WEBVTT 00:02.211 --> 00:04.752 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everyone, welcome to the Christian Parenting Podcast. 00:05.012 --> 00:06.272 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Steph Thirling. 00:06.332 --> 00:08.453 [SPEAKER_01]: I am so glad that you are with me today. 00:08.473 --> 00:15.695 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have something on your to-do list that you have been avoiding for days or weeks or months or maybe even longer? 00:16.295 --> 00:24.358 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's making an appointment, returning something, tackling a house project, having a hard conversation or like finally starting that thing you keep saying that you want to do. 00:25.298 --> 00:32.703 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, I'm talking with Dana K. White, author-of-procrastinators get stuff done, and as a fellow procrastinator, I loved this conversation. 00:33.483 --> 00:42.449 [SPEAKER_01]: Dana explains why procrastination often has much less to do with laziness and much more to do with overwhelm, decision fatigue, and even perfectionism. 00:42.969 --> 00:49.772 [SPEAKER_01]: She gives us a really simple process for getting unstuck without creating another giant plan that we probably will procrastinate on too. 00:50.492 --> 01:02.517 [SPEAKER_01]: We also talk about our different commitment thresholds, why comparing ourselves to people who seem capable of doing everything is so unhelpful and how we can help our kids who tend to procrastinate without labeling them as lazy. 01:03.157 --> 01:09.060 [SPEAKER_01]: This conversation is practical, encouraging, and honestly made me understand my own brain a little better, and I think that it will do the same. 01:09.100 --> 01:09.540 [SPEAKER_01]: So enjoy! 01:17.277 --> 01:17.877 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Dana. 01:17.937 --> 01:19.498 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Christian parenting podcast. 01:19.718 --> 01:20.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me on. 01:20.839 --> 01:21.119 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:21.279 --> 01:25.922 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really excited about this conversation, but before we dive in, I want to get to know you a little bit first. 01:26.422 --> 01:30.925 [SPEAKER_01]: And for my listeners to get to know you so tell us about you, who are you? 01:31.265 --> 01:31.945 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you do? 01:32.065 --> 01:34.947 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us what your family, tell us about all the things that are important to you. 01:35.147 --> 01:35.447 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:35.527 --> 01:36.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, here goes. 01:37.931 --> 01:44.994 [SPEAKER_00]: I, um, Dana Kay White and I have been decluttering publicly on the internet for about 17 years. 01:45.054 --> 01:53.699 [SPEAKER_00]: I started not knowing what I was doing and not teaching anything, but then I ended up teaching, eventually, when people were like, please, my brain works the way yours does. 01:53.739 --> 01:54.760 [SPEAKER_00]: Please do just how to do that. 01:54.820 --> 01:57.882 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's been my main career, but I have, 01:58.802 --> 02:23.625 [SPEAKER_00]: shifted into teaching anti procrastination strategies because I realized I've actually been teaching how to be procrastination all along because, you know, when somebody faces an overwhelming pile of clutter, they fill overwhelmed and they shut down and so I teach people how to work through that and continue making progress, recognize the thought processes that backfire and so now I'm teaching how to be prepared. 02:24.365 --> 02:30.009 [SPEAKER_00]: But I have three kids, they're all in their 20s now, my daughter, my youngest is 20, and so it's kind of easier to say. 02:30.089 --> 02:33.070 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I have a thing before it was like, well, I have some teenagers in it. 02:33.090 --> 02:34.771 [SPEAKER_00]: My kids are all in their 20s. 02:35.532 --> 02:39.734 [SPEAKER_00]: They were 35 and 7 when I started this, what I do. 02:39.754 --> 02:43.736 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and my husband and I are empty nesters now, and really enjoying it. 02:43.896 --> 02:44.617 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so fun. 02:45.017 --> 03:01.746 [SPEAKER_00]: are they good at decluttering if they were through five and seven they watched do this they have so so my story is that this is not natural to me so they they didn't get the natural jeans you know because i passed down by jeans of it being a struggle but yeah they are really good at being able to let things 03:02.226 --> 03:10.871 [SPEAKER_00]: go because they have observed me transforming and being willing to let things go that I once was not willing to let go of. 03:10.971 --> 03:21.277 [SPEAKER_00]: So I saw that actually pretty quickly in my kids after I started changing our home through decluttering my own things, everybody's perspective on stuff started to shift. 03:21.457 --> 03:27.981 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love that you said that in that way because it wasn't, it's not like you're like, oh, well, I am this way. 03:28.041 --> 03:32.404 [SPEAKER_01]: And so my kids naturally learned because I'm, is like, they learned from what you struggled through. 03:32.624 --> 03:34.245 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just by watching and observing. 03:34.265 --> 03:40.489 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's just a really, I think we know that as parents, but we put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect and do it all right. 03:40.609 --> 03:45.111 [SPEAKER_01]: So just the reminder that your kids learned by watching you learn is so good. 03:45.311 --> 03:47.653 [SPEAKER_00]: I, in hindsight, I can say it. 03:47.813 --> 03:50.515 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in the moment, it was hard. 03:51.375 --> 03:55.597 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really hard because, you know, I didn't want to be imperfect. 03:55.777 --> 04:17.565 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be the perfect example for my kids, but now looking back, I see that they're going to go through their own struggles in life and it's so much more valuable for them to see reality and for them to see actual struggle for them to see me continue and keep going even when I feel like I believe that has a lot more value than trying to be perfect. 04:21.488 --> 04:32.701 [SPEAKER_01]: right present is perfect which is just exhausting yeah okay well we are talking about procrastination today and I told you a little bit for us are recording this topic it's home because I am a procrastinator 04:33.397 --> 04:34.378 [SPEAKER_01]: And so is my husband. 04:34.458 --> 04:37.439 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is like, we have a house full of personality. 