[SPEAKER_04]: hey everybody welcome back to the mastering rod building podcast i'm your host bill falkner and we've got a good one for you today uh i am delighted to be joined by no other than elite series angler bow browning and a whole lot of you are going to recognize that name and bow has certainly uh off to a fast start in the elites but for those of you who don't know him he's originally
[SPEAKER_04]: the pride of Lake Hamilton High School there where he fish for the team.
[SPEAKER_04]: He then did two years at jury university before winning two national championships and graduating with the degree in communications and a minor in marketing from the University of Manavalo.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go Falcons.
[SPEAKER_04]: he had won the Bass Master College open at like Norfolk, he won the MFMLF, excuse me, college open at like Dardenel, and this is fascinating.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the only person I know ever haven't done this, actually qualified for the Elite Series to the opens in 2024 as a senior, as he was still in college in graduating.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so he is a pro-staff member and sponsored by Bass Pro Shops, Ranger Boats, Gamaline, Z-Man Fishing, Fuji Toy,
[SPEAKER_04]: FXR Yamaha Garmin and perhaps his move in during quality to me is that he is an absolute tackle junkie and gear junkie like me, which makes me feel better about myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you see the stack of gear in his garage, you wouldn't think I have such a problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: You would think it might be somewhat normal.
[SPEAKER_04]: So please welcome to the mastering rod building podcast, Mr. Bob Browning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Looks exciting to talk some
[SPEAKER_04]: do ruins yes some crankbait rods maybe let's go we're going to we're going to get into it but before that I sort of know the answer because you're a unique specimen in that your father was also a professional fisherman Steven Browning and went on to some renown as the winner of a
[SPEAKER_04]: outdoor base reality show, which I could argue was in part because he was a good fisherman, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like he fed everybody and that's how he won the thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But um, so I think I already know the answer to this question, but just because I asked everybody, like how'd you get into fishing in the first place?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, obviously my my father was the one that that not pushed me into fishing, but that was the door that was open, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, obviously had to just load fish and was eating up with it's in my blood from an early age and that uh... i was also an avid golfer originally i thought that was really that i thought that was a path of i just got goose bumps man that felt like a bullet snipers bullet just went by my head like you know close we came to loot we've lost a lot of good men out there to golf
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'll tell you, I heard this from Scott Forestall who has been a generous mentor to me in a very kind with his time and he's an excellent businessman and he says he loves to say every time you play golf you're taking food off my kids table and so I feel the same way and I think that's how we should feel as an industry.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm glad I'm glad you you faced the devil on each shoulder and made the good decision on the fishing on the golf.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% 100% yeah the fishing thing or got a lot better probably.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll never know but I'm glad you chose fishing it worked out better for you being on this podcast for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah I've just got eaten up with it and then kind of went down the golf route and then when I was a senior in hospital I was like I know what I want to do I want to fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was golfing thinking about fishing every time I was playing a tournament I was thinking about fishing you know so yeah that's where my
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, I applaud you having the courage to go after it, because it's certainly not an easy path.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so this is crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you're the first person, uh, I'm aware of in this situation.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you win two national titles at Montevallo while you get in your major and your minor, but then you're also qualifying for the Elite Series.
[SPEAKER_04]: The opens while you're doing that, you had a, I thought I had a busy senior year, but it was pretty much Tom Foulry compared to it was nothing serious or productive.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a, uh, there's a long second semester.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet a lot of trying to navigate, you know, wrapping up your college years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually had a side note that the funny was I had a professor that I,
[SPEAKER_00]: was telling when I would go to these tournaments.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I would just say I'm going to a fishing tournament and they probably think, you know, college immediately assumed college.
[SPEAKER_00]: They wouldn't think twice about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was really going to envision these bass master operas to quote trying to call for half off of the elites.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I go to the first one, I can show we had tell our professor, I'm like, I'm going for a fishing tournament next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's fine, can't you open and you get back, go, I get back the next week and I top 10 that term, so I was on Bass Master Live on Teague on Fox Sports.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I come back in and she goes, hey, I need to see you after class if you don't mind, I was like, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: So stick around.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was never a good thing for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a good thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, you got something I need to do that I missed while I was going.
[SPEAKER_00]: She goes, were you at a college term at last week?
[SPEAKER_00]: I said no.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, well, I saw you on Fox Sports.
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband was watching you on Saturday and we knew that's when I figured out you weren't going to college.
[SPEAKER_00]: Turn it over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got tor, I got kind of absets for that whole week.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't slip through that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know what?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's hard to judge somebody's actions till you walked a mile in their shoes, but I tried to top ten in the opening for a tardy year of absence for a week and make that up, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was one of those things where by the end of it and by the time I made missing a lot of classes and for tournaments it was like Look, we're going to have to sit down talk about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have one you're the only professor that's not not in Yeah, yeah, yeah, you came around and she was like I understood.
[SPEAKER_00]: She kind of saw the dream and understood where I was coming from and she passed me with like a
[SPEAKER_04]: a barely passing grade and got me out she passed you she passed you that's all that matters you got the papers and everything that's a man it's it's I get it right and it's it's it's it's evolved so fast like I have I've met some of the faculty down there affiliated with the outdoor scholars program and it's such an awesome program and so many great anglers and outdoor kids have come through there but it's interesting to me that
[SPEAKER_04]: I would not have known what it didn't exist in my age, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, she's probably younger than me, but so she can be forgiven a little bit because my mom tells me all the time, she's like, thank goodness, she couldn't pass vision high school in college when you were there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you wouldn't have a degree from Vanderbilt.
[SPEAKER_04]: You would have not gone to college or you would have gone to college.
[SPEAKER_04]: Fish and somewhere, it's like, well, that's not the end of the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, that wasn't my path.
[SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't meant to be, but it's pretty cool that the opportunities out there now.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so much is made of
[SPEAKER_04]: how well so many of you young anglers are doing, you know, and I think it's so
[SPEAKER_04]: almost like sour grapes and you know, so everyone's, oh, it's a technology.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's, it's forward-facing, it's all just kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, man, no, stop and think about this for a second.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I had this conversation with Easton Father-Gill, who's another of your teammates, who's also on the elite, who happens to be our current reigning classic champion, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is the incredibly difficult feat to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody in that tournament is a lights out outstanding world-class angle.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I don't think people understand how hard it is to win that tournament.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, everybody wants to sort of poo poo it and say, oh, these young guys went in these tournaments.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, well, nobody was saying that when Jordan Lee came out Auburn in one, two of them in relatively short order.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the thing is, like, when you, when I remember the guys who were coming on to tour as young as young guys, the only guy I remember making it onto the Bass Master circuit as a young guy was like a 19-year-old long-haired mullet wearing Randy Blockett, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: and right which is great like he was a he was a great fisherman and still is and you know absolutely nothing bad to say about Randy, but like You talk about something like you or somebody like East and who fished all these years who's parents were tournament fishermen who fished all these years In high school then fished all these tournaments at a very very competitive level like based on number of entries I mean you could kind of argue to win these college tournaments is like
[SPEAKER_04]: In some ways more difficult, you know, based on having to fish with a partner and it's a shorter time and it's like there's so many entries.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, there's tons of skill involved, but it's it's not easy to win, it's not easy to win these college tournaments, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And so by the time one of you guys gets out and starts fishing opens and qualifying for the leads, you fish hundreds of tournaments, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: On the same lakes where you're trying to qualify and go.
[SPEAKER_04]: your mindset's different, your tackle prep is different.
[SPEAKER_04]: How well rounded you are from a skill set perspective is different.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I hate that people are just choosing to focus on the technology, be like, well, they're better.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's technology and the technology is pretty cheap.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, these folks have, these guys have fish more tournaments than you did until you were 10 years on tour.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I wish people would, if they spend a day in the boat with one of you guys, they'd understand, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But you know, it's just easy for the armchair quarterback sometimes, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what you're gonna win.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, hey, and look, if everyone has access to the same technology and everybody has to play by the same rules, there's not cheating, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So like, you know, calm down, Uncle Randy.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's gonna be fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Take a deep breath.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, all that aside, so thank you so much for joining me.
