WEBVTT 00:02.714 --> 00:05.038 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Megan, and I'm Sarah. 00:05.058 --> 00:10.166 [SPEAKER_01]: We're two women in our 40s who live in different states and have a lot of different interests between us. 00:10.947 --> 00:16.216 [SPEAKER_00]: On this show, we talk about all the midlife lady leisure pursuits we're enjoying at this stage of life. 00:16.656 --> 00:20.723 [SPEAKER_00]: Like travel, hobbies, food, wellness, style, and more. 00:21.209 --> 00:38.390 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Megan, I'm excited today to chat about the concept of leisure more generally because, you know, it is in the title of our podcast, but we realize as we develop episode ideas, we have a lot of kind of nuanced thoughts about what the concept of leisure actually means. 00:39.071 --> 00:41.473 [SPEAKER_00]: You and me overthinking something, Sarah? 00:41.493 --> 00:42.795 [SPEAKER_00]: No, never. 00:42.775 --> 00:49.263 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, today's episode is brought to you by our exclusive season sponsor and a long-time partner, Fionic Shoes. 00:49.864 --> 00:53.288 [SPEAKER_00]: I have been living in the redding ankle boots I got this season. 00:53.488 --> 00:59.055 [SPEAKER_00]: They are every bit as comfortable, supportive, and stable as I've come to expect with all of Vionic's footwear. 00:59.115 --> 01:03.361 [SPEAKER_00]: They go with everything and they keep my feet happy and warm on chili days. 01:03.961 --> 01:08.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Use the promo code midlife at vionicshoes.com for 15% off. 01:08.527 --> 01:13.816 [SPEAKER_00]: And also make sure to check out the special page we've set up where you can see some of our favorite vionic styles. 01:14.196 --> 01:16.300 [SPEAKER_00]: You can look for that in the show notes for this episode. 01:17.301 --> 01:22.129 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, thank you so much to vionic for sponsoring this episode and let's get into it, Megan. 01:22.450 --> 01:33.548 [SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking maybe we should give a little backstory on how we named this podcast and what we actually meant when we were kind of joking about our own midlife lady leisure pursuits. 01:33.668 --> 01:35.631 [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you remember about this? 01:35.813 --> 01:38.738 [SPEAKER_00]: Well Sarah, you're asking me to remember back like two years. 01:39.059 --> 01:41.042 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a lofty goal here. 01:41.062 --> 01:41.864 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna try my best. 01:42.625 --> 01:52.422 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we kept mentioning it when we were doing the mom hour, when we would be talking about things that felt like 01:52.402 --> 01:56.207 [SPEAKER_00]: Persuits, we couldn't have done when we were younger moms, let's say. 01:56.688 --> 02:01.475 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe when we didn't have the time or the attention or maybe we just weren't interested in them. 02:01.775 --> 02:02.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 02:02.276 --> 02:09.006 [SPEAKER_00]: And it became kind of like a running joke that like gardening is a midlife lady leisure pursuit or breeding dogs. 02:09.406 --> 02:11.249 [SPEAKER_00]: Not that you either you are either doing that. 02:11.289 --> 02:15.675 [SPEAKER_00]: But yo, they're just certain things that are sort of cliched and they're clichés for a reason. 02:16.027 --> 02:18.109 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's similar to what I remember. 02:18.209 --> 02:34.186 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually remember us outside of the mom or just in our personal friendship, like sending photos back and forth of your chickens, you would send me or I would send you a picture, something growing in my yard or like some plants I had potted. 02:34.586 --> 02:40.212 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was almost like we were getting a kick out of ourselves of how kind of I'm just gonna say, 02:40.192 --> 03:03.707 [SPEAKER_01]: old ladyish we were we were becoming in our like I made a pot of beans today you know and I think then somewhere along the line we coined that phrase that these were our midlife lady leisure pursuits and then later that did become the idea for this here little podcast but I thought that would be kind of fun to see what what we each remember. 03:04.308 --> 03:07.212 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember feeling like this is so silly 03:07.192 --> 03:23.649 [SPEAKER_01]: That in the past we would have been talking about work or our kids and then all of a sudden it was chickens and not all of a sudden But chickens and she and it is yes, it didn't feel like it escalated very quickly But I think our lives change really quickly. 