[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the lower hands where your guides to xenomorphically induced terror on your host, David.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is our coverage of alien earth season one episode four observation.
[SPEAKER_04]: Given that we're running multiple shows right now, we're doing alien earth squadron style like we did with Andor.
[SPEAKER_04]: John is finishing up foundation with Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alicia is just getting into peacemaker with Jean Aaron.
[SPEAKER_04]: So check out the main feed for episodes for both of those shows.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what we've done is we've assembled international badass team of podcasters.
[SPEAKER_04]: And each week we sort of rotate co-hosts that sit with me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this week is kind of a special week because my squad mates are two of our community members.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're both lore masters, which is our top tier subscription.
[SPEAKER_04]: So gentlemen, thank you very much for your ongoing support.
[SPEAKER_04]: We really could do this without you and all of the subscribers, so thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: But today with me are Stuart and Brian, aka Dove-Septi-One, and Brian-Eighty-Sixy-Three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also known as Boise-All.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, indeed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do how you doing?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're across the pond.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Whether it's good, looking forward to getting stuck into, what was it great, like I said?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is your second time.
[SPEAKER_04]: You and I spoke when we did community fan reactions to Alien Romulus last year.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that was good.
[SPEAKER_04]: and then Brian, you're flashing here, you were on a three hour podcast with Alicia and actually your sister, you know, to talk about Gilded Age season, really a kind of a season three wrap up, you guys really covered one two and three altogether.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was an awesome experience.
[SPEAKER_08]: We just totally geeked out on drama, costume drama and history.
[SPEAKER_08]: Historian of the American presidency and American political history.
[SPEAKER_08]: So it's like this is this is awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: right in your sister Red Zippy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Those are your needs on your handles on discord.
[SPEAKER_04]: She has experienced with theater and costuming and design.
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you guys were like a perfect pair to talk with Alicia about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Great.
[SPEAKER_04]: So spoiler warning.
[SPEAKER_04]: for all things alien ever.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not very conversant in the books and graphic novels or video games but the movies and we're going to be just talking about it all.
[SPEAKER_04]: I also just want to get a little bit of a content warning too because
[SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about some really weird stuff with children being manipulated by adults.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if that is something that is very affecting for you, just want to be cognizant that we're going to be talking about those topics a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: And never mind the body horror because if you're watching this show, you're already okay with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: The next up next week, I'm going to be joined by Steve and Anthony from Properly Howard movie review, and I know we covered severance with them earlier this year, and I can only imagine that Steve and Anthony are super enjoying this season.
[SPEAKER_06]: So I'm so thankful to them about.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I am too.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be wicked.
[SPEAKER_04]: the recordings that we're doing are going to mostly on Fridays just because the way it works for everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: So a lot of other podcasts are getting there up their podcasts out the door sooner than we are.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to run the marathon and we're going to dive in a little deeper.
[SPEAKER_04]: Although we're not going to do three hours like I did with Mark and Ian last week, even though that three hours too bye.
[SPEAKER_04]: Today, we've got a stick to sort of two hours because we've got some life stuff that necessitate that we keep it around two hours.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we'll do our best.
[SPEAKER_04]: With that, let's move, let's just keep moving forward here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Feedback emails, AVP at thelowerhounds.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: Join us on our Discord.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have channels for all of the episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: The Discord thing for sub-channels is a little weird, so just shout out if you have any problems finding that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please, if you have something nice to say, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, we appreciate that, helps other people discover podcasts.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you like what we do, please subscribe.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're an independent podcaster.
[SPEAKER_04]: Add dollars are fickle and subscriptions really help keep the machinery of the whole system running.
[SPEAKER_04]: and it's just a great way to support the community too because we make sure that look after everyone in our.
[SPEAKER_04]: With all of that out of the way, let's get into our hot takes for episode four, do really, really quick your franchise background and then your hot takes for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I started my journey with Ali and when I was about twelve watching the original on a small black and white TV in my bedroom when I shouldn't be.
[SPEAKER_05]: Perfect age.
[SPEAKER_05]: Perfect age, very alien.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then of course, Aliens dropped as a hormonal adolescent that was just perfect combination of guns and alien goods.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, and then everything from that, dark horse, graphic novels, comics, games.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, great to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've seen a morphic action here's my jam.
[SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.
[SPEAKER_05]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: So hot takes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of stuff going on around the human consciousness in an artificial body.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love the whole point about are you still human or is the AI hallucinating the human?
[SPEAKER_05]: So, well, love that stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: The really starting to think set a some distinct differences between
[SPEAKER_05]: the three life forms that we have in terms of human type life forms.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we've got the side balls, which kind of seem like tanks, you know, things that hit hammer, you know, hammers that hit things on the head.
[SPEAKER_05]: Since you seem to be like smooth, they're like the assassins, they're just kind of like smooth.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the hybrids are just, they're not even in between.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're just something completely different.
[SPEAKER_05]: Childish behavior,
[SPEAKER_05]: really led by their emotions completely impulsive and chaotic, and just like craving approval all the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's just like so, so it's really good that they've set this distinct different classes almost of these intelligences.
[SPEAKER_05]: In this episode, it was like since and artificial life forms, can they harm humans?
[SPEAKER_05]: The limit is it made me think of Bishop in Aliens saying that the ash model was always twitchy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and that he had a table in a inhibitor.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm just wondering, are they actually got some hardware in them to stop them from harming humans?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because nips, yeah, scary as if.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a really interesting point too, because we know
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a little bit of media or industry news that Holly has multiple seasons in mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: They get green lit.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we know that alien and aliens, we know that the world is different.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we know that Holly is cognizant of those things.
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, we know whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't see cyborgs and other things.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what is it?
[SPEAKER_04]: What story world, what world building is he doing that he can then tell that story that you're talking about, which is what happened to the sidewalks?
[SPEAKER_04]: What happened to the hybrids, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot of flexibility there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the last, the last really hot take for me is just like, you know, we came for the Zeno and we've got deep stuff about existence, transhumanism, also, and then leading up to that end, which is...
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that was good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Really turning the alien into upside down completely.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, that's why he'll take.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, or real quick, your franchise background, and then your hot takes for the episode.
[SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I think we're all three of us are about the same generation.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I do not have a clear memory of watching alien in the movie theater, but
[SPEAKER_08]: As middle schoolers, we talked a lot about this movie because it was so novel, so scary.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I think it is part of a media blitz for Showtime HBO and Cinemax to say, hey, sign up for this new thing that we're doing on this new thing called cable.
[SPEAKER_08]: And you could watch Alien.
[SPEAKER_08]: And
[SPEAKER_08]: Bauderix, ten, and Star Trek the first movie.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, and that's how it got between my friends and that media blitz that how got into me watching the first movie, maybe a couple years later.
[SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_08]: And then I was like Stu.
[SPEAKER_08]: I was blown away by aliens.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think all three of us is aliens.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nineteen eighty six aliens are alien.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that like an alien?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it hit just at a particular time.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're us in our our our lives as young a young male.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Young male.
[SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_08]: They're
[SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: And from that, I've seen all the rest of the movies.
[SPEAKER_08]: I like Prometheus kind of filled in the lore.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's the really the only reasons.
[SPEAKER_08]: Like, where are these big aliens?
[SPEAKER_08]: What were they doing there in that first movie?
[SPEAKER_08]: But then, really, I only go back to alien aliens.
[SPEAKER_08]: I've seen them many, many times.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's my fallback.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Hot takes.
[SPEAKER_08]: So this is different, I think than what I expected, because this is just more than just your action thriller kind of movie experience I've been expecting.
[SPEAKER_08]: So you have all these episodes that you need to fill.
[SPEAKER_08]: So he has created such a rich background of everything that's going on in this world.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I really consider it a modern, fairytale with the three M's.
[SPEAKER_08]: quote unquote magic morality and monsters.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the themes that I've been looking for Maryland should.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you guys, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: We should.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: This this thing breaks.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we'll get very involved in a conversation with them.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I like the concept of magic morality and monsters.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a really interesting formulation.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: And some of the themes that you'll hear me talk about or write about is guardrails.
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_08]: And that is morality, scientific experimentation, corporations, and the theme of greed, which we haven't really touched a whole lot on.
[SPEAKER_08]: And then names.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: There are a lot of names in this episode and the insignificance of that.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: So good stuff.
[SPEAKER_08]: Lots of good stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And some great opportunity, especially with the names to do a little IP crossover and talk about some other things like Earthsea.
[SPEAKER_04]: Earthsea.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: I forgot.
[SPEAKER_04]: I neglected to mention earlier in your introductions that Brian, you're also our editor and chief for our blog.
[SPEAKER_04]: And still you've written a few pieces, your end or piece that you wrote just recently with reflections of your experience as a member of the British military and things that you experienced, that was a really big piece.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for writing this.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a good type of show that you think, and this is definitely one of those shows that got to sit on and chill.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I also neglected to mention that we kind of relate to you guys' loremaster brothers because you both signed up for the Patreon just about the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we have, there's sort of been this on background relationship going on.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the first time we've actually gotten you guys together on Mike.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, very, very cool opportunity.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's where our names are together when you read them off at very podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: Great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, just real quick, my heart takes and then we'll get into that episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think wait.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're both sort of alluding to this thing and something that is a new concept to me, which is called reader response theory.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm interested in a little bit in some literary criticism, so I'm sort of nibbling around the edges on some of those, because I'd like to think of us as a, yeah, we're a fan community and we're having fun within our team, but we're also thinking about and trying to apply
[SPEAKER_04]: stuff from the entertainment that watch.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in these different areas of our lives and the different shows that choose to cover that are nutritious.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes we cover just entertainment for the sake of it because you want to go and have a big Mac meal.
[SPEAKER_04]: But or some fast food or something, but other times you really want something nutritious.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's, I think to show
[SPEAKER_04]: The construction is you could watch it as entertainment and body horror and action.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you want it, there are deeper layers going on here that we're going to get into, especially in this episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I find that really fascinating.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a very hard thing to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's very hard thing to create art that is entertaining as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a balance there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And for me, one of the ways that I relate to art is
[SPEAKER_04]: if something is making me think, and I have a response.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've got two or three blog posts have written in my computer.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I have, oh, I should do a little video breakdown of this and that, like, I'm just spontaneously reacting to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that tells me that there's just like with severance earlier this year, that tells me that, wow, there's really something going on in this show.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I find that great and it's entertaining at the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: So whether you're here for just the entertainment or if you're here for something that's a little bit deeper and you're having fun thinking about
[SPEAKER_04]: what Holly's putting out, then there's a whole world of stuff available for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting that you mentioned to magic along with the morality, because there's, well, and we'll talk about it, the Clark's third law, which has been, which was mis-attributed to asthma, but I believe it's intentional, but we'll get there.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll get there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I thought it was really interesting, because then boy K uses the word Alecazam, which is a magical incantation, you know, if you're stage musician, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I tried to find the etymology of the word.
[SPEAKER_04]: It seems maybe made up, but that he used it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I remember when we heard Moro talking to slightly the first time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, what magic is this, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: How magically?
[SPEAKER_04]: So not only is Hallie playing with Asimov's robotics laws and Clark's laws and the parable of the three wise monkeys,
[SPEAKER_04]: and loyalty and right and wrong, and would you help your friend, all of this stuff, he's also throwing magic in there as well, which is really fascinating.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think overall, and this episode really solidifies it for me, is that Holly is using philosophical inquiry as plot structure, the structure of the plot,
[SPEAKER_04]: is a philosophical inquiry into the nature of, you know, what is it to be human, you know, and what is morality and how do we, what happens when our human heart is in conflict for itself?
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, it's just a, it's a really, this is a, to me, this is a perfect, lorhound show.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, it's taking existing IE that we love.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's taking it into a new direction.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's then, at the same time, setting up all of these interesting queries into philosophy and morality and to, to the human existence.
[SPEAKER_04]: So,
[SPEAKER_04]: Chefs kiss so far.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's nearly, there's little nibbley things around the edge that, oh, well, why isn't there a safe word for this or what happened there?
[SPEAKER_04]: And to me, I'm happy.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got the right.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, yeah, just go on the right with those because the bigger things are, and it visually beautiful in the acting is, you know, hundred percent, hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's really quick circle back before we get into the scene by scene breakdown.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got a couple of notes just a circle back with.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have a note?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this your note here?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have a note?
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you have a note?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is this your note here?
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you have works in time?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I put down, I think it was probably because of the conversation last week.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it just made me think that, imagine, doesn't matter if you're cyborg, a synth or hybrid, your worldview is going to be very different to us, vanilla, high, high, most sapiens.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Think about if your perception is different and your worldview is different, are you the alien on Earth?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to plug something really quick.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a Sol and Asher albine or two writers and they have a platform website and called Heat Death.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they wrote a really interesting article called Orc is Man to Orc, which is based on an earlier thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think Wolf is Man is Wolf is Man to Wolf.
