WEBVTT 00:00.732 --> 00:08.420 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine growing up being told that you're a harami, an illegitimate child, a mistake and someone who was just not meant to be here. 00:08.440 --> 00:15.787 [SPEAKER_00]: And imagine being told that the world will never treat you kindly, and that the only thing a woman like you can do is endure. 00:16.908 --> 00:22.491 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how Miriam, one of the two heroines of a thousand splendid sons, learns to see herself. 00:23.392 --> 00:26.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Room for Us, a space-work-weir voices thrive. 00:27.294 --> 00:28.995 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, P, and every single week. 00:29.055 --> 00:42.142 [SPEAKER_00]: I like to sit down, get vulnerable, and talk about all things queer with all of you, but I've also been wanting to open up the conversation to other topics and things that matter a lot to me, like politics and then also history. 00:43.343 --> 00:49.433 [SPEAKER_00]: and I instantly fell in love with the novel we're about to talk about, which is a thousand splendid sons. 00:49.953 --> 00:56.323 [SPEAKER_00]: This was recommended to me by my parents, and Crystal Sister stuff recently read it and said that she also couldn't put it down. 00:56.824 --> 00:58.627 [SPEAKER_00]: I've also been trying to get better with reading, 00:58.927 --> 01:13.718 [SPEAKER_00]: I find in general when I get myself into a headspace where I am just cozy, with a book and I have a tea, it makes me feel really, really calm, but sometimes I would feel myself getting restless or maybe not finding the books that were really intriguing to me. 01:14.338 --> 01:17.921 [SPEAKER_00]: But with a thousand splendid sons, I could not put it down. 01:18.161 --> 01:24.445 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually read it within a few days, and I think this novel is what made me fall in love with reading again. 01:25.005 --> 01:29.629 [SPEAKER_00]: And today we're doing a full deep dive on Khalid Hocini's 2007 novel. 01:30.209 --> 01:37.154 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a full spoiler episode, and I'm going to be walking through the whole plot, which includes the ending, and then give you my honest thoughts. 01:37.654 --> 01:42.978 [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't read it and you want to go and fresh, pause here, go read it, and come back. 01:43.898 --> 01:48.982 [SPEAKER_00]: I should also warn you that this book deals with domestic violence, suicide, war, and death. 01:49.462 --> 01:53.305 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very, very heavy one, and we're going to be talking all about it. 01:53.645 --> 01:56.708 [SPEAKER_00]: So first, here's a little background on Khalid Hosseini. 01:57.328 --> 02:00.150 [SPEAKER_00]: He was born in Kabul in 1965. 02:00.610 --> 02:10.918 [SPEAKER_00]: His family moved around because of his father's diplomatic work, and then in 1980, after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, they were granted political asylum in the United States. 02:11.638 --> 02:16.062 [SPEAKER_00]: Hocini became a physician, he practiced medicine for years, and then he wrote on the side. 02:16.742 --> 02:22.767 [SPEAKER_00]: His first novel, The Kite Runner, became a global phenomenon, and a thousand-splended sons, is his follow-up. 02:23.408 --> 02:32.335 [SPEAKER_00]: Where The Kite Runner is a story about men, about guilt, friendship, and betrayal, this one deliberately turns its attention to the women of Afghanistan. 02:33.035 --> 02:38.717 [SPEAKER_00]: Hozini has said that when he visited Kabul after the Taliban fell, he was struck by the women he saw. 02:39.217 --> 02:41.978 [SPEAKER_00]: Many of them in Berkha's, many of them begging in the streets. 02:42.498 --> 02:44.499 [SPEAKER_00]: He started imagining their stories. 02:45.359 --> 02:52.101 [SPEAKER_00]: And this book spans an enormous stretch of Afghan history, roughly the 1960s to the early 2000s. 02:52.761 --> 03:00.724 [SPEAKER_00]: The Soviet invasion, the communist coupe, the Mujahtin, the Civil War, the rise of the Taliban, and the American invasion after 911. 03:01.924 --> 03:07.028 [SPEAKER_00]: We watch all of this through the lives of two women, and I think that's the book's greatest strength. 03:07.528 --> 03:09.290 [SPEAKER_00]: The politics are never abstract. 03:09.550 --> 03:15.194 [SPEAKER_00]: Every regime change shows up as a new rule in the kitchen, a new danger on the street, and a new door closing. 