[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Table Talk, a show where I chat with other creators in the TTRBG space about how they run their tables.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Danger Dancers, the GM and host of D&D Arc, and joining us at the table today is the GM of the Monster of the Week podcast, The Thorne Files, Danny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to kick us off and get started, can you tell us a little bit about your history and the TTRPG community and about your show, the Thorne Files?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always loved storytelling.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's something which I have done since I was as young as my memory stretches back to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to build Warhammer when I was very young and I used to sort of play with toy nights and monsters and dragons and all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking back at it now and hindsight, I definitely remember I would make up stories for all these characters and they'd be very in depth, story lines, I'd have factions and all this sort of interworking character connections going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what I was doing when I was very very young was essentially playing TTRPG light.
[SPEAKER_01]: without any real rules, essentially just playing on my own.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was already going towards that, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I got older, I love board games, that's sort of an inclusion of rules, and I saw the fan myself making story lines and I was in my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I think I got into TTRPGs in the same way that a lot of other people do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not breaking them all, and I say that I got into it probably through listening to podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I initially heard of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: through things like critical role.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are very much the way I think a lot of people got into D&D from when I first listened to them that was a bit overwhelming to be honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what the game works but I came back to the later and I definitely got more into it and
[SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, my big sister had told me to go and listen to the adventures on as well, because they had just started up their first campaign, the Barnes campaign.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think from there, I just started finding myself falling into a hole of listening to lots of different TTRV shooting podcasts and just loving everything about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: around that sort of time, like I started playing D&D properly myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really threw myself into doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I helped start up a D&D group in the town which I worked in because there just was a real dirt of D&D groups in that area and so I go there after work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I play for a few hours with people and then I would
[SPEAKER_01]: I would go home and I was one of two GMs in that group because no one else wanted to.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is my first step into D&D was where they grew up with about six or seven people as the GM.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was definitely a baptism by fire of getting into this and lost a stuff I would in way too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big group.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bloody group.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, for my first kind of actually
[SPEAKER_01]: only literally finished that campaign in the last couple of months that went on for about five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably more than that, because it was a few years before COVID and then it extended through a COVID or a good long while.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great, but it was definitely mad doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And while I was enjoying doing that, I also found myself, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what a lot of GMs do with specials on that D&D that is very adaptable is tweaking things and making your own little mechanics and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love continuing to tell in stories and doing a lot of collaborative storytelling with my players.
[SPEAKER_01]: then I just got this sort of idea of doing a podcast and I was just like a nigglin little thought start off with of like I could maybe do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like quite like audio editing and I quite like playing TTRPGs and maybe I could I could give this a go and I think once I had that thought I had to give it a go as one of those things that I could not do it at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, I got into it and a lot of the people who I played with in my home game became people in the podcast and people where I played with outside of that home game, also became both the podcasts as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I haven't looked back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the people that I've gotten to touch with and gotten to know through the TTRPG space.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been mad, it's been bonkers, but yeah, it's been great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I knew that the song for ourselves comes from, I think it was less than to the event just on season of Monster of the Week.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I loved it as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it started to make me really think about different
[SPEAKER_01]: games I could play as well, I really, really thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, the more I read about it, it's the first GT RPG outside of D&D that when I read it, I was like, I love just reading this book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love reading the rules of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is so fun and it really lent into that story telling as a game rather than like the crunchy numbers, which I really do love as well, but D&D, I love about Bob Cove, Kathilu, and all the other sort of crunchy number games.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you love full crunchy number, GT RPG like,
[SPEAKER_01]: all the power to love your best life.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think more so we really landed like, you know, that story telling which I did from when I was tiny.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and then it was it was just sort of from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything just took off.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love most of the week and
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the only one I could really think of if it came to doing the podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just loved it so much and wanted to do a story with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also one of the things where I just wanted to play it as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So saying, oh no, it's actually a project.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a creative project me doing that meant that I could play more games, which I think was a sneaky way of getting to play more TDRVGs.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is something to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: For Deandark, for example, making it into a podcast, put a pressure on us to meet regularly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is a big part of what carried us through completing our campaign.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not completely agree with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I think it's been the most, the most regular game that I've played.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that has, you know, regular players have come.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we've only had a few episodes here, and though people haven't been able to make it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's only for like really extreme things.
[SPEAKER_01]: The team has been great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll make sure we can work the things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's been it's been fact and then there's obviously there's more that we talk about in terms of the phone files itself choosing to do an historical setting or something I wanted to do because I thought I'd done modern day that would be interesting but I wanted to lean into more of like historical settings for these other things because you can lean on to social issues as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's important to if you have the opportunity to tell these sorts of stories you should and yeah, so that's well, okay from and you know also just a love of horror and love of spookiness and mysteries and
[SPEAKER_01]: Creeping my players out every single chance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every mystery I've tried to do at least once.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is incredibly satisfying.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot that I want to unpack about all of that, but I do want to commend you for really diving into the deep end when you were first starting, jumping in with a really big group coming in as the GM to help establish a regular playing group.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is no small feat.
[SPEAKER_00]: definitely want to commend you for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And from the interviews that I've done and from a lot of people that I've talked to, critical role, specifically adventures on the balance campaign are the two biggest starting points for most new actual play shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I got in from the Dungeons and Daddies podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another really fantastic podcast as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they Anthony Birch has been very vocal about how adventure zone balance was his biggest inspiration point and the thing that he was primarily pulling from.
[SPEAKER_00]: in putting that campaign together, but absolutely those actual play podcasts were a huge inflection point for people coming into the hobby and entering in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I sympathize entirely with having difficulty getting engaged with critical role.
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of impenetrable just the sheer amount of content that they have.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so hard to know where to start and where to jump in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have admittedly really struggled and not really been able to follow a lot of their stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been able to pick out like an episode here or there to kind of study and jump off of, but a lot of the stuff that they've inspired, like it's impossible to overstate their influence over the hobby and
[SPEAKER_00]: over this space, they were such a big magnetic draw to pull people into the community.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, to further unpack, and I really want to dive more into your show, but her anyone who is unfamiliar with the monster of the weak system, can you explain and lay down a basic groundwork for what are the general basic rules of it and how does the system work?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, I'll try to break it down as succinctly as I can.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of the week, it's the game based around the powered by the apocalypse system, it's designed to emulate a sort of episodic monster hunting like TV shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you think it like boffy of the vampires that are supernatural, there's a few other ones that will expile us.
[SPEAKER_01]: The more you think about them, the more that father interpret.
[SPEAKER_01]: Each player and the game takes on a sort of hunter role.
[SPEAKER_01]: So archetypal characters will find in these sorts of stories about the cold archetypes and playbooks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have things like a chosen, so you think I'd buff you the vampire, slayers, the chosen one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, so like a spooky who are like particularly scary characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: The archetypal characters, and together, you investigate and confront that supernatural threat.
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe aliens, different dimensional monsters, or in Thorne France case, like sort of faithful can think some folklore.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not very rules like narrative forward game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what's I really love about the game is degrees of success in failure, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you roll above ten, that's like a full success.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you get whatever you want, and also the, uh, the keeper, the person's running the game, well, give maybe give you something like an extra as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then between seven and nine, it's got a mix success.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'll get potentially what you want, but you won't get everything you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: And things might go maybe a little bit wrong as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And anything below a seven is a failure, but instead of what you're doing just completely like stopping and halting, the keeper has to use it as a sort of means to push the story forward, but in a way that is chaotic in some way that things go badly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it can't just be, oh well, you're trying to break into a door and the lock pick you using breaks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be now something really bad happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to do this and now maybe you've alerted everybody nearby and what you've said a lot more and something bigger is going to go on now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it encourages the GM to include these extra bits and it's great because it just allows us to have collaborative storytelling throughout.
[SPEAKER_01]: So character, allows us for improvisation that have really encouraged us improvisation as well and what's really fab about it as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever you feel a role, that's how you gain experience in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not based on successes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You do get some from successes based on a few finished and mystery, or you save people during a drill like an episode during a session, you might get some more experience, but not really that much.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what you do get loads of experience from is from those failures.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you never feel like
[SPEAKER_01]: You feeling rolled has ruined your game because your character will get better and be less likely to fail later.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it really, really works and it's just a deeply, deeply fun game to play.
