[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy, I am so tired.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had such a long day because yesterday we had quite the misadventure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we got stranded a few hundred miles from home in a car that we were pretty unfamiliar with.
[SPEAKER_02]: Without the correct parts to get us back on the road in like eighty five degree heat, ninety degree heat.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was a pretty big day.
[SPEAKER_01]: A rainstorm and a rainstorm.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll tell you, and of course, uh, diarrhea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a lot of diarrhea.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of diarrhea.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, for our three hundred episode, let's talk about the pitfalls of buying classic cars because there are a lot of mistakes you can make and we have done them all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, we did them all in one day, which was pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was pretty amazing, but we managed to fill all of the mistakes into one day.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have to say Tommy, most people when they buy a classic car,
[SPEAKER_01]: would probably not fly down a thousand miles to go drive it back a thousand miles without actually having a pre purchase inspection and yet that was a very first mistake we made so let's take a step back and let's go back to a car that we bought like a month ago which is the Dodge Viper the very first generation the ninety four that we own
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we bought this RT-Ten Viper to do a series on TeeloClosix with as a really cool car, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was one of the top-dog American performance cars of the nineteen nineties.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we thought it would be cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had this idea a little bit after buying that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And everything went right with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought it here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Found it on Craigslist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the car was everything the owner said it would be and more and we had a really great experience it's been bulletproof I spent a little bit of money on it because it didn't have the right wheels but this is not a big deal so we found the right wheels we found the right tires I also was pleasantly surprised when the
[SPEAKER_01]: Car had this like, you know, really goofy Kenwood radio with on the lights and light up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the owner said, I think there's something else in this box.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I opened the box and it was original radio.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had that put in just a delightful experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a car that is every bit is good and has every bit is fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it would be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the owner also, without even mentioning in the ad, had both the soft top and the hard top.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, those hard tops are worth a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought the car for Forty K, which is, you know, for a Viper, not that bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's kind of top of the market for that car.
[SPEAKER_02]: You think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think the reason that that car was so good is because we paid all the money for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen them up as much as the roadsters, at least.
[SPEAKER_01]: The GTs are more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like GTS is all like sixty.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they're like ninety.
[SPEAKER_02]: But a roadster, I think an early roadster like ours, even with the low miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Forty is kind of all the money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe forty five on an auction site.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, I think we got lucky with a car and that it was very well-loved and very well maintained.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we also really paid out the nose for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we've got a fair price.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the guy threw in everything that he had.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have the soft top.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have the hard top.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that car is in great condition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything works on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one issue with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that, I mean, you're never going to buy a classic car, even.
[SPEAKER_01]: sub or post million dollars without some issues, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Every class of cars can just come with a slew of issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: This one has one issue and it's not a big issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very much a viper issue when you first go to start it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just cranks because it takes the fuel pump a little bit of time to get the fuel into the two issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the other issue?
[SPEAKER_01]: Air conditioning doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that's pretty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently the air conditioner even when did work wasn't very
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we bought this Viper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we thought it'd be really cool to find the stable made of the Viper.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can do some really neat videos if we can track down a C for Corvette zero one, which was King of the Hill back in the nineteen nineties.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what Chevrolet called the C for zero one.
[SPEAKER_01]: They both had about four hundred horsepower.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have been a direct competitor to the Viper.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and they were both very expensive machines.
[SPEAKER_02]: When the C-Four Z-R-Won launched in nineteen ninety, it was one of the fastest cars on the planet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not even for American cars, and it tops beat of a hundred and eighty miles an hour, to zero to sixteen under five seconds.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's set all these endurance records by traveling, um, twelve hours, twenty four hours at averaging over a hundred and seventy miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was an amazing performance machine
[SPEAKER_01]: LT-five overhead cam V-eight really a cool car and pretty hard to find they only built about sixteen and hundred from five years from nineteen nineteen nineteen ninety five so they're not that common and now with the news here one coming out we thought it'd be a good time to get that classics here one it also has this cool feature where you get a key and you can change the horsepower from uh... basically low power mode to high power mode what is that all about how does that work well this year one in the LT-five was a
[SPEAKER_02]: real technological marvel, especially for General Motors, who had been producing largely the same architecture small block for many, many years.
[SPEAKER_02]: So General Motors at the time owed Lotus, and they went to Lotus and said we'd love to do an overhead cam engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Lotus took their L-n-Eight C-Four engine at the time, put overhead cam heads on it, and it didn't work.
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't fit in the car, because C-Four engine is not from underneath, and the assembly line didn't fit through the wheel well to frame us, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: So then they designed an all-ground-up new engine called the LT-Five, which was dual overhead cam based on an engine they already had in development.
[SPEAKER_02]: Problem is they had the wrong bore centers, so then they did it again so they could keep with GM small lock heritage, you could get those standardized bore centers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what you ended up with was a five-point-seven-liter small box V-eight that was in all aluminum construction with sixteen fuel injectors.
[SPEAKER_02]: sixteen intake runners and three throttle body.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you turn that key at enables eight of the sixteen intake runners and injectors.
[SPEAKER_02]: How many valves?
[SPEAKER_02]: Thirty-two valves total.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a magnificent engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a moonshot for GMF.
[SPEAKER_02]: Three energy force power.
[SPEAKER_02]: The crazy thing is is, Lotus didn't have the capacity to build it.
[SPEAKER_02]: GM didn't have the facility to build it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So GM then took that Lotus design and went to Mercury Marine.
[SPEAKER_02]: to their mercruiser division, and a lot of experience doing aluminum boat engines, and the mercruiser largely hand-built the LT-five specifically for the zero-one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then the car, I'm kind of uninterestingly looked very similar to the regular C-four.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where I think GM kind of screwed up because they didn't make it look as, I would say, fierce as the engine was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reasoning I've read behind that is they didn't want to outstage the standard core of a buyer.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they didn't want the standard core of our to feel like they're getting second fiddle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is the dumb thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: We know now that core of it buyers love having differentiation in their cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't mind being out stage by zero six or zero one or z-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f
[SPEAKER_01]: These little black tabs next to the license plate that let you know that it's a ZR one because it's wider and they had to put something in there and so they put these like little black tabs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and it has got the center high amount of stop light instead of the brake light in the rear fascia.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there are ways to tell ZR one for normal C-four.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you know you know
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then, like, there was a lot of other changes, like, it had three, fifteen with rear tires, which was insane.
[SPEAKER_02]: It had, um, standard sport bucket seats.