[SPEAKER_04]: But examining Orcs in relationship to humans in Tolkien's world, I have an interview that I'm just finishing up editing and we're going to be talking about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's a very interesting, that's the right along that same point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: from whose point of view are you looking at this story?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now we have, we didn't mean aliens have language?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'll talk a little bit.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'll bring that up in the particular episode of that.
[SPEAKER_08]: But I've been thinking about it even this morning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: About language.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then do you visit your note again, too?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, all of these are unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_04]: including the ball, that's that you paste it into the other industry.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I mean,
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got a whole, you can't see this, but he's got a whole blog post about this.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the presence of the East India company model.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I have one little, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_04]: But we know that in Aliens, Gorman has a US flag flag patch on, you know, patch on as uniform.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, bring us to that point.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I was just thinking again, has something happened in the time that Morrow left Earth and back again, where cyborgs are feared or reviled?
[SPEAKER_05]: I bounced on episode two when the SNR team had him at the elevator.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was a real tensing up and a real, he's a cyborg.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm just wondering if something's happened in the world, you know, that maybe cyborg rose up, who knows, but just wondering something there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, this was a comment, I think, on the podcast last week, about the different life forms to the all come from the same planet.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm saying no, just because I also say no.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just because that quote from the exec in Aliens, Baron Rock, no indigenous life.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I picked up because I've picked up and I can't remember the specific references, but a couple times in this season, they've talked about the Majino's mission and it seemed like they went to World as opposed to World.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and I also wonder is Wale and the only company that is bringing specimens.
[SPEAKER_08]: right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: These other companies maybe are doing space stuff.
[SPEAKER_08]: They have spaceships, but this this may be not only off books, but it's like under the desk and a floor board on the floor, you know, it's like way off book.
[SPEAKER_08]: And you'll wonder if other companies are doing the same gathering species or not, just just a thought.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's an interesting point because when if we're running up to the point where the five
[SPEAKER_04]: where national governments arise again to take back control from the five.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that part of the storyline?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because doesn't Burke, Burke and Ripley talk about getting a species back through quarantine.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we know that I believe the lore of the world is that way, the Newtonny as emerged company is the oldest of the five.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so they really went out to space where some of the other companies, I think lynch is the young, lynch and prodigy are the youngest.
[SPEAKER_04]: And somebody else has the moon, I forget all the details.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, I think you bring a really interesting point there, Brian, that how did what's going on with Waelan Utani in space exploration?
[SPEAKER_04]: And did they're mucking about in the universe?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you'd be their own, they're own downfall in the control of the earth.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but no guardrails.
[SPEAKER_08]: Whoops.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, guardrails.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Someone online made a really great comparison to some drawings that David did in Covenant of altered flora and fauna.
[SPEAKER_05]: And two images that they were put online, they're striking resembling to T. S. L. S. and D. Plumbicare.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, perhaps it is a not, T.S.L.S.
[SPEAKER_04]: is the image and plumber care is the kind of plant thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm just wondering whether there was a little not.
[SPEAKER_05]: to what came before the covenant.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but really, I think in world has wailing to Tarny, been diligent in following up on certain distress calls.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, of course, covenant put out a distress call.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that gets in those whole thing around covenant and prometius.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, he said he's not actively using those plot points.
[SPEAKER_04]: but it's hard to do anything in the alien universe without having echoes or shadows of those two movies mixed into your, those that's a bad mix metaphor.
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, there are effects of those movies that even if you're not directly using them indirectly, they're gonna fill up, they can still pull from stuff.
[SPEAKER_08]: And we're storytelling.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: And these are two most popular of the Safranchise.
[SPEAKER_08]: So a lot of people who are watching this are gonna have some background on that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Damn, if you go into the LV-IV-II-II-II subreddit.
[SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: Almost damn near half of their comments, you know, in between, like, say, the show or, you know, Ron and I was just like, it's all about forgiveness and covenant, and then they didn't go, yeah, people don't, can't let it go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, okay, now we're gonna get into your point, your foolish point, David, where you said, but Goldman's got a US flag and he's a colonial Marine, so what's happened?
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'm not gonna rehash what Luke said, because Luke nailed it with the Eastern India Company model, but there was some crucial things that happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the British government re-asserted control gradually for a number of acts of parliament.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was about re-establishing government control of political policy.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what that eventually did is break the commercial monopoly of the East India Company.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then it just ended up becoming almost like a managing agency for British government in India.
[SPEAKER_05]: So
[SPEAKER_05]: government started to reassert control over an extra governmental entity that was effectively doing its own thing within one of its territories.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now we've got examples in the modern world of you know private military contractors doing the work of government effectively through their own forces.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's definitely lots and lots of allusions
[SPEAKER_05]: to the way the companies operate in the world, balian, to what we've got in real world.
[SPEAKER_05]: But to answer your question or a possible answer to your question is, if we think about alien earth era, we've already know there's been a series of wars, big five step in to fellow power vacuum, they become quasi-governmental entities, they've got their own territories, their own forces, etc.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've seen that and we even get an illusion to almost a cancel of five.
[SPEAKER_05]: who come together so that
[SPEAKER_05]: We could then see a transition period, which comes after Alien Earth, perhaps between Alien and Aliens, where stability starts with turning populations, start recovering, traditional nation states, really want to assert their own authority again.
[SPEAKER_05]: But rather than displacing those corporations, they just integrate them into a new hybrid model.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you fast forward to aliens.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's matured.
[SPEAKER_05]: You've got traditional military structures like the colonial marines.
[SPEAKER_05]: And those colonial marines are operating under a U.S.
[SPEAKER_05]: flag, but maybe other colonial marines operate under another nation's state flag.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that could work.
[SPEAKER_05]: You got a corporation's like, well, in Utah, and he's got so much influence because effectively, they've got all the contracts, the lobbying, they're embedded with government and of narrow embedded themselves with the military leadership as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you've got the colonial marines who are serving national interests and also corporate interests.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and it's very interesting when Gorman comes, or sorry, when Burke brings Gorman to Ripley's apartment.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's, there's this, why is the military, the serving of corporation in this way?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a, this is a, Hadley's hope is a corporate town.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do you need federal versus coming in to mess with your local politics?
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's interesting that there's, they're very interrelated as you're pointing out there.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and well-sets do, and I'll make three quick points.
[SPEAKER_08]: One, the five families reminds me of the five families in New York City of the mall.
[SPEAKER_05]: They were the five families.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Two, the civil service here in America is high.
[SPEAKER_08]: There's more contractors in the U.S.
[SPEAKER_08]: government now than civil service.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: I have a scholar associate who is studying that.
[SPEAKER_08]: And then the third thing is it's certainly for joint operations between the government and a company.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's a win-win.
[SPEAKER_08]: You get to save money.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're externalizing costs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: To a shared pool cost of taxes distributed.
[SPEAKER_04]: as opposed to damn that APC that just got blown up, that was a really expensive line item.
[SPEAKER_05]: But also accepting some political cost aren't you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, look, it wasn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't us.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was this really awful corporation over here.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you know, politicians love shift the blame.
[SPEAKER_06]: They do.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was hearing somebody talk about SpaceX and NASA.
[SPEAKER_04]: and how with the space now, we don't have a tolerance for NASA and the government to take losses, but space XQN.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's an inversion of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting that the interplay between public and private here, there's a lot cycling back and forth between each other.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why that's given you a possible
[SPEAKER_05]: through line David for what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I need some more nuance in it, so maybe if you could write up a blog post.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, go to our website, click on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'll make it out of that.
[SPEAKER_08]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_08]: I see a prequel series coming out.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's too.
[SPEAKER_08]: By the way.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we are thirty minutes into our intro.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's about.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we went forty five.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we're the end of marketing before we got to the episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to take a quick break.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then when we come back, we will get into our scene by scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we are back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, a couple of production details.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is episode four observation.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's written by Noahali and Bobak Esfer and Johnny directed by Uglah Hauk's daughter.
[SPEAKER_04]: She is an Icelandic director.
[SPEAKER_04]: Still experience, but still early in her career.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's directing episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: This one four and six.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is our first go round with Noah Holly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she is being known for skin and avian noir among other things.
[SPEAKER_04]: Very atmospheric, very viby.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think she did excellent job on this episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Both of you guys are a lot of lives.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, quite a lot.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: And good bar bourbon.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I was really looking forward to seeing episode six from her and having a, yeah, there's a great opportunity for her career to really break into the American markets, especially to work with somebody like Noah Hawley, fifty eight minute runtime.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we're, I think we're going to try to focus a little bit more on the concepts rather than the individual chat details and stuff of this episode so that we sort of time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really quick into the warm open.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm calling it the warm open.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that works or not.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not a cold open and it's not, you know, a hot open.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in between somewhere.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have this ocean scene with the intercot and is this style of opening working for both of you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want you?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do like it because I picked up last week Ian's point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes you look at these that cold open and it's setting up what you're expecting to see in the in the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: This isn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just giving you a couple of quick, you know, tasters of what came before.
[SPEAKER_05]: The music that opens every episode just brings you straight in.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's so true for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just like, yeah, keep doing that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: Perfect to do it.
[SPEAKER_08]: Brian?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's unusual.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'll admit it again, exciting expectations.
[SPEAKER_08]: I wasn't expecting these kinds of openings, but they do, I think they do work.
[SPEAKER_08]: I kind of like them.
[SPEAKER_08]: They said reset your expectations.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, oh, something different is going to happen here.
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm kind of like getting a little closer to the TV set.
[SPEAKER_08]: And so this ocean didn't make sense until we had the song, ocean size.
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's back moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't pick that up.
[SPEAKER_08]: So we now have a book end.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's perfect.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we have a book end and we have a call back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Casey doesn't have scary dreams.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's take a look.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing bad in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: See?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you could just try to be like her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, please.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't have bad dreams because she's just a piece of plastic.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we have this great callback with a doll's head to the nineteen eighty six movie aliens.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, there's no mistaking that those two things are connected.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what what he's winking at I don't know what the doll's head has to do with this.
[SPEAKER_04]: With any of this show you know, but it's so rich.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's so of odd.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you look down?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, make it your jaws.
[SPEAKER_05]: When you plopped it into the outline, I was like, yeah, I'm glad someone else really got that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it's the words.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I just had that call back to Kirch, you know, early episodes, where he's basically, you know, he's telling the hybrids why you, you know, have no fear.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why are you scared?
[SPEAKER_05]: You're not an animal.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have a machine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there is that animal machine, fear, lack of fear, power docks coming in.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the words from you,
[SPEAKER_05]: She doesn't have bad dreams.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's a piece of plastic, but we know, don't we?
[SPEAKER_05]: We know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Someone has bad dreams.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, has.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it wraps around to the big Winston nods of due Android's dream of electric sheep.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Blade Runner in reverse.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Kears with his white hair.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's just playing all over this playground.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I just kept looking at this this doll's head and the problem, I wish we had more of a context of the size, but it looked big to me.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I wonder if like they were during this whole synth project or a hybrid project, they threw some trash out and was that ahead for a model for one of a synth?
[SPEAKER_08]: or hybrid.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm dying with the fact that this is the same universe as Blade Runner and if you think about Blade Runner in one of the scenes, it's the toys, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_05]: The toys are really early.
[SPEAKER_05]: Early mechanics, early automatons.
[SPEAKER_05]: So hey, what was the toy maker?
[SPEAKER_04]: What was the toy maker's name I forget now?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to get in trouble.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't know.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a lot of stuff in our head.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's move on.
[SPEAKER_04]: For seeing, oh good, it's the brother.
[SPEAKER_04]: As Arthur and Dame Sylvia consider Wendy's condition, boy K arrives to further investigate.
[SPEAKER_04]: Boy K dismisses Kirsch and Dame Sylvia.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Arthur turns Wendy's hearing back on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not only can she hear the xenomorphs talking across multiple high frequencies, but she can also the sounds.
[SPEAKER_04]: Joe and Boy K argue about what's best for a win.
[SPEAKER_04]: One of the things that I was really struck with
[SPEAKER_04]: in this scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: This scene packs in a lot and Brian and you and I were talking prior to the episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: This episode packs a lot of stuff up high concept stuff up in the front and then it sort of gets into just simple or action stuff later on and pays it off.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so in this scene, one of the things that really caught me was windy in the middle between boy K and her brother Joe, which is later mirrored by slightly between
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, not slightly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yes, slightly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Between Kirch and Moro.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we had these angel devil type things happening, you know, on either shoulder and whether who's an angel and who's a devil and who's neither nor.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think is an interesting question, but Brian, what did you, what are some big things that you're taking from this particular scene?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, what I noted was Wendy saying, I can speak for myself.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I think she may play into the fact that
[SPEAKER_08]: We are facing, she is facing, like many other people, a complex moral situation.
[SPEAKER_08]: And because of my brain, which I'll talk more about as we go through, that my lack of experience as a child.
[SPEAKER_08]: The fact that I can't focus on complex reasoning, I need to take a breath.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, back off.
[SPEAKER_08]: I can speak for myself.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I need to reset because it's just too much.
