WEBVTT 00:03.962 --> 00:28.827 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a gay up name for a gay up podcast David Collins is on that's a gay as podcast looking absolutely gorgeous now David you just said to me off the record you were coming in with a certain executive vibe what'd you say that vibe was executive daddy realness right and you know I got I got I got my harness right a little bit then that brings the gay right David it's a 00:30.467 --> 00:32.428 [SPEAKER_00]: It shows the pipes, right? 00:32.448 --> 00:48.475 [SPEAKER_01]: See, this is why you're one of the greats, because sure you create amazing television and film, but also you know you're fuking audience, and you know the gaze, want to harness, and a bit of a low cut, and maybe even a gorgeous beard, and David Collins, you know, can you do that right here? 00:49.675 --> 00:51.856 [SPEAKER_01]: see it all keeps getting better and better. 00:52.036 --> 00:55.638 [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, David, we have so much to discuss on this chaos podcast. 00:55.858 --> 01:02.661 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you first answer really hard hitting question, which is you've described yourself as a hillbilly from Ohio. 01:02.821 --> 01:07.203 [SPEAKER_01]: David Collins, what's the most hillbilly quality you still have as a 01:10.402 --> 01:12.143 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, broccoli cheese casserole. 01:12.504 --> 01:15.446 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yep, yep, broccoli cheese casserole. 01:15.526 --> 01:16.327 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything's giving. 01:17.308 --> 01:21.211 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, because I, I, I watch myself go into a grocery store. 01:21.572 --> 01:24.014 [SPEAKER_00]: And by three jars of cheese whiz. 01:24.694 --> 01:26.516 [SPEAKER_00]: And not, you know, not like, good. 01:26.536 --> 01:28.418 [SPEAKER_00]: She, like, cheese whiz in a jar. 01:29.018 --> 01:37.267 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, see scientists still can't tell us what is actually in that she's was, but we do know it's what going to give you a hidden illness. 01:38.308 --> 01:42.292 [SPEAKER_01]: David Collins, I would love for you to answer a curiosity of mine. 01:42.512 --> 01:44.494 [SPEAKER_01]: You've been nominated for 12 Emmys. 01:44.755 --> 01:46.937 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell the listeners how many of those have you won? 01:51.508 --> 01:53.249 [SPEAKER_01]: And don't get it twisted. 01:53.369 --> 01:54.830 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody listening is twisted. 01:54.930 --> 01:56.811 [SPEAKER_01]: I need you to know about David Collins. 01:56.851 --> 02:10.861 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a creator of queer eye, the producer of the instant hit House of Stasi, the delicious double lives of suburban wives, which follow six women in my hometown of St. Louis, Missouri, who are secretly making spicy content online. 02:11.261 --> 02:14.143 [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, you are one of the founders of scout productions. 02:14.623 --> 02:18.147 [SPEAKER_01]: And me and Academy Award winning media company and you are someone David. 02:18.287 --> 02:25.154 [SPEAKER_01]: I have looked up to for years and our orbits have crossed But it's so delicious that they're coming together in this way right now. 02:25.534 --> 02:27.376 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about being on a gas podcast? 02:27.396 --> 02:30.119 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel scared, horny, excited? 02:30.199 --> 02:30.760 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the vibe? 02:31.500 --> 02:33.302 [SPEAKER_00]: all of the above first of all right. 02:34.343 --> 02:45.150 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I was excited because while yeah, I'm the gay guy behind queer eye and proud, by the way, hold that with much pride. 02:45.370 --> 02:48.933 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't mention legendary, which weirdly I do want to talk about because like the 02:48.953 --> 02:50.373 [SPEAKER_00]: Please watch legendary. 02:50.674 --> 02:51.954 [SPEAKER_00]: Where's the queer I part? 02:52.334 --> 02:55.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, here's what the gay say to be about queer. 02:55.475 --> 02:56.115 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready? 02:56.495 --> 02:58.496 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, thank you so much. 02:58.836 --> 03:00.837 [SPEAKER_00]: You've done so much for the world for the case. 03:01.077 --> 03:05.298 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't watch it, but it's a thank you for everything you've done. 03:05.979 --> 03:23.922 [SPEAKER_00]: And I always, I'm always taken by the fact that they have the balls and we're like, yeah, I've never actually seen it, but thank you so much for your contribution to our community, where it's just when legendary, legendary was, you know, about the most marginalized community in the world. 03:24.442 --> 03:27.663 [SPEAKER_00]: African American trans community ballroom community, right? 03:28.043 --> 03:33.065 [SPEAKER_00]: That this old white guy stepped into and saw this beautiful world. 03:33.745 --> 03:36.887 [SPEAKER_00]: And we got three amazing seasons on HBO Max. 03:37.187 --> 03:40.128 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I loved about that was like the gaze were on it. 03:40.808 --> 03:45.730 [SPEAKER_00]: And if there's any one thing that I could ask more than that is when his legendary coming back where is legendary? 03:45.750 --> 03:46.350 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, legendary. 03:47.336 --> 03:52.520 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you get such a wide range of reactions from gay guys because gay guys can't what shut the fuck up. 03:52.580 --> 03:56.483 [SPEAKER_01]: But also you have really done so much for us. 03:56.783 --> 03:58.865 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, yes, there's legendary, yes, there's queer eye. 03:59.185 --> 04:12.795 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess the place I want to start with is if we talk about those two shows specifically, obviously legendary did so much for trans visibility and for bringing a voice to a community that is being targeted, queer eye has done so much. 04:15.517 --> 04:21.659 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's no question that both of those shows played a part in changing the culture's attitude towards queer people. 04:22.239 --> 04:34.043 [SPEAKER_01]: Outside of gay guys drunkenly giving you on their own opinions without being asked, what would you say has been one of the biggest domino effects on culture of these two shows? 04:36.102 --> 04:53.969 [SPEAKER_00]: Twenty, twenty three years ago, when we pushed that first domino and the chain reaction started, the most important part of that domino was that there was this like safety for communication like it created this safe space that I think 05:02.832 --> 05:03.933 [SPEAKER_00]: a safe conversation. 05:04.433 --> 05:17.220 [SPEAKER_00]: And so for me that that domino effect really crescendoed when we hit legendary because while I adore my baby of queer I right I actually have a tattoo of queer I right here. 05:17.240 --> 05:17.260 [SPEAKER_00]: I 05:20.121 --> 05:27.167 [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely feel like legendary the timing of the importance of that conversation. 05:27.587 --> 05:34.953 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember seeing, you know, Paris is burning 20 years ago and realizing, oh wow, this is a whole new world. 05:35.714 --> 05:41.359 [SPEAKER_00]: And I got invited to a ball in West Hollywood at the gymnasium. 