WEBVTT 00:00.633 --> 00:05.954 [SPEAKER_01]: On this week's show, the intelligence lab with a mere berman from Bill Dots. 00:16.633 --> 00:17.854 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, I'm here. 00:18.455 --> 00:19.296 [SPEAKER_01]: Good to see you. 00:19.336 --> 00:22.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for hopping in for a fun little episode. 00:22.719 --> 00:23.160 [SPEAKER_01]: How you doing? 00:23.240 --> 00:23.840 [SPEAKER_01]: Very well, buddy. 00:23.940 --> 00:24.521 [SPEAKER_01]: Happy to be here. 00:24.881 --> 00:25.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot. 00:25.842 --> 00:26.503 [SPEAKER_01]: It's good to have you. 00:26.523 --> 00:27.104 [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you coming at? 00:27.124 --> 00:27.384 [SPEAKER_01]: It's from. 00:27.404 --> 00:30.006 [SPEAKER_01]: I always love these when I went this podcast world. 00:30.026 --> 00:32.589 [SPEAKER_01]: We get to interview people from so many different places in the world. 00:33.009 --> 00:39.276 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm currently right now from Tel Aviv Israel, which is like a nice breezy kind of evening for September right now. 00:39.316 --> 00:40.257 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that cold yet. 00:40.797 --> 00:42.720 [SPEAKER_01]: We're a little cold here, but that's good. 00:42.820 --> 00:43.801 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's interesting. 00:43.821 --> 00:47.446 [SPEAKER_01]: Tel Aviv, we have seen a lot of construction startups come out of there over the year. 00:47.527 --> 00:51.372 [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that'll be something we talk about when we get into talking. 00:51.592 --> 00:53.635 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, guys, remember, check us out. 00:53.655 --> 00:55.317 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be at Trimble Dimensions. 00:55.838 --> 00:56.879 [SPEAKER_01]: in just a couple of weeks. 00:57.319 --> 01:12.273 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to see us live on stage, with and around some of the most incredible technology and hardware, come check us out on stage, join up now, trimble.com, get your tickets, look for us, talk to us, who knows, you might be the next guest. 01:12.653 --> 01:13.774 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'm here. 01:14.355 --> 01:15.756 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know how this works? 01:15.976 --> 01:22.202 [SPEAKER_01]: Give us a little background on you, sort of how you got here all the way up to what you're doing now today at Build That. 01:22.590 --> 01:23.391 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a fun part. 01:23.411 --> 01:25.833 [SPEAKER_00]: You always ask yourself, like, where do you start? 01:25.933 --> 01:28.255 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll give you the headline. 01:28.295 --> 01:34.980 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm here, Breman, I'm leading the build-outs intelligence lab, which is like a very fun and exciting kind of initiative from build-outs. 01:35.200 --> 01:39.764 [SPEAKER_00]: As a background, I bring like, it's awful to say, but almost like 20 years in technology. 01:39.824 --> 01:41.565 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I went through this two down with like many years. 01:41.785 --> 01:45.148 [SPEAKER_00]: So 20 years in data and technology software. 01:45.588 --> 01:50.111 [SPEAKER_00]: And for the past 10 years I've been working for various different construction tech companies. 01:50.351 --> 01:54.013 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm kind of a weird mixture between like a data geek and a construction geek. 01:54.134 --> 01:58.236 [SPEAKER_00]: And funny enough, like the lab is like the perfect place to land if you love it. 01:58.696 --> 02:13.846 [SPEAKER_00]: On the lab, we kind of look at like different performance metrics and benchmarks for like the for the construction industry or the purpose of like starting to standardize things and measure things and help everyone to become just a bit better. 02:14.306 --> 02:22.091 [SPEAKER_00]: I trade in my background, I'm like a product manager who really loves data and funnily enough for your love's construction. 02:22.371 --> 02:26.653 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say the funny part, which I'm not sure if it's like karma, I'm not sure if I ever told you that. 02:26.713 --> 02:34.618 [SPEAKER_00]: Like my parents back in the day, do you know that they had like a mom-in-pops kind of family business for printing out like who those construction shop drawings? 02:34.956 --> 02:40.178 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I know that, so they back in the day of what a blueprint is, you had to print it out. 02:40.398 --> 02:50.403 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I remember like all of my summer vacations as kids, I would go and work there for my summer vacations, like half work here, like spend the time because we can't be alone at home. 02:51.103 --> 02:57.106 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like printing and folding lows, like giant sheets of paper for construction company. 02:57.126 --> 03:02.268 [SPEAKER_00]: So I know if it's like on the stars or reading somewhere, but I find myself like in construction 03:03.097 --> 03:03.457 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 03:03.697 --> 03:05.298 [SPEAKER_01]: And so talk to me about that. 03:05.378 --> 03:12.220 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a 20 years sort of as a, you know, more on the data and technology side, what brought you over to construction. 03:12.260 --> 03:13.360 [SPEAKER_01]: What was that first leap. 03:13.400 --> 03:15.641 [SPEAKER_00]: Look like it's an even from a friend, believe it or not. 03:15.701 --> 03:21.443 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I started my journey in data and product management for online advertising. 03:21.743 --> 03:24.224 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, back in the day it was online ads serving. 03:24.284 --> 03:27.105 [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't anything close to construction. 03:27.325 --> 03:48.458 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I saw the specializing a bit more in different companies for what we called back then like big data for advertising and how do you merge together information from different data sources and one day I think it came across like the day that I I didn't find any kind of excitement in advertising and marketing and a friend of mine in Israel like everyone works in tech eventually in Israel. 03:48.578 --> 03:50.159 [SPEAKER_00]: He came to me and said, like, yeah, you know what? 03:50.379 --> 03:54.660 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a young construction tech company looking for a product manager. 03:54.680 --> 03:55.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know anyone? 03:55.821 --> 03:58.862 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a code name for like, hey, do you want to meet those guys? 03:58.902 --> 04:00.522 [SPEAKER_00]: Without him actually asking this. 04:00.762 --> 04:02.983 [SPEAKER_00]: So my first response was like, no way. 04:03.003 --> 04:04.304 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean construction tech? 04:04.324 --> 04:05.484 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing to do in there. 04:05.524 --> 04:06.724 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you mean? 04:07.265 --> 04:09.065 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, no, no, no, go in meet those guys. 04:09.085 --> 04:09.665 [SPEAKER_00]: They're interesting. 04:09.705 --> 04:11.506 [SPEAKER_00]: So I went there and I met them. 04:11.546 --> 04:14.127 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, two guys, two Israelis, not related to the bill dots. 04:14.587 --> 04:20.393 [SPEAKER_00]: and that was a different company and I met them and they were like, smart as hell, but what do you mean construction? 04:20.413 --> 04:21.474 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing to do in here. 04:21.494 --> 04:24.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I was like stupid and, I know, uneducated. 04:24.337 --> 04:27.721 [SPEAKER_00]: And I told them like, you're smart and everything, but let's wrap it up. 04:27.781 --> 04:29.483 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't see me joining you guys. 04:30.183 --> 04:33.404 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure enough, I joined them eventually, I met them a few more times and I joined. 04:33.644 --> 04:37.785 [SPEAKER_00]: We were doing augmented reality for the field back then, that was like I think it was 2015. 