[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the lower-hounds podcast, your source for the immaculate infection.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm John.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm David and that was one of the best jokes of the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were really, you know, I think the first episode lacked some of that like really quicky and quick dialogue.
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode had more of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciated that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was in my notes that how funny this episode was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it had a lot of good moments.
[SPEAKER_00]: It had a lot of moments that I'm like, oh, I see exactly where this is going.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what do you think of the episode?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess two, we should just remind folks that we're kind of doing more of a Vibes check, less analysis, more reaction podcasts for the pit series season two.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're expecting deep dives, this ain't it.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is just John and I.
[SPEAKER_02]: having a good time reacting to the episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've only seen it once.
[SPEAKER_02]: Watch the last night.
[SPEAKER_02]: I assume the same for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we call them triage episodes?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like the triage.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing the full treatment.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just figuring out what's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: For the overall vibe check on the episode, it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we were mentioning.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a funny episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the level of what's the right, what's not, I don't know how to describe it, but the confronting the audience with the physical realities of what patients come into the emergency room with is really in your face this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: They showed us a few things last season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just before this season started, I did episode one, and then what was it 15 episodes?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think I watched 14 and 15.
[SPEAKER_02]: So 1114 and 15.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was some, you know, medical stuff, but it wasn't bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just feel
[SPEAKER_02]: They've turned the dial up a couple of notches this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Lots of interpersonal relationship seating, little quips, little comments, little engagements.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was the one doctor who was in the wheelchair that had a little something with Robbie, obviously with Dr. or Nurse Nuel Hastings.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there were some other stuff that was in there,
[SPEAKER_02]: dramatic, you know, building dramatic tension for later on in the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, they're also seeding all of the medical drama for what's to come in the in the season as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, the baby is going to be a big one, you know, carrying through.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it seems like Louie, like I'm really, really nervous for Louie.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really nervous for Whitaker.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see where all that goes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think it was still laying track work, starting to set those characters and those tensions and emotion starting to wind up feature so that at some point the spring's gonna release and then a lot of stuff is gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have some specific thoughts about Dr. Al that I wanna unload on, but otherwise I wanna hear your general takes as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I ask you, did Dr. Al-Hashimi say to call her Dr. Al at some point?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not that not really good etiquette for in general, for these, like, farcee names, because isn't it basically, like, saying, like, Dr. Van for, like, then go in or something like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's, it's like the, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know if it's really like,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very American thing to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I worked at one point with people in Germany and in the German government.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I sent an email one day to an assistant to somebody who worked for a high level government person.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he and I had been working together for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had my boss CCed on the email and I just said, you know, I forget guys name, hey Joe or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: I gave a first name thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: My boss came like five minutes later, my boss came ripping into my office.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was like, that was the wrong thing to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: He did not give you permission to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: you are not on a familiar basis with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a high-government official.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't do that again.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, wow, because as an American, I'm just like, you know, oh, hey, you know, Bob, you know, a gym, you know, whatever, or hey, Mary, you know, we just go on first-name basis.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think for that senior attending resident doctor, Al-Hashimi, would be, if you're a junior, yeah, you would do well to have a little bit of etiquette and not call her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Al.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, but I don't remember in the show if she gave anybody that permission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't remember her doing that, but I could be wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I noticed only, I've only noticed Dr. Robby doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he says right away, call me Dr. Robby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm saying I only noticed him calling her Dr. Al.
[SPEAKER_00]: I maybe I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we, these are, these are vibe check episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, deep dive, we haven't had a chance to rematch or anything, but
[SPEAKER_00]: I also noticed that no one is pronouncing her name correctly, even when they use her full name.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone is saying, Dr. Alha Shimi and she and I didn't even pronounce it right before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the way she pronounced it was Dr. Alha Shimi, which is different, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, yeah, yeah, the emphasis of the salalable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I do think that those are subtle microaggressions that we should take note of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, even if they're not intended to, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's say we've been there for a couple of days, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they can be microaggressions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, anyway, and it's interesting because obviously Dr. Ravi is a shortening of his last name, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It is right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dr.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm casual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but she's clearly not casual.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is clearly by the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: with everything and very like I have to be on the cutting edge of technology as we'll talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that the reason they have Dr. Al as something that she's called at least semi-frequently is this AI thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Al when it's written AI, it's written what lowercase L looks kind of like AI.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where we're going here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little too cute by half.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was some internet conjecture, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: but somebody was like, is she a robot?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, you're Lord, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on, that's not the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, as we can an odd, yeah, certainly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't, don't put that past them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have been spoiled a little bit on...