05:42.219 --> 05:52.122 [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the ball, I was going out to the parking garage, one by the library there, and I got inside the elevator, and then there were these two young little boys. 05:52.242 --> 06:01.724 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, young, like 15 years old, screaming and crying, because they had just been asked to be in the house of Balenciaga. 06:01.744 --> 06:04.945 [SPEAKER_00]: And they were just weeping about what it meant. 06:06.610 --> 06:32.098 [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember just standing there just watching this moment and being so taken that that these what this meant for them, right, that these two little boys who probably were trans or little, you know, they were they were figuring out themselves and to be invited into that world meant the world to them. 06:32.663 --> 06:40.725 [SPEAKER_01]: David, that gives me fuking chills, because you're landing on something so real, which is the importance of feeling included in a community. 06:40.805 --> 06:46.887 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's so many of us that felt so ething ostracized growing up, and I can only imagine how you felt. 06:46.927 --> 06:55.069 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's probably why I think so many of us look up to you is because sure there's like the difficulty of being in Hollywood, but on the other side of it, there's also like 06:55.649 --> 07:15.560 [SPEAKER_01]: the bravery it takes to actually give a voice to a community that it's not exactly chic or accepted to give them a voice, but the problem with you David is that we could spend probably four hours talking about these shows, but I want to get to know the man behind these, which is why I need to ask you the very famous podcast question David Collins. 07:15.580 --> 07:17.881 [SPEAKER_01]: That question is who's fault? 07:18.202 --> 07:19.442 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it that your gay? 07:19.482 --> 07:20.423 [SPEAKER_01]: Who do we blame? 07:21.383 --> 07:22.464 [SPEAKER_00]: all right. 07:22.544 --> 07:26.327 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a tie between Barbara Streisand and Donna Summer. 07:27.408 --> 07:30.851 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it definitely is a tie there and here's why. 07:30.871 --> 07:36.515 [SPEAKER_00]: And reset her day morning and around 8 a.m. My mom, this is old school, right? 07:36.775 --> 07:41.879 [SPEAKER_00]: We had the record player where you could like stacks and records and put the thing on them, one would drop after another. 07:43.240 --> 07:56.030 [SPEAKER_00]: She would put on all the disco albums, put them on and be like, wait, it's time to clean house and we would clean house from everyone from Barbara Streisand to Donna summer to Gloria Gainer to everyone in between. 07:56.110 --> 07:57.932 [SPEAKER_00]: So definitely is there. 07:58.412 --> 08:09.416 [SPEAKER_01]: your mom is an ally in an icon because it is next to impossible to not make a kid gay if they're going to be listening to babes and don't as they are doing their choreases. 08:09.716 --> 08:16.359 [SPEAKER_01]: But David, obviously as me being a young Jewess, I love a Barbara Streisandree and I'm also like a big Broadway girlie. 08:17.759 --> 08:24.842 [SPEAKER_01]: When you were growing up as a Hillbilly in Ohio, were you sort of was Barbara the only Jewess that you were in touch with or were you 08:26.122 --> 08:28.104 [SPEAKER_01]: or were there other Jews that you had known. 08:28.164 --> 08:29.485 [SPEAKER_00]: I just a great question. 08:29.565 --> 08:33.408 [SPEAKER_00]: Great question and and very important question in my world. 08:33.428 --> 08:44.337 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, even jellical southern Baptist bird and hell fire and brimstone right upragging right first Baptist church of Mason Ohio. 08:44.817 --> 08:49.141 [SPEAKER_00]: and the pastor used to preach right to me, right, to fire in Brimstone. 08:49.561 --> 08:56.487 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we, we, uh, kind of knew music minister and lo and behold, he was a Jew. 08:56.907 --> 08:57.968 [SPEAKER_00]: What was a Jew? 08:58.689 --> 08:59.430 [SPEAKER_00]: For a Christ. 09:01.451 --> 09:22.451 [SPEAKER_00]: And it changed the whole game because the congregation was like, wait a second, you can't have a Jewish music minister at a southern Baptist church who believes that Jesus Christ died on the cross to their sins right and that that was my first mistake, but I will tell you this he saw me and he he knew 09:25.634 --> 09:31.737 [SPEAKER_00]: who I was and he before I did I think and I mean that's not true because I knew young. 09:32.458 --> 09:35.099 [SPEAKER_00]: I came out of the wounds screaming gay. 09:35.319 --> 09:52.929 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he gave me a sense of kindness and love and look, you know, rabbis in general tend to have a larger philosophy of love in life than any of the pastors that have ever been part of my life. 09:53.489 --> 09:54.751 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's so interesting. 09:54.791 --> 10:06.904 [SPEAKER_01]: I so well said because I think this Jewish music minister seeing something and he was probably him identifying like the otherness that he had felt within himself and I'm dying to know the 10:13.191 --> 10:17.516 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, let's do the hunt for the minister Jew of Ohio. 10:17.937 --> 10:21.061 [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds like a delicious HBO series, I think. 10:21.481 --> 10:22.362 [SPEAKER_01]: We should develop. 10:22.643 --> 10:29.411 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's also kind of begging the question of if you're coming from this place of like being told you're going to burn in hell. 10:30.011 --> 10:51.622 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, when we do go to the sub stack side, I'm going to ask about like your first boy boy kiss because it's something I'm dying to know about, but outside of like the horny questions, were you someone that waited to come out until you escaped Ohio escaped that specific church or were you someone that kind of dipped your toe into the gate outside of the closeness and high school. 10:52.082 --> 10:52.543 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 10:52.683 --> 10:52.923 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 10:52.963 --> 10:53.923 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question. 10:53.983 --> 10:54.223 [SPEAKER_00]: So. 10:56.045 --> 11:16.118 [SPEAKER_00]: Eric I'm going to I'm going to dive in to try to tell a really condensed version of something that is I would say probably the most full circle complete moment of my life that really guided everything so sophomore year of high school I had just turned 14 in June so I'm in 11:23.203 --> 11:43.038 [SPEAKER_00]: I met the first boy that we'll talk about in sub-stack, yes, right, yes, and he and I skipped school and the schools have a problem with a truancy and so I was like the good boy, I was in the football team, I was in the school play, I worked for the principal, I was student body president or I was student class president at the time. 11:43.938 --> 11:46.120 [SPEAKER_00]: They expelled me for two weeks. 11:47.121 --> 11:52.786 [SPEAKER_00]: And the guy that my first kiss at a big was this senior, and he's like, let's go to New York. 11:53.787 --> 11:56.289 [SPEAKER_00]: I packed everything that I owned. 11:56.890 --> 12:01.995 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had $11,000 in the bank from like birthdays and gifts and working that I had held. 12:02.535 --> 12:07.460 [SPEAKER_00]: I took all $11,000 and flew to New York City when I was 14 years old. 12:08.200 --> 12:10.142 [SPEAKER_01]: what in the world. 12:10.382 --> 12:12.204 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can you answer for me. 12:12.244 --> 12:14.026 [SPEAKER_01]: Why are you your works spelled for two weeks? 12:14.526 --> 12:16.208 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they use me as an example. 12:16.688 --> 12:17.709 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you get to school. 12:18.568 --> 12:37.785 [SPEAKER_00]: for one day and it's not seen in say it well so much so that here here's the story coming full circle my mother went in and like you know box the school boards years while I was gone I ended up missing my entire sophomore year of high school and I end and I never made it up. 12:39.216 --> 12:41.837 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a freshman to a junior. 12:42.938 --> 12:47.819 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what you did, David, is you learned way more than a sophomore would have learned by that time. 12:47.839 --> 12:50.421 [SPEAKER_01]: You spent your entire life. 12:50.681 --> 13:03.926 [SPEAKER_01]: I went to New York as an 18 year old to go to NYU, and that was already a big eye opener from the grasses of Missouri, my own Hillbilly suburban upbringing to being like a big gay ass new slut in New York. 13:04.226 --> 13:04.766 [SPEAKER_01]: You, though, at 14, 13:06.647 --> 13:09.448 [SPEAKER_00]: like a great house in Hell's Kitchen. 13:09.468 --> 13:10.488 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my. 13:10.528 --> 13:13.129 [SPEAKER_00]: He's in eighth at the Belvedere Hotel. 13:13.549 --> 13:19.572 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, the guy that I went with, he lasted a week and a half, they got the plane and went back home. 13:19.972 --> 13:23.013 [SPEAKER_00]: And I stayed alone for nine more months. 13:23.593 --> 13:39.418 [SPEAKER_01]: So you've always had the Hutspa and the Moxie to go into the fire as it were because, I mean, I don't know, it's sort of a delicate question to get into the mind of a 14-year-old in New York City like, maybe we'll wait for a subject to find out like what exactly happened. 13:39.558 --> 13:41.999 [SPEAKER_01]: But let me just ask like the zoomed out question. 13:42.319 --> 13:47.401 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to assume where there are a lot of sort of life learning moments you had at 14 in New York. 13:47.962 --> 13:48.923 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a lot. 13:49.164 --> 13:55.013 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of that the if you give me that give me the the honor. 13:55.053 --> 13:56.776 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to bring this story full circle. 13:57.217 --> 13:59.180 [SPEAKER_00]: I got a job at the Yale club. 14:00.489 --> 14:03.191 [SPEAKER_00]: yelled graduates only as a bar boy. 14:03.211 --> 14:06.253 [SPEAKER_00]: So I had always looked older than I was. 14:06.713 --> 14:08.714 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea how I got the job. 14:09.114 --> 14:11.396 [SPEAKER_00]: I served cocktails, right? 14:11.916 --> 14:15.698 [SPEAKER_00]: The private detectives that my parents had hired found me there. 14:16.199 --> 14:22.302 [SPEAKER_00]: I went running managed to say that my uncle Travis said, hey, hello, whoa, you don't have to come home. 14:22.362 --> 14:25.865 [SPEAKER_00]: We know you're, you know, whatever it is you are if they didn't want to say 14:26.785 --> 14:30.887 [SPEAKER_00]: whatever it is you are, but you call your mom, you've got to call your mom. 14:31.647 --> 14:37.489 [SPEAKER_00]: And so 25 years later, where I happened. 14:38.290 --> 14:45.573 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if you know this, but my 15 minutes of fame, I became the D. You know me guy for American Express. 14:45.833 --> 14:46.713 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I know that. 14:46.913 --> 14:49.294 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I became the D. You know me guy. 14:49.714 --> 14:54.456 [SPEAKER_00]: And during that time, I got asked to give the keynote address to the President 14:56.866 --> 14:57.838 [SPEAKER_00]: I walked in. 14:58.769 --> 15:03.272 [SPEAKER_00]: to the Yale Club Ballroom where I had been serving cocktails at age 14. 15:03.852 --> 15:05.513 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's where God comes in. 15:06.133 --> 15:15.758 [SPEAKER_00]: As I walked up the stairs, a voice clear as day said to me, do not give the speech tell your story. 15:17.099 --> 15:23.022 [SPEAKER_00]: And I walked out and there's a room of 300 businessmen in white ties, all, you know, financial execs. 15:23.663 --> 15:27.305 [SPEAKER_00]: And I told the story of a 14 year old little gay boy. 15:27.885 --> 15:40.670 [SPEAKER_00]: who was scared to death, and who he was, what it was to come where he was going to be, and to be standing here tonight, I just was weeping and weeping. 15:41.050 --> 15:48.852 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big crybaby to begin with, but no, I am to that moment for me was, that's bigger than us, right? 15:51.175 --> 16:10.980 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, but there's, you know, I might not be like a super religious girl, but I've replaced that with like a university and my spirituality and I am such a university girl and there's something so deep there about the full circle of from the bar backing to the American Express of it all. 16:11.380 --> 16:16.941 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that again, I think you have a higher calling in terms of storytelling and 16:21.122 --> 16:36.436 [SPEAKER_01]: go a bit fast forward to when scout productions was founded just so the girl is know it's 1994 a quick piece of trivia you start in the company with a man named Michael Williams and I need you to know that my twin brothers name is Michael Williams. 16:36.657 --> 16:38.799 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a universe thing there happened. 16:38.819 --> 16:40.060 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, check that off. 16:41.601 --> 17:07.093 [SPEAKER_01]: But you had to have all the bravery as a 14 year old to be going to New York and then of course to get into the business of creating television and film and telling stories, especially when you are a gay creator producer entrepreneur, what was it like being a gay creator in the 90s when you were first starting was it feeling like you would never be able to make it into the quote unquote big boys club, what was it like. 17:07.613 --> 17:17.680 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great question because this story, and I am filled with them, but I feel like I'm blessed because I've lived so many lives. 17:18.201 --> 17:23.885 [SPEAKER_00]: My very first job, I was 21 years old, had just graduated college. 17:25.399 --> 17:36.665 [SPEAKER_00]: I was Jody Foster's assistant on her directorial debut Little Man Tate and Jody Foster gave me the greatest three things of advice ever in human being. 17:36.685 --> 17:41.088 [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, first of all, do you want to babysit parking cones on the set? 17:41.428 --> 17:48.232 [SPEAKER_00]: Please, be my guest or you can sit at my desk and watch a movie go across it and learn how to make a movie. 17:48.912 --> 17:56.254 [SPEAKER_00]: And then she said also, don't be a PA. Like PA, if you get stuck as a PA, you're never going to go anywhere. 17:56.274 --> 18:02.915 [SPEAKER_00]: And my title, if you look it up on Little Manteate, is not PA David Collins, because that's what I was doing. 18:02.935 --> 18:10.577 [SPEAKER_00]: I was scrubbing toilets and running errands, but is special projects coordinator, David Collins. 