03:23.769 --> 03:30.176 [SPEAKER_00]: You know that does kind of happen when your kids get older and You kind of fall out over a cliff at the 40 or something. 03:30.196 --> 03:33.199 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's slick suddenly things I didn't 03:33.179 --> 03:37.944 [SPEAKER_00]: really care about before, or maybe things that I thought, I'll want to do that way down the road. 03:38.144 --> 03:39.906 [SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden, there you are, you're down the road. 03:40.186 --> 03:43.450 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's real, the road is nice. 03:44.110 --> 03:58.866 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, do you think, so now we've had this show, I think we've had 18 episodes so far, now that we are actually tasked with the idea of coming up with topic areas and creating content for this podcast about, 03:58.846 --> 03:59.487 [SPEAKER_01]: leisure. 03:59.547 --> 04:05.538 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that definition has changed for you at all or the way you think about like what counts as leisure? 04:06.459 --> 04:07.521 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's a really good question. 04:07.581 --> 04:08.523 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to answer it. 04:09.365 --> 04:10.747 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give two different answers. 04:11.428 --> 04:17.479 [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing about this show that's been very surprising to me is how easy it is to come up with content. 04:17.459 --> 04:29.034 [SPEAKER_00]: My life doesn't feel like it has space for that much leisure, but we've talked now about 18 different leisure pursuits, and I don't think we'd have a hard time coming up with 18 more episode ideas. 04:29.114 --> 04:31.337 [SPEAKER_00]: Like tomorrow, if we had to. 04:31.357 --> 04:41.130 [SPEAKER_00]: So there does seem to, there's a wellspring of leisurely or leisure adjacent or however you want to define it, stuff to talk about. 04:41.571 --> 04:44.074 [SPEAKER_00]: But what that does bring me to is the question, 04:44.594 --> 04:52.610 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this whole episode's about what is leisure because sometimes work can feel like leisure or sometimes leisure can kind of feel like work. 04:52.990 --> 05:00.645 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, a lot of what I do that's creative and fun is also requires a lot of effort. 05:00.705 --> 05:02.569 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes requires learning. 05:02.549 --> 05:05.576 [SPEAKER_00]: And then sometimes work can feel really leisurely. 05:05.776 --> 05:20.628 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the middle right now of planning a book festival that's happening at our my family's market, up in the UP at the end of February, and it has been so much work, but it all feels kind of like play. 05:20.648 --> 05:22.853 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 05:23.373 --> 05:23.754 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 05:23.774 --> 05:25.036 [SPEAKER_00]: It also feels kind of optional. 05:25.076 --> 05:26.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't have to do it. 05:26.698 --> 05:29.603 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe next year I'll feel like I have to do it because now I've set a precedent. 05:29.623 --> 05:30.424 [SPEAKER_00]: It becomes work. 05:30.744 --> 05:33.589 [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe the reason it feels like play this year is because I'm choosing. 05:33.649 --> 05:34.250 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know. 05:34.290 --> 05:35.872 [SPEAKER_00]: Or yeah, choosing how to do it. 05:35.953 --> 05:38.296 [SPEAKER_00]: It does, it's work that feels like play. 05:38.477 --> 05:39.378 [SPEAKER_00]: And that feels like leisure. 05:39.738 --> 05:40.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 05:40.079 --> 05:51.917 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well actually one of the ways this episode today came up is we were brainstorming topics and you said I kind of want to talk something about work and then you kind of laughed at yourself like, but yeah, this is a show about leisure. 05:52.378 --> 06:04.416 [SPEAKER_01]: How do those two things even like, where do they meet but I think you just you just said it it's when when there's choice involved and when it feels like play when you're in that flow state. 06:04.396 --> 06:07.960 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, because I've been thinking about this all week as we've been getting ready to record. 06:08.020 --> 06:16.551 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the thing I keep coming back to for like what defines leisure is kind of freedom of choice and that sounds so lofty. 06:16.691 --> 06:20.515 [SPEAKER_01]: But we just we live in this hustle culture. 06:20.555 --> 06:22.678 [SPEAKER_01]: We live in a capitalist society. 