WEBVTT 00:01.877 --> 00:09.262 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast where we explore what it means to live on purpose as a father and how legacy starts at home. 00:09.922 --> 00:16.627 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Justin Whitmorely, and I'm Brooke Moser, we'll be your hosts, and we desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope. 00:17.167 --> 00:17.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening. 00:22.292 --> 00:22.572 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what? 00:22.752 --> 00:25.773 [SPEAKER_01]: I would love for you because I know this means more to you. 00:26.713 --> 00:30.534 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you should just intro this last episode. 00:30.855 --> 00:31.795 [SPEAKER_01]: That would make me feel good. 00:31.995 --> 00:33.475 [SPEAKER_01]: And it would make you feel really good. 00:33.715 --> 00:35.216 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to trust you right now. 00:35.896 --> 00:36.336 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean? 00:36.996 --> 00:37.957 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not joking. 00:38.157 --> 00:39.777 [SPEAKER_01]: You like, I'm being serious. 00:39.897 --> 00:40.697 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to introduce me to me. 00:40.717 --> 00:44.639 [SPEAKER_00]: Giving it to me so I take it and then I feel bad about doing it. 00:44.919 --> 00:45.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like with the wife thing. 00:45.819 --> 00:46.299 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fine. 00:46.319 --> 00:46.999 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it your way. 00:51.135 --> 00:54.277 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if we're talking about pride, the best time to practice is right now. 00:54.517 --> 00:56.978 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just saying, I don't need this. 00:57.339 --> 00:58.019 [SPEAKER_01]: You can have this. 00:58.499 --> 00:59.540 [SPEAKER_01]: I want you to have this. 01:00.841 --> 01:02.742 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's good for me to not always give what I want. 01:03.862 --> 01:09.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, so, so, I was not just about to be my downfall now. 01:10.541 --> 01:30.964 [SPEAKER_00]: breakers for the fall in and welcome back to season four of the intentional fatherhood podcast we are on episode seven of season four about the tackle our biggest topic of the seven deadly sense we're tried for but before we jump into that we want to remind you to do what broke 01:31.648 --> 01:34.470 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, rating, subscribing, those two things are amazing. 01:34.690 --> 01:35.791 [SPEAKER_01]: Rating, pushing a button. 01:36.212 --> 01:37.473 [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribing is also pushing a button. 01:37.493 --> 01:38.494 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are the lowest hanging for it. 01:38.514 --> 01:39.875 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really easy, really easy. 01:40.375 --> 01:44.658 [SPEAKER_01]: Leave me a comment is so helpful because again, it just interaction. 01:44.679 --> 01:47.821 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also good to hear how this content's being received. 01:47.901 --> 01:48.822 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's huge for us. 01:49.242 --> 01:52.245 [SPEAKER_01]: So if it's been helpful or you have a question or something, like that, it's just really great. 01:52.305 --> 01:53.866 [SPEAKER_01]: So please do that if you haven't had a chance. 01:54.066 --> 01:56.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Particularly if you have a criticism of Brooke, 01:56.588 --> 02:03.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess or me, which I, you would be more shocked by here. 02:03.533 --> 02:06.174 [SPEAKER_01]: We're about to talk about pride, so we're just going to work in these things now. 02:06.274 --> 02:08.636 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be amazed if anybody had it. 02:08.656 --> 02:10.057 [SPEAKER_00]: He would have a problem with anything I said here. 02:10.998 --> 02:11.738 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was a comment. 02:11.778 --> 02:13.119 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was interesting. 02:13.379 --> 02:23.805 [SPEAKER_01]: But lastly, YouTube, you can go watch all of these episodes and we're in right now where the intentional studios in Bend, which has been fun for you to be out here for this season. 02:23.825 --> 02:24.665 [SPEAKER_01]: Really, it's been great. 02:24.865 --> 02:29.488 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you can watch all this, but subscribe there too and share it. 02:29.528 --> 02:31.709 [SPEAKER_01]: Because honestly, that is something that's helpful. 02:31.749 --> 02:35.291 [SPEAKER_01]: We are not wanting to just sit here and pontificate about random stuff. 02:35.891 --> 02:44.999 [SPEAKER_01]: Although that is partly what we do, we also really want to help a generation of fathers find the way of Jesus through life in Him. 02:45.279 --> 02:49.103 [SPEAKER_01]: So please, you know, share it if it's helpful. 02:49.403 --> 02:52.065 [SPEAKER_01]: So we've been talking about the seven deadly sins. 02:52.105 --> 02:54.367 [SPEAKER_01]: We've been going through each one methodically. 02:55.408 --> 03:04.994 [SPEAKER_01]: Last episode, greed was a good one, and thank you, again, less nerf you haven't listened to that episode last week or the previous one's very helpful, but that particular episode was great. 03:05.094 --> 03:09.176 [SPEAKER_01]: I think for a lot of reasons, I'm just reflecting before we maybe jump in, if that's okay. 03:09.196 --> 03:10.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, reflecting. 03:10.617 --> 03:14.940 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll just reflecting on, I think that was, that was a special episode for multiple reasons. 03:15.260 --> 03:20.263 [SPEAKER_01]: One, and these might be reasons you were aware of, or that we might have different reasons, why it's special. 03:20.943 --> 03:26.236 [SPEAKER_01]: To me, it's special because I love the example that you set to in a way. 03:29.890 --> 03:35.174 [SPEAKER_01]: not have to know everything in that space, not have to have it figured out. 03:35.694 --> 03:41.958 [SPEAKER_01]: And to have the humility to just come under a friend's questions and be like, I don't know, maybe. 03:42.479 --> 03:47.882 [SPEAKER_01]: And then to take that to the extent and not have a pretty determined outcome, that's really powerful. 03:48.543 --> 03:49.483 [SPEAKER_01]: Now uncomfortable for me. 03:49.944 --> 03:51.825 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, have you reflected on it? 03:51.965 --> 03:52.285 [SPEAKER_00]: I have. 03:52.405 --> 03:53.226 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I thought that was 03:57.171 --> 03:58.391 [SPEAKER_00]: I like organizing thoughts. 03:58.431 --> 04:02.252 [SPEAKER_00]: I like knowing what I think, I like giving people a paradigm that can help. 04:03.273 --> 04:09.254 [SPEAKER_00]: I am always left confused when I just sort of pontificate, particularly, and become emotional. 04:09.274 --> 04:11.555 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, is this helpful, or am I just processing? 04:11.575 --> 04:14.855 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I just, you've seen like, you or listen to a process? 04:14.875 --> 04:17.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was going to say, dear, I'm going to trust your gut more than mine. 04:17.276 --> 04:24.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, dear, listen to, can you please reassure and tell Justin what I already know, which it was really powerful and helpful? 04:25.238 --> 04:36.914 [SPEAKER_01]: What, and this is actually to the point of the episode, what would make you feel more than anything like you have to be put together the aversion of pride now that's not bad like you're you actually are saying that because you want to help you. 04:36.934 --> 04:39.497 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, and I know you're heart and you know you're heart like. 04:40.138 --> 04:47.624 [SPEAKER_01]: you want to be helpful because you don't want to waste people's time, but you also don't like being a thought of as someone that might not have their thoughts together. 04:47.644 --> 04:50.167 [SPEAKER_01]: So the table I just sort of, I have that too. 04:50.787 --> 04:57.433 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just to say, I think it's those moments of raw or unfiltered processing where we can find ourselves. 04:57.773 --> 05:01.976 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I think you gave so many people in that moment our episode is 05:03.978 --> 05:17.866 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the, I'm in the same boat as you, like I'm just as messy in some of my formation is you are I have some of the same won't roaming thoughts and they're not all late to rest and that's just the gift of 05:18.466 --> 05:24.247 [SPEAKER_01]: feeling like, oh, okay, Justin doesn't have it all put together, but I respect him more for being honest about it. 05:24.487 --> 05:26.308 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, because none of us actually have it put together. 05:26.328 --> 05:27.408 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the funny part. 05:29.189 --> 05:35.450 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, interesting thinking about this because it directly relates to pride for me. 05:36.510 --> 05:38.971 [SPEAKER_00]: As we've been preparing for this episode and I've been thinking about it, 05:40.132 --> 05:59.161 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been thinking about pride as part of the sin that creates a massive confusion around our lives because we don't see ourselves accurately and we don't necessarily see the world accurately because we see it through an incorrect lens of pride and even with the last episode that you're talking about right now. 06:00.662 --> 06:06.547 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know whether I'm slightly uncomfortable with it because of a prideful sense of like, well, I didn't organize my thoughts. 06:06.607 --> 06:14.874 [SPEAKER_00]: What do people think of me like, yeah, or whether it's a true others centered sense where I'm like, I don't know if that was helpful to them. 06:16.162 --> 06:37.102 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is characteristic of what we're going to talk about in this episode that one of the things that Pride does is it just distorts your whole reality, sometimes making you outright sin and creating selfish ambition that you carry out on purpose. 06:37.943 --> 06:52.520 [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes I'm just putting you into a cloud of confusion where you're like, I really don't know what the right thing to do here is because I don't know if this is my pride speaking or this is virtue speaking or if this is God speaking, pride, disorientess. 06:53.661 --> 06:54.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, dude. 06:56.057 --> 07:03.122 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm supposed to share something that's very, uh, it's a perfect example of what we're talking about. 07:03.142 --> 07:06.944 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't like how it makes me look. 07:07.084 --> 07:10.406 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I think this is the right episode to share it. 07:10.546 --> 07:12.648 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what you're about to share. 07:12.668 --> 07:15.670 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what I was like, as I'm seeing you share right now. 07:15.710 --> 07:16.590 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you know what you say. 07:16.610 --> 07:17.891 [SPEAKER_01]: So they got loud and you're like, oh. 07:19.093 --> 07:26.083 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, like as I'm hearing myself repeat them like exactly like the perfect story, it's the point that we're trying to make. 07:26.103 --> 07:28.787 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll share this story. 07:28.827 --> 07:33.635 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one thing to maybe just note for anybody for this episode is we're talking about the idea of pride. 07:34.195 --> 07:36.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Pride is the sin that you can't see in the mirror. 07:37.419 --> 07:43.107 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the, the sin that's just like so hard for us to be able to just see. 07:43.587 --> 07:51.057 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so sneaky and it's so prevalent and it's woven in so many things that we would probably even call good things. 07:51.677 --> 07:58.660 [SPEAKER_01]: And even as you said, I don't know if it's a pride of just not wanting to seem put together or a pride of like, I just want to honor people's time. 07:58.860 --> 07:59.620 [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably mixed. 07:59.660 --> 08:04.102 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think most of pride is sneaky because it's not just one part of it. 08:04.142 --> 08:06.303 [SPEAKER_00]: It's mixed in kind of both at the same time, right? 08:06.323 --> 08:10.985 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so and even right now I'm like, I don't want to waste people's time, but I like, I don't want to look stupid. 08:11.705 --> 08:15.189 [SPEAKER_01]: So this will be funny because I haven't even talked to you about this. 08:15.229 --> 08:17.111 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm zero idea what you're about to say. 08:17.151 --> 08:20.255 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very curious. 