WEBVTT 00:02.292 --> 00:11.104 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast where we give you a strong biblical framework and lots of practical ideas on how to live intentionally as a father and a husband. 00:11.124 --> 00:21.117 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Brooke Moser and I'm Justin Whitmore Early and we're your host to guide you through the many roles and challenges that God is calling you to to live intentionally as a father. 00:21.577 --> 00:29.548 [SPEAKER_03]: We're following a visual framework that you can check out at intentionalfatherhood.org and it's going to help you break down fatherhood into eight columns. 00:29.528 --> 00:39.486 [SPEAKER_01]: And in each one, we're going to talk about how God made you to be a father and what practical habits you can start trying today in order to live intentionally into that home. 00:39.506 --> 00:44.314 [SPEAKER_03]: So come along with us as we follow Jesus on this journey towards being more intentional fathers. 00:48.074 --> 00:54.681 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the intentional fatherhood podcast where I've just learned recently that Justin has modeled recently in his time. 00:54.721 --> 00:55.762 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we actually recording. 00:55.962 --> 00:56.683 [SPEAKER_01]: We're actually recording. 00:56.963 --> 00:57.524 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 00:57.604 --> 00:58.665 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell people that. 00:58.685 --> 00:58.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man. 00:59.165 --> 01:00.126 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait till they find it. 01:00.827 --> 01:02.809 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, um, I mean, it's okay. 01:02.889 --> 01:04.171 [SPEAKER_01]: You're of your handsome guy. 01:04.191 --> 01:04.531 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine. 01:04.771 --> 01:05.192 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a. 01:06.993 --> 01:08.555 [SPEAKER_01]: You're embarrassed, but I'm not. 01:08.755 --> 01:13.120 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that you have to remember there's nothing to be embarrassed about nothing to be embarrassed about. 01:13.140 --> 01:16.343 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I want to highlight something today's a bonus episode. 01:16.475 --> 01:24.205 [SPEAKER_01]: bonus episode bonus episode on a topic that not many of us think about much but we figure we should talk about it in that is sex. 01:24.226 --> 01:27.069 [SPEAKER_03]: Sex is very hard for us to be mature. 01:28.531 --> 01:29.152 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's be honest. 01:29.212 --> 01:31.455 [SPEAKER_03]: We are too guys talking about sex. 01:31.696 --> 01:44.473 [SPEAKER_01]: With a boyish heart that his his peers could be but to be honest there's just too many things we've already said or we're just like oh we can't say that we can't say that way so here's what what our promises we are going to do our best. 01:44.453 --> 02:04.369 [SPEAKER_01]: to be appropriate and to be honest about this topic and to share from our real lives, but I cannot promise that there will not be moments of random laughter based upon a phrase that has said maybe the wrong way and we'll do our best, but I think with our dynamic just and there's just a good chance one of us is going to say something. 02:05.547 --> 02:21.143 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, try the wrong way and also want to say thank you for listening to season two and going through that content with us and just have to say obviously if you do have questions, remember send a voice memo one minute voice memo. 02:21.123 --> 02:32.039 [SPEAKER_01]: simply with your name, where you're from, and email that to helloedententialfatherhood.org, and then also please let this not be white noise, but thank you for rating, subscribing, and leaving a comment. 02:32.499 --> 02:41.933 [SPEAKER_01]: Spotify Apple, wherever you listen, even on YouTube, it's just so helpful, and we so appreciate that as a gift, and please do that if you haven't had a chance, so 02:41.913 --> 02:43.195 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to talk about this topic. 02:44.056 --> 02:47.843 [SPEAKER_01]: It shows up in, you know, it's we're going to talk to fathers. 02:47.883 --> 02:52.851 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk to men and who are married and we're going to be speaking specifically to fathers. 02:52.871 --> 02:56.597 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you are a sister listening, please do totally love it. 02:56.737 --> 02:57.458 [SPEAKER_01]: We welcome it. 02:57.839 --> 03:03.187 [SPEAKER_01]: But also know that we're going to basically be talking from our experience as husbands and as fathers and as men. 03:03.608 --> 03:05.631 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we want to speak specifically to the men. 03:05.992 --> 03:08.055 [SPEAKER_01]: Just write out the gate to be clear about 03:08.035 --> 03:14.808 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also, this topic is just one that is a huge part of the male experience. 03:14.828 --> 03:17.112 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just such a big part of the male experience. 03:17.973 --> 03:21.760 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's obviously a part of the female experience, but in a different way. 03:22.041 --> 03:26.449 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think to acknowledge that it's not wrong, 03:26.429 --> 03:27.351 [SPEAKER_01]: It's different. 03:27.651 --> 03:38.571 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the needs that we're experienced are that we're even going to be talking about are going to be from a male perspective and speaking from that place of maybe your sex drive is really higher. 03:38.612 --> 03:41.517 [SPEAKER_01]: And for some sex for some men your sex drive might be low. 03:42.118 --> 03:43.200 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to talk about that. 03:43.260 --> 03:44.843 [SPEAKER_01]: But in general. 03:44.823 --> 04:13.125 [SPEAKER_01]: men are very visual and so there's a there's a visualness to our sexuality in the sense that often what we see can activate what we think and I think this is again true for women but maybe what we know by and large is maybe not as extreme in certain ways and so it just looks different for us and so you have the the visual nature of it the the Bible says the eyes of the man are never satisfied that's a really interesting that's a very interesting and very 04:13.105 --> 04:30.764 [SPEAKER_01]: But we also know that understanding sex within our marriage, what's expected, what's healthy, what's good is so important, and also remembering like, what is our role as fathers, as husbands, as men, as Jesus followers in this time, and how do we talk about this like a normal, healthy way? 04:30.964 --> 04:41.475 [SPEAKER_01]: And so instead of like avoiding this topic, which would have been more comfortable, we're just going to dive right into it, and we're going to start with the idea of intimacy. 04:41.455 --> 04:42.837 [SPEAKER_03]: Justin, I'm opening thoughts. 04:42.977 --> 04:47.903 [SPEAKER_03]: Would you talk about this right in your intentional marriage? 04:47.923 --> 04:50.266 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we, we have an arm of what we do. 04:50.547 --> 04:56.474 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is intentional fatherhood, but we have intentional marriage my wife and I get to lead that her parents speaking to that sometimes. 04:56.694 --> 05:01.941 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I, for me, this is not something that I talk about a lot. 05:02.221 --> 05:03.423 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to see how this goes. 05:04.064 --> 05:11.293 [SPEAKER_03]: It is something that after much debate, I included a chapter on in the body 05:12.995 --> 05:29.219 [SPEAKER_03]: trying to get canceled by writing a chapter, but why are people like I really it was funny because all my friends when we're joking but serious when I was talking about writing a book on embodiment, they were like yeah, I could write a chapter on sex, right? 05:29.700 --> 05:37.011 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like I'm not too risky to I don't yeah, and then I and then I kept saying that over and over how I can you wait the more I 05:36.991 --> 05:47.632 [SPEAKER_03]: read the Bible, the more I read about our biology, the more I thought about it as, oh my gosh, you can't talk about embodiment. 05:47.652 --> 05:54.626 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't talk about image barriers without talking about sex because it's right at the beginning of the whole story. 05:55.328 --> 05:58.594 [SPEAKER_03]: Right at the beginning, God makes all of creation. 05:59.148 --> 06:03.592 [SPEAKER_03]: and he makes male and female in his own image. 06:04.013 --> 06:13.702 [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's this Genesis 2 idea that we're not, we don't bear the complete image without each other and that only together, which connotes sexual union. 06:13.903 --> 06:14.183 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 06:14.463 --> 06:16.765 [SPEAKER_03]: Are we fully who God made us to be? 06:16.866 --> 06:28.497 [SPEAKER_03]: And it is an idea that actually theologically and physically makes you blush a little bit because the question is, why did God invent sex at all? 06:29.438 --> 06:34.991 [SPEAKER_03]: And why did he put it at such the center of what it means to be like him? 06:36.034 --> 06:38.479 [SPEAKER_03]: Clearly, he likes this idea. 06:38.940 --> 06:41.366 [SPEAKER_03]: Clearly, he thinks this is really important. 06:41.386 --> 06:43.491 [SPEAKER_03]: And yet, we hesitate to talk about it. 06:43.531 --> 06:44.032 [SPEAKER_03]: But here we are. 06:44.313 --> 06:44.694 [SPEAKER_03]: We got to. 06:44.995 --> 06:48.122 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in the Christian circles, especially, there's a lot of 06:48.102 --> 06:50.607 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to go and give you the deep theology. 06:50.627 --> 07:02.490 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of smarter higher paid well as you can to people that can give you the full full background of all this, but sex was made by God for our good and for procreation and beauty. 07:02.710 --> 07:03.532 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we know that. 07:04.093 --> 07:05.235 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting. 07:05.355 --> 07:06.297 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, 07:06.277 --> 07:07.640 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we obviously know that though? 07:08.061 --> 07:08.582 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not. 07:08.662 --> 07:09.624 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we need to dwell on it. 07:10.245 --> 07:11.187 [SPEAKER_03]: Keep talking about it. 07:11.909 --> 07:15.396 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it is as clear to everybody as it ought to be. 07:15.436 --> 07:16.058 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 07:16.078 --> 07:21.028 [SPEAKER_03]: But God invented sex calls it good and thinks it's good that you like it. 07:21.430 --> 07:23.292 [SPEAKER_01]: the other day, we were sitting at the table. 07:24.394 --> 07:36.488 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't remember what I referred to, but we have an open sexual culture in our home, meaning we talk about things appropriately, but like there's questions aren't off limits around sex or especially as our kids have gotten older. 07:36.968 --> 07:40.052 [SPEAKER_01]: This has led me to some very interesting conversations with my older two kids. 07:40.873 --> 07:41.954 [SPEAKER_01]: There's the movie, Demon Demmer. 07:42.555 --> 07:43.316 [SPEAKER_01]: If you remember this movie. 07:43.877 --> 07:45.879 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course I remember this movie. 07:45.899 --> 07:46.940 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy wearing a hat. 07:47.000 --> 07:48.843 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why I'm Dynum in 69. 07:49.023 --> 07:50.104 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen this hat? 07:50.084 --> 07:51.526 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you forgot about it. 07:51.546 --> 07:59.279 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I didn't and you know who else didn't my son who saw it and he goes So dad What is that what does that even mean? 07:59.839 --> 08:11.338 [SPEAKER_01]: Like do you really want to know you know and I was like, I'll tell you you know, I will Yeah, tell me so I tell you it's a position and here's what it is and And he goes Wait, how old is he at the time 15? 08:11.658 --> 08:17.307 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he's like Okay, good to know I was like great 08:18.232 --> 08:26.640 [SPEAKER_01]: We had this talk like we've just decided to make it as normal as possible that they talked to us about and obviously we're jumping into the parenting part right now. 08:26.681 --> 08:32.687 [SPEAKER_01]: But but I think it's huge like that it's so helpful because so many of us group in a time and men I'm going to speak to you. 08:32.967 --> 08:45.960 [SPEAKER_01]: You group in a time like Justin and I where you maybe had a parent and the good parents at least had one conversation with their kids maybe multiple but maybe just even one but majority had none and still to this day I will never forget. 08:45.940 --> 09:02.443 [SPEAKER_01]: my parents never talked to me about sex ever and the interesting thing was that they in some way got slated to pick us up the morning after our wedding night to drive us to the airport and obviously the wedding night happens. 09:03.084 --> 09:04.866 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a virgin when I got married so it was my wife. 09:04.946 --> 09:05.507 [SPEAKER_01]: We get married. 09:05.547 --> 09:09.973 [SPEAKER_01]: The coolest thing in my entire life just happened and I get into a car with my parents 09:09.953 --> 09:12.784 [SPEAKER_01]: And we just talk like, how do you some reels? 09:12.804 --> 09:14.551 [SPEAKER_01]: Matt's getting a little sexy. 09:14.652 --> 09:15.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, dude, why was this? 09:15.596 --> 09:17.081 [SPEAKER_00]: I was 21 at the time. 09:17.102 --> 09:18.085 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to do that. 09:18.106 --> 09:19.491 [SPEAKER_00]: You said I would enough to know better. 09:20.028 --> 09:30.100 [SPEAKER_01]: How you guys don't know, I'm sitting there thinking the coolest thing in my entire life is just transpired like by a long shot, you know, I've only been on this earth 21 years can't say long work. 09:30.821 --> 09:33.284 [SPEAKER_03]: Talk about it. 09:34.345 --> 09:46.660 [SPEAKER_01]: And and truly, I'm sitting there like in the car with my parents thinking and they're asking like questions like, how is the wedding, you know, just like questions that don't have to do with like the obvious elephant in the car of like, 09:46.640 --> 09:49.004 [SPEAKER_01]: You have no idea what I mean that, of course, it had some idea. 09:49.024 --> 09:59.800 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, the coolest thing, and I wish, I wish sometimes that there was that moment, like, I don't want to give details to my parents, but also like, let's rejoice, this is such a cool thing, but there was no framework for this. 10:00.261 --> 10:04.547 [SPEAKER_01]: So so many of us grew up, especially in the church, our parents just never said anything about it. 10:04.527 --> 10:05.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:05.048 --> 10:15.378 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that what we are trying to at least myself and Elizabeth in our home is not like go, you know, pendulum the other side, but at least create a culture where hey, sex is a part of your life. 10:16.019 --> 10:17.060 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a part of your story. 10:17.080 --> 10:18.001 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a part of your body. 10:18.161 --> 10:18.361 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:18.381 --> 10:19.002 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about it. 10:19.042 --> 10:23.327 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, I would chime in there and say, same. 10:23.747 --> 10:28.032 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't recall a good helpful conversation on sex with my parents early. 10:28.052 --> 10:31.395 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I have been later when some things went wrong. 10:31.375 --> 10:32.256 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. 10:33.057 --> 10:36.121 [SPEAKER_03]: And most of us grew up only hearing that what not to do. 10:36.802 --> 10:37.903 [SPEAKER_03]: Or just hearing silence. 10:38.064 --> 10:42.650 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, Lauren and I are really big on talking early and talking often. 10:43.030 --> 10:43.591 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 10:43.611 --> 10:45.613 [SPEAKER_03]: To the boys, so not one conversation. 10:46.154 --> 10:46.535 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going. 10:46.815 --> 10:47.236 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it. 10:47.256 --> 10:50.700 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a great ministry called the Birds and the Bees. 10:50.933 --> 10:51.594 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 10:51.614 --> 10:56.702 [SPEAKER_03]: Really helpful frameworks for talking about sex with young children. 10:57.143 --> 11:02.811 [SPEAKER_03]: And they have that called the drip drip drip model of like just little little conversations everywhere along the way. 11:03.793 --> 11:05.375 [SPEAKER_03]: Because and I think this is really important. 11:05.535 --> 11:10.764 [SPEAKER_03]: When it comes to something as port and as sex, clarity is kindness. 11:11.084 --> 11:11.505 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 11:11.765 --> 11:19.557 [SPEAKER_03]: It does not do us any favors to be unclear on what 11:19.537 --> 11:25.885 [SPEAKER_03]: Because if you are not clear as a parent with your kids, the world will be very clear. 11:25.905 --> 11:31.392 [SPEAKER_03]: They, they, they're, if you don't teach them what it is, and by the way, you're the dad, right? 11:31.592 --> 11:31.692 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 11:32.873 --> 11:36.838 [SPEAKER_03]: They think you know everything about everything at the young age, right? 11:36.858 --> 11:38.981 [SPEAKER_03]: And then they quickly think, you know, nothing about anything. 11:39.001 --> 11:40.583 [SPEAKER_03]: And the adolescent's age, but yes. 11:40.563 --> 11:44.868 [SPEAKER_03]: But early and often means you're the master of all subjects. 11:45.269 --> 11:51.717 [SPEAKER_03]: So you have this great position to tell your kids what it is before the world tries to tell them what it is. 11:52.117 --> 11:55.421 [SPEAKER_03]: Because the world is very confused about what sex is. 11:55.462 --> 12:10.300 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's also why I think clarity is kind of to understand the glorious nature of what God gives us in sexual union is to understand so much of life and to be confused about sexuality or to be confused about what sex is. 12:10.280 --> 12:12.504 [SPEAKER_03]: is to be confused about so much of life. 12:12.584 --> 12:15.048 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's so helpful to talk about it. 12:15.068 --> 12:16.270 [SPEAKER_03]: So we start there, right? 12:16.290 --> 12:18.975 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, maybe a theological case for sex. 12:18.995 --> 12:19.676 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 12:19.696 --> 12:21.940 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, just, and maybe just to say, sex is good. 12:22.320 --> 12:23.222 [SPEAKER_01]: God created it. 12:23.362 --> 12:24.103 [SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful. 12:24.925 --> 12:28.170 [SPEAKER_01]: But sex has so much power. 12:28.150 --> 12:45.788 [SPEAKER_01]: and it has such an energy that when it is outside of your marriage and it is outside it is just absolutely destructive and similarly inside of a healthy marriage it is life giving it literally is the thing that brings life think of babies right. 12:45.768 --> 12:46.990 [SPEAKER_01]: It is so powerful. 12:47.050 --> 12:50.215 [SPEAKER_01]: It has the ability to make life like so we just have to understand. 12:50.295 --> 12:53.461 [SPEAKER_01]: We are playing with for an analogy that makes sense. 12:53.481 --> 12:59.450 [SPEAKER_01]: You are playing with literal fire that could literally bring life and warmth or destruction and burn your house down. 13:00.072 --> 13:06.141 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think those that idea of just understanding its power, it's been made by God, but it is one of those things that is all powerful. 13:06.502 --> 13:08.065 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think it's on your mind so much? 13:08.726 --> 13:12.552 [SPEAKER_01]: It has a power to your physicality, to your emotions, to all of it. 13:12.532 --> 13:18.778 [SPEAKER_01]: And even on the note of, you know, talking to your kids about it, I think there is some of that realness that you have to teach your kids. 13:19.379 --> 13:20.720 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really uncomfortable. 13:20.740 --> 13:23.063 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say this, so we can get this right out of the way. 13:23.664 --> 13:28.328 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really uncomfortable if you did not grow up with some of this and then you're trying to teach your kids this men. 13:28.689 --> 13:36.417 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to get to the the point of sex, but why I'm saying that though is because my kids asked me questions that I'm not always prepared to answer, but I've committed to answer them. 13:36.437 --> 13:36.717 [SPEAKER_01]: So, 13:36.697 --> 13:38.419 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me give you another fun for instance. 13:39.640 --> 13:51.835 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably a year ago, my daughter who was 12 at the time She we've we've had the sex talk because we wanted to talk them a little bit early and she's like You guys have had like six at least four times right? 13:52.155 --> 13:55.379 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I love the answer You've done this four times. 13:55.399 --> 13:57.381 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it was a real question and it came down. 13:58.182 --> 14:02.147 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she she kind of knew but she was like I could tell she was testing like 14:02.127 --> 14:03.430 [SPEAKER_01]: Is my thought on this, right? 14:03.530 --> 14:05.194 [SPEAKER_03]: She wasn't trying to bait you. 14:05.495 --> 14:06.377 [SPEAKER_03]: No, she was. 14:06.518 --> 14:09.284 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she was just trying to like, is that right? 14:09.385 --> 14:09.966 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that not right? 14:10.026 --> 14:11.690 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I said, no, speed. 14:11.971 --> 14:13.054 [SPEAKER_01]: You're actually five. 14:13.194 --> 14:13.515 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:13.535 --> 14:13.655 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:13.675 --> 14:15.419 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, though, this happens all the time. 14:15.439 --> 14:16.021 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, oh. 14:16.402 --> 14:16.622 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 14:16.863 --> 14:17.545 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you serious? 14:17.605 --> 14:18.567 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, 14:18.547 --> 14:19.328 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes sweetheart. 14:19.408 --> 14:35.544 [SPEAKER_01]: I've told you she's like when was the last time and I said sweetheart I have told you that if you ask me these questions, I will tell you But I promise you can't adhere what I tell you right like if you know like I don't want to make you uncomfortable But I will tell you do you really want to know and she's like Yes, I want to know and I was like well, what's today? 14:36.585 --> 14:37.946 [SPEAKER_01]: And she goes that's Wednesday. 14:37.966 --> 14:40.048 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like I think it was Sunday. 14:40.088 --> 14:41.249 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like I knew it. 14:41.630 --> 14:44.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew your door was locked for a reason I knew you guys were doing something. 14:44.612 --> 14:45.333 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like gosh. 14:45.393 --> 14:46.174 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like 14:46.154 --> 14:48.198 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we were, sweetheart, go talk to your mom about it. 14:48.218 --> 14:58.159 [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to ask your mother question, you can ask me all you want, but I don't know anything about talking to girls about this, so you're going to have to be the, well, I was someone that I've only talked to. 14:58.359 --> 15:03.069 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, yeah, I think you lead, you lead, I think your wife needs to lead that conversation. 15:03.129 --> 15:04.973 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's most, 15:04.953 --> 15:20.768 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is the most naturally healthy now obviously if depending on circumstances maybe it makes more sense for a father too, but I do think there's a gender appropriateness and just natural organicness to a mom sharing that with her daughter from that perspective just like I would share with my son. 15:20.748 --> 15:24.091 [SPEAKER_01]: And so what we do is we kind of switch roles. 15:24.292 --> 15:29.457 [SPEAKER_01]: She takes that initial spot, that initial conversation, ripped the bandit off, like this is what this actually is. 15:29.998 --> 15:32.500 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm available all the time to just be to talk. 15:32.520 --> 15:34.522 [SPEAKER_01]: Answer questions, you know, I know that you know. 15:35.623 --> 15:45.434 [SPEAKER_01]: And then her with my son, especially when he was younger, was like, you know, I know, I know you know, and just let me know if you have, you know, I'm here to open, this is fine. 15:45.454 --> 15:45.654 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 15:46.114 --> 15:49.658 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I think what I'm saying that is because 15:49.638 --> 16:00.914 [SPEAKER_01]: as a father, nothing will bring you to your own understanding of what your sexual understanding and belief system is, quicker than your own kids, because they get older. 16:00.934 --> 16:09.646 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you might come to this topic and feel incredible shame, incredible discomfort, incredible pride. 16:10.267 --> 16:12.270 [SPEAKER_01]: You might come from all these different spaces. 16:12.250 --> 16:18.660 [SPEAKER_01]: and I just want to say our goal here isn't to elevate some who feel prideful or deflate anybody that's feeling shameful. 16:19.321 --> 16:21.665 [SPEAKER_01]: Our hope is to say, sex is good. 16:21.985 --> 16:22.626 [SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful. 16:22.807 --> 16:23.908 [SPEAKER_01]: It's super complex. 16:24.429 --> 16:29.357 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not straightforward as much as it sounds like it might be just like an easy thing to talk about. 16:29.497 --> 16:31.881 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very complex and it's different in each of our marriages. 16:32.342 --> 16:34.405 [SPEAKER_01]: So we want to honor that and say that out of the gate. 16:34.866 --> 16:36.368 [SPEAKER_01]: But we want to talk about 16:36.348 --> 16:37.731 [SPEAKER_01]: this idea of intimacy. 16:37.912 --> 16:42.321 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to talk about sexes sacrament and then we want to talk about what it looks like practically. 16:43.324 --> 16:44.005 [SPEAKER_01]: You down to go there. 16:45.168 --> 16:46.451 [SPEAKER_03]: You just said some words. 16:46.531 --> 16:47.353 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't say. 16:47.413 --> 16:48.535 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that question in a different way. 16:49.999 --> 16:51.322 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready to talk about this job? 16:51.342 --> 16:53.226 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready to talk. 16:54.455 --> 16:55.517 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, you're so in a brilliant. 16:55.537 --> 16:56.860 [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be a fun episode. 16:57.160 --> 16:59.004 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, any thoughts before we go into it? 16:59.064 --> 17:12.911 [SPEAKER_03]: No, let's dive into the, I have thoughts, particularly in the sexes sacrament, all the, the way that the spiritual world and the physical world are in separately intertwined in the world of sex. 17:13.011 --> 17:13.392 [SPEAKER_03]: But. 17:13.372 --> 17:16.416 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, maybe just intimacy, general at first. 17:16.496 --> 17:27.210 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let me just highlight, you know, your marriage, you hear this word intimacy all the time, and it's an important word, but I think there's a, a little caveat I have to say. 17:27.270 --> 17:34.520 [SPEAKER_01]: It can become a catch all word for being close without a lot of definition of what intimacy actually is in its fullness. 17:34.580 --> 17:43.311 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're just going to walk through really quick, six different types of intimacy that you can and really need to experience in your marriage with 17:43.291 --> 18:00.111 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just emotional intimacy, although you hear that, it's multi-layered, it's multifaceted, and I think that it's also important to when you listen to this man or if you're a whifeless thing to this, either send this episode to your wife and or sit down and talk about this area. 18:00.471 --> 18:05.798 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I want to encourage you to do, man, like, uh, I don't know if we're going to make another chart for this one. 18:05.818 --> 18:07.700 [SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, it's to basically go diagram. 18:07.740 --> 18:08.321 [SPEAKER_03]: No diagrams. 18:08.341 --> 18:08.841 [SPEAKER_03]: No diagrams. 18:09.041 --> 18:09.602 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry. 18:09.582 --> 18:11.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Justin, Justin, just shut that down. 18:11.585 --> 18:12.846 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we're not doing any backgrounds. 18:12.866 --> 18:14.088 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not drawing anything. 18:14.108 --> 18:14.308 [SPEAKER_01]: God. 18:15.750 --> 18:27.906 [SPEAKER_01]: That said, though, I think that it's important to just talk about this together and to do a curiosity, thought experiment, a non-judgmental, and this is the important part. 18:28.307 --> 18:33.193 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not to start an argument, a non-judgmental assessment of where your marriage is at. 18:33.173 --> 18:38.806 [SPEAKER_01]: Your marriage is no doubt going to have areas of these pieces of intimacy that are either non-existent or just really weak. 18:38.947 --> 18:39.488 [SPEAKER_01]: That's okay. 18:40.150 --> 18:44.179 [SPEAKER_01]: But the point is to identify where you are at, where your weak and begin to work on where it is. 18:44.311 --> 18:45.954 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I want to interject there. 18:47.116 --> 18:53.767 [SPEAKER_03]: It's probably impossible to have a non-judgmental conversation on this stuff, actually, because it's not a conversation. 18:53.847 --> 19:03.484 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, all I'm saying is, yes, this is the aspiration, but I just want to mention, if you're going to talk about emotional intimacy with your spouse. 19:03.464 --> 19:06.228 [SPEAKER_03]: or physical intimacy with your spouse. 19:06.849 --> 19:08.712 [SPEAKER_03]: Someone is going to be upset about something. 19:08.832 --> 19:09.092 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 19:09.693 --> 19:20.589 [SPEAKER_03]: So fighting about it and feeling frustrated or left out or hurt about it, that is the norm, not the exception, which is why it's so important to talk about it. 19:20.649 --> 19:23.954 [SPEAKER_03]: So, and of course, it's never a good time to talk about it, right? 19:24.334 --> 19:28.200 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, never, it's never a good time for us to talk about emotional intimacy. 19:28.240 --> 19:30.023 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, look, I've just had a long day at work. 19:30.043 --> 19:31.665 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to think. 19:31.645 --> 19:34.231 [SPEAKER_03]: It's probably never good time for a wife to talk about physical interviews. 19:34.251 --> 19:35.534 [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, look, it's been a hard day with the kids. 19:35.554 --> 19:38.280 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really, but look, you both have to talk about it. 19:38.300 --> 19:39.202 [SPEAKER_03]: You both have to talk about it. 19:39.583 --> 19:44.534 [SPEAKER_03]: So I just want to give you permission to try to have a non-judgmental conversation. 19:44.775 --> 19:48.784 [SPEAKER_03]: But to know that this is going to raise friction in that part of the point. 19:48.824 --> 19:50.127 [SPEAKER_03]: You got to figure this out. 19:50.107 --> 19:51.950 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're, this is going to poke the bear. 19:52.492 --> 19:59.345 [SPEAKER_01]: So moving on, emotional first, emotional intimacy, and I want to just describe these really in brief. 19:59.385 --> 20:00.587 [SPEAKER_01]: So what is emotional intimacy? 20:00.727 --> 20:06.478 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the ability to share feelings, thoughts, fears, openly and safely. 20:06.458 --> 20:09.142 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that idea where you just you have transparency in your relationship. 20:09.162 --> 20:13.990 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like honesty that involves things like empathy for sure listening well. 20:14.371 --> 20:21.582 [SPEAKER_01]: This might be some an area that you are weak and your wife gives you feedback for others who are saying, hey, like I don't feel like when I'm talking you're like really listening. 20:22.604 --> 20:25.048 [SPEAKER_01]: This is part of that emotional intimacy connection. 20:25.068 --> 20:28.534 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a first one and we'll we'll go back through these and just I'd love your thoughts. 20:28.574 --> 20:30.036 [SPEAKER_01]: We have spiritual intimacy. 20:30.016 --> 20:34.240 [SPEAKER_01]: especially in a Christian context, it's important that you have spiritual intimacy. 20:34.260 --> 20:45.913 [SPEAKER_01]: This looks like praying together, going to church together, talking with God, having shared purpose in your relationship, realizing that your marriage exists for more than just student marriage. 20:45.953 --> 20:57.525 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really important part, but that's a part of spiritual intimacy. 20:57.505 --> 20:59.709 [SPEAKER_01]: have all the illness, but I do not have spiritual intimacy. 20:59.869 --> 21:05.157 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to say first that is so hard and begin to pray into that as much as you can. 21:05.217 --> 21:09.685 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is such a challenge, but that's that's obviously a goal. 21:10.246 --> 21:11.708 [SPEAKER_01]: Intellectual intimacy. 21:12.008 --> 21:12.269 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 21:12.689 --> 21:13.431 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a good one. 21:13.451 --> 21:17.978 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is a big one for Lorna where the marriage of the minds is a big part of our life. 21:18.143 --> 21:23.216 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's sharing ideas, sharing ideas, vision, talking about books, talking about what we've read. 21:23.256 --> 21:23.998 [SPEAKER_03]: Interests. 21:24.058 --> 21:24.278 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:24.800 --> 21:25.341 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 21:25.361 --> 21:26.464 [SPEAKER_03]: That's, I mean, it's pretty hot. 21:26.564 --> 21:27.045 [SPEAKER_03]: I love this. 21:27.065 --> 21:28.369 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a good date night for us. 21:28.389 --> 21:29.491 [SPEAKER_01]: It's awkward. 21:29.511 --> 21:35.005 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, that's, it's all, that includes even, like, respecting each other's thoughts and perspective, especially when they're different. 21:34.985 --> 21:38.409 [SPEAKER_01]: learning and having a curiosity about where they're coming from. 21:39.029 --> 21:42.573 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's that's the intellectual intimacy. 21:43.173 --> 21:47.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you have experiential intimacy and that's like growing closer through shared experiences. 21:47.858 --> 21:54.625 [SPEAKER_01]: This could be like date nights and getaways and vacations and memories as a couple on trips like things that you're doing. 21:54.665 --> 22:04.215 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's an intimacy that happens when you share experiences together which is really fun. 22:04.195 --> 22:13.668 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's simply, I mean, like it sounds, it's a strong sense of trust and safety, it's kind of what we talked about when you have made these marriage fouls, right? 22:14.429 --> 22:22.079 [SPEAKER_01]: But this is a reminder and a reminding through your actions, through your words, through your body, through your life that you are committed to this person. 22:22.139 --> 22:24.603 [SPEAKER_01]: And intimacy actually flows from that place. 22:25.184 --> 22:26.946 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about this in 22:26.926 --> 22:52.410 [SPEAKER_01]: episode four of yeah season two on that covenant of saying the covenant re remembering your vals that intimacy that comes from knowing that you're committed yes in the huge is a big part of it and then lastly the sixth one and this is there there can be more than this but this is where we'll stop is physical intimacy right that is a part of it and that includes of course 22:52.390 --> 22:56.336 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not just physical, it's not just sexual connection. 22:56.376 --> 23:00.682 [SPEAKER_01]: This is also like physical touch and care and the idea of just connecting. 23:00.702 --> 23:05.469 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the hope of this, again, is for you to just identify. 23:05.509 --> 23:07.251 [SPEAKER_01]: We're naming stuff this season. 23:07.572 --> 23:11.698 [SPEAKER_01]: And even in this bonus episode, we want to say, name where you're at. 23:11.718 --> 23:13.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where are you weak on this? 23:13.801 --> 23:17.846 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of us think of our relationship as emotional intimacy and physical intimacy. 23:17.906 --> 23:18.347 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 23:18.327 --> 23:20.733 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are the main two, I'd say we think of. 23:21.294 --> 23:27.870 [SPEAKER_01]: And we kind of gauge where we're at with those two more than any, I would imagine, if you're anything like Brian Justin, those are the two main ones. 23:28.511 --> 23:34.345 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's also really important that if you're weak in emotional intimacy and maybe even physical intimacy. 23:34.325 --> 23:38.151 [SPEAKER_01]: I would wonder if you start with some of the others first. 23:38.311 --> 23:38.572 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 23:38.852 --> 23:40.435 [SPEAKER_01]: Start having some experiences. 23:40.535 --> 23:42.818 [SPEAKER_01]: See how that leads and helps your emotional intimacy. 23:42.878 --> 23:44.120 [SPEAKER_01]: What about intellectual intimacy? 23:44.160 --> 23:46.444 [SPEAKER_01]: See how that leads to maybe even more physical intimacy. 23:46.484 --> 23:47.806 [SPEAKER_01]: You just said something is telling. 23:48.207 --> 23:49.950 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hot when we're talking about this stuff. 23:49.970 --> 23:56.580 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a part of you that is activated in a non-sexual but could lead to that space. 23:56.620 --> 23:57.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 23:57.241 --> 23:59.324 [SPEAKER_01]: because you're connected, right? 23:59.344 --> 24:00.626 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about overall connection. 24:00.666 --> 24:00.887 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 24:01.067 --> 24:03.270 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's really helpful actually. 24:03.290 --> 24:07.216 [SPEAKER_03]: I've never heard types of intimacy broken down into all six of these. 24:07.837 --> 24:09.139 [SPEAKER_03]: It rings very true though. 24:09.339 --> 24:16.971 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think listening to an episode like this together with your spouse as a way of kicking off conversation on this. 24:16.951 --> 24:37.103 [SPEAKER_03]: If you each even listed all six of these out and just rated on a scale of one to ten like how's this going I think in our marriage and then, you know, you want it'll be great conversation and probably start some fights, but like share yeah like you know you're ratings on each one I think this is so helpful because it's often said and I think very true that for 24:38.213 --> 24:43.402 [SPEAKER_03]: women emotional intimacy helps lead to sexual intimacy. 24:43.543 --> 24:44.024 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 24:44.184 --> 24:48.111 [SPEAKER_03]: And for men, sexual intimacy helps lead to emotional intimacy. 24:48.351 --> 24:48.772 [SPEAKER_03]: Very true. 24:48.872 --> 24:49.674 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's really true. 24:50.375 --> 24:56.747 [SPEAKER_03]: But this isn't even more robust picture of this of all the ways that you can be working on intimacy together. 24:57.147 --> 24:59.091 [SPEAKER_03]: And I really like it's challenging because 25:00.269 --> 25:06.539 [SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty provocative to think it's going to be hard to work on your sex life if you're not working on your prayer life in spiritual intimacy. 25:06.559 --> 25:11.887 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's going to be pretty hard to have a great memory of experiences together. 25:11.987 --> 25:19.459 [SPEAKER_03]: If you're not also learning together and sharing your thoughts and the idea of working on this and the context and covenant of marriage. 25:19.439 --> 25:33.718 [SPEAKER_03]: is inspiring and I also just think we're talking mainly to men here, hopefully we have some women listening, but we're talking to fathers and most of us are going to be constantly wanting to improve sexual intimacy. 25:34.036 --> 25:34.958 [SPEAKER_03]: And you're made for that. 25:34.978 --> 25:35.480 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's great. 25:35.720 --> 25:36.101 [SPEAKER_03]: No shame. 25:36.462 --> 25:37.745 [SPEAKER_03]: The cure made for it is wonderful. 25:37.926 --> 25:38.146 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 25:38.166 --> 25:38.748 [SPEAKER_03]: You should be. 25:39.911 --> 25:51.640 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you're not looking at all of these things, you're neither serving your wife nor yourself because if you're looking at intimacy and marriage, only in the sexual dynamic to the exclusion of all others, 25:52.193 --> 25:53.775 [SPEAKER_03]: You're probably not going to have a great sex life. 25:54.416 --> 26:06.875 [SPEAKER_03]: So if I'm not going to be good for her, and probably not going to be that good for you, but when you're doing the work to emotionally engage, when you're doing the work to be a spiritual leader and your family, when you're saying things like, let's read a book together. 26:07.276 --> 26:08.277 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go on a trip together. 26:09.359 --> 26:14.286 [SPEAKER_03]: Great, great sex comes out of the fullness of that kind of life. 26:14.266 --> 26:24.041 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would definitely say, I think Lauren and I sex life is 100% the best when all these things are being worked on. 26:24.101 --> 26:36.580 [SPEAKER_03]: Not necessarily all going well, but when we know that we're working on them, there's so much intimacy that you, and this is the whole idea of sex that really overflows into physicality. 26:36.640 --> 26:41.387 [SPEAKER_03]: When you just 26:42.532 --> 26:46.075 [SPEAKER_03]: We're not satisfied to just behold beauty. 26:46.576 --> 26:51.040 [SPEAKER_03]: We want to consume it, to be united to it. 26:51.760 --> 26:54.763 [SPEAKER_03]: And the idea of sex is pretty wild. 26:54.803 --> 27:04.632 [SPEAKER_03]: It's that idea that we fall so in love with another person that we actually yearn to become one with them, to merge ourselves physically and spiritually. 27:05.292 --> 27:07.474 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's not an isolated act. 27:07.494 --> 27:10.497 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why we cannot talk about sex just physically. 27:10.477 --> 27:23.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've talked about spiritually and emotionally and intellectually and I'll deal logically because it's a part of the whole and it's the whole thing and I think it's important to say as we're, you know, talking about this something that will. 27:24.668 --> 27:29.915 [SPEAKER_01]: conflict or tension or frustration in your marriage, obviously will affect your intimacy. 27:30.777 --> 27:33.521 [SPEAKER_01]: And it affects your physical intimacy, yes. 27:34.322 --> 27:42.373 [SPEAKER_01]: But think about how hard it is, like in a minimum speaking to you, like how hard is it to pray over or with your wife when you haven't dealt with conflict? 27:42.353 --> 27:59.029 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's so hard and it and until you end up like dealing with all of the like walking through and Properly naming and and dealing with the stuff that has come up for you guys you have to be in a space of like 27:59.009 --> 28:02.796 [SPEAKER_01]: naming this and working through it because it all is intertwined. 28:02.836 --> 28:05.381 [SPEAKER_01]: It all impacts the other in a deep way. 28:05.481 --> 28:20.410 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think again, this is a way for you and your spouse to talk about have some conversation, go on a date, have the conversation, you know, wherever you can, and do your best to listen and be honest and maybe there's room for you to grow, maybe you're doing 28:20.390 --> 28:27.760 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think these six things help locate sex and sort of the geography intimacy, if you will. 28:27.780 --> 28:28.661 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep. 28:28.681 --> 28:38.114 [SPEAKER_03]: Before we get to the practicals, I do think it's helpful to locate it theologically and this can be brief because this could be a whole and this is a lot of volumes on books. 28:38.195 --> 28:49.350 [SPEAKER_03]: But I would just suggest sex is spiritual, sex is physical, and sex is powerful. 28:49.330 --> 28:50.552 [SPEAKER_03]: It is spiritual. 28:50.572 --> 28:56.102 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, God Sex in the Bible and the Bible talks about it a lot by the way. 28:56.362 --> 29:00.971 [SPEAKER_03]: The Bible can be faulted maybe for talking too much about sex definitely not too little It's our rated. 29:01.031 --> 29:02.253 [SPEAKER_03]: It's x rated at points. 29:02.413 --> 29:10.447 [SPEAKER_03]: It's very intimate song as Solomon is a great in the middle of it like you've been the Bible Like around the middle and you get this very very intimate. 29:10.708 --> 29:11.189 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, go on. 29:11.209 --> 29:12.211 [SPEAKER_03]: What's going on here? 29:12.231 --> 29:13.633 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because 29:14.272 --> 29:21.327 [SPEAKER_03]: God sees sexual union as perhaps the fullest metaphor of what spiritual union is. 29:21.407 --> 29:32.510 [SPEAKER_03]: That longing to be come one, to be consumed, enjoy, and ecstasy is what Paul lays out in Ephesians as one of the mystery. 29:32.550 --> 29:33.432 [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's mysterious, right? 29:33.452 --> 29:34.795 [SPEAKER_03]: So you don't want to get 29:34.775 --> 29:36.056 [SPEAKER_03]: to die-dactic about this. 29:36.076 --> 29:37.578 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to get too specific about this. 29:37.618 --> 29:41.502 [SPEAKER_03]: You compare one part of sex to your relationship with God, and it starts to get weird and strange. 29:41.723 --> 29:42.884 [SPEAKER_03]: Do what the Bible does. 29:42.944 --> 29:50.152 [SPEAKER_03]: Speak about it with metaphor, with respect, with mystery, and then you're onto something. 29:50.252 --> 29:51.673 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, sex is spiritual. 29:51.894 --> 29:54.917 [SPEAKER_03]: It's teaching you what relationship to God is ultimately like. 29:54.977 --> 29:59.021 [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently, we were meant for that kind of union as to see what God. 29:59.382 --> 30:00.042 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's also physical. 30:00.203 --> 30:02.385 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, 30:02.365 --> 30:02.866 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 30:02.886 --> 30:04.848 [SPEAKER_03]: So I just think it's can't say it enough. 30:05.489 --> 30:07.191 [SPEAKER_03]: It's capital G. Good. 30:07.812 --> 30:08.092 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 30:08.112 --> 30:08.473 [SPEAKER_03]: It's good. 30:08.613 --> 30:09.274 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why you want it. 30:09.294 --> 30:10.936 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why marriage is built for it. 30:10.956 --> 30:16.963 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why you should be having it, having a lot of it, having great sex over the whole span of your life, ideally. 30:16.983 --> 30:18.185 [SPEAKER_03]: This is this is what sex. 30:18.345 --> 30:21.569 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about a lot in great in a second, but we'll get to the practicals. 30:22.230 --> 30:27.396 [SPEAKER_03]: And because of those things, it, because it's spiritual, because it's physical, it is so powerful. 30:27.636 --> 30:28.137 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 30:28.117 --> 30:34.313 [SPEAKER_03]: which is where you can then start to talk about all the ways it goes wrong because when something is that powerful. 30:35.491 --> 31:01.515 [SPEAKER_03]: it can do great good or great evil, which is why sexual abuse is so evil and destructive, which is why pornography is so evil and destructive to take something so beautiful, some mysterious, so spiritual the God made and then sell it as a commodity of women's and men's 31:01.495 --> 31:13.985 [SPEAKER_03]: deeply evil, it is deeply destructive, it is deeply anti-creation, which, you know, this, I think this stuff again, clarity is kind of, it has explanatory power for the world. 31:14.025 --> 31:18.255 [SPEAKER_03]: This is why sexual ethics are so important and Christians rightly hold to them. 31:18.235 --> 31:29.250 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, despite the controversy, despite how unpopular it is, despite and the popularity changes from age to age for to be consistent on saying, no, no, sex is sacred. 31:29.290 --> 31:30.111 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't do that. 31:30.432 --> 31:32.134 [SPEAKER_03]: You just can't do anything you might. 31:32.154 --> 31:32.534 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't do it. 31:32.775 --> 31:37.802 [SPEAKER_03]: And that in that context, in this way, it sounds British at first. 31:37.922 --> 31:44.811 [SPEAKER_03]: It is so wise to hold to this actual ethic, because it's powerful. 31:45.132 --> 31:46.133 [SPEAKER_03]: It's so powerful. 31:46.771 --> 31:47.672 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's spiritual. 31:47.812 --> 31:48.313 [SPEAKER_03]: It's physical. 31:48.393 --> 31:48.974 [SPEAKER_03]: It's powerful. 31:49.134 --> 31:50.115 [SPEAKER_03]: So we have to practice it. 31:50.235 --> 31:52.318 [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know if you want to dive right in. 31:52.338 --> 31:52.979 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm ready. 31:52.999 --> 32:00.768 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think talking about how to practice these things is helpful because it's not easy. 32:01.810 --> 32:02.270 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not easy. 32:02.791 --> 32:05.494 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to highlight, let's move to practical. 32:05.895 --> 32:08.458 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to mention sex as sacrament. 32:08.438 --> 32:14.226 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we talked about that really briefly, but obviously sex just isn't just pleasure and connection. 32:14.347 --> 32:16.870 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a sacred sign of God's active grace in your life. 32:16.910 --> 32:21.297 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I know I don't want to over-spiritualize this, but there's, as you said, it's spiritual. 32:21.317 --> 32:28.447 [SPEAKER_01]: So just to highlight that, there are five specific things that happen every time a married couple enters making love. 32:28.627 --> 32:29.889 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a beautiful thing that happens. 32:29.929 --> 32:33.855 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to highlight these really briefly because I think 32:33.835 --> 32:43.209 [SPEAKER_01]: that this physical act that might seem benign has a spiritual reality in power that is happening maybe even behind the scenes that you don't notice or always see. 32:43.750 --> 32:46.815 [SPEAKER_01]: That is actually doing a lot of this beauty that you're speaking of. 32:47.656 --> 32:52.323 [SPEAKER_01]: First is reassurance when a married couple comes together, you're saying again, hey, I choose you. 32:53.024 --> 32:58.172 [SPEAKER_01]: I choose you, I choose you, I choose you, my whole being, a second identity. 32:58.152 --> 33:09.037 [SPEAKER_01]: It reminds you who you are for a man that affirms your strength, that affirms that you are to be desired and wanted for a woman and affirms her beauty, her power, her grace, together it reflects like God's design, man and woman. 33:09.177 --> 33:10.239 [SPEAKER_01]: Love it. 33:11.282 --> 33:12.104 [SPEAKER_01]: Reconciliation. 33:12.144 --> 33:13.226 [SPEAKER_01]: When you come together. 33:13.266 --> 33:13.346 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 33:13.687 --> 33:15.351 [SPEAKER_01]: In a world of conflict. 33:15.331 --> 33:39.448 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when you come together in this way, it transcends wounds, it can, it restores closeness, it offers a glimpse of heaven, it's beautiful, a fourth commitment, sex says I'm still in it, so in this with you, now obviously there's not always the case, I want to be really clear, like, there are the outlying, you know, people and conversations and situations, but in general, I mean, probably any advice, this would read this through the whole episode. 33:39.428 --> 33:39.829 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 33:40.229 --> 33:44.697 [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking about sex, practice, healthily in the covenant of marriage. 33:46.240 --> 33:46.921 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, these things. 33:46.941 --> 33:47.302 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:47.342 --> 33:51.129 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's not like, uh, we're, if you go as wrong as it goes right. 33:51.289 --> 33:53.253 [SPEAKER_01]: So importantly, Kevin, keep going though. 33:53.273 --> 33:53.553 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:53.754 --> 33:54.395 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for that. 33:54.555 --> 33:56.779 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a physical restating of your vows. 33:56.759 --> 33:58.843 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you're physically restating. 33:59.083 --> 34:00.065 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm committed to you. 34:00.125 --> 34:03.992 [SPEAKER_01]: And then fifth, um, sex and sacrament, fifth one is gratitude. 34:04.092 --> 34:05.694 [SPEAKER_01]: At best, sex is Thanksgiving. 34:05.975 --> 34:09.621 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a celebration and a gift to who you are to one another. 34:09.641 --> 34:11.645 [SPEAKER_01]: Tim Keller said this love it. 34:11.885 --> 34:18.717 [SPEAKER_01]: Sex is God's way for two people to say I belong completely permanently and exclusively to you. 34:18.697 --> 34:20.340 [SPEAKER_03]: That's so good. 34:21.642 --> 34:31.938 [SPEAKER_03]: This reminds me of what we're talking about in our episodes on giving your life away and how we can get stuck in the frustration and the bitterness and lack the gratitude and joy. 34:31.978 --> 34:35.563 [SPEAKER_03]: And sex is a defiant practice against that. 34:35.623 --> 34:39.169 [SPEAKER_03]: Because sex is even in the difficult times of 34:39.149 --> 34:47.323 [SPEAKER_03]: marriage in years that are frustrating and tiring, you are fighting for joy together. 34:47.423 --> 34:48.945 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yes, you can't not. 34:49.086 --> 34:51.530 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, sex is always that. 34:51.710 --> 34:53.633 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's it's really radical. 34:54.495 --> 34:56.838 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a radical way to be fighting for gratitude and joy. 34:56.899 --> 34:57.139 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 34:57.920 --> 34:58.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:58.081 --> 34:59.483 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about so how do you fight for it? 34:59.503 --> 35:00.164 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you practice it? 35:01.366 --> 35:01.967 [SPEAKER_01]: Consistently. 35:02.133 --> 35:10.392 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, let me let me highlight you said two things that sex is so good you should be having a lot of it and in good sex. 35:10.813 --> 35:12.818 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to just highlight those two things. 35:14.671 --> 35:23.929 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you say a lot, I know what you mean, but I wanted to find that a lot for your marriage because it's very easy to, there's people now that have podcasts similar to this one, right? 35:24.430 --> 35:27.596 [SPEAKER_01]: And they, they might say things that you hear as well. 35:27.656 --> 35:29.580 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we have sex every day. 35:29.901 --> 35:32.005 [SPEAKER_01]: Like my, I suppose that we have sex every day. 35:32.125 --> 35:33.087 [SPEAKER_03]: How old are these people? 35:33.768 --> 35:35.211 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 35:35.191 --> 35:36.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, good for them. 35:36.152 --> 35:37.514 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good for good for them. 35:37.774 --> 35:39.476 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that is my heart. 35:39.576 --> 35:42.759 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure I have the time capacity or even desire. 35:42.939 --> 35:44.221 [SPEAKER_03]: There's so many things in life. 35:44.661 --> 35:51.108 [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to try, right, but I think I could really quickly see like this is it's breaks down. 35:51.128 --> 35:55.073 [SPEAKER_03]: There's no that that seems like an odd and unhelpful thing to hold up as a norm for. 35:55.093 --> 35:55.373 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 35:55.433 --> 35:55.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 35:55.713 --> 35:58.296 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to highlight that to say. 35:58.276 --> 36:13.483 [SPEAKER_01]: The internet and folks that are that are Christians is what you might hear things that make you think that is the standard and or the goal and I just want to highlight that is a big lie that could create a ton of tension in your relationship. 36:13.463 --> 36:22.317 [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to look at your spouse, your situation, and what is consistent for each of you, your needs together to serve one another. 36:23.018 --> 36:35.337 [SPEAKER_01]: If you hear that a couple has sex every day, and again, you said this great, yay for them, that's exciting, that's their dynamic, and that's their thing, and that works for them, and they both love it, and that's great. 36:35.317 --> 36:38.162 [SPEAKER_01]: And if that's not your dynamic, you're not failing in your marriage. 36:38.182 --> 36:40.525 [SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't mean that you're not having a lot of sex. 36:40.666 --> 36:46.175 [SPEAKER_01]: It just means that you are having what amount of sex is healthy for your relationship and your needs in dynamic. 36:46.195 --> 36:47.377 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a lot. 36:47.397 --> 36:48.098 [SPEAKER_01]: And then good sex. 36:48.679 --> 36:50.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is a tricky one. 36:50.201 --> 36:51.924 [SPEAKER_01]: What defines good sex? 36:52.385 --> 36:58.114 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, and I would actually before I say anything about this, what defines good sex as far as, you know, you're saying good sex? 36:58.134 --> 36:59.396 [SPEAKER_01]: What is what do you mean by that? 36:59.817 --> 37:00.598 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just curious. 37:01.928 --> 37:03.832 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if you're on the spot. 37:04.032 --> 37:04.513 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. 37:04.533 --> 37:05.254 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a limb. 37:05.515 --> 37:07.058 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm putting you on the spot. 37:07.078 --> 37:15.635 [SPEAKER_03]: I think what I'm saying is sex that both husband and wife are enjoying ideally both orgasming. 37:15.815 --> 37:16.677 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 37:17.178 --> 37:19.903 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're both feel served. 37:20.255 --> 37:20.535 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 37:21.416 --> 37:26.261 [SPEAKER_03]: And whenever I talk about any of this, I'm talking about sex in the long run and the covenant of marriage. 37:26.481 --> 37:29.625 [SPEAKER_03]: So every sexual encounter is not going to be like that. 37:30.866 --> 37:33.569 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's very, very okay to know that. 37:33.609 --> 37:37.292 [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I think it's so empowering to know that for both husband and wife. 37:37.452 --> 37:42.598 [SPEAKER_03]: As in, it is okay just to serve the other. 37:42.758 --> 37:43.779 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a wonderful thing. 37:44.199 --> 37:44.600 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 37:44.620 --> 37:48.844 [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay for sex to be just about reconciliation tonight 37:48.824 --> 38:00.415 [SPEAKER_03]: make up sex and maybe that is exuberant and exciting and fun and loving or maybe it is entering in to the practice of sex because you know you need to get past the emotional frustrations you're having. 38:00.455 --> 38:18.291 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's I think there can be lots of different modes of okay tonight only this person is organizing or tonight is boring or tonight is just we're just practicing but in the long run I think what I mean when I say good sex 38:18.271 --> 38:30.992 [SPEAKER_03]: is always working towards a norm of both people enjoying it, both serving, both feeling grateful, both orgasming. 38:31.673 --> 38:33.977 [SPEAKER_01]: I see, I love that definite. 38:34.017 --> 38:35.679 [SPEAKER_01]: So I agree with that definition of relief. 38:35.739 --> 38:36.961 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for flushing that out. 38:38.203 --> 38:38.684 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys, I guess. 38:39.205 --> 38:41.429 [SPEAKER_01]: You, but no, I mean, I don't know you didn't fat. 38:41.729 --> 38:44.974 [SPEAKER_03]: This was, I was surely people on the comments who saw me all the things I said wrong. 38:45.275 --> 38:45.375 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 38:45.946 --> 39:08.832 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, for this content, for this conversation, I wanted to define that simply to take out the guesswork for the men listening, just instead of good sex, well, one guy's version might be very different from another, you might have an addicted background to porn and you think good sex is violent sex or a version of sex that is not realistic. 39:08.812 --> 39:15.306 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm highlighting, okay, that's, that's probably super important to mention, and I don't talk about this stuff enough, so I don't think about that. 39:15.327 --> 39:15.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Bill, you, yes. 39:16.188 --> 39:26.331 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but I'm highlighting that to say the definition is helpful for that's what you mean, that's what I mean, and I think we're just, we're naming what we mean, that's what we mean, what we say good say. 39:26.311 --> 39:48.977 [SPEAKER_03]: But that makes me want to add that both people are honored, yes, thank you, because we live in a, we always live in evil times and cultures, but our culture of pornography is particularly evil in the way that people actually try to say even from the female or maybe male being abused in these videos. 39:48.957 --> 40:09.733 [SPEAKER_03]: to try to argue that there's some sort of well I like that or well this is empowering to me to go to this place which is just such a dark and evil lie to take abuse, violence or degradation and celebrate it and even say that oh no actually people if you're really in touch with the 40:09.713 --> 40:22.533 [SPEAKER_03]: It's such a dark way that I see man in a male-dominated industry, making money off other people's desires, and then calling it good. 40:22.933 --> 40:23.214 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 40:23.374 --> 40:31.927 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's so much of that, I don't think we need to, maybe dwell on that, but I just do most males listening will have been formed in some way by pornography. 40:32.007 --> 40:34.371 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 40:34.351 --> 40:35.373 [SPEAKER_03]: Both of us include it. 40:35.393 --> 40:36.354 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like in that sense. 40:36.374 --> 40:36.614 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:36.634 --> 40:36.895 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:36.915 --> 40:39.258 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, unfortunately, seeing it and experiencing it. 40:39.278 --> 40:40.781 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, unfortunately, we're probably normal. 40:40.901 --> 40:41.762 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 40:42.103 --> 40:46.870 [SPEAKER_03]: Most of us, including us, have been, you know, had seasons in life or pornography was normal. 40:47.130 --> 40:47.751 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 40:47.771 --> 40:52.358 [SPEAKER_03]: And fortunately, it's been a long time now and there's been a lot of healing. 40:52.639 --> 40:57.606 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this was really only a norm in my life and my college early 20s years. 40:57.907 --> 41:02.113 [SPEAKER_03]: And really most of my marriage has been free of that, which has been. 41:02.093 --> 41:04.858 [SPEAKER_03]: So healing, but I think of it as that. 41:04.938 --> 41:09.927 [SPEAKER_03]: I think of Marriage you need sex and marriage to heal. 41:09.987 --> 41:11.770 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely. 41:11.790 --> 41:20.366 [SPEAKER_03]: The pornography wounds The opposite of that would be using your marriage as a place to try to reenact. 41:20.386 --> 41:21.809 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, those pornography wounds. 41:22.590 --> 41:22.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh 41:22.630 --> 41:23.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Good word. 41:23.792 --> 41:45.212 [SPEAKER_03]: And so you've got to men who are listening you that is your responsibility and we're not going to be able to tell you But you know when you are Trying to get something because you saw it somewhere and somewhere in your head you're trying to check a dark Evil box yeah, like Can I do this wow that that's good? 41:45.192 --> 41:55.757 [SPEAKER_03]: far off in your dark corner of desire, that's not in, I'm trying to become united, honor, serve. 41:56.258 --> 41:56.438 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 41:56.478 --> 42:00.568 [SPEAKER_03]: And let me tell you, that is better, by the way. 42:00.548 --> 42:12.250 [SPEAKER_03]: Like that honor service grateful life-giving sex is going to be better, more sexy, more fulfilling, and include a lot of things and a lot of fun things. 42:12.812 --> 42:15.076 [SPEAKER_03]: But I just, I think, man, you know what I'm talking about. 42:15.176 --> 42:16.178 [SPEAKER_01]: You know the difference. 42:16.158 --> 42:18.601 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I think it's a great way to say it. 42:18.621 --> 42:42.351 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to just kind of debunk those two things for anyone curious a lot means whatever is a lot for your relationship based upon what you and your life to see it not on someone else's relationship do not compare and do not despair and then the definition of good sex is so beautiful that could not agree more that's exactly what I would have said as well and I think that's helpful as we move to the practical part. 42:42.331 --> 42:44.795 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think the practical thing is like, well, what is normal? 42:45.837 --> 42:47.039 [SPEAKER_01]: And what is expected? 42:47.279 --> 42:52.467 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's really, again, hard to answer this for everybody specifically. 42:52.487 --> 42:54.951 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to be general with some things we'll be specific with others. 42:56.414 --> 42:59.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Your sexual background absolutely affects your marriage. 42:59.318 --> 43:03.846 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you slept with a bunch of people before marriage, that's going to impact your marriage. 43:03.906 --> 43:08.473 [SPEAKER_01]: If you slept with each other only before marriage and then got married. 43:08.453 --> 43:09.714 [SPEAKER_01]: That's going to affect your marriage. 43:09.734 --> 43:11.336 [SPEAKER_01]: That's still affects your marriage. 43:11.396 --> 43:22.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it doesn't mean any of these are things you can't solve work through, begin the process of healing, but just know like, what is your story and your spouse's story going into marriage? 43:22.887 --> 43:28.313 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that is going to highly educate you and highlight what the dynamics are in your relationship. 43:28.793 --> 43:29.794 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm speaking from a play. 43:29.814 --> 43:31.136 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just be vulnerable with myself. 43:31.256 --> 43:32.097 [SPEAKER_01]: I came from a place. 43:32.337 --> 43:34.299 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a virgin when I got married and so was my wife. 43:35.160 --> 43:38.443 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was her first everything, which is great. 43:38.423 --> 43:43.275 [SPEAKER_01]: And we were both, I made out with a couple of girls before. 43:43.315 --> 43:48.307 [SPEAKER_01]: My kids would say, or my wife would say, a lot of girls, but, you know, it stayed there. 43:48.989 --> 43:51.415 [SPEAKER_01]: It stayed in the making. 43:52.137 --> 43:55.605 [SPEAKER_01]: That said, though, I think it was really important. 43:55.585 --> 44:04.679 [SPEAKER_01]: to kind of know like that's where I'm coming from and so when we talk about like what's normal our normal might be different from yours. 44:04.719 --> 44:13.111 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to say that and then I also want to just say practically that when we get into marriage sex changes over time and I think that's actually a really beautiful thing. 44:13.131 --> 44:13.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 44:13.932 --> 44:14.253 [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful. 44:14.273 --> 44:14.353 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 44:14.373 --> 44:15.595 [SPEAKER_01]: But I've been married almost 19 years. 44:15.615 --> 44:18.800 [SPEAKER_03]: You're almost yeah we're almost 19 years tall. 44:18.820 --> 44:19.140 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 44:19.541 --> 44:21.103 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait so when what is your anniversary? 44:21.218 --> 44:36.884 [SPEAKER_01]: in a month of September, so getting married young, like what sex like looked like when we got married and what sex looks like now, in some ways similar, but then in other ways very different, right? 44:37.024 --> 44:42.273 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's parts of that, that we're a lot better as a cow. 44:42.754 --> 44:45.779 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think is one of the joys of marriage. 44:45.819 --> 44:46.500 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I. 44:46.480 --> 44:51.107 [SPEAKER_03]: And most people do, you know, they think sex is for the young, not for the human. 44:51.628 --> 44:52.910 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's sex is for the human. 44:53.110 --> 44:55.513 [SPEAKER_03]: And actually, you're not very good at it early in marriage. 44:56.235 --> 44:58.278 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, despite thinking how beautiful you are. 44:58.438 --> 45:01.603 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm almost dead to ask, what do you mean by good at it? 45:01.723 --> 45:03.946 [SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, yeah, what does that mean? 45:04.307 --> 45:06.670 [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't know how to serve each other. 45:06.830 --> 45:10.496 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we didn't know what actually felt good for the others. 45:10.516 --> 45:10.736 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. 45:11.097 --> 45:15.323 [SPEAKER_03]: And even if we thought we did, we weren't very good at accomplishing that purpose. 45:15.303 --> 45:32.828 [SPEAKER_03]: It was there was a lot of awkwardness not like in that for some people that can mean embarrassment and getting used to it and that's for for sure, but That can yeah, even just literally logistically like how how are we doing this or that This position or that position is this working. 45:33.268 --> 45:36.553 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we we just telling me something different. 45:36.573 --> 45:40.078 [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't know Let me put it this way 45:40.058 --> 45:46.265 [SPEAKER_03]: After almost 19 years of marriage, we know each other so, so well. 45:46.385 --> 45:46.686 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 45:47.086 --> 45:48.588 [SPEAKER_03]: And we know each other's bodies. 45:48.969 --> 45:49.429 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 45:49.489 --> 45:50.050 [SPEAKER_02]: So well. 45:50.130 --> 45:50.390 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 45:50.831 --> 46:01.223 [SPEAKER_03]: And in the idea of like being more one, like I feel like I know her body, like the back of my hand now, and I think her me, 46:01.203 --> 46:01.543 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 46:01.884 --> 46:04.308 [SPEAKER_03]: And the shoot, we've all been married for 19 years. 46:04.368 --> 46:09.255 [SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully we're going to be married for 40 or 50, 60 years before we That's a great part of the survey. 46:09.275 --> 46:09.976 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a great point. 46:10.156 --> 46:13.160 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's what you mean by, that's what you mean by getting better. 46:13.181 --> 46:13.801 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I mean. 46:13.862 --> 46:18.388 [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I actually think as I think this is a helpful category for scriptively. 46:18.628 --> 46:23.135 [SPEAKER_03]: So for fathers who are listening and hopefully you've now gotten your wife to listen along with you. 46:23.155 --> 46:27.902 [SPEAKER_03]: So you can have a conversation about it to be a student of the other over your life. 46:29.165 --> 46:32.388 [SPEAKER_03]: emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, but also sexually. 46:32.949 --> 46:43.759 [SPEAKER_03]: To say, we have a lifetime to practice, figuring out what lights you up, what makes you feel loved, what makes you feel desired. 46:44.120 --> 46:44.400 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 46:44.420 --> 46:48.904 [SPEAKER_03]: What kind of encounter you enjoy and what kind of encounter encounter, encounter I enjoy. 46:49.445 --> 46:52.228 [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're different and practicing both. 46:52.768 --> 46:54.750 [SPEAKER_03]: I love thinking about sex as practice. 46:54.730 --> 46:57.420 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because I think it frees you from the a lot. 46:57.440 --> 47:03.441 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it frees you from the pressures of performance and getting it right every time and let's you say 47:04.653 --> 47:07.177 [SPEAKER_03]: It can just be a date night where we're practicing again. 47:07.337 --> 47:07.557 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 47:07.597 --> 47:09.620 [SPEAKER_03]: They can just be Saturday where we're practicing again. 47:09.861 --> 47:16.070 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I think if you're going to practice anything, you probably need to be practicing every week. 47:16.571 --> 47:16.931 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 47:16.951 --> 47:19.355 [SPEAKER_03]: If you can multiple times a week, yeah. 47:19.375 --> 47:21.258 [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to get good at anything if you're doing it once a month. 47:21.638 --> 47:22.099 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 47:22.119 --> 47:23.962 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and that could be different for everybody. 47:24.502 --> 47:31.032 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think probably most people of range of normal is going to be you're going to be trying to practice at least weekly. 47:31.568 --> 47:39.498 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just going to say, there's a couple of things that I know we do practically that are very helpful, and it's not about intensity. 47:39.518 --> 47:41.501 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about consistency, right? 47:41.681 --> 47:44.024 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the idea of what the intensity is good. 47:44.044 --> 47:45.966 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, intensity and certainty. 47:46.066 --> 47:46.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 47:47.008 --> 47:49.971 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to be by simply that is like the consistency is the win there. 47:51.253 --> 47:55.298 [SPEAKER_01]: The things that I'll just highlight that it can be practical, just hopefully to encourage those listening. 47:55.278 --> 48:07.117 [SPEAKER_03]: is I think to have an agreed upon time at least, like we've talked about weekly, like not on my friends say this, like that scheduling sex in this season of life. 48:07.798 --> 48:12.105 [SPEAKER_03]: And as in agreed upon time, or the same, yes, it becomes a good anchor. 48:12.085 --> 48:15.750 [SPEAKER_01]: So for some that feels like the romance is gone right we can't do it now. 48:15.790 --> 48:37.637 [SPEAKER_01]: I would just highlight your own Manus is not gone if you are barely having sex because you're waiting to feel like it You might there there's the romance gone then there's something you need to do to consistently like there is a whole reality of once you start practicing The your heart warms to this more and more so I I would just highlight to you for some it might feel rigid but the point really is 48:37.617 --> 48:39.727 [SPEAKER_01]: Find a time that you can agree upon. 48:39.747 --> 48:46.277 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't for Elizabeth and I and this is a TMI, but like Maybe I'll be the judge that yeah 48:47.388 --> 48:53.638 [SPEAKER_01]: And my wife will do is, you know, Sabbath is a great time for us to connect. 48:53.859 --> 48:58.546 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that if it's Saturday, your boys do and stuff like things are happening. 48:59.187 --> 49:04.235 [SPEAKER_01]: And and and basically we don't really even have to talk about it anymore. 49:04.275 --> 49:12.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't we don't we don't mention like yeah, Saturday afternoon is coming she we know like this is this is like built into our rhythm of life. 49:12.143 --> 49:29.090 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's where, yes, what started as a schedule is now a rhythm, yes, and I think that is super, if that helps you, then do it listener if I would say learn I are a mix of both like we we pretty religiously practice a weekly date night. 49:29.290 --> 49:35.400 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I mean, it's almost always going to include sex here. 49:36.359 --> 49:51.363 [SPEAKER_03]: So there is a rhythm of, you know, at least on date night, we're going to have sex, but then there's spot nitty on like what other night, you know, and it's definitely, it would be unusual for date night to be our only night. 49:51.583 --> 49:51.804 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 49:51.984 --> 49:52.545 [SPEAKER_03]: Now. 49:52.525 --> 49:53.987 [SPEAKER_03]: What's helpful and unhelpful about that? 49:54.027 --> 49:55.350 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you take something helpful about that. 49:55.390 --> 49:58.154 [SPEAKER_03]: There's both rhythm and spontaneity. 49:58.375 --> 49:58.815 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 49:58.835 --> 50:07.750 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I also know some people who are like, um, it's helpful to not expect sex on a date night. 50:07.730 --> 50:13.536 [SPEAKER_03]: So that they can really focus on conversational and emotional intimacy and intellectual intimacy. 50:14.317 --> 50:19.322 [SPEAKER_03]: And that is a bit strange to me, but I know it's very not strange to other people. 50:19.702 --> 50:20.543 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's fine too. 50:20.783 --> 50:29.032 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes though also the power if it works for your dynamic, like I know for me sometimes it's like, hey, can we have sex before we go to talk? 50:29.052 --> 50:31.534 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I will be so much more present. 50:31.995 --> 50:32.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 50:33.656 --> 50:35.458 [SPEAKER_01]: If this happens first, 50:35.438 --> 50:39.502 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes she's like, we have not connected emotionally for me to connect physically. 50:39.562 --> 50:43.445 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm, I have a connect physically like so who is right? 50:43.465 --> 50:44.086 [SPEAKER_01]: Who is the other life? 50:44.106 --> 50:49.631 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, obviously, maybe because there's no way there's no exactly what you're gonna lose that. 50:49.651 --> 50:50.331 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm out on that one. 50:50.351 --> 50:51.112 [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be so. 50:51.272 --> 50:54.675 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the point really is, you know, and I'll say this. 50:55.096 --> 50:58.679 [SPEAKER_01]: We have an anchor, but then also they're similar thing. 50:58.979 --> 51:00.380 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not only that time. 51:00.761 --> 51:05.445 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's, there's always that, I know me mentally as a man. 51:05.425 --> 51:10.129 [SPEAKER_01]: it coming in the future, so Saturday is always seven days away. 51:10.149 --> 51:19.098 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can know that and then also to say like if I'm gone or we have a scheduled conflict, I'm usually the one that brings it up, surprise surprise. 51:19.738 --> 51:24.563 [SPEAKER_01]: When are we going to, when would be a good time if this isn't happening? 51:24.583 --> 51:27.365 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we change it in that space. 51:27.946 --> 51:29.367 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's just a highlight. 51:29.527 --> 51:30.188 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 51:30.208 --> 51:32.310 [SPEAKER_03]: You said something 51:32.290 --> 51:34.753 [SPEAKER_03]: You are the one to bring it up. 51:35.494 --> 51:38.639 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think some of the highs are good at this. 51:39.059 --> 51:40.702 [SPEAKER_03]: Some of you guys can't stop talking about it. 51:40.982 --> 51:43.425 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this is, I raised my hand in that category. 51:43.445 --> 51:45.969 [SPEAKER_03]: If you asked Lauren, she's like, yeah, he's always talking about sex. 51:45.989 --> 51:46.089 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 51:46.449 --> 51:48.152 [SPEAKER_03]: But even with me, he does. 51:48.372 --> 51:52.037 [SPEAKER_03]: I think some people in the, I brought it up a lot with you. 51:52.017 --> 52:14.211 [SPEAKER_03]: I think some people in difficult seasons of marriage for sure, and those seasons can lead to times where I think as men we check out in surrender, and maybe out of bitterness, maybe out of fear, maybe I don't even know what it is, but you lose the capacity or the willingness to bring it up and talk about it. 52:14.191 --> 52:25.026 [SPEAKER_03]: I think some people are in that space and I just want to encourage you, if that's the space you're in, it you've, again, you got to fight for the joy, if the fight for the practice. 52:25.968 --> 52:29.873 [SPEAKER_03]: And you can't be sitting around waiting for this to happen. 52:29.973 --> 52:32.157 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't be sitting around waiting for the other person to bring it up. 52:32.277 --> 52:32.457 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep. 52:32.717 --> 52:41.650 [SPEAKER_03]: It probably goes for husbands and wives, but we're talking to the husband's 52:41.630 --> 52:41.990 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 52:42.131 --> 52:46.256 [SPEAKER_03]: So that you can work through the emotional intimacy to get to the physical intimacy. 52:46.797 --> 52:54.527 [SPEAKER_03]: So I just want to encourage anybody out there who hasn't talked about it or struggling with dissatisfaction and hasn't brought it up, like, bring it up. 52:54.547 --> 52:56.770 [SPEAKER_03]: If you can, this has been a theme all season. 52:56.810 --> 53:02.898 [SPEAKER_03]: If you can name something, you're fast on your way to working on healing it. 53:02.998 --> 53:05.021 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't fix everything, but you can't name it. 53:05.581 --> 53:10.708 [SPEAKER_03]: But you're going to be a lot closer to healing. 53:10.688 --> 53:17.257 [SPEAKER_01]: or, and use, I think you use your sex life as a barometer. 53:17.277 --> 53:19.060 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry to cut you off, I just feel like it's better now. 53:19.120 --> 53:21.083 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a barometer of health in your marriage. 53:22.204 --> 53:23.266 [SPEAKER_03]: I think talk about it. 53:23.366 --> 53:24.528 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's so true. 53:24.708 --> 53:26.330 [SPEAKER_01]: There's this terrible phrase. 53:26.491 --> 53:28.333 [SPEAKER_01]: It's terrible as a wrong word, it's just really cheesy. 53:28.814 --> 53:33.861 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's from a pastor I had heard of ages ago, a couple that lays together, stays together. 53:34.988 --> 53:36.271 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember that that's free. 53:36.591 --> 53:37.132 [SPEAKER_01]: That's free. 53:37.253 --> 53:39.157 [SPEAKER_01]: That'll be in your head forever. 53:39.197 --> 53:41.662 [SPEAKER_01]: They're welcome in here that please say that's your wife. 53:41.682 --> 53:42.604 [SPEAKER_01]: See how she feels about that. 53:44.187 --> 53:47.935 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was a joke slash sincere that 53:48.353 --> 53:51.115 [SPEAKER_01]: any time you look at a real breakdown in a marriage really. 53:51.155 --> 53:58.281 [SPEAKER_01]: The sex life is either non-existent, especially as I was a pastor for 18 years in the local church. 53:59.102 --> 54:10.212 [SPEAKER_01]: The amount of couples that I would meet with, the amount of pre-marital that I would do, whenever you would meet with a couple, and sex was not one of the anchors of their relationship. 54:11.072 --> 54:17.618 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, I mean, it was every single time you could see 54:17.598 --> 54:18.179 [SPEAKER_01]: through point. 54:18.299 --> 54:22.243 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think it is a barometer of health in your relationship. 54:22.263 --> 54:30.231 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not working through things to a level where you can be intimate and close and connected with each other on a physical level in that way, it's a deeper thing. 54:30.271 --> 54:34.115 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're listening to this, you're like, yeah, we haven't had sex for a month. 54:34.255 --> 54:42.424 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that's a good moment for you to go, hey, like, well, maybe she had a baby or maybe you guys, you know, there's circumstances when it will change. 54:42.404 --> 55:06.403 [SPEAKER_01]: But in general, if everything's, you know, considered normal and you guys are just not connecting out of just busyness or distraction or not dealing with the deeper thing, that's that should raise a little bit of a flag for you to say, we got some stuff to do with yes, I 100% agree and also want to add things like sex that are so central to how God made us and so powerful. 55:06.383 --> 55:19.193 [SPEAKER_03]: Two things can be true at once, and the other side of that truth, which is just equally as true, is that sex is not just the, like, the barometer of how it's going. 55:20.657 --> 55:22.080 [SPEAKER_03]: It's also 55:22.060 --> 55:27.746 [SPEAKER_03]: often the thermostat, if you will, like working on it, changes everything else, right? 55:27.766 --> 55:30.409 [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe the thermometer and thermostat is the right metaphor there. 55:30.429 --> 55:32.091 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think of it as root and cause. 55:32.392 --> 55:32.592 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 55:32.852 --> 55:41.542 [SPEAKER_03]: As in a resulting cause, you know, if a healthy sex life is often the result of so much other work. 55:41.562 --> 55:47.629 [SPEAKER_03]: And so when you see it disappear, you're like, who's something way upstream has gone wrong. 55:47.609 --> 55:48.250 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 55:48.270 --> 55:51.595 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's also true that to work back, you need to start working on sex. 55:51.615 --> 55:57.244 [SPEAKER_03]: So you can't just work on the emotional stuff or you can't just work on the experiential stuff. 55:57.264 --> 56:01.851 [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's a both and it's a whole lot and the result of a healthy marriage. 56:01.891 --> 56:07.440 [SPEAKER_03]: So and I think not always but more typically, I think wives need to hear this. 56:07.480 --> 56:08.421 [SPEAKER_03]: And again, we're talking to husband. 56:08.461 --> 56:11.266 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not like not like I'm trying to talk over somebody's shoulders here. 56:11.326 --> 56:12.688 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll just say what Lauren says. 56:12.668 --> 56:27.811 [SPEAKER_03]: Lauren would tell you that early, actually before we got married, one of her female mentors in her life, a woman told her, when you get married, you need to think of sex as spiritual power. 56:27.851 --> 56:42.152 [SPEAKER_03]: As in, when you are practicing it with your husband, you are giving your marriage an incredible power that you will not be able to fully understand or describe, but you will know 56:42.132 --> 56:50.383 [SPEAKER_03]: And when you, you are causing something to happen when you engage in sex and healthy way and intimate way of desire and desires way. 56:51.584 --> 56:52.846 [SPEAKER_03]: And man, I'm so thankful. 56:52.906 --> 56:54.588 [SPEAKER_03]: I learned I think is always thought like that. 56:55.429 --> 57:00.195 [SPEAKER_03]: And I could not articulate all the ways that I feel protected and kept. 57:02.618 --> 57:10.789 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, protected and kept safe because of the way that she believes that when we're working on sex, 57:10.769 --> 57:11.752 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 57:11.772 --> 57:13.939 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a wonderful service to our marriage. 57:14.059 --> 57:17.670 [SPEAKER_03]: I think the same, you know, but it's easier for me to think the same. 57:17.690 --> 57:19.516 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, of course, I'm going to take it. 57:19.536 --> 57:22.585 [SPEAKER_03]: And I really really appreciate that she does too. 57:22.706 --> 57:24.812 [SPEAKER_03]: And she thinks that we must be working on this. 57:25.180 --> 57:27.223 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's very helpful. 57:27.523 --> 57:31.750 [SPEAKER_01]: It brings up the reality common thing all here. 57:32.491 --> 57:39.741 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is even very cultural for sure, but there's a lot of men being disappointed or wishing their wife would initiate sex more. 57:40.202 --> 57:43.767 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, almost like, no, maybe, I don't know if you experience it. 57:43.787 --> 57:51.398 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, of course we do, but I'm saying, but I want to highlight this because I think there's maybe a lot of men listening that are kind of bitter about that. 57:51.418 --> 57:54.563 [SPEAKER_01]: Like why can't you, how come she doesn't initiate it? 57:55.167 --> 58:10.266 [SPEAKER_01]: And I discovered a long time ago, if I again, I'm not comparing to the outside world, but I'm looking at my marriage, I'm looking at my personality, I'm looking at my wife's personality, the truth is, by nature, I'm an initiator. 58:10.667 --> 58:23.723 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that is not just in sex, that's actually in a lot of things, conversation, conflict, you name it, I initiate, like I have no problem starting the combo, getting into it. 58:23.703 --> 58:27.748 [SPEAKER_01]: Initiations really hard for her just on lots of levels, not even sexual, but on other levels. 58:27.768 --> 58:29.170 [SPEAKER_01]: She's not necessarily an issue. 58:29.190 --> 58:32.174 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, she's amazing at she's the most amazing responder. 58:32.415 --> 58:38.743 [SPEAKER_01]: If I initiate anything, she's the first one on the line to help with it to be their present to do it. 58:38.823 --> 58:46.494 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I had to for a long time realize like, this is not going to her felt need for sex is not as strong as mine by a long shot. 58:46.514 --> 58:49.237 [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't have the felt need like sweetheart. 58:49.678 --> 58:51.280 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? 58:51.260 --> 58:56.047 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm laughing because Lauren often say, you don't wait long enough for me to be ready to do an issue. 58:56.167 --> 58:57.729 [SPEAKER_03]: She's like, hi, I need a month. 58:57.749 --> 58:59.651 [SPEAKER_03]: She's like, my sex drive hasn't gone on sad. 58:59.672 --> 59:03.417 [SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't since we got married because like, I'm just on a different cycle than you. 59:03.437 --> 59:05.299 [SPEAKER_00]: I should tell her it must be nice. 59:05.319 --> 59:06.321 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I always look at it. 59:06.341 --> 59:07.122 [SPEAKER_03]: I must be great. 59:07.302 --> 59:07.502 [SPEAKER_03]: You. 59:08.143 --> 59:08.784 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm on a show. 59:08.824 --> 59:10.086 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm on a daily cycle. 59:11.087 --> 59:11.368 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 59:11.808 --> 59:14.652 [SPEAKER_03]: I think they're actually helpful stats. 59:14.632 --> 59:16.037 [SPEAKER_03]: here and you can go look them out. 59:16.418 --> 59:22.819 [SPEAKER_03]: I think if I'm getting right it's like some 70% of females are typically 59:23.980 --> 59:29.870 [SPEAKER_03]: responsive, the responsive desire is what they experience. 59:29.990 --> 59:40.287 [SPEAKER_03]: So they're actually really into it, but if someone else initiates and initiates proper and most males are like on the bell curves like we're an issue of desire. 59:40.807 --> 59:43.953 [SPEAKER_03]: But of course, the seritaps don't always overlap. 59:44.033 --> 59:45.255 [SPEAKER_03]: It can be vice versa. 59:45.415 --> 59:46.797 [SPEAKER_03]: And you can both be on one side of the other. 59:46.937 --> 59:47.338 [SPEAKER_03]: But 59:47.318 --> 01:00:17.241 [SPEAKER_01]: I just agree with you it's helpful to know that there is a category of responsive desire and you don't need to feel bad if your wife's not initiating in fact that's part of your role to you know will her Yeah, romance and if your wife shares that initiation role or let me just say this there's different seasons right there's certain seasons where maybe she is initiating and then then then the kid stage I mean I'll never forget when my wife told me she's like listen I've been touched and and I mean she's breastfeeding at the time I've been touched and sucked on 01:00:17.221 --> 01:00:18.624 [SPEAKER_01]: all day. 01:00:18.924 --> 01:00:23.513 [SPEAKER_01]: My body has been feeding humans and everyone has touched me everywhere. 01:00:24.354 --> 01:00:27.260 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really not in the space to be touched by you too. 01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:30.185 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, you know, just try not to die. 01:00:30.245 --> 01:00:31.387 [SPEAKER_01]: Why everybody else? 01:00:31.427 --> 01:00:35.635 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I made these friggin babies. 01:00:35.615 --> 01:00:36.776 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah. 01:00:36.796 --> 01:00:40.500 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would just say like it that's another evolving thing. 01:00:40.540 --> 01:00:45.226 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's seasons where it's like her felt need is different. 01:00:45.366 --> 01:00:53.235 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, I think my wife is similar to Lauren Elizabeth thinks the same where she understands the importance of the dynamic. 01:00:53.855 --> 01:00:59.522 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also think that sometimes you're not in the mood for something until somebody gives you a reason to. 01:00:59.762 --> 01:01:05.368 [SPEAKER_01]: So let me just say like sometimes it's like, hey, I know you're not in the mood yet, but like 01:01:05.348 --> 01:01:06.810 [SPEAKER_01]: can you give me an opportunity to try? 01:01:06.970 --> 01:01:08.974 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a great way to do it. 01:01:09.314 --> 01:01:12.198 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you stay out of the mood, maybe this is just a one-sided event. 01:01:12.238 --> 01:01:18.989 [SPEAKER_03]: But if it's not like, you know, I think in a healthy marriage, that is possible. 01:01:19.129 --> 01:01:26.600 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's I think that is the sign of health, where you where you can ask without anger, can I try to get you in the mean thing? 01:01:26.620 --> 01:01:28.403 [SPEAKER_03]: And she can respond without bitterness, 01:01:29.142 --> 01:01:30.143 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can try. 01:01:30.303 --> 01:01:31.184 [SPEAKER_00]: You can try. 01:01:31.264 --> 01:01:32.385 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, girl, eight orders. 01:01:32.445 --> 01:01:33.326 [SPEAKER_00]: You can get me a challenge. 01:01:33.366 --> 01:01:33.987 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going for it. 01:01:34.007 --> 01:01:35.308 [SPEAKER_03]: That means you're comfortable with failure. 01:01:35.328 --> 01:01:37.631 [SPEAKER_03]: You're comfortable with temporary rejection. 01:01:37.691 --> 01:01:39.212 [SPEAKER_03]: You're comfortable with the range of outcomes. 01:01:39.633 --> 01:01:41.455 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a sign of health. 01:01:41.975 --> 01:01:48.462 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just laughing because I think about the times of like, anytime she says, like, she's like, you can try. 01:01:48.482 --> 01:01:49.543 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, are you kidding? 01:01:49.803 --> 01:01:54.728 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, now you've just given me a start cracking your knuckles. 01:01:54.708 --> 01:01:58.133 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, you just gave me a task of my favorite kind. 01:01:58.193 --> 01:01:59.295 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, no problem. 01:01:59.695 --> 01:02:09.589 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's so funny because, and we're talking real, we're trying to be practical here because this is like the realness, the rawness of like what we experienced on a weekly daily basis. 01:02:09.609 --> 01:02:12.433 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think also it may be to highlight disappointments apart of that. 01:02:12.473 --> 01:02:20.665 [SPEAKER_01]: There's times when your sex drives don't line up, a lot of the times they might, there's could be just long stretches of your marriage that they just never line up. 01:02:20.645 --> 01:02:44.442 [SPEAKER_01]: I had some friends in a different stage of life in all their stage of life and he was an older guy and this was actually probably almost eight years ago now we were in a group like a men's group together and we were just kind of sharing some of the burdens of the moment of our life that we had been in and he was in his mid-50s at the time I think. 01:02:44.422 --> 01:02:53.094 [SPEAKER_01]: And I actually did known very well, but he like for the first time was like really open and honest with all the guys with what he had been struggling with and I was like, oh man, he's going to admit to porn use or something. 01:02:53.114 --> 01:02:56.659 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure he's he just the way he was teeing it up was like he's going to confess something big. 01:02:57.180 --> 01:02:57.881 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was listening. 01:02:57.901 --> 01:03:01.666 [SPEAKER_01]: I was leaning in and he said I'm just really feeling sad. 01:03:01.706 --> 01:03:05.451 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been married for over 35 years. 01:03:05.431 --> 01:03:11.259 [SPEAKER_01]: And my wife has never experienced an orgasm ever, like in her whole life. 01:03:11.479 --> 01:03:14.984 [SPEAKER_01]: She's just her body has never been able to experience orgasm. 01:03:15.905 --> 01:03:21.392 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've been able to have kids and we've had a couple kids all this different stuff, but she's never been able to experience that. 01:03:21.772 --> 01:03:28.561 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just remember thinking, like, whoa, I've never thought about that as a dynamic. 01:03:28.621 --> 01:03:32.907 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know, you know, you just, obviously everyone has different situations. 01:03:32.887 --> 01:03:44.501 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was so interesting to me to think about, wow, the active like serving her husband for her is like probably a lot different. 01:03:45.301 --> 01:03:46.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Like sex for men is easy. 01:03:47.664 --> 01:03:49.566 [SPEAKER_01]: In general, in general, it's not a challenging thing. 01:03:50.147 --> 01:04:00.379 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think even that that wife and they were still intimate actively, you know, realizing just like how one sided in service oriented that act was for her, 01:04:00.359 --> 01:04:18.672 [SPEAKER_01]: And also maybe feel like so bad for her and then at the same time realizing like what a beautiful example this is of like marriage he's being honest about morning the fact that like she doesn't ever seem into this ever because she doesn't honestly in a physical way get anything out of it that she would even know you know. 01:04:18.652 --> 01:04:26.388 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all to just highlight, that's just one dynamic of many that you just have to hold in your marriages. 01:04:26.689 --> 01:04:30.998 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think just like there's beauty and there's joy in marriage. 01:04:33.523 --> 01:04:35.327 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of pain in sex as well. 01:04:35.307 --> 01:04:42.578 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's disappointment and there's times when you think you should be able to get more and do more and want more. 01:04:42.638 --> 01:04:47.645 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I think that's the lie of the culture that we've been in your life. 01:04:47.865 --> 01:04:53.433 [SPEAKER_01]: It does not exist to just gather and to take, it's actually to give away. 01:04:53.453 --> 01:04:58.160 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if we use a framework of season two that we've been talking about, how do you give your life away? 01:04:58.641 --> 01:05:00.724 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you give your sex life away to your spouse? 01:05:00.704 --> 01:05:02.027 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right. 01:05:02.087 --> 01:05:03.329 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a great posture to win. 01:05:03.589 --> 01:05:05.914 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like how do we do that? 01:05:06.054 --> 01:05:08.238 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I don't think this is easy. 01:05:08.399 --> 01:05:13.228 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, there's a thousand things we we didn't even have time to talk about in this episode and we know that. 01:05:13.368 --> 01:05:17.616 [SPEAKER_01]: But we wanted at least start with some framework of understanding intimacy, understanding. 01:05:17.596 --> 01:05:22.607 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, sexist sacrament, there's beauty that happens in the heavenly is that when you make love that you don't even see. 01:05:23.308 --> 01:05:27.838 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the main thing that we can say is men initiate the conversation. 01:05:27.938 --> 01:05:33.089 [SPEAKER_01]: If your wife hasn't talked to you about it in your feeling uncomfortable or you know you just need to talk about it. 01:05:33.370 --> 01:05:34.071 [SPEAKER_01]: Just initiate. 01:05:34.151 --> 01:05:36.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Say hey, I'd love to have a conversation about sex life. 01:05:36.817 --> 01:05:41.202 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard sometimes because there's pain there, and there's discipline, and sometimes you don't say it, right? 01:05:41.302 --> 01:05:46.248 [SPEAKER_03]: But a bad hard conversation would be a great way to start, because it's not going to start another way. 01:05:46.609 --> 01:05:48.071 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true. 01:05:48.271 --> 01:05:50.333 [SPEAKER_03]: You need to, you need to talk about it. 01:05:50.373 --> 01:05:52.836 [SPEAKER_03]: And you need, I think my theme of this is practice. 01:05:52.896 --> 01:06:02.588 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you sex within marriage is something you practice, so you can be practicing the covenant, practicing the self-sacrifice, practicing the love. 01:06:02.568 --> 01:06:06.155 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a great one for people to send questions on that because there's a lot of things we didn't talk about. 01:06:06.796 --> 01:06:12.508 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of things we might have said that's highly specific to our marriage or a lot of things that you might have questions on the Tyler's specific to your marriage. 01:06:12.548 --> 01:06:14.793 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, tell us that voice memo. 01:06:14.873 --> 01:06:16.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello at intentionalfatherhood.org. 01:06:17.097 --> 01:06:20.003 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe lastly, just to close it is. 01:06:20.995 --> 01:06:22.577 [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many nuances to this. 01:06:22.657 --> 01:06:29.707 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way that we would, you know, we are two heterosexual males in a very particular dynamic. 01:06:29.827 --> 01:06:41.383 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that there's, you know, 50 other dynamics and potential things that we can't speak to or talk to, but your fatherhood needs you to have a healthy sex life. 01:06:41.363 --> 01:06:42.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, with your spouse. 01:06:43.345 --> 01:07:01.606 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it needs you to have a healthy sex life and it doesn't and again healthy defined by your spouse and you and your limitations and your health and and as you guys step into that like can I just encourage kind of give permission to all the couples listening. 01:07:02.667 --> 01:07:06.051 [SPEAKER_01]: After listening to this if it if it functionally makes sense. 01:07:07.012 --> 01:07:08.113 [SPEAKER_01]: Go make love like. 01:07:08.498 --> 01:07:23.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Please this is permission for the next 24 to 48 hours go practice go practice like this is a good gift and sometimes we overthink it and sometimes it is really complex but sometimes it's like how man we just we just need to step into this so. 01:07:23.770 --> 01:07:43.059 [SPEAKER_01]: Man, I don't I don't think you need the permission to want, but I think in general if you're listening to this as a couple like step into this the bonus episode to you is permission to make love go have a connection time with your spouse and enjoy it can't wait for can't wait for all the questions on this by me to send them in signing off. 01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:45.002 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hello at intentional father.org. 01:07:44.982 --> 01:07:46.265 [SPEAKER_01]: can't wait to hear all of them. 01:07:46.325 --> 01:07:50.474 [SPEAKER_01]: And just remember, if you're sending a voice memo, we'll hear your voice and so other people. 01:07:50.514 --> 01:07:52.780 [SPEAKER_03]: And it might get played on the podcast. 01:07:52.940 --> 01:07:57.009 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't want your friends to know your question, maybe use a voice disguiser. 01:07:57.089 --> 01:07:59.314 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not just going to say. 01:07:59.334 --> 01:08:00.377 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's it. 01:08:00.637 --> 01:08:01.860 [SPEAKER_01]: Bonus episode on sex.