[SPEAKER_04]: You obviously, you know, are,
[SPEAKER_04]: better verse than almost anybody and how tough these tournaments are and being on the elite series is certainly like the world class level from everybody from all over the globe.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that said, you've done well, you know, of course we have the two first place finishes we've talked about.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've been in the top 10, six times, you got 13 top 20 finishes, 19 top 30 finishes.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, to me, it's just a matter of time before you have your day and you're going to win one of these elites.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's fun for me, I believe that, man, and you're a person of faith, and you do it the right way, and you work really hard.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I love that you're following you're calling, but all that being said, if you had to predict,
[SPEAKER_04]: the technique you would win your first tournament on what would you guess it would either be cranking your chatterbait fishing well so i was wondering if you were going to say that so that that leads us right into this topic right so i don't know as many anglers as you know and i don't spend as much time despite i'm trying hard uh... with with a rod in my hands as you do at least not a bass rod in fresh water
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about the crankbait thing, right, because this is another thing where I think the peanut gallery is sometimes dismissive like I've vividly remember I grew up in Texas and they were actually guys that would call crankbaits like idiot baits.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, well, why you, oh, any you can fish that all you got to do is throw it out and reel it in, you know, it's like, well.
[SPEAKER_04]: might be a little more to it than that if you're doing it right, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But when did you fall in love with crankbaits?
[SPEAKER_04]: Was this something you always loved from a young age or is this something you developed as like a skill for for power fishing internments?
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of a little bit of both.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, myself and my dad are, or,
[SPEAKER_00]: Arguably myself my dad and Brett high.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Brett high are arguably probably the three best chatterbait fishman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, and I'm not toot in my own horn track.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're known as the best chatterbait guys on tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So square billing kind of falls into that are almost the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, our fishing shallow water and it's something that naturally kind of came with that being said.
[SPEAKER_00]: the crankbait fishing here in Central Arkansas, especially this time of year till March or even April.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the early summer months deep crank and we do it a lot, especially this time of year, those crawled dead pattern crankbaits, shallow water, winding rock transitions, all the good stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do it a ton here and I don't know if people realize that I might be preaching to the choir, but that is something that is very prominent in this part of the country, along with the chatterbait fishing,
[SPEAKER_00]: the whole nine parts, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that if you want to be good in Arkansas, and if you want to be good at the top level, you got to be a crankbait fisherman, but especially here in Central Arkansas, you got to be a crankbait, comfortable to own a crankbait.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for sure, there's some good Arkansas crankbait and jerkbait fishermen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, so just for, because everybody's coming from a slightly different place, like when you get out on the water, how do you know when to pick up the crankbait?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this the thing where you're going to start?
[SPEAKER_04]: Always picking up.
[SPEAKER_04]: a crankbait or a chatterbait or there are things you're looking for that tell you hey any day on any lake could be different but I expect you know when you're going into practice or you're doing whatever When are you kind of getting the green lights like oh the crankbait's gonna be in play there's uh, you know like a chatterbait being that that's one of my things it's always on the front day a crankbait is one of those things that
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost always on the front deck for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always in the red box ready to go, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: He were three of them, you know, it's just one of those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm looking more for
[SPEAKER_00]: I say something to click and that sounds people like we mean something to click.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the click?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm looking for that scenario on the wall, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And oftentimes it might be a deal where I'm throwing a chatterbait and a tournament practice and I go, man, I probably to crankbait better down through here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me try it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got one right here sitting beside me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here around the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: We know when it goes down, you know, I'm looking excited to drizzle and rain and nastier here too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm looking at a rock, a rock bank across the lake that I know I can go on a crank made.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just that day, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a crank bait is going to catch fish all over the country year round.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, really and truly, it's not something that's a seasonal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not something that is a time and place.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's genuinely a year round fish catcher, just like a chatterbait, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something you always want to be able to throw something you want in your inventory.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that you can go way down the rabbit holes with and really dive into all that and we will today on this time talk, but for sure something that
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said earlier, the Texas guys talking about a dummy bait, you know, something you just throw out there in real in it is so far from that right the chatter base thing with the credit that matter it is so far from that, you know, it's it's a very technical technique if that makes sense, it is a lot of physics that lay behind it that we'll get into that
[SPEAKER_00]: that change the way you think about a crime bait and change how many fish you catch on a crime bait.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, so you're out on the water and you're sort of seeing fish maybe you're throwing a chatterbait first and you're saying, okay, I feel like I should be getting more bites to this area.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's so many variables of things, you know, there's square bills, there's wood body baits, there's plastic body baits, there's silent baits, there's baits with rattles and different sounds, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there a way you kinda,
[SPEAKER_04]: So what I'm guilty of most of the time is I'm like I pick up the last thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: They hit 8 well when I was on that body of water or had that water clear to you at that time of the year Right, and that's where I start and then I'm looking for those details like short strike in it or falling at night eating it or All small fish not any big fish or whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like okay I'm not quite I don't quite have it right start tweaking variables like how do you how do you sort of start?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you kind of have to fill out a lot of does a bite seem finicky or does it seem aggressive, you know, it's a reaction bait, it also can be fish finesse in the sense that, you know, I got to examples right here on two daily different into the spectrum that we're going to talk about here in a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of have to feel it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, there's flat side balls of crankbaits for those days where they're barely one to eat anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's free fold, you know, you have a little flat side.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you got the dates where they're grouped up in a school on a ledge and you take that big 10x thing and rip it through the middle of a
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's more situation, you know, a lot of what we do around here is square building.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of the target cast and you know, we're throwing it stops and lay down running around rock transitions.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we know there's a fish in a small area and we're trying to figure out how to make them bite.
[SPEAKER_00]: And uh, and it is a lot of playing around that comes into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like I could I could list off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could go right here and I would know the crankbait to throw right now, right, but for somebody somewhere else in the country, it's going to be it could be a different crankbait, you know, you get out of comes down to paying to just your surroundings, listening at the tackle shops things like that yeah well and death, right, so you mentioned a couple of really important things, right, so one is, are you fishing around cover, you're not right, so if you're if I hear you right, you're going towards the square bill and that kind of thing that does better through that cover.
[SPEAKER_04]: If they're there, if it's more open, water that's going to make you think about another thing and obviously depth, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I've got so many questions already, this is good.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you mentioned, you mentioned trying to ascertain, you know, kind of discern where that bite is finicky or not.
[SPEAKER_04]: One of the ways that I would normally do that is like I'm just barely scanning them and getting them on one hook or are they choking it right I mean is that the kind of stuff you're talking about are you reading the way the fish hit the bait in the way they're hooked or tell me more about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so if you're throwing like for instance a 2.5 square built you're throwing it around stumps you're body.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're bouncing off of them and they're just barely eating it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're getting that back hook skin hook there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not really eating it good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when you start going, okay, do I need to go to a silent flat side like a balsa?
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, do I need to go to a little 1.0 size, something real small?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I need to adjust color wise?
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're not eating it good, that's a lot of that has to do with a wrong color or wrong side.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a better bait to be throwin'.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now there are times,
[SPEAKER_00]: major cold front here and those fish just get the get finicky you're just sure in the bite and then figure it out in the boat's the whole different story right right a lot of times especially you have stable conditions and nothing crazy happening there's a color that's going to be better you're going to be able to piece it together and that a lot of that comes down to having a big inventory of crankbaits I mean I know I carry a lot of different crankbaits was missing a bit
[SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of want to have a wide inventory of what what you can throw at them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, one and not all of us some of us if we if we only fish a home like you can dial that in a little bit right part of it is you're fishing every lake all over the country year round you got I got to have everything because everything might be in play right but you One of the things is interesting to me about crankbaits.
[SPEAKER_04]: is color, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll talk about all this stuff in different billshaves and different wide or tight wobbles and so much, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But in terminal and hoax and on, we'll get through this.
[SPEAKER_04]: But like for the colors, it's so interesting to me because I struggle to think of other baits where in the freshwater at least, where some days, you
[SPEAKER_04]: and we have access to those realistic finishes we've ever had on some of these debates and in some days they want something that doesn't look anything like anything in the natural world ever right like and they can both work right and it's so interesting like for you is that a water clarity thing only is that a forge thing only like when do you decide no
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna have to get a reaction bite so I'm gonna go with something wild and crazy versus I've really feel like they're on crawfish right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm gonna dig on this ledge with this crawfish colored bait or they're clearly spitting up sheds.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm gonna try to match a shad color like how do you think about because they obviously all work or they I mean I've caught them on everything like I said from something looks like a UFO to like I'm big on purple right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what it is about purple bait like I keep trying different baits for different fish and purple and purple like the old purple worm right like that's so old.