08:20.756 --> 08:22.638 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's not even, it's nothing bad. 08:22.658 --> 08:23.899 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just a perfect example. 08:23.939 --> 08:25.541 [SPEAKER_01]: So, well, I'll be the judge of that. 08:27.441 --> 08:27.981 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be the one. 08:28.042 --> 08:28.542 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's hear it. 08:28.622 --> 08:33.746 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I have a pretty high view of my ability to judge things. 08:34.006 --> 08:36.088 [SPEAKER_01]: So, well, a couple of things. 08:36.168 --> 08:39.070 [SPEAKER_01]: Last night, here's where we're in Bend, it's a Saturday. 08:39.090 --> 08:41.732 [SPEAKER_01]: We just had our first interview, which was awesome. 08:41.792 --> 08:50.019 [SPEAKER_01]: We had 40 plus guys come out to our intentional studios and we did a live Q&R, which was so fun. 08:50.059 --> 08:54.783 [SPEAKER_01]: And we say Q&R, question response, we can't answer all your questions, but we can respond to anything that promise we do. 08:55.443 --> 08:59.849 [SPEAKER_01]: But we did a live Q&A and just got to just hang out. 08:59.930 --> 09:03.474 [SPEAKER_01]: That was that was the really the points like who are these wonderful dudes? 09:03.534 --> 09:10.864 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was the highlight for me the Q&A was great, but the conversations before and the conversations after we had so many good conversations 09:11.585 --> 09:14.447 [SPEAKER_00]: they get home until like after midnight. 09:14.788 --> 09:21.012 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't in bed till one thirty and then I was like we got to be back this morning to film and I was like, oh, it was just felt like death. 09:21.233 --> 09:27.017 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was standing in a group of guys and they were just giving each other advice on fatherhood and they were all in different stages. 09:27.037 --> 09:28.919 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, this is such a cool thing. 09:29.319 --> 09:32.581 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, so you're reflecting on the night and it was really, um, 09:33.462 --> 09:44.409 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just encouraging, you know, in our hope, you know, truth be told, and probably by the time this is out, you will have more that we've announced, but our hope is to do, you know, when we're around cities near you, to have some moments where we can connect when we can. 09:45.710 --> 09:52.175 [SPEAKER_01]: You and I find ourselves in similar cities at the same time, because it's a different work we do, and because of this, and so how do we take advantage? 09:52.235 --> 09:52.395 [SPEAKER_01]: But, 09:53.115 --> 09:53.495 [SPEAKER_01]: We're there. 09:53.515 --> 09:54.315 [SPEAKER_01]: It's our first one. 09:54.895 --> 09:55.536 [SPEAKER_01]: It was amazing. 09:55.576 --> 10:19.520 [SPEAKER_01]: So many great people are team put on an amazing spread It was just great and I think we we get to the The Q and R time Um, and We were filming all day so my mind was like my head was just kind of like I think there's a moment where we all reach our point of like it's a little mushy I'll be fine with this mental tiredness mental tiredness end of the day like it's set in a clock You know and you're on all morning 10:20.060 --> 10:36.086 [SPEAKER_01]: and i run i still lead the team like i still have a whole team here so similar to you when i come in film enrichment but you're still at we're at your law firm and people but put their head and like i just can we you know it's like we don't turn it off right um but when we got to the the q and i had time or the q and our time 10:37.207 --> 10:47.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we were going back and forth with questions and my in my head and to be truth in the be truthful. 10:47.836 --> 10:49.097 [SPEAKER_01]: You did an amazing job. 10:49.257 --> 10:52.119 [SPEAKER_01]: I was watching you know like he's got a really great answer, so he's alert. 10:52.159 --> 10:52.720 [SPEAKER_01]: He's awake. 10:53.300 --> 10:53.501 [SPEAKER_01]: Really? 10:53.521 --> 10:53.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Really? 10:53.761 --> 10:54.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Present. 10:54.441 --> 10:55.522 [SPEAKER_01]: This was how I experienced it. 10:55.682 --> 10:55.883 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:56.849 --> 10:57.530 [SPEAKER_01]: take the. 10:57.550 --> 10:58.270 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll take the win. 10:58.290 --> 10:59.091 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, that's great. 10:59.211 --> 10:59.411 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:59.431 --> 11:00.091 [SPEAKER_01]: That was kind of you. 11:00.672 --> 11:04.255 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, and so I haven't actually even actually, I thought you did a wonderful job. 11:04.275 --> 11:05.215 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was really helpful. 11:05.255 --> 11:07.357 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the questions in the way you responded was great. 11:07.877 --> 11:10.559 [SPEAKER_01]: What I love about our dynamic is because we're so different. 11:10.659 --> 11:14.162 [SPEAKER_01]: Even to the extreme of East Coast West Coast, which you find the little funny things all the time. 11:14.422 --> 11:14.983 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 11:15.123 --> 11:17.965 [SPEAKER_01]: What I love about our dynamic and I think what makes it fun is that 11:18.465 --> 11:23.327 [SPEAKER_01]: you will look at one situation on one side and my mind goes to the, almost the complete other. 11:23.407 --> 11:23.627 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 11:23.647 --> 11:24.868 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not an opposing. 11:25.048 --> 11:29.570 [SPEAKER_01]: It's often of a yes, but it's a, yes, it's a, it's a weirdly interesting compliment. 11:29.590 --> 11:38.834 [SPEAKER_01]: If I don't all miss something that you add to or you'll say something and I'll add an addition and it's a fun, it's a fun dynamic and I actually think it's what makes it strong. 11:40.535 --> 11:43.496 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously your work on itself was strong, our work on our own is strong. 11:43.536 --> 11:44.797 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not 11:48.598 --> 12:03.945 [SPEAKER_01]: I started having this feeling probably like right when I got done, I just felt like man, I was not really present, I feel like I was kind of scattered, I didn't feel clear in some of my responses and that played into like 12:05.514 --> 12:21.140 [SPEAKER_01]: This was all sub by the way, this was all sub until like this morning when I had a moment to even just Okay, one of my feelings because I was like, there's something here, but I don't know where it's coming from So doing some inner work of like why am I feeling like I love last night, but I I don't love last night. 12:21.400 --> 12:22.121 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't I love it? 12:22.901 --> 12:40.769 [SPEAKER_01]: And I realized it's because I thought that I underperformed as a team member I didn't hold up my end of it and I feel like you did great and I did mildly okay and it was like, and you know, I'm probably just being extreme, but to an extent. 12:42.230 --> 12:44.051 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what it feels like. 12:44.591 --> 12:49.295 [SPEAKER_01]: And so then when I sit back and go, why is that a problem? 12:49.315 --> 12:50.916 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, just as when's my win? 12:52.097 --> 12:54.939 [SPEAKER_01]: But if he wins and I don't, what does that mean about me? 12:55.359 --> 13:00.583 [SPEAKER_01]: If Justin can put his thoughts together so clearly and so sharply, why does he have energy? 13:00.703 --> 13:01.923 [SPEAKER_01]: We did the same thing all day. 13:02.384 --> 13:07.667 [SPEAKER_01]: Why did I feel scattered and like all over the place and couldn't like clearly respond in a way that I wanted to. 13:07.788 --> 13:08.088 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 13:08.879 --> 13:10.460 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I'm wrestling with. 13:10.480 --> 13:12.321 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know you were thinking that. 13:12.341 --> 13:13.922 [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't really know what's like that either. 13:13.962 --> 13:15.563 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would have been fair. 13:16.023 --> 13:17.704 [SPEAKER_00]: I have two things to say. 13:18.004 --> 13:22.866 [SPEAKER_00]: One, what you said to me yesterday, don't be so hard to yourself actually. 13:23.227 --> 13:25.008 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think most of that was true. 13:25.028 --> 13:25.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 13:25.848 --> 13:29.030 [SPEAKER_00]: I sensed you were a little bit tired beforehand because you said so, but I thought, 13:30.131 --> 13:31.032 [SPEAKER_00]: in all of our answers. 13:31.272 --> 13:32.934 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I love the compliment. 13:32.954 --> 13:34.216 [SPEAKER_00]: He always has a different perspective. 13:34.656 --> 13:36.538 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, be gracious to yourself. 13:36.619 --> 13:36.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 13:37.099 --> 13:45.850 [SPEAKER_00]: But but but second, this is the perfect entry point to pride. 13:46.315 --> 14:02.922 [SPEAKER_00]: because there's so many things that you just said in that small anecdote of actual life last night that disrupts our lives in the biggest and smallest moments and I identify with every single one of them. 14:04.723 --> 14:10.187 [SPEAKER_00]: Since I was young, I remember, I identifying this for the first time in high school. 14:11.328 --> 14:19.874 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember thinking, I don't know how to feel about anything until someone tells me, good job or not. 14:20.715 --> 14:22.736 [SPEAKER_00]: I can, and I, oh, this, 14:24.427 --> 14:40.291 [SPEAKER_00]: we struggle pride makes us struggle to evaluate reality because we don't see it clearly unless we hear somebody tell us how we measured up and it just it obscures so much of our life. 14:40.871 --> 14:44.212 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we can't decide 14:46.132 --> 14:59.176 [SPEAKER_00]: how we should feel about life until we start comparing, you know, and it's like, oh, yes, we talked about this with envy, and obviously we've said, all at least I've said all the long, you've been like, that's a weird phrase, pride being the queen of sense, you know, that pride is where I like it. 14:59.416 --> 15:01.097 [SPEAKER_01]: I said, like I thought you made it up by liking. 15:01.177 --> 15:02.077 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not make it up. 15:02.097 --> 15:03.457 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I was. 15:03.917 --> 15:04.738 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be pride. 15:05.958 --> 15:13.004 [SPEAKER_00]: I pretty sure I'm barring it from Pope Gregory's writings on it because that was one of the things that I was researching before this. 15:15.066 --> 15:18.729 [SPEAKER_00]: But envy is downstream of pride. 15:19.310 --> 15:19.730 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 15:20.010 --> 15:26.496 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we live our life looking to other people and wondering, am I measuring up, right? 15:26.796 --> 15:27.177 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just... 15:28.137 --> 15:31.858 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that story because I relate to it so much, so much of my life. 15:31.898 --> 15:36.920 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to evaluate outside of somebody telling me how I did in it. 15:37.580 --> 15:44.742 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think if we do well in the next minutes of this episode, we will help the listener see that 15:45.602 --> 15:53.245 [SPEAKER_00]: every part of their life and their work to their fatherhood, their spirituality to their friendship is distorted by this lens of pride. 15:53.646 --> 16:01.729 [SPEAKER_00]: And that the only way through is to meet God, who gives you the correct view of reality, where he's at the center and you're not. 16:01.969 --> 16:02.289 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 16:03.310 --> 16:10.453 [SPEAKER_01]: The question that we have that that that pride is trying to fill is, what are you still 16:12.155 --> 16:22.404 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what, so, so in this context of this story, what was going on for me, and I'm processing out loud, so please don't listen, please. 16:23.705 --> 16:24.666 [SPEAKER_01]: I joke hits every time. 16:24.726 --> 16:25.647 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it every time. 16:26.207 --> 16:27.188 [SPEAKER_01]: You chuckle every time. 16:28.569 --> 16:29.990 [SPEAKER_00]: I might have never heard you say that before. 16:30.070 --> 16:30.991 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's funny. 16:31.272 --> 16:33.553 [SPEAKER_01]: Fresh, original ease, please don't listen. 16:34.014 --> 16:34.875 [SPEAKER_01]: It is that. 16:36.818 --> 17:01.810 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I have something to prove because if I don't show up well in my profession with these guys time and expectation, then who am I and now I'm not, my work's not my identity and I'm very aware and conscious of how that can come about even especially in our profession. 