WEBVTT 00:02.403 --> 00:05.326 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey friends, welcome to the Christian Parenting Podcast. 00:05.386 --> 00:07.507 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad that you are with me today. 00:07.608 --> 00:08.809 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Steph Thirling. 00:09.329 --> 00:13.172 [SPEAKER_00]: And today we are talking about how to walk with our kids through heart things. 00:13.933 --> 00:17.516 [SPEAKER_00]: My guest is registered psychologist in author Vanessa Sisa. 00:17.576 --> 00:25.623 [SPEAKER_00]: And she works with kids and parents every day and brings such gentle wisdom for those moments that we just wish that we could fix everything for our kids. 00:26.404 --> 00:29.747 [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about why rescuing can actually hurt our kids in the long run. 00:30.327 --> 00:35.432 [SPEAKER_00]: How presents beats quick fixes and simple ways to build resilience and faith at home. 00:36.033 --> 00:47.504 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to hear practical tools like narrating your own coping in front of your kids, asking whether they want help or just a hug, and using short role plays to practice godly responses when life feels unfair. 00:48.245 --> 00:53.911 [SPEAKER_00]: So if all this resonates with you, check out Vanessa's Children's Book Elizabeth's Miracle, you can find it in the show notes. 00:54.172 --> 00:58.577 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you love this podcast, don't forget to just leave a rating and a review. 00:58.677 --> 01:00.779 [SPEAKER_00]: It really helps other parents find this. 01:00.839 --> 01:02.281 [SPEAKER_00]: So, enjoy Vanessa. 01:09.191 --> 01:10.312 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi Vanessa, how are you? 01:10.332 --> 01:11.193 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm stuffed. 01:11.473 --> 01:12.954 [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a pleasure to be here. 01:12.974 --> 01:14.035 [SPEAKER_01]: It's nice to meet you too. 01:14.335 --> 01:16.517 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, welcome to the Christian parenting podcast. 01:16.537 --> 01:17.678 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad to have you here, too. 01:17.778 --> 01:18.459 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you. 01:18.479 --> 01:20.401 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for having me. 01:20.841 --> 01:21.281 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course. 01:21.481 --> 01:27.286 [SPEAKER_00]: So I like to just kind of jump right in, getting to know my guests that everyone can know your background a little bit. 01:27.326 --> 01:31.350 [SPEAKER_00]: So tell us about yourself, tell us what you do, and then tell us about your family. 01:31.570 --> 01:32.691 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 01:32.892 --> 01:34.694 [SPEAKER_01]: So, my name is Vanessa. 01:34.874 --> 01:39.440 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a registered psychologist, specializes in work with kids in parent. 01:39.760 --> 01:49.212 [SPEAKER_01]: Recently, I'm also the proud author of an educational children's book called Elizabeth's Miracle, which honestly still feels so surreal to say. 01:51.570 --> 01:59.215 [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of my family, you know, I'm actually originally from Venezuela, even though I lived in Canada ever since I was 10. 01:59.576 --> 02:04.959 [SPEAKER_01]: So like your stereotypical Latina, I come from a very very large family. 02:05.680 --> 02:14.386 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually joke with people all the time that I honestly have no idea exactly how many cousins I have because my family is so big. 02:17.568 --> 02:32.182 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, they're everywhere now, like I have cousins in Australia, the US, some of them have been as well, Europe, you know, Latin America, it's really all over the place, which is a blessing because now I get tons of places to travel and 02:32.902 --> 02:54.279 [SPEAKER_01]: See, but as you can imagine, you're growing up in such a big family with so many kids and just so many things going on, that kind of upbringing can definitely shape you quite a lot and I say that it's a result of just growing up in that way that I feel like I just have such a soft spot for working with kids and all the parents who. 02:54.919 --> 03:01.565 [SPEAKER_01]: work to support and love them whether it's, you know, teachers, even or other professionals. 03:01.665 --> 03:07.510 [SPEAKER_01]: So I've devoted a big part of my life just working to support all these beautiful people. 03:07.710 --> 03:08.891 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love that. 03:08.991 --> 03:11.133 [SPEAKER_00]: And today we're talking a lot about what you do. 03:11.333 --> 03:15.617 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that we're focusing on is like walking with our kids through hard things. 03:15.997 --> 03:16.198 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, 03:16.838 --> 03:29.888 [SPEAKER_00]: Small things to us but big things to them like not making a team or not being invited to a party, you know like all those things I happen to kids and then there are the bigger things to that happen unfortunately in our kids lives that they have to work through. 03:30.589 --> 03:42.457 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this topic is so important because as parents we really want to protect our kids from those things like I whenever my kids are feeling hurt I wish I could just take it on myself you know or just fix it and make it go away 03:44.599 --> 03:48.884 [SPEAKER_00]: figure any about, but that's not, I know that's not the right thing to do. 03:48.924 --> 03:51.647 [SPEAKER_00]: I know I can't do that and I know it's not the right thing to do. 03:51.727 --> 03:53.990 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about that a little bit. 03:54.010 --> 04:02.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Like as tempting as it is, why is it a bad idea to raise our kids without any tools to go through rejection in their lives at that? 04:02.439 --> 04:16.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks so much for asking that because I think that's such a common thing and even for us as professionals who work with these, you know, beautiful creatures and gifts of God like it's heartbreaking to see kids hurting. 04:17.545 --> 04:34.776 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe in ways in which we have heard ourselves, I think it's even more challenging to let them sit in the pain when we may hear ourselves know what that's like and then yeah being a possession where you just can't do the actual rescuing or saving that you wanted to. 04:36.662 --> 04:39.523 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, with that, there's a big danger, right? 04:39.603 --> 04:47.426 [SPEAKER_01]: And as psychologists, we talk a lot about this, which is the dangers of rescuing kids from the heart things. 04:47.666 --> 04:54.168 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, as a psychologist who also happens to be a Christian, sometimes I like to think about the Bible to help me with this. 04:54.308 --> 04:57.649 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think about all the things that Jesus told us about. 04:57.689 --> 05:03.851 [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, you know, in this world, you will experience hardship, because sadly there's sin in this world, right? 05:03.951 --> 05:05.192 [SPEAKER_01]: And there are hearts and breaks. 05:05.532 --> 05:24.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Part of the dangers of rescuing kids are trying to fix the problems for them when they enter these really painful and hurtful situations is that we essentially rob them of the opportunity to learn valuable skills that will help them cope through life's challenges as they grow up. 05:24.243 --> 05:27.144 [SPEAKER_01]: Because at some point we will not be there, right? 05:27.344 --> 05:32.868 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's that they move out or go to college or whatever, they get married and what's going to happen then, 05:33.708 --> 05:42.357 [SPEAKER_01]: if they don't have those valuable skills to help them deal with rejection or hurt to disappointment when it inevitably comes. 05:42.417 --> 05:54.730 [SPEAKER_01]: So these opportunities early in life can be great, learning opportunities for kids and as hard as it is sometimes it's the most valuable thing that we can do for kids in our moment is to just 05:55.150 --> 06:15.218 [SPEAKER_01]: be there and help coach them through and share a little bit of our faith and even our stories to help encourage them and know where to turn to and who to ask for help and how to lean into the difficulties instead of escaping or avoiding that which is such a natural human tendency. 06:16.178 --> 06:16.938 [SPEAKER_01]: teacher, it's right? 06:17.199 --> 06:21.901 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I always want to very speak to groups of parents specifically moms. 06:22.041 --> 06:26.924 [SPEAKER_00]: I always tell them like, your kids don't need you to be their savior because they already have one and it's not you. 06:26.944 --> 06:42.472 [SPEAKER_00]: It turns out and you know it's like we want to save them from every hard situation and then we rob them of an opportunity to learn but we also rob them of the opportunity to learn to depend on Jesus because like you said they were not always going to be there as much as I would like. 06:42.812 --> 06:43.693 [SPEAKER_00]: to always be there. 06:43.793 --> 06:44.373 [SPEAKER_00]: I won't be. 06:44.393 --> 06:47.655 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like they will move out someday and then someday I'll be done. 06:47.775 --> 06:50.457 [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't like to think about that, but it is true. 06:50.737 --> 06:56.280 [SPEAKER_00]: So in the long term versus the short term, when we don't like, well, actually I guess let's talk about that. 06:56.380 --> 07:00.883 [SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the things that we're talking about when you're saying, like, let your kids struggle a little bit. 07:01.323 --> 07:05.946 [SPEAKER_00]: And when we don't let that happen, like, what are you seeing happen in the long run? 07:06.346 --> 07:07.167 [SPEAKER_00]: We rob our kids of that. 07:08.068 --> 07:24.208 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously when we don't help our kids stay in the hard things, we're essentially putting them in situations where we really see a higher propensity for them to develop things like depression and anxiety. 07:24.608 --> 07:33.195 [SPEAKER_01]: In some extreme cases, we also see suicidal ideation and self-harm because the pain is so intense, they just don't know how to deal with it. 07:33.575 --> 07:42.222 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, in a spiritual sense, a lot of people, whenever there's pain and suffering, there's also questions that can come up about God and our faith. 07:42.402 --> 07:48.447 [SPEAKER_01]: And so inevitably, without support and without guidance in those spaces, we're also putting 07:55.072 --> 08:09.497 [SPEAKER_01]: And that can be such a tough space as well and not to mention the impact that something like this rejection often happens relationally or in community and sometimes in settings where there's other people. 08:09.557 --> 08:19.140 [SPEAKER_01]: So times one of the things that we've seen doesn't the short term, sorry, is that they do have a propensity to when they're Spain, they isolate and they 08:19.860 --> 08:21.620 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of turn within themselves. 08:21.941 --> 08:44.146 [SPEAKER_01]: And that can be really dangerous because in that isolation, we can also see how the pain can also impact their identity in Christ and just very unity in general, like maybe based on what other people are saying or what circumstances are maybe saying about them rather than what the Bible or even God says about them. 08:44.406 --> 08:44.866 [SPEAKER_01]: And that can be 08:46.306 --> 08:57.210 [SPEAKER_01]: you can definitely see the impact on how all of those things can have on relationships and your ability to even make friends or for many new kind of relationships with anyone. 08:57.550 --> 08:58.950 [SPEAKER_01]: Kids, right, adults. 08:59.290 --> 09:07.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, in that community element is so important and we learn how to be part of a community as a kid, right, and it's so important. 09:07.213 --> 09:12.595 [SPEAKER_00]: And not just regular development, but in our faith development too, it would be surrounded by people who are supporting us all at 09:16.196 --> 09:16.456 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 09:17.277 --> 09:17.557 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 09:17.857 --> 09:18.678 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 09:18.958 --> 09:24.362 [SPEAKER_01]: I often get the example to the kids that I work with whenever we talk about this. 09:24.542 --> 09:34.549 [SPEAKER_01]: I often get them the example of, in all my years as a psychologist, I've never once had someone come in and tell me, I love it when I'm in pain. 09:34.790 --> 09:36.551 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it when I cry. 09:37.151 --> 09:40.314 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it when people reject me and things don't go my way. 09:40.674 --> 09:45.459 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it when my dreams just are crushed to dust and on the left with nothing. 09:45.639 --> 09:47.721 [SPEAKER_01]: No one alive has ever said that. 09:47.741 --> 09:48.401 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they do. 09:48.441 --> 09:51.944 [SPEAKER_01]: They often say it in a very sarcastic way. 09:53.125 --> 10:05.830 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that says something, you know, as human beings, none of us like to feel the negative things, no one really ever wants to be in a position where you're feeling sad or bad in any sort of way. 10:06.331 --> 10:18.736 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that when I think about that, it makes all a sense in the world why you would want to just retract and do everything you can to push it away, push it down or just escape it. 10:19.336 --> 10:31.203 [SPEAKER_01]: by diving into your own world of video games or social media or just trying to distract yourself with TV or absolutely anything you can get your hands on. 10:31.403 --> 10:33.384 [SPEAKER_01]: But really, there's so much there. 10:33.724 --> 10:34.124 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 10:34.745 --> 10:39.748 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's such a danger in just avoiding that even in the short term too. 10:39.768 --> 10:43.170 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some things that you're not hearing in a counseling office. 10:43.230 --> 10:46.992 [SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the things that you are hearing from kids and from parents too? 10:47.726 --> 10:57.612 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say that when it comes to rejection, some of the most common things that I hear from kids, and I also hear this from a lot of adults that I work with, too, is how lonely they feel. 10:57.632 --> 11:08.158 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's often a very surprising thing, but pain as we said is, can be a very isolating thing, because naturally you tend to retract and retreat to yourself when you feel like 11:08.558 --> 11:20.207 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe even the people around you are a lot of them will turn into this rescue or savor mode and they're giving you all these tips and advice, there's some things that have maybe helped them. 11:20.788 --> 11:36.100 [SPEAKER_01]: But in reality, when you're in a lot of pain, sometimes the best and the thing that people most want, and this is something that I hear, time and time again, is just someone there for you to hug you, cry for you and just listen. 11:36.720 --> 11:49.913 [SPEAKER_01]: instead of just jumping to, you know, this is what you need to do in order to get out of this and like you'll feel better, like give it a year, you know, like a lot of people don't really find that as comforting as you would think. 11:52.190 --> 11:56.131 [SPEAKER_01]: And I hear this from kids too, and that they just feel so lonely. 11:56.211 --> 12:04.733 [SPEAKER_01]: Like as their parents and adults in their life just start moving pieces and start searching them schools or start doing all these things. 12:05.093 --> 12:12.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes they tell me like, I wish I just could receive a hug and someone to just tell me that it's all okay. 12:12.495 --> 12:12.815 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, 12:13.775 --> 12:39.651 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that sitting in those spaces, we understand just how validating and how important it is to just sit and elect the Bible says, you know, we, with those who we before we move to Actionably provide care and compassion and I think that's very humbling for us is professionals because we pride ourselves in all the tools and trainings that we have sometimes but we forget. 12:40.526 --> 12:56.282 [SPEAKER_01]: the value and power in just your presence and being there and I think that's one of the most common things is just how lonely and unseen they feel in their pain time and time again like I'd say the most common phrase is no one understands. 12:56.582 --> 12:58.484 [SPEAKER_01]: no one understands what I'm going through. 12:59.005 --> 13:01.307 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just don't know what's going to happen. 13:01.527 --> 13:11.356 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's just such a fear around that because the pain is so it's like a fog, you know, it just blinds you and doesn't let you see past this situation. 13:11.437 --> 13:16.942 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's such a, you know, human thing to experience, you know, even adults, you're that. 13:17.222 --> 13:17.442 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 13:17.682 --> 13:27.329 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's so interesting that these kids are feeling sad or they're feeling rejected and they just want their parents to give them a hug and just be with them because again, like it is so easy. 13:27.409 --> 13:30.251 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like you said to be like, oh, you don't make the baseball team you wanted. 13:30.331 --> 13:34.014 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll switch and go to a different club or you don't want to be a friends at school. 13:34.074 --> 13:44.482 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll just switch schools or like you just to move them around and try to tailor their world to fit them instead of figuring out how they can just be a support right there. 13:45.022 --> 14:10.877 [SPEAKER_00]: the present and oh my gosh so easy for me to sit at a microphone like do that you know it's way harder when your kids are actually hurting so what would you say to the parent who feels like their child is discouraged and or struggling with rejection right now yeah well first I just want to say I'm sorry I'm there in that position I can totally empathize and know it it feels like to just 14:11.337 --> 14:30.349 [SPEAKER_01]: look into the eyes of this little person you love so much and just really want to take that pain away and I just want to first start by validating what a difficult and hard position it is and it is going to feel like doing something like this is going to feel like you're going against the grain a little bit and what you want to do. 14:31.189 --> 14:36.373 [SPEAKER_01]: but an encouragement that I would provide for you guys is too. 14:37.354 --> 14:45.201 [SPEAKER_01]: Think of moments in your life where you have been through hardships and think of times where God has seen you through. 14:45.221 --> 14:53.348 [SPEAKER_01]: The same God that you worship and has gotten you through these hard moments is the same God that will help your child now. 14:53.728 --> 15:07.771 [SPEAKER_01]: It might be a totally different situation and you might feel at a total loss, but I find such comfort in knowing that at the cross, on top of all the physical suffering that Jesus went through, he was also rejected. 15:08.031 --> 15:16.633 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's such a beautiful part of the gospel that sometimes we overlook because, and in this moment, I think it's so important to remind ourselves of that 15:23.935 --> 15:24.996 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just be there. 15:25.236 --> 15:42.202 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't underestimate the power of just your presence, you know, before the cross and got Semini, Jesus wanted to just be with His disciples and be with His Father, and that was all you wanted, you know, aside from obviously praying to see if the cup could pass in all of that. 15:42.702 --> 15:45.924 [SPEAKER_01]: He also just wanted someone to be there with Him, and 15:46.964 --> 16:05.790 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that is something that kids as well as adults want when they're in just an unbelievable amount of pain and if all that you do is have a micro moment of connection with your kid or you just offer them your presence and hug that is so much more than you realize. 16:06.030 --> 16:07.411 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a fun aside. 16:07.431 --> 16:10.872 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually just this reminds me of a study that I read yesterday. 16:16.554 --> 16:18.775 [SPEAKER_01]: physical presence on a child. 16:18.915 --> 16:25.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Just I'm not talking like any advice giving or anything just a parent being there with the kid. 16:26.078 --> 16:43.945 [SPEAKER_01]: We actually found that when we put kids on an FMRI machine, just like a brain imaging machine, the physical presence of an adult figure that they love, provided them and activated certain parts of the brain that help them with emotional regulation. 16:44.865 --> 16:45.105 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm. 16:45.185 --> 16:46.726 [SPEAKER_01]: This was a parent that did nothing. 16:46.766 --> 17:00.012 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they were just standing there and we actually found that they were see the same effects when they saw picture of someone they love and I think that, you know, I think that study is just a perfect example of how just 17:00.452 --> 17:20.243 [SPEAKER_01]: being there and holding their hand is doing so much more than you realize and so if you're sitting there in that moment and you're sitting in front of this kid whose heart is just breaking and you're wondering what to do, if all you're able to do is offer your presence and you know that is so much more. 17:21.343 --> 17:25.467 [SPEAKER_01]: and you could possibly imagine and that could actually help a lot. 17:25.628 --> 17:29.592 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm about so much because we would get stuck in our words sometimes. 17:29.692 --> 17:35.137 [SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to someone once during an interview that they were saying there, they went through a very hard time with their child. 17:35.157 --> 17:37.760 [SPEAKER_00]: Their child's on life support for a while and not awake. 17:37.960 --> 17:44.467 [SPEAKER_00]: And the nurse pointed out that the mom she went over and gave her son who's on my sport a kiss on the forehead. 17:44.947 --> 17:58.739 [SPEAKER_00]: And they could see the change in there and his brain waves or activity or whatever just from a kiss when he wasn't really conscious necessarily and I just cling to that so much because sometimes as my kids get older, they're like, don't hug me, don't kiss me and I'm like, I'm going to go do a while you're sleeping. 17:58.759 --> 18:04.684 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to come and sneak into your own give you a hug because your little brain waves are going to know that I'm there. 18:06.045 --> 18:07.145 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it really is. 18:07.185 --> 18:09.206 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's such a deep connection. 18:09.266 --> 18:17.689 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's such interesting research when you start to read the connection between parents and their kids and it's just a good reminder that we don't have to have all the right words all the time. 18:29.366 --> 18:46.446 [SPEAKER_00]: I've learned a good phrase is, do you want me to talk this over with you or do you want me to just be here with you and they usually are able to tell me what they want and sometimes it's surprisingly they want to talk and sometimes they're like seriously just sit here or actually I want to be alone, you know, they tend to know those things. 18:46.646 --> 18:59.872 [SPEAKER_00]: But how can we, as parents, besides being there, which obviously we wanna be, but how can we teach our kids to keep trusting God and to keep meaning on to him when life feels unfair or painful or they're really struggling? 18:59.892 --> 19:01.913 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's such a deep one, right? 19:02.213 --> 19:10.357 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say that, you know, from the things that we know of kids and how they learn, we know that kids learn a lot from role modeling. 19:12.306 --> 19:26.382 [SPEAKER_01]: So whenever hardships arrive in your life as they naturally do, I would say there can be small day-to-day hardships that you face as a parent every single day and then there is the bigger stuff that can happen. 19:26.662 --> 19:31.127 [SPEAKER_01]: More often than not, we get more of the hopefully the smaller ones. 19:31.708 --> 19:38.591 [SPEAKER_01]: We stand to do a lot of good and just even showing our kids how we tackle those day-to-day things. 19:38.951 --> 19:46.034 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that sometimes I challenge of my parents and even the teachers that I've worked with too to learn how to do is to 19:47.234 --> 20:05.651 [SPEAKER_01]: say things out loud, like almost narrate what you're doing when something hard happens so that the kids can first pay attention to a little bit more to what you're doing and they'll you'll find that they will stare at you like they'll be like, well, this is different like why she telling me what she's thinking. 20:05.871 --> 20:21.791 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're able to walk them through exactly what's going through your head and I'll say like you know that didn't go like I hope you know I'm burn the eggs or we're running so late and I feel so stressed if I keep going like this I know I'm going to explode bye 20:22.171 --> 20:22.751 [SPEAKER_01]: you know what? 20:23.091 --> 20:33.893 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to take a moment to pray to God and ask Him for strength and or you know go to the go to the word, get a verse, memorize it and then keep going. 20:34.234 --> 20:48.396 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be right back and just like even just saying that is such a powerful way of showing them what it looks like to trust and lean into the Lord when things are not going well or when things are less than ideal. 20:51.317 --> 20:52.278 [SPEAKER_01]: a great strategy. 20:52.639 --> 21:10.819 [SPEAKER_01]: I also think that another one that we often, you know, do a lot of in therapy, but this is something that is also very easy to do, is that when things are hard and if the child, of course, as you said, is willing to listen and engage with us, there can be such power in also sharing our stories. 21:11.179 --> 21:24.751 [SPEAKER_01]: with, you know, maybe sharing with them about a time when maybe something, you know, didn't go great and you had to lean into the Lord for strength and what that looked like for you. 21:25.632 --> 21:26.953 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether or not you did it well. 21:27.553 --> 21:29.215 [SPEAKER_01]: or you did it, get it? 21:29.735 --> 21:46.512 [SPEAKER_01]: I always tell parents, you know, share those bad stories too because that humanized things for them and it allows them to know that it won't be perfect, but that's okay, that's life, you know, like you can God forgive you and we can get right back in there and try again. 21:47.572 --> 21:58.361 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of humanity in that, I think when I share that example sometimes parents feel a little bit more relaxed because they're like, I didn't know that I have many examples of where I twisted God well. 21:58.461 --> 22:02.844 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I tried, but it was kind of wonky, but share those stories anyway. 22:03.205 --> 22:07.007 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's such power in just doing that. 22:08.088 --> 22:14.151 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say the last thing would also be just, even practicing that, you know, is it naturally happens? 22:14.531 --> 22:33.120 [SPEAKER_01]: If your kid is willing to talk and engage with you, walk them through what it looks like to lean into a Lord with the small stuff, so that when the big stuff comes and we've practiced that, they're able to have tools in an idea of what it can, you know, look like. 22:33.300 --> 22:33.500 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:34.100 --> 22:49.357 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the idea of sharing what didn't necessarily go perfectly because that also just shows it like you said our humanity, I just feel like it's so common for us to want to be perfect for our kids, but then at a certain point we will fall off that pedestal, you know, and we just 22:49.597 --> 23:13.265 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really want my kids to view me as the perfect mom in the perfect Christian who has everything put together and I never made a mistake That when they're eventually at the same place, I am they're like my mom always do that better You know, not that they do they very much know I make mistakes, but it's really important to me because I just it releases the burden a little bit and allows them to rely more on God in less on me as a parent which is so important. 23:13.285 --> 23:15.326 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so many of us desire and 23:15.746 --> 23:23.193 [SPEAKER_00]: all of this relates back to your book that you wrote your children's book which is an amazing resource for parents of young kids and older kids too. 23:23.634 --> 23:33.063 [SPEAKER_00]: I love using picture books for my kids who are older elementary age and middle school about kind of working through rejection and a difficulty. 23:33.123 --> 23:37.047 [SPEAKER_00]: So tell us a little bit about it and how it can be used by parents. 23:37.375 --> 23:58.843 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well first of all, thank you for that, you know, my book is an educational state-based children's book and basically tells the story of this young girl who experiences, you know, friendship loss or rejection as a result of being a bit different than maybe some of the other 24:05.165 --> 24:13.528 [SPEAKER_01]: and just helps to guide her gaze back to what the word of God says about her because naturally in those situations. 24:13.668 --> 24:28.332 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's very common for your identity as I mentioned for the pain to just kind of work the way you see yourself and as a result of that, we she's able to get to a place where she can maybe reef some of the ways in which she's seeing this hardship 24:33.174 --> 24:41.917 [SPEAKER_01]: to make her this way all along and maybe what other people have projected can actually be a blessing for others all along. 24:42.017 --> 24:51.120 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the special part of the book is really in the part that I was most excited about when I wrote it to was the role playing activity in the back. 24:51.360 --> 24:53.360 [SPEAKER_01]: I love role playing as a psychologist. 24:53.460 --> 24:58.402 [SPEAKER_01]: I think anyone of us who works in the counseling field. 24:58.442 --> 25:00.983 [SPEAKER_01]: We know how beneficial role playing can be. 25:01.903 --> 25:05.484 [SPEAKER_01]: And so roleplaying uses, you know, multi-sensory learning. 25:05.564 --> 25:18.486 [SPEAKER_01]: So what it essentially allows is that it creates a space for us to do what I was saying earlier, which is just safely talk about some of these hard things that maybe we saw in the story. 25:18.646 --> 25:31.389 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, first connect with the character and then draw it to our own personal lives and then through roleplaying repetition, we're able to practice, you know, maybe godly responses. 25:31.649 --> 25:37.971 [SPEAKER_01]: or maybe alternative behaviors that we wish we could have had in real life, but maybe we didn't, right? 25:38.011 --> 25:41.432 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how many kids have I worked with? 25:41.472 --> 25:51.996 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I worked a lot with three-year-olds who, you know, sometimes end up hitting in school or biting when they get really frustrated and things don't go their way. 25:52.236 --> 25:55.857 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes role playing can be a great space for us to, you know. 25:56.337 --> 25:59.339 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's what you did and we know why you did it. 25:59.579 --> 26:02.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's practice what you could have done instead. 26:02.622 --> 26:25.458 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we played and we practiced in, we find that with this multi-sensory learning and with the discussion and reading, we have a higher propensity for kids to not just store the lessons and the verses and the message and all of that, but they also have an ability to grow and actually move from knowing to doing. 26:26.522 --> 26:35.430 [SPEAKER_01]: What you know, they hopefully want to do right or what things you're doing in those situations to better help. 26:35.471 --> 26:35.731 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 26:36.011 --> 26:42.277 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is so helpful because I like while you love it, it is my like not comfort zone. 26:42.917 --> 26:53.401 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh my gosh, like we did some parent coaching and my husband and I and they had us do all this role playing and I was like I'm like sweating like I am so uncomfortable right now I don't know what to do. 26:53.641 --> 26:56.222 [SPEAKER_00]: We like we did that on a work call recently. 26:56.282 --> 27:11.868 [SPEAKER_00]: They had role playing and I was like I can't I just cannot like it was our manager's training and I'm like Freeze up, but I know it's really good and so it's so helpful that every source where it's like here's a script like here's just written out what you can do because as someone who is like absolutely not 27:12.268 --> 27:18.876 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very helpful, because it is so important and beneficial because we want our kids to actually internalize what we're trying to say. 27:18.976 --> 27:23.562 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you can sit here and be like, don't hit 500 million times, and that's only going to go so far. 27:23.923 --> 27:26.566 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, totally. 27:27.066 --> 27:28.028 [SPEAKER_01]: It will only work that easy. 27:28.048 --> 27:29.630 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm right. 27:32.532 --> 27:35.214 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, like that's actually such a common thing. 27:35.535 --> 27:43.661 [SPEAKER_01]: I know even when I talk to when I walk through the parents and teachers through like a role playing because I use it a lot of my session. 27:44.321 --> 27:47.264 [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a common response without to say, you know, give me a second. 27:47.284 --> 27:48.124 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 27:49.085 --> 27:49.345 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 27:49.686 --> 27:57.894 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing, too, is that it's also the benefit to doing these things is that girl playing in itself because you're acting and being silly and playing. 27:58.254 --> 28:02.198 [SPEAKER_01]: It also helps to build trust because you're being so vulnerable. 28:02.878 --> 28:10.626 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's that's actually such a bonding activity for you to put yourself in a position where even on a work hall, you're willing to 28:11.106 --> 28:29.746 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the less than perfect, and maybe, and all over your words, and kind of struggle a little bit until you find your footing, that's something that, you know, is so helpful for attachment and for trust building and just building some connection between parents and kids which. 28:30.967 --> 28:53.260 [SPEAKER_01]: In scenarios like this we definitely want right because as we talked about there's such power and having just at least one adult and I can like that they can trust so building and doing things like that even when you're uncomfortable you know it's so so powerful but yeah yeah it's worth the discomfort 28:53.859 --> 29:04.945 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to let you know the good thing that I also tell parents to and maybe this is something that you can also That might also help you, too, is that you don't have to be perfect. 29:05.385 --> 29:07.807 [SPEAKER_01]: Just be present and proud. 29:08.087 --> 29:10.768 [SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the day, that's also what we ask of kids do. 29:10.808 --> 29:12.749 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is not going to be perfect. 29:12.809 --> 29:18.392 [SPEAKER_01]: They're likely not going to nail a lot of this stuff in the first go either. 29:18.632 --> 29:19.373 [SPEAKER_01]: We're just going to try. 29:20.114 --> 29:24.562 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to give it a go and we're going to be silly together and worse comes to worse. 29:24.642 --> 29:29.973 [SPEAKER_01]: We embarrass ourselves and friend of each other and we forget about this and we try to move on. 29:32.989 --> 29:33.889 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so good. 29:34.350 --> 29:42.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell us just to wrap up our time where we can find your book and where we can connect with you because you have so many resources in there. 29:42.356 --> 29:44.137 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love for people to be able to get their hands on it. 29:44.157 --> 29:45.979 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure, I thank you. 29:46.159 --> 29:49.922 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a few different platforms that you can get the book. 29:49.962 --> 29:57.948 [SPEAKER_01]: So first, I think you can, the easiest way is to go into my website which is www.denessa.com. 29:59.569 --> 30:02.292 [SPEAKER_01]: the A&E SSA SISO. 30:02.572 --> 30:09.540 [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of individual places and stores, the book is also found on Amazon Canada and the Sun. 30:10.507 --> 30:30.333 [SPEAKER_01]: USA Barnes & Noble chapter is in christianbook.com as well and there's a few indie bookstores as well that are selling the book and for those who are on a budget too there's also ebook versions as well if you want to save trees and all that there's wonderful options there as well. 30:30.573 --> 30:30.953 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 30:30.973 --> 30:41.424 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't get all that stuff linked in China so we can find it easily and everyone can connect it to you But I just really appreciate your insight and sharing with us and just spending some time with me today So thank you for being here. 30:41.444 --> 30:44.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you so much for having me with such a pleasure to be here. 30:45.027 --> 30:45.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, softly 30:50.435 --> 30:52.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, you guys, thank you so much for listening today. 30:53.118 --> 30:58.665 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to go deeper, check out Show Notes for Vanessa's book, Elizabeth Miracle, and ways to connect with her. 30:59.206 --> 31:03.911 [SPEAKER_00]: And if this episode serve you, please follow the show and leave a quick review and a rating. 31:04.011 --> 31:06.134 [SPEAKER_00]: It really makes the difference for podcasts host. 31:06.882 --> 31:16.305 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening, make out bless you this week and may he meet you in the messy middle of parenting and give you patient words, listening ears and a comforting presence. 31:16.906 --> 31:23.268 [SPEAKER_00]: May your home be a place where truth and tenderness grow in where your children learn to lean on Jesus in every season.