[SPEAKER_02]: It had, uh, I get to sell it in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, eighteen way active system.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it really advanced stuff for the nineties.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, very electronically controlled, but it was an amazing car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just didn't look amazing enough, but how much did regular C forecast?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was about twenty eight thousand dollars and how much if you got the zero one there was a zero one package how much of that cost roughly doubled it so stand a corporate thirty
[SPEAKER_02]: Zero one option package the single most expensive option ever installed in American cars another thirty grand so it was a sixty thousand dollar car and then the one we bought somebody actually paid twenty thousand dollars over sticker when they originally bought it and today's money how much would that be so the sticker on the car sixty one grand that's about a hundred fifty eight thousand dollars to raise money but the original owner bought it for eighty five thousand dollars which is the equivalent of two hundred and twenty two thousand dollars is what someone paid for this Corvette
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we found this one in Phoenix, and I love Phoenix because it allows us, I love flying down and then driving home.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's one of the, for me, more than the car, the experience is what I really value.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the chance for me and my son here could go pick up a dream car, one of my dream cars on my birthday, right, which it was my birthday was an opportunity to go to miss.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we, you know, when I bring it trailer, we found this car and
[SPEAKER_01]: And without a pre-inspection purchase, we purchased it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the problem with bring a trailer is that you get a lot of pictures.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you know what you're doing, you can make a car look really good without knowing what the internals are, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So the exterior and the interior are fabulous.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many miles on our car?
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... twenty six thousand which is great right for that thirty five-year-old car twenty six thousand miles uh... but you know you don't know what's going on with the mechanically which we will get to in a second so for me it was kind of a bucket list on my birthday flight on the phoenix pick up this car uh... drive to mowab uh... halfway
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's worth noting to the, like realistically, bring a trailer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cars and business and all these sites recommends that you get a pre-purchase.
[SPEAKER_02]: But nobody does.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it, it's, in the real world, especially when you're a thousand miles away facilitating that owner to take time out of their day to go bring the car to some mechanic.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't know if you can trust the mechanic.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't know anything about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you bring it to his buddy, you just don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to go look at the car, and then to something that over the phone, and then you got the auction ending in three days when we found this car, it's realistically, I know we shouldn't be doing it, but it's very difficult to make that happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: So these cars are coming up in value.
[SPEAKER_01]: We paid twenty-seven thousand dollars for ours.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go to Hagrid, it says it's worth like twenty-three thousand, and I always feel like that there's like a twenty-five percent premium, at least when you buy stuff, I'm wearing a trailer.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know there's just this like bring it like a restaurant sheen when you go to restaurant in foods there's a bring a trailer sheen on these cars and I always feel like you're overpaying but having said that they're not easy to find it's like when you bought that World War II Jeep right you're not gonna find one probably on your local Craigslist or you might but it's gonna be far in few between
[SPEAKER_02]: And realistically, if you go to BAT right now, it just type in C-four, Z-R-one.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you look at some of the prices that these things are commanding.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're pretty big money.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let me just run down some of the recent sales.
[SPEAKER_02]: So one sold for twenty-nine, one sold for twenty-seven, five, one sold for forty-five, thirty-two, forty-five.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they can be anywhere from twenty-five to like fifty.
[SPEAKER_02]: This one sold for fifty-three even.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, pretty bit one sold for a hundred.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, they can be very expensive, and it's because they're very interesting cars, not that many made.
[SPEAKER_02]: Only sixteen-and-hundred.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of them are pretty little miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very few of them have miles on them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were just kind of stored and not driven as collector's items.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I mean, they're expensive cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah so the first problem came right away and that is you came to pick me up at like six in the morning so we could fly down there and get there early so we could drive back up and you had you were having some stomach issues you were having a little bit of a diary I believe yeah so that was already a bad sign and it should have been a precursor or a premonition of what was to come or foreshadowing on my dad so we get on the plane and the plane is of course delayed and actually we got very lucky I guess there was a hub
[SPEAKER_01]: boob is that what they're called basically huge sandstorm in Phoenix yeah so we get the Phoenix we Uber over to the owner um my bank doesn't like when I send money orders because they they feel like if you transfer money um be like a wire didn't like wires because once that wire has gone so luckily our bank was also in Arizona so we had agreed to go to my bank and then we would cut a cashier check at the bank for the twenty-seven thousand dollars which reassures the owner that the money is in the
[SPEAKER_01]: account because once you in on a cashier's check once you cut out that cashier's check they take that money in your account and you can't like you can force them you could but which is why people don't like cashier's check but if you do it at the bank it's pretty hard to for yeah yeah unless you have some kind of Sarah Fisher's agreement with the bank teller
[SPEAKER_02]: And listen, the big problem with this whole process is that we had to be back in Boulder Tuesday night.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we had two full days to drive a thousand miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that includes flying out, looking at the car, buying the car, getting the title sorted, and then driving it a thousand miles back to Colorado.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we were very much under time crunch.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we got there to quick look at the car and it looked fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the owner was wonderfully polished it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like a ten.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a two owner car.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it lived in California, which is great for much of its life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think the Arizona owner had owned it for five years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it really like visually.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty much flawless.
[SPEAKER_02]: The salad's been a wheels are great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tires are new.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have some service records with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Interior is perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the original window sticker.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's got both tops.
[SPEAKER_02]: So visually it looked great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did want to just take it for a quick drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though technically we were committed to buying that car because that auction and then that right like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: that we were on the hook for twenty seven dollars for that car, but hopped in it, started out, started first try, took it around the block, first gear second gear third gear got out the fifth felt pretty good and it was cold, fired up, transmission was cold, all good, right, parked the car, go to the the bank thing, right, come back and get in the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that's where things get a little sketchy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so we got there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were like, okay, there's like five different things, you know, that are good about the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's of course the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: We thought the engine was strong, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the transmission, there's interior, there's the exterior, and then there's kind of just the overall feeling that the car gives you and all five of those things when I saw it were
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, we got really lucky.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got another Viper.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, you know, living a good life.
[SPEAKER_01]: So God has rewarded me on my birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Little did I know that that was not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, so we get in the car and the first issue that I had, even though the test drive is, it's got these sports bucket seats.
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't the test drive at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is after we bought it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I noticed it on the test drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is, if you're aware of like modern BMW competition seats, or Porsche competition seats, so these bucket seats that have very high side-sills on the side, and then, of course, very much bolsters on the side as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're looking at these pictures, you can see that the vet has kind of a confusing array of buttons to control how the seats work.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the right side, there's these three little buttons which are unmarked, on the left side, there's two buttons which are unmarked.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm figuring out the test drive what I can do is I can
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of open up the side bolsters and the bottom bolsters so that my big fat American ass fits into them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I get in the car and I drive back and the first thing I do is I figure out how to open up the side bolsters and I'm like, wow, that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's much more comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're no longer squeezing me on my side.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now the problem is that I'm not sitting in the seat.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sitting on top of the seat because the side bolsters are open but the bottom bolsters are closed and there is no way to open them up.
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, if you have a big ass like me, you either sit with one cheek in the seat, or you sit with both cheeks kind of resting on top of those bolsters, which is not a comfortable way to drive for a thousand miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the other issue we figure out, especially the transmission warmed up, is that the first gear grinds.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can kind of sort of get around it by going in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, we think, in my opinion, the sync row is probably gone bad on first gear.
[SPEAKER_01]: first gear synchro's gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can use the second gear synchro to get into first smoothly, which basically shifts into second and first, but the first gear synchro grinds.
[SPEAKER_02]: First gear works, like it holds, it doesn't pop out, it accelerates, like it should, but it does grind going into first.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was like the first kind of really big disappointment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was, I take floor responsibility, I feel really bad about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I should have driven the car more on this has drive and experience more that transmission.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the owner kind of kind of gave us a hint we should have listened.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, never downshift in the first.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, well, maybe that's like a ZR one thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But basically what it is is you can't downshift into it because the sink goes gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is it doesn't have a standard core of a transmission.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's got a ZF six, but it's like a difference.
[SPEAKER_02]: ZF six compared to a standard C four.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's going to be a, it's going to be a very expensive fix to get that thing back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a specialist to work on these, but it's not going to be like you take it to your local.
[SPEAKER_01]: transmission chop and have that single fixed it might be a transmission out fixed if we wanted not live with it So that was kind of disappointing like I don't blame the owner I blame us right we bought this car sure we should have known better I don't think that guy was being dishonest I just think he had the car and he used it to drive You know on the weekends the cars the coffee it's one of those cars where or I think he probably spent more time polishing the exterior than fixing the interior
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the interior, I mean, actually even though he did tell us he spent ten thousand dollars replacing injectors and putting on new tires so I could be wrong about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think when you mean interior probably mean like engine and you know mechanics.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah mechanics of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that there's a lot of really good things about the car like it's a very straight car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got a pretty good ownership history, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Engine feels pretty strong suspension, excellent brakes are good, steering is really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like we learned pretty quickly that that transmission is going to need some love and I was hoping maybe we could get away with like maybe it's just like a master cylinder for the clutch master that's gone bad, but that's been replaced that's been gone through so that tells me that this has probably been a persistent issue for quite some time But regardless and you don't need first it's not a very you know pop up kidding.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's first is a pretty big one
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but so we went and we took the car and we went to our favorite hot dog chain in Phoenix.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't want to I don't want to so this here's a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we went to portillos and I'm from Chicago and I love portillos and I had my Italian beef which is great and then like eight hours later I was fertilizing Northern Arizona on Southern Utah jumping out of the car luckily you had brought some toilet paper because I was having issues a little bit earlier.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I could have been that we just both got a stomach flu.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, or I'm also using that like nanosamping but like the like something like goes and I'm think which is supposed to make you thin and sick to your stomach which it has accomplished that not the first one yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be it could be the drugs that I'm on you know to try to get
[SPEAKER_01]: some weight loss or it could be whatever I ate but anyway it turned out to be a pretty bad like you know like I couldn't make it when I had to go I had to go I was like it was like pull over now Tommy and running to the bushes and you know do my thing and then run back into the car so that was already unpleasant but before we even got to that part of the journey we did the great pillow hunt
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because we got our hot dog, we got gas, we had some stomach issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the big thing is, we, those seats, even for me, and I'm a pretty skinny guy, like those bolsters are pretty unlivable.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I know case had this car and he, he lived with them, but I just, the bottom bolsters are so tight that after two, three hours of squeezing your, your hips, like you, you just want to be out of the seat.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we had the idea, well let's see if we can find a pillow to kind of elevate us above the worst portion of the bolster, which is against the bottom.
[SPEAKER_02]: So first we went to a tractor supply.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a closest door.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we found two pillows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, so we got like a little outdoor pillow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that actually worked for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But did the trick for me, yeah, because it elevated me like an inch off the cushion and then I was pretty comfy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it could be also how was you way?
[SPEAKER_02]: and one eighty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am a lot of seventy pounds more than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know that's part of the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be that my big ass was squishing the pillow too much, but you combine the that problem with the fact that the wheel well is super tight.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just listening to Doug's podcast and he was driving his
[SPEAKER_01]: Kuntos around Pebble Beach and he was doing it without shoes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember when we did that Mercy Alago video and they got showed up and he didn't have shoes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there was something like in the nineties where all these super cars had very tight footwells and this is no exception.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not as tight where you can't drive it with your shoes, but once you put both feet into the footwell, they're not going anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now I'm like one cheek into the seat, one cheek out, one foot into the
[SPEAKER_01]: well one foot out of the foot well because like two don't really fit and I'm kind of you know going between one cheek to the other cheek and it was just freaking miserable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got these pillows and it made it better but then I was able to kind of raise myself within the problem because in my head hits the ceiling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so we drive from Phoenix to Flagstaff, Arizona, and then go for the great pillow hunt again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we we find a JC Penny and then a huge variety of pillows and a horrible, horrible rainstorm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really this car's not seen rain in like five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's seen right in twenty years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at this thing got just drenched.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, when you got drenched, the TPMS like came out, which we were, I guess is a common failure point on these, but we were like, hey, it doesn't have the TPMS failure point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, the second I got away with the TPMS like came out.
[SPEAKER_02]: We came out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we, we found a JC penny.
[SPEAKER_02]: We went on this great pillow excursion.
[SPEAKER_02]: We tried the tempered pillow and the normal down pillows and all these different types of pillows.
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally I found a memory phone on sale for fifty bucks settled on the memory phone and then put in the car and that was that kind of solved your problem for most of the trip well it solves one problem the other problem is when this car was built they wanted to make a target top and this came with the two tops but unlike most target tops you have to have a tool to actually put it in place because it's actually a structural part of the vehicle yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: And to solve the fact that they had a target top, they made the sills super tall.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so back in the day, the reviewer said you either climb out of it or fall into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's absolutely true.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now I've got this tiny seat with this pillow that I'm trying to position underneath myself as I'm trying to climb over this like ten foot tilt to get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just a comedy of air is getting into the car and getting the pillow actually positioned in such a way that blood circulation is not cut off to either one leg or the other.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was not, it was not a very poetic way to, you know, get in and out of the cover.
[SPEAKER_02]: But to the car's credit, like we did drive it from Phoenix to Moabu to that was our plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was about a seven and a half hour drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it did that, I was like, four hundred miles, four hundred fifty miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's your in fifth or six.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it was a pretty good cruiser, like it's very stable on the highway.
[SPEAKER_02]: The next is suspension works.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, you've got comfort, sport, and then performance, and that really does change the whole character of the suspension, which is very impressive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was a great road trip car at seventy, seventy, five, eighty miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it got pretty good fuel economy like when you had on the highway in six, do you do over twenty one twenty two and PG so like there's really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the like the the part that was the riskiest of this drive is like flags to have to mow ab you go through the reservation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's nothing there.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just, there's two but sitting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's Monticello right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but there's like almost no city like hundreds of miles of just kind of desolate desert.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that would have been a really, really big problem if it had broken down in that stretch.
[SPEAKER_01]: The way that it did when we were about to tell you how we did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it did, it made it through that section and it did great, drove it into Utah, running great, got to the place that we stayed at about ten PM.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you follow us, we bought like a little two bedroom apartment because we spent so much time there, so we have a little bureau in Moab, so we got there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was happy to have a toilet, which was, you know, it was a God sign.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, okay, no more jumping in out of the car, dealing with the pillow, and then I spent the whole night, of course, on the toilet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's not good.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was bad night, but we get up in the morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got some internet guys come to do some stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, well, let's go take it to breakfast and then we'll go hit the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, we're going to go get some ammonium, so I didn't have to.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we're going to go to Walker Drive, which is like the biggest store in Moam.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and there's not a lot in Moam, but there's a little drug store and there's a, there's a not a part store and there's, you know, some restaurants and stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we drive the five minutes from our place down the hill in the town.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is important because now the car is cold.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like becoming
[SPEAKER_02]: It is cold.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going down the made road, everything's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pull into the parking lot, everything's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then as I'm parking the car, I notice two things.
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, the steering is really heavy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's a little ding on the dash, just check gauges.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you look at the warning panel, there was a battery charge light on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're like, oh, we can be experienced.
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought a Mercedes and George and drove back and had the alternator go out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can't drive without an alternator, at least not very far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, yeah, you're kind of stuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of stuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're like, oh, so I'm like, hey, let's open the hood in a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to open the hood like all this like smoke comes out to underneath the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: and Tommy had turned it off and I'm like, wow, what's going on?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, Tommy turned it on.
[SPEAKER_01]: The second you turn it on, I look down and the oil line between the oil cooler and the engine has become disconnected and now the car is pulsing oil out all over the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, at high pressure, like a car artery, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole engine is covered in oil, the whole underside of the car is covered in oil.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went through, like, I think it takes seven and a half quarts.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went through seven and a half quarts in like, twenty-two seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, and then I said, one, it went out of the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we got in, in retrospect, we got incredibly lucky that it didn't happen in the middle of the desert at night, which would have been a big problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: And be that it happened when we were basically parked, because you could see in the parking lot where that line had let go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: because maybe fifteen feet from the Valdeze, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The parking spot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's like a puddle and then a huge stream of oil into the parking spot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the problem is to the oil cooler line, like you mentioned, connects the oil cooler with the fuel filter assembly, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is a line that that's the fitting on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a not on one end, and then it goes into the oil cooler on the other end.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a crimped line, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got like this little nipple that it's crimped to with the not on the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a part that's designed to be replaced as a whole part, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not something that you can replace just the rubber tube and cotton.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then to come out of the engine side.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it come out on the engine side and the high pressure line and the low pressure actually if you look at it was also starting to come on crimpton working its way off that that that side as well So like clearly it needed oil Coolant lines and it had soaked the alternator and oil so we so
[SPEAKER_02]: And literally the reason the alternator like him on the parts during the heavy is the serpentine belt just became a river.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we didn't at that point we didn't know yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we thought was we didn't have any oil in the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have a way of getting that part because you're not going to get that part for a zero one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we certainly didn't know whether the alternator was working or whether the serpentine was coated in oil so that it was just slipping.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't know any of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at this point, we're arguing because we're like, what the hell do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And Tommy said to himself, I can fix this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you decided that you could fix this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was decided that you couldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was reaching a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, of course, to have ends opened up and it started pouring.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I didn't fully understand that at that point that the little brass insert on the rubber hose had come on crimp from it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You thought that that would tighten on that rubber brass fitting and then you could, I thought it just backed off.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I went out the rain and I stuck it back on there and you know, started the engine and like it, there was no oil coming out of the engine, but like it, there was no oil in the engine at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's very little oil in the engine, but I think it was important to realize like this was not,
[SPEAKER_02]: clearly some nerd putting it back on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just going to fall right off again.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, went to the nap oughta part store and they're like, we could probably get you one by Thursday.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was Tuesday.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was not going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the problem was Moab is not far enough from the office to more waiting a full day or a couple days for part.
[SPEAKER_01]: Six hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: And luckily, we're very fortunate.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a team here.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got Andre and we've got case.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got trucks and we've got trailers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it would have made more sense to just to have them come drag us back home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so my solution was come get us guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're stuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're stranded.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please help.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course Andre and case were like, yeah, we can help you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which is great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, as we call them, they said, all right, we'll go get the trailer, we'll go hooked up.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I don't know, ten in the morning at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm reading what's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: About six and a half hour drive from our home base to where we were at.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're like, well, let's do a video because we have to document this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we start filming.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this guy comes up with a nice guy named Matt and said, hey, watch channel, big fan.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like, oh, that's super nice of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to chat.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like, so what do you do here, Moa, Matt?
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, why am I mobile mechanic?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, you are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, hello.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I was like, do you mind looking at the car for us?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because clearly, like, us two numscals aren't going to do much with it?
[SPEAKER_02]: We could be saw with the problem as we could see a potential fix would be new lines, but like we couldn't get the new lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what do we do?
[SPEAKER_02]: So he goes by and takes a look at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably going to be a problem because we can't get those lines at any time soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're like, all that's about where he's like, but listen, like, I've got a day off waiting for part for another project.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he basically, let me see what I can do, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was talking to him, and he had this idea, which was a great idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, maybe what we can do is we can just remove the rubber portion of that line.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're going to left with two fittings, one on either side.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then maybe we could find a rubber hose.
[SPEAKER_02]: of the same diameter, bridge that gap, and then find some kind of semi-permanent clamp that can clamp the hose to the little nipples.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, keep in mind, this car has clamps that are holding the hose onto it, but they're the special clamps that once you put them on, they don't come off.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like crimp clamps.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know much about these clamps, I haven't seen them.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're like a more permanent solution.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when he was looking at it, he laid out the capoise, like, well, look at this side, and it's crimp clamps on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I was looking for the parts of this car,
[SPEAKER_02]: There shouldn't have been any clamps in the middle should be one piece.
[SPEAKER_02]: So clearly this holds us fallen off before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll be able to fix it before and poorly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the side that that fix was holding the other side that it didn't fix was falling off.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he took the hose and then went in the town to try to find those crimp clamps basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which was scary because eighty pounds of pressure is a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and their failure runs a lot of oil pressure, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's all coming through that little pipe.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he comes back with a hose and then he comes back with like just to stand a little worm gear clamp.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the ones that you screw on right, got a little wrench on and they tighten.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was talking to Kase who's kind of our see for a guy at the office about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he has tried something like that as a quick fix on a landowner went at broke.
[SPEAKER_02]: And those little clamps
[SPEAKER_02]: Typically, fall right off because they're not designed to hold coolant pipes, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you'll see them on your car, but they're like a coolant or they're someone else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not pressurized.
[SPEAKER_01]: I press your oil line, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So Matt doubles up on either side.
[SPEAKER_02]: We really crank it down.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, this, this might get you home.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we say, thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: We pay him for his time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the hard part is, we look, we dump like six and a half, seven courts of oil in that parking lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: All over the place, I was just like I say, it was an oil disaster.
[SPEAKER_02]: But thank God, we were next to an apple.
[SPEAKER_02]: A grocery store, a hardware store, and an apple.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which had a bathroom, thank God for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is good for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, what was good is they had like the oil soakup stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was able to go to the US in the nap, and you bought like the big bag of the oil soakup.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we spread it around the parking spot that we had ruined.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let it soak in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we spread around the second parking spot that we had ruined.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because it kept dripping, spread around that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I went into the hardware store and I bought like a little broom kit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we cleaned it all up, as much as we could, given the circumstances.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of felt like we were doing an episode of Roadkill, except Roadkill would have had a supercharger on by the time we got cleaning up the oil that we spilled.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we paid someone to put on two hose plants.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another thing, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which, yeah, four hose plants.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we could have potentially driven it, or tried to drive it all the way home.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the problem with driving at home is we have to go up two mountain passes, veil pass, and basically the icon lid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were afraid that if we did that, putting that much pressure,
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other problem is, the value in this car is the engine, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you lose those, at the parking lot, we lost all of the oil in about twenty-two seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine if you're doing eighty miles now or, and or seventy-five, going up by seventy, up veiled past and you lose that clamp.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be, you're going to be no place to park and you're going to blow the engine and you're going to be done.
[SPEAKER_01]: The car is going to be worthless.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we decided to keep case coming with the trailer and we would meet him halfway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So case laughed.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we ultimately met up outside of Glenwood.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the goal was like we meet up in a place before we hit the Rocky Mountains.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because going through the Rocky Mountains, that's going to need third, fourth gear, higher PM's, high oil pressure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's a good chance and it's going to blow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plus, I have an ease always on a construction.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if that pipe blue going to fail past when there's no shoulder, like you'd have basically you'd have to forfeit the engine to save the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plus, I'm visiting every bathroom along the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a pretty site.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: So case comes we loads a car from the trailer and then he drags his home and we got home late late last night and we're able to get the car unloaded and and it's still running and like that hose never let go but basically now the process we need to go find some new
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, coolant line hoses.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they make it work kit for it apparently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, mechanics.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they make like a. Well, cooler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, kids, so we could probably fix that ourselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't, that's not that hard, but the, the transmissions going to be harder to fix.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, so it turned out to be a bit of a disaster, a train wreck, but I had a member of a birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I will never forget.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll put it that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could have been way worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it could have blown up into a city, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it could have been way worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could have not had.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we had some wonderful people come by.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's because of how people were really nice because the hoods up and clear their soil on the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: The next is the part story.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a big fan of ours.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you need anything and I'm like, well, you know, it's a killer.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we don't get this thing sorted.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just joking.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it was an interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: moment in time and I'm really happy I got to spend it with you and even though everything kind of went wrong we did get the car back and I'm not upset at all about the fact that the gear I was upset I mean the funny part was like as we as a trip progressed you know we had those five points by the end of it it was of all the bodies good yeah exactly yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So the car, I mean, I think that there's probably, this is, this is the one figuring out, and the Viper is a little bit of an exception, I think, but not a total exception is like, these really little mile cars have a lot of problems.
[SPEAKER_02]: The most difficult car that we've ever had to drive in road trip was a brand new Honda Civic with sixty-nine miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: That nineteen eighty-four Honda threw up a fight every single step of the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is proof that like if you want a car to die no matter how good it looks, let it sit and don't drive it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think two things happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: First, cars age when they sleep, just like us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So things degrade, things deteriorate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just because it's low mileage and hasn't been driven, doesn't mean it's going to be ready to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's out of the showroom floor.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it's going to be the opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing that happens, and I see this quite a bit, is different maintenance, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: the more expensive the car is the more expensive the parts are and so in some ways it's a lot easier to you know to to shine it up then to go and replace the transmission so that's what people do I mean I think a lot of times people think that the car doesn't need maintenance
[SPEAKER_02]: because they'll say like, well, why would I service this?
[SPEAKER_02]: It only has eight thousand miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, it's eight thousand miles, but it's been sitting for twenty seven years, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, things are going to degrade.
[SPEAKER_02]: Parts are going to degrade.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plastics are going to fall apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or thirty five years in this case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing's getting heat-cycled.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's supposed to be so like the, I'm almost at the point now where like,
[SPEAKER_02]: when I'm looking for these classic or used cars like I would rather find one has fifty sixty seventy eighty thousand miles on it that one that has ten or fifteen thousand miles on it because I know that car's been driven and has had some heat and it has been used and then likely because of that has been at least somewhat maintained right
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think there's a limit once you get to two hundred thousand miles and you're going to have a lot of things are going to be used up a lot of the parts.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, like twenty thousand miles, twenty six thousand miles for a thirty five-year-old car, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this car is averaging eight hundred miles a year, which likely it's been a lot of those years not averaging any miles at all, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that we're going to get this car to a point where it's going to be very good.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not far off.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to complain about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got a good AC, mostly electronics work, man, just pretty good.
[SPEAKER_02]: The chassis is excellent, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we can get it there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of great things about this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is what happens when you let a car sit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would rather have a car with rock chips than a car with degraded everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the paint is good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of these cars, you know, we're driven hard and put away what?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so to have a car that, you know, the body is in good shape, in tears in good shape, is nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like I'm rationalizing which I perhaps am, but it's also a fun, then to take a car, the need some love and give it that love and then, you know, come out of the tunnel at the other end and see the light and see just how much you, you know, could have made this car so much better than when you bought it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a horrible sentence by the way, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_02]: so some comments about our adventure here on patreon and if you want to get to show early if you want to ask us questions patreon dot com slash tfl car we also have exclusive episodes like um... carish unbuckled which is live right now over at the patreon check that out um... don't says uh... roping really trying to own each generation i'm sure he thought he was getting a good deal and this one it looks like it's going to bite him in the butt i still think it's like a pretty good place to spark money
[SPEAKER_02]: I really don't think that.
[SPEAKER_02]: we're gonna lose a lot of money on this car because they only built sixy nine hundred of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're kind of having their moment in the sun with the new zero one out now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a really special car that's kind of undervalued.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think we're gonna lose some money because we always do but not that much money.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know there's this there's this collector world where you get into these hyper expensive cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the youtubers are dug is there with his Porsche and his.
[SPEAKER_01]: Quintai so is Matt right where it's hard to lose money on it because they're so expensive and they're so unique.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you get to a point where it becomes kind of the idea is that you buy classic car and then because of COVID and because of the fact that it's so sought after, no matter how much money you put into it, I think Matt is having his engine rebuilt in Italy for like fifty thousand dollars or something, then it will still maintain or increase in value.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not there Tommy.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not, we're the exact opposite of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we buy a car and we put money into it, it's probably not going to make money, but I'm okay with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really good with that because I'm making something that is broken into something that is usable and passing it onto you or the next generation of collectors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I never came from this world where you expect to fix a car and make money on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I expect to lose money on the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I don't lose a lot of money on the car, if we don't lose a lot of money on the car, I'm very happy because the car is the way it should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes my grandfather was like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: the way it should be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, in Donton on Patreon too, he said, I think you guys are falling into the YouTube car channel pit where you buy the high-performance cars and test them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand they are older now, but the only people buying these are people who can spend forty thousand dollars on a car that really should never be driven and kept in a garage.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like when you buy these older cheap cars you test them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, like I think my response to that is, first of all, we're doing a series on a fifteen-hundred-dollar cattle accurate.
[SPEAKER_01]: and a nine-hundred dollar true cell.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think we're far from that world down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, the bus burst your phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: We still have quite a few, but the reality of twenty twenty five is especially with the rate that an inflation is going like twenty seven thousand dollars is a lot of money, especially for what's largely a toy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a lot of objectively, it's a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a piece of automotive history.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's GM's moonshot, and it's the cost of a used Honda Civic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of money is when you're talking, like, Kuntash's, and... I mean, it's all relative, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all relative, but in the world of collecting cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, for me, twenty-seven thousand is a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, five thousand dollars is more realistic for someone like me, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also think that...
[SPEAKER_02]: For the experience you get, like you said, the average new car price now is twenty-nine thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or forty-nine thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who would you just bought a Bugatti Vera?
[SPEAKER_01]: He sold it because he said there's audience wasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's his name bought one too, L-U-Tuber?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ed Bullion just bought it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the world that we're lit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I appreciate what you're saying is for me it's a lot of money, but we don't live in your world.
[SPEAKER_01]: we live in the YouTube world where the Strandman and where Doug and where Matt are buying quintages, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is our world and we're competing for views in that world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think to do it with a twenty seven thousand dollars a year one is doing it on a budget and I also think in the classic car collector world in the meekam world and any, you know, if you watch those options, we are at the very kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: bottom of what most people will spend for a classic car that is more than just like, you know, let's say, you know, a fancy Camaro.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think we're seeing a lot of pushback on that now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I hope you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just saw who you video.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's selling that Bugatti.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's been paying a twelve thousand dollars a month on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's just an interest.
[SPEAKER_02]: But keep in mind, like what he was seeing is people want to see the cheap cars again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So like the car's he's buying now is a thirty-dollar, three-dollar mini van, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And old BMW, he got for free.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's the stuff I think that's getting interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're always coming into our world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're coming, he's always been in that world.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're not, we're not even close to the Veyron world time.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but that's like that is so far from us.
[SPEAKER_02]: We started in the whoopty world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what you guys are doing now.
[SPEAKER_01]: He did, but it didn't, how long, how long, how long are going to take him before you bought a clintosh, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't, ten years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and ten years ago, we were in buying quintages.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, but I'm just saying, like, I think to Dawn's point, there is a lot of interest on the really cheap cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I agree, but yeah, Hobi makes himself a lot to be the every man, but you look at his car collection.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Mercedes SLR, a BMW.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at the really expensive BMW that he had.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Z-eight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But these are very expensive cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's seeing that there's a lot of interest in the cheap stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why it's going back to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that we're never going to leave that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're not going to abandon the cheap cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have the money, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but look, that we're doing pretty well.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a CA Corvette and an IA.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but those are expensive cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but not compared to the world of veirons.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, but that's not our audience.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think our audience would want to watch that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where are you again?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to argue I just I guess I just take offense at you making you know who he has I like who be he's great But he has kind of this way of being kind of folksy and making himself seem like he's the every man But if you look at his car collection It is certainly nowhere near what an every man car collection would be
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, TadP brings up a good point of who we started in Hooptyland and followed the influence of Trent and we got a new exotics, but he admitted that's not what his audience was really into and has been rewarded with the more modest Hoopty.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a trend back now to more affordable cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which we're not going away from right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We still got Terry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a trend back?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it just him doing it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure there's a trend back.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a push against the expensive stuff these days.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every comment now on any new car we review is like these cars are too expensive, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there is genuine
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, there is genuine interest and excitement around that really affordable end of the spectrum.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just see hope you maybe, you know, you know, flew too close to the sun and so it got as wings burned and so he came back down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at look at what like to virus is doing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not doing cheaper stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's doing McLaren P. Wands, which is, once again, the same level as Bugatti.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think Bullion Bayeron as well, Doug Porsche-Nine-Ateen, Kuntash, Matt Ferra, Kuntash.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just spent a hundred thousand dollars on a mix.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the reason for this is because people on YouTube want to see interesting and unique, and I think crazy stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're doing it to ourselves, but what are the views on this or sell?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be limited because it's kind of, you know, it's kind of an every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: People like Terry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Terry is performing really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying he's not performing well, but in terms of views compared to what these guys are getting was very rounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not pulling a million views on a to sell time.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but we pulled nine million on a Model T.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got lucky with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, our audience, I think likes that because that's a ten thousand dollar car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just feel like, you know, we've always been what we've always been, which is kind of the every man channel, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't stray away from that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when Don says we're doing these super cars, I think to myself in YouTube world, it's not that super.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well let's move on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great.
[SPEAKER_02]: What else do you want to talk about?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want to talk about some of the other pitfalls of buying classic cars because we've bought a lot of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not really.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we should move on other stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've really hit the classic car thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about the Jeep Cherokee.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a new Jeep Cherokee out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: New generation called the KM, which is creating quite a bit of controversy online.
[SPEAKER_02]: Jeep is done this thing where they're trying to tie back to their Cherokee lineage and with the ex-gen they did this big reveal of this new Cherokee in New York where they had a barge and then they brought out all these old Cherokees and they brought out a little cool Jay and they're trying to do like this nineties thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I almost feel like they've gone a little too far with it because they're trying to lean deep into that heritage.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the car doesn't really reflect that heritage.
[SPEAKER_01]: How so what what about it doesn't reflect well what about that says jeep Cherokee Well, I'm I'm not talking about the design but does it have the off-road DNA that a Wrangler would have what that that's a font head, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what everything flows from doesn't have no is there a trail hog version?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just think that like
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they are working on for a hot person.
[SPEAKER_02]: They haven't announced anything, but like what made that old Cherokee so special is it was relatively affordable.
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, you can get into it pretty fortably.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it represented a lot of capability in a very simple package that was very accessible to everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was different than what Honda was doing with the CRM at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was different than what Toyota was doing with the introduction of the RAF IV, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very uniquely American with the Solidaxx look instruction and this really kind of flexible suspension setup.
[SPEAKER_02]: The new Cherokee.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure why I'd buy new Cherokee over like a RAF IV CRV.
[SPEAKER_02]: because it's got a lot of the same components.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a turbo four cylinder with the hybrid and a planetary gear set CBT.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just like it doesn't, it doesn't move the needle in any way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's relatively affordable.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it starts like in the mid to high thirties.
[SPEAKER_02]: It gets five hundred miles on a single tank which is cool, but
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like Jeep is falling in that trap where they went so far toward, like, this is what the consumers are buying.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's working for Toyota.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to work for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not sure that's the case with the Cherokee nameplate.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's no secret to me that Jeep has since Jim Morrison left, has gone through a series of different CEOs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that always signals to me that the company isn't sure where it should be going, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're trying to find a path forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the path forward is very straightforward.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very actually
[SPEAKER_01]: easy to spot if you know what to look for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And take a look at what's happening in the rest of the industry where Honda is coming out with these trail sport and Hyundai's coming out of these XRTs, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: These are all vehicles that are on road vehicles but have kind of an off-road heritage to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I should say heritage.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have an off-road sheen to them where they put on Navi tires where they put on
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe some recovery points and make a much more off-road worthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Jeep needs to lean in or double down on its off-road heritage and that all starts with the Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem was of course that Jeep had that world all to itself until the Bronco came along and the answer when the Bronco did come along was a refresh grill and a bigger screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think what Jeep needs to do is kind of go back, understand what its DNA is, which is the DNA of the Wrangler, and then have everything flow from that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So instead of leading with this Cherokee, they should have led with the Trailhawk.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure, right, that's the one that they shouldn't have came out with, because that would say to the Biden public,
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, and it's funny because everybody else is doing that and he had deep somehow was shining away from that and I'm guessing that may be because of Carlos, what's his name?
[SPEAKER_01]: To Boris.
[SPEAKER_01]: To Boris, who, who was looking at it from a very much a European standpoint and that American standpoint.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, for him, the things that were important was fuel economy and
[SPEAKER_01]: styling and, you know, all the values that probably sell cars in Europe and parkability, whereas he wasn't looking at it from an American point of view, which is it's all about what this vehicle says about me as a person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that, looking at that, that doesn't say, you know, even though it's, it's, you know, an overgrown field, it doesn't say if you, if you were to take away those weeds on this picture that we're looking at right now and put it into New York City,
[SPEAKER_01]: It would look just as comfortable there as it does in the wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I want is I want a car that wears car hearts and not a car that wears, you know, I don't know what's a brand that's very urban.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to go with a clothing brand for every twenty one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know American Eagle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just taking that from the news.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you see what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't scream to me off-roader.
[SPEAKER_01]: That just screams to me, you know, want to be off-roader.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so so make it make it make it make it make off-roading what your heritage is and the Americana make it you know and and still answer certainly knows how to do it in the ram you see anything that says Americana on this thing
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, apart from the seven-slot grill, it really could be any other brand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there is some criticism to be had here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think just Jeep needs to go back to figuring out what Moab means to the brand and how you take that DNA and sprinkle it into the rest of the... Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's my Jeep jerky.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, got anything else?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's a little bit of news that's kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bit that's kind of near and dear to my heart, because I have the split personality where I love off-roaders, but I also love sports cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this week, Nissan just announced the last G.
[SPEAKER_01]: What am I trying to say?
[SPEAKER_01]: GTR.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, GTR.
[SPEAKER_01]: The last GTR.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just rolled out the production.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm kind of sad about that because I kind of started my career at the same time at the current GTR came out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was about fifteen years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I gave her a take.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of sad to see it go away.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've kind of followed that car throughout all of its different versions, always listed after it right when it first came out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was
[SPEAKER_01]: A relatively affordable supercar that showed many of the exotics for our Lamborghini that you can spend seventy thousand dollars and have the same performance as a two three hundred thousand dollar car.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was very much every man kind of vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then finally last year or two years ago we got to go to Japan and I got to see the car called to there and I got to understand the GTR and that context.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm kind of sad that it's going the way I kind of think it became iconic and then it got very expensive because the last Nismo versions were what two hundred thousand dollars and then they became collectible so all those guys who collect cars and don't drive and start buying them because they knew I think those people are actually ruining it in a way a lot of the hobby for us all these people who are into the the one theme I saw at car week was one of one that was everybody just wanted the one of one thing whether it's you know
[SPEAKER_01]: the one of one singer or whether it's the one of one pagani.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the people who want the one of them, they don't drive them, they just collect them and then they eventually flip them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that could be the four GT, that could be the new Mustang GTD.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think to some extent, that could be the ZR one X. And I'm really sick of these super high price cars that only billionaires can afford.
[SPEAKER_01]: while the rest of us, you know, struggle to afford basic transportation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's become this kind of split thing where there's a billionaires in it and there's everybody else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think maybe that's my perspective because I just came out of car week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think car every kind of a little bit of a I mean when there's nineteen for our year fifties and you know one town.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's kind of drives a point home.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just drives.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's always been like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's always been like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's gotten a bunch of crazy over the years.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the nineteen twenties all these dozenbergs, those were one off cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you could look at it like that, like we're living in this gilded age where, you know, the high before the fall, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what happened in the nineteen twenties before the Second World War.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could be living in that kind of a time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just, I'm just tired of you have to beg for an allocation from Porsche to get a GT three.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to know somebody at four to get a GT D, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to be extremely wealthy and have bought
[SPEAKER_01]: Fifteen parasengues to get an FAD and I know most people don't aren't in that world But it bugs me that once upon a time you could still get a nine eleven and not that long ago for ninety nine thousand dollars and now the cheapest nine eleven's gonna be like hundred and thirty and I know that's still extremely expensive But it's just kind of a sign of the time and where are the affordable sports cars the Mustang
[SPEAKER_02]: People don't buy affordable support.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you got the GR-E-D-Sex and that I mean, it's a great car, but it's just not a huge seller.
[SPEAKER_02]: Miata, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of the same problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that like it's one of those things that people say they want, they want more affordable sports cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the fewer fewer people are buying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's my hot take.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miata is not the answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think everybody who's wanted Miata.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just had one at the office, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of feel like everybody who's had or wanted Miata has had a Miata.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and so the generations old.
[SPEAKER_02]: But wait till the next gen.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll, it'll come back into the interest.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think, I just think it's, so we had, I bought an NC, which is the largest of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I could fit into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you bought it from a company.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't drive it much.
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't drive it much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: for such a, the answer is Miyata, why did we barely drive it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think for me it's because I'm weird, and I just, like, that experience, like I like Model T's, and a Miyata person's not interested in the Model T, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, like, I think that, like, I just, a white car's as bigger experiences, so it wasn't for me, but it's not the answer for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but I think for most people is the answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I disagree.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you just want a fun sports car, it kind of does that perfectly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I had a wonderful drive in it going down the peak to peak highway and I read did that drive in our CA Corvette and I got to tell you I had a much more fun drive in the CA Corvette because there's this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this cliche right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more fun to drive a slow car fast on a fast car slow.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually more fun to drive the fast car slow than it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It drive the slow car fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the problem with the Miata, especially at peak to peak, elevations where you're almost at nine thousand feet above sea level, is it just doesn't have enough power.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're always upshifting, you're always trying to search, and then when you do try to pass somebody because they're going so slow, you touch a long runway to get past them, that it's just not fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, the car is lively, the car has a lot of handling attributes that make it fun to drive, but I don't fit in the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... there's no room for luggage uh... if you like and that's always if you're a big person me out is not the answer but i think if you fit in the middle of the model team he has not the answer if your model team person me out is not and if you're a big person me out is not the answer i just don't think it is anymore i think it's it's just been there done that you know what what there was a moment in time when i was young when my friend friend collected all these bready sports cars and you know these pretty sports cars right the roasters there's just yeah but they were terrible
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, bug-eyed spray.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they broke.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they broke.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they rusted, and they were bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they had Lucas Electronics.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Miana came in and did that formula correctly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that was wonderful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fred, my friend, Fred, it was into the body.
[SPEAKER_01]: He loved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The NA was just a wonderful car.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was like, thirty-five years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they kept that same formula.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just old and stale.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, anybody who's wanted one has had one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's time for something new and different and fresh.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that this me honestly have now a stale, but I think the me out of philosophy of small Nazi aspirated manual transmission, that's never going to go stale.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it's never going to go stale.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's like what makes a car guy a car guy is a small sports car you can drive yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that statement.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me, let me say it in the analogy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could say, like, bread is never going to go stale because people don't want to go stale.
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea of bread is never going to go stale because people always love bread and then you go to the bakery and there's all this bread and no one's buying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: People are buying bread, but I think bread is a pretty big seller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to the analogy, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying it's meata bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're analogous.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: People love bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but you go to the bakery.
[SPEAKER_01]: You go to the Mazda store and no one is buying bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why, but they're not buying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one is buying me at us.
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, the bread has gone both literally and figured that he's still because time has moved on.
[SPEAKER_01]: People have moved on and then they're bored of bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think people are buying bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that there's too many good past the that's your analogy.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's too many different types of bread, but people fundamentally.
[SPEAKER_01]: You will never let me with our lives.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because death is a dumb analogy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bread is like the number one food staple people buy at stores.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like food from milk eggs and bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what people buy.
[SPEAKER_02]: What am I missing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Milk, eggs and bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to get in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure that's what people buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: A call over there and you do this to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you buy bread?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Code is used to me to I bet this is a ramen noodle bowl.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a trader's yours.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty damn good dude peanut noodle bowl.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet it is, but I called him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't buy bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went and bought the noodle bowl.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he buys a noodle bowl and the bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think if we brought around a poll right now, draw me a comment below.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just type the word bread if you buy bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people buy bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: Quite famously, I think bread is very popular.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, look, I have a white bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make it even better.
[SPEAKER_01]: People still buy white bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: People love white bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single person I know buy white bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every single person I know buy white bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single person I know buy white bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, see, all right, wonder bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's us wonder bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just just too small.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the whole Midwest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew up in the Midwest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you grew up as a little weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a peeing kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know what your parents ate.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy, I think what I was saying is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because you can't stand to be wrong, you'll argue this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one is buying me out of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are no one.
[SPEAKER_01]: People are buying bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: Meotals are not popular.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bread is still popular.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think me autos are out of fashion right now because of me autos old.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just a car the concept is old.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We had this conversation back in the sixties.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you showed up, let's say with like some young hot thing in TR three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you were cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was cool, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you had this like, pretty sports car and it was something very different from all the muscle cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was very young in the sixties, but I'm guessing that if you had some, I think that's the young lady in the sun dress and you shoot up in this, try and tear three.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were just cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that car is just like some old professor in his eighties with that weird hat is driving it around.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no longer cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no longer happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go to see you, half the kids are driving me out of the cool kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: Seriously, the CU car club is like half me out of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: People love them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just like a staple.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think people love them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think people buy them because they're cheap.
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually think the bread and they're reliable.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which is fine, but they're also fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: The bread is a good analogy.
[SPEAKER_02]: You accidentally did a good analogy.
[SPEAKER_02]: He will not.
[SPEAKER_02]: He will not let me win an argument.
[SPEAKER_02]: The bread is a good analogy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you hear what I just said?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you're saying that because you won't let me because it's a flip of what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: The meata is bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what everybody says.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a boring little car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be underpowered and doesn't fit anybody and is past its prime.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, past its prime probably ten years ago, but he got to be it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're a cool car guy, then me out of the answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like saying, no, it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are other cooler cars that have become the damn dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those electric bikes that everybody's doing really is down Main Street on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are cooler than me out of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would argue that throughout history, a small two-door sports car is always been cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's cool today, you know why?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why the camera of that era.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's cool today, you know why not because I'm not saying they're big sellers.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just think they're fundamentally cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just think they're uncool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Back in the nineteen sixties, they were cool because everyone was in big yachts and the little cars interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now they're cool because everybody's in boring SUVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what's cool?
[SPEAKER_02]: What trucks?
[SPEAKER_02]: Trucks are cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Trucks are always been cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trucks are cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trucks are cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trucks are cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stop the presses.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trucks are cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trucks are what people for every me out of the Mazda cells, Ford cells, a hundred thousand crores.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, the me out is not, it's not the perfect car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just think as a staple of the sports car, in my opinion, it is still the answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's something old men drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, well, you should go see a car or what's the other time?
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we gotta go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cole, Cole, Cole, where are you going?
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me, come on, tell Tommy, he's going to Detroit and what are you looking at?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's looking at Rams, Tommy, Rams, that me at us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I bet he'd be happy if he was looking at me at us.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, we'll have a new world out here in the office.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: With the heavy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: You upset because you didn't win the argument?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm upset.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll just see you next time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna have some bread to have me.
[SPEAKER_01]: See you next time.