04:37.885 --> 04:55.429 [SPEAKER_00]: If you remember that era where AR was like a strong thing, and this is where I kind of fell in love for the first time with the people in construction and the challenges and everything, like I've spent weeks and month on job sites and everywhere in the U.S. and the U.K. 04:55.649 --> 05:11.787 [SPEAKER_00]: In Turkey, believe it or not, in Bangkok, in France, like all around the globe, and I just like, I know something clicked with the people, the challenges, the problems, and I was still very early in my journey in construction, but this is how I randomly got into it and build us my third station in this journey. 05:12.065 --> 05:27.945 [SPEAKER_01]: it's a classic right around the time nobody thinking that the industry was much I'm one of those you know as a couple of years ahead of you there I think coming over and just thinking there's nothing here I'm gonna get out and then realizing pretty quickly through the work it's the work it's the people 05:28.245 --> 05:36.230 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that the world around you is built by people and filled with ideas and hard work and real outcomes. 05:36.270 --> 05:39.572 [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of sucks you in and then next thing you know you're like, this is where I have to be. 05:40.153 --> 05:49.599 [SPEAKER_01]: And then for our technology minds, the complex nature of the problems themselves and then the interactions. 05:50.500 --> 05:52.742 [SPEAKER_01]: has always been, it's never ending. 05:52.842 --> 05:59.206 [SPEAKER_01]: Every time I turn around and think I know enough about sort of how it all works, there's something new that I learned. 05:59.546 --> 06:04.690 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what's cool about this industry and continuing to peel back the layers. 06:04.930 --> 06:05.711 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep finding more right. 06:05.731 --> 06:07.752 [SPEAKER_01]: You solve in problems early, sometimes not. 06:07.892 --> 06:23.976 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, like I was on that augmented reality training and we don't have to beat that one, but it was like maybe ahead of its time, and that's part of the process, too, like how many real finance or advertising, or you're not in on the ground floor, kind of gone through their arc. 06:24.056 --> 06:28.677 [SPEAKER_01]: And now you're starting to look at their data and figure out how to, you know, sell somebody one more widget. 06:28.717 --> 06:29.317 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, 06:30.537 --> 06:31.418 [SPEAKER_00]: I get to work with you. 06:31.438 --> 06:32.339 [SPEAKER_00]: I had the same feeling. 06:32.399 --> 06:37.405 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was like sitting like back then New York in one ages See I was like I don't want to do this man. 06:37.425 --> 06:43.792 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to optimize yet another like click or somewhere like all right That's enough for me speaking about this industry like I love mine. 06:43.812 --> 06:47.716 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to it was great too because it it just provided a new set of challenges. 06:47.776 --> 06:50.919 [SPEAKER_01]: So now you're over here and what do you think? 06:51.580 --> 06:57.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Surprised you coming from such a mature data and technology background when you got over here. 06:57.463 --> 06:58.863 [SPEAKER_01]: What surprised you when you got over here? 06:59.304 --> 07:00.344 [SPEAKER_01]: Into that construction world. 07:00.564 --> 07:04.766 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't a surprise at the beginning because as I said, I came like green thumb. 07:04.906 --> 07:06.527 [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't like a veteran by any sense. 07:07.387 --> 07:18.594 [SPEAKER_00]: What started surprising me after a few years is that the amount of technology in construction is massive like people often say like there's not enough technology there's not enough technology adoption I mean, that's not the case. 07:18.775 --> 07:30.002 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like people's definition for technology maybe like a quirky, but think about all of the machinery all of the information all of the different legacy systems that you have you have a ton of technology it's not a problem of the colleges 07:30.342 --> 07:38.027 [SPEAKER_00]: So around you, I think that what drives me is the fact that there's like the amount of opportunities that you had in front of us. 07:38.127 --> 07:45.031 [SPEAKER_00]: If you start to kind of figure out how to connect the different dots and I not swear, it's not like a segway for Bill, it does like with the Bill dots, but 07:45.871 --> 07:50.012 [SPEAKER_00]: If you start connecting the dots and you start to understand, like, how can I leverage the existence? 07:50.633 --> 07:54.154 [SPEAKER_00]: How can I leverage the all the things that exist in the industry? 07:54.194 --> 07:57.655 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything that people already use, all the things that have been implemented. 07:57.855 --> 08:01.456 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, tested for years and years, and been regulated. 08:01.516 --> 08:04.037 [SPEAKER_00]: And people, like, got to know really well. 08:04.737 --> 08:14.019 [SPEAKER_00]: if you figure out how to utilize it and squeeze the lemon just a bit more and gain like new value for people that's probably the biggest opportunity. 08:14.059 --> 08:28.102 [SPEAKER_00]: People often come to this industry saying like okay let's get like a completely something new something that was was never seen which sometimes may work but the thing the real opportunity is like leveraging the existing and connect it and generate something new from it. 08:28.382 --> 08:34.447 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that idea because we did hear that a lot in the early days of disruption and we're just going to disrupt the industry. 08:34.467 --> 08:51.660 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to fully change and it's not going to look like you thought it was and like well, are you guys really pulling your lens back and looking at how it has changed because it has significantly changed and I fully agree with the technology because you're looking at the types of tools, the types of equipment. 08:52.380 --> 09:01.065 [SPEAKER_01]: And just in the end, look at the types of facilities we're building versus, you know, you don't go to a new stadium now and think, wow, that looks like an old stadium. 09:01.365 --> 09:06.088 [SPEAKER_01]: Every new stadium is state of the art and hospitals. 09:06.268 --> 09:10.271 [SPEAKER_01]: And now in the hyperscaler and data center world, like we're just... 09:10.911 --> 09:18.397 [SPEAKER_01]: building newer, more advanced, more complicated, technologically advanced buildings and structures. 09:18.497 --> 09:20.719 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it does take new tools to do that. 09:20.759 --> 09:23.521 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have been doing it's, but you're right. 09:23.561 --> 09:26.543 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not necessarily fitting the definition. 09:26.643 --> 09:30.926 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also I think to your point, we're not leveraging 09:31.967 --> 09:35.428 [SPEAKER_01]: the data for the feedback loop that we really need. 09:35.448 --> 09:43.609 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the component where people are like, you're behind, I don't know the where behind it, but I don't think we've connected to reach our potential, right? 09:43.629 --> 09:55.892 [SPEAKER_01]: If we start doing that, so take me back for a second into sort of, got to start somewhere and build.started with a problem and kind of focus me there, so then that we can go to now where you've taken it. 09:56.112 --> 10:01.795 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's go back to the basics about like what is build is a problem that we're handling and why is that that we exist? 10:02.835 --> 10:06.797 [SPEAKER_00]: So to put it like in a simple way, like BuildLots is a construction intelligence platform. 10:07.137 --> 10:17.441 [SPEAKER_00]: The very like a BuildLots 101 is that we use AI and computer vision, obviously, to analyze what's actually being built on each and every project against its clients. 10:17.782 --> 10:21.043 [SPEAKER_00]: So whenever like a project starts to drift, 10:21.323 --> 10:33.