[SPEAKER_02]: Hey Tommy, you did something fun today.
[SPEAKER_02]: You drove the Viper into the office when it's like 30 degrees out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep in mind, we've got the first gen Viper, which has no doors and no roof for the most part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so what we have to bring it in, because we've got our detailer coming tomorrow to detail it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just snowed yesterday, luckily most of it has melted.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let me tell you what, that is not a cold weather car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, tell me what is it like to drive it, you know, it's freezing because we did get the the optional movie body.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got the optional roof and the optional hard windows.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you didn't at least to have to have the zipping kind, but you had the kind of gold because it doesn't have any windows, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It just has, well, no roof and no windows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so I'm not sure if they were after market or if they were standard I think you were standard because the holes for the windows are in the doors Yeah, but I know that like vipers came with from the factory these fabric and like Clear plastic windows.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a bit that you zip it right and then they had like a fabric top as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: R's has a body-colored hardtop.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the windows though are- But those slots are there for reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: The slots are for the fabric windows that came with the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they really?
[SPEAKER_00]: But the glass windows we have, I think, are aftermarket.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I think that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's no way to get into the car with the glass windows.
[SPEAKER_02]: what you can pop if you don't have the key yes but that because there's no door handle that key poppers aftermarket yeah I see what you're saying so if you if you have those glass windows and you don't have the key poppers you can put it in the top of the pops of door yeah because there's no outside door hands well I mean okay well hold on here so the uh it's the hard top room is that factory or is that aftermarket I don't know because that's a three piece unit yes
[SPEAKER_02]: And it looks a little homemade, but it's three pieces that you put together like a puzzle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Left-right center section.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it clips into the front of the roof, but the back of the roof doesn't hold in place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no clips.
[SPEAKER_02]: So potentially, if you wanted to, you could lift the back of the roof up and like,
[SPEAKER_02]: If you ended up in the door, you could put a cold hanger in there and, you know, pull a full on door handle.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wouldn't be hard to get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying with that roof.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as crude as the Viper was, I don't think it's crude enough to need to door a cold hanger to open the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so I had to find the glass windows because it weren't on the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: There would be, there would be behind the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I found them eventually.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem is if you have the glass windows in and you don't have the key on you, you can't get into the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to be so diligent to make sure that you always have the key fob on you to pop the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to be using the Co-Hanger approach?
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, even with the roof on and the glass windows in, there's about an inch gap between the window and the roof at the back of the window.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a little bit of that freezing air comes flying in, is that what you're saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you drive along, the actual latches for the roofs, they start to come undone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so they start to lose it now, so it's going down the highway and I'm like, why is this rooflapping around?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I look up and I'm like, oh my god, the roof's coming off.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what does that middle latch do that hold it in place?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but hopefully.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's like a hook that goes on to the top of the April.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the comedic way this roof is attached is like it's held on by hoax and dreams and for a 400 horsepower car capable of 160 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they've speed tested there.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they definitely did not.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the bigger issue with the car and I think how you know this car was not intended for cold weather is that, you know, I got in, I started it up, I let it warm up a little bit and then I got right on the highway and the temperature came right back down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it went up to like 140 as I let it warm up and then as soon as I got on my way, the little needle just dumped back down to 100 right to the bottom of the gauge and the heat didn't do much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the problem with the Viper first gen of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a good stop and go car in terms of traffic.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't ever heat, it just gets hot.
[SPEAKER_02]: It gets hot and I mean the band
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's somewhere in between there which makes the car interesting because it can get very hot If you're in stop and go traffic in the summer and apparently it can get very cold Yeah, if you're driving it when it's freezing, but the idea I think Tommy was at the side pipes You'd up to cabin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or no, it's not do anything That was not work.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could you could reach out and kind of put your hand on these fingers up on the side pipes
[SPEAKER_00]: It does look cool though when it's cold out when you start it up because it looks like a dragon because there's these puffs of condensation of both sides since alternating puffs is cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it was it's just every day every time I drive that car I can't believe how fun it is and I can't believe how someone in a major corporation green lit that project.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bob loves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was Bob thinking, I mean, it really does feel like a science project, the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bob was thinking that he wanted to make, uh, a Shelby, a new co-brand, and from the factory.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, listen, he nailed it, right, that raw on-hitchie experience, but, I mean, the reality is, especially when the hard top is on, that would be a hard car to road trip, because it's so booming in that cabin.
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah i mean it's it's definitely a weekend car i think it's also a car that uh is misunderstood and undervalued let me let me talk about both those so first misunderstood uh it was known as a widow maker right that's every but when you say you got a viper everything's a widow maker and they think you're gonna burn your legs off on them side pipes and you're gonna go creating into the nearest tree whenever you go around a corner and it's not really that bad especially uh today when you know electric cars have a thousand horsepower 400 seems kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so if you if you drive it, it's still pretty fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm not saying it's not fast I'm saying if you drive it with a little bit of respect sure in other words You don't you know you don't like floor come around a corner like that, you know coming out of the typical cars and coffee Then chances are it'll not Create a widow It'll actually be pretty tame.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the reason it's known as a widow maker is because it doesn't have any stability control traction control any of that
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think the big problem too is the ABS.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tires are really expensive and hard to find.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they need to warm them up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that the tire on that Viper, the rear is like a 335 or 325.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's massive.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem is because they're expensive and because these cars don't get driven a lot, they spend most of their life sitting and they don't get new tires put on them regularly.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't get drive-out in the heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a bad combination of
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, decent amount of torque, combined with dry rod at tires, and no stability control traction control.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't think Michelin for those tires.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, ours are new because of Michelin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, thank you, Michelin.
[SPEAKER_02]: We really appreciate the fact that you're sitting there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they're the only ones that make the tires for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the problem is like, especially on ours, we went back to the original three-spoke wheels, which are like a 17-inch wheel, and like I said a 325 or a 335 width.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: That car's running on pilot sport twos, which was the newest tire Michelin had in that side.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's an antique.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and yeah, I think once they're out of those tires, they're out of those tires, because they're not, as far as I know, they're not building sport twos anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like, who's your you can buy and there's that pilot pilot sport twos, if you want the original tire size?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I think that's why when we got the car, it came with the second gen wheels.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure, 18, but those tires were 18 years old.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a recipe for hitting the nearest tree when you go on the corner.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a bad combination.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plus I think like you said they're pretty tame if you don't treat him badly and they're they actually do handle really well, but the limit handling is very sketchy and a diaper.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there they don't progressively let go as I understand it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've no interest in finding out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of people I crash them on a on a back road,
[SPEAKER_00]: they'll hit the limit and then right as it goes over, it snaps at you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I heard what happens is you correct and then it overcorrects basically so the back end starts to come around so then you steer into it and then it swings the other way and it's when it swings the other way as it goes completely around.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I want to find that out, but I'm not scared of the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the car is underappreciated because they started out
[SPEAKER_02]: They said, let's set out to build and actually an exotic car.
[SPEAKER_02]: So at that time, people, there's a myth, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The myth is that it's got a truck engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, the Viper engine, the Tesla owner became a truck engine, but at that time, Chrysler owned Lamborghini and they didn't have any experience in building aluminum.
[SPEAKER_02]: powered VA, it's her V10.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they went to Lamborghini, which was building a aluminum 12 cylinder at the time, and said, hey, can you build us as very advanced tents in the linder aluminum power train with dual overhead cams, you know, no push rods, and, of course, being Christ or half way, they ran out of money, and so they just basically created aluminum tents under a traditional engine with push rods, nothing exotic and the thing, and in the longer on that, and
[SPEAKER_02]: has made it incredibly reliable so because it doesn't have all the exotic tech that engine is pretty much bulletproof and then eventually they took a steel version of that and stuck it in a truck so a design by Lamborghini halfway through a rare out of money put it in the vipers and aluminum engine and then needed a descent cylinder for their truck so they took that engine design made it steel instead of aluminum and put it in the truck and that's how that myth got started that it's a truck engine although they're not exactly the same
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the truck engine is not, well, yeah, it's not exactly a vibrant engine unless you're in the SRT, unless you're in the SRT, that is a vibrant engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the truck engine is a very agricultural and comparison heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: iron block.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it didn't use a, it also sounds kind of funny because you're only hearing half the cylinders, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're only hearing the side that you're sitting on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they didn't do a cross pie play, get this like very trucky like sound to it, which is actually kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they're underappreciated because the first gen ones, the ones that are, you know, especially the one, the one that we have before they did the GT
[SPEAKER_02]: What was it that one with the exhaust content?
[SPEAKER_02]: TTS.
[SPEAKER_02]: TTS, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Which became a little bit more tame.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which got windows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which became a little bit more, I should say.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I wouldn't say that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean the GTS is just a hard top.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it had like windows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, ours doesn't have windows.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it became more usable.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why ours, well, we bought ours for $40,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're still around that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I think it's an undervalued muscle car experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: ultimate analog experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know of any other except for maybe Cobra but a Cobra's kind of weird because most of them are in real of course most of them are kid cars of some sort.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean to degrade a Cobra by saying it's a kid car but there's only like 400 original Cobra's whereas you can actually get an original Viper.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to go to factory five or super-formers or any of the other ones, you know, that build them under license, you can actually go get a real Viper for 40,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems like a hell of a deal, and it's probably the most authentic car experience in the car world in some ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really raw, unhingy experience, but I think it's also important to keep in mind like that is very, very fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to ask yourself like, is that really the experience I want?
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, like I love driving that car, but I know my wife would hate riding in that car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you would hate driving it, you know, as an everyday car to work.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just not comfortable or warm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, it's, I mean, it's, yeah, it would be like a really good third or fourth car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a good way of putting, it's probably a good, I'm going to go a fourth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not even sure it's a good third car, it's a good fourth car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's exactly right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, on that beautiful day when the weather is great and you're feeling a little first ski, this is a car to take out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I wanted to talk about something, I had a great conversation with my buddy David Tracy at the Atopian.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what should the Jeep do for the next generation?
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we get to that time, let's say that for one more thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I just want to talk about one, I had a unique thought today.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't have those too often, so I thought I'd share it with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know how generation, the big, the, what's, what's the oldest generation, baby boomers?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know how baby boomers really drove up the market for muscle cars?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the Viper is the ultimate expression of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm talking about like chargers, challengers, moustangs.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you can argue it's a pony car, but you know what I'm talking about, cobras, all that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, co, co, cood, coodism.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm having a hard time today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, um, those guys are now aging out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the new muscle car for baby for generation X, which is the next generation, is a portion 911.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you saw what happened with the muscle cars happening now with 911s, where they've just incredibly shot up in price.
[SPEAKER_02]: People are crazy into those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a whole sub-culture that's built around all the different generations.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so,
[SPEAKER_02]: For Gen X, the new muscle car is the 9-11 Porsche in general, but specifically the 9-11.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's got this long rich history of having different models, you know, you've got everything from the street versions to the track versions to the track versions for the street.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just a lot there, and that has really captured the hearts and minds and souls of Gen X, and those guys are all into 9-11's now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's why 9-11's are so great, almost ungetable at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you think it's also, it's the car you wanted when you were younger, but couldn't afford it, and I couldn't afford it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for the, for the, for the boomer generation that was born in the 40s, and then grew up in the 60s, in 2008, that was the era of cars they wanted.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the 60s, 70s, muscle cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, those people are dying out now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So your generation, who were born in the 60s, grew up in the 80s, you want the cars that you couldn't afford in the 80s, which have been 9, 11s, and Kundeche, isn't that kind of thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I think, I think the 9, 11 turbo
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was one of the poster cards back in the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so I'm not sure the funny thing about the Lamborghinis, that's skip the generation.
[SPEAKER_02]: For some reason, the people who want the Lamborghinis of that same era is like the 9-11 Turbo are a generation under.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the generation under generation?
[SPEAKER_02]: Millenials?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean you look you look you look good like Doug right.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's gone one.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not he's not a baby He's not a baby when we're he's not Gen X.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a millennial and for some reason that generation is into Lamborghinis I don't get it because for me I was around when the Lamborghini Quintash was around and all Lamborghinis of that generation were kind of douchey
[SPEAKER_02]: And so to me it represents a car that certainly says a lot about you and things that it says about you at least for my generation are not good It was like you're into money.
[SPEAKER_02]: You care more about looks than about performance because Lamborghini's especially quintages these things were not good handling cars They were not track cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were all about like peacocking
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very little to do with the authenticity of actually going out and having a car that performs as well on the street as it does on the track.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Lamborghini's were always poster vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe that is changing now because people have caught onto that generational Lamborghini's and are buying them for different reasons, but to me every time I see somebody Lamborghini, I just think that guy's a douche.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm okay, I'm not saying they are, I'm just saying that is what that's a stereotype
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that the 9-11 thing goes more than just, because it's not just Gen X that wants 9-11's.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's just the Idcar, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, every generation I see online, Gen X millennials, Gen Z even, Generation Alpha, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, everybody's obsessed with the 9-11.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that that's the car that the cool people in society have gone out and bought, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the car that's in the zeitgeist right now, so that that's really the hot thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, maybe that will be sustainable, maybe it won't be, but I think it goes beyond just like this is what I had on my poster as a kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just the car at the moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, the new 9-11 since I started kind of getting into him recently has gone up like 40,000 for a base 9-11.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I started looking at 9-11s, you could still, like I was like, hey, maybe I could afford one.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could buy a base one with none of the, you know, trimmings for like 99,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I think the cheapest 9-11 career is like 138,000 or more.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, to see a 40% increase in four years is just crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder how long that will be sustainable and how long before the prices come crashing down.
[SPEAKER_02]: With the muscle cars, they've already started coming down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, the generation that is into those things is aging out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so those values have come down.
[SPEAKER_02]: How long, you think there's more room to run in the 9-11?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or do you think that it's going to start crashing as well?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think...
[SPEAKER_00]: Looking at some of the data recently, a lot of the pre-war stuff, unless it's like the do's and burrs of the world, really doesn't have any value.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like that world of people that collect in Model A's, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Those people have come gone and unfortunately largely died out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Except for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Except for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually, there is this interesting kind of subculture of people who are in their early 20s, really getting into, like, Model T's and A's.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're kind of this interesting subculture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with the stuff in the 30s and the 40s.
[SPEAKER_00]: The stuff that's really tanked right now is, those girls, I think, have a certain amount of interest because they're a little chitty, chitty bang bangets.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just fundamentally very, very different than anything on the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: The 50 stuff I was reading is really struggling right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think even the tri-five Chevy's, the stuff that was,
[SPEAKER_02]: that stuff is coming down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be like the silent generation before the baby boomers.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was kind of their era, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: To some extent, the baby boomers as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But those cars are really, really struggling with the exception of like three models are still pretty strong.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like 50, 55, 6, 7 Chevy, so the tri-5 Chevy's.
[SPEAKER_00]: 59 Cadillacs, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Still pretty strong, but even the prices on those are on the way down.
[SPEAKER_00]: 60s muscle cars are interesting because I think that fundamentally even though that generation is also on its way out, there's something just fundamentally interesting about a 68 charger.
[SPEAKER_00]: 68 chargers always going to have a certain amount of collectability because of the design and because of kind of the aura around it.
[SPEAKER_00]: cases shopping for 68 chargers casually because he loves them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like a bad 68 chargers a 35 hell.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's funny, you know, some of these Porsche podcast now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for the longest time right, the Holy Grail of any muscle car was, was it matching numbers?
[SPEAKER_02]: In other words, was it born with the engine and the transmission and was it original?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And nobody in the Porsche world cared about that and now I'm starting to hear those saying I know terms throwing about in the Porsche world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it matching numbers?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh my god It's just you know and it's even gotten worse to some extent because I always you know like with like with with a Mustang Right, it was always a mighty report.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does it have everything that the car came with and now with the Porsche world?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all about is it a paint the sample cars at a one of one doesn't have you know
[SPEAKER_02]: doesn't have like carbon fiber code hooks, you know, stuff that's just so far from what that car is about and yet people long and lust for that because it makes the car unique and special because let's face it, they built a lot of 9-11s over the last 50 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see this?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: The haggardy bull market list, you know what that is?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I saw it for this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never agree with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always think the trick about the bull market list is I wish they would go back in time when they first started doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And actually see how right they work.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what do they find out?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're almost always right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have a really, really good track record of.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the cool thing is they'll admit if a car doesn't hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, one and every 10, they'll be like, all right, this didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: But basically, Hagrid is an insurance company for some foremost.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they have... Well, they never know, media companies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And an auction company.
[SPEAKER_00]: But first and foremost, I think it's fair to say, they're still an insurance company.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the service they provide.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they look at their insurance data and they look at the sales numbers and then they come out with this list, 2026, for example, bull market list.
[SPEAKER_00]: They based on the data predict you can safely buy without losing money on or our gaining value And then if you look at the cars on this list, it's an interesting mix of stuff It's unfortunately cases cars on this list 68 you have any Dodge Chargers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you agree with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that's a hot car?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so, I think that's the reason the Viper is also going to come up in value because people are longing for something that's real, in other words, analog.
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a sweet spot in analog, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem with like 60s or maybe even 50s and 40s cars is when it becomes a pain in the ass to drive, then it becomes less fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you need a car that you can like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Still get into and start and then take it for a drive without having to adjust a carburetor or having to, you know, finingle the brakes or having to, you know, have having to like charge up the battery because it, it's got some kind of a slow leak on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you need the car that's reliable enough to be drivable even if it's been sitting a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's when you start getting into like the really weird stuff that I think people kind of tap out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And scroll down a little.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's look at some of these others.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if we agree with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second one's a little bit interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: N-B-Me-A-D-S.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a generation of me out of the typically people dislike a lot because it was bigger and fatter than the NA.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although it's still small in the N-C.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a hot take on me out of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: What you got?
[SPEAKER_02]: And keep in mind, this is extremely biased because I never, I don't fit in any meata.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a really tall torso, and so while I can't sit in the thing, the problem is that I inevitably end up looking into the top of the pillar, so I can, you know, if I want to drive it, I got to kind of scooch down, it's very uncomfortable, so I don't have like this, you know, meata's the answer, because for me, the car has never worked.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just find them to be extremely boring if I'm being honest.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I just think that I get where they came from, I get that they became
[SPEAKER_02]: The reliable British sports car that the British never built, I understand that they're super easy to maintain, that they're cheap, that you can track them, I get all that, and I think all of that makes them boring.
[SPEAKER_00]: I disagree, I mean that's the pinnacle.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is the pinnacle sports car.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reason I think it's boring is because they're all underpowered, especially today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's more fun to like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't more fun to drive a slow fast car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and get a BRZ.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, me and I was more fun to talk about, okay, sorry, 86.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the Subaru hates us.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that you can say too is a smaller the car, the more fun it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what me and I was supposed to be good at, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I just stay very confident.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I feel like I'm a guy in a suit or a pair of pants, one size, two small.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I said that's from my perspective.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I always feel like, you know, you know, you go suit shopping and you,
[SPEAKER_02]: buy a suit that you look good in and you feel good about it and then you wear it and then all the sudden you're like Jesus Christ I can't wait to get out of this thing because you bought it for looks and not necessarily for fit and that's the problem I have with the meata I always feel like I'm crouched and there's somebody next to me and it's actually worse in the latest generation if you're in the passenger seat because of transmission tunnel kind of comes into your foot into your leg space and so as a passenger it's actually worse than as a driver.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you get two people in the thing, especially two large people, like a lot of my friends are right, we're big, like my friend James, it's just not a fun experience, and then keep in mind that I'm also heavy, so a car that has, you know, questionable power to begin with, and you add 225 pounds to it, or me and James, you add 500 pounds to it, then the thing just becomes sluggish and not a lot of fun, and I understand people love the things, I'm just saying for me, they're just kind of, eh.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, next one on the list.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a car that also breaks my 50s exception, but this is a breaker that really I think because it's just so gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the Continental Mark II.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, a friend who had one of these, a bunch of years ago, you know, a scroll down coal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what makes these special is it's just objectively, I think, one of the best-looking cars maybe of all time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just an incredible piece of design.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was the, I believe the Marilyn Monroe era of Continental.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at that, isn't that cool?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you know, you know, your grandpa left me in Mark 5.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm always going to go for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: For personally, this is just me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, but that's a much better design than I was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but yeah, but to me, it means nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a very beautiful old car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas the Mark 5 means something to me was, you know, it was the car that when your grandfather became successful, he bought.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it always has sentimental value.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though it's a much worse car.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I'm buying a continental, my heart's always going to go for a Mark 5.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's just me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sure, but that's a much cooler car.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one is also an interesting one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a truck, the 454 SS, GMT 400s.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no connection to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, these are cool though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big block, short cab, short bed, rear wheel drive, sport truck, one of the original ones.
[SPEAKER_02]: This feels like one of those cars or trucks in this case.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you know, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure, you know what I mean and I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, scroll down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could go and cold.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: This next one I think is also really, really, really on the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the case's dreamcars as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh six, two, thirteen Corbets, zero six.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the seven leader manual transmission naturally aspirated.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're talking about kind of that authentic experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is about as raw as it gets with that massive LS6, LS7.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have this generation of Corbets.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we didn't have this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but the interior lets it down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's this every Corvette from C4 to C6.
[SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of which, you know how Ford just came out with the Dark Horse SE.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's been a lot of talk that it should have been a Shelby.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because obviously there's a long heritage of building brands with Shelby, but in the long run Shelby owns Shelby, and I don't think that Ford wanted to spend the money for another Shelby.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they came out with the dark horse SC.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was thinking about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now Ford has of course the Mustang, the GT, which is the big coyote V8 one, then they have the dark horse, which is like what 80, 70, 80,000 and now the supercharged at the SC, which is going to be at least 100,000 and then of course they have the GTD.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is a $400,000 special edition.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought to myself, I think Ford would be better, and this is me, because we own that GT, the thing that really lets it down in my mind is the interior.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just feels really cheap and really plasticy, and having spent a lot of time driving a lot of different cars,
[SPEAKER_02]: As much as I love the engine in that car and as much as I love the design because the design is absolutely stunning once you get in it It just it's just let it's a huge let down In terms of the field of materials in terms of the field of the switch gear in terms of the mouse fur just everything about it feels basement cheap and I think Ford would do better
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they would bring a lot more life into the Mustang lineup, if instead of building a supercharged SC version, they spend so money and increased the money they spent on the interior and made the interior special, so that the inside of the car feels as special as the outside.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just a free tips you Ford, maybe they're thinking themselves that that would increase the price of the GT from like 45 to 60,000, which is possible, and then it would take it out of that affordable muscle car range, but
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That train left the station when they started building a $400,000 GTD.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's hard to be like, hey, we want to build an affordable car.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then at the same time, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars developing, you know, a one-off, you know, limited edition GTD that very few people that let's say the typical Mustang buyer could never afford.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the great news is you can still buy that cheaper Mustang.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's not like they're only building GTDs, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can still get a $40,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but to me, if you want to inject black, and I love the Mustang and Celeste of the Pony cars, muscle car standing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you want to get me back into it, make the interior feel as special as the exterior.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is another instance where you've got like 80% of the way they are, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got great suspension, you've got great exterior styling, you've got incredible power, and then you get in the thing and you're like, holy cow, what the hell happened here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I kind of feel like if you're complaining about the interior, you don't get the point of a ZO6.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: This car is not at all about the interior.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about interacting with the seven-liter V8.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, V8.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough, but what you're saying is the people are buying this for the performance, and my question to you would be, how many people are actually taking on the track?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're really serious about that, not caring about the interior, then this is a track car, but I would wager that 90% of people who buy this will never see a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: for sure, but you want to feel that car driving a work, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to feel that big 7-liter V8 accelerating off of a stoplight.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that the interior really matters in a ZL6.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to bring up a whole bunch of more expensive cars, but have you been in, let's say, a 911, a GT3, where the interior is just as nice and it's a track-focused car.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you could make it functional and you could make it, you know, a track-eat
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I understand that, but it's just something so cool and American about everybody puts down the Corvette.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a real sports car.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's not a real super car.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you show up at a stop light with seven liters.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can talk about the quality of your interior as you get blasted with LS7 exhaust out the back as it goes past you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is an interesting point you bring up Tommy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not trying to take the European point of view where the latest Corvette to me is as good
[SPEAKER_02]: if not better than any world car.
[SPEAKER_02]: For $200,000 with the Z, are one, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And ZR1X, you can get like revvaltow performance at a quarter of the cost.
[SPEAKER_02]: The revvaltows are going to cost you $800,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, for sure, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas ZR1X is going to be like $230,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the interior is just as good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not talking about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just,
[SPEAKER_02]: feel that we've gone beyond that moment where like cheap cars had to have cheap and tears.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think now maybe you can actually make, and I think Nissan does a good job with this, and so does Hyundai and Kia, where they can make an affordable car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about the Palisade and the Telly ride, and yet,
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember when I drove the, it was a palacade.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just got out of a BMW X7 and I sat in the palacade and I thought there's, this is as good as anything in that X7 for half the price.
[SPEAKER_02]: X7 MS. Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't do them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, X7, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the quality and the workmanship and the kind of attention detail it was just as good in that Palisade slash telly ride as it was, you know, in the BMW.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think you can bring a world class interior to a car, like they've done with the latest Corvette, without necessarily jacking up the price to Lamborghini numbers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I agree with you on the first generation tired for sure, and the second generation tolerated in Palestine is even nicer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a beautiful interior, but have you seen the prices on them?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like 60, no, aren't they?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're like 65.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but like, because of the interior, is that because everything is gone up?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but my point is like, I feel like that car's also moving up market in price.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm not sure if it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the inflation has gotten, you know, since COVID, everything is just, like I said, that Porsche is up 40% in four years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and if you look at like the cheapest car you can buy now, by the way, is over $20,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a, I think it's the Hyundai venue.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the base model venue has a pretty bad interior.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yeah, well, but you're also at the bottom of the barrel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I'm just saying, like it's not fair to say that all interior door got in really nice, like base model venue is still kind of an account of box.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so I mean, yeah, but you're like the $20,000 price.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I just think like especially there's cars that you want a nice interior if you're paying for an item 11.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you're paying for an estimator, yeah, but I think kind of what made the Corvette cool is like they didn't care about that stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They wanted to make the fastest best handling car they could
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and yeah, they put they put carpet on the doors, but and I I could play in about it constantly when it was new for sure, but especially in the use market I'm like that's kind of cool right like they they went against the Europeans and they say you know what we're going to do it our way So I'm talking about the the the the 06
[SPEAKER_02]: We just bought one and love that car because it's my favorite color.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called mist red.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a kind of a candy apple red.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just my favorite color.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the flat plain crank engine certainly makes it much more European in its character.
[SPEAKER_02]: So instead of being kind of that low-be, Harley Davidson traditional V8.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's much more like a Ferrari based, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: where it's a screamer instead of a grower.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's call it that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm a little torn about that because when you drive it, it's much more high-strong.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's much more like a formula one car than like a traditional American car.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for the longest time, Corvettes have always been, you know, front engine, traditional American B.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: push rod.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just kind of had this really kind of like chill and very,
[SPEAKER_02]: Very easy going attitude and now when you put that flat playing crank engine into it It becomes something that's much more high-strong much different and I'm kind of torn between the two I'm not saying it's better or worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying it's different, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that different.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so It's just something I think
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially the typical Corvette buyer, which is somebody of my age, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It probably should be aware that once you go up from the 06 to the 01, which is the same engine with twin turbos or the 01x, which is the same engine with twin turbos plus electric power, then you're definitely changing the nature of the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess the question, you know, we've all in the base car, you should take base, but you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: We now have the Z06.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've driven the the the E-Ray.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_02]: We haven't driven the Z-R1 or Z-R1X.
[SPEAKER_02]: What would be like, I know which one's going to have the most value, because it's always going to be the one with 1214 or horsepower.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: But which one is kind of the like the the the the purest, the if you know no car of those.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I still think that I
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's going to be the zero six right because that's kind of the the track.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, of the lineup, I think that that's the car most most people would say is is the best Corvette.
[SPEAKER_00]: Currently for sale, I think the the best car you can buy in the lineup is is actually still the basting ring.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that as as an incredible as the performance is on that zero six, it's just it's
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so extreme that to get the most out of it, you either need a track, or you have to really break some incredible laws on back roads, and then driving that thing around every day, like it's amazing, but it's also very harsh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I'm a 95 year old man, and I haven't spent enough time in the ZL6, so maybe I should take it for a weekend and see what it's actually like.
[SPEAKER_02]: So should we just announced last week when Andre was at the auto show numbers on that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sierra 1X.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, third fastest production car you could buy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: after two electric cars actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: So zero to 60 on a prep surface in 1.68 seconds.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's because of course you've got four wheel drive and you know who knows what the top end is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be over 200 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: But maybe I'm old school but I kind of feel like five to 600 horsepower is a magic number.
[SPEAKER_02]: for car that is balanced and kind of usable both on track and on street because like you said once you get to 1200 horsepower it just becomes I don't know and of course in America there's no such thing as too much right there's no bazooka that's too big there's no gun that's too powerful there's you know but
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there maybe we've gone too far and maybe the sweet spot in the core of it line up is a zero six if you can Get past a point that it's very European and it's character it's very Ferrari like an it's character versus Very stiff very stiff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that most people would 100% agree that the zero six is is that best
[SPEAKER_02]: And we got ours at a discount because everybody who, so the zeosix came out like three years ago and everybody who wanted one bought one and now all the guys, girls want the zear one and so the zeosix are kind of languishing on dealer lots and ours was 138 and I think that you could pick one up today new probably for 120, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so maybe if you want the best experience and if you can live without having the biggest
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of the sweet spot and you can get it at a bargain right now, so I would say get yourself a 0-6 And when you show up at cars in coffee next to a ZR1, don't feel bad You're the one who's not going to dip into tree on the way home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean the problem with the ZR1 is like It's an amazing achievement of engineering the fact that they're going one what was here 6 is 1.67 or something on the quarter mile 160 miles an hour, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Electricars have democratized performance to such an extent now that I don't think it's enough just to build a really fast car I think what but people are really looking for as an experience because if you want a really fast car I'm gonna plant now for like 35.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'd like 50 45 to 50 you can I've seen it for 35, but still anyway under 50 a lot of miles But you can get a first-gen plan for in the 30, but that's my point is like you can buy a plan for under $50,000 Yes, which is that
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a model as planned, I should say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Less than half the price of any of the cards we're talking about here, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not enough just to want to go fast, because if you want to go fast, you just do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think what Chevrolet really needs to prioritize now is going to be that analog experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really hoping, and it's going to be a stretch, but the new grand sport that's kind of been teased a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the thing that's going to have a five point, what seven liter, it's going to have a new V. Well, I think it's going to the next gen, small block, potentially.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's five point seven, I think you're saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a five point three is a current one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the Corvette's always six leaders.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you'll probably be six leaders or six point two.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forget what I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you cool that?
[SPEAKER_02]: I see what they're saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: The new grand sport is going to be, is it going to be the same engine that I'm going to put in the Silverado?
[SPEAKER_02]: It must be right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It must be based on that same architecture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're all kind of related, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Six point two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the current C7 and C8, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And the rumor for the truck is a 5.7 from 5.3 for the base engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they're saying 6.7.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, 6.7.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have to buy one liter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I'd really love to see is that 6.7, 6-gen small block, made it to a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that's the only Corvette has done such a good job of hitting all the bases.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got the touring cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got the track cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got the speed weapon, but they don't have that analog driving experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that 6.7, I think, with a stick would be the ultimate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Having said that, I mean, when we had that C6, and first of all, I don't like the C7 manual because it's weird once again, this is just me, so I'll take it with the grain of salt, but having that seventh gear just hanging out there and never being used just bugs to heck out of me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And same thing at the Porsche, I don't like the 991 with 7 speed or the 991.
[SPEAKER_02]: These are 992 with a 7 speed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I don't like 7 speeds, it's just silly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and then the problem when we had the C6 with a 6 speed, it was just not a very satisfying transmission.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a good 60.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I thought it was heavy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was a clutch was heavy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you just felt heavy and it just felt like cumbersome.
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't feel lively and didn't feel like flickable.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the reason you didn't like the cars because it left a stranded.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that left a stranded left you at least.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you were with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was just both.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that left.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's been like 4K to fix it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that car left a bad taste in your mouth.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just didn't feel like if you want an excellent transmission, now I'm going to go the other way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Get him me out of.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's a flickable transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not saying it's a Miata transmission, but it's still pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think C6, I mean, our C6 Corvette was the bottom of the barrel.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an LS2 manual transmission based car from 2000, and I think it was like a 6, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: If you had driven a 12 grand sport with the manual, you would like that car like that car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you just bought a 997, the first year of it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you driven that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you think of the manual?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like that manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's a little sloppy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that You know, it's gonna be sloppy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Define sloppy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just doesn't have like a status flying chunk as you go into the gears And you think that manual is worse than the C6 manual?
[SPEAKER_00]: That particular one is worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my opinion Yeah, I thought that the C6 gave me more feedback.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think I would go with the exact opposite way I think the C6 was just big and heavy and cumbersome
[SPEAKER_02]: and after like half hour you needed a leg workout to work the clutch whereas I'm not saying it's a best manual in that 997 it's not you know it's not perfect it also has 100,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah maybe we may be far from what it originally was but in general it's a pretty easy car to drive with that manual and it's pretty satisfying the shift but that's just my opinion.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right let's get to the Jeep stuff we've been putting people off line off so you talked to my man or your man David Tracy who what you
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he runs the Atopian, one of the guys that runs the Atopian, which is an enthusiastic website, but he's known for his Jeep stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's had a hundred different Cherokee XJs and ZJs and flat fenders.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he drives crazy jeeps to the Easter jeeps of fiery.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a postal Jeep from Michigan.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's good for you David.
[SPEAKER_00]: He used to work for Jeep, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: He worked on the development of the Jeep area.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, he's kind of done it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were chatting about what Jeep should do for the next generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I had a pretty good idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I think that the- But we are all of the map here, haven't we?
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go from 9-11 to 0-6 to Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I almost think that look realistically, as much as we'd love like a tiny cheap affordable Wrangler going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably not going to happen, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the direction that's the Lance's taken with the prices and with their trend toward these luxury things, like, I would love it to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't see it happening, but there is a potential savior here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what if I was cheaper, what I would have done, which is gonna sound sacrilegious, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would never have done the recon as a full electric.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's gonna be a total flop, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: $65,000, 230 miles of range.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the flop's going to sustain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do, well, that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I would do is make that vehicle a range extended
[SPEAKER_00]: So give it but they just kill the four by you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well here here me out though, like like to doing with the RAM charger Yeah, we're you get a hundred miles of electric range 150 miles of electric range and then you have a four cylinder that's an extra generator, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And call that the new Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you still have open top doors off It's gonna be expensive, but it's gonna be a step forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still gonna be good off-road That's what they should do not for the new Wrangler
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, for us enthusiasts, do what they did with the RAM 1500, and continue the current jail as the Wrangler Classic, and discounted heavily.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really think there's potential there for big sales, because the Wrangler jail is fundamentally a very, very capable, very, very good vehicle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It can go anywhere you point it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've been around long enough for the most part, and I mean, I'm not for about easy, I've worked out a lot of issues, but dropped the MSRP on that by 10 grand,
[SPEAKER_00]: have the new range extended Wrangler start at 45 and then you satisfy both into the spectrum.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's going to work.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you why.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have figured out over the last whatever 15 years of doing this, that people don't want base Wranglers.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have bottom thinking that we have made this mistake.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have bottom thinking that
[SPEAKER_02]: an affordable rancor let's say a $35,000 rangler is the way to go and yet when we get them and we do the video series it's very popular though my willy series was incredibly popular they're not people and and worst yet when you go to the dealer and you talk to them about it they say that they can sell those vehicles when anybody walks into a g-peeler to buy a rangler they always want the rubicon
[SPEAKER_02]: they just do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether they actually go off road or not, it's a sad assemble.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a lifestyle assemble.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just encompasses who they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then to walk out with like a small tire cheap wringer just never works.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the first thing they do, I'll give you an example of this because I'm living it right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember we took the wheels off of our cheap wringer?
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got them on sale.
[SPEAKER_02]: four five wheels right with tires with TPM S sensors on Facebook Marketplace for 395 yeah can't sell I can't sell nobody wants them sure nobody wants them and and if you look at the Facebook Marketplace or it crazes it's just full of factory wheels and tires because very first thing people do when they buy any Wrangler any Wrangler gladiator yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: or a wrangler is a jack-up, the suspension, they put on, it's just a thing, and so I just don't think that people want cheap wranglers.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a better way to go would be to basically create a wrangler or gymney.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it happened to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a cheap wrangler, but not make a cheap, make it make it so in America for a long time I think that the size was an indication of how much money you spent.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, think about that Lincoln Continental Mark II, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was big.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was massive Cadillacs for big.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you spent a lot of money, then you got a lot of metal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was in the case, you could, it's like a watch, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You could spend a vote ton of money on a watch, and you would be paying for the brand, you would pay for the quality, you would be paying for the craftsmanship, for the workmanship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you could take something that's small and precious and make it expensive as opposed to just making a big thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think slowly that might be so you could make a very nice, very exquisite, very
[SPEAKER_02]: Lustworthy, baby Wrangler, and yet not make a cheap and just make it feel like, you can't have the problem as if you make a chimney under the Wrangler brand or whatever version of Wrangler, you wanna call that, a recon, whatever you wanna call that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always gonna be like, I couldn't afford to the Wrangler, so I got whatever they call it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You see, and so you gotta make it special, and you gotta make it unique, and you gotta make it lustworthy, and you're not gonna do that just by making a cheap, it's just gonna not, it's not gonna work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's working with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: the hornet right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it worked well.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hornet died.
[SPEAKER_00]: They discontinued it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it worked brilliantly for the ram.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ram 1500 classic was a mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what Tim said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Huge huge cell.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you asked Tim, I just heard him be with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he said this same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, why is there a decode?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, a mid-sized truck and he said because we had a huge hit with the ram classic.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for the price of a mid-sized truck, which is about $40,000, is that's what he said.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could go and buy a ram classic and get a full-sized truck without having to, you know, downsize and have the, the liabilities of having a smaller truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I mean, that seems like a very clever thing to say if you're the CEO of Ram, because it gives you an excuse not to spend money on building a Dakota.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure that's true, because, you know, I mean, they say why I'm not sure it's true because they sold a dump ton of classic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and Toyota sells 250,000 Tacomas every year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, okay great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not I think it's a whole market segment that you're missing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you I don't think that that's the right excuse to not build a Dakota But I think it is proof that if you take the current product discount at 10k There would be a huge amount of interest in it and first of all my Wrangler series was incredibly popular with my willies I mean every video did over 200k.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really really popular
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I do agree with you that people don't necessarily buy them though because we've talked to the dealers and people don't actually want the base Wranglers But maybe you don't build a base.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you build a wheelies and a Rubicon right as a Wrangler classic the wheelie comes wheelies comes into 32 the Rubicon is in at 45 and then That thing's been around for 10 years now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the two links paid off.
[SPEAKER_00]: You sell a ton of those and then you offer the rev
[SPEAKER_00]: Wrangler, the new one with the electric and the top opening thing and the small gas engine for 50,000 and that's what gets the tech people in the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got the hard core off-roaders going to buy the old one, the hard core tech people that want to buy the new one, he satisfied both.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so I mean, what the building is the 392, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're bringing that back and that's going to be the top of the line.
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember when that first came out, when Morrison was still the CEO and it was $120,000 if you got the AV version of it, which to me seemed obscene for a Wrangler, but now maybe it isn't so.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's putting him the answer to me, I guess that's the question I'm asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think that the real answer is to put the small hemie in the Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and people want the 5.7 and they don't want the 6.
[SPEAKER_02]: They want the base hemie, they don't want the big one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so you want a small jewel-like Wrangler as the new one?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying that might be a way to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure in the Wrangler world because
[SPEAKER_02]: What you're doing is building a baby G-wagon in essence, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what you're doing in the end of the problem with that is if people want a G-wagon, they want a G-wagon, and G-wagon Mercedes is building a baby G, so now you're competing with the actual baby G. Yeah, but that's could be a hundred grand.
[SPEAKER_02]: It probably will be a hundred grand.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's could be really expensive, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so I'd love to hear what you guys think in the comments below of what would you want to see in a new Wrangler?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that could be a realistic possibility.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you what I want to see in a Wrangler, okay, this is very basic.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the recipe for Wrangler is sound.
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem that Wrangler has, I think that it was highlighted by the Bronco, is that they kept the off-road goodness, but they didn't engineer any more on-road goodness into it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at some point, the compromise you make with the Wrangler ends up with a buyer-based, the buys Wrangler for what it is, but then it quickly sells it for what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: You see the problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: So you buy because it's all straight off rotor, but then when you get behind the wheel of the thing and you try to commute in it to work or you try to cross country trip and you find out that you're driving a brick into the wind that the fuel economy is horrible to the seating position is horrible.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fix the basics, make it comfortable and make it good off-road.
[SPEAKER_02]: Try to do, like a dual sport motorcycle, try to actually stick both of those things into one vehicle where it's actually a good affordable,
[SPEAKER_02]: easy to live with on-road vehicle and yet at the same time keep all the off-road goodness and all the off-road ruggedness that the thing is known for and if you could if you could create that bandwidth then you would get me interested in that vehicle because I think the compromises you make with the ring are just are just too much right now and that doesn't mean visually you could still make it look very much like a hardcore off-roader but when you actually use it as a daily driver make it usable and you know that's
[SPEAKER_02]: there's no room, there's no leg room, it just doesn't work as a daily driver for a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's what the Bronco did, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They did the wrangle thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you're just competing more hard against the Bronco.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what they should be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think...
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that they should do is just refresh the darn thing or at least come up with a new generation, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The jail has been around for way too long now, and somehow Bronco came along and they brought all this to the table and she just kind of sat there and said, Oh, we got a 392, so that's good enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll give them the VA, but they didn't address the basic issues, which was like liabilities, driveability, and let's face it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The big, big, big elephant in the room is one word reliability, and they got to nail that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think that they need to offer 10,000,000 more warranty, you know, if you're going to convince people that you fix it, you got offer, or even a 10, you're 120,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, it's got to be the best warranty in the segment, because people, the wrangler's going down this road now where a lot of people, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.
[SPEAKER_00]: How have you said that they did sell more rangers in brocco still?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and that's pretty good for a seven year old car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, for whatever reason, and then we could get into the reasons, reliability has become what sells cars these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I've always been what sells cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: But especially now, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: In the past, there was an understanding that you could have a reliable car, but in essence, who would also be boring, and it might be, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: the same car that your neighbor has.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking about the camera.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking about the Corolla.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking about the Tacoma, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're getting reliability, but you're not getting the specificity.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're certainly not getting any Panache.
[SPEAKER_02]: And people understood that there was that compromise.
[SPEAKER_02]: But today I think people wanted all.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so reliability is the number one factor that people talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like if you watch any TikTok, there's so many videos.
[SPEAKER_02]: What are mechanic things is the most reliable cars?
[SPEAKER_02]: These are the top five cars you should never buy.
[SPEAKER_02]: These are the top five cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can drive a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for me, reliability isn't the end-all be-all.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has become so in the marketplace, and I think that has really hurt Jeep, because I think Jeep is on that wrong side of that equation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the one car, or at least it's the one brand that people will say, don't ever buy, if you want a car that you're gonna live with.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though here's something else that's kind of weird, I don't think that most people keep their cars for that long.
[SPEAKER_02]: especially now with electric cars where most of them are least right these are two or three or leases and yet they apply this metric to it because when you go and buy a car you think to yourself well I'm going to keep this car for the rest of my life so I want something that's incredibly reliable something that will never leave me stranded.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, especially if you're leasing a three or four years from now, you're going to swap it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the reliability is this weird kind of like thing that resonates with people, but if you look at it realistically, especially if you're leasing it probably isn't that relevant to your buying decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think it's fundamentally the core of what makes a car car, right, is transportation, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: First and foremost, the car has to work as a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you're talking about a 1980s, Kuntosh, a car has to work like a car, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like jeeps really struggled with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not even talking 10 15 years down the road I'm talking about it like I we ran into a fan yesterday on the trail Who has the Wrangler 4 by E that he's been leasing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that one's been especially problematic Yeah, and look he doesn't he said his goal was 150,000 miles to put on the car Yeah, and 30,000 miles in he had a battery failure
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so like, reliability is a spectrum, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe if you don't want it to go a quarter million miles, but they do want it to go more than 30,000 miles without having a battery failure, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, Jeep has really struggled even on that initial quality, and that keeps people away from the brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having said that though, even though the car's seven years old now, they outsold Bronco last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: 3L, I guess in the Raptor, but the G-ped 2L had E-torch, it had 3.6, had plug and hybrid, it had V8, had diesel, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There were all of these things that the G-ped, that I think made it a, have it, give it a competitive advantage over the Ford, and a lot of that's gone away now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the other problem that Jeep is facing, especially with the Wranglers, just all the competitors are munching away at its market share from all different sides, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, obviously with the four-runner and with the Bronco, you're coming head on at it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're exactly at that same price point.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the same person who might be crush-opping a four-runner and a Bronco in a Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_02]: right but then you got like we just had the passport here we got a car the hundred percent the passport trail sport that you don't think competes with the wrangler and yet because they're making you know the trail sport version and they're apparently on those getting serious about actually making it a real off-road or it doesn't have a low range of but it has recovery points it has real good plates
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, from kind of this weird like lifestyle point of view, now Honda's coming at him and the same thing we're going to get a long-term Palicade XRT.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Same thing, Andre today as we speak is hopefully running in a pera pass You see if it actually does go off road.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, and so so the the traditional market share that Wrangler has had is being You know, munched on in all different sizes and shapes and different brands and so to have a seven-year-old car that hasn't changed in that market is is
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean it historically Jeep has had a 10-year product cycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, it's not sustainable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now I agree with that completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the product is good still.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fundamentally, I think the design is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the capabilities definitely there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But people want to see something new.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I think that affordability has to be in the front of the mind set.
[SPEAKER_00]: So before we finish up that, because I know you got to go to the airport to go drive the new Integra.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about some of the comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Lou.
[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Elliot says, Miata is cute, but not the pinnacle.
[SPEAKER_00]: He agrees with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Elliot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate that support.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, Dad, since I love how TFL's insurance won't let Tommy drive the Ashton Martin, but they will let him drive the Viper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's haggardy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's haggardy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I own that ass of Martin now and they they wouldn't let me drive it for while and then I called him and I was like Why and they're like, well, it's a super car like this thing goes here to 60 and like 28 seconds compared to a modern car.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a like 2006 V8 vanage.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like a five new the car barely to do to 16 to five seconds
[SPEAKER_00]: 300 plus horsepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, well, have you ever driven a fast car?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, yes, I think I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they eventually let me on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I now own that car and it isn't sure by the people that said no initially.
[SPEAKER_00]: Traces, I agree with Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I love in discussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in this age of electric cars and screens everywhere, many car enthusiasts are looking for a more tactile experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And people keep vouching 4 9 11 as the car to provide that experience over many others.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's a great analysis.
[SPEAKER_00]: but you can't you know you can especially like your car your 997 right that's a good example of a car that's modern enough to be reliable But it doesn't have tons of screens You know like it's like with the muscle cars right there were these like post to cars that everybody want to charge your Challenger, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually you kind of worked your way down into like the AMX
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or the javelin, right, cars that, and I think we're there with the Porsche world, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because everybody wants a 997 or a 993 or a G-body, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it becomes so expensive that now the only approachable 911 is a 996 chart, which we had, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And the problem with the 996 is they went from air cooled to water cooled, which is fine, but the interiors are kind of plasticy and that quite as good.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's become the only affordable one and you could get maybe if you want a manual that's not a convertible You can even in the 996 range if you want that you're probably gonna pay at least 30,000 that car is gonna have 100,000 miles on it Yeah, probably because it's become almost unaffordable now for most people
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I got luck.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got lucky.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'll do a good lucky.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we bought the 997 first in 2005, which is a one of the suffers from the same issues that the 996 does.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am esparing, of course, Boris scoring, especially to get the career or S. We bought it for $35 and I just took it in and they came back with an $18,000 repair bill.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I got it for a bargain, but really when it's all set and done, it's going to be a $70,000 car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the rate we're going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chris says the Jeep road map that they started three years ago is idiotic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, realistically, that was probably started in 2010 knowing how long this company's work.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Recon is so stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do agree with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fixed before by E. It's a great plug and hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are forgetting that the Jeep for by E was the best selling plug and hybrid in the US for the past three or four years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the key to the rate, I was talking to our dealer about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was because of discounts and that was because of federal incentives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the reason the four of my ears were so, so, so popular is because they would lease for nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you tacked on federal and state incentives, they were so, so, so cheap.
[SPEAKER_00]: And without that, jeep realized that this thing's not going to sell.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, since I got from listening to Tim Kinesk, this is interview is that they really dug themselves under Var, what was his name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Devars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They really dug themselves a huge hole, and they're a scrappy company, to me, still Antis, FCA Chrysler, you know, I'm just going back in time, has been kind of a scrappy as to the big Detroit 3, they've always
[SPEAKER_02]: they've always been the underdog.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I've always loved that company because I always root for the underdog and they've always done the most with the least amount of resources.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now they're really up against it with their back against the wall.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The product makes it that that that basically Pujo forced on them or somehow decided was proper for America.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was exact wrong product makes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now they're not just playing catch up, they're just behind the ball in such a huge way and they're really struggling to figure out a way with limited resources to dig themselves out of this hole.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm rooting for him, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope they do well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I worry that, you know, having everything is not the answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem is you went down that road and that road led to...
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, good sales, but at some point, if you've had the enemy, you've had the enemy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, there's this resurgence right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: People want to go back to basics.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, the government has gotten rid of fuel economy standards.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you can go, but at some point, that's going to change.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know that gas prices are going to go up again.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then having very expensive fuels, you know, drinking,
[SPEAKER_02]: Gosling vehicles is not going to be the way and personally I feel horrible when I'm one of the reasons that we had the rapture on We had the TRX and one of the things that made me feel bad about it was the fact that you know you're just you know Using up this finite resource that could be better used and I don't making plastics or doing something else And you're just kind of you know commuting to our local grocery store getting 10 miles per gallon and that doesn't make me feel good even though You know the world says that I should be very happy that I'm sitting behind the wheel of a TRX and that maybe that's just me But I think there's other people like me
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other problem, more practical from a sales point of view is I think everybody who's wanted a TRX is had a TRX.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now our dealer says he's got what 30 summer reservations for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe I'm wrong about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there is a demand out there for these.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I kind of feel like, you know, you need to find a new path.
[SPEAKER_02]: And going down the old path is a temporary solution.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they know that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they know that this is just a band-aid until something else comes along.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's something else is supposed to be the hurricane.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet the RHL isn't exactly knocking down the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, V8 have worked in the U.S. since 1932, so I don't think that they're going anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm soon, I think it's probably the right path at this time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well guys, let's know what you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you got to hit the airport's 10 a.m.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and, um, drop us a comment.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should get everyone following us on Patreon for your great questions this week in your comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always fun to read those.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to, of course, list in live, um, patreon.com slash tflcar is the plate to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, thanks for watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye!