[SPEAKER_01]: Hello adventurers and welcome to Dice Tower Theatre Presents, after the oath.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where we explore the characters and players behind Dawn the Dragons, just a reminder you can watch the unedited video of this recording and support our community by joining our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash good-hand productions.
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, I'm here with JD Rose, aka Devil Ham, with our core team, and the player and actor behind Dabria, the Death Cleric.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when did you start playing Dabria with the team?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of went to the adults of my brain here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say it was 2016, but that almost doesn't feel long enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: for everything that we went through, but that is almost 10 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you came in.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I walked back through it right in my head, it was we started 2015 with the whole group.
[SPEAKER_01]: And back, you go back like a year prior that we're doing some regular D in these stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the couple people were doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you came in, that was about a year after and we had played up through, it's like story-wise,
[SPEAKER_01]: You came in when you came in in the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you, as far back in the show, season four, are no season three is when you got introduced.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that always feels because I've gone back and listened to the podcast a couple times now.
[SPEAKER_00]: That always feels so early for Dabria because the relationships were already so set up for like the main kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I felt like such an ad on just like in personal life and also in the story and so me being in season three was always very jarring like oh wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've been there for a hot minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see that so there that so why did why did you want to join the team.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say it was all bad, but there was a lot of players that I didn't really like my play style didn't drive with.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just very rural oriented, and I was in it for the story, and that's what I heard from your table.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I adamantly wanted to join that and experience D&D like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're glad you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were all, of course, we were all friends, and like you said, friends, we're having this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a therapy session.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of what it started turning into and I was glad that you could join us all.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, which was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: What inspired you to choose Dabri as a character?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she's very unique.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that she is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that.
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of touching back on it being a therapy session.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted somebody who was not a normal character that I play at least not at front because I am usually the the cleric that makes friends with everybody in the person that like goes out and talks and like gets the group together and like really builds the teamwork and the friendship and that is not debris.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the beginning, I think it came from this need to kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: enter seriously because at the time in my life I felt like I wasn't taking myself seriously so why would my friends take myself seriously?
[SPEAKER_00]: And Deborah just became this really excellent outlet for like actual dark broody feelings that I usually pay over with jokes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, from the game side for me when we discussed
[SPEAKER_01]: You wanted to come in and you were like, well, you know, let's do a cleric.
[SPEAKER_01]: We started talking about like different, you know, types of clerics and then, and I I was like, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: What about this one and I mentioned the death cleric and you're like, oh, well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, so on a personal note with you, I mean, you are trained mortician.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was dabberia was before that, like I was still in food service.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was still thinking that that was not something that I could do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do credit dabberia to, like, obviously D&D corpses are a little bit different than like deceit and so that I work with.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that kind of inspired me to push forward with, oh, no, I think I can do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a death
[SPEAKER_01]: that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: In some of the talks I've had with other D&D, DMs or people in the space, they've always kind of like corked up an eye when they're and said, well, she's death cleric.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, you have a protagonist as a death cleric.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh yeah, I think it's possible to be redeemable if you pay attention to story.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: The two that came out of the Dungeon Master's Guide that were these types of characters that were really regulated to just be bad people was the death cleric and then, you know, the fall in Paladin.
[SPEAKER_01]: So with both of those we incorporated in the show, so which was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: So where did the name come from?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know this Mikey because it's so we had this awesome moment at the table after like years after I had created Debra.