[SPEAKER_00]: the main crisis of this season because of the trailer like the trailer kind of eludes to what the main crisis of this season is likely to be okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have not I watched the trailer, but I didn't process it at that level.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I mean, should I say it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's implied in the trailer.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a production spoiler.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was sort of, it's sort of around a fourth of July related.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a fourth of July.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's going to be a part of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think it's going to be, say, I don't want to, I would prefer to not.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: All I'm going to say is I think that her whole approach is going to be screwed up very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that both she and Dr. Robbie are going to learn a lot from each other in that experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, which goes into your theory about Robbie's growth trajectory for this season and goes into the helmet and, you know, on the motorcycle and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, can we since we're kind of here and I'm going to pronounce it al-Hashimi for now and if that's incorrect, it's not a micro correction, it's like I'm not sure on the correct pronunciation Dr. Al-Hashimi, I like her character, I like the actor, the portrayal is great.
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing that I'm going to say upset, but I push back on a little bit from the writers and the way that the character is set up, I kind of reject the trope of a competent woman in any field.
[SPEAKER_02]: who is a busy body who looks past the human qualities towards the efficiencies and improving things and that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have Robbie, who's chill and he's a, you know, trust your gut and I believe in my students and all of this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I get the tension, and I'm okay with the tension of having somebody who has mad experience in the ER for many, many years and knows when to intubate and not to intubate or do you know to give certain drugs and not certain drugs to learn whatever it is, get the thing out of the guys throughout.
[SPEAKER_02]: versus, you know, you know, there's somebody who's, yeah, I'd like to make some improvements.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me check it out for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I get that this is dramatic tension, and this is a television show, and you have a certain number of episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just kind of, I'm a little disappointed that the writers went so easily to using a woman character as the busy body.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then setting her in opposition to Robby as the cool heroic character.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just not my favorite setup because I think Dr. Alshimi, Dr. Alshimi, seems to be a very competent doctor and has a very good eye on improving patient outcomes and satisfaction among populations and helping the hospital move along.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are all excellent goals.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if there's a couple of tools that need to be used or whatever integrating those and learning the way that things work here and like, hey, you know, gentle pushing gentle nudging forward or whatever the strategies are, I just kind of just kind of rubs me wrong a little bit that they're setting up a competent woman character into this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But potential position to fail against Robby's folksy medicine, you know, oh, shucks kind of guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to... That's my rant.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am going to, I see, I see a rant and I meet it with something, which is, I'm going to reserve judgment on that because I do think that what they're doing is they're going to make us very frustrated with Dr. Alhashimi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are going to give her an arc that makes us perhaps like her better than Robbie, but I could see that that would be the hand of the writer is definitely present there I could see that there's that and there's also I think I disagree with some of your characterization because okay, she is you know, she is really like
[SPEAKER_00]: about, you know, you know, let's, let's incorporate the AI, let's do this, let's do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me shadow you on all your cases instead of even that word that is used, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's a word, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as connotations, and well, I, I, I, I, I use it gender neutrally.
[SPEAKER_00]: I meant many uppity men do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, since we've straight into this territory of tropes and gender norms and things like that, I see we're being intentional.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I'm saying is I actually think that she is
[SPEAKER_00]: more empathetic than you're implying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because she, no, no, I'm saying the character is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the trope that I'm, I getcha.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying like Dr. Robby is very mission-oriented.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he, he has his big moments with the patient's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has his big connection moments.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like season one with the, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: the sort of ritual around death and passing that was so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got like my eyes out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, he does have those big moments.
[SPEAKER_00]: But his patients at his faction scores are abysmaly low.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think part of that is he is he is really good at the you know small intimate moments with people.
