WEBVTT 00:03.796 --> 00:06.757 [SPEAKER_00]: our press secretary gave all turn to the facts to that. 00:06.777 --> 00:16.539 [SPEAKER_01]: My goal in this definition was to be crucial, but not particularly helpful. 00:16.839 --> 00:20.219 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Unspon, the podcast that makes you better at finding the truth. 00:21.000 --> 00:22.440 [SPEAKER_03]: The way people get news is changing. 00:23.300 --> 00:32.342 [SPEAKER_03]: It used to be that there were many reporters who would research stories and write articles, but now politicians and famous people share information directly with you on social media and the internet. 00:33.182 --> 00:37.946 [SPEAKER_03]: That means you find out things fast, but it's up to you to make sure the information is actually accurate. 00:38.626 --> 00:40.347 [SPEAKER_03]: And newsmakers don't always do their part. 00:40.768 --> 00:43.310 [SPEAKER_03]: The temptation to manipulate information is strong. 00:43.970 --> 00:48.974 [SPEAKER_03]: They bend the truth to deceive so that they can avoid accountability, so that they can advance their agendas. 00:49.434 --> 00:52.536 [SPEAKER_03]: When you recognize these agendas, you can sometimes find out what's real. 00:53.097 --> 00:59.281 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're at a crossroads where anyone can share anything online, so it's important to sharpen your critical thinking skills. 01:00.142 --> 01:04.810 [SPEAKER_03]: Finding that deception before it goes viral is pretty much a survival skill now, and we're going to do it together. 01:05.231 --> 01:06.032 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's get on fun. 01:10.457 --> 01:13.600 [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Drew's Seekers, and welcome to this week's episode of Unspun. 01:14.480 --> 01:18.103 [SPEAKER_03]: This week, I'm going to do something a little bit different, and we're going to have a review. 01:18.904 --> 01:29.173 [SPEAKER_03]: That is because there were major elections happening either recently or upcoming in a lot of places where I have listeners, and one thing that is characteristic of elections recently is a lot of misinformation. 01:30.053 --> 01:38.360 [SPEAKER_03]: For example, I am recording this on Monday, October 26, 26, and yesterday was a presidential election in Brazil. 01:39.281 --> 01:55.251 [SPEAKER_03]: In that election, one of the candidates, Louise and Nassio Lula de Silva, his campaign accused Mehta, the company that owns Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp, of favoring the campaign of Flavia Bolsonaro, with a combination of AI restrictions and algorithmic bias. 01:56.252 --> 02:01.896 [SPEAKER_03]: This was not just mud slinging, Brazil's electoral court weighed in and ruled that the company had to be fair. 02:02.856 --> 02:11.402 [SPEAKER_03]: So, I think it's probably good to say that it can be difficult for us as people who need information to get that information in an accurate way. 02:11.982 --> 02:25.371 [SPEAKER_03]: In particular, when campaigns are losing or have lost, we have seen many examples over the last few years of the losing party throwing out this information to try to get an election overturned, whether by legal means or by a mob. 02:25.931 --> 02:29.552 [SPEAKER_03]: and I am worried that we are going to see more of this in the coming weeks. 02:30.392 --> 02:38.815 [SPEAKER_03]: For this reason, I just wanted to do a review show that would help you remember the skills to identify sketchy information so that you do not fall victim to it. 02:39.415 --> 02:39.835 [SPEAKER_03]: Sound good? 02:40.736 --> 02:41.536 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's get on spun. 02:42.996 --> 02:44.597 [SPEAKER_03]: First up is verifying your evidence. 02:44.897 --> 02:47.458 [SPEAKER_03]: And honestly, that starts by using multiple sources. 02:48.527 --> 02:56.356 [SPEAKER_03]: As we've learned here on Unspun, wealthy people will try to increase their power and to maintain their wealth in several ways, one of these is by buying media outlets. 02:57.718 --> 03:02.584 [SPEAKER_03]: What that means is that it may be more difficult to just rely on the name brand of news and information. 03:03.044 --> 03:07.730 [SPEAKER_03]: In other words, the new station that your parents watched may not be the best source of information anymore. 03:08.275 --> 03:20.920 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's really unfortunate because there was a time when we could have something called source credibility that would tell us that a news outlet gives good information as long as we look to that outlet, we'd be okay, but that is much less true now. 03:21.600 --> 03:32.185 [SPEAKER_03]: There are many reasons for this, including collapsing media ownership, the loss of journalists just to do stories and the way the people now find news, which is taken far out of its original context. 03:33.005 --> 03:41.227 [SPEAKER_03]: So, although we can't necessarily rely on just a single source for information, fortunately, we do still have multiple choices for the information that we need. 03:41.747 --> 03:45.308 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would really recommend that you have a news diet that is varied. 03:45.728 --> 03:46.489 [SPEAKER_03]: What do I mean by that? 03:46.989 --> 03:50.790 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you probably have news outlets that you think are good and reliable, and that can be true. 03:51.570 --> 03:58.392 [SPEAKER_03]: And you may be more likely to rate a news outlet as good and reliable if it has a slint on news that you already believe. 03:59.172 --> 04:06.174 [SPEAKER_03]: So I would encourage you to check stories from different perspectives, multiple perspectives on the same story, and this can be hard to do. 04:06.634 --> 04:07.054 [SPEAKER_03]: I know that. 04:07.835 --> 04:16.337 [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes when I'm reading something from a perspective, I don't agree with, I'm boggled because it seems ignorant or I'm angry because it seems manipulative. 04:16.977 --> 04:20.078 [SPEAKER_03]: But there are many good reasons to get your news from multiple sources. 04:21.161 --> 04:28.305 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if you have a hard time swallowing information that comes in a political wrapper that you hate, you can think all the way back to the art of war. 04:28.745 --> 04:32.507 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, where we learned that you have a better chance of fighting things that you understand. 04:32.967 --> 04:37.330 [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, that advice goes that you should know your opponent's positions better than they do. 04:37.890 --> 04:40.711 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's something practical to this very news diet. 04:41.792 --> 04:46.015 [SPEAKER_03]: There's more than just political perspective, who's also a geographical perspective. 04:46.595 --> 04:48.677 [SPEAKER_03]: Local news can just be hard to find now. 04:49.217 --> 04:50.078 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll give you an example. 04:50.798 --> 04:59.684 [SPEAKER_03]: I live in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and surprisingly, even though we're only about a 25-minute drive from the state capital, I find Chapel Hill to be a bit of a news desert. 05:00.425 --> 05:04.367 [SPEAKER_03]: We do have a radio station which covers some news, although it seems to be mostly sports. 05:04.988 --> 05:07.789 [SPEAKER_03]: We have an independent news site which has a strong political slant. 05:09.070 --> 05:11.872 [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone's in a wild capital city media will cover something here. 05:12.252 --> 05:19.676 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, usually sports related, but honestly, the best source of information on local government is the student newspaper at the University of North Carolina. 05:20.497 --> 05:26.220 [SPEAKER_03]: The university has a journalism program and their newspaper does cover public affairs for some of the cities in the county where I live. 05:26.980 --> 05:32.964 [SPEAKER_03]: So if I want to know what is going on here, I will probably need to have multiple levels of new sources I can look at. 05:33.804 --> 05:35.065 [SPEAKER_03]: And I encourage you to do that, too. 05:36.014 --> 05:38.757 [SPEAKER_03]: Alternative and independent news media outlets can be helpful. 05:39.178 --> 05:40.899 [SPEAKER_03]: Independent journalists can be helpful. 05:41.380 --> 05:46.706 [SPEAKER_03]: In my state, if you really want to know what's going on in the capital, independent journalists are some of the best sources now. 05:48.354 --> 05:54.018 [SPEAKER_03]: So what this really means to seekers is that I can start with a source, but pretty quickly I need to go to the evidence. 05:54.599 --> 05:57.301 [SPEAKER_03]: That means evaluating the news on an item by item basis. 05:58.161 --> 06:02.185 [SPEAKER_03]: Am I a little sad that it is now up to me is the audience to make those judgments? 