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Whenever things go sideways, not according to plan, the teams that run, the project, everyone who is involved from the supply chain to the owner, to the contractors, they see it early enough so they can respond on time. 10:33.596 --> 10:37.540 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you remember one thing is all about generating more time. 10:38.321 --> 10:42.223 [SPEAKER_00]: for people to act on problems that this will come no matter what, right? 10:42.343 --> 10:43.063 [SPEAKER_00]: How does it work? 10:43.123 --> 10:45.525 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that we analyze automatically? 10:45.765 --> 10:47.025 [SPEAKER_00]: Anything that the I can see? 10:47.465 --> 11:00.272 [SPEAKER_00]: We capture the structure of the building, the underground utilities, the facade, any p-ruffins, finishes, you know, meaning and death comes from reality capture being taken by 360 cameras. 11:01.392 --> 11:26.064 [SPEAKER_00]: by drones, by laser scan is anything existing in the industry already I mean all the techniques that have been available for a while and we also track manpower and labor data from the project so we kind of capture all the different project kind of data that we can to tell you like how things are actually going and we use AI to compare it to the original plan so we will tell you whether you're on time against your schedule. 11:26.784 --> 11:33.928 [SPEAKER_00]: and we can track individual different elements that we extract from takeoff-strong the model and from your drawings. 11:34.408 --> 11:41.792 [SPEAKER_00]: So we create this kind of unique specific data model for each and every project which is highly detailed, highly developed. 11:41.812 --> 11:55.360 [SPEAKER_00]: That matches precisely how the product is going to be built and we use AI in reality capture to actually automatically tell you how things are progressing so that you can get more time to respond whenever things go sideways. 11:55.912 --> 11:58.313 [SPEAKER_01]: that early warning system, the early detection. 11:58.614 --> 12:05.358 [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny, because along the way, we saw a lot of drones and you kept saying, oh, we got 360's, you know, and we got this. 12:05.518 --> 12:10.921 [SPEAKER_01]: You could see this reality capture of all the elements needing to come together. 12:10.941 --> 12:15.143 [SPEAKER_01]: And I like the idea of a project data model because every project you need, right? 12:15.163 --> 12:16.844 [SPEAKER_01]: It has its own unique set. 12:16.904 --> 12:22.348 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the thing that all the disruptors wanted to change that I don't think you can ever change. 12:23.068 --> 12:28.092 [SPEAKER_01]: is that they are all unique and individual from a certain perspective, right? 12:28.192 --> 12:37.778 [SPEAKER_01]: Certain parts and pieces, you know, should be more repeatable from a fabrication and consumption-based ability to produce faster, right? 12:37.838 --> 12:47.485 [SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean that the building itself, that the structure itself isn't unique in its operation, isn't unique in the way it's delivering value to its owner. 12:47.645 --> 12:50.106 [SPEAKER_01]: So in that respect, it's got to stay unique. 12:50.987 --> 12:55.128 [SPEAKER_01]: but it also has core componentry that it's going to be the same every time. 12:55.548 --> 12:57.228 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a cool way to look at it. 12:57.508 --> 12:59.349 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, that kind of piece of unique. 12:59.389 --> 13:01.289 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say that it's a conversation. 13:01.329 --> 13:05.750 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, uh, I'm not sure where the way to a full, or the each and every day, I'll give a death example. 13:05.790 --> 13:07.210 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, each and every building is unique. 13:07.550 --> 13:13.611 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if you run like an asset class of the same thing, you're running like a $2 billion asset class for healthcare. 13:13.791 --> 13:15.411 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to do healthcare facilities. 13:15.451 --> 13:17.692 [SPEAKER_00]: And even if you focus on healthcare facilities for 13:18.412 --> 13:20.934 [SPEAKER_00]: veterans in the Midwest, as a specific as can be. 13:21.354 --> 13:33.084 [SPEAKER_00]: Each and every building is going to be slightly different, different budget, different standard, different sides, whatever it is, but and this is like the funny thing, like if you strip the building from the characteristics, some elements of it are 13:33.744 --> 13:35.005 [SPEAKER_00]: repetitive, are the same. 13:35.205 --> 14:00.884 [SPEAKER_00]: You have the same kind of trade visits, you have the same MEP reference roughly, and you can find that thread that you can train technology, and you can train data sets, and data models to kind of find that rapid ability, and a thing is kind of that unique mixture to understand where is uniqueness, relevant, and where is this repetition, and drive to look for kind of standardization, and look for things that technology can actually do as a heavy lifting. 14:03.206 --> 14:05.728 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I think that's where it has to land. 14:05.868 --> 14:11.613 [SPEAKER_01]: If we land it in the it was all vanilla, then it wouldn't be very fun. 14:11.814 --> 14:17.338 [SPEAKER_01]: If we continue and I will say continue in the wild wild west of everything's unique from the ground up. 14:17.378 --> 14:24.645 [SPEAKER_01]: We're never going to reach the potential of the industry and quite frankly we're at a precipice now where we can't afford that because we don't have the labor. 14:25.025 --> 14:30.126 [SPEAKER_01]: or the materials to be honest, like there's a lot of material waste in that process of rework, right? 14:30.146 --> 14:35.888 [SPEAKER_01]: We were burning up people by reworking them and reinventing the wheel every project after project. 14:35.908 --> 14:38.608 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also, admin burden, where are we? 14:38.888 --> 14:40.149 [SPEAKER_01]: What is our percent complete? 14:40.189 --> 14:43.449 [SPEAKER_01]: What is our work in progress, you know, any of that? 14:43.609 --> 14:52.892 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a yes-in, yes, and we need to measure, and we need to standardize, and there are threads that should be the same over and over, because then we can measure, right? 14:55.112 --> 14:56.613 [SPEAKER_01]: until you can properly measure it. 14:56.814 --> 15:03.919 [SPEAKER_00]: There is like a two sites for this conversation I completely agree with you and I think that whenever you go on on the project you look at it from the project lens. 15:04.260 --> 15:07.002 [SPEAKER_00]: But what happens when you look at it from from a business expected? 15:07.382 --> 15:13.147 [SPEAKER_00]: Like let's say I'm running like a hundred different projects or it does matter really matter on the scale of your operations. 15:13.547 --> 15:23.913 [SPEAKER_00]: What you want to do is to really be able to assess your level of predictability and your level of, you know, how are my doing business, how well can I improve it, and so on and so on. 15:23.973 --> 15:37.761 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's only one way, oh, maybe it's too native to say, but I think it's very efficient to try and standardize your business, which is like the fundamental base for measurement and in time that's the fundamental base for any improvement. 15:38.041 --> 15:41.083 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and those are different depending on what you do. 15:41.923 --> 15:59.082 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a mechanical electrical plumber, drywallor, you know, glaze or finish or whatever you might be, it's different and looking at your at the projects important and there's this big project lens, but then there's also like you said your own business lens. 15:59.382 --> 16:05.245 [SPEAKER_01]: And how are we doing as a business and where can we improve and how can we measure that? 16:05.426 --> 16:18.013 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the too many, especially that midsize, too many of the leaders are working in projects and in companies instead of on projects and on the company. 16:18.453 --> 16:38.619 [SPEAKER_01]: like looking at it from the whole where are we doing well where aren't we how do we approach those things instead of the old days of you know this project is fine until it's not fine and then we'll either swoop in and yell at everybody and try and fight our way or we'll like send a whole bunch of crack the black ops team into 16:39.019 --> 16:40.760 [SPEAKER_01]: Fixed it up, you know, you can't do that. 16:40.820 --> 16:41.741 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't afford to anymore. 