WEBVTT 00:05.967 --> 00:08.309 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 00:09.190 --> 00:14.676 [SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning. 00:24.354 --> 00:28.878 [SPEAKER_00]: When we go back and we read Tolkien, there's something that happens fairly often. 00:29.638 --> 00:32.881 [SPEAKER_00]: Come across antiquated words or phrases. 00:33.442 --> 00:44.091 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've taken a lot of time throughout the series to point those out and to try to explain the meaning behind them, the use of them in Tolkien's work and how all of that fits together. 00:45.031 --> 00:47.534 [SPEAKER_00]: But rarely do we get the opposite? 00:48.495 --> 00:56.921 [SPEAKER_00]: a phrase or a specific word that feels strangely current, something that we say every day. 00:56.961 --> 01:04.547 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know there are a lot of words in the text and through this book and all the other things that Tolkien has written that we use regularly. 01:04.587 --> 01:10.431 [SPEAKER_00]: We still use the word night, for example, or personal, or the sun, or closed. 01:10.531 --> 01:12.032 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this isn't what I'm talking about. 01:12.052 --> 01:13.833 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about a specific phrase 01:14.614 --> 01:20.403 [SPEAKER_00]: that seems more in the now than it does back then. 01:20.423 --> 01:23.428 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like something he probably wouldn't have said. 01:24.009 --> 01:29.357 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet in this section, this week, one of those phrases shows up. 01:30.098 --> 01:42.060 [SPEAKER_00]: And not only does it show up because it stands out from the rest of the text, it strangely has fit into our society, in our culture, in our current day use, in a way that still feels very current. 01:42.840 --> 01:50.822 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also the cornerstone of why Bilbo is able to help defeat smoke. 01:51.742 --> 01:56.423 [SPEAKER_00]: It also comes across a little bit awkward because, well, here's the phrase. 01:57.621 --> 02:00.082 [SPEAKER_00]: Every worm has his weak spot. 02:01.303 --> 02:08.946 [SPEAKER_00]: The use of the word weak spot here feels like something that we would say in today's society, especially among gamers. 02:09.246 --> 02:17.269 [SPEAKER_00]: When you fight a boss and has this glowing little section of, I don't know, the boss's face or midsection, you go, oh, that's the weak spot. 02:17.649 --> 02:25.893 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the place I need to target in order to do any damage or the most damage or whatever in order to beat this current boss. 02:27.053 --> 02:37.295 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, we look back at the Hobbit and Smalg functions in exactly the same way as video games had for the last forty years and still do today. 02:37.955 --> 02:40.536 [SPEAKER_00]: This feels strangely anachronistic. 02:41.036 --> 02:49.998 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's kind of out of place, but also that it is a strange thing that Bilba would have learned from his father. 02:50.918 --> 02:53.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Every worm has his weak spot. 02:53.741 --> 02:59.286 [SPEAKER_00]: He treats this like it's a nugget of wisdom that has been passed down from generations. 02:59.786 --> 03:12.158 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I guess if you are a farming society and you need to deal with worms, then you're going to have to get rid of them sometimes and have to target the thing that would get rid of them that would be their weak spot. 03:12.478 --> 03:14.679 [SPEAKER_00]: But it comes across kind of awkward, doesn't it? 03:15.019 --> 03:17.340 [SPEAKER_00]: And it seems kind of out of place. 03:17.860 --> 03:20.681 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet here it is in the middle of this text. 03:20.841 --> 03:28.143 [SPEAKER_00]: And it is the core of how Bilbo figures out what to do in order to defeat a dragon. 03:28.163 --> 03:30.364 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where this section begins. 03:31.364 --> 03:33.105 [SPEAKER_00]: What do the dwarves do? 03:34.065 --> 03:34.946 [SPEAKER_00]: about the dragon. 03:35.607 --> 03:53.182 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably the most important question out of everything that they've had to deal with so far, something that they should have probably determined before even leaving on the journey and yet here they are, confronted with a very angry, extremely smart and manipulative dragon. 03:54.063 --> 03:58.527 [SPEAKER_00]: And as usual, it all falls to Bilbo, to figure things out. 04:15.325 --> 04:18.606 [SPEAKER_00]: So as morning comes, they decide that they need to do something. 04:18.726 --> 04:19.726 [SPEAKER_00]: They debate what to do. 04:19.866 --> 04:28.827 [SPEAKER_00]: Thorne talks about the ponies and how they're lost or killed at this point, and that they still need to do something about getting rid of Smauge. 04:29.667 --> 04:35.889 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I just mentioned in the intro, the use of this phrase, weak point, which is brought up here right at the beginning of the section. 04:35.909 --> 04:43.770 [SPEAKER_00]: It says, which had always been a weak point in reference to getting rid of the dragon, a weak point in their plans as Bilbo felt inclined to point out. 04:44.630 --> 04:47.712 [SPEAKER_00]: interesting use of the word weak point, right? 04:48.232 --> 04:52.275 [SPEAKER_00]: But a weak point in your plans feels like a completely different phrase. 