03:15.455 --> 03:23.621 [SPEAKER_00]: The title, which is so beautiful by the way, comes from a poem about Kabul by the 17th century poet, Sabe, Tiberisi. 03:24.141 --> 03:30.304 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about the city's beauty, and the line the title is drawn from describes the splendid sun's hiding behind its walls. 03:30.905 --> 03:38.048 [SPEAKER_00]: Hold on to that because the sun's turned out to be the women hidden behind the walls of every kind, and I'm going to come back to this. 03:38.969 --> 03:41.230 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's get into part one, which is Maryam. 03:41.990 --> 03:46.311 [SPEAKER_00]: The book opens with Maryam and her story is heartbreaking from the first pages. 03:46.931 --> 03:50.032 [SPEAKER_00]: She's born in the 1950s outside the city of Herat. 03:50.632 --> 03:54.813 [SPEAKER_00]: Her mother, Nana, was a housekeeper for a wealthy businessman named Jolil. 03:55.513 --> 03:59.674 [SPEAKER_00]: Jolil had three wives and nine children already, but he got Nana pregnant. 04:00.214 --> 04:02.934 [SPEAKER_00]: And because of the shame, Nana was cast out of it. 04:03.534 --> 04:05.035 [SPEAKER_00]: Jolil put her and baby 04:11.076 --> 04:15.120 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Maryam automatically grows up in this world isolated and ashamed. 04:15.760 --> 04:21.125 [SPEAKER_00]: Nana is bitter and cruel, but she's also the only person who's ever kept Maryam close. 04:21.866 --> 04:24.288 [SPEAKER_00]: She drills a single lesson into her daughter. 04:24.608 --> 04:26.730 [SPEAKER_00]: A woman's only skill is endurance. 04:27.971 --> 04:28.772 [SPEAKER_00]: just bear it. 04:29.412 --> 04:33.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Men's blame will always fall on women, so learn to swallow it. 04:33.915 --> 04:37.217 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryam's one bright spot is Jolil, who visits every Thursday. 04:37.877 --> 04:41.459 [SPEAKER_00]: He brings gifts, he tells her stories, and she just adores him. 04:41.700 --> 04:46.503 [SPEAKER_00]: She has a second father figure too, named Fizzula, who teaches her the quarron. 04:46.983 --> 04:49.745 [SPEAKER_00]: Then comes the turning point of Maryam's whole life. 04:50.545 --> 04:58.029 [SPEAKER_00]: On her 15th birthday, Maryam Baggs Joliel to take her to see his cinema in town and watch a film Pinocchio at his own theater. 04:58.269 --> 04:59.970 [SPEAKER_00]: He says yes, but he doesn't show up. 05:00.150 --> 05:04.312 [SPEAKER_00]: So she goes into the city herself, finds his mansion and waits at the gate. 05:05.052 --> 05:08.294 [SPEAKER_00]: Joliel unwilling to face his wives and family won't let her in. 05:08.954 --> 05:12.896 [SPEAKER_00]: She spent the night in the street and his driver takes her home the next morning. 05:13.356 --> 05:17.178 [SPEAKER_00]: And when she gets back, she finds Nana has hanged herself from a tree. 05:17.358 --> 05:24.043 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the moment Maryam realizes that the father she adored was a coward who had let her standard escape and never open it. 05:24.764 --> 05:30.909 [SPEAKER_00]: Julia's family takes her in briefly, but they have an easy solution to the problem of an illegitimate teenage daughter. 05:31.009 --> 05:31.909 [SPEAKER_00]: They marry her off. 05:32.069 --> 05:38.715 [SPEAKER_00]: Within weeks, 15-year-old Maryam is wed to Rashid, a shoemaker in Kabul, about 30 years her senior. 05:39.015 --> 05:40.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Kabul is a shock. 05:40.896 --> 05:46.100 [SPEAKER_00]: Rashid starts out very, very gruff in the beginning, but not necessarily terrible. 05:47.061 --> 05:49.382 [SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, this starts to slowly change. 05:49.942 --> 05:56.426 [SPEAKER_00]: The first thing he does is insist she wears a burka, and Maryam, who's never worn one, finds it suffocating. 05:56.666 --> 06:01.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Then she gets pregnant, and for a brief moment there's hope, but she loses the baby. 06:01.748 --> 06:06.111 [SPEAKER_00]: Then again and again, each miscarriage makes Rashid, colder, and cooler. 06:06.691 --> 06:09.873 [SPEAKER_00]: By the time we're a few years in, he's using his fists. 