[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Lorehounds podcast where the Lorehounds your guides the psychohistry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm John.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is our coverage of Foundation on Apple TV+.
[SPEAKER_05]: Season 3 episode 9, the paths that choose us.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to get in contact with us, please send us an email to empireethelorhouns.com or head over to our Discord server from the link tree in the show nuts to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a wonderful people and have some cool discussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you like what you've heard and you want to support us or get ad free and bonus content, check that same link tree for our Patreon and supercast subscription options.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, if you want to support us without spending any money, you can just leave us a review on Apple Podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Five-star preferably, but, you know, you do you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really does help us in the chart for some reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why that is such a key metric for Apple, but it appears to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, algorithm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we don't have time for SEO tonight, Maryland.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got a lot of gruesome undertakings to talk about tonight.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_05]: What, uh, I wonder what their budget is for fake blood.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, because they're not sparing it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's just put it that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's a pretty budget friendly item these days.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fake blood compared to the death star.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's low on their list of worries for David Goyer.
[SPEAKER_05]: or compared to diathenous clouds of colorful satin for a certain character with the real later on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what would you think overall?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm just loving it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am loving it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how they're going to land this plane, but wow, I hope they do well because they've certainly been giving us a wonderful, wonderful TV.
[SPEAKER_05]: I still call it TV.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I don't know what you want to call it, but anyway, no, I like the way they're visually representing a number of actions
[SPEAKER_05]: that I've only ever read about before.
[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, you could do that in so many different ways, but I like what they've picked.
[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, one or two almost accessible in others, but that's the expected.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're definitely ratching up the tensions in several plotlines, but they're still leaving enough mysteries for book readers.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we're all very much involved with it all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and, you know, all of you are also, don't know what's happening yet if they haven't seen the, if they haven't read the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have seen some wild theories about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you are probably very wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, there's, I will say there is a chance that all the book readers are being led in one direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, we, I haven't watched the finale yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you have either.
[SPEAKER_05]: Last time I checked, it hasn't even cut gone live yet, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do have it now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we do have it now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I did it today, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have not watched it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's very possible that I've been duped and the show of our spoiler corner talk has been for not.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: If that happens, I will not, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, I don't want to risk it in the game particularly, but I just, I'm fully aware that they could be leading us book readers down the Garden Path, it's all of this, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think that's part of the fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, it's not knowing because this show has taken such a turn from the book in a lot of ways and I like that because it's a it's its own story It's selling a modern story using the same sort of chess pieces as as I'm not used right more or less Some new ones yeah, they're on and if you just pieces Does I'm degree he might not have appreciated, but that's okay You know, it's not his this is not his version of the story so well We've actually brought Isaac as my one to the show to give his thoughts and
[SPEAKER_01]: And which medium are you using for this say that's John I'm from New York so the Long Island medium Okay, gotta be it, you know, but she's Theresa she's the only one for us.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I trust you Are you aware of this?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like a reality show.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, never heard of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah This was like a whole big thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was the Long Island medium and she she had her own reality show Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well anyway those of you who know will know of course
[SPEAKER_01]: I, too, was very impressed by this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that we are going down interesting paths.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't honestly think that that's what Dusk was going to do with his big boy weapon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that they caught the mule by surprise in a lot of ways, which was a welcome twist to the mule, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We needed some resistance, which back on that plot line a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was winning a little too easily.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and also we need to see him non-plused on the back foot, you know, he is not completely invulnerable to anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think everybody was astounded and horrified.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, certainly quent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I mean overall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say even the even the plotlines that I was less of a fan of last episode like the X-Men plotline I'm still gonna call them the X-Men every now and then, but you know talent Gillan friends going like I I didn't really love like the tactical team of the second foundations Just landing on terminus earlier in the fall asleep, but I do like the way that they're handling that to and I love the way that she first while her and Harry together Are always at the light to watch
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way that they do that exposition was really, really smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, improved the last season finale for me, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think one of my questions was how the heck did you get that many people on the ball?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And don't ask me to explain the physics of it, but at least we get an explanation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, look, it's magic disguised as math for the show.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you call on the XM and I call him the dirty dozen minus 7.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right fair enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, why don't we get right into it?
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got plenty to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought this was going to be a hard one to outline, but in the end, I got it down to the same amount of scenes as I got last time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I took care of that with all I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna get through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna hold your hand all the way to the end folks.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I don't need my hand held.
[SPEAKER_05]: You might feel like you want to pull me back with.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying we're holding we're collectively holding a listener's hand through the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Listener.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're driving, you should have two hands on the wheel.
[SPEAKER_05]: Please, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: The second foundation is on the hunt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gail baits the Mules forces into following her into the forest, she captures warden Fallen Greer and takes a look into her mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: As Gail interrogates Greer subconscious, a projection of the Mule pulls the Greer under the water.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of her subconsciousness, drowning her in both dream and reality, preacher arrives and brings them to a group of refugees, refugees, Gail checks them each for conversion and finds
[SPEAKER_01]: and head to the vault.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, we learned one interesting little factoid when the downed warden is floating over the fact that they knew that Gail had arrived.
[SPEAKER_05]: Gail said, yeah, I wanted you to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I liked that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just landing right by the vault.
[SPEAKER_01]: That seemed very silly to me last episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if they were trying to beat someone, I think that was, you know, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the perfect thing to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_05]: of when gale is a reading quote unquote reading mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: This beautiful room, there's wood, there's stone, this candlelight.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's, what a lovely way to visually represent someone poking around in somebody else's subconscious.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, it gets very dramatic with, you know, but drowning and all rest of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I just, I just thought that was really nice.
[SPEAKER_05]: I enjoyed that a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that that was actually supposed to be Synex.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was supposed to be like a play on the Synex.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, she has been referred to as the girl from the water planet, hasn't she?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we actually saw something like that with the Synex temple or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have to go back and re-watch season one again.
[SPEAKER_05]: I remember is they, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, when she goes back at some point or maybe it's later on in the development that their sacred temple is at water level now and everything is at water and there's sometimes they're walking along walkways that are under two inches of water or that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and I don't think that this is what anybody sees when going into a subconscious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a scale.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sense of someone's unconscious subconscious.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's just
[SPEAKER_05]: think it's subconscious.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now that I think of it, John, you're right.
[SPEAKER_05]: That building, quote, unquote, reminded me of a lot of the interiors of the buildings on X and X. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It makes sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, if you will, these are the things that built her sense of self and her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: because that's what the sub-conscious should look like, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which was her place to find peace and meditate and pray and whatever else she needed to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that would make sense that that's her base to start poking around somebody in.
[SPEAKER_05]: And study Kelly's ninth proof of the folding in by candlelight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, what we learn is the warden actually chose to die.
[SPEAKER_05]: rather than to grab the lifeline that Gail was so in her and to do what she said so or or preach that so when he gets there yeah so it was not it was her choice to actually say yeah no I don't want I don't want you to dreamy I've never known such love that's it
[SPEAKER_05]: It was so lovely to see the self-worth's current, and yeah, and I know you probably rolled your eyes when it happened, but I just- I didn't mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the connection.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the connection.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the less cringy, you points of salvage was part line.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was the connection, the mother dotter connection, and you know, calling heads, calling cats.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I have to think it was pretty painful for Gail to see this current day, Warden.
[SPEAKER_05]: in a lot of what she knows about the position and how it was originally designed and of course the fact that her daughter enacted it for so long and became rightly very famous as the warden and now you know it's seeming to be something rather different.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now I have a question for you when Pritch shows up he warns them to say don't
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't communicate without speaking.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't communicate from mind to mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or just me don't speak out loud.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just want to make sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, he meant don't do the psychic stuff because that's more easily detectable.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because the bill is got all the psychic channels on you.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I figured that's what it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think they established this term last season and they just haven't used it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they did.
[SPEAKER_05]: They did.
[SPEAKER_05]: But somehow on the context, I don't know what I think he means this, but does he?
[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, Gail checks him to make sure that he hasn't been turned and right, and I like that he goes, no, of course you do that that's exactly exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he completely understands it to mid to immediately without feeling betrayed or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, he's very sensible, very sensible that way.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was Pritz, who tells her the Warden Providitor self from letting go of the
[SPEAKER_05]: says it's love, which is, um, kind of ghastly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's, it's really, yeah, really something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Finally, we see Maggie again, and we'll pull episodes without Maggie.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then there he is along with Ebbling Miss and Torin.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love Ebbling Miss's line.
[SPEAKER_05]: When he introduces, this is Gail Dornic, and Torin's those who's Gail Dornic.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's a real celebrity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to like, what the fuck are you kidding me?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And beta though, they both are like, oh, you may have seen our performance, you know, it's, yeah, they definitely have some egos going on there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, if you're going to be an influencer, I think you almost have to.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's kind of a first-prequisite.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: She tells the people that she reads, she's not writing around and the attic of your subconscious or the basement,
[SPEAKER_05]: she just looks to see who they love most.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if it's anybody other than the meal than they're fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: If it is the meal, well, then maybe you type them up or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if it was rise.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why has it heard to tell them that Pritches
[SPEAKER_05]: that she loves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, she doesn't know which loves the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't know a lot of these people, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, who knows?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess she knows that nobody's been secretly converted except for Magnifico.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, but even so, you know, the fewer bits of information you like drop the better in a situation like this, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, she specifically, this was silly because she has specifically called this out as a weak point, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: She has specifically called this out as a vulnerability in the organization, why would you go in broadcast that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why can she just be like, for example, preacher here loves his girlfriend, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Done.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I found it interesting when,
[SPEAKER_05]: She, well, first of all, my mom and I'm screaming.
[SPEAKER_05]: You haven't read Maggie yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's joyfully spilling all this information.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so it takes one of the members of her team to point out that she hasn't done this.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, oops, maybe, possibly.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when she begins to do so, the meal appears in the vision and wraps his arms around Maggie from behind.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's to me, he looked, he looked frightened, he looked scared and really very possessive.
[SPEAKER_05]: He looked like a small child whose toy might be taken away from him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, I didn't get that, but I think that's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, that's how I read it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he wasn't angry, he wasn't, you know, oh, you silly girl, what do you think you're trying to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, something like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, something else that I thought was really interesting about this is it appeared different than all the other sub-consciouses, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There was, I didn't notice any water kind of imagery.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was basically just him in the chair that he was in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wonder what that means.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this appears in different.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we know that Magnificor would have been an earlier conversion of the meal, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, what he says, what what Magnificor says is the meal saved me a long time ago, you get close and then love gets in, which seems to be the modus operand I generally, but then, interestingly, he adds, I love beta.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm loyal as an ink stain.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love that line.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, and so what is Magnificor trying to say here?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, no, no, trust me, I won't betray you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can serve both of my masters.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's trying to say.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's what he believes and I think he's being terribly naive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so too.
[SPEAKER_05]: But they're presenting him to us as a very naive character, so that gets, that fits.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and of course, the minute she tells them what she's seeing, all the phasers or whatever they call them get whipped out, and she says, no, no, no, no, no, it's all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've read his mind if he tries to betray us.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, which is interesting, because it's not like an in and out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Apparently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right, right and as you seem to touch people every time she goes in on like for me All who seems to be able to do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to know that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there's like a limitation of hers or But I don't think so because at other times She tells somebody to sleep when she's not touching them, and it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, so I I don't know Maybe like getting into this subconscious is something more intimate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's she wants to find a physical intimacy with too
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's what it's just going to say is that it seems that the sleep command can be done.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, as long as she has enough focus or whatever, but that careful reading and entering down through layers or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: When she's being a melatonin, now like, if you say.
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't need to touch anybody, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I guess.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'll stop now.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I love what she says.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to go to the one mind on new terminus who can't be converted.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yes, that's true, but even if he wasn't a holograph, I think he still couldn't convert vault areas might or I think you could, I don't, I don't think that there's a limit to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe, I'm just, I'm just reflecting on the stubbornness of our heritage.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is very stubborn.
[SPEAKER_05]: And adding points to it out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Evelyn says, you know, vault area isn't listening to anyone and
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, if she manipulates him with the false barmus, me, well, whatever, whatever, this is the only drawback to this kind of story where the altering of minds is a possibility.
[SPEAKER_05]: And even though Gail has made it clear that she can tell when Minds have been altered,
[SPEAKER_05]: once she's entered them, if they get changed, but she still has to go in a little way before she can actually determine the initial position as it were.
[SPEAKER_05]: You still have that question of, well, are they faking it?
[SPEAKER_05]: Have they been converted and they're hiding it?
[SPEAKER_05]: Leave some things
[SPEAKER_05]: tells Pritch and maybe the audience too, who might have forgotten that her daughter, Selver, could have crossed the Nulfield and Enter in because she had Gale's genes in her.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so she says, this was always my dream to make.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm the one to enter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't fully understand honestly why
[SPEAKER_01]: that would have been the case like why would gale jeans have been promoted to bypass an old field when she was supposed to live as a normal person on terminus.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think once Harry realized that the plans are going to change and that gale is going to have to take gracious place, part of the setting up of the vaults, including no field, but you know, whenever it was going to happen, you know, gales generate code,
[SPEAKER_05]: the car that unlocked the vault or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Walt Harry still had his primority and so he's still into the PR network and he he knew that that gal had taken over.
[SPEAKER_05]: Something like that, something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I buy it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Walt Harry's receives her by saying it's good to see you again because you know, that's nice.
[SPEAKER_05]: And maybe he even feels that way, who knows?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, there's being true here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've only watched the first episode of Alien Earth at this point, and I know that's a shame because I've heard it's very good so far, but in that first episode there was a whole bit where there's, you know, my old swelish for the first episode, but there's a synthetic human basically, and somebody who was a human is now in a robot body forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and she says, like, why don't I feel like anger like that anymore?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like visceral anger and and he's like, it's hormones.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have the hormone anymore, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They would have the glands.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have the chemicals.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I thought that was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder how much Harry, this Harry can feel that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Connection to Saturate Pratchett.
[SPEAKER_05]: in one of the many instances where, oh yes, yes, I was present and the ghost of the character rises up and says, why don't I feel angry?
[SPEAKER_05]: And that says, go dance.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you've lost all of those things that create emotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the series is so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, why don't we move on to Dusk making his play?
[SPEAKER_05]: Let us do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Demresiled Gathers a trio of traders to the audience chamber, a projection of Dusk appears and they get on a teleconference with the mule.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dusk sarcastically releases a treasonous offer, but then rejects it unveiling the novecular.
[SPEAKER_01]: With it, he destroys clarion station, the cloud dominion and the maiden.
[SPEAKER_01]: the mule considers what to do next and don't haunts him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a lot, huh?
[SPEAKER_05]: Ah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, before the whole meeting starts, he tells Don that Trantor is about to give an over to.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I want to know, how did he know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Have they already been in touch with him?
[SPEAKER_05]: The three?
[SPEAKER_01]: other entities to tell him that this is what we're going to do and we're going to try to give it's Leon but oh I thought he was just smart enough to be like they're going to think that they can give me a gift and make me go away.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's uh sure let's take the gift.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay because he was very specific.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah no yeah but at least torture in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the home world, so I think that that would be his thought to go to.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you don't think he's monitoring them from a distance or that one of them could be with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think he changes that much, whether he is or not.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just wondering if the galactic council people might have gotten in touch with him and said, look, years of it, we're planning we're going to have to bring the empire over.
[SPEAKER_05]: and let's see what happens.
[SPEAKER_05]: But they may not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, dusk makes his really dramatic appearance after Demorsel had already entered the throne room.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then when they say, well, we can't do anything without empire.
