[SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to the lower-hounds podcast, your guides to the upside-down.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm John.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Alicia.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are the lower-hounds.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're covering Stranger Things, the final season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Season 5, coming out, finishing on New Year's Eve 2025, a recording just after the New Year.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's going to be a fun time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Alicia, can you tell everybody where to get in contact with us?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, so you can reach out to us on the Discord.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll find that in the link tree in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is our social hub for the podcast network.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also email us at, I guess this is going to be on horror at the horror at the Lorehouse.com.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think you qualifies.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's got horror elements.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Monsters, chat check, cosmic horror for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yet, not, I'm going to, I'm going to say a spoiler here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, which is weird, which is one of the weird things that decisions that were made.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where are all of the creatures of the outside is, are we doing full spoilers now?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just gonna say, let's just go full spoilers the whole way.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you're listening to this podcast, you've, there's no way that you've not already watched the finale, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like stringer things fans are kind of rabbied like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think we should just go full spoilers
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, where was Vekna's backup?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's my question.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a great question.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, I don't need backup.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have a deep voice and therefore I don't need backup.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'll say in the deep voice, if you want to support us directly, you can always go to patreon.com.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's the lower hounds or anywhere else in the link tree in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_05]: See our patreon and supercast links and get a lot of bonus content.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're doing a lot of bonus content this day these days.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's going to be a swell year of all that.
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... this is one of our first podcasts of twenty twenty six if not the first i don't remember was was frank inside pre-new year i think it was pre-new year yeah all right on the thirty of u.s. day time this is very exciting we're we're in the new year and ready to start on off on a note okay is it is it going to be or actually doesn't even qualify for this year because the finale came out
[SPEAKER_02]: on New Year's Eve.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's fully 2025.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it didn't make any of our lists.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll say that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And honestly, though, we didn't even watch, we only watched the first four episodes before our lists.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I didn't know about you.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think I was more likely to rank it after those first four episodes than I was after watching the rest.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing is, and we have to, we have to call out the elephant in the room right away.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just did full coverage of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Dairy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, this, you know, stranger things has always ripped pages out of the Stephen King Playbook, you know, kids, cosmic car, all that, but watching them side by side just made the comparisons inevitable.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can understand why I know that there are people that's what's discussion on the discord, the spend discussion, and other discord I've been in.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are people who prefer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Stranger Things, too, it welcome to Dairy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I understand it's maybe it's a lighter tone, more of that adventurous spirit.
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, like I just kept thinking,
[SPEAKER_02]: it welcome to dairy was gave me so much it was one of my top ranked if you haven't listened to our top 10 yet it was in my top five shows for the year and this just didn't measure up I'd say
[SPEAKER_02]: the most successful part of the finale for me and I am we we have some good things we're going to call out and we're going to get Nicole to she sent us a voice mail we're going to include later which I think will be positive reflecting those of you who really loved it but for me the most successful parts were the callbacks to the prior seasons.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's probably right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to give a full hot take here, a full overall thought on the season?
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe include some background on your Stranger Things fandom.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, so I mean, I jumped on the Stranger Things boat right away, you know, obviously right up my alley.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, compared it to Stephen King, guitar, and sci-fi.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely loved the show going all the way through pretty much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was even a defender of the seasons that people were detractors from.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was even, I was one of the few people I suppose who was excited to see colleagues show up back here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Although I think she was underused.
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, this was the weakest season of them all, and part of me wonders, you know, there's that play with the first shadow, it's in London and New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I watched the documentary behind it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, I have not been able to go to London or New York to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I did get some interesting, full information about it from a slime tutorial on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was a mistake to do it at the same time as they were writing this and splitting their head writer between that play and this final season.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that shows.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's probably right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I only found out about the play after watching the first four episodes of the season.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't really look too deep into it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I read somewhere that the Duffers were saying, anything really important from the play will be included in the final season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Any details?
[SPEAKER_05]: So I didn't worry too much about it?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what was included.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you can enlighten me on if there were details that you'd be sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, basically, when they went back in time, the play is set during the high school days of, you know, all of the adult characters, you do a Joyce Hopper, and also Henry was there too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Vekna.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what's interesting is Joyce at no point ever calls out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, hey, I went to high school with this guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, yeah, that's so weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It does Henry Creel have some Pennywise powers, where he makes the people forget about him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's that is what I was wondering or like she doesn't recognize him somehow or something, but it's like in the play he the play takes place After he has this whole thing work, you know, that we see in this final episode he goes to that cave And he sees that scientist and that's where the like mind-flayer particles infect him and and all of that starts and the play takes place
[SPEAKER_02]: and then he apparently disappears for I forget what it is like a week something like that and he comes back and he's traumatized and they move to Hawkins and that's when the play takes place is shortly after he's arrived in Hawkins so he's already been infected by the mineflair at this point and he's not completely given over to it yet but he is like
[SPEAKER_02]: spoilers for the play a little bit, but he is like torturing and killing people's animals And he is like that weird dude in school.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like everyone thinks of him as that weird dude in school And he was in this play within the play with choice that Joyce is writing so it's like weird He's memorable.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no way they wouldn't remember him Right, yeah, I want to see the play.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks spectacular
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't know if I want to see it at this point.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think I'm ready to put the Stranger Things bug to bed, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Any other thoughts, general thoughts on this season that you want to shout out?
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, I guess it was...
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like the ambiguous ending with 11, even though there's some plot holes in Mike's whole theory that I think would make it not work in terms of the ability of Kylie's powers, but it's like, you know what you, you want to believe that you do you, although okay, it's so
[SPEAKER_02]: Millie Bobby Brown, who plays 11, was spotted in Iceland and people like oh three waterfalls and there's a people kept pointing out places in Iceland with three waterfalls and I was really surprised that they didn't use the Use like the most prominent one from all of the Icelandic photography and stuff, but anyway, it's well, but you're not gonna you're not gonna pick the most famous one right if you're hiding out
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess, I mean, there's a lot of waterfalls in Iceland.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, she's just gonna stand out because she's clearly not Icelandic and presumably does not speak the local language.
[SPEAKER_02]: So especially in some small town, they're gonna be like, hello, stranger, who doesn't speak our language.
[SPEAKER_05]: And she's gonna go, you are like papa.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, yeah, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: I I did also like the hypothetical ending I think But not because not because I think she lived because I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that there are too many plot holes in my theory like there's no way Holly lived that long right like 30 or 40 more minutes And also wouldn't Holly be one of the first people to die from the blast and then the illusion would fail
[SPEAKER_05]: And there were people in there, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's called right under the bomb.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I suppose she slipped away 11 slipped away quickly enough to that back room where she had access to, you know, where they would crawl into the tunnels.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah, it just collies powers didn't, wasn't it stated, collies powers didn't project that far.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't remember, but she did have a standing illusion you'll recall in Henry's mind when they were running to the cave like the illusions so I guess they set that up in that episode at least.
[SPEAKER_05]: Although again, you would want to set that up a little bit further or be like here.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have been practicing right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's also in one person Henry's mind with whom she has a connection with the shared blood and all that versus an entire military who what happened to the military after all this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Great question.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why didn't the military run after 11?
[SPEAKER_05]: They were right there.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: They had so much time to grab her out of there if that was the real 11.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or just why, you know, the others were killing soldiers left and right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why were there no consequences for Hopper and all the rest, the kids and everything?
[SPEAKER_02]: And they just hated town?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I could have seen them.
[SPEAKER_05]: I could have seen Hopper.
[SPEAKER_05]: maybe getting away with that but like to become ship sheriff again like man that seems a little impossible
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I get I don't want to do the nitpick thing because no, I do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think here's the prop.
[SPEAKER_05]: Here's here's what I'm going to say is I I think I'm a little Kinder on the episode then you want to be I I want to be okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I know, but I think my heart trains were tugged a little more.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean by this episode I did try I You're right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I cleared up a little bit at the D&D game at the end
[SPEAKER_05]: uh but the problem is for most of this season I was so taken out of the performances by a lot of weird repeated problems that I started to nitpick and I think you can nitpick any piece of media honestly.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to find a plot hole you will find a plot hole.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, listen to watch TV since or send a message.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But my point is, if I'm looking for the plot hole, that means the show has already failed me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I am already out of it if I'm looking to nitpick.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the show for four seasons really held me held by suspension of this belief and made me not nitpick.
[SPEAKER_05]: I too, you said you were a defender of the worst seasons.
[SPEAKER_05]: I too is a defender of the seasons that were less popular.
[SPEAKER_05]: My wife, she stopped watching after season three.
[SPEAKER_05]: I went on to season four.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought season
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think they should have ended at the end of season four of Backness should have just been defeated and it would have been done and we would have been good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I just think that there were a lot of missteps here that were easily avoidable and I think it goes back to There was a directive I believe a few years ago from Netflix to its creators say make sure people can second screen all your shows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what I was feeling.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when you make it to the people Ken's second screen, it makes me want to second screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not that type of person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am intensely locked in and watching most of the time person.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I pick up my phone, that's a failure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this was really making me want to pick up my phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to watch it in chunks and take a lot of breaks because I was really struggling with watching it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, all right, pivoting does something nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: It did look great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was, I think for most of the characters, it was a satisfying enough bittersweet ending, like I think about the older kids and talking about how they'll meet up once a month from now on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's almost certainly not going to happen, but absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, oh, adults from across the country meeting up for every month, like, no, that is not going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, but it is that sort of where they, they kind of part of them acknowledges that, and you know, they say, it's, will always basically have the memories of what we did together will always be that to each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there was a certain bittersweet realism in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: who's ending are you like if there were to be a spinoff for one of these characters there's going to be a spinoff yeah but not with these characters but if they're with one of these characters who would you most want to follow after this oh Nancy's gonna do the born assassin trilogy again like
[SPEAKER_05]: there's no way she can give up that action hero life look at her I mean come on look at her mom even you know right right you oh yeah I mean Karen Wheeler you see where Nancy got it from right like Nancy got all her fight from Karen Wheeler Ted's just over there like we forgot he was in the hospital the whole time speaking of people we forgot about our Derek's parents still tied up in the
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the part 18 months later.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could feel like Derek would look a lot sadder at that last D&D game.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's dipshit Derek.
[SPEAKER_05]: Who knows?
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got about his family.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's delightful Derek now.
[SPEAKER_02]: See, that's what I, one of the things it worked for me in the first block of episodes was turning him from dipshit Derek into delightful Derek.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was a bit bummed that they didn't lean into that more in the finale.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know he was he was really good, especially in the first half, there was a really fun promo video where he finds Jamie Campbell Bauer, uh, would driving a golf cart and he's like, hey there, hey there, I forgot his real name, Derek's real name, but, uh, and they chat for a minute and he asks Jamie, he's like, do I die of the family and he's like, oh, I'm going to end you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to take you.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're mine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um,
[SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, that didn't happen, in other words, but it was just funny.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I like the chemistry between the actors, better than I like the chemistry between their characters, and that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's one of the writing than the acting, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: What did Jamie Campbell bower he seems he I don't know obviously but he comes across is like a nice gentle dude in in interviews and things like that and so I must be so much fun for him to be this big battery with a voice, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, I love they gave him a break this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, we're only going to put you in the makeups sometimes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to have a reason for YouTube not a not have to do the makeup and b have people see your face.
[SPEAKER_02]: They remember like this is the person who play this iconic character.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope I hope that I'll see him and other stuff soon, obviously.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is far from his first role, but someone was mentioning.
[SPEAKER_02]: the possibility of him turning up in Star Wars based on nothing, but honestly, I'd love to say it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he'd be a great Jedi or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was in a public.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was, I would be great.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was I thought more scary as Henry Creole than he was as Vekna.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I really thought he sold the horror of just a mad man who can put on a kind face.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, and yeah, I want to my pros of this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: I made a list of things I liked and the list of things I didn't like, and my the first one on my list of pros was the performance, the whole performance of Jamie Campbell Bower is back and Henry Karel.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it was just so incredible.
[SPEAKER_05]: He really embodied that character.
[SPEAKER_05]: He has a great sense of humor about himself too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I remember in season four, they put him on a one of those read tweets about yourself shows.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he was reading like, give us the back no see.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he was like cracking up about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like he's like, the, the what?
[SPEAKER_05]: But he's so funny.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he's so, I, I first saw him as Anthony in the, in Swiny Todd, the, the Johnny Depp version.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so it's funny because I, I saw him as like a kind face and we're first introduced to him in season four as just, you know, a mentor for L and obviously find out that he
[SPEAKER_05]: I really love that and I loved that the show teased a redemption arc, but didn't go through with it because that would have been Way worse if we did a vector redemption arc.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he's been murdering children for two seasons straight Well really for five seasons straight.
[SPEAKER_05]: We just learned about it last season and we did not need Henry Something to be like, I am here with the light and I am going against the emperor, you know It's just it's just wouldn't a soul.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think
[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, I looked him up just to see, and actually the, the, the demon barber feed street, so we need to talk with his first role apparent, my own, okay, over a second.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like ever?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or first film role at least.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I saw, he's also, I was like, there's something he was called winter and wartime, I was like, wow, is that an American remake of the Dutch film?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I clicked through, like, no, it is actually the Dutch film or Lachs Vinter.
