WEBVTT 00:00.689 --> 00:00.891 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 00:04.529 --> 00:06.891 [SPEAKER_12]: I wanted to tell you all about this new podcast series. 00:06.971 --> 00:11.173 [SPEAKER_12]: That is blowing my mind right now, called The Gilded Rage. 00:11.734 --> 00:13.355 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm dropping the first episode here. 00:13.855 --> 00:22.701 [SPEAKER_12]: It's an unbelievable story that starts out going one way, then takes a bunch of shocking twists and turns and ends in murder. 00:23.381 --> 00:28.105 [SPEAKER_12]: But here's the line from one of the victims in this show that totally had me hooked. 00:28.465 --> 00:32.648 [SPEAKER_12]: This woman, she walks into her local police department one day and says, 00:33.728 --> 00:38.994 [SPEAKER_04]: I need to speak to a detective or an officer because a man that raped me is living in my own on the street for me. 00:39.995 --> 00:55.492 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, and let me tell you, being an accused rapist is the least of this guy's trouble right now, because of this podcast, I'm going to play episode one for you here and if you want to hear more episodes, just search the gilded rage wherever you get your podcasts. 00:55.972 --> 01:06.235 [SPEAKER_12]: Remember to include the in the gilded rage or just go to patreon.com slash the gilded rage and subscribe to hear all the episodes right now. 01:06.875 --> 01:09.916 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so here's episode one of the gilded rage. 01:10.596 --> 01:11.276 [SPEAKER_12]: Enjoy. 01:11.296 --> 01:13.777 [SPEAKER_06]: A warning. 01:14.357 --> 01:18.378 [SPEAKER_06]: This episode contains discussions of sexual assault and trauma. 01:18.618 --> 01:20.759 [SPEAKER_06]: So listen to discretion is advised. 01:21.779 --> 01:25.420 [SPEAKER_06]: Support resources will be provided at the end of this episode. 01:27.065 --> 01:42.435 [SPEAKER_08]: just going off the railing and then probably getting this pipe and landing where she was found in a final resting position and something else had what happened before she ended and I don't think she ended there or just coming on the rail. 01:42.615 --> 01:54.323 [SPEAKER_06]: It's January of 2026 and I'm just outside Boulder Colorado with two detectives and my co-producer standing on a small bridge looking at the scene where a college freshman died in 1985. 01:56.576 --> 02:08.200 [SPEAKER_06]: She falls backwards on the window ledge, she gets her right on the curb, she gets up, she's disoriented, she starts moving, she stumbles, she falls and it's just kind of perfect storm. 02:08.380 --> 02:13.162 [SPEAKER_04]: I think though with them, I don't think she could have fallen accidentally over the railing. 02:13.683 --> 02:17.704 [SPEAKER_05]: But then there was also a last relation on the back of her skull, which we're trying to figure out. 02:18.304 --> 02:19.925 [SPEAKER_05]: Could she have fallen out the window? 02:21.439 --> 02:28.362 [SPEAKER_06]: How do I end up in the middle of the Rocky Mountains investigating the death of a college freshman girl more than 40 years later? 02:29.622 --> 02:32.143 [SPEAKER_06]: It all starts two years earlier. 02:34.084 --> 02:39.226 [SPEAKER_04]: Dear Lauren, I'm reaching out to you to seek your help with a crucial issue that I have been grappling with. 02:40.206 --> 02:44.928 [SPEAKER_04]: Having explored all possible solutions, I have come to the realization that perhaps you could help me. 02:45.972 --> 02:54.239 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm almost four years into investigating my own mother's murder when I get an email out of the blue from a fellow Rhode Island resident. 02:55.160 --> 03:01.005 [SPEAKER_06]: She's found my story on social media and knows I've had some success opening up my case in our state. 03:01.725 --> 03:05.709 [SPEAKER_06]: She's making some bombshell allegations that catch me off guard. 03:07.963 --> 03:16.810 [SPEAKER_04]: On August 22nd, 1981, I endured a deeply traumatic incident in Narragansu, Rhode Island, where it was sexually assaulted by an individual named. 03:17.431 --> 03:24.637 [SPEAKER_06]: It's early March 2024, and Penelope McGee has blitzed out some version of this letter to about 25 people. 03:25.257 --> 03:30.882 [SPEAKER_06]: Everyone from Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh's accuser Christine Blazi Ford and her lawyers 03:37.447 --> 03:41.772 [SPEAKER_06]: It's clear to me that Penelope is desperate to get someone to listen to her. 03:42.453 --> 03:53.066 [SPEAKER_06]: And I can relate, I know what it feels like to beg people to listen to you, to believe your story, only to be met with unreturned emails, calls, letters. 03:54.100 --> 03:59.064 [SPEAKER_15]: Will Lori Lee Malois finally get just as 30 years after her death. 03:59.124 --> 04:01.446 [SPEAKER_15]: Her daughter hopes and believes so. 04:01.706 --> 04:10.152 [SPEAKER_15]: March 7, 1993, 30 years ago, just yesterday, Lori Lee Malois was found dead by police on the bathroom floor of her road island apartment. 04:10.392 --> 04:21.361 [SPEAKER_15]: Police began investigating as a homicide seem to make sense, but then the chief medical examiner released his report, the forensics equivalent of nothing to see here. 04:23.810 --> 04:29.266 [SPEAKER_06]: My journey to find out what happened to my mother turned into a podcast called MyMom's Murder. 04:29.848 --> 04:31.192 [SPEAKER_06]: But back to this story. 04:32.548 --> 04:38.789 [SPEAKER_06]: Growing up in Rhode Island and dealing with some of the same players' Penelope is now dealing with, I feel a connection. 04:39.410 --> 04:40.830 [SPEAKER_06]: So, I respond. 04:41.610 --> 04:46.911 [SPEAKER_06]: In our first Zoom conversation, Penelope tells me to call her Penny, because everyone does. 04:47.672 --> 04:52.133 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny and I start talking and the layers of her story blow me away. 04:52.793 --> 05:02.095 [SPEAKER_06]: It becomes clear really quickly that this story is way deeper, far more explosive, and much more nuanced than that first letter indicated. 05:02.715 --> 05:09.881 [SPEAKER_06]: when they found his car he had the shoe and the sweater in it and that's I think what led them to arrest him. 05:10.481 --> 05:15.005 [SPEAKER_06]: I have no idea what I'm getting myself into but there's no turning back. 05:15.765 --> 05:25.253 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm barreling headfirst into a verified world of money, power, and dark dirty secrets seemingly silenced by privilege. 05:26.733 --> 05:33.221 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm Lauren Maloy, and this is the Guild of Rage episode 1, a deeply traumatic incident. 05:46.332 --> 05:49.833 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm driving with my producer, Aliza, in Newport, Rhode Island. 05:50.433 --> 05:54.754 [SPEAKER_06]: It's a town overflowing with history, prestige, and tons of money. 05:55.094 --> 05:58.075 [SPEAKER_02]: Very big circular, privately here. 05:58.895 --> 06:07.877 [SPEAKER_06]: As we drive down the famed Bellevue Avenue, it's impossible to not be impressed by the line of mansions nestled behind extravagant raw iron gates. 06:09.717 --> 06:14.258 [SPEAKER_06]: It's the exact opposite of the Rhode Island neighborhood in Providence where I grew up. 06:15.573 --> 06:20.116 [SPEAKER_06]: Despite my education and success, I know I'm still an outsider here. 06:20.456 --> 06:23.378 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, with trees banging from like the worst. 06:23.478 --> 06:28.602 [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder what the, did you check with the wind gusts where I'm wondering, like, how many miles per hour that I don't know. 06:28.642 --> 06:33.005 [SPEAKER_02]: You had a high wind advisor, you know, but I got off my phone as I was driving crazy. 06:33.445 --> 06:38.188 [SPEAKER_06]: On this cold stormy night in early April, Newport is a ghost town. 06:38.929 --> 06:44.092 [SPEAKER_06]: Most homeowners are probably still at their Palm Beach estates where they escape the brutal New England 06:46.114 --> 06:51.756 [SPEAKER_06]: We turn on to a private road that ends with the ocean, the white surf crashing against the rocks. 06:52.056 --> 06:54.497 [SPEAKER_05]: This is a full end, if it's an open driveway, maybe. 06:54.717 --> 06:59.379 [SPEAKER_06]: When we reached the last house on the left, we turned into its circular gravel driveway. 07:00.579 --> 07:08.842 [SPEAKER_06]: A weathered stone lion statue snorkels at us from the middle of the circle as if the mere sight of my humble Honda Civic is an insult to its domain. 07:09.863 --> 07:13.164 [SPEAKER_06]: It turns out this house has some serious pedigree. 07:15.382 --> 07:23.264 [SPEAKER_05]: In a time of tradition, in a place of privilege, the age of innocence, the Martin Scorsesi picture, 07:36.748 --> 07:46.931 [SPEAKER_06]: The 1993 movie, The Age of Innocence, was based on the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel by Edith Warton, and she owned the very house we are now walking into. 07:47.912 --> 08:01.756 [SPEAKER_06]: When Warton bought it in 1893, she called it, Incurably Ugly, and spent a small fortune trying to make it her own, more welcoming, more homie, or as homie as an 11-bed 10-bath mansion can be. 08:04.069 --> 08:16.353 [SPEAKER_06]: Making our way through the large front doors of Wharton's estate, I think how ironic that her story is centered around an upper-class couple, scandal and the morals or lack thereof of high society. 08:17.214 --> 08:19.935 [SPEAKER_06]: So similar to the story we're chasing today. 08:24.316 --> 08:28.458 [SPEAKER_04]: Just while you're doing this, I do things that I haven't told anybody, including a therapist. 08:32.632 --> 08:37.998 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny's a tall slim 57-year-old woman dressed elegantly in a sweater and slacks. 08:38.498 --> 08:43.744 [SPEAKER_06]: Late makeup carefully applied, her Auburn hair pulled back into a neat stylish updo. 08:44.445 --> 08:50.852 [SPEAKER_06]: The mansion is well-appointed, but the story we're here to learn is not, it's incurably ugly. 08:51.572 --> 08:54.776 [SPEAKER_06]: So, what's starting at the beginning? 08:55.782 --> 09:02.784 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny McGee claims her age of innocence ends on Saturday, August 22nd, 1981. 09:06.965 --> 09:15.708 [SPEAKER_06]: Can you take us back to when you were 15 and what happened at the Dunes Club, leading up to that night? 09:17.297 --> 09:20.682 [SPEAKER_04]: There was a teen dance at my club, the Dunes Club, Benaraganset. 09:21.643 --> 09:23.546 [SPEAKER_04]: I was allowed to go because I was now 15. 09:24.066 --> 09:26.109 [SPEAKER_04]: My sister was just turning 17. 09:26.910 --> 09:33.760 [SPEAKER_04]: But you and have a car then, so a friend of ours, who didn't belong to the club, we took us a guest, Claudia, drove us to the Dunes Club. 09:35.019 --> 09:39.983 [SPEAKER_06]: Today, Claudia confirms she drove Penny and her sister to the party that night. 09:40.583 --> 09:46.648 [SPEAKER_04]: My sister in Claudia were a little bit older, so they were sneaking beers in the bath house, or by the cabanas. 09:47.109 --> 09:48.290 [SPEAKER_04]: I got separated from them. 09:48.810 --> 09:50.752 [SPEAKER_04]: So I was alone mingling. 09:51.492 --> 09:58.058 [SPEAKER_04]: And then two of my guy friends that I've known since I was young said, oh, we're going to go pick up. 09:58.458 --> 10:00.560 [SPEAKER_04]: And I can't remember the names of who was in the car. 10:01.160 --> 10:01.901 [SPEAKER_04]: I remember it was 10:03.529 --> 10:06.871 [SPEAKER_04]: car, and it was a black jetter with a red stripe. 10:08.232 --> 10:09.133 [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, sure. 10:10.033 --> 10:15.957 [SPEAKER_04]: He's a pit and patio, which is a pizza, place, which is right behind the Nargenza police and two minutes from the club. 10:17.418 --> 10:22.481 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny says that's when the back door opens, and a guy she's never seen before gets in. 10:23.061 --> 10:29.505 [SPEAKER_06]: It's a 17-year young man who we're calling J, as in Initial J, throughout the series. 10:34.123 --> 10:39.145 [SPEAKER_04]: never laid eyes on him before, never was introduced to him, nothing. 10:40.565 --> 10:45.807 [SPEAKER_04]: So, it's about five-ten, these Jewish dark-skinned, dark hair. 10:46.728 --> 10:47.828 [SPEAKER_04]: I would say a good-looking guy. 10:48.468 --> 10:49.769 [SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't say drop-to-gorgeous. 10:51.209 --> 11:00.133 [SPEAKER_04]: So, we drove, depicting patio, picked up, whoever we picked up, which I can't remember. 11:04.963 --> 11:06.984 [SPEAKER_04]: And we drove back to the club. 11:08.504 --> 11:12.906 [SPEAKER_04]: And we were getting out and got in the driver's seat. 11:12.926 --> 11:14.927 [SPEAKER_04]: He said, oh, I'll drive you down to the other entrance. 11:15.007 --> 11:15.767 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, no, I'm fine. 11:16.687 --> 11:18.388 [SPEAKER_04]: He grabbed my hands and no, come, I'll drive you down there. 11:20.229 --> 11:27.051 [SPEAKER_04]: He ended up driving to the tennis courts, which is at the far end of the parking lot. 11:27.091 --> 11:27.631 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's dark. 11:28.011 --> 11:29.272 [SPEAKER_04]: They didn't have lights down there. 11:29.792 --> 11:31.973 [SPEAKER_04]: And obviously, the tennis courts weren't lit at that time. 11:33.684 --> 11:46.870 [SPEAKER_04]: I used to borrow clothes from my sister, and I was wearing her green and white cotton shirts of sleeves in a pair of white jeans. 11:48.771 --> 11:49.451 [SPEAKER_04]: It was fast. 11:51.772 --> 11:58.915 [SPEAKER_04]: He grabbed me and flipped me over, so I was on the bottom in the front seat. 12:00.055 --> 12:01.056 [SPEAKER_04]: My back was on the seats. 12:02.760 --> 12:08.201 [SPEAKER_04]: My head's on the driver's side, and he shoved my head in between the door in the seat. 12:09.942 --> 12:18.624 [SPEAKER_04]: Hold my pants down, didn't touch me physically, didn't kiss me, it wasn't, like, let's make out. 12:19.964 --> 12:21.345 [SPEAKER_04]: He was there to get what he wanted. 12:23.265 --> 12:28.986 [SPEAKER_04]: He pulled my pants and my underwear, and he shoved his penis in my vagina. 12:34.102 --> 12:42.445 [SPEAKER_04]: I remember it was painful, I froze and there's a lot of different ways that women react as you know. 12:42.725 --> 12:48.648 [SPEAKER_04]: They scream, they fight, I was, I just froze, I didn't know what was going on. 12:50.629 --> 12:57.591 [SPEAKER_04]: I had little experience with guys, I buds for breasts, I didn't have my carry-it yet, I wasn't a menstruating yet. 12:58.852 --> 13:01.893 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think he put a condom in, I can't remember. 13:06.496 --> 13:11.658 [SPEAKER_04]: He pulled out, and he says, I'm going back to the dance. 13:13.218 --> 13:15.299 [SPEAKER_04]: He got out of the car and left. 13:18.820 --> 13:21.501 [SPEAKER_04]: I was there, left alone in the dark by myself. 