WEBVTT 00:18.606 --> 00:22.469 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Imaginal Inspirations podcast with me, David Lorimer. 00:23.190 --> 00:28.414 [SPEAKER_00]: When I talk to my guests about experiences, people and books that have shaped their lives and work. 00:29.394 --> 00:36.920 [SPEAKER_00]: Imaginal sells play a key role in the metamorphosis of the caterpillar into a butterfly, which is also the Greek symbol for the soul. 00:37.801 --> 00:45.967 [SPEAKER_00]: These cells are dormant in the caterpillar, but at a critical point of development, they create the new form and structure which becomes the butterfly. 00:54.054 --> 01:00.659 [SPEAKER_00]: My guest today is Susan Plunkett, who is a writer and Jungian analyst in private practice in New York City. 01:02.080 --> 01:10.687 [SPEAKER_00]: She received her doctorate from the New School of Social Research in 1989, and she works with dreams as a form of transcendent consciousness. 01:11.857 --> 01:18.305 [SPEAKER_00]: From 2006 to 2009, she served as a member of the Board of Trustees of the Young Foundation. 01:19.206 --> 01:26.234 [SPEAKER_00]: She is currently on the Advisory Board of Quadrant, the Journal of the CG Young Foundation for Analytical Psychology. 01:27.075 --> 01:28.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Her office is in Greenwich Village. 01:29.588 --> 01:34.171 [SPEAKER_00]: And our most recent work is a union understanding of transcendent experiences. 01:34.832 --> 01:37.373 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, website SusanPlunket.com. 01:38.294 --> 01:39.094 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome Susan. 01:39.635 --> 01:40.575 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, David. 01:40.595 --> 01:42.316 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice to see you again. 01:42.577 --> 01:50.402 [SPEAKER_00]: And you, let's go straight into the first question, which is a shaping moment involved in your choice of work. 01:51.612 --> 01:54.693 [SPEAKER_02]: That was the toughest question when I read your questions. 01:55.253 --> 01:57.634 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, what's their shaping moment? 01:58.274 --> 02:17.360 [SPEAKER_02]: I was living in Berkeley, California, and I wanted to get out of a relationship, and I picked up the telephone in my living room in Berkeley, and I called the New School for Social Research, because my undergraduate degree was in literature, 02:18.222 --> 02:32.483 [SPEAKER_02]: and to go to get a PhD in psychology almost everybody requires an undergraduate degree in psychology, which I didn't have, but not the new school, it's the German system where the gate narrows. 02:33.997 --> 02:36.259 [SPEAKER_02]: So it must have been an inspiration. 02:36.679 --> 02:37.740 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'll say. 02:38.581 --> 02:41.103 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just inspired. 02:41.503 --> 02:42.964 [SPEAKER_02]: It was snail mail time. 02:43.124 --> 02:48.768 [SPEAKER_02]: So I called them on the landline and asked them to mail me an application. 02:49.569 --> 02:50.870 [SPEAKER_02]: It came in a few days. 02:51.010 --> 02:52.511 [SPEAKER_02]: I filled it out, mailed it back. 02:52.571 --> 02:54.393 [SPEAKER_02]: They mailed me back in acceptance. 02:55.073 --> 02:55.514 [SPEAKER_02]: This was 1979. 02:55.554 --> 02:55.994 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 02:56.054 --> 02:58.736 [SPEAKER_02]: Then I came to New York and I 03:02.367 --> 03:10.572 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the other part was I have loved young since high school, and what was the first thing red of young? 03:10.712 --> 03:31.264 [SPEAKER_02]: I the first thing I ever read of youngs in high school was memories, dreams, and reflections, because it's so accessible, and I thought this man is a genius and he's talking right into my head, and he had only died like five or six years before I read it. 03:32.065 --> 03:50.780 [SPEAKER_02]: because he died in 61, and I think I was reading it in 65, or 66, and I felt like I was in a conversation with him, where I was listening to him, and every time I read anything of his, I feel like he's talking right into my head. 03:58.578 --> 04:25.768 [SPEAKER_00]: another beautiful book another beautiful book and I happen to have a mentor who had young complete works and he kindly gave him to me oh wow they're sitting right there yes you see those black ones you see those yes that mine's a slightly division and so that's very interesting so that got you launched on your sort of you yeah that got me studying psychology and then I had to study a lot of 04:26.708 --> 04:29.530 [SPEAKER_02]: other stuff in order to finally get back to young. 04:30.391 --> 04:36.676 [SPEAKER_00]: And did you have a title for your thesis or was it a kind of doctorate which is more like a course? 04:36.916 --> 04:39.798 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a thesis on identity formation. 04:40.239 --> 04:40.539 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 04:41.400 --> 04:54.570 [SPEAKER_02]: And I did all my research for it for three years at New York Presbyterian Hospital with teenagers because they're going through intense identity formation and the beginnings of 04:56.568 --> 05:04.815 [SPEAKER_00]: That's very true, and I find that when I was working with Adolescence, I have a pilot project called Inspire, Aspire, or Sparring Purpose. 05:05.536 --> 05:09.959 [SPEAKER_00]: And they need to do two things, one is to stand out and the other is to fit in. 05:09.979 --> 05:15.304 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the kind of balance that one has to strike in life. 05:15.384 --> 05:17.325 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just a time and life. 05:17.526 --> 05:21.629 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not just true about Adolescence, it's true at any time. 05:23.010 --> 05:23.891 [SPEAKER_02]: At any time. 05:24.689 --> 05:32.974 [SPEAKER_02]: because we're afraid, you know, we're afraid to be completely ourselves that will be judged, and yet we want to be ourselves. 05:33.854 --> 05:34.895 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly. 05:35.395 --> 05:39.118 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you have an influential mental teacher during this period? 05:39.958 --> 05:43.540 [SPEAKER_02]: Two, two influential teachers. 05:44.781 --> 05:51.445 [SPEAKER_02]: Neither incarnate at the time that they were most influencing me, young as we've just said, and 05:53.845 --> 06:11.918 [SPEAKER_02]: a kind of spirit guide who's been with me for 40 years, and all the wisest things came from these two beings, from young, from reading young, and from monkah, who I constantly talked to and have been talking to for 40 years. 06:13.139 --> 06:17.942 [SPEAKER_02]: Like he's kind of like my Philly Mon, young had Philly Mon, I have monkah. 06:18.614 --> 06:24.719 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the kind of advice and guidance they give is all to do with your life and it's unfolding, is it? 06:25.980 --> 06:42.392 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, commenting, Monka was basically always commenting on the necessity to live both your divine life and your human life and to be aware that your human life could be your 06:48.753 --> 06:52.796 [SPEAKER_02]: Let go of being right, you're right, you're right, and you have no state. 06:53.416 --> 06:54.697 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't need to be right. 06:55.198 --> 06:57.479 [SPEAKER_02]: That's just ego that wants to be right. 06:58.300 --> 07:05.585 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, every day, even when I'm not, I talk to him every morning, but when I'm not talking to him, I'm always hearing things he said. 07:06.526 --> 07:14.792 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is, do you, do you, do you regard that, this is a deeper aspect of yourself or another entity, or a mixture of both? 07:15.547 --> 07:29.575 [SPEAKER_02]: That is a thing that I can't settle on, whether he is an aspect of my greater self, but I think he's a separate entity, although we are all part of the one mind. 07:30.215 --> 07:39.120 [SPEAKER_02]: So in that sense, but no, he's, but once I said to him, I was having a panic about something in my 40s, 30 years ago, 07:41.199 --> 07:45.042 [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, I'm right here, look into my eyes, I said, where are you? 07:45.102 --> 07:45.683 [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you? 07:45.743 --> 07:49.006 [SPEAKER_02]: He said, I'm as close as your breath. 07:49.206 --> 07:50.267 [SPEAKER_02]: Mostly closer. 07:50.707 --> 07:52.428 [SPEAKER_02]: That was so confusing to me. 07:53.549 --> 07:56.552 [SPEAKER_02]: How could he be that close? 07:57.532 --> 08:00.715 [SPEAKER_02]: He would always say things like, you don't want to talk to your heart. 08:00.795 --> 08:02.376 [SPEAKER_02]: So your heart talks to Monka. 08:02.917 --> 08:04.118 [SPEAKER_02]: This was when I was younger. 08:04.738 --> 08:07.681 [SPEAKER_02]: Now I don't get that kind of comment so much. 08:08.945 --> 08:23.229 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so it's a process of growth isn't it, and well, individuation, as you were saying, which I've always found incredibly important idea and process, and especially in the second half of life. 08:24.569 --> 08:32.631 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's young famously said that people are looking for meaning and significance and spiritual outlook 08:39.378 --> 09:04.089 [SPEAKER_02]: some people start earlier like he said he compared life to like the first half of life you're on a ship that's sailing outward going out into life and the second half of life you're on a ship that's sailing inward you're going inward then and not so much need for ego just a relief yes well all the big right 09:04.876 --> 09:05.697 [SPEAKER_02]: or being right. 09:06.017 --> 09:20.935 [SPEAKER_00]: And so let's go on, let's go on to books that have shaped your life and thinking obviously young looms large hair and you said, yeah, but I mean there were so many books that I had to think like one of the first books that I loved. 09:21.335 --> 09:24.957 [SPEAKER_02]: was a daughter of fire by arena tweeting. 09:25.057 --> 09:26.418 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you'd know that. 09:26.659 --> 09:28.200 [SPEAKER_02]: She had a Sufi master. 09:28.220 --> 09:29.741 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was the 30s. 09:29.901 --> 09:34.063 [SPEAKER_02]: It could have been even earlier, but I loved her book. 09:34.323 --> 09:42.409 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a big fat book and I read it and re-read it to try to understand how Sufism was working. 09:43.089 --> 09:44.290 [SPEAKER_02]: I just loved her book. 09:44.790 --> 09:51.533 [SPEAKER_02]: I also loved a biography of Edgar Casey called a river runs through it, or there is a river. 09:52.273 --> 09:59.816 [SPEAKER_02]: He was such a sweet man, and of course, the raw material was transformational for me. 09:59.836 --> 10:05.758 [SPEAKER_02]: Other Seth books, Seth Speaks, all the Jane Rawvers books were transformational. 10:14.102 --> 10:19.486 [SPEAKER_02]: come dance with me, come dance with me, is God's invitation to us. 10:20.127 --> 10:24.691 [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, I know they're very different, a half-ess, realka. 10:25.371 --> 10:33.518 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, then the red book, and the way in 2009, when I got the red book, I wanna came out, I, 10:35.590 --> 10:41.996 [SPEAKER_02]: the beginning of the red book that he opens with, and I typed it so I could read it correctly. 10:42.616 --> 10:44.918 [SPEAKER_02]: My soul, where are you? 10:45.018 --> 10:46.199 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you hear me? 10:46.219 --> 10:47.540 [SPEAKER_02]: I speak. 10:47.800 --> 10:48.641 [SPEAKER_02]: I call you. 10:48.801 --> 10:49.642 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you there? 10:50.663 --> 10:52.124 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so plaintiff. 10:52.224 --> 10:57.709 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he needs his soul so desperately at that point for him. 10:58.250 --> 11:03.156 [SPEAKER_02]: It was 1913 and he and Freud had broken and he had had a nervous breakdown. 11:03.677 --> 11:10.985 [SPEAKER_02]: He couldn't bear the loss of this, the first amazing man he'd ever really met, the first man of substance he said. 11:11.766 --> 11:14.790 [SPEAKER_02]: And when he had to break in order to individuate, 11:16.070 --> 11:17.591 [SPEAKER_02]: He thought he would die. 11:18.191 --> 11:30.139 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone knows now, he kept that loaded revolver next to his bed, thinking I will have to kill myself, because the pain is so great, but his own soul saved him. 11:31.300 --> 11:38.144 [SPEAKER_02]: Monka has told me the same thing, in your most desperate moments, seek your own soul. 11:38.644 --> 11:41.466 [SPEAKER_02]: That is where you will find solace and comfort. 11:42.147 --> 11:43.007 [SPEAKER_02]: Go within, go within. 11:44.780 --> 11:45.940 [SPEAKER_02]: and that's what Young did. 11:47.041 --> 11:50.081 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who was directing him his own soul was. 11:50.261 --> 11:52.782 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, no, I think that's important. 11:52.802 --> 12:00.664 [SPEAKER_00]: I was reading something in the art of prayer this morning about remembering God and remembering also is on the same spectrum. 12:01.104 --> 12:09.566 [SPEAKER_00]: So let me come back to Irina Tweetie and the reason is that I remember very vividly her speaking at mystics and scientists conference 12:13.917 --> 12:32.664 [SPEAKER_00]: She was still alive, and she was a kind of force of nature, and I remember her sitting there with her white hair, and speaking with enormous authority, and so I very much got that impression of her. 12:33.204 --> 12:34.525 [SPEAKER_02]: She walked the talk. 12:34.765 --> 12:35.945 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly. 12:35.985 --> 12:40.047 [SPEAKER_00]: When you got that sense of being an authenticity 12:41.795 --> 12:42.155 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 12:42.996 --> 12:44.397 [SPEAKER_02]: I got it right from the book. 12:44.417 --> 12:45.378 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, never matter. 12:45.699 --> 12:46.339 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. 12:46.840 --> 12:54.286 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you recall or identify any particular moment of insight in your work in relation to the nature of consciousness? 12:54.386 --> 12:55.767 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's probably a lot of them. 12:56.428 --> 12:57.529 [SPEAKER_00]: There's anything that's served. 12:57.649 --> 12:58.450 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. 12:59.851 --> 13:18.964 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if there's one aha moment, but it was like an unfolding over the last, well, no, over the last, all my life, over the last 77 years will be getting, you know, asking my first great teacher, what are we all doing here, like, what are we all doing here? 13:19.024 --> 13:28.211 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know the word consciousness, I didn't, I didn't know everything was just happening in consciousness, the language I got for 13:28.710 --> 13:37.472 [SPEAKER_02]: for understanding that everything is happening in consciousness was from Deepak Chopra, who he just says right out. 13:38.512 --> 13:40.233 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything is happening in consciousness. 13:40.333 --> 13:41.113 [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing is weird. 13:41.353 --> 13:42.773 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything is a simulation. 13:43.353 --> 13:46.034 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to tell you something, David, about Deepak. 13:46.794 --> 13:54.056 [SPEAKER_02]: And you and me, because when I last spoke to you, you had just seen Deepak Chopra in Barcelona. 13:54.076 --> 13:54.896 [SPEAKER_00]: I had, yes. 13:55.516 --> 13:56.276 [SPEAKER_02]: And we got 13:56.870 --> 14:16.494 [SPEAKER_02]: off the podcast or the interview and I was walking to my office and something said to me oh you should stretch your legs so go the long way around go out of your way and circle the block don't go directly so I start going the long way around and I walk smack into 14:25.355 --> 14:33.660 [SPEAKER_02]: And what a synchronously you had just mentioned him and it was like 10 minutes later He was there. 14:34.261 --> 14:38.063 [SPEAKER_02]: He saw me startled and he just Beautiful. 14:38.503 --> 14:43.646 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it was Because why did I go the long way around? 14:43.706 --> 14:52.332 [SPEAKER_02]: I always go directly cried and there he was so some things always talking to us Always always 14:52.930 --> 14:56.471 [SPEAKER_00]: So the synchronicity is probably playing quite an important role in your life. 14:57.852 --> 15:03.134 [SPEAKER_02]: Because young believed that synchronicity was a major link. 15:04.054 --> 15:16.299 [SPEAKER_02]: And now, astrophysics, because of quantum entanglement, has believed in synchronicity too, how can stuff happen billions of light years away, exactly at the same time? 15:17.152 --> 15:21.455 [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, synchronicity, I watch for it all the time. 15:22.055 --> 15:23.476 [SPEAKER_02]: My patients watch for it. 15:23.916 --> 15:35.242 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a lovely reminder that stuff that's happening in what we think of external reality is impacting ultimate reality. 15:35.783 --> 15:39.045 [SPEAKER_02]: And it can just put its hand in any time it wants. 15:39.685 --> 15:43.307 [SPEAKER_02]: If the energy is right, I must have been charged 15:45.950 --> 15:48.273 [SPEAKER_02]: and just pulled him right there. 15:49.314 --> 15:49.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 15:49.835 --> 15:51.456 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't think why else he was there. 15:52.277 --> 15:52.538 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 15:52.638 --> 15:59.326 [SPEAKER_02]: He was concerted, but it was really physically, well, as physically as it gets, we're not physical, but. 16:00.096 --> 16:01.837 [SPEAKER_02]: It was physical unconsciousness. 16:02.258 --> 16:15.467 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so interesting, because that makes me think of a experience of gursus, which I think I read in the book by Andrea Wolff, the magnificent rebels. 16:16.128 --> 16:24.374 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's that he's going through the city, with incredible longing for his mistress. 16:25.690 --> 16:41.845 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is middle of the night and he comes around the corner and there's the mistress and she had picked it up from him You know, he picked this as he'd gone out and they kind of just run into each other and said that the wrote a desire 16:42.606 --> 16:55.290 [SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting there, and some of the new thought thinkers, like Thomas Troward, they talk about this role of desire and the kind of externalisation of desire. 16:56.050 --> 17:01.852 [SPEAKER_02]: And Desire can manifest things that we think of as physical for us. 17:02.852 --> 17:05.253 [SPEAKER_02]: He desired her so much that she appeared. 17:06.111 --> 17:10.494 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, I think he had pretty strong emotions, and I mean he was very passionate. 17:11.294 --> 17:14.256 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he was very passionate, he was very passionate. 17:14.476 --> 17:22.080 [SPEAKER_00]: So I imagine that you're understanding consciousness quite profoundly influences the way you live your life. 17:23.441 --> 17:25.722 [SPEAKER_02]: It does influence the way I live my life. 17:27.743 --> 17:30.125 [SPEAKER_02]: It influences every second because 17:31.383 --> 17:40.522 [SPEAKER_02]: because I believe in unity, that we are all manifestations of one consciousness. 17:41.886 --> 17:47.709 [SPEAKER_02]: It's very hard to stay angry too long, although I get angry my ego gets angry. 17:48.309 --> 17:54.873 [SPEAKER_02]: But I can talk myself back now in a way I couldn't do 30 years ago, even 20 years ago. 17:55.713 --> 17:57.915 [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to be angry at another self. 17:58.855 --> 18:06.639 [SPEAKER_02]: And also, if we're all one, there's no reason for selfishness or greed, or it's not 18:12.005 --> 18:38.970 [SPEAKER_02]: You're not as attached to money, and you can more easily give things away, and we have a lot of homeless in New York City, and some of them are dirty and smelly, and as I walk by them, I'm always saying, you are God, you are God, you are God, you are God, and blessing 18:42.888 --> 18:44.329 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just who's no other. 18:45.429 --> 18:46.810 [SPEAKER_02]: There is no other here. 18:47.010 --> 18:50.752 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is really a profound insight from near-death experiences. 18:51.852 --> 19:00.836 [SPEAKER_00]: And particularly from the near-death experience, life review, where you experience what it's like to be that other person in the situation that is conjured up in the review. 19:01.877 --> 19:02.957 [SPEAKER_02]: That you might have hurt. 19:03.357 --> 19:03.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. 19:04.078 --> 19:08.440 [SPEAKER_00]: And but also people that you've benefited in some ways. 19:08.480 --> 19:09.500 [SPEAKER_00]: So you feel that too. 19:09.560 --> 19:10.821 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not all the downside. 19:11.992 --> 19:31.060 [SPEAKER_02]: yeah thank god yes indeed and what are you working on at the moment that season you working on another book or well i'm supposed to be working on on supposed to be working on the third book of this science fiction trilogy that i started a while ago 19:31.922 --> 19:39.147 [SPEAKER_02]: but I put that third book down because I wanted to write that last book about paranormal stuff. 19:39.707 --> 19:43.850 [SPEAKER_02]: But instead of working on it diligently, I'm learning Italian. 19:44.590 --> 19:48.092 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm telling myself, it's not a waste of time. 19:48.393 --> 19:49.413 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so beautiful. 