[SPEAKER_02]: he played a child in that as well which blows my mind like what what do you speak Dutch I don't know if he needs to go back and watch that movie again he's multi-talented no his veccan vocabulary is wide I don't know I'm gonna get somewhere with that
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... but yeah i i really enjoyed i mean with will's acting was quite cheesy this whole season he did a lot of like shaking and curing up and i was like all right i'm over this by the end of the season but when he's like you could you could help us you could defeat the mine flair come on you were just a kid like me i was like all right well let's i was like writers let's not do this let's not do this and then he's like ah he didn't control me i was like yes
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, so I wonder, like, the mind flare, I guess we do know there's going to be some kind of spin-off as you referenced, and we know it's going to take place in a different time and place, different characters.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if it's going to be before or after this, I'm guessing before, but I do wonder, like, is the mind flare really gone?
[SPEAKER_02]: What about that whole?
[SPEAKER_02]: What do they call it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Dimension A or something?
[SPEAKER_05]: the goal of the BS in the end.
[SPEAKER_05]: We can just go to the Abyss, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think the mind-flaring thing I think that was a physical manifestation of the mind-flare.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a cosmic entity, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The Abyss, that's kind of like todush space in Stephen Kinglor.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why don't know what that is, so we talked about it on the past.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I could read, I'd be really mad.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't think my employer is gone, but I think they said it's not gonna directly relate to the same like creatures and everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: in the spin-off they were talking about like it's I think it's going to be like probably separate Lord everything but they said there's a reason it's going to be a stranger things they did almost tease though in the finale they tease when Joyce and Hopper out to dinner and he's like let's move to Montauk they kind of teased maybe a spin-off with that because I don't know if you know about the creation of the show but the original show was supposed to be called Montauk
[SPEAKER_02]: Was it a project montage like the military?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what it was.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was at Camp Hero and that's what the whole idea for shrinker things was based on.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then later, they moved it to Indiana.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it was originally going to take place in Montau.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know if that was just an homage to the original idea.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's the best case scenario.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that would be just a nice way to tie things up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or if they're planning to eventually do a spin-off, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're going to let this IP go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh no, no, no, no, I mean, I don't know who knows.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, well, well, we're not, we don't know right here.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to keep going on this.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think you have the Montdox series without we don't know right here, even Harbor 2.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, I mean, I would say maybe the question is more for David, David Harbor has been very busy.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not a writer, iconic actress, but I feel like at this point in her career, this is the biggest thing that she's done and I can see why she might want to
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I see where you're saying.
[SPEAKER_05]: Out by the way, another good thing, her getting the hack off the head of the guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wasn't it great to watch that come full circle?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, Joyce was the mom in season one that goes, giving my cigarettes, giving me this, giving me that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I needed an advance and just fuck off everybody.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm so glad that she was the one who said, you fuck with the wrong family.
[SPEAKER_05]: They even give her a bomb, which was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I like that whole sequence there where it's all of them remembering the things that back now in the mind player have done to the people that they love.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was the use of the montage or the, do you call it a montage when it's flashbacks like that?
[SPEAKER_02]: But to,
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, the use of the flashbacks, again, was for me, it's what brought it all home, it's what, you know, I may not like this final season as much as the prior ones, but it did feel like it was bringing it all together, at least in that part, even though, and there was a reference at some point at the very end where Maya Hawk, oh man, now I'm suddenly forgetting her character named rock and robbing.
[SPEAKER_02]: where she is saying, she's talking about how things have changed in the, after this 18-month time jump, which I see you have on the dislike list.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, this isn't even the, this isn't even the Hawkins I knew before all of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I felt like there was something in there also about, for the people who are like, this is not the show that it was in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_02]: at the beginning it was kind of this semi-cozy creepy mystery.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end it was this, you know, you know, rock I'm so I can see GIFs.
[SPEAKER_05]: At the same time, I'm almost coming around to that.
[SPEAKER_05]: a little bit because the way a D&D game goes right is you start off exploring and you get you figure out the mystery and you gain your allies and in the end you have the big bad and you're just hacking and you're just getting the hit points down and trying to beat the big boss and then you have your epilogue right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that that kind of is representative of what this show was doing from the beginning and maybe that's okay, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we're okay having the payoff.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do think they could have spread out some of what they did in the finale over a couple episodes and not had everything so packed into a two hour finale.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that they did a lot of meandering in, I think this is why there was a backlash to that second batch of episodes this season too.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like, come on, let's, let's focus.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the end game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's focus and get to the finish line.
[SPEAKER_02]: Question for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: How would you have felt if instead of forcing us to pretend that these 20 somethings are teenagers?
[SPEAKER_02]: What if they had done a bigger time jump between seasons?
[SPEAKER_05]: How long is Max gonna have to be in this fucking coma?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think they tied themselves on a box with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I tied themselves on a box, put themselves on a box with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, okay, Rand, sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's over time.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was just listening to that already a book.
[SPEAKER_05]: I listened to the fall asleep and you know, you lose your hands like, kill the boat, and that's the whole, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, all right, enough will of time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, yes, I don't think I would have liked that, honestly.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I, I almost was okay with overlooking it like watch Greece.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've been pretending that 50 years were 20 years old.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's for a lot of years.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a stock of chatting.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like definitely in our 30s, or in two, yeah, at Greece.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I, you know, there's a story story of run ups playing children.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just so glaring, especially when they had the flashbacks in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, wow, they really used to be babies, but this is actually 10 years later.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, it was quite clearing at some points.
[SPEAKER_05]: They even did.
[SPEAKER_05]: I saw on TikTok.
[SPEAKER_05]: They did, uh, you know, the current actors reacting to their first interviews for songs and interviews as kids.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're like, oh, my God.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_05]: Dustin's actor.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember his name.
[SPEAKER_05]: But he goes, I don't think I've changed the looks at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I think I pretty much looked.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and he's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's definitely looks older.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was the one I was saying that when we're talking about violent nights, I was saying he could take up the Because David Harbor plays Santa there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, Gayton Manzano is the one if we were going to choose a train stranger things younger character.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the one who could take over that role.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm into it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just, I think that the 18 month time jump I'm just gonna say it was the weakest thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when I mean that is the first 18 month time jump right at the beginning of the season, is they do skip again at the end.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I thought that it was just, you know, the last season ended on this like urgent thing of the world is literally like, there are fissures in the earth now.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we have to find Necna.
[SPEAKER_05]: and they kind of undercut that by being like we've been looking for him for 18 months.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then Max just being, I didn't understand how there was a, there were some really weird plot holes like why did Henry need will to find Max when she's been in the same spot for 18 months and she's in the exact spot you would find a, you would find it for much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like it's, she's just in the hospital and also he's going around town abducting children.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, stuck in one part of town.
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't I don't really understand that there were some other weird things like Mrs. Wheeler is in critical conditions.
[SPEAKER_05]: She can't talk.
[SPEAKER_05]: She can't move.
[SPEAKER_05]: She can barely write and then she's like, I'm going to beat the shit out of these demigorgians.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Whatever they were.
[SPEAKER_02]: When she came and she did, that was kind of fun when she exploded, the dish was, sorry, the washing machine, but then I was so watched that block of episodes with my family because I was in the US at the time and someone, one of the members of my family is like, why isn't she speaking else?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, because her throat has been torn up and stuff and she's healing and then 10 seconds later she starts talking like, I'll get nevermind.
[SPEAKER_02]: You forget.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do feel with Ted Wheeler.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was mentioned.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it looks like maybe he died.
[SPEAKER_02]: Although he went down like a champ if that's the case.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he was in the epilogue.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was at the graduation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like they changed their mind and did an ADR where they were like, oh, actually he's in a coma because test audience didn't like that he died.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so then they kind of just forgot about him until the epilogue.
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like they should have killed them off.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I hate to be this guy, but we needed more death in this finale, like in this final season.
[SPEAKER_05]: The stakes started to feel very weak when kind of our characters were done, like Barb felt like a real death in season one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, right, and every season, they kind of got a little weaker on the stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eddie, Eddie was a big one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Eddie was a big one.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that was a thing, though, that people were starting to make fun of is like, every season, the stranger things introduces someone and sets them up to knock them down.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like sets up this emotional, uh, bond, just to make you hurt later, and, uh, they didn't really do that this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they kind of tried to do it with Coli, but I felt nothing.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just don't think with Coli.
[SPEAKER_02]: i was actually excited for her to come back but then i honestly at the end of the day you know there were a lot of theories going around about maybe actually kali is a bad you know bad guy controlled by the mind players something like that and at the end when i was like oh there's she's just gonna go out like that like i guess this redeems her and so we know
[SPEAKER_02]: when she tells Elle, she needs to stay.
[SPEAKER_02]: She means it and it's not just doing something nefarious.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, it was like, you just, you brought her back for, for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then just unceremoniously killed off all of the other psychic, killed children, like, okay, yeah, I just felt like if you're gonna bring her back genuinely user, because that was the thing with Eddie, is that he was a real, even at the beginning of last season, what was the blonde girl's name, who?
[SPEAKER_05]: Chris, you wake up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't like this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, everybody get that back in your head from TikTok.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, it's bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh man, hold on, hold on, hold on, I'm pulled.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: You really never heard this remix that somebody did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not on TikTok.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[SPEAKER_05]: I know, but it's been everybody.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's been, you know, everything on TikTok eventually makes its way to Instagram and Reddit and everything else.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you, if you really don't know it and for folks that don't know it here, look up the original creator and read it, I'm not sure who it is, but here you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't like it, I
[SPEAKER_05]: Like cultural phenomenon, and we don't have a lot of those shows left where it's in the zeitgeist You know, I sort of a collective consciousness show What do they call that?
[SPEAKER_05]: The omnipotent culture.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, my culture here monoculture.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I couldn't get there But I we don't have a lot of those anymore, and I feel like stranger thinks who's one of the last ones that was hanging on And that's why string that's why Netflix will never let this franchise go
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what else?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what is their monocosal show now?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they had an unexpected moment for a second there when that adolescence, but other than surprises like that, what else commands on Netflix, specifically commands, and so it everyone's talking about it around the water cooler.
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't need it anymore, because now they've got HBO.
[SPEAKER_05]: I will say I think it's happening.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think there's any back about it this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, again, I'm still happier with that than with Paramount just because of the whole situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I still calm cast would have been my choice definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this, here, what we saw with this, makes me nervous for what they will do with HBO.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, there's going to be a Vectna Pennywise showdown at some point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, but it's it's just it's not even the milking at part, but just like the being lazy about the writing or saying we need lean back writing as you were saying things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really afraid they're going to binge drop HBO shows and just ruin everything that makes HBO special.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I have no idea what's going on with bin show binge watch culture because a Netflix is sort of starting to soften up on that I'm not good for there now, basically.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know it's not good for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why I know that a lot of people are like, no, I really like bin shows But like, I don't know like I can binge a show in a weekend or you can make me pay for two months to have a show Right, like does seem like it would be better for the business to have it weekly
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, yeah, when it's weekly, people talk about it and they're in podcasts about it, so it's getting way more promotion, and it's probably going to cover this season if this was weekly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, it's probably would have been a big enough show where we have to cover it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, perhaps.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, it's, there are a lot of criticisms I have on the show, but there's a lot of positive to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I want to talk about it first.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's take a quick break.
[SPEAKER_05]: Alicia, we have a podcast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, maybe not a podcast, but imagine a toaster of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And a toaster.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just getting, getting started on an elaborate exposition dump that is going to be the 17th time this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to explain the upside down or the demigorganes or the mind flare in some way that doesn't quite make sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that they, you know, I know that you have also been getting into theoretical physics and I'm really into theoretical physics and I like the the wormhole explanation with the exotic matter.
[SPEAKER_02]: That works well enough for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think any physics professors are going to show this in class, you know, to help there's students understand physics.
[SPEAKER_02]: But as far as, you know, a popular culture sci-fi show, this, it was solid enough on the science and they did interesting things like bringing exotic matter and what is exotic matter?
[SPEAKER_02]: Look like, I don't know, let's make it make everything melt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a memorable visually.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I did like some of them, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think the problem was they know that we like those, and so now they inserted one every five months, I think they could have just like cut it back by 50% and it would have been great.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, milder critique.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I liked that one with the wormhole, but then you go to Operation Beanstalk, and I'm like, I don't think you really need a cute name for just we're gonna climb the same tower we're in right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: operation upside down tell yeah i mean what what fun is planning adventures if you don't have code names i guess that's right whatever um i do appreciate that they have always doubled down on uh walkie talk is not working at all how they're supposed to work um that that always makes me chuckle i mean it's the same thing in every sci-fi show we we talked about this in die hard
[SPEAKER_02]: right like when Dustin's trying to tell them don't shoot at the exotic matter and of course the communication at that moment only works one way right um did you enjoy let me ask you did you enjoy the music this season
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so last season, one of the highlights for me is I love Kate Bush, especially running up that hill and the way it was used in season four with Max running out of that side down and everything that was so powerful, so memorable, loved everyone was listening to the song after that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this season, it was like they just, the constant half-ass loop of that song
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, and also the purple rain, I don't think that that was necessarily the right needle drop for 11 to say goodbye to Mike, but I loved the final needle drop of this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was really lovely in the closest I came to tearing up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which was that again?
[SPEAKER_02]: I forget.
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember the effect.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm like, I recall what you were saying.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I need a hero, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there was that it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, no, it was heroes.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was heroes by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, David Bowie and I love that song.
[SPEAKER_05]: Heroes, yeah, that was great too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought that was great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that was great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that was great.
[SPEAKER_05]: That was, if fit the themes, you had the animated drops, like that's where I was getting emotional that, you know, the ND and D game.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I really did love
[SPEAKER_05]: the ending where, you know, they're putting away their their books and then they pass the torch to Hollywood in our friends.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I actually really liked that part.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was the strongest part of the entire season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where was Erica?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because she was all into the D&D.
[SPEAKER_05]: She should have been in her own group.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's a DM and her group is full.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like they were like they were like Erica got too old.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's no longer cute little kids, so Serving in New Holly.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_05]: New Holly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they recaster.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I think you know it's weird though.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is I think the old out?
[SPEAKER_05]: Holly actress was actually the same age.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we didn't like her, I guess.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there were twins, there was play by twins because they were played by babies.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that even they, they have, I went to their Insta account, and they were like, you know, we really support the recasting.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's much more demanding role this season, and they have retired from acting at the Grand Old Age of 13 or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, come.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have to say that, so I said, I watch it with my family.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now my dad never really watch, he's not a TV person, but sometimes we're all doing a family watching event.
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll come sit in the room and play poker with us online poker.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was aggravated because he was too distracted by the show that he didn't do as well in poker that night.
[SPEAKER_02]: But one of the things that he commented on, he was like, how old is that little girl?
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, she's such a good actress.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's interesting now.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think she was supposed to be 12.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, by show lore, she should be like seven or eight, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think, you know, the way that they're having her like dress and stuff is like not a 12 year old.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, they definitely aged her up all of a sudden, but not the rest of them, just her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, but no, I'm saying like they were treating her like she was like an eight-year-old.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like she has an imaginary for like if you're 12-year-old has an imaginary front and that's more concerning than an eight-year-old having an imaginary front, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and eight-year-olds starting to get a little a little 12-year-old needs to be seeing somebody.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that was a little weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: I, I do think that they focused too much on Holly this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: I, she kind of grew on me by the end of this season and I was okay with it, but I'm curious your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just think that if they were going to do that, then they should have committed through to the end where she did, you know, they didn't have her taking over, that was nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know, I just, there were just a lot of things that I felt like parallel stories that were not really pulled back together in a satisfying way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as I would have liked, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and where they just, rather than, I would have rather had the time devoted to our main characters and to exploring more.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like Will's the only one who had any sort of interesting arc this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess, Mike was there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like was just there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Lucas was there, Dustin was there.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, Lucas, at least, had the thing with Max, but that was really more about Max.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to do Max had a good, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Dustin just got beat to shit.
[SPEAKER_05]: That was his arc.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which was such a Stephen King moment where he says like he's just being bullied by, you know, the Henry Bauer level of bully.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's an eight reference for anyone doesn't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure that fight some in Pennywise.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's just have what works in dairy.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_05]: There needed to be more character moments.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would have taken less holly and more of the characters that we've got, come to love.
[SPEAKER_05]: And also, I would have liked to have the reveal of Vecta's power source more explained, like where did the meteor come from?
[SPEAKER_05]: Did or the rock whatever it is where did the talisman come from who is the mine flare like I I just don't think that we really got that Speaking of Dr. Kay who the hell is that and why was she there?
[SPEAKER_05]: I I almost feel like Dr. Bradder died.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but that's what I mean is like I think that they Kill Dr.
[SPEAKER_05]: Butter and then realize they still wanted him there right and then had to just make a
[SPEAKER_05]: you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, well, we'll have Linda Hamilton and everyone will be happy.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I wasn't happy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, I didn't know who that character was.
[SPEAKER_05]: You didn't give me the motivation.
[SPEAKER_05]: She was a cartoonist villain, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that Papa was a lot more nuanced.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like he was a villain, but you almost like saw his love for 11.
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, no, the time he saved her.
[SPEAKER_05]: great and i i just think that having him there would have been so much better yeah just why did you have to kill him off in that moment if you still wanted to do that arc with the military following him and i don't know and i don't know
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I guess you can't undo that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that is what it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: What if they read it and they were like, brother didn't die in that scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's just in prison and then he gets out because they want to fight for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, there were theories like, I think sometimes that also this was a show because it's so popular where the fan theories got to sometimes I was more intrigued by them than the writing.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were theories that Eddie might come back from the dead as a sort of vampireish character on the who maybe could only live in the upside down.
[SPEAKER_02]: We could have had it last minute assist.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something like that, I would have been totally fine with.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it would have had that satisfying tying the seasons together.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_05]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you think of will source for a moment?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I liked it.
[SPEAKER_05]: you mean like an episode four episode four you know we're not just talking about the finale episode episode four when he you know he's snapping all the demigory stuff and he really comes into his own on this power did you did you enjoy that yeah no that was that was a good big moment
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I want I was but then like that set me up to want more of that and we did get a bit where he can tap into the hive mind and that was useful at times, but nothing, although he was a big participant obviously in the final fight too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I suppose he was.
[SPEAKER_02]: That final fight, seeing 11 face off against the giants, you know, when the I was like that creepy looking tree, of course it turns out to be the body of the mind flare when that came out and the 11 was facing down with it visually
[SPEAKER_04]: right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I think that they gave a lot of the characters awesome final like a few back now in mineflair moments.
[SPEAKER_05]: They did.
[SPEAKER_05]: I will point out that there is a bit of a plot hole here, whereas the source for a class was added to D&D in the third edition, which came out in 2000, that would not have been in the vocabulary in the D&D vocabulary of
[SPEAKER_03]: Oops, these players.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, okay, whatever, it happens, you know, you wanted to do this and it's a fictional universe we can pretend that it existed then.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I will say it was like, for a show that's been very attentive to detail on the 1980s stuff, I was surprised to find that out, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And also, I don't know if they're right that he's a sorcerer because his power wasn't innate, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It was given to him by somebody.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly that he was only borrowing it right.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like channeling which I suppose.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know What is yeah, what do you call that?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think I feel like that should be a class, but Yeah, is it is it a warlock somebody from D&D right in and tell us is it like a warlock where you're getting it from some deity or entity I don't know
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I think it might be, I think it might be always plays a druid, so it's definitely not a druid.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I did enjoy the Will source for a moment.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really did like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was the first victim of Vekna and he was part of the end of Vekna, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And he was able to derive power from what happened to him.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so that that part, I think, worked for me really well.
[SPEAKER_05]: What didn't work for me was the coming out scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: I hate to say it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And maybe it's not my place.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not, you know, I've never had to come out like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but they did it so well with Robin.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I was going to say, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that felt a lot more real and raw?
[SPEAKER_05]: And the will thing felt like an after school special to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it felt like everyone gathered around.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am now going to tell you all about how I'm actually exacted the same, except I like boys and not girls.
[SPEAKER_05]: Me, I was like,
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think people talk like people just don't talk like that, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: My family was surprised by it and you know, I'm so far down the rabbit hole with these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, we've all known forever, but they're not watching like the YouTube videos and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, the fan theorizing on Reddit and all that, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there were a lot of people who were surprised about it because they heavily hinted at it in prior seasons, but I guess they were never explicit about it before that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean Mike was saying to Will like it's not my fault you don't like girls like two three seasons ago But you didn't mean he didn't know that he meant it like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I am glad that Will went from being Vekna's punching bag that they gave him some agency.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you You know fight back against him or to use that abuse that he suffered at his hands as an advantage in a way
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's not that I don't want, will it come out?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's what you never know.
[SPEAKER_02]: You never know.
[SPEAKER_05]: You should have come out.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just felt so many factors.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll see on the gather, everyone around in a circle.
[SPEAKER_05]: And even Vicki, who I don't know, and make sure that I, I mean, you don't mean, like, why was Vicki there?
[SPEAKER_02]: But at least he knows that Vicki will understand more than most people there.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_05]: OK. All right, at least the science teacher wasn't there, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: By the way, so I know I did enjoy that he got to be part of the gang eventually, and I was waiting for that A little late, but that's okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but yeah, I just I thought Robin scene was just a world better Then then we'll see and I wish you know why wasn't his mom hugging him?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like everybody else hugged him, but not his mom, just very weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just very weird vibes for that whole scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, the hug even felt so staged.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: I could feel the choreography.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, and hug now.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a director behind it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And add Jonathan, and it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Take ten hug.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it took them 12 hours to shoot that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then another 12 hours of reshoots.
[SPEAKER_02]: for that scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: For that coming out scene, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[SPEAKER_05]: I just don't understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: What else did they do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Show me your answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Show me the other takes.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just, again, I don't want to linger on this because it is something that should be handled with care, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: This is something that coming out of the 80s was no joke and will probably felt real fear if a kid had a similar experience, well, I mean, I guess nobody had a similar experience, we're getting kidnapped by a monster.
[SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, you know, being gay in the 80s was a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the head of the AIDS epidemic.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just I remember, I went to high school in the 90s and it was, and I had friends who are new were gay, but we just, we did not talk about it for their protection, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, yeah, I had, I was in high school in the late 2000s, early 2010s.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I, it still was like not, people were not fully open.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_05]: The same sex marriage was only made a constitutional right in the United States in the mid-2010s.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well I can say I think it was 2001 when the Netherlands became the first country to have same sex marriage.
[SPEAKER_05]: it's just this stuff was so kept under and you know I understand why they had will do it then like it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was just tortured by Vecta with those fears.
[SPEAKER_05]: He should come out.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just it felt like that was a conversation he should have had.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like wouldn't it have been a bit nice if like he came out to his mom and right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like his mom and his brother start there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we'll just, you know, like hear me out there here.
[SPEAKER_05]: His brother and Mike pass by and over here and hear will go.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just worried people won't accept me and they just come over and they just hug him and or they're Yeah, you know, we're good man, you know, like and then and then slowly people just come in and and start, you know, supporting him.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's much better than, you know, gather the city.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have an announcement to make.
[SPEAKER_02]: Robin, turn on the radio station.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's rockin' Robin with your after school special.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny, because now Robin's actually dating someone, but he came out to the entire group and Robin's like, wouldn't know anything about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, don't ask questions about my friend,
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, you know, there was, uh, there were a lot of people in the Biler community, you know, you people were shipping will and Mike.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, they were like, oh, he's going to leave 11 for, for will.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, first of all, you're delusional.
[SPEAKER_05]: They set up Mike at 11 for the whole season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like how they framed Mike as like his, um, I don't remember the name of the other girl that Robin was in two before But Tammy Tammy thank you that Mike was his Tammy, you know what's about him.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was about you know the identity.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was all good But I I I lost my train of thought
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm just gonna say I'm glad you know I understand the bilershipers, but I don't think it would have been honest or real if Mike was suddenly like, oh, now that you mentioned it, I just realized that I also like men, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: For I too have an announcement.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, but I did enjoy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I remember where I was going now was, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: When he's like, I hope he can still be friends and he's like, not friends, long pause.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Best friends.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like,
[SPEAKER_05]: We had a good time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I'm glad Will's out in the open.
[SPEAKER_05]: Weirdly ridden scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would have rather spent less time filming again and more time writing it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Will did at least get some really badass fighting scenes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, I heard I saw some of them planes about like the mine flare scene was very like, you know, video game me, but
[SPEAKER_05]: My dudes, it's a show where it's about D&D.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, that was a very D&D, you know, hit it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like, we gotta get its hit points down.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's something, I'm like, I was like cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was so in for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I did really enjoy the boss battle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is a show that's kind of meant to be a video game in some ways, so.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm totally on board for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, overall, I just want to say, I found this to be a very safe finale, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: They did not take a lot of risks.
[SPEAKER_05]: They did not kill off a lot of main characters.
[SPEAKER_05]: Even 11, you're like, maybe she's not dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there were a lot of things that worked.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, the whole scene of Hopper, you know, passing along the lesson to Mike, like, don't walk that first road like I did, living yourself for her death.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's...
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it worked mostly and I think that the show you know, they were there was a lot of worrying like is this going to go down the game with runs way where like it was big in the cultural zeitgeist and the finale was so bad that it just you know blocks knocks the show out of existence in the zeitgeist and I don't think that's this I think that this show landed the plane.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, bumpy landing for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the plane has been landed.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think the show will go down with a positive memory.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think people remember the good seasons and forget the sloppy stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think I even said before the finale.
[SPEAKER_05]: This shows legacy comes down to the quality of the finale.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd even just us here talking about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that we've been nitpicking and poking fun a lot, but it did actually soften my feelings toward it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's, you know, there's we've been talking for about a year now about doing some shows some podcasts about like bigger ideas in media and one of the ones that I'd like to talk about is what is a serial show?
[SPEAKER_05]: What is a popcorn show?
[SPEAKER_05]: Where?
[SPEAKER_05]: you don't need to think about it that hard.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's there for your enjoyment and you're going to overlook any plot hole.
[SPEAKER_05]: And can a show go from a prestige show to a serial show?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think this show kind of did.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it mostly did so successfully.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like there look there's a loud vocal minority I think that is going to just crap all over this
[SPEAKER_05]: It might not have been a great piece of media, but it was a good piece of media, and I think we all had a good time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll say on letterboxed, I saw more positive ratings than negative, and right now it stands at, it stands at a 3.3 average rating, and I'll say that in the only reason it's as low as that, which is a very respectable rating on letterbox, but the only reason it's even that low is it's kind of spread out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's definitely a,
[SPEAKER_02]: diverse range of opinions on whether and not this landed, but I see that the ratings are hovering more toward the higher end for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Fair enough.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, let's give some polarizing feedback.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got, uh, I'm going to first do the negative, and then positive, I can W wrote in and said, over all season was in great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Story arcs dragged out to make episodes longer.
[SPEAKER_05]: The series finale was a bit long-winded, and IMO, we needed more sacrifice for main cast to bring it home.
[SPEAKER_05]: I did like the D&D game at the end and the storyteller 5 out of 10 for me, can W happy new year, happy new year, can W.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy New Year.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, I mostly agree with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it will probably have a warmer glow in my memories just because of the overall wrapping up of this huge cultural event that's been going on for a decade of our lives.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ken, a group of us not a great season.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think I'd go higher than five and a 10.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think six or seven.
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't, it was not bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: I liked it more than I just liked it.
[SPEAKER_05]: The middle episode really started to annoy me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I was just getting annoyed at the middle episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the finale, I had fun with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I turned off the lights in my living room.
[SPEAKER_05]: I sat there in the dark.
[SPEAKER_05]: I tried to make a movie theater experience a little bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I had a good time.
[SPEAKER_05]: I tried to set my expectations with the finale, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And it exceeded my expectations.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think maybe that's why I came in a little, a little hotter on it, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: You want to hear from Nicole, who sent it a voice now with more positive thoughts?
[UNKNOWN]: Yay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Laura Hounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Nicole from Nevermind the Music, reporting live, essentially, from a movie theater bathroom where I've just watched... strange things season five finale with the group of dedicated fans.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really cool to watch the finale on a big screen, definitely changed the vibe, and it was really fun to watch it as part of a big community.
[SPEAKER_01]: this show for me was all about community, the fact that people were so engrossed in this and like chatting about it, it was really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really liked, for my family, we all sat down and watched together and it was a way for us to spend time together.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it derivative at times for sure?
[SPEAKER_01]: Were there major plot holes like What happened to Barb and our directs parents still tied up in a barn somewhere?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, but that said production values were so strong in my opinion It was really just a good watch to sit down have some snacks laugh Cry a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I didn't cry that much, but my daughter was
[SPEAKER_01]: ugly sobbing, just sobbing at some of these characters as they grew and developed over time and it was really fun to watch that happen, not like watch my daughter cry, but I think you guys know what I mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: The show was just funny and nostalgic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked the ending.
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked how
[SPEAKER_01]: They had all the action stuff in the first hour and then the second half was really just wrapping up some of the storylines.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had some concerns going into this final episode like how are they going to solve all these questions because there was a lot to unpack.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they did efficiently and kept the plot moving along.
[SPEAKER_01]: Had they breaks for some humorous moments too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I really enjoyed the action you part of this finale, but really like what closing out these character arcs, and sometimes unbelievable ways, but whatever we just had to like check off a box in some cases.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some things I wished happened, really wished Mike and Will got together in the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were really rooting for that as a family here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad Steve didn't die.
[SPEAKER_01]: Big fan of Steve's.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for me the show was strongest in season three, where Steve and Robin were in like the Russian underground bunker on the truth serum drugs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought some of the scenes in season three were the funniest for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Specifically Stephen Robin in the bathroom together where they're like confessing having like a choir at a moment And then I think one of the best scenes in this whole show was when Dustin and his girlfriend were seeing the never-ending story song While the mind-flayer was like chasing them and you could see them in the back of the car
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just overlaid with this very ridiculous, never-ending story song.
[SPEAKER_01]: The juxtaposition there was really cool for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I loved about the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a rubber ant and stupid and touching in some ways and very nostalgic to my childhood as a kid growing up in the 80s in the small town.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know it wasn't the most cinematic show in the most developed show,
[SPEAKER_01]: And you really fell in love with these characters and the actors playing them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all in all for me I'm saying eight out of ten great watch prove me wrong You probably think well Thanks guys and loving your coverage on the short and sweet and I appreciate that Hope to chat with you soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for letting me chime in I mean we're never gonna say that you're wrong Nicole.
[SPEAKER_02]: We really we are grateful for you bringing the that opinion to the table
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think we were kinder on this than we expected to be going in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there is a lot of nostalgia and we forgive a lot of things for it being stranger things.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: We, this is now going to be like, I do think that this has the potential to franchise out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I, look, if a spin off comes out, I'm going to watch it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, it's not going to not watch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's also, I'm sorry, Defer Brothers, but I'm a bit excited to see what someone else has taken in this universe is going to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who the new showrunner is going to be, but I'm excited to see a new story tellers step into this universe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's a good place to leave it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm curious what, I mean, we do have the Stranger Things chat set up on the discord, so we've been able to hear some opinions from the community, which seem to be about as all over the place as you've heard from us, so.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we're both all over the place.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I feel very polarized myself on this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, I'm ambivalent, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've got, I've got, you know, some big feels coming up, but that's mostly nostalgia tug.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like you said, from our earlier seasons.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, it's nice to, like we've all lived 10 years of our lives.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like it's kind of like saying goodbye to a chapter, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's something to be said for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm glad that they were willing to end it at this point, even if, you know, we think it should have ended with season four.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad that they were willing to step back and say, like, okay, that's that's enough of this story.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I respect the fact that they're going to tell other stories in this universe.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm excited for a fresh breath of air in not Hawkins, but Montauk wherever else we're going.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, we know that Mike has become Bill Denbro, and we will see some more stories from it probably in the future, and I look forward to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely, and maybe I would love some in-universe Jonathan movies.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we even talked about that, like Jonathan.
[SPEAKER_05]: We didn't realize that this was actually a David Lynch prequel story, like Biopic, because Jonathan's becoming David Lynch now, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, now he's going to make movies in industrial filly about capitalism and that's that's David Lynch right like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not not David.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's been fun talking about this with you, Alicia.