[SPEAKER_04]: It seems to work for everything, man, like purple chatterbaits is kind of like a, I won't say which fishery where but blue black and blue and purple chatterbaits are like all of a sudden Wack and a non-bass species of fish and no one's ever like what are you throwing that color at him for it's like well because it's working, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, so how do you, how do you figure out is it just trial and error?
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you figuring out natural versus unnatural or loud or visible or whatever the variables are there?
[SPEAKER_00]: paying attention to what's going on around you, you know, if they're pushing bait, obviously feeding on bait, spitting up bait fish, you know, then you're going to see your shads.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say this, cold weather months.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I'm typically going to go crawl.
[SPEAKER_00]: Natural crawl, or like a, even like a red fire tiger.
[SPEAKER_00]: They like red or a crawfish in the winter, especially on like rocky lakes, highland reservoirs, I think that red seems to be a staple in the
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, in paying tensions are eaten bluegiel, if there's a lot of rick clunts at this best one time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in order to be a great outdoorsman, you're a fisherman, hunter, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to pay attention to every little piece of the puzzle surrounding.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, he was certainly one of the best, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, you got to be in tune with what's going on in nature.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, paying attention to those, you know, they're pushing bait on the bank.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're spitting up the bait.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a big part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: As well as knowing the forwards at the in the body of water efficient, I mean, you know, pay attention to the forwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the best start.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can tell anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to start trying crankbaiting on your lake and your lake is lake x and Indiana.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, wherever it is, figure out what what the forward is.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then and then start there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you know start piece and things together and
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to try to, you know, a red fire tire crankbait's winner, you know, now it's, you know, February.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to try this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard it was that should work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you start peace and all this stuff together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And over time, then you find yourself walking on a tackle, so when you go, man, that OSP blitz crankbait and that red color right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would probably work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get one of the try.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is on my crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, then you stuff together and it starts off all, but if you were starting on a basic level for somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just pay attention to the forward at hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in those colder months, lean towards those crawfish.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's a forward, which is just about everywhere in the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're just crawfish in the winter, early spring, a reddish type crankbait.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the rest of you, you can normally base it on Chad or baitfish.
[SPEAKER_04]: But just pay attention to the forge at hand, learn that first and then and then base your color picking around that and side I think crawfish throws people as a bait and and like you look at all these studies like I read a bunch of stuff they do it southern pond management from Auburn right and you've got fisheries management stuff at Montevalo to but like.
[SPEAKER_04]: it's such an important forage fish forage source for bass and so high in protein and so important you know in certain months especially but like you don't see them like you do like I go on any like I see some blue gill.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll see some some kind of manure shed or some kind of bait fish right so it's like oh well I'll start there and you don't you often don't see the crawfish right um
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's easy to forget about them and try them.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it took me a long time to get those bright colors.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were talking earlier about watch it all.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're a huge clear water lake, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, well, that doesn't seem like a natural color in this clear water.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've never seen a crawfish that red well, but if they want the bait, then, you know,
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll tell you, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It does.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, in terms of, so we talked a little bit about the color, we talked about starting around cover versus not, talked to me about depth, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because this is one, we have better electronics than we've ever had.
[SPEAKER_04]: A lot of times we are targeting, not always, but a lot of times we're targeting fish that we know are there, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Whether we're inside scan, going out of ledge, or you know whatever the scenario is,
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this a thing where you want to come right through them at their depth?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this something where you want to come above them?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you work through that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like how do you think about Because we've had so many I remember when it was like shallow and deep those are the two kind of great things you could write or like a lipless that something that was it right and you just had to find a way now we've got
[SPEAKER_04]: all these baits and they're really good, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like if you use the recommended line all that kind of like they will run at the depth they're advertised to run, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you think about depth and which are you trying to be right on them?
[SPEAKER_04]: You trying to be deeper than them?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're trying to be above them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm normally cranking, I'm trying to keep bottom contact.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time, bottom contact at that depth range, I think they're in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they're in five foot on rock banks here at home, I'm gonna throw up a five foot dive and red cranking now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the only time that I don't think about that is grass fishing.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the grass fishing is different because now you're reading how high that grass is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might be eight feet, but the grass comes up to four, and I'm throwing, you know, a square wheel right off the top of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times you throw a lipless in that situation, but especially like a flat side of a square wheel is a really good way to get this bite.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get it in the top of that grass and rip it out, things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like it more when it's when it's going on than throwing a lipless but it's so much easier to be in tune with that bait and how deep you know how deep it runs.
[SPEAKER_00]: You kind of can hold your rod tip up and really keep it up a little bit, come here to a lipless.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to try to run down, right, tighten it up, the stations that crank bay and that max depth ability keeps it from having to fight near as much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can stay in this bite and strike zone more often, yeah, yeah, fight at less.
[SPEAKER_04]: You mentioned earlier, throwing like the 10xD through a deep school to fire them up, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that bouncing on the bottom two or not necessarily normally you're wanting it to dig into the really rip a trench through there and yeah, but they're attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's kind of the rug burn it down there and real it as fast as you can just beat in the crap out of everything it runs in
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good reaction strike.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had never seen that kind of concept of Activating the school until Alabama rigs came out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was fishing on Lay Lake with a guy and he pulled up on a point and he said, okay, there's spot a bass all of this point, but they won't hit anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to throw the A rig through there a few times.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to fire him up and then we're going to throw a lipless in there.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to catch him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, I don't know about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Man, I mean, it happened about three different points.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is a post cold front, it was a tough day, but it was like something about that disruptive big, and we even caught a couple on the A-rig, and then you could throw a lipless through there, or deep dive through there, get nothing, fire them up with the A-rig, and then throw in there, and you get two or three bites, and you have to throw the A-rig again, you get two or three bites, and eventually it would stop, and you go to the next point, but it was fascinating.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't often think of using the artificial lure as like a trigger, you know, and I mean to like get them about riled up, but it can, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And we do that with salt water fish.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know that's curious to me about, you know, bass, but it certainly works, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you, because we've talked about some different techniques, like square bill around the structure, and now we're talking about, you know, either lipless or square bill over the grass or ripping through the grass, um,
[SPEAKER_04]: Talk to me a little bit about line.
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you thinking about line?
[SPEAKER_04]: Mono, flora, braid a leader, depends on the situation like, we'll talk me through the way you've kind of developed your line system for this, since you're a specialist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and the, at their floor apartment, on everything, at their different sizes for different situations.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just my opinion, most people's,
[SPEAKER_00]: seems to be where they fall as floor carbon.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a small percentage of guys that like monofilament because it has to make sure stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll most people throw full of carbon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're throwing every, oh, everyone is crankbaits on a cast and rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's glued like a shad wrap.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing that you really hear like a Repala SR5, like it's a, that's just a different deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because it's a light.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so light, hard to throw.
[SPEAKER_00]: You almost have to, like a spot on like a spa bait rod, like something really soft.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Biggest thing with a shadow app is just getting it out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know we have to help it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll play and I'll play and I'll do everything in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just pay for some of the times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but, uh, but, grants a fish catcher too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, all this other stuff like a, like a 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
[SPEAKER_00]: Floor card most time real soft rod rods have a huge play in there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, we're getting there.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just plugging it away I'm just seeing all the rest of it, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So when you're throwing 12 are you control and depth with the 12 is there a time where you would if you wanted to run shallower You go heavier with a 14 or 16 or wanted to run deeper.
[SPEAKER_04]: It'd be a 10 or you're just gonna change baits at that point and kind of keep the 12 as your constant 12 is like my 1.0
[SPEAKER_00]: 1.5 not really around any cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I will set up on a 1.0 to go get an 14 16 pound.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to make the bait not work right right had to be finesse with that small small square bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you get like in your 2.5 like your traditional side square bills.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where I really started to play with line as far as what I'm fishing around if I'm just going down the bank.
[SPEAKER_00]: not realen it through anything, just fishing down the rocks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a third, 14.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's heavy enough where I don't ever have to worry about it breaking, light enough to where it's going to let the bait do what it needs to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we go into like if I'm fishing around big stomps, crashing the square bill through big stomps, lay down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to 16 sometimes even 20.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: will explain why that works when we get to rods with that bigger line, bigger diameter line is going to allow that bait to crawl through that wood better is what it's going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to have nearly as much stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you threw through a laydown with a 2.5 on 12 pound line, it's going to hit the first stick and probably hang out just because it has just been what you give.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, that's from Greg Hackney and my dad years ago when it changed
[SPEAKER_00]: But that heavier your diameter line a little bit less stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to pull that bait through there.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot more efficient, but you're still going to get hung up like anything, but you're going to get hung up for less with that heavier poundage line and then you something like a 10xD 8xD something huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're normally fishing that in open water.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just hitting the bottom with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, 14 pound line normally is what I tend to lean towards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you know, I'm worried about really.
[SPEAKER_04]: ripping it through anything, you know, how are you thinking about gear ratios?
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you run all the same?
[SPEAKER_04]: You like different ones, pens?
[SPEAKER_00]: So typically, I'm throwing a six, six, three to one on just about everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, I couldn't tell you the exact amount of line that pulls in per turn, but I thought Dawa a lot of times.
[SPEAKER_00]: So me too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know a six, three Dawa is my go to.
[SPEAKER_00]: A couple of the five to one, what do they call it, crazy crankers, steas, I use those for like the 10xD.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the big heavy stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's all that five to one comes down to is you're getting far more torque when you're real.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what that allows you to do is you don't wear yourself out in here as much because for those people who don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: The higher gear ratio goes, gear ratio goes, the less torque you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of have to keep that in mind if I'm trying to pull that big old heavy plug through there, I want that real work and with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna real fast on that five, but that real is gonna take a lot of that torque and keep it from wearing that elbow and shoulder out as you go through the day and wrist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's talk rods.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, and there's no level of detail too much for the appetite of this audience when it comes to cranking rods.
[SPEAKER_04]: So many variables, length, action, power, like, I know you're a mad scientist with this stuff and you've tried everything and you're willing to experiment.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's a really important.
[SPEAKER_04]: point, like I have young kids come up to me and be like, I'm a fish high school, I'm a fish college and in one of the things I observe about you guys and I happen to have been fortunate to be close to a bunch of guys who fished at Monavello, you know, you and Easton and Jack Baron and DK and so y'all are not afraid to try something experiment, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you hear something working for somebody else, you don't poo poo that you said, I'm going to try it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll see you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's part of why you guys learn and get so versatile and and well-rounded so quickly, but you obviously
[SPEAKER_04]: hand on the run real cranking.
[SPEAKER_04]: Talk to me about how you think about rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, let's break it down initially to a very basic science.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one second I guess.
[SPEAKER_04]: That sounds like a dog.
[SPEAKER_04]: Dogs are welcome on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's his or her name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Gus, he's a gold retriever year and a half and oh, Gus is is a goofball.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's just going to get any duck work and Arkansas this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he's a couch potato.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a couch potato lab.
[SPEAKER_00]: So breaking down crankbait rods on just a very basic understanding of what you're looking for.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a crankbait rod in my opinion needs just a few things and what it needs.
[SPEAKER_00]: is load, load being for throwing that bait along ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a parabolic mod, like a moderate rod, really load up, throw that bait along ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: That also comes into fighting the fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: You hook one, he comes up in jumps.
[SPEAKER_00]: That rod's gonna be loaded into it, keep in that pressure when he's jumping and head shaking to the crazy stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: That load is gonna keep your pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: win and i'm trying to figure out how to keep this basic for now and it's okay it's okay it didn't have to be that basic
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're wasn't that load for casting, for fighting, as well as, and this is a very important one.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're rolling that crankbait through the water and it's swimming through their super fast, that bass comes up to eat it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When he comes up behind it, he's going to open his mouth and suck that water in.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they eat, that mouth and suck that water in and suck that crankbait in with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have that load in that rod, but when you're rolling,
[SPEAKER_00]: and he comes up behind it, suck it in, that rod's got to give enough to where that cranky can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And hey, because if you're throwing a pool cue, he comes up and tries to suck it in.
[SPEAKER_00]: That base is not going back any, you know, so they're not going to follow through a lot of times, they're just going to swim up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's where that that soft, you know, rod comes into play.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's three things, the three biggest things that you want, and a crankbait rod is give, give, and give.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to give for three reasons, but that's what that's what you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and you know, which we'll talk about when you go to throwing the big 10xDs, that's going to be totally different than anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm talking about Square Bill's flat sides, you're regularly deep down a crank bait, you're, you know, your 5xDs, your jackal diggles, things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we get talking about 10xDs,
[SPEAKER_00]: we're going to be it is going to be a totally different conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll put a pin in that.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll come back to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But so we're talking about the give giving give obviously like a more moderate action right with some ability loads you can cast and also soft enough that it will work the bait well and that you don't take it away from fish right when they're trying to eat it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have a lot of choices these days.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got straight glass.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got straight carbon.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got hybrids or composites like
[SPEAKER_04]: You have a preference or are you, are you reaching for a different thing for these, again, putting aside the 10xD and like the really extreme deep cranking, or have you developed the preference?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have never been a glass fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just the honest truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never been a glass fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: You normally get heavier rods?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm all about likeness and a rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to get as light as I can with it was a rod in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've leaned away from glass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now some of the glass rods are the best crank and rods out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've only ever felt one that I really really love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can say it on here, but it's now fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: the number one that's the only glass driver picked up where I like.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and there's there's all kinds of glass like everyone's very familiar with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like there's like low modulus intermediate modulus and high modulus carbon fiber, you know, and graphite was the same thing's true of fiberglass, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's cheap heavy spongy slow glass and there's actually glass that if I didn't tell you it was glass or and I painted it, you couldn't see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'd be surprised if it was.
[SPEAKER_04]: So obviously it matters how much the blank designer understands about what they're trying to do matters.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think a lot of people go to glass
[SPEAKER_04]: slow action or moderate action rod right and the reality is you if you know what you're doing you can build a great rod out of carbon fiber as you mentioned that's lighter and more responsive where's you out less all day you know and it helps you feel more whether it's whether you're taking grass what kind of bottom you're going through sand gravel rock you know whatever it is you
[SPEAKER_04]: As long as it's got the right action, it's no disadvantage to be fish and carbon, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Just like there's no advantage to be fish and glass.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're getting the right action, you need to do the things you're talking about, which is throw the bait, work the bait, hook the fish and land them, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like glass has become kind of...
[SPEAKER_00]: Back in the day, I remember last project would be very popular.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason for poppers is because people said they were poppers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there's a long time there went a lot of option, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or you get one person who, like, I remember, I want to say, I don't want to accuse anybody of anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just my memory.
[SPEAKER_04]: But like, I think David Fritz was doing fiberglass for a while.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that also a lot of rods for people who are like, well, I'm going to catch visual crankbait like him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to need a fiberglass, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know?
[SPEAKER_04]: and that's okay, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know people who prefer fiberglass fly rods, crankbait rods.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's what you want, but we're not asking their opinion, we're asking Bob Browning's opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my opinion, I like like a graph, I don't, I still like from glass, except for that one that I mentioned earlier, like it's, it's hard, I would much rather have a really like rod,
[SPEAKER_00]: that I'm way more in tune with than than a glass.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's early my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my dad throws glass for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Crank up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he loves it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a lot of personal preference, but I'm leaning towards our lean and more away from glass and looking for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a lot of the plays into that is length and one of the most,
[SPEAKER_00]: Unthought about things is handle point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I would think you're you're leading me right where I want to go so and these are two different things and one of the things I love about custom rods is and I tell people this all the time
[SPEAKER_04]: The average rod is made for the average angler.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in so far as you are not dead average, which is like five, 10, 185, with arms, this link, and hands this size and everything else, I'm not saying they're wrong, but any one particular person, or particular technique or personal preference, moving that seat up or back and inch can make all the difference in the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: It can change casting distance, it can change hookup ratio, it can change.
[SPEAKER_04]: fatigue through the day can change balance tip up or tip down like it's it's it is totally underutilized and overlooked most of the time because we're all used to just getting what we get and i've called this out because so much of our audience is custom rod builders this is one of the beautiful things about custom you make it however you want go break all the rules if you want to do you find that you typically like a shorter or longer grip than is standard and how long
[SPEAKER_00]: I like like a 610 7 footer for okay, they're building small crankbaits things like that is excluding deep 9 crankbaits, flat sides that I like like a 7 footer deep crank and I like a 7 5 to even and I'm not going into this yet where it's gonna be until right but I like like a 7 and a half
[SPEAKER_00]: is strange rod, you know, pit take your pick.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all pretty close as far as possible.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, talk me through that, because you didn't arrive at that by accident.
[SPEAKER_04]: Start with this variable in the short one.
[SPEAKER_04]: The sixth 10 to 7 feet versus the bigger baits, deeper cranking, you know, going 7-6 or longer, like, how did you develop that over time?
[SPEAKER_04]: What lessons did you learn or what what made you settle on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the first crankbait rod
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, dedicated crankbait ride.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a St. Croix Mojo glass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can make, uh, they still do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it was a glass cranking ride, but at the time that was about all I had.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my dad was a St. Croix, he gave it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why, and with that, um, and it was a 16 medium moderate glass rod, 16.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will fell in love with that rod for the sole fact that when I was target casting, yeah, I could roll my head here at, yeah, after sleep, bro, it right where I wanted it, all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where that 16 to 7-foot comes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's target casting specifically.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as time went on, like we talked about ended up leaning away towards glass rods, but that short rod still stays the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, your handle.
[SPEAKER_00]: is a big part of that too because you got to think if you're roll cast and you're whipping that crankbed around thow and done side by that stump you don't want a big long handle that's going to be hitting you in the side when you go to roll cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of have to think about that's where that shorter hand to.
[SPEAKER_00]: will come to play on those square bill rods flat side crank weights.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, this is like, yeah, this is going to sound crazy, but I want everybody to hear me.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll even add my own two cents on to this.
[SPEAKER_04]: If we went out in the yard or in the front of your boat, and we threw.
[SPEAKER_04]: some crankbaits on two different 610 rods.
[SPEAKER_04]: And one of them was very fast or very stiff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the other one was this very moderate action you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Effectively what happens is more of the rod loads on that moderate action rod.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it casts like a shorter rod.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is effectively a shorter lever because it's bent more.
[SPEAKER_04]: If that makes sense, whereas that 610 staying a lot straighter and being stiffer.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's a very important point, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like the action can affect
[SPEAKER_04]: the accuracy and and for rod builders who are listening out there, this is a general rule of thumb and there's exceptions to any rule, but as you go shorter, you're accuracy generally increases and you're casting distance and hooks setting leverage and everything generally decreases, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a trade off, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so 610 and some people are going, wow, I would have thought he would have said shorter, I would have thought he'd say 6-6 or 6 feet, but if you're talking about a moderate action blank, and it's 610 and a foot and a half of that rod is loading even on a little, you know, wrist roll cast, you're effectively casting with a shorter pivot if that makes sense and you can be very, very accurate.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then of course, one of the things you learn immediately being in the boat with one of you guys is, these guys are world class, right in there.
[SPEAKER_04]: generally to a man and woman incredibly accurate castors through skill in a ton of practice 10,000 hours of nothing else, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: That makes sense to me for the the moderate action rod, and a slightly shorter handle for the kind of accurate rolling cast, and of course you're going through there and picking pockets.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're not
[SPEAKER_04]: That crankbait's very likely not in play all the way from the structure to the boat, you know, necessarily you're really picking those specific spots as you go through, so you'll get out to get it back, get it out to get it back and do so accurately every time matters, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it changes when you go into like your traditional deep crankbaits, you know, like I said, not the not the 10 next these stuff, but like the traditional deep crankbaits, you know, I was talking about you go into that seven and a half foot length.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can lengthen that handle up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say short handle, I took a measurement off one earlier before we got on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, square bill rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking like a 10 11.
[SPEAKER_00]: 12 inch from butt to trigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, okay, perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, that's what I'm measuring as a hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about 10 or 12 inch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, he cranking rods when we start getting into the seven and a half footers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I want like a 14 is, you know, really, 14, 14 and it's just barely longer than the other ones, but you notice it when you're casting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, grab that buddy in and rarer into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right here for it feels like you're this for 12, 10, 11, 12, but when you go 13, it feels like you've got a whole different leverage behind mechanically you do biomechanically you do you're right a lot more into that when you can use both hands and y'all your muscle groups.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a 13, 14 on a crank and rod is what the numbers that I would put if you really want to get technical on links handle links.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the numbers I would go towards.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some I picked up crank and rods that have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Incredible handles on them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean like super long ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great for certain things like the 10 next day like right crankbait because then you're tucking it in your armpit and you are just
[SPEAKER_00]: Howling into that real need that handle for a different thing and that's like a perfect for survival.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so you don't get pulled out of the boat exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of plays into it, but that's some links that I'll lean towards more for traditional fishing and put numbers to put numbers to words.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess to help it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That I'm sure somebody's gonna be watching go and I want to know the exact.
[SPEAKER_04]: No they are and I'm so glad you said that because I was gonna ask you and you offered it pro actively so you know 10 inch 11 inch 12 inch on the square on the square bill kind of 16 to 7 foot rod and that's from the terminal butt to the trigger and then when you start going to these 7-6 rods you know more than the 13 to 14 inch range from the terminal butt to the trigger.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have a preference on the butt?
[SPEAKER_04]: You like just a regular you like a mushroom
[SPEAKER_00]: But can't be like a piece of EVA or core, like what do you, I love EVA handles.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something that I've, I love a core candle, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, any core.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I've picked up some stuff before that I like.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, a lot of companies now days like a alumus or a job.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know exactly the core of the youth, but they make great, they have great core.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it does so much for a rod that people do, they're just, they're paying a lot for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The other quality is continue to go down and the cost is continue to go up.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you, if you get a rod like that, you get your lumists that's got our dobbins that's got a good core grip on us because they love you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they care about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: English.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not because it's easy your teeth exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something that you whether you're buying or building, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take my word for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want court to go go out and it's a treat.
[SPEAKER_00]: You will you will thank me later.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, only do it if you wanted to last more than about two years.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you don't care about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I was about to say I've got the frauds that I've played around the lower end rock court and they fall apart past high end ones that are older than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it seems like a long I can't
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have it on a lot of rods because it's just such a such a unique feel like it's thrown out of rods and then you pick up an EVA like for the first time, so neat and it feels good in the hand, hands get wet, it feels good, you still feel like got good good traction.
[SPEAKER_00]: wind grip is like a wind grip style is another one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you guys do you like the kind of well they've you know they were big for a while and then they sort of got we're waffling around about the originally in the golf business and then they the quality went way downhill and I don't even know if they're making grips anymore we Fuji had some dedicated grips made if it Fuji seats by them and we had to discontinue him because the quality wasn't sustaining where we needed it to be but
[SPEAKER_04]: the good ones back in the day when they were making them like they make the golf club grips were very comfortable and had a really good grip texture to them and they offered you a lot of colors which again whether that's an important aspect or not within custom rod building it is you get someone who wants a yellow grip well not only have so many choices right so it's nice to have a yellow or red or whatever wind grip available it's a shame that their quality sort of went down hill but um
[SPEAKER_04]: And do you like, so this is another thing that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, I feel like a lot of crankbait anglers have a very set opinion.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's not right or wrong.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like we already talked about preference and what your dad likes, y'all are both excellent crankbait fishermen, but you might like something different.
[SPEAKER_04]: He likes glass, you like carbon.
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have a preference about a one-piece handle versus split grips on cranking rods?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, handle or split grip, you mean like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, it's, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a preference.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a preference.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a very big preference.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love a full handle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a lot of crank.
[SPEAKER_00]: They guys do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's weird because like I said, I've got every kind of rod out there in the shop 90% of them are split.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just kind of the norm.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have got some full handles that are my favorite rods in the corner because they're that I love that fool.
[SPEAKER_00]: full handle feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that plays a lot too with bounce of the ride and I'm always a butt heavy ride.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're building a ride, I know you know this, but I'll say it for the people listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you build a ride and it's tip heavy, you've lost.
[SPEAKER_00]: almost half your sensitivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something that people have to understand because I have picked up custom made rods and you pick them up and it's just, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this rod's not gonna be as sensitive as it should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a big part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, back to the full handle or split handle preference preference preference.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love both, I really like the feel of a full handle.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's another great reason for custom, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You have it every one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Play around with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you try and both, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can, if not, go, go to a store and pick up some, you know, go to a best price shops and walk down the aisle and just fill them and see what you and, you know, go from there, but it's going to be different for everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say on that topic,
[SPEAKER_00]: Those guys are die hard to court try the EVA those guys are die hard EVA try the court got seriously everybody's got something to learn right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's there's something there's something to learn there but the EVA full court or full EVA would be
[SPEAKER_00]: a really cool build in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I know some guys can build you one like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, you just gotta tell us when the time is right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I will officially make it Jack Baron's job until he finishes it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not allowed to do any marketing or communication stuff until he finishes a rod for you if you know he's facing.