06:02.705 --> 06:03.706 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I really am. 06:04.386 --> 06:05.907 [SPEAKER_03]: However, it is the way it is. 06:06.668 --> 06:08.769 [SPEAKER_03]: So what can you do to evaluate those news items? 06:09.590 --> 06:12.472 [SPEAKER_03]: One thing you can do is look for the source that the news source used. 06:12.913 --> 06:14.114 [SPEAKER_03]: Are they using government data? 06:14.574 --> 06:15.715 [SPEAKER_03]: Are they using court records? 06:16.135 --> 06:16.936 [SPEAKER_03]: What is that source? 06:17.629 --> 06:20.211 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's a good example from US history in 2020. 06:21.231 --> 06:30.777 [SPEAKER_03]: After the election was called for Joe Biden here in the US, there was a large legal effort to try to get the election reconsidered or invalidated or given to Donald Trump instead. 06:31.677 --> 06:37.741 [SPEAKER_03]: And one thing that was very interesting was that the source of information for people filing lawsuits for Donald Trump, 06:38.622 --> 06:40.083 [SPEAKER_03]: was primarily affidavits. 06:40.623 --> 06:47.506 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, affidavits are people telling a story and swearing that story is true to the court and they definitely do have value in our court system. 06:48.186 --> 06:52.208 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's not the same kind of evidence that something like video recordings might be. 06:53.069 --> 07:00.672 [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, it seems like they were relying on testimony from people who didn't have the knowledge to interpret the things that they were seeing during election counts. 07:01.811 --> 07:03.251 [SPEAKER_03]: that type of information can matter. 07:04.112 --> 07:09.093 [SPEAKER_03]: If someone is presented as an expert, it's important to consider whether they actually have that expertise. 07:09.754 --> 07:16.676 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, is a poll watcher from earlier enough with what would normally happen at an election to be able to judge that something was wrong? 07:17.376 --> 07:21.558 [SPEAKER_03]: Or in the same way, is someone who is an eye doctor qualified to give opinions on nutrition? 07:21.638 --> 07:22.778 [SPEAKER_03]: How about a health influencer? 07:23.431 --> 07:27.658 [SPEAKER_03]: is having a large platform, the same as being well informed and qualified. 07:28.339 --> 07:32.606 [SPEAKER_03]: These are things that you can ask yourself as you look at the experts who are being cited. 07:33.958 --> 07:40.162 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the next item is a big ask, and I don't know that many people will really take the time to do this, but it is very useful. 07:41.043 --> 07:43.925 [SPEAKER_03]: That is to look at original documents and public records. 07:44.865 --> 07:54.491 [SPEAKER_03]: I was recently watching a video of a comedian, and he was interviewing people when US President Donald Trump was impeached, but not convicted, for offering a quid pro quo to the President of Ukraine. 07:55.392 --> 07:59.455 [SPEAKER_03]: Many of the people who were interviewed said all you had to do was read the transcript. 07:59.495 --> 08:01.036 [SPEAKER_03]: It was almost like a mantra at the time. 08:01.716 --> 08:04.818 [SPEAKER_03]: but the comedian asked them have you read the transcript and none of them had. 08:05.618 --> 08:09.020 [SPEAKER_03]: And that transcript was publicly available, and they didn't look at it. 08:09.760 --> 08:13.062 [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm here to tell you, it can be worth your time to look at original sources. 08:13.842 --> 08:20.746 [SPEAKER_03]: Many times, journals will actually publish links to those original sources, either from social media or within something like a newsletter. 08:21.346 --> 08:24.268 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's worth it to click through and see if it says what they're claiming. 08:25.528 --> 08:34.080 [SPEAKER_03]: Especially with AI-generated text, it can offer citations and links to documents, and sometimes you can follow those links and they are not at all what the tool is claiming. 08:35.682 --> 08:38.907 [SPEAKER_03]: Going back to original sources and clicking those links can be really helpful. 08:40.085 --> 08:44.528 [SPEAKER_03]: The last thing I'd say about verification is that you have to be careful about photographs in videos. 08:45.328 --> 08:50.151 [SPEAKER_03]: I've discussed on on-spun before how video presentation is extra convincing to people. 08:50.812 --> 08:55.935 [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know about you, but right now my online life is a gem packed with AI-generated advertising. 