13:22.662 --> 13:24.322 [SPEAKER_04]: I immediately pulled up my pants, I was bleeding. 13:25.123 --> 13:27.784 [SPEAKER_04]: A lot. 13:27.804 --> 13:31.205 [SPEAKER_04]: I tried to gather myself together and look normal. 13:32.177 --> 13:34.979 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and pulled my pants up, pulled my shirt down. 13:36.680 --> 13:39.541 [SPEAKER_04]: And luckily it was dark, so if there was blood, no, you know, nobody could see. 13:41.162 --> 13:44.044 [SPEAKER_04]: My sister, she saw me coming out of the car. 13:44.984 --> 13:46.625 [SPEAKER_04]: Then that's when I tried to walk around. 13:46.645 --> 13:48.467 [SPEAKER_04]: And she's like, Penny, we gotta go. 13:49.867 --> 13:54.530 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't go back into the dance and Claudia drove us home. 13:57.992 --> 13:59.493 [SPEAKER_04]: We had to tell our parents when we got home. 14:00.072 --> 14:01.454 [SPEAKER_04]: We weren't allowed to stay out that late. 14:01.494 --> 14:03.336 [SPEAKER_04]: It was, I don't know, maybe 9.30 or 10. 14:03.356 --> 14:05.879 [SPEAKER_04]: I went to the bathroom. 14:06.820 --> 14:07.961 [SPEAKER_04]: I wiped all the blood off. 14:08.982 --> 14:10.924 [SPEAKER_04]: But my sister's white pants were bloodied. 14:11.465 --> 14:14.789 [SPEAKER_04]: So I threw them under my bed thinking I could wash them when she wasn't around. 14:16.362 --> 14:25.556 [SPEAKER_06]: We contacted Jay and invited him to participate in this podcast, including an opportunity to respond to 40 detailed questions and or provide a statement. 14:26.096 --> 14:30.383 [SPEAKER_06]: His attorney responded with this statement where we've changed her client's name to Jay. 14:31.444 --> 14:40.968 [SPEAKER_06]: Jay emphatically denies any and all allegations of sexual misconduct related to the alleged victims you referenced, including Penelope McGee and anyone else. 14:41.748 --> 14:49.751 [SPEAKER_06]: At no time did Jay engage in non-consensual sexual contact with anyone and any suggestion to the contrary is false and defamatory. 14:50.431 --> 14:55.893 [SPEAKER_06]: Jay has never been arrested for charged with or convicted of rape or any form of sexual assault. 14:56.774 --> 14:59.695 [SPEAKER_06]: Back to Penny and what she says happened the next day. 15:01.027 --> 15:05.691 [SPEAKER_04]: I woke up and I had a babysitting job, which actually was good because I didn't have to go to the club. 15:06.592 --> 15:06.792 [SPEAKER_04]: Right? 15:08.454 --> 15:10.195 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember seeing him again there. 15:10.636 --> 15:11.096 [SPEAKER_04]: That's summer. 15:14.019 --> 15:16.741 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know exactly when I knew he told people. 15:17.902 --> 15:23.027 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny claims she finds out through mutual friends that Jay was bragging about having sex with her. 15:24.108 --> 15:26.190 [SPEAKER_04]: So we would go to parties and 15:28.408 --> 15:31.371 [SPEAKER_04]: He would sort of, look for me, you know, find me. 15:33.293 --> 15:34.614 [SPEAKER_04]: He was very strange. 15:34.674 --> 15:35.394 [SPEAKER_04]: He was gruff. 15:35.995 --> 15:41.000 [SPEAKER_04]: You could tell he had a chip on his shoulder, but he always had a skull on his face. 15:41.700 --> 15:46.404 [SPEAKER_04]: We always had a jeans and a jeans jacket on and a polo shirt, don't be MW. 15:50.028 --> 15:53.191 [SPEAKER_04]: I think this is the night I've really found out that people knew. 15:54.728 --> 15:58.131 [SPEAKER_04]: I was at a party, I don't know where it was at that point. 15:58.671 --> 15:59.652 [SPEAKER_04]: I was probably with his friends. 16:00.713 --> 16:03.375 [SPEAKER_04]: His brother was standing by himself, drinking a beer. 16:04.436 --> 16:12.382 [SPEAKER_04]: I just happened to walk by him and under his breath, he went, pig, enough for me to hear it. 16:14.444 --> 16:15.745 [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh my God, he knows. 16:17.586 --> 16:19.407 [SPEAKER_04]: If he knows, everybody knows. 16:25.344 --> 16:29.206 [SPEAKER_04]: reliving that night, what did I do wrong, did I do something? 16:30.767 --> 16:35.369 [SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't per kosher's girl, I was still reading Nancy drew books. 16:36.550 --> 16:45.135 [SPEAKER_04]: That devastated me in a way, and I was like, God, now I'm the slut, the pig, and that's what it turned out to be. 16:54.139 --> 16:56.441 [SPEAKER_06]: He would come up to me and ask me when my sister was at a party. 16:56.481 --> 16:57.441 [SPEAKER_03]: So he knew why he wasn't. 16:57.782 --> 16:58.642 [SPEAKER_06]: That's Jennifer. 16:59.022 --> 17:01.204 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny's older and only sibling. 17:01.624 --> 17:02.805 [SPEAKER_06]: He was just really scary. 17:03.525 --> 17:04.946 [SPEAKER_06]: I always kept a distance from him. 17:05.727 --> 17:10.190 [SPEAKER_06]: Jennifer says she remembers some of the details of the night Penny says she was assaulted. 17:11.038 --> 17:25.752 [SPEAKER_03]: I started hanging out with these girls for bonnet shores who went to my high school, and they used to tell me stories about him about how evil he is, and all these women that he's slept with, the reputation he had, and, you know, to stay away from him. 17:28.995 --> 17:31.638 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about the night at the dunes club. 17:32.744 --> 17:34.585 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know I don't know my biggest memory of that night? 17:35.085 --> 17:35.765 [SPEAKER_03]: That's spring. 17:36.045 --> 17:37.286 [SPEAKER_03]: That was working for a time. 17:37.586 --> 17:39.887 [SPEAKER_03]: And I finally lost all my baby thought. 17:39.987 --> 17:41.948 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was skinny for the first time. 17:42.308 --> 17:43.728 [SPEAKER_03]: But that I was able to be a certain thing. 17:43.789 --> 17:45.249 [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, it was in high school. 17:45.649 --> 17:48.250 [SPEAKER_03]: And I bought myself a pair of white cow and Klein jeans. 17:48.671 --> 17:51.031 [SPEAKER_03]: This was the days when Brooke Shields and the Calvins. 17:52.232 --> 17:54.433 [SPEAKER_03]: That night she wanted to borrow my jeans. 17:54.873 --> 18:00.615 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, OK. And I just remember a couple of days later, going in the laundry to get them. 18:00.735 --> 18:01.736 [SPEAKER_03]: And they were full of blood. 18:02.923 --> 18:05.885 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was furious, you know what I mean? 18:06.285 --> 18:07.986 [SPEAKER_03]: Those are my prized white jeans. 18:09.528 --> 18:12.149 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know when I found out what happened. 18:12.169 --> 18:20.095 [SPEAKER_03]: I just, you know, of course I yelled at what did you do to my jeans, what happened, and so I fell, I don't remember what she said. 18:21.155 --> 18:28.440 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember finding out what happened a hard found out that he had sexually assaulted her. 18:29.081 --> 18:30.702 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the word we used to fact then was right. 18:32.697 --> 18:36.140 [SPEAKER_04]: Just, you know, that's what it was she just turned 15 years old. 18:39.823 --> 18:41.224 [SPEAKER_06]: And did she seem off? 18:41.244 --> 18:44.166 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, did anything stand out to you about her response? 