04:37.980 --> 04:40.221 [SPEAKER_01]: And so a lot of what you're a resonated with me. 04:40.541 --> 04:43.223 [SPEAKER_01]: And it'd be like, it's like the why that all clicked a little bit. 04:43.463 --> 04:44.864 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, this all makes sense. 04:44.984 --> 04:48.746 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess I think a lot of people are here for procrastination and they just think lazy. 04:48.826 --> 04:52.628 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I even default time, like I'm just being lazy, just being lazy. 04:52.688 --> 04:54.609 [SPEAKER_01]: But what do you think? 04:54.830 --> 04:57.891 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do we think we misunderstand people who procrastinate? 04:58.071 --> 05:00.233 [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm gonna guess something about you, okay? 05:01.573 --> 05:02.614 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait. 05:02.874 --> 05:16.729 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing that there are areas of your life where you do not procrastinate, where you are very driven and very dependable and certain things where maybe someone else would look at you and go, how do you do it all? 05:16.769 --> 05:18.531 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you do these things? 05:18.571 --> 05:22.695 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the fact that you have a podcast is a dream of so many people, right? 05:22.775 --> 05:23.997 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're doing it. 05:24.237 --> 05:24.657 [SPEAKER_00]: right now. 05:24.717 --> 05:38.622 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's probably people who would look at you and say, well, you're not a procrastinator, but you consider yourself one because there are things that you aren't doing that you either need to do or desperately want to do. 05:39.002 --> 05:46.104 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it is rarely I believe the people who are going to read a book about procrastination are not lazy. 05:46.825 --> 05:47.425 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's fair. 05:48.565 --> 05:52.208 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's just, that's just not the, you know, I'm not saying that laziness isn't a thing. 05:52.248 --> 06:05.698 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that a lot of times what's interpreted as laziness isn't actually I believe that emotional exhaustion from all the decisions that we're having to make about so many different things. 06:05.898 --> 06:10.862 [SPEAKER_00]: Make us imagine that this thing we want to do or have to do is so huge. 06:11.122 --> 06:28.977 [SPEAKER_00]: and is going to require so many decisions to be made and I don't have the emotional energy right now to make those decisions and that emotional exhaustion feels like maybe it's laziness, but we need to identify it as emotional exhaustion that is a result of imagining that we're going to have to make so many decisions. 06:29.238 --> 06:29.418 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 06:29.758 --> 06:31.678 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, first of all, I feel like you're right. 06:31.839 --> 06:34.319 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who's going to read a book about procrastination is not lazy. 06:34.359 --> 06:37.460 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like anyone who's listening that feels like they're a bad parent. 06:37.480 --> 06:40.461 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're listening to a parenting podcast, you're not a bad parent. 06:40.921 --> 06:41.401 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 06:41.701 --> 06:44.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's just certain things that are left to work on. 06:44.261 --> 06:45.482 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like that. 06:45.622 --> 06:47.422 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good call out right there. 06:47.502 --> 06:48.882 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's not laziness. 06:48.922 --> 06:52.923 [SPEAKER_01]: But let's talk about that emotional energy a little bit because you talk about that a lot. 06:52.943 --> 06:54.564 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, conserving emotional energy. 06:55.064 --> 06:56.864 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that idea because it is so true. 06:59.765 --> 07:00.707 [SPEAKER_01]: like so much time. 07:01.027 --> 07:05.233 [SPEAKER_01]: It's embarrassing how much time I think about making an appointment before I actually make the appointment. 07:05.634 --> 07:08.818 [SPEAKER_01]: Or just make my house when making the appointment because it's just the thing I'm really doing. 07:09.018 --> 07:09.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 07:09.539 --> 07:09.639 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:09.659 --> 07:11.382 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, let's talk about that. 07:11.582 --> 07:12.303 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do we do that? 07:12.343 --> 07:15.728 [SPEAKER_00]: And then how do you conserve emotional energy, like practically? 07:15.908 --> 07:24.801 [SPEAKER_00]: So, conserving emotional energy is identifying the things that don't require decisions as actually easy, okay? 07:24.901 --> 07:30.129 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I know that when I just say, hey, do the easy stuff first, which is the second step of my process, right? 07:30.149 --> 07:31.110 [SPEAKER_00]: Like do the easy stuff. 07:31.491 --> 07:36.156 [SPEAKER_00]: When people hear that, they think whatever I don't mind doing. 07:36.496 --> 07:36.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 07:36.657 --> 07:39.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you, you mind making that phone call. 07:39.460 --> 07:41.001 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you do not want to make it. 07:41.081 --> 07:42.483 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it feels really hard. 07:42.863 --> 07:46.267 [SPEAKER_00]: But when we reframe easy as decision-free. 07:46.307 --> 07:50.051 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I actually know that I have to do this thing. 07:50.952 --> 07:52.894 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not actually a decision. 07:53.835 --> 07:58.900 [SPEAKER_00]: there because if you're going to have the appointment, you're going to have to make the phone call or go online. 07:59.080 --> 07:59.341 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 07:59.361 --> 08:02.144 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will pick a provider if I can schedule on my abs. 08:02.204 --> 08:03.485 [SPEAKER_00]: So lately you will. 08:03.645 --> 08:04.606 [SPEAKER_00]: I completely agree. 08:05.067 --> 08:08.770 [SPEAKER_00]: But but reframing that as okay, this is not actually decision. 