[SPEAKER_02]: Warning, this episode contains details that some listeners may find disturbing.
[SPEAKER_02]: February 16th, 1929, Beverly Hills, California.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ned Dohini, son of an oil tycoon, is visited by his personal secretary Hugh Plunkett, at Dohini's massive and breathtaking mansion, known today as Greystone.
[SPEAKER_02]: After a few hours of conversing and drinking, two gunshots ring out through the mansion and both men are found dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: The police were not immediately called.
[SPEAKER_02]: When they did show up, they would quickly conclude that this was a murder suicide case closed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Over the years, rumors and speculation have led most to believe the murder suicide was more than meets the eye.
[SPEAKER_02]: From no fingerprints found in the gun, the bodies being moved, gossiped that this was a lover's quarrel gone wrong, not to mention that both men were in the middle of a political scandal.
[SPEAKER_02]: The deaths a Christone mansion is a case for the ages, and anyone who may
[SPEAKER_02]: You
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, welcome to the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Michael May and joining me today is Scott Michaels of the dearly departed tours Scott, I don't know if you're even aware of this, but you actually are a little bit of like a local LA celebrity because a lot of people have been such fans of your tours over the years, were you aware of that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I incorrect even calling you a local celebrity?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can say that people will come to me because I can string a sentence or two together and I know a bit about Hollywood.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had become part of the landscape in Hollywood, despite the fact that I'm no longer in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I was around, I've done, I've been into the dark tours in business for over 25 years and I had my own museum.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was at the forefront of all that stuff for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And is it specifically kind of like the dark side of Hollywood that intrigues you or is it just are you a fan of kind of mysteries and true crime and general like what got you into that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well the stories I gravitate towards are people that I know a little bit about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I use the analogy like if I wanted to, if I was walking past say a dead body as you do,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of, you need to, I need that association, not just as a, you know, reading a story just because of the murder, I want to know more about the people behind the murder.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's always been my, but I also interested in a lot of different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always said it was sort of a light-hearted look at the dark side of Hollywood.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, you've gotten involved.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know you've worked on some movies and consulted on some various projects and things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to talk a little bit about that at all, or kind of let people know where they might be able to see some of your work?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, well, probably when Mike Dorsey and I, who was a mutual friend of ours, he reached out to me to make a documentary and we put a couple of, we put three together actually and the most well known is called the six degrees of health or sculptor and I've always been sort of, when they say obsessed by but I've always been very interested in study the Tate La Bianca murders and Mike saw that in me in between the two of us really we put this thing together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had a tour devoted strictly to the Tatelabianca murders called the Helter Schelter tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that documentary got a lot of attention and it brought me to the attention of the people who produced the TV show Aquarius that was loosely based on the Tatelabianca murders.
[SPEAKER_00]: And ultimately Quentin Tarantino saw the documentary and hired me to consult on once upon a time in Hollywood with the history.
[SPEAKER_00]: of the victims and the crimes themselves, although the crimes weren't, I shouldn't say that I want to be a spoiler, but he wanted to know more about the victims and their lives, and I was happy to provide those details.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and I know that he's striped for a lot of authenticity and sort of the locations and the characters in that movie, and it might be my favorite Tarantino movie, honestly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like that movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't say I was a huge Tarantino fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I liked his movies, but this one, of course,
[SPEAKER_00]: a huge emotional attachment, not just because the involvement, but because I've studied those people for so many years, and to see them come to life and be happy, and that was a real, that was very moving, and it was the closest I've ever got the time travel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for doing this show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought of you because of Mike Dorsey, who has been on my show before, everybody can listen to his biggie smalls episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he and I talked a bit about dearly departed, and I've listened to your podcast, the dearly
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, you know, I should reach out to you if I'm doing a story that either takes place in Hollywood or LA or someone that basically find somebody that has some knowledge about local, you know, mysteries or murders or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so today, I am lucky to have enough to have you because we are covering the graystone mansion, the murder suicide with EL do he needs sunned.
[SPEAKER_02]: and this is a it's just a strange story and I first came across it because I used to go visit the graystone mansion in Beverly Hills because it's a park nowadays when I first moved LA and I would bring whenever I had family visiting I would take them to the graystone mansion just because it's beautiful you get to walk around you can bring food and have a picnic and see the mansion in the grounds and that's when I first learned of this story which will
[SPEAKER_02]: It is an odd one and it does involve a political scandal and involves lots of rumors and conjectures nowadays and what I think I'm going to do to start us off is give a very brief synopsis of the murder suicide like the night of the murder suicide and then go back in time and kind of fill in some historical details and who what when we're how all those kind of questions and the reason I'm going to do that is because as I was researching the story
[SPEAKER_02]: there very much is a like commonly held story of what happened that night at the graystone mansion and then when you research it some of those details are actually incorrect and listeners know that I love kind of like the common story and comparing it to something that has more detail.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say comparing it to the true story because there's still is there's a chance of some cover up in this and this murder suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I am curious
[SPEAKER_02]: and you've told me you know a little bit about this story if I was to ask you and I don't want to put you on the spot so you don't have to do this but if I was to say could you explain what happened that night in 1929 on February I can't find the date but in 1929 could you like do a brief hey here's what happened or here's what I remember of this story
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to think of an asshole, but I can't, as a tour guide, as a tour guide, you know, going by the place as most of them do, while actually most of them probably don't, but you would point out the mansion because of the movies that were filmed there and they would say, you know, and in 1929, they would even say 1929, but they would say,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the net dohini, who was the son of Dohini of the T-Pot, Dome scandal, was murdered by his boyfriend, Hugh Plunkett, who then turned the gun on himself, and so died in as a sort of lover spurned, I guess you would.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad I'm glad that's even your your brief synopsis.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I'll kind of fill in a couple of little holes and then I'll and then we'll start at the beginning.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of do some history because we got to explore EL do he need Ned's father.