[SPEAKER_08]: So that was one of the things that I really perked up about when I saw that.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's part of Wendy's journey and I believe I was trying to do a little reading about the characters from Peter Pan as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Another one half big blog post idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he's there one to one relationships in the book and it doesn't seem like it because nibs is supposed to be the upbeat one in the books, but in this is clearly not.
[SPEAKER_04]: But part of Wendy's journey as I understand it.
[SPEAKER_04]: is that she's transitioning from being a kid into a young adult.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we see her kick some underwear or something out later embarrassment and she talks about her breasts and you know like what these things are weird.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this idea that Jo and her have been separated for a long time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's grown up and she's, you know, she's a bigger kid now.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's more, has more agency.
[SPEAKER_04]: She doesn't need her big brother managing her.
[SPEAKER_04]: End your own.
[SPEAKER_05]: Doove.
[SPEAKER_05]: I picked up on when Wendy was vocalizing the, the, the alien.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, especially on the same watch.
[SPEAKER_05]: It seems to have a really unsettling effect on the humans in the room.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's a little bit of backing away and there's some tension there.
[SPEAKER_05]: not curly and not another character.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which we can talk about, but it was a theory of yours day.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, really made me feel because when I saw it for the second time, I'm like, okay, hmm, and what's different about Wendon?
[SPEAKER_04]: She says they picked me, but we know that mechanically,
[SPEAKER_04]: She is picking up on higher frequencies because when she's in the lab testing and she's raising her head, she can hear sounds that the other ones can't.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what's different about her chat?
[SPEAKER_04]: What's different about her process?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: And being the first one who knows, I might have tweaked it on the second third fourth go around.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So about that too, I had the subtitles on for the goes captioning on in my second watch.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's described as cheering, cheering, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is the proper description for what crickets and other insects do.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's, yeah, rubbing their legs together to make these sounds.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you know, what I was thinking about it more and again, this, another reason why we take time, right, for Friday because we can percolate on these things.
[SPEAKER_08]: I, I equated it.
[SPEAKER_08]: I thought it was like discussion.
[SPEAKER_08]: These are, is this a animal call or language, but now I'm thinking about dolphins.
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay, dolphins have more sophisticated communication system, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: They use clicking, whistles, body language.
[SPEAKER_08]: This to me is more alien than maybe just that a language, because language is pretty sophisticated.
[SPEAKER_08]: But it's more than maybe just an animal call.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I'm wondering if it's like a dolphin-like intelligence.
[SPEAKER_04]: That could be
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it is, they do say that it's happening on multiple frequencies.
[SPEAKER_04]: Later on, we did that piece of world building as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: You've also, you've also got, though, if you think about it in Aliens, it's a talk about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a hive species.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Think about animals.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Chira, they just love their antennae.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they use body language in front of their bones as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and it goes into our hubris as a species that if it doesn't, within our vision, which is what's interesting about the, you know, on T, the predator species, because they're seeing in a different spectrum of light.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not hearing and seeing certain things, so we assume that it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: exist where, you know, elephants use infrasound.
[SPEAKER_04]: They use low frequency vibrations to communicate with each other over distance both through the ground and through just they do this thing where they push into the ground a little bit and they can send sort of sound waves down into the ground, but they can also just be standing around and just rumbling and making noises that that go just in same with whales, you know, whales, you know, salinity and temperature factors to
[SPEAKER_04]: send their song much further.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a whole group of stuff going on that, I think, yeah, we're just too arrogant to species.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Which, okay, so now let's talk about boy K, here a little bit, you know, he's always ahead of us.
[SPEAKER_08]: There's that E, E rating people.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would assume that a lot of people in our community would have picked up on the misattribution of the Arthur C. Clark three laws, and that it wasn't as a mob who said this.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to talk about that in a second.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to just put out where I'm standing on this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Holly and the writers are well smart enough to have not made this a mistake.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you take it a step, the next step, an obvious answer is, okay, boy K is, you know, he brisked, you know, he brisked it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that the right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Can I say that?
[SPEAKER_04]: He's full of hubris.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, okay, that's true, and that works.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if we take it another step forward and get into a meta commentary, what is Holly doing by putting that line knowing that that is going to flag for a bunch of us?
[SPEAKER_04]: that that is what's going on there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So then I went and I looked and I read all three laws and I read a little bit about what Clark is talking about here.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is published first in nineteen sixty two and his book profiles of the future and inquiry into the limits of the possible.
[SPEAKER_04]: The first law, when a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right.
[SPEAKER_04]: When he states that something is impossible, he's very probably wrong.
[SPEAKER_04]: Clark's law number two, the only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way path them into the impossible.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the third law is insufficiently advanced technology is instinctable from magic.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the magic thing gets throughout pulled out all the time as a standalone to just go, oh fantastic technology.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think what's really interesting here is that all three of these laws in operation talk about human hubris and our ability when we think we know something that actually blinds us to what's possible.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so there's something going on here with this conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then later there's this conversation about the three wise monkeys.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is like something I've been working on for the last couple of days trying to work these.
[SPEAKER_04]: This intersection, he's almost creating this X, Y axis.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, between this proverb and these laws about technology.
[SPEAKER_04]: thoughts, reactions?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think that's, I'm glad you kind of flesh this out, David, because what I'm, what I'm kept picking up is that this is hallmark of science, because you don't want to think about the impossible.
[SPEAKER_08]: You want to try all solutions.
[SPEAKER_08]: You want to experiment in different ways
[SPEAKER_08]: breaking through old patterns, old ideas, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: This is a hallmark of science throughout human history.
[SPEAKER_08]: So you don't want to come in and say that's impossible.
[SPEAKER_08]: you want to have yourself with no limitations to create innovation.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I think that is where boy K is coming from, where the kid promised something.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: Where, of course, I'm going to have no rules.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to do whatever I want and to push it.
[SPEAKER_08]: So that really sets the stage for the scientific mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's very interesting about because Arthur starts to chave against that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Later when he talks with Dame Sylvia, he's like, this isn't science.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Dame Sylvia, and but there's interesting there because they're doing a three wise monkey thing, but that's we'll get there later.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, their boy K is just breaking things and shaking things up, which is an interesting commentary on our current tech brologarchy that's existing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, he's, again, hardly using philosophical inquiry as plot structure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have any thoughts on that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, this is what I love about shows like this and how different people look at things.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that that the way you've just taken us through there is phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's making me think about things in a very different way.
[SPEAKER_05]: However, may a bit surf if sometimes I've already said this is not our world.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do think it is at least in some ways maybe the world of Blade Runner.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, our time now, we're already in the stars, we've already started colonizing, there's already been some wars.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just think it's another world, another version.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, actually in this version, maybe as I'm of made the quote, not Arthur Seekler.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, really shallow.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very
[SPEAKER_04]: later in this episode, changes his name to Isaac in taking the name of the naming thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: The show is like one of those millfoil like thousand later paintings.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we throw in something like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think when a hostile alien species decides to speak, one needs to ask why.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the huge open door that we have no idea what Holly has been looking at.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what is going on with the xenomorphs?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I made a note that just what I like is you get this, you know, this, this is like this is moving the story on.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's something here, there's something important that we're being told, you know, through the vision, obviously, the acting, this is something important.
[SPEAKER_05]: Listen,
[SPEAKER_05]: pay attention.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then Holy moves to a shot of Careley who's effing up the machinery.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because boy can't hold her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Go away.
[SPEAKER_05]: Put some buttons and turn some nods.
[SPEAKER_05]: But she did.
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's what.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's like you just get that little moment of clean humor.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is that little business.
[SPEAKER_05]: Take, take you, take you forward.
[SPEAKER_05]: drop something differently and then let's move you forward again.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and he's really playing with the form same thing with the outro music and other things.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's really thought about how we're affected, how we as the viewers are engaging with this media and he's playing with the forms and the structures.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's twisting our knobs and flipping our buttons.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to have to talk about Adrian Edmondson doing it because I got to hear what your reactions are.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we'll get there when he and Joe talk later because I for us Americans for us, Yanks.
[SPEAKER_04]: No clue.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's a pretty cool thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad Luke was on that first one to call it out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alright, are you mad at me?
[SPEAKER_04]: Back in our room, Wendy shows Joe her charging station and the siblings share a word.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wendy is worried that Joe is mad at her for wanting to listen to aliens and Joe and Wendy unpack the complex feelings around their loss of each other and their father.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to start us off with that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, for me, I think what I picked up from from from that scene really is there's this definitely a wedge starting to emerge between the siblings.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was getting that very much towards the end, you know, Joe's trying to reconnect with his sister.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's been trying to do that for a long time, but now they've come together.
[SPEAKER_05]: They are different people.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's definitely I think, you know, and you get a bit more late on in the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's why that's what I got from this scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's that year.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not going to be all sunshine and rainbows between Wendy and Hermit.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's this, again, is it an old adage rate?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's an other observation that
[SPEAKER_04]: siblings' experience, their families different.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's one family, but are you a eldest, a middle, a younger, how big, you know, did parents stay together, were there any deaths?
[SPEAKER_04]: This kind of stuff, we all take a different perspective from our experiences family, and so Joe has this one experience in these memories of their father that she doesn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: But she lived a long time without him and had to base the thread of her own mortality as a terminally ill child and then Joe went off to fight war.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they're very different people in the end.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, are you, do you have siblings?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, I have Red Zippy.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I got stuck with my setup.
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, but, you know, our family, I'm thinking about the terminal illness, the baggage that goes into the scene before that, you know, we've had family deaths and, um,
[SPEAKER_08]: And you experience a differently, I also wonder, you know, the war was going on, but, you know, were her parents, Marcie's parents, their parents, protecting, their parents, their parents, yeah, yeah, are they protecting hermit?
[SPEAKER_08]: By saying, you just don't worry, we'll take care of Marcy.
[SPEAKER_08]: You just do what you need to do, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: And then there's Marcy who say, I want to see my brother.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm dying.
[SPEAKER_08]: So there's probably there's a lot of emotional baggage going into this into the scene for sure.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we get those little world-building drops.
[SPEAKER_04]: What happened to their dad?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, if we can see you and I couldn't see our dad, well, okay, what happened to dad?
[SPEAKER_04]: boys fighting in a war on the other side of the planet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, what war was that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or yeah, hello.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, uh, uh, uh, you fought with, you know, General Kenobi, you fought with my father and the Clone Wars.
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
[SPEAKER_04]: Clone Wars?
[SPEAKER_04]: Nineteen seventy seven.
[SPEAKER_04]: Clone Wars, General.
[SPEAKER_04]: Excuse me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell the war?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's beautiful little drops like that to just ignite our, our interest in our passion into tell me more about this world.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_08]: And a war we know we can's families, society and governments.
[SPEAKER_08]: So it's like, this is just like boom, this is a big big by drawing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, in just a lot.
[SPEAKER_08]: Just a line.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_04]: And notice the three wise monkeys are over her charging station.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Standard decor I guess is place.
[SPEAKER_04]: All sort of bed bathroom not bed bath but bed board or bed bath and booze.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything else about this scene?
[SPEAKER_08]: I mentioned like the kids bed look at the her bed looks like a kids bed and they got a little Toys sub-dannables on top.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, very utilitarian Yeah, and if people are interested the movie they're watching is ice age continental drift the number four in the series So my kids went through a lot of ice age.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_08]: We got to ice age with us and then okay
[SPEAKER_04]: Fair enough.
[SPEAKER_04]: We never made it in there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now we're on the K-pop team in Hunters.
[SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you believe it's the number one movie in the United States right now?
[SPEAKER_08]: It is.
[SPEAKER_04]: They dropped a weekend showing kind of as a sing-along and sort of this off-handed way.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure why not.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it blew the doors off the box.
[SPEAKER_05]: On my twenty-five year old door, I say, you got to go and watch it.
[SPEAKER_05]: She says it's really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Really?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe out of this weekend.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's on Netflix and at least, yeah, though.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: The mis-education of Arush Singh, this is a brace of episodes starting with boy K reading another passage from Peter Pan, which then follows a sort of back and forth between two scenes here.
[SPEAKER_04]: So making things right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Slightly finds an isolated, oh wait, oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Slightly finds an isolated place, so he and Moro can talk in private, neither remembering nor knowing that a since system is being constantly recorded.
[SPEAKER_04]: Moro continues both his moral education and manipulation, slightly introducing concepts of restitution and loyalty.
[SPEAKER_04]: Moro learns slightly's real name.
[SPEAKER_04]: Real quick, the voiceover, the book,
[SPEAKER_04]: that reading the boy case, reading Peter Pan, the Neverland had been make believe in those days, but it was real now, and there were no nightlights, and it was get darker every moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Of all, delectable islands, the Neverland is the snugest and most compact, not large and sprawly, with tedious distances between one adventure, another,
[SPEAKER_04]: But nicely crammed.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you play at it by day with the chairs and tablecloths, it is not the least alarming.
[SPEAKER_04]: But in the two minutes before you go to sweety, that's why there are nightlights.