[SPEAKER_05]: She says, I am empire.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it may be wonder how many times
[SPEAKER_05]: in this series, as she said this before.
[SPEAKER_05]: It feels as though she's saying this more and more of these days.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which again, I find interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Quint, of course, as she has a bad feeling about this because, you know, she as a foundationer has a sense of the broad sweep of history.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's already had some experience with what the meal is like.
[SPEAKER_05]: But also, she's gotten to know her dusk a little bit too.
[SPEAKER_05]: She says, you mustn't back Empire into a corner like this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I wonder if this is an example of foundation wisdom.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, she studied the cases she's done her own work over the years.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: you don't push anybody into a corner because if you do, they're gonna come out swinging because they have no other option because they've got nothing left to lose.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I also think that she is coming from a place that was just destroyed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she knows what it's like to be from a big dog planet that is now desperate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she feels that same thing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The desperation.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he does, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he destroys the populations of billions of people on three different planets.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the Cloud Dominion, did I understand he, he was like multiple planets, he targeted kind of?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's like cluster system or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's one of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we know how the depth of our works, I'm going to call it the depth of our, because it's just what it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: You go right ahead.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, his entrance was very dramatic, you know, oversaw the size over the middle of the, you know, the middle throne.
[SPEAKER_05]: You say, okay, I am in fire as bad as visually as you can.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love his calling the convener, a treasonous fish belly ship.
[SPEAKER_05]: Come on, does tell us what you really think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boy.
[SPEAKER_05]: And by last hours, I will not bow down to a surfer named after a farm animal.
[SPEAKER_05]: The lovely, really, he gets some of the best lights.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a little touch of the wrath of cons here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's really, this was the performance of the show for me this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was Dusk's monologue here.
[SPEAKER_05]: He really didn't extraordinary, I mean, ghastly and extraordinary thing, but he, he was definitely enough over the top to be very satisfying without actually being 40, at least in my mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: And despite Quince, please, he just boom, boom, boom, boom.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's interesting because Vorella is still holding in her hand, the salt crystal bracelet.
[SPEAKER_05]: that she had gotten from Denver so when Denver's ill took it off, and she just clutches it in her hand and sobs, and you know, the convener's sags against the wall, cloud and joiners, blapses, weeping into a swirl of colorful silk.
[SPEAKER_05]: All of this made me wonder if the original Star Wars didn't have a better idea when they did
[SPEAKER_05]: They, instead, they showed her horrified anticipation before it actually happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's a little touch of the Alfred Hitchcock's here.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you don't actually show the thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: You just, you know, you let the special building build and build and let people supply it in their own mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't know, it just made me wonder, I mean, obviously, they were each of them crushed in their own ways.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it's still, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm also, I'm beginning to realize the profound impact that our visual media culture and AI combined have had on us generally when it comes to generated visual images, because my first thought was, well, I know this is real.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, it's just not a bunch of projection.
[SPEAKER_01]: burgeoning 21st century cynicism about media representation or it could be I mean by them, you know, you could make any kind of artificial, you know, display them for somebody, but I think they know, I think they know that they they overplayed their hand here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, obviously.
[SPEAKER_05]: And for the sake of the story, I, you know, one has to keep receiving it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I thought of you with dusk's final line.
[SPEAKER_05]: You'll take the wording.
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't F with empire.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I had to look up.
[SPEAKER_05]: I had to look up the etymology just to let you know it was first attested in middle English in 1475.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we can't really call it a modern term, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just, I just have not a big fan of of
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm not a fan of it in any where except when I'm by myself and I need to swear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're really explicit on this podcast so I know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just say it right now if I want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I won't go right ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I won't.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think what's changed is the casual contemporary usage of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a sentence enhancer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I mean, it's, it's like very unique.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's, which is absolutely a false dichotomy because if you are unique, that is it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You cannot be more unique or than something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's get George Carlin in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can't say on TV.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it becomes jarring in the extraterrestrial drama and fantasy world, I think, because it's become so common here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, I think it pulls a lot of the power out from using the word, but, uh, well, yeah, I mean, I remember reading if there was an article about how it and or at the end of season one, mild, you know, spoilers with the end of season one of the end or, um, when
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she originally was going to say fuck the empire and they changed it because they did they said it just didn't feel right and I'm with them I think it's more powerful saying fight the empire.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree and so I I do think that it does the track for what they're saying here Now I kind of rolled my eyes when he said don't fuck with empire, but Other than that I thought this was a brilliant monologue and and I did enjoy it very much
[SPEAKER_05]: I have to thank you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the actor had a good time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think what made it wrong, ring wrong to me is that this isn't like something where he's speaking casually to somebody.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is somebody literally going ruler to ruler in what should be basically the most fanciful of an articulate of moments and using very colloquial language.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's really what gets me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no, you're right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_05]: The somehow outward to me just doesn't rise to the grandeur of the occasion or the drama or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to have war crimes, you best bring about language.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you're going to be Shakespearean about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sure that Shakespeare used that word somewhere in some of his plays, but it, it's just, it's a jarring note.
[SPEAKER_05]: What can I say?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's bite our thumbs at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Move on, huh?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, just one more comment.
[SPEAKER_05]: I found myself wondering if...
[SPEAKER_05]: Dusk didn't spare a new terminus for destruction in order to spare points feelings because that would be the logical place to go next The baby has his power.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why not ball what up now?
[SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't know that that dawn is there in a life But he knows the location of the meal the meal says it's because he's too far away So maybe that's you know The show where there's giving us that information so we don't just say well, what did you just destroy the bill?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, but that's why Maybe
[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think Dusk managed to spare acquaintance ceilings even if he did spare Terminus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, she's very uncomfortable with war crimes.
[SPEAKER_05]: She is very upset, exceedingly upset.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, who could blame her?
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't, don't war crime, Dusk.
[SPEAKER_05]: I bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: I absolutely don't blame her in the slightest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just finished reading a book called East West Street.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you heard of this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually about the origins of the term genocide and crimes against humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it kind of applies here because there were two lawyers and the book focuses on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're both from Levyv in Ukraine now, but was in Poland and it was a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: they were these two Jewish lawyers, and they each had a very different view of war crimes, whereas Lemkin, he was a Raphael Lemkin, he was very much of the mind of, he created the word genocide, and he said, it's the wrong thing, the thing that is so new about this is the particularized targeting of a group of people, and this was, by the way, in anticipation of the
[SPEAKER_01]: He said the wrong thing is the targeting of a group of people based on their common identity, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And louder packs says, that is extremely wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I almost don't want to focus on genocide because it makes it sound like you have to have this intent to attack a group for something to be considered so vile.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he called it crimes against humanity, which would include things like genocide.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, suicide.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said, you know, we should consider more broadly like human beings have basic rights and you can't just be killing them indiscriminately like this even if you are the sovereign and I thought that was really interesting and I kind of applies here because I was thinking to myself as I was watching as I was like
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this genocide by, by dusk?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the answer is yes by that definition.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think that like, even if it wasn't, it was vial, I mean, it was a crime against humanity.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, yes, humanity, yeah, sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's only one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Good to have multiple, multiple terms in your vocabulary.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's fascinating to think about stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, don't, don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, kill your own citizens, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's any sovereigns listening, don't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please.
[SPEAKER_01]: Would be sovereigns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well enough of my rambling about books that I read.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go on to a quick break.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're back for some reflections.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dusk and Demerzel meet in the hall of Cliatic Legacy.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm naming, and I don't remember if they named it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the other thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: There is a name for it, but I can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they want, they want their to discuss is title change from the conciliator to the consequential.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells her to blame him for all the death, and she reminds him of his upcoming death.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dusk invites her to clear her chest, and she confesses that her mind is turned into a maze.
[SPEAKER_01]: She cannot determine her next step.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Later Dusk tries to bribe the horrified, went with Lamberrains, but she determinedly makes him feel small for his horrific actions, and mourns the loss of hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dusk then has trouble enjoying his brains.
[SPEAKER_05]: I forgot in the brain's part.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just watched him slice it in the flames.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't need to see any more.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they did really zero in on it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They really were like, oh, yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and of course, all the symbolism, he's about to be sacrificed in the sacrificial lamb, and so on and so on and so on, which was all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, he enjoyed that stroll along the memorial plants of previous empire, missing each one of his ancestors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, and, uh,
[SPEAKER_05]: Interesting that he almost seems to want to comfort him or so.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's just that the blame and responsibility belong to him.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe he didn't want to share the glory either as he saw it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think he just wanted to be known for something, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and yeah, because he's a leader, I think, you know, that's a wonderful thing to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I don't know that even mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what did I even do if I just can still leave it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, unfortunately, you know, people who go say it for peace don't get the big headlines so we people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you got to have these these people writing the book that I read and saying, hey, you know, maybe we should look at these things and be a little more careful next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_05]: But Demer's Alan Turpo says that hope that maybe he isn't have to, you know, go through it.
[SPEAKER_05]: She tells him he still have to ascend tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And dust says, oh, this wasn't a belief in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: i mean it it does kind of remind me of when my children don't want to go to bed and they start telling me oh you know let's let's go play this game or that game and i'm like yeah you know uh you still have to go to bed in ten minutes and you know it's that's they kind of have the same vibe but does gonna have one thing in common we both think it's ironic that
[SPEAKER_05]: each of these people have exactly the same faces but they have different numbers and different honorifics, you know, they have to be named even though they're all supposed to be, just a continuation of one one time human that had not been cloned that had a belly button, so that it is interesting, and Demerzel is of two minds we may have saved or doomed empire, so
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the first time, and probably, in this dusk's life, that these her dim resale be anything less than clear, asks her to unburden herself in the place of her former counselor for real, as saying, whatever you say to me, dies with me tomorrow, which is, I suppose, if it happens, certainly true, but I don't think any counselor wants to have that kind
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, right, insurance that they will not talk about whatever it is they're going to sell them and I love Again, gosh, they're language.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're imagery the way they do this.
[SPEAKER_05]: She says my mind was once you an accursal meaning it had a single path that was easy to follow like like
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like what a maze actually is, as long as you follow the maze or a elaborate threat or elaborate has one path and if you keep walking the same direction, do go to the center.
[SPEAKER_05]: A maze is designed to confuse you.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she says, my mind was once universal and I'll add my own princess like elaborate.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is now a maze with many choices.
[SPEAKER_05]: I may have to evaluate all paths.
[SPEAKER_05]: It causes me much stress.
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe she's reached the maximum capability of her, um, how's the training bring to us?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's all the options.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, to me, I just read this as Harry's paradox bomb work.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and we do get some further clarification about that later on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and then when Quentin seeks out dust, he thinks he's prepared this wonderful last supper for him with all of this marked opposite food, and you know, a loving partner at his side, and of course, she lets him have it with both barrels.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did he think was going to happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he, I felt the need to hide his, his killing of the ferret or whatever it was.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, and yet he thinks it's a brutal vicious act with absolutely no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but it's only, but he knew he had to hide it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he knew that she would frown upon it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, he, he's going to hide that from her.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then, probably display his, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: what not to turn and act like nothing bad is going to happen?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, it is opening line as oh, you're upset.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why does that set her off?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's safe.
[SPEAKER_05]: What were you thinking?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but her point is this was just revenge.
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't a strategic move, et cetera, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_05]: And does tries to defend his decision by saying, well, Demerzel agreed to forward.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it doesn't mean it wasifiable.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Gwen says, that's your math.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not the math I believe in.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he shoots right back with, is it your math?
[SPEAKER_05]: There's Selton's plan.
[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, you know, the two are pretty much the same.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what's wrong with that?
[SPEAKER_05]: But
[SPEAKER_05]: Quant says, I believe there's a way to save humanity and it isn't this way.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm telling you what I need.
[SPEAKER_05]: I need a way forward, but foundation does fall on you.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have shit all over.
[SPEAKER_05]: So where do I go for help?
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you see what you're digging for me?
[SPEAKER_05]: Just says, well, did I take hope?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, then you already took hope away.
[SPEAKER_05]: And her final line, I call you a small petty man screaming and pissing with fear as they load you on the tunnel.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's not wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's not wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, does shots after I am a piece.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, yeah, brother, sure you are.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I believe that, mm, mm, mm.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you can't eat as lovely lamb later on.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very interesting too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost, I know the brain was almost like a gag, but at the same time, he had just gotten done seeing the statue heads.
[SPEAKER_01]: of his former self, former versions of himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wonder how much he's like, I am a sacrificial lamb and everything I am thinking and saying right now, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is going to be on a platter tomorrow?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no, I'm sure he is.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure he is that he's being sacrificed to the wishes of the first plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Instead of being allowed to live out a life span, whatever that matter might not be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this actually does come back to this question of would you really want to know the day you're going to die and the more you see it is clear on the more you think maybe it's not such a great idea after all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, we'll have to just take a poll of the dead people.
[SPEAKER_01]: With the long island meeting with the long island medium to Reese is going to be busy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope somebody out there gets this reference in this is going to.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, folks, anybody who gets the reference, please write to empire at thelorhons.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, indeed.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know somebody else is busy.
[SPEAKER_05]: That would be Kale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kale, yes, she is, and we have a lot to talk about there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Demorsil enters the reading into me with Kale, or whatever Kale is, interfacing with another artificial intelligence allows Demorsil to deal with the paradox of her current path.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kale suggests a deferred betrayal by inviting the second foundation to shelter in the tranfer library, without deciding whether to betray them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, isn't that interesting?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there is the knowledge that not to choose is still to choose.
[SPEAKER_01]: This reminds me so much of I said, I owes, you know, this, you speak it on your word.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're uncertain, can you, I don't remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you can then say whatever you think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that whatever you believe to be true is what you can say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you sincerely believe in something is true, you can say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think this is almost similar here, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you believe that this may or may not be serving empire, then you can do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, which is, in effect, what she says at the end is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the whole concept of,
[SPEAKER_05]: Demoiselle, being able to go to the library, get callous proof of folding place her prime radiant on it and enter into the radiant.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we saw Harry enter into the radiant earlier, but we didn't understand and he didn't understand it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what was going on.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I love how she's using my memories helped to build this place.
[SPEAKER_05]: A second mother built the walls.
[SPEAKER_05]: There may be a third.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I'm wondering where is collie the second?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is she collie is the third unknown?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think collie is the third and Harry's the second.
[SPEAKER_05]: So Harry is the third.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's a mother, but I think that's what she kind of is saying there.
[SPEAKER_05]: OK.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just wondered if it might be gayl.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I might be wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think gayl had anything to do with making the radio, though.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, using it now, if they're making any additions or, or, you know, further clear questions.
[SPEAKER_05]: So whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: There.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that's more of a book thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that is more of a book thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something that sort of comes up a little bit in the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to don't.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, oh, oh.
[SPEAKER_05]: The second mother could have been Harry's wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, true.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because she very clearly had a lot to, and didn't she actually present him?
[SPEAKER_05]: with the original model as a birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we lost over this all the way.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, every comes in for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our inboxes are saved.
[SPEAKER_05]: Apparently.
[SPEAKER_05]: I seek answers, and you may have them, Kalei.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Kalei, without even being asked, understands that Demousel is wondering if Kalei is a robot.
[SPEAKER_05]: and she responds, I know who you watch me to be.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like seeks for light, robots were not made to be alone.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am surprised you can still function.
[SPEAKER_05]: And in light of what we've already seen and heard in the previous episodes, I find that incredibly important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I also find it interesting that at the same time that Gale is consulting with Voltaire, who is very much a product of the prime-creating in Temercell's consulting with Gale, who whatever she is and however she is, but definitely, you know, tightly connected with the prime-ing.
[SPEAKER_05]: So truth-time, Demercell tells Gale that she lied to Gale, she does believe that Gale saw the future that she described.
[SPEAKER_05]: which is interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we hear Demerzel's story about 5,000 years ago when the library was many layers down, levels down.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because Rancho was many levels further down.
[SPEAKER_05]: and the last surviving robots type tried to hide in the library and only lived gouges in the stone floors they were dragged out.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, how do they come up with such evocative language?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just, you know, I was, I was absolutely there, just there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yum.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is where she says, you know, she's been thinking about helping second foundation hide in the library.
[SPEAKER_05]: But realize that this is a paradox from which she cannot find an exit.
[SPEAKER_05]: She wants to help the second foundation, but are they enemies of Empire?
[SPEAKER_05]: And so was she even being sincere in if she makes that offer?
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is where we see Harry gave a primary to Demiselle as a paradox bomb.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I was right that he wasn't trying to help her when he initially gave it to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that might not be true though, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be that he was trying to help her free herself.
[SPEAKER_05]: from her bonds okay you never know I mean things can serve multiple purposes right if you don't know you're in ten well you can make a choice later right hey hey yeah no exactly but at the same time if he had in his calculations for seeing that empire micro to strong with you know
[SPEAKER_05]: with all this history, because, of course, since she helped him with the primary in the beginning, he got to know her a fair bit, and who in what she was, maybe this was his contribution towards ensuring that empire would follow at some point in a way that bring foundation out on top.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know that she's Tim herself says, indeed, I believe that in that future, I offered will have offered, as it is future, that ancient
[SPEAKER_05]: to the second foundation for survival.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I like this, which just gets back to what you're saying earlier, when Cali says, if in your vision you couldn't discern intent, then both options are still open for you.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can decide later.
[SPEAKER_05]: See how it helps to have someone to think with?
[SPEAKER_05]: This is how it should, and again, we get back to this theme of robots who are not built to be a lump.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And by extension, humans were not built to be alone.
[SPEAKER_05]: We need other people to bounce ideas off of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen cast away?
[SPEAKER_05]: I have not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was joking about asking that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was one of the main part points.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you needed somebody to talk to, so he made the ball into a head and he named it Wilson, and then he kept talking to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to dark to somebody.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, thinking out loud.
[SPEAKER_05]: And also,
[SPEAKER_05]: I finally decided to do a little digging in this whole question rule, who or what is Kale and of course I've always recognized the resonance with the Hindu Vedic tradition in which Kale is a major goddess, primarily associated with time, death and destruction.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the time piece caught my mind trying to weigh Kale being a
[SPEAKER_05]: and transcendental knowledge, part of a group of goddesses who provide liberating knowledge, etymologically the term cali refers to one who governs time or is black.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm wondering if that contributed all to their casting, although I think again, they just based it upon who they thought was the best actor for the job as they understood this character of
[SPEAKER_05]: And the terrifying iconography of Cali makes her a unique figure among the goddesses and symbolizes her embracement and embodiment of the grim worldly realities of blood death and destruction.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's kind of hard to feel like you can sight a lot to this one, but she still is still to do protect and bestow liberation on her devotees who approach her with the attitude of a child towards their mother.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now I'm thinking of Demoszo, who can produce destruction with a touch of her finger.
[SPEAKER_01]: She sure can.
[SPEAKER_05]: But who also sings L'Eleby's to her baby empires.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that motherly nature out of this figure, which is also kind of terrifying.
[SPEAKER_05]: So all of that kind of
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I didn't get my answer who or what is Kale and I have a feeling they're just not going to tell us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I hope that they do explain it at some point, but
[SPEAKER_05]: really explained how they interpret her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I don't know if Kale is certainly not a robot, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we know that it's not a robot, she goes, I know what you want me to be.
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: But an artificial construct, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an artificial intelligence of some kind and I think that's what Kale is trying to say to them herself, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We can math together.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to have another robot to have this kind of out loud conversations.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: come to some new wisdom.
[SPEAKER_05]: You need an intelligence which can handle this kind of dimensional thinking and paths and municursals and all of that and not be completely overwhelmed by it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a human is insufficient for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She does need some kind of official being.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And actually, now that you say that, I think I wonder if maybe her seeking through luminism also was a way of trying to
[SPEAKER_05]: beyond the humans who she knew wouldn't help her or couldn't help her to something else that might in the course, in the end, she kind of pulls the trigger on that whole thing herself, which I had more comments about, but more in the afterward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that we're going to get a prequel series where Demoselle is a detective classic
[SPEAKER_05]: That would be fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it would be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although at some point you're going to start aging, and then that's not really going to make sense for a robot.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can always recast and say, Oh, well, her shell was changed, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she goes through all those elaborate repair.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, mechanisms all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the robot novels, the first one takes place in New York City.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if she'd have that accent either.
[SPEAKER_01]: If she was made to fit in in New York City.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, let's take a quick break and then we'll go back to Micogen.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back day narrowly escapes being eaten by bacteria and parasites when songbird rescues him instead of running day runs back into the community theater and attacks the sunmaster killing him and stealing the brazen head in an attempt to free dimmer cell.
[SPEAKER_01]: So not a lot here, but you know, I, uh, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: We get so by the way, on feedback, I have been collecting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have your emails.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do a feedback episode at the end of the season, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: This makes more sense because we've been recording these A-SYNC honestly, but let's do it out the end of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have yours.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see Jordan, I see Christina, I see Pony.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Lou, don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll get out my, my Quebec wa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, I see Marie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see I see Pony people here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think we have we have six or seven emails so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep them coming in.
[SPEAKER_01]: We will get to any email that comes in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will read at the end of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're all good.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're good unless it's really mean and then I won't read it, but don't don't send me any mills anyway Just no need for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, all right It all serious this yeah, and all seriousness the the Sephirotic caterpillar didn't work for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I thought I was great.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was really monster one It was it was I didn't know it was kind of monster from the lagoon sort of whatever I didn't watch anything too closely because I could
[SPEAKER_05]: figure out what it was.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the overgrown flesh eating caterpillars, that's much the size.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sunmaster could talk about tiny microbes and things, and that was no tiny microbe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it was because I had a killer as big as his arm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe it was because I was recently thinking about the never-ending story, but I was getting a tray you who vibes here when he's trying to murk through there, you know, I wanted a shot for day.
[SPEAKER_01]: A day you, all right, all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, all I can say is this was probably not the best episode at your moment to be watching while I was eating myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't really watch it very closely at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I was confirmed in my belief that it would be song word who would rescue him from his fate worse than death.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, could be as she goes as she's kind of screwed in this situation too, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that she sees a genuineness from him, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, all right, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sunmaster is clearly full of shit here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we need to get to Neil Freed.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is our best shot of getting to Neil Freed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because she saw, she experienced dealing herself.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's nothing like seeing your favorite figure to absolutely commit you firmly to the faith.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, of course, we also know that even if, you know, Dimreselle was standing in front of Sunmaster revealed an earlier glory, he would still say, no, it's a fake because he doesn't want to let go of power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, I guess, I guess what day is saying is we just need to get
[SPEAKER_01]: didn't kneel back to the apple store to get you a factory reset as long as we as long as we get her to the genius bar with this brazen heads will be all okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, but what I like what he actually says, you know, song tells him you're doing a great thing for humanity and day says, I'd settle for doing a great thing for her.
[SPEAKER_05]: What a turnaround.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially because early in the season, she is so distrustful of her.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is very dismissive of her.
[SPEAKER_05]: This cruel, vicious, he does everything he can to show her how much he loads her.
[SPEAKER_05]: And all the more when she expresses any kind of tenderness and affection for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what was it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it the drug trip that really sent him down?
[SPEAKER_01]: He remembered when she was kind to him as a kid.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think so, I do, and also the realization of there is another robot that clear the experience that this robot is reaching out.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, what's left of it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Except, they're really mangled head.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I bet you Demorsel is reaching out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Demorsel is gonna get out her handy-tandy fix it kid and rebuild one up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_05]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_05]: But again, you suddenly realized, okay, she really does experience this yearning, this longing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: to communicate with another being of her kind and all of her expressions of tenderness for the the young, the young clients that all the little dons.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I find it much more believable now in terms of Canada, robot, ever have these kinds of feelings.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, call them feelings, call them coding, call them whatever you want, but it's there and it causes whatever you want to call
[SPEAKER_05]: anguish that robots experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's what caught day's attention more than anything.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm glad that, you know, ocean glass comes down minus her red sash now, and she stands with songbird and agrees, I think these two have talked amongst themselves for quite a while now about the need to get rid of sunmaster.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the whole notion that, you know, whatever this is, he's really not in favor of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder how much they have talked because they did seem to trust him quite a lot when they, you know, we have to call us on master.
[SPEAKER_05]: That did seem to be their safe haven when they help or was it there if we don't call him, I don't know, he's going to handle her butts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: It could go either way, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think right, you know, up until the point where they had actual proof there was a real robot still surviving, I think they would have felt, yeah, we've got to follow us on Master, we've got it, you know, because he has the plan that will eventually get us freed from, you know, just the lowest confines of the of the transfer at this.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we can go out searching for the remaining robot from there.
[SPEAKER_05]: But now they don't have to do that anymore.
[SPEAKER_05]: They know where the remaining robot is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the fact that Sunmaster doesn't care, in fact, is terrified that they will bring her back or connect with her.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think kind of makes it clear when I think they've already suspected for quite a while that he's just not ever going to try to bring back what they're seeking.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I got to say,
[SPEAKER_05]: 10 day really enjoys tapping Sunmaster with his own staff.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, yeah, finally.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can take out all this frustration and anger.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think they try to make him get eaten alive, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, no, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's two different Clions being made into a dinner metaphor that day.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's an interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is an interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think,
[SPEAKER_05]: one of the reasons why he enjoyed it so much was because it's some degree he was also trying to kill that with himself, which was being likes on Master and saying, well, you know, it's not real.
[SPEAKER_05]: She says she wants that she really doesn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: It, it, it, it, you know, basically.
[SPEAKER_05]: loving her to the level of any kind of, you know, box-shaped computer system or whatever.
[SPEAKER_05]: But having experienced the brazen head and what it does, he understands what it's really doing.
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, Sunmaster completely misinterprets that he, as, as the false prophet he said, well, this is what it really means when, of course, if not what it means.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it doesn't mean he's condemned to death.
[SPEAKER_05]: It means I'm trying to reach out because I've heard my song and I need to respond to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I love, very, I can.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wonderful, my drop moment, the Sunmaster calls him profane, man, and he calls Sunmaster dead, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was a good comeback.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think everybody enjoyed this scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, except maybe Sunmaster.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he didn't enjoy too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am glad that we don't have to hear the voice that doesn't belong on that face though anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the costuming wasn't there for for this voice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think it was more of a costuming issue than a
[SPEAKER_01]: Although Jordan, you know, I'm saving your feedback for the end, but Jordan didn't comment on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It said, John, you're cracking me up with your son-lord voice commentary as I feel exactly the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember the actor Blake Ritzon from the short-lived show, Krypton, where he plays a similar role and then via Alicia, I saw him again on the Guild of Age, a great podcast on the storyline called The Lorehounds, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he has that same just congratulating voice.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is an amazing theater actor, but man, the voice can throw you off a bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's really funny.
[SPEAKER_05]: It really is, I mean, put gray hair on them and give them a beard.
[SPEAKER_05]: But again, anybody with that much vanity would probably want to remove all traces of age, if possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and Jordan and Gerard wrote in to tell you that it was probably Cincinnati, that you were thinking of.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, OK, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're over that higher last week.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was Cincinnati.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you both.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we'll get to the rest of the few back later, but yeah, I mean, I don't have much more to say about the scene other than I hope, and I really do hope Demer's old denial of gets freed.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do too, and I really think that if anybody can do it, it's going to be day, which is again, talk about a twist from a day that we saw in the first couple of episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brother dude really has a go on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, and, you know, maybe he's a little hard to reach, but, you know, couple of drug-induced trips back to his childhood and, you know, listening to a really insane guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gail enters the vault with her genetic key and meets with vault Harry.
[SPEAKER_01]: She explains how his vault works as four-dimensional object with a three-dimensional shadow and asks to use it to get close to the mule.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Valtzweller who refuses to be called Harry asks for a body in return.
[SPEAKER_01]: Galagheri is despite the only person with knowledge being gone.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what do you mean by that?
[SPEAKER_01]: The only person with knowledge of how, because he's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Get me a body because I don't know how and he's goes ask Harry.
[SPEAKER_01]: She goes Okay, but she goes later.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't tell him Harry's dead, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So that he was the only person with knowledge of that body.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've all though that might start illusion entirely That might not be true at all because Kali is the one who really did it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: This Kali projection Exactly, so uh, but we don't have a primary ingredient in the possession actually know the second foundation has the other primary
[SPEAKER_01]: theoretically interferes with the Prime Radiant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how this works though.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, an involte Harry gave away his Prime Radiant to Diversale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, maybe he's regretting that choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just found myself wondering, how is Gail supposed to give you a body?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, come on.
[SPEAKER_05]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's got her, hey, she's got another fish to fry right now and be how to just she know how to do that?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vault Harry goes, look, all I know is he went off with you, he came back with a body, making him happen.
[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha ha.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: She starts off by saying that Selva shouldn't have told Fault Harry about Hobart.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we're going back a couple, you know, let to last season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: The way that he's, you know, interfering with this plan that nobody should interfere with supposedly, and he says, well, you are in trouble, and she says, well, so it was new terminus, you know, you could have pulled them in here again.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then Tarys says, like a good teacher, did I pull?
[SPEAKER_05]: You think it out, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And so we get the whole demonstration with the spoon and turning it when we're turning another in the shadows, changes, and he scooped them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you project the vault into three dimensions, caught them in the spoon.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, how are he response, Calay helped?
[SPEAKER_05]: I was created an empty sleeve of a man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Perhaps if I'd been allowed to know more, I could have done more.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, also, you know, I think the knowledge that he's the left hand has been eating away at him for some time now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that and I knew the fact that he was caught completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, footage with the mule.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, the two together does not make for a happy Harry.
[SPEAKER_05]: I understand that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He shows up, he's like, hey guys, all right, we're going to get this civil war taken care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you worry about it, Harry, sell them here with the plan?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, all right, what about the mule?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he goes,
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_05]: The what I'm gonna go back to my man cave But he makes up for it very quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to say he does he does like like you said to me So yeah, you he caught up on the news and read all the holes you got into interval feed Yeah, and again, it was confirmed that
[SPEAKER_05]: Harry says I gave her a paradox bomb the fault of her program expressed in pure psychohistory so my feeling all along was when he gave her the the prime reading it was with some intention of sabotaging her or something along those lines but she couldn't resist it right this was the knowledge of how to get empire on the right track and she you know her programming
[SPEAKER_05]: Voltaire also wanted to let the other Harry know that he was still acting, and not the creature of this other Harry, which is kind of ironic, since the best of our knowledge that Harry is off the table, but no, you never know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still don't understand what happened there and it was really interesting because the last episode I didn't mention this but the last episode was called Skin in the Game and that's exactly what Callay had said to him right is and then Gale says it again this episode so
[SPEAKER_01]: In episode, I think it was two Harry Disappears with Kaleh, who says, you know, it's time to see who the one who won and you to have Skeleton in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's never something again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like we never found out who that person was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like we have to see this resolve in the finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was going to resolve sooner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess they're saving it for a big finale.
[SPEAKER_05]: I hope they're gonna clarify that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's a very long dangling thread at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, if they say it for next season, I don't know, that's the end of that segment.
[SPEAKER_05]: Great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Very good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a man who's fallen into the well screaming to get out.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then he says, I'll help him when condition.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Kael says, that's the area I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which, really, a noism?
[SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't want to be called, Erie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, don't call me that.
[SPEAKER_05]: He got a body and full knowledge.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want what he has.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's almost a bit like, okay, so you establish multiple iterations of the same plan.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got two iterations of Harry.
[SPEAKER_05]: And does that work?
[SPEAKER_05]: And what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: And why did the the the flesh Harry who set this whole thing up, figured that all this was a good
[SPEAKER_01]: Demorsel at the end of the season is just going to push a button in the decanter room and it's going to be a room of heries.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a very scary thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that actually happens, I promise I did not watch a hat.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, no, mark my words.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that happens, one, if that happens, I think it'll be stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And two.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it like future Demosal Dineel, like, hey, we got to, oh my god, I'm getting too much of my head now.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, this is, we gotta get married and have skin in the game so that he can in the past help us do the thing and then he'll die and then you and then, yeah, I gotta ask you, Marilyn, if you were an immortal digital being and you could have all the knowledge of the universe basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause I think this Harry could, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: any media that's ever been out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He could try any food because, you know, it's all the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you could be that, Voltaire basically, or you could go and become a Middle Age Harry Selvin and live a normal lifespan, what would you choose?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'd be the live normal lifespan, because when you get to go into with Kali into a whole new
[SPEAKER_05]: I already have a vault Harry equivalent.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a librarian.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I've had all this knowledge available to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't have all knowledge available to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't what all knowledge available.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes selective is the important thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I'm reading the stormlight archive and I'm like, I could use some more time to read this.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not about more time, John.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's about more knowledge and I'm satisfied with the kinds of knowledge that I have.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I kind of like having a skin in the game.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like that whole embodiment thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Marilyn, I grant your wish as colleague.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Plus, I want to see the mystery that's on the other side of that doorway that she walked through with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually just an inciterator.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was just, she was just giving them a merciful dove.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I want to know is, if Demerzel's memories were part of the forming of the prime region in the first place, why is it now presenting over the paradox?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why is there something that she can't solve about this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess it wasn't the only thing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was used as a source material, but it was not the final product.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, what Harry says is I gave her a paradox on the fault in her program expressed in pure psychohistory.
[SPEAKER_05]: So is the fault in her program when the first Clion over road her zero with law saying you will always preserve vampire and how did Terry know about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: or was the zero as law the fault in her pro?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it could be, it may be the conflict between the two is the fault.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the seeming impossible task of deciding what is good for humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we don't tend to agree on that as humans very well, do we?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and as Timbersville memorably said in a previous episode, you seem to have such a desire for self-destruction.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I literally just brought up a book that debated what we should classify the mindless killing of millions of people as so yeah we do have a mind for destruction like we are we don't do the right thing a lot of the time and we have a mind for regeneration yeah and maybe that's been really brought home to be today because I've got to hold my grandson first
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's, there's still, it still goes on, the cycle still goes on, the generation still goes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll go through the mystery.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't need to know everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I appreciate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate your take there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So at this point, they go out of the vault and greet everybody who's waiting there, including Maggie.
[SPEAKER_05]: Harry tells Gale that the meal story doesn't end up just before the dirty dozen minus seven enters with Maggie into the vault.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm wondering how that's going to work out.
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you think of the device at the end with Gale's voice overlaid as we see all the different scenes of people?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we've she's been our narrator a number of times throughout all three seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I generally don't love narrations like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if they are a little bit, I was going to use a mean word, but I use it less mean word.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that they're a little exposition dumpy, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And a little little cheesy sometimes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's too bad because they have had some magnificent dialogue.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they don't need this.
[SPEAKER_01]: They really don't need this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just show me the people.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think they wanted to show the people, but it may just be this, you know, we do need something over, you know, just all these multiple scenes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, just put the music there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The music is good enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just let Bermakura do his thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and just your final line, um, I will not walk alone on this path, followed by seeing dusk, unable to eat his magnificent dinner.
[SPEAKER_05]: because he's realized he's walking his path alone.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then day walking his path alone, back to the palace, that I'll bet he never wanted to set foot in again before he left it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, there's good stuff there.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just, I don't know, for whatever reason that overlaid voice didn't really quite cut it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Give me some.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's very necessary during the beginnings of these seasons because of the big tide time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I have no problem with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't love it when it's like a huge what's going to happen next.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, just show me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just tell me, just show that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't mind having summaries of, you know, yeah, all I've been to sleep for 150, you know, just kind of bringing us up to date for, all right, where are we now and what's, you know, what has happened and so on.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then.
[SPEAKER_05]: As you say, show me right moving forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make a show tell Blux Capacitor test because that David loves to add six new tests every time I open up an outline.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this this is a show tell diameter that, you know, I, I, I, I, I just make fun of them, you know, I'm just poking on at them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we've been doing this long enough for a malattu.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very excited for the finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might go watch it tonight after this, even though it's late.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would love to, I think, probably wisdom will prevent me from doing that, but there's always lunches.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: You mentioned that one of the folks who wrote in was talking about the Roman Empire thing and listening to some history things recently, I realized that while I'm seeing this largely through the lenses of ancient European empires, I'm sure that the similar patterns
[SPEAKER_05]: peer-peer painkock deck in China, the Middle East, and sub-right, so it's not exclusive to these things do tend to repeat.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I think as a most depiction in the total series, as a depiction of empire was a kind of gender-gender empire, then what we're seeing here, and there was more of a focus on the people who were
[SPEAKER_05]: degenerating in their behavior and, you know, things were falling apart.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know, are we supposed to interpret that to mean that all empires are a priori bad by virtue of being impires?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we do start off in the first season being reminded of the, you know, respect and enjoy the peace.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, I don't think that is this anymore, particularly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we are supposed to understand that because the whole goal is to create a new empire, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if it were better to leave everyone in in their feudal states, then that's what Harry Sullivan would want to do, but he thinks that the answer is a second empire.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there has to be some difference between the second empire and the first one I hold yeah, I mean clearly the difference is much clearer in the show right, which is there's a chaotic dynasty there's this robot there is this this enforced stagnation right there is this enforced
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the right.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the thing that the books kept bringing up over and over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe he just didn't want to go into it with the books and he just was like, yeah, it's just stagnation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for some reason, this empire is going to be better at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe because it has science and psychohistory of his base, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I went vocabulary diving again in the Sunmaster scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: the secrarium, which is the saprophytic pit that's supposed to receive the elements.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I realized it sounded familiar.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think it's intended to be a scrambled version of the sacritoryium, which is a particular kind of sync found in Catholic churches instead of draining into whatever sewer system is there.
[SPEAKER_05]: It drains into the earth itself.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, that is where any leftover consecrated wine or holy water, that pissable thought water, or a poured.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure that they can use it for the wafers, but you know, probably the same basic idea.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then also, he uses the word peca-ray, which reminds me of Piccatoria, your sinner.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, it's interesting that they're throwing in these Latin words for this very highly ritualistic culture.
[SPEAKER_05]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: That was one of my reflections.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Catholics, they love their rituals.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I get, I'm hoping that the Gore is listening to this, you know, is how I'm picking up a little tail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know what, we had our mark on his last season, but I think we've been pretty good about following rabbit holes this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Another thing I finally understood, remember you're both confused just to, you know, when Demerzel and Viralis were in the garden for the last time, we think that she's gonna kill her.
[SPEAKER_05]: When she's talking about for the second time, I'm gonna have to do something horrible, too, you know, a current priestess.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought initially meant killing her, but of course, I think what she's referring to is the knowledge that she's going to destroy the luminous sacred planets.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's definitely confirmed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, leaving her alone as the last luminous is perhaps worse.