19:49.493 --> 19:52.115 [SPEAKER_02]: You always wanted to learn it and you're learning it. 19:52.335 --> 19:54.176 [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, you're spending the time. 19:54.196 --> 19:56.938 [SPEAKER_02]: You could have been spending writing, but hey, that's what I'm doing. 19:56.978 --> 19:57.919 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm learning Italian. 19:58.411 --> 19:58.891 [SPEAKER_00]: Wonderful. 19:59.331 --> 20:00.932 [SPEAKER_00]: I've always had desire to do that. 20:01.012 --> 20:06.313 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I'm going to Italy on Thursday, and I had... Wow, you're so lucky. 20:06.333 --> 20:11.954 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but not very much Italian, but enough sort of some basic. 20:12.334 --> 20:14.615 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, they all speak English, but I don't care. 20:14.995 --> 20:16.495 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's such beautiful language. 20:17.275 --> 20:17.555 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 20:17.635 --> 20:19.636 [SPEAKER_00]: And then said, we're coming towards the end. 20:19.656 --> 20:24.877 [SPEAKER_00]: No, do you have a proverb you live by or a favourite quote that you like to share with? 20:26.586 --> 20:36.834 [SPEAKER_02]: I wrote some down, um, I wrote a bunch, but they're simple, give up being right, allow joy to overtake you. 20:38.455 --> 20:41.517 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything is animated by the same presence. 20:43.058 --> 20:44.179 [SPEAKER_02]: Those are both monkeys. 20:45.400 --> 20:49.824 [SPEAKER_02]: The number of minds in the universe is one, Aaron Schrodinger. 20:50.384 --> 20:51.785 [SPEAKER_02]: I never get tired of that. 20:51.865 --> 20:52.706 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so simple. 20:53.903 --> 20:57.144 [SPEAKER_02]: You are a fractal of the cosmic mind, Deepak Chopra. 20:57.565 --> 21:01.066 [SPEAKER_02]: You are timeless awareness, Deepak Chopra. 21:02.827 --> 21:09.049 [SPEAKER_02]: Experience is only in consciousness, not in any place or time, Deepak. 21:09.709 --> 21:10.890 [SPEAKER_02]: Not from young. 21:10.910 --> 21:14.291 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, love is not a choice. 21:14.812 --> 21:15.612 [SPEAKER_02]: You're captured. 21:16.900 --> 21:20.222 [SPEAKER_02]: He actually said, love is not no choice, you're captured. 21:20.582 --> 21:22.843 [SPEAKER_00]: Capture for the different ones. 21:22.863 --> 21:23.383 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Griffin. 21:23.543 --> 21:27.565 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a few of the ones, but they rattle around in my head. 21:27.985 --> 21:31.287 [SPEAKER_02]: Things, monkeys said, things, young said, things, depots said. 21:32.127 --> 21:34.728 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, all that's rattling around there. 21:34.788 --> 21:38.030 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, basically it's be kind, be kind. 21:38.230 --> 21:41.772 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Huxley concluded towards the end of his life. 21:41.812 --> 21:46.294 [SPEAKER_00]: He said it's a little embarrassing after 45 years of research and study. 21:46.354 --> 21:48.955 [SPEAKER_00]: The best advice I can give people is to be kinder. 21:49.595 --> 21:52.137 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Einstein says something like that, too. 21:53.553 --> 21:55.875 [SPEAKER_00]: And then what advice would you give your younger son? 21:56.155 --> 22:02.259 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, I thought part about that and I wrote out what I would say to myself. 22:03.219 --> 22:05.341 [SPEAKER_02]: Approach your life as a good time. 22:06.421 --> 22:12.826 [SPEAKER_02]: Knowing some of it will be a challenge, but the challenge is really to have a good time. 22:13.746 --> 22:17.989 [SPEAKER_02]: Be willing to suffer that pain which is unavoidable. 22:22.825 --> 22:25.607 [SPEAKER_00]: beautiful give yourself generously to each amendment. 22:25.627 --> 22:30.952 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you certainly have done that in the last half an hour or so Susan. 22:30.992 --> 22:35.055 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you very much indeed for joining me on imaginal inspirations. 22:36.176 --> 22:37.778 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me David.