[SPEAKER_04]: some serious meta commentary by Holly about what is coming for the back has the perfect placement of this people are going like oh boy gay you know he's just pop it off with a microphone but no no no no when Holly does this stuff it is a big flag that he's waving in our faces to pay attention to what he's saying and what he's about to do definitely yeah exactly yeah yeah it's
[SPEAKER_08]: It's just amazing.
[SPEAKER_08]: I wouldn't have thought that he would pick Peter Pan.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's like, what?
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: How do you how do you define that?
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's brilliant.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's talk a little bit about slightly in Moro here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Babu C. Say continues to just devour this role.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's so good on the superimposing of the shots, the way that he, they're, Holly really beautifully, beautifully using the language of, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to pick us up with any of your thoughts on slightly and moral?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, moral content is absolutely creep festive of grooming slightly and it's just, you know, the right and the wrong of it and the way that he's manipulating slightly through the conversation.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's, yeah, it's just creepy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, I thought it was interesting that
[SPEAKER_04]: We talk about restitution and loyalty within this fear of morality.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you picked up on some of those thoughts.
[SPEAKER_08]: The ethics like one come after the other because ethics is the question what I ought to do and the restitution is the possibly is the plan.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's the action.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: So you're thinking about while slightly sitting on the rock, he is thinking about this complex answer to this question.
[SPEAKER_08]: Moro has the answer, he has the action, he has the restitution, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: So it's interesting that they use these kinds of words very specifically because
[SPEAKER_08]: As my friend, I'll tell you what you need to do.
[SPEAKER_08]: You need to get the egg, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: And slightly, you know, I'll talk, there's quickly as I can about when I'm looking at, you know, when we first started the series,
[SPEAKER_08]: It was very interested in what's the difference between a adult brain and a child brain.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, and the blog post about this.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and I do and I encourage people to go see it, read it and take a look at it.
[SPEAKER_08]: I had some in-house help.
[SPEAKER_08]: My wife is a neurologist.
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_08]: So, yes.
[SPEAKER_08]: So, we sat down and we had a long conversation about this.
[SPEAKER_08]: If you're watching the show,
[SPEAKER_08]: she watched the first two episodes and she was very intrigued by what she was seeing as well about this and what I picked up was that slightly has some you know there's certain guardrails right about being safe as you get older experience appropriate what is appropriate behavior right
[SPEAKER_08]: And he has some of that slightly has some of that from his parents, but not all of it, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Because he's what may be ten, eleven, some around in that.
[SPEAKER_08]: So yes, so he's struggling from the limited experience.
[SPEAKER_08]: World is small for that.
[SPEAKER_08]: And he's struggling to apply and understand this moral complexity because he hasn't had that guidance from parents and friends that you do when you grow up to become an adult.
[SPEAKER_04]: And these different phases of development.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's coming into a different phase right now and only now is his mind being able intellectually to be able to start to grapple with these concepts, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: And if you don't have the kind of guardrails of parents in upbringing and tradition and even culture,
[SPEAKER_08]: You're lost and lost boys, lost boys exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: He is lost and he's taking kind of truth also by kind of face value.
[SPEAKER_08]: My morals telling you, here's the truth.
[SPEAKER_08]: Here's your most situation.
[SPEAKER_08]: Boom, give me an egg.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I thought it was just fascinating.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we get into the whole naming of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Roost thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, do I think you got to note here about Ursula?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I just like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I jumped and made it to Earth, see?
[SPEAKER_04]: Magic.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this goes to your point, Brian about magic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I've, I've three.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've stayed in the actual bit from the book, which is who knows a man's name.
[SPEAKER_05]: Holds that man's life in his keeping Perfect, that's a perfect life for what's just down You know, so yeah, it was just like how do it?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll too late.
[SPEAKER_05]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_05]: You've seeded your power You've seeded your power tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and of course then yeah, we do see the effect of that later up Yeah
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I was really taken by a couple of different things, villain or hero.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, of course, we're all heroes in our own story.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then this question of loyalty, loyalty to want, to whom loyalty to a company, loyalty to a grandmother who passed away while you were on a deep space mission.
[SPEAKER_04]: loyalty to your friends later, slightly chooses loyalty to his friends.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll stand up for my friends and my family.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to do unimaginable things to protect my mother and my brothers.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Holly is laying a trap for us for slightly and for us by creating this framework of, and we're going to get into the three wise month here in a second.
[SPEAKER_04]: but of putting slightly into this position of what is right and wrong in this moment, in this situation.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you know what?
[SPEAKER_05]: As soon as you were talking about that, it just made me think, what's motivating Morrow?
[SPEAKER_05]: He's had to do terrible things.
[SPEAKER_05]: He said that, I've had, you know, he's sacrificed people that he may have considered friends.
[SPEAKER_05]: What is motivation?
[SPEAKER_05]: at the beginning right when he he doesn't unlock the door he seems to be on like a sing you know the mission I must get these specimens to you tarny yeah just that it feels very transactional
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, but you're also thinking back to the model, the mob.
[SPEAKER_08]: Loyalty is everything in the mob.
[SPEAKER_08]: So you will kill people for loyalty to your dog.
[SPEAKER_08]: So maybe it is.
[SPEAKER_08]: There's some of that in there.
[SPEAKER_08]: Loyalty is a driving force in his life because that's all he has now.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is the search and rescue team say the two guys I get that he ties up?
[SPEAKER_04]: The one guy says to him brother, you can't leave us here like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not your brother.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: His loyalty is with, and then I think what's also interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's more always so fascinating that he says, you know, there is a degree, I picked up a degree of self-loving about his condition.
[SPEAKER_04]: and that he was idolizing the sense in a way that he could then, could he discard or not to sense the hybrids?
[SPEAKER_04]: Could he somehow discard the worst of a man?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is the worst of a man?
[SPEAKER_04]: Fear, doubt, self-worth, when you don't feel that you have a sense of self-worth for yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can have all kinds of circumstances in your life, but it's really, again, if you have an inward negative view of yourself, that to me is worse than any external.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, okay, be careful there.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is one of those things that could be the worst of our condition is when we are harsh to ourselves.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: He's a very bad place as, you know, our communities and as picked up where he's lost just about everything.
[SPEAKER_08]: So there, he's, he's basically unmoored, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: He has his guardrails are, are off.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, did we learn that he's a, he was a street urchin?
[SPEAKER_04]: He was picked, like, that's the sense that I have that he lived on the streets and somehow he got picked up by Utani, which is his loyalty to the grandmother, maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because when we see him walking through the street, he's able to snatch food and phone expertly without a second thought.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, look, food.
[SPEAKER_05]: Without pivots, well, insert your point there and Brian.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's probably his loyal, he's a loyal soldier to you, you, you, Tony, but grandmother, you, Tony.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's pick up the next scene here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know why there's three monkeys on your wall?
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: Knees are real, sees no evil, kick as arrow, hears no evil, he was arrow, speaks no evil.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're figures, and we're just teaching about avoiding evil thoughts and deeds, but over the years they've come to represent something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what that is?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's an interesting thing that he's doing here, because he's highlighting the fact that the three wise monkeys have a dual meeting, depending on your point of view.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in one sense, it's about disciplining the mind to not letting yourself think and engage with negative thoughts.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're kind of trying to train yourself and not engage with self-doubt and those kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then in the Western context, it's about ignorance to stuff, which I think plays into Arthur and Sylvia's conversation later.
[SPEAKER_04]: So again, here, when we put this next to Clark's three laws, there's some really interesting stuff going on.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I also just have to throw out that I think it's very fascinating that slightly is hearing evil.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, what were you picking up in this conversation?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you know, it's one of those things where I like what you said about
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, the Buddhist, it's like a meditation, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: You're pushing away all thoughts.
[SPEAKER_08]: Your discipline, your discipline, your mind exactly to push away all these thoughts.
[SPEAKER_08]: But then the West has corrupted that to loyalty or back to loyalty again, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Are you going to be loyal to your friends to your company or and basically do what you think, well, I'm, you know, what I'm thinking you're doing, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: I have a question because I think it was right before the scene and you know, because we talked about discord about what does Kirch know about Moro, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: We know he's listening in, but I think in that right that scene right before he's on the computer, Kirch is at the computer and he's hearing slightly
[SPEAKER_08]: I think he can hear Moro too, because his voice comes not natural that the way slightly hears it, but through like a computer speaker.
[SPEAKER_08]: And it's like, oh, well, if he can hear Moro and slightly, you know, that's interesting, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: So he kind of knows what's going on.
[SPEAKER_08]: He has more information, more data.
[SPEAKER_08]: So then he could play off and make sure he could be that counter.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a couple of interesting mechanical things happening here.
[SPEAKER_04]: One, as we see him looking through the recording of slightly, so that's one piece of visual language there where we have the sort of two round vernacular vision things.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then the flashback
[SPEAKER_04]: of the communication device on Slightly's next is in full-color, full-screen, so Holly is taking us out of one frame of reference into another frame of reference, and then he superimposes Kirch's face.
[SPEAKER_04]: through that seeing of the communications thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, to me, that signaling that Cares' theory is, ah, that's how he did, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm putting it together now.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then he throws Moro's words back at him in this situation, hurt or cause others to be hurt.
[SPEAKER_04]: Moro says that to the kids when they're by the eggs.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then Moro says careful and slightly stiffens.
[SPEAKER_04]: And don't tell me that Kears didn't fully get that in that moment, you know, can Kears see, you know, can he see your heart rate?
[SPEAKER_04]: Can he see your open on your skin?
[SPEAKER_04]: Can he see your nervous system and your physiology reacting?
[SPEAKER_04]: Your eyes dilate.
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: Pure sciences.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a game, obviously.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cash is playing a game, just didn't know what it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got a little sense that actually he was seeding some of these words too slightly, or messes away of, you know, I'm trying to think, slightly is a little kid.
[SPEAKER_05]: Who just wants you to do?
[SPEAKER_04]: Good thing he wants to play cricket here.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's cricket knee pads on there.
[SPEAKER_04]: What all back there?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the curse is almost like feeding some words, which to a maybe a slightly older child or an adolescent would kind of tip you off all shit.
[SPEAKER_05]: Daddy knows what I've been up to.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been and I've been about half.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was just, I can't quite see.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thinking is curse trying to say to slightly, you know, I kind of know what's going on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it doesn't, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, slightly can't pick up on that cue.
[SPEAKER_04]: Say, it's one of those things where with the older kids, you can do a little teaching moment, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You can sort of set up exactly through the conversation.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and it just shows you, curse is not a parent.
[SPEAKER_08]: He doesn't sit down, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: He doesn't sit down with him and say, let's talk, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, he has no emotion.
[SPEAKER_08]: He's just a, you know,
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's so bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: I liked the line that you said there, you know, heard across others to be heard, because I just immediately clicked on as a must, where bot it laws.
[SPEAKER_04]: and isn't it interesting he's playing with as a mom and her in the same thing in the matter of minutes and he's miss attributing a quote to one to the other but then so that's to me that's part of the clue of like him waving these big semifur flags yeah pay attention because i'm i'm saying some things about this and i'm using philosophical inquiry as plot structure
[SPEAKER_04]: to pardon my French fuck with these characters.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_04]: And to see what they're going to do and how they're going to react and how would you react?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: What would you do in this situation?
[SPEAKER_04]: What are you going to do as a parent?
[SPEAKER_04]: What are you going to do as an individual?
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you loyal to your company or are you loyal to your family?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Are you going to swim with the fishes?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the mobs of Brian, that's really great.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love the mob analogies too, because of course now when we're dealing with some real world politics, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a very much of a gangster mentality that is being employed to
[SPEAKER_04]: to very, very, anyway, I don't want to go down that really, but it's really resonating with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And politics, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in same as Andor, resonate with, with all of us about politics.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not saying one thing or the other.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we are.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if, and if you don't like what we're saying, you can not listen to podcasts.
[SPEAKER_04]: And don't leave a nasty comment on that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have an apple podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Come on, guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: Get over it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, we're here for entertainment, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's yeah, okay, well, we're we're you could sign for a break.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and then when we get on, we'll start talking about image.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're back.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, glass half full, kid.
[SPEAKER_04]: Delay the sheep gets infected by the image.
[SPEAKER_04]: Enough said.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about this beautiful, this horror, the camera work and the music beautifully told this terrifying story.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do what were you picking up?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, straight away, the point about the music, you know, so just,
[SPEAKER_05]: There's little nods in there to alien and aliens and you just, it's that dread.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it wraps you up in the universe and what you say, you know something is bad's going to happen and oh God.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, T.S.L.S.
[SPEAKER_05]: is just, it's the little tendrils that come out of the hole and I read the on the production that where the sheep is backing away, that's a real sheep.
[SPEAKER_05]: because they wanted the reaction.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wanted a natural reaction from the sheep.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, oh, and then it just gets you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and they've shout out to the official part.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been really great.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're really compact episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they really provide a lot of great conversation and context.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this one they talk about, they had three sheep, the real sheep, and animatronic sheep.
[SPEAKER_04]: that could sort of turn and turn and do some stuff and then a CGI sheep.
[SPEAKER_04]: And boy, it was seamless.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wasn't it Brian?
[SPEAKER_08]: I just, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't tell.
