weirdly enough. 29:58.827 --> 29:59.507 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Chikara. 30:02.728 --> 30:07.590 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know that does not make you happy case, but I think that the through line goes to like low size creams. 30:09.751 --> 30:12.132 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a really interesting point. 30:14.798 --> 30:17.019 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no rebuttal to that. 30:17.279 --> 30:26.403 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it makes sense that a style that was, was at its peak so great, would end with quacken bush doing a very bastardized version of it. 30:26.443 --> 30:28.644 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes, that's how a lot of good things go to die. 30:28.664 --> 30:30.785 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Padme and Revenge of the Sith. 30:31.245 --> 30:33.647 [SPEAKER_00]: where she's like, so this is where democracy dies. 30:33.667 --> 30:36.110 [SPEAKER_00]: Has everybody stands up and cheers for Chancellor Pabletine. 30:36.550 --> 30:45.299 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Mike Quackenbush is in many ways the emperor and I am Natalie Portman, so that makes a lot of sense. 30:46.351 --> 31:15.980 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I may and like because at least if you like when I look at that 2015 filter like we didn't get to this point and rewind and rewatch the DGSA series but we did talk about like the rise of Jakara at it but like everything became like at least out of Jakara was quack and bushing and other influences to be fair not just quack and bushing but but quack and bushing is like synthesis of what he wanted wrestling to be and what styles he wanted to kind of pull from. 31:17.281 --> 31:26.787 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, I don't want to do the tired wrestling in 2026 is homogenous thing because that the point's been made, the point's been made by people more eloquent than me. 31:26.847 --> 31:27.407 [SPEAKER_00]: I get that. 31:28.148 --> 31:29.488 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I talk about it a lot. 31:29.508 --> 31:30.609 [SPEAKER_00]: I should probably talk about it less. 31:31.190 --> 31:39.655 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say for all of his flaws and there are many, I do think wrestling is a little bit more exciting when you have 31:40.370 --> 31:44.094 [SPEAKER_00]: A might crack and bush going like, okay, all right, I see what's happening. 31:44.514 --> 31:49.920 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me now pull from this wave of influences that I know the rest of you aren't going to pull from. 31:50.651 --> 32:11.055 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, the interesting thing when you like not to do that super ending thing, but when you like look at what things have like fast-worded 2026, I think that that is something where people who pull from like those sorts of things as an attempt to like, 32:12.205 --> 32:27.922 [SPEAKER_01]: differentiate does not happen, but also I'm intrigued by the idea of people trying to do that on the on the local level where I feel like that that's where the ND, where USND it wrestling is going to and has been going through for like the last like six years. 32:29.103 --> 32:31.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point. 32:31.686 --> 32:32.927 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very glad. 32:34.112 --> 32:58.777 [SPEAKER_00]: that Allen linked this match is again it was it was a brazo smash around this time period that I haven't seen as we were talking I had to look up the day to this if if you like this match the match that I'm gonna recommend is nothing like the one that we're talking about now but brazo de oro versus he held us on to from nineteen ninety one mask versus hair match if for some reason you're listening to this and you haven't seen that 32:59.577 --> 33:00.998 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a central viewing. 33:01.038 --> 33:09.381 [SPEAKER_00]: It's UW-A 1991, Santo Bleeds to an astonishing degree to you. 33:09.461 --> 33:12.902 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, you know, it's UW-A 1991. 33:13.222 --> 33:15.863 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't exactly have the 1080p version of it. 33:15.883 --> 33:18.504 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no 4K remaster of it coming anytime soon. 33:18.524 --> 33:20.425 [SPEAKER_01]: We have what Roy put up on YouTube. 33:20.705 --> 33:46.359 [SPEAKER_00]: It actually you know what the one we have is the one that's santo himself put up on YouTube really Yes, I feel like I first saw it on a really I'm sure I'm sure Roy's got it But though the one that comes up initially is the one from santo's YouTube channel which is kind of sneaky good It's it's not pristine quality and even in the quality or watch you get you can't help but sit back and go Oh my god 33:46.922 --> 33:52.066 [SPEAKER_00]: Sonto is bleeding a lot, but that is, there's a lot of different direction you can go. 33:52.106 --> 33:56.029 [SPEAKER_00]: What I feel, it took me, literally took me years to get to this point. 33:56.129 --> 34:04.015 [SPEAKER_00]: I now feel educated enough in 90s, Lucha to say like, you know, if you're looking for the essential 90s, Lucha, there's a few different routes you can go. 34:04.616 --> 34:14.444 [SPEAKER_00]: I could point you at a few different directions of the, the big technical wrestling title matches, the revolutionary AAA multi-man's, the great, like I, 34:15.424 --> 34:26.550 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not watching a ton of luchin my free time right now, but if I see like if I see Rob Viper's up uploaded a black warrior match, I'm like, oh, let me like I really like the way he moves around the ring I'm really into him right now. 34:26.890 --> 34:27.551 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me watch that. 34:27.591 --> 34:40.818 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's also the 1990, 1991, 1992 UW UW Waste stuff that we have on footage and off the top of my head, I feel like Santo vs. Browser duo is probably the best UWA match that we have on tape. 34:41.639 --> 34:47.984 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I went through like a UWA 92 a couple of years ago and there is solid stuff there. 34:48.044 --> 34:50.586 [SPEAKER_01]: You will get a bunch of Hamada Hamadas in and out of there. 34:50.606 --> 35:03.295 [SPEAKER_01]: You will get a bunch of brazos and stuff like this, but it does not like it's a company that's already on the way down and you can and it feels that way it's a shame, just came something just came across my feedcase. 35:03.875 --> 35:05.657 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a match for you in a ring of honor. 35:06.738 --> 35:09.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Mark Davis is filming a match with Marcus Mathers. 35:10.181 --> 35:21.487 [SPEAKER_00]: As I was great, I mean, the more Davis, I mean, top 10 restaurants on the world this year, you know, nip it at the heels of a Kyle Fletcher, which I never thought I'd say, but my God, I no longer find him despicable. 35:21.847 --> 35:22.167 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice. 35:22.507 --> 35:29.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he, you know, hey, if, you know, if I have the pencil, he and Jake something or Jake Doyle, thank God they changed his name. 35:29.991 --> 35:32.512 [SPEAKER_00]: They they would be doing some stuff. 35:32.592 --> 35:33.212 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me do that. 35:33.272 --> 35:34.253 [SPEAKER_00]: That is an act. 35:35.315 --> 35:56.682 [SPEAKER_00]: that I am a hundred and ten percent in on big fan of what they got going on there really enjoyable so let me let me just put a bow on the on the CMLL match real quick I just I have to mention you know it's nineteen ninety CMLL we talked about how it's a style of wrestling that doesn't exist if you haven't watched the match or you haven't spent time with brazos 35:57.340 --> 35:59.841 [SPEAKER_00]: that might not make a ton of sense. 36:00.481 --> 36:04.843 [SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like as one of those that if you watch it, you will see what we mean. 36:04.883 --> 36:14.846 [SPEAKER_00]: You will get it pretty quickly that it is just, it's, you know, it can be comedic at times, but this match isn't particularly comedic. 36:15.667 --> 36:23.689 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a style of wrestling, the way they move around the ring, the grace in which, you know, porky and particular moves with for a guy, his size. 36:24.150 --> 36:24.930 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just all great. 36:25.910 --> 36:27.271 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I loved about this match. 36:27.351 --> 36:35.174 [SPEAKER_00]: The most modern thing to happen is that they set up a dive train that leads to a porcupine tope suicita. 36:35.554 --> 36:38.676 [SPEAKER_00]: And he crushes it when he hits that. 36:38.736 --> 36:39.856 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so great. 36:40.277 --> 36:41.457 [SPEAKER_00]: It made my night. 36:41.577 --> 36:43.278 [SPEAKER_00]: I smiled huge when I saw it. 36:43.878 --> 36:45.499 [SPEAKER_00]: Really fun match. 36:45.859 --> 36:50.261 [SPEAKER_00]: There are plenty of other brazos matches that are better than this one that are more high end. 36:50.641 --> 36:52.122 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is a perfect like, 36:52.562 --> 36:54.748 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I heard Mike in case like these guys, what's their deal? 36:54.768 --> 36:55.991 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a perfect introduction. 36:56.699 --> 37:15.363 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like the way that it was set up with a much more longer premiere and then pretty quick, segunda and tracera, like you get the feeling of the match and you and they build and they make the second and third fall, like they build to the fact that after the first fall, that things are going to go pretty quick with it. 37:15.863 --> 37:22.485 [SPEAKER_01]: And and especially as it relates into like the dive train that sets up the second fall there and like it is just. 37:23.145 --> 37:23.806 [SPEAKER_01]: a fun time. 37:24.026 --> 37:26.487 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I was three and a half on it, but it's just a fun match. 37:26.867 --> 37:27.728 [SPEAKER_01]: Very much all time. 37:28.348 --> 37:28.909 [SPEAKER_01]: A great time. 37:29.749 --> 37:34.012 [SPEAKER_01]: Should we from here talk a little bit about God's adokero's appearance in all Japan? 37:34.893 --> 37:36.534 [SPEAKER_00]: So we can make this super quick. 37:37.134 --> 37:49.062 [SPEAKER_00]: This is really just an excuse for me to say that when end of the end of the year awards come around for the first time as an active fan 37:51.931 --> 38:09.712 [SPEAKER_00]: All Japan pro wrestling you have my vote for promotion of the year I am you have to yeah I am astounded At the business they are doing the New Year's Eve show is almost sold out the real world tagly cork and is sold out with the chance that they might add some standing room tickets on the day of the show 38:10.714 --> 38:12.696 [SPEAKER_00]: I am so into this entire roster. 38:12.797 --> 38:15.721 [SPEAKER_00]: I am watching These shows start to finish now. 38:15.801 --> 38:24.294 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen anything from the Hokkaido tour, but that's kind of next on my list to get to but I wanted to just mention really quick that On the 38:25.492 --> 38:32.955 [SPEAKER_00]: October 22nd, Cork and show, which again, 1500 fans there, main event, me, a horror versus Ryuki Hanna, which was an awesome match. 38:33.075 --> 38:45.580 [SPEAKER_00]: It also on this show was Dice K's second motor when Kingo Machima versus Goshiyo Zaki and Swala, which rocked Dice K's second motor this year, will win the team. 38:45.620 --> 38:46.761 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been telling you this. 38:47.441 --> 38:50.722 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, Mike, it's amazing what can happen in the year. 38:51.363 --> 38:59.166 [SPEAKER_00]: I left January, 2026 going my two best wrestlers of the month or Big Boss Shimizu in Dice Case Second Motel. 38:59.486 --> 38:59.726 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 39:00.506 --> 39:02.447 [SPEAKER_00]: It has worked out for Second Motel this year. 39:02.587 --> 39:04.168 [SPEAKER_00]: It has not for Shimizu, but 39:06.040 --> 39:27.079 [SPEAKER_00]: In the FSM50, we'll be winning the TJ Perkins Memorial Award for the best wrestler with the fewest great matches, but he's been so great every time he's on tape even if he's not having a great match, he himself has been so great that he will be doing very well in my SFM50 this year. 39:28.797 --> 39:50.819 [SPEAKER_01]: as he should like a bright spot of glate whenever he pops up his stuff with ethos was tremendous but yeah no it's interesting how well got to do grow works there feels like a vibrant hill unit as they have something to do and you know Kakura Nanzai feel like a hot match, Eshen gets to be full gremlin and kato 39:51.380 --> 39:55.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't have much to do, but you look strong, and that's what you kind of want them to be in that kind of position. 39:55.342 --> 40:00.064 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was a fun enough, uh, trios, and yeah, my attention is on the New Year's Gorkin. 40:00.465 --> 40:00.705 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:00.745 --> 40:08.609 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so, so my main event on this show, so my main event on this show is Rini Yabe, Yuma, Anzai, and Yuma, Ayagi versus Asian, Kukuta, and Kato. 40:10.095 --> 40:30.823 [SPEAKER_00]: I would take a guess, and again, I am once again referring to the English speaking bubble that we exist in here, for anybody that is a regular oligopan viewer, and maybe checks in with Dragon Gate, maybe they're watching Dead or Alive, World, a big match or two here, there, you know, maybe they've watched Kobe World, and 40:31.458 --> 40:33.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Comment and read to versus the Summon Cagator this year. 40:34.499 --> 40:42.640 [SPEAKER_00]: My guess is those people have no idea that Yoshiki Kato is currently the Oprah the Dreamgate Champion because he did not wrestle like it in this match. 40:43.100 --> 40:46.461 [SPEAKER_00]: But we got all of this great Kukuta on-site stuff. 40:46.601 --> 40:50.322 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we got all of this great Rene Yabeetian stuff. 40:50.902 --> 40:54.623 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel so bad, I can't remember who it was that drew the comparison on Twitter. 40:55.023 --> 40:55.203 [SPEAKER_00]: But 40:56.063 --> 41:09.773 [SPEAKER_00]: Essentially, Rinyabe and Ishen were doing spots that were once done by Gato and Giant Baba, and seeing the comparison of those two together made me so happy. 41:09.873 --> 41:16.217 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's why I continue to be so, so, so bullish on Ishen in his future. 41:16.838 --> 41:18.379 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if I think he has a little bit of the 41:23.467 --> 41:51.465 [SPEAKER_00]: he is just one of those guys that he's going to work in all japan if he went to know what tomorrow he could slum it up and and sleez it up and know uh he's let you know let's just say he loses a few pounds and goes and does a super junior tournament he would be great there putting on his working boots he could go to Osaka pro and be a heel there he could go to Mitch no kupro and have fun there he could come to america and succeed there he is one of the great 41:53.435 --> 41:57.639 [SPEAKER_00]: multi-purpose sort of five-tool player wrestlers that we have now in your right. 41:57.679 --> 41:59.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Gajadokra with Aljpan. 41:59.561 --> 42:02.083 [SPEAKER_00]: It just works so much better than it does in Dragon Gate right now. 42:02.143 --> 42:03.084 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope we get more of them. 42:03.104 --> 42:04.906 [SPEAKER_00]: I would like to see that entire unit come over there. 42:06.180 --> 42:12.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, especially, I think, food, I could get something out of it, really. 42:12.083 --> 42:22.207 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he needs like, now that he's in this position, take him everywhere, what like he needs to be like spreading his wings a little bit and kind of diversifying if that makes sense to me. 42:23.447 --> 42:25.168 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, no, I mean, it was fun enough. 42:25.208 --> 42:31.971 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not going to back on Ayyabe, but easily him and Eashin was the most ever like them. 42:32.350 --> 42:34.511 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, yeah, I don't think that's that hot of a take. 42:34.531 --> 42:42.195 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he was born to do, he might look like O'Cada, but he was born to do late stage, Baba era comedy spots. 42:43.015 --> 42:44.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Who will be his Russia Commora? 42:46.237 --> 42:48.618 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is that where you can find it? 42:48.778 --> 42:56.422 [SPEAKER_00]: I never thought you would ask me, Mike, I never thought I'd ever thought I'd have to answer that question. 42:56.762 --> 43:01.144 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I, yeah, that is probably maybe maybe you were used on that. 43:01.804 --> 43:03.125 [SPEAKER_01]: 30 years and 30 years. 43:03.165 --> 43:07.566 [SPEAKER_00]: That is the, you know, since we're throwing out match recommendations. 43:07.646 --> 43:19.050 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I've talked about it before, but if you've never seen the match from the 89 real world tag league, the Stan Hansen, she needs you, Routin Rue versus Russia Commora giant Boba match. 43:19.970 --> 43:23.913 [SPEAKER_00]: There are people that will tell you it's one of the best matches of all Japan in the 80s. 43:24.634 --> 43:32.800 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a second tier, all Japan 80s match, but second tier is pretty goddamn high, and it is a match that everybody should watch at some point. 43:33.421 --> 43:40.466 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and especially for Boba in 89 in comparison of things up, it might be like one of the the last bigger recommendations for him. 43:40.706 --> 43:40.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 43:41.407 --> 43:42.468 [SPEAKER_00]: No, oh god, I mean, I- 43:44.931 --> 44:09.998 [SPEAKER_00]: he's got some stuff in the ninety three ninety four yeah when he's when he's in there with kobashi and masawa in the early ninety's it's very interesting i like some of that stuff but it's the ninety stuff is there's not a ton of recommendations there it's really it's the handson stuff in like eighty two eighty three eighty four handson was such a great opponent for him 44:10.411 --> 44:19.319 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's that tag match at the end of the 80s where you're like, oh, wow, that was a really special performance from Bob, but that's kind of why I always fight the last two greatest wrestlers ever. 44:20.159 --> 44:32.690 [SPEAKER_00]: There's been a lot of movement in my like 80 to 100, but I always feel like I have to have a spot for Boba at least in the mid 90s because it's that sort of one of those matches where you see just how great he truly was. 44:33.783 --> 44:49.031 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, at his core, he was, when you're a star, you're able to turn it on sometimes if your body's not completely failing, and for Baba's sake, like to be fair, like it was only getting into the mid 90s that things were really falling apart for him. 44:49.355 --> 44:53.216 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you see that photo of him pitching that was going around this week? 44:53.877 --> 44:56.137 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, no, I've seen that photo a lot. 44:56.197 --> 44:57.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 44:58.118 --> 45:00.619 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a former pitcher for the Omery Giants. 45:01.239 --> 45:09.522 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd never made like he pitched in MPB games, like he was never like an ace or a star, but show a Baba had a, uh, 45:09.902 --> 45:14.103 [SPEAKER_01]: baseball career before, uh, who was it, Tonya Numbori. 45:14.283 --> 45:15.984 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was the one who brought him in. 45:16.124 --> 45:16.264 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 45:16.324 --> 45:18.224 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, good lord. 45:18.344 --> 45:22.625 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, that's side arm long arm rotation. 45:22.645 --> 45:27.126 [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to feel like he's putting the ball in your back pocket by the time he throws it. 45:27.507 --> 45:29.127 [SPEAKER_00]: I want no part of that. 45:29.842 --> 45:53.401 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so for those who don't know, Boba was in the was on the Giants and the 55 and 55, he was a knee gun, which is basically minor leagues for two years and both both those years he was considered the best player and minor league baseball and pitching in that one by like since bait, but it is something where like 45:54.823 --> 46:06.575 [SPEAKER_01]: those games don't really count and then he was quickly out with his eyes and then he had an eye surgery and then he played one year in Tio then actually it was Ricky Dozen who brought him over. 46:06.595 --> 46:08.557 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not Toyon and Boy, my bad. 46:09.778 --> 46:10.359 [SPEAKER_00]: How dare you? 46:10.959 --> 46:16.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how dare I mess up the two sumo wrestlers who formed Japanese wrestling. 46:16.605 --> 46:16.966 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 46:17.878 --> 46:19.099 [SPEAKER_00]: So all Japan's great. 46:19.619 --> 46:24.242 [SPEAKER_00]: There are times where I go, oh god, 10 years ago, we should have started the Knowledge Pan podcast. 46:24.342 --> 46:29.086 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though historically my take has always been, I like Meohara a little less than everybody else. 46:29.826 --> 46:30.727 [SPEAKER_00]: Not in 2026. 46:30.947 --> 46:33.268 [SPEAKER_00]: I give me the track jacket. 46:33.729 --> 46:35.070 [SPEAKER_00]: I love this promotion. 46:35.210 --> 46:37.411 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to dive into this a kind of stuff. 46:37.811 --> 46:42.655 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to watch Mochazuki versus Odyssey, just to see with a freak show match 46:46.643 --> 46:50.545 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what we'll revisit Mochazuki versus honestly was that that happened today. 46:50.565 --> 46:51.686 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it was today. 46:52.806 --> 46:57.689 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I I want to watch that Very very soon. 46:57.789 --> 46:59.550 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a very fun match. 47:00.690 --> 47:01.671 [SPEAKER_00]: I like this whole roster. 47:01.691 --> 47:05.933 [SPEAKER_00]: I you know, I'm looking at the The card for 112 right now. 47:08.297 --> 47:26.687 [SPEAKER_00]: Top 2 matches Ryzen Kiyato and Shota Kofuji who I love against Dan Tamora who I love and Seigo Tachibana and then main event Musashi and Sekiyoshioka versus Yuma Anzai and Yuma Ayoyagi That I am in those are great matches and you know what good for Sekiyoshioka 47:27.433 --> 47:28.514 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I agree. 47:29.214 --> 47:36.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was a guy that felt like that he was going to be anchored to strong hearts after World One, or Russell One, I always do that. 47:37.097 --> 47:46.341 [SPEAKER_01]: Russell One, and it felt like that he could have had a fate very similar to T-Hawk and Lenniman, but man, getting all Japan getting full time there. 47:46.361 --> 47:49.663 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's much better than Lenniman's or in a YouTube channel, you know. 47:49.843 --> 47:53.665 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, boy, what a bummer of that was for those that didn't follow that story. 47:53.725 --> 48:02.809 [SPEAKER_00]: Lindenman was teasing that he had a big announcement on November 1st and I think we're all hoping that the shackles were coming off and nope, just a YouTube channel. 48:03.609 --> 48:06.510 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, nope, nope, we can't have all kinds of nice things. 48:06.550 --> 48:08.351 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine the Lindenman in all Japan. 48:09.511 --> 48:10.752 [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine Lindenman back home. 48:12.108 --> 48:16.492 [SPEAKER_00]: They need a they need at the quickly on doyens zero one to do watch the stuff. 48:17.013 --> 48:17.173 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 48:17.413 --> 48:18.054 [SPEAKER_01]: I watched it. 48:18.074 --> 48:26.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I even watched the Doi and Nakajima versus Jack and I was at touch about it in that match. 48:26.602 --> 48:29.104 [SPEAKER_01]: I Club I tabbed out of that me one second. 48:29.304 --> 48:31.126 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I watched the it was Doi. 48:31.206 --> 48:33.528 [SPEAKER_01]: It was how you boost that in Jack on that opening and I show. 48:33.548 --> 48:35.970 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I watched the entire tournament from Doi sit side 48:37.155 --> 48:41.260 [SPEAKER_01]: As did I I did not I did not watch that tag, but it was fun. 48:41.280 --> 48:46.786 [SPEAKER_01]: I I just like three out of the four guys and I'm still trying to get wrap my head around new high booze 48:48.342 --> 49:07.949 [SPEAKER_00]: Doi vs. Shomazuno, I, you know, I grind me that, doi, grind me that, doi, joe lands a love dispatch, I get why joe love dispatch, I did not like it in the same way that he liked it, but I, you know, I understand completely why that match spoke to him the way that it did, because Mizuno is awesome. 49:08.489 --> 49:11.630 [SPEAKER_00]: He's one of those guys that I'm, I'm hoping some of these Osaka 49:15.713 --> 49:18.174 [SPEAKER_01]: That was, I mean, at the very least, he is a 303 guy. 49:18.194 --> 49:20.736 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, oh, I'm in Sonno. 49:20.756 --> 49:23.177 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Mizuno was a big miss on my ballot this year. 49:23.197 --> 49:25.098 [SPEAKER_00]: That was that was my show to have Mizuno this year. 49:25.178 --> 49:31.861 [SPEAKER_00]: But, and I'm a previous Mata Fusavoter, but, you know, and those three guys together are just absolutely phenomenal. 49:32.122 --> 49:40.166 [SPEAKER_00]: But this was kind of your territory, do I close as we get to like an American TV style and every toy match that was great. 49:43.959 --> 49:48.862 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I, you know, attach a bond has been around for years and I've never thought anything of the guy in this year. 49:48.902 --> 49:50.223 [SPEAKER_00]: He's just been awesome. 49:51.223 --> 49:55.886 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I like to attach a bond a lot more in the Russell one days. 49:56.166 --> 49:58.567 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked him with a Shino. 49:59.088 --> 50:00.108 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to font Syriebe. 50:00.729 --> 50:05.231 [SPEAKER_01]: But for me, I feel like now he's kind of a nothing for me. 50:05.251 --> 50:06.112 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really? 50:06.772 --> 50:10.633 [SPEAKER_01]: I just like it is kind of doing to me. 50:10.713 --> 50:16.515 [SPEAKER_01]: He is just kind of a average standard junior heavyweight. 50:16.535 --> 50:23.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's nothing special about him to me other than he comes out and he is a he is a Kirsia Toko Japan's best friend. 50:23.858 --> 50:24.138 [SPEAKER_01]: you know. 50:24.779 --> 50:37.349 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll let me ask you this if that's your opinion on touchy bond uh uh as we as we we now reconvene on this topic that we as a guy we talked about a month ago and you and I both expressed a tremendous amount of intrigue in this person. 50:37.990 --> 50:40.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Where are you at now with Van Jack Van 50:47.073 --> 50:49.254 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's incredible. 50:49.814 --> 51:08.660 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been seeing a lot of him in Glate and when every self-so there, I, for being 19, and yeah, he's been wrestling since elementary school, I think he's as good as a young junior heavyweight as you was finding where else in the world other than like Jackie Kameh, notwithstanding. 51:09.941 --> 51:13.682 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he is such an interesting guy because, 51:15.307 --> 51:18.130 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't remember the last guy that we had like this. 51:19.712 --> 51:24.878 [SPEAKER_00]: We're the, I mean, the floor, you know, this guy could fall apart in a match very, very quickly. 51:24.938 --> 51:29.344 [SPEAKER_00]: And you started to see it happen in some times, you know, sometimes he does fall apart to be. 51:29.364 --> 51:34.390 [SPEAKER_00]: But the ceiling, I mean, you know, I thought, I thought him and do I was a four and a half star match. 51:34.946 --> 51:36.528 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was born a quarter. 51:36.648 --> 51:36.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 51:37.068 --> 51:49.120 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I did not think a month ago or two months ago, even watching this guy wrestle, T Hawken, Glee, which I really enjoyed, I didn't think that he had this sort of performance at him. 51:49.180 --> 51:51.102 [SPEAKER_00]: And what I loved about this was, 51:52.277 --> 51:56.220 [SPEAKER_00]: He messes up, I think like a lion's salt type move. 51:56.240 --> 52:00.624 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a needlessly complicated dive inside the ring. 52:00.644 --> 52:02.005 [SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty early in the match. 52:02.085 --> 52:04.788 [SPEAKER_00]: And when that happened, I was like, ugh, okay, all right. 52:04.828 --> 52:07.770 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's, you know, he might be falling apart right in front of a rise. 52:08.170 --> 52:11.093 [SPEAKER_00]: A minute later, he does a shooting star from the apron of the floor. 52:11.213 --> 52:14.356 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was all the way back in. 52:14.796 --> 52:16.077 [SPEAKER_00]: And from there they had me. 52:16.197 --> 52:17.839 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, four and a half star match. 52:18.439 --> 52:24.323 [SPEAKER_00]: with Doi and Van Vert Jack in the finals of the zero one Junior League. 52:25.024 --> 52:26.204 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought they were phenomenal. 52:26.585 --> 52:28.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Is absolutely a tremendous match. 52:29.327 --> 52:40.735 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the thing with Jack is he is a boomer bus wrestler, but he, I have a lot of patience for a boom and bus if you're able to pull off what he pulls off. 52:41.657 --> 52:54.789 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that Doi is like the exact right person to kind of hold them together and the thing that got me especially about Doi in this tournament because essentially if you like 53:07.200 --> 53:17.943 [SPEAKER_01]: The way that Doy took the closing stretch and then Jack's finish, where did you see how Doy sold the tornado DDT to put himself in perfect position for the 450 splash? 53:18.363 --> 53:23.104 [SPEAKER_00]: It was really watching Doy in these small rooms in the way that zero one is shot. 53:23.544 --> 53:32.326 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same reason that sometimes you and I get such a big kick out of the dragget how shows because you're seeing these guys move from different angles that you're not used to. 53:35.147 --> 53:38.650 [SPEAKER_00]: you just get a whole new appreciation for how great this guy is now. 53:39.331 --> 53:41.172 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw some discussion about this in the discord. 53:41.193 --> 53:42.994 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anybody's wrong for having this opinion. 53:43.735 --> 53:45.657 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Doy is had the career that. 53:46.097 --> 53:46.958 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what's had? 53:47.118 --> 53:47.979 [SPEAKER_00]: That Shingo is had. 53:47.999 --> 53:48.980 [SPEAKER_00]: That Mochizuki is had. 53:49.040 --> 53:49.920 [SPEAKER_00]: That Shima is had. 53:50.181 --> 53:51.322 [SPEAKER_00]: This is some of your coast goes had. 53:52.022 --> 53:53.884 [SPEAKER_00]: But God damn the rookie Doy is a great pro wrestler. 53:53.904 --> 53:54.745 [SPEAKER_00]: And always has been. 53:55.737 --> 54:00.598 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I mean, he is a hall of very good wrestlers. 54:00.638 --> 54:04.079 [SPEAKER_01]: He is not a Mount Rushmore wrestler unless you're talking about tag team wrestling. 54:04.099 --> 54:14.482 [SPEAKER_00]: I legitimately think he is the best tag team wrestler that is at Matt Ornick Jackson of the 21st century and by proxy one of the great tag team wrestlers ever. 54:15.562 --> 54:16.743 [SPEAKER_00]: But he's all a very good. 54:16.783 --> 54:26.190 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's, you know, again, so Sumo's had three times the queries had she was had five times the queries had Mochizuki in my time. 54:26.210 --> 54:27.250 [SPEAKER_00]: She go 10 times. 54:27.591 --> 54:34.856 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, if I'm taking their careers from an in ring standpoint, I'm going to take Doys over Yamato every time. 54:34.996 --> 54:35.536 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my god. 54:35.556 --> 54:40.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing with The thing with Doys that 54:41.739 --> 54:47.066 [SPEAKER_00]: And Torium on, you know, he misses the T2P debut show because he's right. 54:47.086 --> 54:50.531 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's much slower to develop. 54:51.624 --> 54:57.767 [SPEAKER_00]: both in terms of in-ringability and a character that would connect with the crowd. 54:57.787 --> 55:05.191 [SPEAKER_00]: He's much slower to develop than Malano than Yoshino, than Mori, than Shudji Kondo, than even Brother Riyashi. 55:06.051 --> 55:14.856 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not really until the blood generation turn in 2005, which sets off one of the great periods of Japanese wrestling history for a single promotion. 55:15.436 --> 55:17.758 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not really until the blood generation turn that he's ever 55:18.738 --> 55:28.744 [SPEAKER_00]: He's ever taken seriously as a guy, and the ceiling then was, was the brave gate title, but he was Mr. Bravegate on, and we did an episode talking about the turn and his rise there. 55:28.884 --> 55:35.428 [SPEAKER_00]: The very fun episode, I really, that was, we released that January of last year, if you missed it, I really, really liked that one. 55:35.568 --> 55:37.770 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I would say, 55:39.420 --> 55:51.851 [SPEAKER_00]: over the last 20 years from that brave gate win to now, the one glaring smudge on that resume is that first open the dream gate ride. 55:51.971 --> 55:57.496 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is, you know, that is always the funny thing with Doys, the way that we analyze his career. 55:58.857 --> 56:18.646 [SPEAKER_00]: From what he lost about March of 2010, the way we analyze his career March of 2010 through November of 2019 Is dramatically different from the way we've analyzed his career ever since that second dreamgate rod We're 2020 granted weird year, but 2020. 56:18.687 --> 56:20.467 [SPEAKER_00]: I voted them flare-thes like that. 56:20.487 --> 56:21.708 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was there was impolite 56:21.948 --> 56:33.155 [SPEAKER_00]: possible to think of at the start of December of 2019 compared to where we're at in December of 2020, but he's now one of these guys that's just got this late career run. 56:33.875 --> 56:44.642 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think because of the you know the the way that wrestlers in the 80s and 90s traveled and the told they took on their body in the ring and out of the ring. 56:45.533 --> 56:48.937 [SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing a level of longevity with Dwight. 56:48.957 --> 56:50.539 [SPEAKER_00]: The same thing is true of LeBron. 56:50.559 --> 56:52.021 [SPEAKER_00]: The same thing is true of Aaron Rogers. 56:52.041 --> 56:53.543 [SPEAKER_00]: The same thing was true of Tom Brady. 