[SPEAKER_00]: Hey everybody, JJ Cooper, Jeff Ponds, we're back again another of the baseball America hot prospect deep dives and we're going to need topical today because we're talking about the cubs and I will say we were already kind of circling around whether we get to the cubs pretty quick, but then
[SPEAKER_00]: recording this on Wednesday evening to come up on Thursday.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the the Edward Cabera trade news started breaking and we're like, okay, we're definitely doing the cubs today.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, that's where we're going to start this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, normally on the deep thoughts, we don't press off the, you know, the the social media post of of the trades and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the deal that is
[SPEAKER_00]: The Cubs just acquired from the Marlons, and RecoveryA steps right into the rotation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in return, they did give up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see that scroll on the bottom there, a baseball there, because Cubs top five prospects made a change there.
[SPEAKER_00]: See that number two, Jackson Wiggins, Jackson Wiggins, number three, until very recently, because Owen K.C.
[SPEAKER_00]: was number two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just kind of kick it to you to kind of take us through
[SPEAKER_00]: What the cubs gave up since this is a cubs deep dive and if for those marlin fans, they're what the marlin are getting, but I'll start it by saying this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Think it's fair to say that the return we saw here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably indicates that there are some concerns with Edward Cabrero who's been not exactly a picture of health as a picture over the last five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: If he was rock solid, obus guy is durable to go with the quality stuff he has, I think that the return would be heavier.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like that this, if you look at this return and compare it say to the Shane Bos return, turn felt lighter to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now what you kind of take that take us away, Jeff, I want you to think you wrote up the trade for us up at
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think there's some obvious knocks with Cabrera.
[SPEAKER_02]: First off, the health, 137 and two-thirds innings in 2025, is his career high in a major league season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Health has kind of always been an issue dating back to his time as a prospect.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were elbow flare ups and concerns, that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Miss some time and September I think is the elbow flared up again did make 26 starts so showed more durability than he had but you know
[SPEAKER_02]: He has big stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: He throws really hard and he'll light up the radar gun.
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll hit 100 miles per hour at peak.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the fastball isn't very good.
[SPEAKER_02]: The foreseen and he's thrown for a while and really cut back on last season.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he threw it like 12, 13% of the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mix is in a sinker which is better, newer pitch, a little bit more refined last year.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure a lot more command with a sinker than he had previously.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he leans into his secondaries.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's one of the better curveballs in baseball.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably a plus change up and at least in above average, to maybe a plus slider, all three of those pitches play.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the modern game, I don't think that that's necessarily sort of
[SPEAKER_02]: the red flag that it might have been years ago, especially for a guy who throws his heart as Cabrera does.
[SPEAKER_02]: I still think with his spin traits and some of that stuff, there's maybe more projection for
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe slightly better fastball quality, you know, he did drop.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think is our mango by like six degrees last year, which is pretty significant.
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe there's a better fastball there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the cubs kind of identified that as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Beyond that, the sinker does get ground balls.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a ground ball right near 50% he does get swings and misses.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's got three years of control left.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is his first year of arbitration and because of what the injury history has been, it's a really reasonable projected number of like, you know, a say between like 2.5 and 3.5 million, which opens up some money for the Cubs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also think,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, on the other side of this, just thinking from like a roster flexibility standpoint, we talked weeks ago when we were going through the NL Central doing some of our different podcasts.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when we talked about the cubs, we talked about guys like Owen Casey getting stale.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this actually allows them a little bit more roster flexibility, a little bit more flexibility to maybe make another, another trade here.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not in full desperation mode when they're going to the negotiating table and you know bargaining table and saying, hey,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we know that you guys need to move one of these outfielders.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's like there's enough positions that maybe they can move, you know, Alcantara and Horner and somebody else and a deal to get another pitcher.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe upgrade one of the outfield positions and kind of replace some of the production of like a Kyle Tucker.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of different directions they can go now and they kind of needed to do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like the Oreos a few years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were, you know, begging them to make
[SPEAKER_02]: They went out and did that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got a controllable guy who's going to his prime, who's shown some development over the last couple of years at the major league level.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's just the matter of health and that's probably why they didn't have to swing another big piece in this trade.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they would probably have to be somebody from their top five, whether that be Wiggins, whether that be Balisteros, whether that maybe be Ethan Conrad, who might be a player that the
[SPEAKER_02]: elements to this trade that are really interesting, whether it be the return, and just, you know, sort of how it leaves the cub system, which is still pretty strong at the top, but a little bit weaker overall, losing two prospects in the top 20.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also it's at the right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So on KC, like that's obviously the big guy to give up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the top 100 prospect, one of the few that we've seen traded this off season.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a guy who, you know, we'll get into it a little bit more, but like we, you know, when we talk about like, who, you know, the battle for number one prospect in this organization, you know, could just step right into the Marlins lineup should be basically middle of the order type back with that power and all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's,
[SPEAKER_00]: The other two guys they traded, Christian Hernandez, you're right up medically, or like he was slated it to be their number 16, he was our number 16 prospect in our just updated today, rankings up at baseballamerican.com before, you know, or yesterday when you're hearing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but just updated before this, he was our number 16 prospect.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's also, he's probably utility infielding the day and then it's a guard of daily own is basically the epitome of the flyer throw in third prospect in a deal where chances are five years from now, most likely, will be going.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what was that third guy in the Cabrera deal, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: And every now and then one of these guys turns into like, oh, this guy ended up hitting 25 30 bombs in a season in the big leagues, but it is a far away flyer, a good defensive and filter who questions about how he's going to hit and then one kind of like, okay, this is a cornerstone type piece.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good if I'm if I'm a cubs fan, I'm probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: pretty excited about being able to get a guy who steps right into like being a, if healthy, a playoff starter, if they make the playoffs for that not a back of the rotation of the further rotation starter and do that by only trading away one really, one piece that really hurts is the way I would go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I would think that maybe hurts a little bit less because of the surplus you have, even if he might have been the preferred option in a corner outfield spot over Kevin Alcantara.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the same token, what Alcantara maybe gives up a little bit at the plate.