16:41.961 --> 16:45.323 [SPEAKER_01]: And one miss, pretty smart margins in a lot of areas, man. 16:45.343 --> 16:50.567 [SPEAKER_01]: So a miss might be the company's profit for the year, anything insignificant. 16:50.667 --> 16:55.470 [SPEAKER_01]: And at some point in time, and we've seen it now, could be the business, could be gone tomorrow because of it. 16:55.730 --> 16:58.652 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I'm a bit biased because this is kind of my nature. 16:58.672 --> 17:01.174 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how I think this, how my company are company thinks. 17:01.234 --> 17:05.356 [SPEAKER_00]: But I truly believe that this is kind of like the way to standardize and made it this is like that. 17:05.516 --> 17:07.458 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the next possible leaps going forward. 17:08.018 --> 17:14.161 [SPEAKER_00]: to connect different pieces together because frankly I don't think that as a technology sector for this industry. 17:14.301 --> 17:19.784 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that we served our industry very well on providing that well connected infrastructure. 17:20.140 --> 17:38.715 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that's, you know, as we talk pretty call, you know, the crew and the construction progress coalition are tied together these days and we believe that, you know, I think we've always said that we need to serve this industry better by connecting more sources of data, by providing more benchmarking, providing what we can to help the industry continue to gather that. 17:38.795 --> 17:43.419 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is a nice segue because, you know, you guys, you've been very successful at Build. 17:43.439 --> 17:45.921 [SPEAKER_01]: So, got to this point, and I'm sure it was eating at you. 17:46.922 --> 18:01.957 [SPEAKER_01]: And that there was an opportunity to talk about to build the intelligence lab and what it means to you and then what I think is great is in why we sat down and talk today is like what it means to the larger industry to Yeah, I mean the lab was always like was bubbling in the back of our minds. 18:02.217 --> 18:03.838 [SPEAKER_00]: especially for the past few years. 18:03.979 --> 18:20.933 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the background story for the lab is that a few years ago, I think that whenever we made that jump, we made it leap on being a progress trekking tool, to like a tool that allows you to kind of track how work is being done, not only to tell you like what's the percentage complete for each and every task, but why they're like, 18:21.393 --> 18:22.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this good enough? 18:22.433 --> 18:25.955 [SPEAKER_00]: And we started asking, like, okay, so how do you determine if something is good? 18:26.055 --> 18:26.715 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you determine? 18:26.875 --> 18:30.437 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously at the end of the day, if you're if you're late to deliver, like, I'll know. 18:30.557 --> 18:31.457 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be helpful. 18:31.697 --> 18:34.298 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be as providing you values early. 18:34.398 --> 18:34.879 [SPEAKER_00]: It's possible. 18:34.939 --> 18:38.560 [SPEAKER_00]: So we had to put our minds into like, okay, what good looks like. 18:38.720 --> 18:39.921 [SPEAKER_00]: And we were not doing it alone. 18:39.981 --> 18:41.501 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that we always operated. 18:41.521 --> 18:43.802 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like we embedded ourselves on job sites. 18:43.862 --> 18:44.903 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, but we're going to be there. 18:45.403 --> 19:13.417 [SPEAKER_00]: They in they out we're gonna sit in your black hat meetings your tack meeting whatever it is and I remember those time I was sitting there and say like okay, why are you yelling at this electrician got for a bit like why is this like and he said well I need him to do like three floors, you know on those two weeks I was like okay why three why no two why five where you come up with his numbers and he had those like ballpark numbers And he's had it that's this how they operate like to the best that they can right, but then we were crunching some numbers We said like okay, but we kind of calculate everything towards the end 19:13.757 --> 19:19.444 [SPEAKER_00]: based on the fact that we know precise quantities and we know, like, how many controversy you've been installed and so on and so on. 19:19.504 --> 19:24.570 [SPEAKER_00]: We said, like, if you're running up the numbers, I actually need him or you actually need him, like, half a foot. 19:24.770 --> 19:25.010 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. 19:25.250 --> 19:26.852 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's been operating quite well. 19:26.932 --> 19:33.540 [SPEAKER_00]: So we had this, like, very early notion of, like, we need to be able to provide numbers of what good looks like. 19:33.640 --> 19:37.785 [SPEAKER_00]: because you need to provide that signal to make sure that you're quite accurate. 19:38.065 --> 19:49.538 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're almost like the kind of you're like the coach or the conductor, not us, but as the lead superior, like the conductor, the coach, you want to make sure that everyone in your team is operating in a well coordinated manner. 19:49.858 --> 19:53.639 [SPEAKER_00]: from production standpoint, from flow sequence, everything that happens. 19:53.699 --> 20:02.801 [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you want to make sure like, hey, if something isn't going quite right, might be that something is holding them back, maybe even if the electrician wasn't working, to hit his numbers. 20:03.061 --> 20:05.142 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's something that is holding him back. 20:05.182 --> 20:07.542 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how can I unclog the button like, right? 20:07.682 --> 20:09.783 [SPEAKER_00]: So, back in the day that was the background. 20:09.823 --> 20:27.728 [SPEAKER_00]: Years went by, and then we figured out that, well, you know what, when we start to look not as, not just as the predictive analytics and not only as a kind of risk prevention, we want to steal like, okay, if any of you haven't started anything on your project, how do we know if you're a plan that you align your entire supply chain? 20:28.188 --> 20:29.288 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we know if it's right? 20:29.808 --> 20:31.149 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we know if it's optimized? 20:31.349 --> 20:32.269 [SPEAKER_00]: We had trade. 20:33.049 --> 20:35.673 [SPEAKER_00]: that we were involved in their projects from GSI side. 20:35.693 --> 20:36.594 [SPEAKER_00]: They were saying, you know what? 20:36.954 --> 20:40.960 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we just have a build-out to tell us what to do when to do and where? 20:41.321 --> 20:43.163 [SPEAKER_00]: And at first we thought it was a joke. 20:43.203 --> 20:44.485 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously we're not doing it today. 20:44.525 --> 20:47.990 [SPEAKER_00]: But we had this notion that, well, how do you know that you're a schedule? 20:48.190 --> 20:51.412 [SPEAKER_00]: that you're a tuck plan, where that you're quantities, everything is makes sense. 20:51.432 --> 20:52.553 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you know it's optimized? 20:52.573 --> 20:54.214 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you know that you don't overshoot? 20:54.354 --> 20:56.956 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you know that you're not leaving money on the table? 20:57.136 --> 21:02.200 [SPEAKER_00]: So we figured out that we need to be able to determine if something is good, if it's realistic or not. 21:02.280 --> 21:04.041 [SPEAKER_00]: And we set them this idea for a while. 21:04.061 --> 21:05.222 [SPEAKER_00]: And we started experimenting. 21:05.282 --> 21:06.223 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how we operate. 21:06.283 --> 21:09.785 [SPEAKER_00]: We experiment in-house because we have tons of data, we do funky stuff. 21:09.805 --> 21:12.928 [SPEAKER_00]: And we started developing those methodologies and working with our clients. 21:13.068 --> 21:14.689 [SPEAKER_00]: And we noticed that there's traction. 