[SPEAKER_02]: The T-pot dome scandal.
[SPEAKER_02]: They all kind of connect in with this in really interesting ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the characters of of that murder suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just mentioned Ned do he need he was 36 at the time of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: he worked for his father a very prolific oil man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was kind of trying to do the voice from there will be blood and his kind of people refer to the the other guy's name's Hugh Plunkett as Ned's personal secretary sometimes you read that it's his chauffeur.
[SPEAKER_00]: show for, yeah, that's the one I've heard the most.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's actually just an old friend.
[SPEAKER_02]: They had been friends since they were like teenagers and I would call him more of just a do it everything guy like he worked for his friend and would just do whatever he asked because that was his job.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of like today we'd probably call it like an executive assistant, you know, somebody that's running errands and doing anything that's asked of him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And on the 9th of February 16th, 1929, Hugh Plunkett, the secretary, arrives at the Great Stone Mansion around 930 p.m.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had his own key, people knew him on the property, so he was able to get through the gate.
[SPEAKER_02]: He let himself in and went into a guest room in the East Wing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He called in sort of the internal communication of some kind, whether it be like an intercom system or a phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: He calls up to Ned Dohini and says, can you come talk to me?
[SPEAKER_02]: Ned comes down to the guest room.
[SPEAKER_02]: They talk for a few hours and around 11 pm Lucy Ned's wife hears a gunshot and she's in the library and she doesn't call the cops.
[SPEAKER_02]: She calls the family
[SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Fishball comes, he's, you know, 30 minutes or so later in the arrives at the house, and they head to the east wing where she heard the gunshot, and they're coming out of a door to the bedroom, is Hugh Plunkett, they see him holding a revolver, he goes back into the room slams the door, they hear a gunshot again, they enter the room and they find Ned Doheny,
[SPEAKER_02]: shot he's on the ground like he was in a chair when he was shot and he's toppled over blood is everywhere out of his head there's a whiskey glass next to his body and Hugh Plunkett is sort of in the doorway to the bedroom face first gun is underneath him cigarette in his left hand which is actually burning his fingers after he got shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: and the cops don't come for like two or three hours because Lucy calls family members first.
[SPEAKER_02]: So family comes over and is trying to trample sitting around the scene before cops ever show up.
[SPEAKER_02]: The cops show up and they kind of briefly just go, yep, murder suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go, but a big, but a boom, case closed, to see you guys later.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where a lot of rumors and speculation and conjecture and all this kind of stuff come into play because the cops shut down the case very quickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're dealing with the dohini's, which are very rich and powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is in the midst of the T-Put Dome scandal, which again, I'll get into in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are some some rumors that these two guys were killed because killed or killed each other or you shot net or net shot you there's debate all around it because they were both having to testify to the to the Senate about the teapot dome scandal so that's again the common story and you even put it wisely as well of the rumor I always heard is that they were lovers and that had something to do with what happened that night.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as I said, I actually found some more information to this story that does put some of that into doubt and even the events of the night into doubt as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, yeah, it's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be glad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm glad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was two days later that they chose closed the case and there's evidence that the bodies were moved.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's strange things about gunpowder residue, which I'll get into, that was notated right away in the newspapers and the cops still just closed the case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Super quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know if it was, I know Beverly Hills has only been incorporated about 102 years, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I guess they would have had their own police department at that point, but it couldn't be very big, because it doesn't own so much of Beverly Hills at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, the mansion graystone, it's the land it was built on which today is it's just just north of Sunset Boulevard at Beverly Hills and if people listening have not been to Beverly Hills, whatever you imagine the Hills at Beverly Hills being, that is what it's like today.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's mansions and beautiful properties and movie stars and those kind of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at that time that the hills in that area were owned by the dohinges and they used it as a ranch.
[SPEAKER_02]: They would hike there.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were read horses.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were no houses built.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sunset Boulevard was a dirt road at that point in time in that area.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I'll, I'll give myself a little, a little props here, uh, if you want to know more about the history of Sunset Boulevard watch autobiography, a motor trend TV with myself as we have an episode at called Dead Man's Curve, where we actually do talk about the history of Sunset Boulevard.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it was just fields and dirt and ranches.
[SPEAKER_02]: Beverly Hills was there.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did have their employees department, but it was very tiny.
[SPEAKER_02]: And most of the wealthy people in Los Angeles of the time live kind of southwest of downtown, Brentwood Beverly Hills, those places were not developed.
[SPEAKER_02]: They weren't, you know, they weren't what they are today.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is a very, that's a very good point, Scott.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they were just hunting off their balcony, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just, you know, they were just, you know, they were just, you know, they just were, I mean, they had so much land, it wouldn't even true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to really understand the depths of this mystery, we do have to start with Ned Dohini's father, El Edward Lawrence Dohini.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was an oilman and it's funny that this murder takes place in the grace of
[SPEAKER_02]: the, a little bit of an inspiration for there will be blood, the Paul Thomas Anderson movie, not fully.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's loosely loosely based on Edward Lawrence, Doheny, and they even shot the bowling alley scene for that movie in the graystone mansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's just a fun, fun bit of Hollywood history there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Edward Lawrence was born in Wisconsin in 1856 and when he became an adult he was trying to prospect in mine and find his fortune throughout the southwest of United States specifically Arizona in New Mexico.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where he met his business partner Charles Canfield and also he met a guy named Albert Fall who would later be involved with the T-pot dumps candle which would get to as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eel Doheny moved to Los Angeles in the 1890s because his business partner had moved out first can field and Eel kind of followed him in an 1892 they discovered oil just north of downtown Los Angeles and by 1900 they were making half a million to a million dollars a year just on that oil field.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like all other good oil men, they had bought other oil fields and they were growing very quickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: He even had oil fields in a company in Mexico.
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the 1920s, his only rival was really John D. Raccock Rockefeller.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Dohini was one of the richest men in the world by the 1920s.
[SPEAKER_02]: and L.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: was his home, like he was, he was an L.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he did have a daughter in 1893, but she died very young.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he had his son Edward Jr., or as they called Ned, that's in our story.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Ned's mother, she and E.L.
[SPEAKER_02]: actually got divorced.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was in the 1890s when they got divorced.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is just a little piece of information to keep in the back of your mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: She actually committed suicide when he was still very young.
[SPEAKER_02]: She drank battery acid, which is just, that does not sound like a fun way to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it wouldn't be my first choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm glad you're there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of stories and details about Edward Lawrence, Dohini, the sake of our story is just safe to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's very, very, very, very rich and very powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And listed for more money and more land and more power.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Ned, his son was kind of his pride and joy.
[SPEAKER_02]: and like a lot of tropes about kids growing up with these super wealthy industrialist guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ned was a bit spoiled and was heavy into drinking even as a young man throughout his life and basically just worked for his dad and had it had it rather easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the mansion, Christone, that we keep talking about,
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I definitely recommend if you come to LA, please go visit it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is open.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't go inside the mansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I sure they're for a private event, but you can go to the grounds and it is amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always, I don't know if you had the same experience Scott, but I kept thinking that EL do he need built the mansion, but it was Ned, and I wasn't even aware of that until recently.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you all, did you think EL built the mansion?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't agree with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wait, will we know it was built for his son for the wedding, wasn't he?
[SPEAKER_00]: Wedding, it was a gift.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it was a gift for the land was a gift, but E.L.
[SPEAKER_02]: didn't design the home or have it built, so Ned had it built, E.L.
[SPEAKER_02]: paid for it, obviously.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was Ned's kind of dream to have it built, and what they did is when they first decided to build this and they get the land as a wedding gift,
[SPEAKER_02]: Ned actually hired a guy named Wallace Neff to design the home, and then for some reason they didn't like the design.
[SPEAKER_02]: I fired him.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hired Gordon Kaufman who designed a lot of other famous buildings and things around southern California.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Duhini sent people to Europe to find designs and furnishings.
[SPEAKER_02]: They even went to Europe themselves to get inspired, and they would hire craftsmen from Europe to come to LA to build this house.
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the time it was done, it was, they had spent around $500 million in today's money.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one knows for sure could have been more than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Ned Dohini moved in with his wife Lucy, their five kids in 1928, late 1928.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the second largest house in California after only the
[SPEAKER_02]: So cool, and the mantra was 46,000 square feet.
[SPEAKER_02]: So just a little bit bigger than my house, just a tad, it's very small amount.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, while this home is being dripped up and built, this little, a little tiny thing, a little tiny political event in US history, I think how the Teapot Dome scandal was going on, which is the biggest political scandal in the 20th century until Watergate in the 1970s and every single one of our characters today is caught up in that scandal and one of way or another.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm a big down nabby fan.
[SPEAKER_02]: I came into it late.
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually just started watching it this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they even talk about the T-pop dome scandal in one of the episodes of Down nabby.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, the scandal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know much about the T-pop dome scandal?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't retain it because, yeah, I mean, it's all we would first and then it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, me neither, I mean, I kind of write about it because of this story, because I honestly couldn't remember much about it at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it involves President Harding's presidency, and basically a lot of corruption charges, bribery charges.
[SPEAKER_02]: specifically around Harding Secretary of the Interior, a guy named Albert Fall, who I mentioned a little earlier, was friends with E.L.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dohini.
[SPEAKER_02]: They met when they were prospectors and minors in Arizona.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Albert Fall, the just of it is, is he took money to give land leases to oil guys for super cheap.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't compete.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't take other bids.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just took federal land.
[SPEAKER_02]: and gave it to these oilmen, including heel Dohini for a place called Elx Hill, California.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the Teapot Dump's Gennels named after another area that was given to a different oil tycoon called the Teapot Dump in Wyoming.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Dohini gave Albert Fall $100,000 cash for the rights to the land and the way that he paid for it, the way that he got the money to Albert Fall, is Ned Dohini, his pride and joy son, and Ned's best friend slash secretary slash chauffeur.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you plunk it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Went to the East Coast, went to New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: They walked into a bank, they got $100,000 cash out of an account, they put it in a black briefcase or at a shakecase or something like that, and they took it to Albert Fall directly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is in 1921 when the payoff actually happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Ned and Hugh are people from the murder suicide, are the ones that actually handed the money over in the T-pot dome scandal.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's huge, huge news.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of them quoted as saying that Albert Fall was paid and quote unquote new bills Which I just love that imagery of like this crisp clean, you know, dollar bills And I'd like your I'd like you to attach a case that sounds so it's yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: That's when I really hope it was and I hope they work like gloves when they delivered it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would do it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do it up, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in 1927, the Supreme Court ruled that these leases on these lands were improper and they took the land back and gave it to the government and Albert Fall actually went to jail for taking these bribes.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, the rich guys that bribed Albert Fall, they didn't get even get a slap on the risk because that's the way the world works.
[SPEAKER_02]: and however in 1929, it was still being investigated by the Senate because politics, so politicians are trying to use it to, all their different ways the politics do, politics and they were still bringing in Hugh and Ned for questioning later on to testify more about the, the bribery.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Hugh Plunkett being an employee, a lot of people assume that he might have being set up to take a fall,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that's what I've always understood, yeah, it's a very wise thought or theory and I don't have an answer to any of that, but it's definitely worth keeping keeping in the back of your minds as you hear the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Hugh Plunkett, again, just a kind of refresh for the night of the murder suicide, he's the one that supposedly shot Ned and then shot himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a story I came across that is actually there's a lot more to it than I initially read, but apparently the day or two before the murder suicide Lucy and Ned went to Hugh Plunkett's apartment and had what they were calling or alcohol in intervention.
[SPEAKER_02]: and they were like, you're reacting weird, you're stressed, you drink in too much, you're taking pills, you've got to get some help.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to go to like a sanitarium, you've got to go to a hospital, you got to calm down and get some help.
[SPEAKER_02]: And apparently you were mouth shut, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's that's the secret to this is where they're doing it to say keep your mouth shut.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, so that's going on in the background of all of this, and the family doctor, Dr. Fishball, after the murder suicide, he kept talking to the authorities about this saying that he was taking, I think, ten times the recommended doses of whatever sort of pills he was taking at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he also was having teeth pain and back pain and all this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: as much as I keep wanting to go kind of down that alley of like keep your fucking mouth shut hue.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, go to a hospital.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're you're you're going through something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just get you away from this testimony.
[SPEAKER_02]: He actually was going through a divorce and the doctor I told authorities that the divorce was really having a huge impact on hue.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's just something, because that's where, again, these rumors and things, there's like one side of like, or the dohini's doing all of this to make sure that they're protecting the teapot domes scandal or is he actually really going through something.
[SPEAKER_02]: After experimenting and not experimenting after investigating a lot of crazy stories in my life, I kind of think there's probably truth to both of those.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he probably was dealing with a lot in his divorce, but he was also possibly very stressed about testifying and knowing what happened and knowing about the bribery, etc., etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I agree, but I think more so because they were throwing him under the bus.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, what do I do here?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Ned, my friend or however their relationship is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, no, we got to get out of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, yeah, well, you mentioned earlier, he's like the easy fall guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's pin it in him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it does make sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really does.
[SPEAKER_02]: It all kind of ties together.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, and we already mentioned this, I highlighted this in my notes because I really want to make sure to say it, but if he actually goes to a sanitarium or a hospital or something to get help, he would not have to go testify.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is that definitely lines up as like there's probably some influence.
[SPEAKER_02]: upon him to go get help, not just for his own mental health, but also we don't want you to test to find.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so all of this is leading up just days before the murder.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we're going to go back to the night of the murder suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to fill in details that we didn't talk about earlier.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is all just important to kind of understand the evening.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of the information I found is from reading old newspapers, which you can't fully trust.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, I did find a book called Beverly Hills Confidential A Century of Star Scandles and Murders by Barbara Schroeder and Clark Fog.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they actually were able to access Beverly Hills police records that no one had looked at in the hundred years of this case having.
[SPEAKER_02]: been going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they weren't super like they didn't really definitively solve the case or anything, but it definitely shed some light into some activity and more witness statements from that evening.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so here we are.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's February 16th, 1929.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a Saturday, and Hugh Plunkett, Ned in Lucy and Dr. Fishball actually all had lunch together that morning,
[SPEAKER_02]: at the Graystone mansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, according to the doctor's witness statements, he was there because they were trying to get Hugh, like we've already said, to go somewhere to get help.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were all discussing it because Hugh didn't want to go get help.
[SPEAKER_02]: They leave lunch, specifically the doctor, and Hugh, they're leaving lunch, and on the way out, the Duhini's tell Dr. Fishball, make sure we can contact you later, because Hugh's definitely going through something.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, would you want to make sure, like, you're on call, you can page you just in case something happens?
[SPEAKER_02]: and the doctor's like, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that night around 9 9 30 hue comes back to the graystone mansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is where our first little scene comes in, Scott.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I'll do is I'll read the narration or the this scene descriptions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's have you read hue.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, hue plunk it rolls up to the gate of the graystone mansion in his car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's around 9 30 PM.
[SPEAKER_02]: He crinks his window down as the guard approaches.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even a Mr. Plunk it didn't expect you back
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi will.
[SPEAKER_02]: The guard opens the gate and waves you through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have a good one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Moments later, he was walking to the entrance of the mansion when he stumbles upon night watchman Ed McCarty.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Plunkett, hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: Evening Ed, I suppose they've all turned him for the night.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so, not as far as I can tell anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see.
[SPEAKER_02]: I find it really interesting that there were more witnesses than I ever expected because there was a night watchman that was the gatekeeper also there was a live-in like writing instructor who lived at the mansion that heard Hugh come in with his car and go to a like a storage closet where he kept fishing equipment, which is an interesting comment because I wonder if that's where a gun was and because I don't know because I cannot find information
[SPEAKER_02]: because that's that's a big piece of evidence there and like who's gone was it and I can never I cannot find anything about it being he was gunner Ned's gun uh... in bob arbor and uh... Clark didn't have that information in their books
[SPEAKER_02]: no, no, they did not.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's, yeah, so if anybody knows a who's gun that was right in a study of strange at gmail.com, I would love to to find that out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, when Hugh went into the mansion, he turned towards the east wing where there were a couple of guest rooms.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I have a question for you, Scott, because you've been inside these rooms.
[SPEAKER_02]: The stories talk about him closing the door to the bedroom, but he was found in the hallway, and front of the bedroom, sort of in between the bedroom door and a hallway.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's a door in the hallway, like I think when they talk about him closing the door, it was a door from the hallway and to like the main area of the house, do you remember?
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess the room that the inside the inside the place, I mean I didn't have a map of the house from the you know of an overhead view of which room was which room but the room that is commonly referred to as the murder room is actually a really modest
[SPEAKER_00]: little tiny room.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's almost like they would say a servant's quarters or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not big.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they might have, if I remember, they might have a little sort of sitting room in between the bathroom and the room itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: But otherwise, no, it's a very small room.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not it's not big and what I wish because I wish I had I've been to the mansion a much of times I've never been inside of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I really want to see what the setup is because I have seen an overhead map of the home and it looks like there's two guest rooms across a hallway from one another and then the hallway the main hallway goes out to like a foyer or bigger area.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's a door that blocks off that hallway to the two guest rooms.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's where Hugh slammed a door.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it was not a big room.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just a little guest room, and you can actually pull up crime-seemed photos online.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll provide some links in my show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so Ed enters the home and heads to that modest guest bedroom where apparently he would stay from time to time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was kind of like his room if he's staying at the house that he, I think I said Ed is second to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm at Hugh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hugh actually was in charge of the building of the graystone mansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he not only works for Ned, he knows the house intimately, because he was the one overseeing the building.
[SPEAKER_02]: He knew everybody that worked there.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had his own key.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would even sign checks in Ned's name during the building of the home.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he was that close with the family.
[SPEAKER_02]: And once he's in that room,
[SPEAKER_02]: Ned comes down to talk to him, Ned is in slippers of coat, his underwear, like a robe, and they start talking, and they also start drinking.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is whiskey that was found in the room in whiskey glasses.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, where things get different from the common story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember that Lucy apparently hears a gunshot and then calls Dr. Fishball.
[SPEAKER_02]: According to all the witness testimonies,
[SPEAKER_02]: When Ned was talking to Hugh, Ned called Dr. Fishball.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was before a shot ever happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: He called Fishball because he said, Hugh's back, he's still having issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't want to go to the Sanitarium.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you come up here and talk to him?
[SPEAKER_02]: So the doctor left, he was actually at a movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: He leaves the movie, he's page and contacted, he comes up to the house, he arrives,
[SPEAKER_02]: around 11 p.m.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's some inconsistencies of what I've read at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the reports say that basically the minute before he arrives at the house, there's a gunshot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some say the gunshot happened right as he showed up at the house, the first one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this brings us to our second scene, which just takes some assumptions to that setup.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you have that
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's around 11.30pm and Lucy opens the front door for Dr. Fishball.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Thank you for coming.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in the East Wing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Lucy and Dr. Walk toured the guest rooms of the East Wing, and suddenly there's a gunshot.
[SPEAKER_02]: They both freeze.
[SPEAKER_02]: What was- Oh no!
[SPEAKER_02]: They both run towards the direction of the gun.
[SPEAKER_02]: The running towards the guest rooms, Lucy calls out as they run Ned.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hew?
[SPEAKER_02]: A door opens and he'll plunk it emerges.
[SPEAKER_02]: He shouts, a Dr. Fishball and Lucy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, uh, do you mind reading Hugh here as well?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh sure, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stay out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Lucy sees that Hugh is holding a revolver.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hugh, what's going on?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hugh goes back into the room and slams the door shut.
[SPEAKER_02]: The doctor and Lucy look at each other and they both slowly creed towards the door.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then, after a long moment of silence.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stay here.
[SPEAKER_02]: The doctor approaches the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Dr. Fishball.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm coming in.
[SPEAKER_02]: The opencedor enters the gastroint leaving Lucy, alone in the hallway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now remember, the common story here is that the gunshot happened a solid 30 minutes or more before the doctor even came.
[SPEAKER_02]: The doctor was called after the first shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does not appear that that is the case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, we cannot fully trust all these witness statements for reasons we will talk about in a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: There he goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I ask you, Michael?
[SPEAKER_00]: Please.
[SPEAKER_00]: If Lucy's alone in the hallway, how can there be other witness statements?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all the people that worked there, so the gate guy at the gate, the gate, the worker.
[SPEAKER_02]: The gate guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: The gate guy, the gate, which I did not mean to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: He could have been, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have no clue.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, I will say this.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many problems, which is why so many rumors and things are around this case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of the information the police went off of is from the family doctor.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even think Lucy really talked to the cops much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they mainly talk to people that work to the house.
[SPEAKER_02]: and the doctor.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I left everybody else alone.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the doctor might have his own motives being the family doctor to one of the wealthiest people in the worry of world at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, just remember all that, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am going to read a quote.
[SPEAKER_02]: from the doctor, Dr. Fishball, from one of his witness statements.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, I asked Mrs. Dohini to wait and open the door to find plunket scrub, sprawled, there we go sprawled on the floor, in the hallway motionless.
[SPEAKER_02]: Blood was streaming from his head.
[SPEAKER_02]: When entering the guest room chamber, the body of Mr. Dohini Jr.
[SPEAKER_02]: was found lying sprawled on the floor near the foot of the bed, still breathing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But blood flowing profusely from both sides of his head.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Dohini's pulse was still faintly perceptible.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was lying on his back and froth and blood were gurgling from his mouth, in order to relieve the breathing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was turned over on his right side by knee, until the blood and froth cleared out of his mouth and throat.
[SPEAKER_02]: After which he was turned back into his original position where he remained, he stopped breathing in about 30 minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: After coming out of the guest room, I met Mrs. Dohini, who had been waiting, and told her that both were shot that plunk it was dead and that Mr. Dohini was still breathing.
[SPEAKER_02]: She burst into tears and said, Oh, how horrible!
[SPEAKER_02]: And rushed to the telephone to call her sister!
[SPEAKER_02]: It was decided to call Mr. and Mrs. Dohini, senior, they arrived in about 20 to 30 minutes upon his arrival.
[SPEAKER_02]: They notified the police.
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, they call family members.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do not call the cops.
[SPEAKER_02]: They call a family members.
[SPEAKER_02]: This also backs up my thinking that I think they're correct and that the first gunshot happened after the doctor was called because Ned was still breathing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't really have a reason to question that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like why, like he still died.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't really
[SPEAKER_02]: doubt that that situation happened with a doctor went in and he was kind of breathing and he tried to clear him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is actually where one of the big misconceptions of the case happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: The doctor admitted to the police that night when the police showed up that he had moved the bodies.
[SPEAKER_02]: But only so much to check if they were alive and for him to clear neds like breathing passages and stuff of blood.
[SPEAKER_02]: He did not move the bodies.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you read about this, people are like, the bodies were moved.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were moved.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, but how much were they moved?
[SPEAKER_02]: It turns out they were really just moved in those very kind of minor ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: Still very important when you're investigating a crime scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they were not like dragged around the rooms or the hallways or anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were moved for the doctor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or by.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, I don't know how far ahead you want to get, but it's commonly known back then, especially that, you know, the law enforcement weren't the first people to be called.
[SPEAKER_00]: I happen to have it with Merrill and it happened with Lana Turner and, you know, Cheryl Crane and Johnny stopping out of the first person you call is the attorney, or in Merrill once case, the doctor.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was in Palburn, MGM scandal with Louis B. Mayors and other one, you know, you call, they come and clean up the scene and then you call on enforcement and also law enforcement and notoriously crooked in Los Angeles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and Los Angeles, especially at that time, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, this is where rumors happen, though.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where a lot of these misconceptions of the case comes from is those little details like calling the doctor and not calling the police
[SPEAKER_02]: saying the body has been moved, and by the time the police arrived, there were relatives in the house.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're the bodies had been obviously like we said move maybe not moved as much as some people like to say when they tell the story now But the bodies it's still been touched and moved and He was found with a cigarette and his left hand It was burned all the way down and actually burned as fingers which a lot of people point out is that's weird if you're committing suicide Where you smoking and holding a cigarette
[SPEAKER_02]: The gun is commonly said that it was found under his body.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was found very close to his body, just sort of like on the right side of his body by his right hand.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also you read, there's this weird thing where you constantly read that Hugh Plunkett was shot in the back or the back of the head, which doesn't make sense of your committing suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, there are photographs of him at the morgue.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was shot in the temple on his right side.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm looking at the crime scene photos right now and it's I can kind of see the gun just to the right of him and and also a massive amount of blood blood Yeah, coming from the left side of his head while that's where he's lying.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, yeah, so and there are more the more photos.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I've only found maybe in the book
[SPEAKER_02]: that I read.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the only place I saw he was more fogo, but yeah, you can see the bullet hole in his right temple, which would match up with him shooting himself at this right hand.
[SPEAKER_02]: So evidence is not super clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he was shot in the temple and on the back of the head.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, powder burns were found on Ned's head, like the gun was right up against his head.
[SPEAKER_02]: On he, though, they did not find the same kind of powder burns, meaning he could have been shot from farther away.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is a piece of evidence that they found that night that the newspapers did get a hold of right away, so that had just been reported on since this case came out.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, police wrapped things up very quick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two days done murder suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what, you know, Mr. E.L.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dohini says.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what the police are gonna say.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the newspapers claim that he died because of quote unquote sudden insanity.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they talked a lot about him going through all these psychological issues that he was going through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which again, only come from
[SPEAKER_02]: the family doctor pretty much and the dohinis.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a friend of few plunkets that talk to a newspaper in Long Beach who was a police detective but not for Los Angeles and I don't believe who did tell the police that that he was dealing with a lot of problems because of his divorce and his fine wife Billy who he missed and he was drinking a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: So
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's there's just weird stuff, and I'm not sure how to actually navigate all of it even telling it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So after no, no, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's it's it's it's it's it's very complicated and Yeah, because people are scrambling to cover up save their own asses by the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so after the, after the, after the known, after the murder suicide, Ned was buried at Forest lawn, the famous cemetery in Los Angeles, which I, I imagine you probably did two words there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you not?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we never toured cemeteries, but I, I go through a lot of my own.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We never, we never did that as an official thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, Ned is buried at Forestland Cemetery in this very ornate large structure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's actually alter from Italy that the Dothini's brought right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, no, but I didn't write down what it was called.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wasn't going to say it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm glad you brought it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and Hugh Plunkett is buried, uh, just maybe like a hundred feet away.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just kind of like slightly down the hill, and obviously a not as ornate burial site.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this brings a lot of conjecture in its own rice because the dohini's were very Catholic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Super Catholic donated tons of money to Catholic churches and causes and everything else.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Dohini's had a family plot in a Catholic church cemetery that Ned was not buried in.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was buried at Forest lawn.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so some people think that this points to a question of the evening that maybe Hugh did not kill Ned and then kill himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's the other way around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe Ned killed Hugh and then killed himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because committing suicide,
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do not know the answer for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, like you said, he was buried in this amazing altar that was brought over.
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe that's the reason he was buried there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they couldn't have put that in at the Catholic Church cemetery.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that is definitely one of the domain questions that people bring up.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at the photograph.
[SPEAKER_00]: I took one of the Dohee grave via, you know, with Hugh Punkins in view.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's about six or seven rows from the Doheeini grave.
[SPEAKER_00]: our memorial, amazing, sarcophagus thing, and it does seem to me that that would mean they felt some sort of obligation to him because they're easily, could have said, no, we don't want him anywhere near there, force-long is a big cemetery, they couldn't put, if you plunk it anywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now after this as well, the newspaper is obviously catch wind of this story very quickly and they start reporting on it immediately because E. L. Dohini is a very major character in United States and the T. Paddam Kitt scandal is still going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the name is in the news all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is very inconsistent with which
[SPEAKER_02]: all the reports are very inconsistent on this case.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to write down a bunch of examples, but it was like so many.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'm not going to go through all these, but it's like some people claim that they were killed in Ned's bedroom, not the guest room, some people claim that Ned invited you up to his room to stay the night so he could calm down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's where a lot of the rumors and speculation that they were lovers comes from is some of these newspaper reports that reported that right away.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also inconsistencies about what he was going through and again we have these stories that the doctor was called after the first shot and he was at the mood like there's just so many inconsistencies of the newspaper reports that it just gets it makes a complicated situation even more complicated I think that's my point
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the, you know, the insinuating that it was a gay thing, it spells a lot of things out because it was on the ground floor, and I'm sure that the dohini's were upstairs, and that dohini was and is, you know, pajamas and underwear, and they were in this non-descript room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm just off.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know off the main hallways I was looking at the pictures again and it appears that Ned was killed in the main room, but there's not a hallway from you know from the main hallway it's like how afraid off the hallway so it looks as if a coupon gets lying in between in the doorway of the main hallway so it's not it's not within the room
[SPEAKER_02]: interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, and everybody out there, if you're interested in this, pull up the crime scene photos.
