WEBVTT 00:00.031 --> 00:12.792 [SPEAKER_02]: Today on the Relationship Renovation Podcast Part 2 of the Communication Series, validation, active listening, repair attempts, three essential skills in having a happy relationship. 00:17.530 --> 00:21.656 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, all, and welcome to the Relationship Innovation podcast. 00:21.776 --> 00:23.338 [SPEAKER_00]: My name is Tira Kerwin. 00:23.658 --> 00:25.881 [SPEAKER_02]: And my name is EJ Kerwin. 00:26.041 --> 00:42.964 [SPEAKER_02]: And we are right smack dab in the middle of the communication series, which is a, which we sort of pulled out of our, our model, whether it be our in-office model, our coaching model, or our Patreon model of, 00:43.315 --> 00:51.806 [SPEAKER_02]: of how we deliver relationship renovation, which is helping couples have the loving, secure relationship that they want. 00:52.287 --> 00:57.353 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's all about learning the skills and communication is a skill that we are often not taught. 00:57.433 --> 01:05.224 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that is why the series is really important and we're just really happy that you're here listening and trying to perfect the skills as much as we can. 01:05.244 --> 01:07.026 [SPEAKER_00]: Could we still get it wrong all the time? 01:07.166 --> 01:07.787 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 01:08.147 --> 01:10.150 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, you know, our 01:10.130 --> 01:32.610 [SPEAKER_02]: the way in which we work with couples gets into some really like deep who you are as a person but we believe that like if you don't have the communication skills to talk about those things if you aren't able to do some of the things we're going to talk about today it makes it almost impossible to do that deep work that's going to make you feel really 01:32.590 --> 01:35.715 [SPEAKER_02]: You know incredibly close to your partner. 01:35.955 --> 01:40.282 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to allow you guys to navigate difficult issues together in successful ways. 01:40.302 --> 01:47.213 [SPEAKER_02]: So, so in the first part of the communication series, we talked just we kind of had fun with it. 01:47.273 --> 01:48.876 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just this last episode. 01:48.916 --> 01:52.922 [SPEAKER_02]: If you haven't listened to it, jump back and give it a listen or watch it on YouTube. 01:53.764 --> 01:55.847 [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a do and don't. 01:55.827 --> 02:04.424 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, all the things that kind of get us into trouble and we don't mean for it to it's not like right we said we don't wake up like how can I invalidate my partner today, but we do it all the time. 02:04.444 --> 02:05.245 [SPEAKER_02]: We look they don't matter. 02:06.307 --> 02:12.840 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we do it sort of a playful way where we use examples a lot of them are examples from our life. 02:12.820 --> 02:18.914 [SPEAKER_02]: where we throw out what maybe I say and then how terror responds and vice versa. 02:19.295 --> 02:25.589 [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things we do is we really normalize it is like these are like instinctive responses that make sense. 02:25.669 --> 02:27.934 [SPEAKER_02]: We're like, whoa, this is what I should say. 02:27.975 --> 02:31.723 [SPEAKER_02]: This is my truth or whatever, but they end up 02:31.703 --> 02:34.167 [SPEAKER_02]: doing things that aren't good for our relationship. 02:34.187 --> 02:42.179 [SPEAKER_00]: And we really want you guys to be able to take those same situations, the same arguments, and have a completely different outcome. 02:42.279 --> 02:45.404 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why we're doing the series because it could be the same stuff. 02:45.844 --> 02:52.835 [SPEAKER_00]: But the feeling is very different because now you have the skills and you're trying to use some of them imperfectly of course. 02:53.276 --> 02:56.260 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's different outcomes to it and it's actually really awesome stuff. 02:56.324 --> 03:13.793 [SPEAKER_02]: And so today, we're going to talk about what we think are that probably the two most essential skills in having healthy communication in your relationship, the first one is validation and the second is active listening. 03:13.773 --> 03:23.723 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and one of a really important thing Tara is going to dive in a little bit deeper here, validation and act of listening, they work totally well together. 03:24.064 --> 03:41.502 [SPEAKER_02]: Validation doesn't mean necessarily I agree with everything that Tara is saying or her perception of a moment in time, but just that I acknowledge what she is feeling and acknowledge on some of what her perception is and that it truly is her perception. 03:41.532 --> 04:00.418 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll also talk about repair attempts so that way, you know, a lot of couples get into these arguments and then they maybe sweep it under the rug and they wait a couple of days in our goal is to like be able to stop these maybe midpoint or even after, but repair attempts are going to be really important to because we're going to get it. 04:00.398 --> 04:06.032 [SPEAKER_00]: Wrong is going to be a lot of trial and errors, but yes, validation is just like that. 04:06.073 --> 04:15.657 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, I hear that this was hard for you Not like oh, so you're right and I'm wrong and now I just have to change everything that I am because that's what right we get the couples 04:15.637 --> 04:17.900 [SPEAKER_00]: that are kind of in that defensive spot. 04:17.961 --> 04:31.180 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we really want to clarify defensive listening, active listening, and how to shift just slightly so that you can have solutions to them but feel validated and supported first. 04:31.261 --> 04:33.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it is a loving gesture. 04:33.524 --> 04:54.300 [SPEAKER_02]: So validation is like so essential because really it's it's absolutely basic yet one of the most difficult things that we see couple struggle with in that like there'll be a couple and the one person will say, you know, hey, I felt this this and that. 04:54.280 --> 04:56.823 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm like, okay, what did you hear your partner say? 04:56.843 --> 05:03.692 [SPEAKER_02]: And instead of just saying, I heard that they said that they felt this, this and that, they changed it. 05:03.812 --> 05:05.754 [SPEAKER_02]: They add their perspective, right? 05:05.774 --> 05:17.689 [SPEAKER_02]: And so to define validation, it's using your communication to let your partner know that you heard exactly what they said. 05:17.669 --> 05:21.934 [SPEAKER_00]: and you understand, you're trying to understand. 05:22.094 --> 05:37.310 [SPEAKER_02]: That you heard them, all I'm doing is I'm saying, if Tara says, I'm feeling really sad and lonely this weekend, all I'm saying is like, Tara, I hear that you're feeling sad and lonely this weekend is that, is that right? 05:37.350 --> 05:44.318 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, you can go, we can go deeper than tell me more, but the opposite of validation 05:44.770 --> 05:46.012 [SPEAKER_02]: why are you feeling that? 05:46.052 --> 05:49.797 [SPEAKER_02]: We've had like, you know, we went out to dinner on Friday night. 05:49.837 --> 05:51.600 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's important because this, yes. 05:51.800 --> 05:55.145 [SPEAKER_00]: So most people go into comebacks, right? 05:55.325 --> 05:58.991 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are already like thinking what they want to say back. 05:59.011 --> 06:01.635 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of doing that validation piece first. 06:01.775 --> 06:14.153 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're here to tell you that like it's really hard, especially if your partner is telling you something that feels uncomfortable to validate their experience first because we just 06:14.133 --> 06:16.196 [SPEAKER_00]: You shouldn't feel that way, I didn't say that, that's what happened at all. 06:17.118 --> 06:20.082 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we missed that part of it. 06:20.443 --> 06:35.787 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you can get to the validation first and then go into solutions, it's huge and trust me like we, you could be the smartest, most emotionally intelligent, most red on feelings person in the universe. 06:35.767 --> 06:45.880 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a skill to learn how to validate because we are, we are designed to defend ourselves from anything uncomfortable, which is why a lot of couples avoid conflict and is actually not healthy. 06:46.461 --> 06:51.247 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you guys start to learn these skills, you can actually have conflict and really healthy resolution. 06:51.647 --> 07:02.601 [SPEAKER_00]: And it feels really good because what we do know is that couples that avoid conflict are actually in a bigger mess than if you just have a ton of conflict, because resentment builds. 07:02.581 --> 07:21.805 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and why validation is so important and why you have to work on just letting your partner know you heard exactly what they said is the minute you don't validate the minute you challenge what they said the minute you add your editorialization is the minute you turn it into an argument. 07:21.785 --> 07:32.043 [SPEAKER_02]: And instead of it being your partner just opening up, letting you know what's going on for them, you having the opportunity to understand more deeply, because it might not even have to do with you. 07:32.103 --> 07:37.653 [SPEAKER_02]: It might, they might open up later and say, like, yeah, because there's, I've had a lot going on a week, and blah, blah, blah. 07:38.114 --> 07:43.523 [SPEAKER_02]: But the minute you say, what you said isn't valid, it becomes an argument. 07:43.773 --> 07:47.460 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, anytime there's a, but yes, or yeah, but anything. 07:47.480 --> 07:47.720 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 07:48.101 --> 07:48.782 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 07:48.802 --> 07:57.558 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, and that's why it's important tears about to go into active listening because you can't validate if you don't what actually listen. 07:57.799 --> 07:58.059 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 07:58.280 --> 08:00.704 [SPEAKER_00]: So, well, first of all, signs you're being defensive, E. J. 08:00.744 --> 08:02.007 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me like two or three signs. 08:02.588 --> 08:04.431 [SPEAKER_00]: You know you're being defensive if what? 08:04.411 --> 08:06.376 [SPEAKER_02]: I know I'm being defensive. 08:07.258 --> 08:12.752 [SPEAKER_02]: If I'm already thinking about what I'm gonna say before you've stopped speaking. 08:12.772 --> 08:13.213 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 08:13.313 --> 08:15.779 [SPEAKER_02]: I know for sure, obviously, right? 08:15.859 --> 08:20.952 [SPEAKER_02]: Like if that's happening, that means that I'm gonna turn this into a debate. 08:20.999 --> 08:24.002 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and another one, two is the butt, right? 08:24.082 --> 08:28.205 [SPEAKER_00]: When there's that, yeah, but that's another sign of defensiveness that couples get trapped in. 08:28.806 --> 08:31.188 [SPEAKER_00]: So active listening is basically think of this. 08:31.288 --> 08:38.775 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I care about what my partner's feeling in this moment, defensiveness is like, I'm protecting myself in this moment. 08:39.255 --> 08:40.777 [SPEAKER_00]: So think about that, active listening. 08:40.917 --> 08:47.903 [SPEAKER_00]: I really see that my partners in distress and I want to understand what they're feeling versus, oh my gosh, I have to protect myself right now. 08:48.304 --> 08:51.006 [SPEAKER_00]: So there is a shift in there. 08:50.986 --> 08:54.812 [SPEAKER_00]: piece of like, how do I know if I'm being defensive? 08:55.133 --> 08:56.495 [SPEAKER_00]: How does it feel in my body? 08:56.555 --> 08:57.837 [SPEAKER_00]: What are the thoughts, right? 08:58.218 --> 09:00.422 [SPEAKER_00]: For me, it's like, I can't believe this, right? 09:00.482 --> 09:03.867 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I can't wait to have this come back at him, right? 09:03.947 --> 09:07.593 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's some like, oh, that's actually not good. 09:07.694 --> 09:11.560 [SPEAKER_00]: It's what my biological wiring wants to do. 09:11.540 --> 09:15.704 [SPEAKER_00]: But instead it's like, hey, I see that this is really hard for you. 09:15.744 --> 09:17.485 [SPEAKER_00]: Help me understand what's happening. 09:18.066 --> 09:20.488 [SPEAKER_00]: We got, it is the hardest thing to do. 09:20.948 --> 09:24.552 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do want to understand his frustration, anger, because guess what? 09:25.132 --> 09:28.856 [SPEAKER_00]: Growing up, do you think our parents were like, tell me more about your anger. 09:29.036 --> 09:31.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so you're frustrated that I keep pushing right, we don't get that. 09:31.698 --> 09:34.300 [SPEAKER_00]: So no one processes these feelings with us. 09:34.341 --> 09:41.547 [SPEAKER_00]: So if I can actually heart felt be curious about my partners discomfort, 09:41.527 --> 09:42.889 [SPEAKER_00]: that is active listening. 09:43.169 --> 09:52.360 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I can, you know, talk about whatever my piece is there, because it's not, again, validation is not about like agreeing or being submissive. 09:52.380 --> 09:54.242 [SPEAKER_00]: You can still have boundaries. 09:54.302 --> 09:55.423 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? 09:55.523 --> 10:02.071 [SPEAKER_00]: It is really just, I really care about what's happening for you right now, and I really want to understand. 10:02.471 --> 10:04.834 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want you to know that whatever it is, it's okay. 10:05.270 --> 10:14.325 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot of ways active listening also, it mimics early points in our relationship when we were really connected. 10:14.746 --> 10:17.089 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I remember, we didn't have the baggage there. 10:17.110 --> 10:21.998 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I remember the first few times that I was with Tara. 10:22.038 --> 10:27.126 [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember like sitting at the table at the cup asking her questions. 10:27.106 --> 10:30.332 [SPEAKER_02]: and really listening and wanting to know her better. 10:30.392 --> 10:50.587 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I'm not active listening to her, whether it's in just something that's relatively benign, because active listening isn't just about doing it when you guys are in the midst of conflict or difficult content, it's also just being present throughout the day of I'm really listening to this person. 10:50.827 --> 10:52.590 [SPEAKER_02]: Because what it says is like, 10:52.570 --> 11:01.199 [SPEAKER_02]: I care, like I want to know what is going on for you, even if it's something that's difficult. 11:01.279 --> 11:13.891 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can tell you, for me, especially if there's conflict, it's hard, it's hard because it's a difference between my energy being like over there with you and really paying attention to what you're saying. 11:13.931 --> 11:16.994 [SPEAKER_02]: And it being over here and being like, what? 11:17.215 --> 11:18.196 [SPEAKER_02]: This is BS. 11:18.216 --> 11:22.560 [SPEAKER_02]: I cannot believe 11:22.540 --> 11:25.167 [SPEAKER_00]: like in our communication series in the model. 11:25.187 --> 11:29.718 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like 16 questions around what kind of listener are you? 11:30.180 --> 11:38.220 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's so important because when you can, I don't want to say master the skill, but when you can shift it and learn the skill, how to 11:38.200 --> 11:43.468 [SPEAKER_00]: Validate and know that other people's experience are important, just as important as yours. 11:44.169 --> 11:45.471 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps at your work. 11:45.551 --> 11:46.773 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps with your kids. 11:46.893 --> 11:52.542 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps in your intimate relationship for sure, but we're just not taught to be really good listeners. 11:52.702 --> 11:57.629 [SPEAKER_00]: And so a lot of this work, even in our model, is like, how do I listen? 11:57.689 --> 12:00.914 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I know I'm the worst listener in the whole wide world, you guys. 12:00.934 --> 12:01.435 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, E.J. 12:01.475 --> 12:03.438 [SPEAKER_00]: has said it on multiple podcasts. 12:03.839 --> 12:06.182 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, because I've got like 12:06.162 --> 12:08.985 [SPEAKER_00]: like my little mind goes everywhere. 12:09.005 --> 12:09.105 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:09.866 --> 12:12.448 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like when I'm really trying to listen to E.J. 12:12.468 --> 12:16.572 [SPEAKER_00]: because I know for him being present is like, that's his love language. 12:16.592 --> 12:18.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Like when I'm present with him, he knows I love him. 12:19.175 --> 12:22.859 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have this little thing that I do and I look at like the middle of his two eyebrows. 12:23.359 --> 12:33.469 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like my, that's my focus point because I know if I don't do that, I'll go here and there and crushes after you get and that is why you even saying this, I don't have time for this. 12:33.449 --> 12:39.877 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's okay like I'm compassionate and loving toward my squirrel brain, but it's not helpful to E.J. 12:39.897 --> 12:40.959 [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't make him feel important. 12:40.979 --> 12:46.226 [SPEAKER_00]: So I do these little tricks and you can be like, how can I even be a better listener? 12:46.706 --> 12:54.997 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you're a better listener, you really do start to have more empathy during difficult moments, which is our whole a game changer emotional safety is built. 12:55.017 --> 13:01.245 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, even in listen to what her said, she said like my love language is is having her 13:01.225 --> 13:11.311 [SPEAKER_02]: right and then when she's thinking inside her head like what is he even talking about this I don't have time for this like obviously I catch that non-verbally I catch like she doesn't care about anything. 13:11.331 --> 13:18.289 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying she doesn't care about my perspective I think the other thing that Tara said that's like super important is that 13:18.269 --> 13:35.373 [SPEAKER_02]: the challenges to my active listening are different to tears active listening and that might be a great like sort of question for you to ask yourself right now maybe even pause for a second, especially if you're listening with your partner and be like, what are your challenges to active listening? 13:35.513 --> 13:37.236 [SPEAKER_02]: What are your challenges? 13:37.256 --> 13:41.121 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you know what my challenges aren't about terror. 13:41.101 --> 13:41.842 [SPEAKER_02]: They're about me. 13:42.062 --> 13:43.824 [SPEAKER_02]: They're about like what I'm up against. 13:44.104 --> 13:49.711 [SPEAKER_02]: It's also why we have a whole whole section on mindfulness because what is this? 13:49.731 --> 13:50.712 [SPEAKER_02]: This is awareness. 13:50.732 --> 13:54.156 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the ability to know why I react the way I do. 13:54.516 --> 13:59.983 [SPEAKER_02]: It's also the ability to be in the moment that in order to act of listen, I have to like be present. 14:00.123 --> 14:03.146 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to be like paying attention to what she's saying. 14:03.467 --> 14:08.172 [SPEAKER_02]: And in my case, not listening to my own thoughts because my own thoughts are like, 14:08.152 --> 14:10.334 [SPEAKER_02]: They're often times defensive. 14:10.374 --> 14:18.803 [SPEAKER_02]: They're often times like logical like what she said didn't make and that's what we get a lot of men who are like She said that but like that's not actually true. 14:18.963 --> 14:19.984 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not what happened. 14:20.004 --> 14:20.485 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh. 14:20.525 --> 14:32.617 [SPEAKER_00]: The amount of coaching you guys We have to do in session, which is totally okay, but there's so many miss moments and it's like listen You can't go into this next point without validating your partner's experience. 14:32.637 --> 14:34.699 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, are you already shut out? 14:34.679 --> 14:37.803 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just about shifting the behavior piece. 14:38.544 --> 14:44.312 [SPEAKER_00]: I also wanted to say, like, in this moment during this podcast, I'm really trying it. 14:44.472 --> 14:53.164 [SPEAKER_00]: Trying hard because I'm like, okay, how long is the podcast going to be like, it's my squirrel brain, but I'm like, I'm recognizing it. 14:53.684 --> 14:56.468 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm looking at your between your eyebrows. 14:56.448 --> 15:06.264 [SPEAKER_00]: and staying present feels so much better than being 10 minutes into the future, but again, it's a skill we have to learn. 15:06.865 --> 15:09.048 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is where repair attempts come in. 15:09.529 --> 15:10.711 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, it's a great one. 15:10.731 --> 15:13.235 [SPEAKER_02]: She's moving on to an incredibly important part. 15:13.255 --> 15:14.657 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're going to get it wrong. 15:14.838 --> 15:16.100 [SPEAKER_00]: We get it wrong all the time. 15:16.140 --> 15:17.081 [SPEAKER_00]: We're so much better. 15:17.141 --> 15:19.425 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I've cried in a podcast in a minute. 15:19.565 --> 15:21.308 [SPEAKER_00]: Only because I feel like you're better. 15:21.288 --> 15:28.059 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that we're more connected because the crying would always be like information like something still feels stuck. 15:28.079 --> 15:37.375 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course we're so going to have stuck spots, but I mean we did have a big one like a few weeks ago, so repair attempts are like, oh gosh, that just went really bad, right? 15:37.435 --> 15:41.442 [SPEAKER_00]: Either a one or both, but it's like, hey, can we try that again? 15:41.482 --> 15:44.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just we wind, right? 15:44.126 --> 15:46.570 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say you don't catch a mid sentence. 15:46.550 --> 16:01.293 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why we have code word everybody, it's usually before the communication series because if we know that we can't be present, that we're in a defensive state We're out of our window of tolerance if you will we call code word right burnt host EJ. 16:01.354 --> 16:03.998 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't we got to come back I'm not in a good place. 16:04.018 --> 16:05.560 [SPEAKER_00]: That's perfect awesome. 16:05.580 --> 16:10.448 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't work out all of the time So repair attempt is like hey, can we try that again? 16:10.428 --> 16:12.372 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like that went really bad. 16:12.552 --> 16:15.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Sideways, I didn't even try to listen to your point of view. 16:15.437 --> 16:20.266 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just something that feels softer and recognizing it. 16:20.386 --> 16:23.472 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of sweep it under the rug. 16:23.592 --> 16:26.698 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and two days this tension will be gone. 16:26.678 --> 16:35.815 [SPEAKER_00]: Because idea is, and if you guys are here and you've worked with us or you've worked at our center and gone through it, it's not about taking out conflict and eliminating it. 16:36.216 --> 16:41.366 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about having shorter durations and doing repair attempts, so that's the gotman's word. 16:41.747 --> 16:48.720 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about coming back more quickly and repairing it, so you don't hold on to it, so that the next fight is even 16:48.700 --> 16:55.129 [SPEAKER_00]: more escalated because it stays in your body and so the repair temps would come quick or quicker and quicker and quicker to it. 16:55.169 --> 16:57.853 [SPEAKER_00]: So EG and I like maybe used to be 12 hours. 16:57.954 --> 16:59.676 [SPEAKER_00]: Now it's like within 30 minutes. 16:59.916 --> 17:02.260 [SPEAKER_02]: I can think of a good example just a quick one. 17:02.340 --> 17:02.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh sure. 17:03.121 --> 17:10.933 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it was rainy a couple weeks ago and it was after the rains and you came to me and you were like I think I smelled fungus in the house. 17:11.233 --> 17:11.714 [SPEAKER_00]: You're such a guy. 17:11.794 --> 17:12.615 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, 17:12.595 --> 17:23.988 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, Tara, there's no fungus, there's no gas leak, there's no, you know, I basically just got frustrated by the fact that you thought something, you know, we have black mold or something. 17:24.408 --> 17:25.870 [SPEAKER_02]: And then you got really upset. 17:26.971 --> 17:29.173 [SPEAKER_02]: But I tried to circle back. 17:29.253 --> 17:31.216 [SPEAKER_02]: I tried a repair attempt. 17:31.236 --> 17:37.843 [SPEAKER_02]: I came back a few minutes later when I realized like, oh, I'd really kind of blew that and I said, I hear you, Tara. 17:37.992 --> 17:42.783 [SPEAKER_02]: I hear that you're concerned that smells like there's fungus in our house and maybe we have black mold. 17:42.803 --> 17:49.499 [SPEAKER_02]: And I get that our safety is really important to you and you love the kids, but that's a big, that was a big miss. 17:49.660 --> 17:51.003 [SPEAKER_02]: I did not validate. 17:51.023 --> 17:55.393 [SPEAKER_02]: I have my story that you have a higher level of, 17:55.373 --> 17:59.940 [SPEAKER_02]: concern about our house blowing up and it's like the check engine light. 17:59.960 --> 18:01.302 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the check engine light. 18:01.362 --> 18:02.603 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so true. 18:02.864 --> 18:03.805 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is again. 18:03.925 --> 18:10.875 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, when a check engine light comes on in my little mind, I get really scared like the car is going to blow up. 18:10.895 --> 18:12.698 [SPEAKER_00]: This is just my catastrophic thoughts. 18:12.778 --> 18:18.867 [SPEAKER_00]: I've had them since I was a little girl definitely stems from trauma and easier to be like, that's great. 18:18.847 --> 18:20.069 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about with mechanic? 18:20.670 --> 18:22.532 [SPEAKER_00]: This is like years ago, I remember that. 18:22.552 --> 18:28.741 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would be like this, so then I'm scared to even bring up anything, cause then he's just gonna think I'm crazy. 18:28.761 --> 18:32.386 [SPEAKER_00]: First is now, I will always have my catastrophic thoughts. 18:32.466 --> 18:33.668 [SPEAKER_00]: They are a part of who I am. 18:34.149 --> 18:36.792 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of EJB, like, that's just crazy girl. 18:37.253 --> 18:39.476 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, hey, I hear that, like, safety. 18:39.496 --> 18:40.778 [SPEAKER_00]: This is really important to you. 18:40.798 --> 18:44.263 [SPEAKER_00]: And that when you see the car light on, that makes you really anxious. 18:45.425 --> 18:46.326 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a great example. 18:46.386 --> 18:48.067 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just do a couple more examples. 18:48.087 --> 18:51.691 [SPEAKER_02]: And let me just break that down because we're practicing all three skills there. 18:51.831 --> 18:53.973 [SPEAKER_02]: One, repair attempt. 18:54.533 --> 18:56.295 [SPEAKER_02]: Terracame to me, she said something. 18:56.375 --> 18:59.417 [SPEAKER_02]: My response to it clearly upset her. 18:59.658 --> 19:01.760 [SPEAKER_02]: I noticed it, I came back. 19:02.260 --> 19:05.763 [SPEAKER_02]: Then I used my circling back to my active listening skills. 19:06.444 --> 19:11.748 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, okay, she was saying that she was really concerned about the smell in our house. 19:12.429 --> 19:14.571 [SPEAKER_02]: Then I used validation. 19:14.551 --> 19:22.536 [SPEAKER_02]: here that you're really concerned about the house and you care about our kids and everybody's safety and it changed the game. 19:22.918 --> 19:27.733 [SPEAKER_02]: And it also speaks to the fact like I don't have to get it perfect all the time. 19:27.764 --> 19:31.749 [SPEAKER_00]: No, and he doesn't have to agree that it smells of there's black mold happening. 19:31.809 --> 19:43.165 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not like I was screaming and yelling at him because again validation you hold boundaries, but it's just saying, hey, instead of me going into my story now that that's crazy, I'm like, hey, I hear that this is really important to you. 19:43.185 --> 19:50.395 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's just do a couple of examples that we see often in our coaching sessions and or just from people we've worked with over the year. 19:50.935 --> 19:51.035 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 19:51.055 --> 19:52.978 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you just never listen to me, E.J. 19:53.110 --> 19:54.372 [SPEAKER_02]: Terry, you shouldn't feel that way. 19:54.412 --> 19:56.014 [SPEAKER_02]: I've really been working on this. 19:56.234 --> 19:59.739 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you gotta give me some credit for when I do get it, right? 19:59.859 --> 20:01.841 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you guys watch, what is it called? 20:01.901 --> 20:07.388 [SPEAKER_00]: The Family Feud, and a set big app, that is so bad, that feels awful. 20:07.709 --> 20:10.352 [SPEAKER_00]: Versus, Asia, I feel like you never listened to me. 20:10.793 --> 20:15.479 [SPEAKER_02]: I hear your Tara and I hear that you feel like I never really listened to you. 20:15.559 --> 20:16.280 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that accurate? 20:16.500 --> 20:18.763 [SPEAKER_00]: That is accurate, but you had hard eyes. 20:19.739 --> 20:21.062 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, it's got to find it. 20:21.082 --> 20:25.089 [SPEAKER_02]: We got to keep this because that is that's part of it. 20:25.190 --> 20:36.111 [SPEAKER_02]: The nonverbal does in there and there that like, and this is definitely where I struggle and other people in relationship is sometimes I will do the skill. 20:36.091 --> 20:52.000 [SPEAKER_02]: We have listeners who have comments about this, too, but there's more to it than me just saying the exact words I might have to like also take a second take a breath because I didn't realize I had hard eyes. 20:52.381 --> 20:52.902 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:53.843 --> 21:05.408 [SPEAKER_02]: We have a listener who takes a lot of opposition to the fact that I have to be so tuned into sort of my micro expressions. 21:05.929 --> 21:09.336 [SPEAKER_02]: He feels like it's like an unrealistic thing to ask. 21:09.356 --> 21:12.122 [SPEAKER_02]: Probably because he feels that himself, I would imagine. 21:12.102 --> 21:15.246 [SPEAKER_02]: in his relationship that he feels like he's scrutinized. 21:15.266 --> 21:17.890 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're supposed to tell each other what feels good. 21:17.910 --> 21:20.674 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you could have another relationship where hard days isn't a thing. 21:20.774 --> 21:24.419 [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, that's like a way I can see your defensiveness. 21:24.900 --> 21:25.461 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 21:25.481 --> 21:29.807 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was in and we were even just like having a, were you feeling defensive in that moment? 21:30.023 --> 21:33.808 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think sometimes you see my heart eyes. 21:33.848 --> 21:38.655 [SPEAKER_02]: It's when I'm really like working to try to get it right. 21:39.316 --> 21:45.725 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, because like a lot of times, we'll have moments like there was one in the kitchen and you can get a couple of experiences too. 21:45.745 --> 21:49.450 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, where you were like, okay, like, EJ, what did you hear me say? 21:49.430 --> 21:58.301 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'm like thinking back, and I'm trying to like, you know, I wanna get it right because I don't want the argument to continue and I want you to know that I care. 21:58.321 --> 22:03.909 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think I'm concentrating and you see it as like, I'm angry. 22:04.389 --> 22:04.710 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:04.770 --> 22:06.973 [SPEAKER_02]: It's that I'm just like, I wanna get it right. 22:06.993 --> 22:16.585 [SPEAKER_00]: We can clarify because this just reminds me, we have another couple who he literally, like he knows his partner is frustrated. 22:16.565 --> 22:23.937 [SPEAKER_00]: but he doesn't want to ask her or acknowledge that she is because he feels like he'll get it wrong. 22:24.659 --> 22:28.305 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, I'd rather get it wrong and know that like your feelings are important. 22:28.325 --> 22:30.649 [SPEAKER_00]: My feelings are important, then not try at all. 22:31.110 --> 22:35.076 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have to work on that when we do this act of listening and me validating. 22:35.437 --> 22:35.537 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:35.557 --> 22:38.522 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it sometimes like you'll be like, okay, what did I say? 22:38.502 --> 22:46.284 [SPEAKER_02]: And there might be an edge to it, and I'll be like, okay, you said, you know, that you feel unheard and unloved. 22:46.364 --> 22:49.192 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you be like, no, that's not what I said. 22:50.155 --> 22:53.524 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, and I need to be able to 22:53.504 --> 22:56.509 [SPEAKER_02]: breath through it and be like, okay, she's activated. 22:56.570 --> 22:58.453 [SPEAKER_02]: She's feeling some things. 22:59.254 --> 23:08.992 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I have to be okay that even if I really try to validate in this moment, I might not, I might not work. 23:09.152 --> 23:10.635 [SPEAKER_02]: And it might not work. 23:10.615 --> 23:13.238 [SPEAKER_02]: because I really wasn't active listening. 23:13.298 --> 23:17.482 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't hear, but it could also not work because terror is activated. 23:17.602 --> 23:17.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 23:18.003 --> 23:19.404 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not right. 23:19.424 --> 23:21.006 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's my own stuff to figure out. 23:21.026 --> 23:35.020 [SPEAKER_00]: But the whole idea is, and we won't keep dragging this out, is that if you just try to do it differently, there will be some misses, but validation before a solution is always going to work better, and it's going to keep you guys moving instead of stuck. 23:35.000 --> 23:42.387 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like that we're not entirely dragging it out because the reality is is like these moments are drug out. 23:42.407 --> 23:51.275 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we all know what it's like to be in that difficult moment, to be trying to communicate in a way that feels healthy. 23:51.375 --> 23:52.776 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's do a vice-versive one. 23:52.796 --> 23:53.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 23:53.557 --> 23:54.157 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 23:54.177 --> 24:00.483 [SPEAKER_00]: So do say something to me where like I would get like whether it's like a hug or a hug, I got one I could pull it right out of. 24:00.763 --> 24:03.105 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I'll say what I used to do and what I do now. 24:03.125 --> 24:03.366 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 24:03.546 --> 24:05.007 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that I do it. 24:04.987 --> 24:28.648 [SPEAKER_02]: This is this comes back to the dynamic that we were talking about before as far as like it's like having terrors attention is really important to me And so sometimes like I make direct bids to get her attention So I might come up to you in the morning and I might say hey Tara could you could you stop for a second and stop making the kids lunches and just come and could we talk in the other room just for a couple minutes Please 24:29.118 --> 24:32.534 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would be like absolutely not like I've way too much going on here. 24:32.574 --> 24:33.940 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand what you need for me. 24:33.980 --> 24:35.668 [SPEAKER_00]: All these other people need so much from me. 24:37.285 --> 24:38.607 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I would shut down. 24:38.947 --> 24:46.356 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I'd be like okay, and then I would feel awful Versus hey, I hear that you really need presence right now from me. 24:47.137 --> 24:55.887 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and it could be or another thing like if you're like telling me hey, I feel like you never give me attention And I could say instead of me being like are you kidding me? 24:55.907 --> 24:57.369 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see how much I have on my plate? 24:57.529 --> 24:59.952 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that feels like even more like absolutely 24:59.932 --> 25:02.678 [SPEAKER_00]: And then instead of like, hey, I hear that you really need attention. 25:02.999 --> 25:06.025 [SPEAKER_00]: It would it be cool if like, yeah, give me like five minutes. 25:06.045 --> 25:07.829 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get this and then then you've got me. 25:08.009 --> 25:12.599 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because he does, he thinks she doesn't skip the first step, right? 25:12.619 --> 25:15.906 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I say, hey, see, I kind of need your attention right now. 25:16.347 --> 25:17.670 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's just like, 25:17.650 --> 25:18.491 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you kidding me? 25:18.531 --> 25:21.436 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the kids need my attention, the dogs need my attention. 25:21.476 --> 25:27.104 [SPEAKER_02]: I got to feed the neighbor cat, like, you know, then I'm like, okay, well, I'm below everybody. 25:27.665 --> 25:30.890 [SPEAKER_02]: But if she says, EJ, I hear you need my attention. 25:30.950 --> 25:34.736 [SPEAKER_02]: I just gonna do one more thing and then we can meet up in the bedroom. 25:35.156 --> 25:37.960 [SPEAKER_02]: She's addressed that I have a need, she's validated it. 25:38.361 --> 25:42.707 [SPEAKER_02]: And then she's even said, like, you know, hey, just wait a minute and I'll give it to you. 25:43.028 --> 25:47.134 [SPEAKER_02]: But she did it in a way that's like totally herable. 25:47.114 --> 25:59.812 [SPEAKER_00]: So, well, I mean, I really hope that you, from like just listening today's podcast, you heard about why active listening and validation and repair attempts are so important. 25:59.852 --> 26:05.600 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes both of us feel really important that all feelings are okay, even if we don't agree upon them. 26:05.660 --> 26:14.893 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, validation is not about agreement and you can still have boundaries, but it is saying your emotional experience is important and I want to know more. 26:14.873 --> 26:19.862 [SPEAKER_00]: and it's just skillful and you'll have many missed moments where you can come and repair them. 26:20.443 --> 26:31.402 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have any questions or like, oh my gosh, like we have this one dynamic that keeps happening and I don't know how to validate that reach out to us email us at podcast or relationship or innovation.com. 26:31.883 --> 26:37.152 [SPEAKER_00]: We will help you find the restructuring that could feel good so that you have a better outcome that feels better for both of you. 26:37.132 --> 26:37.473 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 26:37.493 --> 26:40.638 [SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully what you heard also is that it's hard. 26:40.918 --> 26:42.741 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, these things you're not coming easy. 26:42.761 --> 26:42.861 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 26:43.101 --> 26:48.910 [SPEAKER_02]: As we were doing this today, we were like, clunky, tripping over and trying to like, well, what would I say in that moment? 26:49.411 --> 26:52.216 [SPEAKER_02]: Or what would be the obstacle that I'm up against? 26:52.236 --> 27:00.709 [SPEAKER_02]: And the more you can engage with your partner around the fact that this is like normal that defensiveness, that the lack of hearing, that being distracted. 27:00.689 --> 27:06.177 [SPEAKER_02]: those all are normal, but they're also workable when you guys are doing it together. 27:06.297 --> 27:15.471 [SPEAKER_02]: And so another reason to join, it's in our show notes, join our Patreon community, relationship renovation, podcast. 27:15.952 --> 27:20.499 [SPEAKER_02]: It is just an excellent way for us to all be in this together, because that's our point. 27:20.819 --> 27:22.161 [SPEAKER_02]: We're in this with you. 27:22.221 --> 27:23.423 [SPEAKER_00]: Relationship renovators. 27:23.403 --> 27:25.006 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're here helping you do it. 27:25.066 --> 27:31.135 [SPEAKER_02]: We're doing it ourselves, join us in this journey of having the secure, loving relationship. 27:31.496 --> 27:32.317 [SPEAKER_02]: We all want to have. 27:32.357 --> 27:37.145 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that relationship innovation at home is now available on Amazon. 27:37.185 --> 27:38.868 [SPEAKER_00]: You have six reviews already. 27:38.908 --> 27:39.589 [SPEAKER_00]: It's exciting. 27:40.210 --> 27:40.951 [SPEAKER_00]: You always show notes. 27:41.251 --> 27:44.196 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we always ask those of your, 27:44.176 --> 28:01.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Reviews in our podcast or if you have gone through our model on Google, it just helps others and if you find this podcast helpful for a friend or a family member, obviously share it and again, just thanks for listening and work on those active listening validation skills super important. 28:01.958 --> 28:03.520 [SPEAKER_00]: As always, take care of yourself. 28:03.660 --> 28:04.481 [SPEAKER_00]: Take care of each other. 28:04.741 --> 28:05.442 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye. 28:08.341 --> 28:16.512 [SPEAKER_01]: Singin' on the train, me and you listening to the rain Me and you, we are the same, me and you