18:45.087 --> 18:48.990 [SPEAKER_03]: There's going to come for my sister to keep things to herself, especially things like that. 18:51.852 --> 18:53.313 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's his house. 18:53.634 --> 18:55.095 [SPEAKER_06]: Yep, so we're very close. 18:56.243 --> 19:01.087 [SPEAKER_06]: It was we're outside the dunes club with Penny where she points out Jay's old house. 19:01.948 --> 19:05.170 [SPEAKER_06]: It's so close to the club that we can see it from the parking lot. 19:05.511 --> 19:08.873 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can literally like his parents are right there, right there. 19:11.976 --> 19:16.820 [SPEAKER_04]: So we got out of the car here and I don't know which way he walked because I was still in. 19:16.860 --> 19:17.120 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow. 19:18.281 --> 19:19.962 [SPEAKER_04]: And I waited for him to get out of sight. 19:20.042 --> 19:21.884 [SPEAKER_04]: There was really dark. 19:22.284 --> 19:22.564 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 19:22.764 --> 19:23.004 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. 19:24.750 --> 19:26.491 [SPEAKER_04]: There was nobody in this parking lot. 19:27.492 --> 19:31.835 [SPEAKER_04]: It was teenage of party, so parents would drop in kids off. 19:32.935 --> 19:37.338 [SPEAKER_04]: One thing that I do remember, and then I can never listen to and get out of my head. 19:37.738 --> 19:42.862 [SPEAKER_04]: And by the time they turned around, got to there, and the guys turned out super free came on the way. 19:42.902 --> 19:46.864 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's very loud, very loud, and it was super free. 19:47.745 --> 19:49.126 [SPEAKER_04]: And there's something really strange. 19:52.957 --> 19:55.819 [SPEAKER_04]: went to the police in there again. 19:56.560 --> 19:57.681 [SPEAKER_04]: Superficus on the radio. 19:58.421 --> 19:59.602 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god. 20:00.062 --> 20:02.384 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh that would have freaked me right out. 20:02.404 --> 20:03.045 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh you know what I did? 20:03.945 --> 20:04.866 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you sing along to it? 20:05.186 --> 20:06.627 [SPEAKER_04]: I listened to a whole bad game song. 20:06.647 --> 20:07.368 [SPEAKER_04]: Good for you. 20:07.388 --> 20:08.409 [SPEAKER_04]: And I said no. 20:08.729 --> 20:10.390 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to do this anymore. 20:10.410 --> 20:11.731 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to turn it off. 20:12.112 --> 20:12.432 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 20:13.192 --> 20:13.873 [SPEAKER_04]: Wasn't it a sign? 20:15.354 --> 20:16.475 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think I was like you knew what. 20:17.567 --> 20:20.048 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not over this, but I'm going to do something about this. 20:20.748 --> 20:22.069 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we're in the parking lot. 20:22.269 --> 20:26.070 [SPEAKER_06]: I asked Penny where she saw her sister that night in 1981. 20:29.111 --> 20:30.692 [SPEAKER_04]: Where did you see her sister after? 20:34.513 --> 20:36.174 [SPEAKER_04]: She saw me getting under the car. 20:36.314 --> 20:38.675 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm getting a little confused here. 20:38.695 --> 20:40.955 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you drove that. 20:42.236 --> 20:42.696 [SPEAKER_04]: You're here? 20:44.217 --> 20:53.341 [SPEAKER_06]: More than 40 years later, the exact details can still be fuzzy, but what's crystal clear for Penny is the aftermath. 20:53.361 --> 20:57.563 [SPEAKER_04]: I knelt down in my bed on beside my bed every night in Prade. 20:59.044 --> 21:02.465 [SPEAKER_04]: Every night, the first was I'm Prade that I was in Prade-Nine. 21:05.566 --> 21:10.449 [SPEAKER_04]: Now I didn't get my period until the following spring. 21:14.772 --> 21:19.836 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, look, we all had sex ad, I knew things, but I had never seen a penis. 21:21.096 --> 21:27.861 [SPEAKER_04]: And I, I just, I prayed a lot. 21:29.602 --> 21:32.965 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was ashamed because these rumors started. 21:35.767 --> 21:40.510 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't tell anybody in school, I didn't tell my parents, didn't tell my sister, but everybody knew. 21:41.410 --> 21:43.452 [SPEAKER_04]: Or in my perception, everybody knew. 21:44.941 --> 21:46.562 [SPEAKER_04]: People thought I had consensual sex. 21:52.607 --> 21:58.971 [SPEAKER_06]: So for the rest of her high school years, Penny says she just puts it behind her, pretending like it didn't happen. 21:59.652 --> 22:02.974 [SPEAKER_04]: More than anything she wants to be a normal teenager. 22:02.994 --> 22:06.537 [SPEAKER_04]: I made a lot of girlfriends, I was popular. 22:07.277 --> 22:09.479 [SPEAKER_04]: So I kept that facade. 22:10.708 --> 22:18.713 [SPEAKER_04]: That was the persona that I wanted to have, you know, fun and popular, go to the soccer games, do all this kind of stuff. 22:20.074 --> 22:22.515 [SPEAKER_04]: Deep down inside, I was ashamed. 22:23.736 --> 22:25.837 [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't tell anybody. 22:27.218 --> 22:30.000 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I dated, and I went out with him for two and a half years. 22:30.360 --> 22:31.381 [SPEAKER_04]: He was a love of my life. 22:32.601 --> 22:37.644 [SPEAKER_04]: It's almost as if I had regained sort of some, not stature, 22:38.703 --> 22:39.905 [SPEAKER_04]: some sense of decency. 22:40.025 --> 22:40.285 [SPEAKER_04]: Right? 22:40.946 --> 22:44.451 [SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't a slut anymore because I'm not spending the time sleeping with everybody. 22:44.611 --> 22:45.432 [SPEAKER_04]: I have a boyfriend. 22:46.894 --> 22:52.121 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny goes on to Skidmore College where she majors in American studies and minors in English. 22:53.000 --> 23:00.903 [SPEAKER_06]: Skidmore's a fancy private university in upstate New York with a reputation for spoiled rich kids getting housekeeping and laundry done for them. 23:01.524 --> 23:03.905 [SPEAKER_06]: But for Penny, that environment is nothing new. 23:04.425 --> 23:07.386 [SPEAKER_06]: Growing up, she was used to hobnobbing with wealthy people. 23:07.906 --> 23:12.328 [SPEAKER_06]: Her family wasn't always flush with cash, but looking as if they were was what mattered. 23:14.629 --> 23:19.211 [SPEAKER_04]: My mother was very, you know, she loved the label conscious, so somehow she made it work that 23:21.810 --> 23:28.614 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and that we did get to go to New York and stay at the Plaza, where I went from my 13th birthday and she bought me a dress at Bergdorf's. 23:29.474 --> 23:32.196 [SPEAKER_03]: We were always a financially unstable family. 23:33.216 --> 23:36.758 [SPEAKER_04]: My father, we never made money, it was just inheriting it. 23:37.739 --> 23:39.460 [SPEAKER_04]: His family were in parking garages. 23:40.380 --> 23:45.203 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of fighting in turmoil over the business, so my father eventually got kicked out 23:52.786 --> 23:57.228 [SPEAKER_06]: Did you feel like Stavis was important growing up to your family? 23:57.248 --> 24:00.750 [SPEAKER_06]: And my mother, yes, absolutely. 