06:10.753 --> 06:13.835 [SPEAKER_00]: The marriage becomes a long stretch of pure fear for her. 06:14.436 --> 06:16.977 [SPEAKER_00]: The way he'll criticize the rice being too hard. 06:18.358 --> 06:21.020 [SPEAKER_00]: And this was a really, really hard part for me to read. 06:22.101 --> 06:26.124 [SPEAKER_00]: He forces Maryam to put paddles in her mouth and chew. 06:27.185 --> 06:31.608 [SPEAKER_00]: Just so she'll know what in his mind, bad rice feels like. 06:32.328 --> 06:35.390 [SPEAKER_00]: It's seriously one of the most chilling images in the book when you read it. 06:36.151 --> 06:38.393 [SPEAKER_00]: Then we're gonna get into part two, which is Lila. 06:39.273 --> 06:44.397 [SPEAKER_00]: This is about a third of the way in, and the perspective of the book completely shifts to a different girl. 06:44.597 --> 06:52.402 [SPEAKER_00]: So Lila is born in Kabul in 1978, the same week as the communist coupe, and her childhood is polar opposite of mariums. 06:53.143 --> 06:58.567 [SPEAKER_00]: Her father Hakim is a progressive school teacher who believes passionately and educating his daughter. 06:59.528 --> 07:01.409 [SPEAKER_00]: Marriage can wait, education cannot. 07:01.749 --> 07:06.453 [SPEAKER_00]: He tells her in effect that Afghanistan can't succeed unless it's women are educated. 07:07.314 --> 07:09.696 [SPEAKER_00]: Her mother, Faribha, is a different story. 07:10.236 --> 07:19.743 [SPEAKER_00]: She's consumed by grief because her two older sons, Ahmed and Nur, have gone up to fight the Soviets with the Mujahideen, and she can barely see Lila. 07:20.184 --> 07:23.847 [SPEAKER_00]: But Lila's real emotional anchor is Turek, the boy next door. 07:24.587 --> 07:30.394 [SPEAKER_00]: He is a little older, and he had lost part of his leg to a landmine, and he's fiercely protective of her. 07:31.035 --> 07:33.298 [SPEAKER_00]: As they grew up, their friendship turns into love. 07:33.698 --> 07:38.704 [SPEAKER_00]: It's sweet, tentative, believable romance, and it's definitely the light at the center of the book. 07:38.985 --> 07:40.647 [SPEAKER_00]: But Kabul is falling apart. 07:41.067 --> 07:46.770 [SPEAKER_00]: the Soviets leave and instead of peace, the Mujahideen factions begin fighting each other for control of the city. 07:47.390 --> 07:56.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Rockets fraying down, to wreak family decides to flee to Pakistan, and on the night before he leaves, he and Layla do sleep together and it's the last time she sees him for years. 07:56.795 --> 08:00.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Then, comes the day when a rocket hits Laila's house. 08:00.857 --> 08:01.897 [SPEAKER_00]: Her parents are killed. 08:02.517 --> 08:08.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Laila is gravely wounded and she's pulled from the rubble by Rashid Emmeriam. 08:08.940 --> 08:11.421 [SPEAKER_00]: They bring her into their home and they nurse her back to hell. 08:11.521 --> 08:14.382 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where Rashid really shows his manipulative side. 08:15.002 --> 08:19.524 [SPEAKER_00]: As Laila recovers, he becomes very gentle and kind to her and she's vulnerable. 08:19.824 --> 08:24.306 [SPEAKER_00]: A man shows up and tells her he's a friend of Toriqs and that Toriq had been killed. 08:25.066 --> 08:27.869 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a lie that we find out was planted by Rashid. 08:28.529 --> 08:31.852 [SPEAKER_00]: He wants a young wife and he needs her to have no other options. 08:32.393 --> 08:37.837 [SPEAKER_00]: And once Lila discovers she's pregnant with Toriq's baby, she realizes she has nowhere to go. 08:38.478 --> 08:42.421 [SPEAKER_00]: So to give the child a father and a roof, she agrees to marry Rashid. 08:42.681 --> 08:46.845 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we get into part three of the novel, and this is the two women in the one house. 08:47.885 --> 08:49.687 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe this is the heart of the book. 08:50.187 --> 09:00.354 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got Maryam, who's been Rashid's wife for nearly 20 years, and now a younger, educated girl, who's being installed as the second wife. 09:01.175 --> 09:09.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryam is furious, she resents Lila, she's cruel to her, and the household becomes kind of like a battlefield between the two of them. 09:09.641 --> 09:12.363 [SPEAKER_00]: They're literally forced to compete for the same abuser. 