08:08.810 --> 08:11.573 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just something that I dread doing. 08:11.613 --> 08:16.498 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you say the emotional energy comes from decision making, then 08:17.399 --> 08:21.921 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps me reframe that and say, okay, this is actually an easy thing. 08:21.982 --> 08:23.582 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to do it, but it's easy. 08:23.602 --> 08:25.163 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we can't even go back from there. 08:25.483 --> 08:39.811 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we go with the, you know, my first step is to look and count looking as legitimate progress that might mean I have been dreading this and I've been, I'm going to go to the website and just see see if it's possible to schedule online. 08:40.131 --> 08:57.627 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm going to know, I'm dreading the fact that I probably won't be able to because I think I heard that or I think I looked at it five years ago or whatever, but I'm like, I'm just going to see because then I'm taking action on this thing that I've been dreading, but I'm taking it with zero commitment because I'm not saying, I'm going to go make that appointment that I've been putting off. 08:57.667 --> 09:03.412 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying, I am going to count it as progress to get on that doctor's website and just see if there's an option. 09:03.772 --> 09:14.719 [SPEAKER_00]: And then once I've done that, then I go to the next, you know, look, and I'm like, well, I'm going to look at my calendar and I'm going to see when I have, you know, available or not available. 09:14.739 --> 09:15.199 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 09:15.299 --> 09:16.880 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to look up the phone number. 09:17.080 --> 09:17.300 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 09:17.381 --> 09:23.845 [SPEAKER_00]: And I break it down into these very small, completable tasks that I know have to be done to do the thing. 09:24.165 --> 09:29.228 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I've already started making some progress before I've gotten to the thing that I do know I have to do. 09:29.848 --> 09:32.490 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's technically easy, even though it feels really hard. 09:32.650 --> 09:37.353 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so what are breakdown like the next steps after that that you kind of go through? 09:37.634 --> 09:41.376 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think it's really important to say that step four is to make a plan. 09:41.716 --> 09:42.657 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not step one. 09:42.897 --> 09:46.560 [SPEAKER_00]: We always feel like, like you said, I think so hard before I do the thing. 09:46.580 --> 09:51.203 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it feels like it's overwhelming to me, therefore it needs a big plan. 09:51.543 --> 09:57.748 [SPEAKER_00]: But thinking that it needs a big plan when I actually haven't gotten started at all, yet, is actually procrastination. 09:59.765 --> 10:02.626 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first three steps are to look with no commitment. 10:02.686 --> 10:12.412 [SPEAKER_00]: This is literally all I'm going to do, and I'm going to count it as I've done the first thing, just by looking at my situation, what the opportunities are, whatever it is, face the thing. 10:12.632 --> 10:16.674 [SPEAKER_00]: And that removes the unknown, and I've already gotten started, because I'm counting that as success. 10:16.734 --> 10:26.480 [SPEAKER_00]: And looking at the big overwhelming problem, from a perspective of success, is a lot different from spinning out in that procrastination, you know, my love there. 10:26.980 --> 10:46.564 [SPEAKER_00]: So step two then is to do do what I already know to do like I know that if I was ever going to get this phone call made I would have to know the phone number okay I'm going to look that up and I'm going to count that as success okay instead of just lumping it in with the thing I know that if I'm going to call I'm going to need to have looked at my calendar so I'm going to go ahead and do that. 10:46.764 --> 10:52.466 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that if I'm ever gonna make this phone call, I am going to have to, I don't know, find my phone. 10:52.646 --> 11:00.809 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, we really break it down to these smaller things that I already know I have to do this, but sometimes I'm just lumping that in with the big thing. 11:01.129 --> 11:02.190 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I've already done that. 11:02.230 --> 11:05.111 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the third step is non-committal experimentation. 11:05.131 --> 11:06.952 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm trying to think how that would be in this. 11:08.462 --> 11:10.842 [SPEAKER_00]: You can go off of this example too, that's fine. 11:10.882 --> 11:11.463 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, sure. 11:12.103 --> 11:17.884 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, like so non-committal experimentation, that is, that is actually key for so many people. 11:17.944 --> 11:32.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the people that I've been talking to who've read the book and I've spoken about this are like something about this idea of it being a way to break procrastination to non-committally experiment, meaning I don't have to know what I'm doing. 11:32.286 --> 11:35.167 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to know the perfect thing to say on the phone. 11:35.347 --> 11:44.535 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to know which number I'm gonna push of which the options may have recently changed or whatever, you know, like that thing that they, you know, I don't have to know what I'm doing. 11:45.016 --> 11:48.158 [SPEAKER_00]: I am literally going into this saying, I may never do it this way again. 11:48.779 --> 11:50.180 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't already know what to do. 11:50.500 --> 12:01.950 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying this is the right way, but I am literally going to say, I am gonna non-commitally experiment so that I learn, you know, and however that applies to your unique situation, is different. 12:02.671 --> 12:08.677 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a way to break it down because otherwise we get into that spin-out of, I hate making the phone call. 12:09.017 --> 12:10.098 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate making the phone call. 12:10.278 --> 12:11.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I just dread it so much. 12:11.599 --> 12:19.326 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, when we start to break it down like this, then you start to figure out what it is that's stopping you and what you can kind of eliminate. 