56:54.004 --> 56:56.627 [SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing a level of longevity with a guy like this. 56:56.987 --> 56:59.150 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no historical comparison for it. 56:59.270 --> 57:00.932 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the first time 57:01.793 --> 57:17.913 [SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing somebody like the rookie doi, now 20 years into a pretty illustrious career where there are people that have watched him for years and years and that know what they're talking about that are saying this might be the best that doi's ever been and that to me is very interesting. 57:18.727 --> 57:19.207 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no. 57:19.227 --> 57:31.631 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that if you're talking about Doi 2019 on as an era, you're talking about probably the most transformative era to ones legacy that we've seen in the dragons. 57:32.091 --> 57:33.251 [SPEAKER_01]: I would completely agree with that. 57:33.791 --> 57:34.712 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think that 57:36.212 --> 57:55.837 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the things that we are, the two of us that we kind of find is, I think maybe I still have a little bit of a higher opinion of Yamato's, most recent runs and all of that, and that kind of colors where I feel about with Doi, because I can't put Doi above Yamato. 57:57.895 --> 58:00.256 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're just so many roles in Yamato's career. 58:00.276 --> 58:01.737 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're going through one now. 58:01.757 --> 58:05.338 [SPEAKER_00]: What if Doy wasn't working all these places that he's working, it would be true for Doi, too. 58:05.418 --> 58:07.159 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's it. 58:07.259 --> 58:09.160 [SPEAKER_00]: Yamato's got a dream gate run that I hate. 58:09.840 --> 58:11.441 [SPEAKER_00]: You got a bunch of stuff in the early 20s. 58:11.461 --> 58:15.522 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't care if a dream gate run that was worse than Yamato's. 58:17.383 --> 58:22.585 [SPEAKER_00]: He does, but Yamato's never been in the tag team without Doi that was as good as speed muscle. 58:23.223 --> 58:50.739 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is kind of where it comes down to is that after Doy you'd be saying cyber Kong for him as like his next top tag team and I I like a nice little team nice little team that's exactly kind of what I was going to say would probably say top 25 dragon system team, but I would not say even sniffs the conversation as a doyama or speed muscle or frankly like Nesca. 58:51.852 --> 59:06.075 [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, I mean, you're talking about is the totality of Yamato and Cybro Kong better than the very short compact run of Noruki Doy and Ricochet because that's partially blood warriors, partially world one in her ass. 59:06.115 --> 59:06.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 59:06.335 --> 59:09.215 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like, that's the level of competition that they're at. 59:10.035 --> 59:17.777 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, would you say that, but Ricochet would be his number three partner for Doy on that list, right? 59:19.400 --> 59:27.625 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, you know, you motto, I've had, you know, I mean, they did the cyber Kong stuff with Doi too. 59:27.645 --> 59:34.688 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, this dragon kid run of him and dragon kid together is pretty awesome. 59:34.849 --> 59:40.952 [SPEAKER_00]: They're, they're a high end match or two short, but it's pretty great. 59:43.095 --> 59:54.963 [SPEAKER_01]: yeah no uh it if only there was more emphasis on it but but uh speaking of uh uh not how we did get to see them in Kyoto do we want to run through our Kyoto thoughts real quick? 59:55.143 --> 01:00:01.027 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh quickly here because I think most of my thoughts can be tied into the core can show where the Kobe Hall show a Kobe Somal Hall show this weekend. 01:00:01.739 --> 01:00:15.862 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that this was the show from the 24th from Kyoto, headlined the Brave Gate semi-final match or, or I guess I called this the tournament final that the way the how complicated it was. 01:00:16.242 --> 01:00:30.686 [SPEAKER_01]: Gucci and Humari, semi-main event, Atomico, Natural Vives versus Gacha Dokebro doing Dream Gate build and then third from the top, really, it's not gonna consume a comora versus not how much I thought was a really good time. 01:00:32.006 --> 01:00:43.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was not really that much of a permanent kind of Kyoto show other than the Brave Gate semi-final setting up a Hamari versus Dragon Kid at Corkin on Thurza. 01:00:44.598 --> 01:00:50.843 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say this just some quick big picture thoughts on this show because I don't want to spend a ton of time with it. 01:00:51.003 --> 01:00:56.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Opening match, loving piece versus Enus, I thought was really, really fun. 01:00:57.429 --> 01:01:04.114 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, you know, it was an interesting match because the first quarter of it was just it, and I don't even mean this in a, in a, 01:01:04.935 --> 01:01:27.290 [SPEAKER_00]: Drogatory way, but it was just a lot of guys doing stuff, and it wasn't until they had a pretty prolonged heat section on Rita, where it felt like the match was able to ground itself, and they were able to find a tone and a pacing that really worked for this match, and then you got to see Yoshioka beating up Rita, you got to see Minora beating up Rita, and then you got to see 01:01:30.951 --> 01:01:32.692 [SPEAKER_00]: where he's been just great. 01:01:32.732 --> 01:01:33.773 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was really enjoyable. 01:01:33.873 --> 01:01:48.044 [SPEAKER_00]: So I really enjoyed that, you know, I think the zenest team as a whole, I write it in my notes every time they have a trio's match, I think the assisted moon salt, like a rabian presto that they're doing with C.L.O. 01:01:48.145 --> 01:01:49.085 [SPEAKER_00]: Where, yeah. 01:01:49.105 --> 01:01:54.690 [SPEAKER_00]: Yo, yo, come and know our kind of both hip toss them onto the top rope, and it does like a springboard moon salt back. 01:01:55.190 --> 01:01:55.751 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a great move. 01:01:55.771 --> 01:02:01.019 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never really seen anybody do that before and it seems so obvious, but I don't think anybody's taken it. 01:02:01.059 --> 01:02:05.006 [SPEAKER_00]: So as a trio, they are really working for me. 01:02:05.046 --> 01:02:06.128 [SPEAKER_00]: Where are you at with them? 01:02:07.271 --> 01:02:15.793 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's been a really nice thing to CCLO land with them and work in this kind of fashion. 01:02:15.833 --> 01:02:30.476 [SPEAKER_01]: I think CLO has provided a nice little bit of an edge for them and I've liked seeing the way that like the double hip toss, the way that they have started to merge together as a trio. 01:02:31.336 --> 01:02:38.217 [SPEAKER_01]: But my only concern about them, like they challenge for the triangle gate, they will be semi-main eventing the cork and haul show on Thursday. 01:02:38.277 --> 01:02:39.958 [SPEAKER_01]: First is love and peace for that title. 01:02:40.938 --> 01:02:48.579 [SPEAKER_01]: I do kind of feel like I don't love the idea of pitching whole pigeon-holing these three in the triangle gate division already. 01:02:49.099 --> 01:02:57.701 [SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense, because like I feel like we, we got to see so much good stuff with the Zena since when it was just Manora and Yoshioka, 01:03:00.401 --> 01:03:14.508 [SPEAKER_01]: Really, like in a lot of ways, they feel like the uncrowned twin-gate champions in that kind of way, and I know that adding in CLO means that now the triangle gates in play, I mean, we've seen how good the love and peace trio has been as champions. 01:03:14.548 --> 01:03:17.389 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really want to pull the belts away from them with it. 01:03:17.489 --> 01:03:20.651 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like the, I like the trio. 01:03:21.091 --> 01:03:27.354 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't necessarily love the idea that I am oriented to spending them beating a love and peace on Thursday. 01:03:27.930 --> 01:03:30.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I have been for most of this year. 01:03:30.712 --> 01:03:37.076 [SPEAKER_00]: I have been looking at 2026 Dragon Gate in comparison to 2018 Dragon Gate. 01:03:37.116 --> 01:03:47.403 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are so many similarities in one of those things is that this roster right now is very uneven. 01:03:47.743 --> 01:03:51.726 [SPEAKER_00]: When these cards get announced, I go, what are common? 01:03:51.746 --> 01:03:54.668 [SPEAKER_00]: Rita doing, I'm now at a point where I'm going. 01:03:55.328 --> 01:03:58.170 [SPEAKER_00]: are zenith in a trio's match if they are really want to see that. 01:03:58.731 --> 01:04:02.634 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, let me keep tabs on zenostal nova. 01:04:03.354 --> 01:04:16.965 [SPEAKER_00]: The rest of the card, whether it be kato, anyone in natural vibes, anyone in paradox, or really anybody outside of maybe Gucci, my eyes just sort of glaze over. 01:04:17.585 --> 01:04:18.226 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the 01:04:22.215 --> 01:04:30.507 [SPEAKER_00]: they've been telling some story with Ision and Kato as twin gate champions and how they keep on beating Yoshio Komenora. 01:04:31.268 --> 01:04:35.374 [SPEAKER_00]: I would think that ends up with Yoshio Komenora winning those twin gate belts. 01:04:37.217 --> 01:04:37.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 01:04:37.677 --> 01:04:52.365 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it becomes a little bit weird or if they're also triangle gate champions, but then I complain about not doing enough with comment and Rita, even though they are currently triangle gate champions, but they're so good that I wish they would do more with them. 01:04:52.685 --> 01:04:58.729 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the frustrating part of Tanaka right now is it's been a really awkward reset since he lost the brave gate belt. 01:04:58.769 --> 01:05:00.750 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like he never should have lost in the first place. 01:05:01.050 --> 01:05:01.190 [SPEAKER_00]: But 01:05:02.570 --> 01:05:15.454 [SPEAKER_00]: there's like six guys on the roster that are generating all of my interest and those guys are getting bunched in the spots were now, you know, they might be double champions by the end of next week. 01:05:15.534 --> 01:05:16.914 [SPEAKER_00]: They might not be champions at all. 01:05:16.994 --> 01:05:19.615 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very awkward the way that things are booked right now. 01:05:19.935 --> 01:05:20.835 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're exactly right. 01:05:21.095 --> 01:05:26.017 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm invested in the idea of Yoshioka and menorah becoming twin gate champions. 01:05:26.697 --> 01:05:29.458 [SPEAKER_00]: I also don't hate the idea of them becoming triangle champions. 01:05:29.558 --> 01:05:29.678 [SPEAKER_00]: It's 01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:34.441 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then you have the CLO Cotto of it all. 01:05:35.622 --> 01:05:38.023 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is a whole other can of worms. 01:05:38.463 --> 01:05:41.405 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, no, that's it's entirely a different thing. 01:05:41.465 --> 01:05:48.509 [SPEAKER_01]: And that might be something we talk about next week after Cotto and SMJ and Kobe, some of the whole. 01:05:48.989 --> 01:05:53.271 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'll table my thoughts on that for when we do this, this week in preview here. 01:05:53.351 --> 01:05:59.095 [SPEAKER_00]: Just real quick on the, on the brave gate, tournament semi-finals match. 01:06:02.105 --> 01:06:07.107 [SPEAKER_01]: They, uh, they're A, A, I aren't have called Hamari the tournament champion. 01:06:07.187 --> 01:06:07.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 01:06:07.487 --> 01:06:07.727 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 01:06:07.747 --> 01:06:09.347 [SPEAKER_01]: So turn it if I want to stupid tournament. 01:06:09.408 --> 01:06:14.489 [SPEAKER_00]: So Gucci and Hamari, I, I don't know if this will make sense to you. 01:06:14.889 --> 01:06:18.671 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought this was an awesome match for offense. 01:06:19.271 --> 01:06:23.352 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought both of you guys, this is, this is going to sound like real lackluster analysis. 01:06:23.612 --> 01:06:28.174 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought both of these guys did a bunch of cool moves in this match and I really liked that. 01:06:29.290 --> 01:06:31.293 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I had a good time with the match. 01:06:31.333 --> 01:06:35.820 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that it was kind of a new challenge for Hommari, you know what I mean? 01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:42.450 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this was a rare chance to see him work on top and definitely be positioned above a guy. 01:06:43.051 --> 01:06:43.852 [SPEAKER_00]: I really like that. 01:06:43.872 --> 01:06:44.974 [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't seen a lot of that. 01:06:45.828 --> 01:06:48.810 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I thought, how am I more or less succeeded in this? 01:06:48.890 --> 01:06:55.153 [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that Gucci, I mean, that this is going to be the kind of performances that we've seen before. 01:06:55.173 --> 01:06:59.876 [SPEAKER_01]: And now it's so crystal clear, this is going to be the bread and butter of his career, these kinds of matches like that. 01:07:00.716 --> 01:07:09.541 [SPEAKER_01]: And the only thing that kind of got me was that some of the super kicks look great and then going in the closing stretch, there was one real bad one super week finish. 01:07:09.641 --> 01:07:11.642 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was on board with that. 01:07:11.662 --> 01:07:13.003 [SPEAKER_00]: So this might be a low end. 01:07:13.963 --> 01:07:33.620 [SPEAKER_01]: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no 01:07:37.570 --> 01:07:39.251 [SPEAKER_01]: and the finish took down the match. 01:07:40.072 --> 01:07:40.812 [SPEAKER_00]: I completely agree. 01:07:40.852 --> 01:07:43.394 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I will say big picture. 01:07:43.854 --> 01:07:47.116 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a win in terms of performance for Gucci. 01:07:47.917 --> 01:07:51.119 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a win in terms of performance for Humarae. 01:07:51.919 --> 01:08:06.689 [SPEAKER_00]: But as we shift into Corrican Hall, boy would I not want to be Humarae and Dragon Kid headlining this show, yes, but having to follow that triangle gate match, I would not want to be them right now. 01:08:08.761 --> 01:08:09.542 [SPEAKER_01]: Neither would I. 01:08:09.602 --> 01:08:11.443 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about this quirk and show. 01:08:12.004 --> 01:08:12.664 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Thursday. 01:08:12.704 --> 01:08:29.418 [SPEAKER_01]: We will be recapping it on the episode next week along with the Kobe Samba Hall show as well running through the card opening match is Mochizuki Jr. Punch Tomanaga and Luis Monte versus Mochi Fuji and El 01:08:37.064 --> 01:08:40.129 [SPEAKER_01]: Kazuma Kamura, really it's not an ultima dragon. 01:08:41.150 --> 01:08:49.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Original Jimmy's versus Eshen and Rhea Fuda, Strommishing JKZ, UT, Gucci versus Gajadokuro in your drink gate. 01:08:49.121 --> 01:08:51.645 [SPEAKER_01]: Build match and then as you mentioned the two title matches. 01:08:52.005 --> 01:08:54.267 [SPEAKER_01]: the open the triangle gate championship. 01:08:54.587 --> 01:08:57.450 [SPEAKER_01]: Yo, Jackie, Kameh, and Rita, Defend again, Zina. 01:08:58.251 --> 01:09:00.553 [SPEAKER_01]: Yukio, Shio, Kakota, Menor, and LCLO. 01:09:00.933 --> 01:09:08.680 [SPEAKER_01]: And to decide the next open the brave gate champion, it is the interim champion, Dracking Kid versus Humarii in the main event. 01:09:10.479 --> 01:09:13.201 [SPEAKER_00]: this kind of goes to the point that I just made. 01:09:13.221 --> 01:09:21.888 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is a pretty dreadful undercard and then two matches at the top that I am really excited about. 01:09:22.129 --> 01:09:27.273 [SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, I don't care about the openers. 01:09:27.333 --> 01:09:29.895 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to see Kikui back, but that's not a meaningful match. 01:09:30.275 --> 01:09:31.657 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care about Giro. 01:09:32.137 --> 01:09:34.139 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care about Paradox right now. 01:09:34.639 --> 01:09:37.521 [SPEAKER_00]: The food a thing we can sort of tie in at the brave gauge stuff here, 01:09:39.943 --> 01:09:44.847 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you and I collectively are more intrigued by that than most people are. 01:09:44.887 --> 01:09:46.388 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that has been a total bomb. 01:09:46.848 --> 01:09:54.173 [SPEAKER_00]: Kato and Strong Machine J, I imagine we'll go to a non-finish and we'll go in the intermission where God willingly get a king of gate line up, but who knows? 01:09:54.913 --> 01:09:58.396 [SPEAKER_00]: And then all the guys that were into right now are in the last two matches. 01:09:58.576 --> 01:10:00.517 [SPEAKER_00]: And those two matches should be excellent. 01:10:00.837 --> 01:10:06.181 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to talk about them next week, but it's man, it is, that is a weak undercard. 01:10:07.504 --> 01:10:15.756 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at that show and I am really hoping we get a nails angle between Kotto and SMJ. 01:10:16.057 --> 01:10:22.106 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought I've liked what their matchups I've liked seeing them in the previous stuff, but 01:10:22.686 --> 01:10:43.934 [SPEAKER_01]: Really, it's the title match is on that show and and if anything is it's just kind of like, oh, this is the deal we have for us today that this is what you're deciding to deal up here you couldn't have Shaken things around just a little bit more to make things better, but I mean if you think about it like junior screwed on this card because there's no other member of love and be so he has to go to the opener. 01:10:44.954 --> 01:10:46.275 [SPEAKER_01]: Tanaka and Kamora 01:10:47.115 --> 01:10:56.699 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean you could run a comora in tenaka versus original jemis that would be a great undercard match like that would provide a little bit of spice, but no, they got it be on ultimo too. 01:10:56.719 --> 01:10:57.679 [SPEAKER_00]: But I love it. 01:10:57.699 --> 01:10:59.320 [SPEAKER_00]: Well Mike they could do. 01:11:01.298 --> 01:11:21.304 [SPEAKER_00]: they could do to knock and comor versus yama doye you could do a lot i was gonna say i was gonna say dragon kid but he is in the main of it you can't take him away from that but yeah i mean that this is what i mean this is what i mean it's a super concitor versus ision of food i'm sorry but who gives a shit you know i it'll be it the problem the the thing that i worry about here is 01:11:23.003 --> 01:11:28.728 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, opening match, rocket punch on Kukui, mark it down minus 900. 01:11:28.828 --> 01:11:30.910 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be a spot, I don't, I'm not saying it's the finish. 01:11:30.970 --> 01:11:31.831 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a spot they're gonna do. 01:11:32.411 --> 01:11:33.552 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care where the zero match. 01:11:34.253 --> 01:11:35.854 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimo is gonna ruin match number three. 01:11:36.334 --> 01:11:37.896 [SPEAKER_00]: Match number four could be a no finish. 01:11:38.156 --> 01:11:39.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Match number five could be a no finish. 01:11:39.837 --> 01:11:48.725 [SPEAKER_00]: And if it's at the very least, there's a zero percent chance that we get clean finishes in match four and match five back to back with the Asian food at Cognitive Horsesumau. 01:11:49.005 --> 01:11:50.887 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Gajadokoro national lives eight man. 01:11:51.407 --> 01:12:14.778 [SPEAKER_00]: Zero per thousand plus three thousand zero percent chance in twenty twenty six that both of those matches No low-blow no refinerference no box attack no powder no problem dragon came to the head No missed zero percent chance 01:12:15.593 --> 01:12:24.775 [SPEAKER_00]: that both of those matches are finishing move, pinfall one, two, three, it's not happening. 01:12:25.315 --> 01:12:28.475 [SPEAKER_00]: And to know it's not happening sucks. 01:12:28.695 --> 01:12:33.276 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm wrong, I'll apologize next week, but I'm not wrong. 01:12:35.257 --> 01:12:39.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Plus 3000, that's the odds for that, like that's just not going to happen. 01:12:39.917 --> 01:12:42.078 [SPEAKER_01]: Like one or the other is going to have a fuck finish. 01:12:42.098 --> 01:12:43.258 [SPEAKER_00]: And possibly both. 01:12:43.889 --> 01:12:44.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Possibly both now. 01:12:45.290 --> 01:12:52.655 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you on what I put plus 700 for both Oh, I say plus three a plus 700 for both them having it. 01:12:52.956 --> 01:12:54.637 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think plus 400 less. 01:12:55.077 --> 01:13:01.842 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's pretty likely Yeah, I I I wouldn't go that low, but it's something that I can't rule out 01:13:02.576 --> 01:13:13.105 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, but that is the card for Thursday's cork and haul show, the only match I've been searching to see if they've posted anything other than Kato and S.M.J. 01:13:13.225 --> 01:13:15.387 [SPEAKER_01]: for Kobe sample haul and I've not found a thing. 01:13:16.408 --> 01:13:18.410 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I have not seen the the sample haul show. 01:13:19.030 --> 01:13:20.572 [SPEAKER_00]: The card of that now. 01:13:22.323 --> 01:13:29.144 [SPEAKER_00]: Trianglegate match, it's kind of one of those and Kame has both earned this reputation and I also think it's completely unfair to him. 01:13:29.844 --> 01:13:32.705 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's not four and a half stars, it's a disappointment. 01:13:33.285 --> 01:13:36.786 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's crazy that they're doing this match, not in the main event. 01:13:38.006 --> 01:13:45.247 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's exciting that they're doing this match in Corquant, but not in the main event because it puts a lot of pressure on Dragon Kid and Humara. 01:13:46.727 --> 01:13:49.428 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the problem with the Trianglegate belts, though. 01:13:50.605 --> 01:13:52.993 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you care about the outcome ultimately? 01:13:53.134 --> 01:13:56.565 [SPEAKER_00]: Or do you care more about just making sure it's a really great match? 01:13:58.130 --> 01:14:12.873 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, why would hope you get both, but the reality of it is that I just think that the belt's being on love and peace is the right thing, just to make sure you have that good match out of it. 01:14:12.953 --> 01:14:22.834 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's just so many things going on that you should be doing with Zina that makes me think that you're going more for the good finish versus the right finish here. 01:14:26.715 --> 01:14:28.257 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the match is going to be great. 01:14:28.277 --> 01:14:30.238 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess it's going towards the match. 01:14:30.599 --> 01:14:40.027 [SPEAKER_00]: This is this is the point that I've been trying to make about Zeno Stald Nova and if they decide to pivot towards those guys being the triangle gate champions is 01:14:41.904 --> 01:14:51.790 [SPEAKER_00]: in theory, yes, to knock a leading his own unit being triangle gate champion, that should mean something, I just see no evidence that it does though. 01:14:51.950 --> 01:14:56.993 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think love and peace losing these belts changes their trajectory anyway. 01:14:57.113 --> 01:15:02.396 [SPEAKER_00]: I also don't think Yoshio Kaminoa and C. L.o winning these belts changes their trajectory in any way. 01:15:03.116 --> 01:15:06.099 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Yoshio Komenora winning the triangle are the twin gate belts. 01:15:06.820 --> 01:15:08.061 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that means something. 01:15:08.221 --> 01:15:10.123 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think these titles at this point in time. 01:15:10.644 --> 01:15:12.506 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they have become the default. 01:15:12.646 --> 01:15:15.008 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's have a great match title, which is great to see. 01:15:15.408 --> 01:15:19.853 [SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't really change the amount of t-shirts they're selling in the next month. 01:15:22.023 --> 01:15:33.590 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I mean, if we're talking about where the merch is being sold, the guy that has not been around over the last few weeks has been selling a whole lot of stuff Lepre's over in New York, and like, we're talking about merch to be done. 01:15:33.610 --> 01:15:37.313 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it all table, I want to have a conversation about that next week. 01:15:37.473 --> 01:15:40.395 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to have a conversation about heo and shoon. 01:15:42.285 --> 01:15:50.969 [SPEAKER_00]: And how I worry that perhaps their careers outside of Dragon Gate are incredibly detrimental to Dragon Gate. 01:15:51.089 --> 01:15:53.511 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the next week conversation. 01:15:53.551 --> 01:15:56.672 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see what he owed us here, because I actually think a few crushes it in this match. 01:15:56.712 --> 01:15:58.773 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll it'll further my point. 01:15:59.153 --> 01:16:01.014 [SPEAKER_00]: Mayn't have been here, Dragon Kid, Humare. 01:16:03.035 --> 01:16:07.978 [SPEAKER_00]: I have an outcome that I want, and I think it's the outcome that will happen. 01:16:08.898 --> 01:16:10.819 [SPEAKER_00]: Where do you stand with things right now? 01:16:12.892 --> 01:16:20.338 [SPEAKER_01]: For the sake of the exercise of this dumb tournament of the way that we've got here, I feel like Kamari has to win. 01:16:21.399 --> 01:16:30.506 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like Kamari has to win because how frickin stupid would it feel like if after all this dragon gets championing again, we just move along our way. 01:16:31.087 --> 01:16:34.469 [SPEAKER_01]: It just feels like why not just, I saw Jay posted this on Blue Sky. 01:16:34.750 --> 01:16:37.572 [SPEAKER_01]: At that point, make it a V1 and we act like this all never happened. 01:16:37.852 --> 01:16:39.333 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what they're going to do though. 01:16:39.413 --> 01:16:43.016 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I think but Jay had the perfect analysis for it. 01:16:43.476 --> 01:16:44.317 [SPEAKER_00]: Food abommed. 01:16:45.018 --> 01:16:45.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Pack died. 01:16:45.878 --> 01:16:47.500 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? 01:16:48.040 --> 01:16:51.142 [SPEAKER_00]: Dragon kid keeping the belt isn't the worst thing ever. 01:16:51.322 --> 01:16:54.645 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, it should have never left Tanaka. 01:16:55.486 --> 01:16:57.387 [SPEAKER_00]: We are now two months removed from that. 01:16:57.587 --> 01:16:59.229 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never been so sure. 01:16:59.929 --> 01:17:02.031 [SPEAKER_00]: The belt should have never left Tanaka. 01:17:02.351 --> 01:17:04.012 [SPEAKER_00]: She had more in that rain. 01:17:04.352 --> 01:17:06.014 [SPEAKER_00]: They got a magazine cover out of it. 01:17:06.354 --> 01:17:06.914 [SPEAKER_00]: I get it. 01:17:07.535 --> 01:17:08.996 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, who cares? 01:17:09.156 --> 01:17:12.519 [SPEAKER_00]: The company's in better shape long term of Tanaka still brave gate champion. 01:17:13.079 --> 01:17:15.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing in the last two months has swayed me from that opinion. 01:17:16.122 --> 01:17:17.423 [SPEAKER_00]: I only believe it more. 01:17:17.983 --> 01:17:19.004 [SPEAKER_00]: But food abombed. 01:17:19.884 --> 01:17:21.346 [SPEAKER_00]: We're in this spot now. 01:17:21.926 --> 01:17:23.407 [SPEAKER_00]: Real life things happened. 01:17:23.747 --> 01:17:24.288 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? 01:17:24.348 --> 01:17:25.008 [SPEAKER_00]: Dragon Kid. 01:17:25.509 --> 01:17:26.930 [SPEAKER_00]: Go have two or three more defenses. 01:17:29.281 --> 01:17:36.423 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I get that, but to me, it just makes it feel like I understand that real life comes in here. 01:17:36.603 --> 01:17:39.684 [SPEAKER_01]: And if it is legitimately like, yeah, I know we can't really do that there. 01:17:40.644 --> 01:17:55.849 [SPEAKER_01]: I understand that is notable, but having a Mara win, you kind of have this interesting story pop up that's not necessarily for the best Brazilian assault in Nova, but you have the idea that, okay, Tanaka couldn't beat Dragon Kid. 01:17:56.806 --> 01:18:21.896 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... uh... a mary can beat tenaka but mary can beat dragon kid i think that's an interesting triangle that you can play around with for a couple months i like i like that idea a lot i don't necessarily have faith in the current book and regime to do something that intricate no i have absolutely no faith for it because they're probably going to like bring in haroio matimoto to face uh... you know what you know will be great dragon kid versus zero have they thought about that 01:18:22.673 --> 01:18:28.059 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, at this point that we might be doing, well, we might be bringing in another heo if we do that. 01:18:28.680 --> 01:18:32.144 [SPEAKER_01]: If we do that, bring in the other heo to, let us have heo heo. 01:18:32.665 --> 01:18:40.694 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that will get heo to, you know, get get a little less high office as a boy, even though I think it's great that he's high on a supplier right now, a new Japan personally. 01:18:40.894 --> 01:18:50.146 [SPEAKER_01]: I do I am not I am not as into it and yeah, well we'll we'll have a long discussion about this next week But buddy is there anything else you wanted to touch on before we got out of the buffet. 01:18:50.166 --> 01:18:55.092 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel pretty stuff right well this is no this actually This is a very this is a very telling 01:18:57.248 --> 01:18:58.068 [SPEAKER_00]: a part of where Dr. 01:18:58.148 --> 01:19:02.090 [SPEAKER_00]: Engage stands at 2026 is we also have an open-the-dream gate match on Sunday. 01:19:02.110 --> 01:19:11.575 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we have an open-the-dream gate match on Sunday, Yoshiki Kato making his first defense, and the first defense ever in Kobe Samba Hall against Strong Machine J. 01:19:12.636 --> 01:19:14.777 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to feel flop right here. 01:19:14.917 --> 01:19:20.560 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're not going to go like first title match and congrats SMJ, but like we can put that thought off our mind, right? 01:19:20.940 --> 01:19:22.821 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't see how it's possible. 01:19:22.941 --> 01:19:23.841 [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to 01:19:27.645 --> 01:19:31.250 [SPEAKER_00]: about a colder, dream-gate challenger in history. 01:19:31.410 --> 01:19:33.373 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't think of one. 01:19:33.513 --> 01:19:38.921 [SPEAKER_00]: And to be clear, like you said, I liked what Kato and Strong Machine J did in Kyoto. 01:19:38.941 --> 01:19:40.262 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was a hot angle. 01:19:40.783 --> 01:19:42.465 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought J looked great at it. 01:19:43.509 --> 01:19:44.971 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're in November. 01:19:46.132 --> 01:19:50.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Strong Machine J has accomplished nothing this year. 01:19:50.637 --> 01:19:57.143 [SPEAKER_00]: He's been the least interesting guy in his unit for about a good year and a half. 01:19:57.284 --> 01:20:00.066 [SPEAKER_00]: A year and a half flimita included by the way. 01:20:00.667 --> 01:20:03.789 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, natural vibes, you know, we go through the EBS and flows. 01:20:03.829 --> 01:20:09.253 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the cycle that will never die of do we need to get rid of this unit or is this unit everything that's right about Dragon Gate. 01:20:09.653 --> 01:20:21.961 [SPEAKER_00]: Right now we're in a phase of the cycle of do we need to get rid of this unit because everyone feels colder than they did six months ago, but you can't, I mean, I think you can barely justify giving him a challenge. 01:20:21.981 --> 01:20:24.363 [SPEAKER_00]: You could have possibly justify putting the title on him. 01:20:26.060 --> 01:20:47.108 [SPEAKER_01]: no no no no like the the only way that you could even begin to entertain the argument is the first time kind of thing and that is at this point if you're doing that then why bother taking the belt off of kz in the first place you know have them well look like it's just real psychos is a fucking awful booker 01:20:47.508 --> 01:20:52.891 [SPEAKER_01]: like we have been dancing around this for years, we used to give him report cards. 01:20:52.911 --> 01:20:55.232 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been awful in 2026. 01:20:55.272 --> 01:21:02.116 [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that he's done with any consistency in care is booking a comedy act over the past year. 01:21:02.396 --> 01:21:07.418 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't dismiss out a hand that strong machine J is not going to win the dream gate. 01:21:07.478 --> 01:21:14.362 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's going to, but I think we have to embrace the fact that this company is run by part of my French a bunch of fucking idiots right now. 01:21:15.424 --> 01:21:22.830 [SPEAKER_00]: Corkin' Hall Friday, Kobe Sommel Hall Sunday, Big Triangle Gate Match, Brave Gate Match Friday, first ever open the Dream Gate Match and Kobe Sommel Hall on Sunday. 01:21:23.311 --> 01:21:31.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael have the written review for Corkin' Hall early next week, and we'll be back on a regular time to discuss all of this and more next Tuesday. 01:21:33.008 --> 01:21:34.889 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that will do it for us this week. 01:21:34.909 --> 01:21:39.530 [SPEAKER_01]: You could follow us on social media at Open Voice Gate, both on Twitter and on Blue Sky. 01:21:40.411 --> 01:21:45.613 [SPEAKER_01]: A case is that underscore in your case on Twitter, I'm at Fuji hay of two eyes like Don Fuji. 01:21:46.233 --> 01:21:48.434 [SPEAKER_01]: There's also the voices of wrestling discord. 01:21:48.474 --> 01:21:52.475 [SPEAKER_01]: The Draingate channel is usually popping, especially around live shows. 01:21:52.495 --> 01:21:58.778 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we've had that great discussion after those days with Tim Cook, as we mentioned earlier, talking about the, 01:21:59.938 --> 01:22:05.128 [SPEAKER_01]: the 121.97 match as well as matches that like Alan dropped in there. 01:22:05.268 --> 01:22:12.861 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a real fun channel there on the voices of wrestling discord, but we'll be back with you next week to talk about this big week and up ahead for a dragon gate. 01:22:12.961 --> 01:22:13.522 [SPEAKER_01]: Take care everyone.