WEBVTT 00:02.760 --> 00:11.464 [SPEAKER_00]: Just to spend, from common lives, and you're listening, listening to listening, to the high-carum podcasts. 00:19.375 --> 00:22.437 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome everyone to another episode of the high carbon podcast. 00:22.657 --> 00:25.058 [SPEAKER_03]: We are back with a full house Paul is with us tonight. 00:25.659 --> 00:26.379 [SPEAKER_03]: He looks alive. 00:26.459 --> 00:27.240 [SPEAKER_03]: Once again, Pauli. 00:27.820 --> 00:28.280 [SPEAKER_03]: How you doing? 00:29.161 --> 00:30.041 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm back, baby. 00:30.622 --> 00:31.302 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not so back. 00:31.882 --> 00:34.504 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, this is airing when everybody is going to the show. 00:34.904 --> 00:35.665 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I understand. 00:35.685 --> 00:38.126 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:38.306 --> 00:42.309 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, being busy, being busy, being busy, extremely busy. 00:42.329 --> 00:44.730 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:45.190 --> 01:12.906 [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit that though little bit that when Martin posted the real about it's only 10 days until I have show us yeah pretty now I have to start this freaking out dude I have to make 40 nips 40 here they are not finished you know a little bit spicy moment but it's so good everything is going according to plan until it it was not so you know some stuff has has been 01:14.567 --> 01:21.029 [SPEAKER_02]: Going down to shit, a few vacuum molds broke, I had to remake those while making you know shit. 01:21.149 --> 01:24.350 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, but everything is working out fine. 01:24.690 --> 01:25.011 [SPEAKER_02]: It's good. 01:26.031 --> 01:31.673 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope, I hope, because we are leaving on, I think, yeah, on Thursday. 01:31.953 --> 01:32.453 [SPEAKER_03]: We are leaving. 01:33.332 --> 01:39.374 [SPEAKER_02]: early morning on Wednesday, I hope to have a day off, so I can, you know, go back to Zen said. 01:40.594 --> 01:48.937 [SPEAKER_02]: Go back to Zen, you know, we have some time because I'm walking, walking throughout the weekend and yeah, I just want to rest. 01:49.420 --> 01:52.161 [SPEAKER_02]: one to rest because there will be a lot of socializing. 01:52.321 --> 01:53.701 [SPEAKER_02]: So I need to recharge my batteries. 01:54.221 --> 01:58.163 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't, you know, secretly want to murder everybody there. 01:58.343 --> 01:59.583 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's fine. 01:59.843 --> 02:00.123 [SPEAKER_02]: It's good. 02:00.543 --> 02:01.244 [SPEAKER_02]: How about you, Keith? 02:02.364 --> 02:05.125 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, first of all, we're all like super, 02:06.305 --> 02:11.569 [SPEAKER_03]: in a brain fog state trying to get ready for Napjor Austria, everything's going in a bunch of different directions. 02:11.609 --> 02:14.070 [SPEAKER_03]: I know I had a little a few hiccups this week. 02:14.170 --> 02:20.535 [SPEAKER_03]: I had somebody the other day placed an order for eight file guides and I had like 10 ready to take to the show with me. 02:20.575 --> 02:22.236 [SPEAKER_03]: So now I'm like scrambled and to see if I can 02:22.756 --> 02:23.697 [SPEAKER_03]: get some more file guides. 02:23.977 --> 02:25.118 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't have enough stuff to do. 02:25.138 --> 02:31.662 [SPEAKER_03]: So if I can get some put together with the stock I got left over Carbides a little low time to reorder again. 02:32.322 --> 02:35.824 [SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully the prices are getting more stable, but I don't think so. 02:36.665 --> 02:41.368 [SPEAKER_03]: And before the show, I think Albert had something going on to that cut into his busy week. 02:42.122 --> 02:47.706 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I had to help install a new heat-up at the Paris place, so it was the construction work. 02:48.086 --> 02:53.210 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we had to put in the cables, then the plumber was there, so it was not a work. 02:53.570 --> 03:03.818 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and since my parents looked like 250 meters away from me and there, let's put that way too old to really help, so I had to jump in and do some of the work. 03:03.838 --> 03:06.420 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we'll manage, so I'm done with all the hard work. 03:06.740 --> 03:09.701 [SPEAKER_01]: I did all the hands sending on the hands, finished them today. 03:10.442 --> 03:14.924 [SPEAKER_01]: So next week it's hands sending the blades and etching them and putting them together and sharpening them. 03:15.024 --> 03:19.746 [SPEAKER_01]: So if everything works out, we'll manage to bring the 10 to 15 blades or something. 03:20.066 --> 03:28.030 [SPEAKER_03]: You're not that far away, so you guys can be working right up until Friday morning, not like eight in the morning, finish it up your work and then head over to the show. 03:28.969 --> 03:30.469 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe even Saturday morning. 03:31.250 --> 03:46.694 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see it takes us I think 90 minutes to style so that's not too bad So we can leave even leave Saturday morning and still make it to the show We'll find better be set up set up by 10 for the early birds not by nine for the early birds. 03:46.774 --> 03:47.774 [SPEAKER_01]: I think is it? 03:48.580 --> 03:51.121 [SPEAKER_03]: 10 o'clock and show starts at 11 really. 03:51.641 --> 03:52.562 [SPEAKER_01]: It's 10 for the real good. 03:53.642 --> 03:58.524 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah Awesome So we had an emotional hour to fit. 03:58.804 --> 03:59.765 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like two more lives. 04:00.485 --> 04:00.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect. 04:01.245 --> 04:01.486 [SPEAKER_01]: Cool. 04:01.546 --> 04:05.367 [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't know that I thought it was nine But it's a mental margin is organized into shows. 04:05.387 --> 04:07.108 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not surprised that it's kind of started 10 04:07.627 --> 04:09.448 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's introduce our guest. 04:09.468 --> 04:13.110 [SPEAKER_03]: We also have some of you that will be with us at Napeshaw Austria. 04:13.790 --> 04:16.511 [SPEAKER_03]: We have Frederick Sporeff and Sweden. 04:16.591 --> 04:17.812 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome Frederick to the show. 04:18.072 --> 04:18.833 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much. 04:19.633 --> 04:25.216 [SPEAKER_03]: So Frederick, you are working with also with the edge of hope that I'm involved in. 04:25.856 --> 04:28.617 [SPEAKER_03]: And we had our list of makers together. 04:28.657 --> 04:31.739 [SPEAKER_03]: We had like 20 people actually a little bit more than that. 04:31.779 --> 04:33.360 [SPEAKER_03]: We're trying to narrow it down and we thought, 04:33.840 --> 04:41.005 [SPEAKER_03]: since Stamastil was sponsoring all the steel for us, that we should maybe give Domestil a chance to pick a maker. 04:41.185 --> 04:47.629 [SPEAKER_03]: And I messaged Carly and asked if she would be interested in picking out some of the she thought that worked really well with Domestil. 04:47.789 --> 04:51.731 [SPEAKER_03]: And it took her about 10 seconds, and she put your name in, and uh... 04:53.780 --> 04:58.063 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you got a knife finished for us, I think the pictures are already out. 04:58.143 --> 05:03.568 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you made a serrated bread sort of an amazing one. 05:04.088 --> 05:05.569 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, very nice. 05:05.589 --> 05:08.852 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I worked quite a lot with the I'm still in the past. 05:09.152 --> 05:17.519 [SPEAKER_04]: And we got, I mean, I visited them and they're not that far away from my town in the group. 05:18.059 --> 05:19.400 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a couple of hours. 05:19.680 --> 05:21.342 [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, they are... 05:22.127 --> 05:31.573 [SPEAKER_04]: The great guys not only to work with professionally, but they're really, as you probably met them all before as well in person and they are like, yeah, awesome people. 05:32.074 --> 05:33.215 [SPEAKER_04]: So very helpful. 05:33.735 --> 05:38.098 [SPEAKER_04]: And so I try to help them out, any chance I get. 05:38.879 --> 05:47.484 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, the great people and it's it's really cool to be a part of the, this project as well. 05:51.698 --> 05:56.601 [SPEAKER_04]: So it was, yeah, I'm very nice to join this one as well. 05:57.121 --> 05:58.542 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I look on three Instagram page. 05:58.742 --> 06:01.324 [SPEAKER_03]: You've done quite a bit of charity work also. 06:01.364 --> 06:03.505 [SPEAKER_03]: Some other knives out of Domestyle in the past. 06:03.565 --> 06:06.547 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess that's one of the main skills that you're working with. 06:06.587 --> 06:07.067 [SPEAKER_03]: Domestyle? 06:07.487 --> 06:14.472 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, but yes, and though, if I were to choose, so I wouldn't have worked with Domestyle, but the customers have a say as well. 06:14.932 --> 06:16.613 [SPEAKER_04]: And they tend to choose, 06:22.223 --> 06:41.994 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if I were to choose, yes, I would only work with Domestate, but as soon as someone or something stainless or want something special or leaves, leaves details up to me, I always go for Domestate or like RWL, for instance, that is also made by Domestate. 06:42.734 --> 06:46.656 [SPEAKER_04]: When they want a mono stainless, so I try to use it as much as possible. 06:47.316 --> 06:50.378 [SPEAKER_04]: Not only because it's Swedish, but it's so great to work with it as well. 06:51.447 --> 06:58.533 [SPEAKER_03]: So one of the questions that shows up on some of the other knife podcasts is the serrated serrations on the bread knife. 06:58.893 --> 07:01.915 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you go ahead about getting your serrations done? 07:02.376 --> 07:03.277 [SPEAKER_04]: Er, well, I grind them. 07:04.317 --> 07:04.878 [SPEAKER_04]: One other thing. 07:06.339 --> 07:08.901 [SPEAKER_04]: So I have a small wheel attachment to my grinder. 07:09.602 --> 07:11.283 [SPEAKER_04]: This is actually the grinder. 07:11.723 --> 07:14.986 [SPEAKER_04]: My first grinder that I bought eight years ago, 07:20.930 --> 07:33.870 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's maybe 15 or 20 millimeter wheel contact or like, you know, small wheel attachments and I just grind them one at a time go with the rough regrets and finer and finer and it's a roughly. 07:35.672 --> 07:47.180 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like an a 30 millimeter bread sort, I measure from the heel to the tip, not heel from not from the heel to the last generation, the heel from the tip to the tip, and it's usually around the 30 to 32 teeth. 07:48.260 --> 07:54.805 [SPEAKER_04]: So you can imagine when I do like a batch of 20, 25 bread nights, it's it's a lot of teeth to grind. 07:56.105 --> 07:59.327 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's actually fun, it's very, you know, very active, like a 08:03.705 --> 08:05.189 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you mark the distance before that? 08:05.710 --> 08:07.254 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I just do it by eye. 08:08.457 --> 08:11.184 [SPEAKER_04]: I started by using markers and 08:12.530 --> 08:26.496 [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes the heals are heal is a thicker on the bread source and it is in the tip like with all the most baits and then the teeth look very wonky when you like can't space them individually. 08:26.876 --> 08:38.041 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's much better just go by eye and feel in my opinion, but I mean I do it I don't so much so maybe it's a yeah you get used to it. 08:38.461 --> 08:41.683 [SPEAKER_04]: If you want to only gonna do like one I see no issue with 08:42.774 --> 08:46.755 [SPEAKER_04]: that's probably better, but no, I don't do that. 08:47.195 --> 08:48.035 [SPEAKER_04]: I used to grind them. 08:48.535 --> 08:54.057 [SPEAKER_03]: And you grind one, like almost completely, and then move on to the next, or do you, because it helped. 08:54.537 --> 09:09.901 [SPEAKER_04]: I just, it grit, and then I go to the 180, and then I go to, it kind of depends if it's a mono or the maskus, but if it's like, the maskus, like 99% of everything I do is the maskus, the red source. 09:10.351 --> 09:12.081 [SPEAKER_04]: So I will 80, 180. 09:14.452 --> 09:36.583 [SPEAKER_04]: 320 and then I polished away a lot of polish of the the burr because the burr is it almost takes as much time as grinding the teeth just to remove the burr because you can't just use a stroke you know and it's very sticky sometimes and you had to go in between all the the tips and everything so yeah that's usually how I do it. 09:37.123 --> 09:41.525 [SPEAKER_03]: I've either had the two of you ever made a I saw it at night before 09:42.042 --> 09:43.543 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've done quite a few. 09:43.563 --> 09:55.289 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason why I was asking whether or not I'm Fred marks it is because what happened to me is I whenever did my first breath and I said, oh, it's marked the distance, but it turned out completely different when I was going here. 09:55.349 --> 09:59.191 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, I, I, I, I stopped after the distance is as well. 09:59.211 --> 09:59.751 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah. 10:00.091 --> 10:12.802 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I recognize that quite a lot, I mean every time I try to make something and measure and you know, measure and mark and be very thorough, it always ends up like crap. 10:13.323 --> 10:23.032 [SPEAKER_04]: Like today, for instance, I made like stands for the knife show, just stands for holding the knife and I sat there and we're measured and I was very thorough. 10:23.672 --> 10:36.262 [SPEAKER_04]: and eventually no holes where I marked them, no cuts were made where I marked it it's like, I don't even know why I bought it, it's just better to go buy IMF and eventually it works out. 10:36.982 --> 10:38.524 [SPEAKER_04]: But I have to backtrack a little bit. 10:40.521 --> 10:42.002 [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was very funny when Pauli. 10:42.022 --> 10:49.367 [SPEAKER_04]: You said first of all you said that you were in the shit to deepen the shit because you had 14 knives to make to finish up. 10:49.887 --> 10:53.730 [SPEAKER_04]: And then like in the next sentence, you said, yeah, everything is going its plan. 10:54.210 --> 10:57.613 [SPEAKER_04]: So your plan was to be in the shit with 14 knives to make in the one week. 10:58.353 --> 11:00.796 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, let's let's done one week. 11:01.036 --> 11:01.877 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 11:02.058 --> 11:03.599 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's fine. 11:03.860 --> 11:04.981 [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay. 11:06.302 --> 11:07.784 [SPEAKER_02]: Look, the plan is suggesting. 11:08.365 --> 11:08.785 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 11:08.845 --> 11:09.626 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a signal. 11:09.686 --> 11:09.966 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 11:10.347 --> 11:10.807 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 11:11.228 --> 11:13.851 [SPEAKER_02]: You you look at it and you're like, yeah, I should make it. 11:14.031 --> 11:18.276 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I will be able to make it and you know, then something breaks in the middle of the process. 11:18.296 --> 11:18.696 [SPEAKER_02]: Then you're like 11:19.397 --> 11:22.159 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the plan has changed, okay. 11:23.239 --> 11:24.160 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's fine. 11:24.380 --> 11:24.820 [SPEAKER_02]: It's good. 11:25.061 --> 11:25.381 [SPEAKER_02]: It's good. 11:25.501 --> 11:26.662 [SPEAKER_02]: All the processes are running. 11:26.682 --> 11:28.703 [SPEAKER_02]: It's good as he could have been. 11:29.724 --> 11:33.946 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, yeah, all the 20 are already fully 100% paid. 11:35.927 --> 11:56.452 [SPEAKER_02]: The other 40 are like not, you know, they are not from zero handles are made sheets are made Well 20 sheets are made and I need all the heat range heat treatment has been made and I need to do the finishing sharpening laser etching and Oh Jesus Christ there is a lot of forks You have to do you have to do all the finish grinding still on 40 blades. 11:56.732 --> 11:59.432 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, okay There's good. 11:59.652 --> 12:00.233 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a nice 12:02.593 --> 12:24.570 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you could say hunting these are the last 40 or like 20 mid-cyc DCs and the other 20 are like scalpel size DCs, so it's, you know, just a few minutes, now under five minutes of doing the grounding, so just because I'm a jigman, just do a bridge and some tumbling and then you're done. 12:25.823 --> 12:31.605 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I don't have a tumbler, but I would like to buy it after the show, if the show goes well. 12:32.005 --> 12:35.847 [SPEAKER_04]: A big bucket and a lot of small rocks and some double duty 40. 12:36.307 --> 12:37.847 [SPEAKER_04]: And yes, yeah, go crazy. 12:38.888 --> 12:40.629 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but who kicks the bucket? 12:40.649 --> 12:41.709 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the bucket. 12:41.909 --> 12:45.650 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, I've got shit to do, I don't have time to kick the bucket. 12:46.131 --> 12:47.671 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, throwing the dryer. 12:47.711 --> 12:48.812 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, but it's good. 12:49.032 --> 12:49.492 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine. 12:49.832 --> 12:50.672 [SPEAKER_02]: I will figure it out. 12:50.872 --> 12:51.733 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't, don't worry. 12:52.173 --> 12:53.053 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be doing it for you. 12:55.534 --> 13:05.663 [SPEAKER_03]: When a normal knife maker says he's got forty knives to make, he's just got a pile of rostil when Pauli says it, he's got already treated cut out blanks and the sheets and everything is already done. 13:05.683 --> 13:09.747 [SPEAKER_03]: He's just got to put push couple of buttons and do some grinding and that's it. 13:10.007 --> 13:14.010 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little bit hyperboleisation to know. 13:14.231 --> 13:17.834 [SPEAKER_02]: They are not finished, so I haven't finished those 40 blades. 13:18.134 --> 13:18.514 [SPEAKER_02]: So we know. 13:18.595 --> 13:19.175 [SPEAKER_02]: It's good. 13:20.336 --> 13:21.197 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I wish you good luck. 13:23.310 --> 13:24.572 [SPEAKER_02]: I will definitely need it. 13:25.073 --> 13:31.545 [SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully the last day, as a day off, works out, if not, then you know, I did something wrong, definitely. 13:33.084 --> 13:40.168 [SPEAKER_03]: So Frederick, on your Instagram page, it seems to be a lot of pictures of knife classes that you do. 13:40.508 --> 13:44.050 [SPEAKER_03]: It's always interesting to see how different knife makers approach the classes. 13:44.471 --> 13:49.673 [SPEAKER_03]: Some people like Albert does most of the grinding in his class and has more people in it. 13:50.194 --> 13:52.335 [SPEAKER_03]: You seem to have smaller classes, how do they work? 13:52.355 --> 13:53.836 [SPEAKER_03]: What do you guys make in what you offer? 13:53.856 --> 13:54.856 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 13:55.077 --> 13:55.577 [SPEAKER_03]: Any classes? 13:56.077 --> 14:12.562 [SPEAKER_04]: So I mean, of course, everyone can con with special requests, but I mean generally nine out of 99 out of 100 classes are we make a punk from start to finish for each and everyone. 14:13.182 --> 14:17.784 [SPEAKER_04]: And the only thing that is pre-made is the handle, because I made a couple of days ahead. 14:17.804 --> 14:19.544 [SPEAKER_04]: It has more to do with the... 14:22.233 --> 14:32.848 [SPEAKER_04]: glue and oil to be able to dry and I want them to bring home a finish knife and then of course it's time to say me as well and handle making is not exactly the... 14:33.730 --> 14:36.393 [SPEAKER_04]: that part of the people come to the class for. 14:36.433 --> 14:39.195 [SPEAKER_04]: People want to forge and people want to, you know, he treats and everything. 14:39.215 --> 14:53.469 [SPEAKER_04]: So we start with forging and during the heat treatment, the cycles I would go to lunch and then we he treat or harden them and then we or I grind them. 14:53.729 --> 14:55.351 [SPEAKER_04]: So I do all the grinding on them. 14:56.278 --> 15:01.279 [SPEAKER_04]: And I have everything from 2 to 8 people in the class at the same time. 15:01.819 --> 15:10.401 [SPEAKER_04]: So, of course, when it's 8 people to grind, it vankas from start to finish is maybe two hours. 15:10.681 --> 15:14.462 [SPEAKER_04]: And they get to go away and have some coffee or whatever. 15:14.642 --> 15:17.002 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really care what they do, but they hang around. 15:17.582 --> 15:20.543 [SPEAKER_04]: And then we go to hand or edge them and go to handle them. 15:20.623 --> 15:22.163 [SPEAKER_04]: And then they go more or less. 15:22.624 --> 15:24.184 [SPEAKER_04]: And then it's around five in the evening. 15:25.057 --> 15:32.948 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's one day classes and I've forgotten inspiration for doing it like this when I worked as a chef and we hosted 15:36.167 --> 15:58.472 [SPEAKER_04]: it's really then like directly translate it's active cooking so you come to a restaurant and you join in with a cooking you have a cook or a chef that over watches everything and you follow a recipe and then you make your own dinner more or less and what I thought was also interesting with that was that 15:59.667 --> 16:15.006 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, some people have a lot of a cooling experience, but a lot of people didn't have a clue what to do, because these were like company events that they just followed on, and 16:16.607 --> 16:19.568 [SPEAKER_04]: But even those guys managed to like impress themselves. 16:19.868 --> 16:24.229 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was so happy to see like, okay, this guy really went out of his comfort zone. 16:24.369 --> 16:26.909 [SPEAKER_04]: And he managed to do something in a really proud. 16:27.309 --> 16:29.030 [SPEAKER_04]: And he was really happy when his friend stole them. 16:29.070 --> 16:31.230 [SPEAKER_04]: It was great to taste his good and everything. 16:31.770 --> 16:36.491 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, I need to be able to make something similar in one day. 16:36.672 --> 16:41.433 [SPEAKER_04]: Because it's no challenge to have a class in a couple of days in my experience, but then you can separate it. 16:41.533 --> 16:43.073 [SPEAKER_04]: And I want it to be like, 16:43.253 --> 16:54.867 [SPEAKER_04]: You come in the morning, you were waiting the evening or the afternoon, and you have a knife that you, and previously you had no experience working with the tools and the fire and the still. 16:54.907 --> 17:00.013 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's like my, and that's what motivates me to host them. 17:02.324 --> 17:07.367 [SPEAKER_02]: And as you said, you worked in the kitchen, and I have quite a specific question. 17:07.548 --> 17:10.109 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, you make kitchen knives also, right? 17:10.990 --> 17:17.214 [SPEAKER_02]: And because you have this experience, you know, and maybe you're, and it kind of molds the way you make your knives, right? 17:17.474 --> 17:26.060 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you know, you know, we are to look for performance and maybe even influences what you've seen in processes in the kitchen, how we manage the processes, how you do your shop work. 17:26.900 --> 17:31.904 [SPEAKER_02]: But you are making knives, sometimes for people who don't have the chef experience, you know? 17:32.024 --> 17:43.653 [SPEAKER_02]: So you have, do you see how you need to alter the knives you make for people who are not chefs, but still make them as great performers? 17:44.726 --> 17:55.550 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a very interesting question actually and a very valid question because a lot of people ask for knives that they absolutely don't want need and to know how to use. 17:56.090 --> 18:03.212 [SPEAKER_04]: So then it's up to me to either like don't care and whatever you're paying me, I'll do whatever you want. 18:03.372 --> 18:08.814 [SPEAKER_04]: But I always actually try to steer them away from that mostly because if someone wants. 18:11.788 --> 18:16.410 [SPEAKER_04]: So a little while back, this is like five years ago, maybe. 18:16.811 --> 18:22.714 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually did like a 40 centimeter, I think it was 18 centimeters high. 18:23.275 --> 18:25.996 [SPEAKER_04]: So we're talking this big Honayaki. 18:26.957 --> 18:27.637 [SPEAKER_04]: For a guy. 18:29.254 --> 18:34.799 [SPEAKER_04]: And when he sent in the request, I was like, okay, you have to tell me what you're going to use this for because this is your silly. 18:35.260 --> 18:44.148 [SPEAKER_04]: And then he actually sent me a video of him working in the restaurant, kept cutting up this huge cabbages, not for cabbages. 18:44.689 --> 18:47.011 [SPEAKER_04]: And he actually used a very, very big knife. 18:47.772 --> 18:50.234 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, because I told him, 18:51.087 --> 19:08.469 [SPEAKER_04]: to motivate it, because I didn't think it was gonna be able to motivate it, and then it sent this video back and I was like, well now I have to make you this night of course, but when people come with those kind of requests and I actually try to talk to me something more sensible. 19:10.595 --> 19:28.011 [SPEAKER_04]: I want them to, I mean they take pretty good money for everyone, whenever someone buys a custom knife, it doesn't matter if it's a high end or a low end, it's a pretty good chunk of money, compared to buying a mass produced knife in the retail store. 19:29.464 --> 19:38.090 [SPEAKER_04]: So I want them to be happy with what they get, not like, oh, why did I order this or why, why didn't I think of this or whatever. 19:38.330 --> 19:48.017 [SPEAKER_04]: I want them to be like, oh, wow, if I manage to change their idea, I want them to like feel like, okay, I understand why he recommended this or 19:48.978 --> 19:49.819 [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I'm getting at? 19:49.999 --> 19:55.263 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like I don't want them to paint themselves into a corner that they can't get out of. 19:56.724 --> 20:06.392 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that is a pretty big responsibility for all the knife makers not to just accept any order, but to try and actually sell good products as well. 20:07.197 --> 20:14.668 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and like from my experience, sometimes they are customers who have extremely specific orders. 20:15.148 --> 20:21.397 [SPEAKER_02]: They, they, they should be, you know, I, to the millimeter to the tenth of the moment that I specifically wanted this drawings. 20:22.238 --> 20:32.747 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then you know they won't be satisfied in the end, because you know, their vision is not connecting to the actual physical experience to the thing. 20:32.827 --> 20:35.729 [SPEAKER_02]: It's only an idea in their mind that is very, very concrete. 20:36.049 --> 20:43.555 [SPEAKER_02]: And these are actually the worst customers, because you know, you as a maker, you kind of transform the materials in your own way. 20:43.975 --> 20:48.079 [SPEAKER_02]: And it won't be exactly exactly how they envision in the mind, you know. 20:48.479 --> 20:56.404 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so they tend to be disappointed even if they get what you want, because it's not what they want actually in the end and not what they need. 20:56.484 --> 21:10.452 [SPEAKER_04]: Especially for me, I forged almost all the knives that I make and if I have my knives I've always had a forged finish on them and you can't really measure or of course you can. 21:10.792 --> 21:14.094 [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm not going to do that, have like specific measurements in, 21:15.655 --> 21:22.579 [SPEAKER_04]: 1.8 mm, 5 cm from the table, whatever it's like, well, I'll try, but it's probably not going to work. 21:23.039 --> 21:32.664 [SPEAKER_04]: And funny enough, I have a customer in Germany, if you listen to this, it's absolutely going to know who he is. 21:34.625 --> 21:38.306 [SPEAKER_04]: Every time he hasn't bought a knife in a while now, but 21:40.505 --> 21:52.615 [SPEAKER_04]: After receiving the knives, he always sends me like a big review of the knives and he mentions all the wrong things and all the bad things and everything I missed. 21:53.716 --> 22:01.383 [SPEAKER_04]: But he always, yeah, to be honest, he just finishes the evening with overall super happy, can't wait to order next one. 22:01.443 --> 22:02.464 [SPEAKER_04]: He's like, wait what? 22:04.695 --> 22:09.959 [SPEAKER_04]: and I'll talk to him because I'm a team, a person, I'll talk to him about this and we laughed about it. 22:10.380 --> 22:21.168 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's just some people have very high expectations and they have someone one of you mentioned like an idea in their head and they can't really, they don't 22:29.993 --> 22:38.116 [SPEAKER_04]: The main fault for most orders is the length in my opinion, most people want to wait to long lives. 22:38.737 --> 22:47.620 [SPEAKER_04]: And also going back to my time medication, I mean if you had like a 250, you couldn't really work with it because you had like a station, 22:48.320 --> 22:53.305 [SPEAKER_04]: And that station was like, you can't take someone else's workstation. 22:53.765 --> 22:58.609 [SPEAKER_04]: And then if you have like, 2015, I mean, you can't, it's not viable. 22:58.670 --> 23:05.976 [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, short plates, and short dates with enough height to do the normal work. 23:06.076 --> 23:06.496 [SPEAKER_04]: A.K.A. 23:06.557 --> 23:06.997 [SPEAKER_04]: Avanka. 23:07.197 --> 23:09.119 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like the perfect kitchen knife in my opinion. 23:10.603 --> 23:16.006 [SPEAKER_02]: But we want to be a little bit of devil's advocate in this place, because, you know, what's worth of course? 23:16.066 --> 23:17.107 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, sure. 23:17.707 --> 23:29.593 [SPEAKER_02]: Ella, you know, what works in a professional kitchen isn't the same product that maybe a customer who has a wall of knives and uses it only for, you know, his pleasure. 23:29.693 --> 23:31.074 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he wants the big knife. 23:31.414 --> 23:37.337 [SPEAKER_02]: He has a huge block and he uses just, you know, not professionally I'm working like eight hours and chopping, you know. 23:37.837 --> 23:47.441 [SPEAKER_02]: things but I am more taking this work of art from a maker and I'm just using to slice and dice this, pop record whatever and that's it, that's it. 23:47.501 --> 24:00.987 [SPEAKER_02]: So no, it's kind of, I know it's not practical but it's what they, you know, it's the vibe, the feel, the ability to have something that isn't like economically, maybe, or physically viable, like, you don't have a, you know, 24:01.947 --> 24:09.016 [SPEAKER_02]: Ferrari or Lamborghini to just drive every day, you know, some people do, but you know, it's not the most customers. 24:09.216 --> 24:17.526 [SPEAKER_04]: I can appreciate that idea, but then you're not really buying a tool, you're more less buying a functional Ortiz. 24:18.667 --> 24:19.447 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's fine as well. 24:19.848 --> 24:36.735 [SPEAKER_04]: But when you ask, I mean, I have, I meet so many people in the classes and this is a pretty unique because most people that work Snifemakers rarely get to meet their customers in the, in the, in the, in the, the amount customers that I make. 24:37.236 --> 24:39.957 [SPEAKER_04]: And we always have this discussion in the mornings. 24:40.257 --> 24:48.341 [SPEAKER_04]: because people actually come with drawings, sometimes even in the classes with them, want to make a knife like this or they bring their favorite knife or whatever. 24:48.361 --> 24:50.322 [SPEAKER_04]: And I always tell them like, 24:52.068 --> 24:55.730 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think this is like the arguments to end or arguments. 24:56.190 --> 25:01.973 [SPEAKER_04]: Is like the knife to reach for when you're going to make the week day dinner. 25:02.753 --> 25:04.654 [SPEAKER_04]: That's the knife you don't need to make in the class. 25:05.154 --> 25:15.859 [SPEAKER_04]: And most of the time I'm not saying everyone but most of the time is going to be like a 140 global, you know the G10 or whatever it's called or something similar. 25:16.741 --> 25:26.063 [SPEAKER_04]: Whatever, it's like easy, it's functional, it's non-intimidating for people that don't really like knives, it's like the everyday knife. 25:26.303 --> 25:31.545 [SPEAKER_04]: And then we just cream it up a little bit, make it a 180-year panca, and it works for everyone. 25:31.905 --> 25:36.766 [SPEAKER_04]: And I always tell them, don't make the knife that you're going to use once a year to slice your Christmas ham. 25:37.326 --> 25:45.969 [SPEAKER_04]: don't make a pizza slicer, don't make a bread soren, unless you're a baker or whatever, but make the knife to reach for every day. 25:46.270 --> 25:49.871 [SPEAKER_04]: And just check with yourself, what am I reaching for? 25:49.911 --> 26:03.496 [SPEAKER_04]: Be honest with yourself, because at the end of the day, it's their own fault if they choose their own knife, because I can only try my best, but most people just nod and say, yeah, that's what I reach for. 26:03.796 --> 26:05.437 [SPEAKER_04]: And then we make the shorter knives. 26:06.178 --> 26:07.559 [SPEAKER_02]: I totally agree with that one. 26:07.759 --> 26:28.360 [SPEAKER_02]: Like in the kitchen, I mostly use like a zero DPA, 180 millimeter one and like one of my mostly use knives is actually made that I make myself and it is the smallest knife that I make because there are so many small tasks in the workshop that you, you know, you just it's so handy when you have it on yourself. 26:29.060 --> 26:35.622 [SPEAKER_02]: And it really kind of pays off in the sense that you are actually using what you've made. 26:36.542 --> 26:39.962 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like basically, it's just a better daily driver, it's so fun. 26:40.743 --> 26:51.465 [SPEAKER_02]: But again, coming back a little bit to that, if it is not a class, but it is a custom order, you know, if they want that grail knife or whatever, you know, it's just kind of... 26:53.381 --> 26:59.284 [SPEAKER_02]: I really, it's so hard to be in devil's advocate because I resonate with the idea of making tools for work. 26:59.344 --> 27:02.746 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's just, you know, a staple of my work too. 27:02.906 --> 27:13.072 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, if they pay the money and they want to use it, they want to flex three times in a year that they can slice that huge ham, they should have it. 27:13.956 --> 27:34.803 [SPEAKER_04]: But do you quite quickly realize if you're talking to a collector or if you're talking to a chef or if you're talking to a hunkook when you like start talking to the customers and then of course if a collector asks for something it's like I'm not going to try to convince them to not buy the specific knife that they're after because they probably know what they're after. 27:35.303 --> 27:38.204 [SPEAKER_04]: But when I'm when I'm talking about this like. 27:38.784 --> 27:52.407 [SPEAKER_04]: the everyday man that want to buy something nice for themselves, and they want to actually be happy with the purchase, not to see it on the kitchen counter and just click dust. 27:53.347 --> 27:54.768 [SPEAKER_02]: 100% degree. 27:55.008 --> 27:55.828 [SPEAKER_02]: 100% degree. 27:56.248 --> 28:04.070 [SPEAKER_04]: I was actually maybe three, four years ago I started to buy a lot of knives from makers around Europe. 28:04.650 --> 28:14.673 [SPEAKER_04]: like most people that I'm afraid that I'm friends with now, but I just wanted to like see what they were doing and with the fast soul about, you know, all of that. 28:15.233 --> 28:23.355 [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, I had actually so love quite a lot of them now, but I mean, they were such great knives. 28:24.176 --> 28:28.177 [SPEAKER_04]: They were amazing, they were beautiful, the look yet, but they always like, 28:29.197 --> 28:49.944 [SPEAKER_04]: stayed in the back of the I have like a magnet rack always at the back and at the front there was always this 140 small bunker in stainless that I just hammered out for my girlfriend when we started beating and it's like that's the only one we use more or less because it's so handy and I just set those 28:58.635 --> 29:08.445 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a tool and maybe it's just me, but I prefer the more nimble stuff. 29:09.363 --> 29:17.088 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's a great way to know, you know, how is the playing field, you know, being played, seeing other people's work. 29:17.348 --> 29:29.395 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, maybe do you remember like, what is the most, uh, stand out and by what maker, the knife that blew your way, you were like, Oh, this has something really good going on and I need to figure it out. 29:31.312 --> 29:48.927 [SPEAKER_04]: So, it's between two knives, I would say, or it turns out to be three, and it's actually not a knife that I use that much, but it's like a kit from Joe Black. 29:49.287 --> 29:52.470 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a Bogo candle, very dark blade. 29:54.230 --> 30:03.753 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's actually 8px, I think it was way back when 8px started releasing, and it's a wooden sire with a small petty inserted into it as well. 30:04.394 --> 30:08.175 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like my bitch, my bitch. 30:08.595 --> 30:13.557 [SPEAKER_04]: So if we go away on picnic or go to the beach, I just throw it in the bag because it's like I'm breakable, right? 30:14.317 --> 30:17.598 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's great, and I just thought the whole 30:18.940 --> 30:23.875 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if this is how we enter the customer to use it, but for me it's like 30:25.402 --> 30:49.529 [SPEAKER_04]: one stop shop to like yeah you throw it in and you have everything you know and it's pretty rustic so you don't really care if it's started to stay in the little bit and stuff so yeah it was great and I just I was amazed by the idea of it and then actually the other one is it's not the or I mean I suppose it's a little bit handmade but it's actually a mass produced knife 30:54.745 --> 30:55.125 [SPEAKER_02]: no idea. 30:55.365 --> 30:57.606 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that is actually the brand. 30:58.687 --> 31:07.210 [SPEAKER_04]: It's it's like a very thin blade with a very very shallow 31:10.363 --> 31:19.585 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's convex, no concave, right, hollow grind, very, very shallow, and it's so damn thin. 31:20.626 --> 31:25.727 [SPEAKER_04]: So that it actually can stay stable and not break, it's like a miracle. 31:26.787 --> 31:28.628 [SPEAKER_04]: And I had two of those, and I was like, 31:30.105 --> 31:32.026 [SPEAKER_04]: It almost made one a quick making knife. 31:32.127 --> 31:36.730 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, damn it, this cuts so damn well. 31:36.830 --> 31:37.991 [SPEAKER_04]: And these are mass produced. 31:38.211 --> 31:39.412 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, semi-mass produced. 31:39.932 --> 31:46.057 [SPEAKER_04]: And it made me eventually to try and become better and get better at the craft. 31:46.157 --> 31:54.423 [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it was incredibly impressive, the slicing ability of the knife. 31:54.703 --> 31:58.506 [SPEAKER_04]: Without it being a super laser and anything, it's just like very good knife. 32:00.098 --> 32:02.765 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if it's, uh, I think it's your chicken. 32:03.306 --> 32:06.834 [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I just received the blades and I, uh, put Hamdas on them myself. 32:07.358 --> 32:10.240 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, now you already solved me on this one, I need to buy one, I need to test it out. 32:10.260 --> 32:31.158 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of 32:32.406 --> 32:39.031 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's up to the great maybe we can put it in the show notes, you know, they will get quite official from your European Championship. 32:39.051 --> 32:42.454 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because you're like, I must produce nice people shot by cast a knife from European knife. 32:42.574 --> 32:43.615 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 32:44.035 --> 32:44.355 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 32:44.375 --> 32:52.442 [SPEAKER_02]: And especially good, uh, knife show Austria, uh, table E 10, that's my table, boltable is come by, by everything, by everything that they brought. 32:54.188 --> 32:57.649 [SPEAKER_03]: You can use them in the kitchen and you can use them in the pot. 32:59.790 --> 33:06.373 [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, Friedrich, I saw that you are participating in doing a class in Nefesha, Austria. 33:07.093 --> 33:07.573 [SPEAKER_02]: About... 33:08.033 --> 33:10.654 [SPEAKER_04]: I worked on this seminar. 33:11.014 --> 33:11.795 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what they are. 33:11.835 --> 33:13.855 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yeah. 33:14.176 --> 33:17.777 [SPEAKER_02]: Would you like to spell it to be in some more details about it? 33:18.157 --> 33:19.278 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's me in Jonas. 33:20.733 --> 33:40.687 [SPEAKER_04]: Both me and him, we have a really good relationship with Damasteel and we used it for quite a while, and we have talked about it with them quite a lot like asked questions, you know, because I mean they have sometimes you have them, you imagine that they are like a super advanced component almost 33:41.968 --> 33:52.593 [SPEAKER_04]: CNC's everything but they have like a big as fortune, have a big as hammer, rolling wheels, presses, I mean they are they are forging this stuff day in and they out. 33:52.953 --> 34:01.857 [SPEAKER_04]: So if someone knows how to forge it it's them and not particularly within dimensions as kitchen ice but I mean they move a lot of steel in their workshop. 34:02.197 --> 34:04.138 [SPEAKER_04]: So they are very knowledgeable. 34:04.956 --> 34:10.321 [SPEAKER_04]: And that has resulted in us using it quite a lot and forging it a lot. 34:11.081 --> 34:15.045 [SPEAKER_04]: And they asked us, I think it was them or if it's a smart and I don't actually know. 34:15.405 --> 34:24.854 [SPEAKER_04]: But as if we could do this, because I think a lot of people, this is something I concerned that both me, me, Jonas, and Thomas, they share. 34:25.634 --> 34:30.238 [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of people are a little bit afraid of forging that mistake, because it's one because of the price. 34:30.739 --> 34:31.780 [SPEAKER_04]: It sucks to, 34:32.360 --> 34:42.044 [SPEAKER_04]: to toast a piece of domestic, it's very expensive and also because it moves quite different from carbon steel or mild steel or actually even normal stainless steel. 34:42.524 --> 34:50.687 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, we're just going to develop few myths and encourage people to try it out. 34:53.157 --> 34:58.962 [SPEAKER_04]: that's more or less the bullet points and then we're going to take a lot of questions. 34:58.982 --> 35:03.506 [SPEAKER_04]: So people don't be afraid to break questions to the seminar. 35:03.926 --> 35:05.388 [SPEAKER_04]: Jonas is happy to answer everything. 35:06.168 --> 35:10.832 [SPEAKER_04]: All the all the hard questions I'll take this most. 35:11.172 --> 35:14.475 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you have prepared some slides at this time. 35:14.515 --> 35:17.358 [SPEAKER_04]: But I mean we have Jonas as I can, that's enough I think. 35:18.670 --> 35:45.795 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 35:46.495 --> 35:53.765 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's pretty narrow window on the portion temperatures, so it sucks, it's expensive, but you'll learn. 35:53.785 --> 35:56.589 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually kept that in peace as a reminder as well. 35:57.109 --> 36:00.774 [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, you shouldn't be afraid to experiment with it. 36:01.095 --> 36:03.318 [SPEAKER_04]: And the patterns are 36:04.599 --> 36:11.305 [SPEAKER_04]: So damn organic when you forge it, like grinding out is the stock removal bait. 36:12.346 --> 36:22.335 [SPEAKER_04]: It's of course absolutely fine, but when you forge it and you distort patterns, and especially like forced down the tips and everything, so it gets narrower, tighter depending. 36:22.815 --> 36:25.778 [SPEAKER_04]: It's, yeah, it makes the whole bait more alive, I think. 36:27.469 --> 36:30.991 [SPEAKER_02]: and for the people who are listening, if you are working with Damasteel. 36:31.852 --> 36:35.794 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget, you can heat-feet it and kill skills. 36:35.874 --> 36:38.535 [SPEAKER_02]: This show is sponsored by mini-held.eu. 36:38.635 --> 36:40.836 [SPEAKER_02]: Great kills, amazing prices. 36:41.317 --> 36:42.097 [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful kills. 36:42.237 --> 36:44.178 [SPEAKER_02]: I have one, everybody should have one. 36:44.639 --> 36:51.042 [SPEAKER_02]: You have a huge selection on mini-held.eu, where you can pick from different linings, soft brick, hard brick. 36:51.102 --> 36:53.944 [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to do some cool mind, you want to heat up the 36:56.885 --> 37:07.354 [SPEAKER_02]: Just use a mini hell and while you are shopping there, you can also look at heat treatment foil, which you could use for heat treating gamma steel and racks for batch hardening. 37:07.374 --> 37:13.599 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you are doing some easy-peasy simple carbon steel EDC blades, so you can heat it multiple set of times. 37:14.039 --> 37:23.587 [SPEAKER_02]: And while you are at the checkout, please do remember you use carbon 5 at checkout to say 5% which you can spend, maybe for gamma steel, maybe for other steel, maybe for something 37:24.387 --> 37:28.951 [SPEAKER_02]: And Tricoop, the value of the 5% make a wonderful knife, and he had the other. 37:28.971 --> 37:30.892 [SPEAKER_02]: So, mini-held.io, thank you for sponsoring us. 37:31.533 --> 37:33.214 [SPEAKER_02]: And, they got the next one for you. 37:33.494 --> 37:34.035 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Alex. 37:34.962 --> 37:35.542 [SPEAKER_02]: Back to the show. 37:35.582 --> 37:38.103 [SPEAKER_04]: I came back up the mini hell as well. 37:38.843 --> 37:42.964 [SPEAKER_04]: I used it every since I started and yeah, it's a great skill. 37:43.684 --> 37:50.206 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually this or not me but my apprentice destroyed one or the internal lining and everything. 37:50.766 --> 37:52.006 [SPEAKER_04]: But that's another story. 37:52.086 --> 37:56.087 [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, so I'm on my second one and they just, they are work courses for sure. 37:56.547 --> 37:58.727 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you keep working in the heat up so damn quick? 37:59.288 --> 38:00.468 [SPEAKER_04]: It's yeah, they're great. 38:02.300 --> 38:03.701 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a 3 phase 1? 38:04.641 --> 38:07.642 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I actually have a 1 phase 1. 38:08.042 --> 38:15.725 [SPEAKER_04]: I have a 3 phase connector in my workshop, but this one is normal to 4A volts. 38:17.126 --> 38:22.188 [SPEAKER_02]: Now I really want to know how the fuck do you destroy the inside of it? 38:24.385 --> 38:31.468 [SPEAKER_04]: Please do, I ask my apprentice back in the day to formalize a huge batch of breadcarts. 38:32.148 --> 38:38.471 [SPEAKER_04]: And when I forced the breadcarts, they are not exactly forced to shape, they're a little bit long and, you know, wonky. 38:39.111 --> 38:39.191 [SPEAKER_04]: And 38:40.692 --> 38:46.495 [SPEAKER_04]: He in his infinite wisdom thought it was a super good idea to put all the 30 beats into the killing at the same time. 38:47.215 --> 38:51.737 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, he just ran them in there and out and in and out. 38:51.857 --> 38:57.000 [SPEAKER_04]: And when I came back next day, he's like, what happened to my kill? 38:57.380 --> 39:01.302 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he just, because when the, when it's hot, when it's hot, everything is very porous. 39:02.082 --> 39:05.204 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, so like the blades had put wholeness everywhere. 39:05.224 --> 39:07.345 [SPEAKER_04]: He had destroyed some of the coils and yeah. 39:08.385 --> 39:24.195 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, at least, when Belta Zarwas on the show, he told us that, at least on the new regeneration mini-health, that he is currently selling, it's super easy to change out the coils and with the coils, you can change out all of the, you know, the liner too, basically. 39:24.295 --> 39:34.202 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I actually created my destroyed killing with Jonas for a little pity, and he bought 39:37.104 --> 39:47.335 [SPEAKER_04]: do it because I'm like very thumbs in the middle of my hands kind of guy and I just put a new one and then and sent that destroy one to Jonas. 39:48.096 --> 39:55.284 [SPEAKER_04]: So I know with it for a fact that it's very easy to do because he sent me the details of it and it's very cheap as well. 39:56.085 --> 40:04.612 [SPEAKER_02]: Compared to Jonas got a very good deal, you know, then your apprentice destroys this one give me a call Sure thing. 40:04.772 --> 40:09.697 [SPEAKER_04]: I would like now He's not with me anymore, but I was just listening. 40:09.817 --> 40:10.637 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll make sure 40:14.380 --> 40:23.045 [SPEAKER_03]: I just had a call with Tobias Hangler this week, and he has the same forge that Albert had and he wants to replace it with a mini-heil. 40:23.526 --> 40:33.352 [SPEAKER_03]: So he was talking about maybe getting into a new shop and he wanted to do everything on kill and so he was going to get into the gas forge and all that stuff and to all this forging just a kill. 40:34.252 --> 40:46.035 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so he's looking for a custom mini hell and maybe something with i-bricks or some kind of option so that fortune bars and pull them in and out of the oven doesn't ruin it so quickly. 40:46.355 --> 40:53.717 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, the most big you for just like for instance, Thomas the leaves electric yellow kill and it's for their fortune as well. 40:54.657 --> 41:01.946 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's, and to my us for just quite a quite big scale, I'm not one and so I think it's a good idea. 41:02.667 --> 41:03.988 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe pretty expensive, but. 41:05.510 --> 41:07.332 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, electric might probably be a little bit better for you. 41:07.352 --> 41:12.077 [SPEAKER_03]: It's to explain to the insurance company if you just use an electric kilns and not run an orgasm. 41:12.278 --> 41:12.658 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe. 41:15.322 --> 41:34.007 [SPEAKER_02]: If I am correctly, Alex still did a language video about how to amastiel operates, if I remember or at least I saw something on YouTube and it's really impressive how they just don't turn off the electric kilns or they shut off them very rarely and they are huge, huge. 41:34.067 --> 41:36.008 [SPEAKER_02]: I did not expect them to be this big. 41:36.628 --> 41:39.790 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's their machinery is very, very impressive. 41:40.210 --> 41:45.473 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they have their shop next door, more or less to Irastel. 41:45.893 --> 41:48.014 [SPEAKER_04]: And Irastel is a huge manufacturer. 41:50.318 --> 42:06.003 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I mean, honestly, they, they, of course, have ever, they have melts going 24-7, of course, but yeah, I mean, it's pretty obvious if you have a huge chicken, it's better to just leave it on then to turn it off. 42:07.183 --> 42:09.904 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's solar panels, all green. 42:10.124 --> 42:10.824 [SPEAKER_02]: The warm-up time. 42:11.404 --> 42:12.725 [SPEAKER_02]: Small electricity bill. 42:13.365 --> 42:14.225 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. 42:14.745 --> 42:18.306 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how it's in Sweden, at least here in Los Angeles, it's always the gray sky. 42:18.326 --> 42:23.048 [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it doesn't help a lot. 42:23.208 --> 42:26.589 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not cheap with electricity and the winter is weird, and let me put it that way. 42:28.010 --> 42:31.994 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't why don't we have like a lot of dams and stuff like that? 42:33.575 --> 42:38.059 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a rabbit hole we can go into, but it's not worth it, trust me. 42:38.700 --> 42:40.281 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I understood. 42:41.943 --> 42:43.764 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a hot topic in Sweden. 42:43.925 --> 42:48.128 [SPEAKER_04]: Currently, or was it for the last 5-10 years maybe? 42:48.649 --> 42:49.730 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay. 42:50.350 --> 42:53.934 [SPEAKER_04]: And it was a lot of selling of electricity to other European countries. 42:55.193 --> 43:10.562 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, we followed them and then buying it back for very, very, very high prices, yeah, okay, best deal, best deal, make others rich, yeah, I think that's kind of be really cool to show this year. 43:10.982 --> 43:17.246 [SPEAKER_03]: All the different classes I wish for the makers that they would have maybe some time to do to do the classes, 43:23.336 --> 43:24.918 [SPEAKER_04]: expected little times, down times. 43:26.859 --> 43:28.181 [SPEAKER_04]: So I hope that works out. 43:28.461 --> 43:44.096 [SPEAKER_04]: I have people that can hold my booth, but yeah, it's a little bit weird because most of the makers that want to listen to me and Jonas maybe want to listen to, I don't know, but they are busy in their booths. 43:45.057 --> 43:47.579 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like the customers are going to be like, what is it talking about? 43:47.840 --> 43:48.160 [SPEAKER_04]: What's this 43:50.911 --> 43:58.375 [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe somebody will film these and we can catch some bits and pieces on Marshal's Instagram, be interesting to hear. 43:58.695 --> 44:10.621 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't need to argue in the axe maker, he's holding a seminar as well, and he's quite a youtube guy, so he will probably record it, or I hope so, at least. 44:11.316 --> 44:14.938 [SPEAKER_03]: So you're also going to go over etching down, I'm still, I believe, right? 44:15.318 --> 44:16.579 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's true. 44:17.319 --> 44:34.888 [SPEAKER_04]: So forging the heat treatment and etching and the same there, displaying a lot of myths like you have to heat it to a certain temperature and use this and that's that mix of me re-artic acid and the very 44:41.957 --> 44:44.778 [SPEAKER_04]: and that must still, it's almost bulletproof to edit it. 44:45.738 --> 45:01.381 [SPEAKER_04]: So both me and Jonas use like a two-year-old, a muriatic acid that we just fill up when it evaporates, and we just keep using it in mind actually has a layer of dust that we're relying on the top of it. 45:01.441 --> 45:06.622 [SPEAKER_04]: Not thick layer, but it's far from clean, but it's like it's such a strong acid, so 45:09.402 --> 45:18.528 [SPEAKER_04]: pull the blade up and down from the acid in the start and the rinse away all the like water spots and the air bubbles and stuff. 45:19.068 --> 45:21.450 [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of it's just fine. 45:22.050 --> 45:25.212 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is something that I think a lot of people are like anchoring. 45:25.253 --> 45:31.597 [SPEAKER_02]: And do you find like etching just a plain card one steel more difficult than doing that one steel? 45:32.237 --> 45:32.978 [SPEAKER_02]: or does it require? 45:32.998 --> 45:41.643 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I heard some other from other makers and other shows that there are quite some issues with etching perfectly carbon seals. 45:42.183 --> 45:46.106 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think that depends quite a lot on what kind of etch or after. 45:46.786 --> 45:58.013 [SPEAKER_04]: If you have like a intricate pattern or not intricate but delicate and advanced pattern that you want to showcase, then of course it's very good to 46:03.372 --> 46:08.435 [SPEAKER_04]: Then I would prefer to not do that. 46:09.056 --> 46:13.419 [SPEAKER_04]: When I do my almost all my Damascus is like polished afterwards. 46:14.339 --> 46:24.126 [SPEAKER_04]: So I just etched them in very chloride, polishes away all the, was it called, lock sights, and then I'm good. 46:26.741 --> 46:37.168 [SPEAKER_04]: But I actually think it turns you a question, I think that etching damasteil is actually easier than, or not easier with quicker. 46:37.548 --> 46:40.169 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't require as much preparation. 46:40.730 --> 46:50.216 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just done getting there, forget about it, for a couple of minutes or however long you want, and take it out, neutralize it, polish it or whatever you want, and then it's good. 46:50.796 --> 46:57.301 [SPEAKER_04]: Corbyn is a little bit more finicky in my experience if you have like swadges and that's on it. 46:57.841 --> 46:59.763 [SPEAKER_04]: It is like shining spots. 47:00.743 --> 47:03.825 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I've ever experienced shining spots on the Namosti. 47:05.046 --> 47:07.928 [SPEAKER_04]: Probably because the acid is such a strong. 47:08.649 --> 47:17.175 [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't worked with the Namosti a little bit, but I've heard that you cannot reach as of a big contrast that you can get on a carbon steel. 47:19.437 --> 47:40.463 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, there is some truth to that, you can, this is where the mixing of Ferricloride and Miriatic acid comes in, and it also has a lot to do with what patterns you are using, some patterns are very hard to get strong contrasting, I actually heard this is way back, 47:48.301 --> 47:55.184 [SPEAKER_04]: fridge cold, instant coffee, directly from the acid, so no rinsing or anything. 47:55.805 --> 48:04.429 [SPEAKER_04]: This is from the top of my head, so I might be wrong here, but that's what I think he recommended to get a good contrast. 48:04.829 --> 48:10.052 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually never tried it, as I mentioned, I tried a Polish most of it anyway, and 48:12.983 --> 48:23.132 [SPEAKER_04]: Contrast is harder because you can't copy it in the normal way and you can't use a gate or something like that. 48:23.452 --> 48:29.638 [SPEAKER_02]: And just because we are talking about oxides, maybe you are the best person here to ask about it. 48:30.218 --> 48:42.212 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a difference in the oxidation strength, like comparing carbon steels and damas steel or stainless Damascus or the, you know, they are pretty much the same. 48:42.552 --> 48:46.897 [SPEAKER_02]: When you are talking, you are using the knife in the kitchen, you know with some hard abrasive foods. 48:47.477 --> 48:50.801 [SPEAKER_02]: It's one like stronger or more adhering than the other. 48:52.800 --> 49:00.126 [SPEAKER_04]: You mean, like if you get a big contrast to not have the contrast rubble? 49:00.166 --> 49:00.406 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 49:01.447 --> 49:01.807 [SPEAKER_04]: OK. 49:02.708 --> 49:05.110 [SPEAKER_04]: I actually don't know. 49:05.630 --> 49:09.173 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, stainless oxides are super rough. 49:09.714 --> 49:13.277 [SPEAKER_04]: So I can imagine it's rough. 49:13.417 --> 49:17.620 [SPEAKER_04]: But this is not something that I run into as an issue at all. 49:21.537 --> 49:24.198 [SPEAKER_04]: or making them, yeah, it hasn't even crossed my mind. 49:24.278 --> 49:27.818 [SPEAKER_04]: So, pass, pass, pass, pass on the question. 49:28.118 --> 49:30.979 [SPEAKER_02]: But like, then if you do like custom orders, right? 49:31.099 --> 49:37.220 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't the customers kind of send in their knives to do like spa days and to refurbish it or renew it, you know? 49:38.541 --> 49:42.721 [SPEAKER_02]: Then you could see, you know, how they held up, maybe, or you want to reach some of them. 49:42.781 --> 49:43.942 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm sure. 49:44.982 --> 49:47.742 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the stainless or the stainless knives, 49:50.443 --> 49:57.867 [SPEAKER_04]: refurbished a few of them, and they looked more or less exactly the same as the day I sent them off. 49:58.487 --> 50:01.789 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I had to look some oil, but that's it, more or less. 50:04.550 --> 50:07.993 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very, I mean, that's a downside as well, right? 50:08.153 --> 50:16.099 [SPEAKER_04]: Because you don't get an epitena, it doesn't get any more beautiful, but it's also a beautiful day one, as day 300. 50:16.479 --> 50:19.021 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a good and bad thing. 50:19.701 --> 50:19.841 [SPEAKER_04]: But, 50:22.637 --> 50:27.198 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, oxides, no, I never, never ever thought about it. 50:27.218 --> 50:28.719 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's cross my mind. 50:28.939 --> 50:30.479 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wouldn't call it a down. 50:30.499 --> 50:35.641 [SPEAKER_04]: So my guy is starting to cut using it to cut rope and, uh, and, uh, and with thing. 50:36.061 --> 50:38.502 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, your, your customers might do with your nice. 50:39.782 --> 50:49.631 [SPEAKER_02]: And they held up, like in my mind you mentioned that Patina is, you know, not having a Patina is a negative for me it's a positive. 50:49.711 --> 51:00.820 [SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I like my knives to stay the same know how I bought them I want to, you know, you know, you can, you can pick up a scratch or two, you know, it's fine, it's use marks. 51:01.701 --> 51:07.646 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, keeping it beauty like the maker intended for me it's chef's kiss. 51:08.474 --> 51:09.275 [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely. 51:09.315 --> 51:13.438 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's, as I said, it's a good and bad thing. 51:14.018 --> 51:22.164 [SPEAKER_04]: When you have, like, a very beautifully patina, like when you act, you're, for instance, with blue, blue, and purple use all over the blade. 51:22.584 --> 51:23.685 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's pretty cool. 51:23.745 --> 51:29.849 [SPEAKER_04]: And it usually takes either pretty much luck or a lot of effort and time to get it to look like that. 51:30.489 --> 51:30.970 [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, 51:32.080 --> 51:50.514 [SPEAKER_04]: compared that to people bringing in their lives that are like rusted and pitted because yeah they forgot about it or their relatives put it through the dishwasher of course but yeah it's ups and downs with the bad things 51:51.293 --> 51:55.476 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I hear that you had some real horror stories to despise these stories. 51:55.496 --> 51:56.196 [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely not. 51:56.977 --> 52:00.439 [SPEAKER_04]: My customers are following my instructions to the team. 52:01.619 --> 52:06.002 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, at least they received, you know, like, terms and agreements scroll down. 52:06.182 --> 52:07.523 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I accept that sure. 52:07.563 --> 52:08.283 [SPEAKER_02]: Just give me the knife. 52:08.404 --> 52:08.884 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine. 52:08.904 --> 52:09.324 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 52:09.364 --> 52:10.165 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 52:10.505 --> 52:14.907 [SPEAKER_04]: And the funny thing is, the people that more or less destroyed their 52:20.751 --> 52:24.673 [SPEAKER_02]: People don't value it, it's never paid for it. 52:24.733 --> 52:25.733 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's the issue. 52:25.934 --> 52:30.516 [SPEAKER_04]: People don't actually pay for it because they really won't it, they value it quite a lot more. 52:31.390 --> 52:33.751 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm lucky you are giving them a way. 52:33.771 --> 52:39.553 [SPEAKER_02]: I am way different if somebody ask for a discount, especially friends and family. 52:39.933 --> 52:41.393 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a markup of 20%. 52:41.653 --> 52:44.534 [SPEAKER_02]: You'll pay 20% because you want to support me, right? 52:45.014 --> 52:48.055 [SPEAKER_04]: I agree with that sentiment, absolutely. 52:48.435 --> 52:53.077 [SPEAKER_04]: But as a knife maker, you never have to wonder about what to give people in. 52:53.917 --> 52:55.638 [SPEAKER_04]: Like for birthdays and stuff. 52:55.658 --> 52:58.239 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it's a lot of my shelter. 52:58.799 --> 53:00.120 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's give it away. 53:00.580 --> 53:03.562 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we here in Lothane are a little bit superstitious. 53:03.882 --> 53:06.223 [SPEAKER_02]: So, and we have the saying that you cannot give them life. 53:07.424 --> 53:08.524 [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody has to pay for it. 53:08.544 --> 53:12.366 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, because you will have bad blood between it, you know, re-angry. 53:12.726 --> 53:14.147 [SPEAKER_04]: It's actually the same here in Sweden. 53:14.187 --> 53:16.148 [SPEAKER_04]: You have to pay like at least one crown for it. 53:17.369 --> 53:19.030 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't really care. 53:19.991 --> 53:21.673 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't know that superstitious. 53:22.194 --> 53:25.577 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you know, then you don't have the pitch of less 20%. 53:25.778 --> 53:27.860 [SPEAKER_02]: And they are in the next. 53:28.260 --> 53:28.481 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 53:29.221 --> 53:35.188 [SPEAKER_04]: No, the argument here is really that if you give away a knife, you're going to cut up the relationship. 53:35.869 --> 53:37.350 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's why I don't have any friends. 53:39.979 --> 53:46.823 [SPEAKER_02]: Not because you're a knife maker and sitting in the workshop, you know, all the right. 53:47.044 --> 53:49.085 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and just going on with the theme. 53:49.105 --> 53:57.170 [SPEAKER_02]: We also have one saying that you cannot eat like, you know, when you cut an apple or something, you cannot eat of the, like, of the blade because you will be very angry. 53:57.190 --> 53:58.531 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you will speak negative shit. 53:59.271 --> 53:59.652 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. 54:00.292 --> 54:05.796 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you need to eat, you know, like, but human being, you know, use utensils or fingers at least. 54:06.756 --> 54:11.077 [SPEAKER_03]: We could just do a whole episode about Lithuanian folklore and stuff like that. 54:11.097 --> 54:27.421 [SPEAKER_02]: You guys got some crazy Like last year like we did I was like half the show was me speaking about talking about the New Year's Eve Yeah, yeah Very cool. 54:27.441 --> 54:33.683 [SPEAKER_03]: Well Frederick do you have any big projects coming up anything new you are talk about before we end this show 54:36.139 --> 54:37.720 [SPEAKER_04]: something new, not really new. 54:38.000 --> 54:46.807 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just doing my old stuff, doing my bread swords, doing my classes, doing some big batches. 54:47.487 --> 54:51.910 [SPEAKER_04]: I've started working with a retailer where very far away. 54:52.511 --> 54:56.854 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's going to be an interesting relationship to follow and see how it goes. 54:57.554 --> 55:01.317 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I'm just working alone. 55:02.519 --> 55:03.239 [SPEAKER_04]: It's logging through. 55:04.059 --> 55:08.401 [SPEAKER_03]: Where can people find you or get a hold of a night so I'm making an order if you have any. 55:09.241 --> 55:16.983 [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, now that you mentioned it, I have a brand new website that a friend of mine started. 55:17.443 --> 55:21.784 [SPEAKER_04]: It's an old, what's it called? 55:21.964 --> 55:23.725 [SPEAKER_04]: Competitor to you, Keith. 55:23.885 --> 55:28.206 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a British website for selling stuff. 55:28.826 --> 55:34.430 [SPEAKER_04]: But he put together also websites. 55:34.450 --> 55:37.493 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's spare knives.com or spare knives. 55:38.433 --> 55:40.235 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's supposed to be up and running now. 55:40.315 --> 55:41.416 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a working progress. 55:41.496 --> 55:43.617 [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it's awesome. 55:43.977 --> 55:46.279 [SPEAKER_04]: There and also Instagram, just to feel it expired. 55:47.360 --> 55:49.982 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we got Albert and Pauli both checking out the website. 55:50.002 --> 55:51.003 [SPEAKER_03]: Now the draws are dropping. 55:51.183 --> 55:52.764 [SPEAKER_03]: So must be a nice website. 55:52.824 --> 55:53.825 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like a lot. 55:53.885 --> 55:54.886 [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't been in it. 55:54.966 --> 55:56.327 [SPEAKER_04]: I need to shake care. 55:57.633 --> 56:01.075 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's pretty cool, especially the scrawl effect on the live. 56:01.195 --> 56:02.196 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know live going on. 56:02.216 --> 56:06.278 [SPEAKER_04]: And actually you have an English alternative to change the language. 56:06.558 --> 56:08.739 [SPEAKER_04]: It's such, it's so modern and advanced. 56:09.119 --> 56:12.561 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't understand how it's, but yeah. 56:12.581 --> 56:16.143 [SPEAKER_04]: And now nowadays, I have all my back end on the website. 56:16.243 --> 56:18.844 [SPEAKER_04]: Like earlier, I used the cartel website. 56:19.365 --> 56:22.826 [SPEAKER_04]: And I had to use different apps to reach different things. 56:22.946 --> 56:24.567 [SPEAKER_04]: And there were limitations. 56:26.008 --> 56:29.709 [SPEAKER_04]: I can ask for anything and it's like, yeah, it's I fixed that. 56:30.350 --> 56:31.170 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's great. 56:33.291 --> 56:50.657 [SPEAKER_04]: And on that website, now hopefully it's I'm going to be able to take customers through the website instead of through a Google document that I used previously and it's going to be like much easier for the customer because now they pick their alternative different choices. 56:50.717 --> 56:51.237 [SPEAKER_04]: They see the 56:52.537 --> 56:53.378 [SPEAKER_04]: finished price. 56:53.498 --> 56:57.802 [SPEAKER_04]: They see like everything is much more upfront. 56:57.842 --> 57:01.845 [SPEAKER_04]: So everyone knows what's involved and it's yeah it's super smooth. 57:02.686 --> 57:12.994 [SPEAKER_04]: Also the class is the same there when they book get they receive the welcome welcome email with instructions on everything like as a welcome email. 57:14.514 --> 57:17.855 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it removes so much headache from me. 57:19.455 --> 57:22.596 [SPEAKER_04]: The admin work has a knife maker is pretty insane. 57:23.237 --> 57:30.219 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm very happy to get rid of it, most of it. 57:30.239 --> 57:34.420 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a, that's a hell of an upgrade in the back end from a Google 57:41.962 --> 57:51.370 [SPEAKER_02]: I know if they want something truly truly custom, then it may be depends, but if they can dare as a forum, they can input all of the information up front them, it's still such. 57:51.570 --> 58:00.558 [SPEAKER_04]: Those customs that they can put together through the website, that's like what you recall it, standard, like what most people order. 58:00.938 --> 58:08.565 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, people contact me and ask for different stuff as well, some stupid stuff and some really awesome stuff, and 58:10.162 --> 58:28.097 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, when I had Bench's great person ordered, for instance, I just told them to put down custom order and just write in the comment, it's a Bench great, because I have a down payment for 50 euros to order custom, just so I know that they're like serious about it, and you just deduct that from the final pay. 58:28.557 --> 58:31.739 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, so it's just an easy way to 58:32.889 --> 58:37.812 [SPEAKER_04]: have everything in the same place, yeah it's it's great. 58:38.993 --> 58:48.959 [SPEAKER_04]: I did not think I was going to be sitting by the computer and like messaging and emailing as much as I do when I started making knives. 58:49.699 --> 58:51.740 [SPEAKER_02]: And now you will have to do it way less. 58:52.021 --> 58:53.802 [SPEAKER_04]: So just I at least a little bit less. 58:54.022 --> 58:59.045 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah you wake up and you see oh I have to make this and make that and make this all the orders that came in. 59:00.529 --> 59:11.211 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it could be a little bit of a stress factor because you don't know the upcoming jobs because the, you know, just an order drops in while you are finishing the day and it kind of makes up the plans for the next day, maybe. 59:11.831 --> 59:17.432 [SPEAKER_04]: But now, but I never, if you order a custom today, you're receiving it in a couple of months. 59:17.833 --> 59:21.653 [SPEAKER_04]: So I just save up a bunch and they make like 10 custom set at the same time. 59:22.293 --> 59:24.094 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's more like, uh, 59:25.234 --> 59:31.018 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you pile them up and then, or I do that, I pile them up and make them in batches instead. 59:31.358 --> 59:41.224 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, don't get customers kind of mad because if you are buying, you know, before that you are doing like sales via, I guess, DMs, you know, or maybe like that. 59:42.265 --> 59:49.169 [SPEAKER_02]: But now when people are clicked by in the website and you know, there is no knife for two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, 59:50.290 --> 59:56.852 [SPEAKER_02]: And they are, you know, like they should, I forgot the word, but you know, they use Amazon and they expect next day shipping. 59:57.112 --> 59:58.213 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I understand what to say. 59:58.493 --> 01:00:08.777 [SPEAKER_04]: Now that I people that for lack of a better word, behave like that, they are really not customers of ours. 01:00:08.997 --> 01:00:12.398 [SPEAKER_04]: I think people that turn to us to get a knife, 01:00:13.098 --> 01:00:18.783 [SPEAKER_04]: I think most of them expect to have some waiting time if they don't buy an already made knife, of course. 01:00:19.123 --> 01:00:25.989 [SPEAKER_04]: If you have a knife that says available on the website and you've said it out after two months, yeah that's an issue of course. 01:00:26.149 --> 01:00:34.936 [SPEAKER_04]: But if it's a custom order, I think even have it on the fine print, that this is like delivery time, one to three months or something. 01:00:35.076 --> 01:00:36.137 [SPEAKER_04]: I am not sure what he will 01:00:42.142 --> 01:00:48.727 [SPEAKER_04]: And I very rarely met people who complain about that very rarely. 01:00:49.287 --> 01:00:50.849 [SPEAKER_03]: It's definitely a nice upgrade. 01:00:50.869 --> 01:00:57.213 [SPEAKER_03]: I know I was looking for information to put in your bio when we did the Edge of Hope website. 01:00:57.273 --> 01:01:05.580 [SPEAKER_03]: It's very important for the knife maker to not only have an easy to use website, but to keep it updated as Paul mentioned with knives that are available. 01:01:05.620 --> 01:01:09.163 [SPEAKER_03]: I know that's not always easy to take some time away from the shop. 01:01:10.505 --> 01:01:21.637 [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's true, and I mean, I think most of us use Instagram as the main platform for communicating and selling stuff, not directly selling, but marketing, so to speak. 01:01:21.998 --> 01:01:28.545 [SPEAKER_04]: And, but to have a nice website as a, what's your call, home base? 01:01:28.986 --> 01:01:30.207 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's pretty nice. 01:01:31.092 --> 01:01:56.529 [SPEAKER_03]: better to funnel people, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 01:01:57.383 --> 01:02:10.886 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I think I think Martin said 40 people infeding there something like that so Yeah, all right guys, we will talk to you on next week Bye for now