WEBVTT 00:00.051 --> 00:02.514 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Prejuice Podcast. 00:02.754 --> 00:20.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Today's episode is based on information I've gathered from multiple anonymous sources that are familiar with the internal operations of Liberty Baptist Church in Durham, North Carolina, as well as recordings of two church meetings that were held and not otherwise broadcast. 00:20.552 --> 00:24.996 [SPEAKER_00]: And the allegations that I'm going to mention in this particular episode are not my own. 00:25.817 --> 00:32.923 [SPEAKER_00]: Any individuals referenced or presumed innocent of any wrongdoing or criminal activity until proven guilty in a court of law. 00:33.624 --> 00:44.514 [SPEAKER_00]: I've made significant efforts to verify the information presented in this episode, and in spite of that, some details remain unconfirmed due to the sense of nature of the events. 00:44.994 --> 00:47.376 [SPEAKER_00]: and the desire of sources to remain anonymous. 00:47.736 --> 01:01.724 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to make clear when something has been specifically said by leadership within the church or by Pastor Scott Gray and when something is unconfermed but shared with me through one of these anonymous sources. 01:01.744 --> 01:04.806 [SPEAKER_02]: I have not done the one thing that would 01:11.450 --> 01:19.944 [SPEAKER_00]: Pastor Scott Gray spoke these words to the congregation of Liberty Baptist Church in Durham, North Carolina, shortly after announcing his resignation on September 10, 2025. 01:22.643 --> 01:34.608 [SPEAKER_00]: In his less than 13-minute statement, Gray admitted that church finances were in disarray, that loans have been taken out without board knowledge, and that his failure to supervise staff left the church's records in a mess. 01:35.289 --> 01:36.869 [SPEAKER_02]: In June, Ms. 01:36.889 --> 01:45.093 [SPEAKER_02]: Christen Green came to me and offered her services to help with the finances that she has finished an upper account in degree, and it was a God's sound. 01:46.712 --> 01:47.352 [SPEAKER_02]: and Ms. 01:47.392 --> 01:49.874 [SPEAKER_02]: Christen has and is doing a phenomenal job. 01:49.894 --> 01:51.995 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to say thank you for that. 01:52.055 --> 01:53.616 [SPEAKER_02]: Appreciate her work for the Lord. 01:55.036 --> 02:05.982 [SPEAKER_02]: Christen came to me and after working, to get in, started with that, another accountant that was helping guide her, started working through our quick books. 02:06.062 --> 02:14.106 [SPEAKER_02]: And she let me know that she felt that our quick books, this gentleman in her words, it's in a mess. 02:14.806 --> 02:33.435 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to hear Pastor Gray's full statement, you can actually head over to preacherboys.substacked.com, where I have the full complete statement from Pastor Gray as well as the full statement from the church available to listen to in its entirety, but I'll play certain clips throughout this episode for the context that you need. 02:34.075 --> 02:43.540 [SPEAKER_02]: Pastor Gray kept the details vague, saying things like, I normally have done anything to violate any of the biblical requirements for the office of 02:44.460 --> 02:52.527 [SPEAKER_00]: During his statement, he maintained that he was leaving to keep the church from being harmed or splitting rather than as a consequence of wrongdoing on his part. 02:52.807 --> 03:00.533 [SPEAKER_02]: In the spirit of peace and healing effective tonight, I will be resigning as petster. 03:01.798 --> 03:12.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Great acknowledged one outstanding $26,215 loan with truest bank, tied to a 2018 property purchase, along with a balloon note of $96,900. 03:12.386 --> 03:29.859 [SPEAKER_00]: For those of you that are listening, a balloon note is a type of loan where the bar were makes relatively small payments, often just covering the interest or partial amount of the principle over the life of the loan, and then owes a large balloon payment of the 03:31.440 --> 03:31.780 [SPEAKER_00]: the end. 03:32.161 --> 03:41.307 [SPEAKER_00]: He attempted to reassure members citing account balances totaling just over $1 million, which by comparison made the outstanding balances seem small. 03:41.867 --> 03:48.452 [SPEAKER_00]: However, on September 14th, 2025, the Church's leadership team told a very different story. 03:49.172 --> 03:53.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Daniel Morrissey, the church music pastor, ready-prepared statement from the leadership team. 03:54.354 --> 04:06.178 [SPEAKER_00]: It painted a picture of extensive financial mismanagement and raised questions surrounding the ethics of Scott Gray's leadership and the involvement of his sons, Scotty, Philip, and Stephen in the ministry. 04:06.819 --> 04:11.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, you can listen to the church's full statement over at preacherboys.substack.com. 04:12.361 --> 04:15.942 [SPEAKER_00]: Here are just a few of the issues that were raised by church leadership. 04:19.328 --> 04:21.828 [SPEAKER_01]: inconsistent record-keeping within QuickBooks. 04:22.709 --> 04:25.409 [SPEAKER_01]: Financial transactions that were not properly accounted for. 04:26.409 --> 04:32.610 [SPEAKER_01]: Five loans taken within 14 months with unclear purposes and use of those funds. 04:33.711 --> 04:36.991 [SPEAKER_01]: In addition to this, the deacons and trustees were never made aware of these loans. 04:38.231 --> 04:43.472 [SPEAKER_01]: Misuse of staff credit cards for personal purchases, including things like personal food, 04:47.300 --> 04:50.541 [SPEAKER_01]: hotel rental cars Airbnb and gas. 04:52.022 --> 04:57.144 [SPEAKER_01]: A dating website relationship that led to a scam resulting in a $3,400 loss. 04:58.765 --> 05:06.889 [SPEAKER_01]: These examples most occurring within a 90-day period, further eroded trust in Pastor Gray and his family's continued employment under his leadership. 05:08.329 --> 05:11.150 [SPEAKER_01]: Additionally, while Pastor Gray was approved for a $38,000 05:18.729 --> 05:22.330 [SPEAKER_01]: 46,948 in two cents annually for his housing. 05:23.250 --> 05:30.092 [SPEAKER_01]: A portion of this total number was paid directly from the church checking account to his mortgage company. 05:30.812 --> 05:32.853 [SPEAKER_01]: This practice was stopped once discovered. 05:34.733 --> 05:39.175 [SPEAKER_01]: Though so personal purchases mentioned above were paid, the majority were not. 05:40.335 --> 05:44.836 [SPEAKER_01]: We are accountable before God to steward his resources faithfully. 05:45.674 --> 05:50.177 [SPEAKER_01]: and this reality intensified the loss of confidence and past degrees leadership. 05:50.458 --> 05:57.903 [SPEAKER_00]: According to this statement, LBC currently carries $41,000 more in debt than it holds in all of its accounts combined. 05:58.143 --> 06:00.965 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a true alone in the amount of $26,317. 06:01.005 --> 06:05.108 [SPEAKER_01]: A first citizen's loan in the amount of $96,145 which would be for the house down at a victory in guess. 06:14.477 --> 06:18.718 [SPEAKER_01]: We have church credit card debt, just under $80,000. 06:20.719 --> 06:28.121 [SPEAKER_01]: For those who did the quick math, we have around $41,000 more in debt than we have in our church abominable counts combined. 06:29.501 --> 06:32.102 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep in mind that our church mortgage was paid off in 2020. 06:33.143 --> 06:47.173 [SPEAKER_00]: Sources I've talked to who are close to the church have estimated that the amount of loans and credit card charges were in the six figures, but I have not been able to confirm an exact number with the church and they didn't give an exact number in the statement to the congregation. 06:47.553 --> 06:50.895 [SPEAKER_00]: Beyond financial issues, they also raised ethical concerns. 06:51.556 --> 06:57.600 [SPEAKER_00]: A leader said that there were specifically involving gray sons, the three of whom served on staff. 07:02.618 --> 07:06.519 [SPEAKER_01]: The most public example was a TikTok video containing sexual themes. 07:07.560 --> 07:14.022 [SPEAKER_01]: This conduct is clearly unbecoming of Christian leadership, particularly for those ministering to children and families. 07:15.562 --> 07:18.883 [SPEAKER_01]: Further ethical issues involved past degrees, songs. 07:20.244 --> 07:28.026 [SPEAKER_01]: Though details will not be shared publicly in this moment to avoid on necessary harm, we are available to discuss them privately for those seeking clarity. 07:30.681 --> 07:39.347 [SPEAKER_01]: Pastor Graham refused to remove his sons from staff, which was perceived by the board as partiality and a failure to uphold biblical accountability. 07:39.607 --> 07:51.875 [SPEAKER_00]: By recently reported that on September 8th, 2025, former Liberty Christian School Principal and Associate Pastor Derek Kettner announces resignation, citing financial and ethical issues. 07:52.295 --> 07:59.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Elite copy of the resignation letter, tended by Kettner, began circulating shortly after it was sent to church leadership. 07:59.860 --> 08:04.863 [SPEAKER_00]: It says in part, it is with a heavy heart and much prayer and fasting that I'm writing this letter. 08:05.343 --> 08:15.509 [SPEAKER_00]: I've served the Lord and the people of Liberty Baptist Church and the teachers, parents, and students of Liberty Christian School for 39 years have been a faithful and loyal employee. 08:16.129 --> 08:25.676 [SPEAKER_00]: However, just recently I have both seen and been made aware of some situations both financial and ethical that I believe are wrong and do not exemplify Christ. 08:26.296 --> 08:37.544 [SPEAKER_00]: He closes by saying, after much prayerful consideration, I feel it is in the best interest to myself, my wife and my family, to resign my position at Liberty Baptist Church, effective immediately. 08:37.984 --> 08:43.168 [SPEAKER_00]: Now the erosion of trust and gray as a leader began months earlier before all of this unfolded. 08:43.883 --> 08:53.767 [SPEAKER_00]: On May 20, 2025, Grace Brother-in-law, associate pastor and financial director Timothy Forty, died by suicide after an allegation of abuse surfaced. 08:54.247 --> 09:02.171 [SPEAKER_00]: The abuse took place during his time at a manual Baptist church in Longview, Texas, which is pastured by Bob Gray II, Scott Gray's Brother. 09:02.871 --> 09:11.659 [SPEAKER_00]: I interviewed Gray about this incident when it happened and he presented himself as the one willing to pursue truth and as having a desire for transparency. 09:12.319 --> 09:20.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Yet, Liberty's leadership has made it explicitly clear that in the wake of 4G's death, their confidence and Gray actually began to fracture. 09:21.026 --> 09:27.112 [SPEAKER_00]: By June 2025, he was already facing scrutiny over his handling of finances and staff accountability. 09:27.772 --> 09:35.076 [SPEAKER_00]: And on September 6, 2025, the Board of Trustees formally voted that Gray had disqualified himself from pastoral leadership. 09:35.556 --> 09:40.399 [SPEAKER_00]: They cited financial mismanagement, ethical concerns, and affiliated hold staff accountable. 09:40.979 --> 09:46.202 [SPEAKER_00]: They met a men's office to demand a resignation, offering a predetermined severance package. 09:46.742 --> 09:49.924 [SPEAKER_00]: Gray initially declined, but ultimately he resigned 09:51.845 --> 09:58.566 [SPEAKER_00]: In contrast to Gray's guarded farewell and vague statement, the church's remaining leadership has pledged transparency and reform. 09:58.846 --> 10:03.707 [SPEAKER_00]: They've even brought Derek Kettner, who previously resigned over these issues back onto the church staff. 10:04.307 --> 10:14.329 [SPEAKER_00]: They're also planning on an independent financial audit, consultation with the attorney David Gibbs III of the National Center for Life and Liberty, and establishing new oversight measures. 10:14.669 --> 10:18.850 [SPEAKER_01]: We are choosing transparency, but we are choosing accountability, 10:19.853 --> 10:21.396 [SPEAKER_01]: we're choosing integrity. 10:21.796 --> 10:31.653 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to close by saying that I reached out to both the church and pastor Scott Gray for comment on September 11th, 2025, but I have not yet received response from either party. 10:31.953 --> 10:34.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Prejudice podcast. 10:34.978 --> 10:40.528 [SPEAKER_00]: I will make any updates when necessary, but for now I will see you on a future episode.