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you kind of knew once the Mitch was in there and the pen was moving like that.
[SPEAKER_08]: So it's like, oh, yeah, that's probably, that's not clearly not a real sheep, but it's just amazing.
[SPEAKER_08]: And when I first saw the sheep, I thought of Dolly.
[SPEAKER_08]: the clone sheet in nineteen ninety six right yeah and then that spring present bill Clinton produced a memo saying and I quote the new technology of cloning raises profound ethical issues particularly with respect to possible use to clone humans which in this world probably humans can be cloned federal funds should not be used for cloning for human beings
[SPEAKER_08]: and this to me is another example of guardrails, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, okay, you're doing animal experimentation.
[SPEAKER_08]: You're doing human experimentation on cyborgs and hybrids and consciousness.
[SPEAKER_08]: Where's the guardrails, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: There's no, for this corporations, there's none, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: They do whatever they want to, bring in a sheep, see what happens.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, no, this is not good.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Arthur starts chafing itself.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's an important element of why he's reacting the way he does.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did either of you in your second watch or anything like that, slow down or look at the image and the way that they're.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: It work.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, like the eyes, like the, I think the first time the series sees the sheet, three eyes come together.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's seven segments.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you, if you freeze frame, you can see the pizza slices of the eye, which doesn't form one giant eye, it actually forms seven segments like pizza slices around.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I call.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if other people are counting differently, but I can just go to one until it's in.
[SPEAKER_05]: the, you know, the eye socket.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, of Dolly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: And it's like a, it's like a fly.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's just a world like a fly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just, um, when it went up on two, two legs, I just thought that that to me and me, I thought, is it, is it copying the behavior of one of crew on the
[SPEAKER_05]: Because we've had, we've had, you know, we've, we've had.
[SPEAKER_05]: Remember, in the first episode, we got some teas as didn't we have some of the crew members who'd been obviously killed by different species.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a very explicitly called out that not everybody died in the scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: When it went upon, so the first thing it did when it was confronted with other bipeds up on two legs.
[SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it was like, oh, this is, oh, I can't sustain this.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that was good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you also notice do that, that's spherical opening of the, yeah, it's a mirror that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, it's that, it's the, it's the virus effect.
[SPEAKER_04]: Read out of straight out of seventy nine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did they say because it's a sign as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, same.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That sort of metal, oiled metal, you know, sliding on.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's when Dallas is, you know, going through the air ducts and it closes behind it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, he's, holiest study disorder is using it very well.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: They talk about gamma waves.
[SPEAKER_04]: Actually, you should, Brian, be interesting to hear your wife's take on this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tudals, it's soon to be called the Isaac, talks about the wavy lines changing and that gamma waves are being, you know, are increasing in frequency and I just, just a quick internet search gamma waves are fast-brained waves with frequencies at thirty-two to a hundred hertz or higher.
[SPEAKER_04]: And like, and, and Kier's tells us what we need to know, that this is a peak cognitive state concentration, learning, complex decision-making, and one thing I thought was interesting that gamma oscillations are thought coordinate information across different regions of your brain.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a way that your brain signals to itself with some stuff.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: No, I agree.
[SPEAKER_08]: I think, you know, those kinds of sophisticated tests, brain tests.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure in neurology or your, those are helpful.
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's the story as you're going through with serious brain injuries and disease.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I want to point things to this is just occurring to me too.
[SPEAKER_04]: In my second watch later when
[SPEAKER_04]: Tutals and Kirish are observing the sheep in a subsequent scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a screen that pops up that at first when it first popped up, I thought, oh, they were just scanning T.O.S.S.
[SPEAKER_04]: but they were actually scanning nibs, but we'll talk about that one there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, but this is a nice set up because they show us the, the gamma oscillations for Tocillus, but then they, he later does a switcheroo, he does a little Alekazam and Abra Cadabra and says, no, this is not actually what you're seeing, but you're seeing here as nibs, not Tocillus, because it uses the same sort of shot decomposition in the way that he edits it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, real quick, boy K and Ennis are talking, I love, you know, half, he calls Ennis K, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Glass out of the whole kid.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ennis, in my opinion, is a sin.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know, did I either pick up on the clue?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's like the fact that they're in the first scene when Wendy's making the alien vocalizations.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everyone's looking, hmm, not Ennis.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ennis is still next to Nibbs.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, took curly and the face is just blank.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't even pick it up on that actually because I was using the clue from the ball throwing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was it was the second watch where I clicked on that scene which then linked to an iPhone.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_04]: perfect.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not just a cold emotionalist guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's actually a sin.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, boy K balance is a ball and as catches it very quickly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when Wendy was convincing boy K to send them on the rescue mission, he throws the ball at her and she catches it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So and then of course later he puts Ennis up against the
[SPEAKER_04]: three faces in his study workshop.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, there's to me that's all I've seen.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and to me having a synth as an advisor is good, because he wants options.
[SPEAKER_08]: And if you have a computerized brain, you can give your boss options, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Not good, not bad.
[SPEAKER_08]: Here are your options.
[SPEAKER_08]: And he can execute things efficiently, so it's a good manager.
[SPEAKER_08]: And no drama, boy K, creates a lot of drama.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't feel like doing this today.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: So he will take orders, but he's also not a great advisor because you need that empathy, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: To have great advice or, you know, so he doesn't have that.
[SPEAKER_08]: But I'm not surprised that he is a, you know, is right hand.
[SPEAKER_04]: Great.
[SPEAKER_04]: And boy K-Share is getting aroused here.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's the dollars.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's the commodity.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm seeing commodity.
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, everything to him, I think, we got about corporate greed.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's about units.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's about selling.
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, for him, it's not about science to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Every single day at the moment for him.
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Every day he's going to have, I'm going to be Santa Claus.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I'm going to, and you're going to pay for it.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm not giving up for free.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you've, what did you make of when he, when boy K pointed to himself and said, yeah, he's, so he, he recognizes that to your cellus has got intelligence.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you know, he's not done anymore.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's, he's clocked that immediately.
[SPEAKER_05]: And for me, he's, he's like, trying to imprint on this thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm, you know, I'm the guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm the guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Talk to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I actually thought,
[SPEAKER_05]: When he did that, they were going to flick to the sheep, and it was going to try and vocalise.
[SPEAKER_05]: It almost looked like it was trying to, but yeah, it's like, look at me.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm the person in charge.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the other signal that Holly is sending us in this, and I'll wager internet points, is that our silless is going to be the creature that takes down Boycare.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: They do a great super imposing.
[SPEAKER_04]: The shot set up in this, the very opening shot is a close up of the dolls of the doll, the sheep's eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: The same eye that the midge is going to take out.
[SPEAKER_04]: So beautiful foreshadowing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So then going back to the book ends, Brett, like you said up before, Brian, we have the sheep in reflection over boycays face, you know, they're sort of superimposed together there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's pointing at himself saying, me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, oh, he's holly is having boykate invite.
[SPEAKER_04]: T, I still is into to be his boss.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, you just signed your own death warrant.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because everybody on the disco is having fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, like, oh, I hope that you know, it's good to be okay.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, well, what kind of organism is that going to be between a narcissist sociopath?
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, boy.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's get on to the next scene here, a divided house and slash expecting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Arthur and Dame Sylvia have a chat.
[SPEAKER_04]: Arthur voices doubts about boy K's alien obsession, while Sylvia signs with the new research direction, revealing fracture in their partnership as Arthur insists they need contingency plans if the project goes sideways.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nibs delivers some good news.
[SPEAKER_04]: And before we start talking about this, do you, is this one of the ones?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I have to say thank you so much, because you saved me a huge amount of time.
[SPEAKER_04]: So from here on, they're basically your scene descriptions.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think when we get to the next scene, maybe you can start introducing the scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: No worries.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, that was such a good start.
[SPEAKER_04]: I forgot that it was who wrote this one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I got into it and it's just like I'll just do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the myth of flow?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because you did line and I was at the end and I'm like, wait, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're like, you missed one.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I haven't even gotten twenty minutes into the episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like, okay, we're in the bottom of the deck.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like it, but no obligation, no obligation.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was five.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the next thing I do, I had to go do work and then I came back and then they're out like this.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was luckily, I'd set that entire afternoon aim for just nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was more than happy to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, triple appreciation for your subscription for your joining us on the podcast and for writing.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well done.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we get an opening shot of animal swimming in the lagoon and I did do a quick internet search and there is a always it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it a sinus crocodile?
[SPEAKER_04]: It has a couple of different names, but there is a endemic crocodile species in Southeast Asia, as well as there are salt water crocodiles.
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, Peter Pan.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's all I was thinking.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: A little foreshadowing.
[SPEAKER_04]: What did do you make of Arthur starting to crumble morally here?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, right from the get go, he seemed to be, he's always seems to be wanting to slow things down.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got to do this, then we want to go next thing, which is completely at odds with the way boy K operates.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there was always going to be some issues there, but I think Arthur's definitely seeing that
[SPEAKER_05]: Dame Sylvia is more on board with the way boy K operates than the way Arthur wants to operate Arthur's got that scientific rigor that you talked about Brian you know she is more on board boy K I mean you could tell when she's saying you know oh he takes the risks you know she's she was quite a few siff so for Arthur and I think for Arthur it's just like can you not see
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, this is going to go wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: Arthur's just knows this is going to go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to go bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, yeah, Dame Sylvia is definitely being the monkey.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and this is, obviously, people can't seem to be doing this, but I was covering my eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's taking my fingers and I, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the two wise monkeys, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the western context of I'm going to be willfully ignorant of what's going on here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, where Arthur is not able to go along with Brian Nibbs is having some difficulties.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, she comes with this
[SPEAKER_08]: incredible news news which is this whole parent thing right in about alien has often been about motherhood and pregnancy and some of these younger themes exactly exactly the mother of the alien right in aliens um yeah she is pregnant and then she's you know but she says i'm a machine and she corresponds i'm not a machine which got me to think
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, isn't the human body a machine, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: And with the technology exists, I can imagine they could with a little work create pregnancy for hybrids.
[SPEAKER_08]: you could, you know, artificially inseminate.
[SPEAKER_04]: You could get a sperm in it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: You create a womb.
[SPEAKER_08]: You can somehow give nutrients to the embryo and voila.
[SPEAKER_08]: You could have a pregnant hybrid that could be like phase two or three, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Of this whole project.
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_08]: We don't know what boy case thinking long term.
[SPEAKER_08]: He doesn't think long term.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's part of his problem.
[SPEAKER_08]: But
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, uh, but we also know that in this particular instance, she's not pregnant, but it leads us into the next scene, but it gets into a whole, you just opened up the whole, yeah, part of the letter, the latter book, a big part of the latter books of doing with Frank Herbert's room.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: No spoilers there, but there's some interesting things.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Shall we move on?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have an urge to lead us into the next season?
[SPEAKER_05]: So her name is Clarissa.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nibs talks more about her pregnancy to Dame Sylvia during therapy, but gives contradictory and conflicting responses.
[SPEAKER_05]: As a hybrid rejecting her machine nature, the internal conflict overwhelms Nibs, and she violently confront Sylvia who calls the guards and reports a level three event.
[SPEAKER_04]: What did you take away from this do?
[SPEAKER_05]: She's, you know, she's, she's the one that's just not transition.
[SPEAKER_05]: They took the use of the term in this a lot in this absurd transitioning.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's interesting because she's experiencing body dysphoria, not transiting a soul.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's stuck in who she was, the body she was in.
[SPEAKER_05]: She feels completely disconnected her identities.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think her identity shattered when she was on board the ship.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I see this.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the moment.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, it's just, it's really affecting to watch the actor because she plays the child really well in that situation.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's so good.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's doing that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't want, I don't want to engage.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to confront the reality.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to stay in my reality where I feel warm and safe.
[SPEAKER_05]: The tension in the scene was perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just ramping up.
[SPEAKER_05]: You were waiting for that explosion.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when it comes to dramatic tension, we're building.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: and Lily Newmark, is doing an amazing job.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and then previous episodes, when Kirch says to them when they're in the lab, quiet now, because boy K was calling, and she looked, she gives this teenager a look, like, ah, you know, it was just like, wow, so good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, what did you think of the level three event here?
[SPEAKER_04]: how terrified were you that a child, as you were talking before about children, and we think about impulse control, and they have guardrails.
[SPEAKER_04]: And a child, impulsively, acts, but they have a battery that can power a city and a super, an internal skeleton that is T-one-thousand like her.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to, you know, Stu said it very well.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'll jump in and say thinking about an internal neurology and that is the lost boys on Wendy to me.
[SPEAKER_08]: Miss Puberty.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: So there's a reason why you have years to develop because all these changes that you're doing that the body goes through the hormones are being released.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: You get to time to think this out to develop cognitive and self-actualization because I have time.
[SPEAKER_08]: It takes years and all of a sudden she is now thrown in
[SPEAKER_08]: throwing in to this big mess of being an adult without that slow self actualization hormones figuring out things in your own time.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, we're all we're all parents here.