06:22.758 --> 06:28.545 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of demands on for our attention that aren't necessarily within our control. 06:28.605 --> 06:34.352 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even if you pick up your phone and scroll, like, 06:34.332 --> 06:36.395 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know what I mean? 06:36.875 --> 06:54.419 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's increasingly rare that we have opportunity to sort of follow like a little kid would to follow a spark, whether that's literally wandering down a path on a walk that you weren't planning on going on or starting a new craft or art project or starting a business. 06:54.459 --> 07:01.048 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, that's where like even work can be in this place of 07:01.028 --> 07:09.672 [SPEAKER_01]: sort of following that little child voice that is just curious about something or wants to play. 07:09.692 --> 07:10.053 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, to play. 07:10.174 --> 07:10.515 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:10.535 --> 07:11.016 [SPEAKER_00]: And the play. 07:11.036 --> 07:14.245 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you think about... For children. 07:14.410 --> 07:19.676 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, if that you watch them play and what they're doing is mimicking us working a lot of the time. 07:19.696 --> 07:19.796 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:19.916 --> 07:23.100 [SPEAKER_00]: So for them play and work are all very tangled up. 07:23.120 --> 07:26.964 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's also really interesting to look at the concept of leisure through time. 07:27.625 --> 07:28.526 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I was just kidding. 07:28.586 --> 07:29.006 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:29.026 --> 07:29.207 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 07:29.988 --> 07:33.111 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, yeah, we didn't really outdo a whole lot of outlining on this one. 07:33.151 --> 07:36.895 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is very off the cuff, but I've been thinking about like the leisure class. 07:37.015 --> 07:42.882 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, I know you and I both like to watch period films and read period books. 07:42.862 --> 07:54.794 [SPEAKER_00]: There really was, um, throughout time kind of, you know, starting with the Industrial Revolution, this idea that you would have free time for leisure. 07:54.894 --> 08:02.101 [SPEAKER_00]: That was, I don't think really that much of a thing before that, which isn't to say people didn't still have leisurely times. 08:02.241 --> 08:03.663 [SPEAKER_00]: It just wasn't really recognized. 08:03.743 --> 08:05.565 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think quite so much is a thing. 08:05.585 --> 08:07.907 [SPEAKER_00]: That had its own set of like, 08:07.887 --> 08:09.750 [SPEAKER_00]: clothing and products. 08:10.170 --> 08:12.915 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, like picnicking is leisure, for example. 08:12.975 --> 08:13.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 08:13.676 --> 08:20.847 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, during the Victorian times, at least in maybe even before that, almost had like an aesthetic that went with it. 08:21.187 --> 08:23.991 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, you had to have like baskets for picnicking. 08:24.011 --> 08:27.837 [SPEAKER_00]: And like it became like a thing on a much more... 08:27.817 --> 08:35.488 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess organized in a more organized way than maybe eating outside would have been before that. 08:35.648 --> 08:39.313 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just wondering how much that plays in. 08:39.333 --> 08:40.154 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a historian. 08:40.174 --> 08:44.260 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't something that I've studied in depth. 08:44.561 --> 08:50.449 [SPEAKER_00]: But the idea also that gardening could be something that was a leisure activity. 08:50.648 --> 08:53.692 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, at one point gardening was what you did to stay alive, right? 08:53.812 --> 08:57.697 [SPEAKER_00]: So when it turned into something that was, it became like a real class thing. 08:57.917 --> 08:59.219 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, um, yeah. 08:59.479 --> 09:00.561 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's interesting too. 09:00.581 --> 09:01.582 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the leisure class. 09:01.862 --> 09:03.605 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's really interesting. 09:04.025 --> 09:11.935 [SPEAKER_01]: And then where we are today, which is I do think that we still have some hangups about, yes, productivity and time. 09:12.296 --> 09:19.525 [SPEAKER_01]: And as much as you and I are out here trying to beat the drum, 09:19.505 --> 09:43.858 [SPEAKER_01]: In our culture, socialized, to be really uncomfortable with wide open spaces of time, and either means we're not contributing to society, we're not doing enough, we're not making enough, we're not hustling hard enough, and so that's something I'm really grateful for this show about is the continual reminder that there is value in 09:43.838 --> 09:52.977 [SPEAKER_01]: cultivating pursuits that don't have a monetary or like an immediate direct productivity output. 09:52.997 --> 10:01.214 [SPEAKER_01]: And then just like you said, there's plenty that are kind of weaving in and out of because they also are productive or maybe they are also involved with your work. 10:01.234 --> 10:04.260 [SPEAKER_01]: But that it's okay. 10:04.240 --> 10:06.263 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we've done episodes on taking naps. 10:06.503 --> 10:08.445 [SPEAKER_01]: We've done episodes on watching TV. 10:08.886 --> 10:11.089 [SPEAKER_01]: We've done episodes on going for walks. 10:11.149 --> 10:12.490 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, these are pretty rare. 10:12.751 --> 10:17.737 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pretty radical declaration that these things have equal value. 10:18.518 --> 10:22.984 [SPEAKER_01]: And everybody gets to design their own way of how that fits into your life. 10:23.865 --> 10:27.229 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't all have unlimited choices about how we spend our time. 10:27.269 --> 10:33.657 [SPEAKER_00]: But many of us have some choices about how we spend our time. 10:34.700 --> 10:46.549 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, or in a social class, let's, I mean, I would say almost probably almost nobody listening to this as a member of the aristocracy, but let's, like, just as a crazy guess, um, 10:47.137 --> 11:00.515 [SPEAKER_00]: where almost leisure is seen would be seen in that side as like a value, but like a virtue, almost being not having to work if you were part of that class. 11:01.016 --> 11:09.027 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like when Violet Crawley, down to the abbey, the dowager said, what's he as a weekend? 11:09.614 --> 11:14.403 [SPEAKER_00]: because she didn't know what a weekend was, because what use would she have had for a weekend? 11:14.663 --> 11:15.364 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right. 11:15.384 --> 11:21.415 [SPEAKER_00]: She didn't work, you know, and not, and which isn't to say her life was all leisurely either, which is I think also a very interesting. 11:21.435 --> 11:31.052 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you watch a show like Downton Abbey, the people who don't work for a living are still busy doing stuff that they feel they must do. 11:31.072 --> 11:34.118 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just not classified as work. 11:34.138 --> 11:34.238 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 11:35.095 --> 11:53.205 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about the difference between leisure and hobbies and certainly there's overlap or maybe hobbies almost fit like as a subcategory under leisure, but how do those two words just what do you think of when you think of the difference or the overlap between those two words. 11:53.354 --> 11:57.438 [SPEAKER_00]: I really had to think about this because at first I was like, well, they're kind of the same, right? 11:57.798 --> 12:01.181 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for me, first of all, I don't love the word hobbies. 12:01.261 --> 12:02.042 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to be honest. 12:02.182 --> 12:07.026 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds cutesy, like, look at your little hobby and I think sometimes it can be used. 12:07.387 --> 12:08.227 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good point. 12:08.247 --> 12:17.276 [SPEAKER_00]: Shoot, denigrate or, you know, lesson, artistic pursuits and creative pursuits. 12:17.596 --> 12:23.361 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I know it's just a word and I'm not judging your use of it, but I think it can 12:23.341 --> 12:35.277 [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes in like a demeaning way or to make less than something, but the way I would really look at a hobby is that there's like an implication that it's organized and maybe productive. 12:36.358 --> 12:51.238 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I might think of crafting or collecting stamps or going to a painting class or something like that where there's like an established way to do it or supplies you can buy or a club you 12:51.218 --> 12:57.263 [SPEAKER_00]: and leisure could be like laying on the ground under a tree watching ants. 12:57.784 --> 13:03.609 [SPEAKER_00]: Something that's so undefined that there's no club, you don't need to buy anything, you don't have to dress a certain way. 13:04.390 --> 13:09.254 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just like what comes to mind, but you know, that's just my knee jerk reaction, I'm curious what you think. 