WEBVTT 00:01.857 --> 00:09.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast, where we explore what it means to live on purpose as a father and how legacy starts at home. 00:09.921 --> 00:12.242 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Justin Whittmorely, and I'm Brooke Moser. 00:12.562 --> 00:16.644 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be your hosts, and we desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope. 00:17.164 --> 00:20.866 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening. 00:20.906 --> 00:22.967 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the intentional fatherhood podcast. 00:23.627 --> 00:23.827 [SPEAKER_02]: What? 00:24.488 --> 00:26.489 [SPEAKER_02]: You're just gonna introduce without asking? 00:27.537 --> 00:29.318 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought we were going to do a good thing. 00:29.338 --> 00:30.459 [SPEAKER_02]: I said me your permission. 00:30.820 --> 00:31.560 [SPEAKER_02]: This is cool. 00:31.841 --> 00:32.561 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, okay. 00:32.681 --> 00:33.242 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just say this. 00:34.102 --> 00:34.963 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm willing to start over. 00:35.303 --> 00:35.804 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's start over. 00:36.785 --> 00:39.907 [SPEAKER_02]: What would you like to do to see who gets to enter today? 00:40.187 --> 00:43.090 [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, you take it and we're going to have to talk about this later. 00:43.970 --> 00:46.032 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're going to talk about this later. 00:46.112 --> 00:47.173 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, let's do this. 00:47.553 --> 00:47.854 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what? 00:47.934 --> 00:49.055 [SPEAKER_02]: I liked the Siri one. 00:49.755 --> 00:50.195 [SPEAKER_02]: What was that? 00:50.235 --> 00:51.316 [SPEAKER_02]: Was it hadn't you? 00:51.336 --> 00:51.396 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 00:51.416 --> 00:52.657 [SPEAKER_02]: You've already started. 00:52.697 --> 00:53.458 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing hints and tips. 00:53.918 --> 00:54.199 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 00:54.219 --> 00:55.220 [SPEAKER_02]: Which one do you want this time? 00:57.338 --> 00:59.118 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to make sure this is up. 00:59.158 --> 00:59.878 [SPEAKER_01]: So we know, let's go. 00:59.898 --> 01:00.799 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to come on here. 01:00.859 --> 01:02.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody listening, root for me? 01:03.359 --> 01:03.939 [SPEAKER_01]: You said heads. 01:04.039 --> 01:04.559 [SPEAKER_01]: I said heads. 01:04.579 --> 01:05.119 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 01:05.139 --> 01:05.759 [SPEAKER_01]: It's on recording. 01:05.779 --> 01:06.259 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty clear. 01:06.380 --> 01:07.180 [SPEAKER_01]: Heads or tails? 01:10.820 --> 01:11.280 [SPEAKER_02]: Tails. 01:11.920 --> 01:12.781 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this it right there? 01:13.621 --> 01:13.801 [SPEAKER_02]: Miss. 01:13.821 --> 01:15.761 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it right there? 01:16.381 --> 01:16.861 [SPEAKER_02]: You were right. 01:16.921 --> 01:17.881 [SPEAKER_02]: Just continue that. 01:17.901 --> 01:18.282 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 01:18.362 --> 01:20.722 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the initial fatherhood podcast. 01:21.462 --> 01:25.463 [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, most of the time, we do some sort of silly 01:28.023 --> 01:30.604 [SPEAKER_02]: intro because Justin needs it. 01:30.745 --> 01:31.425 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's fine. 01:31.545 --> 01:35.707 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so we do that for him because competitions are where he feels valued and loved. 01:35.807 --> 01:37.007 [SPEAKER_02]: And I like serving you in that way. 01:37.127 --> 01:39.688 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't call competition if it's a random dude. 01:39.768 --> 01:40.909 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not about competing. 01:40.929 --> 01:43.070 [SPEAKER_01]: This is about luck of the draw. 01:43.090 --> 01:52.534 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, I need everybody not just to like subscribe and send a voice memo, but would you please send some voice memos of things that we can do to decide 01:56.035 --> 01:57.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, look, we're going to make arm wrestle for it. 01:57.656 --> 01:58.336 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll do it. 01:58.376 --> 01:59.697 [SPEAKER_02]: That would be you don't throw it for it. 01:59.717 --> 02:02.058 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you, this could get out of hand. 02:02.218 --> 02:04.579 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it could get out of the fun. 02:04.599 --> 02:05.140 [SPEAKER_02]: Where are we? 02:05.440 --> 02:06.080 [SPEAKER_02]: What season? 02:06.100 --> 02:06.821 [SPEAKER_02]: What episode? 02:07.021 --> 02:09.062 [SPEAKER_02]: So season, we're in the season four. 02:09.342 --> 02:11.863 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is actually episode six. 02:11.883 --> 02:17.926 [SPEAKER_02]: And particularly the topic, we've been going through the particular angle of vice. 02:18.947 --> 02:21.348 [SPEAKER_02]: And the one we're on today, we've been using the seven 02:25.990 --> 02:51.869 [SPEAKER_02]: And today we're on Greed and Greed is one that, you know, we, we actually started talking about and I think the best way to set up this episode today would really be to just be honest about what we're about to do because what we're about to do is different because when we started talking about this some stuff came up so Justin, why don't you tell us what came up and then we'll proceed because I have some fun talk. 02:52.050 --> 03:00.826 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is going to be a bit of a different structure and you're already hearing it in the introduction, I think I have thoughts. 03:02.327 --> 03:05.809 [SPEAKER_01]: on pride, on lust, on envy, on gluttony. 03:06.049 --> 03:08.830 [SPEAKER_01]: And I actually trust like a lot of the stuff we shared. 03:08.870 --> 03:10.891 [SPEAKER_01]: I would be podcasting if I didn't trust. 03:10.991 --> 03:12.192 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't know if I was a bias. 03:12.212 --> 03:13.773 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have a biblical perspective. 03:13.793 --> 03:15.193 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just so interesting. 03:15.214 --> 03:16.394 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just so interesting. 03:16.914 --> 03:17.835 [SPEAKER_01]: And we want to be honest. 03:18.515 --> 03:22.077 [SPEAKER_01]: As we started to talk about greed, I said, bro. 03:23.713 --> 03:29.294 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a little nervous that I don't trust myself on this perspective. 03:29.314 --> 03:36.416 [SPEAKER_01]: I had very little money in my 20s, and then it got a lot easier to make money in my 30s when I became a lawyer. 03:37.236 --> 03:41.337 [SPEAKER_01]: And I am not that old in my journey of learning how to steer it money. 03:41.577 --> 03:48.538 [SPEAKER_01]: And all of this said, it's like, I am actually nervous that I don't take the Bible seriously enough. 03:49.619 --> 03:52.462 [SPEAKER_01]: On greed, I don't take the Bible seriously enough on what to do with your money. 03:52.542 --> 04:03.454 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe I do maybe I don't, I'm just nervous that I actually don't know what to tell you listener to do with your money because I'm still maybe figuring it out for myself. 04:04.355 --> 04:12.817 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just wanted to explore with that trepidation and say, listen, as we here we go broke in real time. 04:12.877 --> 04:13.497 [SPEAKER_02]: Real time good. 04:13.577 --> 04:22.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Explore some of the Bible's comments on money and agreed and ask ourselves, as well as ask you, like, are we willing to change our lives? 04:23.920 --> 04:24.700 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that a fair summary? 04:24.720 --> 04:28.041 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a fair summary and well, I mean, I wanted you to set up because we kind of talked about this 04:32.673 --> 04:40.375 [SPEAKER_02]: what if I asked you some some questions and we had some commentary along the way to discover where this is actually at in your life, exactly. 04:40.775 --> 04:44.056 [SPEAKER_02]: On on air in this moment and you're like, I'm actually game for that. 04:44.376 --> 04:53.278 [SPEAKER_02]: So I want to say one of my favorite things about this, the lesson behind the lesson, there's the obvious thing we're going to talk about, but I think the lesson behind this and I do want to say thank you for being open to this. 04:53.998 --> 05:06.164 [SPEAKER_02]: And also just even being, you know, like, yeah, let's talk about it, is this is the way, the lesson behind lesson is this is the way that you can actually begin to discover if you struggle with something. 05:06.184 --> 05:09.606 [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope you can see through this example, it doesn't actually have to be scary. 05:10.246 --> 05:18.871 [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, it takes humility, yes, it takes honesty, but you're willing this to go like, I don't know, I might actually struggle with this to the point that it might be a blind spot. 05:21.572 --> 05:22.753 [SPEAKER_02]: let's figure out if I do. 05:23.013 --> 05:23.934 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't know. 05:23.954 --> 05:27.696 [SPEAKER_01]: So is this going to be an interview or an interrogation? 05:27.836 --> 05:29.317 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 05:30.058 --> 05:34.661 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope a little bit about if if you're crying and screaming at some point, then we've done our work. 05:34.861 --> 05:35.681 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a good shot. 05:35.861 --> 05:36.682 [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent. 05:36.702 --> 05:39.123 [SPEAKER_02]: No, but I do all sincerity. 05:39.203 --> 05:44.907 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is actually something that is so good about this conversation. 05:45.087 --> 05:45.528 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope is 05:46.388 --> 05:55.276 [SPEAKER_02]: is that it actually is hopefully going to show you that with people that love you, don't judge you and are for you, these conversations are not negative. 05:55.296 --> 06:01.162 [SPEAKER_02]: They're exciting, because they give you hope of the future, and they can help you see, because none of us have this figured out. 06:01.222 --> 06:02.043 [SPEAKER_02]: None of us. 06:02.083 --> 06:04.345 [SPEAKER_02]: We all have these things that we're applying to. 06:05.806 --> 06:06.107 [SPEAKER_02]: All of us. 06:06.347 --> 06:09.310 [SPEAKER_02]: So, and where this also came from, this is interesting, too. 06:09.910 --> 06:23.264 [SPEAKER_02]: When we were in San Diego, speaking at an event, we talked about this on one of the bonus episodes, and you had noted, like, as we were talking, we were talking about money and trust and different things like that, and you had, you had kind of noted even today. 