17:03.252 --> 17:12.159 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm also very aware that like my professional successes are not doesn't mean I'm a great human or doing well at life. 17:12.899 --> 17:15.121 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm I'm pointing all that out to say. 17:17.103 --> 17:29.492 [SPEAKER_01]: To say that it is so tricky and maybe one other like thing behind the thing is we're already here so I'm aren't I'll just keep I'll tell you where my mind went, but as I was processing this this morning. 17:31.342 --> 17:54.438 [SPEAKER_01]: my wife had said she said you just kind of seemed like I'm a strong leader but not an arrogant type but like I'm a leader I don't know how to not lead but she's like you're kind of seeming unsure you seem like you were a little unsure of yourself and what was interesting when she said that well she's like I don't think anyone would pick this up but she's like I'm your wife I know you did what you processing and she commented that 17:55.058 --> 17:55.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Or did she? 17:55.518 --> 18:01.500 [SPEAKER_01]: She left me a voice memo before I even got home last night to reassure me because she knew without me. 18:01.961 --> 18:04.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, dude, this is where it's beautiful, right? 18:04.562 --> 18:05.062 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh really? 18:05.402 --> 18:10.604 [SPEAKER_01]: I won't get emotional, but she basically, before I even got home, she had left me a voice mode driving home. 18:10.624 --> 18:13.965 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I can see that that was doing something. 18:14.165 --> 18:16.167 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and she's like, so she's like, I want to reassure you. 18:16.307 --> 18:16.967 [SPEAKER_01]: You did a great job. 18:17.047 --> 18:22.692 [SPEAKER_01]: As your wife, I can see that you were feeling unsure, you know. 18:23.212 --> 18:34.782 [SPEAKER_01]: And so she's she reassured me, but it didn't it helped and it didn't because then she was saying, I know the real you and you didn't show up as well as you got up. 18:35.322 --> 18:38.765 [SPEAKER_01]: Now she didn't say that and she never even said those words and that's not what she even meant to communicate. 18:38.785 --> 18:39.025 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:39.166 --> 18:39.706 [SPEAKER_01]: So I took it. 18:40.307 --> 18:43.189 [SPEAKER_01]: One other layer deeper where pride can be come is 18:44.813 --> 18:59.584 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm processing the comparison piece, if Justin did better in that scenario and I did worse, I either have to admit that I didn't do a good job or I have to attack you. 19:00.997 --> 19:02.858 [SPEAKER_00]: meaning, I either have to go. 19:03.398 --> 19:14.441 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I was tired and I had a lot going on my head and I've learned that leading events and also speaking at events and doing that all that whole role kind of undoes parts of my mind because of different parts of my brain. 19:14.741 --> 19:14.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 19:14.981 --> 19:17.881 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't do well if I have to hyper focus on both. 19:18.802 --> 19:19.422 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm learning that. 19:20.602 --> 19:28.764 [SPEAKER_01]: But my mind started going and this is confession, but it's also not, you know, there's no room in it, but my mind was so tempted to be like, 19:30.457 --> 19:35.121 [SPEAKER_01]: decisions that's like he's being assertive and he's like, he knows what he wants then he just goes and gets it. 19:35.301 --> 19:37.724 [SPEAKER_01]: That's he should be more thoughtful. 19:37.964 --> 19:38.985 [SPEAKER_01]: I started doing that in my head. 19:39.645 --> 19:43.088 [SPEAKER_01]: I stopped it, but I'm just telling you like, and I don't actually believe that. 19:43.128 --> 19:45.110 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm telling you, this because it's so complicated. 19:45.511 --> 19:46.211 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not you. 19:46.331 --> 19:47.152 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not what happened. 19:47.432 --> 19:48.213 [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't do anything. 19:48.293 --> 19:54.078 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm trying to be like, ultra like raw here because I think it is in that. 19:55.039 --> 20:12.670 [SPEAKER_01]: very which makes it look ugly example but we're talking about pride and I don't really don't care at this point where I already this far down the road is to say that's what happens like and I have to either own it on my stuff and be the actual person that they can miss it or you or you or the person who is the 20:13.530 --> 20:37.263 [SPEAKER_01]: comparison becomes the enemy and you sort of tacking them and a lot of that's mental before it's ever Yes, practical so that's what we have to be on guard with and Like I was grace and a lot of people helping me through the years like I'm able to see that pattern and stop it and tell me to tell myself the truth like And I can say with confidence you did a great job, and that's what it was and I wasn't present like I wanted to be 20:38.527 --> 20:39.347 [SPEAKER_01]: that's pretty much it. 20:39.927 --> 20:44.728 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, it was pretty deep, but I think it's I think it's proving the point of how sneaky this can be. 20:45.149 --> 20:46.849 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's incredible. 20:46.889 --> 20:52.610 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just a real life example from last night, just a regular thing kind of like in both of our lives. 20:53.410 --> 21:01.652 [SPEAKER_00]: And for any listener listening, I hope it it shows the point that you can examine almost any moment of your 21:09.194 --> 21:22.461 [SPEAKER_00]: vanity, yes, is taking me out of reality, making me see it wrong, making me question everything, and then I really appreciate your honesty on the last point, is making me attack others because of it. 21:22.662 --> 21:26.844 [SPEAKER_00]: And it starts all in your head, you're incredibly self-aware. 21:27.564 --> 21:32.887 [SPEAKER_00]: I think about this all the time when you, you process, you've learned to process, you're 21:34.422 --> 21:52.513 [SPEAKER_00]: own emotions in such a deep and helpful way that I think spares you through the loads of grace from taking it to a bad place in the way so many other people I see like I don't even notice it till they're at the bad place and I'm like how they and I think first. 21:53.914 --> 21:59.497 [SPEAKER_00]: for Dad's listening, I just want to put this in the context of regular life examples because I see this everywhere. 21:59.617 --> 21:59.857 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:00.237 --> 22:20.407 [SPEAKER_00]: This dynamic you just shared is happening when our kids are disobedient and public and suddenly we think not about helping this child, not about getting to their heart, not about the gentleness we want to show, but who am I if someone sees my kid acting like this and we snap? 22:21.755 --> 22:47.402 [SPEAKER_00]: It happens in an argument with our wife where we're just talking about whether or not to do this or that and somewhere in the back of our head, we start asking, well, who am I if I don't get my way or if we do this or why did she come at me like this and pride starts to color and interaction and then we snap and we take it out on her as you'd at work all the time where it was just a simple mistake. 22:49.163 --> 22:59.189 [SPEAKER_00]: in an email or a contract, but bringing it up to somebody, you see their eyes change because they're not looking at the sentence that needs to be fixed. 22:59.589 --> 23:00.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, I'm a lawyer. 23:00.769 --> 23:01.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Try the right words. 23:02.430 --> 23:08.113 [SPEAKER_00]: They're thinking, oh, who am I if I missed that or if I didn't get that right and they snap into defensiveness. 23:08.754 --> 23:10.655 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like anywhere in our life. 23:11.826 --> 23:20.931 [SPEAKER_00]: We have this distorted view of reality that turns to attacking other people, and this is what the Bible calls the center of all our sin. 23:20.971 --> 23:38.160 [SPEAKER_00]: And what I wanted to point out, both for your story, but also for our listeners, I think what's worth deeply appreciating is the idea that God opposes the proud right that gives grace to the humble. 23:39.842 --> 23:51.387 [SPEAKER_00]: or a lot this season has been trying to get you to take your sense seriously, and I want you to think about the idea that in a life of pride, you are fighting God. 23:54.274 --> 23:55.095 [SPEAKER_00]: you're not going to win. 23:55.835 --> 23:56.956 [SPEAKER_00]: It's never going to work. 23:57.456 --> 24:01.660 [SPEAKER_00]: The life of pride always means you're you're running against the grain of the universe. 24:01.680 --> 24:13.068 [SPEAKER_00]: You're running counter to the way God made you and it's going to end in fights and confusion and self delusion, sadness, disobedience. 24:14.089 --> 24:22.814 [SPEAKER_00]: It never works and this is the, I think one of the main things to realize about pride is it lied to you. 24:22.874 --> 24:24.275 [SPEAKER_00]: It's lying to you right now. 24:24.715 --> 24:33.220 [SPEAKER_00]: It's saying that life would be better if I got my way life would be better if people saw me for who I am really and I'm so great when it's like this is ruining you. 24:33.880 --> 24:37.942 [SPEAKER_00]: This is literally achieving all the opposites of your actual goals people see it. 24:38.502 --> 24:39.623 [SPEAKER_00]: They see that you're arrogant. 24:39.683 --> 24:40.403 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not working. 24:40.443 --> 24:41.444 [SPEAKER_00]: You're causing conflict. 24:43.052 --> 24:45.214 [SPEAKER_00]: And when is there's got to pose as the proud? 24:46.235 --> 24:47.557 [SPEAKER_00]: I want just want you to take it seriously. 24:47.577 --> 24:51.981 [SPEAKER_00]: Like God is against you in your pride. 24:52.793 --> 24:57.437 [SPEAKER_00]: for your own sake, but that part of you won't win, doesn't work. 24:58.558 --> 25:06.305 [SPEAKER_01]: This is such a good, it's such a reminder that we're fighting against an impossible, you see, you know, a definite losing situation. 25:06.986 --> 25:16.434 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, I think even as we're talking about the topic of pride, what comes to my mind is how many people again are so blind to it. 25:17.335 --> 25:21.880 [SPEAKER_01]: myself included, like again, I think being appreciating how sneaky pride is. 25:22.420 --> 25:27.665 [SPEAKER_01]: To even just name some different forms of pride, things that we would say, I have a list here, but yeah, give us a list. 25:27.685 --> 25:37.115 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll just things that we would probably maybe even go, oh, that's not pride, but again, pride hides with half truths all over the place. 25:37.235 --> 25:37.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 25:37.675 --> 25:44.300 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what makes it so cunning and sneaky is it can show up in all these ways that aren't overtly pride. 25:45.081 --> 25:46.361 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me give you a couple. 25:46.542 --> 25:47.642 [SPEAKER_01]: Errogance, what is that? 25:47.923 --> 25:48.503 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm better than you. 25:48.943 --> 25:51.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Insecurity, I'm consumed with whether I measure up to you. 25:51.545 --> 25:51.685 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 25:52.006 --> 25:53.867 [SPEAKER_01]: So in that sense, I felt insecure. 25:54.387 --> 25:55.048 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a form of pride. 25:55.368 --> 26:00.351 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're both the same thing that arrogance and insecurity and they show up in total different ways. 26:00.551 --> 26:03.252 [SPEAKER_00]: One is like, oh my gosh, I'm not measuring up the other one is I'm better than you. 26:03.332 --> 26:03.633 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 26:03.693 --> 26:04.173 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 26:04.613 --> 26:05.253 [SPEAKER_01]: Defensiveness. 26:05.333 --> 26:10.016 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't tolerate being wrong, control things need to happen my way before I feel okay. 26:10.256 --> 26:12.157 [SPEAKER_01]: Or to feel okay, things have to happen my way. 26:12.978 --> 26:13.458 [SPEAKER_01]: That's hard. 26:13.898 --> 26:15.719 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an interesting one, image management. 26:15.859 --> 26:18.821 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what do people perceive me to be like? 26:19.001 --> 26:21.802 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's image socially, physically. 26:25.325 --> 26:27.526 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, in a huge way, form of pride. 26:27.646 --> 26:32.831 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's about your body and how you look in image management for other people. 26:32.851 --> 26:34.192 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a big part, how do people see it? 26:34.212 --> 26:36.233 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you can step harder on that if you want. 26:36.293 --> 26:38.595 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a serious, you're an agent. 26:38.655 --> 26:39.936 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you talk about it? 26:39.956 --> 26:40.937 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you see it all the time. 26:40.977 --> 26:43.599 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just, you're being a little kind about it. 26:43.639 --> 26:47.602 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just bluntly, I mean, so many of us are after vanity. 26:47.783 --> 26:48.823 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, through extras. 26:48.984 --> 26:52.306 [SPEAKER_00]: When we think about exercise, so many of us are after body image. 26:53.367 --> 27:00.557 [SPEAKER_00]: or after a desire to feel better about ourselves, things again that are cloaked in sort of good things, but we use walk-in to a gym. 27:01.538 --> 27:05.944 [SPEAKER_00]: And the place is freaking coded with mirrors on the wall. 27:06.124 --> 27:08.647 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need that. 27:09.308 --> 27:10.370 [SPEAKER_00]: That is not functional. 27:11.090 --> 27:28.445 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you, you know, you want, you, it's not even that effective to check your form in a mirror, what you really need is a coach or a spotter, but our gyms regularly have mirrors everywhere because they actually, like, the people, you know, here need to look at themselves. 27:28.525 --> 27:28.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:28.905 --> 27:30.827 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would just want to give you virtually go harder than that thing. 27:30.867 --> 27:31.287 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah. 27:31.327 --> 27:38.073 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, well, you did, I mean, again, I think you're speaking to it in that sense from the experience piece of like it's not. 27:38.853 --> 27:41.174 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not ever just one thing, that's true. 27:41.695 --> 27:44.756 [SPEAKER_01]: Quick, a couple other ones, and this is probably a little more obvious. 27:45.177 --> 27:50.399 [SPEAKER_01]: Comparison, I determine my worth, basically, by where I rank with you, people pleasing. 27:50.680 --> 27:51.560 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a form of pride. 27:51.620 --> 27:53.041 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think there's a lot of people to go. 27:53.801 --> 27:54.701 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's not, that's right. 27:54.902 --> 27:58.263 [SPEAKER_01]: People pleasing is I need your approval to secure my identity. 27:58.483 --> 27:58.663 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 27:58.703 --> 28:01.485 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to please you because I need you to be fine. 28:01.625 --> 28:01.805 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 28:01.945 --> 28:03.325 [SPEAKER_01]: That's big entitlement. 28:04.226 --> 28:05.386 [SPEAKER_01]: I deserve more than I'm receiving. 28:05.887 --> 28:13.250 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you get entitled to life being a certain way or certain set of expectations, that is a form of pride, self-sufficiency. 28:13.470 --> 28:14.130 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need anybody. 28:14.411 --> 28:14.691 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine. 28:14.931 --> 28:15.551 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need you. 28:15.571 --> 28:16.312 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need anyone. 28:17.152 --> 28:17.552 [SPEAKER_01]: Blame. 28:17.812 --> 28:20.074 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what happened in this situation if you think about it. 28:20.174 --> 28:23.636 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm not owning my part, yes, you begin to blame other people. 28:23.656 --> 28:27.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone has to become that and then two more perfectionism. 28:27.698 --> 28:28.698 [SPEAKER_01]: That's another form of pride. 28:29.119 --> 28:30.560 [SPEAKER_01]: My mistakes threaten my identity. 28:30.820 --> 28:36.003 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you are not perfect, it threatens your identity and then lastly, martyrdom. 28:36.603 --> 28:38.224 [SPEAKER_01]: No one appreciates how much I do around here. 28:38.504 --> 28:38.724 [SPEAKER_01]: Huge. 28:38.784 --> 28:39.985 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to say this really quick. 28:40.145 --> 28:40.885 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so big. 28:41.025 --> 28:41.145 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 28:42.366 --> 28:46.712 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will even say moms may be specifically, but I'm not going to say exclusively. 28:48.274 --> 28:54.823 [SPEAKER_01]: Martyrdom is a very interesting thought that is not talked about a lot, so I just want to even take 30 seconds to say. 28:55.935 --> 29:02.139 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the sneaky one that turns into self-pity, and no one appreciates what I do. 29:02.280 --> 29:04.481 [SPEAKER_01]: No one sees me, no one cares. 29:05.101 --> 29:08.844 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're doing the things that God's called this two for then the wrong reasons. 29:08.984 --> 29:10.085 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, is that understandable? 29:10.365 --> 29:12.026 [SPEAKER_01]: You're human, of course it's understandable. 29:12.747 --> 29:15.849 [SPEAKER_01]: But it still causes damage and it's still not okay. 29:16.570 --> 29:19.251 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to name it what it is, it's a form of pride. 29:20.112 --> 29:23.334 [SPEAKER_01]: you're doing this to love and serve the people that God is giving you to raise. 29:23.434 --> 29:26.817 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just to say, it can show up and can I just give one more? 29:26.837 --> 29:28.077 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it is in the church all the time. 29:28.238 --> 29:30.959 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you can I just chime in on that one really quick? 29:31.019 --> 29:35.622 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I actually, I'm very, very guilty of this one. 29:36.123 --> 29:38.404 [SPEAKER_00]: It's embarrassing, but it's just true. 29:38.664 --> 29:40.926 [SPEAKER_00]: I see this in my job. 29:42.227 --> 29:43.388 [SPEAKER_00]: I see it in my family. 29:43.788 --> 29:45.169 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not as I see it in my friend life. 29:46.349 --> 29:57.793 [SPEAKER_00]: I will get in this bad place of spiritual warfare in my head and have dumb conversations with myself, like nobody cares except me, like I'm the only one doing anything. 29:58.673 --> 30:00.293 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is it always have to fall to me? 30:00.513 --> 30:02.294 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, everybody else just... 30:03.094 --> 30:05.575 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, they're going to let the problems fall. 30:05.615 --> 30:08.275 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, again, this is so sweet. 30:08.396 --> 30:12.417 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it out loud and it sounds as dumb and embarrassing as it is. 30:12.457 --> 30:14.697 [SPEAKER_00]: This is by the way why free advice here. 30:14.717 --> 30:16.658 [SPEAKER_00]: Why prayer is incredible. 30:17.758 --> 30:18.778 [SPEAKER_00]: It happened this morning grow. 30:18.978 --> 30:28.401 [SPEAKER_00]: I was praying about last night in episodes today and just think and like trying to think like, what do I want to do? 30:28.681 --> 30:29.221 [SPEAKER_00]: How should it go? 30:30.001 --> 30:34.662 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was saying it out loud, I was like, oh, that can't be the way it is. 30:36.443 --> 30:40.744 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I weren't praying about it, I wouldn't have heard it. 30:40.964 --> 30:47.446 [SPEAKER_00]: And we just, we have all these narratives in our head, whether it's, you know, martyrdom or how life should work or what someone else did to you. 30:48.067 --> 30:50.427 [SPEAKER_00]: And when I say it out loud, when we say it out loud, it sounds horrible. 30:50.467 --> 30:56.709 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just wanna confess, like I will sit at the kitchen sink, washing dishes, and say to myself, like, I'm the only one who cleans up around here. 30:59.610 --> 31:08.754 [SPEAKER_00]: like Lawrence always cleaning up and our boys are actually helping and I'm just in any mom or dad struggling with this out there. 31:09.274 --> 31:11.075 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually think business owners struggle with this a lot. 31:11.095 --> 31:17.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just when you when you're in leadership, you will recite these martyrdom complexes to yourself. 31:17.618 --> 31:19.999 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm the only one who fill in the blank. 31:20.999 --> 31:26.304 [SPEAKER_00]: and brother, it's a lie, like it's just wrong. 31:26.905 --> 31:29.587 [SPEAKER_00]: And in this case, you're often hurting mostly you first. 31:29.607 --> 31:35.873 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just living in a world of deceit and then, but then you lash out at somebody else for not helping the way you think they should. 31:35.893 --> 31:37.915 [SPEAKER_00]: And so anyway, I just wanted to chime in on that. 31:38.015 --> 31:39.056 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm super guilty of that. 31:39.376 --> 31:40.997 [SPEAKER_00]: And it is at heart, you totally right, bro. 31:41.017 --> 31:41.598 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's at heart. 31:41.738 --> 31:42.119 [SPEAKER_00]: It's bright. 31:42.519 --> 31:47.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it, and I, I, we all, I think we fair. 31:47.206 --> 31:48.067 [SPEAKER_01]: We all struggle with this. 31:48.127 --> 31:54.075 [SPEAKER_01]: The last one and then when we move on, but in this is one that I think I see, so you said leadership. 31:55.457 --> 31:56.779 [SPEAKER_01]: We have the wonderful gift. 31:57.000 --> 31:58.542 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a pastor for a lot of a lot of years. 32:00.027 --> 32:01.669 [SPEAKER_01]: we do work in and through the church. 32:01.949 --> 32:06.955 [SPEAKER_01]: Intentional does, you do, we are Christians, we speak at different churches on Sundays. 32:07.395 --> 32:10.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we are very involved with church. 32:10.859 --> 32:16.405 [SPEAKER_01]: But spiritual pride is one of the more interestingly disgusting things I see. 32:17.266 --> 32:18.627 [SPEAKER_01]: In my own life, I'll start with me. 32:19.248 --> 32:20.789 [SPEAKER_01]: but also in the life of the church. 32:21.069 --> 32:32.136 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not necessarily always outside of Christianity or different religions that we see this, but let me just tell you a couple phrases of what that shows up like. 32:32.677 --> 32:35.038 [SPEAKER_01]: Spiritual probably basically says, I'm more mature. 32:35.418 --> 32:37.240 [SPEAKER_01]: Like everyone, I'm more mature than you. 32:37.460 --> 32:37.840 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't know. 32:38.260 --> 32:39.341 [SPEAKER_01]: I understand theology better. 32:40.402 --> 32:42.543 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm theologically sharper than you are. 32:43.764 --> 32:45.405 [SPEAKER_01]: My family does things the right way. 32:46.365 --> 32:52.908 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, with intentional, I cannot tell you our main job is taking ourselves off of people's pedestals that we've never asked to be on. 32:53.428 --> 32:57.370 [SPEAKER_01]: People have these assumptions that we would assume because of the work we do, like we figured it out. 32:57.830 --> 32:58.831 [SPEAKER_01]: It's in fact the opposite. 32:58.951 --> 33:00.572 [SPEAKER_01]: It's because life is so hard. 33:01.792 --> 33:04.673 [SPEAKER_00]: I was not tracking with that language because I expected you to say the opposite. 33:04.934 --> 33:09.195 [SPEAKER_00]: You just said, taking yourself off other people's pedestals. 33:10.476 --> 33:15.422 [SPEAKER_01]: I think because of the work we do, people will put us on this pedestal naturally of the line. 33:15.462 --> 33:16.943 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got a lot of the stuff figured out. 33:16.983 --> 33:20.287 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you talk about it because you're trying certain things. 33:20.647 --> 33:21.989 [SPEAKER_01]: You must have this figured out. 33:23.090 --> 33:25.372 [SPEAKER_01]: We are constantly trying to shout from the rooftops. 33:25.633 --> 33:27.275 [SPEAKER_01]: We do not have this figured out. 33:27.755 --> 33:31.719 [SPEAKER_01]: We, in fact, have a very complicated situation and we fail all the time. 33:32.560 --> 33:43.806 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what happens, if you have microphones or internet or whatever and you're speaking to somebody and you become an influence of encouragement in their life, I do this with people you do this. 33:44.306 --> 33:44.806 [SPEAKER_01]: It happens. 33:44.866 --> 33:45.547 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a human thing. 33:45.567 --> 33:49.389 [SPEAKER_01]: We put people on this pedestal like they must be doing it way better. 33:50.409 --> 33:59.354 [SPEAKER_01]: We're constantly having to take ourselves off of the pedestal of other people's lives and say, no, that's not actually true and don't believe the lie we're struggling just as much as you are. 34:00.105 --> 34:07.571 [SPEAKER_01]: And if not, if I start acting like my family does it the right way, like a spiritual pride, a couple more, my convictions are stronger. 34:07.591 --> 34:10.534 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just a more disciplined person than you. 34:10.714 --> 34:13.116 [SPEAKER_01]: A spiritual pride or my kids behave better. 34:13.136 --> 34:18.340 [SPEAKER_01]: So these are like forms of it that I see in and out of the church. 34:18.520 --> 34:26.046 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to give that, I want to give that list because if you are listening to this and you were like, I only struggle with pride, 34:27.047 --> 34:46.342 [SPEAKER_01]: Now apply those lenses and I promise we all do and I think with the point that we're trying to make even this more even right now it's just to say we are in fact all constantly struggle with this in ways that are so under the radar so yeah I think this is this is the lenses this where we want to go. 34:46.562 --> 34:59.299 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I want to add two to that list and then ask you a question just to move it even more to the extreme I think of violence and disobedience as 35:01.200 --> 35:02.321 [SPEAKER_00]: downstream forms of pride. 35:02.542 --> 35:04.544 [SPEAKER_00]: And I say, I think of, um, they are. 35:05.645 --> 35:12.933 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you, you listen to my experience, it is like, I didn't need to stop with that stuff like because, you know, the rules don't apply to me in this particular situation. 35:13.994 --> 35:15.155 [SPEAKER_00]: But it might escalate from that. 35:15.195 --> 35:17.798 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the way that your kid thinks, well, but he took that. 35:18.138 --> 35:18.879 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why did you hit him? 35:18.919 --> 35:20.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he, because because he did X. 35:21.622 --> 35:41.595 [SPEAKER_00]: Pride is what disoriented us to make us at the center of the universe and we start to think what that rule doesn't apply to me and we will actually do little things like litter when nobody's looking because it's just one we hate it when we look at other people doing it but we'll do it or bigger things like 35:42.968 --> 36:06.190 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, maybe that was a work expense, maybe that was a personal expense, but like, you know, in my head, you started justify from your point of view, why this particular rule in the workplace or according to church policies or whatever it is doesn't apply to you, and then you just, you know, spin this out and this is where we get the societal chaos that we get. 36:06.830 --> 36:10.991 [SPEAKER_00]: because everybody's a law unto themselves and think the rules don't apply to them and they're violent towards each other. 36:11.031 --> 36:18.653 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, we're talking to an audience mostly of quote unquote well-behaved people, but pride is nations at war. 36:18.733 --> 36:19.573 [SPEAKER_00]: Pride is murder. 36:20.173 --> 36:21.774 [SPEAKER_00]: Pride is spousal abuse. 36:21.814 --> 36:23.314 [SPEAKER_00]: Pride is abortion. 36:23.354 --> 36:29.676 [SPEAKER_00]: Pride is all the things that ALS stem from this despicable perspective. 36:30.236 --> 36:37.722 [SPEAKER_00]: that we and not God are the center of the universe or that we and not the brothers, sister, standing across for us are more important. 36:38.503 --> 36:49.691 [SPEAKER_00]: And my question, my question I want to pose to you, Brooke, is, you know, seen rightly pride is like a blood type almost. 36:49.752 --> 36:50.132 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, 36:50.872 --> 36:53.574 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we even begin to get ourselves out of this mess? 36:53.614 --> 36:54.934 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it is our DNA. 36:55.435 --> 36:57.015 [SPEAKER_00]: It is so on composing. 36:57.476 --> 37:11.743 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you see pride rightly, the only response is that center in the gospels who falls to his knees in the back of the worship service and beats his chest and says, Lord, have mercy on me, a center. 37:13.364 --> 37:19.447 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the right response before pride is to realize how hopeless you are. 37:20.467 --> 37:33.610 [SPEAKER_00]: But God opposes the proud, yes, because grace of the humble, I want to ask you like, in a world where pride levels us so much and where we seem so hopeless, like how do you even begin to practice something that is different than pride? 37:33.630 --> 37:35.030 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you begin to practice humility? 37:35.230 --> 37:40.452 [SPEAKER_00]: I can imagine for every other sins like well, here's some ways to counteract envy or navigate around 37:48.375 --> 37:49.117 [SPEAKER_00]: What would you say that? 37:49.618 --> 37:50.401 [SPEAKER_01]: I have some thoughts. 37:52.968 --> 37:53.810 [SPEAKER_01]: I have some thoughts, but. 37:55.528 --> 38:01.810 [SPEAKER_01]: one of the things that you're saying, because you're basically, you're kind of saying, how do you pre-game humility, right? 38:01.850 --> 38:04.311 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you ramp up even to that idea? 38:04.351 --> 38:07.612 [SPEAKER_01]: Because how do you be something that you so obviously are not? 38:08.372 --> 38:11.853 [SPEAKER_00]: This reminds me of what you said the other day, is like, well, I guess it doesn't make sense with another whole experience. 38:11.933 --> 38:17.795 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're truly trying to be fish out of water when we'd be humans that are humble. 38:18.135 --> 38:19.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just not the, 38:19.595 --> 38:19.875 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 38:20.476 --> 38:32.367 [SPEAKER_01]: And to what you were saying, you know, even when, as you were quoting me just a moment ago, that was in context of me sharing the story of, there'll be a lot of folks in our life right now that will be like, how are you holding you together? 38:32.407 --> 38:35.210 [SPEAKER_01]: How are you fine with all stuff going on with your wife and how busy things are? 38:36.031 --> 38:40.675 [SPEAKER_01]: And the phrase that I said to you was like, well, my life really doesn't make sense without the Holy Spirit. 38:40.775 --> 38:43.778 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if people don't understand that element, 38:45.125 --> 38:46.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it looks crazy. 38:46.225 --> 38:54.749 [SPEAKER_01]: It looks like either we're going to die or like we have some super power we don't like, yeah, it runs and lives on and survives with the Holy Spirit exclusively. 38:54.869 --> 38:59.051 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why that's how we're crushed about destroyed. 38:59.391 --> 39:00.491 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a truth for all of us. 39:00.531 --> 39:09.315 [SPEAKER_01]: But underneath pride, at least in my experience, and if you even think about this story I shared at the beginning, it's the desire to matter. 39:10.657 --> 39:10.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 39:10.877 --> 39:11.738 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the desire to matter. 39:11.858 --> 39:13.581 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I have, I want to matter. 39:13.721 --> 39:14.823 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to matter to my wife. 39:14.983 --> 39:16.065 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to matter to everybody. 39:16.085 --> 39:17.668 [SPEAKER_01]: I want my opinions to matter. 39:18.249 --> 39:19.130 [SPEAKER_01]: I want my... 39:20.538 --> 39:21.538 [SPEAKER_01]: situation to matter. 39:21.559 --> 39:37.566 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to matter in the world like how many countless guys and I won't even say when and where I've talked to these guys so that you experience in any of our events and any of the people that your own events when we're at our own intentional events like that I experience men especially saying, I make good money. 39:38.206 --> 39:40.127 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a great job, but it just doesn't feel 39:41.115 --> 39:41.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 39:41.715 --> 39:42.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 39:42.596 --> 39:45.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just I don't feel like it's my I'm not doing something that matters. 39:46.498 --> 39:47.939 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm making tons of money at this job. 39:48.039 --> 39:51.021 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like literally changing whole nations with the amount of money I make. 39:51.821 --> 39:52.542 [SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't matter. 39:52.562 --> 39:53.763 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm about to give up the whole thing. 39:53.783 --> 39:58.065 [SPEAKER_01]: You realize like there's a form of pride in that like to an extent. 39:58.465 --> 39:59.446 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's the desire to matter. 39:59.826 --> 40:05.730 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think what Jesus invites us to is instead of desiring to matter is desiring to be. 40:06.590 --> 40:09.432 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that sounds very simple, but I know for me it's 40:11.140 --> 40:16.343 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to learn that it is not what we do, it's who we are, that is the most important part. 40:16.963 --> 40:22.206 [SPEAKER_01]: And we want to be seen, we want to be known, we want to be all about that. 40:22.226 --> 40:31.112 [SPEAKER_01]: And those desires aren't evil, obviously, but we have to remember like the invitation to matter was not what Jesus was inviting us into. 40:31.152 --> 40:32.372 [SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't his invitation. 40:32.452 --> 40:36.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm inviting you to matter and feel really good about yourself and your position 40:41.598 --> 40:43.902 [SPEAKER_01]: really become something for other people. 40:45.304 --> 40:50.212 [SPEAKER_01]: If that's the case, humility is the only thing that that actually makes sense. 40:50.312 --> 40:55.420 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's first to understand, like, where is that desire to matter taking over? 40:56.210 --> 40:57.010 [SPEAKER_01]: in areas of your life. 40:57.230 --> 41:04.613 [SPEAKER_01]: Even your job, like, that would be my effort, like, how do you bring game humility, start with the thing before, which is, where's this tripping me up? 41:05.013 --> 41:12.375 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're some people sacrifice or make really terrible decisions, because they desire to matter so much. 41:12.875 --> 41:13.035 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 41:14.176 --> 41:21.278 [SPEAKER_01]: So if that's the case, I think it's then moving to the reality in my life in experience, I won't ask the same question to you, but in my life in experience, 41:22.859 --> 41:30.124 [SPEAKER_01]: you have to get to a spot where you actually try to do, to live the way of Jesus, meaning he said is better to give them to receive. 41:30.444 --> 41:32.126 [SPEAKER_01]: So you either believe that or you don't. 41:32.966 --> 41:37.169 [SPEAKER_01]: And most of us are just living with that as a good idea that we don't actually operate in. 41:37.229 --> 41:43.274 [SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing I say is like, just give one day, a 24 hour period, actually don't even do 24 hours because you sleep in half of it. 41:43.294 --> 41:47.397 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're probably only sleeping five hours if you're an adult, but you know, you get the idea. 41:47.457 --> 41:49.218 [SPEAKER_01]: You have about 12 hours when everyone's away. 41:49.238 --> 41:50.219 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I always say for those 12 hours? 41:51.299 --> 42:16.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Pick a day when it's realistic and just try to give more than you take I would literally say how can I do it and don't even tell your wife don't tell your kids literally like I actually find truly Experiments like this help me in a very healthy sense cameify my faith and just almost like Between me it's like a a secret between me and God like hey, I'm gonna try today 42:17.345 --> 42:24.551 [SPEAKER_01]: to love my family well, and I'm not going to, I don't need to tell anybody about it because then it becomes about me and it's like a, you got a very spiritual, right? 42:24.571 --> 42:25.472 [SPEAKER_01]: Like because that's not the point. 42:25.512 --> 42:27.313 [SPEAKER_01]: The point isn't for anybody to even know. 42:27.353 --> 42:30.036 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, God, I want to take this 12 hour period. 42:30.216 --> 42:31.036 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to try this. 42:31.116 --> 42:34.339 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the rules of it, and then I'm going to reflect on it the next day. 42:34.899 --> 42:39.743 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really things like, how can I with your spirit try to serve everyone around me today? 42:46.113 --> 42:54.016 [SPEAKER_01]: my desires, my preferences, I'm going to just lean into it and then just be objective and how did yesterday go? 42:54.176 --> 42:55.016 [SPEAKER_01]: What did you feel? 42:55.116 --> 42:56.097 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it an easier day? 42:56.157 --> 42:57.137 [SPEAKER_01]: Did your family like you more? 42:57.157 --> 42:58.117 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you like you more? 42:59.078 --> 43:08.441 [SPEAKER_01]: It's things like this that I would say are actually immensely helpful with trying to live the way of Jesus because he's always inviting us into a deeper way of flourishing. 43:08.501 --> 43:12.563 [SPEAKER_01]: We just usually aren't living it and we don't have any framework of what it even feels like. 43:12.603 --> 43:13.323 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would just say, 43:14.143 --> 43:20.949 [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever you can in these micro ways, just take it half a day and try to live like Jesus with the power of the Spirit and just see what you feel. 43:21.029 --> 43:24.753 [SPEAKER_01]: I promise it was pretty addictive and you're like, I like that and do you better? 43:25.213 --> 43:41.327 [SPEAKER_00]: In something like that, do you find more reward and satisfaction and what do you see the Lord doing as you try to step into obedience or do you find more like humility of like, oh my gosh, I can't even for 12 hours do what I intend to do. 43:42.500 --> 43:46.861 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's both like it's both wow. 43:47.682 --> 43:50.703 [SPEAKER_01]: I went, I set out to be humble all day and I failed half of it. 43:50.883 --> 43:52.123 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the, and let me be fair. 43:52.483 --> 43:54.144 [SPEAKER_01]: So everyone's realistic in their approach. 43:54.304 --> 43:54.524 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 43:54.684 --> 43:57.045 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not gonna hit 100% on that because it's new. 43:58.245 --> 44:18.112 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think over and over as you try these things, you actually do end up just like Jesus would promise You become slowly each day more like him and you start to go maybe I don't need my way I told my son something the other night This is a very minor funny story, but I have teenage kids as you do 44:18.892 --> 44:30.880 [SPEAKER_01]: But two of my kids are teenagers and I love Duke and Scarlett there I love them to Yeah, I love you every they love you even yesterday Scarlett didn't voice memo me. 44:31.060 --> 44:33.862 [SPEAKER_01]: She voiced memode Me and Justin. 44:33.882 --> 44:34.823 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like okay dad. 44:34.863 --> 44:35.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey Justin. 44:36.103 --> 44:40.786 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just need like I'm thinking about coming to the in the room thing And I want to hang out with you guys because I love you guys, but 44:41.687 --> 44:47.070 [SPEAKER_01]: friends also going to see the Spider-Man movie guys what should I do it's like sees Spider-Man. 44:47.090 --> 44:52.854 [SPEAKER_01]: We both like you want to hang out with a bunch of dudes like this girl she's like I was leaning towards that too. 44:52.934 --> 44:53.694 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay thanks guys. 44:53.734 --> 44:54.475 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah anyway. 44:55.935 --> 45:00.937 [SPEAKER_01]: What I love about them is that they're, they're just, they're real, they're fun, they're all that stuff. 45:01.918 --> 45:11.402 [SPEAKER_01]: I said to myself on the internet because we had this interaction, which you know, don't have it with the boy and girl dynamic specifically as I have a firstborn son. 45:12.182 --> 45:21.104 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I have a daughter and in a lot of situations when you have a first born son, a first born daughter and a first born son, often operate as first born. 45:21.284 --> 45:30.646 [SPEAKER_01]: So Scarlet as much more as the typical, you know, um, trappings of a first born child rather than like the second born traditional, this can happen this very normal. 45:30.866 --> 45:38.168 [SPEAKER_01]: But that just means they're both very strong and opinionated and have differences of, you know, they're just strong towards each other. 45:38.188 --> 45:40.949 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other night, she had made some comment about something. 45:42.349 --> 46:05.382 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was really quick to be like here's my opinion, and here's why that's stupid and here is You got to think like think about this different and I stopped him and I just said, hey, son I want to give you the gift of remembering that everybody wants or needs your opinion on everything He's like 46:06.423 --> 46:07.745 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, it's a pretty good opinion. 46:07.765 --> 46:08.967 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, it was a pretty good take. 46:09.287 --> 46:12.512 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a good, like, yes, but I want to give you the gift. 46:12.872 --> 46:15.016 [SPEAKER_01]: So listen, or can I just give you what I've given my sandwich. 46:15.116 --> 46:22.286 [SPEAKER_01]: Many other have given to me as a piece of wisdom when I was young, not everybody needs to know your opinion and what you think about the thing. 46:23.027 --> 46:28.335 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm saying that is a little story in tongue and cheek because we move through the world that way. 46:28.415 --> 46:30.618 [SPEAKER_01]: We move through the world that everybody wants to know. 46:30.959 --> 46:32.521 [SPEAKER_01]: My mother-in-law Diane said something. 46:33.783 --> 46:37.668 [SPEAKER_01]: That was really insightful and she's 68 almost. 46:38.069 --> 46:38.630 [SPEAKER_01]: She said something. 46:41.051 --> 46:48.858 [SPEAKER_01]: I asked her a question and she said, it's really good to learn that not everybody wants to know what you think about that before. 46:49.699 --> 46:51.000 [SPEAKER_01]: And that they don't need to hear it. 46:51.501 --> 46:54.363 [SPEAKER_01]: And that we don't need to give our opinion on everything. 46:55.144 --> 47:02.351 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was just a wonderful reminder again of like if we started to understand that now in our life with our family, 47:04.333 --> 47:06.816 [SPEAKER_01]: I think humility would look like holding your tongue more. 47:07.397 --> 47:14.346 [SPEAKER_01]: It would look like, being slow to speak or critical, and honestly just being okay with the fact that you can't control that situation. 47:14.386 --> 47:14.647 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 47:15.348 --> 47:17.991 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like that outcome, but I'm not entitled to it. 47:18.031 --> 47:19.112 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, another form of pride. 47:19.513 --> 47:19.713 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 47:21.215 --> 47:25.719 [SPEAKER_01]: you get to a spot where you go, you know what, I'm not better, not, you know, martyrdom, remember? 47:26.639 --> 47:30.282 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay and good for me to serve people, just like they would serve me. 47:30.542 --> 47:45.374 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the biggest lessons I've had to learn and I want to hear all your thoughts on this and I'll end here but one of the biggest thoughts or lessons that this season's taught me with my wife and her health and becoming a full on caregiver for a season is 47:49.485 --> 47:50.065 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a gift. 47:50.105 --> 47:50.726 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard. 47:50.926 --> 47:55.769 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm not some trustworthy she can give you some good receipts on how much I've not done this well. 47:56.889 --> 48:07.036 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's really good to be able to give somebody have the gift of giving somebody something when they can really give nothing back. 48:08.656 --> 48:17.878 [SPEAKER_01]: And to remember, you know, something that always helps me when I'm, you know, even those first days of in weeks of surgery when, I mean, this isn't too much assurance she would be fine. 48:17.898 --> 48:28.641 [SPEAKER_01]: But like when I'm literally having to help her shower and having to be like one to literally dry her off to be the one to literally help every part of getting dressed, every part of her routine, realizing like, 48:30.627 --> 48:34.548 [SPEAKER_01]: She would do this for me, and there's probably gonna be a day when that's the case. 48:35.149 --> 48:42.531 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a good, I mean, it's so it's humbling, but it also is it's good. 48:42.631 --> 48:45.732 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually good for me, but it doesn't mean it's easy. 48:45.752 --> 48:46.853 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean I like any of this. 48:46.873 --> 48:48.733 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean like I'm signing up for more. 48:49.093 --> 48:56.276 [SPEAKER_01]: It just means that those things, if we can get to a spot and remember, those are actually really good things for us. 48:57.756 --> 48:58.216 [SPEAKER_01]: And they suck. 48:58.577 --> 48:59.137 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the same thing. 49:01.474 --> 49:02.156 [SPEAKER_00]: it's so hard. 49:03.619 --> 49:11.777 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I feel compelled to say that if you get pride. 49:13.624 --> 49:17.566 [SPEAKER_00]: then you are going to desperately see your need for Jesus. 49:18.607 --> 49:33.956 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this one, this sin, more than anything else brings us to the heart of the gospel, which is, you know, seen rightly, you are really a bent and broken selfish person that does violence to yourself and others. 49:35.017 --> 49:38.899 [SPEAKER_00]: And what hope do you have unless God is merciful to you? 49:39.150 --> 49:39.370 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 49:40.330 --> 49:51.394 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember if I mentioned this earlier, um, one of the other weird things I did in prepping for this season was go back and read centers in the hand of an angry god by Jonathan Edwards. 49:51.454 --> 49:52.915 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great one. 49:53.275 --> 49:59.898 [SPEAKER_00]: I first read this sermon as a, yeah, hand greater, maybe English literature. 49:59.918 --> 50:01.478 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't till I was laid in the game. 50:01.498 --> 50:03.279 [SPEAKER_01]: I was in my mid twenties when I first heard that. 50:03.319 --> 50:03.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 50:04.079 --> 50:12.786 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was a sign to us as like understanding, you know, Puritan literature and it was definitely taught to me then and then again in college as an English literature major. 50:14.227 --> 50:19.912 [SPEAKER_00]: As like an example of sort of like the wild Puritans who like, you know, they really kind of got hard in the paint. 50:21.714 --> 50:26.758 [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly it was like taught with like a real sense of like cheeky irony, like can you believe these people? 50:28.399 --> 50:43.192 [SPEAKER_00]: I read it and it just rang so true to me as a 41 year old and a way that is a teenager I just sort of accepted my English teachers words of like this is sort of a silly perspective. 50:43.921 --> 50:49.284 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I've lived long enough to realize now, oh my gosh, I do deserve judgment. 50:49.924 --> 50:50.644 [SPEAKER_00]: I am not good. 50:52.365 --> 50:53.586 [SPEAKER_00]: And it so does everybody else. 50:53.606 --> 50:56.487 [SPEAKER_00]: So you live long enough to realize, oh my wife is selfish. 50:56.607 --> 50:57.468 [SPEAKER_00]: My kids are selfish. 50:57.628 --> 50:58.188 [SPEAKER_00]: I am selfish. 50:58.248 --> 50:59.308 [SPEAKER_00]: My coworkers are selfish. 51:01.229 --> 51:04.011 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody I encounter has themselves at the center. 51:04.311 --> 51:05.711 [SPEAKER_00]: There's one human being. 51:07.168 --> 51:11.229 [SPEAKER_00]: ever named Jesus, who came with an other centered perspective. 51:11.469 --> 51:17.912 [SPEAKER_00]: There's one man, the God man, Jesus, who came and said, I'm actually equal to God, but I'm not even going to grasp for that. 51:18.032 --> 51:27.615 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to consider others more important than myself, and in humility, suffer and die on behalf of sinners who don't deserve any of it. 51:29.676 --> 51:34.341 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the place of the seven deadly sins funneled rightly. 51:34.401 --> 51:43.430 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think dump you into a perspective of realizing your bent and messed up and so is the world and what hope do we have? 51:51.301 --> 51:54.664 [SPEAKER_00]: He gives grace to the humble how did that happen because I'm not humble. 51:54.904 --> 51:55.084 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 51:55.204 --> 51:56.606 [SPEAKER_00]: And the it's the amazing. 51:56.646 --> 52:00.469 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why pride is I think the most clarifying lens for the gospel. 52:01.570 --> 52:08.216 [SPEAKER_00]: It's because Jesus said in the great exchange, I'm going to give you my humility and take your and your judgment and in the spirit. 52:08.916 --> 52:15.982 [SPEAKER_00]: We get the secret power of the Holy Spirit to actually start to imitate Jesus, which is the only reason that like you could do something like. 52:16.943 --> 52:33.433 [SPEAKER_00]: dabble in it for 12 hours and be like let me try to walk in the spirit for just 12 hours and see if I can serve my family or let me reflect correctly on the last night and be like I don't need to lash out at somebody or let me reevaluate that conversation with my wife why am I blaming her for my problems or 52:33.953 --> 52:47.280 [SPEAKER_00]: How am I snapping on my kids that any glint of humility is the result of the Holy Spirit's work in our life, changing our blood type, right, with Jesus' blood, saying, now, be set free. 52:47.320 --> 52:51.322 [SPEAKER_00]: Senator, I love, I'll conclude this little train of thought. 52:51.342 --> 52:57.785 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing a lot of our listeners have heard of Ortonlund's book, gentle one, Loli. 53:04.684 --> 53:10.169 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I loved about it was at the end where almost every author says something like, well, what do you do now? 53:12.691 --> 53:14.293 [SPEAKER_00]: He writes nothing. 53:15.468 --> 53:20.489 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's very similar to what you just said, um, Brooke, maybe five minutes ago. 53:20.509 --> 53:25.250 [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is calling us to be, there is a real true sense. 53:26.110 --> 53:41.773 [SPEAKER_00]: I think when you encounter the gospel of fresh, that you're set free to be still for a minute and realize that the most important thing to do is realize that there's nothing you can do and just rest in the goodness of a God who saved you from all your pride. 53:43.745 --> 53:49.787 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be an ex-breath while you realize that, oh, in light of that, I actually want to get up and do a lot of things. 53:50.707 --> 53:55.808 [SPEAKER_00]: But that comes from like the excitement and our participants got and try to practice this. 53:55.848 --> 54:01.330 [SPEAKER_00]: But I really, I really want to underline that. 54:03.081 --> 54:12.157 [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is the only person to be truly humble and because of that we're set for you to now imitate him. 54:13.078 --> 54:13.840 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really good news. 54:14.999 --> 54:25.687 [SPEAKER_01]: incredible news and really quickly goes over our head, I think a lot of the times in the Christian space especially because we're so used to hearing these phrases, but we're not used to experiencing them. 54:26.347 --> 54:30.470 [SPEAKER_01]: We hear it all the time, but when you experience it, just even a taste of it, you know, it's not hard. 54:32.152 --> 54:36.815 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I think about what is pride looking for like pride in my life? 54:38.170 --> 54:43.013 [SPEAKER_01]: even if all the stories that we've shared here, it's ultimately, if you kind of scale back, it's looking for glory. 54:43.274 --> 54:44.214 [SPEAKER_00]: Pride's looking for glory. 54:44.414 --> 54:48.978 [SPEAKER_01]: It's looking for hey validate me, glory. 54:49.138 --> 54:52.220 [SPEAKER_01]: The funniest thing about glory is we were not meant to hold it. 54:53.141 --> 54:59.385 [SPEAKER_01]: So let me just give another, just practical way this shows up even in real life for me. 55:00.959 --> 55:07.362 [SPEAKER_01]: When you start doing work in a public sense, and you know this as well, and just and I really like very honest about this stuff because there's no reason not to. 55:07.422 --> 55:12.645 [SPEAKER_01]: And we recognize that some of you have work life and we all have different lives and different colleagues. 55:13.185 --> 55:19.589 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't think it's actually always that great that we do work that has a lot of eyes on it, but we know that there's a responsibility with it. 55:19.629 --> 55:20.910 [SPEAKER_01]: There is different pressures with it. 55:21.910 --> 55:22.490 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'll say this. 55:23.471 --> 55:31.295 [SPEAKER_01]: Any time, again, that idea of taking our selves off of other people's pedestals, I'm not meant for glory. 55:31.555 --> 55:32.275 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't hold it. 55:32.795 --> 55:39.719 [SPEAKER_01]: When people want to think us or and that's great noble, by the way, really actually appreciate gratitude and thankfulness. 55:40.239 --> 55:41.160 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not what I'm talking about. 55:41.180 --> 55:42.580 [SPEAKER_01]: When people just 55:44.161 --> 55:53.245 [SPEAKER_01]: put a level of, you know what I mean, like focus and attention and almost like this praise, like this is so amazing, it's so helpful. 55:53.305 --> 56:05.691 [SPEAKER_01]: And no, I'm not saying that in the form of pride, I'm actually saying that in a sense of like when those moments happen, it starts to do something weird and it's uncomfortable because it feels, you know, you know, it's unfitting. 56:06.151 --> 56:08.772 [SPEAKER_00]: It's you know, it's like putting the moon at the center of the solar system. 56:08.852 --> 56:09.452 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, things about to get 56:12.914 --> 56:41.465 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not because they don't appreciate what they're saying and and any listener that understands this or let me help you understand this, what you're saying is that God used some of your story in your life and your stuff to do something meaningful in me, and now I have to be honest, of course, trust in you were a part of that, of course, maybe I was a part of that, but I wasn't the transformation agent the spirit was, and that's the where the glory days to go to gratitude for those who obey, but outside of obedience, 56:42.165 --> 56:48.652 [SPEAKER_01]: don't give me all the praise because when people when that happens I quickly realize like I'm not meant for this many eyes. 56:48.933 --> 56:57.082 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not meant because it actually starts to crush you and this is why you you see a famed destroy people in so many ways. 56:58.242 --> 57:05.026 [SPEAKER_01]: No one's meant to hold glory, and when we try to, or think like maybe I can manage it, you become undone. 57:05.346 --> 57:11.049 [SPEAKER_01]: And so humility helps us get to a spot where we put the glory in the right place. 57:11.469 --> 57:12.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Not at a false humility, right? 57:12.830 --> 57:12.970 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 57:13.410 --> 57:20.794 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, truly, give God the glory because there's no way I'm smart enough to get into your story and change your heart and the trajectory of generations. 57:21.134 --> 57:21.654 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a human. 57:21.954 --> 57:23.695 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, none of us were meant to do. 57:23.795 --> 57:24.195 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 57:24.516 --> 57:28.980 [SPEAKER_01]: So give God the glory, uh-huh, give gratitude, give glory to God. 57:29.000 --> 57:31.722 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you've gratitude to us and we can be done with it. 57:31.762 --> 57:32.103 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 57:32.783 --> 57:45.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I would love to steer our last few minutes here into putting that into application and a father's typical life stage for the most of our listeners. 57:45.395 --> 57:46.556 [SPEAKER_00]: And the way I'm thinking about that, Brooke, is 57:49.084 --> 58:02.102 [SPEAKER_00]: When you were saying all that the gravity analogy comes into play, you know, earlier you said, pride is the desire to matter, you know, it's desire to have, have gravity be at the center. 58:03.958 --> 58:14.323 [SPEAKER_00]: When we do that, when you put something that can't hold it at the center, like putting the moon at the center of the solar system, everything gets out of balance and out of whack. 58:15.564 --> 58:25.889 [SPEAKER_00]: And the wonderful opposite of that, we've been calling it humility because it is, I really liked the way Tim Keller put this in a couple of sermons. 58:27.690 --> 58:31.172 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a virtue of self-forgiveness, like, 58:32.961 --> 58:43.930 [SPEAKER_00]: focusing more on God and others because you forgot finally finally forgotten about yourself it's putting them at the center right so I just want to think about this in the context of your actual family right now. 58:44.670 --> 58:45.691 [SPEAKER_00]: Listener what would it be like to 58:48.370 --> 58:56.774 [SPEAKER_00]: be more humble by being more self-forgetful and saying, I want to glorify God and my family, I want to make my wife and my kids the center. 58:56.934 --> 58:58.875 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to be the center anymore. 58:58.895 --> 59:00.355 [SPEAKER_00]: Like my opinions don't need to be harder. 59:00.375 --> 59:02.576 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't necessarily need to be heard all the time. 59:02.856 --> 59:04.337 [SPEAKER_00]: That sort of stuff. 59:04.357 --> 59:09.099 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it really comes into play with this idea that you said earlier. 59:11.420 --> 59:14.341 [SPEAKER_00]: We feel entitled to a life that no one actually promised us. 59:15.022 --> 59:15.642 [SPEAKER_00]: This is probably 59:18.267 --> 59:40.721 [SPEAKER_00]: The most typical way I see pride playing out for fathers in the give your life away stage, we are so pridefully clinging to the life that we imagine for ourselves, the, whether it's the Saturday we wanted for ourselves or like the house we wanted for ourselves or the life phase we wanted for ourselves, we're clinging to these prideful dreams of how it was supposed to be. 59:43.132 --> 59:46.998 [SPEAKER_00]: instead of relinquishing this entitlement that by the way, no one ever promised you. 59:47.800 --> 59:52.427 [SPEAKER_00]: And saying, how can my life actually be about loving God and serving my family in the life I actually have? 59:52.888 --> 59:54.811 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how you live the life you actually have? 59:55.880 --> 01:00:17.174 [SPEAKER_00]: I think humility is the only way to surrender, to see the life that you actually have is particularly beautiful and God given and there's a lot for you here, but you're never going to get there unless you let go of that entitlement to the prideful life you wanted and start to have joy in the life you actually have. 01:00:18.294 --> 01:00:19.875 [SPEAKER_00]: Any practices or thoughts for that? 01:00:19.915 --> 01:00:22.057 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have a lot, but I think we'll 01:00:22.917 --> 01:00:26.619 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, every one that we've talked about up to this point will also help. 01:00:26.739 --> 01:00:37.203 [SPEAKER_01]: So every episode that I think you have connected about, I would say, the things of prayer, the different rhythms or habits or things that we've talked about throughout every episode of the season so far. 01:00:37.916 --> 01:00:41.137 [SPEAKER_01]: will be immensely helpful towards moving towards humility. 01:00:42.138 --> 01:00:45.819 [SPEAKER_01]: But humility, I think, is a little different. 01:00:45.959 --> 01:00:48.260 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a muscle and exercise analogy. 01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:48.720 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll get it. 01:00:49.380 --> 01:00:52.161 [SPEAKER_01]: But your humility might be really weak right now. 01:00:52.602 --> 01:00:54.562 [SPEAKER_01]: And you need to like build it up. 01:00:55.022 --> 01:01:00.244 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the way you do that is by practicing it, the more you practice it, these your gets, the stronger it becomes. 01:01:00.304 --> 01:01:04.566 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would put this in the category of some of you are like anemic. 01:01:04.906 --> 01:01:06.668 [SPEAKER_01]: And need and have almost no muscle. 01:01:06.708 --> 01:01:12.654 [SPEAKER_01]: You're just a skeleton, so to speak, skin and bones of humility, and you want to become a bodybuilder in that sense. 01:01:12.774 --> 01:01:13.175 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:01:13.775 --> 01:01:17.439 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, just visualizing all the Arnold Schwarzenegger from the 75's, right? 01:01:17.779 --> 01:01:27.089 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, my son and I watched Pumping Iron, that was the most amazing movie to watch with him for so many reasons, which you're laughing about for a good reason. 01:01:27.791 --> 01:01:28.934 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was amazing. 01:01:28.994 --> 01:01:34.833 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I think so if what I actually said earlier is what I would go back to. 01:01:36.374 --> 01:01:39.036 [SPEAKER_01]: find today and just practice humility. 01:01:39.056 --> 01:01:40.037 [SPEAKER_01]: Make it manageable. 01:01:40.177 --> 01:01:42.418 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't try to be a super hero. 01:01:43.179 --> 01:01:45.421 [SPEAKER_01]: Try to find, hey, throughout this one day. 01:01:45.661 --> 01:01:46.962 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're like, that sounds crazy. 01:01:47.042 --> 01:01:47.762 [SPEAKER_01]: Try six hours. 01:01:48.283 --> 01:01:50.564 [SPEAKER_01]: Do it on a day when you're actually at home to though. 01:01:50.624 --> 01:01:51.985 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't just try humility at work. 01:01:52.026 --> 01:01:52.646 [SPEAKER_01]: Try it there. 01:01:52.686 --> 01:01:54.167 [SPEAKER_01]: But do that secondary. 01:01:54.307 --> 01:01:57.329 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot easier to be on your best behavior with people that aren't your family. 01:01:58.330 --> 01:02:03.472 [SPEAKER_01]: It's where it really matters is those who know your best, so don't, I mean do work stuff, but that's going to be a lot easier. 01:02:04.512 --> 01:02:06.053 [SPEAKER_01]: How can you set up a day of humility? 01:02:06.173 --> 01:02:07.993 [SPEAKER_01]: And if there's a couple of practicals, I can give you. 01:02:08.133 --> 01:02:14.375 [SPEAKER_01]: I would literally like a schedule decide the night before, look at it and just say tomorrow. 01:02:15.036 --> 01:02:15.716 [SPEAKER_01]: I am going to be 01:02:16.436 --> 01:02:18.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Practicing because it's not gonna happen right away. 01:02:18.738 --> 01:02:19.038 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 01:02:19.298 --> 01:02:22.080 [SPEAKER_01]: A life of humility That means a couple of things. 01:02:22.100 --> 01:02:31.326 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to try to say yes more than I say no and that doesn't mean to your kids And they're request it means I'm gonna say yes to serving more than I'm gonna say no to serving so how can you say yes to it? 01:02:31.706 --> 01:02:40.631 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would actually make a couple of schedules like I'm going to Intentionally try to serve my wife in this way like pick a couple of things that keep it centered 01:02:41.572 --> 01:02:53.160 [SPEAKER_01]: But then I would also just have, okay, today, God, every time I get an opportunity, help me see humility, help me see serving, and I would just begin to try it, and be patient and go back to it and back to it. 01:02:53.240 --> 01:03:06.589 [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be hugely accompanied, obviously, with prayer, and just going into that, I would do exactly what, you know, Justin, you've talked about the night before you get in your bed, get on your knees and just say, God, please help me, live a life of humility towards my family. 01:03:07.310 --> 01:03:20.000 [SPEAKER_01]: and get in bed and he doesn't need a lot of words to answer that prayer, also he wants to answer that prayer, so he's going to be motivated to give you the strength to do that, and then I would lastly say, be kind with yourself that this is a process and it's a new thing for some. 01:03:20.722 --> 01:03:26.486 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe just to re-up, you know, for some of you just need to re-up and start trying to live the life of Jesus. 01:03:26.526 --> 01:03:27.406 [SPEAKER_01]: That's all I would say. 01:03:27.806 --> 01:03:36.972 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's much more complicated than beginning to see the life that you're living less about you and more for the good of others. 01:03:37.570 --> 01:03:47.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, I'm very intrigued by the idea of just practicing humility and that, like, comically practical sense of like, take a day and actually just try to practice it. 01:03:48.257 --> 01:04:04.368 [SPEAKER_01]: Dayway of Jesus, if you've ever done this, Orberg talked about this, John Orberg, he got it from Dallas Willard, but he wrote an older book and he has the days like, he basically said Willard had given this idea to go away with Jesus for a day and to schedule a day with Jesus and the whole point was he wrote a schedule from eight to nine 01:04:07.430 --> 01:04:13.314 [SPEAKER_01]: going to walk from nine to 10 and enjoy his beauty for the 10 new and I read a piece of scripture. 01:04:13.535 --> 01:04:15.996 [SPEAKER_01]: I take a nap from one to two, scheduling our day with Jesus. 01:04:16.056 --> 01:04:17.497 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it's a similar idea. 01:04:17.958 --> 01:04:22.901 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, okay, here's what I like one that used to be part of our job in China. 01:04:23.102 --> 01:04:24.202 [SPEAKER_00]: We call it day with dad. 01:04:24.823 --> 01:04:29.146 [SPEAKER_00]: Once a month as missionaries, we're required to just go spend a day with Jesus and we're kind of supposed to 01:04:29.406 --> 01:04:55.429 [SPEAKER_00]: A day with dad that's even I was like, yeah, dad was sort of like some of the the the lingo we had words or religious things so that when we would have conversations in public it wouldn't sound Christian anyway so we called it do that but what I like about what you said is it is one thing to go spend a devotional silent you know learning reading praying day with Jesus. 01:04:56.690 --> 01:05:10.840 [SPEAKER_00]: It's another thing to get in front of the mirror of your family and try to be more humble like Jesus, and I like what you're describing because there are two different things in both are extraordinarily valuable, but you begin with your pride is what we can't see in the mirror. 01:05:12.803 --> 01:05:21.447 [SPEAKER_00]: the mirror of our wives, the mirror of our families, that is exactly what shows us all the ways that we are not humble and actually very prideful. 01:05:22.207 --> 01:05:33.652 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just am actually, I think charmed in the best ways by the actual practicality of being like, hey, listen, everyone should set aside a day and try to practice this. 01:05:33.792 --> 01:05:38.094 [SPEAKER_00]: And I suspect you'll be exploring experience more defeat than victory, 01:05:40.375 --> 01:05:49.959 [SPEAKER_00]: a step towards seeing your life more accurately, right, where we said that the beginning that pride is what obscures your view of reality so that you don't see it the way it actually is. 01:05:51.259 --> 01:05:54.181 [SPEAKER_00]: My practicals would be in light of something like that. 01:05:56.261 --> 01:05:59.283 [SPEAKER_00]: Ask your wife in one of your better conversations. 01:05:59.303 --> 01:06:00.423 [SPEAKER_00]: Careful, so be hard. 01:06:02.064 --> 01:06:06.145 [SPEAKER_00]: What do I not see that is obvious to you? 01:06:08.186 --> 01:06:17.912 [SPEAKER_00]: I would ask your friends the same question in a great and maybe not even ask them to answer that evening that you're asking or just say, hey, next time I hang out, I would love you to tell me like, what do I, what do I miss? 01:06:18.332 --> 01:06:21.214 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just not see about me that it's like my biggest problem. 01:06:21.594 --> 01:06:21.774 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:06:22.094 --> 01:06:22.314 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:06:22.854 --> 01:06:23.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh. 01:06:23.335 --> 01:06:28.838 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I would, I would, I would ask God in the same way, but I would do it. 01:06:31.430 --> 01:06:34.771 [SPEAKER_00]: by writing out or saying out loud your prayers. 01:06:35.211 --> 01:06:38.472 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and this is my final practice idea here. 01:06:39.392 --> 01:06:53.835 [SPEAKER_00]: And the next time you have beef with somebody or you could be mad at a coworker, mad at your wife, argument with a friend or family member, I want you to pray out loud to God or write it down and say this is what this person is doing. 01:06:54.615 --> 01:06:57.536 [SPEAKER_00]: Like write out what you actually think they're doing. 01:07:01.517 --> 01:07:04.960 [SPEAKER_00]: to God, how you're seeing other people in the world. 01:07:06.221 --> 01:07:21.011 [SPEAKER_00]: He will, I'm sure be gracious enough to show you the reality of those words and make you realize, oh my gosh, when I stew in my head, in my pride full lens, I had this vision of how the world is and why I'm right now, the people around while people are stupid and what was me. 01:07:21.852 --> 01:07:25.275 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it out loud one time to God in the facade crumbles 01:07:30.063 --> 01:07:32.564 [SPEAKER_00]: oppose you, because you're proud. 01:07:32.604 --> 01:07:34.245 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll say, that is not reality. 01:07:35.066 --> 01:07:42.489 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the gifts of prayer is that you realize that in verbalizing, I think David's doing this all the time in the song. 01:07:42.990 --> 01:07:46.491 [SPEAKER_00]: He's saying stuff that he's not exactly true. 01:07:46.611 --> 01:07:48.713 [SPEAKER_00]: He's just confessing like this is what I want. 01:07:48.773 --> 01:07:57.417 [SPEAKER_00]: We sometimes lamenting sometimes it's just spit, but speaking out loud to God, you are prideful thoughts so that in the holy opposition 01:07:59.698 --> 01:08:08.940 [SPEAKER_00]: Crush the pride and you crush the proud part of you and give grace to the humble part and giving grace to the humble means literally showing you how you're wrong And really it's our only hope. 01:08:09.100 --> 01:08:21.804 [SPEAKER_00]: It's our only hope to see the way that we're Losfog gluttonous, avaricious, greedy Slawful all these things are downstream of pride of you know to see ourselves as we actually are. 01:08:21.824 --> 01:08:26.845 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm hoping Maybe this is a prayer for the listener as we start to wrap up here 01:08:28.186 --> 01:08:47.215 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm hoping that the season feels a little bit different to people, that it feels a little stewy, like bleak in a good way, I've just sort of spending seven weeks talking about all the ways our lives go wrong without immediate fixes, like without immediate, like, oh, these are the best three spiritual disciplines to come about pride. 01:08:47.235 --> 01:08:54.699 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we give it some ideas, but part of dwelling on vice is just to help you see reality more clearly and see how dangerous 01:08:56.840 --> 01:09:00.225 [SPEAKER_00]: and hopefully that drives you to God, drives you to family, drives you to others, drives you for help. 01:09:00.265 --> 01:09:02.368 [SPEAKER_00]: But part of it is just seeing it right. 01:09:02.668 --> 01:09:07.775 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope in the wake of these episodes, you just see a little bit more clearly of, I'm on thin ice. 01:09:08.676 --> 01:09:11.019 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I am a danger to myself. 01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:14.464 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I am lazy or I'm angry. 01:09:15.283 --> 01:09:16.104 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, I'm prideful. 01:09:16.925 --> 01:09:19.828 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the beginning of seeing reality. 01:09:20.589 --> 01:09:23.152 [SPEAKER_00]: And God's mercy is new every morning. 01:09:23.552 --> 01:09:26.896 [SPEAKER_00]: He will help you, but you've got to see reality right. 01:09:29.107 --> 01:09:46.006 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just I'm listening I'm listening just like everybody else that's really it's so important and it is also to say we've said it many times, but it is no it's worth noting again we're in this with you like this is worth as as hopefully this season has 01:09:47.467 --> 01:09:48.067 [SPEAKER_01]: cleared up. 01:09:48.407 --> 01:09:49.728 [SPEAKER_01]: We are in this with you. 01:09:50.068 --> 01:09:52.829 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this isn't something that we have figured out. 01:09:53.209 --> 01:10:01.073 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is Messianid as hard, but it is the journey that you are all, we are all called to make and we can with the spirits power take. 01:10:01.853 --> 01:10:16.918 [SPEAKER_01]: and the opposite of this is really miserable and many of you have experienced it so so thank you for being patient but also thank you for being you know honestly courageous enough to listen through and process all this stuff because this is a lot. 01:10:17.638 --> 01:10:25.486 [SPEAKER_01]: And so as we even end the season, I just want to say it is, it's a gift to be able to do this with you Justin, it's a gift. 01:10:26.066 --> 01:10:33.033 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being a good friend who can truly reflect and be a safe place to be honest, right? 01:10:33.053 --> 01:10:38.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I love that I can share that story that I did at the beginning, knowing that you're not going to be like, 01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:42.641 [SPEAKER_01]: What the heck, I don't think so too. 01:10:42.701 --> 01:11:06.787 [SPEAKER_01]: Is your such an idiot like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like like, like, like like, like like, like like, like like, like like, like like, like like, like like, like like, like 01:11:08.561 --> 01:11:16.807 [SPEAKER_00]: Or we ask your grace and mercy on sinners like us, broken eye and sinners like our brothers and sisters listening. 01:11:17.888 --> 01:11:26.414 [SPEAKER_00]: You oppose the proud, but you give grace to the humble and in the great exchange of the gospel you have given us your righteousness and exchange for our sin. 01:11:27.494 --> 01:11:40.106 [SPEAKER_00]: I pray you are mercy and your grace and the lives of people listening that they would be woken up to the vise in their life so that they might turn and flee from it and cling to you. 01:11:40.827 --> 01:11:45.992 [SPEAKER_00]: And that in running hard after you and the freedom of your grace given freely to us on the cross. 01:11:47.978 --> 01:12:10.992 [SPEAKER_00]: your sanctification would come to us centers and that we would be a little less lawful and a little more intentional, little less envious and a little more encouraging of others, a little less prideful and a lot more humble that we might be light to the world, to our families that we would lead our wives and children while that we would be stewards of your love in our workplaces. 01:12:12.013 --> 01:12:13.334 [SPEAKER_00]: Lord, help us out of our vise. 01:12:14.893 --> 01:12:18.285 [SPEAKER_00]: and into the community of youth and your people. 01:12:18.907 --> 01:12:19.870 [SPEAKER_00]: We ask it in your name. 01:12:21.014 --> 01:12:21.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Amen.