13:09.755 --> 13:11.256 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm similar. 13:11.276 --> 13:21.225 [SPEAKER_01]: I kept thinking about hobbies, not necessarily in terms of 13:22.117 --> 13:22.919 [SPEAKER_01]: get better at. 13:22.999 --> 13:24.161 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I kept coming back to. 13:24.181 --> 13:32.760 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you, yeah, stamp collecting or photography would be something, a practice. 13:32.820 --> 13:34.844 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, yoga is a practice. 13:35.826 --> 13:38.472 [SPEAKER_01]: I also think hobbies like you said often. 13:38.452 --> 13:46.790 [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier to build community and find like-minded souls around a particular hobby, which I think makes them quite valuable. 13:46.850 --> 13:54.587 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's another thing in our society that I think people are starting to realize we're lacking and start to look for. 13:54.567 --> 14:02.057 [SPEAKER_01]: ways to be in a book club or join a gardening club or travel with a group of like-minded people who like to read plaques for example. 14:02.117 --> 14:05.281 [SPEAKER_01]: So I definitely think there's overlap. 14:05.421 --> 14:10.248 [SPEAKER_01]: I almost to me, it feels like hobbies are a subcategory of leisure. 14:10.328 --> 14:19.039 [SPEAKER_01]: If leisure is the freedom to choose how we spend our time and the rejection of the idea that our time must be 14:19.019 --> 14:28.390 [SPEAKER_01]: productive or productive at all times, then I feel like hobbies are one way to fill your leisure time. 14:28.590 --> 14:40.505 [SPEAKER_01]: What I don't like, it's really interesting that you said sometimes hobby is are used like pejoratively or like to sort of, um, that's been in my, you know, um, I, that's a such a good point that I hadn't thought of. 14:40.725 --> 14:44.149 [SPEAKER_01]: I also think it's sometimes 14:44.669 --> 15:08.500 [SPEAKER_01]: There's pressure to have hobbies that I think we would benefit from expanding to just more talking about seeking joy and rest and leisure because maybe not everybody who would benefit from leisure is is a hobby type person and I think I identify a little bit that way there certainly things I've dabbled in but I feel much better seeking. 15:08.480 --> 15:12.245 [SPEAKER_01]: Rest and leisure and like I don't know. 15:12.285 --> 15:27.103 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess just balance of time Then I do going all in on a hobby because that almost does start to feel like an obligation or like creates a picture Yeah, and my own perfectionistic tendencies like okay now I got to I want to do this right. 15:27.183 --> 15:28.385 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to get the right supplies. 15:28.445 --> 15:35.854 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to go to the right sewing store and it can So anyway, that's that's just a little bit how about about how it works in my brain 15:36.172 --> 15:43.280 [SPEAKER_00]: Leisure feels almost to me like a state of mind or a posture you're bringing to something. 15:43.460 --> 15:51.169 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I can go, I can work in a leisurely manner, which doesn't mean I always do. 15:51.850 --> 15:56.956 [SPEAKER_00]: But I can look at paid work and I can look at it and say, well, there's no rush. 15:57.837 --> 15:59.419 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get to this when I get to it. 15:59.879 --> 16:04.845 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to organize my life in a way that prioritizes leisure. 16:04.825 --> 16:11.272 [SPEAKER_00]: even as it incorporates paid or necessary work, and I put those are two. 16:11.633 --> 16:13.515 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's all, it's work if it's necessary. 16:13.575 --> 16:16.318 [SPEAKER_00]: It's work if I have to do it, but sometimes I have to do it for money. 16:16.358 --> 16:21.024 [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes I have to do it to put food in my family's mouths or whatever. 16:21.124 --> 16:22.806 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep the house clean, whatever the thing is, right? 16:22.886 --> 16:24.147 [SPEAKER_00]: So keep my chickens alive. 16:24.668 --> 16:26.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are all things that are work. 16:26.510 --> 16:30.856 [SPEAKER_00]: But I can do them in a way that invites leisure. 16:32.078 --> 16:33.379 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one thing. 