06:23.965 --> 06:29.812 [SPEAKER_02]: That was in a hot kind of moment, and then it made you curious about different things with where this might be. 06:30.292 --> 06:30.873 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, 06:31.453 --> 06:35.575 [SPEAKER_02]: Man, I'd be so happy to walk like walk with you and talk about this. 06:35.615 --> 06:42.057 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to name it to give some framework just a tiny bit of money is really the problem with greed. 06:42.377 --> 06:45.839 [SPEAKER_02]: So I know that you said money and I don't think that you're wrong about that. 06:46.179 --> 06:54.662 [SPEAKER_02]: I just think it's not money is usually it's more about safety more about trust so. 06:56.658 --> 07:16.742 [SPEAKER_02]: agreed sounds like if I just have a little bit more I can relax if I just have a little bit more a little bit more money to this one if I if I work harder I'll be okay I deserve this right let's that kind of stuff so I'm pointing that out because it's not just wanting more it's believing that more can come to you. 07:18.760 --> 07:21.821 [SPEAKER_02]: in a way that honestly only comes from you. 07:22.062 --> 07:28.865 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's really important to highlight that because it is actually more than just money. 07:29.485 --> 07:34.988 [SPEAKER_02]: It's more about security, control, comparison, fear, all that stuff. 07:35.148 --> 07:37.129 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the basis. 07:37.929 --> 07:39.790 [SPEAKER_02]: So I have a couple questions for you. 07:40.010 --> 07:40.470 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's go. 07:40.490 --> 07:41.390 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, start with questions. 07:41.470 --> 07:46.051 [SPEAKER_02]: I actually want to start with questions because I think this will be fun to help a conversation. 07:46.131 --> 07:47.552 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so this is the plan. 07:47.872 --> 07:49.032 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the way. 07:49.692 --> 07:52.393 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so how much is enough? 07:52.813 --> 07:54.734 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I'm gonna ask you one followup. 07:55.274 --> 07:59.975 [SPEAKER_01]: Could you actually name it when it comes to in numbers or in conceptually? 08:00.235 --> 08:07.176 [SPEAKER_02]: You can take a how you want, but I'm saying like, let's say is there a number that you have and you don't have to say the number per se, but can you actually name it? 08:10.546 --> 08:35.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I would, I would go about it conceptually and think about, do I have enough to save or retirement to pay for our mortgage to cover my children's education and some of their college education because I actually expect them to help a little bit there. 08:35.374 --> 08:35.574 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:36.594 --> 08:37.014 [SPEAKER_01]: And then 08:41.898 --> 08:47.983 [SPEAKER_01]: to provide a comfortable enough lifestyle without being lavish. 08:48.063 --> 08:52.847 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I could comment say, that is, that's what's enough to me. 08:53.068 --> 08:53.648 [SPEAKER_02]: Got it. 08:53.788 --> 08:59.173 [SPEAKER_02]: If the things are covered, if the important essentials, the values and the goals you learn to have a cover cover. 08:59.193 --> 09:09.421 [SPEAKER_01]: And just for you and the listener to be real clear, I'm answering honestly in what I would think, not prescriptively, and what I think I ought to think, because I actually don't know what I ought to think. 09:11.342 --> 09:15.404 [SPEAKER_01]: But my natural reaction is going to be like, okay, what are the expenses? 09:15.424 --> 09:16.785 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a number that's enough. 09:17.445 --> 09:22.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Strangely, that number has kept growing my whole life. 09:23.148 --> 09:25.229 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm a little worried. 09:25.349 --> 09:26.110 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess this is what started. 09:26.130 --> 09:29.031 [SPEAKER_01]: This is like, do I actually think enough is enough? 09:29.771 --> 09:31.072 [SPEAKER_01]: Or is it like every year? 09:31.092 --> 09:33.413 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's like, well, I thought that was enough last year, but now this is. 09:34.253 --> 09:35.854 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, another clarifying question. 09:36.154 --> 09:37.475 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it an annual number? 09:38.856 --> 09:45.137 [SPEAKER_02]: more is it more as long as these big buckets that are important are filled. 09:46.677 --> 09:49.278 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I see them in annual as annual expenses. 09:49.498 --> 09:49.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 09:50.058 --> 09:50.258 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 09:50.458 --> 09:51.478 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's an annual number. 09:51.498 --> 09:52.858 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you got to that number. 09:53.759 --> 09:54.679 [SPEAKER_02]: We would we would get there. 09:54.699 --> 09:54.799 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 09:55.439 --> 10:01.140 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, here's another just kind of this is curial building curiosity building the framework. 10:01.920 --> 10:05.701 [SPEAKER_02]: What is something do you have something that 10:09.913 --> 10:27.903 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, can you is it feel free to name it if you want to you don't have to, but do you have something That would be genuinely hard is it a possession yeah, it would be genuinely hard to downsize our Okay, even though I recognize it's it's kind of a nice home. 10:28.003 --> 10:34.347 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like we we used to live in a House that I don't think anybody what I thought was nice is what we could afford in the two years ago 10:35.107 --> 10:58.888 [SPEAKER_01]: we bought a house across from the school that we go to and Lauren and I both looked each other and said we better dying this house because we're investing a lot and like we actually think like we want to grow old and die here but we sort of bought what we thought was our quote-unquote dream house and we had a lot of spiritual reasons that we thought was the right decision like it's right it's right it's in a neighborhood where kids can play it's in a community air you've been to it community area for us 10:59.648 --> 11:05.752 [SPEAKER_01]: It's big enough for teenage boys to go into, um, it creates community with their school friends. 11:05.792 --> 11:14.377 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if I, I think I could tell like 99 out of 100 Christians about this and get a check off answer. 11:14.597 --> 11:16.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was okay to buy this really nice house. 11:17.093 --> 11:18.334 [SPEAKER_00]: And Brooke, that's what worries me. 11:19.154 --> 11:19.474 [SPEAKER_01]: Why? 11:19.955 --> 11:27.859 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm worried that it's so easy for me and others in America to justify any and every expense that we ever spent. 11:28.399 --> 11:36.723 [SPEAKER_01]: And nobody would be radical enough to be like, didn't Jesus say, sell most of that and give him to the poor? 11:37.384 --> 11:38.424 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, what? 11:38.444 --> 11:41.146 [SPEAKER_01]: We give 10% plus to the poor. 11:41.346 --> 11:41.546 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 11:43.380 --> 11:51.486 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's, but when you ask like, what would be hard to give away, it would be hard, yeah, I wouldn't have trouble, I don't have trouble giving away 10%. 11:51.566 --> 12:00.472 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, Lorna and I budget around that, like we really, I think one area we do well is we first set that out and we give it away. 12:01.492 --> 12:11.819 [SPEAKER_01]: But it'd be hard to give away the, I think the comfort, the convenience, and the community that the house we bought 12:13.124 --> 12:13.304 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 12:13.484 --> 12:15.264 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think all the things you just named are beautiful. 12:15.944 --> 12:21.225 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know this is just because it could be bad doesn't mean it is bad. 12:21.265 --> 12:21.485 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 12:21.765 --> 12:32.647 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's important to say so you can like rest even like just because you could justify all those things are also important and their values and we have money to also live. 12:32.767 --> 12:32.907 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 12:32.927 --> 12:38.288 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's this edge of like well if you've worked really hard and you've done well and there's been things that you wanted to invest in 12:42.689 --> 12:43.849 [SPEAKER_02]: for us to enjoy. 12:43.870 --> 12:45.410 [SPEAKER_02]: This is an ecclesiastise thing. 12:45.430 --> 13:01.036 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm pointing at these tensions because it's it's quick and I love and this is a perfect example because it's so easy to see how even someone who understands that nuance when it becomes really personal, how we can easily go like maybe I am doing it wrong, right? 13:01.056 --> 13:02.077 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I am screen this up. 13:02.877 --> 13:06.100 [SPEAKER_02]: and I don't even, I always say so far, I don't think you are at all. 13:06.321 --> 13:11.405 [SPEAKER_02]: But of course, I would be hard to give because that's also not just a possession of like, it's not a motorcycle, right? 13:11.585 --> 13:13.627 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not easy to get my motorcycle away, honestly. 13:14.208 --> 13:15.809 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's something different. 13:16.090 --> 13:20.614 [SPEAKER_02]: It's something that is a, like, your home represents what you value most deeply. 13:21.512 --> 13:21.752 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:22.332 --> 13:26.373 [SPEAKER_02]: And that so I would just say like I don't even know if that falls in the full category. 13:26.393 --> 13:32.015 [SPEAKER_02]: Although the deeper thing that you said of what are you justifying that, you know what I mean? 13:32.035 --> 13:32.795 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I think? 13:33.755 --> 13:34.775 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I was hoping for. 13:35.216 --> 13:42.277 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this sort of interview style conversation would help me name some dissonances that I'm unaware of and that made me uncomfortable with just big. 13:42.297 --> 13:43.178 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to teach on greed. 