21:14.729 --> 21:16.210 [SPEAKER_00]: There's the clients are pooling. 21:16.410 --> 21:21.934 [SPEAKER_00]: we started doing some like early work on figuring out if your schedule makes sense or not. 21:22.074 --> 21:26.277 [SPEAKER_00]: And we started doing this by combining different layers on top of your schedule. 21:26.297 --> 21:32.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we've been doing like quantitative loading and resource loading in advance because of our data model, like data is king, right? 21:32.321 --> 21:37.525 [SPEAKER_00]: And we started like finding those insights and showing it to the same super that we set with him on the trailing. 21:37.545 --> 21:39.566 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, hey, you know what, we're not here to judge. 21:39.586 --> 21:41.147 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not here to say if it's good or bad. 21:41.167 --> 21:44.529 [SPEAKER_00]: But look at your like plan production curve going down the project. 21:45.530 --> 21:47.131 [SPEAKER_00]: Now there's no way I'm interested in doing that. 21:47.171 --> 22:10.285 [SPEAKER_00]: That's way too much or way too small or like so that was kind of the Petri dish in which like we figured out that well we have this opportunity in front of us to not only track progress of projects and determine whether you're going sideways or not we can turn the wheeling to something like can we make sure that we produce the most reliable kind of plan can we make sure that all of our supply chain are aligned on something that actually is doable. 22:10.925 --> 22:19.030 [SPEAKER_00]: So that we know what are the precise production benchmark and numbers and everything and once you reach that, it's a matter of asking, okay, are we happy with it? 22:19.591 --> 22:21.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's one thing to have predictability. 22:21.832 --> 22:28.236 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing is to have like everyone coordinated from the owner to the contractor and supply it and say, okay, this is what we can do. 22:28.536 --> 22:29.377 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you happy with this? 22:29.537 --> 22:50.759 [SPEAKER_00]: Does it generate enough field margin, you know, money for everyone or do we need to change something because if we need to change something we can play with the numbers right I can bring more manpower which will cost you more I will work overtime weekends, whatever it is I will pay for the 18 right, but it will cost you or so it becomes like a numbers game and that was like the background that we figured out that wait we have this. 22:51.360 --> 23:12.793 [SPEAKER_00]: all its information, we can start publish those productivity benchmarks and measurements and insights that will tell people based on real numbers, based on real projects like what goes look like, how well can you operate in and where do you stand against this and it gives you opportunity to say, well, am I happy that I'm positioned at the lower percentile? 23:12.853 --> 23:18.737 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're like here in mechanical trade or like you're going back to that kind of health care contract here, like 23:20.658 --> 23:22.799 [SPEAKER_00]: And you check your numbers and you say, well, you know what? 23:22.859 --> 23:28.021 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually positioned the lower percentiles on production rates, on MEP reference. 23:28.061 --> 23:29.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, am I happy with it? 23:29.402 --> 23:30.422 [SPEAKER_00]: What do we do to change it? 23:30.762 --> 23:36.885 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if I'm monitoring like 10 different projects right now, against those numbers, like is this, are everyone aligned? 23:37.025 --> 23:39.606 [SPEAKER_00]: Or do I have a positive or negative outlier? 23:39.866 --> 23:45.408 [SPEAKER_00]: And if someone is operating like really well, we have an opportunity to say, like, okay, what's going on here? 23:45.488 --> 23:46.929 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, guys, what are you doing? 23:47.449 --> 24:10.680 [SPEAKER_00]: differently so well they need to mimic and backward and engineer to my next job and if something is struggling so badly against those benchmarkers then gets those metrics which again it's not started to the project it gives me an opportunity as an executive or like a veteran in my company said like okay I need to lean in I need to figure out what went bad it doesn't have to be necessary that team is operating bad it's just like something doesn't click and now I can tell 24:10.980 --> 24:15.406 [SPEAKER_00]: because it's almost like an x-ray for that project that says, like, I don't care about what you report to me. 24:15.586 --> 24:18.249 [SPEAKER_00]: I can compare it to your peers to your colleagues to the industry. 24:18.349 --> 24:24.036 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was kind of the story from growing from a project base that says we're studying with progress tracking. 24:24.056 --> 24:29.403 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we go like, okay, how do we know what good looks like and whether you're on track to the live-round time? 24:29.603 --> 24:32.306 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we went, think to like, okay, what's a good plan? 24:32.466 --> 24:35.029 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we know if this plan was realistic from the get go? 24:35.209 --> 24:36.551 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was like the background. 24:36.571 --> 24:38.893 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I gave like a long history lesson about this. 24:38.933 --> 24:41.516 [SPEAKER_00]: But that was kind of the evolution of that idea. 24:41.794 --> 24:42.995 [SPEAKER_01]: Well that's the key. 24:43.096 --> 24:44.057 [SPEAKER_01]: It has been an evolution. 24:44.197 --> 25:00.376 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been one that we have not seen enough from the technology providers in the industry because we are the ones who understand how those patterns grow and then how we can leverage data need people like you with that sort of data point interaction. 25:01.277 --> 25:26.368 [SPEAKER_01]: and extrapolation into what it means, working in the background, doing this stuff, and it makes sense that also the problems presented themselves, and what you've gotten to is a point that we've been talking about for a really long time is when you estimate a project, and then it comes out the other side, we really don't know, and this goes from every level, like a lot of owners go through this, a lot of GCs go through this, and then a lot of trades go through it, like we estimated it, but it didn't come out where it came out, sometimes. 25:26.708 --> 25:29.969 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sometimes know, sometimes we're high somewhere and low somewhere. 25:30.069 --> 25:35.610 [SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, we don't analyze where we're great and understand why were we great here? 25:35.710 --> 25:37.390 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it part of the planning process? 25:37.570 --> 25:39.090 [SPEAKER_01]: And where can we improve? 25:39.190 --> 25:49.432 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we always look at this like it feels like in construction, I think, because it resulted in a lot of litigation and a lot of headache and loss. 25:49.932 --> 25:54.453 [SPEAKER_01]: We look at our deficiencies as something to glass over or not look at. 25:54.993 --> 26:00.256 [SPEAKER_01]: No, actually looking at them and determining, wait, was it on realistic planning? 26:00.276 --> 26:09.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that happens, you know, in your supervisor, one, it's, they're using something in their head that I think I feel that those are not good terms to go off of for data. 26:09.882 --> 26:12.944 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like the data says we're, we actually only need to have a floor. 26:12.964 --> 26:14.965 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when we plan, we should plan for that. 26:15.065 --> 26:18.847 [SPEAKER_01]: And so adjusting might be, we're, this is just not realistic. 26:19.027 --> 26:21.069 [SPEAKER_01]: we have to go back to what realistic is. 26:21.169 --> 26:23.251 [SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, then we can tweak levers. 26:23.311 --> 26:23.972 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you want to tweak? 26:23.992 --> 26:27.815 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to get to a buying out of certain scope earlier? 26:27.875 --> 26:29.557 [SPEAKER_01]: So we can get to get to work earlier. 