[SPEAKER_02]: There, there are, you know, if you, if you're okay looking at stuff like that, because it is gory.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it is interesting to see the layout and to see that he is in his robe and his underwear, Ned is in his robe and underwear.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've been drinking because there is whiskey and a whiskey glass next to Ned.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, they were, and yeah, so the rumors about the lover thing, I was trying to pinpoint where that started because it is not in the newspaper articles of the time, and that is because newspapers didn't really do they didn't really report on that in the 1920s.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know, there might be little secret in you windows of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I point one more thing out, sorry, Michael?
[SPEAKER_02]: Please.
[SPEAKER_00]: As I was going over my pictures, next to Hugh Plunkett is his mother.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, generally, if people are going to be buying a grave at, they call, at need, it's the next available spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But clearly, the dohinis, maybe they own a lot of property.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they own a lot of that property on the hill.
[SPEAKER_00]: But his mother, Plunkett's mother, died in 1931.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she is buried next to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it would have been a line of plots that were owned by one person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And something else, it just came to mind, I think there are more dohinis on that hilltop, not just net at the very top, but I think there are other dohini relatives in the vicinity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's quite likely that dohini's just own that whole hill and provided the graves.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to go a little out of order for what my notes were here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to share my own personal theory.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've changed my mind multiple times so if something comes up even today, I'm happy to always change my mind about this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there was a cover up that night.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's who shot who or why people were shot necessarily.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you shot Ned and then shot himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was going through a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was a combination of divorce plus pain plus the testimony.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I don't think the murder was covered up because the dohini's didn't want Ned to be known as committing suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of people think the dohini's just don't want their son to sound like he killed somebody in committed suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually think it happened the way the police say it happened, which is Hugh Kildum.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the cover up just comes from the fact that the dohini's were worried this would affect the testimony, the scandal,
[SPEAKER_02]: open and shut, you know, like, this is a huge crazy man.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's, he was going through a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's had emotional breakdowns and obviously doing a lot because of his divorce.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it does that, does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_02]: And what you're saying about the graves is the reason I wanted to bring this up because, like, if there's other dohinis there, that means they were, there's no big conspiracy around Ned committing suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: I suppose so, I can't, I don't see to me, I cannot fathom that the dohini's had empathy for anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like, oh, if you killed my son, come here, be buried with us, it doesn't make sense to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel it was some kind of obligation to them, or guilt to those people to provide for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I didn't see.
[SPEAKER_00]: You killed my son here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a grave, it doesn't, that doesn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: that you know, yeah, that is, I see I didn't think about it that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is, so do you have any, do you have a theory on this at all?
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you, has anything changed your mind about anything or given you ideas today?
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, personally, you know, I'm not desperate to believe in a sexual scandal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't necessarily, I wouldn't consider it a sexual scandal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Ned possibly had some sort of relationship very close, if not sexual, very, very close relationship to Hugh Punket.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Hugh Punket was getting thrown under the bus by the Dohinges, and he was desperate because his personal life was falling apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: And probably on that night, he just, like, I'm fed up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to talk to Ned now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was trying to, it was damaged control by the Dohinges,
[SPEAKER_00]: have him eradicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that's why they feel guilt and put him there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But going through the murder suicide, I don't know, it makes more sense that they got rid of him and felt a little.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's a very public way to do that, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that can really make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was being that their son was, you know, they tried to hang it on
[SPEAKER_00]: it's it makes it certainly confuses things further.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does, but you you hit upon something that I think is very clear, but it's still worth saying, which is the murder scene, even if things were moved or police influenced or all those kind of things, it was a highly emotional scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was not, you know, it's not a setup to get rid of plunket or anything
[SPEAKER_02]: the events of that night.
[SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion, it doesn't seem like this is a pre-planned situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something came to a head that evening.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now I'm glad I had you on because I actually really like everything you just said about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just going to latch on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So all of your theories for now on Scott.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's one more thing I want to read.
[SPEAKER_02]: that I found really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Raymond Chandler, the famous author of a lot of great noir mystery books, his famous detective Philip Marlow talks about a case called the Cassidy Case and the book, The High Window.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is a fictional account of the dohini case.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was inspired by the dohini case.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is Philip Marlow in that book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to make a point, and it's an important point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just look at the Cassidy case, Cassidy was a very rich man, a multi-millionaire.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a grown-up son.
[SPEAKER_02]: One night, the cops were called to his home, and young Cassidy was on his back on the floor with blood all over his face, and a bullet hole in the side of his head.
[SPEAKER_02]: His secretary was lying on his back in an adjoining bathroom, with his head against the second bathroom door leading to a hall, and a cigarette burned out between his fingers on his left hand, just a short, burned-out stubbed that had scorched the skin between his fingers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, was lying by his right hand, he was shot in the head, not a contact
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of drinking had been done four hours had a lapse since the deaths and the family doctor had been there for three of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, what did you do with the Cassidy Case?
[SPEAKER_02]: Breeze, which is a detective he's dying to, says murder and suicide during a drinking spree.
[SPEAKER_02]: The secretary went, hey, why aren't shot young Cassidy?
[SPEAKER_02]: I read it in the papers or something, is that what you want me to say?
[SPEAKER_02]: You read it in the papers, I said, but it wasn't so.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's more, you knew it wasn't so, and the DA knew it wasn't so, and the DA's investigators were pulled off the case with them in matter of hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was no inquest.
[SPEAKER_02]: But every quiet crime reporter in town in every cop on every homicide detail knew it was Cassidy that did the shooting.
[SPEAKER_02]: That it was Cassidy that was crazy drunk, that it was his secretary who tried to handle him and couldn't and at the last try to get away from him, but wasn't quick enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know it's a fictional inspiration, but it's interesting that he proposes here that what would be the Ned in that story, Sean is friend-first, and then may have committed suicide after that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's as much as I don't fully believe that, I wouldn't be surprised if one day we were able to piece this together and that was true, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a, it's a very interesting and then again, every theory makes sense, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a problem when all this stuff gets, you know, not investigated well and all this, you know, craziness happens around it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes it really tough.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, the graystone mansion, because that is a huge character in this case, and just a place that I love.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it is worth noting that Lucy continued to live in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: She got remarried a year later.
[SPEAKER_02]: She lived there for for for all a very long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, then she ended up moving in basically across the street.
[SPEAKER_02]: She had another house built in the area.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it went through a few other owners.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the city of Beverly Hills bought it in 1965 and they opened it to the public.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think 1971 they opened it up as a park called Graystone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's that's kind of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many other details of this case that I feel like I'm having to skip over, but just for the sake of trying to tell it and a slightly entertaining manner.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have any other questions or thoughts on this before we finish up?
[SPEAKER_00]: now it's not that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I went through the mansion, they had a re-enactment, a very loosely based re-enactment of the dohini scandal called the manor.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That they did in the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw that a couple of times too, and that was very, very trippy to be in the rooms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although they'll use all the rooms except for the one or the motor happened because that would
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just, it's a great story, it's, and what's kind of fun is that the the mansion itself has been used, you know, in horror movies and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it just lends more fun to the story and it's far enough to remove that it is a fun story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: To theorize, but, you know, it's just, it's unfortunate that these two guys, you know, ended the way they did and it has to do with the money, I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: all boils down to mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, ultimately, but you know, say emotion, I think the relationships be at sexual or, yeah, platonic, but certainly very deep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, that certainly contributed to it, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it can't be easy to be, again, this is basically like a glorified assistant.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's also probably your best friend.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is a weird, weird relationship to be and where someone has the sort of the money and business power over such a good friend.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or boy friend, whatever the relationship was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they didn't ban him from the property.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they waved him in and he went right in and got to the intercom or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he it wasn't they didn't see him as a as a threat at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's if they're just more of a More fuel to the more gossipy end of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely I wish investigators would have taken a little more time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have so many episodes that I've done where at the end of it I'm like I just wish the police just spent a little more time Yeah, I mean it was also new back then because West Hollywood wasn't incorporated yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, no man's land of
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, flicker bootlegging and then
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Beverly Hills, which was orange groves and lime of being fields at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it and I think the only thing within a mile of the Beverly Hills hotel aside from probably gray stone was orange groves and so they were you know that was it was quite out in the woods at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was before Pickford and Fairbanks even built a pick fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was it was a different time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was and I think Pickford lived down off will sure at that time if I remember correctly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, anyway, that's not important.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just me thinking of LA because I love LA Hollywood history.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much Scott for doing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to tell people where they can find your digital tours or your podcast or anything else?
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to give any choice?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have since we since COVID and we, you know, we shut down the business completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that we had on display in our museum, including like the Mansfield car and May West dentures and all sorts of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's been put into storage until we find a new home.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've learnt a lot to Angela's now, I live near Palm Springs, and I completely do all my work on YouTube now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at dearly departed tours on YouTube, instead of taking people around in my van and pointing cool things out, which a lot of them are now gone from LA, you know, they slowly, but surely so many people, so many things are being wrecked and torn down, I do everything virtually, I can go all over the world and show people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know much about the Robert Blake, uh, when he, when he shot was it his wife?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Bonnie Lee Bakley.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it wasn't his wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, not actually they were married, I think, because she was pregnant or she had the daughter that, yeah, that's the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to, I want to know more about mainly because, uh, where that happened is a restaurant that myself and my family go to at least once a month.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Bonnie Lee Bakery, you know, people were scrambling for alibis at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So many people who wanted her gone and she was a piece of work.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was a worker.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I couldn't imagine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't mean to go on a tangent there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just like, I like your work.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like that you know a lot of these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I really appreciate you coming on and providing the information and joining me on this weird story of the Dohini murder suicide
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will I will look forward to talking to you in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been fun to sort of stretch my tourism muscles again as it were.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I was I love that you had files to look at.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that I wanted to see the scenes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know there was something else that that was interesting i think to mention about the mansion so uh it became well it was actually like a monastery for a while there were nuns living in it yeah and then it became the home of the american film institute for a while and that's one it really went to hell you know the students were like carving up the band after imagine yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so then the city city got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know in what particular order, but but they they have to open it legally as a museum to keep it, you know, under their Some sort of charitable foundation, so you know if you keep your eyes open, they do an art and art thing designer thing, at least they used to.
[SPEAKER_00]: every year where there would be a dozen designers and they each designer designed a particular room, including the murder room.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can get in there sometimes and they do that reenactment, well loose reenactment play called the Manor.
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely, I would recommend checking out signing up at their website to get updates.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's a really interesting story about the nuns living there, which it makes sense
[SPEAKER_00]: and then ended up, you know, just being in the city.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and used in so many cool movies, I mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: So many movies, yeah, yeah, it was so many part of me when I was researching this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'm going to list all the cool movies.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, no, people can just look it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just no, it's in a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: You will recognize it from so many things in TV shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the interior too, that's very distinctive checkerboard hallway, I've seen it, it's so many movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, they're obviously open to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think people you can get married there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's they do a lot of things and it's definitely worth checking it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to I need to do it more and actually I think I'm going to go Tomorrow morning we're recording this the week before Christmas and I may go tomorrow morning just to like Films and videos and stuff with my son and because I haven't been there probably four or five years.
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't visited so I want to go back and check it out now after I've been reading all about it
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, take your map and you can probably peek in the windows window.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a good idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a very good idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, well thank you so much Scott.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will talk to you soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've just listened to a study of strange.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Until next time, stay curious and stay strange.