04:52.715 --> 05:04.322 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, hey, we have an organization we're putting together some sort of decision about what to do with the future of the company, but we didn't take this into consideration that is a weak point. 05:05.102 --> 05:08.145 [SPEAKER_00]: That feels like something that fits in Tolkien's time. 05:08.645 --> 05:25.099 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you use the phrase weak points in, say, the dragon as a part of the makeup of the dragon, the place where you're going to find the weakness, the place where you can get a sword hit in in order to wound the dragon, that's where it starts to feel an agronistic. 05:26.000 --> 05:45.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's interesting to note that the use of the word weak point is already in Bilbo's mind because he's been thinking about the weak point of the plan and yet when he determines what to do about the dragon that use of the concept of weak point is refocused from on the plan to on the dragon. 05:46.398 --> 05:48.199 [SPEAKER_00]: It's subtle, but it's genius. 05:49.282 --> 05:53.084 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the dwarves are upset here, and they start blaming Bilbo. 05:53.124 --> 05:54.065 [SPEAKER_00]: They turn on him. 05:54.625 --> 06:00.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a little while earlier, they were praising him for being able to steal some of the treasure back out. 06:00.389 --> 06:02.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of course, he is a burglar. 06:02.750 --> 06:04.591 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what he was hired to do. 06:05.231 --> 06:09.794 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, now, they think that the wrath of the dragon is all his fault. 06:09.854 --> 06:11.275 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's because they're upset. 06:11.355 --> 06:13.957 [SPEAKER_00]: It's because they are terrified and in danger. 06:14.917 --> 06:18.580 [SPEAKER_00]: What else do you suppose a burglar is to do, asked Bilbo angrily? 06:19.161 --> 06:24.445 [SPEAKER_00]: I was not engaged to kill dragons, that is warrior's work, but to steal treasure. 06:25.006 --> 06:26.767 [SPEAKER_00]: I made the best beginning I could. 06:27.087 --> 06:31.051 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you expect me to trot back with the whole horde of Thor on my back? 06:31.631 --> 06:35.575 [SPEAKER_00]: If there is any grumbling to be done, I think I might have a say. 06:36.235 --> 06:39.536 [SPEAKER_00]: You ought to have brought five hundred burglars and not one. 06:40.336 --> 06:49.539 [SPEAKER_00]: I am sure it reflects great credit on your grandfather, but you cannot pretend that you ever made the vast extent of his wealth clear to me. 06:50.339 --> 06:58.582 [SPEAKER_00]: I should want hundreds of years to bring it all up if I was fifty times as big and smug as tame as a rabbit. 06:59.262 --> 07:01.463 [SPEAKER_00]: The dialogue here is of course wonderful. 07:01.803 --> 07:06.884 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to get into the dialogue between Bilbo and Smauge in a little bit. 07:07.224 --> 07:08.585 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is just the beginning of it. 07:08.865 --> 07:14.466 [SPEAKER_00]: The way he defends himself, the way he justifies that their expectations are irrational. 07:15.067 --> 07:19.068 [SPEAKER_00]: You brought one small little hobbit in order to steal all of this treasure. 07:19.488 --> 07:21.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I stole some of the treasure. 07:21.788 --> 07:22.689 [SPEAKER_00]: I did what you asked. 07:22.829 --> 07:24.789 [SPEAKER_00]: And now you're upset that I'm not a warrior. 07:25.430 --> 07:26.370 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want from me? 07:27.170 --> 07:29.392 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, he can't win, no matter what here, right? 07:30.272 --> 07:34.415 [SPEAKER_00]: But fortunately, the dwarves calm down and they see his side of it. 07:35.076 --> 07:40.099 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Thorin politely says, well, then what do you propose we should do, Mr. Baggins? 07:40.820 --> 07:47.405 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, putting the onus on Bilbo to determine what to do, Thorin doesn't usually 07:48.145 --> 07:49.907 [SPEAKER_00]: Direct that away from himself. 07:49.967 --> 07:53.610 [SPEAKER_00]: He often steps up and says, OK, here's what we're going to do in this situation. 07:54.170 --> 08:03.679 [SPEAKER_00]: And when Bilbo usually comes up with a solution, it's because he's alone, or he has to kind of fill in because Thorin is exhausted from, say, the spiders or whatever. 08:04.580 --> 08:08.423 [SPEAKER_00]: But in this moment, he places it squarely on Bilbo. 08:08.463 --> 08:11.386 [SPEAKER_00]: The same way he might place it squarely on Gandalf. 08:11.466 --> 08:14.568 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've been seeing that trend build throughout the series. 08:15.409 --> 08:17.971 [SPEAKER_00]: Belver responds, I don't have an idea. 08:18.311 --> 08:20.693 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I don't know what to do about taking the treasure out. 08:21.013 --> 08:24.376 [SPEAKER_00]: And ultimately, we can't do anything until we deal with the dragon anyway. 08:24.836 --> 08:28.639 [SPEAKER_00]: So they continue to debate about what to do about their supplies, do they have enough supplies? 08:28.659 --> 08:34.263 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, they can stick around for a little while, do they dare go back out and get extra supplies come back in? 08:34.804 --> 08:35.784 [SPEAKER_00]: What else are they going to do? 08:36.365 --> 08:41.409 [SPEAKER_00]: What really can they do here other than weights and be careful and continue to survive? 