[SPEAKER_02]: He certainly makes up for in the field.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if that's the direction they go, it's a pretty dynamic outfield with him and Picro Armstrong for trolling a good chunk of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you could put anybody in left frankly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to be honest, if they don't make a trade, none of those guys, Casey and Alcantara still, like Alcantara still not a starter, unless they make a trade.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, you could say, well, Suzuki's going to de-a to a good bit or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he's probably not.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, you know, like, they've got balisteros, who is the perfect segue to are the number one prospect in the Cub system.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is this balisteros?
[SPEAKER_00]: Catcher.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say catch or slash DH and you might want to put that DH part there and in some pretty heavy bold type there probably, you know, made it up last year will again, and probably get quality at bats for the Cubs in the big leagues in 2026, he was number one, let's include Casey in this because Casey was number two, how close was the decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, did it really like them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did Jackson ligand to number three at the time fit into this as well?
[SPEAKER_00]: How clearly was Balisteros?
[SPEAKER_00]: And why was he the number one prospect?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, honestly, I could have gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: any directions with, you know, any of the top three.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think if Jackson Wiggins, you know, I was more confident in Wiggins' health, he might have been number one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think talent wise, he's maybe the most exciting upside of the three.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think when you talk to people within the organization, you talk to scouts outside the organization, there's just such confidence in Bala's terrorists' hit tool.
[SPEAKER_02]: The ability to put the bat in the ball, hit a variety of different types of pitches, really not be overmatched the big league level immediately.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's more power projection there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw him hit a home run in Pittsburgh actually in a big league game off of Yohan, Oviedo, so kind of an interesting trade tie in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a bomb.
[SPEAKER_02]: He almost hit it out of P and C park, you know, to write center field.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the hardest bit balls I think I saw this year, it might have even been like a 114.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's there, if the angles improve, and I'll say if I'm going to bet on a certain style of hitter to add improved angles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we talked about this in our reds podcast a couple days back.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's guys that have that innate bat to ball ability like a south steward who did make that change.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bavasteros kind of in a similar tier might even be a better contact with maybe a little bit more aggressive approach I think you can tighten up that approach a little bit maybe improve those angles and this could be you know a 25 to 30 home run guy he hits the ball hard and he's strong.
[SPEAKER_02]: The big question with him has always been the defense, I do think they're going to let him catch a little bit, but it might be more like 30 to 40 games, maybe 50 being the ceiling if there's some injuries, he'll be in the mix, but it's it they're going to pick their spots with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: when his career is over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we talking 500?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we talking 150 early in his career?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we go, okay, now they've officially made the move.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a DH slash first base or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'll put it this way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where my number would go if I was, you know, handicap in this like a hundred, maybe even.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't think it's gonna last too long and I really think it's gonna be just,
[SPEAKER_02]: sort of to see if it can work a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually the bat just takes over and it's like wife and father.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like David Ortiz played some first base with a Minnesota twins kind of thing, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: David areas at the time if I remember correctly, yeah, then that was with C. That was Seattle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you got to see out of here, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Seattle, and then there was a T's.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was Ortiz, it's Seattle, because then you remember and prior to the trade, a man old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me to, me to definitely me to.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: So like you said, Jackson Wiggins, you said, like kind of he took some time mid-season, they basically kind of shut him down, not big for to be cut on or anything like that, but they took some time basically just to kind of limit his workload.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed like more than anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the other one who does kind of stand out here, though, that like the thing about this Cub system at the top of it, you said, it's a really good top, and this kind of leads into the next question, which is, how's the system better or worse than last year?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a rare system where you could say, a lot of it's still just kind of the same, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know they just prayed at KC, but before that, it's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: coming into 25, it was like you had Moizus Baustero so the upper level of the miners and Owen Casey and Kevin Alcantara and James Triantos and Jonathan Long, and a later what you had the next year was as you had all of those guys also still coming into this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all spent much of last year in AAA.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say I think it's worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's worse at the top too, because you know, never want to, I have my trusty handbook here, is always keeping right by my side order one, that's a little plug.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kate Horton and Matt Shaw, two guys who established themselves in the major leagues, two varying degrees, but we're everyday players.
