WEBVTT 00:03.139 --> 00:07.807 [SPEAKER_01]: This show is brought to you by The Makeery, the podcast network for Makeers. 00:17.113 --> 00:17.613 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready? 00:18.234 --> 00:18.614 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 00:18.954 --> 00:21.336 [SPEAKER_01]: Guys, welcome to full blast podcast. 00:21.396 --> 00:23.958 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Jeff Fader, my buddy, Jesse's back. 00:23.998 --> 00:28.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Jesse Savage, unbelievable one of my dear friends. 00:28.701 --> 00:36.726 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking forward to talking to him catching up and we're also going to look into some of the things I've said of the podcast and I'll make some apologies. 00:37.146 --> 00:39.568 [SPEAKER_01]: But first things first, let me thank our sponsors. 00:40.108 --> 00:44.251 [SPEAKER_01]: Number one is our friends at Broadbeck Networks, makers of the two by 72 grinders. 00:44.271 --> 00:45.332 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an amazing grinder. 00:46.013 --> 00:48.496 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is going to work for you. 00:49.316 --> 00:55.664 [SPEAKER_01]: What you do is go to a broadbeckironworks.com, put in the promo code full blast, my mistake. 00:56.044 --> 00:58.828 [SPEAKER_01]: You put in the promo code knife, talk 10 and you get 10% off everything. 00:59.348 --> 01:02.972 [SPEAKER_01]: So go to broadbeckironworks and get yourself a grinder. 01:03.593 --> 01:16.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Even heat manufacturers, the finest heat treatment available to find your next oven go to evenheet-kill.com, just it's just changed my game, it's made my business that much better, and I'm in the tank for these guys. 01:16.683 --> 01:20.326 [SPEAKER_01]: Maritime knife supply, many thanks to Maritime knife, supply Lawrence Lake is amazing. 01:21.007 --> 01:25.851 [SPEAKER_01]: He has all this stuff for your knife making needs, belts, abrasors, steels, kilns for just press heat treatment, those all that stuff. 01:26.491 --> 01:27.551 [SPEAKER_01]: He's fantastic. 01:27.811 --> 01:28.752 [SPEAKER_01]: He is fantastic. 01:28.972 --> 01:31.132 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's a knife maker too, so he knows what you need. 01:31.812 --> 01:39.975 [SPEAKER_01]: If you get a 10 pack of abrasive belts, PS knife makers get the blaze 36 grit dows or my favorites via a mile. 01:39.995 --> 01:45.576 [SPEAKER_01]: So you get 10% off when you get a 10 pack of abrasive belts, many thanks to MaritimeDiveSupply.com, support. 01:46.116 --> 01:48.277 [SPEAKER_01]: Support guys who support the things that you do, you know? 01:48.937 --> 01:52.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Next, my friends at Bakerforge, Bakerforge.com, Bakerforge and tool on Instagram. 01:53.638 --> 02:03.841 [SPEAKER_01]: If you go to Bakerforge and get any of their exotic steels, copper, my bronze, my sand, all that stuff, you can put in the promo hood full blast and get 10% off everything. 02:04.481 --> 02:06.241 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely get involved with their gator piss. 02:06.441 --> 02:07.202 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great action. 02:07.302 --> 02:09.662 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually just used their grime repriester day. 02:09.742 --> 02:12.503 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm making some knives with a finish and I wanted to get the 02:13.163 --> 02:20.969 [SPEAKER_01]: Then we wanted to get the grease off and then use the grime reaper and it smells like oranges and then I'll feel like I'm one more chemical I'm not spraying on myself. 02:21.809 --> 02:24.631 [SPEAKER_01]: Many thanks to Baker Forging. 02:24.651 --> 02:27.874 [SPEAKER_01]: You can also get the gator piss and a lot of that stuff over Texas Ferry Supply. 02:28.654 --> 02:49.310 [SPEAKER_01]: If you go to TexasFerrySupply.com, for all you, or if you're a blacksmith, bladesmith, fairer, or however you identify, you can go to TexasFerrySupply, Philip your card, put it in the promo code knife, talk 10, and you get 10% of everything I get my Rhinoet from Evan and those guys, and once again, if you go too big or forge getting anything, you get on that website, put it in full blasting at 10% off. 02:49.770 --> 02:54.894 [SPEAKER_01]: All the details of all the discounts of self-added are on the website, wherever you're listening to this. 02:56.015 --> 03:02.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Many thanks to my friends at TotalBoat.com, they're the makers of adhesive paints, primers, polishing, and compounds, all that stuff. 03:02.502 --> 03:04.664 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be hanging out with the guys at TotalBoat. 03:06.125 --> 03:07.366 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing a two-day demo. 03:07.386 --> 03:14.113 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do a knife handle, how I do it, and then I'm actually going to show you how I make stabilized. 03:14.953 --> 03:17.715 [SPEAKER_01]: hybrid handle material so if you're making a camp go check it out. 03:17.815 --> 03:18.516 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be fun. 03:18.536 --> 03:34.206 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll I'll show you how I'm using their fathom two part epoxy I'm making a handle hybrid material and then I'll put it together for a nice set of handle scales go to Totalboats.com slash full blasting and you need a nice discount But many thanks to them UV cure resin. 03:34.646 --> 03:35.567 [SPEAKER_01]: They're two part of pot. 03:35.587 --> 03:39.509 [SPEAKER_01]: They're two part epoxy is amazing, but they're I love their CA glue. 03:39.729 --> 03:40.070 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it 03:41.050 --> 03:43.231 [SPEAKER_01]: Next to my friends at Giel Hansen and Suns says G.L. 03:43.411 --> 03:52.554 [SPEAKER_01]: dot underscore Hansen and Suns, they're the makers of G. Karta, which is a unique composite of natural fibers and fabrics mixed under epoxy mixed on mix with epoxy under pressure and heat. 03:54.294 --> 03:57.075 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely check out all the different types of scales they have. 03:57.155 --> 03:58.316 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the Feasant. 03:58.836 --> 04:03.197 [SPEAKER_01]: I also love the colorama and the trout patterns are really, really amazing. 04:03.257 --> 04:05.678 [SPEAKER_01]: So definitely go to G. Karta BigCartsL.com. 04:06.038 --> 04:07.739 [SPEAKER_01]: Put some razzle dazzle in your project. 04:08.859 --> 04:10.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Many thanks to my friends at tourmak. 04:10.400 --> 04:11.640 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna be hanging out with tourmak. 04:11.660 --> 04:19.744 [SPEAKER_01]: The tourmak guys are coming to shop and a couple of when this comes out The tourmak guys will have been here and they're gonna pick they sent a pile of stuff for them. 04:19.904 --> 04:27.467 [SPEAKER_01]: They're doing a maker camp tent And they sent a pile of stuff to me and they're gonna come to the shop And we're gonna pull around over maker camp. 04:27.487 --> 04:34.770 [SPEAKER_01]: They said they're gonna do a they're gonna do a some short film and they gave me a script and it's Slightly bonkers if I'm being honest 04:35.330 --> 04:38.112 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really looking forward to seeing those guys. 04:38.552 --> 04:45.096 [SPEAKER_01]: But I love the Tormic Machines, I have three of them, and they make me a better knife maker by far. 04:45.696 --> 04:48.738 [SPEAKER_01]: So good at Tormic Underscore Sharpie, InstagramTormic.com. 04:49.098 --> 04:58.584 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to really sharpen a knife in a very conservative way, excellent way, use a Tormic. 04:58.664 --> 04:59.885 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding. 05:00.385 --> 05:10.157 [SPEAKER_01]: Next to my friends at Nordic Edge, if you're not Australian, you want to learn of you all this stuff, but you don't want to know if you necessarily want to do it, you go to NordicEdge.com, if you're not Australia, if you're not Australia. 05:10.577 --> 05:19.427 [SPEAKER_01]: They not only have great knife-making supplies, like the file guides, their file guides are extraordinary, nothing better than their file guides. 05:20.188 --> 05:21.329 [SPEAKER_01]: They also teach classes. 05:21.529 --> 05:23.911 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're in Australia, you can go to their website. 05:23.931 --> 05:28.253 [SPEAKER_01]: They have a blacksmithing bladesmithing, spoon carving, leatherworking, all those classes. 05:28.794 --> 05:30.775 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can make a decision if this is for you. 05:31.395 --> 05:32.576 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can get your supplies from them. 05:32.616 --> 05:37.940 [SPEAKER_01]: So go to NordicEdge.com.au, Nordic underscore edge on Instagram, many thanks to them. 05:38.180 --> 05:40.722 [SPEAKER_01]: And many thanks my friends, the Phoenix abrasives, just got a package. 05:41.982 --> 05:43.643 [SPEAKER_01]: of scotch bright belts. 05:43.683 --> 05:48.464 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to finish a pile of steak, nice to make your camp, and I need those scotch bright belts. 05:48.484 --> 05:50.724 [SPEAKER_01]: So I got them at Phoenix abrasives. 05:50.984 --> 05:57.606 [SPEAKER_01]: They're the suppliers of superior brace products for every application, and I've making metal fabrication, glass fabrication for sanding and crankshaft. 05:58.166 --> 06:01.487 [SPEAKER_01]: Belts grinding, cutting-giss flap disc, surface conditioning belts, all that stuff. 06:02.207 --> 06:06.988 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I did was I put in the promo could FB10 that check out, and I got 10% off everything. 06:07.068 --> 06:09.209 [SPEAKER_01]: So many, many thanks to Phoenix abrasives. 06:10.249 --> 06:11.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I'm a little bit out of sorts. 06:12.270 --> 06:16.391 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a mild panic attack before we started recording and we're going to talk about that. 06:16.411 --> 06:25.354 [SPEAKER_01]: But in the meantime, my guess is one of my close friends, my brother and age, my friend, blacksmith extraordinary. 06:25.374 --> 06:26.995 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like it when I say that. 06:27.035 --> 06:27.595 [SPEAKER_00]: You're older than me. 06:28.015 --> 06:28.675 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a little bit. 06:29.035 --> 06:41.119 [SPEAKER_01]: Jesse Savage, Blacksmith, on Instagram, Jesse Savage is, in my opinion, one of the greatest, um, animal and forging historians in the United States. 06:41.380 --> 06:42.920 [SPEAKER_01]: Jesse Savage, how the hell are you? 06:43.240 --> 06:43.860 [SPEAKER_00]: Good, how are you? 06:44.661 --> 06:47.001 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a mild headache attack just now, be honest with you. 06:47.041 --> 06:48.342 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what was that about? 06:48.753 --> 06:55.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's funny because this is, when this comes out, it's the Maker Camps happening, right? 06:55.881 --> 06:57.343 [SPEAKER_01]: So we do Maker Camp every year. 06:57.823 --> 06:59.986 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we're the OGs of Maker Camp. 07:00.046 --> 07:05.312 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you and I and John and Cliff did that and Carrie did this event in Reigns. 07:05.852 --> 07:08.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's right, something like that. 07:08.675 --> 07:26.113 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we won eight gold ribbons at Maker Fair, and then Jimmy Dressos is, first time we were met Jimmy Dressos, and then he had this idea that he sprung on that the Blacks Thorn in Austin, the guy's a great family, and then they kind of started creating it. 07:26.133 --> 07:26.193 [SPEAKER_01]: And 07:26.953 --> 07:37.118 [SPEAKER_01]: So every year, we're in a group chat, you and I and Cliff and John, and Cliff's kind of the ringleader of the modern forge that's our little team. 07:37.758 --> 07:44.181 [SPEAKER_01]: And every so often, I don't know when the, I don't know when the, the, the, the, the Cliff starts churping. 07:44.721 --> 07:55.886 [SPEAKER_01]: He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, 07:56.586 --> 07:56.946 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 07:57.927 --> 07:58.627 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't figure it out. 07:58.787 --> 08:00.548 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just started making butterfly knives. 08:01.248 --> 08:01.789 [SPEAKER_01]: They're fun. 08:01.809 --> 08:03.609 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I love it. 08:03.629 --> 08:08.252 [SPEAKER_01]: I love for any kind of knife where you don't have to do any wait for glue to dry. 08:09.032 --> 08:10.313 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the best. 08:10.793 --> 08:15.475 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's nothing better than not having you know forging is the best, right? 08:15.775 --> 08:16.536 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, absolutely. 08:17.416 --> 08:24.760 [SPEAKER_01]: So I figured out this Ben Snow told me East is, you know, you should make a friction, you should make a friction folder version of a butterfly knife. 08:24.780 --> 08:27.082 [SPEAKER_01]: So I made a couple and it was like, it went berserk. 08:27.522 --> 08:30.984 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I did it on Instagram and it was like, my DMs are flooded. 08:31.004 --> 08:33.645 [SPEAKER_01]: All these nerds that were like, my butterfly knife. 08:33.825 --> 08:34.486 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want a butterfly. 08:35.446 --> 08:37.347 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was just like, aye, I don't know. 08:37.407 --> 08:40.749 [SPEAKER_01]: Cliffs just like, yeah, I think Austin wants to let extra razzle dazzles. 08:40.769 --> 08:42.190 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're trying to think, well, I should do it. 08:42.210 --> 08:42.830 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I fuck it. 08:42.850 --> 08:43.210 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do it. 08:43.711 --> 08:45.531 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to lift anything big. 08:45.551 --> 08:46.632 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not heavy forging. 08:46.652 --> 08:49.173 [SPEAKER_01]: It's relatively, there's a lot of bang for your buck. 08:49.313 --> 08:52.475 [SPEAKER_01]: Any type of friction folders or small things. 08:52.535 --> 08:54.636 [SPEAKER_01]: It's always like, it's not too rough on your body. 08:54.716 --> 08:56.577 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you know, that's sweat and your brains out. 08:56.637 --> 08:58.338 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that tough. 08:58.358 --> 09:00.019 [SPEAKER_01]: When we go out, I make a butterflat. 09:00.797 --> 09:02.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what's the handle again? 09:02.378 --> 09:03.359 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it like England? 09:04.200 --> 09:07.382 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the it's the same process is making the friction folder. 