08:41.829 --> 08:43.551 [SPEAKER_00]: But then Bilbo has an idea. 08:44.052 --> 08:45.454 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I will make you an offer. 08:45.794 --> 08:49.759 [SPEAKER_00]: I have got my ring, and I will creep down this very noon. 08:50.300 --> 08:56.849 [SPEAKER_00]: Then if ever smug to be napping and see what he is up to, perhaps something will turn up. 08:57.169 --> 08:59.092 [SPEAKER_00]: And then this is the quote. 08:59.452 --> 09:06.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Every worm has his weak spot, as my father used to say, though I am sure it was not from personal experience. 09:07.259 --> 09:18.808 [SPEAKER_00]: His father wasn't farmer, he wasn't one of the gambies, for example, but the seemed that this is a phrase that his father knew and would use regularly, which comes across kind of odd, especially because he's not a farmer. 09:19.469 --> 09:21.030 [SPEAKER_00]: But this was a plan. 09:21.650 --> 09:25.654 [SPEAKER_00]: Go down, see what he can figure out, maybe he can find a weak spot. 09:26.755 --> 09:28.036 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the right plan, too. 09:28.762 --> 09:32.564 [SPEAKER_00]: The narrator notes here also the change in Bilbo's status at this point. 09:32.984 --> 09:35.626 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, he had become the real leader in their adventure. 09:35.726 --> 09:38.848 [SPEAKER_00]: He had begun to have ideas and plans of his own. 09:39.428 --> 09:49.073 [SPEAKER_00]: The narrator also informs us that even though this seems like a good plan in Bilbo's taking the initiative here, it may not turn out how we expect. 09:49.173 --> 09:57.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Had he known more about dragons in their wily ways, he might have been more frightened and less hopeful of catching this one napping. 09:58.107 --> 09:59.649 [SPEAKER_00]: Dragons are clever. 10:00.510 --> 10:01.491 [SPEAKER_00]: We're reminded of this. 10:02.212 --> 10:06.216 [SPEAKER_00]: So he makes his way down and we can't forget how much courage this takes. 10:06.396 --> 10:08.779 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, he talks himself up on the way down. 10:09.139 --> 10:12.123 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, Old Smalg is weary and asleep. 10:12.423 --> 10:13.424 [SPEAKER_00]: He thought, well, he doesn't say it. 10:13.464 --> 10:16.808 [SPEAKER_00]: He thinks that he can't see me and he won't hear me. 10:17.249 --> 10:18.049 [SPEAKER_00]: Cheer up, Bill, though. 10:18.690 --> 10:44.520 [SPEAKER_00]: and so he's doing the best he can to push himself forward into this very dangerous situation and we're informed that dragons actually still have a sense of smell and he hadn't considered that plus they keep an eye half open to watch while they sleep and my dog does this but it's not because he's keeping watch it's because sometimes his eyelids don't close all the way but when it's dragon it's intentional and he was about to step out on the floor 10:45.620 --> 10:53.004 [SPEAKER_00]: When he catches, and this is interesting, a piercing ray of red from under the drooping lid of smells left eye. 10:53.724 --> 11:02.109 [SPEAKER_00]: It says if his eyes project light, and that's the giveaway for the fact that the dragon was only pretending to sleep. 11:03.552 --> 11:05.773 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, Smauke speaks up. 11:06.614 --> 11:11.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, notice he's invisible and yet the dragon knows that he's there. 11:11.917 --> 11:16.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably it's the sense of smell, but it doesn't say it in the text right here in this moment. 11:16.740 --> 11:20.463 [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of implies that the dragon sees him, but he has the ring on. 11:20.723 --> 11:21.483 [SPEAKER_00]: He's invisible. 11:21.563 --> 11:28.508 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not told that he kicks up any of the treasure off the ground or makes any notable movement in the room outside of himself. 11:29.068 --> 11:33.290 [SPEAKER_00]: So it must have been the sense of smell, which has soon revealed to us in the conversation. 11:33.790 --> 11:36.010 [SPEAKER_00]: And oh man, what a conversation this is. 11:36.491 --> 11:40.012 [SPEAKER_00]: This is golden, kind of like a big golden red dragon, I guess. 11:40.532 --> 11:46.934 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I want to do in the bonus episode this week is compare the text here to what shows up in the movies. 11:47.414 --> 11:49.655 [SPEAKER_00]: And find out, is it the same or is it different? 11:50.596 --> 11:51.836 [SPEAKER_00]: Spoilers, it's different. 11:52.176 --> 11:53.797 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not what's important right here. 11:53.817 --> 11:56.738 [SPEAKER_00]: What's important right here is how this conversation actually goes in the book. 11:57.558 --> 12:00.199 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thief, I smell you and I feel your air. 12:00.600 --> 12:01.740 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear your breath. 12:02.341 --> 12:02.841 [SPEAKER_00]: Come along. 12:02.981 --> 12:03.961 [SPEAKER_00]: Help yourself again. 12:04.161 --> 12:06.203 [SPEAKER_00]: There is plenty and too spare. 12:06.863 --> 12:08.084 [SPEAKER_00]: He's luring him out. 12:08.384 --> 12:08.944 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on out. 12:09.444 --> 12:14.307 [SPEAKER_00]: This shows that as much as he knows that there is somebody here, he isn't exactly sure where. 12:15.407 --> 12:17.008 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo responds, no thank you. 12:17.128 --> 12:18.589 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, smell the tremendous. 12:19.049 --> 12:19.629 [SPEAKER_00]: He replies. 12:20.130 --> 12:22.311 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is an important point. 