[SPEAKER_02]: In Shaw's case, and then obviously, Horton was a rookie of the year candidate.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think you sort of look at that and you say, all right, well, it's still pretty strong at the top.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's worse, you're not attracting Casey from that mix.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I think you look at,
[SPEAKER_02]: the amount of sort of interesting lower minors guys that they had either sign of the international market who made their state side debuts or debuts last year and then some of the guys they had grabbed in the draft high school guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of those guys didn't pan out, some better than others, they moved a couple of them in a trade with the nationals.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that looks a little bit worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Brain and bird cell looked like he was in the cusp of at least being on the 40-man roster and maybe making some starch for the cubs this year and just kind of being in the mix.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe as a long, long guy or spot starter, he got injured and then eventually got cut on and had atomic John surgery.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he had some sort of elbow surgery and much specific on the surgery.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he's out for probably all of next season.
[SPEAKER_02]: If not a little longer.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think you look at all those those factors and and yeah, the depth is a little bit worse and the tops a little bit worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think overall it hasn't gotten better.
[SPEAKER_02]: They drafted it in Colorado who is a really interesting player.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the cane capley has had a great debut and looks at a really interesting player.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the upside in the system is probably there and you have to hope that, you know, Dominic Reed, Caleb Williams, some of these pictures that they drafted, turned it to be at least interesting pitching prospects, which is something that's been lacking in the system for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as you said, this is a system where you're rolling along and then you get somewhere
[SPEAKER_00]: you quickly flip from this guy could be a regular.
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy's really interesting too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this sounds like a role player.
[SPEAKER_00]: This sounds like a reliever.
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of transition, it comes pretty quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't don't gradually ease into it in the system anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which you did, I would say, like you said, it was deeper a year ago because most of the guys that we're talking about right now were there, but then you had other guys at the top as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: ask the question.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like when you look at, when we're say like who could be the number one prospect in the system a year from now, I do think with this team, that's a really interesting question because Bollesteros, if he doesn't graduate this year, what happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's close to graduation right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would assume that a healthy Jackson Wiggins is going to graduate, as you
[SPEAKER_00]: There's still a number of other guys in the top 10 or on the cost of the top 10, who if they don't graduate or get traded, you're gonna be like, you know, like you're now officially a, you know, you are a resident of, you know, you are now an island, you know, at that point because you've been an island for this long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, who do you think could be the number one prospect?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you expect?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's most likely to be the number one prospect
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think, you know, the Jackson Wiggins question is interesting, because I think there is a scenario where he begins to season in AAA has a really good year and depending on some moves still to come or just health in the rotation, maybe he's not up until August.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's still eligible and has a good year and is like the slam dunk number one almost like the Nolan McLean or the tray is savage sort of path.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just in terms of when they get up right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all like the guy who you see enough of it in the big leagues here Like this is guys looks like the best pitching from us back, but he's still technically eligible Any answers that question and maybe like building up to like 130 innings or something like that right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that would answer a lot of questions for him, especially if he maintains the stuff and we see You know him get through the order a couple of times and sort of the the quality of some of the secondarys as well
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say if I'm a comes fan, that's a dream because if I was a comes fan, the dream for that would be that you also mean that the rotation is incredibly healthy this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's best to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Read every one, every hate hoarding, make a 35 star, every cover house, make a 30, let's say 30 starts, every cover house, making 30 starts.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you've got like up and down the rotation, it's like, wow, no one missed time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe, and you know, it's a why it is a wide open division and, you know, maybe maybe he's, you know, pitching the playoff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like I think that's the best case scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we can't ignore that.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's number two, but just lay that out.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also the scenario that he's up and he's good and he graduates.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a pretty good scenario as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's the scenario where he gets hurt or he's not as good, then.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not as enticing as the number one, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Jefferson Rhohaas is an interesting prospect.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really think about him as a number one prospect in a system.
[SPEAKER_02]: He can hit.
[SPEAKER_02]: He can defend enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's probably not a short stop long term, but maybe like a second basement that arms pretty good, maybe a third basement.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's also some sort of utility kind of risk there, too, that maybe he ends up as that kind of a guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if he's number one next year, that's probably a bad sign in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think the exciting name.
[SPEAKER_02]: at number one that I've been kind of building up to is Ethan Conrad, was a first round of this year, still went pretty high when you consider his track record and now, you know, he was at Maris for a few years, he led the nation in triples, his second sophomore year there, had an excellent Cape Cod League with Bourne, was one of the better hitters in the league, you know, transfers to Wake Forest, it's a home run friendly park.
[SPEAKER_02]: He shows a lot of power early,
[SPEAKER_02]: in conference competition, so you sort of lack that sort of hurdle that you wanted to at least see him against high level power for competition.
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't see that.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also the lingering shoulder injury and what the impact is going to be on on his swing.
[SPEAKER_02]: on him defensively, he was a center fielder, a bigger guy, but a good athlete and a really good runner.