08:57.050 --> 09:02.853 [SPEAKER_03]: I think AI generation is also showing up in things like political advertising and even in people's social media posts. 09:03.774 --> 09:05.695 [SPEAKER_03]: They can look pretty good and that is a problem. 09:06.535 --> 09:10.838 [SPEAKER_03]: It's where the first thing we talked about, getting information from multiple sources can really matter. 09:11.718 --> 09:15.340 [SPEAKER_03]: Also, the photos and videos remember that don't always tell the whole story. 09:16.281 --> 09:23.765 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't episode on coverage of protests and I talked about how the news photos that come out will be of the things that are the most visually interesting or scandalous. 09:24.655 --> 09:40.782 [SPEAKER_03]: Just last week, I saw some coverage of protests in France and a lot of the videos and pictures showed that were things on fire and people were running and throwing things, but there were also a couple of them showed that although these things were happening, there were also people sitting nearby at a cafe or even going for a run through the area. 09:41.663 --> 09:46.085 [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, the protests were there and they were happening, but maybe they were not actually that disruptive. 09:47.503 --> 09:51.126 [SPEAKER_03]: My point is, you should not assume that photos and videos tell the whole story. 09:51.987 --> 09:56.630 [SPEAKER_03]: Even just comparing a photo to a map to see how much of an area is being shown can be very helpful. 09:58.572 --> 10:04.517 [SPEAKER_03]: I need to take a quick break, but when I come back, we'll look at some of the persuasive techniques that people use to try to spread misinformation. 10:05.558 --> 10:06.258 [SPEAKER_03]: I will be right back. 10:12.624 --> 10:13.084 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back. 10:13.902 --> 10:29.620 [SPEAKER_03]: So we've talked a little bit about specific verification techniques and now I'd like to do a little review of some of the ways that people will try to use persuasion to influence what you think a big one is by offering a false choice one example might be that we can either 10:31.256 --> 10:37.563 [SPEAKER_03]: Support business and have a robust economy, or we can regulate business, and protect the environment, but lose a bunch of jobs. 10:38.604 --> 10:44.530 [SPEAKER_03]: The problem with this false choices is that there's usually not really evidence to show that those are the only two choices. 10:46.261 --> 10:49.103 [SPEAKER_03]: often there could be other things that could be possible outcomes, right? 10:49.463 --> 10:54.826 [SPEAKER_03]: So for example, environmental protection measures could offer opportunities for new businesses and new jobs. 10:55.747 --> 11:01.070 [SPEAKER_03]: Another example could be that we have to tolerate being recorded in public because if we don't, we will all be victims of crime. 11:01.931 --> 11:04.553 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, this does not have to be in either or situation. 11:05.213 --> 11:12.658 [SPEAKER_03]: You could fail to record people in public but invest money in deterrence other ways through architecture or increase policing or something like that. 11:13.630 --> 11:14.450 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's another example. 11:15.011 --> 11:19.793 [SPEAKER_03]: A speaker might act like there is a choice between total economic lockdowns or virus spread. 11:20.393 --> 11:26.496 [SPEAKER_03]: We saw people making these arguments during the pandemic, but really, you can't have a healthy economy without healthy people, right? 11:27.277 --> 11:31.279 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, there can be a middle ground, but speakers will act like it is not that way. 11:32.644 --> 11:36.625 [SPEAKER_03]: Another strategy people will use to persuade is by using very particular language. 11:37.546 --> 11:41.307 [SPEAKER_03]: Right now, I feel like this is especially done in the name of tribalism. 11:41.847 --> 11:49.450 [SPEAKER_03]: Whether you call people progressives and conservatives or you call them soyboys and Nazis, this kind of meaning names are carrying a lot of information in them. 11:50.050 --> 11:51.611 [SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't even have to just be personal. 11:52.411 --> 12:04.657 [SPEAKER_03]: I did an episode for example on the phrase law in order and how using that phrase is often coded language for policing minorities, just like family values is often coded language for being against LGBTQIA people. 12:05.498 --> 12:08.299 [SPEAKER_03]: It's useful to pay attention to the language that lawmakers are using. 12:09.460 --> 12:17.804 [SPEAKER_03]: Something else they try is to make very vague statements or to try to get out of responsibility for having said something bad by claiming they were just joking. 12:18.624 --> 12:19.545 [SPEAKER_03]: They can also use language 12:22.787 --> 12:27.730 [SPEAKER_03]: The kind of clickbait headlines that you might see on social media will also show up in politicians speech. 12:28.391 --> 12:34.495 [SPEAKER_03]: You can see things where ordinary mistakes which do happen are treated as if they are deliberate plots to repress people. 12:35.595 --> 12:39.416 [SPEAKER_03]: I think in my own state of North Carolina, where we do require voter ID to vote. 12:39.877 --> 12:46.599 [SPEAKER_03]: And if one poll worker forgets to ask for voter ID for one voter, does that mean that they are trying to let people who are not citizens vote? 12:47.399 --> 12:48.780 [SPEAKER_03]: Or does it just mean they made a mistake? 12:49.880 --> 12:57.883 [SPEAKER_03]: Whenever someone is trying to assign intent to another person, that can be a clue that you need to consider why they are saying things the way that they are. 12:59.240 --> 13:05.461 [SPEAKER_03]: And generally speaking, it's a good idea to pay attention to the way that the information you are taking in makes you feel. 13:06.362 --> 13:13.623 [SPEAKER_03]: Generating anger and fear is certainly a common tactic, particularly for people who are more authoritarian, but they can use other emotions as well. 13:14.504 --> 13:21.105 [SPEAKER_03]: They're trying to sometimes get people to support them by promising they will make that person's enemy in their enemy. 13:21.865 --> 13:25.086 [SPEAKER_03]: And they will take care of something that is resulting in you being treated badly. 13:26.875 --> 13:30.119 [SPEAKER_03]: Then, can they feel like they're attack on someone is actually your vindication? 13:30.139 --> 13:32.722 [SPEAKER_03]: And the feeling you get might be satisfaction or joy? 13:32.742 --> 13:37.287 [SPEAKER_03]: There are some politicians who are very good at heartwarming and happy social media. 13:37.767 --> 13:39.970 [SPEAKER_03]: This can also be a tactic to win your support. 13:41.031 --> 13:45.997 [SPEAKER_03]: When you feel like they're so nice or good, they may hope that you are less likely to try to criticize their actions. 13:47.125 --> 13:52.487 [SPEAKER_03]: And then one of the things that you can do is pay attention to not just the answers, but also the questions. 13:53.007 --> 13:56.149 [SPEAKER_03]: That is because politicians will try to hijack the conversation. 13:56.689 --> 14:01.731 [SPEAKER_03]: They will try to not talk about issues that are difficult for them, but switching to a topic that they feel stronger on. 14:03.207 --> 14:12.134 [SPEAKER_03]: For example, here in the U.S., a politician might not want to talk about foreign policy that they don't know very much about, so they might want to change it to a culture or issue like sexuality. 14:12.954 --> 14:22.101 [SPEAKER_03]: All of this strategy is going to help to make it more difficult for you to understand what politicians actually need, and the important thing is that you have them in mind when you go to look for the news. 14:22.782 --> 14:30.888 [SPEAKER_03]: Knowing for example, that you can be emotionally manipulated can help you recognize when someone's trying to do that, and just that recognition helps make you more resistant. 14:32.508 --> 14:34.229 [SPEAKER_03]: Now we need to talk about the news itself. 14:34.949 --> 14:39.371 [SPEAKER_03]: Although it's tempted to think that any presentation of the news is just facts, that's not really true. 14:40.332 --> 14:42.273 [SPEAKER_03]: Any type of information has a bias to it. 14:42.693 --> 14:50.417 [SPEAKER_03]: But the information that you see as cold news is likely biased, not only from the information source, but also by the channel on which you get it. 14:51.077 --> 14:56.700 [SPEAKER_03]: Those algorithmic sorting schemes on websites and in social media definitely affect how you understand the world. 14:57.200 --> 15:01.243 [SPEAKER_03]: And if I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, news companies are businesses. 15:01.783 --> 15:05.785 [SPEAKER_03]: The purpose of a business is to make money, and that's really important to remember. 15:06.425 --> 15:14.830 [SPEAKER_03]: They may have a secondary interest in conveying accurate or honest information, but first of all, they need to keep your eyeballs on the page so that they can sell that access to you. 15:15.691 --> 15:19.353 [SPEAKER_03]: It's very, very important to remember because it affects what stories get covered. 15:20.233 --> 15:26.216 [SPEAKER_03]: news outlets will cover stories not so much based on how relevant they are, but more on what they think is going to attract the audience. 15:27.097 --> 15:33.660 [SPEAKER_03]: And remember, if you're listening to unspun, you probably care about and use a lot of media, but many people are not that way. 15:34.580 --> 15:39.323 [SPEAKER_03]: Because the news is a business, they can select parts of the audience that they want their information to be for. 15:39.983 --> 15:44.205 [SPEAKER_03]: So you may have a site or an influencer who is for moms who are concerned 15:47.787 --> 15:53.129 [SPEAKER_03]: in a feed that helps workers who feel like their employers are taking advantage of them. 15:54.029 --> 16:01.172 [SPEAKER_03]: In a fractured media environment, it can be like people are living in completely different realities because of the way that information is presented to them. 16:02.352 --> 16:09.295 [SPEAKER_03]: This is important when you are both understanding the blinders that other people have, but also for you with your own perspective on things. 16:10.350 --> 16:18.954 [SPEAKER_03]: It can be kind of shocking to find out that something you think everybody is talking about because you saw it a lot online, you will not find many people talking about it all in your real life. 16:19.634 --> 16:21.895 [SPEAKER_03]: And this has implications for how you can use the news. 16:22.875 --> 16:29.358 [SPEAKER_03]: One is that online influencers who are also essentially businesses with a goal to make money also need to keep you looking at their content. 16:30.018 --> 16:38.764 [SPEAKER_03]: They do this by seeming like they are your friend, and that sense of familiarity can get through online media, can make influencers better able to persuade you. 16:39.524 --> 16:43.927 [SPEAKER_03]: Even if they have a real bias or even if they are not experts on the thing they are posting about. 16:44.527 --> 16:48.270 [SPEAKER_03]: Just remember, because someone is likable does not mean that they are accurate. 16:49.711 --> 16:57.956 [SPEAKER_03]: I need to take another very quick break, but when I return, I will wrap it up by looking at how you can evaluate your own thinking and very importantly how you can talk to other people. 17:03.253 --> 17:03.753 [SPEAKER_03]: welcome back. 17:05.314 --> 17:10.115 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's important for us to remember that you have choices when it comes to the information that you get. 17:10.815 --> 17:14.016 [SPEAKER_03]: And the more you can remember that you are making choices, the better off you're going to be. 17:14.676 --> 17:22.738 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we've already talked about how you might want to believe something because you identify with the person saying it, or you might want to not believe it because you don't like the person who's saying it. 17:23.559 --> 17:26.579 [SPEAKER_03]: But the thing to look for in yourself is why you are believing something. 17:27.200 --> 17:28.680 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it because it came from someone you know? 17:32.421 --> 17:41.330 [SPEAKER_03]: you can compare what you're taking in with evidence to be a better thinker and in particular you don't want to confuse being loyal to a group with using good judgment. 17:42.131 --> 17:47.497 [SPEAKER_03]: If you're a staunch conservative, that does not mean that a progressive may not have good ideas and the reverse would also be true. 17:48.417 --> 17:54.584 [SPEAKER_03]: You want to be careful that you don't disregard good information because of some ideological purity test. 17:55.683 --> 18:00.165 [SPEAKER_03]: Newsmakers will sometimes present their ideas to you that way, but you need to not let them. 18:01.165 --> 18:05.086 [SPEAKER_03]: What other thing that can happen is confusing something you see a lot with something being true. 18:05.827 --> 18:09.948 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a special problem on social media where people are able to reshare ideas freely. 18:10.729 --> 18:17.111 [SPEAKER_03]: So a bad or incorrect idea can be just said once, but because people reshare it, you can end up seeing it many times. 18:18.660 --> 18:24.164 [SPEAKER_03]: know that you already have a cognitive bias that will make you want to assume that because you've seen it a lot it must be true. 18:24.965 --> 18:28.868 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, a little triangulation back to a source for evidence can be really helpful here. 18:29.628 --> 18:31.970 [SPEAKER_03]: You can also be careful about your own social media use. 18:33.531 --> 18:37.894 [SPEAKER_03]: In particular, pay attention to whether the information you are getting is all saying the same things. 18:39.195 --> 18:42.017 [SPEAKER_03]: You leave back to the start of the episode when we talked about having that very 18:44.334 --> 18:51.296 [SPEAKER_03]: And ultimately, two secrets are really did want to talk a little bit about what you can do to help other people not fall prey to misinformation, either. 18:52.256 --> 18:54.296 [SPEAKER_03]: You have to be very delicate about this. 18:55.117 --> 19:00.258 [SPEAKER_03]: Just today, I saw a Facebook post from someone I used to work with that didn't seem to me like it was accurate. 19:00.818 --> 19:05.019 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I made the effort to go and find news articles about the topic from a reliable source. 19:06.119 --> 19:07.439 [SPEAKER_03]: What did I do with this information? 19:07.479 --> 19:09.020 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I will tell you what I did not do. 19:09.500 --> 19:12.020 [SPEAKER_03]: I did not take this information and post a reply 19:14.905 --> 19:19.328 [SPEAKER_03]: There may be times when I would do this, but you have to consider the impact on the person who shared it. 19:20.068 --> 19:22.430 [SPEAKER_03]: If you're correct in them, it's going to make them look foolish. 19:22.790 --> 19:26.132 [SPEAKER_03]: That can actually cause them to become more resistant to good information. 19:26.853 --> 19:32.737 [SPEAKER_03]: This person is not someone I interact with a lot, so we have that kind of loose tie that Facebook was good at preserving for people. 19:33.537 --> 19:41.101 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure I have enough credibility with her to correct her at this point, so although I am not following for the misinformation myself, I'm just letting this one go. 19:41.942 --> 19:43.743 [SPEAKER_03]: And you two can choose your battles. 19:44.603 --> 19:47.925 [SPEAKER_03]: The most important thing to remember is that you cannot change someone's mind. 19:48.445 --> 19:51.887 [SPEAKER_03]: The best you can do is create conditions in which they might change at themselves. 19:53.434 --> 19:56.557 [SPEAKER_03]: This works the best with people that you have a good relationship with. 19:57.539 --> 20:04.466 [SPEAKER_03]: If you see a source that you like and trust, resharing something from that source is very unlikely to convince people who see your feed. 20:05.447 --> 20:10.373 [SPEAKER_03]: Because when you share it, it makes it sound like you're saying that they are not careful with their information. 20:11.294 --> 20:13.256 [SPEAKER_03]: This immediately throws up that defensive wall. 20:13.396 --> 20:14.577 [SPEAKER_03]: So here's what you can do instead. 20:15.645 --> 20:18.010 [SPEAKER_03]: You can model what I think of as my three question policy. 20:18.490 --> 20:23.540 [SPEAKER_03]: When you see a piece of information and you're wondering if it's true, you can start by asking yourself three questions. 20:24.402 --> 20:26.987 [SPEAKER_03]: The first question is, what was the source of that information? 20:28.453 --> 20:31.254 [SPEAKER_03]: You may even have to think about if the source is even stated. 20:31.674 --> 20:32.374 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's an example. 20:32.934 --> 20:41.275 [SPEAKER_03]: During the pandemic, we saw many posts from people saying they were giving health information that was coming from an inside source, something like someone's cousin who works in medicine. 20:42.075 --> 20:43.736 [SPEAKER_03]: You probably don't actually know that person. 20:44.316 --> 20:46.676 [SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, you probably don't even know if that person exists. 20:47.436 --> 20:51.737 [SPEAKER_03]: These are questions that you can ask yourself, but also questions you can ask someone you're talking to. 20:52.377 --> 20:55.118 [SPEAKER_03]: Now the way that you do this matters, compare my tone here. 20:55.938 --> 21:00.084 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know that person even exists versus, huh, do you actually know that person? 21:01.106 --> 21:04.030 [SPEAKER_03]: Being curious is going to work better than being combative. 21:05.432 --> 21:07.736 [SPEAKER_03]: Another question is who is sharing the information? 