18:10.597 --> 18:16.779 [SPEAKER_00]: In the third part that she said, she's like, tell your stories, don't tell anyone else's stories, 18:19.200 --> 18:35.401 [SPEAKER_00]: And to have that blessing happen at 21, to have this woman, this icon, Jody Foster completely guide the direction of my career, my heart, and my soul is pretty spectacular, right? 18:35.641 --> 18:58.931 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's so spectacular because as you know we talked about character actresses at the end of this and I'm not saying that Jodie Foster is one I'm just saying that she is an actress who has given us so much and in fact I just had a birthday weekend in big bear with a bunch of gays and we spent maybe 30 minutes talking about Jodie Foster in the film contact We are I'm such a Jodie Foster stand. 18:59.031 --> 18:59.792 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that she 19:01.053 --> 19:11.727 [SPEAKER_01]: If I could have been a fly on the wall to see her help a young David Collins and set his trajectory into the place it's come or the place it's been, I think it's such a delicious start to your career. 19:11.888 --> 19:14.952 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know at the time that Jodie was queer? 19:15.092 --> 19:16.814 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you have any inclination? 19:18.336 --> 19:21.679 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't want to get drove and telling this story. 19:21.859 --> 19:23.640 [SPEAKER_00]: She did get a bouquet of flowers. 19:24.101 --> 19:35.030 [SPEAKER_00]: I was a delicious, delicious, you know, but on that movie, I met my two best girlfriends and my ex-husband of 25 years. 19:35.370 --> 19:40.875 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, and who ended up becoming my business partner in launching scout. 19:41.575 --> 19:42.556 [SPEAKER_00]: who is Michael Williams. 19:43.276 --> 19:43.936 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait a minute. 19:44.157 --> 19:47.298 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a gagad upon gagad. 19:47.659 --> 19:49.880 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a way way way way. 19:49.960 --> 20:01.206 [SPEAKER_01]: So you know, when I hear when I hear about gay divorces, I also love to go into those because it's just it's a it's a part of human nature relationships and and so again on Substack that is going to be a tease. 20:01.226 --> 20:02.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get into that. 20:02.627 --> 20:14.771 [SPEAKER_01]: because if listeners don't know, David Collins not only has live a crazy life, but also are the father of two badass twins, which we're going to get into the idea of fatherhood shout out to Ellen Olive. 20:15.651 --> 20:18.972 [SPEAKER_01]: You also, your content on Instagram is really great. 20:19.152 --> 20:22.733 [SPEAKER_01]: You've started these walking and talking videos that I think is a 20:23.573 --> 20:38.385 [SPEAKER_01]: extension of your work on television because you're basically not doing the classic social media thing of like my life is perfect look at my life, which I think would be easy for a person like you, but you actually give us the real T. In fact, you said recently that 20:39.170 --> 20:51.980 [SPEAKER_01]: you woke up, you wanted to produce the day a certain way, and it wasn't going your way, and I'm someone who is like a type A Virgo producer gay, so I very much appreciate you showing the struggles along with the highlights. 20:52.320 --> 20:56.824 [SPEAKER_01]: David Collins, give it to a straight as somebody who might be jealous of someone like you. 20:57.344 --> 21:02.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Any other struggles, frustrations, complaints you have, that you would like to get off your chest right now. 21:04.940 --> 21:07.001 [SPEAKER_00]: or so many, I don't even know where to start. 21:07.461 --> 21:10.481 [SPEAKER_00]: The state of this industry, the state of this world, right? 21:10.521 --> 21:14.182 [SPEAKER_00]: There's all of these crazy things. 21:15.002 --> 21:16.023 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you this much though. 21:16.323 --> 21:25.045 [SPEAKER_00]: I do try to start each day in gratitude in some way, shape or form, because if we don't, I only have control 21:25.945 --> 21:30.447 [SPEAKER_00]: my actions and my reactions period and of story and he wants that. 21:30.587 --> 21:34.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, that's that I can't control what you're going to do. 21:34.128 --> 21:35.509 [SPEAKER_00]: She's going to do or he's going to do. 21:35.849 --> 21:40.210 [SPEAKER_00]: And Lord knows, after you have teenagers, you really learn the lesson, the hard way. 21:42.191 --> 21:45.093 [SPEAKER_01]: God, I cannot imagine being a parent to a teen. 21:45.253 --> 21:48.455 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm still in many ways a teenager in my own brain. 21:48.555 --> 21:49.936 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still trying to figure shit out. 21:50.316 --> 21:59.441 [SPEAKER_01]: I get so fucking moody, and like even yesterday, I was having a moment where I was in such a shitty mood. 21:59.481 --> 22:03.583 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just realized I was fully hungry and then the day completely changed. 22:03.603 --> 22:05.525 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm still hungry, right? 22:05.905 --> 22:06.805 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 22:07.065 --> 22:07.606 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:08.206 --> 22:32.531 [SPEAKER_01]: But so if I ask you to give us some complaints and we do want to go to a quick highlight, which is the fact that you have found so much success with queer eye, especially when it comes to the Emmys, I'm someone who is in the beginning of my career in creating my own shit and so I obviously aspire to reach those levels, but I want to know the truth of the Emmys, you've now been I've counted 87 times. 22:34.271 --> 22:53.245 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, what would you say is the best and worst part of going to the Emmys the best part of course is picking your outfit out before you go, right, like you got to you got to figure out the fit you got to you you want to you know you're the get you're the queer guy behind queer eyes so you better be free could bring in it, right? 22:53.825 --> 22:56.447 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're a white jacket this year that was really delicious. 22:56.827 --> 23:00.250 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was cream and that was Drineborn. 23:00.270 --> 23:02.291 [SPEAKER_01]: So they were calling me in. 23:02.311 --> 23:03.172 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for calling me in. 23:03.192 --> 23:11.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was that was a cream jacket with a black tuxedo pant, but I, you know what? 23:11.257 --> 23:13.419 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the idea of getting dressed, I always have. 23:13.479 --> 23:16.061 [SPEAKER_00]: I love fashion, fashion's a fun thing for me. 23:17.442 --> 23:20.484 [SPEAKER_00]: And mommy, who is, we'll get to mommy. 23:20.504 --> 23:45.150 [SPEAKER_00]: because, you know, there's Michael and then there's mommy who is the kids, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh 23:48.931 --> 23:56.217 [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't want to be too prepared and your head you just start spitting in your head and you're just the whole time just how the 23:57.540 --> 24:02.384 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, give the smile because the cameras are usually like right here at chef. 24:02.504 --> 24:19.239 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, you know, you kind of know if you're going to win or lose, by the way, because they love to have the camera on you if you lose, right, because they want to lose reaction is bad if they want the win reaction, don't think it like, oh, look how a great gracious. 24:20.059 --> 24:34.908 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it really, they're making even people, even people who aren't capital A actors are making them act because you have to show such strength and poise, but I also listen, I have never been to the Emmys and have never been to the Oscars. 24:35.349 --> 24:42.793 [SPEAKER_01]: My version of it, this podcast was nominated two years in a row for the clear tease, and so it's sort of like the gay, diet version of that. 24:43.754 --> 24:48.517 [SPEAKER_01]: And I even felt in that moment, I kind of knew I wasn't going to win because I was up against like, 24:48.917 --> 24:50.418 [SPEAKER_01]: you know incredibly famous people. 24:50.458 --> 24:59.461 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was just genuinely honored to be a part of the conversation, but I was genuinely relieved I did not win because I did not want to give a speech in that room. 24:59.561 --> 25:09.424 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can only imagine how it would feel to be in the room of the Emmys with that amount of Hollywood power, both like onscreen and off. 25:09.864 --> 25:17.347 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there are there any people that you have come across all these years that is either in front of or behind the camera that like was 25:19.227 --> 25:30.192 [SPEAKER_01]: got nervous in front of we're super gags to see like I'm sure you're used to seeing a lot of heavy hitters, but who are the people that really stand out as like you're so so moved to see them. 25:31.126 --> 25:49.585 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, look, Jody for first just because of our history and and and I believe the the icon that she is and what she's doing for our community now right for sure, but I don't world before reality TV right did huge movies. 25:50.566 --> 26:05.920 [SPEAKER_00]: with Jack Nicholson and Danny DeVito, a house sitter with Goli-Hon and Steve Martin, and by the way, Goli-Hon and Steve Martin's hair guy who was a wig guy wanted me to get a to pay because I was too young, I was too young and pretty to be bald. 26:06.321 --> 26:08.643 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wore a to pay from 22 to 30. 26:10.785 --> 26:11.666 [SPEAKER_00]: No, 23. 26:11.846 --> 26:12.046 [SPEAKER_00]: 30. 26:12.406 --> 26:26.756 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, that's, and my best girlfriend poor, clear, uh, floor ox on them on my 30 and birthday and basically destroyed $30,000 worth of two pays and she said, you get a hate me for the rest of your life or it's the best gift I ever gave you. 26:27.116 --> 26:31.720 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, David, I want to I want to investigate a journalistic moment here. 26:31.901 --> 26:36.205 [SPEAKER_01]: You said these hairpieces were worth tens of thousands of dollars. 26:36.305 --> 26:42.330 [SPEAKER_01]: The honest with me now in hindsight, were they good hairpieces was the science good at the time. 26:42.711 --> 26:44.552 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's the truth of the matter. 26:44.993 --> 26:47.175 [SPEAKER_00]: It was when a professional put it on you. 26:47.635 --> 26:48.436 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 26:48.676 --> 27:10.307 [SPEAKER_00]: And and and yet to wake up, it's 430 in the morning for eight years in a freaking row to try to like kick each little like because it was a lace front right sure Lou down the lace and then he had to pull each piece of it was it was it was insanity so like every day every day felt like a high school production of our town is what you're saying. 27:12.188 --> 27:21.477 [SPEAKER_01]: I, I, I just need to tell you how to see and I feel because I'm someone who my hair started to receive probably my mid 20s and I was so embarrassed. 27:21.517 --> 27:22.778 [SPEAKER_01]: I started the monoxidil. 27:22.838 --> 27:25.961 [SPEAKER_01]: I started to be a propisa now that I'm 37. 27:26.061 --> 27:30.545 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so happy to be at an age where it's like appropriate to have a bit of a high forehead. 27:31.085 --> 27:32.665 [SPEAKER_01]: Will I go to Turkey? 27:33.085 --> 27:34.026 [SPEAKER_01]: I might. 27:34.146 --> 27:35.186 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like very much. 27:36.026 --> 27:41.827 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a question that I I think it's a yes, but I just got my tonsils out and I was painful enough. 27:41.847 --> 27:46.088 [SPEAKER_01]: So I sort of want to not be in pain for a few months But I'm all the tonsilectomy. 27:46.108 --> 27:46.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:46.708 --> 27:47.188 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 27:47.208 --> 27:48.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for your support. 27:48.368 --> 27:49.888 [SPEAKER_01]: But no David, you rock a ball head. 27:49.948 --> 27:52.329 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that there is It works. 27:52.429 --> 27:54.209 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a good shape ball head, right? 27:54.229 --> 27:55.569 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I will tell you. 27:55.589 --> 27:59.250 [SPEAKER_00]: I still find this is this security cap. 28:00.062 --> 28:00.302 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 28:00.382 --> 28:09.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, there's a there's a security in it that definitely was formed back in the in the because when the to pay wasn't looking right. 28:09.469 --> 28:14.693 [SPEAKER_00]: If I put a cap on and had just a little friend here right or a little friend here on the sides. 28:14.713 --> 28:16.635 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, Oh, everyone thinks I have hair. 28:16.655 --> 28:17.836 [SPEAKER_00]: I just have a ball cap on. 28:17.856 --> 28:18.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 28:18.897 --> 28:20.098 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was all bullshit. 28:20.238 --> 28:29.505 [SPEAKER_00]: It was all totally me trying to psych myself out because I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to fucking get up at 430 in the morning and try this well figure it out. 28:29.865 --> 28:46.928 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, but listen, I think that you're pointing to something that's very real for us, which is that when you grow up gay, you want to not only fit in, but you also want to like be perceived as having it together, looking perfect, that's why so many of us have like body dysmorphia and we compare ourselves and 28:47.488 --> 28:48.069 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 28:48.329 --> 28:54.955 [SPEAKER_01]: I've only started to hit the gym in the last year coming from a place of like healthy, just like wanting to actually feel better. 28:55.355 --> 28:59.719 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm starting to feel a change, but I'm going to be honest with you David. 29:00.060 --> 29:04.984 [SPEAKER_01]: I have only lived in LA for five years and my friends have been here for like 10, 15 years. 29:05.144 --> 29:13.232 [SPEAKER_01]: I think their brains are warped and they have mashed potatoes when it comes to like self-esteem and how they look because there is such a bar of 29:13.772 --> 29:26.060 [SPEAKER_01]: of perfection for beauty here that I appreciate you know looking my best but I think it's you know it affects dating here it affects like people's own image like we we're okay to look human you know 29:26.752 --> 29:29.592 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and by the way, to age, right? 29:29.713 --> 29:39.474 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, to actually age, like, you know, from the twing to the twing to the daddy, to the grand daddy, whatever, it's just the idea of aging. 29:39.674 --> 29:45.975 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, back to the, the hair wig guy from House Center, which was probably 1992 or something, right? 29:46.115 --> 29:46.375 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:46.495 --> 29:51.856 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, for him to say to me, like, you're too young and handsome to be bald. 29:52.356 --> 29:56.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what that did in my inner psyche of my inner self, 29:56.897 --> 30:03.605 [SPEAKER_00]: My poor little 22 year old self was like, oh my god, I'm I'm too young and pretty to be this mall. 30:03.685 --> 30:11.475 [SPEAKER_01]: The irony is that if you had either shaved or had buzzed your head, you probably would have been just as gorgeous if not even more like. 30:12.015 --> 30:36.762 [SPEAKER_01]: it's just it's just we it's very easy for us to change our perceptions of ourselves based on what other people say but I feel like a really good goal to have that I think you're probably killing that I'm working on it's just like not have any of our feelings about ourselves come from anybody outside of ourselves you know it's so hard in this world right now with social media with the the business that we're in like I'm more and more trying to have a 30:39.243 --> 30:56.961 [SPEAKER_01]: a career at work stuff because my validation, I mean, if we're getting really down to it since I brought up your divorce, I'll put my fucking marriage, I had many so many years of difficulties with my husband, Matt, because I was constantly begging for him to give me validation. 30:58.242 --> 31:02.325 [SPEAKER_01]: that he should be doing and also he doesn't want to do. 31:02.445 --> 31:14.493 [SPEAKER_01]: And so throughout my years of like this podcast and my work, I've had to have so much practice and getting my validation from my own fucking brain and not from someone else. 31:14.553 --> 31:17.054 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think what you're saying is like really spot on. 31:17.434 --> 31:21.197 [SPEAKER_00]: When we look in the mirror, right, you've got to, you've got to, you've got to love yourself. 31:21.337 --> 31:22.718 [SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, we've got to start there. 31:23.277 --> 31:26.359 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and that's actually you're leading a good example for your kids. 31:26.379 --> 31:29.520 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to get into the fatherhood stuff before we cross over to the other side. 31:29.600 --> 31:31.261 [SPEAKER_01]: So what is the law? 31:31.381 --> 31:36.604 [SPEAKER_01]: You're you had these kids with your ex and then there's a mommy reference. 31:36.744 --> 31:38.185 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you give us the deal? 31:38.205 --> 31:42.167 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's the big picture because it's funny when you talk about the divorce. 31:42.287 --> 31:50.291 [SPEAKER_00]: If you had known how many times that I've had to say at a fancy private school here in LA, you know what, the gaze, they get divorced too. 31:51.792 --> 31:58.578 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and they get remarried and then there's no fathers in and how many times have you been married now? 31:58.878 --> 31:59.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, three. 32:00.059 --> 32:00.959 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay. 32:00.999 --> 32:01.160 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 32:01.180 --> 32:02.461 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, but it's crazy. 32:02.581 --> 32:08.726 [SPEAKER_00]: You're in LA and you're like, you think like, Oh, we're in this most liberal open place and people thought for the longest time. 32:08.746 --> 32:09.546 [SPEAKER_00]: We were a force them. 32:09.946 --> 32:12.989 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, no, that's actually my ex husband. 32:13.129 --> 32:14.550 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, my partner and that's that. 32:15.591 --> 32:16.752 [SPEAKER_00]: So Michael and I. 32:18.433 --> 32:22.617 [SPEAKER_00]: So blessed, because we got to do a thing called IVF and gestational surrogacy. 32:23.077 --> 32:24.198 [SPEAKER_00]: We got 12 eggs. 32:24.818 --> 32:25.859 [SPEAKER_00]: I fertilized six. 32:26.040 --> 32:27.261 [SPEAKER_00]: He fertilized six. 32:27.621 --> 32:36.648 [SPEAKER_00]: We took my number A egg in his number A egg and transferred them into a gestational surrogate, AKA rent a womb. 32:37.029 --> 32:39.091 [SPEAKER_00]: We got a womb with a W. We got a suite of the W. 32:41.112 --> 32:48.743 [SPEAKER_00]: And we only, and I own in my Christian upbringing, right, to make it full circle, the doctor wanted to like fucking put all of them in. 32:48.763 --> 32:51.807 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, yeah, and then we'll just do selective reduction. 32:51.847 --> 32:56.334 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll just hose out the ones that are, you know, closest to the thing I was like, Oh, wow. 32:56.454 --> 32:57.435 [SPEAKER_00]: We won't. 32:58.036 --> 33:21.543 [SPEAKER_00]: We're putting two in and if it works awesome and if it doesn't awesome the blessing is not only did it work, but they both took and we literally have many me and many him when I tell you that they look all of looks just like his mother and Ella looks just like my mother and genetics or a real thing is all I could say. 33:21.883 --> 33:23.864 [SPEAKER_01]: That is so fucking cool. 33:24.164 --> 33:26.965 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also the W joke. 33:26.985 --> 33:31.387 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you repeat for the rest of your life because it really hits I'm a twin myself. 33:31.447 --> 33:34.748 [SPEAKER_01]: So I I really find it interesting to talk to a parent of twins. 33:35.129 --> 33:39.510 [SPEAKER_01]: What would you say being a gay parent of twins? 33:39.610 --> 33:45.693 [SPEAKER_01]: How has that affected your parenting and what would you say is like a big challenge from being the parent to twins? 33:46.350 --> 33:52.993 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, here I say something that's really beautiful about how our kids were conceived, right? 33:53.793 --> 33:58.676 [SPEAKER_00]: There's, you realize how unimportant blood is, right? 33:58.736 --> 34:06.279 [SPEAKER_00]: The idea that, you know, all of this is genetically connected to Michael and L.A. is genetically connected to me. 34:06.599 --> 34:08.240 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't make either one of them less. 34:08.840 --> 34:11.561 [SPEAKER_00]: our daughters and I rocked both of them at night. 34:11.781 --> 34:13.322 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was I had it down. 34:13.362 --> 34:14.022 [SPEAKER_00]: I was daddy. 34:14.062 --> 34:16.683 [SPEAKER_00]: I could feed both at the same time in the rocking chair. 34:16.703 --> 34:18.464 [SPEAKER_00]: I had it gone. 34:18.784 --> 34:23.446 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think I think, you know, having twins is tough. 34:24.342 --> 34:26.923 [SPEAKER_00]: to stop the comparison part, right? 34:26.943 --> 34:27.383 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 34:27.883 --> 34:29.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, look at her, she's done this. 34:30.183 --> 34:30.964 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, look at that. 34:31.084 --> 34:34.164 [SPEAKER_00]: And the comparisons, you have to remind yourself a lot. 34:34.284 --> 34:37.165 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to be like, no comparisons. 34:37.205 --> 34:39.406 [SPEAKER_00]: They're each individuals. 34:39.506 --> 34:39.786 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 34:39.986 --> 34:44.227 [SPEAKER_00]: We had birthdays, but each birthday, everyone got their own cake. 34:44.347 --> 34:47.307 [SPEAKER_00]: And we say happy birthday twice. 34:47.447 --> 34:50.868 [SPEAKER_00]: And the whole kitten cuboodle of being parents. 34:54.769 --> 35:05.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, my favorite story of all time though, it's 16 weeks of pregnancy, we go to the Perry Neetologist because you have to have that when you have when you're having twins, you know, it's a specialist, right? 35:06.558 --> 35:15.665 [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, he, he's doing the, the ultrasound and, and he, he's going to tell us the sex of the babies and he's like, I see, labia! 35:16.566 --> 35:20.187 [SPEAKER_00]: And I looked at each other and we were both like, what? 35:20.547 --> 35:21.747 [SPEAKER_00]: Labio, what the hell's that? 35:22.087 --> 35:23.268 [SPEAKER_00]: Labio, that he comes. 35:23.928 --> 35:26.228 [SPEAKER_00]: I see more Labio. 35:27.329 --> 35:29.509 [SPEAKER_01]: We would have held his stockter. 35:29.969 --> 35:32.370 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be really, I don't look at each other. 35:32.410 --> 35:34.230 [SPEAKER_00]: If you like Labio, Labio, right. 35:34.351 --> 35:35.371 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Labio, girls. 35:36.731 --> 35:44.619 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're having twin girls because I don't know if it was our our male like, you know, you know, masculinity. 35:44.899 --> 35:48.182 [SPEAKER_00]: We were like, oh, we're going to have boys and we know how to rate. 35:48.222 --> 35:50.484 [SPEAKER_00]: We know how to raise boys, you know, the boys. 35:51.005 --> 35:54.688 [SPEAKER_00]: And then God's like, no, no, no, you're getting girls. 35:54.969 --> 35:58.232 [SPEAKER_00]: And not just girls, you're going to get a girly girl in a hardcore lesbian. 35:58.852 --> 36:02.173 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let me take you on that journey, baby. 36:02.634 --> 36:15.618 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, David, I know that you are behind the camera, but where's the reality show of the gay divorce says who have a punk rock lesbian and a girly girl daughter, and also can we get that doctor in there? 36:15.638 --> 36:20.340 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm getting like, I don't know like a John Favreau in a big white coat. 36:20.560 --> 36:22.801 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll talk in about Labia, really hits. 36:25.602 --> 36:32.444 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also kind of hilarious to me that two grown men could not place Labia immediately, and that's a testament to your homosexuality. 36:32.524 --> 36:41.226 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to say, we were indeed, you said Labia, Labia, Labia, did she perform at beaches? 36:43.387 --> 36:45.647 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that's really gorgeous. 36:45.667 --> 36:50.448 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, I love the idea that you are a modern family. 36:51.389 --> 36:52.929 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the mommy reference? 36:53.409 --> 36:59.871 [SPEAKER_00]: So when we got we got to work when they were pretty young, you know, I used to joke. 36:59.891 --> 37:01.051 [SPEAKER_00]: We were we were the poster. 37:01.291 --> 37:05.552 [SPEAKER_00]: We were the homosexual version of the heterosexual couple who tried to save their marriage through having kids. 37:05.892 --> 37:06.132 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 37:06.212 --> 37:07.632 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not that's not really true. 37:07.672 --> 37:13.934 [SPEAKER_00]: We we'd always wanted kids and we got pregnant and and and look the years of queer eye the original queer eye. 37:14.714 --> 37:15.934 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty intense, right? 37:16.014 --> 37:17.495 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was traveling the world. 37:17.535 --> 37:23.256 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of money and change in fame and things happening all on that and we went through a lot. 37:23.276 --> 37:25.076 [SPEAKER_00]: And what we could talk about that on the other side. 37:25.116 --> 37:25.936 [SPEAKER_00]: But I will say this. 37:27.177 --> 37:34.658 [SPEAKER_00]: We learned that, oh, new partners coming in and how we were going to introduce them or not introduce them. 37:35.639 --> 37:37.379 [SPEAKER_00]: Joe, take it to my life. 37:38.019 --> 37:40.822 [SPEAKER_00]: And somehow or another, like, within, I'm a kid of you. 37:40.882 --> 37:42.523 [SPEAKER_00]: It was in like the first three weeks. 37:43.044 --> 37:47.768 [SPEAKER_00]: They started doing a joke where they would go, mama, mama, and he would pick them up. 37:47.828 --> 37:54.233 [SPEAKER_00]: And they were only like two and a half, three years old, and somehow another mama turned into mommy. 37:55.194 --> 37:57.216 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the beauty of this story. 37:57.936 --> 37:59.958 [SPEAKER_00]: They are now almost 18 years old. 38:00.739 --> 38:02.820 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Daddy, Michael's Pata. 38:03.521 --> 38:20.456 [SPEAKER_00]: show is mommy and there's Jim daddy pop a mommy and Jim and Ellen Olive and all of us I caught we all call pop a Papa everyone calls mommy mommy everyone calls me daddy and and then Jim and that's what I think I 38:21.877 --> 38:48.482 [SPEAKER_01]: can't tell you how much I love that because there's a few levels of it not only is it just like the power of a respectful co-parenting and treating someone that you were with for so many years as a human, as someone who is not an adversary of yours, but also I think that you're taking away the straight judgments of what happens when divorce happens, what happens when you get new partners 38:49.282 --> 39:07.880 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to reference a friend quickly which is that a friend of mine is in this like beautiful marriage and they're not exactly sexually compatible like in like the classic way but they have so much their values are aligned there's so much in common they've got a beautiful relationship and then of course they hook up with other people outside of it and they keep it all communicated great. 39:08.300 --> 39:25.885 [SPEAKER_01]: But when I first heard this, I was really gagged by the lack of self-consciousness that they had about it because we sometimes view things through a straight lens, but your family doesn't have to worry about that because it is self-sufficient and it is working the way that it has been built organically. 39:25.965 --> 39:32.747 [SPEAKER_01]: And I like to say fuck off to the heteronormative ideals or judgments that we sometimes compare ourselves to because 39:33.187 --> 39:38.331 [SPEAKER_01]: your family has made it work in such a beautiful queer way that is just so delicious to hear David. 39:38.351 --> 39:40.333 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to thank you for apologizing that. 39:41.153 --> 39:49.300 [SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate that because you know, when they were little going down the grocery, you know, in the grocery and in the kid to be like, mommy mommy mommy. 39:49.340 --> 39:49.500 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. 39:49.560 --> 39:50.821 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's then Joe walked up. 39:51.041 --> 39:54.684 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's Latin there going down the going down the center. 39:55.044 --> 39:57.226 [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone's like, where's mommy? 39:57.446 --> 39:58.447 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's mommy, right? 39:58.907 --> 40:00.008 [SPEAKER_01]: Mommy's got a five o'clock 40:05.492 --> 40:17.142 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so good and you're giving us a lot of easter eggs for the other side, so I'm going to get us there, but first we have to ask the final podcast question before we cross over and David Collins, it's a tough one for you. 40:17.242 --> 40:23.888 [SPEAKER_01]: That question is if the world was ending and you could only save one character act. 40:24.188 --> 40:26.330 [SPEAKER_01]: Who would you save? 40:26.930 --> 40:28.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so here's the thing. 40:30.125 --> 40:33.067 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, the one that I want to say is not a character. 40:33.147 --> 40:34.568 [SPEAKER_00]: I just because she's an icon. 40:34.968 --> 40:35.168 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:35.188 --> 40:39.650 [SPEAKER_00]: But the movie and her character in it. 40:40.671 --> 40:52.917 [SPEAKER_00]: And the the co star character are kind of where I would I would say I might I would go for instantly and that is Elizabeth Taylor and Sandy Dennis from. 40:54.018 --> 40:56.019 [SPEAKER_00]: who's afraid of Virginia wolf. 40:56.839 --> 41:12.086 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have not seen who's afraid of Virginia wolf light from beginning to end and watched the performance of four actors who get drunk all from from 10 PM at night until the sun rises. 41:12.407 --> 41:16.388 [SPEAKER_00]: You have your heart ripped out and shredded into a 41:22.411 --> 41:43.268 [SPEAKER_01]: But the scenes are just magical and so Liz Taylor and Sandy Dennis would be would be the ones you know what it's a delicious answer because you probably are going to create some discourse with a guy in a comment being like he's not a lizard with Taylor, but you know what she has played so many characters, but also I have seen. 41:43.588 --> 41:50.134 [SPEAKER_01]: So Virginia Woolf has actually had a weird part of my upbringing because I've not only seen the movie, but I got to see a revival in New York. 41:51.215 --> 41:53.176 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Tracy let's was in it. 41:53.437 --> 42:01.604 [SPEAKER_01]: There was like it was it was an amazing production, but I think there's something about that play in that movie in particular that speaks to queer people because. 42:02.304 --> 42:08.465 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, how many of us have witnessed like fucked up fights and parents and relationships? 42:08.525 --> 42:18.867 [SPEAKER_01]: There's also like, I think Elizabeth Taylor is obviously one of the most vocal gay queer rights advocates. 42:19.628 --> 42:28.429 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to go to a Halloween party recently where and it's like beautiful LA home and the guy that like runs the kitchen there would bring in 42:31.970 --> 42:38.834 [SPEAKER_01]: And I got to eat Elizabeth Taylor's chili and even in that game moment, I felt chills go down my spine. 42:38.874 --> 42:40.095 [SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing. 42:40.255 --> 42:57.505 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think David that the answer is so incredible and you have given us hit after hit after hit on this gay ass podcast and yet the hits continue before we officially go put that paywall up will you tell these stunning listeners where to follow you and there's anything else you would like for them to know 42:58.505 --> 42:59.145 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no. 42:59.185 --> 42:59.465 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 42:59.625 --> 43:01.886 [SPEAKER_00]: So sure on on Instagram. 43:02.026 --> 43:04.886 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm style-taste and class, but here's what's kind of cool. 43:04.906 --> 43:05.966 [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening right now? 43:07.307 --> 43:11.067 [SPEAKER_00]: Instagram sound that at David Collins is available. 43:11.427 --> 43:15.888 [SPEAKER_00]: So I am going to go from style-taste and class to at David Collins. 43:16.708 --> 43:17.048 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 43:29.251 --> 43:41.917 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea where the hell that came from or how I got name where I died on TikTok, but I am and scout productions in .com is always great because you can see the plethora of shows that we've made. 43:42.807 --> 44:12.388 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for referencing that because over on sub stack I'm going to bring up an interaction I have with one of the stars on one of your shows so that's a little bit of a tease there but everybody go follow David go check out scout productions clear i daddy on tick talk is such an app's name uh and i know that all these listeners have felt very grateful that you David have been so open so funny so vulnerable so thank you for for being here but i do need to give these paid subscribers their money is worth and that's why 44:12.548 --> 44:28.692 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to start with, we're going to start with a question that I think they're all wanting to know about, which is that first boy boy kiss, the summer before you were expelled for two weeks, and then you go to New York. 44:28.832 --> 44:31.793 [SPEAKER_01]: What are your memories from that formative experience? 44:31.973 --> 44:37.534 [SPEAKER_01]: Or are there any other formative sort of first that you feel like you would like for us to know? 44:38.522 --> 44:52.977 [SPEAKER_00]: My memory of that first kiss, he was a diver on the diving team and we had all he had done by getting expelled for going to the zoo and by the way, I had smoked my first joint in that moment. 44:53.037 --> 44:55.659 [SPEAKER_00]: So we smoked to joint and went to the zoo. 44:56.280 --> 45:03.406 [SPEAKER_00]: right, and I had this amazing, well, we end up back at his house at like early afternoon, right? 45:03.426 --> 45:09.292 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we want to talk and he's like, I'm really tired and I was like, I'm really tired. 45:09.892 --> 45:18.180 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we both dove into the bed at the same time, and I'll never forget his hand landing on top of mine. 45:19.737 --> 45:28.982 [SPEAKER_00]: and feeling that like, you the energy between our bodies just, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. 45:29.002 --> 45:32.604 [SPEAKER_00]: And neither one of us, like my head this way in his head's that way. 45:32.624 --> 45:39.668 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can remember like just feeling ourselves slowly turn our heads towards each other. 45:40.708 --> 45:42.709 [SPEAKER_00]: and looking into each other's eyes. 45:43.289 --> 45:57.436 [SPEAKER_01]: And for the rest of the interview, head to sub-stack linked below where you will also find chats with Colin Braun, Rich Burns, Christopher Patterson Rosso, Tyler Varval, Sebastian Dino, Cody Silver, Johnny Sibly, Sam Altizer, and more. 45:57.896 --> 46:05.059 [SPEAKER_01]: It's at sub-stack.com slash at Eric Wills, and I will see you there for a gorgeous, Harry Horney time. 46:05.079 --> 46:06.060 [SPEAKER_01]: I love you, bye.