[SPEAKER_02]: So somebody that you sort of could view as like, all right, yeah, I think he can stick in center.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if he moves to a corner, he's probably going to be above average or better out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's some power projection.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like 6364 in a really, you know, strong athlete.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he runs well, he hits, you know, for a enough power that the angles are in great, but I think there's some projection there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the underlying bats of ball is kind of one of his carrying tools and really strong approach.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think he's a guy that we have him here at five, sort of was a little bit cautious about and now for, after the case.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, of course, he's me.
[SPEAKER_02]: have met, you know, at four, which is just a little bit cautious in comparison to guys who had pro experience that didn't have the injury track record that he had, just in terms of shoulder injury does concern me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was back in the backfield, we saw some videos of him hitting tags off of the machine or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's an exciting guy, the upside guy, kind of a really buzzy name in this in this off season in terms of like a prospect that a lot of people think is a sleeper or could be a breakout.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think he's a guy that we're like,
[SPEAKER_02]: He could be number one and they could go really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he could start in high A and hit in the Midwest league and then, you know, jump up to AA and handle that and, you know, could be on the cost of the big leagues in in 2027 potentially, just because he has kind of varied skills.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see what happens with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's, I heard he was going to play a little bit of first base, and they're going to ease him back into outfield work.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see how he progresses.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that he's kind of maybe an interesting dark horse to maybe play some bets on, but not one that's like, way out, way out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the chances that King Keppily could kind of leap him?
[SPEAKER_00]: in the of the season and kind of be that number one is that is that crazy considering like I say that just because of Kepler's athleticism defense there's there's a lot to like there probably not because of the bat right like Conrad's offensive upside is just so much more significant.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because I think, you know, Capley's maybe a slightly better contact hit or but even that's kind of debatable because like Conrad is hitting for hit for higher averages in his career.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're both guys that were mid majors that then, you know, jump to the ACC to and both place center field.
[SPEAKER_02]: Capley's a better center field or but Conrad.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, as I said, it's not like he's, you know, any slouch out there makes a lot of nice plays, you know, watching his sort of extra effort, you know, highlights from last year and the previous year and on the cape, you know, he makes some nice plays.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what have to be health related with Conrad or he just didn't hit, just didn't translate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Couples a guy that is just, it's more of like your, your kind of classic table set or lead off guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe more along like the South Fralic route where it makes a lot of a concierge.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a whole field.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he's not going to hit for power like PCI is like there's no I don't think there's any any chance he hits for 30.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the upside here is if like he adds more power because there he doesn't have high end top and exit velocities like 90th percentio is below average in the same with his max.
[SPEAKER_02]: But his
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, 1991 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he he hits the ball hard enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's enough hard hit balls.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's just more than that like 88 to like 92 range.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a lot of line drives and that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like if he got to like 12 to 15 home runs, I think he would be really excited and you know, he's a potential all start.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably
[SPEAKER_02]: But with maybe like 30 plus steals and a really good batting average and a really high on, you know, on base percentage and a guy that can play center field every day and and be outstanding out there now the cubs may not need that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but or could be like a really, really high end fourth-out field or fill-in type of guy, which on like a championship caliber team, you need something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think he's a really good player, really exciting.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there is, there is somewhat of a ceiling just in terms of how good a player kept the campaign.
[SPEAKER_00]: So also we wanted to take a look.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are the cubs good?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what, you know, we're trying to look at what each organization is done well recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: thing like to, you know, I'll kick this to you, but obviously two things that jump out of this is we just mentioned PCI.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you produce Pico Armstrong and Kate Horton to end to accept Matt Shaw, like the thing with the Cubs, it should be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't always act this way, but they're a large market team.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chicago is a very large, and they're the dominant team as far as fans support and all that in one of the largest cities in the US.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really more about guys who can step in and be regulars than it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we've got to find role players to fill out the roster because they're the cubs.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should be able to go pay for those guys that they need to.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what when you look at it, what are the cubs done well on the farm system side in recent years?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's certainly not the pitching.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even just even with paid
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, even Kate Horton, honestly, is like a historical win for the Cubs.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been a long, long time since they developed pitching.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it might be like prior and would, like the last time that they had multiple good pictures in their system.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think you look at that and you say, OK, it's definitely not pitching.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's position players.
[SPEAKER_02]: You look at their starting nine and depending on who's
[SPEAKER_02]: The only guy that's not homegrown if it's a Maya is Gansby Swanson.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, like there is some debate on homegrown because of Michael Bush.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, he technically was a prospect with the cuts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but yes, because he was trying from Japan, but these are guys that brought, you know, but have, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, for the person says PCA is not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we know he was originally a met.
[SPEAKER_00]: He largely developed in the Cub's farm system.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just want to prevent that comment from being pointed out, yes, we are aware.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is a guy who was in Abel in the Cub system.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I mean, if you make the chart, right, like you got account Michael Bush as well, because he didn't graduate.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you actually because
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to be drafted or initially signed by.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then I guess, I guess KC wasn't a homegrown ad or even though he never played for the bond rates, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I would still consider those guys to be, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: players that broke in really with the cops.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and the team has, you know, longer years of control and options, et cetera, on those contracts.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, credit to them on that, I do think it's hitting them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they develop different types of hitters, like Nico Horner, Ian Hab, PCA who we're gonna count, Matt Shaw, all different types of hitters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those Shaw hasn't really hit all that much yet, but we'll see where he gets to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that they have been able to sort of identify and then get to the big leagues and get these guys into at least average to above average every day type of roles, that's really valuable.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think if you look at,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, what the cost is of those guys and their ability to maybe bring in a Kyle Tucker and some of those things, it's because of the hitters, you know, cam Smith, they were able to get Edward Cabrera because of own Casey, so there's even some of those, you know, sort of peripheral pieces as well, that they've been able to backfill the major league team so.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, I think it's definitely the hitting side of things and I wouldn't necessarily say in field or outfield or because they've had success kind of in both areas.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, catch or two, I mean, we're talking about Amaya and to some extent, ballasteros as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, and, and any going further back, contrarse who they ended up, you know, developing and then, you know, left a couple years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of going to wrap up the video portion of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you are enjoying this, and you want to have more, and you are watching the YouTube video, thank you for doing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we have in our link in the description, also the link to the podcast, because we're going to keep talking about, looking a little bit about something that Jeff already talked about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, when we look at this farm system, how worried should you be that prospects might be growing stale?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll do that on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Jeff, you just talked about that cam Smith, you know, cam Smith is a, you know, was a, was a key draft pick and then a key piece because obviously it turned around traded for Cal Tucker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Owen Casey, like this is a team that's produced out that, because as you said, like this is something where PCA is now established, Owen Casey just traded to the Marlins.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then if you look at this,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You still have, as you mentioned, Kevin Alcantara got James Priyantos.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got Jonathan Long.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got still a number of guys who have not just been reached AAA, but have been in AAA for quite a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, how close are we getting?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is this a team that still needs to make a couple more trades or has this now open enough enough
[SPEAKER_00]: to where, okay, there's paths for these guys to play in the big leagues in 2026, because I would say, in Kevin Alcantaro's case, for example, if he's in AAA in 2026, that is a terrible thing from a developmental standpoint, because we talked about it in the off season.
[SPEAKER_00]: There aren't many players who hit the seven-year mark of ranking in prospect handbooks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's just say,
[SPEAKER_00]: The history for those players is not a bright one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like that they're never big league or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's really hard to be a seven or eight time prospect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Handbook top 30 prospect.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be a very good career.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because he's an, he's an eight.
[SPEAKER_02]: The, the only guy that's nine is for us, Whitley, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is, who?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: is in Japan now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what I would ask is, how worried should the cubs for an office be?
[SPEAKER_00]: That when we say stale from a developmental standpoint, you can back up because you're at the same level for a second and sometimes third, you know, year.
[SPEAKER_00]: But on top of that, stale from a standpoint of, we've seen this with the Oreos, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: what the Orioles could have gotten for, say, Heston, Kierstead a couple of years ago in trade, much less than, you know, much more than they could get now.
[SPEAKER_00]: To take an example of play, they did trade.
[SPEAKER_00]: They did trade Calstowers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who ended up making all of our team for the, you know, for the Marlins.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Calstowers had less value at the time they traded him than he would have a couple years before because if someone sits a triple A for a long time,
[SPEAKER_00]: That that new car smell goes away and it you start to give a little bit in front office, you know, I think there starts to be like, do I get to I get some sour milk, you know, notes here that I'm that I'm smelling how much of a worry should that be for the cups.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think that this answers a little bit of those questions in the short term, because at least moves Alcantara into a bench roll.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he could be pretty valuable there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just as a fill-in defensively, he's pretty strong, late innings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's a pathway that he can get, we'll say 250 played appearances.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, without a substantial amount of injuries.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a place for him to do that, and I think like maybe easing a guy like that in a little bit, allows him not to get overly exposed, and I think he still might get a little bit exposed from day to day, there's still upside there.
[SPEAKER_02]: you have to have some questions about his ability to break in as an everyday player and there's hit tool questions that have lingered for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've improved at times.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of a very streaky hitter with his periods of times where he's incredibly effective and looks like a potential future all-star and there's other periods of time where he's just a hole in your lineup.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the defense is always consistent.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's always going to provide speed on the basis but
[SPEAKER_02]: his ability to consistently get to impact, which is there.
[SPEAKER_02]: He hits the ball hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: He needs to prove that he can do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think once he's there, and kind of get to that 20 plus home run set up, sort of upside that's kind of lingering in there, could be a really strong everyday player, but he's still 23 years old and this might be a slower burn.
[SPEAKER_02]: It might be like 25 when he's finally sort of a really good regular and you maybe have five or six years of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, and maybe he's just never in everyday.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's very, very reasonable and just based on the history of like the guys in that eight handbook can even seven handbook club, there's not a lot of everyday regulars.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's, I don't know if there's even an all star in that mix.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, you know, that's, that's kind of what you're looking at with Alcantara at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think two extent he's kind of already stale.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though he's 23, so this at least opens up some opportunities for him because I couldn't see him playing over KC.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a key part of this is was going to be hard to see him playing over KC like the.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that does stand out here is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, when we say stale one of the things with that is this I don't think I think you could argue that he had a better year last year, but it's not like you're seeing him.
[SPEAKER_00]: The scouting report on him is not changed a whole lot from 23 to 25, from a standpoint of what he could be.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's also that reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every year you don't reach that, the window to become what you could be become smaller.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something that I think a lot of times when people talk to us about understanding rankings and from a prospects standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might note, if you, you know, we, we put the adjusted grades in their in addition to be a grades in risk, you may note that the players who are closer to the majors often have lower ceilings than the players who are further away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not because the further you go up, you just naturally are worse player.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because the avenues that were, like, if you are a 16 year old, just sign out of the Dominican or an 18 year old, just
[SPEAKER_00]: There's all these possible ways that you could go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you get closer to the majors and you become 22, 23 years old, some of those avenues have closed off, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the guy that you've wondered if you was going to develop power to a different level, you know, maybe you don't see it, or you thought it was going to be a plus defensive center field, or it gets thicker, and now he's going to be a corner, all that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, like you said, like, in all guitarist case,
[SPEAKER_00]: He's now, I feel like kind of on that fourth-out-fielder regular line now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a accurate way to put it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is probably spot on.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is exactly what he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, these other guys we talked about, Jonathan Long, some of the other, the triple ILO crew, James Triantos.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like at this point with them, it's fair to be more skeptical.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think at this point that either of them, we could have seen like, we were kind of just wondering what names could be involved in that, in the trade when we heard that the Marlins and Cubs are talking trade.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the Cubs could have, if Triantes have been in that trade, I think it would have been like, from the Cubs standpoint, you hate to say up, it's like, okay, we can give him up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so and you know the thing with Chiantos is it seemed like he made a huge step forward second base defense in 2024 the reports are really good love the metrics are really good I don't know what happened, but that all backed up and he was
[SPEAKER_02]: Well below average at second base, they tried them in center field and that didn't really play.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's a good runner and you know, was a two-way guy in high school, you know, picture of note.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's got a good arm.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you would think, yeah, he could probably play center field and it was bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were just no instincts out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's early, maybe they can develop in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't imagine he's going to be a center field or maybe more like a left field or long term.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you're talking about a left field or that doesn't hit for almost any power.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thoughts of, you know, him potentially replacing Nico Horner a couple of years ago, sort of seemed to be flying out the window.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to me, he seems more like a bench bat or
[SPEAKER_02]: a guy that's going to get traded to an organization that, you know, it can maybe give this guy some run at second base and, you know, appreciates the contacting and and the speed and we'll tolerate the defense or, you know, things they can improve them in some way, shape or form.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll get back to what he was a couple of years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems really unusual because
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, as an amateur was built as a pretty decent athlete did a lot of things well, no one thought he was a short stop, but a lot of people thought he could be a second base third baseman and But just it really hasn't clicked and he can't play defense and you don't hit for power.
[SPEAKER_02]: The batting average in speed is kind of empty and it's not like this is Chandler Simpson.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then with long.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would just put it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bar to be cleared as a first-based primarily position player is very high, and it's going to be hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just going to be hard, especially in a team that those have an established guy doing a very good job of that in Michael Bush.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, long it says feel like he's really close to being in that, okay, you know, you're hoping to get up, you're hoping to end up with the marlins and you get like that extra chance like several other cubs, ex-cubs first-based prospects have gotten over the years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Matt, you know, Matt Mervis being the one that really comes to mind, but, um, but also with that, like, there's really not a bench roll for that kind of player very often, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would say the thing that's unique about him is he's a really good defender at first base.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we don't put huge grades on first base defense, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I should try Morgan.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, he's played third can play a little bit in the outfield, but not a tongue because he doesn't run that well.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a good hitter.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's a better hitter than Matt
[SPEAKER_02]: probably even power, but he's got, they ability to get to it a lot more.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's more of a hitter that has some power.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's right right as well, which is kind of working against you as a first baseman.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he does play the position well, so maybe that negates a little bit of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know, there aren't any serious split issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's working in his favor.
[SPEAKER_02]: He does get on base at a really high clip.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was only drafted in 2023.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's not even rule five eligible until following this upcoming season.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he just have that going for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel like he's totally stale.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is one of those type of players where because he doesn't have defensive value, because the bar declared first base or DH or kind of the guy that plays left field DH, third base and a pinch.
[SPEAKER_02]: is so high, you don't know if he can clear that bar.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he had a pretty good season in Tripoli, no doubt.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had 305, 404, 479 with 20 home runs over 140 games.
[SPEAKER_02]: He stays on the field and has moved, progressed to the upper minors in his first two full seasons.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of credit to go around there, but it's just, is this in every day guy?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, and that's a reason that he's not higher, because if this is Jonathan Long every day, third baseman, Jonathan Long is probably in the conversation for the no one prospecting the system.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you might have forced, you might have forced Matt Shaw a little bit if that was the case, but that's just, that's just not where he's at.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the arm isn't strong enough for him to play out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I mean, there's, it's a ball of average hit tool with above average power and, you know, I do think with like a second division team, there's a chance that this guy strenght together a couple of really good seasons, you know, we've seen that before.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll kind of an example of a guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that long might be a little bit of a hit or although just a Henry Malois an example of how this can kind of to just got DFA by the Tigers cleared to clear a roster spot, you know, kind of bounced around a little bit, but like always a good hit or and it was like, okay, play third, well, no, not really.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, okay, can you play left?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, not really.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, okay, so you're really talking about kind of a DH.
[SPEAKER_00]: bad, you know, for left field or first base type and that guy struggles to stay on rosters.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, hopefully long has a little bit better, you know, kind of runway than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing that stands out here that we wanted, I wanted us to hit on before we wrap up is looking, take Jackson Wiggins out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we mentioned earlier, you know, that this is an organization that did produce Kate Horton just, you know, Kate Horton graduated last
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you get past you action wiggins, though, the lack of, I can't say top tier.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say even mid tier pitching prospects in the system really does stand out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have one player after wiggins, one pitcher.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no other pitcher in the top 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's only one other pitcher in the top 30 who even has,
[SPEAKER_00]: and above average, sorry, two of it above average fastball.
[SPEAKER_00]: And only one who has an above average fastball with a plus secondary.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a reliever, Riley Martin.
[SPEAKER_00]: How worked, like they obviously have a pretty good rotation that they just buttressed by acquiring Edward Cabrera.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there something to worry about here with the lack of especially starting pictures that or even relievers who could be like flamethrowing like miss that relievers if feels like there's a lot more of the he's fine kind of guys here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I mean, like they have some some starter depth, you know, let's see what Justin steal is when he's fully healthy, you know, is obviously pretty good prior to the injury, but they just historically have not really developed pitching and
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't even have like the interesting arms that they kind of find in the later rounds.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that changes this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dominic Reed is kind of interesting, but I don't think he has huge upside.
[SPEAKER_02]: Caleb Wing is kind of interesting, but I don't think he has huge upside.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't have that guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good last year with Jackson Wiggins.
[SPEAKER_02]: You look at Jackson Wiggins when I write this extension.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's velocity.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's coming off injury.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how we kind of landed here.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, even some of their other finds like a Ryan Gallagher who got traded to the twins um, was interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't really have those guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've, they just haven't drafted a lot of upside, um, on the pitching side and they haven't committed a lot of picks and resources to adding pictures and, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: You have somebody like Justin Florentino who might be, you know, one of the best pitching prospects for them outside the top 10 and in the lower minors and he throws 89 and 91 miles an hour from a really weird slot with a big sweeper that's 75 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of where you're at like there's no like going from the this to the Astros which is how I had written the system so I wrote the Astros and I wrote this and I wrote the cardinals.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, wow, like, you've asked those guys that get signed in, you know, the NDFA or like, you know, round seven, and you're like, wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is big stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could see how this could turn into something.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have a Jake Bloss every year, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: They have somebody like that, you know, Christian hobby or they find in the air, it's no market.
[SPEAKER_02]: They develop it.
[SPEAKER_02]: These guys have four pitches.
[SPEAKER_02]: They throw more strikes than you would expect.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have weird angles.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't see that in the come system.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you go to the cardinals
[SPEAKER_02]: They historically had been, you know, very like prudent in terms of the types of players.
[SPEAKER_02]: They went after in the draft.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like K to VV model.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of lefties that threw 90 miles an hour with command.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've gone the opposite direction since Bloom has come in.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a huge stuff in that system kind of all the way from, you know, two with Liam Doyle all the way down to 30 with Blake Ida.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's a bunch of interesting guys with interesting pitches and interesting
[SPEAKER_02]: there's none of that, you know, I was excited to write Riley Martin and he's an undersized reliever, you know, two-pitch guy that has spent a couple of years in AAA and I think was eligible for the rule five in 24 and then got added before the deadline in 25.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was excited about Riley Martin and that kind of tells you a lot about where these guys and I love writing picture reports.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's my favorite thing in a handbook season.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think anybody who's edited him is probably like, yeah, I probably cut a thousand words between his reports.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because he goes so I depth out of him, but I love writing about pictures.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it pains me that the clubs don't have more pictures.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'd love to see some more interesting arms in the system.
[SPEAKER_00]: Along those lines, this is a team that if everything goes well, should be a seller at the deadline, not a buyer,
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, one of the currencies that you can have at the deadline when you're trying to acquire big league talent, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is somewhat intriguing picture, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the guy who's up a tentative reliever, the guy who's not like gonna be a frontline starter, but or the guy who is so far away, but that second piece that third piece a lot of times can be that kind of intriguing picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: It really does feel like that the cubs that they're gonna make moves that deadline is, or more moves this off season.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really gonna be more position players also can absolutely give you a solid return in the deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be much more position players.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the pitchers, because it just doesn't reading through the reports.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does not feel like that there's a lot of pitchers here as you just spelled out.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be that enticing if I'm saying, oh, I'm making a deal with the cubs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do we want back in this return?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, they're really aren't a lot of those guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I kind of look through this system and it's especially in the back and there's not a lot of flyers where, um, you'd be excited to take on these guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of guys are a lot older, the 30 tier in this in this system starts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think at now it.