[SPEAKER_01]: And very chaotic effort if you have the right group which I definitely do for four and five.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the philosophy behind having no failure ever be wasted.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tying experience points two failed roles is a really clever way to incentivize riskier gameplay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is also, you know, narratively it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you roll shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get beaten up this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But next time, because you failed that time, you can't have some experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: So potentially, you might not fail next time because you've learned from that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like learning from mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how life works.
[SPEAKER_00]: You tend to learn a lot more from failure than you do from success.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really cool that that's mechanically represented within the game itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to unpack and tie this a bit more into the form files, so using the master of the weak system and taking it into a historical setting, it's definitely something that I'm really interested in as I'm gearing up for our second season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our first season was, even though it was technically set in a fictionalized version of the real world, much more whimsical and fantastical, I'm going for slightly more of a historical route for our second season.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I definitely want to pick your brain about what all was going through your mind in the setup.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think most of the week really works because it's a system which is based on a style of TV show that has had lots of different TV shows based on different settings, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's lots of them are very much real work based with the fantastical elements.
[SPEAKER_01]: but that others which aren't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you could argue some of that doctor who's a monster the week TV show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, absolutely absolutely absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the more you think about like, oh, yeah, followers exactly the same structure as all of those other ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think something at most of the week, which, like I said, is very sort of rules light in the sense that it allows you to very much adapt things very easily.
[SPEAKER_01]: It works to put it into different times on as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like really, really works because it's all rules light.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't feel like you're tied to any specific setting with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: When it came to like coming up with the setting and thinking about the setting, I knew I was going to do historical because I think it's important to do historical settings.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they can be very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the lens into and allows for a lot of emotional storytelling and character driven plots based around things which are things in the past, what things are very much relatable today.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have players, we have plots and characters that are very much of a centre around lots of different things that are very much relevant to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's interesting to be in the historical settings.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it allows people to look at them as an outside and within sort of thing that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Being able to have this wonderfully flexible system meant that I could plunge myself into a historical setting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think I'd get caught out on things too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sorry, I've lost my train of thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something.
[SPEAKER_00]: No worries.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of an abstract question and train of thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it might be helpful to go into more specifics of the specific time era that you are set in and what kinds of social things you're pulling from.
[SPEAKER_00]: So your first season is set.
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct me if I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's set in the nineteen fifties.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, nineteen fifties for season one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Coming out of World War II in the postwar era, I'm sure that that really heavily influenced a lot of what the changing social dynamics were and gave you a lot to really pull from.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the juggling act of balancing the fantastical elements of the master of the weak system and doing a more horror centric story with a historical setting, what kinds of considerations did you make in trying to kind of thread the needle in approaching both of those aspects?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's important that we did try to connect things in a certain way and have to run themes throughout.
[SPEAKER_01]: So at that time, there was so much of displacement of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just in terms of like physically, like people's homeless were destroyed, people's whole lives were destroyed, people had forced to go from the whole other countries, they were moved to other places in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: that theme of the displacement and feeling lost and alone while being surrounded by people was something that we definitely wanted to use and then you know we have Michaela's character in the first season Peter who's a gay character.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had talks about it, we talked about the fact we wanted to have social issues be a play a part in our game and talk about them a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was important for us that we had a character from the LGBTQ plus community in the story because it was, you know, it continues to be, but it was especially then like a really, really horrible time to be part of that community.
[SPEAKER_01]: like you've just gone out in World War II and obviously the atrocities that happened countless people.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was this strange world where, you know, I'm looking back in the history of it now, it just baffles me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we beat the bad guys, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where the bad guys in World War II.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you were the bad guys now, mindset because of all the horrible things that they did to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all the minorities that were destroyed and
[SPEAKER_01]: targeted by them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, these people from these communities have just gone through their absolute worst things that could possibly go through, end up in place like the UK.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's still shit for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not like the UK was a super inclusive everyone's here into massive community sort of world.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was also massively secular.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was massively segregated still.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people still hid a lot about themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though they're supposed to be the good guys, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: These would be the friendly place.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's that looking at it and realizing that just because people aren't necessarily obviously monsters doesn't mean that they aren't.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting theme to play it with.
[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely influenced a lot of the things that we did in the first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have lots of characters who are displaced characters who come from communities that were either hiding part in themselves or literally are being persecuted in the series.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in some way, we have a lot of the themes in terms of the monsters as well, this idea of monsters hiding this idea of a lot of the monsters in the first season, especially even the main antagonists of the first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: monsters that have been forced out of where they came from and are sort of stuck in our world and have had this one glimpse of potential hope and they've come to this world looking for something better things go badly for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also had this thing which made it our sort of a rule for our worlds going into it that magic is done best in our world when it's done by humans.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have monsters doing, you'll have creatures coming to the world and before magic, but the worst things can happen in the world due to magic, I don't because humans do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: and because humans are greedy, because humans are flawed, and even the best people can do evil things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a time of huge amount of doubt, a huge amount of fear, and it just plays into the idea of horror perfectly, because everything's terrifying, people are terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the monsters that we can have in that season are definitely played into the sort of things you would see, agreed and anger,
[SPEAKER_01]: the warmth from revenge and all these things would boil up in people constantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a really good way of tying together the things that this genre of entertainment does really well, like the era of secrecy and the huge emphasis on identity and kind of the split between public and private life is such a huge focal point with all the TV shows that this
[SPEAKER_00]: TTRPG is kind of built on the backs of.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the diaspora aspect of it of the monsters being displaced, especially in such a turbulent time and the amount of unsteadiness that just kind of existed in the world and the wake of such an enormous cataclysm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's a really fascinating way to approach this system.
[SPEAKER_00]: pulling off of those identity aspects of the shows that go into this, are there any particular touch points that you were looking at when building that story, whether it was from any of those TV shows, whether it was from jumping into the history books, like what were your particular inspirations for building this story in this setting, and what did you look to when making the Thorntheiles?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there are a few things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, there's the most three TV shows we've previously talked about, definitely had a play on what we've looked at, but also, there's a TV show in the UK that I don't know how popular, but I'm actually really popular, it's going to be a good TV show called Life on Mars.
[SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't watch it and think, I, yes, so I'm finally watching this, but I definitely took inspiration from it, because it is a essentially how it works is a police officer from Monday as in a, it's an accident, and then he wakes up, but it says, the late teens, seventies, I believe, and he's sort of stuck in this world, which he doesn't understand, and it becomes more and more clearly he's like in a coma, and it's all possible, like his mind just trying to deal with the trauma of it, and how that plays into it is like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Occasionally in this very much a surrealist police procedural because they're all historical cases that he's aware of happened that he sort of gets involved with themselves the cases because he knows about history of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are elements that aren't truly terrifying, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I really, really suddenly scary moments and really weird visuals and things happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: The story line takes a very strange twists and turns.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I definitely would say that's something which I take an inspiration from to the style of it and the ability to to tell these
[SPEAKER_01]: interesting storylines about people and identity, especially, I mean, it's the main character police officer, it's all set within the police at a time when there was a hot police won't crave the police are good now necessarily, but
[SPEAKER_01]: That period of history is very, very dodgy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of dodgy stuff going on, especially if you're a minority or a woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very, very hard to be in the place at that time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it really needs into that to learn those sorts of stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then also, you know, having the space to do something scary as well, like suddenly, some of the scary happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, also, I want to say, I take inspiration from things like bin-like mass as well, which is like a sort of small town horror story when I was, I know that's how modern-saxing budgets are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely the vibe I take from, you know, there's a monster, obviously, the monster's doing monster does, and it's very much a bit instinct, and it's all built around that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the monster can only really do what it does, because the humans allow it to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's made worse by the humans, I don't know, but I'd there make it worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd also say something like the witch, the witch, is another sort of familiar sort of horror film set in the family setting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love doing that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love watching that and that definitely give me inspiration as well for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really any horror set in the historical setting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as well, with a bit of a sort of strangeness to it, I like a strange horror film, not necessarily love a jump scare, sort of movie, but I love a strange one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think those really lean to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would also say, I mean, another thing I definitely touched on, in terms of the style and where to initial inspiration from was another podcast, a show called The Magness Archives.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: In hindsight, I calling the podcast of door files is so much closer to the clip so I actually intended it to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really didn't mean it to be that close, but I committed to it and the actors like, ah, that, that, that, that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love my top guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's such fantastic storytelling, the sort of audio means as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I definitely think inspiration from that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually my sister as well got me into listen to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do have a story where I had initially listened to it and loved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just don't have to like around a map so because I'm chaotic.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was so many, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just around one, one that sounds fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did listen to Round One and then my sister said that I was mad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I should go back to listen to the first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by this point, I was already planning the throwing files.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I was planning it, I had initially thought, OK, I'm going to do like an anglerfish monster.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, like, well, the first, so I've got to be honest, there was a lot such as very, very much inspired by anglerfish.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's called the FSA's called anglerfish.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a great podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great inspiration for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: You never know where inspiration will strike and will come from.
[SPEAKER_00]: The stuff that I pull from from my show is all over the place, which granted we are more comedic and we're kind of intentionally anachronistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And since we've got a heavier focus on the show being more of a comedy, we play a little faster and looser with the genre conventions of what we're going for.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of where horror is derived from,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many interesting things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I find that the more that you can dodge expectations, the more effective something can be, I didn't expect at all how horrific I could make frogs going into our show.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as the show goes on, I lean more and more into the horror aspect of our comedy horror podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting what you can get from melding together, different sources.
[SPEAKER_00]: similar to you with Magnus Archives, the Welcome to Night Vale podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And enormous inspiration point for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's much more indirect with D&D arc, but a lot of my earlier projects before doing this podcast were very night Vale inspired.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that kind of sense of humor between Welcome to Night Vale and the Terry Pratchett Discworld books.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a few novels as well I haven't actually mentioned that I think I should mention as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: the disc wall books have absolutely been a huge inspiration for me, not just in terms of film vows, but any TTRPG I played has been influenced by the disc wall books.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I initially started the game myself talking about early Ron, I had just come off the back of reading all of the Witcher books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Essentially, I can't remember whether they'd all been out by that point, but like a lot of the Witcher books.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was into political stuff and kingdoms and it's all like,
[SPEAKER_01]: gritty realism magic and really grim dialogue sort of world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I re-read all the discord books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a campaign and became very whimsical.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sidiness eventually towards the end of the campaign.
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just
[SPEAKER_01]: Terry Bradford's fantastic, and so, absolutely leaning, leaning towards that in terms of inspiration.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd also say there's a great book called Jonathan Strange and Mr. Morrow by Susanna Clark.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a sort of nineteenth century.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't written in the nineteenth century, but it's written in that style.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're like the period piece of books is very much written in that style, so it's really enjoyable to read.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're like sense accessibility, if you're like prayed and prayed, it's just you're enjoying reading it for the style of it, but it's also, it's such a great, better story to them because it's based on like, in century, Britain, if magic was a thing that just does its commonplace, like, gentlemen don't do magic, but it's magic, you're used to do magic.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a golden age of magic while I go, but it's passed and build on your magic anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just such a rich bit of storytelling and the world is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: during Thornfiles, I just read that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the main cruxures of Orvisus a book is sort of like Faithbook and so creepy magic of the Fae and it's of otherworldly people that are source of human but not quite human.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't really have the sense of empathy because they don't really live much longer or that lives just different in that sort of way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just love that sort of creepiness.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, that's definitely coming into this season, the second season Thornfiles way more.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a, yeah, Terry Pratchett just on a clock.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't read it, definitely go read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I forgot the books.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I will absolutely add that to my list.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams were incredibly instrumental in my sense of humor.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of their sensibilities work their way into our show.
[SPEAKER_00]: but jumping into more of the horror aspect of things, I'm just curious if you're anything like me, where after you've started doing your show, like for me, I did some deep dives before doing the show, but as the show was going on, I was basically doing my homework so to speak, of going through all of the horror grates, especially because when I was younger, I was very
[SPEAKER_00]: not necessarily squeamish, but I was much more horror averse when I was younger and the turning point for me was kind of hitting high school and in like my late teens early twenties was when I kind of started to really get into an embrace horror.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of work that I had to do retroactively to go back and rewatch and experience all of the things that I had been avoiding.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you have any sort of similar experience after you've done the show of like, okay, I need to start really deep diving into all of this other horror media to see what I can pull to accentuate the show and to like really amplify the horror that we're going for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I was very similar to you in the sense that I can't remember hate like really disliking horror when I was growing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked it, but I would never choose to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I had a very vivid imagination.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there were definitely things which then stuck in my head for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say they traumatize me, they definitely traumatize me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the things that they want always from horror films, the things that scared me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember being scared quite a lot by films.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think in that sense, I didn't necessarily watch lots of horror films.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also, you know, had friends, my family, there were lots of brothers in this family, and lots of them are much older than me, and also my big sister as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they would just absolutely love putting on opposite terrifying films and watching them with all the young kids and just terrifying us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, we watch things like the ring and things like, which in retrospect, maybe not the scariest role in the world, the ring.
[SPEAKER_01]: but as a young child, it was absolutely terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And things like the haunting, it was another one which, looking back and then, if I was watching now, I wouldn't find it scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think, because I've watched so many other things now, so definitely find way more terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the time, death and this get me traumatized me.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I've definitely gone back to rewatched all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also been, didn't touch knows younger.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I've got back into, and yeah, horror is a great genre.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely had a lot of holes, so I've definitely been years where it's not being brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're going through a bit of a peak at the moment with all the great horror films that are coming out in the last few years.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also a huge amount like really great up horror short films as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: The shutter is a great place to find horror films.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also actually got into it as well by going through, you know, since I don't watch the dead meat, which is a podcast, but also YouTube channel that go deep dives into horror films and so go to the how they work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they did like kill counts for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do like these are like the behind the scenes stuff as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I find that fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just a great way to really look at horror in a more sort of rounded way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think doing that has meant that I'd sell so much more conflict going back and watching more and just really enjoying horror films.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I love the alien films being sent out of a fantastic films.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, some of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are tips of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then things like, I remember growing up, not knowing what the film was, but being terrified by visuals.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just had stuck in my head for like walking in one day in my cousins watching a film when I think they were watching a horror film.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had these horrible visuals in my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's stuck in for ages.
[SPEAKER_01]: And only in the last few years, realized that what I remember watching was the thing, ah.
[SPEAKER_01]: and going back and watching is just thinking, this is a bloody great movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd appreciate it still pretty scary and the practical effect and everything that's fantastic, but it is such a good film.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I really appreciate it, or I think it's just, it's just going up and up as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, things like sinners.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm an amazing horror film and just like a good,
[SPEAKER_01]: a hundred percent good movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's taking huge steps forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's such a relief that horror is doing well because it's such a good genre.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think, you know, you can't not things like get out was I think got so many people in the past few years and then us as well as another
[SPEAKER_01]: a great one there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have the resurgence of things like the Twilight Zone, you had what's his name, the guy who directed Pan's Library.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guillermo del Toro.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does his, like, a series of short films on Netflix.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he has, like, a cabinet of curiosities as well as coal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's just like pop short horror films.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have things like love death and robots, which can lead into horror as well, that are fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those short films in that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think
[SPEAKER_01]: horrors taken off and I think it's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are so many good examples of it coming out the last few years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with horror being just kind of in its nature a subversive genre, it really lends itself well to social commentary and to dissecting larger societal issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's such a versatile genre and there's so much that you can do with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's always it's great to see it thrive.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a similar experience to me with what you brought up with the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember not all that long ago was when I was going back and doing my horror homework.
[SPEAKER_00]: I watched Hellraiser for the first time and I remember distinctly feeling when I was watching it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, this movie is exactly the movie that ten year old me thought all horror movies were.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think that's an accurate position of it as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, uh, call, how race is a great film.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a thing that I've started to kind of piece together, what was a big entry point for me was, um, from the nightville network, a podcast that I loved to recommend to people that they've done as a spin-off is random number generator, horror podcast number nine, where, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Cecil from Night Vale and Jeffrey Cranner, who's one of the main writers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jeffrey knew absolutely nothing about horror and Cecil was a major horror buff, and so the two of them decided to do a podcast where Cecil would take Jeffrey through the genre of horror and introduce him at random one movie at a time.
[SPEAKER_00]: every episode they roll a pair of dice and they'll usually have like a style dice and a scare dice so it'll be a thing of like okay if we roll a one this will be a movie from the nineteen forties if we roll a two this will be a splatter film if we roll a three this will be a film that's in the top fifteen percent tile on review aggregators
[SPEAKER_00]: is if we roll a four, this will be us so bad, it's good movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: We roll the other dice and it's a vampire movie, we roll a one, it's a witch movie, we roll a two, it's a ghost movie, we roll a three, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've covered a wide range of the classics and really obscure ones that I never would have known otherwise.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they basically do a brief summary of the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: They give a list of warnings for if you are squeamish.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are the things to look out for.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're curious about horror, but like one of approach at Arms length, we'll give you just a summary of everything that happens in it and kind of discuss some of the behind the scenes and the merits of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then roll the dice again to see what movie we are randomly doing next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great way to explore the horror genre from the outset.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've been going for a couple years now so they've got a really big backlog of episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a really good resource and it's been a fun way to kind of discover more niche.
[SPEAKER_00]: horror movies and also like two kind of vicariously with them and through their discussions revisit and get a feel for what is my personal taste in horror.
[SPEAKER_00]: So absolutely one that I recommend it's usually abbreviated to random horror nine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will definitely check out the ones that you brought you said dead meat.
[SPEAKER_01]: dead meat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they did start off with like just like they did that kill count where they would break down the kills NFL that they'd go through them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would mark down like the best one, the worst one in the movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then as the shows got on progress, they had become so much more.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd go into like the technicalities with all of some of these kills happen in the films.
[SPEAKER_01]: They go through this of social issues in the films mentioned that they go through
[SPEAKER_01]: huge amount of back story stuff and behind the scenes stuff and they do interviews, they do like dead meat horror woods and they all have like horror legends coming to present awards on it and it's just they're doing so much stuff and if you're interested in getting a de horror without necessarily diving straight into watching some of the films that they've covered I think it's a good way of doing it because they obviously definitely recommend like go watch the film for yourself so you can experience it first
[SPEAKER_01]: but it's actually really made so many horror films so much more like a comfortable watch for me because I'm a bit like I know how this has happened I know how this is what I know this is a great film to work on then one had loads of fun and I know how these scenes were filmed and what's about to happen so I wouldn't necessarily be shocked and scared I could just like appreciate the horror and I appreciate how the films been made so I guess it's handy for that
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say I did for every single film, I think it's definitely a few years they've covered, which I haven't listened to the stuff before if watched the movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: So things like sinners, they did a podcast on sinners, and these would broke that all down, but I watched it before.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to experience it first, and I think that they do the men you, they do the men you want, and I want to watch the men you first, so I definitely recommend getting involved with them, they're great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I will absolutely check them out.
[SPEAKER_00]: They sound like a fantastic resource.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we get too far off track, I do want to circle back around to Thorne Files, so for anyone wanting to check out your show who is coming in for the first time brand new, what do you consider to be the best?
[SPEAKER_00]: on ramp for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a couple of seasons and I think you've got some interstitial content that is separate from your main story.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you consider the best starting point for new listeners?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the best overall representation of your show?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they're different, then please feel free to go into what makes each kind of standout point unique.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I want to say if you're going to voice up listen to our podcast please listen to the first episode of the first season obviously I want that to be the case but I can respect the fact that we were starting out then and we were figuring things out how the game worked we were playing together and we're having fun with it I can also appreciate the quality of the audio is like we were recording through a potato
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the first few episodes because I know how much effort we put into making them work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also know the quality of the audio card sometimes be a bit great for people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a good place to start.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the first season is a really good season, especially towards the end, really pick things up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Each mystery, I think they got better and better as the season went on and the players got really into it as the season went on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you are a brand new listener and you are interested in getting to listen to us, I would recommend listening to the first episode of our second season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we do have things across all of my first season, obviously we have characters and plot points and things that are important from the first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when they come up, I have explained them, I made a point of making sure that if they anything comes up.
[SPEAKER_01]: important that I explain what those things are.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also the players know to explain things as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there have been great times where the characters in the second season have talked about things happening in the first season or characters from the first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a good place to start is the first episode of the second season because also the audio cost is better and it's a good place to pick up from.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you wanted to listen to the first season, I think there are a few good ones of China, like good, I just really nailed it in terms of the way we were telling the stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have one of our last mysteries in the first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Episode thirty eight is called Everbright and it's the jumping off point for our final mystery of the first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just great in terms of the drama and everything that the stakes are really, really high.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really fun mystery to get into.
[SPEAKER_01]: But apart from that, first episode of the second season would be great, first episode of the last mystery of the first season would be great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would also say, episode twenty four, death of a dentist is one of my favorite mysteries we did.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a faithful, we had a headless horseman and it's really, really had like a cult of witches and things and that's in that mystery.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that as a storytelling point and the players really got into that one as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, death of a dentist is a great episode because it ensures the great mystery, ever bright as a great episode because it is high stakes, finalist through the first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you are a new start, and you don't want to touch the first season straight away, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to the episode one of season two, which is called,
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for laying all that down.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're coming up to the end of our time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to make sure before we end, we've kind of covered a pretty wide range of topics.
[SPEAKER_00]: But are there any other miscellaneous things that you want to make sure that we touch on before we wrap up?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, we have loads of, like you said, episodes and specials that go on, which I have nothing to do with the props storyline.
[SPEAKER_01]: We love testing out new TTRPG systems.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had today Christmas special of first year based on the ten candles TTRPG, which is very leak end of our whole game.
[SPEAKER_01]: We called it ten Christmas candles and it was still bleak in the end of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we did the Alien RPG, which I wrote a mystery into the Alien RPG for a special for us, which I personally think was really great as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, really worked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kelly, who is part of the podcast, ran a call of Kathuna game, which is set in the world of the podcast, which is set in the nineteen twenty sort of big step back.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to have a little bit more of a taste to fool more and things, it does have things from the fire history of the podcast as well, which should be fun to get into.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Kelly's a fantastic storyteller as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just such a great player.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also did a two-part series called Dead on Arrival, which is based on a one-page TTRPG that I myself wrote, which is inspired by, you know, suicide squad, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: seeless supervillains getting like a chance to redeem themselves before getting like butchered during a dangerous missions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was really lucky because I got the chance to play that with people from five gyms in the trench coats.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had Kim and Tamlin from five gyms.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we also had Julianne and Kevin from the wing women podcast, which is outstanding actually play podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I had these fantastic players come and play this just bonkers chaotic supervillain.
[SPEAKER_01]: game.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have all these ones that already out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have a bunch which will be coming out in the next few months, probably.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've actually had to take a break from recording because I had babies.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to take a little bit of a break just to give my family time with me before I come back and do recording stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: understandably so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's wonderful.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my players have taken that time to record the wrong game.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have one run by Tom, which is going to be a vason game, which is such a great game as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't played vason, it's a cool, like, a slandic folklore horror game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we have Jay and other playing the game is running a necronautalus game, which I have no idea what this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he seemed very enthusiastic about it, so I'm sure it would be brilliant to answer here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Load and extra stuff going on that we put together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And lots of stuff I'm sure will come up in the future where we've been talking to a lot of people to set things up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, lots of exciting stuff to go on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, fantastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: As we're wrapping up, I do want to thank you one more time for coming on and chatting with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been an awesome conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's been great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for having me on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been so great being talked to somebody about teach RPGs and just horror and yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody who is listening to the Thorn Files.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I always make sure I thank everybody in our ad Reeves thoughts, but I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll read our list of podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if anyone, you know, hears me here and doesn't think, well, he doesn't sound like a quick practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe listen to it as his actual play.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you as well to those people.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, thank you so much for having me on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as we send you off, can you remind us one more time where we can find your show?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the Thorn Files podcast is on whatever podcasting app you listen to.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are on Spotify Apple podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, you want listen to podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can find us on Instagram as well where we do a lot of the announcing of episodes and any specials that we do at the Thorn Files on the Scott podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have on the loads of our character art, gets done.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have character art for all of our characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done by at Dogle Gills, Fay, his unbelievable character artist, and they have done guest stunning work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to come to our Instagram with bunch of fun stuff on there, and yeah, we are on whatever podcasting and actually listen to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome, all of those links will be in the description, so thank you again for chatting with me, thank you all of you for listening, and one more time I'm Danger Danger's, the host and GM of Dien Dark, I've been speaking with Danny, the host and GM of the Thorn Files, and this has been Table Talk, and I hope you enjoyed what we brought to the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Table Talk, created hosted and edited by myself, Danger Dan Jürs, with artwork by Jordan Nelson.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our guest this episode was Danny from the Thorne Files podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Links to his works can be found in the episode description.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're interested in being a guest on this show, reach out to us at dndarkpodcast at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our theme song in Outro was created by Jeremy Volucci.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out more of his works on Instagram at Jeremy Volucci under score, Rec of Time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time we have a guest take a seat at the table.