12:22.791 --> 12:24.132 [SPEAKER_00]: He flatters him. 12:25.231 --> 12:29.372 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo has a natural sense of how to deal with the situation. 12:29.752 --> 12:37.975 [SPEAKER_00]: He understands that a dragon-like smug thinks very highly of himself, and that flattery naturally could work here. 12:38.795 --> 12:47.097 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have precedents for this, and some sort of story in Bilbo's background, somebody that maybe he dealt with earlier in his life and needed flattery. 12:47.217 --> 12:50.298 [SPEAKER_00]: But his natural response to this is correct. 12:51.177 --> 12:52.378 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not come for presence. 12:52.678 --> 12:57.540 [SPEAKER_00]: I only wish to have a look at you and see if you were truly as great as Tails say. 12:57.560 --> 12:59.201 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not believe them. 13:00.581 --> 13:02.962 [SPEAKER_00]: And Smout takes the bait a little bit. 13:03.002 --> 13:09.345 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's happy to toss words between them and kind of have a, I don't know, it's not really a combat. 13:09.385 --> 13:10.926 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not really even a verbal argument. 13:10.966 --> 13:13.067 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more of a game of chess. 13:14.048 --> 13:18.750 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know, said the dragon somewhat flatter, even though he did not believe a word of it. 13:19.650 --> 13:22.713 [SPEAKER_00]: But yet, he continues on with the conversation. 13:22.733 --> 13:27.397 [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of, goding, build a forward, and this works out a little bit for him in the future. 13:28.098 --> 13:32.722 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo responds, truly, songs and tales fall utterly short of the reality. 13:32.862 --> 13:36.005 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, smug, the chief disting greatest of calamities. 13:36.746 --> 13:44.848 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice that he even knows to call him things like tremendous, but also greatest of calamities. 13:45.328 --> 13:50.669 [SPEAKER_00]: That smell would be honored to be thought of as the greatest of calamities. 13:50.729 --> 13:56.910 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who can destroy large groups of people or parts of land. 13:58.050 --> 14:00.551 [SPEAKER_00]: That this is something that smell would pride himself on. 14:00.591 --> 14:02.111 [SPEAKER_00]: And somehow Bill Bo understands this. 14:03.250 --> 14:12.319 [SPEAKER_00]: You have nice manners for a thief and a liar, and so the supports it, the dragon thinks that this is a nice thing to say to him, although most people would probably take issue with that. 14:12.960 --> 14:17.264 [SPEAKER_00]: You seem familiar with my name, but I don't seem to remember smelling you before. 14:17.725 --> 14:19.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Who are you, and where do you come from? 14:19.947 --> 14:20.608 [SPEAKER_00]: May I ask? 14:21.529 --> 14:25.132 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Bilba has now peaked Smog's interest here. 14:26.013 --> 14:28.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Smog remembers the smell of dwarves. 14:28.437 --> 14:30.440 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows the smell of the people of Lake Town. 14:30.981 --> 14:35.608 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a giant dog who can recognize all sorts of different things by their scent. 14:36.812 --> 14:46.180 [SPEAKER_00]: You may indeed, I come from under the hill and under the hills and over the hills my path leads, and through the air, I am he that walks unseen. 14:47.161 --> 14:53.227 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo, defaults here, not to a direct answer, but to a riddle. 14:54.087 --> 14:57.330 [SPEAKER_00]: His natural inclination is to play a riddle game. 14:58.231 --> 14:59.452 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice the similarities. 14:59.912 --> 15:06.594 [SPEAKER_00]: He is stuck way underground in a cavern with a monstrous creature that is going to try to kill him. 15:07.435 --> 15:10.296 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, he deflects with riddles. 15:11.036 --> 15:15.237 [SPEAKER_00]: It worked with Golem and he's trying to make it work with Smauge. 15:15.998 --> 15:17.378 [SPEAKER_00]: He learned something there. 15:17.758 --> 15:21.760 [SPEAKER_00]: That is something he has precedents of in this exact story. 15:22.948 --> 15:24.048 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's see how it works out. 15:24.829 --> 15:26.829 [SPEAKER_00]: So I can well believe, said Smog. 15:27.549 --> 15:29.850 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is hardly your usual name. 15:30.830 --> 15:34.271 [SPEAKER_00]: Smog calls them out on it and it's like, come on, stop playing games, tell me who you are. 15:35.092 --> 15:38.433 [SPEAKER_00]: I am the Cluefinder, the Webcutter, the Stinging Fly. 15:39.033 --> 15:41.153 [SPEAKER_00]: I was chosen for the lucky number. 15:41.994 --> 15:46.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Lovely titles, sneer the dragon, but lucky numbers don't always come off. 15:47.075 --> 15:48.755 [SPEAKER_00]: He's turning his words on him. 15:48.775 --> 15:52.917 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just because you have lucky numbers sometimes doesn't mean you always get them, right? 15:53.517 --> 15:56.217 [SPEAKER_00]: He's also fighting against luck. 15:56.718 --> 15:59.398 [SPEAKER_00]: It's something you could potentially argue here. 15:59.518 --> 16:12.582 [SPEAKER_00]: The use of luck throughout the series, being tied to Bilbo and yet the dragon trying to kind of twist that, trying to move that around into the opposite direction of like, well, luck isn't always something you can rely on. 16:13.282 --> 16:22.365 [SPEAKER_00]: And so Bilbo continues with the riddles here, which I think is from an in-world perspective, he's got his attention, he's distracting him, so he's going to keep moving forward. 16:22.425 --> 16:37.230 [SPEAKER_00]: But from a kind of meta perspective, Tolkien sure loved to write this kind of stuff, and you could see him just sitting in his chair in like smoking a pipe, really enjoying how clever some of the things Bilbo's coming up with are 16:37.990 --> 16:43.343 [SPEAKER_00]: I am he that berries his friends alive and drowns them and draws them alive again from the water. 16:43.904 --> 16:47.272 [SPEAKER_00]: I came from the end of a bag, but no bag went over me. 16:48.251 --> 16:55.295 [SPEAKER_00]: And I probably don't need to lay out all the different things that he said in the references, because we've read through the story, you know, a reference to Bagend. 16:55.555 --> 17:01.819 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a reference to the way they escaped in the, those big barrels through the water from the elves. 17:02.180 --> 17:06.102 [SPEAKER_00]: Each one of these things, the cluefinder, the web cutter, the stinging fly. 17:06.542 --> 17:10.645 [SPEAKER_00]: All of these are references to the things that Bilba has done on this journey. 17:10.945 --> 17:13.607 [SPEAKER_00]: How he's traveled, the adventures that he's come across. 17:14.495 --> 17:16.077 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, they are riddles. 17:16.397 --> 17:24.127 [SPEAKER_00]: They are giving Smauge an answer about who he is and what he is capable of, but they're done in a way that is indirect. 17:25.208 --> 17:28.132 [SPEAKER_00]: These don't sound so credible, scuffed Smauge. 17:28.532 --> 17:32.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, now you're making stuff up because some of the sounds ridiculous. 17:33.278 --> 17:36.500 [SPEAKER_00]: I am the friend of bears and the guest of Eagles. 17:36.900 --> 17:39.122 [SPEAKER_00]: I am ring winner and luck wearer. 17:39.502 --> 17:44.685 [SPEAKER_00]: And I am barrel rider when on Bilbo beginning to be pleased with his riddle. 17:44.725 --> 17:49.028 [SPEAKER_00]: Now notice here, he's starting to feel maybe overly sure of himself. 17:49.469 --> 17:55.933 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pointed out that he's beginning to feel pleased with his riddling, but the very last thing he says is barrel rider. 17:56.853 --> 18:00.514 [SPEAKER_00]: Barrel writer, that would be something of all of these things. 18:00.974 --> 18:04.474 [SPEAKER_00]: That's smug, might actually understand. 18:05.235 --> 18:08.915 [SPEAKER_00]: That's better, that's smug, but don't let your imagination run away with you. 18:09.976 --> 18:14.936 [SPEAKER_00]: The narrator in the very next paragraph confirms that this is actually the way to talk to dragons. 18:15.517 --> 18:22.878 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to reveal your proper name, which is wise, and you don't want to infuriate them with a flat refusal, which is also wise. 18:24.135 --> 18:29.554 [SPEAKER_00]: It also goes on and explains how they're actually fascinated by talking riddles, much like Gollum was. 18:30.533 --> 18:33.714 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Smau reveals that he understands the barrel thing. 18:33.954 --> 18:41.695 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, I thought so last night, he smiled to himself, Lakeman, some nasty scheme of those miserable, tub trading Lakeman, or I'm a lizard. 18:41.715 --> 18:47.517 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't been down that way for an age and an age, but I will soon alter that. 18:48.237 --> 18:54.258 [SPEAKER_00]: This might be the moment where Smau decides that he's going to take action directly against Laketown. 18:55.258 --> 19:01.103 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, he talks about the barrel rider thing and says, well, maybe that was your pony's name, but maybe not. 19:01.123 --> 19:03.065 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it kind of taunts him a little bit. 19:03.085 --> 19:05.728 [SPEAKER_00]: It was fat enough and talks about eating the ponies. 19:06.408 --> 19:09.071 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's trying to push Bill Bow's buttons here. 19:09.131 --> 19:09.611 [SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to 19:10.732 --> 19:22.000 [SPEAKER_00]: get an emotional reaction, which is common in these kinds of situations, not just with a dragon, but with a terrible individual who seems to think highly of themselves and wants to manipulate other people. 19:22.220 --> 19:23.061 [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go. 19:23.341 --> 19:29.365 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he pulls out a piece of information that kind of puts Bilbo on his back foot, so to speak. 19:29.666 --> 19:34.129 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, don't have more to do with dwarves than you can help in a Bilbo response surprise. 19:34.509 --> 19:38.452 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he explains, who responds, don't talk to me, meaning like, don't play. 19:40.293 --> 19:55.251 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it dwarves teeth like and smell like, I know I can smell them on the ponies, I can taste them on the ponies, and basically push his back on Bilbo, and tries to convince him that Bilbo might have the bad side of the bargain. 19:56.323 --> 20:00.888 [SPEAKER_00]: He puts the pieces together and he's like, okay, so you've come here to steal the treasure. 20:01.028 --> 20:02.009 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that point. 20:02.269 --> 20:07.035 [SPEAKER_00]: You have some sort of connection with the lakemen and there are dwarves involved. 20:07.355 --> 20:08.756 [SPEAKER_00]: Dwarves like treasure. 20:08.997 --> 20:10.078 [SPEAKER_00]: I took the dwarves treasure. 20:10.138 --> 20:11.619 [SPEAKER_00]: You're trying to get the treasure back. 20:12.000 --> 20:12.781 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems clear. 20:13.221 --> 20:15.183 [SPEAKER_00]: So what kind of deal did they make you? 20:15.984 --> 20:17.885 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he starts making him second guess it. 20:17.905 --> 20:19.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how would you get that much treasure home? 20:20.566 --> 20:21.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would they even make that deal? 20:22.647 --> 20:31.571 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to short you or you're going to end up in a situation where you can't actually collect on the thing that they would have given you anyway. 20:31.871 --> 20:34.314 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where he really starts the manipulation. 20:34.614 --> 20:36.737 [SPEAKER_00]: And Bilbo has an interesting response to this. 20:37.258 --> 20:42.764 [SPEAKER_00]: This desire ceases him to rush out and reveal himself and tell Smauke the truth. 20:42.804 --> 20:44.206 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, like, no, no, no. 20:44.266 --> 20:45.307 [SPEAKER_00]: He wants to defend himself. 20:45.367 --> 20:46.609 [SPEAKER_00]: No, this is what's actually going on. 20:47.330 --> 20:47.810 [SPEAKER_00]: But he doesn't. 20:48.631 --> 20:51.894 [SPEAKER_00]: He plugs up the courage, the use of the word courage there, again, and he speaks. 20:52.514 --> 20:55.817 [SPEAKER_00]: And he decides that that would be a bad thing to do. 20:56.117 --> 21:00.441 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's also a note here that he might be in danger of coming under the dragon spell. 21:00.481 --> 21:01.902 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how this spell's work. 21:01.942 --> 21:02.903 [SPEAKER_00]: It's through words. 21:03.464 --> 21:06.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Sao Ruman is very similar to Samoud in this way. 21:07.727 --> 21:17.851 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilba says, you don't know everything, oh, smell the mighty, so compliments him here, not gold alone, brought us either, which still reveals more and smell gloves. 21:17.971 --> 21:21.072 [SPEAKER_00]: He got Bilba to admit there's more than just him. 21:21.950 --> 21:27.932 [SPEAKER_00]: And he laughs at him and says, why not say us, fourteen and be done with it, Mr. Lucky number. 21:28.012 --> 21:30.233 [SPEAKER_00]: So he puts two more pieces of the puzzle together. 21:30.673 --> 21:33.814 [SPEAKER_00]: He's starting to understand the riddles. 21:34.314 --> 21:34.934 [SPEAKER_00]: He's clever. 21:35.354 --> 21:35.914 [SPEAKER_00]: He's smart. 21:36.474 --> 21:37.855 [SPEAKER_00]: He's been around a long time. 21:39.095 --> 21:46.778 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it has occurred to you that even if you could steal the gold bit by bit, a matter of a hundred years or so, you could not get it very far. 21:47.519 --> 21:53.441 [SPEAKER_00]: He decides to keep taunting him about not being able to even get the gold back to wherever he came from. 21:53.821 --> 21:55.162 [SPEAKER_00]: He would need armed guards. 21:55.202 --> 21:57.203 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you can do to haul all that treasure? 21:57.643 --> 21:59.284 [SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to deflate Bilbo here. 21:59.304 --> 22:07.107 [SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to convince him that even if he thinks he's doing something for the right reasons or for his own benefits, it's all for not. 22:07.647 --> 22:09.247 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no way he's going to get what he wants. 22:10.168 --> 22:15.989 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're also told here by the narrator that he had a wicked and wily heart and he knew his guesses were not far out. 22:16.489 --> 22:23.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Though he suspected that the lakemen were at the back of the plants, he can't get the idea of the lakemen out of his mind. 22:23.871 --> 22:27.831 [SPEAKER_00]: So for as clever as he is, he's still making that connection. 22:27.871 --> 22:30.332 [SPEAKER_00]: The lakemen, at this point, aren't behind any of it. 22:30.852 --> 22:34.753 [SPEAKER_00]: All they did was house the dwarves as guests and help supply them. 22:35.353 --> 22:36.914 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't come up with the plan. 22:37.414 --> 22:45.118 [SPEAKER_00]: They were just there along the path and were just polite and helpful with hopes of getting something out of it for themselves. 22:45.499 --> 22:51.062 [SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately it wasn't the Lakemen who decided that this would be what would happen. 22:51.262 --> 22:53.303 [SPEAKER_00]: They just continued to allow it to occur. 22:53.843 --> 23:02.470 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is one of those moments where we get a glimpse of how vindictive and emotional smile is beyond simply being clever and intelligent. 23:03.090 --> 23:06.433 [SPEAKER_00]: He's holding it against the lakeman because he already doesn't like them. 23:07.134 --> 23:11.397 [SPEAKER_00]: He thought it would be a good time anyway to just get rid of them so they don't have to be a problem anymore. 23:12.234 --> 23:18.338 [SPEAKER_00]: And Smauge's taunts, and his questions about how you're going to get the treasure back, really start to take hold in Bilbo's mind. 23:18.698 --> 23:25.562 [SPEAKER_00]: Had the dwarves forgotten this important point too about getting the treasure back, or were they laughing in their sleeves at him all the time? 23:25.622 --> 23:30.245 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice the turn in his perception about them being sinister in their own way. 23:30.946 --> 23:33.487 [SPEAKER_00]: And Bilbo seems to begin losing control here. 23:33.587 --> 23:36.589 [SPEAKER_00]: He leans into another narrative. 23:36.649 --> 23:37.630 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, I tell you, 23:38.450 --> 23:46.894 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is justified as an effort to mean loyal to his friends, but he's now drawn fully into the conversation and is starting to reveal more than he intended. 23:47.574 --> 23:49.615 [SPEAKER_00]: That gold was only an afterthought with us. 23:49.935 --> 23:54.137 [SPEAKER_00]: We came over Hill and under Hill by wave and wind for revenge. 23:54.757 --> 24:02.961 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a very different turn at tone from early on, but then he kind of backs up a little bit and he says, surely, oh, smug the unassessibly wealthy. 24:03.361 --> 24:06.283 [SPEAKER_00]: You must realize that your success has made you some bitter enemies. 24:06.963 --> 24:10.364 [SPEAKER_00]: And at that, we get this kind of opening up of Smauge as well. 24:10.404 --> 24:12.405 [SPEAKER_00]: He laughs, and it's, of course, terrifying. 24:12.685 --> 24:14.286 [SPEAKER_00]: He snorts revenge. 24:14.506 --> 24:17.547 [SPEAKER_00]: And his eyes are described like scarlet lightning. 24:17.628 --> 24:19.008 [SPEAKER_00]: He is terrifying here. 24:19.348 --> 24:22.650 [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, revenge, the king under the mountain is dead. 24:22.950 --> 24:25.451 [SPEAKER_00]: And where are his kin that dare seek revenge? 24:25.831 --> 24:27.372 [SPEAKER_00]: Gary and Lord of Dale is dead. 24:27.612 --> 24:30.093 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have eaten his people like a wolf among sheep. 24:30.773 --> 24:33.414 [SPEAKER_00]: and where are his son's sons that dare approach me? 24:33.895 --> 24:40.298 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he feels the need to be boastful and to defend himself and to explain exactly how powerful he is. 24:40.998 --> 24:53.364 [SPEAKER_00]: My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail, a thunderbolt, my wings, a hurricane, and my breath, death. 24:54.084 --> 25:03.845 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, like in the last episode, we get these connections to natural powerful forces and the most powerful and unavoidable of all. 25:04.527 --> 25:04.808 [SPEAKER_00]: Death. 25:06.235 --> 25:09.018 [SPEAKER_00]: I have always understood, said Bilbo, in a frightened squeak. 25:09.118 --> 25:12.782 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo's very terrified at this point, but he's still continuing on with the conversation. 25:13.302 --> 25:17.546 [SPEAKER_00]: The dragons were softer underneath, especially in the region of the Earth, chest. 25:18.147 --> 25:20.890 [SPEAKER_00]: But doubtless one so fortified has thought of that. 25:21.430 --> 25:26.675 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo, in the midst of the most terrifying point in the conversation, pivots. 25:28.357 --> 25:39.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, appeals to the things that he's saying, this pride, and that is Smauge's real weakness here is pride of how unassailable he is, how powerful. 25:39.641 --> 25:50.865 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's at this moment that Bilbo, I guess composes himself in order to get exactly the response he needed, because Smauge reveals his underbelly. 25:51.626 --> 25:52.446 [SPEAKER_00]: And clear enough, 25:54.171 --> 25:57.213 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo can see that there's a piece missing. 25:57.693 --> 26:01.655 [SPEAKER_00]: His scales are described as multiple shields or diamonds. 26:01.675 --> 26:08.779 [SPEAKER_00]: He even has gems kind of encrusted in there amidst the scales as extra armor in sort of a way. 26:09.902 --> 26:19.689 [SPEAKER_00]: And Bilbo responds dazzling, marvelous, perfect, flawless, staggering, still playing to Smaukes Pride, because he knows that it worked. 26:20.190 --> 26:23.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo won the conversation. 26:24.253 --> 26:26.755 [SPEAKER_00]: He lost some of the steps along the way. 26:27.055 --> 26:36.362 [SPEAKER_00]: He revealed things he did not intend to reveal, and Smaukes pushed him to the very edge of his ability to maintain his composure and insanity. 26:37.250 --> 26:38.030 [SPEAKER_00]: But Bilba won. 26:38.951 --> 26:42.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Smaller revealed something and didn't even know that he did it. 26:42.874 --> 26:51.699 [SPEAKER_00]: He thinks to himself, old fool, why there is a large patch in the hollow of his left breast as bare as a snail out of its shell. 26:52.620 --> 26:54.601 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a weak spot. 26:55.061 --> 27:00.405 [SPEAKER_00]: And Bilba knows that this is the only thing that he's going to get out of the conversation at this point. 27:00.505 --> 27:04.868 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the only chink in the armor almost literally here. 27:05.879 --> 27:08.440 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he decides, okay, it's time to get out of here. 27:08.901 --> 27:13.343 [SPEAKER_00]: And instead of just being quiet and leaving, he announces his leave. 27:13.383 --> 27:20.887 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, well, I really must not detain your magnificence any longer still playing to the pride, or keep you from much needed rest. 27:21.187 --> 27:23.528 [SPEAKER_00]: Pony's take some catching, I believe, after a long start. 27:23.808 --> 27:24.589 [SPEAKER_00]: And so to burglars. 27:24.989 --> 27:25.929 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was pointed. 27:25.969 --> 27:29.791 [SPEAKER_00]: It says here that that was a parting shot as he darted back and fled up the tunnel. 27:30.111 --> 27:34.354 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't need to say anything, but he just wanted to get that little poke in. 27:35.194 --> 27:40.738 [SPEAKER_00]: that he was a burglar, he was hard to catch, and this time he didn't steal gold. 27:41.379 --> 27:43.300 [SPEAKER_00]: He stole information. 27:44.021 --> 27:47.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Smauke responds quickly and understands that he must have come through a little hole. 27:47.564 --> 27:54.730 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember he can kind of smell him, and he goes to stick his head in, but his face gets stuck because it doesn't fit in the doorway, and the section ends with this. 27:55.450 --> 28:08.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, the whole head and jaws could not squeeze in, but the nostrils sent forth fire and vapor to pursue him, and he was nearly overcome and stumbled blindly on in great pain and fear. 28:09.518 --> 28:18.263 [SPEAKER_00]: He had been feeling rather pleased with the cleverness of his conversation with Smellog, but his mistake at the end shook him into better sense. 28:19.304 --> 28:21.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo, you fool. 28:22.206 --> 28:27.489 [SPEAKER_00]: He said to himself, and it became a favorite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb. 28:28.049 --> 28:31.071 [SPEAKER_00]: You aren't nearly through with this adventure yet, he added. 28:31.091 --> 28:33.352 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was pretty true as well. 28:48.337 --> 28:49.758 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love this part of the story. 28:49.798 --> 28:50.458 [SPEAKER_00]: It is so good. 28:50.478 --> 28:53.760 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get even deeper into the details in the bonus episode. 28:53.780 --> 28:57.181 [SPEAKER_00]: So come join us on the patreon patreon.com slash LOTR Lorcas. 28:57.522 --> 29:07.006 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to our newest patrons Kay Mickey B Tony B and we named the dog in B. That's a wonderful Indiana Jones in the last Crusade reference. 29:07.066 --> 29:07.727 [SPEAKER_00]: Very, very cool. 29:08.367 --> 29:10.289 [SPEAKER_00]: So glad to have all of you joining me. 29:10.369 --> 29:14.652 [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you're enjoying the bonus episodes, the ad free episodes, all the different stuff you can get on Patreon. 29:14.993 --> 29:17.515 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I have to shout out all of our VIP patrons. 29:17.555 --> 29:20.457 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get through the list and see if I can't not mess it up. 29:20.577 --> 29:21.498 [SPEAKER_00]: Can't not mess it up. 29:21.518 --> 29:23.520 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, double negative. 29:24.020 --> 29:24.781 [SPEAKER_00]: It came as a cover. 29:24.861 --> 29:29.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Eldarion was right, Apollo, Avarial, Asyl Razzle, Barney D, Brandy D. 29:29.765 --> 29:46.129 [SPEAKER_00]: Captain LegaLoss Turner, Daniel Knight, Weaver, David S. Divine Madman, Folkram, Gimliabrake, Ginger Fury, who is my hero, Jezor, Kepenna, O-O-Nine, Lori B. Mason, Weathertop, Matt, Party Snacks, Philip M. Richard J. Rosy-Rose, single-ent looking for end-wives, the best-to-spot NTJT. 29:46.169 --> 29:48.050 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for your continued support. 29:48.230 --> 29:49.752 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll wrap this up really quick. 29:49.792 --> 29:55.938 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have any new reviews or at least new, yeah, five star reviews on Apple in the US. 29:56.098 --> 29:59.001 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you decide to leave one, I'll read it out on the next episode. 29:59.101 --> 30:00.242 [SPEAKER_00]: And thank you to all of you. 30:00.622 --> 30:02.744 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for sharing the show with your friends and all that stuff, too. 30:02.784 --> 30:06.628 [SPEAKER_00]: There's all sorts of wonderful ways you can help me out more than just the Patreon. 30:06.888 --> 30:07.569 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for doing that. 30:07.889 --> 30:08.470 [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you. 30:08.850 --> 30:10.571 [SPEAKER_00]: Until next time, have a wonderful week. 30:10.791 --> 30:18.974 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you do get in a kind of a verbal debate with the dragon and you win, then don't press your luck at the end and make fun of them and run away. 30:19.554 --> 30:20.194 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just leave. 30:20.214 --> 30:21.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, I'll see you next time. 30:23.688 --> 30:25.769 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 30:26.409 --> 30:29.971 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts. 30:30.431 --> 30:34.773 [SPEAKER_00]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, The Witcher lorecast, and more, have robotsradio.net. 30:35.233 --> 30:37.074 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you. 30:37.594 --> 30:44.237 [SPEAKER_00]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord. 30:44.657 --> 30:50.399 [SPEAKER_00]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net. 30:50.660 --> 30:51.360 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time.