[SPEAKER_00]: where you let it show that the name means angel of death.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did that on purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had just forgotten about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was names mean a lot to me and so I really do delve into the names of things when you and I were in character creation, I wanted something that like represented the death cleric of her, but gave her like that softer side and kind of like reflected how she thought of herself in like a
[SPEAKER_00]: very negative way, if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the first thing I thought of was I had this band, this like hex girls level like fan fiction band that I used to draw and write about all the time in middle school called The Angels of Death.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I thought it would be cool to kind of feel that into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do remember when you presented it, I was like, oh, you know, some of the Lauren in my head, I remembered that being one of the names of the angel death.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, How can that get incorporated?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember with your backstory on that same note, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: When we were going through your backstory, we talked about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: what kind of conflicts do you want to explore, you know, these kinds of things and what's your backs we're going to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you presented back to me a heartbreaking story about this, how she had a incident where there was this girl and the girl was, you know, was a victim essentially of her warlike properties and what have you and she always felt bad about
[SPEAKER_01]: with what we explored with Dabri, at least from my standpoint as the DM story teller, what I enjoyed exploring based off of that was that Dabri that child in her memory was actually two things.
[SPEAKER_01]: One, it follows Eddie, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, what Eddie dealt with
[SPEAKER_01]: the Emerald Atoll, which was led by Dabrian and in Carlin or Nightblade.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I wanted to play into that same war-like thing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing that
[SPEAKER_01]: dealing with her self as her lost childhood, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So her childhood, those wrenched away from her and what Abios said, well, how can we play into both of this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's as the story unfolded, that was a lot of fun and cathartic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I really do have to give you props on that one, like again, being a team of friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew I was walking into a therapy session, but I think it wasn't until you had like made that analogy that I realized, like, so much of me is poured into Debra because I was not meant to be a bigger statement that it is, but like, I have betrayed my inner child so many times.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that you kind of need to do that to be able to move past, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: some of the current things that plague you as an adult.
[SPEAKER_00]: But through that story was a really big personalization of like, oh, man, I have really done myself dirty in a lot of ways and kind of using Deborah to bring that back.
[SPEAKER_01]: That absolutely, that leads into my other question.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've answered some of it here, but was there anything about Deborah that you relate with the most?
[SPEAKER_00]: Dabria, I don't think that I started out relating this Dabria is so angry.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have always been so scared of my own anger, because I'm very quick to it internally, but not externally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Externally, I have kind of a need to be in control of my emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why the jokes and the silliness are kind of my main go-to.
[SPEAKER_00]: But God, Deborah is just angry.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just angry at the world and she's angry at herself and she's angry, but it's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the stagnant anger and I think that that's what I learned that I could relate to because I started relating to her anger and getting a little overwhelmed by it and a little scared by it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then through her story, just realizing like you can still be angry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that angry is wholly that that rage is justifiably like something that you can grow with and grow from and she really really helped me.
[SPEAKER_00]: just discover my own anger and the wise behind it and what I could do with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what helped me watching you grow was how you dealt with anger and how you pushed past it and how you grew as a person and to me that showed me ways
[SPEAKER_01]: resonated with me during that time was I recognize mine, my own anger issues and I was like, well, you know, how can I be more cool headed about this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I discovered my joke, which is left handed anger.
[SPEAKER_01]: So whenever I get mad, I'll throw something I have to do with my left hand and it just makes me feel stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they said, I can laugh about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's so derpy.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is how I'm so mad and then it says failed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, so where are there any characters in the debris of felt more connected to than others?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it kind of goes in chapters because I think the debris, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: really wanted to relate to Zorin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Deborah really wanted to be closer to Zorin, but then as soon as she saw his temperament with like dealing with his life, she was like, okay, well, I'm not gonna get what I need for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Still respect there, but like, you're not this angry little ball of revenge that I thought you were.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think it was Benedict.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that, like, surprised me more than anything because Benedict and the Cordelia are two twins of different trees on differently, like different leaves on different trees.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't exist in the same universe just of thinking and the way that they carry themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Debraia really had to confront that and be confronted by that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that
[SPEAKER_00]: her and Benedict really helped each other grow and understand that sometimes you can't use your own motivations to fix or help somebody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then outside of that I think it was Cordelia.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that was the through line that Deborah didn't see the whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Cordelia was always the most
[SPEAKER_00]: fascinating to Deborah in a way that was very untouchable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think as their relationship, uh, changes and grows, and they become those like.
[SPEAKER_00]: those battlemates that can just like share a glance and then do the thing, Deborah really learned to lean on somebody else that wasn't Oona, because obviously, Oona is like the character that she connects with the most by thinking that by the end, they're on their own journeys and her and Oona learn to heal things that they didn't need to heal together.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's, yeah, it's kind of hard to say, like, looking back that, that there was just one character.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that that that makes perfect sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think about it because it's like, it's like when you grow up, you have your.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have your friends that you have in elementary school or preschool or whatever, what have you, and as you go through your different phases of growing up, you move from preschool to elementary school or even half of elementary school to the later half of elementary school or what have your relationships with people change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And some relationships stay there forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Josh Montoya and Josh, it's like he's my best friend, you know, through junior high and high school and all that stuff and then he joined the Navy and I went off and came rock star and all that stuff and Wolve talk like once a decade.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's like no time has passed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just we don't have to keep in touch with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're both on our own journey now
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and what have you and people miss each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's yeah, but at the same time, we both know that we're just different people and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's just yeah, there's some people that like they stitch themselves into your lives and and that stitch doesn't pull.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's Deborah and you know, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like.
[SPEAKER_00]: in whatever cosmic end of spoiler alert that happens that they'll still have exactly that of like, they just are always gonna be there for each other, always a fun call away, but not needing each other day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Agreed, absolutely, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say something fun, okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: So who's your least favorite character in the world?
[SPEAKER_01]: what what character does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you hate the most it can be you personally and it can be from Davies perspective either way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, okay, well, I'll all answer the serious one of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, am I allowed to give spoilers?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like a big spoiler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, let's not do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's there's we know that the guy now.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're holding on.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're holding on to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to
[SPEAKER_01]: Not yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: As of this point, as of season six, as of season six, we just got that four understand as we just got done playing the end of basically this arc and it takes us through 10 seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll have 10 seasons of upstop and all this going to be available up on our patron, you know, come join us.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the different levels have all the fun, the re-orders my had.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, without as at this point, season six, who is, who is your least favorite first.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll all answer from Devria then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Devria is not a fan of Ash, which cracks me up because like that's my roommate and one of my best friends, like Barry is amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But
[SPEAKER_00]: I think from the like, he was the debris I built this little family where like, yeah, stuff comes up some secrets.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the past comes up for all of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's getting over her past because she was not a good person.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this like little man just shows up and has a secret big enough that almost kills all of her friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they have to be in a robot for days.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's not cool with him, they have, they like,
[SPEAKER_00]: they have some side story things that make it like a little bit better.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that he like separated and almost killed her entire family.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, she's she's not going to have to be some like, reprimand's made.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, we'll have to see how things pan out with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big apologies.
[SPEAKER_01]: So see how things go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're there any moments that you remember the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're at the table.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's so many for Jabria.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the first one that really told me that I was like, that I had something good, and it was a while into gameplay, was our first session, Luna and Jabria, we're like, I don't know the concept of a friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is it kind of like a slave that just kind of hangs out with you because they want to?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was how they came into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have an illustration of it by storm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jabra goes charging in because there's a team plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is very new for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's like, all right, let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she just screams teamwork into battle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's like a battle cry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's between that and you letting me do some ridiculous stuff at the table, like when when Deborah's girlfriend to see Skrill friend showed up riding a pale horse like death herself and I was like, I'm a jump off the back of my dragon onto her horse because of the power of
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact, I think I got a Nat 20, yeah, which was the best Nat 20 I've ever rolled.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that that was allowed to happen and then getting to be in a theater at New Jersey web best listening to it, like come, because I didn't listen to it before that moment, like come together in this like beautiful
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like beautiful tender, saying it goodbye after doing this really bad ass thing, something about that is just like the story for me and for Debra is just yeah, it's just very beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: That table erupted when that in that 20 fell over that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was still picture in the table.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the way we had all set up as we had,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because we're doing this epic battle and so those of you out there listeners, you know, again, join Patron because I all have these rules up there where you can use them, but um, I had made a our own kind of battle system where
[SPEAKER_01]: Essentially, everything's scaled down to a quarter of an inch is an inch in normal D and D terms.
[SPEAKER_01]: So one is square will hold 20 people inside that square.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had this big giant ball ball of garnet keep and we had the, you know, everything kind of lined out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's what the castle itself looks like or the keep and the giant bridge going across it and all these little pieces of paper.
[SPEAKER_01]: and everybody's like having these big epic moments with little tiny scrap pieces of paper because of what like drawn on with like here's stop me or finally show it's presented it's like yeah it's jumping in and
[SPEAKER_01]: all this and yeah you were and you had that little dragon that we we put up on a little popsicle stick on a gemstone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know when those little river rock stones, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah a little marked like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it looked like it was flying.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a paper.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, fun with cardboard.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, yeah, you said I'm going to jump off this dragon.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's see how this goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, because you, you would describe the scene and you're such an immersive DM with how you describe everything that we all get caught up in it, but as soon as you describe the horse and this like woman writing it, I was like, is that, is that who I think it is?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause she's about to get real crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm about to, I'm about to do, sorry, I swear.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got about to do something really stupid because I haven't seen her and it, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: that was such a transformative moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so caught.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was, it was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it showed the heart behind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dabri, because Dabri had been this cold, cruel, I mean, she's the, you know, mistress of pain, all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you really leaned into this ex-dark army officer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I mean, like, she's her Achilles heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's the one person who said, like, we're leaving the army, we're leaving Dequeon and Deborah said, okay, let me leave everything that I've ever known because everything that I want to know is you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like this, I mean, that triggers her to have that beautiful moment was Sophie after the battle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think that that is such a, such a turning point for Debra because she,
[SPEAKER_00]: she realizes that like loving this woman was so much more important than shutting her out and she would have never had that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she gets to start actually feeling for these people that she's starting to care about and it's it's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then her and Sophie's relationship from there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so much deeper and yeah, I'm getting all sentimental.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, you know, and again, we're only halfway through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: If, if we even think of halfway because we got other things, in fact, in fact, you have also been working on a side story called the Shattered.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: All those that characters from season four.
[SPEAKER_01]: that disappeared into the another spring trace of season four episode six, so if I can go back and check that He feels like kind of a one shot episode it falls into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all from their perspective and then they disappear That kind of a horror field to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of fun to just kind of come up with that side piece Well, I don't want to I don't want to give away anything on that all right with let's start a conversation about it So any hint says to what we might uncover in that story you go
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to uncover it from now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yes, but we're going to uncover kind of what it means to give into that little voice that like that anti-Jimmy cricket who just tells you not like bad things about yourself but the things that you could do if you just let yourself feel that bad emotion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you just let that run rampant, what happens?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you take all these heroes, you put them in a situation that they are completely out of their deaths.
[SPEAKER_00]: And typically, you want to watch them become heroes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not what the shattered is.
[SPEAKER_00]: The shattered is kind of facing the fact that you're not a hero, but that doesn't mean that you can't make the right choices.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: for your work on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have the privilege of seeing the manuscript and the outline and you know where you want to take the story and we use that story to develop into things that are happening parallel in the world and all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's nice weave.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to mention that story itself, we'll get into more of this in another episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that story itself,
[SPEAKER_01]: We were playing a basically a Ravenloft game as a side thing, Brian took over as being DM.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually got to play a character.
[SPEAKER_00]: New and different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to be a gloom stalker named Mirac and he's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love Mirac.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, very I'm I'm very excited to see how that how that goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk production a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any fond memories of recording or stories that you can remember or writing anything that's like to bring up?
[SPEAKER_01]: What it's like to be part of the good ham team?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, geez.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like being part of the good ham team is sitting in a restaurant with one of your best friends coming up with a whole new concept after talking about how tired you are from a
[SPEAKER_00]: and how you still have so much work on all these various projects you're in the middle of shows season.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're both sitting there and joining my Gerita and some good Mexican food and going.
[SPEAKER_00]: actually what if we did this and getting so psyched about it like that's that's just good ham.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just all of us kind of motivating and pushing with each other and understanding each other is like little idiosyncrasies and when we can do something we can't do something a great testament to that is is the all-day recording sessions that we do where
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we could do it in this way where you have time slots for us and you do, you organize it very well, where you're like, oh, yeah, from 10 to 10 30, I'm going to have this person in this person recording and then after that, it's going to be this person, this person, but we all show up at 10 30 and then we all just hang out and we all just like eat food or sit there on our phones and just be in each other's presence.
[SPEAKER_00]: which really makes for for these fun spontaneous recording things where you burst out on like a a cloud of creative energy and say we're going to go down to the park and we're all going to scream in this tunnel and make it like an auditorium.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's one of my favorite memories
[SPEAKER_00]: one of those arena recordings and just washing all of my best friends who in holler and make ridiculous folie noises.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm getting to hear it in the podcast later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there are events so many fun moments recording and they're always just because we we hang out and we we mess around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think my biggest inspiration has always been you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are when we get together and we do something.
[SPEAKER_01]: what have you just kind of comes out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate the patience of coming early and staying there throughout and what have you, but you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the times where I'll come up and grab everybody saying, hey, you know, we got, I gotta see, I need three more people yelling in the office, so I need everybody in there, what have you, so it's been a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how would you say
[SPEAKER_01]: personally grew since you started on this journey with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did Debraia teach you anything about yourself?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh God, uh, I mean, 10 years, especially going from my early 20s to now 30, that's, that's a catalyst for a lot of change anyways, but, um, I mean, I talked a little bit about
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a person who grew up with so much fire and I've internalized so much of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just anger, just the world and how it is sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I learned how to temper myself and how to be more than a product of my situation and how to react accordingly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I was always the best at my reactions,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that learning from Dabri and learning from some of the other players and characters at the table just how to stop and observe and not to bring into another character moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a moment and it was in 2020.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was in the throes of everything and learning I was an extravert in 2020.
[SPEAKER_00]: that sucked.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we were playing, and there was a moment where Dabria had a chance to shoot a board and chose not to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's such a small moment in the game, like as as far as like the grand scheme of everything that's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, that was such a huge moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember hanging up and realizing like that wasn't just Dabria choosing to stop and not go with her
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of see what else there is and see what else that fire can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I really learned how to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that between that and starting my career, which really does require a level ahead, I've learned kind of how to use my own fire and where that energy needs to go, where it can go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think watching you become a
[SPEAKER_01]: and see you grow into the the person the wonderful person you are now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So well, thanks, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's been a privilege.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see you in a big part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys helped me grow.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are you planning to do next?
[SPEAKER_01]: Got anything on the horizon?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm in the throes of show season for Adest from Academy of Sorcery right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'd have a rehearsal tonight, in fact.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is coming to Mile HighCon, October 31st, Halloween night.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we will be starting up the Shenanigans with a fun new silly story.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to be that weekend's long, large activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got the shattered coming out for,
[SPEAKER_00]: the deviled hand side of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do have a burlesque business called Crem Burlesque.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's more for the for the adult side of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, just just a lot of good creative stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very, very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So where can our listeners find more of your work or follow you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can follow me on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be Devil's Cake for any Cremberless related things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be Cremberless for Avastrom.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow Avastrom Academy of Sorcery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those two worlds are kept very separate.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's not going to be a lot of crossover.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can find me on any good ham things anywhere, help it out with whatever I can, whatever I can.
[SPEAKER_00]: And soon to be a book release, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, until next time everybody, stay safe and remember the oath.