09:07.402 --> 09:20.312 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you have to you have to the whole thing is you just have to when you forge out the the the blade the blade is like I mean it's you could do with the scrap of material is like nothing there, you know, it's just a tag either really. 09:21.073 --> 09:31.179 [SPEAKER_01]: But you have to, you have to forge that little, I guess, that little diamond, the amount of the knife comes, forges out of the diamond. 09:31.959 --> 09:35.761 [SPEAKER_01]: And you have to make sure that your handles close and open. 09:36.522 --> 09:42.225 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to center your handles so that when they're in the closed position, they can completely encapsulate the knife. 09:42.785 --> 09:45.687 [SPEAKER_01]: But then when they're in the open position, the backs touch, too. 09:46.127 --> 09:48.929 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so how do you make it so the blade stays straight and it doesn't look? 09:49.429 --> 10:13.465 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a, dude, that's an awesome question, so because if you are just to do the, you forge the blade and then you pop two holes on either side and you get, just you have the, if you have the, um, the handles at the right size, uh, the thickness of the size, it's going to still flop, like if you're going to, you'll be able to, you'll be able to move it around, like if you could, it's, you have to have two, you have to have four holes. 10:14.145 --> 10:22.611 [SPEAKER_01]: two holes on the sides to rivet in the handle and then a hole in the top and holding the bottom to kind of lock in the handles. 10:23.012 --> 10:40.005 [SPEAKER_01]: And you end up drilling a hole in the handle so when it's in the open position where the knife is open it's actually locking into that bottom pin and then when it's in the closed position it's locking into the top pin. 10:40.365 --> 10:41.486 [SPEAKER_01]: So what happens is it prevents 10:43.207 --> 10:51.974 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, the thing is, I remember getting my first butterfly life when I was a kid in New York City in high school. 10:52.275 --> 10:52.995 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 10:53.536 --> 10:55.757 [SPEAKER_01]: They're the flimzius fucking things you've ever seen. 10:55.837 --> 10:57.879 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're literally like, there's nothing there. 10:58.360 --> 11:00.621 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I've seen them over the years and they're just like, 11:01.442 --> 11:03.043 [SPEAKER_01]: There's it's not a whole lot to do. 11:03.283 --> 11:08.084 [SPEAKER_01]: The hardest part is actually is figuring out how much handled to make. 11:08.104 --> 11:11.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you have to you do the angle iron like you would a friction folder. 11:12.826 --> 11:14.506 [SPEAKER_01]: But then you got to you got to cut it down. 11:15.046 --> 11:17.027 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to like a cut a pile of it out. 11:17.547 --> 11:23.389 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you also have to figure out where your holes are going to be in the handle because you need to make sure 11:27.570 --> 11:33.972 [SPEAKER_01]: the angle part too, like that's the, not the legs, but the, what would you call that part of the angle? 11:34.572 --> 11:40.734 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you get the legs, which is the out-subsides of the angle, and then you have the apex, you know what I mean? 11:40.974 --> 11:41.234 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 11:41.474 --> 11:45.915 [SPEAKER_01]: You get a trim that down, and you have to, it's like a trim, you have to trim it all down, so it all fits in. 11:46.255 --> 11:50.896 [SPEAKER_01]: But you have to make sure your diamond is wide enough, so it can support the pins. 11:51.096 --> 11:53.717 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's not hard, just you have to figure it out. 11:54.750 --> 12:00.211 [SPEAKER_00]: I seem complicated, but do you have the little, like, I remember as a kid, like the one I had had, like a little T at the end. 12:00.251 --> 12:03.672 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was the connecting part of the two and bottom of the two handles. 12:04.132 --> 12:11.874 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't figured out that yet, but it's funny that you mentioned that because the T, there's a T that will lock it into place. 12:12.054 --> 12:12.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 12:12.554 --> 12:20.376 [SPEAKER_01]: In an open positional in the closed position, and that might be the loophole to what saves me from the panic attack. 12:20.396 --> 12:22.377 [SPEAKER_01]: So to finish the story, 12:23.137 --> 12:27.557 [SPEAKER_01]: The finished story, all of a sudden, I started getting mess, I got messages from law enforcement. 12:28.345 --> 12:30.005 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going to start doing Instagram. 12:30.025 --> 12:31.366 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you gotta be careful. 12:31.506 --> 12:34.967 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is, you know, I don't know if this is legal and where you live and all that. 12:35.027 --> 12:37.847 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had to do some like, I thought, I'm thinking about it. 12:37.987 --> 12:40.528 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when I said to Cliff, when I wrote in Cliff, what are you going to do? 12:40.548 --> 12:41.728 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I don't know, I'll make butterflies. 12:42.388 --> 12:44.989 [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't realize that they were going to kind of, I didn't really think about it. 12:45.009 --> 12:50.350 [SPEAKER_01]: I was talking, you know, last this past week, I was like, I'm going to be able to make a bow in a night for maybe I'll just forge some knives I need for the shop or whatever. 12:50.651 --> 12:50.871 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 12:51.651 --> 12:54.071 [SPEAKER_01]: And all of a sudden, it just dawned on me. 12:54.291 --> 12:56.232 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I making something that might be illegal? 12:56.812 --> 13:08.075 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what that happened to me kind of that make or camp the last couple years when I've done the slingshots is like Alan there looking at his plaques and I told me that they're illegal in Massachusetts. 13:08.215 --> 13:09.376 [SPEAKER_01]: They're illegal or illegal. 13:09.636 --> 13:10.736 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they're illegal. 13:11.576 --> 13:13.737 [SPEAKER_00]: And not to choose slingshots. 13:14.637 --> 13:15.037 [SPEAKER_01]: Jesus. 13:15.418 --> 13:23.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I did check the laws in the art before I decided to go do them because you know, but who would know a slingshot? 13:24.029 --> 13:26.911 [SPEAKER_01]: And in my life, well, I mean, we're not Massachusetts. 13:26.931 --> 13:27.372 [SPEAKER_01]: So lucky. 13:27.772 --> 13:28.032 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 13:28.332 --> 13:29.233 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I know. 13:29.273 --> 13:29.753 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank God. 13:31.455 --> 13:32.335 [SPEAKER_01]: Lucky, lucky day. 13:32.355 --> 13:33.516 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just get a chill dog. 13:33.696 --> 13:34.017 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 13:34.177 --> 13:35.518 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so yeah. 13:35.558 --> 13:42.022 [SPEAKER_01]: So all of a sudden, I'm just like, you know, and it's on the sheets, it's on the cards, it's, you know, 13:43.123 --> 13:51.908 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, whatever the whatever cliff wrote they I've listened to a podcast is off it and somebody's podcast was talking about what's going to happen is going to fade or it's going to make butterfly noise. 13:51.988 --> 13:54.889 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like all of a sudden I'm just like wait a second. 13:55.409 --> 14:05.254 [SPEAKER_01]: Have I not looked at the all the legalities of this whole thing so I had to do it like bright so I'm getting in to the shop to you sent me a message saying I'm ready to 14:12.478 --> 14:13.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there going to be like it? 14:13.559 --> 14:16.581 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I going to be, can I be arrested for this? 14:16.601 --> 14:23.486 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, fine, because I talked to Morocco about it and he's like, he was just like, you know, you got to be careful. 14:23.867 --> 14:24.587 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 14:24.687 --> 14:30.732 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, you just like, well, you maybe you could just make the parts and then just be, you know, be vague about the whole thing. 14:31.272 --> 14:36.116 [SPEAKER_01]: But it looked up the laws and the laws says in New York, it's not illegal to have it. 14:36.156 --> 14:38.478 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're in Manhattan with one, just forget it. 14:40.519 --> 15:00.033 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a gravity knife has to lock when it's open, and if it locks when it's open, that's the kind of the technicality, however, if a cop wants to be a dick, he can give it to you, he can give it to you, and then that's for the judge to judge decision. 15:00.053 --> 15:01.974 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm going to be very like... 15:02.815 --> 15:13.091 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'll be okay, but if I don't have a locking mechanism, and I think that if I can be kind of, you know, fuzzy about it, I don't know necessarily think I'm going to have a problem, but it gave me a slight fright. 15:14.369 --> 15:15.770 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm looking up the laws right now. 15:15.790 --> 15:17.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Fifty-two years. 15:17.111 --> 15:19.813 [SPEAKER_01]: So, can you imagine, 52 years old never got an intro one. 15:20.493 --> 15:25.317 [SPEAKER_01]: You can only trouble I've ever gotten to the laws when I was in college, I got a trespassing fine for fishing. 15:25.417 --> 15:25.777 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. 15:26.238 --> 15:32.242 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine, 52 years old, a upstanding citizen arrested for possession of a fucking butterfly knife? 15:32.442 --> 15:33.643 [SPEAKER_01]: It's getting a good fuck that. 15:33.863 --> 15:35.565 [SPEAKER_00]: You probably couldn't have made one in Queens. 15:36.865 --> 15:40.747 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's New York's New York state like in the Catskills. 15:41.367 --> 15:43.588 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it matters but I think in this city it might. 15:43.788 --> 15:46.289 [SPEAKER_01]: In the city for sure, for the city, I'll forget it. 15:46.309 --> 15:54.372 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the city, if you have like any knife that's not like a Swiss army knife or a leatherman, 15:55.172 --> 16:08.644 [SPEAKER_01]: They, I have cop friends on the force and that one guy once said to me, I can't wait to catch someone with one of your knives on him, I can't wait and say I don't know, I can't wait, and they refer to, and in the city, they refer to knives as job security because it's like an easy collar. 16:08.924 --> 16:09.225 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 16:09.345 --> 16:12.788 [SPEAKER_00]: What if you're a chef that carries around like their own personal, like set? 16:13.248 --> 16:18.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that they're looking for those nives that you clip on the inside of your pot. 16:18.612 --> 16:20.653 [SPEAKER_01]: You see the clip on your pocket. 16:21.213 --> 16:25.716 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're not, if you're a brand-touching a chef, no, I've no one's going to give a shit. 16:25.816 --> 16:34.362 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, I think if you have a pocket knife where the clip is easy to see, I think that's one of the things that they like in the, in the, in the subways. 16:34.402 --> 16:37.224 [SPEAKER_01]: If they, they'll see if it's a leatherman, I think you'll be okay. 16:37.264 --> 16:38.465 [SPEAKER_01]: But they might give you some fritz. 16:39.145 --> 16:55.257 [SPEAKER_01]: But if they see it and it's like, if you can open and the other thing, I'm under the impression with it and maybe not for the police in general, but like the cops that I've talked to is if they if you if you can open it with one hand, you if you can open it with one hand, that's good enough for the rest. 16:55.635 --> 16:55.975 [SPEAKER_00]: really. 16:56.015 --> 17:00.757 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, like those assisted like, oh, yeah, forget it. 17:00.917 --> 17:06.618 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like, you know, if you could, if it's an assist, you know, I've been buying a pile of them just for R&D and something like that. 17:06.699 --> 17:06.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 17:07.019 --> 17:20.863 [SPEAKER_01]: I might have, I may or may not have picked up a few switch blades that, you know, with one thousand percent, if I want to go to, you know, I'm, you know, that's probably that, you know, the funny thing is like switch blades are illegal in Vermont, like the new 17:24.907 --> 17:30.873 [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking at him and I was like, well, I can't order it to Vermont, like, on Amazon, but I could send it to like the Hampshire and pick it up. 17:31.654 --> 17:36.699 [SPEAKER_01]: That means it's legal, but... You know, I've been buying a lot of knives from Kirshah. 17:36.719 --> 17:38.981 [SPEAKER_01]: This is just a friendly little tip for it. 17:39.081 --> 17:39.602 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 17:39.622 --> 17:41.724 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a company called EDC Gearhouse. 17:41.984 --> 17:42.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 17:42.825 --> 17:43.926 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, EDC Gearhouse? 17:43.946 --> 17:45.047 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems familiar. 17:45.393 --> 17:50.455 [SPEAKER_01]: Ben is he he's a knife-tock listener and he's got this shop in Michigan. 17:51.176 --> 17:57.078 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a great shop and one of the things he has is he always sells pre-owned knives like use knives. 17:58.139 --> 18:07.583 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm looking for ideas or inspiration or something or how thin something works, I'm always on his like pre-owned knives page, I 18:08.243 --> 18:11.666 [SPEAKER_01]: I buy so many goddamn pre-O knives for nothing. 18:11.986 --> 18:12.666 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's nice. 18:13.127 --> 18:23.395 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's great, and he's a good dude, and it's like, I do, but I do like those Kursha knives, because some of them are made in the United States, and some of them aren't, and they're very clear which ones are, and which ones are. 18:23.495 --> 18:23.815 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 18:24.035 --> 18:24.976 [SPEAKER_00]: They are nice knives. 18:26.023 --> 18:26.704 [SPEAKER_01]: for the price. 