[SPEAKER_00]: two customs not too long ago.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know and he made videos of him and they've done really really well, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: So any of that stuff you need, you know, you just got to call us.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're happy to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We love the notion of that stuff being out on tour and helping somebody bring home the bacon, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: So a little while back, we put a pin in and we've referenced several times, but let's let's go back to
[SPEAKER_04]: And, and assuming, I think a lot of people are tracking right with us.
[SPEAKER_04]: Most bass anglers are picking up what you're laying down and know everything we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: But really, the Strike King 10xD was one of the really first very different baits.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a huge bait with a huge lip and it reaches huge depths.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was like either beautiful or a monstrosity when it first came out, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Depending on, and I remember thinking, man, I would not want to have to pull on one of those all day.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if that's where the fish are, and that's what they want, and that's what you got to do to catch them, thank goodness you have that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you mentioned the A to XD, which is a slightly smaller, slightly shallower run in version.
[SPEAKER_04]: And since this bait has come out and been so successful, and really wildly successful on tour,
[SPEAKER_04]: frankly, you know, there's there's other iterations and so now we have a lot of these, you know, like I know the DRT, Policize, one Jack's always got me looking for one inch pan.
[SPEAKER_04]: All these random obscure base, the Japanese isn't even heard of and I'm supposed to find him when I'm over there for 10 days.
[SPEAKER_04]: But so these really, it is a different animal.
[SPEAKER_04]: It almost looks more like a musky bait or a salt
[SPEAKER_04]: you've referenced that this is a totally different animal several times.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about that one a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you did you did mention that you still stay with like some 12 or 14 pound floro.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: You mentioned that you'll drop to a lower gear ratio for those great big baits.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you also mentioned a longer handle and what about Rod linked and all that like talking me through
[SPEAKER_04]: obviously that's a different deal but talk to me about the specialized gear that you're picking up when you're dialing into that particular when you have no choice but to dial into that particular it's like y'all have never thrown on it's like telling a water skier with your rod and real all day it is yeah it's like telling someone on a tube all day cranking this thing
[SPEAKER_00]: First let's dive into this and this will explain a lot about what we're talking about and I mentioned touched on this earlier and then it's going to lead right into the 10xD deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here's the biggest thing that people have to wrap their head around when it comes to crankbait fishing is these travel hooks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is the one the one point out and I just might be hard to say I'll throw my hand up behind it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The one and not everybody's watching like a lot of people be listening, but we're looking at a little one point out of square bill with a relatively small treble on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like a size six, a size.
[SPEAKER_00]: four, five, it's probably hooked on a regular soccer bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine this, next time you guys at home are looking at, you know, your crankbase, I'm not going to take this to all get said.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the next time you're looking at the treble hooks on your crankbait, you know, whether it's a 2.5, 1.5 or 3.5 size, whatever it might be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine this, you look at your square, or your crank your treble hook, it's three hooks and and people tend to forget this, but you held it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you covered the two of the three.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have more.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a very big hook.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tiny hook, the all arm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even on a two point, a number four, number five, there's a number six, but a number four, like you're not throwing a big hook.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're not, now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can flex these things with your hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just really have to think about
[SPEAKER_00]: It's way more finesse than he think it is and that's where that softer rod comes in the play a lot of this is accounting for the small hooks help you get hooked up stay hooked up yeah it might look like a big hook
[SPEAKER_00]: And understand that we're a lot of that rod comes into account for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The biggest mistake that you see crank make fishing with guys is I 32 heavy of a rod, yeah, it doesn't allow those hooks to do their job or it affects those hooks.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't allow the rod doesn't play into the jumping, the running, the loading up that we talked about earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, then I'll get a drink for this is the big one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you get into a 10x big.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want this hook for those of you watching for those of you not.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a big freaking trouble.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a beast of a hook.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a heavy, you can't flex this one with your fingers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not gonna break this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like a saltwater.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like a size two or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's huge.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason that they're that big on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now granted, I've taken 10x these and put lighter wire hooks on them over the years and stuff playing around.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a reason most of your hooks on these giant crankbaits are so big.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because now you're going to a rod that is it's sole purpose is to throw that big thing out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell a lot of skier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is big bait fishing a lot of bad bait fishing or swim bait fishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going into big bait fishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're looking less for that real soft load that
[SPEAKER_00]: That finessey rod that's conducive for these hooks and these everybody pates right how you're going into something that you're trying to just get it out there and get it down there Yep, get back in So you're going to like a longer seven footer up or seven and eight even an eight footer You know, and we're going into like heavy moderate fast now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep
[SPEAKER_00]: And really and truly, you're trying to get down there and when that fish eats, you just want that rod to load up a little bit parabolic way.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not trying to get that real soft, you just put some load throughout that rod, because it's a different hook and that's the thing is that hooks easy, you're going to be able to drive that big hook and you don't have to worry near as much about flexing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: any of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you hook on on a big bait like that, you see a lot of guys go watch Brandon Pollock.
[SPEAKER_00]: For throwing one, they hook them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get that rod down a lot of times in the water and rich them to the boat because it is a it is a Mike Tyson boxing ring fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right nothing general of finance about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's your general bait is a big fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same way with a glide bait.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see the guys get into them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are
[SPEAKER_00]: So they get there and boat flip them.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, you're taking the finesse side out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're looking more for a ride that you can comfortably throw something that big on more than you are all the little details we talked about earlier with the, which makes perfect sense because it's just a totally different application, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a big fish on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you want the longer handle, you know, you might go in the two, like a 15 inch handle or something, but it's a totally different beast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the guy is that are really good,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they might be listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're a big glad-baked fisherman or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be able to wrap their head around a rod for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot quicker than a guy that fishes the Ohio River and throws these little big square bills for 12 inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: That jump.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is going to be a totally different ball size.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's huge orders of magnitude different animal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it really is closer to salt water fishing or musky fish and then most of the best stuff you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of have to with the biggest thing that you have to think about with all this.
[SPEAKER_00]: is trouble looks because you're not though in a big hook, you might have three and having the perfect rod especially on the on the traditional size crankbait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what it accounts for, you know, you're gonna have the days where those fish are eating it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're getting in the crushers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, joking.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they get in the corner of the mouth and they've got two of your three of the treble right yeah and this is a you catch that fish on a flip and stick you know right right but the day where That six pounder nips that back hook and he's got one of your treble hooks and it's skin and that's where that perfect rod comes into play for laying in that fish and the way I tell people is like
[SPEAKER_00]: The guys are throwing seven foot medium heavy fast and they're like, I had this works fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, it works fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you had a good crankbait rod, it's going to great when they're eating it good when they're eat great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you get that giant that barely got a hold of it, you're going to play into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know when that's coming, I mean, yeah, never when you expect it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone you expect it, but you don't be caught with your pants down when that has a wrong thing in your hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it's, it's, it's just comes down to cover and all basics with a great crankbait rod.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know it's interesting you said this you said it a couple of times and it's so interesting I've never really thought of crankbaiting because I think of it as power fishing I've never really thought of it as finesse but as I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm thinking about it and I'm looking at these hooks that's the first time I've ever had someone show me that demo where you're hired two of the three of the treble hooks you just look at the one I really haven't thought about the hooks that way before
[SPEAKER_04]: because it is a big hook, you know, that's really it's much closer to finesse fishing than it is anything else.
[SPEAKER_04]: It reminds me of all the stuff we're trying to get them with BFS, you know, or fishing, fishing for fresh water trout with tiny little moving lures with travel hooks and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's it's the same principles.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's that's fascinating stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to confess, I probably was around in that corner a little bit, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Just because I don't think a 12 pound line is finesse, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But it doesn't mean that it's not, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: We talked about the term, I'm always curious, because you guys are so dialed, and I know you're so intentional and specific about every single detail of every single thing you do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about the hardware and the knots for a second, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know this is mostly about the rods, and you've done a beautiful job of covering that
[SPEAKER_04]: are you a big swap out your hooks and split rings and stuff kind of person are you doing that I mean they've gotten so much better like I remember a day when the only thing you got was like a not very sharp Aberdeen hook that was crummy and you know what I mean and so we're buying high quality hooks and swapping them out and and I still do some of that saltwater and stuff like
[SPEAKER_04]: risk of asking you to give away secrets all so I'm not trying to have you give way any juice that you you know work years and years to have in competition but are you are you starting with them out of the box or you sweatshen them does it depend are you playing with sizes for buoyancy and different applications you mentioned downsizing to experiment like talk to me about the hooks and the and the terminal a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the biggest thing when it comes to, for me, I'll practice fish internment with stock hooks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll, I'll, I'll fund fish with stock hooks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stock hooks are great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they, they're just gotten better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, and I know, so I remember when I was a kid by bandit, you know, 200s, and they had, and it's nothing that gets banded or great dates, but they were terrible hooks.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were, they were, they were janky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh you know oftentimes most time for like a tournament yeah i'm changing my hooks out okay now i like like a rio gi or an hikawa that seems it seems to be where i'm i've been towards um
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not saying bad about stock hooks, it's just an tournament.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need that little bit of edge, you know, that little, I can't leave any stone unturned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a short piece and crawler dot oh my eyes across all my teas.
[SPEAKER_00]: So fish for half a million bucks, man, every bite matters.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, seriously, I mean, that's it, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like,
[SPEAKER_04]: But do you so I've heard different people like some people say okay if I'm going to be throwing in cover I'm going to go with a heavier hook and some of you will actually go the opposite say I'm actually going to stay with a lighter hook around the cover and if I get stuck I can bend it out of there and I don't lose the bait I lose the hook like thoughts or guidance on that kind of stuff or or modifications besides just replacing for during the actual weigh-in days tournament days going with the best hook you can possibly get you messing around with with sizes
[SPEAKER_00]: not really running through heavy cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to tend to go towards like a must add triple grip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a KVD triple grip.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's it's got a little bit more slightly inward geometry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it comes through cover a little bit better size wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I normally try to keep it close to stock.
[SPEAKER_00]: It times where
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to overdo over size them a lot of times, but did I kind of affect the bait action, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why, and that action, but that triple grip coming through cover does a lot for me because it keeps it from getting hung up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we said, the inward inward of the points and fish get a hold of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: A triple grip is great for holding on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I just said, I'm big right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get each of you, each you call a fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hooks, but that is one time where I tend to lean out and go towards like a
[SPEAKER_00]: And apply that for real and through cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's rebel hook in the sense that when they get it, they're pretty much locked in to it most of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and when you're real at through heavy cover, a lot of those fish are going to be reacting to it quick, and they normally eat really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Normally when I'm fishing those laid-downs and stomps,
[SPEAKER_00]: That reaction bite is very aggressive and they eat it very well.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like that chatterbait bite where they knock it slack.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a it's something where I feel like I'm going to get a better chance at that fish getting out whole that bait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is real in it down rock banks here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something the the Ryugu used to the easy car.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going for strictly as sharp as I can get.
[SPEAKER_00]: for that one that barely gets a back hook or whatever it might be.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's good advice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you're not familiar with either of these brands of Japanese hooks, extremely high quality, chemically sharp and very hard, very strong for diameter wire that kind of hooks that don't bend much and will break instead of bend, but it takes a lot to break one.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a premium hook for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a notable, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: an honorable mention as far as that goes is the gamma got to g for ask for those of you that will get a tackle store and probably find them just about anywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was debating where there's going to ask you like where you're getting your huge there out here because there aren't there's still hard to find out I brought some I was just in Japan and I brought some talismans and some other stuff back as like I can get my hands on them here like I know Taka Warehouse and some people have them but they're never in stock and I sign up for the notify me if you don't click that email like the second
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want something that's more readily accessible and still phenomenal, go into that light wire strong extremely short.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to G for this is a great stand by.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I carry a lot of them in the boat with me because there's times where, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a bag of, right, you know, I've got a bag of each of your car was I've got a bag that's got some of the must add some of the I always keep them with me just in just in case I need them and I have plenty of confidence that I want to go I'm a god to one there sure I'm not sitting there go when
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good hook.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good hook for those of you who want to be able to go find it easily.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and talks to me about not you got to prefer not.
[SPEAKER_04]: I tie a poem more on everything that I throw in man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a strong knot.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a, it's a consistent knot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all you need them is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have had people ask me for years, leader knots.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what a tie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eastern father, you'll tell it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not an FG.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know one leader not I know one regular not I mean I know like a sense not or whatever Yeah, like I'm on everything save it for your anchor group right like that So it works it's it's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's as tough as it gets.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I don't have not to come undone I don't I don't know that's time I had to not come undone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go All the good things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what was that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, man, this has been awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: This I selfishly I look forward to talking to guys competing at your level just because I always learned something.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys are so dialed and it spent so much time being thoughtful about it and have learned so much from actual practical experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like one of the things you were talking about, you know, we're talking about before we started recording is that we share a
[SPEAKER_04]: God help me my wife ever sells all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it, you know, that would be a bad bad day for everybody, but but there's an element of, you know, results talk and everything else walks and, and while generally I feel like you mostly get what you pay for.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you can, you know, buy once cry once, get the best you can stand and it's usually worth it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, there's hits and misses and the only way to know for sure is to try and use it yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: So for someone who's deliberately tweaked and experimented for so many years in a competitive environment, just to try to get better yourself and get better results for you to be willing to kind of...
[SPEAKER_04]: Let us look behind the curtain and draft off you a little bit and learn from you is just immensely valuable And I definitely learned some things today.
[SPEAKER_04]: I haven't built a crank and rod in a while, but this is the action I love love love for my top water rods to the same kind of You know, just action that you're talking about and it's it's
[SPEAKER_04]: They're not as common as they once were, but, man, when you get it, I can't remember the last time I had a, like one of my favorite things in the world is spring and summer on gunners will throw in reaction innovations, vixen, and I don't know what it is about that bait on that lake, but, and knock on wood watch, I'll go lose a hundred fish next year, but I can't remember ever since I went to that software, I can't remember.
[SPEAKER_04]: The last time I had one come on button, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I haven't gotten that much better as an angler.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just purely the equipment helping you instead of fighting against you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's the same kind of concept with the, I don't know why it's easy for me to think of that as finesse and keep in the fish button, but I don't always think that way about crankbaits.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, another thing to note too is when we're talking about building a perfect crankbait rod or getting a perfect crankbait rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: a crankbait rod can also be used for a lot of other things, you know, a crankbait rod can be great for throwing a chatterbait.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a totally different wormhole we're not going to care, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I thought about asking that question, we need to get you back and do a whole episode on chatterbait rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, that's a huge whole another conversation, but to keep it short, a crankbait rod can be a great chatterbait rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, without, you know, diving off into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could make rock can be great for throwing a lipless.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be great for throwing a jerk mate, maybe not if it's though in glass, because it's going to wear you out, but not like those shoulder ones that we were talking about earlier.
[SPEAKER_04]: Some sized top waters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, up water's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just a bunch that can be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a moving bait rod, yeah, essentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of that can kind of come into play.
[SPEAKER_00]: If a guy goes and builds a,
[SPEAKER_00]: a seven foot medium heavy or medium moderate crankbait rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can probably get away with throwing a three eight-ounce chatterbait on a half-ounce chatterbait as well as the Vixen's, the big top water's, the trash, lipless babies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even if it's not glass, you're not going to wear yourself out.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to be done with a good crankbait rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially treble hook department, but even some stuff
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's just interesting that it seems like the fashion has been towards the faster rods and everybody's like I think there's some anglers who maybe haven't even tried that more moderate like you're saying pair of all the action it's sweet can do a lot it can help you you know what I mean can do a lot of things for you can be pleasant to fish not not that it's for everything right I don't want to drive a great big single hook home at depth with that but but that's not what I'm trying to do with it right so
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, man, as we sit here recording this, where the week after Thanksgiving, it's the first week of December.
[SPEAKER_04]: Weather's terrible.
[SPEAKER_04]: Everywhere.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's terrible here in Alabama.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's terrible.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know you say it's drizzling and cold.
[SPEAKER_04]: There in Arkansas, but you guys get ready to get the season cranked up on what is your schedule look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're, it's actually exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get to start off in Alabama at Gunnersville and like Martin, so that'll be something neat.
[SPEAKER_00]: That will.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of, you know, always say it's such, it's so weird to fish all winter around here.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then completely switch gears and go to Florida to start.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love, I've always done well in Florida, but it's a complete switch of gears to get to my share and start.
[SPEAKER_00]: to winter fish and then go into winter fishing to start the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it will be cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, we've got two ground or river tournaments this year, where I'm going to be deployed building and chatterbait in a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we go to some just unique places at unique times.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we go to the center.
[SPEAKER_00]: Carolina is in fish and places that should be really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, of course, we end the year small mouth fishing up north.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a good season.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be unique.
[SPEAKER_00]: the big and the most unique part is going to be starting out in Florida.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, yeah, I'm going to bring in a totally different deal for the people at home watching.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll selfishly given that I'm an Alabama.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad you guys are starting here because to me, get into a way in and getting to hang out on the next person was way bigger, but I hadn't thought about that difference in seasonal transition.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a it is a big difference.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll see, or watch, we'll have the hottest, we'll have the warmest winter ever, we won't make any difference at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll be so efficient, it gutters well, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like who knows?
[SPEAKER_04]: who knows, but then try to figure out the weather.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, but it's going to be a good station.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a lot of neat stuff on the in the playbook this year on the schedule.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I've got to tell you, I've talked to a lot of lead series anglers.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've never talked to anyone.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got a better looking hat on than you've got right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Look at that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that hat too.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's my very favorite.
[SPEAKER_04]: more and out but it is my faith no no that's my favorite one to carry word it red wolf laser works makes us for us and i have never been i don't know that i've ever had another hat with a patch on it but man i love that one this one is good it's my favorite one too i've put a small on my face when you got on and you weren't it
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go to my social media, the people at home, you will see this hat on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm one of those guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when I find a good fit and a comfortable hat, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll wear it until the threads come out.
[SPEAKER_04]: You and me both, brother.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm glad you brought up your social media.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's give it to everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the best way to follow you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Bow rounding fishing on Instagram and Facebook.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great way to keep up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instagram is going to be at least as of right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: regular publishing Facebook kind of has some tournament covered on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not here to the scale and your Instagram, you're going to see the fish in the hunt and the round the house with the dog, the with Gus, Gus, the menace down here as you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm feeling bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've talked to you so long.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like I got to let you go seeing throw ball for guess He's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trust me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's drizzling rain outside and go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going out there to throw ball.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh Well, you can throw it you can throw it inside and tear everything up, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I've seen that movie with a golden before.
[SPEAKER_04]: What could possibly go wrong?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's he's big and clumsy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a lot of good stuff on my social media and then as of every year, I'm trying to get better and better with with showing the behind-the-scenes stuff and the true life of a professional fisherman.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just what they see on camera.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know via bass master, what are you going to put up hours and hours and hours and hours of highway trailer footage driving because that y'all've drive more than you think we Master people realize how much y'all drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are professional road warriors literally literally Human said there's a I mean I know
[SPEAKER_00]: this morning, I was doing work on my trailer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a flat with everyone's, it never ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like, it happens on the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: It happens at home is just, we've got lots of mechanics that go on as far as working on boats and trailers and everything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a whole other side to it, other than having a walk in across the stage and then, oh, yeah, out of the grass.
[SPEAKER_04]: behind the scenes yeah uh that top 10 that makes the way in on the final day you didn't see the other that are driving home already had it to go to the next place to practice right like
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other deal is to on on the social media, as you can reach out, God, around here in Central Auckland.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, nice, which likes do you got on Lake Washington?
[SPEAKER_00]: Lake Hamilton and Lake Degree.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can, I like everything, but Cropi, I we can go fish for.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like Cropi fish, and I don't have any shame in saying that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, there you go.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, at least you know what you like.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't, if y'all never fish, Washington, it is, it is in the middle of the Washington National Forest.
[SPEAKER_04]: And.
[SPEAKER_04]: Managed by the, I guess, the core and the Department of Interior.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you can't just bulldoze a piece of the shoreline and put up a dock or a resort or a lake or anything like it's very regulated and it is literally one of the most beautiful lakes I have ever been on.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like a lake that time forgot.
[SPEAKER_04]: Love that lake and it's excellent fishing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_04]: Strippers large mouth small mouth.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's guys catching trout near the damn parts of it There's walleye and soccer there's great catfish fishery.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a great crappy fisheries I hear you you're not interested in not going to push that on you not my thing but we can go catch 45 pound stripers
[SPEAKER_04]: All the fun stuff well my father and I spent father and lawn I spent so much time on there You know it we used to fish like there you probably know the lake pretty well They they kept up he kept his boat at Mountain Harbor and so we hit a bunch of places by there and there was a place there Trout pins there's a point at 18 there's a couple places we go all the time and it would happen like once
[SPEAKER_04]: or twice a summer, you'd be out there.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're just chasing spotted bass mostly, but there'll be some large mouth in with them.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're all trying all our different Japanese top waters and all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we had gotten to where we were super tuned in these little JDM, Scorpion 1,000 Reels, and you're like eight pound monodes, Cassie's tying 65.
[SPEAKER_04]: And all of a sudden, scourge, you know, and it's like, I mean, it's nothing to catch a 25 pound stripper on that lake.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: And you were not expecting that on your,
[SPEAKER_04]: on your, on your tiny little, you know, okay, topwater gear, it's, it's pretty sporty.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And every once in a while, we'd be going through a, you just come around a bend and there just be an acre of strippers, just bring it, you know, crazy, crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, it's a, it's a great lake.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: We, we have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the coolest fisheries right here and beautiful fisheries right the natural state They call it that for a reason.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm I was just out there trout fishing in northern Arkansas And I'm gonna be taking my son up there again and in January weather weather and scheduled permitting We're scheduled.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope it's gonna happen, but yeah, if y'all have never fish washed all or order gray or Hamilton like How do they how's the best way for them to get in touch TV email?
[SPEAKER_00]: So either go in on my Instagram and message in me or give me a bow-rounding at Yahoo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's B-E-A-U.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: B-E-A-U.
[SPEAKER_04]: As God intended it, not B-O.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, man, this has been awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for taking the time to walk us through this.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we have a, we have a, I should have brought it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll show it to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have a ferocious fantasy fishing pool here in our office.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I decided last year, I'm running our guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's who the people that we sponsor.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you know, when you go in a tournament, I pick you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the penalty of me losing is like, I listen to Jack talk trash.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Jack actually didn't win is one of these ironic turns of events.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's me our sales guy Aaron low Who we call a a Ron.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Jack who who knows a lot of you guys personally is followed I'm close in everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: He really should probably it'd be like the rest of us going against the Vegas handicap He probably ought to smoke us right and then David I Clanton my purchasing guy and who wins in the inaugural year with this championship belt We got made like it's the real deal David
[SPEAKER_04]: David I was doing well and I forgot to I made selections late for a tournament I got confused on the schedule and even though I got the text I don't know what happened I somehow the text didn't make me pick a team and so I was out and then I think Jack I don't remember how Jack's wheels fell off But anyway David's been very hard to live with ever since he he beat us so it's like
[SPEAKER_04]: I need anybody but David to win.
[SPEAKER_04]: So no pressure, no pressure.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, catch them, catch them dude.
[SPEAKER_04]: I need you, I need you for, for, I know you're just trying to, you know, make a living and feed yourself and have a future and everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: But there's those of us out here need you in our office.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting to think those.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm really glad they, they talked me into doing that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had no idea how fun that was going to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, get your little earned a fast track live up dates and all this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: that's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll try to pull the way to the team then.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're counting on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: No pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So y'all look bow up, go fishing with him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And man, I think you're going to have a great season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I said, I'll be back in y'am looking forward to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really appreciate you taking the time to be on with us.
[SPEAKER_04]: And please tell your dad.
[SPEAKER_04]: I said hello.
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to, you and me and Jack were supposed to fish and we got weathered out.
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to do that again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I know your schedule is probably as bad or worse than ours, but you need to just let us know.
[SPEAKER_04]: As a time when is the time we can come do that, um, I really want to have this Swimbait glide bait versus BFS challenge me and Jack we're going to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, but we got the place to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, and there will be no losers in that deal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's going to be awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're video the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we can do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We can do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, man, thank you so much for your time and thanks everybody for tuning in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please remember to like and subscribe and download wherever you get your podcast content.
[SPEAKER_04]: Until then, we'll see you on the next episode of Mastering Rod Building.