[SPEAKER_08]: We're, you know, we're going to be either been through it or going to see it.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's coming.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's coming right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: You raised this because I listened to, I managed to get finally to listen to never mind the music.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I listened to the first two episodes this morning.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Nicole talks about that exactly in the first episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: The development and the how it has to happen to regulate.
[SPEAKER_05]: teenagers, so that they stop making poor decisions.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Quick plug for Nevermind the music.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go to the show notes and there's a link.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're one of our affiliates.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mark and Nicole Mark was on last week.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: And nibs use violence.
[SPEAKER_08]: Like you've seen kids do, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: They take that, you know, slap or they go and attack Sylvia in that way.
[SPEAKER_08]: And then she distracts her with tea.
[SPEAKER_08]: Like a kid, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: So she understands that there's a child still in this adult body.
[SPEAKER_08]: She has to use those kinds of skills to go into this level three event, which is going to be interesting what that means when she'd back to her place.
[SPEAKER_08]: And your room.
[SPEAKER_04]: As a parent, I learned, yeah, distraction, coercion, bribe.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are sometimes you have to resort to those things to get your child to respond to what you need them to do or stop doing.
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the introduction of the flavor strips, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a line of code that you put on your down because it's the same ones that that later in the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a great sci-fi.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's brilliant, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's really good.
[SPEAKER_04]: But which is interesting because we see ash in eating and drinking with the crew in seventy nine, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and Bishop sits down as well to eat them.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this do do hybrids need to eat.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And who says one of them says I miss eating.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was it her I forget who knew and no poop.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and boy Kate.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no poop.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, really.
[SPEAKER_05]: It says obviously powered by lithium.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am battery that could Paris.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're also tells me that.
[SPEAKER_08]: Boy K did not do a big data dump into these brains because they don't know all the tastes.
[SPEAKER_08]: They don't have all the information of books, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Because they're downloading it by pass.
[SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, nib says, oh, I learned about the burden that bees threw in the farm.
[SPEAKER_08]: That wasn't data dumped into their brains.
[SPEAKER_08]: So this is very interesting, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Learn that bit itself was a brilliant encapsulation of
[SPEAKER_05]: How broken nips is isn't it?
[SPEAKER_05]: First time, Dame Silver asks about pregnancy.
[SPEAKER_05]: God brings babies.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh great, he throws Christianity.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, God brings them babies.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then when she pushes it, we're upon a farm.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you've got an irrational bit, an irrational bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: And all the same conversation is like, oh, nips.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's no safe word.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't have time yesterday to find a good clip of freeze all motor functions from Westworld.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but they're like, what do you mean there's no safe word?
[SPEAKER_04]: And what are you doing putting the call button on that other side of your patient?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, to get to your call button, you have to go on the physically around.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: There is.
[SPEAKER_05]: Think about how dim Sylvia has been interacting with the lost boys.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's very much taken on the maternal role.
[SPEAKER_05]: She sees us on the same mother.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was only in two.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Boycaven says earlier in this episode, you're not their mother.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go away.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's an IT issue, not that issue.
[SPEAKER_05]: She is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's only until that moment that nips leaked across the room.
[SPEAKER_05]: She suddenly realized, oh crap, these aren't kids.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm in a room with a tiger.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So actually the button being over the side of the probably was her thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, no, these kids, these kids.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: See.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: You bit who brisk blinders going back to Clark's laws about your brisk in our understanding of what we're playing at here.
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: And the three monkeys.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, as well, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I tell you, right, that he has put these two, there's a reason he put Clark and the three monkeys in one episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's brilliant.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you know the company man?
[SPEAKER_05]: The company man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Herman, it's bullish confidence about his future at prodigy and access to Wendy is swiftly deflated when eyes reminds him of the harsh reality.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it Heinz or NF?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Heinz or NF?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Heinz or NF.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's Heinz or NF.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Heinz or NF.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got some thoughts.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's say, let's dissect a little bit more because I forgot that you have a big mind brought.
[SPEAKER_04]: He probably dualism.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to bring here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have a blanket with sleeves?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you buy one?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, but you can get those, like, ooty type things, which, which I haven't got.
[SPEAKER_05]: But my wife and my kids do.
[SPEAKER_05]: And actually, that's damn useful.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because in the winter, you just put your Rudy on.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if that's not more signaling, I don't know what it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you signaling?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but he's signaling, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You can interpret what you want.
[SPEAKER_04]: Read a response there a year.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, of course, trains humanism, which then goes back to the island of Dr. Murrow, H. G. Wells, character of Murrow, Dr. Murrow, so all kinds of interesting stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: Any other little details you got, do before we toss the ball to find it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't get into details, guys.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, throughout this entire episode, her makes quite bullish.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not no problem speaking.
[SPEAKER_05]: True.
[SPEAKER_04]: Guys, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: What I like is, I used his full title.
[SPEAKER_04]: Portagey Medi medic.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, get back in your box, little man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that was the point that it was like, oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got no leverage on this in this at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Your point there, very quickly, um, transhumanism.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the next evolutionary step, which is boy K's vision.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it's bloody product.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what he's going to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to be a product.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, yeah, it's great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and I want to ask you a unit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: It goes back to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But Boocky is interesting because he's also, he's wants to be titulated, but he's also very business minded at the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: A subsidiary of a subsidiary of a subsidiary of an LLC would ever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really quick, do
[SPEAKER_04]: Adrian Edmondson.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have to reset it up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, Adrian Edmondson is a comic actor.
[SPEAKER_05]: My history with Adrian Edmondson is, I first saw him in nineteen, I think, the eighty-four on a BBC comedy called The Young Wands, which is completely unarmed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Completely unarmed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Completely breaks the fourth wall all the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Completely weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he plays a punk called Vivian.
[SPEAKER_05]: and he's got foos vivient.
[SPEAKER_05]: So he's got the four general pattern stars embedded in his forehead with orange vertical hair.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, that is Adrian Edmunds.
[SPEAKER_05]: go internet go do a quick internet search and and look up Adrian Edinson Young terms to get a picture of it because it is an like I had no clue that yeah that is him so yeah so he's you know he's he's well known in the UK it was right was he an abfab to he might have had a cameo because he was married so you want to fit
[SPEAKER_04]: It's coming up in the internet.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he was married to one of the characters.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've one of the stars in there.
[SPEAKER_04]: But he's over there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, of Bruce Tan.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was very big with his partner in crime, who I'm bouncing off now, Luke and Ian are going to be screaming at this pod.
[SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, so yeah, Edmund's a very recognizable.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think he's just fantastic in this.
[SPEAKER_05]: He hasn't got, it's not so much menace when he walks in a room.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's just got something that, you know, it took, it took her a little bit of time, but you clocked this guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I got listen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go with me here for a second, and this I think is by accident.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think this is necessarily by design, but some seriously for a dimensional chess if it is by
[SPEAKER_04]: kids playing around eggs in episode two, you know, when when slightly and cr-m, uh, me or playing in the egg dude, you see this and we're all screaming like a way from the eggs, but their sense, it doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's inverting right before into comedy.
[SPEAKER_04]: with this actor with Abed Benson, again, he's inverting for a certain set swath of viewers, he's inverting comedy in horror in the same way that he's inverting are not sins but hybrids and alien.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a tricksy isn't he holy?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Players.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, Brian, take us down the mind body dualism problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I talked about this a little bit last week too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's Mark.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, with Ghost in the Machine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the guy going to look about behind the Arthur Kessler?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was reacting to the dualism thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: So thank you.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I will make this, you know, I won't.
[SPEAKER_08]: make this a long time, but the core idea, so this is an ancient problem, Plato, Aristotle, all that.
[SPEAKER_08]: René DeCard comes along and says there are two distinct kinds of substances in reality.
[SPEAKER_08]: First is a mental or thinking substance.
[SPEAKER_08]: This is that I think, therefore, I am.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's a certainty.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's the mind.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's a soul.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's the consciousness.
[SPEAKER_08]: Then we have another of physical substance, the physical
[SPEAKER_08]: body, spatial objects, chairs, you know, desk, and the problem then you've got these two substances of reality that you experience.
[SPEAKER_08]: But they interact.
[SPEAKER_08]: So the mind body problem is an interaction problem, the ghost in the machine.
[SPEAKER_08]: Because if I want to think I'm going to shake your hand, David, my hand moves.
[SPEAKER_08]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_08]: My mind thought.
[SPEAKER_08]: And then there was a body movement.
[SPEAKER_08]: How that happened, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: So the card understood it, but he kind of like, oh, it's kind of planned on the body, but you know, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, so it becomes this mind body problem, where if you think about neurology and neuroscience,
[SPEAKER_08]: There's a strong correlation between the mental vents and the brain events.
[SPEAKER_08]: If I feel emotions, anxiety, I'm going to feel it in my body.
[SPEAKER_08]: If I'm depressed, I feel it in my body.
[SPEAKER_08]: The brain imaging, there's a strong correlation.
[SPEAKER_08]: You need two separate substances.
[SPEAKER_08]: They're one.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right?
[SPEAKER_08]: So here is the mind body problem that Mark alluded to the ghost in the machine right day of video and what Adam and everyone Holly is talking about.
[SPEAKER_08]: So the consciousness and the body and that's the that's your backstory for that really glad you've raised this because this to me goes to a question I've always had in this series where
[SPEAKER_05]: You've downloaded child minds into hybrid bodies.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they do still experience the mind sensation of fear.
[SPEAKER_05]: but they don't have the autonomous bodily reactions that we do.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't have the hair, they don't have no horror to try to keep it warm and liberating.
[SPEAKER_05]: Losing blood from the extremities to protect the core.
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't have that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they can only internalize fear in the space of their mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: That mushroom we have, a detrimental effect.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think it would be very scary in some ways isolating because you are truly experiencing the cart with two separate experiences that would freak us out.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I kind of an uncanny valley in and of itself, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But from a point of internal point of view, I suppose to an external, oh, something's weird here.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, a lot now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it's like all through, it's rife throughout here.
[SPEAKER_04]: This do some question.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and Herman makes, I think, you know, we make a legitimate argument that well, you know, my memories, uh, Marsh's memories or emotions.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's Marcy, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, but is it?
[SPEAKER_08]: Is it?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Kessler talks about this in his book Ghost of the Machine about what happens if you separate, you know, if you took an existing consciousness, he can't do it from the body.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: What would happen?
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is what we've seen.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Talk to you in the next scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, do you really carry on?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now you can hear the clock.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love, by the way, thank you very much for changing it, because what I put down was.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hermit reunites with Siberian and Rashidi as Vyke, what she's via the security system.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wendy and Vyke have a heart to heart.
[SPEAKER_05]: She wants them to stop experimenting on the aliens.
[SPEAKER_05]: Vyke just wants Hermit off the island.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: You fought the Crocodile and now you can hear the clock.
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't pick up on that until the second wire.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, oh, she says,
[SPEAKER_04]: they picked her and holy has to know that we would have all been going crazy, just like hermit outside those blast doors, trying to get in because we want to see Wendy kicking this Zeno's ass and how she decapitated it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But he hides that from us.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what happened there that she can now, she fought the crocodile and she can now hear the two.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have time to go repeat her pain.
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to be able to download it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, in this scene, boy K really just doesn't like families.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's created a family.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Brian, you would say something earlier that made me think about this scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I forgot to bring it up, but the fact that he rails against parents in this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Always telling us what to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Guard rails.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: And he calls him.
[SPEAKER_08]: He doesn't current hermit, hermit.
[SPEAKER_08]: He calls him a brother.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right?
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like he has a certain aloofness.
[SPEAKER_08]: And so if you have like a narcissist sociopath, you have tendencies of spirituality, lack of empathy.
[SPEAKER_08]: manipulation, restaking shallow relationships, sense of entitlement.
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, this is this is this is textbook boy K. Yeah, it's like, I don't eat family.
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't eat friends.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's all in my way of what I want to do.
[SPEAKER_08]: You live in my world.
[SPEAKER_05]: Really interesting when Wendy still wants to please the boy genius.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's got her pet name from boy K. So she wants to please boy K. But he's doing the toxic gaslighting again.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think Wendy's got
[SPEAKER_05]: She's got more leverage.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think she's got more cards than she actually realizes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't think she needs to be placating or pleasing boy K. Maybe she'll come to that realization.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they've set up a bunch of stuff where people were both Arthur, Sylvia, and Kirish all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Stop short of openly confronting boy K at various points.
[SPEAKER_04]: and curly even it walks up dances around that line when boy case says to her don't tell me what I want you what you think I want to hear tell me the truth but do you ever tell a guy like that the truth when he owns your long yeah yeah
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_04]: And just going back to that really quick, just the idea that, oh, you can, it's very expensive, but you can stay and work off that, you know, you can work off the contract.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's no problem at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll be happy to set that up for that contract up for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so insidious, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It shows how divisive the corporations are in this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: We rent our phones now.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll soon be renting our computers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: A lot of people rent their automobiles.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we rent software.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So perpetual flight.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're batteries in the matrix and the corporations are just drawing and being fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everything's there.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, uh, you want to move us along?
[SPEAKER_05]: The naming slash family matters.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll just do the quote.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: There is power in a nice piece.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is through names that we bring all things into this world.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when they leave, it is names we carry with us.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they are never truly gone.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's quite just in Kronen, the ferryman, which I thought was perfect for this scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we've got Kirsten Tutuals and Observe the Image aka I dolly.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Tutuals chooses a new name for himself, Isaac.
[SPEAKER_05]: Slightly ex-weird and runs away.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then contacts Morrow while Kirste surveils the interaction.
[SPEAKER_05]: We slightly smothered as leverage.
[SPEAKER_05]: Morrow's veiled threats coerce slightly into a green to deliver someone infected with a ZNOM.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, let's first talk about Tutal's changing his name to Isaac.
[SPEAKER_04]: But first I want to just reflash again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go if you go watch that scene one of the first computer screens that pops up.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you freeze frame it, compute it and then you do a computer enhance.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can see up on the eggs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, great blade runner.
[SPEAKER_04]: That up on the upper right and upper left corners of the computer screen, it says nibs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do I have the screen?
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me scroll back here.
[SPEAKER_04]: I do have it right here.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it says where it says scanning specimen, the window title is hybrid memory personality interface.
[SPEAKER_04]: Parameters saved and uploading to hybrid cognitive analysis, forty percent, but nibs is named is listed on there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is a scan of nibs, not of T oscillis.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_08]: I think this is part of the level three.
[SPEAKER_08]: This is the protocol for level three threat.
[SPEAKER_08]: Is that you're going to have to maybe shut down kind of like what Wendy went through where she's on the table.
[SPEAKER_08]: They taught us that.
[SPEAKER_04]: They demonstrated that they can shut you down remotely.
[SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: So then now you can scan to find out
[SPEAKER_08]: But bodily, what is wrong with her?
[SPEAKER_08]: But the problem is, right, as we all know, it's a consciousness thing.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's an emotional thing.
[SPEAKER_08]: So is that really going to work?
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, your body is fine.
[SPEAKER_08]: But it's a conchanical.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Mechanically, but it's a consciousness.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's the problem.
[SPEAKER_08]: How are you going to fix that?
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: So do Toodles chooses a new name.
[SPEAKER_04]: And ironically, he is the oldest album, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And that fact is established later.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really liked that I'm a grown man.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a scientist.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want a real name.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he's gone for a powerful name.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because when he said Isaac, the very first in that bumped into my head was Newton.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you know, from me, serious man.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that seems to be too, it seems to be definitely developing into
[SPEAKER_05]: I suppose what we would class as a man, you know, as a, as a, as a ring did individual.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that was really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, and then they juxtapose that with slightly bumping into him as he walks out of the lab.
[SPEAKER_05]: And just such a kid responds, oh yeah, something from the lab.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, two else just like, yeah, whatever two don't want to go and play.
[SPEAKER_05]: So brings it back that these are still kids.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's just, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So good at the way they do.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if Isaac too, like if how far you take Isaac back, like where some deeper roots for that, even beyond modern history?
[SPEAKER_05]: I did, one thing I didn't want to say is I'm noticed within this episode, there's weird bit clicking by both Moro and Boy K.
[SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I just wonder whether it's, I mean, it kind of goes into the whole creepy, groomer, gaslighty type.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it was interesting that both times it was very close up full head image.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you can see it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just thought.
[SPEAKER_04]: Huh, and I missed it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You'll see, boy gave us a weird look and so does Mara.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I love Moro as we pan back.
[SPEAKER_04]: We think he's in the tea house, but he's sitting with Arush's mother.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's terrified the poor woman.
[SPEAKER_04]: She thinks that this guy is an angel that really he's not.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then I love I love slightly sitting on his rock.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the epitome of Western ideas about meditation.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to go and master myself by sitting on this rock in a beautiful green verdant lens, like the idea of Western, Eastern mythology and the way that Westerners, I utilize this perfect image of sitting on earth.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Would you see like the Kung Fu Panda movies?
[SPEAKER_05]: Bring the Ice Age.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Lovely.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to move on to sibling rivalry?
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, go.
[SPEAKER_05]: sibling rivalry.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hermit Geeksoreen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, is this where did we, is this the scene, or does it come later, where Kirish unlocks the last bit?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the last bit of the previous scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, the last thing you see,
[SPEAKER_05]: is Kirsch and locking the paddock, and he's walking in to those eggs.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the way I touch them, you know, check me if you guys think you have a different logic here, but he's surveilling the interaction between Moro and slightly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so he is unlocking the paddock and he's going to leave it unlocked because Slightly's going to miss that detail.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to be so nervous at trying to complete his mission.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to just go, oh, the door is unlocked in group.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to go in.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Chris gets that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: I read it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Curtis is setting this up for Slightly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: He gets a human subject at the hands of others.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we actually get something he wants that he probably would ask for.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's pushing slightly into like, what choice are you going to make here?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm not, I'm not giving you any more reasoning here.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm just giving you an option.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Choose.
[SPEAKER_04]: Choose.
[SPEAKER_04]: You said you would choose to stand up for your friends.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let me observe, which is this is all about observation.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kirch is observing all of this input.
[SPEAKER_08]: He's always behind the scenes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_08]: Watching.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Watching.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're watching T.O.C.L.S.
[SPEAKER_04]: and we're watching the embryos.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a lot of observation going on here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Boy K is observing as Joe reunites with his friends.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kirch obviously observe observing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Dame Sylvia is observing nibs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a lot of people watching each other.
[SPEAKER_04]: all across it's episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, next scene, sibling rivalry.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hermit gives her aim with the lost boys and we get more info about the five until a bitter, slightly arrives.
[SPEAKER_05]: Questioning why Hermit gets special treatment and why Wendy has a brother.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wendy deflects with high-molder, but slightly has already made his deadly choice.
[SPEAKER_05]: Slecting Hermit as the human carrier for the xenomorph embryo, he must still put tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_04]: We get the little code slips of a flavor again, very fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: Joe's like, and you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: But that was a lovely little scene actually, just again, take the tension down a little bit, a little bit of into flow.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, just in intensity where Kierst is touching an egg and we're like, we get a little info down.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're goof around.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll tell me about in the fog.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But actually, great world learning.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what you need.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I did like in the background.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to call him Isaac, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or I've been tools.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it curly?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to call him Isaac
[SPEAKER_05]: but um yeah look just really nice little group scene smear again the active place smear just nails that child like
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's me, so I want Smith to live.
[SPEAKER_05]: Please, do not kill him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jonathan, I died.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, not kill him.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's acting his portrayal.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's so sweet.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, just he's gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_08]: I love me.
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, and, and I also picked up when Herman was telling us about the story about the five companies and democracy government.
[SPEAKER_08]: He said that the company is apparently
[SPEAKER_08]: I quote, apparently, fixed all the problems.
[SPEAKER_08]: But, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Very, those problems, you know, deep.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just bury them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: We also get confirmation that matrix style learning is a thing in this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, yeah, obviously, the big thing here is that
[SPEAKER_04]: Slightly gets to take out his animosity by and his upset that Wendy gets to have a brother.
[SPEAKER_04]: He now then gets to be targeted as the perfect victim for what Moro is grooming him to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: That classic thing wasn't it.
[SPEAKER_05]: He just great to have slightly come straight off that interaction with Moro, the undercurrent of threat to his family.
[SPEAKER_05]: to then come straight into that really nice scene, everyone's like joking around and he just projects all of that fear straight on to really win and win.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, really good.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a great observation.
[SPEAKER_08]: The actor has some great physical acting as well.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's bring it to a close mother's touch.
[SPEAKER_05]: In the lab, Azina erupts from Joe's preserved lung, but instead of violence, it responds to Wendy's gentle alien killing.
[SPEAKER_05]: An airy maternal bond forms, hinting at the dark intimate connection between hybrid and monster.
[SPEAKER_05]: All the while, Kirch watches from the shadows.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is just, again, playing in this whole world, you know, getting into the resurrection movie of it all, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even though, what's he is, it's just there.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can't help this is that, you know, if you're using salt and pepper, you know, it's in your recipe, right, if you're using a pasta or whatever, it's just part and parcel of this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: very, very fine sort of wink in some way.
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, we're playing, aren't we, with this theme, a family, motherhood.
[SPEAKER_05]: But everything, you know, it's like, he's Wendy, he's Wendy the queen.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a hive species.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's interconnected.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's a machine that's connected to other machines.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's part of a hive.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm, you know, we're getting artificial hive, we're getting the Zeno hive mark, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's one foot in both worlds.
[SPEAKER_04]: Seems like it doesn't actually can, yeah, translate into the two worlds.
[SPEAKER_05]: But what a great way to look at the, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: The common reaction I saw across the internet was to space balls in the diner scene where the cast of Alien
[SPEAKER_04]: is there, and they sort of recreate the test first or scene, but instead the proto alien comes out and starts singing a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Isn't it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Hello, my baby.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hello, my sweet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, hello, my right time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a little, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little, it was a little,
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, how did you respond to Ali?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I, you know, again, she's, she smiles and watches this snake like alien.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, you know, in her brain, at least in our consciousness, she's not, there's no fear here.
[SPEAKER_08]: So she's able, you know, again, that comes back to earlier part about communication or language or this type of thing that's going on that they're able to bond and
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, Stu, you were talking about the hive.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, I kept thinking, well, she's going to be a huge, important commodity.
[SPEAKER_08]: Because if she has a connection, how can they use her to move this project forward?
[SPEAKER_04]: Another reaction I saw a lot of people were like, oh, that glass is obviously not very strong for the alien to burst out.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is when again, where there's little nibbley bits that you're like, okay, you know, I'm fine with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I also get it because the show is like I said in the last episode is molecular gastronomy.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not, it's for everyone, but not everyone is going to enjoy the experience of this.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I get that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what we often find is that it's easy to attach to these kinds of details when the story isn't working.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we pick and do that all the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: The story is not working for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: I complain about the CGI.
[SPEAKER_04]: I complain about the,
[SPEAKER_04]: the ADR, you know, all of those little things, the seams of the edges and seams that they don't.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this scene is down, that get molecular astronomy because he's using the things you expect, the emergence of the alien, the violence that comes with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then he immediately pivots to, nope, it's a really personal tender moment between the xenomorph and Wendy.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's just like, what?
[SPEAKER_04]: and Jill is the biological father.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think I wrote it in my something like, hey, master, I would it be if, you know, Wendy actually wants
[SPEAKER_04]: the Zeno to come out of, oh, it's just all this just potential for, which is this nightmare for you of, of Geeger of HR Geeger, right, the original designer of the alien, the physiology, or the visual of alien of the alien of the xenomorphic species.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's really twisted stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's great.
[SPEAKER_05]: But fantastic way to end the upside there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and then there's another event that's all we'll do in the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: It took my rabbit hole out.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're all bangin' around.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is definitely my jam.
[SPEAKER_05]: Tell us about that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, this is Jane's addiction and the track is ocean sized from the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll have nothing shocking.
[SPEAKER_05]: And very much on the back of what Mark did last week.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not even in the same universe as Mark.
[SPEAKER_05]: I decided to go and
[SPEAKER_05]: take a dive into the lyrics.
[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, it does tie in thematic.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why I said, does it tie in thematicly?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, of course it does.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is not what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_05]: God.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, you look at the lyrics and it's talking about it's giving you a sense of disconnection.
[SPEAKER_05]: And some people have looked at the song and to them, it speaks about being homeless.
[SPEAKER_05]: that level of disconnection, which is interesting if you think about the lost boys, they talked a lot again about family and hope, yet they are now isolated.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's your point, Brian, that mind-body problem, they're isolated within an artificial body.
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, the ocean, it's a mother metaphor, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_05]: We talked about the ocean giving life.
[SPEAKER_05]: And for me, there's definitely something there about
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it's not the hybrid so much, it's maybe it's Wendy's desire to be part of something bigger, to have some role.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but there's definitely something in there about an ocean being vast and the permanent solvent and something like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But there's a lyric about being torn like a tooth.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've had many examples of that, we've got in the show, we've got the
[SPEAKER_05]: the hybrids being torn from their physical bodies into the artificial body.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got the mirroring and the alien specimens being torn from their environment and brought into an alien environment.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I mean that, again, he picks his songs really well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then Neverland is surrounded by an ocean as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Highland, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a line about the in the sky lives a spy.
[SPEAKER_09]: Hmm, is it Morrow?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Here is the spy here and I've got to say the final lines.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm hoping this is tea tearing up the next episode because the final lines are no talking man or action.
[SPEAKER_05]: No talking man or action.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think maybe we're gonna have a little?
[SPEAKER_04]: I have not watched the trailer for next week's episode, but I've heard a few other people talking about it and it does sound like, even on the official pod, they said something.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to say anything here, just in case people are trying to preserve their enjoyment of it, but it could potentially be something action-oriented.
[SPEAKER_04]: As I've watched this program,
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought less and less that, oh, it's wholly actually going to do a flashback episode to the margin.
[SPEAKER_04]: We talked about that relative first episode where there's a whole bunch of track that he laid and we've been on Neverland right now, so yeah, but yeah, I could see it all so I would be equally
[SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't be I wouldn't go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's terrible.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what's happening.
[SPEAKER_05]: Imagine it because my imaginations filled in that gaps.
[SPEAKER_05]: If all is on a story to tell about what's going on at the moment, I'm in.
[SPEAKER_05]: But if he's going to do a flashback episode next week and show us the carnage on the imaginary, I'm going to get the popcorn out and I'm just going to settle in.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, is the ending music working for you?
[SPEAKER_04]: A lot of people don't know how to process it, but again, for me, it's just Holly playing with the for me, doing molecular gastronomy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And something that the songs do for me is it kind of crystallizes or synthesizes in the experience of watching the show for me so that I feel in some way oddly complete, even though it might be a cliff, literal cliffhanger of an episode,
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm fine, and something about the music just sort of seals off the episode for me so that I'm satisfied, but yet ready for next week when it comes.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's my personal experience of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how is this using contemporary music working for you as a outro?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it is, it is different.
[SPEAKER_08]: Again, it's a same kind of thing with the beginning.
[SPEAKER_08]: It does not, yeah, it does not meet expectations.
[SPEAKER_08]: So I'm not getting like just, you know, fade to black were done, right?
[SPEAKER_08]: Getting really bang or music.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I'll be honest, it throws me, but
[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe that's a good thing.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm kind of embracing the jar, it jars me.
[SPEAKER_08]: It feels like whoa, electronic guitar.
[SPEAKER_08]: And now we're anticipating it.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_08]: So now I'm used to it.
[SPEAKER_08]: So my body is just, you can't see, but I'm like, my hands are in a fist.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, I'm pairing my body for this onslaught of sensation.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm digging it as I'm risk getting used to it.
[SPEAKER_08]: I think I'm getting it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is really where Holly understands television and he understands how we engage with television and that, you know, we're doing week to week thankfully for the show.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then we're going to go back and we're going to binge it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so he's finding the ways through the delivery of the format, knowing that both is going to happen.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to finish on a week to week.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we're going to have it accessible for binge forward.
[SPEAKER_04]: And somehow he's able to bring all the parts and pieces together.
[SPEAKER_04]: He understands pacing.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is episode four of eight or midway through.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: right and I feel no loss in momentum even though we've zero down into Neverland and we're in our alien haunted house just like on the Nostromo or at Hadley's Hope right we're in this enclosed space but yet well okay so let me go back here to let me jump up this line somewhere in here
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, now I can find it, of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: The Neverland has been made.
[SPEAKER_04]: The Neverland had been make believe in those days, but it real now.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there were no lights, and it was getting darker every moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, of delectable islands, of all the delectable islands, Neverland is the snugest and most compact.
[SPEAKER_04]: not large and sprawly, you know, with tedious distances between one adventure and another, but nicely crammed.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you play at it by day with the chairs and tablecloths, it is not the least alarming.
[SPEAKER_04]: But in the two minutes before you go to sleep, it's very real.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why there are nights.
[SPEAKER_05]: You said the blue print night for how you're doing the show.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, he gets the cultural way that we consume television shows, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what he does really well is he sees mysteries, but he answers the ones that move the story forward.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he just keeps it.
[SPEAKER_05]: He just moves the other ones a little bit slightly forward more.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like that we've just talked about the end song.
[SPEAKER_05]: The end songs, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: Give you a deeper insight into what the episodes been put in forward.
[SPEAKER_05]: Someone else would have used the song to make it denser and try and get you down some other area.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just like the way, no, look, you can look at those lyrics.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can interpret them in certain ways, but you'll see the themes that I'm laying down.
[SPEAKER_05]: You'll see what we've had in the past fifty odd minutes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'll love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I forgot to mention at the top of the show that we did have a piece of feedback.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't, we don't have Nancy from our hand of the pod.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not getting a lot of feedback.
[SPEAKER_04]: Send in feedback, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: We want to hear what this goes.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this goes crazy, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_05]: The disco gets a lot of conversation going on out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just want to come up with a conversation to come back and come this way.
[SPEAKER_04]: MVP at the lorhounds.com and flamboyant gatekeeper.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's their handle on online citizen email.
[SPEAKER_04]: I kind of, they were saying that, oh, I'm not sure if I'm vibing on the show.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I said, well, right in the email, you know, lay out your points because I get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a weird, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is not a, oh, what's the show?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm thinking of the twin pigs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Taylor shared it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is not a Taylor shared it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not the pits, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: This is something wild.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, eh, flame white gate versus I've been an alien fan for a bit when I learned about Alien Earth was excited.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're pretty sure about me pumped.
[SPEAKER_04]: The showrunner seems to have their ducks in a row.
[SPEAKER_04]: This will rule.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the show happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was good.
[SPEAKER_04]: But something I couldn't quite put my finger on felt off.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not the adult children, sure that was weird, but I'll go for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The xenomorph is fine, prodigy is new, prodigy, I can't, no, I got podcast or mouth.
[SPEAKER_04]: But fair enough, the story has been on wailing new tiny ships.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what is it?
[SPEAKER_04]: My first inkling was the vast amount of cultural references.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can forgive Peter Pan because that's one of Elon Musk.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, boy, Cavaliers, obsessions.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I see one baseball player from before I was born.
[SPEAKER_04]: I get that they need to show that the kids are kids, but takes me out of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's not the root cause.
[SPEAKER_04]: For me, it really clicked with episode three.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it is about the xenomorph after all.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this email came in just after we finished recording episode three.
[SPEAKER_04]: So sorry, I miss it, but catching up.
[SPEAKER_04]: They are unfortunately showing it too much in the scene when Wendy is rescuing Joe.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't help but see the man in the suit, so to speak.
[SPEAKER_04]: It moves way too human and the acid blood isn't acid enough.
[SPEAKER_04]: We know from the seventy nine that face huggers bleed too.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how are they dissecting it?
[SPEAKER_04]: And speaking of dissection, I don't understand what Kirch is thinking, letting the tadpole loose like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Joe is a terrible host in his current state, and he needs to be stabilized, not to mention the danger.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's seen the data, he knows what a shit idea this is.
[SPEAKER_04]: The full-grown version, but I think relative to episode four versus three, this episode four puts this email in a little bit of light.
[SPEAKER_04]: So just everyone take that into frame, carrying on.
[SPEAKER_04]: The full-grown version also seems too fast when off-screen in episode two and Moro is interrupted at the elevator.
[SPEAKER_04]: It takes all of three seconds for every single prodigy, soldier to die.
[SPEAKER_04]: prodigy, if I can save that group, it gave me a samurai cutting someone four hundred times and then walk away to meet it four.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the body slides far, far.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's not right same in the apartment the slaughter was too short the Quentin Tarantino like blood spray I don't mind Gorwise, but it felt out of place more of a display than what I would just on that David I did I delete some upon that as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: I when I was watching I thought Jesus this thing We know the alien is a killing machine, but
[SPEAKER_05]: It did seem to happen very quickly and everybody seemed to be sliced and diced.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I see where I see where the right is coming from on that one.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the whole thing with the apartment with the costumes and the party, it was all of very, the streets, so I get, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And in the Reggie Jackson thing, it's like, it's a little bit really on the note.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we were in the first episode to drop.
[SPEAKER_04]: People are showing up for the show because the word ailed in the title.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so if he doesn't give us a xenomorph doing some, you know, slice and dice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ginsu knives, slice and dice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then people are going to go, well, what show is this?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't see as you know more of killing a lot of bull.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so he's like, here you go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which kind of, which kind of strength and the argument for next episode being potentially a flashback to the mansion?
[SPEAKER_05]: Does that would be more trad alien stars?
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Whatever one knows, it's comfortable with.
[SPEAKER_04]: Continuing nevertheless, I enjoy the show greatly, the blend of humor and serious works.
[SPEAKER_04]: They say that comedy and horror are two sides of the same coin, and the show really brings that forward in the best of ways.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess I just have the same feeling I get when a movie is fast and loose book source material.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just don't have any show for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The themes are interesting, and I don't think that prodigy is long for this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm expecting Utahni,
[SPEAKER_04]: to let the place get infested and nuke the island from orbit to keep everyone's mouth shut.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm very interested in learning how the F are there keeping folks quiet about what they've seen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Someone said that the island is the equivalent of the Nostromo in that it's isolated from the rest of the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_04]: That means nobody can survive.
[SPEAKER_04]: reading, I'm already waiting for next week.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it even seems like standpoint gatekeepers email here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I'm not sure if I'm bi-bing, but by the end of their email, they're like, okay, give me the next episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, you know, Nick, the site for more bits, the anyway to be sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's right, that's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But actually, that's not bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not a bad prediction, actually, because we know something's got to happen within the arc of this show, whether it's single season or if Hallie gets multiple seasons, we know there's got to be something that
[SPEAKER_05]: suppresses all of this knowledge or experience.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not going to get out into the world as we understand so far.
[SPEAKER_05]: We know alien species are canon and it now makes that that is a bug hunt.
[SPEAKER_05]: We know that's great because we see other species apart from the xenomorph.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that answers all of that now.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, maybe maybe Utah does drop a nuke
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and Alicia, and a few other people have some internet points on, is this just a giant trojan?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or spy utani?
[SPEAKER_04]: Take prodigy out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because prodigy in Lynch are the newest to the five, and in the previous scene, when Moro is dialing up into AOL, he's reading some articles about how Lynch and prodigy joined the five.
[SPEAKER_04]: and there's some snippets about that information.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, is Utah any playing a different game here?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or happy accident.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oops, we are ship crashed, but this might actually, you know, chaos is a ladder.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe she's seeing that this is a way
[SPEAKER_04]: to, because they're going to be able to come in and collect all the data, you know, before they knew get from more and better.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're going to get to see what these aliens do.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we want to be, we want to approach with critique, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Our criticism is not negativity.
[SPEAKER_04]: Criticism is, what's work?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not working.
[SPEAKER_04]: What am I experiencing?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: How am I processing this?
[SPEAKER_04]: What do I think?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is your point?
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe you can just be otherwise, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, gentlemen, thank you so very much for joining me.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're under two and a half hours.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's excellent.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much for your efficiency.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good.
[SPEAKER_04]: And your excellent points.
[SPEAKER_04]: I felt very, that was really great conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really appreciate you both making time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your busy schedule through your lives and your family stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: Come and chat and thank you for your support.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have both been steadfast and it means a lot that we have people in this community who are willing to support the community.
[SPEAKER_04]: Does it work for everybody in there?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, finances and that's fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: This way we have public feeds.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it really is the subscriptions that this whole thing of float.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: The value versus the cost versus the return is incredible.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Content overflowing.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like a set of sometimes too much.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've already just started.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, the music side.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's it's good.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I encourage people, you know, whatever little money you could do.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's it's a good thing that you get you get your money's worth.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: An annual subscription.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think at the discounted rate is a
[SPEAKER_04]: fifty four dollars or something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I get to everything we put out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we put out over a hundred episodes a year or four.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good.
[SPEAKER_04]: We love what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so definitely check out all of the other affiliates.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can check the link in the link tree of the show notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brian, eighty sixty three and do seventy one.
[SPEAKER_04]: You will find gentlemen on discord as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you have anything to say, you can add them.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can also send in emails.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please send in emails or voice mail.
[SPEAKER_04]: A. V. P. At the lower house.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: We also have a blog.
[SPEAKER_04]: The blog is open.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anybody can publish to the blog.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, Brian.
[SPEAKER_04]: You go ahead.
[SPEAKER_08]: Don't you pick the blog?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_08]: You can go to the website or a blog and keep scrolling.
[SPEAKER_08]: You'll find some material on how to do that or you on the discord.
[SPEAKER_08]: There's a channel, loreberry.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's what we call it.
[SPEAKER_08]: The loreberry.
[SPEAKER_08]: And we encourage you if you have deeper thoughts and connections feel free to
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, give it up.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'll be editing it through and we'll get you out.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We are a particular kind of community that is more than a fan community, but less than professional critics.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if that works for you, also consider subscribing if it works for you, your personal finances.
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, Brian, do, really appreciate it and really fun to talk with you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I look forward to talking with you both in future options.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as the series goes on, because I don't know that I'm going to be able to get back to you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: If either of you open invitation emails or voicemails, send them in and I'll make sure to include them in cool episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think they go along.
[SPEAKER_04]: So great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Great.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got the full tooth anniversary of Aliens penciled in David.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we're going to have to do some serious special coverage for that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alright gentlemen, thanks very much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for joining us for our coverage of Alien Earth Season One.
[SPEAKER_04]: We hope our conversation is added to your enjoyment of the xenomorphic mysteries and the many layered allegories that Noah Holly has brought to the series.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Kahi W, the Stu, Jeffrey B, Elisa U, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Steven N, Julia F, Kali S, Il Mariel, Ford slash Tim, Paul K, Bobby C, Jessica H, and always last but never least, Adrienne.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening.