[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to another episode of Shooting the Shirt with Literary Agents, Carly Waters, and CC Lyra.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where we dissect publishing gossip, discuss book industry trends, and the overall state of the book business.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd ever wanted to grab a coffee with two literary agents, grab your mug, and pull up a chair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi everybody, we're in the same place!
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are live from New York City.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are doing our best.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're recordings, you know, from a hotel room here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can't make any promises about noise or internet quality or sound quality, but we didn't want to miss a beat because We are live from New York meaning.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have had editor meetings and client meetings and we went to the people of publishing conference.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've lost to talk about, but kick us out, C.C.
[SPEAKER_02]: Live from New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the shit no one tells you about writing, shooting the shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: She did the shit about shooting the shit live in New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, everyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Apologies and advanced to our editor who will have a lot of editing to do in this episode, because I'm a class and we are in a very precarious situation over here, in terms of balancing our laptops, our microphones.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are doing our best, everyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for bearing with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, let's talk about our newsletter, because I have heard there's some really exciting things in our newsletter.
[SPEAKER_02]: You might remember that I think in one of the very first shoot this shit episodes, we discussed the author questionnaire.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of you were like, yes, please, we want to see an example of an author questionnaire.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, our paid subscribers will be able to see that in our upcoming newsletter.
[SPEAKER_02]: So make sure to subscribe, please support us.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do the newsletter with a lot of love.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it can exist without your support.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're gonna run through some things that are in the news letter tomorrow, so we're linking this all together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tomorrow we have five Jedi mind tricks for surviving and thriving and publishing by Sarah Akerman, bestselling author of nine novels.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sarah had hundreds of rejections on four novels before she finally got her agent, so you're definitely going on to read this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hundreds of rejections, like I love these stories.
[SPEAKER_02]: These are the best published stories.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jane Hamilton, who's had two books chosen for Oprah's book club, coolest thing ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Talks about how she sent out her query letter to 20 agents and how everyone rejected her except the last person on her list.
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes one guess.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we keep saying that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We keep saying yeah, and it's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then we also have Nick Medina, author of the Whistler shares, five practices that he it hears to, the tried and true habit that have helped him reaches writing goals.
[SPEAKER_02]: We also have written critiques from last week's books with hooks in which Leslie joined us on the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a lot to unpack, much of which we didn't get to during the episode because again limited time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you'll really want to see our written notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for those of you who are visual learners, like I can't stress it up how awesome those visual notes are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Make sure we're a document with like line notes and actual practical actionable tips.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really useful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a Tuesday newsletter, which means it's a paid subscriber issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you are not a paid subscriber, you go to substack.com slash at the shit about writing and subscribe.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how you get access to the Tuesday newsletters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know, for anyone wondering, why do we have a paid newsletter to begin with?
[SPEAKER_02]: This podcast is not cheap.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let me tell you, in the beginning, we were bleeding a money.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do being bleeding.
[SPEAKER_02]: I still remember we all had to make this really
[SPEAKER_02]: significant financial investment for something we wanted to do early on and of course it was so worth it and we're so happy to do it but like there's a lot of costs with editing this podcast keeping this podcast running this podcast I'm saying podcast but like we've obviously expanded beyond that right like newsletter and everything that goes into it so part of how you can support us is the paid newsletter you know that not everyone can do that and there are also ways for you to get a free sample of that paid newsletter on sub-stack so you can check it out to see if you
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we want to keep up the highest quality you guys, so it's super important to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that is everything that's going to be in the newsletter tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we are going to pivot to everything happening in New York.
[SPEAKER_01]: But first, a word from our sponsors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now everything that happened in New York, well, let's talk about all of New York City.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but seriously, so we went to the people of publishing conference, organized by the Association of American Literary Agents, PupCon for those in the know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so much fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was also the longest day ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the longest day ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: It started at 8 in the morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it went on till the evening.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had so many cool things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So first up, what do we do first up?
[SPEAKER_01]: First up, we got there, checked in, kind of mingled with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: I met a guy who had just graduated and was looking for his first publishing job.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I sat with him at a table.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to talk to him about different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he could get into the biz.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was how I started my day.
[SPEAKER_01]: there was the two Johns and David from Simon and Chuster, Peshette and McMillan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those were the CEOs, and it was actually a much more uplifting conversation than I thought it was going to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I thought so too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So John Carpe, who is the CEO of Simon and Chuster, is stepping down soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have to say, like, I keep hearing from everyone that John was not born to be a CEO in his opinion, because he loves editing books,
[SPEAKER_02]: The man killed it on stage.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think he was born to be a CEO.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like the rest part was when they were like, you know, I was gonna split the best part of your job.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, guess what's coming out next Tuesday.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then all the books, like a polygain in the books.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was born to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's just so good on stage to care his bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I love, and the other John just made such a heartfelt plea for just like literacy and how important it is in the book banning movement and how it's hurting industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they all were such, I don't know, it surprised me I guess how upbeat it was because I've, there's been years in publishing where things were a little bit down.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, so anyway, I thought it was really upbeat CEO panel, which was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say, though, we have to talk about, I would not be being fully honest if I didn't mention this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know that's statistic that there are more CEOs named John and there are women's CEOs in the world?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like yesterday was a good example of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The picture I took was just like white dude, white dude, white dude, and white dude, all four of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a wonderful introduction from Regina and Lynn, both from the ALA, but the rest of it was just, you know, some of my deals are all men, is what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they did a really great job.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this hell also has to be said.
[SPEAKER_02]: What have been nice to have at least one woman CEO?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe someday, maybe next year, we'll be recording this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like, yeah, we do have a woman's CEO now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as he said, John stepping down.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we don't know, there's a lot of buzz, lots of conversation this week about who it will be taking the CEO job.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people said that nobody actually wants the CEO job.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not just that, it's not just that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're not sure about who actually wants this job or who's been offered this job.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was some names floating around Obviously we're not gonna perpetuate any gossip on this show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, but like don't say the name But like did you hear that there's that one person who really doesn't want it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, everyone everyone's like she was she and this is she She would be great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, she doesn't want it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I also think I actually do think she'd be great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, I'm moving on from that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The next thing we did was a creator economy, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a creator economy panel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: We both were looking at our notes now because we both didn't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what do you think that you learned in that one?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, what did I learn?
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I was surprised by the fact that we even had the creator economy panel, like positively surprised.
[SPEAKER_02]: because to me, that was excellent.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was really awesome to talk about sub-stack Kickstarter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Adio, I really enjoyed that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that anything is particularly surprising to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: One good myth-busting thing that I really liked, because there was so many shifts in the crater economy over, you know, however many years have been doing this, but one of the things was a good reminder is when I started and publishing people were told to kind of go dark before the book came out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'd like build a peer platform, maybe you were on TV, and then it would
[SPEAKER_01]: before your book launch that when your book launch happens it's like oh it's fresh it's popping we're not like tired of this person in the media now we are telling all of our authors and I think that makes sense when you guys think about it but we're not telling anybody to go dark before the book launch it's like steady chug chug like lots of socials lots of posts you're not supposed to go dark it's supposed to continue the momentum because you don't want the algorithm to kind of drop off and then have like chug back up on the algorithm so just to remind you we don't go dark anymore before pub it's just like
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, new world.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really liked also the fact that people on the panel reminded us that it's it's good to use sub-stack as a way to kind of like test the waters of a proposal.
[SPEAKER_02]: So as agents when we sell nonfiction, we often build proposal and then we sell that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're like, hmm, I don't know, like, I'm maybe your creator and you're like, I don't know which book I want to do first or this book in that book.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can maybe play around with your social media with your sub stack and see what kind of engagement you get, like what your audience is responding to more.
[SPEAKER_02]: there isn't a guarantee that whatever your audience is responding to will be what editors want but I didn't think the idea of like experimenting could be interesting especially for softmore authors whose first books did not take off so that was a question that was asked like how do you measure how hot an author is like whether you want to acquire something and as we've discussed on this podcast many many times for nonfiction you really have to be an expert and if you're writing your second book in your first book did not take off
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you make a key to publishers that the second book will be different?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if you start, for example, a sub-stack, you didn't have a sub-stack before, that could be like a new thing, because editors could go in to the meeting and be like, well, okay, the first book didn't break out, but they now have a sub-stack and their sub-stack is doing really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or it's like a series, you'll like iterate on a series.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go, this series picking up, let's build that into a book, or the series that you thought was taking up on your substak as you serialize what you're working on, doesn't really take off, let's pivot and do another series on substak.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're not lighting a book proposal on something where it's not really hitting with your audience, which I thought that was good advice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then we went to the, oh, I wanted to say one more thing about in person events because I think there was a big push they said to get back to in person events.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously this was a creator economy conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is about people who have platforms obviously large followings and getting people to events is obviously super important.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you can get
[SPEAKER_01]: people to events, people want to be together.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just a great reminder, if it does work for you, you have a large enough following to get people out and about, there's a lot of conversation about how to work with partnerships and different ways to do that because we had people from Kickstarter, talk about how they help people with book launches, the Substack people were there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, lots to think about as we kind of move into this post-COVID era of people
[SPEAKER_01]: If you give people a reason to come out and get together, they'll do it as demonstrated by popcorn.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like full.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there were a lot of people there.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to wait 20 minutes for lunch and I happily waited because I, you know, I need my food.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it was busy.
[SPEAKER_02]: We all got to sit around and have lunch together.
[SPEAKER_02]: After the that panel, we went to around table.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were actually at the same round table.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did not agree on this or anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just happened to be like, we both choose the same round table.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which was fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was all about book club fiction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did anything stand out together?
[SPEAKER_01]: We all agreed it's still a very popular category.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about historical.
[SPEAKER_01]: What could work within historical fiction?
[SPEAKER_01]: In book club, we talked about all the books that we kind of agreed were book club.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the ones that kind of popped off this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was building a list on my other page of all the books that I have to go read and buy now.
[SPEAKER_02]: What about you?
[SPEAKER_02]: So the first thing we talked about was like, how do you measure success apart from the list?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right live one list, everyone wants to belong to, let's be honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you mentioned, well, the obvious next thing is if we're on a book club roundtable, we should be talking about the celebrity book clubs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's obviously another metric of success in the book club.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I mean we talked about also like steady sales.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is something that's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of authors they dream about
[SPEAKER_02]: So first week, New York Times bestseller list, like that's the dream.
[SPEAKER_02]: So awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: So happy for you if that happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is very, very rare.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember what the statistic is, but like point zero zero, whatever, however many zero, one percent of books actually do that, but actually a really awesome metric of success for publishers and
[SPEAKER_02]: for savvy authors too, or steady sales, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: That book that never made the list, there were a few books that were mentioned, titles that surprised me that they didn't make the list because they're so big, but they didn't make the list.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, they sell a good amount of copies every single week, every single week, and they've been doing it since they came out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so awesome for publishers and it's awesome for authors because it means that when at us as agents like we're pitching your next book publishers are going to be like, yes, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to look at your track record.
[SPEAKER_02]: See the steady sales and they're going to be so excited to work with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: and one of the things we talked about is if what makes a book club book obviously so we did talk about the kind of warmth and heart that's required for a book club book as you guys know i always say a book club book needs to be a book that people want to talk about because a lot of people think they have a book club book and it's like do they really but some warmth and some heart were some other things we talked about and then so Sarah canton was leading the round table discussion
[SPEAKER_02]: along with Michelle from Chalice and Sarah asked a really cool question which was how do you know like as agents as editors do at this round table but like how do you know when something's good you know we're considering a submission whether at the
[SPEAKER_02]: acquiring editor level or agent level.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she asked, is it good?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it instinct?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it like something that you know how to reverse engineer and pinpoint?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was much more eloquent than I'm being right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she posited that for her.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like informed to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that the stuff that the term she used?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I loved that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is an informed gut.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's gut because to a degree it's kind of like, I'm tasting a dish, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if I'm tasting a dish and it's in my mouth and I'm showing it, I know whether it tastes good or not.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have developed the palate.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to continue with the food method.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't often know why it tastes so good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm not the chef.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not the person who knows that it was actually honey, like that dash of honey that made it so special.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I know that it tastes good.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the same time though, because we can taste many things.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can often spot things like the right amount of sea salt.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the right amount of sea salt is perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: So me and my food analogies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we did have lunch at some point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, this was actually when we had lunch.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had a lunch break.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went for a walk with an editor who hadn't seen her really long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was right by Central Park, which was where the event was.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went on a walk with Kat Brzeowski, who works on the kidlet side.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't do kidlet anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I used to love hanging out with Kat and going to meetings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Together in her and I just had like a really gossipy walk through central park love gossipy so much fun So anyway, she was she was a who we'd had a little gossip session and caught up and then we went to financial markets Yes, which is basically like CFO's talking about money
[SPEAKER_01]: fun right in accounting and you know one of the things actually really loved about that talk and I was actually really excited for it one of the things I loved about the talk was how they said if it like these people who work in the kind of accounting and finance side of creative industries love to be a creative and even though they like are a numbers person they're an excellent
[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, they love modeling out different outcomes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They really are creatives at heart if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they just said, basically, they can go work in any industry they want.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can go work in finance and I banking whatever they want.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they work in creative industries because they care so deeply about content and media and creation and creator.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually really who loved that like human element of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't quite expecting that much heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what did you think?
[SPEAKER_02]: I loved it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciated that angle too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also thought it was interesting when
[SPEAKER_02]: So someone asked them, like, so what goes into that decision?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's the decision to pay a certain amount of money to approve a certain tier of advance.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I forget what it was, but one of the panelists said, you know, it's a mix of editor and enthusiasm and the editor's track record matters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if it's the editor who's often right, we're thinking of a few.
[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, you know, they carry a little bit more slay, but also like comp titles, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: the editor is asking for.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if something is low cost, they might be more willing to take certain risks.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a qualitative reasoning to it, but something that was really, really stressed.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the penguinsie, if all right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure she was the penguinsie, if all, but something that was she really stressed, which I really liked was every book is a unique product.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to a degree,
[SPEAKER_02]: like you can't know no right the financial projections that go into a book are not the same as the financial projections that go into other more objective industries because each book is so unique and yeah you have the comps you can say this will be the next x the next y I don't know that like nobody actually knows that so I thought it was interesting that she mentioned that I thought it was really interesting that she mentioned how you can't be too wedded to the data because each book is its only unique correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I think again, didn't learn a ton in terms of like how it is by books.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know how they buy books, but it really just reiterated the basics, which is they are going to determine the price point based on backless sales, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: How that how did the previous track do for that author?
[SPEAKER_01]: And cops.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they don't have a backless track, it'll bought.
[SPEAKER_01]: depends on those comps.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how often do we talk about comps every episode of the show?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there's an episode that was by the way, but you guys want to make money, may he's fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is why.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we learned in the money chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's move on to the auction conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a juicy one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: just was the last panel I believe of the day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So everybody was kind of in this huge haul.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of agents obviously because it was, you know, put on by the Association of American Literary Agents.
[SPEAKER_01]: So tons of agents in the room on the stage was, I want to say, four to five editors and two eight three agents.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, so they started kind of at the beginning of like you know their thought process in terms of when the submissions come in and the buying process, but really the conversation was
[SPEAKER_01]: options and basically how they run them, how do they know what they're going to want to get in on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They talked about house bids, which means, you know, at certain publishers, there's rules about for example, a Simon and Schuster, not everybody can kind of go in and bid against each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of decide who's the most excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that person runs with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we talked about house bids, we talked about the format of auctions, like round robins versus best bids and run offs and how everybody kind of does that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it was really interesting to see how much information editors wanted versus how little the agents wanted to give and the power, the power positioning of everything, it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so much fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forget who said this, but something that I thought was really like it felt very,
[SPEAKER_02]: Incidentally, familiar to me when this person said this was that auctions.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the ways that agents can demonstrate the value that they add to a client's life, you know what they're bringing to the table.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not that that's the only way to demonstrate that, but it is a very clear, very explicit way to demonstrate that value.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we got all these editors to be interested in your project.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it isn't like curating a submission's list, you need to know someone's taste to think about how hard that is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like in your own
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, other readers that you might know, friends that you might have, like, paying the right book for them, based on, you know, their personal interests, based on where they've lived, often editors will tell us, like, oh, I spent a summer in Italy, so I would love a book, suddenly.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, my husband from Ireland, I'm from Arizona, I want books from these two places, you know, I love books about food, because my grandmother used to cook all these awesome recipes.
[SPEAKER_02]: course, first and foremost, it's because your story is amazing, but it's also because the Egypt knew exactly who to go to.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's high demand.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked a lot about how do you determine what the market value is for it?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is one editor want to pay?
[SPEAKER_01]: They talked about the example of like maybe somebody sees this as like $100,000 book, but they know somebody else is going to see this as a $500,000 book.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, do they want to go through all of this process just to kind of not be in the running in that sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they talked about how much work options are.
[SPEAKER_01]: They heard ton of work because the editors have to pull together like all of this data, talk to their bosses, get all the reads, do the call with the author in the agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: pull together all of this data, put the offer together, and go through all of the rounds, and it's emotionally and physically taxing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And really it's really it's, I really got the sense that like editors really wanted clear rules and a sense of finality.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what are the rules of this auction?
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to be really clear, and I want like they don't want it to potentially be able to go on forever and ever and ever, they want to know what it's gonna end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, smiling because there's every book is different, every auction is different.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it will end.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not the never-ending story, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But like perhaps we don't have that clear sense of finality from the get-go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps that will be revealed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a plot twist.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there is it's a plot twist.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's going to stick if I say that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plot twist.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's going to stick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's going to stick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we won't do that then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so that was kind of the the rundown.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have any like greater takeaways from the uh the day?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I thought it was really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was really really interesting Just felt grateful to be in the room.
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt with people who also love books I also want to work with stories and storytellers and it was awesome
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then CC9 have also been very busy doing meetings at all the publishing houses, seeing clients.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a TV film meeting, which was great this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're very busy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: For the meetings, this is my favorite part.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have the like first time meetings, where it's like the best, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're getting to know someone.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you also have like we're friends at this point meeting, and then you get to gossip more.
[SPEAKER_02]: gossip is fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always nice gossip.
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys don't have to worry, but it's still a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we have a, the microphone is currently sitting on the stack of books that CCS has been given this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's many, it's many, it's many.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I, it's the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I have never gotten over the fact that I can get books before they come out.
[SPEAKER_02]: People told me when I first started you didn't take it so great, but you'll, you'll get over it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, you don't get over it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I can meet a book before the book is published.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know how cool that is?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you leave room in your suitcase for all this?
[SPEAKER_02]: I check luggage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I carry on people.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people judge us.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not like, when we went to London and I remember texting hardly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so what are you doing in terms of Logan?
[SPEAKER_02]: She was like, I'm checking a large debate and I was like, thank God.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we decided it for a luggage, got lost, which is go shopping.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, yes, I do have a very large suitcase and I have a carry on that's empty.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I am all good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just look at this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Try to think if there's any other high points, I need to look through the rest of my notes here in terms of,
[SPEAKER_01]: what we learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: CC, do you pitch books in your meeting or do you do more just like here's what's coming down the pipeline?
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it depends on the book and the editor, but are you like a pitch in person person?
[SPEAKER_01]: I love pitching in person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's good at it, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen you in person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I love pitching in person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got my start as an agent at the London book fair, and I did not have books to pay it because I, hello, this is what agent thing is like, I had nothing to pay it, but I remember talking about books and just being like, this is the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: You sit down and you talk about books, yes, sign me up, so in love it, I always try to pitch something,
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if it's something that won't be ready for a while, I have a historical novel that probably won't be ready until 2026.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's okay because something I always tell editors is I work with my clients very closely editorialy and I'm not as ready as ready and I don't rush them and every editor tells me, I appreciate that agenting style.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes they mention that there are agents who pitch the multiple books a month and they don't understand how anyone could handle that many books, which by the way, if you can, good for you, not judgment.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm a ticket slow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What books were recommended to you and are you going to go home with a stack?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was making a list of books that we're talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: This quick silver series.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you read this quick?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's me one legend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of people talk about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a second book coming out in this series.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a, I want to, don't want to speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a, a shet series.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a quick silver is the first book and I think there's a second one, Brimstone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might be misspeaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those were on my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: The correspondent.
[SPEAKER_01]: People were talking about the correspondent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't read that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Frozen River, I'm very popular.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure tons of you guys have heard about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Broken Country, all fours, a school, was there anything else that you heard people?
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, pretty much the same one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really fun thing happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a meeting today with an editor who is currently at Herber Collins, but before was at Penguin, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand the house.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was talking to me about her tastes as my first meeting with her, so I didn't know her tastes super well beyond like my research.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, first meetings, it's all like, hey, this is me, this is my taste and she mentioned there was a book she read and went to back for back when she was working at Valentine and she's like, I don't know if you've heard of it, the Bandit Queen's and I'm like, stop stop right now stop you don't understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: People think I wrapped that book and I did it because of how often I talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I shouldn't care this much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do though.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's kind of like the high notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you guys know, we do editor meetings where they talk about what they want to buy, what they just lost, what they're excited about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we didn't talk about the mixer.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to on Tuesday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, we went to a agent editor mixer.
[SPEAKER_01]: See there's so much going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: um, which are former Colleen Claire Harris put together, which was great, right turn out, um, like, everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was at a pub right by the New York Public Library, right of Brian Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was walking by the library and there was a fashion show going on because it was New York Fashion Week.
[SPEAKER_01]: All these people were like out with her phone taking pictures.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't know what that is, and I have a book party to go to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do love fashion, but I was like, I can't stay in around and just put my phone up in the air and see who's going to show up for this fashion show.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're very fashionable.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are probably like sitting in.
[SPEAKER_02]: oh yes you're it's true she's passionate way guys you're very kind but the way do we learn other I don't know yeah I had a bunch of people tell me because of the move right because I'm gonna do agency now everyone's like oh wait wait you yeah what's what's the girl what's yeah like tell me about it it hasn't been it's been a moment how hasn't the time of this recording
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I met with a lot of editors and it was actually really fun because there were editors who were there and it was so full that I didn't get to chat, but then I had meetings with them and they were like, oh, were you with the mixer, too?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was a super popular mixer, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of editors, more editors and agents, I felt oh, interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then at the conference, more agents.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was a nice balance, you know, a lot of, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I feel like it was such a good homecoming this week of seeing so many agent colleagues, editor colleagues.
[SPEAKER_01]: So many people are just like out and about in a way that they hadn't really been in a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have had a great week.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is Thursday evening when we're recording this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still have two meetings tomorrow having breakfast with my client, Jane Healey, who wrote the woman of our LinkedIn Hall, which you guys know with my billboard book.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jane and I are gonna have breakfast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I am having a matcha date and match a meeting with an editor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I fly home tomorrow afternoon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to go through Montreal, 3330.
[SPEAKER_01]: At a millennium.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wouldn't have to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to look already?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can we see an afternoon?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in the lounge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lounge date.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks for hanging on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope this recording went okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you guys know, we are out of our element, but we wanted to be live from New York.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were live from New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And apologies to our editor.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm poor editor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's for sure going to slack us being like, you guys did this wrong with that wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright guys, take care.
[SPEAKER_00]: CC Lira is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to query CC, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wshermin.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: Carly Waters is a literary agent at PS Literary Agency, but a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies or position of PS Literary Agency.