[SPEAKER_02]: 17, so more than half the system is kind of a lowest graded types of players that we put in.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not many 25 adjusted grade players.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a handbook if there's any.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are there any?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to just give you an example, this, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, just a couple of systems that we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do the reds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You look at the cardinals and you say, okay, we're being unfair to the cubs here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You say, well, what are those kind of 15 down?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not top 15 prospect, but 16 down prospects.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, here's a picture who a team might be interested in a deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I've got the red Zach Maxwell who's number 19 on this list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he always know where it's going, not necessarily, but he is the Big League Reliever right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has options.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a guy that I love about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edgar Colone, who was 11th round pick of them in 2024.
[SPEAKER_00]: High school pitcher was in Puerto Rico, went to Miami.
[SPEAKER_00]: 94.95 touches sevens with above average carry on the fastball, above average slider.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are just kind of like, and again, Trevor Cunkel, who is like this reliever for them, who they signed out of indie balls at the very back in this list, is like a guy's like 96, 97 with a couple of good sector really good, you know, kind of developed a split grip pitch that's really pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are like, I'm just talking about like, hey, this I might be useful in a deal, not as we're going to get a big return from this, but as a piece of the deal, because they have stuff, they miss bats, they're intriguing either they're close to the majors and that could be a semi useful reliever or their further away and maybe it'll be starter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cardinals have a ton of those guys too, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not the best cardinal system we've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the cardinals have those guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's a really good cardinal system.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best that I've covered.
[SPEAKER_02]: Might be one might be the best system that I've written for a handbook chapter at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: and it got a little better.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we know that their number 30 prospect, Blake Aida, is a guy that a team would want to trade for, because the team just traded for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, granted, it was, it was St. Louis, but I think you look at, you know, Matt Pashard, who was a role 5 pick.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was someone who was mentioned to us very early.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was in the role 5 preview 1.0, if I'm not mistaken.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nate Dome, Frank Ellis,
[SPEAKER_02]: more than like the Elisarza reliever and don't might follow sort of in that that path as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But both guys that teams are interested in and a team traded for.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we know that's the case.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you look at maybe Bryson mods, Britain Davis, who's been pretty interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think there's a lot of arms there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's even some arms that have been outside of the top 30.
[SPEAKER_02]: that teams have been interested in as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they had Cade Windquest to probably would have ranked like 27th on this list, was taken in the role five draft this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I think there's a lot more pitching talent when you look at this cardinal system, or you look at that red system.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's guys that teams will be interested in acquiring.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, pirates have guys like right on to their, not our, the brewers I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're just looking for those teams of vision.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that the cubs have in that division, the fewest number of at least interesting pitching prospects.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we just have to compare him to the podrace to the podrace have more interesting pitching prospects that you Yeah, they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in some time, many of those podrace prospects were like, he's pitched once in the last four years, but when he did, it was really good kind of guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, he got Michael Solina.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Straight out of the same bottom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, but to wrap this up, our short summary here is is that the system has produced big league regulars recently and is kind of going through the natural life cycle in some ways, which is there are playoff team last year coming off their best year they've had in really since that team that should have been a dynasty that won one world series and you kind of shake your head and go,
[SPEAKER_00]: How did they not win maybe one more, you know, hopefully, you know, they're from from the 20 times.
[SPEAKER_00]: But hey, you're comes fans.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know winning a world series.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to integrate that in any way shape or form had a way to long time for that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I say, though, is they've basically they produced big leagueers and they have still talent here to make other moves.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just to expect that the systems probably going to look
[SPEAKER_00]: thinner and thinner as the year goes on, not deeper and deeper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good way to wrap it up is up there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think Bala Steros could graduate.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can congratulate other trades could be made from the top of this system.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you're kind of looking at maybe like you can conrad and kept Lee and some of those guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I made the projection that I or prediction excuse me that this could be a bottom two or three system when we update in the mid season prior to the draft.
[SPEAKER_02]: This could be bottom five at least.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's head of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for good reasons if they make trades and graduate guys, so it can't complain about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we hope you've enjoyed this club's deep dive on the baseball America prospect podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we said we said this on the reds one.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're rolling out.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do all 30 clubs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't worry, if we haven't done your club yet, which 28 of those teams we haven't yet, but we will get to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to try to roll out.
[SPEAKER_00]: This week we're doing our goal is three.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our goal for this is we're going to roll out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Deep Dives on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Sunday.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to do four of these a week, so that we can get through our goal is just to get through that'll be little over seven weeks to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's trying to get this done basically before spring training, big league spring training games really get going.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an offseason project for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so with that, we hope you really are enjoying these.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you are, let us know, you know, you can email us at podcast at gbasbalamerica.com or you can also leave a comment on YouTube, you know, we're game.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a YouTube and we do this on the podcast feed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for Jeff, I'm JJ.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a long everybody.