09:13.083 --> 09:19.646 [SPEAKER_00]: but slowly things shift after Lila gives birth to her daughter Aziza and Rashida's furious that she's a girl. 09:20.327 --> 09:21.567 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryam sees what's happening. 09:22.108 --> 09:27.631 [SPEAKER_00]: The abuse is now turning on Lila and she begins to see her as a person rather than a rival. 09:28.371 --> 09:31.733 [SPEAKER_00]: They fight, they make up, and eventually something extraordinary happens. 09:32.393 --> 09:36.375 [SPEAKER_00]: They become friends, then sisters, then something even deeper. 09:36.855 --> 09:37.215 [SPEAKER_00]: The first 09:40.397 --> 09:50.452 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryam, who's never felt like she's been truly loved, finds herself deeply attached to baby Aziza, and for the first time in her life she has a family. 09:50.713 --> 09:56.080 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, history keeps lurching forward, in 1996 the Taliban take Kabul. 09:56.701 --> 10:03.027 [SPEAKER_00]: Initially, many people feel a sense of relief that the rocket attacks have stopped, but the cost is staggering. 10:03.608 --> 10:08.432 [SPEAKER_00]: Women are banned from working, from voing a school, from leaving the house without a male relative. 10:09.013 --> 10:13.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Windows must be painted over, music is banned, laughter is nearly outlawed. 10:13.818 --> 10:15.479 [SPEAKER_00]: Lila and Rashid have another child. 10:16.040 --> 10:17.781 [SPEAKER_00]: A boy named Zalmai. 10:18.462 --> 10:28.454 [SPEAKER_00]: whom Rashid adores, but with the economy and ruins and food scars, Rashid makes the cruel decision to send Aziza to an orphanage because he says they can't afford her. 10:29.155 --> 10:34.662 [SPEAKER_00]: The women can only visit her by sneaking across the city completely unaccompanied and constant danger. 10:35.102 --> 10:38.086 [SPEAKER_00]: At some point, Lila and Maryam tried to run away. 10:38.867 --> 10:43.052 [SPEAKER_00]: They get to the best station and are caught by the Taliban police who return them to Rashid. 10:43.693 --> 10:44.855 [SPEAKER_00]: The punishment is brutal. 10:45.175 --> 10:48.519 [SPEAKER_00]: He nearly stars them, locking them in a room for days without water. 10:48.860 --> 10:49.981 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we get into the ending. 10:50.682 --> 10:55.745 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the part I really want to talk through, so here's the final spoiler alert. 10:56.165 --> 10:57.886 [SPEAKER_00]: One day, a knot comes to the door. 10:58.647 --> 10:59.327 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Turek. 11:00.047 --> 11:00.668 [SPEAKER_00]: He's alive. 11:01.048 --> 11:01.868 [SPEAKER_00]: He had never died. 11:02.689 --> 11:03.529 [SPEAKER_00]: Rashid had lied. 11:04.030 --> 11:07.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Layla's heart almost stops like she can't even believe this is happening. 11:08.472 --> 11:12.294 [SPEAKER_00]: and she and Tariq have a beautiful reunion that is tender and heartbreaking. 11:12.654 --> 11:14.636 [SPEAKER_00]: He tells her he'd spent years looking for her. 11:15.096 --> 11:22.220 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is when Lila actually tells Tariq that Aziza is to reach child, not Rashid. 11:22.620 --> 11:30.665 [SPEAKER_00]: When her and Tariq do reconnect again, Lila's younger son innocently tells Rashid about this. 11:31.225 --> 11:34.627 [SPEAKER_00]: and Rashid being so controlling and abusive. 11:35.367 --> 11:37.368 [SPEAKER_00]: He is very, very angry about this. 11:37.968 --> 11:41.410 [SPEAKER_00]: Suspecting that, I mean, I think it's throughout the whole book. 11:42.190 --> 11:44.291 [SPEAKER_00]: I pretty sure he suspects the entire time. 11:44.311 --> 11:51.675 [SPEAKER_00]: That Aziza isn't a child, and he kind of keeps trying to get more information out of Lila to say her and Tariq had slept together in the past. 11:51.855 --> 11:57.238 [SPEAKER_00]: While she stays tight-lipped about that, you know, when the years passed and she's finally reunited with Tariq, 11:57.898 --> 11:58.919 [SPEAKER_00]: Rishi just loses it. 11:59.319 --> 12:00.879 [SPEAKER_00]: And he attacks Lila. 12:01.420 --> 12:03.561 [SPEAKER_00]: He has this intention to kill her. 12:03.681 --> 12:13.045 [SPEAKER_00]: He starts to strangle her and Miriam, who has just endured everything in her life and who has been taught her whole life that her job is to just bear it. 12:13.626 --> 12:17.788 [SPEAKER_00]: She finally just loses it and she doesn't want to lose Lila. 12:18.228 --> 12:21.970 [SPEAKER_00]: She picks up a shovel and strikes Rishi that actually kills him. 12:23.110 --> 12:27.651 [SPEAKER_00]: She and Lila bury him in the yard, and then Maryam has to make her really, really tough choice. 12:28.491 --> 12:37.313 [SPEAKER_00]: She insists that Lila takes the children and they go with Toreek to safety, to Pakistan, and Maryam herself will stay behind. 12:37.814 --> 12:46.796 [SPEAKER_00]: And when the Taliban will eventually come, she will take full responsibility because she doesn't want anyone to be suspicious of Lila or Toreek, 12:53.297 --> 13:00.442 [SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be a whole investigation, and they're always going to have to be on the run and in a way like they're always going to be unsafe. 13:01.703 --> 13:09.448 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the saddest thing I could not stop crying, even thinking about that that was Maryam's ending is really hard to actually talk about. 13:09.988 --> 13:15.252 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, because Maryam confesses to this murder, she sentenced to death. 13:16.332 --> 13:23.697 [SPEAKER_00]: In a final conversation, she tells Leila that she's at peace, and it's the first time in her life she's chosen something for herself. 13:24.117 --> 13:27.059 [SPEAKER_00]: She knows that Leila and the children are free. 13:27.879 --> 13:32.662 [SPEAKER_00]: The final line of Maryam's story is something that really sticks with me. 13:33.503 --> 13:36.545 [SPEAKER_00]: One last time, Maryam did as she was told. 13:37.045 --> 13:41.809 [SPEAKER_00]: This is like the final act of obedience that Maryam has done her entire life. 13:42.490 --> 13:49.936 [SPEAKER_00]: It's voluntary sacrifice to secure freedom and safety for Lila and her family. 13:51.057 --> 14:01.926 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really think towards this portion of the book, like right before she's about to die and she had been living this life with Lila, I could say that must have been 14:03.007 --> 14:13.330 [SPEAKER_00]: Those were definitely the moments of joy and Miriam's life, and I would love to talk to someone a little bit more in depth about this, because when you read the book, Miriam's whole story is tragic. 14:14.010 --> 14:15.291 [SPEAKER_00]: From the beginning, right? 14:15.351 --> 14:19.812 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like she starts in the novel as a kid who's called Harami, 14:20.893 --> 14:22.374 [SPEAKER_00]: meaning, you know, unwanted. 14:23.174 --> 14:34.361 [SPEAKER_00]: And then she's married off to this abuser, lives so many years with him alone and scared and just trying to endure, like her mother had always told her. 14:34.882 --> 14:41.186 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Lila is this light, same with Aziza, same with the Sun, Zalmi. 14:41.606 --> 14:47.870 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just, I'm just grateful that she had those moments where towards the end of her life, those musted 14:50.530 --> 14:58.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryam, who was born, Harami, who was told she'd never matter, ends her life as the person who had saved others. 14:58.592 --> 15:01.793 [SPEAKER_00]: Her last act is the first act of her life that was fully her own. 15:02.794 --> 15:09.575 [SPEAKER_00]: Years later, at the Taliban of Fallen, Laila and Tariq have been living in Pakistan, but she really feels like she has to come home. 15:10.676 --> 15:12.556 [SPEAKER_00]: And she misses Afghanistan. 15:13.237 --> 15:18.038 [SPEAKER_00]: But she also really wants to go back to Harat, to Maryam's old village and finds, 15:18.558 --> 15:23.324 [SPEAKER_00]: that the Mula Fizzula Sun still remembers her. 15:23.764 --> 15:34.256 [SPEAKER_00]: He remembers the name and he gives her all the stuff that Jaleal, who was Maryam's real father, had wanted to give to her in hopes of forgiveness. 15:34.896 --> 15:56.586 [SPEAKER_00]: She discovers that there's a letter that Lila had left for her and also a tape which plays Pinocchio and actually Lila doesn't understand it and that line also really breaks my heart because when it says something like Lila watched the tape but doesn't understand like the significance of Pinocchio, all of us who have been with Maryam since the beginning know exactly why. 15:57.066 --> 15:59.227 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that was the start of her tragedy. 15:59.747 --> 16:09.038 [SPEAKER_00]: like she's going in hopes to go to the cinema with her father to watch Pinocchio and a cinema he owns and he abandoned her and then he leaves her with this tape. 16:09.218 --> 16:13.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Lila also reads the letter which basically is Juliael just begging for forgiveness. 16:15.105 --> 16:26.228 [SPEAKER_00]: And Lila, after seeing all this, I think feels closer to Miriam, and is so happy to have seen that part of her life to see where she grew up. 16:26.248 --> 16:34.750 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we kind of learned that Lila goes on to work at the orphanage, where Aziza had one stayed when Rashid said they couldn't afford her. 16:35.090 --> 16:36.971 [SPEAKER_00]: anymore, and that was where she was staying. 16:37.792 --> 16:52.201 [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, she's expecting another child, and she says they have this game where they go back and forth with boy names, but they don't do this with girl names because she already knows what the name is going to be if she has a girl, and of course that's Marianne. 16:53.422 --> 16:57.724 [SPEAKER_00]: So, what were all of your thoughts for all of you who read this book? 16:58.004 --> 17:06.627 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to read it again and honestly go back and highlight all my favorite lines because it is so impactful and it's a book that is going to stay with me forever, honestly. 17:07.687 --> 17:12.669 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the strengths of this novel is the emphasis on the women. 17:12.909 --> 17:16.610 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are always my favorite kind of books, like women empowerment and 17:17.290 --> 17:19.771 [SPEAKER_00]: friendship, and that's the central storyline. 17:19.812 --> 17:22.253 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is the friendship between Mary and Lila. 17:22.333 --> 17:25.034 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the best written female relationships I've read. 17:25.675 --> 17:27.336 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also because it isn't instant. 17:27.396 --> 17:36.120 [SPEAKER_00]: It actually kind of starts as the like tense, grudge, and they don't really like each other that much, especially Maryam to Lila a little bit more. 17:37.061 --> 17:39.702 [SPEAKER_00]: Lila is still trying, but Maryam is very cool to her. 17:40.243 --> 17:43.945 [SPEAKER_00]: But this friendship is earned through hundreds of pages, and 17:46.426 --> 17:47.967 [SPEAKER_00]: who protects Lila. 17:48.907 --> 17:51.869 [SPEAKER_00]: I also really love how the book uses history. 17:52.009 --> 18:04.135 [SPEAKER_00]: It's something like I learned so much more about when it comes to everything Afghanistan has gone through and knowing this now that the Taliban have taken over control of Afghanistan again. 18:04.976 --> 18:08.040 [SPEAKER_00]: As recently as 2021 is that much more heartbreaking. 18:08.100 --> 18:20.917 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the things you're reading about from over the years and this book are still happening to this day and that is something to really really think about and remember as you're reading about these characters. 18:21.497 --> 18:33.524 [SPEAKER_00]: I had read a comment somewhere on Reddit because I was doing a deep dive on this book where someone said when they found out the Taliban had taken control again, they actually thought about the character Lila and that's how impactful. 18:34.385 --> 18:43.250 [SPEAKER_00]: These characters like R for us, they leave such a mark because to us they're not just characters, they're real women and we know Lila and 18:50.914 --> 18:54.137 [SPEAKER_00]: as recently as five years ago, that's not the case anymore. 18:54.597 --> 18:55.098 [SPEAKER_00]: They're back. 18:55.878 --> 19:14.974 [SPEAKER_00]: I would definitely say the history is very important to learn about the rockets and the bands, you know, like the bands on music, the dress code, how women can't even leave without the company without being accompanied by a male relative is just like it's shocking, right? 19:15.014 --> 19:16.636 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is actually what's going on in 19:18.157 --> 19:22.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, Maryam's arc is just devastating. 19:22.921 --> 19:27.685 [SPEAKER_00]: I think like her whole character in general is really, really going to touch you. 19:28.145 --> 19:33.510 [SPEAKER_00]: She's a character who begins the book believing she is nothing, but ends it as the most heroic figure in modern fiction. 19:34.610 --> 19:41.456 [SPEAKER_00]: And as much as she's terrified and she's crying and she's scared, she chooses that anyway. 19:42.036 --> 19:44.979 [SPEAKER_00]: As long as it means she's protecting someone who she really, really loves. 19:45.765 --> 19:57.617 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say though, like this book is a really, really heavy read and that is the beautiful part about it, but I will say like you don't really catch a break and that is why I think a lot of people might find this really tough to read. 19:58.118 --> 19:59.219 [SPEAKER_00]: It's relentless, right? 19:59.259 --> 20:04.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Like tragedy follows tragedy and some readers might feel like this is just completely miserable, you know? 20:04.564 --> 20:04.624 [SPEAKER_00]: So, 20:05.485 --> 20:32.184 [SPEAKER_00]: Whether you find that powerful or just emotionally exhausting kind of really depends on the reader like for me It carried a lot of weight and darkness, and I kind of had to take a break like I really really do want to read the kite runner But I think I kind of need to give myself a little bit of a break because of the emotional exhaustion like this book did cause me But I know that It is gonna be sticking with me forever, and I'm so grateful that I did 20:32.744 --> 20:38.886 [SPEAKER_00]: read it, and when I'm ready to read the kite runner, I'm also going to do a whole episode about that as well. 20:39.346 --> 20:42.066 [SPEAKER_00]: So back to those splendid sons. 20:42.427 --> 20:44.227 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what I brought up in the beginning of the episode. 20:44.847 --> 20:51.469 [SPEAKER_00]: The titles suggest that behind the walls of Kabul, behind the burqas and the lock doors are the lives of immense brilliance. 20:52.029 --> 20:58.831 [SPEAKER_00]: Women whose names rarely make the history books, but who in their own quiet ways light up the world around them. 20:59.551 --> 21:04.116 [SPEAKER_00]: Maryam believes she would be forgotten, but the final pages show us she will never be. 21:04.636 --> 21:10.762 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the book ends with it being a nod to Maryam, which is so, so beautiful. 21:11.915 --> 21:14.456 [SPEAKER_00]: So now let's talk about this. 21:14.536 --> 21:17.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Get into my DM's ASAP because I wanna hear your thoughts. 21:18.098 --> 21:21.880 [SPEAKER_00]: Did Miriams ending hit you as hard as it hit me because I was a wreck. 21:22.600 --> 21:24.021 [SPEAKER_00]: I was not okay, I was crying. 21:26.262 --> 21:38.588 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanna know what are the things you learned about when it came to Afghan history, or these are things you would already understood, or were these things that you were completely new to you and especially knowing now that the Taliban have taken over again. 21:39.249 --> 21:57.711 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to hear what you've thought because I would have to say this is one of my favorite books I've ever read We're definitely going to be diving into another book next month and I'm going to announce which one that is and I'll do an episode about it I think For this podcast as I've mentioned I love talking every single week about things that really interest me and 21:58.512 --> 22:09.794 [SPEAKER_00]: I've gotten excited about reading again and I need to thank Khaled Hussini for getting me back into reading because I think I've also noticed historical fiction might be my favorite genre. 22:09.874 --> 22:21.616 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Steph mentioned to me when we were chatting because I was always trying to find like what are the books that really really get me like wrapped up into this whole other world and I think it might have to be historical fiction. 22:22.196 --> 22:24.277 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming if you listen to this episode, 22:27.037 --> 22:35.810 [SPEAKER_00]: Or you, I just spoiled the whole thing for you, but regardless, I hope you enjoyed this episode, let's chat about it, and I will see you all next week. 22:36.251 --> 22:36.992 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for tuning in.