18:27.405 --> 18:30.848 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to be, but these pre-owned knives are like, they're like, they're like, brand new to me. 18:31.208 --> 18:31.408 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 18:31.749 --> 18:32.729 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's nothing in there. 18:32.769 --> 18:34.471 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking just to kick them around a little bit. 18:34.491 --> 18:37.514 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not looking to, you know, you know, flip them or anything like that. 18:37.574 --> 18:45.801 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's the funny thing is, I go, I've gone through these stages as a knife maker. 18:45.881 --> 18:48.544 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, when I was started with the Center for Mental Arts back in the day, 18:49.693 --> 18:51.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was fine architectural metal summons. 18:52.054 --> 18:53.715 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't give a shit about knives. 18:53.775 --> 18:55.335 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't give a shit about knife makers. 18:55.455 --> 18:56.516 [SPEAKER_01]: We thought they were dorks. 18:57.016 --> 18:59.177 [SPEAKER_01]: We had no interest at all. 18:59.217 --> 19:00.638 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't know anything about the masses. 19:00.658 --> 19:02.118 [SPEAKER_01]: We were making railings. 19:02.178 --> 19:07.421 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and then everyone still while a teacher would come in, we would learn some forging tricks and stuff like that. 19:07.861 --> 19:10.742 [SPEAKER_01]: For me, it was all learning at a power hammer, learning at a forge. 19:10.842 --> 19:12.743 [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't care less about knives. 19:13.203 --> 19:13.403 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 19:13.723 --> 19:17.484 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so hilarious coming into being a knife maker now. 19:18.024 --> 19:25.007 [SPEAKER_01]: And I still kind of don't give a shit about knives, but it's funny seeing how people are, especially other knife makers are. 19:25.087 --> 19:27.487 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have the, I don't have the lust. 19:27.927 --> 19:28.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 19:30.484 --> 19:31.504 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how have you been? 19:31.805 --> 19:32.065 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 19:32.085 --> 19:33.205 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been good. 19:33.405 --> 19:35.606 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a brace and for Maker Camp. 19:35.806 --> 19:38.007 [SPEAKER_00]: Cliff gave me instructions. 19:38.047 --> 19:39.108 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of been my day. 19:39.168 --> 19:42.409 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that he wants me to have a progression board. 19:43.270 --> 19:46.931 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was going to do people probably don't know. 19:47.011 --> 19:50.833 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to forge like Russian roses out of like just one piece of steel. 19:52.253 --> 19:57.916 [SPEAKER_00]: So can you explain the difference between a Russian rose and like the one we tried to make? 19:58.896 --> 20:00.117 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was my bad. 20:00.217 --> 20:09.022 [SPEAKER_01]: I really kind of blew the blue that one up, but there's there's there's the rose where you forge it down and then you kind of chisel in the pedals. 20:09.502 --> 20:09.743 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 20:09.783 --> 20:11.764 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you smash everything down and then you fold it. 20:11.904 --> 20:12.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 20:12.344 --> 20:13.385 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, square block and steel. 20:15.898 --> 20:35.645 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you explain what a Russian russian russian russian roses like well, I've been messing around with starting stock So I'm using like 5-8s by a quarter inch flat and you basically follow in like every one inch and then forge out You know just like four-jaddle little pedal in between 20:36.205 --> 20:39.088 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a long bar and there's like notches. 20:39.248 --> 20:55.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's like, you do like seven or eight pedals and then you forge out the rest of the steel into a stem and then you just bend it over and like wrap it up into a circle and then you can you know get artsy with it by bending the pedals out or put in texture and or whatever. 20:56.024 --> 21:10.804 [SPEAKER_01]: So are you when you're when you're rolling it all up or you're rolling it if you're rolling it from you're you're making a 90 degree bend right Exam you're 90 degree bend from the stem to the start of the pedals and then you sort of kind of like roll it up like a lally pop almost right exactly I mean it 21:11.945 --> 21:15.487 [SPEAKER_00]: When you see it made, it doesn't make sense, and then you're like, oh yeah, I get it now. 21:15.527 --> 21:15.987 [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing. 21:16.007 --> 21:17.268 [SPEAKER_00]: It looks like a rose, but it does. 21:17.688 --> 21:20.409 [SPEAKER_01]: I never saw, I never heard of a Russian rose before. 21:20.509 --> 21:24.011 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like doing the Fred Chris style rose. 21:24.231 --> 21:26.833 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's not his rose, but I mean, I learned it from him. 21:26.853 --> 21:27.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 21:27.113 --> 21:30.795 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think Samuel Yellin was doing that style of rose. 21:30.855 --> 21:37.398 [SPEAKER_01]: He was, you know, Fred was one of the, you know, Fred, was one of the Samuel Yellin caretakers towards the end. 21:38.158 --> 21:40.160 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've never seen a Russian Rosa for it. 21:40.180 --> 21:48.867 [SPEAKER_01]: It was really cool seeing you do it, which is just like, whoa, I Never even heard of of doing a Rosa, but I said, I thought to myself, God, man, that makes so much more sense. 21:48.967 --> 21:51.569 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so much less work and it's so much less work. 21:51.629 --> 21:53.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the fabricated ones are really nice people do. 21:53.971 --> 21:54.812 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, it's like 21:55.352 --> 21:59.475 [SPEAKER_00]: every welding instructor teaches those, but with the plasbacut. 21:59.675 --> 22:02.096 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just stars in the world, exactly. 22:02.217 --> 22:04.818 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is cool, because it's just one bar of steel. 22:05.319 --> 22:07.840 [SPEAKER_00]: It's essentially like everything I love about blacksmithing. 22:08.000 --> 22:08.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know. 22:09.381 --> 22:16.165 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, because also you don't really, for the most of the part, a lot of, you don't need tongs to, you know, until the end, really. 22:16.225 --> 22:16.466 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 22:16.666 --> 22:16.906 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:17.286 --> 22:23.390 [SPEAKER_01]: That's, can we just talk about the fact that we don't necessarily need tongs, how much fun forging can be? 22:23.590 --> 22:25.210 [SPEAKER_00]: I know because you have so much more control. 22:25.230 --> 22:26.251 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a more control. 22:26.591 --> 22:26.811 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:27.131 --> 22:29.011 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you're, you know, you're not floating around too much. 22:29.251 --> 22:42.154 [SPEAKER_01]: I love, you know, when you, I love when we were forging tickets back in the day and you just have these bars and they're sticking out and you got a dead man holding up this, the end of the thing and then you just pull the whole steel out, make sure it's not hot and then you go to the power hammer. 22:43.134 --> 22:47.195 [SPEAKER_01]: Not using tongs is, for me, it might be more fun. 22:47.235 --> 22:50.576 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel, maybe it's, maybe you feel a little bit closer to this steel. 22:50.596 --> 22:51.076 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure. 22:52.231 --> 23:00.703 [SPEAKER_00]: right yeah i mean it's definitely more intimate you know it's gonna be so great seeing you guys yeah i'll be fun to hang out i'm looking for it to 23:01.661 --> 23:02.622 [SPEAKER_01]: We always have a good time. 23:02.722 --> 23:05.864 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's something's a push to get away, but so was CMA too. 23:05.904 --> 23:07.746 [SPEAKER_00]: We did that last week and my daughter got. 23:08.086 --> 23:08.566 [SPEAKER_00]: It was good. 23:09.047 --> 23:19.354 [SPEAKER_00]: My daughter's out there living in Pittsburgh, so she and her boyfriend's family took us to tour the steel mill there that carried for us. 23:19.755 --> 23:20.715 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, how was it? 23:20.876 --> 23:21.476 [SPEAKER_00]: It was awesome. 23:21.716 --> 23:22.617 [SPEAKER_00]: It was really cool. 23:23.357 --> 23:26.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing, you see how they made steel back in the day. 23:27.420 --> 23:29.262 [SPEAKER_01]: How far is Pittsburgh from CMA? 23:29.962 --> 23:31.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it's like 70 miles. 23:31.724 --> 23:32.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's not bad. 23:32.804 --> 23:33.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Hour and 15. 23:33.325 --> 23:35.506 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I see. 23:35.546 --> 23:36.047 [SPEAKER_00]: It's close. 23:36.827 --> 23:39.890 [SPEAKER_01]: You, you had a good talk, and you taught over at CMA. 23:39.990 --> 23:46.194 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we taught the, um, kind of class we've been doing every year, um, the fire poker class, which was cool. 23:46.895 --> 23:50.617 [SPEAKER_00]: One, we, uh, only had four students, so it was just really nice. 23:51.278 --> 23:51.758 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow. 23:52.018 --> 23:53.620 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was perfect, you know. 23:53.660 --> 23:57.242 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good size and, uh, Rick was going to come up, but he couldn't make it. 23:58.563 --> 24:03.108 [SPEAKER_00]: If you get eight students making firepokers, then everybody's bending things in a different direction. 24:03.148 --> 24:06.131 [SPEAKER_00]: So you definitely need like, you know, three people help. 24:06.351 --> 24:08.694 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're, yeah, you can stay on top of people. 24:09.394 --> 24:11.937 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I correct any crazy, you know. 24:12.177 --> 24:14.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you got to be on, you for teaching forging. 24:14.340 --> 24:18.804 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to be like, you can't be, you can't be laxedasical. 24:19.005 --> 24:20.186 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to be on top, everything. 24:20.486 --> 24:25.610 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, it's amazing how like people can just get like out of whack and I'm like how did you even do that? 24:26.051 --> 24:41.984 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, you know, when you're teaching the friction folder class, by lunchtime, everything has got to be right because that's like so like a quarter of the class, like the first quarter of making the class, you got to get everybody squared away otherwise the rest of it's ruined. 24:42.304 --> 24:46.228 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he treating and this and that is the thing so it's like I'm like, 24:46.768 --> 24:49.789 [SPEAKER_01]: crazy person the first quarter of the of the two-day class. 24:49.869 --> 24:57.852 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, you ain't, I can't let anybody slip to the cracks because otherwise, you know, it's three quarters of the, you know, probably ruined. 24:58.133 --> 25:00.714 [SPEAKER_00]: So do they make like more than one in that class or is it? 25:01.994 --> 25:05.657 [SPEAKER_01]: Steve Peligrino, RIP, tried to make two. 25:06.378 --> 25:09.921 [SPEAKER_01]: And unless you, you know, that's the thing about forging in general. 25:10.461 --> 25:18.168 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, unless you really know what you're doing and you practice a lot, it's super duper hard to double up. 25:18.208 --> 25:25.354 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've tried doing doubling up with, you know, I remember taking classes and thought at all, if they can do one, I can do two. 25:25.494 --> 25:29.438 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's always, unless you really, really like, ahead of the curve. 25:30.098 --> 25:33.920 [SPEAKER_01]: It's super hard to do, and I usually tell people, especially people who really want to do it. 25:33.940 --> 25:39.943 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that they have time, spend time doing it one good one, as opposed to two mediocre ones. 25:40.563 --> 25:40.783 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 25:41.264 --> 25:47.107 [SPEAKER_01]: But so you listen, I asked you to listen to the Pat Quinn episode last week. 25:47.127 --> 25:53.830 [SPEAKER_01]: I got a lot of really great feedback on the restoration of the 2000 pound chambersburg. 25:53.850 --> 25:58.012 [SPEAKER_01]: What did you think of the episode and what did you think of when you were down there seeing the rest 26:00.414 --> 26:01.576 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, it was a really cool. 26:01.756 --> 26:04.259 [SPEAKER_00]: It was cool to hear Pat's description of it. 26:04.399 --> 26:16.953 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of heard this short version there, but the one thing you must need to get a picture of it, one of his students made like a model of the foundation, which is like, it's pretty incredible. 26:18.354 --> 26:20.216 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't know how they did that. 26:21.687 --> 26:42.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude, when he, when I reached out to, you know, I love having Pat on and talking about, you know, the CMA and I've done such a huge, I'm a such a huge fan of what he does and I think that what he's doing now is so incredibly important and it's like, you also, when you see the work that they're doing, especially that last sculpture. 26:43.603 --> 26:46.445 [SPEAKER_01]: It's nobody else is doing this, you know. 26:46.705 --> 27:00.873 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, though, like, sculpture like that doesn't really, is, is, is, is, I don't know even on the planet earth how many people can make sculpture like that, you know, right, with the forging equipment that they're forging with, they're using. 27:01.205 --> 27:14.172 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, with casting is different situation, but like there's something about what he's doing that is I don't I don't can't think of them a lot of people who are doing it, you know. 27:14.232 --> 27:23.398 [SPEAKER_00]: No, who's that like the the famous sculptor that does like the big forgings in like the like GE warehouses with their hydraulic presses, I can't think of his name. 27:24.526 --> 27:27.728 [SPEAKER_01]: You're some are you talking about Richard Sarah maybe. 27:28.009 --> 27:29.330 [SPEAKER_01]: No, he just makes an arch. 27:29.370 --> 27:33.933 [SPEAKER_01]: He made arches for what we make like curls and scrolls and stuff like that right now. 27:33.953 --> 27:34.734 [SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing like that. 27:35.716 --> 27:38.077 [SPEAKER_01]: I know you're talking about, but the name is... Yeah. 27:38.357 --> 27:38.877 [SPEAKER_00]: You can have to. 27:38.917 --> 27:39.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:40.358 --> 27:54.925 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know necessarily think that people are, you know, I think that the most important thing is he, the most amazing thing is he's able to, what he's able to do in a short period time is nothing but incredible. 27:55.725 --> 28:04.389 [SPEAKER_01]: So every time I have a mind where, you know, sometimes we're having people, you know, people write in questions and he answers them and stuff like that, part of me's just like, I don't know, just hear him talk. 28:05.049 --> 28:23.109 [SPEAKER_01]: because he's so interesting, and we had some time had passed, and I've had nothing but technical problems on the podcast, the technical issues on the episode, so I kind of, he was busy, I wanted to, I wanted to talk to him about that sculpture, the collaborative sculpture. 28:24.170 --> 28:29.652 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I was expecting last episode to be really just talking about the sculpture, because the sculpture is amazing. 28:30.132 --> 28:43.698 [SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted, I know that they had just rehabbed and are refinished the £2,000 Chambersberg and I thought, well, maybe we need a little bit of, you know, backstory and how they, you know, the renovation went. 28:45.256 --> 28:53.577 [SPEAKER_01]: It got to the point where he's telling the story because it's such a monumental story that I had to just be like, hey, he's coming back to talk about that sculpture. 28:53.598 --> 28:55.438 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not talking about anything else but that hammer. 28:56.098 --> 28:58.018 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's a great story. 28:58.278 --> 28:59.979 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a crazy story. 29:01.639 --> 29:02.519 [SPEAKER_00]: It is. 29:02.559 --> 29:06.120 [SPEAKER_00]: The white oak thing is funny. 29:06.300 --> 29:12.981 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I would use pressure for you, but I get he's trying to stay traditional with it, you know. 29:13.538 --> 29:15.039 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but I mean, it makes a lot of sense. 29:15.079 --> 29:24.062 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're listening to him talk about how he got the, and was incredible that he had the original blue prints. 29:24.922 --> 29:29.023 [SPEAKER_01]: And it made a lot of sense for him to just stick with the blue prints. 29:29.043 --> 29:30.104 [SPEAKER_00]: What they did to begin with. 29:30.164 --> 29:39.567 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, the blue print, I mean, the takeaway is, you know, they, I don't think when they put the blue prints in, the, the blue prints didn't really take an account that there might be a flood. 29:40.207 --> 29:54.412 [SPEAKER_01]: And there might be an incredible amount of water damage, like whether the water damage is from the flood, or for the 1945, I don't know exactly the date, or if there was water coming in through the roof and it just over time just started rotting the wood out. 29:55.985 --> 29:59.788 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that the blueprints ever covered for that to happen. 29:59.988 --> 30:10.955 [SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, if there wasn't water damage from the ceiling or from the river or whatever, it would have been the foundation would have been perfectly fine. 30:11.556 --> 30:16.119 [SPEAKER_01]: But it made perfect sense that he would do exactly what they originally did. 30:16.159 --> 30:20.001 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I think he's probably very aware of now 30:22.623 --> 30:24.588 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to make sure the water didn't get down to that. 30:24.608 --> 30:25.209 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right. 30:25.329 --> 30:25.610 [SPEAKER_01]: Really. 30:27.353 --> 30:28.255 [SPEAKER_01]: I was amazed. 30:28.536 --> 30:29.518 [SPEAKER_01]: The story was amazing. 30:29.598 --> 30:33.486 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just had a incredible sense of dread listening to it. 30:34.170 --> 30:36.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can feel the anxiety. 30:36.870 --> 30:38.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would have had to decide myself. 30:39.171 --> 30:42.651 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, imagine, imagine you're the executive director of a place. 30:42.691 --> 30:46.032 [SPEAKER_01]: You finally raised the money to do this restoration. 30:46.132 --> 30:49.773 [SPEAKER_01]: All the people who are behind you have seen you restore all these machines. 30:50.253 --> 30:53.693 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's never really been a situation where they're talking about the foundations. 30:54.393 --> 30:59.054 [SPEAKER_01]: And that when he saw that, here's what the crazy part is. 31:03.435 --> 31:14.423 [SPEAKER_01]: at a certain depth, or not touching all the way to the other set of dyes, it's a pretty amazing and he realized that there was a foundation problem immediately, right? 31:15.363 --> 31:19.626 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the craziest part, like, I would have been like, you know, it's fucking run this bitch. 31:19.747 --> 31:23.429 [SPEAKER_01]: We should be spending all this time in energy, like I'm running it, I don't give a fuck. 31:23.569 --> 31:26.832 [SPEAKER_01]: I would, it would never have done on me that there would have been a problem like that. 31:26.932 --> 31:27.192 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 31:31.855 --> 31:37.540 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, how much room do you have before, as he said, is catastrophic? 31:37.600 --> 31:48.589 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the flange hits the bottom of the ram hits the flange and the next thing you know, I mean, catastrophic is putty and modally, right? 31:49.289 --> 31:58.297 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is amazing that you look at that hammer in that shop and it looks kind of small, you know, but because it's surrounded by these other massive hammers, but it's really, I mean, 31:58.897 --> 31:59.417 [SPEAKER_00]: it's giant. 32:00.077 --> 32:16.983 [SPEAKER_01]: He sent me all these pictures of the dig out and actually if you go to full blast podcast on Instagram, I posted it, he sent me a picture of, you know, he's he's got a ladder going down from from the from the from the ground down to the bottom of the foundation line. 32:17.403 --> 32:22.064 [SPEAKER_01]: That was pretty amazing, like he's just like I have when people that people didn't just see how deep we 32:24.290 --> 32:25.070 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's insane. 32:26.071 --> 32:26.731 [SPEAKER_00]: It is crazy. 32:27.692 --> 32:28.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was great. 32:29.533 --> 32:29.933 [SPEAKER_01]: Pardon you. 32:29.953 --> 32:33.955 [SPEAKER_00]: You almost need like a storyboard of photos in there, like behind the hammer. 32:34.315 --> 32:37.176 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, he's a very good documentary in. 32:37.236 --> 32:38.997 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's got plenty of pictures, I'm sure. 32:39.257 --> 32:39.517 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 32:39.958 --> 32:42.739 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I'm amazed that he has 32:45.178 --> 33:03.287 [SPEAKER_01]: the ability to like if you meet Pat he's a chill guy I mean you listen to the grateful dead he's walking around in Birkensox he's he's a chill guy he's a really chill guy he's so focused but he's not crippled by indecision that to me is the crazy part like 33:04.007 --> 33:05.408 [SPEAKER_01]: He's very decisive. 33:06.108 --> 33:08.009 [SPEAKER_01]: He's very, he wants things a certain way. 33:08.049 --> 33:10.970 [SPEAKER_01]: He's very organized and he doesn't seem to me. 33:11.050 --> 33:12.011 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know. 33:12.091 --> 33:13.471 [SPEAKER_01]: I see him every six months or so. 33:13.511 --> 33:15.272 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know day to day. 33:15.712 --> 33:18.734 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is amazing that it doesn't seem like he's crippled with indecision. 33:21.335 --> 33:21.915 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess so. 33:22.395 --> 33:22.956 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? 33:22.976 --> 33:24.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, you get it. 33:24.436 --> 33:24.897 [SPEAKER_00]: You get it. 33:24.917 --> 33:25.997 [SPEAKER_00]: That's stuffed on in 10 years? 33:27.098 --> 33:27.318 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 33:28.638 --> 33:29.619 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what's crazy? 33:30.919 --> 33:32.340 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to make an apology to you. 33:34.048 --> 33:39.071 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, two episodes, two or three episodes ago, I had Ben Snorr and Ben C'mon on who are outstanding. 33:39.871 --> 33:42.532 [SPEAKER_01]: And I made a few mistakes. 33:42.812 --> 33:45.033 [SPEAKER_01]: My memory is not as good as I used to be. 33:45.514 --> 33:46.454 [SPEAKER_01]: I made a few mistakes. 33:46.474 --> 34:03.162 [SPEAKER_01]: I got a message from, from, from, from Pat saying that my memory on the coffee and bowl isn't what it used to be, that I said it was a $1,500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 34:03.322 --> 34:05.803 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I had sentimental value to him. 34:06.103 --> 34:09.623 [SPEAKER_01]: And Pat said, I don't remember it as well as I remember it. 34:09.984 --> 34:12.324 [SPEAKER_01]: My memory is not good on the table number one. 34:12.724 --> 34:19.986 [SPEAKER_01]: And number two is, I told Ben and Ben that you sold me a Vulcan hammer. 34:20.306 --> 34:21.486 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Vulcan. 34:21.706 --> 34:27.068 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't a, and then Ben was just like, there's no way he sold you a Vulcan hammer. 34:27.488 --> 34:28.088 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a devil. 34:28.148 --> 34:29.128 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there's a piece of it. 34:29.168 --> 34:30.168 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't give it there. 34:30.428 --> 34:31.369 [SPEAKER_01]: I got the V-right. 34:33.373 --> 34:34.594 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is that how you pronounce it? 34:34.934 --> 34:36.275 [SPEAKER_01]: The Indian, how do you pronounce it? 34:36.595 --> 34:37.436 [SPEAKER_00]: The Indian, my fan. 34:37.456 --> 34:37.936 [SPEAKER_01]: The Indian. 34:38.196 --> 34:41.878 [SPEAKER_01]: They'd, I don't know, I, I, my memory's not good. 34:41.978 --> 34:44.040 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually, my memory's getting worse. 34:44.440 --> 34:47.161 [SPEAKER_01]: So, like, for little things like that. 34:47.622 --> 34:48.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Old memories. 34:49.963 --> 34:50.803 [SPEAKER_01]: I like let them go. 34:50.984 --> 34:55.185 [SPEAKER_01]: So I apologize to you because you immediately be like, you can't let people know that I saw it. 34:55.485 --> 34:58.107 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not gonna let me ruin my reputation. 34:58.807 --> 35:00.148 [SPEAKER_00]: People are gonna think I'm selling crap. 35:00.928 --> 35:05.430 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the only I had the only Vulcan that I can remember that came through the shop. 35:05.510 --> 35:08.811 [SPEAKER_00]: I picked up like, I don't know, like 40 bucks or something cheap. 35:09.552 --> 35:12.693 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had treated it in, I think I welded. 35:13.023 --> 35:14.363 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, did the edges or something? 35:14.944 --> 35:25.427 [SPEAKER_00]: I traded into the Morales with a bunch of other animals and stuff where Lee was able to turn around and sell it to a young kid, really cheap, he was really excited. 35:25.467 --> 35:27.788 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's, I think that's the only one I've ever read past through. 35:28.749 --> 35:35.231 [SPEAKER_00]: But the, the Vandenam steel animals are, they're like 1930s, need by Vandenam corporation. 35:35.911 --> 35:41.133 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a high quality, like Castile Anva. 35:42.150 --> 35:48.332 [SPEAKER_01]: By nicest animals I've gotten from you, like I remember the first thing I've got from you, you sold me that hay button. 35:48.833 --> 35:49.893 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a nice hay button. 35:50.293 --> 35:52.074 [SPEAKER_01]: Great hay button, great hay button. 35:52.554 --> 36:01.237 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you've turned me into like an anvil snob, but like I've gotten a couple deals that you would have freaked out about. 36:01.404 --> 36:04.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that last one, the one that you restored was cheap, right? 36:04.626 --> 36:06.107 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, 150 bucks. 36:06.287 --> 36:08.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know, that's, you know, that happens occasionally. 36:09.348 --> 36:09.809 [SPEAKER_00]: For you. 36:09.829 --> 36:15.292 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it used to be like years ago, like, I don't know, 15 years ago, there was a scrapyard. 36:15.672 --> 36:19.954 [SPEAKER_00]: And I got, like, a colonial for $35. 36:20.074 --> 36:21.975 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I got 160 pounds. 36:25.367 --> 36:32.656 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I picked up, I think a little hay button for a hundred bucks, a little fisher for a hundred bucks, like she always told me stuff. 36:32.676 --> 36:32.956 [SPEAKER_00]: Cheap. 36:34.118 --> 36:40.125 [SPEAKER_01]: What, I mean, if you were to think about how many animals you've bought in your life, there's so many. 36:40.365 --> 36:41.667 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think in the hundreds? 36:43.352 --> 36:53.274 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, not bought but if passed through the shop, um, just because I do like a lot of, um, like restoration repair stuff for like this one antique dealer. 36:53.334 --> 36:59.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, he used to be a guy in Middlebury for a month, but he's, he retired out and now with some, the guy in Quiche. 37:00.656 --> 37:05.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, I feel like, which is cool because I don't have a lot of money in it. 37:05.537 --> 37:07.037 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I get to look at him and study him. 37:07.117 --> 37:07.237 [SPEAKER_00]: And, 37:08.387 --> 37:13.589 [SPEAKER_00]: I always thought I should have kept like taking a photo and like, you know, written something about everyone that's passed through. 37:13.609 --> 37:17.071 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what's your opinion on sideshelves? 37:19.252 --> 37:20.072 [SPEAKER_00]: You know my opinion. 37:20.332 --> 37:20.912 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that. 37:20.992 --> 37:21.853 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 37:22.073 --> 37:22.453 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 37:24.540 --> 37:34.066 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, you know, I don't like them for a wrong reason because I use the envelope like, um, you know, the opposite way as you guys were talking about, um, you know, use it. 37:34.086 --> 37:40.230 [SPEAKER_00]: So this, you use the horns, the horns to my right and like, um, oh, you use it, but you're left handed, right? 37:40.370 --> 37:41.151 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm right handed. 37:41.231 --> 37:43.132 [SPEAKER_01]: You're right handed, but you have the horn to the right. 37:43.332 --> 37:43.513 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 37:43.613 --> 37:48.176 [SPEAKER_00]: I was always told like a tool Smith uses the horn to the left and a, um, decorative iron work. 37:48.396 --> 37:49.216 [SPEAKER_00]: Use the horn to the right. 37:50.802 --> 37:53.624 [SPEAKER_00]: but I don't know if it really matters what side you stand on. 37:53.704 --> 37:57.486 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course I'll let me let my dog out of the room. 37:57.546 --> 38:01.049 [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. 38:01.509 --> 38:04.531 [SPEAKER_01]: So guys, Jesse is like unbelievable. 38:04.971 --> 38:10.295 [SPEAKER_01]: And he has probably one of the great podcasts that every once in a while comes back. 38:10.895 --> 38:37.039 [SPEAKER_01]: It's called the blacksmith's pub with, uh, he was mentioning Rick Barter, and, uh, and they don't do it very often once in a while when he comes back with the dog, I'll, uh, I'll, uh, I'll ask him about it, but when it comes to like, andville, andville history and, and the understanding of different types of animals where they came from, and a much, much better than it, not much better than Jesse Savage, blacksmith on Instagram. 38:37.619 --> 38:40.562 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't hear that that one, but I'm not a force. 38:40.762 --> 38:49.229 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dude, you know, like any time I've sent, like the last, the last handful, every handful I have that I can't identify, I always send to you. 38:49.249 --> 38:59.998 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you always have a million different little tricks, like what's the underside of the like or, you know, what's, you know, you're very, very knowledgeable on animals that come through the United States. 39:00.418 --> 39:03.101 [SPEAKER_00]: If I can't figure them out, then usually they call Ask Allen. 39:03.621 --> 39:04.742 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, let you know it's a lot. 39:04.782 --> 39:05.543 [SPEAKER_00]: He's pretty knowledge. 39:05.603 --> 39:06.144 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really. 39:06.284 --> 39:09.607 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's very knowledgeable too lucky some believable. 39:09.627 --> 39:11.069 [SPEAKER_01]: You lucky was a police officer. 39:11.429 --> 39:11.609 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 39:11.830 --> 39:17.776 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he In Boston, and then he did the In 9-11 he went in and helped with that. 39:17.816 --> 39:18.677 [SPEAKER_01]: He worked the pile. 39:18.797 --> 39:20.178 [SPEAKER_01]: He worked the pile as I love it. 39:20.419 --> 39:21.740 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah He's a good dude. 39:22.000 --> 39:23.822 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he'll be a maker can't make it. 39:23.842 --> 39:26.285 [SPEAKER_01]: He's even we're making making broooms or something. 39:26.305 --> 39:26.405 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah 39:28.045 --> 39:37.729 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess the interesting thing is I remember years ago on the blacksmith's pub, you had Jesse James, that was such a great episode. 39:37.789 --> 39:47.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was nerve-racking, because we couldn't, he couldn't connect to the thing, to the, you know, the link we sent him. 39:47.913 --> 39:51.534 [SPEAKER_00]: And my wife had to get on the phone with him and like, walk him through it on his computer. 39:52.974 --> 39:55.477 [SPEAKER_00]: Finally, we were able to connect, but that was a great conversation. 39:56.018 --> 39:56.759 [SPEAKER_01]: He was great. 39:57.079 --> 39:58.421 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a great storyteller. 39:59.102 --> 40:01.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was excellent interview. 40:01.405 --> 40:03.368 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the best interview I've ever heard with him. 40:04.296 --> 40:04.976 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so too. 40:04.996 --> 40:09.498 [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably because like he probably, you know, he's not a huge blacksmith. 40:09.878 --> 40:15.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's not, that's not his, you know, his, his, his learning experiences of blacksmith. 40:15.380 --> 40:17.521 [SPEAKER_01]: This is very, I mean, he hasn't taken a lot of classes. 40:17.541 --> 40:23.583 [SPEAKER_01]: He spent time with Offie, but I'll never forget you asked him about side shelves and I or somebody asked him about side shelves. 40:23.723 --> 40:27.205 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys at the point on the blacksmith, we're asking people if they like side shelves or not. 40:27.825 --> 40:34.949 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think someone, somebody said something and he said you said you don't like side shelves and he said what's wrong with you or someone along the way. 40:35.109 --> 40:46.675 [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably, yeah, that, you know, the only, like that was my argument about side shelves is the side of the envelope they're generally on, but I do like the English, um, what is it a Cooper envelope? 40:46.916 --> 40:53.479 [SPEAKER_00]: That has the little, it's a little side shelf, but it's like it's down further on the body of the envelope. 40:53.539 --> 40:54.400 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's out of the way. 40:55.488 --> 41:01.031 [SPEAKER_01]: I just remember using hoffies andville that we were talking about before. 41:01.631 --> 41:11.916 [SPEAKER_01]: When we were forging out scrolls, that side shelf, that side shelf once the scroll was finished and we're flattening it, that side shelf was very handy. 41:12.076 --> 41:16.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Because like all of a sudden now you can get the majority of the scroll on to the envelope and then 41:17.158 --> 41:22.184 [SPEAKER_01]: your your snub is kind of like on the on the side shelf. 41:22.665 --> 41:31.855 [SPEAKER_01]: So like for straightening, especially if you don't have like an acorn table or something like that, it was really really handy that it was really, really handy when we were you know straightening scrolls. 41:33.288 --> 41:35.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is handy for that stuff, I can see that. 41:36.229 --> 41:51.216 [SPEAKER_01]: But I can imagine, I can, I don't know, I mean, in that situation, you really have to forge because the side shelf was like you, if you're standing with the animal that horn on your left, you're sticking out. 41:51.296 --> 41:52.257 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's right in front of you. 41:52.477 --> 41:53.077 [SPEAKER_01]: It's right in front of you. 41:53.097 --> 41:53.577 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a key. 41:53.597 --> 41:54.718 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you in the next one. 41:54.938 --> 42:15.267 [SPEAKER_01]: you get a stick it's sticking out if you're you're standing at the animal and then the horns on your left the side shelf is on the left hand side facing out right I mean I don't know why they don't make it like you know right handed left handed or whatever like but it's not like do well I've never seen one but I mean maybe I'm wrong and I pay the attention but 42:17.224 --> 42:19.005 [SPEAKER_00]: That's more of a European thing anyways. 42:19.486 --> 42:36.178 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually wanted to talk to you about the European thing, because the London pattern andville, that most, if you're listening to this, you know what I'm blacksmith, a London pattern would be the closest, it's so fair, you're as an animal for the most part. 42:36.698 --> 42:42.783 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the closest thing to like the anvil that Wiley Kioci drops on you, right? 42:43.503 --> 42:51.226 [SPEAKER_01]: And what's interesting to me is when you look a lot of European blacks besanivals, there's never that step down to the cutting table. 42:52.303 --> 42:53.544 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think that is? 42:54.405 --> 43:01.971 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think that because, you know, the times I work on a year early envelope, I know that at Center for Mental Arts, the student animals are all year early animals. 43:01.991 --> 43:04.373 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no step down to the horn. 43:04.813 --> 43:06.674 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's the same thing with that. 43:06.734 --> 43:08.836 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it the so-hoe pattern of Peter Wright? 43:09.437 --> 43:10.858 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like, it's the same thing. 43:10.878 --> 43:15.661 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no, there's like an area that's obviously the cutting table, but there's no step down. 43:16.852 --> 43:40.173 [SPEAKER_00]: Because the step down is far more, I mean, I'm finding myself what I'm making like integral bolster chef knives, the step down has become, it's convenient, it's super convenient, especially rolling anything up like when I was forging those, those little broadheads for arrows, to roll up that little cone, it's kind of tough to do, you know, just hitting it from two sides, from the hammer and the envelope, but if you put it in that like, 43:40.775 --> 43:44.477 [SPEAKER_00]: you got that right ankle corner then you're hitting it basically three times when you hit it. 43:44.717 --> 43:51.882 [SPEAKER_01]: But you would never see a London pattern andville with a side shelf. 43:51.982 --> 43:53.162 [SPEAKER_01]: Those do not exist. 43:53.303 --> 43:53.543 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 43:53.923 --> 43:54.863 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so. 43:54.964 --> 43:55.844 [SPEAKER_01]: Why wouldn't that pay? 43:55.884 --> 43:57.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Why hadn't for some of you figured that out? 43:57.785 --> 44:08.792 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen animals like, I've seen a fairer's animals where they'll actually have like bending jigs in the handles, in the base in the handles so you can like open and close horseshoes. 44:10.475 --> 44:12.997 [SPEAKER_00]: I got my, my dogs are wrestling on the floor and not to hear him. 44:13.017 --> 44:13.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's good. 44:13.698 --> 44:37.157 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, keep it, 44:38.825 --> 44:44.566 [SPEAKER_01]: If you are nearly allowed to have five animals, which is hilarious, for you that I'm sure that's like Sophie's choice. 44:46.166 --> 44:49.367 [SPEAKER_01]: If you are allowed to have five animals, what animals would they be and why? 44:50.527 --> 45:04.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, I like you classically, later, uh, hey, button, you know, the tool's still top and, um, I, you know, I've always wanted as the ambulance mentioned one of those so-ho pattern Peter writes, but how would you, how would you, what's the character 45:06.932 --> 45:25.804 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got like two hardy holes, and doesn't have that step down, but they were bigger, I think they were like kind of for, you know, forging like boat stuff, maybe anchors and that sort of thing, you know, what do they call that? 45:25.824 --> 45:32.448 [SPEAKER_00]: The port Smith pattern, like the one that has got, it's got not like a kind of tape 45:36.747 --> 45:38.307 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of those would be handy too. 45:38.708 --> 45:39.948 [SPEAKER_00]: So, oh, powder on that. 45:40.408 --> 45:50.851 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I love my, like, as much as I used to talk track about Peter Wright, I did end up, I picked up one that's 350 pounds, something like that. 45:50.891 --> 45:55.133 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's, it's, it must be a later one, because it's, it's, it's pretty hard. 45:55.253 --> 45:55.833 [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, 45:56.656 --> 46:00.978 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, in its center, you know how like a lot of the old pure rights seem like they're pushed forward. 46:01.638 --> 46:02.019 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 46:02.359 --> 46:04.280 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and this one's like, it's pushed forward. 46:04.300 --> 46:05.220 [SPEAKER_00]: You mean horn forward. 46:05.320 --> 46:06.101 [SPEAKER_00]: Horn forward. 46:06.581 --> 46:08.302 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the whole thing kind of leans forward. 46:08.322 --> 46:09.582 [SPEAKER_00]: It looks like the older ones. 46:10.023 --> 46:12.404 [SPEAKER_00]: But on this one, it's like super well balanced. 46:12.444 --> 46:13.664 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just a nice envelope. 46:13.684 --> 46:15.865 [SPEAKER_00]: And I bought it to sell it and that ended up keeping that. 46:16.966 --> 46:20.668 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think they, what, if you were in the Anvil business, 46:21.938 --> 46:35.122 [SPEAKER_01]: What is, what would be the, the, why did they go from jump welding the, the waste, the body to, all the, there's so many different variations of the fabrication of animals. 46:35.203 --> 46:40.044 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think was the, was the best way of fabricating the animals? 46:41.205 --> 46:43.985 [SPEAKER_00]: The best way might be just to cast them, like, really. 46:46.704 --> 46:53.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Fisher says it's like a unique thing on its own, because it was iron and, um, Oh my, I got the dogs back again. 46:54.426 --> 46:55.346 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know. 46:56.366 --> 46:57.966 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no doors in the savage house. 46:58.406 --> 47:00.367 [SPEAKER_01]: The dogs go over the dogs go. 47:01.907 --> 47:03.968 [SPEAKER_00]: She's the one my daughter rescued from Puerto Rica. 47:04.508 --> 47:04.928 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh wow. 47:05.288 --> 47:05.608 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 47:07.048 --> 47:08.208 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to text my way. 47:08.889 --> 47:10.089 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, what were we saying? 47:10.709 --> 47:12.929 [SPEAKER_01]: I was saying that like the fabrication of animals. 47:17.133 --> 47:32.016 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what, you know, the old days as everybody knows, it's like, you know, they would jump well down like the feet and they would, like, you know, and England, they would forge on every kind of appendage to like a big block of iron. 47:33.477 --> 47:40.258 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, Peter Wright kind of made it so you forged the bottom half and the top half and then added a steel plate. 47:40.298 --> 47:43.579 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of those old envelopes, if you look at the Peter Wrights, especially, 47:44.774 --> 47:54.239 [SPEAKER_00]: You can see multiple pieces of steel through the, you'll see like a scene on the face, and it's because it's hard to get, like a big piece of steel like that. 47:56.340 --> 48:02.603 [SPEAKER_00]: So people sometimes think it's like, you know, it's cracked or something wrong with it, but it's actually just like multiple pieces of steel in the face. 48:02.903 --> 48:08.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I would think I would just think I would think that if you had like at least, you know, two pieces. 48:09.607 --> 48:11.528 [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier to manipulate. 48:11.888 --> 48:19.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's what, like, the later he buttons ours, like he forged that whole top half out of tools, the on the bottom half is that of, like, my old skill at around iron. 48:19.817 --> 48:24.722 [SPEAKER_00]: But even, like, even the later later, he buttons the, um, I know Trenton did it. 48:25.042 --> 48:29.007 [SPEAKER_00]: Was they didn't even forge well, then they just arc welded, you know, the top half in the bottom half. 48:29.067 --> 48:29.908 [SPEAKER_01]: What would that be? 48:30.108 --> 48:31.269 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how would that be bad? 48:32.347 --> 48:40.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I feel like, um, I just know from like, people that have welded a piece of plate steel to a top of an envelope because they want to put a new face on it. 48:41.337 --> 48:51.247 [SPEAKER_00]: And what you get is kind of it, it loses, um, loses a little rebound and it also gets, like, like, it's like a dead hollow head, you can feel it, you can hear it. 48:52.843 --> 49:10.319 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would imagine that would happen a little bit when you are called them speaking of which we had a hot take Two episodes go with Ben and Ben, which was Which was the reap the people walking around with with Stakes Yeah, the ball bearing thing. 49:10.339 --> 49:16.945 [SPEAKER_01]: The ball bearing for testing rebound What do you thought what do you thought I can't stand it? 49:18.106 --> 49:18.446 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it 49:19.578 --> 49:21.400 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's exactly what those guys said. 49:21.420 --> 49:27.365 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, if bouncing up all bearing off of an envelope, that's a little rusty is going to affect it. 49:27.445 --> 49:36.774 [SPEAKER_00]: Once you like sand that face and dress it, it's got a different rebound feel. 49:36.854 --> 49:44.901 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the ball bearing thing proves anything at all to the for the envelope. 49:45.181 --> 49:45.862 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's 49:48.109 --> 49:58.054 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I understand like it's you know you're judging like the density and how hard it's hitting back and everything like that, but I just think it's a it's a false test that people shouldn't rely on. 49:58.414 --> 50:14.782 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's what it's it says to me is this isn't someone who stands in front of an envelope day right you know because the rebound is only going to help you so if anyone's wondering what we're talking about once a while you'll see in the friends of ours do it too like by many Chris Epiary did a and I don't blame him. 50:15.282 --> 50:19.683 [SPEAKER_01]: Chris Epieri did a, you know, like a rebound video, testing the rebound of different animals. 50:19.703 --> 50:20.903 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he got a lot. 50:20.943 --> 50:23.164 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, his, his business is getting clicks. 50:23.324 --> 50:26.204 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, God bless him, I mean, he killed it. 50:26.565 --> 50:29.205 [SPEAKER_01]: But he ain't saying it for an animal all day long, you know what I mean? 50:29.545 --> 50:29.725 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 50:29.745 --> 50:37.547 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you're testing to see the rebound and in the, in the mindset of the, of the person dropping the ball bearing on the, on the hammer, 50:38.548 --> 50:53.347 [SPEAKER_01]: On the animal, it tells you how much rebound there is, and the rebound is something that's going to tell you when you're forging, how much energy is sending the hammer back, so you're expanding less energy when you're forging, right? 50:55.049 --> 51:12.911 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is, is most people, in general, aren't, especially if the steel is hot, and I think this is one of the things that, one of the things that Pat talks about, that most blacksmiths don't talk about at all, is forging isn't about how hard you hit, it's about the heat management of the steel. 51:13.472 --> 51:13.952 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, 51:15.050 --> 51:25.299 [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the unsung things that nobody, I never hear people talking about, where they're talked about the fact that you're not getting in hot enough to work. 51:25.319 --> 51:29.543 [SPEAKER_01]: And it shouldn't matter, it shouldn't matter. 51:29.623 --> 51:35.548 [SPEAKER_01]: It gets me crazy because the first thing I think of when I see that is, this is a person doesn't force. 51:36.204 --> 51:36.484 [SPEAKER_01]: at all. 51:36.945 --> 51:38.165 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with the ball bearing thing. 51:38.205 --> 51:50.373 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the ball bearing thing is, you know, and most people who are forging that long, who are forging all day long like that, would most likely get a power hammer because they know that they can't do this for long period of time. 51:50.473 --> 51:51.774 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to do it for 20 years. 51:52.074 --> 51:53.275 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's crazy. 51:53.895 --> 52:01.797 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is crazy because, you know, it's still to this day, you know, people have no understanding of what blacksmithing is at all. 52:02.837 --> 52:08.319 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just funny because I see that, you know, people say, well, what's how's the rebound? 52:08.759 --> 52:12.320 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, what's the rebound percentage of like, bro, you're asking their own questions. 52:12.700 --> 52:15.820 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, when people say to me, how's the food release on a knife? 52:15.940 --> 52:17.281 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh fuck yourself, dude. 52:17.381 --> 52:17.701 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't, 52:18.401 --> 52:31.105 [SPEAKER_01]: Trust me, like I've talked to knife makers in those good, well, you know, I have chefs who they'll cook, they'll be cutting onions all day long and they need this, you know, $1500 knife with food release and like, bro, they're using a squeeze in art. 52:31.585 --> 52:32.325 [SPEAKER_01]: You're crazy. 52:32.725 --> 52:37.627 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you don't know what you're talking about, but it is funny, I think the rebounding is the food release. 52:38.007 --> 52:44.069 [SPEAKER_01]: They're both in the same ballpark of this kind of like larping or, you know, this is cost players. 52:44.129 --> 52:44.529 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what 52:49.719 --> 53:05.720 [SPEAKER_01]: What are some other, uh, what would you say some other, uh, myths and forging or some myths and myths like what people have get right, uh, like dead if you, you can only like harden knife when you quench it North. 53:06.797 --> 53:07.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's all. 53:07.839 --> 53:09.241 [SPEAKER_01]: I love, we do that on Knife Talk. 53:09.261 --> 53:21.499 [SPEAKER_01]: We do all those things, and there are still so many people who believe that if you get face-do North, there's a magnetic pull that when you quench the watt, when you quench your knife. 53:22.560 --> 53:27.808 [SPEAKER_01]: if you're not facing due north, the magnetic pull of the earth will warp your knife. 53:28.148 --> 53:31.653 [SPEAKER_01]: As opposed to, that's the greatest, that is, that's fine. 53:32.054 --> 53:37.562 [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because if you really, really want to, if you really want to investigate why that is, 53:38.925 --> 53:55.630 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, the reason why it knife warps when it's being quenched is obviously there's too much mass on one side and not enough mass on the other so it's like welding when you're welding, you know, if you just take a piece of steel and put it next to pieces steel and make it like a right angle and then you weld one corner. 54:04.793 --> 54:10.197 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's, it shrinks and then it's going to pull, that shrinking pulls your, your steel out of square. 54:10.577 --> 54:13.059 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing with, with knives. 54:13.539 --> 54:23.287 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you're quenching in knife, if it's not even even even if you ground maybe ground too much on one side or maybe you forge too much on one side or maybe it's got a, it's already in a banana. 54:23.827 --> 54:34.671 [SPEAKER_01]: When you put it in the, and you put it, or you have a normalized it, if you put it in, and it turns, it's so much easier to blame the magnetic do north than to say, I did a bad job. 54:35.852 --> 54:37.152 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really what it comes down to. 54:38.673 --> 54:43.935 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were, we're not facing do north, you know, it's obviously, that's why it worked. 54:45.316 --> 54:45.576 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 54:45.716 --> 54:47.637 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't think of any others like, um, 54:48.656 --> 54:56.091 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's all those phrases with blacksmithing, like, you know, too many irons in the fire and all that stuff, but, um, I think the biggest, like, 54:57.544 --> 55:03.570 [SPEAKER_00]: thing that, you know, every, when we demonstrate at the Rotland Fair, like, um, I don't know how many people ask me if I should. 55:03.590 --> 55:04.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Horses. 55:04.431 --> 55:07.334 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, no, it's a fair here. 55:07.835 --> 55:12.279 [SPEAKER_01]: That dude, when I spent time with those fairiers, you would have loved it. 55:12.680 --> 55:14.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, with the earth that I remember that. 55:14.541 --> 55:18.385 [SPEAKER_01]: I was even then at the, uh, World Champion Blacksmiths. 55:19.186 --> 55:22.570 [SPEAKER_01]: These dudes are the best blacksmiths pound for pound on the. 55:22.730 --> 55:27.294 [SPEAKER_01]: These are the guys who care probably give a shit a little bit about the rebound. 55:27.635 --> 55:35.643 [SPEAKER_01]: The amount of forging they're doing in a short amount of time and what they're accomplishing in few heats is I've never seen anything like it. 55:36.344 --> 55:37.125 [SPEAKER_01]: Never seen anything like it. 55:37.980 --> 55:39.461 [SPEAKER_01]: because they're doing everything. 55:39.481 --> 55:40.903 [SPEAKER_01]: They're bumping the stock in the middle. 55:41.243 --> 55:41.503 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 55:41.523 --> 55:45.367 [SPEAKER_01]: You need to see, because when you bend a horseshoe, the middle has to be more mass. 55:45.427 --> 55:52.514 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you bend it, it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, when you're, when you're bending the steel, it's kind of pulls the steel and then it makes it thinner. 55:52.834 --> 55:55.477 [SPEAKER_01]: So you get a bump, the middle, they get a bump in the middle of the center. 55:55.857 --> 55:57.058 [SPEAKER_01]: You get an upset in the middle. 55:57.178 --> 55:58.280 [SPEAKER_01]: They call it bump in the middle. 55:59.400 --> 56:00.760 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never seen anything like it. 56:00.900 --> 56:04.041 [SPEAKER_01]: And these guys are like, they're not, they're hammering into themselves. 56:04.621 --> 56:07.022 [SPEAKER_01]: They're holding a steel in their hammering into themselves. 56:07.262 --> 56:08.442 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never seen anything like it. 56:08.782 --> 56:14.304 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have, there's a local guy that's a fairer that started the same shop. 56:14.384 --> 56:21.946 [SPEAKER_00]: I did Vermont foraging, but I've had them demonstrate at the New England Blacksmiths in 2015 and when we did it a couple of years ago. 56:23.326 --> 56:25.306 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got his whole pickup truck with everything in it. 56:25.366 --> 56:26.547 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's amazing to watch. 56:28.067 --> 56:30.550 [SPEAKER_00]: and like forge welding out of the gas forage and stuff. 56:30.630 --> 56:35.116 [SPEAKER_00]: It's you can make like perfect rings just off the horn. 56:35.917 --> 56:39.542 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, I mean, talking to Riley Kirkpatrick. 56:39.802 --> 56:40.403 [SPEAKER_01]: It is amazing. 56:40.443 --> 56:44.388 [SPEAKER_01]: He is one of those guys who there are certain faireers who only 56:45.108 --> 56:54.010 [SPEAKER_01]: Forge the shoes right and there's certain people who like I know John down and in doghouse forge he would have shoes. 56:54.170 --> 56:54.810 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm available. 56:54.850 --> 57:01.492 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think that a lot of it has to do with what people can you know What your ranch wants to spend right? 57:01.572 --> 57:07.993 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of areas nowadays just buy like a box of shoes and then they just shape them to the horses feet 57:08.551 --> 57:28.496 [SPEAKER_01]: I would think that, but yeah, so, yeah, so there's different sizes you can open and close them, but a lot of times, I don't, I'm not necessarily sure how a client wants to spend what they want, it's like going to a barber, you know, it's like, you want to spend 20 bucks on a haircut or you want to spend, you know, 150, 200 bucks on your haircut. 57:28.756 --> 57:35.318 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you really have to know the anatomy, the horse and like if you mess up on a horse this foot, you could really damage that animal. 57:36.278 --> 57:41.224 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the most amazing thing to me was when the as the competitions got stiffer. 57:42.405 --> 57:51.216 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not, if you're not, go listen to the Ben Store episodes where we talked about being at the American, the World Champion Blacksmiths. 57:51.896 --> 57:55.339 [SPEAKER_01]: So what they'll do is match play where they'll go. 57:55.359 --> 58:07.707 [SPEAKER_01]: There'll be a few guys and we prepare about a time and then they'll have like five minutes to they'll take a table and they'll be like a, like a cover over the, over the huff. 58:08.448 --> 58:20.076 [SPEAKER_01]: And then everybody, all the competitors will come in for that particular round and then they'll lift the hood, they'll lift the cover and then they'll be able to spend five minutes measuring the huff. 58:20.836 --> 58:27.380 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they have to make the shoot in a certain amount of time. 58:27.420 --> 58:28.700 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're all judged. 58:28.760 --> 58:37.045 [SPEAKER_01]: And then some people, you know, it could be just a little bit of difference between the two and then, you know, who knows. 58:37.805 --> 58:43.389 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is amazing, because I think that, I was sure, I was not asking, how do you figure out the, 58:44.289 --> 58:53.474 [SPEAKER_01]: the size because you take a measurement of basically the diameter of the hoof, maybe you take the sides and then the front and then you have to make a decision. 58:53.494 --> 59:03.459 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's some rule of thumb in regards to the size, but they don't get to put the the hoof, the horses you they made up against the hoof to make sure it's right. 59:04.139 --> 59:08.141 [SPEAKER_01]: They have to do it based off of the measurements that they take before they before they do it. 59:08.641 --> 59:08.861 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 59:08.961 --> 59:12.143 [SPEAKER_00]: And what imagine if you do enough of them, you know, becomes fluid. 59:12.403 --> 59:29.126 [SPEAKER_01]: yeah i think i think that there's like a standard method where it's basically the length times a width and and then they just kind of like there's they add a little bit or i'm not i don't know how to do it but the craziest part was as close to the end and these guys are like pollen ass and i know that um that um 59:30.167 --> 59:37.609 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, there, I mean, to me, some guys are doing four-hole in one pass, four-hole shoes and one pass. 59:38.129 --> 59:44.830 [SPEAKER_01]: But the craziest part is, is like, I think for the last one, they don't even allow, they're not even allowed to put a tape measure up against the hoof. 59:46.030 --> 59:46.570 [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy. 59:46.871 --> 59:51.091 [SPEAKER_01]: They, so they have to, like, look at it and try to estimate the size of the shoe. 59:51.491 --> 59:51.732 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 59:52.712 --> 59:53.272 [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy. 59:53.352 --> 59:56.753 [SPEAKER_00]: You can use different things to measure things, too. 59:56.793 --> 59:58.413 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you're to glance at it with your. 59:59.168 --> 01:00:02.951 [SPEAKER_00]: put your hand on the hoof for it's got to be a different way to do it. 01:00:02.971 --> 01:00:05.994 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, I don't think there were a lot of touch it. 01:00:06.034 --> 01:00:08.777 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that they were just like, I think it was just like, they had to look at it. 01:00:09.277 --> 01:00:10.859 [SPEAKER_01]: Just kind of just try to figure it out. 01:00:10.939 --> 01:00:11.519 [SPEAKER_01]: It was great. 01:00:11.759 --> 01:00:12.720 [SPEAKER_01]: The whole thing was nuts. 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:19.446 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I honestly, there's, there's, there's no more efficient blacksmith than a fairier. 01:00:20.107 --> 01:00:21.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're fast, for sure. 01:00:22.729 --> 01:00:25.252 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, they do so much work off the envelope. 01:00:26.464 --> 01:00:32.186 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's actually a program, kind of a couple hours for me at Cornell University there. 01:00:32.206 --> 01:00:33.946 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a barrier program in the arc state. 01:00:33.986 --> 01:00:36.907 [SPEAKER_00]: If anybody is interested in it. 01:00:37.167 --> 01:00:39.268 [SPEAKER_01]: It's obviously a slightly dying art. 01:00:39.348 --> 01:00:51.692 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, but like the race horses and stuff, they're not even, I think they use it where a woman but those barriers make as much as the ball player will make. 01:00:52.253 --> 01:00:57.875 [SPEAKER_01]: I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I 01:01:15.813 --> 01:01:19.875 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, you would think it'd be not safe for the animal, but I got to get Riley back on. 01:01:20.095 --> 01:01:21.095 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to get him back on. 01:01:21.315 --> 01:01:26.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know anything about it, but you know, you know, so what else is going on? 01:01:28.078 --> 01:01:40.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I prepared for, make your camp and I've got to do, um, donating like a little coat rack thing to a friend that's doing, um, like a little art show for, um, three's money for animals. 01:01:41.484 --> 01:01:41.924 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's good. 01:01:42.124 --> 01:01:43.625 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just kind of a local thing. 01:01:44.522 --> 01:02:04.669 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you doing any railings at all or do you get calls for I've got an order for some, but I think I'm going to pass that to a friend I'm not going to have I don't have any time to do anything that big I hate doing railings yeah I've got to do I need to do like finish a small one for my front porch. 01:02:16.313 --> 01:02:39.730 [SPEAKER_00]: Some blacksmith had done these really cool railings where it's like the legs come up and they Basically half faced the end and bent it over and then that riveted on to the top of the railing and then like same thing on the bottom And then you bolted it down so there was like there's no like electric welds anywhere and it was like a really simple Let's call a tract of a way to just see a railing down 01:02:41.355 --> 01:02:46.980 [SPEAKER_01]: The thought of doing railings, I did a railing for my next door neighbor, and that was about as much second handle. 01:02:47.541 --> 01:03:01.013 [SPEAKER_01]: I did it to my old man, John, left for Camelvern, and we did knock this railing out for this my neighbor, but I hated the lifting, I hated the flipping over welding, I hated the 01:03:01.433 --> 01:03:02.093 [SPEAKER_01]: Painting. 01:03:02.213 --> 01:03:02.634 [SPEAKER_01]: I hated it. 01:03:02.914 --> 01:03:03.514 [SPEAKER_01]: I hated it. 01:03:03.794 --> 01:03:04.135 [SPEAKER_01]: I hated it. 01:03:04.615 --> 01:03:07.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Slepping the schlepping materials didn't like any of it. 01:03:07.877 --> 01:03:09.658 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to go back and forth back and forth. 01:03:09.858 --> 01:03:10.918 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's a pain. 01:03:11.058 --> 01:03:11.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Forget it. 01:03:12.139 --> 01:03:13.320 [SPEAKER_01]: One thing I do love. 01:03:13.780 --> 01:03:17.582 [SPEAKER_01]: I do love doing the my favorite thing to do is forging lamb stongs. 01:03:18.843 --> 01:03:24.449 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say forging a lambs tongue is one of the most satisfying with like molded cap rail. 01:03:25.289 --> 01:03:34.739 [SPEAKER_01]: There isn't anything in architectural fabrication to me as as rewarding as forging in a lambs tongue, right? 01:03:35.179 --> 01:03:39.743 [SPEAKER_01]: But with Caprail, now I'm not talking like just some with like molded Caprail. 01:03:40.323 --> 01:03:51.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the guy I started with he would actually just like take that caprail and he would take a torch and cut the taper and then he would just scroll it up and it was like this kind of simple way to do it. 01:03:51.993 --> 01:03:57.817 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a simple way to do it, but if you have molded Caprail, right, you just cut a V. We talk about this. 01:03:57.837 --> 01:03:59.599 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's no, that's what that's what he did. 01:03:59.619 --> 01:04:00.800 [SPEAKER_01]: No, the V on the inside. 01:04:01.522 --> 01:04:02.202 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, in the inside. 01:04:02.222 --> 01:04:04.083 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you don't tape, no, but this is unbelievable. 01:04:04.163 --> 01:04:05.823 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, we never talk about this before. 01:04:05.903 --> 01:04:08.184 [SPEAKER_01]: I've done an Instagram about this years ago. 01:04:08.204 --> 01:04:08.844 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:04:09.104 --> 01:04:14.225 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're making a railing, I did, I learned this with John back in the day. 01:04:14.245 --> 01:04:15.625 [SPEAKER_01]: It blew my mind. 01:04:16.225 --> 01:04:24.847 [SPEAKER_01]: So molded cap rail, you know it if you're listening, you know it, molded cap rail is sort of a standard railing is maybe, let's just say this channel underneath. 01:04:25.328 --> 01:04:29.048 [SPEAKER_01]: You pop holes in all the channel, you put the pickets in and then you're able to weld, 01:04:32.229 --> 01:04:40.812 [SPEAKER_01]: through the inside of the channel, you know, then all of a sudden you're not well, you don't have to be well on the, you don't have to be well on the holes and all of a sudden you're well-discovered inside the channel. 01:04:41.272 --> 01:04:51.675 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's the moldy cap rail which is domed and then there's a fluted and then it fits and then they're made to fit over the size channel that you buy. 01:04:52.076 --> 01:04:59.098 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's some moldy cap rails that you can use different size channels, like they'll have ledges for the channels, different sizes. 01:04:59.778 --> 01:05:04.261 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you buy the molded cap rail, it doesn't come with an end. 01:05:04.602 --> 01:05:10.366 [SPEAKER_01]: You can go to a place that'll have cast ends, like a lamb's tongue or something like that. 01:05:10.386 --> 01:05:13.068 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lamb's tongue, if you're going to like what a lamb's tongue, a lamb's tongue is. 01:05:13.528 --> 01:05:16.410 [SPEAKER_01]: Yet the end of it's the termination of the railing, 01:05:17.911 --> 01:05:20.492 [SPEAKER_01]: where it's not going into a wall or something like that. 01:05:20.532 --> 01:05:27.534 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's coming down, usually the terminations will be, for a lamb's song, it'll be going down upset of stairs. 01:05:27.914 --> 01:05:33.955 [SPEAKER_01]: And then after the new opos, it'll swoop down and then start to taper and then it'll come back up. 01:05:34.175 --> 01:05:36.116 [SPEAKER_01]: It'll come back up and it'll be like a snub on the end. 01:05:37.216 --> 01:05:40.897 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the best thing I've ever done. 01:05:40.937 --> 01:05:42.117 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is so cool. 01:05:42.577 --> 01:05:44.198 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you get your cap real, 01:05:45.263 --> 01:05:47.744 [SPEAKER_01]: And not, don't weld anything to it, just the cap bro. 01:05:48.284 --> 01:05:55.687 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you measure, like, maybe, depending on the size of the lamp so you want, you cut a V on the inside. 01:05:56.188 --> 01:05:58.969 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, you cut almost like you were like fish lips. 01:05:58.989 --> 01:06:00.469 [SPEAKER_01]: So I know what you're saying. 01:06:00.509 --> 01:06:04.311 [SPEAKER_01]: You're cutting, you're measuring the center of the cap bro. 01:06:04.371 --> 01:06:07.872 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe six inches to the outside edge and six inches to the outside edge. 01:06:07.892 --> 01:06:10.333 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you will use a saw, use a torch, whatever. 01:06:10.373 --> 01:06:13.515 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you cut out, so it looks like the mouth of a fish, right? 01:06:14.235 --> 01:06:17.296 [SPEAKER_01]: So then you heat up those sides and then push them together. 01:06:18.156 --> 01:06:20.717 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you tack it all together. 01:06:21.197 --> 01:06:23.018 [SPEAKER_01]: You tack the top together. 01:06:23.038 --> 01:06:28.079 [SPEAKER_01]: Because all of a sudden now, the only the seam is on the rounded part of the capitol. 01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:33.881 [SPEAKER_01]: And then what John was doing was we were forging in. 01:06:34.321 --> 01:06:35.542 [SPEAKER_01]: So what your capitol is, 01:06:36.702 --> 01:06:38.383 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're making remember measurements. 01:06:38.584 --> 01:06:42.466 [SPEAKER_01]: Caprel is like half inch by three quarters, is that sound right? 01:06:42.747 --> 01:06:43.247 [SPEAKER_01]: Sounds right. 01:06:43.427 --> 01:06:43.807 [SPEAKER_01]: Sounds right. 01:06:44.128 --> 01:06:49.231 [SPEAKER_01]: So you get a piece of steel bar that's half inch by three quarters, and then you forge the taper down. 01:06:49.872 --> 01:06:54.655 [SPEAKER_01]: So you forge the taper into that bar, so it fits on the inside. 01:06:55.556 --> 01:06:57.917 [SPEAKER_01]: of the underside of the caprail, right? 01:06:58.097 --> 01:07:11.522 [SPEAKER_01]: So, however, wherever your caprail is going to end, your steel bar that you just forged down will butt into the caprail, butt into the, the seat, the channel when it's all together, right? 01:07:11.902 --> 01:07:12.122 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:07:12.162 --> 01:07:12.802 [SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense? 01:07:13.082 --> 01:07:18.324 [SPEAKER_01]: So then you tack your bar that you've just forged and then put in the inside of your lamb's tongue. 01:07:18.684 --> 01:07:20.385 [SPEAKER_01]: You tack well that all together. 01:07:21.613 --> 01:07:30.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you weld up your seam, then you feather in the weld, because the weld is just on the top dome, which should be easy to kind of grind down. 01:07:30.944 --> 01:07:34.828 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you have the straight, like, it's almost like you have the straight arrow. 01:07:35.189 --> 01:07:37.992 [SPEAKER_01]: You stick it in the forge, and then you're able to forge down. 01:07:38.192 --> 01:07:40.014 [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason why you have to weld that, 01:07:41.115 --> 01:07:56.403 [SPEAKER_01]: steel bar and is so it doesn't cave in so that you're so you're the dome doesn't cave in because you're not going to be able to It's all it would be like you know forging a sea channel, right you don't you need that stability of the steel bar in order to forge the whole thing 01:07:57.303 --> 01:08:22.352 [SPEAKER_01]: it's it's I don't know if it was easy to understand what I'm talking about it yeah it's funny because he kind of did the opposite but he also didn't use like the dome cap really used like a solid but yeah or there's cap real that has little ridges and that's tougher but if you have like this dome cap real yeah it makes it it makes it look like so that you're outside the framing of the cap real kind of tapers in towards the end and it looks 01:08:24.472 --> 01:08:44.294 [SPEAKER_01]: We would do these, I remember when John showed me how to do it, I was like, I love, that was my favorite part of the job was making flamstones because with molded capitol because it is, when you see it, that isn't just like ground down and you see the piping on the outside on what you call it of the molded capitol. 01:08:45.015 --> 01:09:07.922 [SPEAKER_01]: it's legitimately like all of a sudden you're just like that shit is that's you can all of a sudden when you look at railings and you see one with like a forged in or a fabricated in the lamp song you're just like somebody did a good job really good but you all of a sudden you're looking at railings in a totally different manner yeah it is called a study a lot of the handmade railings when you see them around um 01:09:10.393 --> 01:09:11.174 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some cool ones. 01:09:11.194 --> 01:09:14.639 [SPEAKER_00]: There's one endorsive Vermont that's like it was forged out of lake. 01:09:15.219 --> 01:09:17.343 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, it's like two inch by lake. 01:09:18.786 --> 01:09:41.531 [SPEAKER_01]: maybe like half inch flat stock and like the top rail goes down into a dragon said oh wow yeah it's really cool it's um but who knows we did it you don't see you don't see for really good I we used to call the ones you know like the guys who just run you know feet of you know feet of railing and then their scrolls are just obviously done like a you know a 01:09:49.534 --> 01:10:08.292 [SPEAKER_00]: it's just like they don't that people don't they don't see that as being they don't see it as being kind of late right I know and all the all the railings you see with all the came architecture stuff where it's just the welders buying like you know Chinese made blacksmith part right and welding amendua into a railing um I 01:10:09.928 --> 01:10:13.050 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I mean, if you got to make money at it, right? 01:10:13.230 --> 01:10:15.211 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the, that's the, we hated it. 01:10:15.231 --> 01:10:18.313 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, back in the day, we really wanted to do everything. 01:10:18.693 --> 01:10:18.853 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:10:18.913 --> 01:10:21.875 [SPEAKER_01]: And there were times where King Architectual Pickets would show up. 01:10:22.515 --> 01:10:28.538 [SPEAKER_01]: And we would have to put in these textured, you know, they bought textured, King Architectual pickets. 01:10:28.558 --> 01:10:30.239 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're just like, bro, we can do this. 01:10:30.259 --> 01:10:33.621 [SPEAKER_01]: And they were just like, we don't want to spend the money in the labor, right? 01:10:33.641 --> 01:10:35.022 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like, you know, those, um, 01:10:35.722 --> 01:10:37.323 [SPEAKER_00]: like those baskets from care. 01:10:37.564 --> 01:10:38.564 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, the basket. 01:10:38.584 --> 01:10:39.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are fucking hate those things. 01:10:40.166 --> 01:10:40.486 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:10:40.846 --> 01:10:47.632 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, I mean, handy to have that stuff, because then you got a bunch of consistent, you know, baskets that, you know, you could well then. 01:10:47.732 --> 01:10:53.096 [SPEAKER_01]: But this brings me to a point that I wanted, I was talking to John Ledford every so often. 01:10:53.116 --> 01:11:02.784 [SPEAKER_01]: So John Ledford was the lead guy at Finer contextual metal smiths, which was part of, uh, um, uh, uh, which was part of, uh, 01:11:05.466 --> 01:11:11.630 [SPEAKER_01]: And we were talking recently about how fabrication has changed. 01:11:12.570 --> 01:11:19.034 [SPEAKER_01]: And like we look at the fireball tables, you know the fireball tools tables and then all the fixtures people are making. 01:11:19.694 --> 01:11:24.297 [SPEAKER_01]: And you see people like Matt Harris has the fireball tables and he's using that and all that stuff. 01:11:24.997 --> 01:11:31.481 [SPEAKER_01]: And all I can think of is God damn if we had all this new fabrication like jigging products. 01:11:36.676 --> 01:11:43.579 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'd like to use one of those new welders, that's like, totally, um, it's like a laser. 01:11:44.660 --> 01:11:45.600 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea. 01:11:45.700 --> 01:11:47.441 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, this is Chris Cash, I have that. 01:11:47.681 --> 01:11:50.962 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Chris Cash is like a torch and uh, that doesn't interest me at all. 01:11:50.982 --> 01:11:51.343 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know. 01:11:51.723 --> 01:11:58.166 [SPEAKER_01]: I just know that what the crazy thing to me is is like, if we have the things back then. 01:11:58.246 --> 01:12:02.748 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I remember when we were laying in a table laying our, one of our layout tables was two I beams. 01:12:03.655 --> 01:12:09.937 [SPEAKER_01]: And then two, and we would just move the eye beams to length to, you know, depending on the height of the railing. 01:12:11.347 --> 01:12:16.709 [SPEAKER_01]: That to me was just like, you know, that's how we did it, and then you could clamp your angles on to put the wrangling. 01:12:17.130 --> 01:12:23.072 [SPEAKER_01]: But I see the way that how people are making these, it's almost luxurious. 01:12:23.953 --> 01:12:25.113 [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost luxurious. 01:12:25.233 --> 01:12:28.335 [SPEAKER_01]: These all this layout equipment, the people are fabricating. 01:12:28.355 --> 01:12:31.356 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just fireball tools, those tables that they're making. 01:12:31.376 --> 01:12:39.019 [SPEAKER_01]: I look at some of the jigs they have, and stuff like that would probably save me hours on or putting a railing together. 01:12:40.441 --> 01:12:45.133 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, isn't that basically what the like an acorn table is? 01:12:46.106 --> 01:12:48.308 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, you've got to have all the jigs and stuff. 01:12:48.668 --> 01:12:52.531 [SPEAKER_01]: It is an acorn table, but I think that the tools that they're making on top of it. 01:12:52.551 --> 01:12:58.476 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't necessarily think that a lot of acorn tables have holes on the sides of the acorn table. 01:12:58.516 --> 01:13:01.017 [SPEAKER_01]: Usually, it's like a giant platen table, right? 01:13:01.598 --> 01:13:02.779 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess they wouldn't. 01:13:03.239 --> 01:13:07.142 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think you'd have, I don't think because they were solid, right? 01:13:07.182 --> 01:13:07.402 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:13:07.462 --> 01:13:13.327 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think that his or that way, but the tools that they make to use with platen tables can be forget about it. 01:13:15.087 --> 01:13:18.030 [SPEAKER_01]: So, what are you looking forward to for MakerCamp? 01:13:18.791 --> 01:13:20.472 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm just to see everybody in hangout. 01:13:21.273 --> 01:13:22.654 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, hopefully we have good weather. 01:13:22.674 --> 01:13:28.660 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was debating that I'm bringing like a little charcoal grill but I was like, I don't know if I want to be cooking there. 01:13:29.036 --> 01:13:35.059 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, every year I always think, you know, be fun if I could, if we could cook, you know, do like cook, cooking something. 01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:37.541 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm just like, I just thought, I'm fucking too. 01:13:37.901 --> 01:13:40.222 [SPEAKER_01]: I have overextended myself this year by a mile. 01:13:40.382 --> 01:13:40.782 [SPEAKER_00]: I have it. 01:13:41.403 --> 01:13:44.664 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I have totally said yes to the way too many things. 01:13:45.145 --> 01:13:45.665 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:13:45.745 --> 01:13:49.627 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing a two-day demo, a total boat, hopefully it's like an hour one day and an hour and another day. 01:13:49.647 --> 01:13:50.968 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking forward to it. 01:13:51.028 --> 01:13:52.829 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a good time and they've been really good to me. 01:13:53.309 --> 01:13:54.790 [SPEAKER_01]: I do, I'm like up to my back. 01:13:54.811 --> 01:13:57.373 [SPEAKER_00]: You gotta keep Mitchell's gonna be there this year too. 01:13:57.573 --> 01:13:58.954 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great, so we could see him. 01:13:58.974 --> 01:14:03.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm up to my back teeth and total about that God. 01:14:04.759 --> 01:14:07.461 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm doing something with Tormack, the Tormack guys. 01:14:08.142 --> 01:14:11.024 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, I'm gonna get my boss broken by John. 01:14:11.865 --> 01:14:15.107 [SPEAKER_00]: John is already, you know, we're probably fired from modern people. 01:14:15.228 --> 01:14:19.811 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dude, he's already, every, every year, if I do something with somebody else, 01:14:21.793 --> 01:14:22.433 [SPEAKER_00]: double-dipped. 01:14:22.453 --> 01:14:30.156 [SPEAKER_01]: You double-dipped and in this year you found out that I'm doing it so I'm going to tell you about anti-armac and he goes, you triple-dipped and you triple-dipped. 01:14:30.256 --> 01:14:31.476 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I agreed to be on up. 01:14:31.516 --> 01:14:36.338 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody reached out to me, they want me to be on a line of podcasts that make your camp and I'm just like, yeah, I'll do whatever you'd say. 01:14:36.778 --> 01:14:41.080 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be very elusive to a certain degree and I'm just, I'm going to really not 01:14:42.060 --> 01:14:52.406 [SPEAKER_01]: be as, you know, I would do whatever I, whatever they ask me to do, I'm gonna do, but at the same time like, you know, I don't know how I'm gonna do the butterfly knives, some of the parts I'm not gonna be able to fabricate. 01:14:52.426 --> 01:15:08.857 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think I'm gonna really focus on forging the forging the blades and then explaining how I get to the point where we're putting together the whole thing, but I also want to forge a bowie knife, I want to forge some chef knives, so 01:15:09.778 --> 01:15:12.528 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how I'm going to be able to kind of like figure it all out. 01:15:12.969 --> 01:15:14.929 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it depends on how late you stay. 01:15:15.310 --> 01:15:16.810 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying, well, I'm seeing my sisters. 01:15:17.010 --> 01:15:17.850 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I wondered. 01:15:18.410 --> 01:15:19.290 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what? 01:15:19.451 --> 01:15:21.971 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a sister, doesn't live far away, and I don't get to see her enough. 01:15:22.071 --> 01:15:25.512 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really nice to kind of spend a little time with her. 01:15:25.612 --> 01:15:27.973 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't really drink that much anymore. 01:15:27.993 --> 01:15:31.793 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm just staying up all night, drinking, forging just doesn't interest me. 01:15:31.813 --> 01:15:35.454 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember one year, I was forging in somebody's hand me a shot. 01:15:35.474 --> 01:15:38.935 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was that, it was a disgusting, what was that stuff for? 01:15:38.955 --> 01:15:40.115 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, it was awful. 01:15:43.256 --> 01:15:54.723 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just like I don't I don't want people handing me shots of weird things and you know, you know, that's just it's not really for me So yeah, I think the first couple years we were out there for a window like midnight or whatever. 01:15:54.743 --> 01:15:56.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dude It's crazy. 01:15:57.065 --> 01:15:58.286 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do that anymore. 01:15:58.306 --> 01:16:09.673 [SPEAKER_00]: I get to hold get to hold Yeah, no, I kind of feel the same way But we're going in Friday afternoon and then we'll demo a little bit and then we'll demo Saturday and then take off something 01:16:10.043 --> 01:16:18.466 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're going to I'm going to be there early Saturday morning and then I'll leave Saturday afternoon late late late Saturday Sunday afternoon Okay, and we'll fall around there. 01:16:18.506 --> 01:16:20.486 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'll be cool to see you again. 01:16:20.586 --> 01:16:22.127 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's be good to great to see you. 01:16:22.447 --> 01:16:24.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good to see you. 01:16:24.548 --> 01:16:25.008 [SPEAKER_01]: There you go. 01:16:25.288 --> 01:16:31.390 [SPEAKER_01]: Jesse Savage ladies and gentlemen, Jesse Savage blacksmith on Instagram My friend my friend. 01:16:31.410 --> 01:16:31.890 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm you. 01:16:32.030 --> 01:16:34.671 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm older than you, but not by much, right? 01:16:35.151 --> 01:16:36.852 [SPEAKER_01]: Not by much a few months a few months. 01:16:36.932 --> 01:16:37.292 [SPEAKER_01]: All right guys. 01:16:38.032 --> 01:16:39.453 [SPEAKER_01]: We will see you next week. 01:16:39.513 --> 01:16:43.557 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping to have Pat back next week because we're going to talk about that sculpture. 01:16:44.398 --> 01:16:47.140 [SPEAKER_01]: And many thanks for all the great support. 01:16:47.700 --> 01:16:51.243 [SPEAKER_01]: If you go to full blast podcast Instagram, you can interact with the show. 01:16:51.924 --> 01:16:54.086 [SPEAKER_01]: And we will see you next week. 01:16:54.686 --> 01:16:55.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again, Jesse. 01:16:55.807 --> 01:16:56.288 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, thank you.