12:19.746 --> 12:25.572 [SPEAKER_00]: And then by step four, when you make a plan, you're already down the road to word this task. 12:25.912 --> 12:31.213 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, whether it's starting a business, whether it's starting a podcast, whether it's, you know, you're already down the road. 12:31.293 --> 12:36.954 [SPEAKER_00]: And this, the problem itself that's been overwhelming you is smaller because you've already done things. 12:37.274 --> 12:38.915 [SPEAKER_00]: You've already made progress on it. 12:39.335 --> 12:47.917 [SPEAKER_00]: And you understand it so much more because of being in it and you've non-committally experimented and found out some things that do work, and some things that don't work. 12:48.057 --> 12:53.118 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it's just a good reminder that every single little win matters. 12:53.678 --> 12:55.399 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we're really good at telling our kids that. 12:55.439 --> 12:57.820 [SPEAKER_00]: Like just do the next right thing, the next small step. 12:57.840 --> 13:00.161 [SPEAKER_01]: But when it comes to us, it's a little easier to forget. 13:00.201 --> 13:02.822 [SPEAKER_01]: That like tiny steps will get you there. 13:02.902 --> 13:04.523 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to take a giant leap. 13:04.883 --> 13:07.604 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that a lot of people get the big idea. 13:07.724 --> 13:08.964 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm going to start a podcast. 13:09.064 --> 13:11.145 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm going to go buy the software. 13:11.545 --> 13:13.306 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make a schedule. 13:13.366 --> 13:14.647 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to go do all these things. 13:14.707 --> 13:19.249 [SPEAKER_01]: And that feels so overwhelming instead of like doing the one next thing. 13:19.369 --> 13:22.210 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly like you're saying is just like count everything as a win. 13:22.390 --> 13:28.245 [SPEAKER_00]: which is the reason that I find it so valuable for myself to have a process. 13:29.420 --> 13:34.943 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it gives me a framework for knowing what the next thing is. 13:34.983 --> 13:36.905 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know in my head just do the next thing. 13:37.245 --> 13:39.426 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, but there's so many things. 13:39.766 --> 13:42.388 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yes, there's so many things and it's so big. 13:42.428 --> 13:47.451 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, I, what if I don't know what all the things are, what if, what if I do something and it wasn't the next thing? 13:47.471 --> 13:50.773 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I've skipped over something that, you know, we like, we just start to spin out on those things. 13:51.153 --> 13:54.755 [SPEAKER_00]: So having a process of, okay, the first next thing, 13:55.135 --> 13:57.516 [SPEAKER_00]: is to open your eyes and look at the situation. 13:57.536 --> 14:02.839 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I teach decluttering, that's a strategy that's really helpful for people. 14:03.079 --> 14:05.941 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, my first step in decluttering is to look for trash. 14:06.341 --> 14:07.582 [SPEAKER_00]: And people are like, there's no trash. 14:07.602 --> 14:16.166 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, but the step is to look and that gets you to open up that cabinet that overwhelms you and actually face it. 14:16.527 --> 14:20.229 [SPEAKER_00]: And something happens in our brains when we look at what's in there, 14:20.989 --> 14:42.638 [SPEAKER_00]: This space that we've been avoiding forever and that we're scared is going to be full of hard decisions and we look and we go well that right I know what to do with that that and that and that and then all the sudden it's not quite such a daunting problem anymore but we've counted looking as actually getting started and so you keep moving through the process knowing okay what how do I identify the next right thing to do yeah. 14:42.758 --> 14:43.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:43.379 --> 14:49.707 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that part of procrastination is actually perfectionism or like striving for perfectionism? 14:49.887 --> 14:50.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 14:50.528 --> 14:51.669 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure. 14:51.769 --> 14:59.179 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I, and it's that I don't, I don't want to do it now because what if I don't have full understanding? 15:00.809 --> 15:05.092 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I don't fully know the right way to do this? 15:05.573 --> 15:09.857 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm going to wait hoping that I will learn more. 15:10.057 --> 15:13.220 [SPEAKER_00]: Future me is going to have it so much more together than right now me does. 15:13.400 --> 15:14.801 [SPEAKER_00]: And so she'll know what to do, right? 15:15.121 --> 15:17.523 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we put it off in the meantime. 15:17.563 --> 15:21.207 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know for my own life as a born procrastinator. 15:21.527 --> 15:25.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I've missed opportunities while I was waiting to know how to do it perfectly. 15:26.291 --> 15:47.924 [SPEAKER_00]: and so I wasn't doing anything where if we can use these lowest points of entry as actual ways to get started and count them as success, then we learned the things that we were waiting until we understood it were actively learning those things as we're getting started, but we're doing it from a perspective of listen, I'm just doing the non-committal experimentation at this point. 15:48.185 --> 15:52.127 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I love that idea, non-committal experimentation because it's like 15:55.509 --> 15:56.430 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. 15:56.530 --> 16:04.455 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the only way to do most things in life, you know, like fake it till you make it or whatever, it is that we like to say, like those people have been saying that forever for a reason. 16:05.015 --> 16:05.215 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 16:05.596 --> 16:05.796 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 16:05.896 --> 16:06.056 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 16:06.416 --> 16:13.020 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking about parents right now listening and thinking like, there are so many things that are competing for our attention, and we're just so busy. 16:13.301 --> 16:19.945 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so hard to keep track of everything, and you know, we all know what it's like, because we're all parents listening to this for the most part. 16:20.285 --> 16:21.626 [SPEAKER_01]: How can you tell the difference between 16:23.127 --> 16:29.976 [SPEAKER_01]: and simply being overwhelmed or like legitimately having just too much for one person to reasonably accomplish. 16:30.176 --> 16:30.337 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:30.897 --> 16:33.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you talking about for yourself or for with your kids? 16:33.701 --> 16:35.584 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to, yeah, for yourself is a parent. 16:35.844 --> 16:36.004 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 16:36.024 --> 16:36.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:37.506 --> 16:39.909 [SPEAKER_00]: So I talk about your commitment threshold. 16:41.394 --> 16:48.878 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, everything that I teach for procrastinating, the vast majority of it has come from what I've learned from decluttering. 16:49.218 --> 17:01.164 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that I teach with decluttering that I realized for myself was when I started, when I was completely overwhelmed in my home, I thought that the goal was I needed to get more organized, right? 17:01.184 --> 17:05.386 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I needed to be like my friend, be like my friend who could also, 17:10.648 --> 17:29.807 [SPEAKER_00]: So like she I was like I need to do better when I started decluttering my house I got to this point where I realized I just thought one day I can handle this like I can do this and that's when I realized We have different clutter thresholds meaning she can handle more stuff. 17:29.827 --> 17:32.890 [SPEAKER_00]: I was bringing stuff in not knowing I couldn't handle 17:33.883 --> 17:34.743 [SPEAKER_00]: that amount of stuff. 17:34.843 --> 17:35.544 [SPEAKER_00]: We're different. 17:35.604 --> 17:38.204 [SPEAKER_00]: My mother has a clutter threshold that's much higher than mine. 17:38.524 --> 17:40.805 [SPEAKER_00]: She can have lots of stuff for lots of situations. 17:41.085 --> 17:42.606 [SPEAKER_00]: She can keep it all under control. 17:43.166 --> 17:50.008 [SPEAKER_00]: I inherited thought process that you need to have everything you could ever need for any situation that will ever happen. 17:50.048 --> 17:52.688 [SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't inherit her ability to keep it under control. 17:52.728 --> 17:54.609 [SPEAKER_00]: And I realized, okay, there's nothing wrong with that. 17:54.949 --> 17:57.250 [SPEAKER_00]: It is literally just that I need to have less stuff. 17:57.610 --> 18:00.331 [SPEAKER_00]: And when I had less stuff, I could handle it. 18:00.591 --> 18:03.672 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the same thing is true for your commitment threshold. 18:04.032 --> 18:08.814 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's hard when you look at someone else who's doing all these things. 18:09.114 --> 18:12.755 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I know what the internet people love to say stuff like, oh, they've got help. 18:12.875 --> 18:14.316 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not happy. 18:14.416 --> 18:15.416 [SPEAKER_00]: She must be miserable. 18:15.736 --> 18:19.798 [SPEAKER_00]: That may or may not be true because she may have a higher commitment threshold. 18:20.098 --> 18:21.860 [SPEAKER_00]: where she's able to do those things. 18:22.261 --> 18:23.602 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's perfectly fine. 18:23.943 --> 18:34.336 [SPEAKER_00]: But what matters is myself and I go, okay, I can't handle all of these commitments or ideas or things that I would like to do. 18:34.356 --> 18:36.819 [SPEAKER_00]: And instead, I need to let go. 18:37.980 --> 18:44.949 [SPEAKER_00]: of the least important or the least desired until I get to the point where I can handle what I have. 18:45.290 --> 18:53.300 [SPEAKER_00]: And the best way to decide which ones to actually, you know, keep versus which ones to let go, is to go ahead and start and try them. 18:56.328 --> 19:15.909 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how many times have I personally, and maybe this isn't the case for you, but, you know, for me, like I've committed to something or gathered something or whatever and thinking I'm going to love this and then I get into it and I go, oh my goodness, you know, like this is not so if I gathered a bunch of ideas or things that I'm going to do the 19:16.750 --> 19:18.472 [SPEAKER_00]: and I don't know which ones to let go of. 19:18.632 --> 19:24.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Going ahead and starting on the ones I'm pretty sure I'm going to like the most or is it going to be the most necessary? 19:24.177 --> 19:30.923 [SPEAKER_00]: Is the best way for me to see oh yeah actually that's not what I thought it was and I'm going to let that go and that's an easy thing to let go. 19:31.263 --> 19:38.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Until I reach this commitment threshold where I'm like okay I can function with this level of numbers of commitments in my life. 19:38.570 --> 19:41.111 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's so interesting. 19:41.171 --> 19:43.232 [SPEAKER_01]: And I hadn't really thought about it in that way. 19:43.732 --> 19:47.033 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do, I even think about like two of my best friends in the three of us. 19:47.093 --> 19:49.254 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, one of them, she can just, it is amazing. 19:49.294 --> 19:50.635 [SPEAKER_01]: The amount of things she can commit to. 19:50.755 --> 19:52.115 [SPEAKER_01]: And she does not procrastinate. 19:52.155 --> 19:54.016 [SPEAKER_01]: She just does the things. 19:54.196 --> 19:56.217 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that is just the way that God made her. 19:56.557 --> 19:57.637 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm somewhere in the middle. 19:57.657 --> 20:01.839 [SPEAKER_01]: And then my other friend, he has what I feel like, aren't that many commitments and she gets super overwhelmed. 20:01.899 --> 20:04.840 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she starts procrastinating or she starts dropping the ball 20:05.740 --> 20:07.340 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just we all have different thresholds. 20:07.440 --> 20:13.502 [SPEAKER_01]: We do and there's nothing but it's so easy to compare yourself very Next we should all be like our friend who can do that. 20:13.862 --> 20:28.245 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is that's not right one of the main messages that I Teach in everything that I teach and in this book with procrastination is it is not effective to do what we naturally want to do Which is like how can I be like her? 20:28.625 --> 20:29.725 [SPEAKER_00]: That just doesn't work. 20:30.165 --> 20:48.130 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, I need to accept how my brain works and knowing that I have a commitment threshold is part of that acceptance that then helps me go, how does my brain work and what, that lets me accept myself and then embrace the fact that I can't do as much as her and that is okay. 20:48.590 --> 20:55.992 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's yes, there's something about that self-acceptance and saying I'm gonna work with my brain instead of against it that is really powerful 20:58.173 --> 21:02.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that just takes so much time and self work and we're not always wanting to do that. 21:02.758 --> 21:08.885 [SPEAKER_01]: But we do have to for a not even just procrastination, but like all parts of parenting and just maturing in life, you know, right. 21:09.165 --> 21:14.231 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and the the active doing of the thing that you really want to do or need to do. 21:14.851 --> 21:34.227 [SPEAKER_00]: Using the process is generally the thing that will kind of shift that all in your brain to actually be able to do the thing instead of because it's another procrastination thing to think I've got to figure it out and me out before I actually do anything But the best way to figure it out and to figure me out is to go ahead and get started and experience that 21:34.943 --> 21:37.083 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and those tiny steps, for sure. 21:37.664 --> 21:57.548 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so let's talk about parenting form in and again, like how if we have kids who procrastinate, how do we help them kind of without labeling them, you know, like, I think it's it's, we're easy, it is easy to label our kids as procrastinators or lazy or get frustrated with them when they're not doing their homework. 21:57.808 --> 22:01.070 [SPEAKER_01]: or you ask them to put their shoes away 1500 times. 22:01.130 --> 22:10.715 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like things that are normal kid things and things that are procrastinating, like how do we help our kids who tend to procrastinate without labeling them and making sure they don't carry those labels with them? 22:10.995 --> 22:14.837 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one of the things that as you're helping someone through 22:15.417 --> 22:16.717 [SPEAKER_00]: process or the process. 22:16.737 --> 22:22.059 [SPEAKER_00]: When I teach this with decluttering, I'm always like, you don't have to teach them the method. 22:22.279 --> 22:26.840 [SPEAKER_00]: You just literally go through the method with them, which is our job as moms, right? 22:26.920 --> 22:28.640 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, let's look. 22:28.980 --> 22:30.220 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get out your homework. 22:30.240 --> 22:31.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get out your assignment book. 22:31.601 --> 22:34.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go on to Canvas or whatever. 22:34.961 --> 22:37.782 [SPEAKER_00]: They're on where we see what your assignments are for today. 22:42.163 --> 22:43.224 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what we're going to do. 22:43.524 --> 22:47.548 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to follow a five step process because then this is going to get you all the way to the end. 22:47.828 --> 22:51.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, we just say, hey, let's look, this is what we're going to do together. 22:51.151 --> 22:55.435 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, next, you know, when it's like, I don't know, because I mean, I have, I have three kids. 22:55.676 --> 22:59.759 [SPEAKER_00]: They're all born with my, my is in mind of my husband's jeans, you know, so we, 23:00.620 --> 23:02.601 [SPEAKER_00]: I know how it is like I can't look. 23:02.841 --> 23:03.442 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 23:03.462 --> 23:06.523 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't she never told me she didn't send anything home, whatever. 23:06.863 --> 23:10.445 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that step of let's put out and let's look together. 23:10.645 --> 23:11.245 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do this. 23:11.385 --> 23:13.767 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the second step is do the easy to have. 23:13.827 --> 23:14.027 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 23:14.047 --> 23:15.908 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what are you already know has to be done? 23:15.928 --> 23:17.769 [SPEAKER_00]: Because they may be overwhelmed by the project. 23:17.829 --> 23:19.450 [SPEAKER_00]: They may be overwhelmed by all the homework. 23:19.810 --> 23:23.311 [SPEAKER_00]: What are the things that you already know you do have to do? 23:23.392 --> 23:23.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do that. 23:23.832 --> 23:25.012 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have to get out our pencil. 23:25.052 --> 23:26.113 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to get out our paper. 23:26.173 --> 23:26.553 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to 23:28.414 --> 23:32.939 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you work through those steps, but not explaining that that's what we're doing. 23:33.419 --> 23:40.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Other thing I have to say, and this is, I don't give parenting advice because I know enough, you know, to know like hey. 23:42.462 --> 23:43.903 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I told myself at one point. 23:43.923 --> 23:49.047 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, 20 years from now, and I think I'm maybe seven years away before I'm willing to get a fair ending of ice. 23:49.447 --> 23:56.253 [SPEAKER_00]: But I will say for my own perspective, I had to shift my thinking into, I am a manager. 23:56.593 --> 24:03.839 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, and you think about, like, think about a fast food restaurant that you've been to, where it was, all you saw was a couple of teenagers. 24:04.559 --> 24:06.020 [SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't know what they were doing. 24:06.360 --> 24:07.000 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think? 24:07.160 --> 24:09.161 [SPEAKER_00]: You think it's the manager's fault, right? 24:09.181 --> 24:19.506 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the manager needs at different times there are different levels of like hands on, versus training, versus getting people into a situation where they can handle it on their own. 24:19.566 --> 24:21.467 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had to shift my thinking to go, 24:22.087 --> 24:24.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I am a manager in this situation. 24:24.569 --> 24:28.911 [SPEAKER_00]: So my goal is to get them to be able to do things on their own. 24:29.252 --> 24:33.614 [SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately, it does come down to the manager to make sure that those things are happening, right? 24:33.735 --> 24:39.718 [SPEAKER_00]: And to pay attention to who needs to be reminded and who needs to be, you know, helps through situation. 24:39.778 --> 24:40.539 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 24:40.579 --> 24:42.100 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's all the parenting advice I have. 24:43.141 --> 24:44.462 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, I think that's really good. 24:44.582 --> 24:51.928 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, again, all those back to those little steps to make it less overwhelming, because like going back to the fast food restaurant, nobody works at Chick-fil-A. 24:51.948 --> 24:56.791 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, okay, so you're going to put the uniform on and then you're just going to go to the drive, the drive they're going to take orders. 24:57.151 --> 24:57.392 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 24:57.452 --> 24:58.272 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe like what? 24:58.292 --> 24:59.233 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 24:59.753 --> 25:02.215 [SPEAKER_01]: I know to say my pleasure at the end, and that's all I know. 25:04.219 --> 25:09.751 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to tell them, like a little by little, probably multiple times, just like we have to tell ourselves too. 25:09.791 --> 25:13.919 [SPEAKER_00]: And then as a manager, I'm always watching to make sure if it's actually happening. 25:14.782 --> 25:14.942 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:15.222 --> 25:15.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 25:15.823 --> 25:16.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:16.403 --> 25:19.085 [SPEAKER_01]: And then hopefully less and less and less and less they get older. 25:19.225 --> 25:19.385 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:19.405 --> 25:19.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 25:19.905 --> 25:20.065 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:20.366 --> 25:21.166 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, yes. 25:21.206 --> 25:21.666 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 25:22.547 --> 25:22.867 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 25:23.568 --> 25:24.208 [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing. 25:24.248 --> 25:27.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes the things that they you're like, you used to know this. 25:27.710 --> 25:28.831 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we forgot. 25:29.912 --> 25:32.053 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's avoided also becomes there. 25:32.213 --> 25:35.015 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're the one to experience the consequences. 25:35.823 --> 25:39.025 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, my kids are great like my kids are great, but this is just reality. 25:39.045 --> 25:44.589 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like it is absolutely reality of like I think for myself growing up when did I learn the most? 25:44.830 --> 25:48.152 [SPEAKER_00]: I learned the most when I made mistakes, you know, can I give it an example? 25:48.913 --> 25:49.573 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure. 25:49.613 --> 25:52.775 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my daughter is a soft as a junior in college. 25:52.816 --> 25:58.780 [SPEAKER_00]: So, after her freshman year, she said, hey, because she goes far away and I fly up and then we drive back together. 25:59.100 --> 26:06.645 [SPEAKER_00]: And so after a freshman year, she said, my exams are going to be done at this time, so you can come and we'll leave at an hour later. 26:06.725 --> 26:11.528 [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, honey, you need to finish your exams and then pack and then we'll leave the next morning. 26:11.868 --> 26:22.295 [SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, okay, and this the last year, I thought when she said we can leave at this time that she was remembering what we had done that worked really while the year before. 26:22.955 --> 26:42.239 [SPEAKER_00]: And instead I get there and she had literally like it was so stressful for her because she was trying to pack and study for exams at the same time and she said you know what I realized I should probably do I should probably leave the day after my exams so that I can really focus as if I had never said that because she doesn't remember me saying that. 26:42.679 --> 27:07.040 [SPEAKER_00]: But now she knows it right like she experienced that and it is like literally this is now something that will change her life and how she views all those of those situations were me telling her didn't have that same effect and so that's that's my only it's not advice it's just a reality show parenting I mean it is like they are going to really truly learn things more when they actually make mistakes. 27:07.280 --> 27:07.500 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 27:07.661 --> 27:15.512 [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like it's so hard as a parent when my kids do stuff like that and they have this light bulb moment that I've been telling them for the whole of their whole time. 27:16.153 --> 27:21.822 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard not to laugh or be angry or like I'm just like that's a really good idea. 27:22.002 --> 27:23.023 [SPEAKER_01]: I should have thought of that. 27:23.744 --> 27:24.405 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 27:25.245 --> 27:26.046 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 27:26.286 --> 27:27.307 [SPEAKER_00]: You're so smart. 27:28.808 --> 27:29.308 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 27:29.508 --> 27:31.009 [SPEAKER_00]: But they are very smart. 27:31.049 --> 27:33.191 [SPEAKER_00]: They are learning it. 27:33.291 --> 27:37.734 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the reality and that is going to change their life when they have those realizations. 27:37.954 --> 27:38.174 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 27:38.274 --> 27:41.156 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you have to learn everything on your own because your parents telling you it's not. 27:41.496 --> 27:43.758 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work, but it's just a painful process. 27:43.798 --> 27:45.879 [SPEAKER_00]: Two out there as a parent and kid for sure. 27:46.079 --> 27:46.439 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 27:46.720 --> 27:47.000 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 27:47.420 --> 27:51.663 [SPEAKER_01]: To wrap us up for the parent listening who has something that they're procrastinating on. 27:51.978 --> 28:04.281 [SPEAKER_01]: whether they need to go make an appointment or make a return or maybe have a really hard conversation with a family member or a start of business or a house project or whatever it is that whoever is listening is procrastinating on. 28:04.301 --> 28:06.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what would you tell them to do today? 28:07.181 --> 28:08.902 [SPEAKER_00]: Today, do step one. 28:09.262 --> 28:11.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, so what does that mean? 28:11.402 --> 28:15.523 [SPEAKER_00]: It means like one of the examples you gave was you know, start a business. 28:15.883 --> 28:19.626 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I am going to whatever the idea is in your head. 28:19.826 --> 28:24.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Most likely it's based on something that you've done and enjoyed or whatever. 28:24.769 --> 28:28.992 [SPEAKER_00]: Go look and just see like, what do I already have set up for this? 28:29.072 --> 28:36.918 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, like in the book I talk about, you know, I take my five step process through different situations and one of them is starting a cupcake business, right? 28:37.138 --> 28:40.560 [SPEAKER_00]: So what does it mean to look what you go and you look and you see how many 28:41.381 --> 28:44.103 [SPEAKER_00]: How many, you know, cupcake pans do I have? 28:44.463 --> 28:46.264 [SPEAKER_00]: How many fit in my oven at one time? 28:46.685 --> 28:55.211 [SPEAKER_00]: How many, you know, like, it's just, I'm, I'm just gathering information, not researching because we can really spin out and just continue like, oh, how do you start a business instead? 28:55.451 --> 28:57.552 [SPEAKER_00]: Say, let me look at my actual situation. 28:57.872 --> 29:04.077 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me look at, you know, what are the cottage industry laws in my area, you know, that 29:06.478 --> 29:22.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Like go look and see what your actual situation is so that because we tend to spin out in our brains and imagine things and instead I'm like bringing it into reality by looking at my actual situation. 29:22.226 --> 29:22.466 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 29:22.847 --> 29:23.827 [SPEAKER_01]: So go to step one. 29:24.087 --> 29:26.629 [SPEAKER_01]: One tiny step today, which is so little. 29:26.969 --> 29:27.889 [SPEAKER_00]: It's no decisions. 29:28.009 --> 29:30.531 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not making decisions at that point and you're not. 29:31.552 --> 29:32.732 [SPEAKER_00]: you're not committing to anything. 29:33.073 --> 29:38.375 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'm gonna count this as success and as starting by just looking at the situation that I met. 29:38.515 --> 29:41.196 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, turn your brain off a little bit and then give yourself a high five. 29:41.216 --> 29:41.836 [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing something. 29:42.196 --> 29:42.997 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. 29:43.217 --> 29:43.417 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 29:43.997 --> 29:46.878 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, thank you so much for sharing everything with us. 29:46.898 --> 29:54.762 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us where we can connect with you because you have so many resources for, I mean decluttering procrastination, I mean just endless resources. 29:54.802 --> 29:58.223 [SPEAKER_01]: So where can we find you and then where can we get a copy of your book to? 29:58.443 --> 30:05.153 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you go to DanaK White.com, my website that I started way back when, you can also go to a Slubcams Clean.com. 30:05.173 --> 30:05.974 [SPEAKER_00]: They go to the same place. 30:06.214 --> 30:09.739 [SPEAKER_00]: That was my anonymous blog in the beginning that got me to where I am now. 30:09.880 --> 30:12.984 [SPEAKER_00]: That DanaK White.com slash procrastinate is going to have 30:13.825 --> 30:19.108 [SPEAKER_00]: the, you know, information about the book and where to get the book and how to get pre-order bonuses. 30:19.468 --> 30:35.357 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go to dnakwhite.com slash procrastinate, that's going to take you to find out more about the book and also to my site where you can look around because I've got lots of YouTube videos and podcasts and all sorts of different things to kind of start shifting your brain into being ready to 30:35.777 --> 30:36.257 [SPEAKER_00]: get started. 30:36.418 --> 30:36.678 [SPEAKER_01]: Great. 30:36.858 --> 30:38.519 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll link all that stuff in Shona. 30:38.539 --> 30:39.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Set people can find it. 30:39.940 --> 30:43.283 [SPEAKER_01]: Easily and connect with you, but I just thank you again for being here. 30:43.303 --> 30:44.464 [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed our conversation. 30:44.584 --> 30:45.344 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, me too. 30:45.365 --> 30:46.025 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just fun. 30:46.645 --> 30:50.048 [SPEAKER_01]: I really love Danos reminder that you don't have to finish the whole thing today. 30:50.088 --> 30:51.930 [SPEAKER_01]: You just have to start by looking. 30:52.050 --> 30:54.131 [SPEAKER_01]: So what is the thing you've been avoiding? 30:54.432 --> 30:55.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't make the giant plan. 30:55.693 --> 30:56.933 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't figure out every step. 30:57.314 --> 31:00.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't wait until you feel motivated or have enough time to do it perfectly. 31:00.696 --> 31:04.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Just look at the situation and take one tiny step forward 31:05.862 --> 31:14.194 [SPEAKER_01]: You can find Dana, her books, her podcast, YouTube videos, all of her resources at DanaKWhite.com and I'll link everything in the show notes for you so that it's really easy to find. 31:14.887 --> 31:16.869 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here with me today. 31:16.929 --> 31:24.037 [SPEAKER_01]: I really hope this conversation gives you permission to stop overthinking whatever is hanging over your head and just take that step that we talked about. 31:24.898 --> 31:29.203 [SPEAKER_01]: May God bless you this week and may remember that you don't have to have everything figured out. 31:29.683 --> 31:35.289 [SPEAKER_01]: May he give you the wisdom for what matters today, grace for what doesn't get done and energy to take the next step.