16:33.580 --> 16:42.772 [SPEAKER_00]: And isn't it ironic that hobbies have created an industry that requires other people to work? 16:42.792 --> 16:44.254 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I really never had about that. 16:44.675 --> 16:56.010 [SPEAKER_00]: But like there's a literal hobby lobby that's a huge corporation that now there are product lines 16:56.429 --> 17:06.169 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, stocked brokers and it's like that that are in this world of leisure, same thing with travel and everything else, you know, things that are leisure are also products now. 17:06.352 --> 17:09.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is just interesting. 17:09.615 --> 17:10.376 [SPEAKER_01]: It is interesting. 17:11.097 --> 17:18.385 [SPEAKER_00]: It starts to kind of, if you start pulling that thread too much, it could all start to feel like a big, just a big puddle. 17:18.685 --> 17:19.566 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of nothing. 17:19.686 --> 17:20.587 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's leisure? 17:20.627 --> 17:24.011 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have to work to do it, just as an example. 17:24.331 --> 17:24.551 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 17:24.952 --> 17:35.903 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, no, I mean, these are actually quite petty questions about the world we live in and the way we, the way we've normalized spending time. 17:36.119 --> 17:53.537 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it also, I don't want to get too into the weeds on this, but it also brings up the question of like AI, which ostensibly, like a true AI optimist believes that artificial intelligence. 17:53.686 --> 18:04.124 [SPEAKER_00]: will one day replace our need to do a lot of the work that we do right now, just to, you know, make a living or whatever. 18:04.244 --> 18:05.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 18:05.126 --> 18:07.350 [SPEAKER_00]: And then ostensibly it would be replaced with leisure. 18:08.351 --> 18:09.213 [SPEAKER_00]: But does that work? 18:09.333 --> 18:16.926 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you look back before, you know, before the industrial revolution made it possible for. 18:17.446 --> 18:19.410 [SPEAKER_00]: people to get off the farm. 18:19.971 --> 18:21.233 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean they stopped working. 18:21.674 --> 18:27.385 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, it put a lot of people in much worse conditions than they were before that. 18:27.505 --> 18:29.850 [SPEAKER_00]: So did it, it created leisure for some? 18:30.311 --> 18:30.491 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 18:30.992 --> 18:37.885 [SPEAKER_00]: It removed means of supporting themselves or raised the bar on what it looks like to support oneself. 18:39.097 --> 18:45.914 [SPEAKER_00]: in other ways, and then I just think it made everyone work, actually, made working people work more and worse. 18:46.275 --> 18:47.158 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:47.178 --> 18:50.647 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's just something I think about when I consider the robots coming for me. 18:50.927 --> 18:54.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if it's if if if if if chat GPT 18:55.094 --> 18:57.299 [SPEAKER_00]: Right now, we're a little ahead of the curve. 18:57.339 --> 19:10.167 [SPEAKER_00]: So chatGPT can sort of buy back time in our lives that we would have used to, I don't know, research, like where to get our haircut, let's just say. 19:10.602 --> 19:22.619 [SPEAKER_00]: But at some point, if you just speed everything up and now everyone's back on the same playing field, you know, to get the same amount of stuff done, we've just added more stuff that we're gonna be expected to get done. 19:23.079 --> 19:25.783 [SPEAKER_00]: And then what's that gonna do to our leisure or our sense of leisure? 19:25.823 --> 19:34.275 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you really feel like you are living a leisurely life if your brain is constantly full of data you have to manage? 19:34.415 --> 19:35.317 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so. 19:35.417 --> 19:39.242 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not really in case you hadn't noticed it didn't really take optimistic this way. 19:39.577 --> 19:40.579 [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. 19:40.919 --> 19:46.027 [SPEAKER_01]: And I almost think that makes me want to define leisure and hobbies as something the robots can't come for. 19:46.347 --> 19:46.968 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I mean? 19:47.048 --> 20:00.589 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's it's so personal and it's so kind of sole level in that it's driven by our desire to make something or learn something or touch the grass or 20:00.755 --> 20:01.997 [SPEAKER_01]: dig for mushrooms. 20:02.177 --> 20:13.836 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so elemental that I don't think, I mean, sure, we might use the robots to help us come up with a list or identify a plant or something, but like, they can't take it away. 20:14.417 --> 20:14.658 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:14.678 --> 20:15.739 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good way to think about it. 20:15.860 --> 20:17.122 [SPEAKER_00]: Or replace it with something. 20:17.582 --> 20:21.649 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, else, there's no, you know, there's no replacement for watching my chickens. 20:22.050 --> 20:22.330 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:22.470 --> 20:27.859 [SPEAKER_00]: Not even watching a video of 20:28.075 --> 20:44.120 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking at our list of episodes because we are starting off 2026 and we did 18 episodes last year and I'm just looking at a bullet point list of them right now and it is funny to see I would say most of them are more in the greater leisure umbrella than specifically hobbies. 20:44.180 --> 20:55.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we did talk about bird watching and we talked about raising chickens and foraging and thrifting and knitting hand made gifts so we touched on some things that definitely 20:55.278 --> 20:57.480 [SPEAKER_01]: could be more traditional cultivated hobbies. 20:57.600 --> 21:00.883 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think what this podcast really about is about. 21:00.963 --> 21:09.591 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's in the name is how we spend that leisure time that we are privileged to have at this stage of life. 21:09.651 --> 21:10.632 [SPEAKER_01]: Our kids are older. 21:10.952 --> 21:15.216 [SPEAKER_01]: We have choices about how we spend our time in how we structure our work time. 21:15.416 --> 21:25.285 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of love looking at this list and just thinking about it in this big, like big bucket of like seeking pleasure, almost. 21:25.265 --> 21:33.447 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I am looking at this list and thinking even the things that could be seen as hobbies that a lot of people would see as a hobby. 21:33.467 --> 21:37.317 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say bird watching, just as an example, or foraging. 21:38.225 --> 21:42.149 [SPEAKER_00]: Or chickens, you know, don't have to be. 21:42.669 --> 21:43.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 21:43.290 --> 21:58.223 [SPEAKER_00]: You can cultivate again a posture to your life where you notice birds, even if you're not in the position Warren, which is we have time to sit down every week and record a 30 minute episode talking about bird watching. 21:58.243 --> 22:06.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe not everybody has that kind of time or interest right now, but you too can look up in the sky and watch a bird. 22:06.450 --> 22:07.371 [SPEAKER_00]: Anybody. 22:07.739 --> 22:12.971 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really matter, unless you've never leave your house and are never outside, you too can do that. 22:13.131 --> 22:17.822 [SPEAKER_00]: You can, when you're walking from place to place, think about how that makes you feel. 22:17.882 --> 22:21.871 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, you can enjoy a cup of tea. 22:21.911 --> 22:22.913 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at the list too. 22:23.094 --> 22:24.016 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:24.036 --> 22:27.283 [SPEAKER_00]: There's ways that any of these things 22:27.854 --> 22:39.012 [SPEAKER_00]: can enhance your life and give you a sense of leisure, even if it's like 30 seconds at a time, instead of 30 minutes, the way I'm approaching it. 22:39.228 --> 22:40.149 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree. 22:40.670 --> 22:55.927 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to add like we haven't talked about the word midlife, but we've mentioned that both of us have kids who are older and so the demands of parenting young kids are no longer upon us, as well as we are in our 40s, mid 40s and late 40s, actually. 22:55.947 --> 22:57.028 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little late 40s. 22:57.048 --> 22:57.569 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you in? 22:57.589 --> 22:58.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think I'm 40? 22:58.510 --> 22:59.011 [SPEAKER_00]: You're in it. 22:59.491 --> 23:01.033 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm still turning 46. 23:02.895 --> 23:05.438 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got another year and then you're late. 23:05.418 --> 23:07.563 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I should 50 at this point. 23:07.723 --> 23:09.467 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not in our early 40s anymore. 23:10.329 --> 23:15.541 [SPEAKER_01]: But the midlife piece as I look at this list is so much about knowing ourselves, right? 23:15.601 --> 23:19.069 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of these things I was thinking about going to the beach. 23:19.089 --> 23:21.013 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you and I have gone to the beach since we were... 23:20.993 --> 23:41.297 [SPEAKER_01]: teenagers and earlier and we took our little kids to the beach and we've gone on family vacations to the beach but when we did the episode about going to the beach in mid-life it was so comically specific about what beverage we're going to bring and what chair we're going to sit in and why we like to read a paper book and not a magazine or a Kindle and of course we laughed a lot 23:41.277 --> 23:59.522 [SPEAKER_01]: But what that is is actually two things, one knowing yourself and knowing what you like and knowing how to sort of squeeze the joy out of that hour at the beach and then also having having the time to attend to yourself so that going to the beach feels 23:59.502 --> 24:00.664 [SPEAKER_01]: how you want it to feel. 24:00.704 --> 24:07.117 [SPEAKER_01]: So I also think this, the midlife, that's where the midlife piece comes in, is each of these things is possible at any age. 24:07.678 --> 24:14.090 [SPEAKER_01]: They might be more fun at this age and stage where we can lean into what we know we like. 24:14.130 --> 24:15.412 [SPEAKER_01]: You know how you like your tea. 24:15.633 --> 24:17.376 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know how I like my TV. 24:17.592 --> 24:22.119 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know I spent many years going to the beach and it was not in any way leisurely. 24:22.140 --> 24:38.186 [SPEAKER_00]: There is nothing leisurely about hauling, you know, a diaper bag on one hip and a toddler and like a thingful of beach toys on the other over 200 yards of hot sand. 24:38.486 --> 24:39.328 [SPEAKER_00]: That is not sure. 24:39.688 --> 24:40.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, is leisurely. 24:40.610 --> 24:49.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is why I don't choose to do that in that way anymore, you know, it's like everything about it has changed because you because we can choose yeah yeah 24:50.093 --> 24:55.083 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what a fun conversation for our first episode of The New Year. 24:55.144 --> 24:56.186 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a little while. 24:56.206 --> 25:01.116 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you and I are always re-learning how to do this any time we take a month off. 25:01.136 --> 25:02.319 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we podcast again? 25:02.339 --> 25:05.004 [SPEAKER_00]: We've only been doing it for over a decade now. 25:05.505 --> 25:08.331 [SPEAKER_01]: But this version is very mid-life lady leisure. 25:08.431 --> 25:11.157 [SPEAKER_01]: This podcast itself is a much... 25:11.508 --> 25:19.036 [SPEAKER_01]: more leisurely pace for us and a much more driven by our own kind of what we want to talk about and our own schedules. 25:19.116 --> 25:22.220 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, we do have to remind ourselves how to do it each time. 25:22.500 --> 25:24.382 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, happy new year everyone. 25:24.402 --> 25:25.544 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being back with us. 25:25.964 --> 25:31.030 [SPEAKER_01]: If you are new and missed all those episodes we talked about, there's a lot of fun ones in the archives. 25:31.050 --> 25:31.791 [SPEAKER_01]: You can go listen. 25:32.211 --> 25:33.773 [SPEAKER_01]: I also will link in the show notes. 25:34.193 --> 25:40.300 [SPEAKER_01]: There was an episode of Culture Study Podcast recently and I think 25:40.280 --> 25:49.713 [SPEAKER_01]: They went really deep into, like, more traditional hobbies and how people at different stages of life are like re making hobbies as a priority. 25:50.474 --> 25:50.615 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 25:50.755 --> 25:52.397 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a, it's a good conversation. 25:53.539 --> 25:56.383 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll link that up just if you're interested in this topic. 25:56.944 --> 26:03.553 [SPEAKER_01]: And then just a reminder that you can find our expanded episode story with photos and links on Substack. 26:03.533 --> 26:12.071 [SPEAKER_01]: at midlife lady leisure pursuits.substack.com and that is also where you'll find that special page we've set up with our favorite vionic styles. 26:12.652 --> 26:17.843 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't forget use that promo code midlife at vionicshoes.com for 15% off. 26:17.863 --> 26:21.390 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for being here everyone and we'll talk to you soon.