[SPEAKER_05]: We got a lot going on this year.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is our, you know, one of our first podcasts of the year.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's the first podcast of the year.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to be doing a night of the seven kingdoms together.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm really looking forward to that with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, the whole triarchy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's going to be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: I recently reread the novella that it's based on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, it's a quick read.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's 120 pages, I think, and it's not dense like Game of Thrones is, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, you fly through it, I'm really excited.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's going to be a lot more fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a much lighter take.
[SPEAKER_02]: And from what I've seen from the trailers, it's like, OK, they understand the assignments.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, the tone looks right, the casting looks, you know, on point, they're excited for this.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to be a good time and then we got plenty of other stuff coming.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean to the pit now, I'm going to propose to David that we do some light coverage of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have not watched yet, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I have not watched it.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's one of those ones where I'm coming, I've wrote it off at first because I was like no whiley hospital drama, not my thing, but because I've heard so many great things about the writing and everything, I am like, okay, maybe I should give it a chance.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I am this whole long list of, like, for instance, I am catching up now on, um, on, for what's it called, um, uh, the Greek.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: What?
[SPEAKER_05]: The, the, the, the, the Jackson.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Marilyn and I are going to do a Percy Jackson one shot at the end of the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I am just diving into that world catching up on season one and season two that's there now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, might my watch card is a bit full for the moment, but someday I'll probably watch the pit.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's back in a week.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I'm not going to catch up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to catch up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to catch up before season two, but I hope people like it as much as season one.
[SPEAKER_05]: You say that, but, um, you know, I, I've been sit.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm almost done with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I started this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you were if he after the like halfway through the first episode, you were like, oh, it's very hospital drama, but then well, it wasn't that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's that I am, I am very squeamish and it is.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is an HBO hospital trauma, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like they are showing things.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so that's why I was just sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I'm really enjoying listening to those scenes and not watching them, you know, my eyes for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the sound for me is always the worst.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always have my ears with the squishies and stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: There was one scene where I was like, just tell me what it's over.
[SPEAKER_05]: My
[SPEAKER_05]: She's into it too, and both of us are not really into these shows, like the medical shows, so it is its own thing, and I think people like it if even if they're not really into that, because it's more about the character drama than it is, you know, the episode of the week kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, for me, aside from obviously, we're starting later this month, the 1970 Kingdoms, but the other show that I'm most looking forward to in January.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, it's going to be a binge drop of the marketing has been spectacular.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Wonderman, the new Marvel show, very a spoof of movie making.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just, yeah, again, like I said about 90 to the seven kingdoms when I look at the marketing, I'm like these people understand the assignments,
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've been sharing all of the marketing stuff to the Wonderman channel on the discord just to keep it there for a fast-starity sake because it's hilarious.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm going to check that one out.
[SPEAKER_05]: It looks really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Seems like something I don't really have to be caught up on MCU 4, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I could just hop in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think you can.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has Trevor Suttery played by Ben Kingsley, who, you know, he first appeared.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do make references to the fact that he was played the Mandarin in the Iron Man movies.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, came out as a...
[SPEAKER_02]: being a fake, big fat fake, and then of course showed up in Shung Chi.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is more like the comic version that we saw in Shung Chi.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's exciting.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know we've got a lot of second breakfast in 11th season materials coming up, but we don't know we're covering on 11th season, so I guess we shouldn't hold off on that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, you know, plenty of other shows come in this year.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's still a really great story.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm working on getting that reschedule with Marilyn, so that we can get more Tolkien on the feed.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got an interview lined up for February that I'm excited about.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, a lot of stuff coming this year.
[SPEAKER_05]: Radioactive Ramlings is covering fallout, not weekly, I don't think, but regularly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Almost weekly, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and for subscribers, Brian and I are recording the day after we are recording this, a what you watch in for Death by Lightning, and Death by Lightning was a Netflix show came out at the end of the year, only four episodes, and it is about Andrew Garfields, about his life and well, spoilers.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'll say that it's I'm so excited to talk to Brian about it because as long as I have known him, he's been said like I'm a presidential scholar, especially interested in Andrew Garfield.
[SPEAKER_02]: So very excited to pick his brain.
[SPEAKER_05]: Here's the thing though, is I thought you meant the Spider-Man after Furman.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I remember that, you know, there was a whole president.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe not fun, but a lot of interesting stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And tie nicely into our discussion about kill-to-dage, which is set at the same time basically.
[SPEAKER_05]: very cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, yeah, definitely check out that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everything else on our feeds, like I said, Radio Act of Ramlings covering fallout regularly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Go to their feed in the link tree in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Check out Nevermind the music doing weekly music coverage.
[SPEAKER_05]: Music and psychology crossover.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's in the show notes as well in the link tree.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wolfshift dust got anything going on or Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, just released the full, uh, this year is a Christmas Carol adaptations, uh, episodes, which was, yeah, some really great deep talk, which actually went surprisingly into history.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of different types of history from, like, the great depression to, um, idiomine and Uganda, like, just went all kinds of unexpected places this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And next up is as, uh, we're finally resuming doon.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm excited for both of those things.
[SPEAKER_05]: I haven't listened to your Christmas Carolia, but I'm going to listen to last year.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that was a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, everybody go check that out.
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of good stuff coming this year.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm excited for a lot of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know I'm going to try to get our Star Wars monthly coverage up again, too, with covering the movies, finishing off the original on this show.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Great.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Time for thank yous.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have our Discord server boosters.
[SPEAKER_05]: Aaron K to load the thriller, doves 71, Athena A, Lestu, Nancy M goes to Partition Radio Act, Richard and Adrienne.
[SPEAKER_05]: At least we have a lot of lore masters that are new, and so I'm gonna make you read the list.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to our Loremasters, our highest tier of subscribers that would be Sumash and Michael G. Michelle E. S. C. Peter O'H.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nancy M. Doves 71, Brian 863 Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C. Andrew B. Kwong-Yu, Nathan T. Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Dallie V. Mothership 61.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nars?
[SPEAKER_02]: Cathy W. The stew, Jeffrey B. Elisee U. Ben V. Scott F. Stephen N. Julia F. Callie S. Illmarion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Paul K. Rocky Zim.
[SPEAKER_02]: Jessica A.
[SPEAKER_02]: Red Zippy.
[SPEAKER_02]: The TCS.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dopamine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Catch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eleanor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mrs. Tenant.
[SPEAKER_02]: AC Wilson.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eli W. Cassie K. Chumbaruni.
[SPEAKER_02]: An always last.
[SPEAKER_02]: Audrion.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hooray, we have a lot of gift memberships going on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of Christmas spirit and secret sand is happening in the community.
[SPEAKER_05]: So thank you everyone, especially the secret sand is and the lore masters.
[SPEAKER_05]: We will see you for more covered soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: But not more strange.