13:43.218 --> 13:44.758 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I don't know if I know yet. 13:44.998 --> 13:45.198 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:45.678 --> 13:46.318 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's a dissonance. 13:46.358 --> 13:48.579 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd never, little I never thought about this until just now. 13:50.060 --> 13:56.722 [SPEAKER_01]: In my 20s, I lived in a community of missionaries in Shanghai, China, no one had money. 13:57.643 --> 14:00.584 [SPEAKER_01]: We were on genuinely poor missionaries. 14:00.624 --> 14:05.625 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you put our income next to the American poverty, the poverty threshold, we were under it, okay? 14:06.166 --> 14:18.170 [SPEAKER_01]: And so so much of my spiritual formation was in a community where if you got to go out for an expensive meal, it was like, so once in a while, 14:19.471 --> 14:27.797 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other hand, I do want to acknowledge Americans in China were still rich in a very real sense. 14:27.877 --> 14:34.382 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what the Chinese people I was around had was drastically less than even what we had, most of them. 14:34.422 --> 14:38.545 [SPEAKER_01]: There's actually the Uber rich that are also present in China. 14:39.245 --> 14:40.326 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, in Shanghai, China. 14:40.346 --> 14:42.068 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a weird, and that's just what I'm saying. 14:42.729 --> 14:53.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of my 20s was in this missionary community that didn't have money in a country where the poverty line was way lower than the American poverty line. 14:53.439 --> 15:02.208 [SPEAKER_01]: So just so much my experience was in a place where if I were to see them, the house I have now, I'd be like, holy moly, no, like you've... 15:02.928 --> 15:10.195 [SPEAKER_01]: 20 years really brought you far like yeah and I would probably be like do you need all that space my house by the way 4,000 square feet. 15:10.235 --> 15:11.697 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's big deal or small of you. 15:11.997 --> 15:12.838 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not real. 15:12.978 --> 15:20.606 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, depending on what you is it's not huge, but I my 22 year old self would have questions for my 42 year old self. 15:21.426 --> 15:24.550 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I live in a community where it's normal. 15:25.190 --> 15:26.331 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have the biggest house. 15:27.052 --> 15:27.292 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:27.532 --> 15:30.993 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have the most money of a lot of the community that I go in. 15:31.013 --> 15:31.994 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have the nicest car. 15:32.194 --> 15:32.454 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:32.894 --> 15:35.375 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm wondering if like I'm blind. 15:37.796 --> 15:41.057 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't I'm wondering if I'm greedy or grateful. 15:41.157 --> 15:47.159 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would just genuinely be humble of I'm not sure that both aren't a little bit present. 15:48.279 --> 15:50.560 [SPEAKER_02]: But wouldn't that be the most 15:54.788 --> 15:57.088 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just explain, let me say a little more. 15:58.229 --> 16:07.650 [SPEAKER_02]: Right now in your life, right now I can say this for my life, and I can imagine it for you, but I'll speak first person because that is, I know for sure a true thing, a true. 16:08.350 --> 16:21.713 [SPEAKER_02]: I am experiencing right now in my life, some of the deepest, most beautiful things I've ever experienced, some in work, some in life, some in things I get to do, like dreams being fulfilled, beautiful things. 16:22.673 --> 16:28.218 [SPEAKER_02]: And at the very same time, I am handling and in the middle of the hardest part of my life. 16:28.879 --> 16:39.629 [SPEAKER_02]: Regarding my wife's health and her family dynamics because of all the different variables, things that cannot control, I am simultaneously holding the deepest pain and the deepest joy. 16:42.308 --> 16:48.910 [SPEAKER_02]: Grace and truth, tension is a better word, is where Jesus invites us to constantly live. 16:48.970 --> 16:51.771 [SPEAKER_02]: He gives all these questions that don't have full answers. 16:52.111 --> 16:53.351 [SPEAKER_02]: This is this side of heaven. 16:54.151 --> 16:55.672 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the now and the not yet. 16:56.312 --> 17:01.553 [SPEAKER_02]: We are experiencing versions of heaven on our way to heaven, but we're not there and we feel the ache, but we can see where it's going. 17:01.633 --> 17:08.695 [SPEAKER_02]: It's in the middle, so it's all these variables, as examples to say, wouldn't it be fair and true to say, 17:09.776 --> 17:10.777 [SPEAKER_02]: It's probably both. 17:10.817 --> 17:11.898 [SPEAKER_02]: You're probably a street. 17:11.918 --> 17:12.339 [SPEAKER_02]: No, both. 17:12.359 --> 17:13.500 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm putting that on you. 17:13.520 --> 17:15.682 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying could greed be a part of it. 17:16.343 --> 17:16.643 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe. 17:16.864 --> 17:17.104 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 17:17.184 --> 17:19.106 [SPEAKER_02]: Could deep gratitude be a part of it. 17:19.186 --> 17:19.547 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course. 17:19.687 --> 17:21.108 [SPEAKER_02]: And to only just finish and say, 17:23.785 --> 17:26.707 [SPEAKER_02]: ego isn't, is always on the table for all of us. 17:26.927 --> 17:34.432 [SPEAKER_02]: None of us ever, when somebody says, as soon as I have the go to some of my heart are like, no, I'm just doing this because I really want to, your ego is always involved. 17:34.793 --> 17:39.396 [SPEAKER_02]: Even if you're not aware of it, our ego's are sneaky and they are constantly present. 17:39.436 --> 17:47.421 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think this idea that it could be a 100% gratitude or exclusively only greed is a way of thinking that it's not actually very biblical. 17:47.522 --> 17:51.865 [SPEAKER_02]: It's actually not true of the human experience and most of us live in tension with most. 17:53.913 --> 17:59.477 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, what makes me go a little bit deeper here. 17:59.497 --> 18:05.062 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I, I just think this will help you and others understand where I struggle with this. 18:06.123 --> 18:16.811 [SPEAKER_01]: What's also changed in my life from my 20 year old self to my 40, one year old self is that I run a business now. 18:18.132 --> 18:18.292 [SPEAKER_01]: And 18:19.934 --> 18:23.222 [SPEAKER_01]: I am always thinking, do I have enough money? 18:23.282 --> 18:26.570 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have enough money to keep it going? 18:27.553 --> 18:29.017 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's half and half. 18:31.310 --> 18:32.651 [SPEAKER_01]: to provide for my family. 18:33.551 --> 18:36.313 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other half is to provide for the employees. 18:36.433 --> 18:41.896 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it would be almost equally tragic to me to be like, oh my gosh, the business is shutting down. 18:41.976 --> 18:44.477 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can't pay for the bills at home. 18:44.517 --> 18:45.598 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to go find another job. 18:46.538 --> 18:51.421 [SPEAKER_01]: Or to look at our employees and say, sorry, we're laying you off because we don't have enough money, right? 18:51.941 --> 18:58.324 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm saying this because I think if I was just working a salary job, 18:59.666 --> 19:03.064 [SPEAKER_01]: My level of concern about, like, do I have enough money? 19:04.750 --> 19:12.032 [SPEAKER_01]: At least when I was it was like it was just smaller like when I worked for a law firm and I got paid X amount a year I didn't think about it very much. 19:12.072 --> 19:12.272 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 19:12.652 --> 19:13.113 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 19:13.713 --> 19:25.416 [SPEAKER_01]: It was when I started my own law firm and sort of started my own like world of like owning a business that I started to worry a lot more and I'm I'm worried about the worry on the one hand. 19:25.736 --> 19:31.538 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so grateful that I get to provide for my family adequately I really take a lot of pride in that. 19:31.658 --> 19:44.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that I can provide what provide an education that I think is a very good one for my kids or give a house to Lauren that I think she really feels like able to live. 19:46.730 --> 19:47.110 [SPEAKER_01]: into. 19:47.130 --> 19:49.911 [SPEAKER_01]: And by that, I mean, she's like, she's able to host in the way she wants to. 19:49.931 --> 19:56.052 [SPEAKER_01]: She isn't feel constantly stressed by teenage boys all up in her business because we have good room upstairs where they can go. 19:56.112 --> 19:58.472 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a certain aspect of beauty to it. 19:58.512 --> 19:59.592 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel very good about that. 19:59.952 --> 20:00.172 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 20:00.192 --> 20:01.953 [SPEAKER_01]: You're really good about being able to employ people. 20:02.313 --> 20:02.513 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 20:02.773 --> 20:06.173 [SPEAKER_01]: By the same time, I worry about it more than I've ever worried before. 20:06.194 --> 20:10.054 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, why do why do I 20:15.924 --> 20:20.666 [SPEAKER_01]: at the same time that he's given me more, let me feel like this. 20:21.206 --> 20:26.268 [SPEAKER_01]: As he's entrusting me with more, I seem to be experiencing less trust in him. 20:27.789 --> 20:28.349 [SPEAKER_01]: Emotionally. 20:28.489 --> 20:28.830 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 20:29.310 --> 20:29.530 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 20:30.897 --> 20:31.538 [SPEAKER_02]: can I respond? 20:31.858 --> 20:33.200 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I'm saying it. 20:34.181 --> 20:42.090 [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder how much of that for you specifically actually has to do with your trust needing to catch up to your new capacity and responsibility. 20:43.312 --> 20:50.721 [SPEAKER_02]: Meaning most of my life in our lives in general, there's a this layer in the level where 20:52.497 --> 20:56.460 [SPEAKER_02]: We're constantly being invited to trust more, to trust more, to trust more. 20:57.021 --> 21:00.804 [SPEAKER_02]: For me, it hasn't been as much with money, it's been with health and life. 21:03.487 --> 21:05.789 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to trust that cause gonna hold my family. 21:08.671 --> 21:10.693 [SPEAKER_02]: Finally, yes, but also just like in health. 21:10.933 --> 21:11.153 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 21:11.874 --> 21:17.839 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's also that invitation similarly for you maybe in this arena where it's like, 21:18.800 --> 21:21.963 [SPEAKER_02]: your responsibility has grown. 21:23.144 --> 21:26.827 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's a new invitation of trust on the table. 21:27.107 --> 21:27.347 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 21:27.907 --> 21:35.534 [SPEAKER_02]: And until those kind of, because there is usually a lagging effect in my experience, like we're being stretched, but it's like, man, we're going to be better. 21:36.174 --> 21:37.715 [SPEAKER_02]: But it doesn't have right away. 21:37.735 --> 21:39.597 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lagging effect. 21:39.977 --> 21:50.531 [SPEAKER_02]: So more of like your even in the situation, is it that your trust is being expanded and you're being invited into something that you see, but are not quite there yet? 21:51.112 --> 21:56.479 [SPEAKER_02]: And I also don't think if you haven't done this before, you're also getting used to a whole new 21:57.380 --> 22:05.946 [SPEAKER_02]: kind of operating, where you're now responsible for all of these people, where before it was easier to just worry about your family or just be concerned about one of you. 22:06.406 --> 22:08.747 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's also fair to say, there's new elements to this. 22:09.208 --> 22:15.271 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, you should have responsibility, but worry is a whole different type of thing, right? 22:15.291 --> 22:15.972 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what you're trying to 22:16.520 --> 22:34.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's where I pick knowledge and I wonder out loud for the listener if you're like me or not, I don't know a ton of believers who I regard as greedy in the scrooge sense, yes, of I really want all these nice possessions, I find those people are kind of obvious. 22:35.562 --> 22:55.392 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm easy to call out and most most Christians I know don't struggle with that or imitate that Okay, but I do know a lot of people who I suspect the the greed Yes shows up more like it does for me and that is Anxiety over money because you don't trust that God is enough 22:56.312 --> 23:10.596 [SPEAKER_01]: So you need to see enough money in the bank account and so the traditional form of greed of like all mine, Scrooge, Hordea, Hiles is not something that would manifest for you, but you like me would worry a lot about it. 23:10.776 --> 23:11.557 [SPEAKER_01]: And here's what I do see. 23:11.677 --> 23:13.357 [SPEAKER_01]: Looks my friends. 23:13.877 --> 23:15.698 [SPEAKER_01]: I see us justifying nicer and nicer things. 23:16.058 --> 23:16.278 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 23:16.738 --> 23:17.058 [SPEAKER_01]: Like me. 23:18.259 --> 23:22.221 [SPEAKER_01]: I see us checking bank accounts and for one case a lot more often. 23:22.661 --> 23:23.801 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you become what you measure. 23:24.102 --> 23:25.622 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a level of checking that's unhealthy. 23:25.642 --> 23:27.263 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a level of checking that is responsible. 23:27.483 --> 23:28.864 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 23:30.504 --> 23:34.226 [SPEAKER_01]: I see people I think doing retirement better. 23:34.246 --> 23:36.207 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think I see a lot of 23:37.872 --> 23:42.014 [SPEAKER_01]: people in the generation above us in the boomer generation which is by the wealthiest generation. 23:42.734 --> 23:43.895 [SPEAKER_01]: We need some millennials or not. 23:43.915 --> 23:55.741 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, intentional to a 501c3 and yeah, I mean, if you're if you're being so awesome cash and you're like, yeah, I have a distranged, you know, situation with my kids, but I want to bless them in a street to help my kids worry. 23:55.801 --> 23:56.602 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, give it to 23:57.762 --> 24:04.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I do see Millennials generally treating retirement and saving for retirement differently than any tumors. 24:04.886 --> 24:11.929 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I would say it's a little more responsible, a little less like I assume I'm going to retire and not work and I'm going to have all this money piled up. 24:11.989 --> 24:17.452 [SPEAKER_01]: I see more people in my generation saying I want enough so that I'm not a burden to other people. 24:18.032 --> 24:21.554 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't need one mountain house and one lake house and one regular house. 24:21.574 --> 24:25.135 [SPEAKER_01]: And I actually think that's a really responsible thing about our generation. 24:25.215 --> 24:25.936 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah. 24:26.636 --> 24:42.309 [SPEAKER_01]: So all that to say is I just do think I see a lot of people like me who there's anxiety around money and I think our greed manifests that way, okay, and I'm just concerned. 24:44.082 --> 24:57.271 [SPEAKER_01]: that it's easy for us to normalize that and it's hard for us to be, I would just love the global church, you know, to be a little more present in my life and be disabled by them. 24:57.751 --> 24:59.512 [SPEAKER_01]: What did they think I should do with my money? 24:59.713 --> 25:00.113 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:00.253 --> 25:01.574 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm just very scared. 25:01.594 --> 25:05.697 [SPEAKER_01]: But one of my old Chinese missionary friends, like, I'm saying this and maybe it's possible. 25:05.717 --> 25:07.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it'd be awesome to have 25:10.940 --> 25:11.420 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing? 25:11.901 --> 25:12.581 [SPEAKER_01]: I might do it up. 25:12.842 --> 25:13.042 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:13.062 --> 25:14.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you think this is responsible? 25:15.024 --> 25:15.264 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:15.324 --> 25:15.824 [SPEAKER_01]: Generous? 25:15.964 --> 25:16.225 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:16.505 --> 25:17.406 [SPEAKER_01]: And grateful. 25:17.426 --> 25:18.827 [SPEAKER_01]: Or are you like, oh my gosh. 25:18.967 --> 25:20.729 [SPEAKER_01]: You're all Americans are trapped in a world of breeding. 25:20.789 --> 25:21.569 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't even know it. 25:21.589 --> 25:21.729 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:21.790 --> 25:23.211 [SPEAKER_01]: You need the global church to speak and do it. 25:23.231 --> 25:24.512 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I wonder out loud. 25:24.812 --> 25:25.373 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's too great. 25:25.413 --> 25:28.035 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think everyone wonder out loud with Justin. 25:28.055 --> 25:28.776 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll wonder with you. 25:29.456 --> 25:44.902 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I think it's really what you just said is really actually insightful, but even within that what you just said is interesting because each culture, each moment, each each place has a different metric of what is important valuable and we are obviously the most wealthy nation. 25:44.922 --> 25:54.866 [SPEAKER_02]: So these are questions that are really in one sense unanswerable because like we are rightfully pointing out, there's so many nuances about the external. 25:57.187 --> 25:58.888 [SPEAKER_02]: to where we do with all of these to the heart. 25:59.589 --> 26:10.656 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that you will know, I think there's moments when you know, like, I think you even know right now, like, you know the moments when something might be like, really do I need it? 26:10.776 --> 26:14.239 [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's that moment of like, what's that make of you? 26:14.259 --> 26:15.139 [SPEAKER_02]: Or like, no, I don't need it. 26:15.360 --> 26:15.560 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 26:15.760 --> 26:22.725 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think you more than most people actually have probably a very good grid, like you're honest with yourself about what you need and what you don't 26:24.622 --> 26:39.445 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, you're not perfect, but I'm saying, I think I witnessed you even from the, from the interactions we have, that you have, you have a governance over yourself, where you're not just ham, you're not just going to appreciate that. 26:39.465 --> 26:46.346 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think in the spirit of being honest, about like wondering where my faults are, I'll be also be honest about what I do think we're actually pretty good at. 26:46.586 --> 26:47.186 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 26:47.346 --> 26:50.787 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think Lauren and I are good. 26:52.527 --> 26:58.371 [SPEAKER_01]: at generosity in at least like we we give to great organizations. 26:58.411 --> 27:08.638 [SPEAKER_01]: We pick them carefully and we give away our first fruits to them and a lot of those local church by the way we talked about this in the stewardship. 27:08.838 --> 27:14.082 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're good at simplicity even though I'm open to 27:18.845 --> 27:22.587 [SPEAKER_01]: things that I already have or like a nicer version of something that I already have. 27:22.647 --> 27:25.488 [SPEAKER_01]: I even before I came here actually told you about this. 27:25.508 --> 27:25.888 [SPEAKER_01]: This is great. 27:26.128 --> 27:28.830 [SPEAKER_01]: I was having a bad Sunday night for whatever reason. 27:28.850 --> 27:29.810 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just a little irritable. 27:30.390 --> 27:37.294 [SPEAKER_01]: And I went on Amazon and thought, I'm going to buy a travel espresso maker so that I can have espresso on this trip. 27:38.114 --> 27:45.699 [SPEAKER_01]: And I even, like, in the moment realized, oh, I'm a little irritable and I'm buying something to cope. 27:45.759 --> 27:57.766 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was, like, 70 bucks, which is, to maybe do you that's very expensive, maybe to you that's negligible, but it was enough to me to be, to actually realize, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. 27:58.086 --> 27:59.287 [SPEAKER_01]: What am I doing? 27:59.727 --> 28:04.830 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to be doing this, and I didn't buy it, and I say that to say, I would. 28:05.430 --> 28:14.472 [SPEAKER_01]: actually buy this piece of equipment because I'm for buying nice things that are durable that beautify life and only buying it one time. 28:14.752 --> 28:16.493 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's part of the virtue of simplicity. 28:16.733 --> 28:16.953 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:17.213 --> 28:19.034 [SPEAKER_01]: Not just buying a ton of crap all the time. 28:19.754 --> 28:27.456 [SPEAKER_01]: But I also realize that at the same time, I'm as prone to anybody else to click, purchase, or start browsing. 28:28.716 --> 28:33.297 [SPEAKER_01]: what I might buy in order to feel better about the bad night I'm having. 28:34.077 --> 28:39.038 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where this is exactly like gluttony and lust in our last few episodes. 28:39.258 --> 28:49.480 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that I think Americans are uniquely able to purchase themselves out of their sadness and cope with the frustration of whatever you're experiencing. 28:50.861 --> 28:55.101 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually experiencing shame over my body and the way I eat. 28:55.121 --> 28:57.462 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to buy a whole new summer wardrobe. 28:57.882 --> 28:58.102 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:58.222 --> 28:59.583 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a way you're missing the problem. 28:59.824 --> 29:03.766 [SPEAKER_01]: Or I'm mad at my spouse, thus I'm going to go. 29:05.087 --> 29:05.388 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:05.528 --> 29:07.829 [SPEAKER_01]: By this thing I've wanted and now I feel better about it. 29:08.250 --> 29:08.550 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:08.750 --> 29:10.692 [SPEAKER_01]: That's such a danger. 29:10.932 --> 29:11.112 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:11.292 --> 29:13.894 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that is such a danger. 29:14.074 --> 29:17.717 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to name that as president in my life, but I really want to name anybody listening. 29:19.118 --> 29:27.503 [SPEAKER_01]: We do that as an American, as you, I think we uniquely as Americans do that, and we ought to be honest with ourselves. 29:27.623 --> 29:28.223 [SPEAKER_01]: This is bad. 29:28.443 --> 29:28.984 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:29.004 --> 29:36.888 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we call consumerism, but Christianity should just be a lot more focused on this problem that we have than I think it is. 29:39.118 --> 29:42.742 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, this is the problem with sin and pain. 29:42.782 --> 29:47.426 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so sneaky and it's again, it's an effective way to go with pain. 29:48.067 --> 29:49.088 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the thing behind the thing. 29:49.188 --> 29:56.315 [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, in the spirit of trying to continue a couple, I have three, okay, yeah, no, just because, 29:57.035 --> 30:21.142 [SPEAKER_02]: This is incredibly helpful, even the processing, you know, even listener, I think will help you all, but I think there's a couple questions that I'm going to present to you, but I actually think it's for everybody listening because if you struggle with greed, notably or you're trying to discover it I think there's a couple, so this is for you, but also this is for the listener, okay What are you afraid would happen to you if you had significantly less than you have now? 30:22.375 --> 30:24.097 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so let's just try to name this with a good word. 30:24.117 --> 30:25.419 [SPEAKER_01]: That's unfortunately easy. 30:25.479 --> 30:26.901 [SPEAKER_01]: That's such, you know, you're good at this. 30:27.121 --> 30:28.222 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you got me. 30:28.883 --> 30:30.345 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to get you. 30:30.986 --> 30:31.446 [SPEAKER_01]: I love you. 30:31.466 --> 30:34.911 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not worried that me or my family would be in lack. 30:35.051 --> 30:37.254 [SPEAKER_01]: We have such a support network, okay? 30:38.034 --> 30:44.397 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be so embarrassed to be so embarrassed to go to my friends and be like, Can I borrow a car? 30:44.857 --> 30:45.617 [SPEAKER_01]: We're struggling. 30:46.218 --> 30:46.738 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man. 30:47.398 --> 30:47.998 [SPEAKER_01]: That's pride. 30:48.579 --> 30:56.202 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'd be so embarrassed to go to my parents or my in laws and be like, hey, can we borrow I'd be yeah 30:56.562 --> 30:58.163 [SPEAKER_01]: And as you, I mean, that's just exposing. 30:58.203 --> 31:04.188 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, as you asked it, I'm afraid of being embarrassed to be dependent. 31:04.788 --> 31:07.890 [SPEAKER_01]: I would rather be seen as the one who can help others, not the one that he helped. 31:08.131 --> 31:09.972 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, gosh, that's a bad answer. 31:10.292 --> 31:11.453 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a bad answer. 31:11.873 --> 31:12.594 [SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful. 31:12.774 --> 31:14.555 [SPEAKER_02]: I really respect your honesty, man. 31:14.595 --> 31:19.759 [SPEAKER_02]: You could literally just say, don't want to talk about this, but instead you're willing to say, no, it's embarrassing. 31:20.220 --> 31:23.002 [SPEAKER_02]: But even, even again, I think there's a perfect 31:25.495 --> 31:29.537 [SPEAKER_02]: there's nothing wrong with being embarrassed by that. 31:29.697 --> 31:30.717 [SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense to me. 31:30.817 --> 31:32.378 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a fear thing to say. 31:32.418 --> 31:39.061 [SPEAKER_02]: That's even an understandable thing to say because you've been meaning, but it shows my pride, right? 31:39.101 --> 31:41.642 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's wrong to be that prideful. 31:41.662 --> 31:45.044 [SPEAKER_02]: So let me say something, I'm gonna say a phrase to you that friends listening, you can borrow. 31:45.404 --> 31:50.907 [SPEAKER_02]: So I need you Justin to be nice to my friend Justin, and compassionate to him in the sense that 31:52.067 --> 31:55.169 [SPEAKER_02]: you are okay to have these flaws. 31:55.409 --> 31:56.009 [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay. 31:56.230 --> 31:58.471 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not meaning that it's going to always be good. 31:58.491 --> 32:02.093 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not, it's not permission to continue to like, it's not permission. 32:02.133 --> 32:07.996 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just saying like, man, be gracious with yourself that yeah, you got stuff just like I do like everyone doesn't sneaky. 32:08.196 --> 32:08.637 [SPEAKER_02]: It's sneaky. 32:08.977 --> 32:11.518 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think what you're just saying is perfectly true. 32:11.558 --> 32:11.859 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, 32:12.679 --> 32:37.272 [SPEAKER_02]: it's mostly it's not about like if it's not about the actual provision that's what it hides behind it's about yeah it's about most of the time like we're going to talk about you know next episode pride pride is in everything yeah for all of us and so i think that's a perfect answer and yeah i think you're you're naming that really well and listener for you i'd say answer the same thing you know what are you afraid would happen if you're significantly less because 32:38.993 --> 32:50.984 [SPEAKER_02]: I think most of us are probably where you're at, where it's like, well, I actually, you know, most people like I like to call my family or have this situation or we could pivot, you know, I wouldn't want to, but we could. 32:53.026 --> 32:57.690 [SPEAKER_02]: The second question, again, this is going to be for you, discovery, but also for everyone listening. 32:59.047 --> 33:00.808 [SPEAKER_02]: because a lot of this, I think, is taught. 33:01.448 --> 33:08.332 [SPEAKER_02]: When did you first learn that having money success or possessions meant you were safe or valuable or winning? 33:09.833 --> 33:11.554 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was definitely becoming a lawyer. 33:12.515 --> 33:12.855 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 33:12.895 --> 33:15.316 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was definitely worth that. 33:16.557 --> 33:17.998 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the feeling. 33:19.453 --> 33:22.894 [SPEAKER_01]: of moving into my first lawyering job. 33:23.814 --> 33:27.915 [SPEAKER_01]: The salary was $165,000 a year. 33:28.955 --> 33:32.775 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was more money than I had ever seen before. 33:33.976 --> 33:36.776 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it cost me, I'll be actually be clear with some numbers. 33:37.036 --> 33:37.236 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:37.536 --> 33:41.337 [SPEAKER_01]: It cost me over $200,000 of debt to go to law school. 33:41.357 --> 33:42.417 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just gonna say, there it is. 33:42.437 --> 33:43.397 [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing on numbers. 33:43.417 --> 33:46.098 [SPEAKER_01]: In China, you know, we were making, 33:47.519 --> 33:47.999 [SPEAKER_01]: quite little. 33:48.179 --> 33:55.363 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to get these numbers wrong, but I mean, it was probably, you know, less than $50,000 a year at least at the beginning. 33:55.744 --> 33:55.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:56.284 --> 33:59.046 [SPEAKER_01]: So the point was, like, I lived my 20s making very little money. 33:59.326 --> 33:59.806 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:00.446 --> 34:02.207 [SPEAKER_01]: Trying to think of that number was right in China. 34:03.008 --> 34:03.888 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't quote me on that one. 34:03.988 --> 34:11.073 [SPEAKER_02]: But it was, I remember you saying, I don't know why this number rings true or comes in my head, it doesn't ring true. 34:12.013 --> 34:17.196 [SPEAKER_02]: is I remember you seen something like 30 or 40 when we had first talked about it, but again, it doesn't necessarily. 34:17.496 --> 34:22.318 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it grew as Lord and I got married, but it's a reason all that money. 34:22.338 --> 34:24.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even in your support, like you would get raises. 34:24.599 --> 34:25.099 [SPEAKER_01]: God, I got it. 34:25.119 --> 34:27.060 [SPEAKER_00]: You would sort of give yourself raises by raising one money. 34:27.100 --> 34:28.521 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, yeah, here's the point. 34:28.561 --> 34:29.381 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm being too complex. 34:30.162 --> 34:35.084 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very little money, and then like my late 20s was going into a significant law school debt. 34:35.544 --> 34:38.446 [SPEAKER_01]: And then suddenly, you know, I got a job, which was like $165,000 a 34:41.527 --> 34:52.812 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it doesn't cover a lot because so much of it goes back to debt, but I just remember the first the feeling for the first time, like, I felt really proud going to learn to be like, I got a job that pays for what we need. 34:52.892 --> 34:59.475 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think like, some of the one good emotional office, um, because it's important. 