[SPEAKER_01]: That's the way I see a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: Conservatives like to, you know, per the definition of be conservative and preserve what we've built or as progressive, just constantly want to destroy it or, you know, put it to the test and see what they can screw up about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I noticed that you said,
[SPEAKER_00]: Progressive and not liberal, which is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means you're probably not a smooth, brain-dullard because liberal in the classical sense means somebody that respects individual liberty essentially, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, certainly we've butt fucked that word all the hell in back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go!
[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm going to say is that we got a special guest today, Adam.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, leave us from Arcos.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got all that right this time because this is take two.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get into a bunch of stuff today, hunting among them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably talk some military stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But before we get into all that, let's talk about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did you grow up?
[SPEAKER_01]: Burrist in Southern California, a little town called Temple City, close to Pasadena.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got out of there as fast as I could.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a childhood there and then, uh, fifteen years in Virginia Beach, uh, now I live in Idaho.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, why Idaho?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I've been everywhere and there's no place like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Simple answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All fifty states, uh, at least a couple times a piece, uh, and over seventy countries.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's just, you know, the place that I'd rather live than right where I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: Eagle Idaho, can't be.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's, uh, what's unique about it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people actually hold the door open for a woman walking into a store.
[SPEAKER_01]: They see somebody struggling with some full stop and help them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You notice one of your neighbors having trouble with something that you already walk over and you offer to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just standard stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't walk by trash in their own neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just general human decency that seems to be scarce, just better rural.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think it's scarce everywhere else?
[SPEAKER_01]: you're going to have to give a different reason for a different geography.
[SPEAKER_01]: I travel a lot, obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, just in general, I just think that people care less now than they used to, especially about their community at large.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, search pretty far and wide to find people that
[SPEAKER_01]: that care like Idahoans do about what they've got.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of getting some of the political thing, you know, you compare conservatives versus progressives, you know, the Democrat Republican kind of balance there or the difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: The way I look at it is like progressive Democrats, they always want to advance advance advance and get to the next thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how do we become more
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever our extremity is today, how do we get more of that?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we, you know, press the envelope a little bit further?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas conservatives look out and say, hey, well, we've got here's pretty damn good.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were hard to get to where we are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's try and keep this the way it is for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the way I see a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: Conservatives like to, you know, for the definition of be conservative and preserve what we've built, whereas progressive is just constantly one-up.
[SPEAKER_01]: destroy it or put it to the test and see what they can screw up about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I noticed that you said
[SPEAKER_00]: Progressive and not liberal, which is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means you're probably not a smooth, brain-dullard because liberal in the classical sense means somebody that respects individual liberty essentially, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, certainly we've but fucked that word all to Helen back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's
[SPEAKER_00]: Conservative versus liberals is probably one of the more meaningless debates going on right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the two hot button words that people use.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't actually mean anything anymore because I wonder from since we brought it up from your perspective, you're an Idaho right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a
[SPEAKER_00]: There seems to be very little functional difference between the people who call themselves conservatives and D.C.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the people who call themselves liberals and D.C.
[SPEAKER_00]: or progressors or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly they differ on some of the finer points, but when it comes to stealing your money, they're both on the same side, when it comes to sending that money to foreign countries, typically both on the same side, when it comes to giving that money to lazy people, they're pretty much on the same side, and nobody has any kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: will or even intent to stop any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw we've seen it this year with the all three chambers, or I'm sorry, all three elements of the government belonged to Republicans and they still can't cut spending for some reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, you know, I wonder from your perspective, you're on a plate, you're in Idaho, which is pretty solid red.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it the same there, or people actually taking the shit seriously?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'd say if the most part people take it pretty seriously, and I'll admit, you know, even with the influx of mainly Californians and refugees from other more destructive self-destructive states, Colorado especially,
[SPEAKER_01]: The ones that are coming to Idaho for the most part are the good ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we do have melting pot going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: You do see some extremities, but now for the most part, the ones that are coming here are the good ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: I try not to get wrapped up in the big picture politics.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no desire to ever take on a career politics.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just try and keep it at my local community level as far as my interaction with
[SPEAKER_01]: other people, my neighbors, that's the extent of my political exposure, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, are you familiar with what's going on in Boisey right now?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's I think it was
[SPEAKER_00]: this weekend there was a march by a bunch of Muslim people in Ann Morrison Park for it was like a pro Sharia law march which is kind of a, certainly Boise is going to be somewhat blue and I don't mean the turf on the field obviously the people because it's a larger setting a lot of people from outside the state have been moving there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this seems like a weird place for something like that to be happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did see something pop up on my speed, pretty disappointing and to be quite frank of, you know, in previous years before we had the mayor that we have now, that would not have lasted for more than a couple of seconds before I was completely broken up and those people were all off.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, all for free speech get it, but there is a difference between that and
[SPEAKER_01]: civil structure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a lot of it just seems like at this point a coordinated distraction.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't know that it's very hard to believe that any of this shit is really organic anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think your position of just mind in your fucking business and hanging out near your own house is probably
[SPEAKER_01]: a good idea just taking care of what's local you know I mean there's there's apparently there's a finer line than what we what we would normally anticipate between expressing your opinion voicing your your thoughts or inciting a riot there's a pretty big difference but that line just continues to get blurred yeah well the good news is
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think as susceptible as Americans can be at a stupid bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do tend to wake up from time to time realize that what's going on around them is goofy and they kind of like I can't believe we allow that to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully we're going to get back to something a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know a little closer to the early
[SPEAKER_00]: early nineties I think that's sometime between like ninety three and ninety nine is where American civilization peaked I think right we weren't like that there was some measure of respect for everybody that was going on and you know a lot of the old uh... i guess
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of the old hate had been forgotten like the number one movie of ninety five was bad boys two black cops one of whom is dating white girl you know what I mean and everybody fucking loved it and it wasn't nobody even brought it up at the time wasn't even an issue we were kind of inching our way towards post-racial society and then of course somebody had to bring it back up because got for bed we get along but yeah i think i think we're getting like there's a lot of
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of people talking shit right now, but none of it feels real to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It all feels like it's manufactured.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not like it was back in the day where people were, you know, doing real stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now half of these motherfuckers that are out protesting or getting paid by this organization or another, this scene is very inorganic to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've noticed any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you say you keep it pretty local, but I've definitely noticed that in my own self.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we don't see nearly as much of it here, but I don't know, the Sharia law administration in him, where some park is a serious outlier, kind of instances that occurs right before we get on this podcast, but we don't typically see activity like that here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our former governor, but y'all are used to say it very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Idaho is still governed by its cowboy culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd say for the most part, especially in comparison to other states, that's more or less still true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cowboy culture is still pretty deep in the roots here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can explain cowboy culture, what do you mean by that?
[SPEAKER_00]: What did he mean, do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: You get a phone call during the morning because your name reads, help when you get your ass out of bed and you go help.
[SPEAKER_01]: You open the door for a lady.
[SPEAKER_01]: You hold a door open for anybody who's maybe walking in the same building as you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Common courtesy is like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not pushing each other out of the way just to get to the same place at the same time, whether it's, you know, boring and playing with the airport or what we call the Idaho for a way stop, which everybody kind of knows what that looks like.
[SPEAKER_01]: for people all approaching the intersection same time they just go like this way each other on yeah yeah it can cause a bit of a problem because everybody's a little bit too polite yeah yeah that's yeah it's a it's a it's a a sign of you know well rooted people and folks raised well
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think, you can discuss all day why it is like that, but I think there's more utility and trying to figure out why it works so well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for me, the reason I think this stuff works so well is because
[SPEAKER_00]: the way there's a number of ways in which we as a society can allow whatever whatever other group the aristocracy I call it but whatever the group is to rule over us instead of serving us which is what we were designed as an America.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of them is to forego your responsibilities and it's kind of the the impetus for this show is you can betch and moan about your rights and wait around for somebody to secure them for you and you'll be a subject under the rule you can secure the rights yourself by performing the responsibilities required of a citizen and that's what confers upon you set up the the the moniker citizen it's a literal definition of it actually and the other one is
[SPEAKER_00]: allowing the state to solve problems that you should have solved yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tell people this a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the government shows up somewhere and nobody has their hand out, they don't have any power there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're actually concerned, if you're actually a liberty-minded person, then you will be very intentional about solving the problems closest to you as you say your neighbors or whoever it happens to be, start with your family, obviously, and work your way out into the community from there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the real insulation from government interference.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's solving problems before those assholes show up.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it has the added benefit of lessening the distance between you and your neighbor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you maybe your neighbor has completely different political views or economic views than you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you let CNN or Fox News tell you what that person believes, instead of just going to ask them and talk to them and try to find some common ground on it, then one, you're a fucking asshole.
[SPEAKER_00]: And two, you're going to get an extremely distorted version of what that person actually believes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now someone has divided you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's only one reason to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're intent on dividing somebody, it's because you're trying to conquer, then that's where the phrase comes from.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in a place like Idaho or anywhere, really, that respects that old school culture where I am, it's not that I, my brother's keeper, it's that I'm responsible for everybody around me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my job, especially the man that's your job, is to make sure that everybody around you's taking care of, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I have critical mass of men do that, society tends to do pretty well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would agree for a minute that I thought I was talking to Adam Olred here saying, I'm sure he'd probably know them.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a good buddy, I'm great dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he had a lot of the same thoughts opinions in the way that he verbalized it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I agree that one of the big problems that I've noticed and again, not to get too political about the whole discussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: The polarization that we've experienced with access to information, technology, social media, and then of course, you know, news outlets needing to generate revenue with clickbait and sensationalism of true events is
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just driven us apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll far further to our extremes than what we used to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: The example that I use is the abortion example, you know, call it sliding scale, one to one.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got a fundamentalist hardcore, we'll call it.
[SPEAKER_01]: just using a religion Catholic who believes that the intent for sexual intercourse is simply for breeding and that is the the entire purpose of attraction between a male and female and life you know begins of course at conception and that life's precious and there's nothing that should be done to disturb it just let runs course okay great that's obviously very anti-abortion and then the other side you have the
[SPEAKER_01]: later abortion doctors are pulling out of the feet, both arms shoulders, most of head, leaving tip the cranium ends, sniffing the spinal column and calling it later abortion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Back in the nineties to your point, you know, mid- nineties, there was somebody who was at a
[SPEAKER_01]: forty that could have a civilized conversation even shared dinner table and have a pleasant evening with somebody who's at a sixty or even a seventy on the scale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nowadays somebody who's at a fifty three looks somebody who's a fifty four and says you're a fucking monster.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you know, that even though our views might be closer to each other on the grand scale things, we've just become so polarized and intolerant in each other largely, I think, because of, again, access to information, the misperception that we're informed and then, of course, developing stronger opinions and less tolerance because we are bombarded with that information and the,
[SPEAKER_01]: ideas of others that become the ideology that owns us instead of developing it on our own.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one thing about the old days you want to call it that.
[SPEAKER_01]: with less access to technology information and news feeds, is you had to develop your own opinions and your own thoughts based on your own interactions and your interactions with other people, you know, and watching them interact with other people, as opposed to interacting with a screen or, you know, phone getting your news feed that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, getting it in its form for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good observation about
[SPEAKER_00]: the connection between individuals.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an old, there's a phrase that I've heard many times before that I really enjoy and it goes something like it's hard to hate up close.
[SPEAKER_00]: You ought to be in.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason is because it's uncomfortable, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we are social creatures and we want, I wouldn't say we want each other's acceptance so much but we do create each other's presence to some degree and having some kind of awkward buffer between us is intrinsically uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we go out of our way to try to find resolution for that usually, most people are more or less agreeable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one example I've been talking about a lot lately, and it's another, the two hottest political issues over the last forty years, one divorce, and you talked about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other one is healthcare, my opinion, right, this idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you'll talk to a,
[SPEAKER_00]: you'll talk to let's say somebody that calls themselves progressive and they'll say something to the effect of I think we should have free healthcare and your brain starts to cannibalize itself because that's a ridiculous statement right it's like we need free the focus what's free are we enslaving doctors like what what's because you know the general premises
[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me that nothing that requires the label our labor excuse me of another person is a human right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not how fucking rights work you can't demand something of some of the else however To your point from before this is
[SPEAKER_00]: You've turned what is probably an issue that most people agree on in principle into a divisive issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to wonder why people do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's how it's something that most people agree on.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you take that person to their best possible meaning, what they're saying is that in the richest country in the history of the world,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably unethical to tell somebody that they can be as healthy as they can afford to be, especially when the government is stealing forty percent of their fucking money, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, that's something that I think a lot of people can agree with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you move the propaganda piece out of the way, when you move the distortion of the underlying first Prince of the Way, it seems like a concept that a lot of people are going to agree on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to ask yourself, why did
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did these two individual groups on opposite sides drag that issue so far part that it seems like two separate things when really you're trying to come to the same conclusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, maybe it's just that the American public or the public in general respond well to divisiveness.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people watch people will fucking slow down to see a car crash, so maybe that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe it's that you're being propagandized every single day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's that.
[SPEAKER_00]: that thing where if we're able to solve this issue, we don't need this guy anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why the fuck are we giving him our money or our time or our attention?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's something that people should kind of look into.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's, it's, frankly, excuse me, frankly, that's not a political issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just an issue of evaluating whether somebody's full of shit or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, there's so many different variables that go into that equation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And whether you're a politician or not, I feel like when you reach the point of thinking that your idea is right and your stance is the one that is correct and you have a hard time understanding why others don't see it the way that you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're further away from progress than you've ever been.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're the furthest away that you'll ever likely be from being a responsible, a responsible, you know, public servant if you are an elected official.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you can understand why people don't see your point of view and it's frustrating you to the point where you are staying up at night and, you know, thinking like, why doesn't everybody just get it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it still obvious to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: you are further from the representation of your constituents than you ever will or should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, I mean, choose your term, narcissism, neptism, what are you like?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I, again, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: People with more endurance for that part of life are better suited than me to take on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is exhausting to be honest, but you know
[SPEAKER_00]: of those of us who have uh... i guess worked for government and you did for a while uh... not sure it is uh... you were in uh... you were a navy seal for a while good while uh... spent some time in bob beach working for the man as they say i mean it's better than being in the traditional navy or or the big army or anything like that but still comes with you know i think for a lot of people
[SPEAKER_00]: The military is your first, like, especially since most people go in pretty young.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your first experience with government authority in any real way unless you got into trouble when you were younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you see a lot of, you see the full gamut.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think military folks understand more than most people.
[SPEAKER_00]: that these people that are in charge if you want to call it that are just human beings and they're fucked up or flawed and one way or another just like we all are because we've all had good and bad leaders and we've all seen the in and I guess in the military especially for gun fighters such yourself and I was in the eighty second in the industry like you can see the immediate consequence of bad leadership right so I think you tend to prioritize
[SPEAKER_00]: certain traits and a leader that other people might not recognize.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you see bad leadership on display, it's like, I think it hits a little bit harder for a lot of folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that your time and the Navy informed this desire of yours just to go back to a local area and take care of that instead of dealing with all this big government nonsense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Very, very possible it did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: We crave things that we get a taste for in July and their short lived.
[SPEAKER_01]: We always want to go back to those things, whether it's a past-time like sports, hunting, timely family, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a good experience with something and then
[SPEAKER_01]: you are in a position where you're getting less of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to want that thing more and more.
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, I mean, being in the military for sixteen years, I got a lot of exposure to a lot of different parts of the world, obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: Government exposure, how big government works within the military anyway, a lot of exposure to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Travel the world, which I still like to do, but I just
[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to get away from the institutional side of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no desire to ever hold a public office.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no desire to be in the military ever again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no desire to be a contractor working with the military or the Department of Defense ever again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Had enough of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the previous life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice checking the box and glad to come from that background.
[SPEAKER_01]: Had a blast with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't treat it for anything, but I definitely don't want to go back to it either.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just time to move on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you moved on to Arcos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now tell me about that because we have a mutual friend Baker.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just got back from Africa actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a pretty good market for overseas hunting trips and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of my buddies do it at least once a year, but mostly to places like Africa, not necessarily to where you are, or where you go, or where you take people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So tell me about why you started the business and what you guys do exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, believe the place is that people hunt the international hunting market as far as hunters that are traveling outside of their home country.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say it's something like ninety-five percent is Americans.
[SPEAKER_01]: SCI has these statistics, Sparkle International.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's where it came out was ninety-five percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, lucky for us, we've got the richest client base here in the U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: But today, where Arkham started was really just
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have anything else going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got out of the military in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was just kind of floating around for about a year or so.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I went on my first international hunting trip in Mexico with the handful of buddies.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just went down to a ton of milder.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a half dozen of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember we could have one morning everybody else was still asleep and just kind of walked out on the lawn at the Athani lodge.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, St.
[SPEAKER_01]: Augustine grass, in between Metos, kind of, the wet, uh, do-ease and orange desert smelling in the air.
[SPEAKER_01]: I picked up my phone and I called my boss that was, um, he was the CEO of the Italian company that I was working for at the time, um, building materials deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I called him and said, hey, do you know, yeah, I quit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we talked for another minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just said, yeah, I'm done.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a contracting kick that I had with that company.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just called it there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just kind of told myself, well, I'm going to go ahead and make a business out of this international hunting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't hunt a ton when I was a kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: My dad and I went a handful of times and I went with some friends a few times with their fathers, but it wasn't a huge part of my childhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in the military, I got some work exposure to it, just as I was traveling throughout the States.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when I got out, it just hit big.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thoroughly enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, I told myself, all right,
[SPEAKER_01]: For a while now, I've tried the whole transition from military directly into called corporate America, or a completely unrelated career.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just got bored out of my mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to go get an adult, J.O.B.
[SPEAKER_01]: or start a career that could take me throughout the rest of my adult life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just got bored out of my skull.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where I started.
[SPEAKER_01]: started traveling the world for big game hunting, scouting places out, didn't know what I was going to make out of as far as the business out of it, but just kind of it started off with counter-pouching work in South Africa and as in Bobway, most people call it anti-pouching.
[SPEAKER_01]: just like anti-terrorism, anti-terrorism is, you know, TSA.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not counter-terrorism.
[SPEAKER_01]: Counter-terrorism is two on special operations forces and the like.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I was working on in a South Africa with Ivan Carter and a handful of their friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: And buddy, Mon, Jeff and I, we instructed the first and only advanced Ranger training course at the Southern African Wildlife College.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, bring in some of our tactical backgrounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was an SF guy in the army during the war as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But bring in some of those tactics to
[SPEAKER_01]: help park ranges in crude or national park to help them not only track, but also engage effectively, poachers mainly elephant run-up poachers in.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, spent a lot of time in Africa for a couple years, but it was all bouncing all over South America.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, Canada, all that quite a bit in Africa, Asia, and then when COVID hit,
[SPEAKER_01]: Prior to COVID was already kind of gravitating toward Asia, just because a big sheet can go to the world over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a real mountain hunting.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I do it when you're young.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can see.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can save Africa for when you're in your seventies.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the hunting style in Asia is certainly more of a young man's game and more my kind of adventure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when COVID took hold of the world, that was a bit of the catalyst where I'd already realized, you know, the most inefficient hunting market on the planet was certainly Asia.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a complete disaster.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, in an inefficient market, that's where the widest spreads are and the most appropriate for improvement.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's where I focused.
[SPEAKER_01]: And ever since COVID, we have been exclusively Asia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bring that to today.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're the only outfit or for Asia in the United States.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody else who would sell you a hunt in the US for an Asian hunt is a booking agent or a broker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Control their own areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have any
[SPEAKER_01]: In the equity, any real stake in the businesses overseas, and we do, or of, we operate in eight countries, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, to Jigstan, Pakistan, Uzbekstan, Mongolia, Turkey, and Russia.
[SPEAKER_01]: And every one of those outfitting is a little bit different, takes a bit of a different shape.
[SPEAKER_01]: The ones where we kind of have, let's say the most control, and it's more like the American North American hunting model would be to Jika stand and Kira stand mainly, and then
[SPEAKER_01]: that were reactive in Mongolia, Russia, and Pakistan as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But outfitting is a bit different in those places.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of community areas, especially in Pakistan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pakistan is a real big market for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do consider a whole lot of work there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a community area.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anybody can go hunt there and every tag is an auction tag.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it gets very competitive, but yeah, that's a bit of it in a nutshell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's I'm sure this varies by the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: You listen to a number of them, but what's the, what are the species that are hunting there mostly?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is there like, I mean, is it, certainly it's stuff that's not here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there's different types of room in it animal like there are anywhere that people like to hunt, but what's specifically over there hunting.
[SPEAKER_01]: The vast majority of what we hunt, like I said, sheep and goats, Ovis and Capra.
[SPEAKER_01]: The big animals that the Central Asia is known for, Marco Polo is one of the big one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Marco Polo are really definitely one of the bigger ones that most people are familiar with.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's in Kyrgyzstan and to Jigstan.
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, you know, highlights of it, it's the widest sheep in the world, especially the ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: You said widest, widest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it has the biggest shoulder, uh, whatever the fuck it's called.
[SPEAKER_00]: widest spread.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, widest spread.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, size difference, uh, in Kyrgyzstan, uh, S-C-I-N-G-O-C-O, classified as hemorgalli, though it's genetically identical, uh, O-S-A-M-O-N-Poli.
[SPEAKER_01]: the ones in Tajikistan are on average five to six inches longer single-horned length longer damn so yeah why is that is there is there some reason for that they don't get fucked with as much or was it no no just it's a geography habitat just the way that they've separated over the course time
[SPEAKER_01]: There are also hundreds of higher elevation, interjecting stand.
[SPEAKER_01]: For most hunters, their Markopolo hunt in Tajikistan is going to be their highest alt to hunt that they'll ever have in their last.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most or hundreds harvest their Markopolo between fifteen and sixteen thousand five hundred feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this, excuse me, is this more of a, like a trophy hunt kind of situation or is there a process for processing the meat and bringing it back?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, you can't bring any of the meat back.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only meat you can really bring back from hunting in your national is out of Canada.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't bring about forty pounds back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Should even Mexico right now is tough because the process cattle right now are shut down because of some bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's rough.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is primarily for trophy hunters and
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess maybe not even trophy hunters but experience hunters as well, you know, people that this want to go do something cool somewhere else.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the is there a process for bringing the the rackback or anything or or mountain that or anything?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so export import.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some species that are exportable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of the ones that we have on our exportable, and then you, of course, want to make sure that it's importable to the United States.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, all of our market poll out of Tajikistan and Karyistan, they're exportable, and they are importable to the United States.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty lengthy permit process that we've got to go through with you as such in wildlife.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we land trophies.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only trophies we have left from last season, we've got seven or eight more coming back from the Kyrgyzstan that are due to ship this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that'll be the clothes that are her season monster.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the season overlap with the US season or at all or how's that work?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's all Northern Hemisphere, so same hunting seasons as we have here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have hunters in the field right now in Russia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, one of our guys Scott, he's out of Elko, Nevada.
[SPEAKER_01]: Scott just took a stalker, stalker of a associate in Kamchatka.
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, I mean, you can see it on our website or a social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: The associate that I took last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The picture gets us a ton of attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: It dozens of hunters want to go on that area.
[SPEAKER_01]: They get a sheep just like the one that I took last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: That one scored one forty three.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a great ramp.
[SPEAKER_01]: Scott just took one.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're still in the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got this via sat phone call.
[SPEAKER_00]: one seventy four oh my god yes things a donkey i can't wait to see it uh... well-trived pictures here to wake herself when they come out of the field good lord i mean uh... a snowsheep does not look like a sheep that you've seen anywhere um... i mean it's it may as well have two pieces of fucking rebar curled up on its head these things are uh... it's a pretty impressive animal uh... dude so
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that process like from you you kill the animal goes to some processing factory I assume Baker was just in Africa they'll they'll hunt like Depending on which country you're in like if you're a Mozambique or some like that or What used to be road DJ there's a professional hunters there and they'll take you out typically
[SPEAKER_00]: People have this idea that things like hippos or elephants aren't hunted for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually the older males will get harvested from time to time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for there's a people probably yourself as well that are much smarter on this than I am, but for there's a specific reason for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But typically speaking,
[SPEAKER_00]: They will sell the hide at an auction afterwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are all things that are legal and normal.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a matter of fact, I've got a pair of flip-flops made out of black elephant that were harvested the money goes back into the community to help take care of the pH, to help take care of the wildlife there for, as you say, counter-poaching operations.
[SPEAKER_00]: The meat typically goes to the locals, though, is that how it works with your hunts?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we'll eat the meat from the harvest and while we're in Markopolo is outstanding.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're never had it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sensational, better than Dolce.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and then the Ibex, depending on what time of your kill it, and then of course, if it's quick kill versus, you know, if he's wounded and makes it offer a while, that's always going to take them each as like any other animal.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, Markopolo and Ibex can be really damn good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, Asian fair, we typically make soups.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, our chef and camp will make soup.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've done backstrap medallions for hunters and camp before.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to bring over my own spices, bring over some garlic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we've got salt pepper, but bring over some garlic, you know, some herbs, and just do backstrap medallions.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the rest of the meat are guides eat it and they bring it home to their families.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're not talking about an elephant where the whole community comes out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a good size markupolo, a big one to beat two, three, two, four down the hoof, usually between two and two, twenty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and he will like a hundred thirty pounds of meat off of that, maybe some like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, not even.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my kit, seventy or eighty pounds of meat off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, meats, meats phenomenal, um, done good at waste.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and then, you know, some of the other animals, there's, there's some animals.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to touch the meat.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just horrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's still a great case for hunting at the moment that you put value on the lives of those animals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, they're protected.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a lengthy conservation discussion that we don't need to get into on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, it's all the areas that we hunt.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a well-established conservation model that's in practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we work to supplement that with our own
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, our hunters and adding value that they bring when they come to hunt there, but also we have reintroduction projects that we implement in the different sessions that we hunt in.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's needed for if we can, you know, if the animal's just been hunted out over the course of decades or even centuries, there are some areas in Pakistan right now that
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some animals that are indigenous to those areas, but haven't been around for quite some time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll reintroduce them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's one of the things that gets overlooked about these hunts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to some degree, understandable, because there are plenty of assholes that are out there doing weird shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But hunters,
[SPEAKER_00]: that they go to these places, whether to Africa, Asia will often find animals that are snare to release them, they run off poachers, they reinvest capital into the community for these conservation projects, like you're talking about reintroducing species that have been run out for one reason or another.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a much more common thing than it is for some
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, some like slap-dick to go do some, uh, I guess unethical stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, people don't spend thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred thousand dollars to go on a hunt and go do dumb shit for the most part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually these are people that take it seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's part of the culture to make sure that the next generation that comes by is going to have the same opportunity that you did to enjoy this stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, and that's mainly the responsibility of the outfitters and the local community members that are going to be there far beyond this one guy coming to hunt one time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's our job to make sure that what we're doing is value add and not just depleting the resources as we operate there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you guys hunt, I'm curious about a lot of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there permits required for the individual who's coming over?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you guys have to be licensed in the same way that pH is in like those in bigger licensed?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or am sorry, and are you hunting with firearms or is it primarily like bows and shit like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Very little archery in Asia.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is not like, you know, sitting near in your deer stand.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they during the rut.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like that at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine how many were the bow and the mountains too much, especially that might be tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's rough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's real rough.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're not going to get the opportunities that you would in Africa or anywhere else.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's all different types of hunting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm personally, I'm also a right tool for the job kind of guy and a right method for the environment and the species kind of guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But me personally, I have no desire to sit in a blind or a waterfall and shoot animals that just walk in on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's something that
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a place for and I know there's some hunters that enjoy that because you see a lot of animals.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see a lot of walk in, you've got a pass on several of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have way too much ADD and I can't sit still like that in one place for that long unless I know that something is coming and I like to be on foot for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I guess the answer to your question there about tags is every country is a little bit different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and to Jake Stanley carries stand, we have our own concessions, and we get a certain number of tags for this concessions.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to hunt your books that hunt one, two, three years out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We hold those tags for that hunter, and then the tag goes into that hunter's name.
[SPEAKER_01]: That year, when they come hunt,
[SPEAKER_01]: In the case of Pakistan, Mongolia, Turkey, everything is a option.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we go to the auction, we try to get the tags, most of the time we get them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the tag gets put in the lunches name before they come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how much do you guys work with the State Department?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just to stay up to date on, I mean, is it just normal for a U.S.
[SPEAKER_00]: citizen to be traveled and out of Pakistan?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, given mine, there are places in Spain and France that are category three.
[SPEAKER_01]: For trial, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which means strongly reconstructed or your trial.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, category four, like Russia, they say, do not travel.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got guys in Russia right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Having a ball.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't, again, I cannot wait to see those trophies pictures.
[SPEAKER_01]: Russia's a big place.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not all for a small scale.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's huge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, not only that, but I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, the clickbait in our news, you know, we see in the news drones in Moscow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in everybody, thanks MQ-Nine Reaper with it doesn't hellfires.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The, you know, barely avoided thousands of civilian casualties.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's some kid with not even a DJI magnetic pro.
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, anytime there's that kind of drone flight around in airport, they have to shut down the airport.
[SPEAKER_01]: But our our news outlets here in the United States have to sensationalize it and we've been programmed to demonize Russia over the last several decades.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anything we hear, we just
[SPEAKER_01]: make it into the worst news possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great, you get some clicks and you major revenue for the day as you know, whatever you're, your, your news company is out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're doing your job.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're making revenue off of grab and eyeballs.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, as far as we're working with the State Department, no, we don't liaison the State Department at all, and they want absolutely nothing to do with keeping us more informed than what's on the website anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, you looked down at the Haleesco in Mexico, where Guadalajara, Tequila,
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a boat load of category three areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the entire area of helisco is, it's either category two or category three.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the state department's got to keep citizens at an broad scope informed.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, what I say to our hunters, there's not a single place that I will put you on a hunt.
[SPEAKER_01]: that is more dangerous than taking your wife to dinner and downtown Denver.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a shithole.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Denver is an absolute shithole.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty nice and like, twenty twelve.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's a complete shithole.
[SPEAKER_00]: So on that note, what's a
[SPEAKER_00]: What's a typical day look like on one of the hunts?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, early rise, I get, I'm sure it depends on what you're hunting and where, but, you know, what's a typical day in one of these places look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you, are you staying in a lodge somewhere and then hiking out for the day at a hunt and then coming back or are you out in the, out in the, the woods or the mountains for a couple of days?
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally dependent on hunt and the time of year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll use carry-to-stand as an example because carry-stand we, you know, it's just a good bit throughout the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our first market poll hundreds this year will go in late September and those guys are probably going to spike out for a few nights.
[SPEAKER_01]: The animals will be a bit further spread away from the lodge.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're, you know, everything's horseback and carry-to-stand horses do ninety-five percent of the work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you load up everything into your saddle panures and your backpack and load up for a nice long ride.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hop on the horses, go find some sheep, and then spike out in your body and probably make your attack in the morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Early season like September, I'd say a Markable Hunter, Markable when I've ex-combo.
[SPEAKER_01]: We plan for seven days hunting.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll probably spend
[SPEAKER_01]: three nights, spiked out three, maybe four, whereas you go later season and say some of our hunters that are going late November, they're not going to spike out.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll hunt from the lodge, probably almost certainly.
[SPEAKER_01]: The animals will be
[SPEAKER_01]: in more accessible areas, more than likely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And spike in now, it can get obviously more treacherous that time of year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, just it varies based on geography and dates.
[SPEAKER_00]: What about requirements for the hunters?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you choose
[SPEAKER_00]: just because somebody's got the money to afford something doesn't mean they have the right to be there so it's like what's that process like for selecting the hunters like for example I'm guessing you don't want some giant fat bastards not able to make the trip stay out for a couple days and then pack his way back obviously for his sake and for yours you know what I mean that's liability you're taking on I'm sure there's some process for this
[SPEAKER_01]: For us, there is not for every outfit or booking agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of guys will just take whatever hunters will come their way and are willing to pay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that you asked this question because this one is very important to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will fly out till Hunter and I will intentionally smoke him out on a first call to see if me speaking this way to the defense and I'll fly out to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no desire to take some old fat wealthy hunter with a big checkbook and wants just pay for a pile of horned to be laid at his feet and zero desire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our hunters, I want killers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want guys that are going to take responsibility for their hunt and they've got accountability on the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: they understand that it's on them to close.
[SPEAKER_01]: My guides, their job is to get punctured in the area, identify where good animals are, get trophies are, get the hunter close, but it's the hunter's job to close.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the Hunter's job to select exactly which animal he wants.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the porn profiles vary quite a bit, especially with which he and with I-BX as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some guys want one through the Y, some guys want one that dip through a little bit of the chin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other guys just want masks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another guy might just want total score, and some guys don't really care.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just want the interaction, and they want to fall in love with that animal before they pull the trigger.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I recommend to all our hunters.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to care what the tape says.
[SPEAKER_01]: First off, you're being in the lead to for the last couple of decades about what the trophic pictures you see online and on social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can get a lead to about what their measurements are.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've intimate knowledge of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't want to care what the tape says.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we all want to hunt large mature animals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, I'm no different.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want a hunter that's going to work hard for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: knows what he's doing on the mountain, he's there to enjoy himself, and his attitude, his mood, his mindset, is what's going to make the hunt.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to over-deliver.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just table stakes for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a phrase that we use within Arco's improvement as continuous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care if we have a banner year like we did last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean last year we didn't harvest a single market poll and carry a stand that was under fifty inches.
[SPEAKER_01]: No other out there can say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not it because our areas produce such a better trophy quality.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we do have very good areas for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's largely a testament to our guides and our hunters.
[SPEAKER_01]: First off, our guides get paid more than any other guides in the country by a long shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're highly incentivized to perform and be discerning when it comes to trophy selection.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, too, we don't get ship back hunters.
[SPEAKER_01]: the hunters that we attract, and this has been over the course of years, you know, the things that I just said to you, that has percolated throughout the hunting industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Hunter comes to us, he's usually already prepped.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard from some people, this is what it's like, Tom with Arcos, this is what they're looking for, this is how they treat you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he already more or less knows that he's a good fit for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually, if the guy's just a dickhead,
[SPEAKER_01]: a rich old dickhead.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to come find us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will refer them directly to a competitor if they call me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've done that several times.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we want, we want good dudes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we have quite a few female hunters that come with us, we've got a, this is a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a thirteen year old girl this year going to hunt Marco Polo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next year we have another thirteen year old girl.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she was eleven ten or eleven when her parents booked this thing then because you're a couple years out typically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty dope.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: On that line, what is so curious about this stuff?
[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of education is provided to the hunter?
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, for example, I'm sure the guides know and your staff as well, everybody involved knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: which animals are appropriate to take, you know, to preserve their herd, like animals at a certain age, or with nothing, I mean, some conventional wisdom is a certain inside spread first on like deer, for example, before you even think about harvesting that animal, but then you got to take into consideration.
[SPEAKER_00]: heard when the ruts are happening and then of course you know to manage the herd as well to take some that aren't bullying off people from from the from the rut or from are not people with other animals or bullying them off from the feed that's available in that area or whatever and then of course you got a bounce that with the trophy itself given the hunter a good experience in making sure
[SPEAKER_00]: that you know they're enjoying themselves because that's what it's really all about to it's like how much of that information gets disseminated down to the hunter you know what I mean because I think just from my perspective from the things that I've done
[SPEAKER_00]: giving, given those like that institutional knowledge to this dude, it finds its way into the community now and people know not to do stupid shit or they get a greater respect for what's happening out there and it's not just about having a head on my wall to be like, hey I went over there and I had a great time but I also contributed to the future and some, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we make a point to educate our hunters significantly before they go over, we over communicate quite a bit, make sure that they understand what the guidance that our guides have, what's driving them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's the hunters choice what they want to harvest within
[SPEAKER_01]: reasonable means, or within reasonable parameters.
[SPEAKER_01]: At Tajikistan for example, we're not supposed to shoot rams under eight years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: We try to go for nine plus nine ten eleven.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very rarely we'll see a twelve year old for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the attention we like to go for almost all of our trophies each year and nine ten or eleven years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: And within that range, that's going to give you the larger trophies, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to go for the biggest hole to stand hole.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what the tag allocation for to Jake stand is made for.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's made for trophy hunting tags.
[SPEAKER_01]: Any other wildlife management is done under advisement of the government and under their governments.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there needs to be a calling for disease management or whatever else,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's different.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the trophy hunting industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: The trophy hunting industry government side's based on surveys and all of their biologist research and data.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is how many tags we have this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that change from year to year pretty frequently?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it does for
[SPEAKER_00]: The herd managers, whatever they happen to call them in the host state like you said if there's some kind of disease going around or some bullshit like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for you guys for trophies, is there a pretty wide disparity between the tags this year and next year or is it pretty much consistent most of the time?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty consistent.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some variants here and there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, a lot of it comes down to the information that the government receives from survey data.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be great if somebody, I don't know how big of a sports fan you are, but a couple of years ago, F-One Racing was kind of going the same direction as NASCAR, which is the same, nobody gave a fuck anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Netflix does this documentary, not about not about
[SPEAKER_00]: the races themselves, but about all the periphery, the personalities, the mechanics, the companies that are involved, the physics behind it, I mean everything, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of a sudden F-One signs this ten-year deal with Vegas to have a race there every year, and they built the city around it for a couple of weeks, every year, and then they did it in a couple of other cities as well, and it's starting to hear an Austin at Coto as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's starting to blow up again, and then Netflix followed up with,
[SPEAKER_00]: one on golf.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those hyper-successful and driving new people to golf.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there have been people in the industry who have done stuff, meaty, or like Renella's done, plenty of stuff like that in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those, it's most of the people that don't know about the hunting shows you've seen on TV specifically.
[SPEAKER_00]: This doesn't apply to Steve's show, but most of them were paying the channels to put their information on there, which is kind of fucked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: where it seems like a good idea for somebody to do a documentary on this that really has people that are in the industry explain what's happening about herd management and all this other stuff that's going on because it kind of gets a bad wrap and mostly from people that don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you met Robby Kruger?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it looks like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's somebody you need to talk to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Robby does probably the best job of that, bridging the gap between knowledge and exposure to comfort and familiarity with, you know, folks that aren't.
[SPEAKER_01]: heavily engaged in hunting industry or in art part of it, but making them feel more comfortable with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen him on, I think he was on Andy Stump show a couple months ago, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen him around.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe he did some stuff with
[SPEAKER_00]: with somebody else to that I know, but I've never met a big that would be a good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really interested in something like that because he's he's somebody that you should have here on the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love that just like people need to get educated about what's actually going on over there and back here, right, because there's a lot of stupid shit that goes on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, I guess it's the same as anything else when government gets involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: People that have no idea what they're talking about start making decisions like reintroducing predator animals in Washington and fucking Dent and Colorado.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, for, and then making it, I'll be able to hunt them and it's like, you guys
[SPEAKER_00]: should not in any way be involved in this process people that are soft hand politicians should not be making decisions when it comes to wildlife management that is out of fucking control and you know you know there's going to be consequences there's already consequences to it there's already been consequences to it I don't know so what am I really good friends is Derek Wolfe I don't know if you're if you guys know each other or not he's a former defensive end for the Broncos when they won the Super Bowl in twenty fifteen
[SPEAKER_00]: big hunter.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you ever saw that giant dude with the fucking Viking braids that killed a mountain line with his bare hands holding it up, that's Derek.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a fucking lunatic, but he's been, I didn't know much about what was going on in Denver in the Pacific Northwest with some of these decisions that were being made by politicians about this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he started telling me about, I'm like, what the fuck is going on up there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are these people even involved in this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's far outside of my scope and knowledge, but in agreement with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: people who open on how to manage wildlife but don't step outside of their urban terrarium and want to, you know, rule from high because their heart beat gets about.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see any logic behind it either and there's no accountability on their ends either.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just want to make sure that people aren't doing mean things to animals and the
[SPEAKER_01]: especially with my work in Africa, of course, I run into a lot of those.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a, we, the generally accepted term that's not overly polarizing is, we just call them anti-huntures, they don't like hunting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the biggest difference that I've seen observed between anti-huntures and hunting conservationists is,
[SPEAKER_01]: Anti-hunter's are concerned with saving the animal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hunter conservationists are concerned with conservation of the species.
[SPEAKER_01]: Big difference, big difference now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, don't wanna save this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, let's make sure that this, you know, George, Fred, whatever you wanna call him, Cecil.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make sure that he isn't harmed by humans, or do you care more about
[SPEAKER_01]: these species, the entire herd.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, beyond her, but the herd species, the entire population in a particular geography or globally, that's the big difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: their opinions, their actions, the anti-onders, just is so much more narrow than a hunter-considerationist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there is some quite a bit of
[SPEAKER_01]: happiness and pleasure attached to trophy hunting and you know just hunting in general even even just meat hunting yeah we like it we enjoy it part of the reason why we do it but also
[SPEAKER_01]: hunters not all, but many of us go quite a bit deeper into understanding the value that that brings.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it can be counterintuitive to some that's for the difficulty in the conversation is, but I mean, you're a well managed herd.
[SPEAKER_01]: The data is in.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that does.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you really want to look at
[SPEAKER_01]: what it means for health of a herd or the health of wildlife in general, measure Kenya versus South Africa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, start in the start in the nineteen seventy and then measure it to today.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's all your answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all that stuff requires quite a bit of effort.
[SPEAKER_00]: It also requires funding, which is, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's become a pretty symbiotic relationship between people who want to experience some of this big game hunting and the local's ability to protect and conserve.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a good thing they exist, which leads me to my final question which is what's this stuff cost because it sounds pretty goddamn expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, trophy hunting in Asia is the most expensive ones in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our entry level hunt, where we see a lot of our younger hunters, guys that are in their mid-late twenties, even starting their hunting career in Asia, Mid-Asian Ibex in Kerepristin.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can find a Mid-Asian Ibex hunt in Kerepristin for
[SPEAKER_01]: really anywhere between somebody might say it one now for seven grand or so.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then on the higher end, especially if you're going for a particular size of animal, maybe guys even have one pre-scouted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard of them being sold for upwards of thirty forty thousand.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the low end.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the higher end, fold the very high end, mark or.
[SPEAKER_01]: especially if somebody wanted to go for a scarred mark or I would bet whoever hunts the scarred mark or this year there's only one tag per year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoever hunts that that animal this year will likely to pay somewhere in the range of four hundred five hundred thousand cars each.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I guess if you got it, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you want to say part of that's written by the exclusivity of it, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's heavy competition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Part of that's written by, you know, the premium that whoever the author is puts on it, plus they're often in costs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, competition at the auction.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an auction tag.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's only one year you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's one scarry mark or hunted every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going back and forth right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're trying to decide whether they do it every other year or one each year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Julius still up in the home.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the the full population size?
[SPEAKER_00]: of Scotty Markworth?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're only a Pakistan, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's only a Pakistan.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got this survey data here somewhere in my desk, but I want to say for Scotty, it's less than a store, a store I want to say is it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want to say it's about, most of six thousand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a store has got a pretty healthy population.
[SPEAKER_01]: Scardu is going to be a bit under that probably probably a couple thousand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I've got the data here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have to look at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got Kashmir, Kashmir.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say it's got six or eight thousand.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the difference between a scar do in a cashmere, if I recall, is like the cashmere has kind of wavy but straighter antlers and then there's a scar do has got more of like a loop.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what the words are.
[SPEAKER_00]: You used to describe that shit, but they're there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So scar do is just reclassifies its own subspecies two years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: GSEO runs those species reclassifications, and there's a number of criteria that they go by.
[SPEAKER_01]: Geographic separation, characteristic differences, genetic differences.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a laundry list that goes into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is an obvious considerable difference between scar due and a store.
[SPEAKER_01]: Scar due used to be just under a store, mark or.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now if you ask, if you ask Dr. Zekir, the chief conservator in Golden Maltestown, he'd say that in this widely believed, he'd say there's enough scientific data to prove it, but the belief is that the a store mark or is actually the subspecies.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's a product of the stardoo and the cashmere breeding that we're time into breeding over time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what came out of it was a store reasonable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you know, looking at a horn profile, especially the cashmere is a bit more bladed curl.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the store doesn't have as much curl to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got, you know, one or two usually good sized curls in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The scar do more comes out like a palm and then sweeps back and a lot of pictures you wouldn't even see it sweep back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the tips go to the rear and you know, the camera's shooting straight.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't really see the tips.
[SPEAKER_00]: out to look into that it's interesting when they decide to reclassify something because there's got to be like a significant DNA difference to I believe this I think it's like maybe three percent or something like that it's it's something it's not it doesn't sound that big in your head I care what the numbers are but it's got there's like different effects of the animal also that have to be kind of different it's pretty it's it's very interesting the fact that somebody even keeps track of that shit is uh... kind of why you just realized how large the market is
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean by that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll hit the classification side with the, probably the easiest example and then I'll go into the market side.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Spanish I've X currently, there are four subclassifications of Spanish I've X. You've got the, you've got the Rhonda, the Southeastern and the greatest.
[SPEAKER_01]: So those four subspecies, all four of them are very, very different in appearance.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't look anything like children, horn profiles mainly.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're very different.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have significant geographic separation.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are enough characteristics to them that GCOs classify them as completely separate subspecies.
[SPEAKER_01]: SCI as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Genetically, they are identical.
[SPEAKER_01]: same amount of when it gets imported in the United States, it is under the same cost of pension as the next one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but as far as the market, there is a considerably large international hunting market for OS and camera species.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm surprised there aren't more organizations like GSEO that focus solely on OS and camera.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got Balshi Foundation, GSEO, SCI, and that doesn't really have a big three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: have a significant involvement in the international Ovis and Capra hunting market as far as a large organization perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's, that is just tiptoeing into the weeds because I know goes way deeper.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have time for any of that shit today.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is all fascinating to me as is the industry itself and being able to, I think there's been
[SPEAKER_00]: I pretty decent effort over the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say five to eight years to get people, especially here in the States back into hunting for meat.
[SPEAKER_00]: particularly in particular but also kind of to educate on the conservation side so that's all good you know relying on Brazil for the bulk of your protein is not a good idea in my opinion what do I know but tell everybody where they can find you and your outfit and everything in case they want to engage with this stuff and then all your social media too so they can see some of the tropics because there's some pretty cool shit on here
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all of it's just easily accessible by our website or if you type in Arcos into your Instagram.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the advantages to have a unique name.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't get misspelled with anything else you're not going to find another business by accident.
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody made a golf app, though, that totally ripped off our name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's an ARPA golf app apparently that came out sometime in the last year, spelled differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, ARCQLS, there is no U in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's only six letters.
[SPEAKER_01]: That'll take you to our website, or our social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's broken down by a country that you service on the site, which is very interesting and informative.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, go check this stuff out.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a big market for this stuff and there's a reason for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I really encourage people to get more educated on what this is and why so many people are into it both domestically and internationally.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a big,
[SPEAKER_00]: When people say go touch grass, they're kind of being, you know, flipping about it, but there is something about being connected to nature that makes you, I don't even know what you would call it, more content, a better person probably, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: The farther we get away from nature, the farther we get away from our true nature as human being.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a good thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And appreciate you guys for doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love consuming the content myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never been on one of these big game international ones, but one of these days I'll get some time to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks for coming today.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate your time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll we'll link up against soon and thank you all for listening.