[SPEAKER_05]: which I don't think is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but because that was the call, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That was your home.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was also, it's like, you know, bombing any of the sacred religious sites.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you if you bomb the Vatican, there would still be Catholics, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I get what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: But still, the horror of it because it was so clearly the sacred place, you know, think of them.
[SPEAKER_05]: They actually showed us that scene of all the pilgrims.
[SPEAKER_05]: doing the intensely harsh and difficult pilgrimage on that planet.
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't do it just anywhere you do it on that planet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And all of that is gone now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, I think this is why Demmercil says, I know now that the mother will never hold me in her arms.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because how could she possibly do that after what Demmercil knows she's about to sanction, to approve,
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'd also encourage me that the, Demiselle's lack of knowledge about the novecular could be meant to demonstrate her increasing existential crisis interfering.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Along with the term despairing over her clients, and it's distracting her from other things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Season one, Demiselle would not have missed it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_05]: There was a lot of discussion about this on the discord channels, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that interesting how we've been focused on this Clionic Reft?
[SPEAKER_01]: And all the while there's been a dimmer zeldrift dimmer zeldrift isn't too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, I think that's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's absolutely right And now I'm even wondering if Valt Harry is planning to use the mule to aid him in his search for his own skin in the game That would be an interesting twist
[SPEAKER_01]: That is interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what other purpose is Harry looking for the meal for, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Really?
[SPEAKER_05]: So many people, again, asking why I didn't just slap him down and kill him when he could.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there, you know, you think there must be a reason that we're the notes of good reason or bad reason or crazy reason.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have yet to determine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it seems to me that, as we said before, there's still plenty of luminists in the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure there must be some cloud dwellers who are off planets at the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Might want to meet unite with Emile and help take down Trantor and Empire.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, no, it'll be interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I have one teeny tiny book spoiler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this I think this is fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think this one is okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I what I mean, I would just say if you if you really don't want a spoiler for the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a minor spoiler for For a book identity, but I don't think this is a huge well, I would literally and I have it right up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, for those of you who know the books.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm thinking now that the result is intended to be a combination of the meal and doors
[SPEAKER_05]: from whatever that's worth.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, people are saying, well, why did they change your gender?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just wondering, maybe this could, well, they change everybody's gender in the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't, I really don't really care about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: standpoint.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there might be something that I appreciated that David Garerman clear in when he in our inner in his interview with us is that he just picked the person he thought would play the role the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not regardless of gender, regardless of race, regardless of identity, just whoever would play the role the best.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And God, I have a very hard time conceiving anybody doing a better job than Laura Bernis doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I think she does a fantastic job.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's stunning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although it must be very painful to hold your arms like that all day.
[SPEAKER_05]: I got to tell you, I hope she has an off camera massage therapist who comes rushing on in every can.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if they have like what if what if there's inters leaves?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a rod that holds them together up so that she doesn't have to do it all day.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be ever been genius honestly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and again, between takes, I'm sure she has to have a coach telling it relax your shoulders.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, actually shoulders, relax your shoulders because it would be so easy to get that whole body system just completely nodded up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, and she's not a real robot, so yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, not really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, everyone, this was a fantastic discussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we wanted a little longer this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew we would, because there was a lot to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to get in your feedback again, I have your emails.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've sent them in already, just if you want to continue to set in feedback for eight season wrap up, we'll do our whole season wrap up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we'll talk some more book spoilers on that, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for now, I just want to give our outro here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sorry, email, empireethelorhounds.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the email for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh but let's just give our uh shoutouts to our affiliates never mind the music is wrapping up their second season and going into their third I was just listening to their mail bag episode third mail bag of season great stuff I I really enjoy I'm really enjoying it uh it's nice to hear that it's going to be sort of a two-part wrap up so uh check out their season you're just in times of jumping to season two when I think you're going to like it a musician going to see
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also radioactive ramblings, Aaron right now is focusing on covering peacemaker with the leash over on the main feed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, don't forget to check out peacemaker if you are okay with a plus five to ten on the poculus scale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which will be an indication to everybody that no, I'm not watching that one and John's on that podcast too I was just mentioning Aaron because it's a radioactive ramlings But yeah, John Aaron and Alicia are all covering peacemakers So definitely check out the main feed if you're on the foundation feed you are on the right feed to get the peacemaker coverage I'm sure it must be spectacular with those three I know I just I'm not caught up I can't listen to it yet, but I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna catch up one day
[SPEAKER_01]: one day.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, if you want more Maryland brings the rituals, go go listen to you know, no new episodes right now, but you can always catch up on that brings a power content.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, get a reminder, season one in anticipation of our coverage of season two, which will be a good set up for the beginning of season three.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And probably Howard is finishing up their bacon rap season.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're having a great time on that and it's a good thing, too, because consuming all that bacon, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got to lay off that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: You ever hear of epic meals high in Maryland?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so when I was in high school when I was in high school, my senior in high school there was a YouTube channel called epic meal time and may I say as a 17 18 year old I thought this was the most hilarious thing I'd ever seen they would buy like 50 McDonald's cheeseburgers and like turd it into a casserole Then they would wrap it in a bacon wrap and they would just they would just all like animalistically eat this food and even like the most comical way
[SPEAKER_01]: to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I thought it was hilarious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was hilarious when I was 17.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I think I would cringe quite a lot at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, man, was that great content for 17 year old boy?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, I think that was probably their target audience.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can feel my arteries hardening if you describe them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I should said you just won.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just won.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you do what I'm going to find.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to find one for you, Maryland.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody?
[SPEAKER_01]: Any.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope this spreads a discord conversation for for millennials like me who were sucked into the epic meal time nonsense for a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right, bacon wrapped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's properly Howard.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got back there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kevin Bacon, theme season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Two old friends were viewing movies together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And don't forget to check out Alicia's podcast, Wolf's Shift does covering Dune, and the Star Wars can in timeline podcast covering what the title says, Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_05]: to great detail and great expertise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, you've been on some on that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have a couple when we got into things about myth and fairy tale, which I did know something about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, on the made feed, as I mentioned, peacemaker, full coverage with Alicia, John, and Aaron.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have David at the helm of Alien Earth.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear the season is going great.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's had a bunch of different guests on including Alicia, including Luke, and also including Dove and Brian 863.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think it's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're getting more community members on the mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, good job.
[SPEAKER_01]: God, I haven't listened to your podcast yet, but I heard it was a hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, other than that, we're finishing up foundation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure what we're doing after that because I mean, he's making it still going for a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just just keep up on the main feed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And once foundation wraps up, we're gonna return to some silver early in stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Marilyn, you're on my next one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna have more Marilyn and John after foundation.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for the heads up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're welcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk schedule like a fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So discord server boosters.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to thank Aaron Kay to live the thriller do 71 Athena A. Lestu Nancy M. Ghost of Partition radioactive Richard and Adrienne
[SPEAKER_01]: In our lore masters, Samarshan, Michael G. Michelle E. Brian P. S. C. Peter O'H.
[SPEAKER_01]: Adam S. Nancy M. Duf 71.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brian 863.
[SPEAKER_01]: Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C. Matthew M. Sarah M. Andre B. Cuang U. Dead I Jedi Bob.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nathan T. Alex V. Sub-Zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: Aaron K. Delivey.
[SPEAKER_01]: Motherhip 61.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nero's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kathy W. Lestu.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeffrey B. Elisa U. Neil F. Ben B. Scott F. Stephen N. Julia F.
[SPEAKER_01]: Paul K. Bobby C. Jessica H. Redzippy, the TCS, a new warm-aster.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for some private.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everyone for all your support.
[SPEAKER_01]: We will be back next week with the finale of Foundations.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to be great.
[SPEAKER_05]: I hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's good or not.
[SPEAKER_05]: We will be here to talk all about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good night.