26:29.597 --> 26:41.088 [SPEAKER_01]: So you get a project done sooner, not throw more labor at it and get into the, you know, overtime and burnout and the things that can cause other issues like, hey, and then 26:42.349 --> 26:44.290 [SPEAKER_01]: God forbid, we optimize what we're great at. 26:44.430 --> 26:47.452 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be nice for our businesses to know that. 26:47.632 --> 26:51.195 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and then be able to reverse engineer why are we so good there? 26:51.315 --> 27:01.461 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it, again, the way the project was planned, the way it was coordinated, the way the super understood the reality of trades and trade stacking and you built a great tech plan. 27:01.501 --> 27:05.944 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the tech plan were perfectly, and the group acted as an orchestra. 27:06.164 --> 27:07.305 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome, and the music was perfect. 27:07.405 --> 27:09.767 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, how can we look into that and recreate it? 27:09.887 --> 27:10.507 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah. 27:10.787 --> 27:17.332 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think this is an awesome spot to really open up to the industry and give them this opportunity to talk about giving it to them in two ways. 27:17.372 --> 27:18.873 [SPEAKER_01]: So even if you're not a build. 27:18.893 --> 27:22.215 [SPEAKER_01]: customer, you can come now right and learn a few things read a few things. 27:22.275 --> 27:25.998 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I also think is awesome is they've given us so much in the industry. 27:26.138 --> 27:30.781 [SPEAKER_01]: I know everybody thinks a white paper, a report, et cetera, might be some sort of marketing tool. 27:31.122 --> 27:38.727 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not actually we're at this phase of reeducating and taking what we've learned and what the data is telling us and giving it back. 27:38.947 --> 27:44.829 [SPEAKER_01]: And so talk about how that is for the public, and then maybe there's some secret sauce underneath there too for the customers. 27:44.949 --> 27:45.409 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course. 27:45.449 --> 27:47.690 [SPEAKER_00]: So first of all, like the lab is public heel. 27:47.790 --> 27:52.491 [SPEAKER_00]: Go to the build-off website, go to the build-off slab, and you find like information that we're sharing publicly. 27:52.671 --> 27:55.452 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, everything is one and on a month. 27:56.072 --> 28:00.873 [SPEAKER_00]: two, aggregated, statistically found, we check everything is fact check. 28:00.893 --> 28:05.554 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can never tie anything for specific client, there's no privacy, you're nothing like that. 28:05.834 --> 28:08.035 [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we sharing this two reasons? 28:08.775 --> 28:13.296 [SPEAKER_00]: One, there's always like a two notion kind of first situation, 28:17.157 --> 28:35.402 [SPEAKER_00]: but most of us, like the veterans and the company leaders, we have this thing in our gut that we really want to have industry a bit better, not from a patronizing position, but rather like we know it's a challenge, we know we love our clients, we love industry, we just like one it's a bit better, so we want things to be improved. 28:35.622 --> 28:40.743 [SPEAKER_00]: In the reason that we're sharing to the public is that we think it's too good to sit in it. 28:41.143 --> 29:03.687 [SPEAKER_00]: it's not fair to know those like to find out those insights and just like oh no it's just for like for our clients like for the ones that they pay because it's just so good to sit on it and I feel and we feel that if we share it to the public it opens the door for the entire community to kind of bring it up a notch and to evolve it even more and maybe there is somewhere. 29:04.067 --> 29:09.169 [SPEAKER_00]: a company or like an entrepreneur or like a contract or a super that says, well, you know what? 29:09.269 --> 29:11.450 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually have an idea how to improve it just to be there. 29:11.670 --> 29:21.253 [SPEAKER_00]: If you connect bad little of information or like you don't look at it the right way and we open and we invite everyone else to kind of cooperate with us and work with us. 29:21.813 --> 29:24.994 [SPEAKER_00]: And even initiate their own ideas and we said, okay, let's play together. 29:25.094 --> 29:30.496 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's find out like how can we make the industry just like slightly better using data and information? 29:30.636 --> 29:32.237 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's almost like an invitation. 29:32.297 --> 29:34.898 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is obviously why we're publishing it. 29:34.998 --> 29:38.959 [SPEAKER_00]: It's too good to sit on it and we want everyone to work with us or without those. 29:39.059 --> 29:42.160 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a critical component because commercial success is important, right? 29:42.220 --> 29:48.763 [SPEAKER_01]: I tell people this all the time, like money and I think to speak to you guys and the companies that do well, money is important. 29:49.263 --> 29:51.504 [SPEAKER_01]: Commercial success is important because we don't get to be here. 29:51.604 --> 29:52.684 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't get to do these things. 29:52.724 --> 29:53.864 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't get to exist. 29:54.024 --> 30:04.667 [SPEAKER_01]: But if at our core, our goal, our vision, our mission is to help and to approve and to support and be a great partner, that's great business in the end. 30:04.827 --> 30:13.829 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that human capitalism that we need because it's raising an industry and giving an industry an opportunity and you're giving outside people. 30:13.889 --> 30:17.050 [SPEAKER_01]: You know you're not solving every problem yourselves. 30:17.690 --> 30:21.432 [SPEAKER_01]: and you're allowing these other incredibly smart people to solve real problems too. 30:21.452 --> 30:31.716 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's an interesting piece here too is that this data is signaling real problem, not these pie and the sky solutions looking for problems. 30:31.736 --> 30:31.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Right? 30:31.957 --> 30:37.959 [SPEAKER_01]: We can go all the way back to the beginning of some of the AR and VR and, you know, we were like, hey, this is this great. 30:38.039 --> 30:40.300 [SPEAKER_01]: It's got of a solution looking for a problem, right? 30:40.420 --> 30:41.701 [SPEAKER_00]: I take part with the blinks of that. 30:41.821 --> 30:42.901 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, listen, I just did. 30:42.921 --> 30:47.442 [SPEAKER_01]: If you guys didn't watch it, I was on another show with Stephen Poppy if you want to check it out. 30:47.943 --> 30:50.363 [SPEAKER_01]: And I said it, I had a lot to do with that in that case, too. 30:50.503 --> 30:53.184 [SPEAKER_01]: I was way wrong and way optimistic. 30:53.324 --> 30:54.384 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm willing to admit. 30:54.564 --> 30:57.605 [SPEAKER_01]: And now we also didn't have that data back then, right? 30:57.625 --> 31:03.827 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have those signals to really, we just knew that there was an industry that we love that we wanted to help. 31:04.027 --> 31:05.047 [SPEAKER_01]: And now we're finding these 31:05.847 --> 31:08.530 [SPEAKER_01]: really intelligent ways to help them. 31:08.630 --> 31:09.590 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is awesome. 31:09.751 --> 31:15.976 [SPEAKER_00]: This is really awesome and we share but on the other way around as you said it's all about like commercial success on that part. 31:16.056 --> 31:21.501 [SPEAKER_00]: So our clients, the beauty is that they not only know how is the industry is doing, 31:21.741 --> 31:24.864 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're actually able to compare themselves to those benchmarks. 31:24.884 --> 31:31.150 [SPEAKER_00]: They can measure themselves against each and every publication that we're doing, each and every insight, each and every benchmark, each and every metric. 31:31.250 --> 31:33.151 [SPEAKER_00]: So they know where do they stand? 31:33.352 --> 31:37.255 [SPEAKER_00]: If you read those benchmarks and reports, you can say, like, okay, this is the state of the union. 31:37.455 --> 31:40.558 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're like lines of bell dots, you know precisely where do you stand? 31:40.598 --> 31:46.864 [SPEAKER_00]: How competitive you are, how good you are, and how well each and every project that you have under your portfolio is doing. 31:47.264 --> 31:54.047 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're like ahead of the care when you're ability to standardize, measure, and optimize the year over year and next year you're going to be better. 31:54.127 --> 31:55.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, that makes a ton of sense, right? 31:55.868 --> 32:11.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Since you guys are the ones doing the work to do the research or taking in ideas from how to do the research, and then providing it, you can read the benchmarks into everything, but like you said, we're going to provide a strategic advantage for our customers. 32:11.775 --> 32:17.437 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's based on industry benchmarking and quite frankly, we built it so we can leverage it. 32:17.637 --> 32:21.198 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just a great business and we don't say that enough. 32:21.258 --> 32:22.518 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay. 32:22.658 --> 32:27.620 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a customer of Build.com, I want you to be successful because then I get to keep using you. 32:27.780 --> 32:33.001 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is a huge part of the relationship in the giving back and forth. 32:33.041 --> 32:35.402 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously all the caveats of 32:36.062 --> 32:38.345 [SPEAKER_01]: secure, anonymize everything like that. 32:38.365 --> 32:43.610 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that, you know, that's where you first start because that's the other thing the industry doesn't have as a whole. 32:44.191 --> 32:56.244 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the more companies are doing it and doing it well, we'll have an opportunity at some point to create some true like ubiquitous industry data and benchmarks. 32:56.744 --> 32:59.986 [SPEAKER_01]: and start to really improve the entire industry, because that's the key. 33:00.006 --> 33:00.886 [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna keep building. 33:01.106 --> 33:02.987 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the one thing we're gonna continue to do forever. 33:03.367 --> 33:04.668 [SPEAKER_01]: Look around, that's what we do, right? 33:04.768 --> 33:08.690 [SPEAKER_01]: We take things down, we rebuild them, we improve them, we change. 33:09.270 --> 33:10.591 [SPEAKER_01]: So, absolutely love it. 33:10.811 --> 33:15.993 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you guys wanna check it out, just go to build.com, 4 slash lab and dive into the reports. 33:16.113 --> 33:18.875 [SPEAKER_01]: We could go on forever, but give one outcome. 33:19.295 --> 33:25.521 [SPEAKER_01]: like give one tangible thing before we let you go on where this is really had an impact. 33:25.561 --> 33:29.844 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I can't disclose like specific details as we said, we're keeping privacy. 33:29.964 --> 33:38.252 [SPEAKER_00]: But one thing in hand, so one of the booming industry right now, I don't have to tell you guys, but it's the data centers, like anything data centers right now is amazing. 33:38.272 --> 33:40.073 [SPEAKER_00]: I just like saw a stack yesterday. 33:40.113 --> 33:42.936 [SPEAKER_00]: Like companies are literally doubling their 33:43.376 --> 33:48.459 [SPEAKER_00]: like backlog by just data centers, like creating another similar company by just data center. 33:48.479 --> 33:49.100 [SPEAKER_00]: This is amazing. 33:49.120 --> 33:51.722 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're talking about like the biggest contractors globally. 33:51.902 --> 33:52.722 [SPEAKER_01]: So here's the thing. 33:52.922 --> 33:57.025 [SPEAKER_00]: Knowing data centers is just like you build like a giant shell, right? 33:57.305 --> 34:01.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Where you want to fill it in with wrecks and data holes and everything else. 34:01.608 --> 34:05.090 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all about getting that building operating as fast as possible. 34:05.270 --> 34:07.332 [SPEAKER_00]: And the demand right now is crazy. 34:07.512 --> 34:08.673 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have 34:09.273 --> 34:31.290 [SPEAKER_00]: place on the grid, you have enough water and everything, you build a date center, so the demand is crazy and people are building huge amounts and some of these players are, you know, they haven't been fully active or very, very active in construction from the owner's side, from the gc side, so there's like a new wave of business for people who are like, I want to say new to construction, but new to debt scale. 34:32.171 --> 34:40.514 [SPEAKER_00]: So when we hear scale and huge demand and they think to want to operate quite fast, we look for ways for us to actually measure and standardize it. 34:40.634 --> 34:50.478 [SPEAKER_00]: And one thing that we notice with one of our clients is that when you look at those projects and you strip like the outer walls and the structure and everything, which is like the easy part and you look at those data holes. 34:50.578 --> 34:53.379 [SPEAKER_00]: Those huge holes filling with like data hacks. 34:53.499 --> 34:58.761 [SPEAKER_00]: And we saw that there's like something fascinating, even though that the schedule and the plan 35:00.542 --> 35:07.351 [SPEAKER_00]: When we measured the actual cycle time again, like there's a buzzword for like a metric that you want to measure like cycle time, right? 35:07.452 --> 35:12.438 [SPEAKER_00]: From the beginning of the MEP reference to the finishing of the MEP work on that data hack. 35:12.519 --> 35:15.763 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the fastest data hole on that project was like 154 days. 35:17.305 --> 35:20.246 [SPEAKER_00]: And you had like 10 of those, I think it was 8 or 10 of those. 35:20.486 --> 35:24.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to give it a shot on what was the longest duration for the data hole? 35:24.708 --> 35:29.049 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, similar design, similar team, same kind of scope, everything. 35:29.329 --> 35:31.030 [SPEAKER_00]: What was the fastest way? 35:31.170 --> 35:34.211 [SPEAKER_00]: So which trade was the slowest, which piece was the slowest? 35:34.231 --> 35:37.112 [SPEAKER_00]: The entire MEP kind of roughened for like a data hole. 35:37.232 --> 35:40.773 [SPEAKER_00]: The fastest was 154 days, what was the slowest? 35:41.113 --> 35:42.414 [SPEAKER_00]: And among eight of the best days. 35:42.674 --> 35:44.334 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say it's almost double it or more. 35:44.714 --> 35:46.415 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be like 300 days plus. 35:46.715 --> 36:12.147 [SPEAKER_00]: you know that far you're a bit pessimistic but the slowest was 249 days which is like I'm not that fast but I think it was 95 days there's a same design right same crew same everything and you say what the hell guys it's like four months right and in between it wasn't that like seven out of those were like 154 and just like one of them was the outlet you had the nice spread 36:13.125 --> 36:15.445 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, look at it from an executive point of view, right? 36:15.566 --> 36:18.246 [SPEAKER_00]: Your business is selling data center construction. 36:18.846 --> 36:21.367 [SPEAKER_00]: You're being paid for the activation, obviously. 36:21.387 --> 36:22.727 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to run fast to activate. 36:22.967 --> 36:24.027 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you price your job? 36:24.207 --> 36:25.648 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how do you plan it? 36:26.028 --> 36:29.748 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you planning it based on 154, based on the 249? 36:29.888 --> 36:32.929 [SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't end up there because you go down and not, right? 36:32.949 --> 36:37.110 [SPEAKER_00]: You pop up the hood and say, okay, let's break it down to the manufacturing facility like elements. 36:37.830 --> 37:03.380 [SPEAKER_00]: How many linear feet off shield water pipe work and cable trades and bus bars and air supply and everything and I'll say then you break down the quantity say okay how many linear feet of bus bar like is my crew installing on a weekly basis how many did you install over there and there and there and what was like the kind of the situation on side that led them what was the supply numbers was everything and almost like you break it down to the fundamental mechanics and mathematics of it and say okay now. 37:04.000 --> 37:05.622 [SPEAKER_00]: let's go back to what did we plan? 37:05.842 --> 37:08.465 [SPEAKER_00]: What did we plan from a supply from a manpower from everything? 37:08.605 --> 37:11.809 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you kind of you're able to say what's my baseline? 37:12.109 --> 37:15.033 [SPEAKER_00]: What's my kind of benchmark for my next job? 37:15.153 --> 37:17.856 [SPEAKER_00]: And we can recommend those guys and say like, hey, you know what? 37:18.216 --> 37:19.197 [SPEAKER_00]: When we look at the curve, 37:19.758 --> 37:21.219 [SPEAKER_00]: This is like your sweet spot. 37:21.239 --> 37:25.061 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where predictability is a certain number that you can actually stand against. 37:25.302 --> 37:29.924 [SPEAKER_00]: So whenever they plan the next five or 10 because those companies, they don't just build one. 37:30.085 --> 37:31.465 [SPEAKER_00]: They have a huge backlog. 37:31.566 --> 37:35.268 [SPEAKER_00]: So they want to be that company that is well known for that. 37:35.368 --> 37:43.513 [SPEAKER_00]: So what you're able to say is like, I want to have like the best predictability and best performance on my cycle time on my NEP reference for data haul. 37:43.693 --> 37:47.756 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to hold you on your tenders on everything that you have as a supply. 37:49.697 --> 37:57.005 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to need to say, how are you going to be able to pull down those numbers for linear feet of bus for? 37:57.165 --> 37:57.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Explain to me your plan. 37:58.086 --> 38:03.232 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't just provide me a schedule and a drawing and say, OK, yeah, I'll get done. 38:03.352 --> 38:10.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Whenever you need to explain your step in a very, very detailed manner, well, if it's other than you need to be able to come up with, OK, how do I actually pull this off? 38:11.372 --> 38:12.333 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I well prepare? 38:12.473 --> 38:13.834 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I put it in my schedule? 38:14.034 --> 38:15.335 [SPEAKER_00]: My resource plan, right? 38:15.495 --> 38:34.850 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that whenever we got to this point, all of a sudden, they like the clients started saying, okay, I'm gonna work with my schedulers to make sure that we plan precisely according to that sequence and according to that break time to make sure that my plan, my schedule, is actually planned this way against those benchmarks. 38:34.930 --> 38:45.904 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to make sure that everything in my 3D model has those precise attributes that build-ups can poorly know that to measure this, and they shift that their minds are seem to like, okay, we need to hit a certain number, right? 38:45.944 --> 38:50.309 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we have it targeting mine, it's not only, okay, we need to do it best that we can go. 38:50.830 --> 38:50.990 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 38:51.871 --> 38:52.872 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very, very precise. 38:53.232 --> 38:56.954 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that shift and I think that we're still the very early on in the game. 38:57.374 --> 38:58.915 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is like a really good example. 38:58.935 --> 39:01.276 [SPEAKER_00]: Whenever you go into like, okay, let's measure everything. 39:01.296 --> 39:03.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's break it down to the kind of fundamental pieces. 39:04.218 --> 39:05.098 [SPEAKER_00]: It changes your mindset. 39:05.379 --> 39:10.882 [SPEAKER_01]: It really what you're doing is you're getting people to think through. 39:11.602 --> 39:24.406 [SPEAKER_01]: the outcome, not the overall outcome, but all the parts and pieces that it takes to get to that outcome and you're exposing it so that you can plan to it and understand it. 39:24.546 --> 39:30.368 [SPEAKER_01]: And we were talking about this just kind of funny before on like me doing manual show notes and whatnot. 39:30.428 --> 39:32.989 [SPEAKER_01]: And I say, hey, this gets me ready for you. 39:33.229 --> 39:36.970 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's sort of, I said, it's like getting to know a project first, this is what, 39:37.670 --> 39:53.057 [SPEAKER_01]: we want out of AI and other tools is to allow us the time and the capability to dig into projects and learn them, understand them, break them down and know them better. 39:53.217 --> 40:02.561 [SPEAKER_01]: If we have all of that and we can plan better, we have more visibility, we can have better outcomes or at least we can have more realistic and measure against them. 40:02.601 --> 40:02.661 [SPEAKER_01]: And 40:02.761 --> 40:08.285 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we've been doing for so many years, as we plan up here, but all this stuff down here, well, it'll fall over here. 40:08.325 --> 40:09.927 [SPEAKER_01]: No, we can't do that anymore. 40:09.947 --> 40:22.737 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially because when you're talking about that group in the data center hyperscaler world, getting to commissioning, there is a, it is there goal, and it can be very painful if you don't get there when you're supposed to. 40:23.157 --> 40:34.862 [SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes you're telling them, hey, listen, I know you said here, but like you said, unless we add some of these things and the cost goes up for you, there's no way we can do it at that cost level. 40:35.242 --> 40:39.224 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's realistically when we can deliver and that puts you in a better position. 40:39.664 --> 40:40.305 [SPEAKER_01]: Or, hey, look, 40:41.045 --> 40:42.086 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll adjust, right? 40:42.186 --> 40:47.530 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll make the changes in the tweets you want based on the outcome you want, but it's going to cost you. 40:47.771 --> 40:50.152 [SPEAKER_01]: Or we're going to have to buy scopes out earlier. 40:50.213 --> 40:51.193 [SPEAKER_01]: Do whatever we have to do. 40:51.534 --> 40:53.335 [SPEAKER_01]: So, great work, man. 40:54.216 --> 40:54.716 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 40:55.157 --> 40:56.638 [SPEAKER_01]: That is an awesome real world. 40:56.698 --> 41:00.421 [SPEAKER_01]: I love when we go all the way from here to all the way to tangible. 41:00.501 --> 41:04.344 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we've told people where to go check it out, but where can people go connect with you? 41:04.724 --> 41:06.786 [SPEAKER_01]: Learn more about you, learn what's going on out there. 41:06.946 --> 41:17.629 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, so first of all, LinkedIn, like anything else just shoot me like a message, shoot me an email, whatever it is, get my attention and anyone in build-outs, I want to say we're open to everything. 41:18.089 --> 41:20.729 [SPEAKER_00]: We hope to kind of partner with smart people. 41:20.909 --> 41:26.511 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have an idea, if you have an assumption, if you have anything, shoot us a message, we're always happy to talk. 41:26.851 --> 41:27.651 [SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome. 41:27.731 --> 41:28.651 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we need. 41:28.771 --> 41:33.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Amir, it's been too long, but I'm glad we got you on and got to talk about what you're up to. 41:37.442 --> 41:38.444 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. 41:38.624 --> 41:50.648 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for the conversation today and thank you for tuning in the day to geek out for our interview with a mere Burman to read all our new stories learn more about our guests and listen to the show visit the contentcrew.com. 41:50.908 --> 41:52.632 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the contentcrew signing out. 41:52.792 --> 41:56.479 [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, enjoy the ride and geek out.