34:59.515 --> 35:05.898 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like because I'm just expecting a lot of guys feel like I feel like you want to be able to provide for you. 35:06.318 --> 35:09.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can bet so much to me that I can pay for this. 35:09.739 --> 35:10.740 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what work are for you? 35:10.940 --> 35:23.904 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah And I like see my I don't know why it's emotional I see like the inner child. 35:24.184 --> 35:26.205 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I just want to do well. 35:26.425 --> 35:26.645 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:26.925 --> 35:28.546 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just want to be able to help you. 35:28.566 --> 35:30.226 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to do what I just do as a dad 35:33.123 --> 35:41.808 [SPEAKER_00]: And both of those things have continued like a demon happiness that I can provide and then a deep fear that I call. 35:42.249 --> 35:42.489 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:42.909 --> 35:44.090 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:44.950 --> 35:47.432 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me take a second why you just to give you a minute. 35:48.492 --> 35:50.093 [SPEAKER_02]: Lauren and the boys are blessed to have you. 35:52.054 --> 35:53.035 [SPEAKER_02]: They are your good man. 35:53.887 --> 35:55.228 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that. 35:55.528 --> 35:56.368 [SPEAKER_02]: I get to experience it. 35:56.828 --> 35:58.829 [SPEAKER_02]: And anybody that knows you, knows that. 35:58.929 --> 36:05.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're probably pretty hard on yourself that you're not a perfect man, but no one's expecting that but you. 36:06.973 --> 36:09.234 [SPEAKER_00]: So the perfect provider, so you are not. 36:09.854 --> 36:10.974 [SPEAKER_02]: The perfect man you are not. 36:11.375 --> 36:12.815 [SPEAKER_02]: And actually none of us expect that. 36:13.075 --> 36:16.697 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I just want to remind you, you're a gift to those. 36:17.497 --> 36:39.292 [SPEAKER_02]: Anybody that has proximity with you or it's at least to look in these moments and anybody listening you know, I think to truly just be grateful for lives like you're just and where you're honest about it and you know, we obviously, one of the things that has drawn us to each other's honesty vulnerability openness, yeah. 36:39.812 --> 36:43.596 [SPEAKER_02]: That was crying like a baby with you the other day the coffee shop in public. 36:43.676 --> 36:46.278 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I made you accidentally cry You just totally got me. 36:46.418 --> 36:47.139 [SPEAKER_00]: I did well. 36:47.399 --> 36:50.382 [SPEAKER_02]: I Your timing three days that we've had two good cries. 36:50.582 --> 36:51.343 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was funny. 36:51.623 --> 36:54.526 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's funny is Yeah, yours was better timing. 36:54.726 --> 36:57.829 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess you know, I guess I yours was worse timing cuz we're on a mic, but 36:59.270 --> 37:00.612 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't camera. 37:01.573 --> 37:03.615 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, can I just even encourage you? 37:03.735 --> 37:14.688 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're moving to a motion because I'm just going to, I'm going to just guess out of knowing you and just kind of understanding maybe more your heart because I know you're heart, you know? 37:15.549 --> 37:22.074 [SPEAKER_02]: is you have such a deep desire to care for those who've God's entrusted you with. 37:22.314 --> 37:22.514 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 37:22.994 --> 37:24.976 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's like so God given. 37:25.016 --> 37:26.497 [SPEAKER_02]: I think about all the men listening right now. 37:26.517 --> 37:28.398 [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, I want to provide better. 37:28.418 --> 37:32.081 [SPEAKER_02]: I just have been able to get the you before you were able to get the big check. 37:32.341 --> 37:32.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 37:32.761 --> 37:39.406 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that there is a good point of pride that you've been able to like do it. 37:39.626 --> 37:39.826 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 37:39.886 --> 37:41.167 [SPEAKER_02]: And you worked hard towards it. 37:41.768 --> 37:44.269 [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, it's just to encourage you, man. 37:46.333 --> 37:47.313 [SPEAKER_02]: your family's lucky to have. 37:47.333 --> 37:47.533 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 37:47.593 --> 37:49.994 [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate that. 37:50.114 --> 37:52.794 [SPEAKER_01]: I think as I'm reflecting on like wait, what? 37:54.074 --> 38:07.397 [SPEAKER_01]: What is needleing the emotion is I think I am at my best when I can see myself more like my kids than not and see other fathers as the children of God that they are. 38:07.497 --> 38:07.737 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 38:07.997 --> 38:14.438 [SPEAKER_00]: And when I think about that like it was almost a child, a childish happiness that I was like, 38:14.912 --> 38:16.154 [SPEAKER_02]: I did look at my chair. 38:16.194 --> 38:17.195 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, look what I did. 38:17.215 --> 38:19.719 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, are you sad for 10 years ago, right? 38:19.739 --> 38:19.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 38:20.199 --> 38:22.763 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking that's you as like, what's the point in your life? 38:22.903 --> 38:28.430 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just guessing like there's a lot of dads out there who are worth their 38:30.147 --> 38:32.768 [SPEAKER_01]: We're children in real senses. 38:32.828 --> 38:36.129 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're just, we, yeah, so badly wanna do well. 38:36.729 --> 38:43.871 [SPEAKER_01]: And like some of you are laid off and you're so embarrassed about it or not making what you thought or you're making so much and you're so proud of it. 38:43.891 --> 38:47.992 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, honestly, like I'm thinking about all of us father's listening and talking. 38:48.753 --> 38:51.893 [SPEAKER_00]: Like my boys, like they're just trying so hard. 38:52.394 --> 38:54.874 [SPEAKER_01]: And they need a dad to be like, you're doing okay. 38:54.914 --> 38:56.315 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, if you fail, 38:57.435 --> 38:58.976 [SPEAKER_00]: So pal, he there for you. 38:59.036 --> 39:05.098 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like my course my Heavenly Father is saying that like he's saying he's so proud of me Yes, he is also like look if you fail. 39:05.138 --> 39:05.839 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna be there for you. 39:05.859 --> 39:09.140 [SPEAKER_01]: I have so Hmm, it's hard to trust that second part right now. 39:09.160 --> 39:09.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 39:09.720 --> 39:12.682 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm once that second part I'll be there for you He'll be there for me if I fail. 39:12.962 --> 39:17.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like that if I actually lost it all Would would I be okay? 39:17.744 --> 39:21.805 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, and that's Yeah, no, that's I'm like oh my gosh. 39:21.825 --> 39:22.466 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still a child 39:23.346 --> 39:24.089 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what though? 39:24.329 --> 39:29.083 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what you're saying is, why we need each other? 39:29.384 --> 39:29.684 [SPEAKER_02]: Because 39:31.719 --> 39:37.363 [SPEAKER_02]: I need people to look into my life and be proud of me, like a parent would, with my parents can't. 39:38.444 --> 39:50.152 [SPEAKER_02]: Ideally, that would come from a family, but there's a moment in time where you still have the insecurities of a small boy, manhood is just showing you how to hide them. 39:51.213 --> 39:52.294 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that is so well said. 39:52.874 --> 39:54.875 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, what we said again for our listeners? 39:54.996 --> 39:56.857 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's actually really good. 39:56.897 --> 40:00.499 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we all have still the insecurities of a small boy 40:01.640 --> 40:04.321 [SPEAKER_02]: shown us how to hide them or taught us how to hide them. 40:04.401 --> 40:04.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:05.062 --> 40:06.582 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we're good at hiding them. 40:07.203 --> 40:23.010 [SPEAKER_02]: But when we can be just honest, safe, vulnerable, these words that, you know, men we can get frustrated by, but are still just as important as any other word is to say like, we just at the end of the day need someone to see us for real and to be proud of us. 40:23.210 --> 40:23.410 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 40:24.153 --> 40:30.376 [SPEAKER_02]: And to, and to know that if you fail, it doesn't affect my love, right? 40:30.396 --> 40:31.497 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, that's the heavenly Father. 40:31.517 --> 40:44.803 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's unconditional love, but it's so bizarre how even knowing that in our minds in maybe parts of our heart that we so quickly go to conditional love, that we so quickly go to, well, you bless me only if I do these things. 40:45.443 --> 40:49.429 [SPEAKER_02]: And even though we don't think that that's how we live. 40:49.669 --> 41:00.525 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I would even just say to you, Justin, but I'll say to anyone listening, it is uncomfortable and hard to get comfortable with unconditional love. 41:01.305 --> 41:05.128 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it doesn't, there's nothing in our metric that makes, it doesn't make sense. 41:05.268 --> 41:10.592 [SPEAKER_02]: It makes no sense that God would be, I feel like the amount of grace God gives to me is an uncomfortable amount. 41:10.712 --> 41:12.073 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's unfair all the time. 41:12.494 --> 41:13.394 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know what I mean? 41:13.714 --> 41:18.038 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that you have talked us to the gospel at the center of greed. 41:18.858 --> 41:21.840 [SPEAKER_01]: It just strikes me like what you're saying and what I just share is like, 41:22.901 --> 41:26.065 [SPEAKER_01]: How does an adopted son of the king? 41:26.085 --> 41:28.367 [SPEAKER_01]: To worry about money. 41:29.128 --> 41:36.417 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it just gosh, that's good, because it's convicting and the best ways, but it's also a beautiful and the best way. 41:36.477 --> 41:38.319 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I'm a son of the king. 41:38.579 --> 41:40.241 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I inherited everything. 41:40.281 --> 41:41.862 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, none of which I deserve. 41:41.882 --> 41:42.222 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 41:42.523 --> 41:42.863 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 41:43.243 --> 41:44.184 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel better about money. 41:44.204 --> 41:46.346 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me let that go a little bit or a lot bit. 41:46.366 --> 41:47.247 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me be more generous. 41:47.767 --> 41:48.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 41:48.348 --> 41:49.669 [SPEAKER_01]: It is the only solution, right? 41:49.729 --> 41:50.249 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes. 41:50.390 --> 41:55.394 [SPEAKER_01]: What else can conquer the love of money that's the root of all evil that brings so much grief is first Timothy. 41:55.414 --> 41:58.617 [SPEAKER_01]: I think 610 says, but but the good news of the gospel that like. 41:59.318 --> 42:00.298 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a son and daughter. 42:00.338 --> 42:02.701 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, do you release it? 42:03.041 --> 42:04.843 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and you're right. 42:05.583 --> 42:11.049 [SPEAKER_02]: That's an important thing to make very clear the the virtue is generosity. 42:11.169 --> 42:12.350 [SPEAKER_02]: It's learning to give away 42:14.458 --> 42:20.904 [SPEAKER_02]: anything that you would even get to a spot or be open to it and I think that doesn't mean you're going to have to or need to. 42:22.165 --> 42:35.157 [SPEAKER_02]: But a question I would just maybe even encourage all of us myself included by the way all this I'm asking the questions right but this all pertains to me too and so but to even ask the deeper question for all of us listening. 42:36.792 --> 42:44.182 [SPEAKER_02]: In your life, if you're wondering like, you know, Justin, if you're wondering if anyone's listening wondering like, oh my gosh, am I attached to this thing? 42:45.691 --> 42:49.532 [SPEAKER_02]: I, we have to remember, God knows how to speak to us in a way that we can understand. 42:50.312 --> 43:05.996 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're sitting, if you're sincere and setting a times, setting time aside, reading scripture, praying, seeking wise counsel and asking the Steve question, like, God, am I using my money to honor you and is there something you want me to change? 43:06.316 --> 43:11.177 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're sincere about this, but he can speak to you in a way that you can understand. 43:11.277 --> 43:13.618 [SPEAKER_02]: It won't be a weird thing you have to figure out, you'll know. 43:14.358 --> 43:15.419 [SPEAKER_02]: God is my house too big. 43:15.599 --> 43:19.663 [SPEAKER_02]: It have I become a part of the American system, you know? 43:20.143 --> 43:21.384 [SPEAKER_02]: Is am I blinded by greed? 43:21.424 --> 43:24.407 [SPEAKER_02]: These are prayers that actually, by the way, God wants to answer. 43:24.427 --> 43:24.807 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 43:24.827 --> 43:28.390 [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to go, dude, you are, or you aren't, or whatever. 43:28.850 --> 43:36.837 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I really just, I would just say, if that is a concern for real, if you are truly concerned, begin to ask God, if He will just reveal it to you. 43:36.937 --> 43:43.520 [SPEAKER_01]: It is kind of comicly useful how many of our application points have just been will pray about this face. 43:43.680 --> 43:44.261 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're right. 43:44.621 --> 43:46.502 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we talked about greed last night. 43:46.522 --> 43:47.422 [SPEAKER_00]: So I gluttony last time. 43:47.442 --> 43:49.163 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, hey, ask God. 43:49.964 --> 43:51.604 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about prayer with your spouse. 43:51.624 --> 43:52.565 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I thought to loss. 43:52.585 --> 43:55.106 [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about prayer in generals and answered it to a CDN. 43:55.506 --> 43:56.687 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a loss. 43:56.867 --> 43:59.749 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're just terrifically on point here. 43:59.869 --> 44:04.111 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have lost a little bit of trust that God could get through to me on this because I'm so 44:06.972 --> 44:10.116 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just a lovely reminder, his sheep do know his voice. 44:10.476 --> 44:17.445 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Justin, you hear God so clearly and let another man praise you not your own lips. 44:17.585 --> 44:22.671 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's important to say, God, you neatly given you insight and a heart that loves him. 44:25.588 --> 44:38.347 [SPEAKER_02]: You got us decided through your obedience, but also calling in an and anointing and gifting to help so many countless people through writing through this podcast, through these events that we do. 44:39.315 --> 44:46.279 [SPEAKER_02]: God's using your life, and you know that, but I think it's important to remind you that he is getting through to you. 44:46.700 --> 44:47.940 [SPEAKER_02]: He gets through to you all the time. 44:48.601 --> 44:57.926 [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, it's pride that would make you think that your intellect is what has gotten back content, and I know that's not what you think, but what I'm trying to highlight is like, 44:59.027 --> 45:03.788 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, it's too good to just be a human. 45:04.068 --> 45:08.689 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the stuff that you've done is your human effort, accompanied by the Holy Spirit. 45:08.729 --> 45:14.791 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I think it's so powerful and that's no like, you know, I'm good at a good under a backing and compliment. 45:14.871 --> 45:15.511 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not that. 45:16.511 --> 45:17.352 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I can give a good one. 45:17.692 --> 45:23.273 [SPEAKER_02]: But the point I'm trying to make is like, it's to say, it's to honor what you do because 45:27.677 --> 45:31.956 [SPEAKER_02]: I just think the bigger thing as I continue even this conversation. 45:33.580 --> 45:38.762 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is the thing that all of us struggle with, but I think men especially in our moment struggle with. 45:39.503 --> 45:41.864 [SPEAKER_02]: You gotta be comfortable with not being perfect. 45:42.244 --> 45:53.309 [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to be comfortable with the fact that it's a process and you still, and you are, you are, the example is beautifully, be open to the fact that you're not perfect and be open to change. 45:53.709 --> 45:55.269 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what this conversation is. 45:55.309 --> 46:00.472 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, let me just be honest about the fact that I feel embarrassed about this. 46:01.272 --> 46:07.935 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I think this conversation hopefully just gives you some hope that it is not more complicated than this, it looks like this. 46:08.055 --> 46:17.618 [SPEAKER_02]: I think most, we talk about this a lot most men lack models or not even in what we first say, we're not claiming to be the best models or anything like that of what fatherhood is. 46:18.118 --> 46:25.661 [SPEAKER_02]: But we do hope to say like through a lot of treasury and fear and pain, we figured out some stuff and some of the stuff we figured out is like man, right? 46:25.901 --> 46:27.082 [SPEAKER_02]: Find some friends talk to him about it. 46:27.102 --> 46:29.122 [SPEAKER_02]: Be honest, be open, be a place of safety, 46:30.883 --> 46:32.644 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so helpful and powerful. 46:32.664 --> 46:35.746 [SPEAKER_02]: And so this is an example that thank you. 46:36.106 --> 46:51.213 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very kind and wise that did remind me one thing that I think has been great in my life on this is there has not been a major financial decision where I haven't told numbers to a friend. 46:51.694 --> 46:54.055 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, most recent one was like this car. 46:54.735 --> 47:01.320 [SPEAKER_01]: You think it's appropriate to buy this car and I told you for the number and we talked about like, is this a wise choice for your family? 47:01.620 --> 47:03.381 [SPEAKER_01]: We also did it with the house. 47:04.141 --> 47:20.132 [SPEAKER_01]: I would commend everybody to be very specific about your finances with somebody like bank account numbers or amount of purchases because just like you don't want to be alone on the internet with regard to lust. 47:20.732 --> 47:22.733 [SPEAKER_01]: you don't want to be alone with a wallet in America. 47:23.574 --> 47:30.378 [SPEAKER_01]: You will be, you will be fooled by your own greed, probably, not probably. 47:30.558 --> 47:31.579 [SPEAKER_01]: You will be fooled by hearing greed. 47:31.639 --> 47:33.140 [SPEAKER_01]: You need somebody else in it. 47:33.160 --> 47:34.941 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just, I would commend that. 47:34.981 --> 47:37.523 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't, I don't think that's protected me from everything. 47:37.983 --> 47:40.384 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's a threshold necessary practice. 47:40.444 --> 47:43.306 [SPEAKER_01]: You said, ask God, and you're, you're 47:46.288 --> 47:54.851 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, with numbers of specific numbers, I agree and it's, it's not about I think we get lost in the number piece. 47:55.211 --> 48:07.176 [SPEAKER_02]: It's about heart and I do think that the gospel's still not to go the scriptures specifically are very clear that it is truly more blessed to give them to receive. 48:08.196 --> 48:18.320 [SPEAKER_02]: And when you've been given much, this is Roman stuff, your Genesis, sorry, Genesis, you're blessed to be a blessing. 48:18.900 --> 48:20.301 [SPEAKER_02]: You are, why are you blessed? 48:20.501 --> 48:21.721 [SPEAKER_02]: So you can bless me. 48:21.881 --> 48:25.662 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, we know that, but like, start, where can you practice that? 48:25.783 --> 48:30.024 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, where can you give secretly in the most positive way? 48:30.084 --> 48:31.985 [SPEAKER_02]: Where can you and your family? 48:32.885 --> 48:34.946 [SPEAKER_02]: Come around and go, who could we guys? 48:35.146 --> 48:35.946 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's a hundred bucks. 48:36.006 --> 48:37.266 [SPEAKER_02]: Who could we bless this week? 48:37.446 --> 48:38.707 [SPEAKER_02]: Like boys, who do you want to bless? 48:38.727 --> 48:42.148 [SPEAKER_02]: Like my girl's girls and Duke, who do we want to bless this week? 48:42.968 --> 48:55.672 [SPEAKER_02]: And I won't even go into much detail, but as a practice as a family, one of the things that is fun to do is to find a need that we can see that somebody's not asking for and try to meet it. 48:55.752 --> 48:56.712 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's cool. 48:57.152 --> 48:59.094 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, again, this is not a pat on the back. 48:59.174 --> 49:00.514 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just telling you it's so fun. 49:00.675 --> 49:01.835 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's so fun. 49:01.935 --> 49:07.900 [SPEAKER_02]: And another thing is if you budget, which I please, I'm just telling you you don't budget. 49:08.580 --> 49:09.300 [SPEAKER_02]: Freakin budget. 49:09.381 --> 49:10.121 [SPEAKER_02]: That's all I can say. 49:10.181 --> 49:11.202 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I guess we should have messed up. 49:11.222 --> 49:12.423 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, threshold matters. 49:12.443 --> 49:13.303 [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you're trying to do. 49:13.323 --> 49:13.944 [SPEAKER_01]: But not budgeting. 49:14.184 --> 49:14.504 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not. 49:14.924 --> 49:16.686 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, there's some things we're skipping here. 49:16.726 --> 49:20.588 [SPEAKER_02]: But like, anyway, there, that's a whole other conversation which we're happy to have. 49:21.309 --> 49:22.570 [SPEAKER_02]: But I would, I would say, 49:23.410 --> 49:29.174 [SPEAKER_02]: have a line item in there of generosity, that's not tithe, like it's not. 49:29.794 --> 49:36.359 [SPEAKER_02]: So we have this fund, it's called the generosity fund, and why we have it is because what we want to hopefully do. 49:36.519 --> 49:40.101 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I don't, I'm not sharing this for any pat on the back. 49:40.121 --> 49:42.703 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying, this is such a cool way. 49:43.283 --> 49:49.428 [SPEAKER_02]: I think in our life that we try to come back, read, is we have a generosity fund and we put money in it. 49:49.708 --> 49:51.809 [SPEAKER_02]: And what's cool about it is Elizabeth and I 49:54.627 --> 50:02.892 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll look at each other and we'll just, if there's a need, we'll just say, generosity fund, like it's a cool thing, like is that, and that can even, you're generosity also sometimes can go to your kids. 50:03.232 --> 50:03.812 [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome. 50:03.832 --> 50:10.776 [SPEAKER_02]: So sometimes it's like, this kid would, like, be really blessed by this thing that honestly, like, it's not in our budget to do. 50:11.036 --> 50:12.797 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but man it would be a get. 50:12.817 --> 50:15.138 [SPEAKER_02]: Now we don't usually do it within the family. 50:15.198 --> 50:26.403 [SPEAKER_02]: It's usually an external, but it's just an opportunity to like, man, this person wants to do this thing and the only thing stopping them is a flight, you know, generosity fund or whatever, and including your kids in that to pick one. 50:27.343 --> 50:27.864 [SPEAKER_02]: to it. 50:27.944 --> 50:30.285 [SPEAKER_02]: And they pick godly stuff to it to love that. 50:30.325 --> 50:30.886 [SPEAKER_02]: They really do. 50:30.946 --> 50:37.911 [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess it's just to say like that those are just like maybe some tangibles of ways to combat and to turn your heart. 50:38.292 --> 50:40.954 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to say something that's important about. 50:42.495 --> 50:44.977 [SPEAKER_02]: I talk a lot about generational sin because it's affected me. 50:45.697 --> 50:51.942 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to also talk about generational blessing and one thing that my dad taught me. 50:53.473 --> 50:54.716 [SPEAKER_02]: was generosity. 50:54.877 --> 51:01.333 [SPEAKER_02]: He was weirdly and I say weirdly because of his whole life like it didn't actually make sense to me. 51:03.032 --> 51:06.115 [SPEAKER_02]: Because he actually grew it like there was money was always hard when he was younger. 51:07.296 --> 51:13.502 [SPEAKER_02]: But he was one of the more generous people I have ever met, ever, about all sorts of things. 51:14.343 --> 51:15.123 [SPEAKER_02]: Big and small. 51:15.464 --> 51:17.726 [SPEAKER_02]: And he didn't necessarily make a ton of extra money. 51:17.866 --> 51:22.810 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think it's important to note that like I think even my heart ached towards that was... 51:23.531 --> 51:24.972 [SPEAKER_02]: because he just did it. 51:25.193 --> 51:30.097 [SPEAKER_02]: He would constantly, how to friend move in with me has been, been moved in with us as a family. 51:30.758 --> 51:31.939 [SPEAKER_02]: And he made Ben pay rent. 51:31.959 --> 51:33.681 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, if you're gonna live, you're gonna pay rent. 51:33.881 --> 51:34.401 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, okay. 51:35.302 --> 51:38.065 [SPEAKER_02]: Now Ben just thought it was just like, you know, okay, that makes sense. 51:38.645 --> 51:40.167 [SPEAKER_02]: My dad saved that money every month. 51:40.207 --> 51:45.132 [SPEAKER_02]: So when he moved out, he could have money to actually put a down payment like on an apartment. 51:45.812 --> 51:47.214 [SPEAKER_02]: So he forced him to save it. 51:47.854 --> 51:48.735 [SPEAKER_02]: he gave it all back. 51:48.755 --> 51:49.475 [SPEAKER_02]: He gave it all back to him. 51:49.576 --> 51:55.300 [SPEAKER_02]: When he left, he's like, and as you're going, here's this money so you can actually have a deposit for an apartment, you know. 51:57.082 --> 51:58.583 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the kind of, like, that's incredible. 51:58.603 --> 51:59.264 [SPEAKER_02]: That's really cool. 51:59.284 --> 51:59.884 [SPEAKER_02]: That's incredible. 51:59.964 --> 52:09.292 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think it's those like, it's stuff like like be creative with how you can be generous because that is the end to the system of greed, of greed. 52:09.932 --> 52:13.976 [SPEAKER_02]: And we all have more capacity to be generous myself, especially 52:15.537 --> 52:31.090 [SPEAKER_02]: Those are things that I think are helpful and just thank you for thanks for going there today, thanks for just like, you know, being honest about where this is at and I mean welcome to the club, we all have we all have these parts of our heart that are constantly being invited to more. 52:32.563 --> 52:35.906 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this has been fun and interesting and emotional. 52:37.007 --> 52:45.535 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you have a great view of the lawyer or systematic thinker writer and me wants to put a neat bow on it and it's not there. 52:45.816 --> 52:46.516 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 52:46.756 --> 52:47.337 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't need to be. 52:47.697 --> 52:55.445 [SPEAKER_01]: I do, I would say one of the hopes is we've said from the beginning, take your sense seriously, be curious about it so you can figure out what's underneath it. 52:55.505 --> 52:55.725 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 52:57.758 --> 53:00.920 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope I felt like it just happened a little bit. 53:00.940 --> 53:02.081 [SPEAKER_01]: I have some stuff to think about. 53:02.821 --> 53:08.425 [SPEAKER_01]: And for Americans, when it comes to greed and money, think we have a lot to think about. 53:08.505 --> 53:14.509 [SPEAKER_01]: So go forth, listen, and be curious, ask a friend, ask God, they will talk to you. 53:14.709 --> 53:15.810 [SPEAKER_01]: He will absolutely talk to you. 53:16.670 --> 53:20.896 [SPEAKER_01]: But probably assuming that your fine is the only wrong response. 53:23.039 --> 53:23.520 [SPEAKER_01]: We need help. 53:23.861 --> 53:24.582 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, for all of us. 53:24.722 --> 53:24.982 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 53:25.203 --> 53:30.650 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think to even some the last six episodes, this is the sixth one. 53:32.112 --> 53:33.833 [SPEAKER_02]: There, we need help in all of them. 53:33.993 --> 53:39.837 [SPEAKER_02]: We do, we really do and wherever you're at, there is permission and there's grace for you. 53:40.517 --> 53:42.338 [SPEAKER_02]: If it's really bad and dark right now, it's okay. 53:42.719 --> 53:43.699 [SPEAKER_02]: There's permission and grace. 53:43.899 --> 53:47.261 [SPEAKER_02]: God is inviting you into something that doesn't even feel like a fair amount of grace. 53:48.002 --> 53:51.984 [SPEAKER_02]: But yours right now, and it's okay if you're the greedyest person in the world. 53:52.805 --> 53:56.307 [SPEAKER_02]: But if your heart's cracked open enough for the spirit to get to you right now, 53:57.860 --> 54:01.864 [SPEAKER_02]: There's beauty awaiting you if you can just take that one small step of obedience. 54:02.064 --> 54:07.170 [SPEAKER_02]: And if there's anything that I've learned about obedience, I share this with you a little bit, the other night. 54:07.790 --> 54:10.713 [SPEAKER_02]: But there is a massive wall of blessing. 54:11.474 --> 54:15.558 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a massive stored up amount of blessing hiding behind the wall of obedience. 54:15.578 --> 54:17.240 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love that way you put that 54:17.700 --> 54:21.362 [SPEAKER_02]: And how do you begin to break down that wall? 54:21.842 --> 54:23.303 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, just think of a dam, right? 54:23.363 --> 54:27.925 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, a little rock cracks through, and some water goes, that's the first step of obedience. 54:28.486 --> 54:34.068 [SPEAKER_02]: And then all the other steps are super easy, and there's some massive amount of blessing follow those obedience. 54:34.329 --> 54:40.932 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what it's like in our faith, in our Christian walk is there's blessings just waiting for you. 54:40.992 --> 54:42.573 [SPEAKER_02]: How long are you gonna wait? 54:42.593 --> 54:44.334 [SPEAKER_02]: I think about the countless people that have died. 54:44.894 --> 54:53.297 [SPEAKER_02]: with massive blessings that God's just wanted to give, but there are still blocks behind of all of obedience because God that's honoring and just and all that stuff. 54:53.317 --> 54:56.057 [SPEAKER_02]: So what is your, what's your obedience? 54:56.077 --> 54:58.498 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think God really is like inviting blessing. 54:58.578 --> 55:02.059 [SPEAKER_01]: So being cursed, that's the good one. 55:02.839 --> 55:06.220 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll come to pride, the queen of sins next week. 55:06.580 --> 55:07.821 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that phrase the queen of sins. 55:07.841 --> 55:09.841 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, let's talk more about pride. 55:10.041 --> 55:10.642 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't invent it. 55:10.662 --> 55:11.882 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about the queen next week.