24:01.710 --> 24:07.313 [SPEAKER_03]: Not just monetary status, but having a prestigious job, as she used to say. 24:07.333 --> 24:10.715 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, she's the one that pushed me into a political career, which I didn't have a lot of a choice. 24:12.836 --> 24:16.437 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny's parents were Catholic and her mother worshiped the Kennedys. 24:17.218 --> 24:18.918 [SPEAKER_04]: My mother was what they call a golden girl. 24:18.938 --> 24:22.060 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, she worked for John F. Kennedy, you know, volunteered. 24:26.272 --> 24:27.233 [SPEAKER_04]: huge into the Kennedy's. 24:27.773 --> 24:31.436 [SPEAKER_04]: She was at his inauguration and all that and that was a big deal to her. 24:32.296 --> 24:35.239 [SPEAKER_04]: She worked for Patrick Kennedy when he came here to run for office. 24:36.219 --> 24:41.323 [SPEAKER_04]: Since we were in high school, it was Jennifer was going to marry a Kennedy and I was going to marry a wasp. 24:45.386 --> 24:50.810 [SPEAKER_06]: After college, Penny moves to Boston and works in the fundraising department at the Harvard School of Business. 24:51.470 --> 24:53.832 [SPEAKER_06]: She meets a guy who's starting a banking operation 24:55.762 --> 25:00.564 [SPEAKER_04]: I flew over to Amsterdam, spent time there, went to Paris, and I was engaged with open three months. 25:01.425 --> 25:04.866 [SPEAKER_04]: He was really wonderful in charming, until we got to Ukraine. 25:05.247 --> 25:06.407 [SPEAKER_04]: He became horrible. 25:06.907 --> 25:07.908 [SPEAKER_04]: I broke off the engagement. 25:08.468 --> 25:09.389 [SPEAKER_04]: I gave him back the ring. 25:11.830 --> 25:13.891 [SPEAKER_04]: Penny says that's when she seeks help. 25:14.771 --> 25:18.293 [SPEAKER_04]: I started to see a therapist up in Boston, and 25:20.353 --> 25:26.595 [SPEAKER_04]: The reason I went was, how could I, why am I getting abused by men? 25:28.135 --> 25:28.916 [SPEAKER_04]: What am I doing? 25:29.756 --> 25:38.118 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, but I feel as if I'm allowing it, I don't know why, what is about me that I'm giving off that they think they can abuse me? 25:39.299 --> 25:45.701 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I said, you know, I've never told anybody this, but I was raped when I was 15. 25:47.977 --> 25:50.339 [SPEAKER_04]: And he was the first person in the, no, the story. 25:54.143 --> 25:58.366 [SPEAKER_06]: That confession comes just before Penny meets the man who will become her husband. 25:59.147 --> 26:01.749 [SPEAKER_04]: So there was a woman named Margo Howard. 26:02.270 --> 26:03.291 [SPEAKER_04]: She was Andlander's daughter. 26:04.292 --> 26:05.913 [SPEAKER_04]: She called me up one day at the office. 26:06.594 --> 26:07.675 [SPEAKER_04]: She says, I have a guy for you. 26:08.285 --> 26:09.867 [SPEAKER_04]: I just met him at a dinner party. 26:09.887 --> 26:11.489 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sitting next to him. 26:11.609 --> 26:12.630 [SPEAKER_04]: He's too young for me. 26:12.650 --> 26:15.774 [SPEAKER_04]: Instead of he's older than you, Jewish guy. 26:16.134 --> 26:16.795 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I give you a number? 26:16.815 --> 26:17.055 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure. 26:17.196 --> 26:20.540 [SPEAKER_04]: Calls me at the office, says, do you want to go meet for Indian food? 26:21.160 --> 26:23.503 [SPEAKER_04]: So I tell Mark, I call Mark, I said we're having my date tonight. 26:23.643 --> 26:26.427 [SPEAKER_04]: And the last thing she says to me is good because don't wear heels. 26:30.958 --> 26:33.239 [SPEAKER_06]: That blind date is Andy Savitz. 26:33.800 --> 26:40.384 [SPEAKER_06]: He comes from a prominent and wealthy Jewish family in Boston, not the Wasp Penny's mother had hoped she'd marry. 26:40.864 --> 26:45.968 [SPEAKER_06]: And even though Penny is Catholic and taller than Andy, they have other things in common. 26:46.448 --> 26:51.431 [SPEAKER_04]: He was a short sort of nebiscuit Jewish guy but cute, and he was hilarious. 26:52.232 --> 26:53.092 [SPEAKER_04]: And he was smart. 26:53.472 --> 26:56.975 [SPEAKER_04]: He's the type of red in New Yorker, and we both were avid readers. 26:59.189 --> 27:07.157 [SPEAKER_06]: Andy is a road scholar, environmental consultant, and advised Michael Dukakis in his 1988 presidential campaign. 27:07.517 --> 27:12.942 [SPEAKER_00]: A son of Greek immigrants named Mike Dukakis to clear his candidacy for the presidency of the United States. 27:14.664 --> 27:20.669 [SPEAKER_06]: After Penny and Andy date for a few months, she goes down to Naples to stay with his parents who live there for the winter. 27:22.754 --> 27:27.918 [SPEAKER_04]: condo was being renovated and I was in the guest house, so it was all kosher. 27:28.679 --> 27:33.022 [SPEAKER_04]: I met them and he had this tiny little Jewish mother Adele. 27:33.362 --> 27:38.326 [SPEAKER_04]: She was like 4, 11, 90 pounds, you know, soaking wet and a father and they were just lovely. 27:39.467 --> 27:39.907 [SPEAKER_05]: Lovely. 27:40.708 --> 27:41.869 [SPEAKER_05]: They had if you weren't to us. 27:43.370 --> 27:47.313 [SPEAKER_04]: No, because Andy was 45 when he got married, he was the eldest. 27:48.014 --> 27:49.114 [SPEAKER_04]: The three younger all that married 27:52.129 --> 27:57.173 [SPEAKER_06]: After Penny and Andy get married in 1998, they go on to have three kids. 27:57.713 --> 28:06.240 [SPEAKER_06]: We'll go more into Penny's family in the next episode, but for now, we're going to fast forward 25 years to the summer of 2023. 28:07.401 --> 28:10.904 [SPEAKER_06]: At this point, Penny's been divorced from Andy for seven years. 28:11.524 --> 28:18.109 [SPEAKER_06]: She moves from Brookline, a posh Boston suburb where she lived for two decades, back to Rhode Island where she grew up. 28:19.046 --> 28:24.789 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny finds a house in Newport and gets a job working as a personal assistant to a prominent family and finance. 28:25.389 --> 28:27.831 [SPEAKER_06]: The ones who own Edith Wartens mansion on the water. 28:28.791 --> 28:33.654 [SPEAKER_06]: The pay is low and the hours are long, but at this point Penny's just happy to be working again. 28:34.214 --> 28:37.596 [SPEAKER_06]: The years have been tough on her and she's ready for some stability. 28:39.977 --> 28:42.678 [SPEAKER_06]: One summer night she's at the Dunes Club talking 28:45.237 --> 28:48.458 [SPEAKER_04]: And they were saying, wow, you moved back to Rhode Island. 28:48.758 --> 28:49.898 [SPEAKER_04]: This one just moved back. 28:50.038 --> 29:00.260 [SPEAKER_04]: So a group of us, people that moved away to New York, California, Boston, started buying V-choses and coming in the summer and some just moved back to Rhode Island. 29:01.160 --> 29:07.021 [SPEAKER_04]: And I came over for his sandwich or a pat trick, said, oh, butterhouse in Newport. 29:09.682 --> 29:13.343 [SPEAKER_06]: The same man, Penny alleged rape her when she was 15 years 29:15.280 --> 29:16.121 [SPEAKER_04]: I was like fuck. 29:17.462 --> 29:21.647 [SPEAKER_04]: So immediately I go home and I go go, and he's on street, a $4 million house. 29:22.307 --> 29:24.069 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a mile down the road for me. 29:25.511 --> 29:29.074 [SPEAKER_04]: My ex-fiance, say, from Ukraine, you know, we've have talked. 29:30.636 --> 29:33.238 [SPEAKER_04]: And if he moved down the street for me, I wouldn't have a problem. 29:34.380 --> 29:36.502 [SPEAKER_04]: But this just brought everything back. 29:38.392 --> 29:49.180 [SPEAKER_04]: My stomach was lurching, it was shaking, and I start Googling him, and then go on being verified and I find his phone number, and I texted him. 29:50.501 --> 29:57.546 [SPEAKER_04]: I went on chat, GBT, and I started looking up, what's the prison sentence for first degree sexual assault? 29:58.386 --> 30:04.210 [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a statute of limitations in Rhode Island on first degree sexual assault? 30:05.271 --> 30:05.511 [SPEAKER_04]: No. 30:08.841 --> 30:20.230 [SPEAKER_04]: Texted him, I copied the CHAPGBT, first degree sexual assault, prison term, and then I texted, I hope you have a good lawyer. 30:38.650 --> 30:42.995 [SPEAKER_04]: I went to the court as he tried to be in touch with you as he contacted you now. 30:43.015 --> 30:44.377 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we're not giving you a no contact. 30:45.118 --> 30:56.132 [SPEAKER_04]: Then I went back to the police and I said to the woman at the desk, I need to speak to a detective or an officer because a man that raped me is living in my own own in the street for me. 30:58.045 --> 31:02.028 [SPEAKER_04]: And I waited in a waited for 20 minutes, and he finally came down, and I was shaking. 31:02.048 --> 31:04.630 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, officer, this is what happened. 31:05.170 --> 31:06.832 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, he moved on mile down the street. 31:07.152 --> 31:11.855 [SPEAKER_04]: He said, well, you know we can't put any context order, and he saw how shaken I was. 31:11.875 --> 31:14.557 [SPEAKER_04]: And he said, look, ma'am, I will go to the house. 31:15.658 --> 31:17.940 [SPEAKER_04]: We went to the house right away. 31:19.274 --> 31:24.038 [SPEAKER_04]: And he called me, and he said, I went to the house, and they didn't. 31:24.058 --> 31:26.320 [SPEAKER_04]: The people that were there didn't know him. 31:27.141 --> 31:30.404 [SPEAKER_04]: I looked it up in his house as registered as a bed and breakfast. 31:31.645 --> 31:32.766 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think they were renters. 31:34.348 --> 31:35.449 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't know this at the time. 31:36.109 --> 31:37.931 [SPEAKER_04]: So I couldn't get a restraining order. 31:37.971 --> 31:39.372 [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't get a no contact order. 31:39.392 --> 31:43.856 [SPEAKER_04]: I picked up, I grabbed my car, drove over to the Narragans. 31:43.896 --> 31:44.377 [SPEAKER_04]: Please. 31:46.412 --> 31:52.536 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, I'm here to report a rape, and she looks to me, says your daughter, and I said no me. 31:57.200 --> 32:04.785 [SPEAKER_06]: In late June of 2023, Penny sits down with a detective and tells him her story which becomes an official incident report. 32:05.185 --> 32:06.446 [SPEAKER_04]: I gave him names of people to call. 32:06.466 --> 32:07.327 [SPEAKER_04]: They spoke to my sister. 32:07.347 --> 32:08.928 [SPEAKER_04]: They talked to the guy that owned the car. 32:09.930 --> 32:16.298 [SPEAKER_06]: When Narragantzett police called the brother of the alleged car owner, he confirms his parents always had Volkswagen's. 32:16.799 --> 32:20.503 [SPEAKER_06]: That's consistent with Penny's earlier description of the Black Jedi. 32:20.944 --> 32:25.790 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody was cooperative, but nobody could get them some solid information that they were remember anything. 32:26.591 --> 32:27.953 [SPEAKER_04]: But you know, it was 42 years later. 32:29.893 --> 32:31.194 [SPEAKER_06]: The detectives call Jay. 32:31.694 --> 32:38.057 [SPEAKER_06]: They hear back from his attorney who asks if the female is reporting first degree or third degree sexual assault. 32:38.658 --> 32:40.539 [SPEAKER_06]: The detectives says first degree. 32:41.139 --> 32:57.167 [SPEAKER_06]: To be clear in Rhode Island, first degree sexual assault involves sexual penetration with force or coercion, and third degree sexual assault is statutory rape, meeting an adult over 18 has sexual penetration with someone over 14 but under 16. 32:58.528 --> 33:06.072 [SPEAKER_06]: In Penny's witness statement, she calls it a statutory rape, but that's not accurate since J was 17 years old at the time. 33:07.172 --> 33:20.079 [SPEAKER_06]: Also, in 1981, the same year Penny claims her assault happened, Rhode Island updates its rape laws, so those definitions I just read of first degree and third degree are exactly what applied at the time. 33:21.340 --> 33:23.681 [SPEAKER_06]: J's attorney says he'll be speaking to his client 33:28.283 --> 33:33.965 [SPEAKER_06]: A month later, in August of 2023, Penny goes back to the Narragant's at Police Department. 33:34.505 --> 33:37.366 [SPEAKER_06]: She meets with a detective and head of the criminal division. 33:38.386 --> 33:40.367 [SPEAKER_04]: So they were taking this very seriously. 33:41.047 --> 33:44.788 [SPEAKER_04]: They sat down and they said, we just don't have enough, we believe you. 33:44.808 --> 33:46.269 [SPEAKER_04]: Because I said to them, you don't believe me. 33:46.289 --> 33:47.409 [SPEAKER_04]: He said, we believe you. 33:47.990 --> 33:52.131 [SPEAKER_04]: We just don't have enough probable cause to send this up to the AG's office. 33:53.451 --> 33:54.872 [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, what about if I got more women? 33:56.184 --> 33:59.205 [SPEAKER_04]: and they said to me, well, that could be probable cause. 33:59.885 --> 34:01.946 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's what I knew I needed to do. 34:02.026 --> 34:04.787 [SPEAKER_04]: I needed to go out and find the other women. 34:04.927 --> 34:06.347 [SPEAKER_04]: And I knew they were out there. 34:07.848 --> 34:15.791 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's when Penny remembers another incident she had heard about through the grapevine when she was in college, but she didn't know the details. 34:16.951 --> 34:19.652 [SPEAKER_04]: Cherry Clark kept on coming back to my mind. 34:20.961 --> 34:26.144 [SPEAKER_04]: As I never knew of somebody, it was always an incident that had that involved a girl in a car. 34:26.805 --> 34:27.185 [SPEAKER_04]: So I knew. 34:28.866 --> 34:34.130 [SPEAKER_14]: She died when she fell 15 feet off a footbridge in a park where she was attending a party with friends. 34:35.247 --> 34:45.691 [SPEAKER_06]: A freshman named Sherry Clark at the University of Colorado and Boulder had mysteriously died under a bridge after an off-campus sorority party in 1985. 34:46.191 --> 34:56.195 [SPEAKER_10]: The victim was a pledge here at the Kappa Alpha Theta sorority of the CU campus, Boulder County Sheriff's Investigators tell us it was at a sorority party Friday night that the victim was last seen. 34:58.656 --> 35:00.196 [SPEAKER_06]: The last person to see her? 35:01.157 --> 35:01.477 [SPEAKER_06]: Jay. 35:05.236 --> 35:07.757 [SPEAKER_04]: I then did my research. 35:08.177 --> 35:10.678 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, I want to know about this girl. 35:11.559 --> 35:13.660 [SPEAKER_04]: I could not find anything with his name on it. 35:15.060 --> 35:16.361 [SPEAKER_04]: Searched and searched and searched. 35:17.341 --> 35:19.782 [SPEAKER_04]: I locked myself in my house for a weekend. 35:20.182 --> 35:22.583 [SPEAKER_04]: In my pajamas, one pizza, Diet Coke, and cigarettes. 35:23.083 --> 35:24.744 [SPEAKER_04]: It's all I did for a weekend. 35:27.385 --> 35:31.727 [SPEAKER_04]: And I finally found the article on Cherry Clarke. 35:33.985 --> 35:42.389 [SPEAKER_06]: A Denver Post article from October of 1985 reports that investigators initially treat Sherry Clark's death as a homicide. 35:43.229 --> 35:52.794 [SPEAKER_06]: It says a 21-year-old fraternity member, Jay, leaves the party with Clark but returns alone and police say he's the last person to see her alive. 35:53.574 --> 36:00.538 [SPEAKER_06]: But the articles say Clark's injuries are consistent with a fall from the bridge and Jay's account matches other witnesses. 36:01.680 --> 36:12.908 [SPEAKER_06]: In her letter, Jeeza Turnie tells us, quote, Jee has consistently and unequivocally denied any role in the death of Ms. Clark, which was a tragic accident unrelated to his actions. 36:13.729 --> 36:22.735 [SPEAKER_06]: She says he also quote, emphatically denies any and all allegations of sexual misconduct related to the alleged victims, including Sherry Clark. 36:26.738 --> 36:30.661 [SPEAKER_04]: I knew this now had turned into something different. 36:31.853 --> 36:33.394 [SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't just about me anymore. 36:34.595 --> 36:37.196 [SPEAKER_04]: It was about this girl who I have no idea how she died. 36:38.177 --> 36:39.138 [SPEAKER_04]: But I wanted to know. 36:40.038 --> 36:46.422 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny does some digging and finds contact info for Sherry's brother, Jason, who still lives in the bolder area. 36:47.062 --> 36:48.023 [SPEAKER_06]: She cold calls him. 36:48.303 --> 36:50.725 [SPEAKER_04]: So soon as I said, you don't know me. 36:50.985 --> 36:52.426 [SPEAKER_04]: Penny McGee, please don't hang up on me. 36:52.726 --> 36:53.326 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you know the name? 36:54.367 --> 36:56.008 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god, I haven't heard that name in 20 years. 36:57.189 --> 36:58.229 [SPEAKER_04]: Great me when I was 15. 36:59.150 --> 37:00.070 [SPEAKER_04]: He said, how can I help you? 37:00.331 --> 37:00.851 [SPEAKER_04]: What can I do? 37:01.820 --> 37:06.506 [SPEAKER_04]: And we spent three hours on the phone, and he told me all about the Sherry case. 37:07.767 --> 37:14.455 [SPEAKER_06]: Jason sends penny thousands of pages of police interviews, crime scene photos, transcripts, and more. 37:14.475 --> 37:16.758 [SPEAKER_04]: It was just a love fest between the two of us. 37:16.798 --> 37:17.759 [SPEAKER_04]: He says, why want to help you? 37:17.779 --> 37:18.941 [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, but I want to help you. 37:20.315 --> 37:24.537 [SPEAKER_06]: So Jason and Penny decide to pair up and start their own investigation. 37:25.238 --> 37:33.082 [SPEAKER_06]: Jason once bolder law enforcement to reopen his sister's case because he believes they never properly looked at Jay's possible involvement. 37:33.442 --> 37:39.165 [SPEAKER_06]: Penny hopes that if that happens, it will help her rape claim against Jay that happened four years earlier. 37:41.186 --> 37:47.610 [SPEAKER_04]: We had realized after several conversations probably very quickly that 37:48.987 --> 38:00.403 [SPEAKER_04]: Sherry's case and my case were inextricably linked, right, my case could get in person and that was our ultimate joint goal. 38:00.423 --> 38:02.086 [SPEAKER_04]: We were going to get this bastard. 38:05.010 --> 38:13.836 [SPEAKER_06]: They put together a monster spreadsheet of anyone who might have gone to high school or college with Jay, family members, friends of Cherries and more. 38:14.456 --> 38:19.700 [SPEAKER_06]: They sent out a slew of emails, including the one I got from Penny that included this line. 38:20.381 --> 38:32.409 [SPEAKER_04]: During my own personal investigation, I've uncovered a distressing pattern of Mr. Envolved in numerous sexual assaults, spanning over 40 years, across Rhode Island and Colorado. 38:35.928 --> 38:44.532 [SPEAKER_06]: But just months after Penny starts this crusade, she gets a devastating phone call from the Rhode Island Attorney General's office about her criminal complaint. 38:44.992 --> 38:47.113 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't pick up soon enough so he left a voicemail. 38:48.253 --> 38:54.536 [SPEAKER_11]: Miss Sabbath, I wanted to give you the news over the phone that we concluded our in-house review. 38:54.916 --> 39:02.259 [SPEAKER_11]: And we've come to the same conclusion as the narrow-againsted police that the prosecution would not be successful in this matter. 39:04.067 --> 39:15.650 [SPEAKER_06]: The Assistant AG refers to Penny as Miss Savits, her married name, but she filed for complaint as Penelope McGee, her maiden name, which she's been using for over a decade. 39:16.070 --> 39:18.271 [SPEAKER_04]: I called him right back, and I went ballistic. 39:18.851 --> 39:20.611 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, what are you talking about? 39:22.252 --> 39:25.312 [SPEAKER_04]: I said, how could you not connect the dots? 39:26.353 --> 39:27.993 [SPEAKER_04]: And what have you been doing for four months? 39:29.338 --> 39:30.379 [SPEAKER_04]: reviewing my case? 39:30.399 --> 39:32.921 [SPEAKER_04]: I said this is absolute bullshit. 39:33.361 --> 39:37.143 [SPEAKER_04]: With all due respect Miss McGee, now at this point he was calling Miss McGee. 39:37.704 --> 39:40.426 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's when Penny says the light bulb goes off. 39:40.826 --> 39:45.589 [SPEAKER_06]: The assistant AG had Google Penny, and that's why he was calling her Miss Sadett. 39:46.170 --> 39:51.714 [SPEAKER_04]: He said they're not crossing cuteness because they don't think I'll be a credible witness because I'm like criminal case. 39:53.375 --> 39:57.598 [SPEAKER_04]: Once again, it was like this criminal case is ruining my life. 40:06.837 --> 40:12.501 [SPEAKER_06]: It's often said that there are no perfect victims, especially when it comes to sexual assault. 40:13.302 --> 40:17.045 [SPEAKER_06]: And in this case, Penny is far from me, perfect victim. 40:18.046 --> 40:27.033 [SPEAKER_06]: She's a recovering alcoholic, she's been institutionalized for mental illness, and even had a full blown affair with a married man which led to her divorce. 40:28.282 --> 40:37.648 [SPEAKER_06]: But what I haven't told you yet about Penny McGee, is that when I meet her in April 2024, she's just months away from going on trial. 40:38.348 --> 40:42.031 [SPEAKER_06]: In a case so explosive, it makes it on to court TV. 40:44.192 --> 40:53.518 [SPEAKER_04]: A prominent Massachusetts mother, Penelope Penny McGee, is facing manslaughter charges in the death of her ex-husband Andrew Savage five years ago. 40:55.988 --> 41:02.071 [SPEAKER_06]: buckle up, because the deeper we dig into this story, the more unbelievable it becomes. 41:02.791 --> 41:13.516 [SPEAKER_06]: When we first started, we thought this story would mostly focus on Penny McGee as both a victim of alleged sexual assault and a defendant accused of the death of her ex-husband. 41:14.216 --> 41:17.358 [SPEAKER_06]: It turns out that was just the tip of the iceberg. 41:42.454 --> 41:45.216 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I'll ever be able to handle a trial. 41:45.836 --> 41:48.438 [SPEAKER_04]: I honestly would rather kill myself than go on trial. 41:48.798 --> 41:50.519 [SPEAKER_04]: That was nothing out of the ordinary. 41:50.839 --> 41:52.541 [SPEAKER_10]: Well, there was one thing out of the ordinary. 41:52.581 --> 41:53.561 [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody ended up dead. 41:55.122 --> 41:57.104 [SPEAKER_07]: I remember hearing her dad scream. 41:57.124 --> 41:58.164 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't ever forget it. 41:58.564 --> 42:01.286 [SPEAKER_07]: His initial reaction was, oh my god, she's been beaten. 42:01.526 --> 42:04.768 [SPEAKER_07]: And I still can hear him yelling that through the door. 42:05.249 --> 42:07.770 [SPEAKER_09]: I've never had a murder suspect or anybody 42:12.642 --> 42:14.103 [SPEAKER_10]: I've always suspected him. 42:14.404 --> 42:19.508 [SPEAKER_10]: He drove up the canyon half sex with her, and he just leaves her there. 42:19.808 --> 42:21.290 [SPEAKER_10]: What kind of a person does that? 42:21.650 --> 42:24.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you saying that large number of people feel that this was foul play? 42:24.392 --> 42:25.493 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the people that know him. 42:25.733 --> 42:28.315 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, what ones do you the most adopt this particular case? 42:28.656 --> 42:31.138 [SPEAKER_18]: That it, in fact, is a homicide. 42:33.041 --> 42:43.507 [SPEAKER_18]: he basically just got on top of me and did what he wanted early and it was quick, it was just vile and not consensual at all. 42:43.927 --> 42:45.588 [SPEAKER_05]: I would find him lying and wait for me. 42:46.028 --> 42:54.072 [SPEAKER_05]: In these, you know, like just literally waiting around a corner from where I would get out of class and he sort of pushing me against the wall. 42:54.412 --> 42:55.993 [SPEAKER_02]: They pushed me just the wall. 42:56.033 --> 42:57.754 [SPEAKER_02]: He slept in the paint and then he was at 43:01.856 --> 43:23.279 [SPEAKER_02]: He like threw me onto the bed and like at this point he was like completely naked and he like shoved my head down to like You know, she was area whatever and I mean that just completely repulsed me because that was I mean That's like the only time that it ever helped me He didn't like it's the rest of my life Having that feeling that a man could overpower me force me to do things I didn't want to do 43:24.807 --> 43:33.749 [SPEAKER_05]: Is it typical for you to ask to have records expunged within two or three days of a suspect being released from custody? 43:34.149 --> 43:35.849 [SPEAKER_09]: We're very much by the book. 43:36.249 --> 43:39.190 [SPEAKER_09]: That's why I'm surprised by what you told me. 43:39.870 --> 43:41.110 [SPEAKER_09]: And that really upsets me. 43:41.430 --> 43:43.751 [SPEAKER_09]: Because some of that evidence has gone. 43:45.731 --> 43:49.392 [SPEAKER_05]: It just didn't make sense to us how quickly it all wrapped up. 43:49.787 --> 43:51.648 [SPEAKER_07]: Right, I don't know how to defend that, actually. 43:51.888 --> 43:54.709 [SPEAKER_05]: But that didn't raise a flag, him having a club in his... 43:55.089 --> 43:55.950 [SPEAKER_05]: I would've thought so. 43:56.310 --> 43:57.711 [SPEAKER_05]: And it was locked as a weapon. 43:58.091 --> 43:59.812 [SPEAKER_08]: She'd be unconscious, not moving. 44:00.032 --> 44:01.292 [SPEAKER_08]: She's not crawling around. 44:01.572 --> 44:05.394 [SPEAKER_08]: So how does she get in that face down position with the legs crossed? 44:05.954 --> 44:08.035 [SPEAKER_09]: On the other hand, if you throw her over the bridge... 44:08.536 --> 44:09.036 [SPEAKER_09]: It's different. 44:09.336 --> 44:10.737 [SPEAKER_09]: You just said, grow her over the bridge. 44:10.937 --> 44:11.337 [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know. 44:11.477 --> 44:12.998 [SPEAKER_09]: I, I assume that's what happened. 44:13.358 --> 44:15.879 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm really concerned now that it wasn't an accident. 44:16.239 --> 44:16.439 [SPEAKER_16]: What? 44:16.679 --> 44:19.321 [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know, someone she was placed down there potentially. 44:19.381 --> 44:19.781 [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know. 44:20.281 --> 44:21.021 [SPEAKER_16]: I don't like it. 44:21.101 --> 44:21.602 [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know. 44:24.683 --> 44:26.624 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think he's still a threat to women? 44:26.844 --> 44:27.565 [SPEAKER_04]: He's a predator. 44:27.645 --> 44:29.266 [SPEAKER_04]: He is a sexual predator. 44:29.546 --> 44:30.686 [SPEAKER_04]: And he needs to be punished. 44:31.327 --> 44:32.307 [SPEAKER_09]: I have no words. 44:32.367 --> 44:34.588 [SPEAKER_09]: I never wanted people to get away with something like this. 44:35.008 --> 44:36.329 [SPEAKER_06]: Nothing was resolved. 44:36.669 --> 44:38.130 [SPEAKER_06]: Justice was never served. 44:38.450 --> 44:39.691 [SPEAKER_06]: And they deserved justice. 44:43.037 --> 44:44.518 [SPEAKER_06]: Ms. McGee, would you stand please? 44:45.659 --> 44:51.842 [SPEAKER_07]: On a manslaughter, regarding when the area brought you reckless conduct, after a journey. 44:56.112 --> 45:10.576 [SPEAKER_12]: You should know that Alisa Rosen, the executive producer of the Gilded Rage, who you heard on this episode, is the same Alisa Rosen who called me up one day back in 2020 and said, you want to do a podcast and bam, Queen of the Con was porn. 45:10.836 --> 45:14.858 [SPEAKER_12]: The Gilded Rage is her latest series and wow, it's just amazing. 45:15.298 --> 45:19.639 [SPEAKER_12]: If you want to hear more episodes, just search the Gilded Rage wherever you get your podcasts. 45:19.939 --> 45:29.727 [SPEAKER_12]: Remember to include the in the gilded rage or just go to patreon.com slash the gilded rage and subscribe to binge all episodes right now. 45:30.448 --> 45:42.318 [SPEAKER_06]: If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault, confidential help is available through the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 800-656-Hope or online at rain-are-a-i-n-n.org. 45:50.297 --> 45:54.619 [SPEAKER_06]: If you want to go deeper into this story, join our Patreon, The Gilded Rage. 45:55.040 --> 45:58.561 [SPEAKER_06]: There, you'll be able to binge episodes without waiting week to week. 45:58.782 --> 46:07.626 [SPEAKER_06]: Get behind the scenes details from our investigation, extra information, interviews, and documents from our files that only members get access to. 46:08.307 --> 46:14.210 [SPEAKER_06]: Go to patreon.com forward slash The Gilded Rage or click on the link in the show notes for access. 46:17.369 --> 46:18.989 [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you so much for listening. 46:19.490 --> 46:25.872 [SPEAKER_06]: Please follow the Gilded Rage on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 46:26.672 --> 46:32.093 [SPEAKER_06]: Leaving a review and five-star rating helps others find this show and we appreciate your support. 46:33.274 --> 46:43.637 [SPEAKER_06]: If you'd like to reach out to us, either direct message us on Instagram at the Gilded Rage Podcast or email us at the GildedRagePod at gmail.com. 46:44.497 --> 46:54.606 [SPEAKER_06]: The Gilded Rage is a production of AYR Media hosted by me, Lauren Maloy, executive producers, Lauren Maloy, and Eliza Rosen for AYR Media. 46:55.347 --> 47:04.015 [SPEAKER_06]: Written by Eliza Rosen and Lauren Maloy, editing by Tristan Bankston, Kenny Kusyak, and George Drapinghix. 47:05.230 --> 47:30.767 [SPEAKER_06]: Consulting Producer, Sasha Alpert, Law Enforcement Consultant, James Kohler, Law Enforcement Support, Ed Pellitier, Coordinator for AYR Media, Andy Levine, Archival Support, Nolan Peacock, mixed by Kenny Kuziak and George Drapinghix, mastered by Cameron Taggi, audio engineer, Justin Longerbeam,