21:09.870 --> 21:12.532 [SPEAKER_03]: is the person who is sharing it qualified to judge it. 21:13.292 --> 21:22.819 [SPEAKER_03]: If the inside information from the cousin at the hospital is not even from the person who's cousin it is, you could think it was something that had been reshared a bunch of times before it made its way into your feed. 21:23.440 --> 21:27.903 [SPEAKER_03]: And one of those reshareds, you don't have a lot of ways of knowing that person's qualifications. 21:28.663 --> 21:33.507 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's say the post says that the cousin who works at the hospital says vaccines cause disease. 21:34.633 --> 21:35.994 [SPEAKER_03]: What does that person do with the hospital? 21:36.034 --> 21:37.314 [SPEAKER_03]: Or they have vaccine researcher? 21:38.415 --> 21:39.436 [SPEAKER_03]: Are they a nurse? 21:39.696 --> 21:40.716 [SPEAKER_03]: Are they a cleaner? 21:41.377 --> 21:45.319 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, without being confrontational, you can model thinking through that yourself. 21:45.699 --> 21:46.199 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, huh. 21:46.679 --> 21:49.281 [SPEAKER_03]: I could look for some other sources of information and see if that's true. 21:50.261 --> 21:52.142 [SPEAKER_03]: Now there's a giant red caution flag here. 21:52.883 --> 21:56.905 [SPEAKER_03]: The whole idea of do your own research suggests that you are able to find good sources. 21:57.617 --> 22:00.119 [SPEAKER_03]: And the absence of that, you can compare different sources. 22:00.879 --> 22:09.844 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe one is a source that says that the city election board reported no anomalies with the election, and another says that the social media influence or said there are anomalies with the election. 22:10.465 --> 22:13.547 [SPEAKER_03]: The question you might ask is, who's actually in a better position to know? 22:15.928 --> 22:19.030 [SPEAKER_03]: The third question you would ask is why that information is being shared? 22:19.711 --> 22:23.453 [SPEAKER_03]: Think about what would benefit the city election board to lie, why would they do that? 22:24.772 --> 22:27.073 [SPEAKER_03]: would it benefit the social media influence or to lie? 22:27.493 --> 22:28.353 [SPEAKER_03]: Why would they do that? 22:29.014 --> 22:37.117 [SPEAKER_03]: Just continuing to ask questions about motivation and about cost can really make a difference in helping someone be discerning about the information that they get. 22:38.117 --> 22:39.998 [SPEAKER_03]: Remember that there is that idea of reactance. 22:40.038 --> 22:48.662 [SPEAKER_03]: You want to approach people who disagree with you with respect as other people who want to be respected, who want to be able to chart their own course and who have real feelings. 22:49.407 --> 22:56.920 [SPEAKER_03]: when you offer corrections as demands and particularly when you offer them with demeaning commentary like that's dumb, you're likely to just make things worse. 22:58.082 --> 22:59.665 [SPEAKER_03]: So true, secret is where does this leave us? 23:00.820 --> 23:02.481 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it leaves us with some jobs to do. 23:03.481 --> 23:11.504 [SPEAKER_03]: When we get into an uncertain media environment, we can always work to verify the information or tell when people are using diversions and false choices to manipulate us. 23:12.124 --> 23:15.626 [SPEAKER_03]: We can remember that media are businesses and they act accordingly. 23:16.426 --> 23:22.088 [SPEAKER_03]: And with kindness, we can help each other in our own communities to understand information better. 23:23.329 --> 23:25.349 [SPEAKER_03]: It is a fraught time coming up truth seekers. 23:26.010 --> 23:26.870 [SPEAKER_03]: Stay sharp out there. 23:37.582 --> 23:39.283 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for getting on Spun with me this week. 23:39.784 --> 23:45.387 [SPEAKER_03]: Unspun is a production of me Amanda Sturgeon and is a proud member of the MSW Media Family of podcasts. 23:46.168 --> 23:52.592 [SPEAKER_03]: Some of your thoughts and ideas about trickery and the news on Gmail at the unspunpodcast at gmail.com. 23:53.253 --> 23:53.993 [SPEAKER_03]: I even write back. 23:54.994 --> 24:00.518 [SPEAKER_03]: And find this episode, show notes, and more information at the unspunpodcast.substack.com. 24:01.319 --> 24:02.640 [SPEAKER_03]: Want to learn more and get smarter? 24:02.980 --> 24:09.045 [SPEAKER_03]: Check out my book, detecting deception tools to fight fake news, which is available on Amazon or your favorite online bookseller. 24:09.866 --> 24:12.768 [SPEAKER_03]: And until next time, stay sharp, everyone.