[SPEAKER_00]: when he has the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he doesn't know how to do that on a global scale.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Dr. Alhashimi is perhaps better going to be better at making the patient feel seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... in the in the in the general treatment sure that sports is an evidence of that sort of thing like no right to expect and how long it might take right robby is very good at like in tragic moments being there for someone but i don't think he's actually very much there in the normal administration right yeah i mean he you see him he he walks away the minute he the his interns have it under control
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And from an efficiency of treatment standpoint, that's probably right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But from a patient satisfaction, having the doctor run out the minute that you're not in crisis might not feel great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think that Dr. Alhashimi probably does a better job of the moment to moment empathy and patient satisfaction aspect, whereas he does better
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the opening scene with the baby, the cliffhanger from our 78 to 89.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot, there was a lot of speculation too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is she about to have a seizure?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did she see, is it a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not you already think right because it's it's just such a sudden twist out of nowhere that would be like all right We're you know, this is not for real.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good one Whereas this show is much better at being grounded in like the twist makes sense and they build Over the course of the season right over the course of the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think I think for her in that moment, I thought I saw some tears in her eye or she was very reclaimed and she was just trying to be in that moment with her emotional response.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, knowing that, hey, as a human being, I'm feeling something right now and as a doctor and a senior medical person on this floor,
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to keep that in balance and I need to keep that in check a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I felt I kind of read the end of that was her just trying to get that moment of clarity saying, yeah, I'm feeling, I'm feeling something.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I need to stay focused at being a doctor here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was my interpretation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think, I think that's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that's about fun, Dr. Elhash.
[SPEAKER_00]: You may just have to see more from her and more from Robby on their intersection because I do think, I do think that this is gonna be like, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be, we're gonna be rooting for her and being like, Robby, get the fuck on your motor cycle and get out of here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do TFL.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the end of the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you finish your hot take for the episode overall?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I thought it was a set of episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said to you before this, I was like, I don't think there's actually a lot to talk about this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's, there's stuff with, there's stuff with Mel, like again, it's all set up like Mel obviously had her flirty moment and she's nervous about her Mel practice suit and then she has that intersection with Linden and Linden, of course, being really
[SPEAKER_02]: They protective of her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he is especially mentor mentee relationship friend and in at a level of friendship too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah As well as senior to junior doctors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also appreciated that he and I don't think it was an overprotective thing I think it was he noticed patterns with her last season where she needs to take a beat after a shot Yeah, he turned on today and he said okay Last emulation go sit for ten minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just ten minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just go
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: He really had a different thing this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say there's a lot of speculation online as to whether he got divorced.
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not have a ring on when he came into the...
[SPEAKER_00]: building and when he wanted to his locker and then he was wearing one once he was in treatment mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: So some people are speculating he's putting on the ring so that people don't ask questions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: That could be not weird normally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bright.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's not wearing his kids bracelet either.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: People are, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's the benefit of of close watching.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That do that with this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did notice.
[SPEAKER_02]: that he covered his badge in a weird way when he was talking to Joadie and it wasn't Santos.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who was there, I can't remember who, but anyway, he said, oh, and somebody was like, oh, and Whitaker, maybe it was Whitaker, because Whitaker is actually,
[SPEAKER_02]: stepped up to being a good to be called doctor and joity still in in progress to body joody thank you he the way that he crossed his arms and he what it looked like to me intentionally cut his identification badge and I replayed it really quickly which says you know in green green and white doctor and he covered it over in a really weird way and I was like what
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if it's going to be like no pharmacy access or something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you get demoted as a doctor like in a military rank like I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone right in, someone right in who knows about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please, we know we have medical professionals in our in our listener audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to add with Langdon to and the male conversation, I just, they're really playing my heartstrings with Langdon disease and so far, and he's trying to do the work of, you know, being going through recovery and doing the, all of the social repairing, and it's really moving right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he is making a genuine attempt to make things right, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Robby is still being a dick to him, obviously, um, to show up at this time, avoiding him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: San dos is avoiding him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't blame her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I too would for your retaliation at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that they're going to like come together by the end of the, the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think she and she and
[SPEAKER_02]: I got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to apologize to her for giving her a hard time and I think he's going to thank her for saying like and be like, thank you for making me get help.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she was kind of a
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it wasn't clean necessarily, but she did him into a position where he needed to, which was into recovery, and to legally and ethically and personally take care of the things that he needed to take care of.
[SPEAKER_02]: And without Santos, he wouldn't be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the pathway was very human.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we could say very messy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair, I think that Whitaker, I have no idea where they're going with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just gonna say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea where they're going with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: He seems in a really safe place right now, which means someone terrible is going to happen in the next segment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been really well, which means...
[SPEAKER_00]: Santos, I think, has a little bit of growing up to do externally, but has grown a lot internally.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like she's not jumping the gun as much as terms of treatment.
[SPEAKER_00]: She does though, still need to, you know, check all her boxes on like suspicions on people, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to make sure that she's doing a good
[SPEAKER_00]: Do it all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And with that child who has the the chinlaceration and the worry about some abuse child abuse situation going on there, you really feel her stepping up and stepping into making sure that this kid is okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if there's a problem and she's going to lean into assuming that there's a problem until proven wrong, but that's that sort of fierce advocate that sometimes you want in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, looking after kids in these complex situations.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I was kind of admiring her this episode for rather than because she didn't she get offered a couple of exciting cases and she's like, no, I got to take care of this kid.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that really spoke about your right character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is growth and I think she's growing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone, someone who, yeah, she is funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you imagine the infection killed me so good to butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, anyway, someone who I do think needs a growth arc of this season is Javadi.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, you know, like I just feel like she is second to Robbie, she feels the most unchanged from last season and I just
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, she needs an arc where she learns that like being book smart is not the end all be all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what they did with a givey, all givey, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ogilvy is he's going to be her foil.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be the know it all that she realizes she doesn't want to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one who is brown-nosing and is, you know, constantly trying to recite from textbooks instead of truly actual problem in front of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I mean, like, the way she talked to Santos, like, San, it looks Santos has been mean to her, so I don't blame her for having a little bit of a chip on our shoulder with Santos, but like,
[SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, oh, because you're a genius.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, you know, I'll just say this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I don't want to be like old man on Hill yelling, but like, there is a reason that we like.
[SPEAKER_00]: to have some experience, a life experience with a lot of these kinds of professions which is that like it takes a while to get good at being interpersonal with people right even if you are extremely book smart it is your age does matter your your young age does matter in the sense that you haven't not met a lot of people from different walks of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the ER is, I think, a speed run to meeting people from all walks of life and to developing your interpersonal relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm almost surprised, maybe this is the fault of the writers, that she has not grown more since last season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe we will see growth shine in this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they said we just want to do that on camera.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why they didn't have a grow a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would have liked to see a little bit of development from the writing there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and she's sort of in the the stuck in the shadow character the shadow of her mother, which we saw last episode as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, yeah, that I think that's a good assessment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she really hasn't where we seen both Santos and Whitaker develop in terms of their confidence in the ER and leading other interns and taking on more and more complex cases.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: right and plus she probably let a pretty isolated life like if you're going to college a 13 you can't go to any of the social events.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're not going to be able to make friends really with the 18 to 25 year olds.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have any friends from your own age bracket because you're not going to school anymore and you have dedicated a lot of your time to study.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that she's not had a lot of opportunities to develop these skills of, you know, and so I do think and to be able to dish back on Santos as much as Santa.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, you know, and her, where Santos comes from a really poli social world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Didn't she say she had a lot of brothers or something like that?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so maybe yeah, there was the, I get that sense anyway, or just yeah, she's had different challenges in life.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so she,
[SPEAKER_02]: Santa's leans in and finds humor and you ribby each other and that's kind of how you show affection where Javadi had the opposite of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's very thin skin and yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I Anyway, I don't want to like bash her too much because I do think it's more the writing she's great character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there was that yeah, it presents a lot of interesting problems and I do think that she has chance to be a really good doctor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just that she has to go through an arc
[SPEAKER_00]: Similar to San Jose already gone through a bit of an arc, and I think probably could use more growth and would occur definitely went through an arc I mean since last season although I'm sure that the cracks are gonna start to show on that we already had him missing something In the possible things to look at right right about the blood although you're like okay, but we don't see it right so why would I mention it?
[SPEAKER_02]: In Huckleberry is kind of a less-quality nickname as opposed to crash.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty high octane.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty good stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd keep crash.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would keep crash.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's speaking of the junior staff and the interns, I'm really getting confused with what
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a little bit distressed that they're, you know, putting a young Asian woman into this sort of very disaffected socially and sort of sardonic on the phone, whatever to be in a your own and rotation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know what her interest is and what her ultimate specialties are going to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just question what they are doing with this role and with this actor and I don't understand it yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand the disaffected youth thing right and on the phone and whatever, but you can't be a doctor, well yes, you can be a doctor that doesn't have empathy, but that's maybe I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't know what to deal with her.
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just haven't seen her enough yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I didn't even bring her out, but I just haven't nothing much to say about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a few doctors, backparder, the Somersault, I thought McCay was kind of backparder
[SPEAKER_02]: I am interested in what's going on with Noel Hastings, the nurse, the bed, oh I forget what it there, she's basically looking out for making sure patients are in the bed for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, an interesting, you know, point of, well, we have to move this guy who's probably going to have to go through pain to move, just because his insurance won't pay for this hospital.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, this is something that the Europeans shall never understand, but, um, yes, you will sometimes have to move hospitals if your insurance is not going to cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'd read that hospital.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was surprised.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who is the doctor on the end of that?
[SPEAKER_02]: That was objecting to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that ch- Um, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, okay, okay, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, that, that she hadn't experienced or known that before.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess that was a little bit of exposition showing through the thing, like that's a set-up for us, not a set-up for McKay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think part of it is,
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, doctors can play the game with insurance, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They can go.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just not stable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're going to treat him here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, but then that creates a huge headache for the patient to try to get that proved as an emergency bill that they couldn't afford.
[SPEAKER_00]: That they couldn't avoid things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's there's plenty of laws that
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, help you navigate that, but you have to really know what you're doing for that and so I think this is almost a Robbie not I don't think it's Robbie trying to like avoid taking care of the patient with the hospital I think it's Robbie trying to help the patient in the long term right financially and it's unfortunate that they that he even has to consider that we treatment.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should just be give the treatment that you need where you are right
[SPEAKER_00]: but it is what it is, that's our system.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's part of what this show is about is exposing us to the viewers to some of the realities of the modern healthcare delivery system.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have some of the best healthcare when you can get it to the right people in the right way.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have, you know, we can have
[SPEAKER_02]: When healthcare is delivered effectively and efficiently, we get great outcomes, but our outcomes are ruined because of business, because of monetizing, I'm trying not to get too much on my soapbox here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's a danger of monetizing, you know, profitizing, profitiering, I should say, of people's health.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a whole issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let me not soapbox too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how can you afford the maggots without?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you you had do you had to know that that was coming?
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew something like that was coming I knew I knew whatever was under there was going to be disgusting Yeah, yeah, um, but you know what back it's have been a valid treatment for infected it's Drunes like that is a real thing like they they clean the wound the the necrotic flesh in the very effective way Yeah, better than a braiding or or little scalpel work or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, we knew that it was coming though
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, um, I will, I will also say you mentioned the gore of this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I, I looked away with the, the, the arm and dislocation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dislocation, dislocation, just powder dislocation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we kidding?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I looked away and then the sound still made me feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I gagged so hard that my wife started cracking up next to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was just laughing at me while I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: the sound got me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wasn't even watching it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of this show where I closed my eyes for a second, but usually the sound I can deal with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not with that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it chose you to the the physicality of this kind of care to technique.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to reset a bone.
[SPEAKER_02]: You think of all that muscle and ligament that needs to hold.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll have to talk for there about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: stop talking about other things though I mean in in many ways it was a very arousing episode oh yeah we um i mean somebody was aroused what's it mean oh man but i i was like oh okay well you know they'll keep the camera level and then they didn't and i was like oh i mean you know it was like it was a prosthetic but yeah that was you know but you know what like episode i'm sorry i'm sort of
[SPEAKER_02]: At a metal level, I was okay in the sense of we see all kinds of other anatomy of especially female bodies on screen gratuitous use of brasts and and behinds and things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this HBO, we're human beings.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a medical setting.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a medical show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, why not show it, but you know, big old salute to flag boner, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's that is the reality of the of that situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not shine away.
[SPEAKER_02]: The camera's not shine away in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think if they had kept the camera level so that, you know, just above, so that we never saw that.
[SPEAKER_02]: there would have been a little bit of diminishment of the show because they've shown us the bigger quivering bag of worms and you know other things and I felt that it was not I didn't feel like it was out of line.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would just caught me surprising because we don't see that kind of thing you don't see boners on a lot of movies and TV show.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the medical term right boners.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I love that they were using medical terms.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forget what they were, but they were being very pre-asmume.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, very funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, guys seems like it's going to be fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can laugh about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: did not look like fun and it's not gratuitous David they've been approved this is not gratuitous newly no it's not it is it is in line I think with everything else so that's fine that's fine what do you you know we I don't want to get into too deep of a I don't know how far we're in a slide into the AI thing of it all oh that's going to be a disaster by the end of season especially because she's talking about never having been sued for malpractice oh she's right she's about to get so bad
[SPEAKER_00]: That would such a del, let's check off's malpractice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, man, really.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, and I, there's a, there's a functional level where, okay, yeah, that's cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a, it's an administrative administrative tool.
[SPEAKER_02]: that could speed things up because there is a lot of friction in the system around data entry, data management.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet the technologies to deploy that in a busy emergency room where you don't have time, because they said, oh, she's like, well, you must check very carefully.
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, when the ambulance is start rolling in, you may have said something on the new, to go back to check that record.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know that's I don't know that this is the appropriate setting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a setting a potential setting for that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so, but not in one of the busys emergency rooms, you know, you just don't roll out new.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they would never roll out a machine to shock heart or anything like that that hadn't gone through extensive trials.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's her first day like chill lady, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of this is a little unbelievable because I think that the first day anybody goes to a job, they are just going to like see what, you know, assess the situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what you would help.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, look, I'm sure there's people who are go-getters, but this doctor seems like she has a good head on our shoulders and you know, wait till day two to introduce your AI app, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what the situation is at this hospital and then and then go for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, maybe we'll be told off-screen that she already did like a tour of the of the pit
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's good strategic planning, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that you, you can come up with an ideal scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you do your ground truth thing, and you observe, and then you can see the gap between the ideal state and the current state, and then you can map your pathway to the ideal state, assuming that that's still the, or, you know, adjust your ideal state and then move towards it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just, yeah, instituting wholesale changes,
[SPEAKER_02]: at this level, or that's pretty across three shifts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would guess day swing and night shift.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a whole bunch of process management stuff in here that just sort of makes my head scratch.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's drama.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's a concede for the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything else?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you say, like, there is a misademic trope of like the go-getter woman getting shut down and I don't want to fall into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I think that the show is going to subvert that eventually.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope so, because I would like to see Dr. Alhashimi succeed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I was a person and as a character.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we are going to be cheering for Dr. Alhashimi by the end of season.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she has to get through.
[SPEAKER_02]: She has to navigate her AI debacle, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think she's going to learn a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Rob is going to learn a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think all the people are going to learn a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to point out one thing before we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you have much else, but not really just little tiny things, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mel talked to a police officer named Officer Underhill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is Frodo's fake name from the Lord of the Rings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said she liked the rent fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: And well, but I'm wondering, is anyone actually named underhill or is the officer not an officer?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that, well, well, that's a weird, that would be a weird twist for the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: What if what if the kid was actually kid, you know, the grown man that she was treating and that knocked into her?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if he wasn't a criminal?
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's actually being targeted by an undercover fake cop, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not the kind of show, but maybe under Hill was just a fun little thing that they put in, but I'm very Yeah, like you said it's very early in the season, but if anybody
[SPEAKER_02]: hurt smell, you know, there's there's a whole internet already did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, I think there are people on our discord, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, okay, I'm standing up here for Mal and if anybody messes with with my girl, I'm gonna with my with my friend here, I'm gonna, you know, go for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So so I'm very nervous for what happens with now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope she can get back in her groove.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything else you got?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a week, a week is a long, it's hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh, I want to watch the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's good television.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we got a long run.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think doing these vibe check episodes, especially with neither seven kingdoms coming up, I think, does our help us with our sort of sanity a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we don't have to put a lot of load time into it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I'm just looking forward to the next episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, David, it's time for us to say goodbye.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you all next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Real quick, outro, don't forget about the night of the seven kingdoms coverage that we're doing with probably Howard.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got plenty going on in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be doing the main podcast on this feed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the House of the Dragon feed, or now the night of the seven kingdoms feed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then the feedback and the instantics are all going to be on properly Howard only.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we also have at least Oscars coverage coming up.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be a big one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, so you already released, I think, a bathtub episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: So plenty of content going on if you're into the award season.
[SPEAKER_00]: On, um, our other feeds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, probably Howard's going to be covering a night of the seven kingdoms with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we are going to hear more firm radioactive ramlings on fallout.
[SPEAKER_00]: And never run the music house weekly coverage of music.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they did shaggy this past week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on great song.
[SPEAKER_00]: So go check out all of that for now
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do some thank you's David.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sounds good.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's great to read those names and just think back about all the years that they said there's some folks on here who have been with this since the beginning.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you everyone and all check the link in the show note.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a link tree has links to all of the affiliates and the discord server and to our subscription pages.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, John.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, David, and we will see you for the next hour of our shift next week.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Laura Hounds podcast is produced and published by the Laura Hounds.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening.