[SPEAKER_07]: Hey, everybody.
[SPEAKER_07]: Welcome back to the Prechoice podcast.
[SPEAKER_07]: Today I'm sitting down with Lindsay Williams.
[SPEAKER_07]: She's a friend of the show who's been on before and I always love getting to chat with her.
[SPEAKER_07]: She had a background in kind of the built-offered IBLP world.
[SPEAKER_07]: And you may have seen her in shows like Amazon Primes, Shiny Happy People.
[SPEAKER_07]: And today we're going to be talking about a specific book titled Terminal in the Toy Box by Phil Phillips.
[SPEAKER_07]: This book came out during the height of the Satanic panic and warns against the dangers of really sinister objects and toys like He Man and Masters of the Universe or Dungeons and Dragons or Care Bears.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, all the really dark stuff that you can experience as a kid.
[SPEAKER_07]: He covers it all in this book.
[SPEAKER_07]: And honestly this conversation was supposed to be more of like a
[SPEAKER_07]: page by page, chapter by chapter review of the book highlighting some of the biggest silly points in it.
[SPEAKER_07]: But about midway through, we ended up putting the book down and just kind of talking about the things that scared the hell out of us when we were fundamentalist kids.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so for those of you that like podcast episodes that feel more like the friendly conversation where you're sitting at the dinner table, talking or you're on FaceTime with a friend discussing a book you read, this episode is for you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe at some point we'll come back and do a more structured formal conversation, but this was really just a cathartic, ex-fundy conversation that I think so many of you in my audience will relate to.
[SPEAKER_07]: So without further ado, let's get in my conversation with Lindsay Williams.
[SPEAKER_07]: The year is in nineteen eighty six.
[SPEAKER_07]: The biggest threat the church has ever faced appears in the form of he-man and the masters of the universe.
[SPEAKER_07]: Only one person will armor up and defeat this enemy, and that is Phil Phillips, the author of turmoil in the toy box.
[SPEAKER_07]: Here with me today, talk about his incredible contribution to Christian literature, his Lindsey Williams.
[SPEAKER_07]: Lindsey, welcome to the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm so glad to always be here and have these amazingly riveting conversations with you, Eric.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, we'll see how riveting this is considering the subject.
[SPEAKER_07]: What's funny is I introduced him just now with as much seriousness as he was actually introduced in the specials that you watch.
[SPEAKER_07]: I brought you here to talk about the book turmoil in the toy box.
[SPEAKER_07]: Somebody
[SPEAKER_07]: And if you're this person comment again, if you want your name out there, I've recommended this book be talked about.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, I've never heard of this book.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think.
[SPEAKER_07]: I've heard of many different versions of similar books like this, none of the things in this book were new to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: I picked it up and I was like, I watched a special with him.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I was like, I need to order the book.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I thought, maybe I'll go chapter by chapter and do like a little Patreon series or something.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I started reading the book and was like, it's so repetitive.
[SPEAKER_07]: No one's going to listen to that.
[SPEAKER_07]: But I thought, why not a general overview.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I thought, why?
[SPEAKER_07]: Who better to talk about this with?
[SPEAKER_07]: Then one of I BLPs best from brightest, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so you're brightest again.
[SPEAKER_07]: You are familiar with this book.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_07]: What was your entry point to it?
[SPEAKER_07]: What was your introduction to it?
[SPEAKER_03]: My introduction was my parents bringing it home from one of the IBLP dogauthored seminars.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I it's hard for actually, this was written in eighty six, then we were already in the home schooling program.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think, or for the one that you have, the first let me ask you, do you have the one that says like a hundred thousand copies or a hundred fifty thousand?
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, there's money.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you haven't even more advanced copy.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's funny to update it every fifty thousand just like slow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and he is self proclaimed on this self proclaimed that it's this or I think it got up to three hundred thousand sold or whatever.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I read a blog like smearing him and it was like I think it was a Christian like watch dog blog or something but it was like
[SPEAKER_07]: Harold did by no one but himself as a bestselling author.
[SPEAKER_07]: I thought it was such a funny, funny line.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, Harold did by no one, but himself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Please self-proclaimed.
[SPEAKER_07]: But anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this book was brought into our home via Bill Gothard's seminars.
[SPEAKER_03]: especially with the homeschooling seminars and the program that he had put together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, the goal and the focus was to raise the most godliest kids possible on the planet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so you got to protect them from literally everything that could possibly infiltrate their spirits, their soul, their minds.
[SPEAKER_01]: God tells us, in his word, that he has laid out a series of principles, laws,
[SPEAKER_01]: that if we violate these laws, then he will begin to bring certain consequences to us as a nation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this was brought into the home and at this point we've been in the homeschooling program.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think from eighty four to eighty six.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, maybe a year or two.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were watching some TV at the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we were allowed to watch Saturday morning cartoons.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, my parents would be in bed.
[SPEAKER_03]: We would get all the cereal bowls.
[SPEAKER_03]: We would sit and watch a few different cartoons.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I remember the Smurf's being one of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember, um, my little pony, I think, or somewhere in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Rainbow Bright might have been in the mix and, uh, he, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Thundercats was also another one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember really liking the Thundercats.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were really cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: But when my parents brought this book into the home, I've said it in the shiny happy people documentary that every time they would go away to a seminar, they would come back and take more away from us.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was a pretty strong one in my childhood because I think at this point I'm like eight or nine years old.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've got a six year old brother and we're getting a half year old brother.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we clearly have toys from having seen these shows and, you know, so turmoil in the toy box basically explains to you how and why every single one of these toys is related to the cult.
[SPEAKER_03]: to the occult.
[SPEAKER_03]: And how this little thing on this this my little pony backside equals the occult or he men was his biggest biggest focus.
[SPEAKER_03]: He man is master of the universe.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's not true.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jesus is the master of the universe.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet kids are running around church going, he man, he has the power.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, Phil just couldn't handle that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was like, that Jesus has the power.
[SPEAKER_11]: My dad was talking about my presentation in a church and a little boy was seen afterwards.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I didn't even do the presentation.
[SPEAKER_11]: And afterwards, he was seen in the parking lot.
[SPEAKER_11]: Now, this kid growing up in a Christian home, going to church, Sunday School, the whole shot, right?
[SPEAKER_11]: Out in the parking lot with he man in his hand, running around in circles saying, he man has more power than Jesus.
[SPEAKER_11]: He man has more power than Jesus.
[SPEAKER_10]: So we can assume that millions of children that you say watch these programs are having their minds transformed from reading the Word of God or believing what the Bible says to believing what the cartoons are saying.
[SPEAKER_10]: They have that kind of influence on their minds.
[SPEAKER_10]: They're taking on many gods.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very dramatic and it's very uninformed, but for parents who are trusting the hierarchy of Bill Gothard, if he's going to recommend this book, well, by all means, this guy's been vetted.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, he knows what he's talking about because Bill has, you know, given his stamp of approval on the book.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it very quickly.
[SPEAKER_03]: The toys were
[SPEAKER_03]: Remove Star Wars was another really, really big one.
[SPEAKER_03]: My brothers and I, even to this day, I'm obsessed with Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't ask me all the lore, but I do love the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and Star Wars ended up like we had the Millennium Falcon and that had to go away and that hurts my heart even to this day.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, especially when you see how much they sell for on eBay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no joke, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: My mom had Barbies from the fifties from her own mom.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they ended up having to be removed as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I will always hurt over that because like the cloud Barbie was in that mix.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just things that could have been, you know, that were endeared to me even at that age.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, sorry, God's more important.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the Barbies going to ruin my daughter's view of herself.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a being God ruined, you know, via God and this like conditioning and indoctrination, that actually ruined me a whole lot more than I think of a Barbie could have possibly.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, he was pivotal in my parents, like having the strength and the fortitude to be like, yep, nope, all toys go.
[SPEAKER_07]: So Lindsay, intermole in the toy box, Phil Phillips warns against anything that has to do with magic magic ones, magic cards, he man in the masters of the universe.
[SPEAKER_07]: You could be summoning something horrible into your living room, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say something that will upset all the former and current youth pastors out there.
[SPEAKER_07]: There's actually one kind of magic that I am all for.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it comes in a tiny green bottle.
[SPEAKER_07]: A few weeks ago, the team over at Magic Mind reached out and sent me some of their product and said to take it for a week, let people know what I thought.
[SPEAKER_07]: And of course, this is the first time that I've done this.
[SPEAKER_07]: I used Magic Mind pretty much every single week, at least every other day, if not every day.
[SPEAKER_07]: And uh, I did it again.
[SPEAKER_07]: And guess what?
[SPEAKER_07]: Using Magic Mind did not open a portal to the underworld.
[SPEAKER_07]: It opened a portal to actually getting my to do list done.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know about you, but I always struggle with brain fog where I'm trying to get things done or if I have an urgent deadline and it can be really, really frustrating.
[SPEAKER_07]: And with magic wine, I noticed that it helps me get into a focused creative headspace fast.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't get jitters like sometimes you get with coffee, I don't have a crash like you get with sugar.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's just a calm, steady energy for a few hours and I've described this a billion times and I'll describe it one more time for my listeners.
[SPEAKER_07]: It literally feels for me like that brain fog.
[SPEAKER_07]: I can feel those kind of clouds rolling back.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's because it's just simply a new topic that boost your attention and memory gives you adaptions to keep stress and check and it has time release caffeine so you don't spike and then crash which I know is a big issue.
[SPEAKER_07]: Plus they use nano encapsulation which is a big fancy scientific word that basically means your body's going to absorb it a lot better and a lot faster.
[SPEAKER_07]: So you're going to feel it working and you're going to feel it a lot longer.
[SPEAKER_07]: So if you want to take part in this incredible form of magic, go to magicmind.com slash PBOIS-Fifty.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's magicmind.com slash the letter P, the word boys, and the number fifty, and use code P boys-Fifty for fifty percent off your first subscription.
[SPEAKER_07]: And they've got a hundred-day money back guarantee.
[SPEAKER_07]: So if you don't love it, you simply get your money back.
[SPEAKER_07]: No exorcism required.
[SPEAKER_06]: It is a backup.
[SPEAKER_06]: These beauties.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and for people listening, Phil Phillips basically does need three categories of toy can go into.
[SPEAKER_07]: It can be a cult, a moral
[SPEAKER_07]: or Christian.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's one of those three.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's very rigid categories.
[SPEAKER_07]: And basically, the amoral is like a toy train, a baby doll, you know, everything else is basically a cult.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I don't think he gives any examples of like what a Christian toy is.
[SPEAKER_07]: At least that I remember.
[SPEAKER_07]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, staff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are the questions.
[SPEAKER_07]: fun for the whole family.
[SPEAKER_07]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: So, so, like I mentioned, like this this book specifically, maybe I haven't asked my press, maybe they would be like, yeah, we remember people reading that.
[SPEAKER_07]: But all the things that are in it, like I said, were paraded and talked about and, you know, we've all heard if you grew up in most
[SPEAKER_07]: fun and mail searches like the one that I grew up in, or you grew up in, you heard about backmasking, you heard about, you know, demonic imagery in music videos and on records and, you know, and you heard about witchcraft and sorcery and things like these gateways through children's entertainment to an extent where
[SPEAKER_07]: really like innocent things became villainized or there were things that were just like a big no-no.
[SPEAKER_07]: For you before we get started and I'm curious from a listening drop your answer the comments.
[SPEAKER_07]: What was like the the biggest thing you weren't allowed to watch or listen to that like when you tell people that they go that you weren't allowed to watch that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean I
[SPEAKER_03]: The problem for me, and maybe this isn't a shocker to anybody, but the problem for me is it was everything Eric.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't like, oh, you can still watch care bears, but you can't watch the Smurfs, or you can do this, but you can't do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was no more cartoons.
[SPEAKER_03]: no more secular toys.
[SPEAKER_03]: My grandmother actually gifted it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a lot of nieces, cousins, female cousins in the family.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I was, gosh, I was, it was very close to this age still.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very new.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I was eight or nine years old.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe ten at the most.
[SPEAKER_03]: But she bought us all cabbage patch dolls for Christmas because she loves to sew and she was making little doll clothes and wanted all of us cousins to like have our dolls with the same different like clothes, the same clothes.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was her goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Christmas morning, I opened up my present from my grandmother and there's the cabbage patch doll and I immediately sunk because I knew it was going to get thrown out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she had all these little stone clothes that she had made.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, my parents were like, oh, no, we can't have that in the home.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't even get to open it up and play with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It just went directly out of the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when my grandmother found out she lost her ever loving mind, and she was like, why in the world would you do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: That makes absolutely no sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, they're quoting turmoil in the toy box about how the guy that created cabbage patch dolls is a warlock and he deem vibes.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the occult comes into these when they're born in the cabbage patch.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so my grandmother went out and actually bought a doll that was the same size as the cabbage patch dolls and sent it to me very quickly so that I would not, you know, be the one kid that had her toy thrown out on Christmas day.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my parents definitely lived in extremes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we couldn't even, as we were getting older, we couldn't even watch veggie tales.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was, yeah, it was, so maybe that's the extreme, you know, where it was like, no, it's just there's the one that makes people go, oh, yeah, it was a little, it was a little more circular to them.
[SPEAKER_07]: But you know, similarly, you know, I would mention for a record my, my mom was always obsessed with literature.
[SPEAKER_07]: So like we had a lot more, she had media literacy.
[SPEAKER_07]: So we had a lot more
[SPEAKER_07]: we had a lot more room than a lot of people did when it came to what we watched.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like we were allowed to watch superhero movies and we were allowed to watch.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like there was a we would talk about stuff but like you know and we had like the rules like if it has cussing you can't watch it and like that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_07]: But then there were also these little weird influences like like you mentioned veggie tales one of the veggie tales movies has like a
[SPEAKER_07]: I might be getting who they're referencing wrong, but a backstreet boys like parody or boys or.
[SPEAKER_07]: Boys demand or and I think it's insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: New kids off in the block.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's like.
[SPEAKER_07]: Let me see, veggie tales.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm already going down there at a whole whole.
[SPEAKER_07]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think they're called.
[SPEAKER_07]: Boys in the sink is what it's called.
[SPEAKER_07]: We always had to mute that section or fast forward.
[SPEAKER_07]: So like there was like little things like that.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's the thing now.
[SPEAKER_07]: I always tell my wife where watch you speak.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like we had to mute this part.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, like when we're watching Spider-Man and they're at the festival with all the inflated bowls and she's singing.
[SPEAKER_07]: I forget what she's even singing.
[SPEAKER_07]: Very tame song and it was like mute mute that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like and so there was there was things like that.
[SPEAKER_07]: But like the big stuff for us was like
[SPEAKER_07]: Harry Potter.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like we check kind of like the obvious boxes in fundamentals of arts like witchcraft but like then other things were okay.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like there are people who were okay with Lord of the Rings but not Harry Potter and you know it was a very odd blend.
[SPEAKER_07]: Revisiting this book now.
[SPEAKER_07]: You started doing a TikTok series working through turmoil in the toy box.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh my goodness.
[SPEAKER_12]: Are you so excited I'm back and I have this book.
[SPEAKER_12]: The pain of my existence is a child.
[SPEAKER_07]: What prompted that first and foremost?
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, and then revisiting it, what did you note it?
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, what jumped out at you most digging back?
[SPEAKER_03]: The reason I started it was because it probably, I would say, is one of the most pivotal books from my childhood.
[SPEAKER_03]: This guy
[SPEAKER_03]: really locked into my parents' heads and into their belief system.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so any toy that was gifted to us or even if we would go, you know, sometimes there was a system that my parents put in place of like, if you did your chores and you did everything throughout the week, you would get a dime a day and then, you know, one dime would have to go to the church because you'd tie, then you would have ninety cents left over.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you would just, you know, we would work so hard, no after months, you'd be like, I can go buy a toy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you get to the store and you're like, well, I can't buy ninety percent of these toys, even though I really want them, I have to go get a kushball, which is also not bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love kushballs, but like, or slinkies or something, it's just like so, so like rudimentary, these toys versus, you know, toys are like making sounds and had cool hair and like, I was so into the barbies, which I mean, being an artist now, it doesn't surprise me, but they were just so pretty and glittery and, you know, just fantasy.
[SPEAKER_03]: But in the way that Phil Phillips kept like just cuts you off with the knees as a child, I didn't really day dream.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of like stopped in this fantasy world of like kind of he talks a little bit about this where he talks about like role play and but his role play is so gender specific like girls need to have dollies so they can learn to take
[SPEAKER_03]: care of children and then have a little play kitchen so they can make food and boys can have trucks and these kinds of things and building blocks because that's what boys do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was bored out of my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I just, I always had this resistance to it and yet I was like, what am I going to, what fantasy am I going to create with a couchball on the slinky?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like not really much.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then you go about like for me it was just getting into my home and like cleaning the house or I was always heavily praised for how meticulous I was and like yeah because I was bored I'm like over here with the toothbrush scrubbing tile because what else am I gonna do?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I decided to go into this book because I knew without a shadow of a doubt that this wasn't just touching fundamentalists
[SPEAKER_03]: Holmes, this was an evangelical mindset, too, because even though he might have started it, it just, you know, same with Bill Gothen, it's character qualities.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like people don't recognize the forty-nine character qualities at this point as being bills, but if you type it in in Google, it comes up on so many church websites of like these correct character qualities that people should live by.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I knew that the turmoil and the toy box and these evil occultic toys started with this guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, you know what, I don't know where he is on this planet right now, but you get to get a shout out, Phil Phillips.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I started it in like you when you were like, I don't know if I should just read chapter by chapter.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's actually what I was doing when I first started.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was reading a chapter and that kind of giving my cliff notes or sometimes just it was so ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to read all of this part of the chapter because he just fell in a mud hole.
[SPEAKER_03]: and his dad saved him and he really is how that's like kind of connected to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and he's so young but in his youth he's also doing what we were all doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was trying to find a connection to why he needed to have faith.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and as he's getting older, his dad is in ministry, his dad's an evangelist, and he's got other people around him that are also in ministry, and he, you see him floundering, because he's like, well, what is my ministry, Lord?
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to have one too.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I clearly, this guy didn't have toys either, because now he's trying to figure, you know, he falls in mud holes, and now he's trying to figure out what his future is going to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it ends up, he walks into a toy store.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is literally how, this is, this is how,
[SPEAKER_03]: This is how the Lord speaks to Christians.
[SPEAKER_03]: He walks into the toy store.
[SPEAKER_03]: He sees all this stuff and he's kind of like realizing like, wow, no one's really talking about this stuff.
[SPEAKER_11]: I was in the process of going on the mission field and working my way through that and speaking in different churches, the Lord directed me to go on a fourteen day fast.
[SPEAKER_11]: And during this fast, I did something very unusual.
[SPEAKER_11]: I walked into a toy store.
[SPEAKER_11]: And when I walked in the toy store, I was faced with a toy holding on a cult symbol in its hand.
[SPEAKER_11]: This got my curiosity upside purchased the toy and I read the comic book that was with it and it was a cultic practice within the comic book.
[SPEAKER_11]: So I talked about it in the church I was in that night.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he's creating down the road at some point.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's talking about how the Lord has spoken to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, I know, it wasn't an allowed booming voice, but I know how the Lord speaks to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he told me that, like, Phil, you need to do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is the kids need to be saved from this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, oh, Epiphany, okay, I found my ministry.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was just like, dude, you just like, having a little talk with yourself down the road and seeing an opportunity,
[SPEAKER_03]: You were just looking for your grift.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, let's be frank, what's your grift going to be?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so his grift was ruining people's childhoods and putting the fear of the occult into every parent.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I have a lot of secular friends that I don't see them, you know, out there being all occulti and having no lives ruined.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're very successful people.
[SPEAKER_07]: You'd love to keep part of the story.
[SPEAKER_07]: He had been fasting for several days before going to the toilet.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he was also delirious.
[SPEAKER_07]: So he was a little delirious, wondered in his awesome spooky toys, unsettled them, and uh, and heard the voice of God in the car, which is the spookiest thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: a slow, slow rumble, uh, take over.
[SPEAKER_07]: And uh, yeah, ends up going in this direction.
[SPEAKER_07]: And one of the, one of the things you kind of touch on that I think like jumped out to me reading through the book aside from just going like, oh, that's familiar.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's familiar.
[SPEAKER_07]: It really is a great thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: I am fascinated reading really bad writers and listening to really bad speakers in that world because they say a lot of things without any of the flowery wording around it, where it helps it go down.
[SPEAKER_07]: And one of the things that I think really pops out is what we'd say is legalism in the church background, but this idea that
[SPEAKER_07]: whatever you do isn't good enough because there's an arbitrary like or there's a kind of subjective standard that's set by whoever it is.
[SPEAKER_07]: So like for example,
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, he talks about it's good to play roles that affirm reality.
[SPEAKER_07]: So like in the future, a little girl is going to be a mother of nineteen kids and counting.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be a mother.
[SPEAKER_07]: So it's good for her to play with baby dolls, but then the next page is like, but the baby doll shouldn't be too realistic because then she'll get too attached to the baby and have an unnatural unrealistic relationship with this hungry plastic.
[SPEAKER_07]: But she should be playing with that rather than it's like there's you can see all these little things where it's like even the kid who's not playing with the occultic toys that's not playing with anything bad can like have it all they like too much and then all of a sudden they're sitting
[SPEAKER_07]: and all of a sudden, that needs to be nipped in the bud.
[SPEAKER_07]: And like, to me, that's like, you see that played out through people's adult lives where it's like, well, they're serving in the ministry, but are they doing it for the right reason?
[SPEAKER_07]: Or they're doing this, but are they doing, you know, and that's the part that really jumped out to me very early on was like, oh, yeah, the goalposts are moving, page by page, paragraph by paragraph.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he's also kind of, you see him processing as he's writing.
[SPEAKER_03]: doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
[SPEAKER_03]: He does not have a psychology degree.
[SPEAKER_03]: He does not have any education on child development.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's one part where has the illustration where you as a parent should go role in the mud with your children.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is the most laughable illustration.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's where he's like, this is what should be happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're just like, honey, I was trying to talk about the mud.
[SPEAKER_03]: You fell in it, remember?
[SPEAKER_07]: I was trying to find, did he have kids when he wrote this book?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he wasn't married.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was trying to look and see because one of his most recent books was a parenting book and I was and anyway, so I was like, did he have kids to me wrote this or is this another Bill Gother type where he's like, no children and let me tell you how to parent, you know, is
[SPEAKER_03]: No wife, no children, no really understanding as far as I said, the psychological workings of children.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: And unless people think we're being too harsh about the writing, I highlighted, I read this section like fifty times.
[SPEAKER_07]: And this is the quality of writing where it just repeats the same thing like six different ways.
[SPEAKER_07]: So parents would be wise to be aware of the toys with which their children are playing, especially those containing a cult symbols.
[SPEAKER_07]: Often parents are too busy to actively monitor the child's toys.
[SPEAKER_07]: More often than not, though, parents do not realize the harmful effects toys can have on children.
[SPEAKER_07]: Most people view toys as cute and innocent, merely child's play.
[SPEAKER_07]: They consider toys to be harmless, and nothing to be concerned about.
[SPEAKER_07]: So parents, parents should be aware, but they're not.
[SPEAKER_07]: Parents are too busy to actively monitor.
[SPEAKER_07]: Parents don't realize.
[SPEAKER_07]: Parents feel like you just said the same thing six times.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm not a rambling man.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, I don't promote people using AI to write their books, but this would have benefited from a quick run through and go, hey, critique this section.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, but even like because AI wasn't a thing in the eighties.
[SPEAKER_03]: He would love.
[SPEAKER_03]: He would love just I. How about just intelligence?
[SPEAKER_07]: Let me just say,
[SPEAKER_07]: I have a, I have a hunch that Phil Phillips would love.
[SPEAKER_07]: Chad G. B. T. For writing.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, good.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's the type of guy I can be like, write me a book about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that would be like strike that from the podcast because that if this guy hears this, that'll be the next thing he does if he finds about Amazon self publishing, you know, going to be in real trouble.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as you may have uncovered, but also I was talking to Chad Harris, also from shining happy people before you and I recorded.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it has come to light and I do actually have
[SPEAKER_03]: the insert from one of the books that he had an editor and ghost writer for turmoil in the toy box one turmoil in the toy box two and so this did have an editor
[SPEAKER_03]: And this goes for her name is Joan Hake Robbie.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think at this point, she was already in her fifties, not sure if she was married and had kids or how to child psychology background.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, she wrote a piece.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but she, but she was the editor and ghost writer of the best selling turmoil in the toy box, again, best selling by who's, oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that's really embarrassing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's even worse.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's even worse when you're like, and you had a net at her.
[SPEAKER_07]: Because you could be like, well, I mean, he wrote it by himself and he's a go-getter and things look like the cracks.
[SPEAKER_07]: A lot of things slip through the cracks, most of the books slip through the cracks.
[SPEAKER_07]: But not incredible that two people putting their heads together wrote this.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I found my immediate next read because if there's any cartoon that I was obsessed with, it was Ninja Turtles.
[SPEAKER_07]: And that's how a critical analysis.
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe, no, I could be wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you can go for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was also the ones that Dungeons and Dragons.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can't remember if she's the one that did it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's full Phillips.
[SPEAKER_07]: Because he did a Power Rangers one, actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, Power Rangers.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I know he did Dungeons and Dragons as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, he did a cassette.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a, it's, yes, it's like a sermon that he's giving.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the funny thing is you had on this before two is that like there's a lot of stuff where his argumentation is literally like he man says he's the master of the universe, but there's only one master of the universe that she's us.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I was reading excerpts.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like all of his books have that kind of like level of logic where it's like, um, he was talking about power Rangers and one of the excerpts that I read of one of his books.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think he did a full book on Power Rangers called the Truth of the Power Rangers.
[SPEAKER_07]: And, um, like his argument about karate being depicted is that karate is self-defense, but the Lord is our defense.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I was like,
[SPEAKER_07]: it's just I love a commentary here buddy
[SPEAKER_03]: This type of rhetoric creates such a paranoia too for parents.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's like, oh, I've got to be so aware of everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, my parents got to a point where we couldn't go to friends houses anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they just, they just absolutely kept on like putting us in a small and small or kind of confinement because if they knew that those neighbors watched Saturday morning cartoons or if they saw, you know, anything out on the lawn or a hemantoy or something, like we were no longer able to go there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then even more embarrassing if we were, we,
[SPEAKER_03]: If they were watching cartoons or they had the toy, we would have to assert our beliefs and say, I'm sorry, I've given my life to the Lord Jesus Christ and I can't play with that toy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you would have to go home and explain to your parents that you said it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, it wasn't enough to just, you know, oh, yeah, I'm not interested.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go play with the stick outside or I'm going to go eat honey suckles.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like I, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to give you this whole long speech of my arrogant piousness at the age of ten.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: As to why you're a bad person and I'm so much better than you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's, well, and it capitalizes on the fear, like, thinking through, in the eighties six, which is the version that I have, or actually, that was the first publishing in the original.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, eighties six.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think eighties six was the first public.
[SPEAKER_07]: First printing.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: So
[SPEAKER_07]: When you have a book like this, it's print in nineteen six, you're right in the midst of this cultural kind of panic around all these groups popping up.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's a perfect opportunity for guys like Kim to jump in and go like, yeah, you think it's just these people and robes, but also it's the cartoons that are being pumped into your house every single day.
[SPEAKER_07]: You mentioned at the top of the show.
[SPEAKER_07]: He man was kind it.
[SPEAKER_07]: You could name this book like the dangers of he man.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's literally the majority of his content.
[SPEAKER_07]: And the accompanying video presentation.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it's so hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to show these pages.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, which honestly what's so funny is like
[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, these toys are cool.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, I was really, really cool.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, this is sick.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, and it's no different.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I've got the comic here from nineteen eighty two, I think.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's got the same.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, uh, it's got a little bit of my camera, but I was looking through.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, maybe I should be into human.
[SPEAKER_07]: This is having the opposite effect.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, this is, this is low.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved the tiger.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was not over here.
[SPEAKER_07]: That was pretty sick.
[SPEAKER_07]: This is cool.
[SPEAKER_07]: And in one of the antique stores in Vegas, they have like the full castle school.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, that's kind of sick.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe you would look cool in the background of my podcast for no reason.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_07]: Throw it in there.
[SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, he, he, man, take me back.
[SPEAKER_07]: You're, um, you're a little bit older than I am.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, but like, he has like all of these, all of these images of the toys.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know if you read this part in the book, but like, he, he read the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: I read the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: You went through with a photographer and sorry, guys, mate, you're completely disappearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here, I gotta do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's taking all these blind spots.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: The background's making such a problem.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll switch.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he's taking all these pictures with the black and white or not black and mine is just printed.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but he's taking all these images and he's with a photographer and one of the lights blows.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they get really creeped out because they're like Satan is trying to thwart us from putting this book together.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they just they feel it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this is why this book is meant to be because Satan is trying so hard.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, I've been on photoshoot for twenty years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know how many lights blow up?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like just like poof.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, or an electrical cord, short sound or, you know, a gel over a light literally catches on fire.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's just, this is just all a part of it, Phil.
[SPEAKER_07]: It could be your demonic presence to be fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: That could be, but I mean, but I didn't have these toys.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what, what demons do I have if they, if they, they weren't in my life?
[SPEAKER_07]: Explain to me the he, man.
[SPEAKER_07]: phenomenon because he man was like a whisper to me when I was growing up.
[SPEAKER_07]: It was like it didn't mean anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of fizzled.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, fizzled out by then.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was no longer the master of the universe.
[SPEAKER_07]: He man seems like it was going nuts during this time period.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't know if I can fully, fully give you an accurate description because, you know, I mean, it was young and impressionable sure, but I just remember that it was everywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: The cartoon was just so electric and so much energy and I don't
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't profess to know what was before he man, but I feel like it came out with so like there was so much magic to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, all these different characters that did really cool things, you know, like, remember the guy, but it was like head twisted around and like I love the cat, you know, the tiger and, you know, for me, I got real jazzed when it went from just being like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude bros with masses of the universe and they brought Shiro on the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, Shiro, oh my god, and her Pegasus and I was like, oh, I want to be Shiro.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I understand this like, you know, kids were really like their imaginations were really lit on fire.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember my brother was running outside being like,
[SPEAKER_03]: It was fun, but guess what?
[SPEAKER_03]: We're in the eighties.
[SPEAKER_03]: We still went outside and played.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there's not playing video games or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're still we're getting outside.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were using our imaginations.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't ever remember going to bed at night thinking, wow, I think there's a demon sitting on my bed because...
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, considering Shira as like a really cool rock star girl, but but I think because of this satanic panic because of the push of so much fundamentalism at the time, like I said earlier when you and I could write some quacky book like this, it's simply because it's so easy to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you know the narrative of fundamentalism and Christianity, it's so easy to just like
[SPEAKER_03]: draw the lines, you know, between the things and make those correlations.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if enough people know that vernacular, then yeah, they're like, oh my god, it's so true.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that was it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there was also just like, it wasn't just he-man, although, I mean, he was on every store shelf and cereal boxes and clothes, you know, printed teas in the eighty were everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it was just all the things.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it was just permeated everywhere and Christians.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to kind of put the blanket statement on that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Christians live in so much fear.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just takes one small thing for them to be so afraid of something instead of saying, look, this isn't that deep.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, kids are playing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it was just all the fear.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there were so many other cartoons that were coming out at the time, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, Thundercats and all the other things that were playing on TV as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was like, now you're hitting in that that eighties era, you're hitting all of these magical mystical.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can do it by crazy powers.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, wait, we don't want our kids to think about any other power, but God.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you translate that?
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you go, well, this is fun right here as a parent.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is fantasy and playtime, but we still have our Bible studies and I think kids are able to figure out, like, God is a spiritual thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Toys are a fun fantasy thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But instead of doing that, they're just like nope, go live in a bunker and see none of this do none of it or like we don't we love the phrase, you know, being in the world, but not of the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then we're tortured as kids, we're getting dragged through a toy store.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to go get a birthday present for someone and we're literally judging
[SPEAKER_03]: the toy shells I remember doing it as a young kid like I know we can't have that we couldn't give her that we couldn't get that for her because it has like that symbol on it or there's like an upside down heart over here look at that possibly mean you know and so now you're again you're stuck in this space of judging everything being afraid of it all that that's not healthy healthy either fill like creating all this panic and paranoia
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm trying to answer your question.
[SPEAKER_07]: Measure in this skirt on the TV.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, and yeah, and there's so many examples he gives like quoting kids saying like he man has more power than Jesus or he man.
[SPEAKER_07]: He man will save us mommy and like these things are just like silly things kids would say.
[SPEAKER_07]: But it's like a panic of like oh my god, I can't believe they just said that and like we need to really lock this down.
[SPEAKER_07]: I did think of one random
[SPEAKER_07]: funny thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: There was a old family in our church growing up and very old.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like Salem's lot, like imagine the vampire from Salem's lot, times like five.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like very old, like they've been a hundred forever and very odd stuffy family that rode around and like this old blacked out school bus.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm pretty sure they were vampires.
[SPEAKER_07]: But they would go off Christians.
[SPEAKER_07]: But they were like, they were very like, they always like suits.
[SPEAKER_07]: They were addresses.
[SPEAKER_07]: They did the head, like the way they were.
[SPEAKER_13]: We were going to call in family of the Christian world.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, like a very unsexy version of it.
[SPEAKER_07]: We're not so far too, then twilight.
[SPEAKER_13]: Okay, okay, sure.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: But they had a very, I need to get a copy of her book, but they were terrified of like any motion pictures.
[SPEAKER_07]: So like, she wrote in her book this lady, she wrote in her book about when the TV was introduced her dad woke up screaming and sweating and was like,
[SPEAKER_07]: The monster, the monster, the one-eyed monster, which is a really funny nickname.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's in the book.
[SPEAKER_07]: The one I'd master and he was talking about this glowing TV screen and basically they had this belief that like through motion pictures like it was opening a portal.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so in church whenever when we switched from mystery presentations, this is what's weird is like I am on the borderline of Gen Z where like I'm millennial and one right from Gen Z.
[SPEAKER_07]: but technology in the IP's so slow.
[SPEAKER_07]: We're like, I remember them bringing in the slides and having a slide projector where they would be like, run it.
[SPEAKER_07]: And when missionary switched from that to like an actual projector, it was a huge deal to them.
[SPEAKER_07]: And anytime there was gonna be one, they would all get up, leave, go to the DACA, the church, and then come back in once was over.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I remember like, I was so interested in movies growing up and filmmaking.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was right out the camera from the time I was like a little kid.
[SPEAKER_07]: and I should remember to tell my dad like it's twenty four pictures a second it's pictures is it's going really fast I was like it's like a slide projector but fast he's like
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know how to tell him that, like it's just, that's what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always sit down and explain to them.
[SPEAKER_07]: But you mentioned it's like going to go the the fear side.
[SPEAKER_07]: This sentence kind of sums up this.
[SPEAKER_07]: I wrote this down and again read it like fifty times because I was like, what?
[SPEAKER_07]: Dungeons and Dragons is another big piece that comes up in the in the book.
[SPEAKER_07]: But he gives a list of things that
[SPEAKER_07]: are scary about it.
[SPEAKER_07]: And again, it's like it's almost like you're shooting a shotgun blast at like Christian fears to go like what?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: One of these will stick and they'll be like, yeah, we agree.
[SPEAKER_07]: So he said after extensive research, Christian life ministries and other experts have concluded that Dungeons and Dragons is not a game.
[SPEAKER_07]: Instead, they claim it is teaching on demonology.
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's keep track of it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Demonology, witchcraft, voodoo, murder, rape, blasphemy, suicide, assassination, insanity, sex perversion, homosexuality, prostitution, Satan worshiping, gambling, young Ian psychology.
[SPEAKER_07]: Barbarism, cannibalism, sadism, desecration, demon summoning, necromantics, and wait, there's more and divination.
[SPEAKER_07]: In fact, these are all behaviors and practices that God forbids in the old and new testaments.
[SPEAKER_07]: Remember when God forbade young key in psychology and in the Bible?
[SPEAKER_07]: I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right around numbers in due to rotomy somewhere.
[SPEAKER_07]: Somewhere in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: One of those.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: But it's like there's so many sections like that where it's like experts have concluded.
[SPEAKER_07]: that these five thousand things are all true about this topic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where is the report?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to see the out of the report on what studies were done.
[SPEAKER_07]: Pure review study on the Dr. Central against.
[SPEAKER_07]: As a kid consuming, so like you have the parents that are kind of in this like satanic panic that are like terrified of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_07]: But I'm curious for you, like
[SPEAKER_07]: How much of this filter to you were like, it became a concern for you, if it did.
[SPEAKER_07]: Cause like, I'm always fascinated by like the fears that like kind of pass through osmosis and to the kid.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's taught to you verbatim too, but like you kind of see the fear.
[SPEAKER_07]: Which of those things kind of like hit you really?
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm scared of this.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like I'm terrified of this.
[SPEAKER_07]: Assassination.
[SPEAKER_07]: That was the one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, are you talking about on that long list?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, not in the long list.
[SPEAKER_07]: No, not in the long list.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, not in the long list.
[SPEAKER_07]: No, not in the long list.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like sitting down, I'm like, I'm just, I saw it in this room.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know why.
[SPEAKER_07]: Why he has that?
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know who gave it to him.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know why he's listening to it, but it's really concerning to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's like, there's things like that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Some kids like, did you absorb any of the actual fear or was it just always like, my parents are being a bummer because I like this thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was gonna say, my fear was never getting to experience anything in life.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I did, I had fears that were probably a little more
[SPEAKER_03]: They were heavy, but I felt like I was, I was shown sort of proof a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think one of the biggest things that I was concerned about was actually demon possession.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I had seen two different times, someone that my parents, this woman and her friend,
[SPEAKER_03]: had come to stay at our home because you know we're always opening up our home for ministry and whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know what like who they were seeing where when they came to visit us, but it was some type of spiritual person that was going to help her with her demon possession.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I look at it now, and it was probably some type of schizophrenia or a mental health issue that, you know, Christians just don't want to believe.
[SPEAKER_03]: But she would go from, and she was this really tall woman, and like probably six foot two.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like, she could hurt people.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like she wasn't just like a tiny little four foot three lady, but she was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: She would revert to like, full on baby.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we would be sitting at the table and we would be eating and all the sudden she would get down and she would crawl over into the living room and just like start like slapping on the end table and you notice pacifying herself and then this lady, I remember, we'll never forget her name was Peggy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember her last name but Peggy would go over and she'd like, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then she would start like, you know, just praying to the Lord Jesus Christ to exercise, whatever it had had come back into this woman's soul.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so then my parents are kind of going over and also dealing with it and then the girls, the woman's like thrashing around and I was like, it's real.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, but I wasn't like, oh, if I still go play with my little pony, that's going to happen to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, yeah, but I never read.
[SPEAKER_03]: I never even correlated that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just like, well,
[SPEAKER_03]: Somehow you could just be living your life in a demonet just show up and ruin it for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't I also didn't have the wherewithal of like how do you steal yourself so that the devil can't possibly like embody you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you guys know the name Jim Logan.
[SPEAKER_03]: but in our community of IBLP and ATI, Jim Logan was known as kind of like this spiritualist, or I'm not spiritualist, what do we call?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he was always battling people with that, you know, had these like demonic possessions.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we would hear stories at the seminars of people who like, you know, a little girl with a sitter friend's house, and this TV show was on, and all of a sudden, demon possession,
[SPEAKER_03]: But I would still want to watch TV and I would still want to play with the toys, but there was still that inherent nervousness and anxiety in myself that that could possibly happen.
[SPEAKER_09]: The kit had all kinds of problems.
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I can't even tell you, it's a multiplied, multiplied problems.
[SPEAKER_09]: That was just one of many, many problems.
[SPEAKER_09]: As we commanded the spirits to speak, they were hooked up to slasher music.
[SPEAKER_09]: I didn't even know there was slasher music.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's music about rape and murder that kids listen to today.
[SPEAKER_09]: Harble music.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's a form of rock music that is just absolutely vile.
[SPEAKER_09]: And this kid was listening to it all the time.
[SPEAKER_09]: And spirits had come into him through this horrible slasher music now getting him to act out the very things he was listening to.
[SPEAKER_09]: We destroyed the music.
[SPEAKER_09]: The spirits left him.
[SPEAKER_09]: Those spirits left him.
[SPEAKER_09]: And he never had thoughts of rape and murder from that per time on.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I was just afraid of human beings to be quite frank.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was afraid of the humans in the world.
[SPEAKER_07]: That was a lot more me was like, was like fear of other religious groups.
[SPEAKER_07]: Fear of, yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: Add teachers or, you know, I mean, fear of martyrdom.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like I, it felt so, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's so interesting.
[SPEAKER_07]: Alice Gretchen and her book at the very beginning talks about like, there's what you
[SPEAKER_07]: She talks already in memoirs.
[SPEAKER_07]: She's like, there's what I experienced and what happened.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like basically like there's what I felt was a lot maybe wasn't a lot, but I know like for me like I felt like we heard stories about like martyrdom a lot, especially around.
[SPEAKER_07]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I mean, I, the stories of like, oh, Michigan fan was on a bus and people got on the bus and said, everybody on the Christian is a Christian sit on the right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Everyone who's not sit on the left and like, would you be willing to?
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you stand up for it?
[SPEAKER_07]: That conflict of like, would I, would I be able to do that?
[SPEAKER_07]: And like, I don't think I would.
[SPEAKER_07]: What does that mean?
[SPEAKER_07]: And like, there's so many layers to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I mean, I mean, back in, back in my era, like, we also had just all of the, you know, like Hudson Taylor and, you know, these other missionaries that, yeah, they went, you know, an Elliott James, oh, Gemelia, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: They go out and they do these things to the Lord.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I mean, it is wrong possibility that you will have to die for Christ.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I definitely had some looking back now mental health issues, like instability, like so much fear around, I was gonna die at a young age and no one was gonna remember me.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and you're just like, that is not a thought, a nine-year-old childhood house.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you shouldn't be thinking about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I should be playing with Shira.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_08]: Myself was all like real like it was like the Columbine story and like you know there's just a lot of a lot of layers to that I think of the Columbine shooting and massacre The two demon possessed boys came up to Cassie Bernal held a gun to her head and said are you a Christian?
[SPEAKER_08]: She said yes and they into her life a mortar for Christ, but she shot some arrows all the way till the time she went to heaven
[SPEAKER_07]: And then beyond that, like being taken up from your parents, like it from government agencies, your school being shut down, your church not being, you know, not being on to attend.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think that's where I was at.
[SPEAKER_07]: When it came to like the demonology stuff, that's something that, like, I was trying to like trace this the other day of like how this hit me, but it was like, I'd say around like,
[SPEAKER_07]: fifth, sixth grade, maybe early seventh grade was when some might my church experience was very much like there was what was preach which I would say compared to a lot of independent Baptist churches which the bar is very low for a lot of this like it was relatively standard like you know like
[SPEAKER_07]: you're going to go to hell and burn forever, you know, like that level of like baseline scary things.
[SPEAKER_07]: But like we didn't have like spiritual warfare conferences that I remember or like things were like, like demonic possession was something that like you wouldn't hear a lot of preaching from our main pastor about that, at least to or I just didn't retain it and blocked it out.
[SPEAKER_07]: But, but that wasn't there, but what I did get that stuff was like,
[SPEAKER_07]: after church standing in the back with like, who eventually came to eat pastor might might want to make teachers.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then guest speakers that would then be sharing like their war stories in the back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Other people.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's why I would hear that really scary stuff.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so I remember there was, and it came from people like, if I name them, people like that person.
[SPEAKER_07]: But I'm not going to because I just don't want to open the canoaries of people going, he didn't say that or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: But there was one in particular that was a very,
[SPEAKER_07]: Almost John MacArthur asked.
[SPEAKER_07]: like, first by verse, kind of a boring, just educational speaker.
[SPEAKER_07]: We never really shared over the top scary crazy stories.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I remember one time he got done speaking at this revival at our church.
[SPEAKER_07]: And we were in the back.
[SPEAKER_07]: It was my youth pastor.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think he was like, my, he's my fifth grade teacher at the time.
[SPEAKER_07]: Or fourth, whatever, blah, blah, blah, with one of my youth leaders at the time,
[SPEAKER_07]: with him and then like one or two other people.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I remember him starting to show these stories about like demon possession, quote unquote demon possession.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it was scarier to me because he wasn't someone who was like over the top outlandish all the time.
[SPEAKER_07]: So it felt like a doctor telling you like this thing happened.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so he told this story where he's like a pastor that I know
[SPEAKER_07]: was visiting, a Spider-Man has a friend.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know, but anyway, this pastor that I know was at this church.
[SPEAKER_07]: And he could sense a demonic presence.
[SPEAKER_07]: And this lady was just like laughing and demonic.
[SPEAKER_07]: And he said, I'm casting you out.
[SPEAKER_07]: I demand you leave this woman.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then he said, and then all of a sudden, we heard screaming, or he heard screaming from the nursery.
[SPEAKER_07]: Um, and he heard babies crying and screaming and he realized he hadn't told the demons where to go.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so the demons left the woman and went into the nursery.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so he's telling me this is a big elaborate story of like the deep the babies in the church.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I say we're possessed.
[SPEAKER_07]: I just remember as a kid, be like, what the heck?
[SPEAKER_07]: Like that's so scary way from the babies.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so that was like a really that's when that kind of star was like oh, that's really freaks me out and yeah, oh, you could open it and then my who became a faster really hammer that stuff with like music.
[SPEAKER_07]: He was really big onto that stuff.
[SPEAKER_07]: He was the one that dropped like the, you know, there's a lot of mental and seeing the silence are filled with undying or
[SPEAKER_07]: mental hospitals and asylum are filled with undiagnosed demon possession.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like they call it schizophrenia.
[SPEAKER_07]: They call it this.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that kind of stuck with me.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then it kind of died down when that relationship slipped away.
[SPEAKER_07]: But then my last step into that world was I read a book called Satan Cast out by Frederick Leahy.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think his name and my last bump out of like
[SPEAKER_07]: Christianity was like I was obsessed with like demon like that it freaked me out so much and I was so certain that like it was a like I was Phil Phillips level of like just like if he had believed really was selling like I was just panicked about it and so it's just funny like it just insert itself in really weird ways but like the latter end of like where it was most scary to me was like a totally self-discovered
[SPEAKER_07]: path into it like a rocky brand our weird last branch out of the tree of fundamentalism I fell out of Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of I just I feel like I talked for about an hour, but it was just it was it was it was it was a great story though because I think it's which one the of the five that I just like back to me when you're going through all of this it's so easy I think what stuck out to me most is at the guy that you were listening to where you were just like
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you know, like he was on assuming he was sharing, you know, maybe draw some, you know, sermons or whatever, but then you're hearing him tell this very animated story of something that's like pretty, that's shocking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and he's the kind of guy that would like believe you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, he's the kind of guy that like when he would preach about the crucifixion, which people probably start piecing the other time out, if they know the West Coast, well, that really gives him a way.
[SPEAKER_07]: This is something if people know where I grew up, and they know the people that would come through our, like the Capriestard, be say other.
[SPEAKER_07]: But he was really known for preaching on the crucifixion and giving like the medical breakdown and the Roman history and all that.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so like you're sitting there going like he's giving us the intellectual like like he knows.
[SPEAKER_07]: This is how Romans in this year would have crucified.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so then what you hear him with the same sincerity,
[SPEAKER_07]: whispering in the back of the story and telling you a scary story.
[SPEAKER_07]: You're like, oh, my gosh, like this is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, don't lie.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's how that's how I felt about Jim Jim Logan.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really felt exactly the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: He and he spoke with such passion and authority about everything and he was a really big guy like really tall and commanding, but also had a gentility about him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I look back at it now and I just kind of feel like he was just yet another one of these grifter people that, you know, unfortunately probably harmed a lot more people than he helped.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's really sad.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, let me ask you that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Did you mention the grift label a few times and I'm curious like, well, and I think it's a like, like, like,
[SPEAKER_07]: But I am curious, like, there are people where I think they, I always wrestle with, like, what did they believe and what did they not?
[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm like, like, reading his, like, reading Phil Phillips book, I was like, is very scared, man.
[SPEAKER_07]: Who wrote this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Man child.
[SPEAKER_07]: Or is this someone who saw like a general cultural sway?
[SPEAKER_07]: Because like one of one of the things that I've been like workshopping lately in terms of like things to say about fundamentalism is like for as much as they claim to be countercultural, they're always following the culture's lead in what to talk about.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so like it's very much a reaction of like, you know, like we're gonna talk about Satanic panic because on the news, there's been ritual slings of, you know, related to this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very reactionary, you're right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you think Phil Phillips reading his stuff?
[SPEAKER_07]: He was a reactionary type of fellow.
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you think he was lost in his own sauce?
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you think he, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_07]: I think, but I love the audience.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but I also, like, look, I know I can be very, just like, these grfters, you know, because at some point, you have to know you're grifting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_07]: If he did it when you started.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you didn't know in the beginning and you're writing book number fourteen you know you have a grift and you're you're looking and seeking for how much you can continue to sell books because that's your livelihood.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not I'm not hating on that but it just feels like after a while like you know come on how much can you really do here but when I when I read the very beginning of this sadly written book I feel bad for him.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, because he is also the son of evangelist.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's getting dragged around the country at a young age and he's trying to figure his life out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And obviously it made an impact on him because he puts it in the book.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, we're literally just talking about demonic toys, but he spends a lot of time
[SPEAKER_03]: talking about his upbringing and kind of how he was lost for a while.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it almost felt like he had a mini biography moment going on here that he wanted to be seen.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have, I have full compassion for something like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, plus you have an evangelist, a evangelist father.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know that dad was probably pressuring him to be in a be in a evangelist.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think when he tried, yeah, he tried a couple of different like ministries and they weren't, they just weren't working out for him and then he got his aha moment at the toy store.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can understand at a younger age where you, because I was that too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just grasping it anything to find validation in my purpose and existence on this planet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then if you're really in the sauce of your belief system, you're like, when is God gonna tell me what I'm supposed to do?
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, the parental pressure, the pressure of just everyone else within these churches, who's going well, you're the son of an evangelist.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I can only imagine what was going on for him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a sad, uh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: It was bears when you're like, I have to contort to fit into some form of the approved path.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and now in his new, newest book, I kind of went down the rabbit hole yesterday.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've just like reading some of the stuff on that website with ADD.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is, he is ADD.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm like, oh, that makes a little bit of sense away.
[SPEAKER_03]: The books are written.
[SPEAKER_03]: The way that it carries through.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just like, my God, it was he just diagnosed with this in the last few years.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's gone his whole adult life, not like a childhood and adult life, not even realizing maybe some of the things that he was struggling with.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I do have extreme compassion for people.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I get just so cynical with this stuff because it's so at this point,
[SPEAKER_03]: It should be cold out that this stuff was not okay regardless of where you were in your life.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like Josh Harris, where he's like, yeah, I'm just about to say that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kids dating a bi-fing, oops, you know, change my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, ruined everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to really course correct on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have a lot of respect for that, you know, because he's owning, you know, a place where he did think that he had the best and he had the best intentions, but it obviously didn't lead to the best outcomes.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's an interesting thing, at least, like, to go where does the griff stop and the true believer start and the, you know, and the reason, like, I'm always like second guessing is just like, I know how much I believe to things.
[SPEAKER_07]: So it's kind of like, because I think sometimes, like, especially now, I'm whatever almost a decade away from any form of that orbit.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I can find myself going like, they can believe that.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I start going like, what did you believe Eric in twenty, right?
[SPEAKER_07]: Whatever, twenty, thirteen, twenty, fourteen, even into twenty, seventeen, you had some really weird things that were really crazy.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, and it's like,
[SPEAKER_07]: That's the part where I go like, hmm, I wonder how much of this, you know, but like you said, the thing for me is like research and study on my own kind of eliminated those really silly things.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, it's so I always question when someone's like four decades in where I'm like, you read some books, you know, like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I received pushback, you received negativity.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot more information to be had in this world now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I just, I don't know, but you know, when you stay in these bubbles, when you stay in these trees, when you're reading books in the bubble that are.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all in the bubble.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're, you are validated within the bubble.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's all that matters.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not, you're not looking, this, this, this book was not meant for non-Christians.
[SPEAKER_03]: This book was sold within the bubble.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a conversion tool.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's like a reinforced pipe tool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a here's how to save your kids because you want them to be the godliest.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not going to take that down to the local YMCA and hand that to his parents.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: They'd laugh in your face.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_07]: I will say this is like such a cool thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: I can send you one of these actually.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I love the ex pearl and Maxine trilogy.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you've watched.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you like corn movies.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love horn movies, but I haven't seen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I haven't seen the most recent one though.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm curious to see what you think because you know we you know we love it because I was telling you about the substance we were talking about that whole thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, I love that movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_07]: someone's going to go watch it and be like, you can't believe you recommended this.
[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't recommend it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We weren't recommending it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were talking about it mutually.
[SPEAKER_07]: I recommend it to every buddy listening.
[SPEAKER_07]: No, I mean, I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Every email.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is terrifying.
[SPEAKER_03]: Have someone that you cares about you around.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you watch it and you're, you don't like scary movies, but I think everyone needs to watch that movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, I can't believe you're recommending blunt going cursing and noted.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, sometimes it's appropriate to get a message across Dennis Quades and played Regan latch on to that conservatives.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, there's something you totally just evaporated.
[SPEAKER_13]: That is so not the way to promote a movie.
[SPEAKER_13]: If you loved Reagan, the worst person on the planet of film.
[SPEAKER_07]: Just let people go and blind.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't look up anything about it.
[SPEAKER_07]: So anyway, so I love I love those movies and so Maxine is very heavily focused on like
[SPEAKER_07]: They all have that undertones, like the religious trauma undertones and all that, which was a pleasant surprise.
[SPEAKER_07]: When Maxine came out, a twenty four pen out these booklets called Not Today Satan and the director literally took like old articles and I'll send you and I've like four of these.
[SPEAKER_07]: I really want to see this, but um, but it has like
[SPEAKER_07]: Great examples of like the things people are worried about during that time.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's got like the proctor.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, like the computers are coming, you know, six, six, six.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I'll send you one of these because when you were like a thief in the darkness, this present is like a thief in the night and if footman tire you, what will horses do and that scared me, if I was going to do anything, it was the rapture left behind.
[SPEAKER_07]: like Procter and Gamble go with the.
[SPEAKER_03]: Procter and Gamble.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we were so anti-procter and Gamble in my family.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we would go, oh my God, the things we would do to avoid Procter and Gamble.
[SPEAKER_03]: So ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, so there's lots of like good little snippets and things.
[SPEAKER_07]: So, but it was so fun just reading through.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fabulous.
[SPEAKER_07]: When you read that, then you jump into the actual people writing about it.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a tripe trip.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, thank you for sharing that.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's a long first time guide to satanic cults.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are three general areas and levels of involvement in satanic occult worship.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first would be dabblers.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are people who just use it for fun and games may be involved in some video games in that kind of level, possibly a little graffiti, but reasonably innocent.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second level would be those that are involved for spiritual reasons, and they recognize that there's power in the worship of Satan.
[SPEAKER_00]: These people generally worship together and try to find the mystery of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the third level would be criminal involvement.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the area that interests us.
[SPEAKER_03]: You were talking to about fear earlier.
[SPEAKER_03]: I because we were homeschooled my parents had a lot of fear.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when we lived in certain states that were more
[SPEAKER_03]: um, democratic, or democratic, but um, or conservative or slipper at whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but they would get so worried about like my mom loved to get us out for, you know, little field trips, basically she wanted to go the craft store.
[SPEAKER_03]: But um, we'd go out to field trips and things like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we would have to tell them, you know, that we just, you know, either have a slip or something, or yeah, we're just, we're just taking, you know, a down day.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to be very careful of not saying like we are Christian homeschooled people and it was as this crazy fear that something was going to happen to nobody cares and I felt like so much anxiety but we would get asked like especially in the craft stores like how do you why aren't you in school and there's like we're gonna take my way from the fair it's like I was still afraid I was gonna get thrown into foster care
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just like, stay so close to my mom because I'm like, well, she can answer the questions as to why I'm not in school.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm like, we would get asked all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I was so scared of like the government, you know, not understanding a Christian family doing godly things.
[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to rip you out of the home and have you fostered by gay parents.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have had a much better childhood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wish that it happened.
[SPEAKER_07]: Wouldn't be in a documentary probably.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just the fear of the government fear of like being out in public on a school day, you know, because we would constantly get asked like, honey, why are you in school?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, because we're on a field trip to the craft store, like to the Fapto to cloth world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really weird of the street there, honey.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, that was it again, that was this stuff like like it was like the unrealistic realistic fears of like of, you know, because I remember certain people would be like, you know, make sure if you're telling your doctor, you spank, you know, it's the right, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_07]: Like don't tell the wrong people that you spank or don't like that's the stuff that was always scared of me is like
[SPEAKER_07]: Don't take me away from like the parents.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like the parents understood what was a true threat or not, I believe.
[SPEAKER_03]: to a point maybe to a point because like if that's really that why she take us to cloud world all the time you know like or why we out in public if you were so afraid of this but you know what you tell me one time and now I think forever I'm gonna get stolen by the government yeah I'm kind of like that's a good question and it's no no I've always wondered where's the disconnect where's the you told me something of a child I absorbed it I believe it fully yeah and I were just like that's no big deal I'm gonna go over here to hobby lobby and I just like
[SPEAKER_07]: I feel like the title, I feel like the title is absurd.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's just fundamentalism scared the hell out of me.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_07]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_07]: I didn't expect to branch as much as until our paranoia is connected to that church, but.
[SPEAKER_03]: But thank you, Phil, for starting it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you, Phil.
[SPEAKER_07]: We, we let you in the dust ages ago.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,
[SPEAKER_07]: I can talk about things, but like, sometimes I'll say stuff on the podcast, like my mom's listening right now.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, not right now, but.
[SPEAKER_07]: Hi, Eric's mom.
[SPEAKER_07]: She's over there.
[SPEAKER_07]: Come on out.
[SPEAKER_07]: But, but as people are listening, she's one of those people.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I know that she'll like message me and be like, we didn't care about X or she'll be like, oh, I can't believe you don't remember.
[SPEAKER_07]: We used to be strict about this, you know?
[SPEAKER_07]: And so like, it's always weird.
[SPEAKER_07]: These were things, but like, that's the funny thing now is like, I'm constantly,
[SPEAKER_07]: We don't talk often about this stuff now because I don't really care.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going to hold court with my parents all the time.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_08]: What did you do this for?
[SPEAKER_07]: Because they're really amazing parents because you listen.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll say that.
[SPEAKER_07]: But it's like, but it's like stuff where I'll mention something that was a huge deal to me and my mind growing up and it'd be like, we didn't care about that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Or I'll say like the reason why we did something.
[SPEAKER_07]: And like in
[SPEAKER_07]: It's interesting to recognize that stuff is like that was a huge deal at youth conferences that they didn't hear in a church.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then the reason that we heard in like Sunday school was different, you know, like like we weren't allowed to watch SpongeBob.
[SPEAKER_07]: But my parents never said why, but like one of the people who taught one of our social classes told us that the creator of SpongeBob was gay and he wanted to create the cartoon for gay men and that the cartoon was ended up getting sold to a kid's network to try to make more kids gay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like the tangled web of internet.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so it's like stuff like that where I'm like, I'd be like, there's a big, long list of stuff where I'm like, I'm curious of my parents thought that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Something luckily, I never watched SpongeBob and so I am a heterosexual, just for anybody who's very dodged to bull it.
[SPEAKER_07]: This case someone's not going to take as a joke.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but I'm joking.
[SPEAKER_07]: I wish I had I it bothers me every day.
[SPEAKER_07]: I didn't watch it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I wish that the government had taken me away and given me a parent.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would have been much happier childhood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, genuinely, but I it for someone to say, I'm so glad that your parents are so open to having conversations with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: and that you can have that dialogue because it's something I'm denied to be able to say like hey this is what I remember and this is what you guys are doing back back then with the toys but like did you really believe it because I feel like in a weird way if they were like well for a time yeah or not really but then yes it just is more information for my child healing brain yeah to go okay little eight-year-old Lindsey your parents were
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they got lost in the sauce for a while, but do they believe it now?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was just like a radical time in their lives.
[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, you were collateral damage to their belief system, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: It would be nice to have those dialogues.
[SPEAKER_07]: Or even to know, like, yeah, we still do, or we do, you know, or whatever.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, forgive me if you've shed this before, but are they
[SPEAKER_07]: Are you your no contact?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm no contact.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I want no contact with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Actually, before the documentary, I write around my time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I about four months prior, I wrote them victim impact statements individually and read it to them and told them a lot of things that they had never heard before.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, so I'm no contact with both one of them by my choice at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other one has never reached back.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of like a, yeah, but it's, it's, it's one of those things where I'd be like, but it's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: It isn't okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm, I'm actually the better for it because I had a lot of investment from one parent and then I had a lot of actuals.
[SPEAKER_03]: It kind of experienced Stockholm syndrome when I decided that I wasn't going to communicate with them anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I realized just how like how locked I was in needing to like make them happy and proud and all this all this over trying that I've been doing for twenty five years of my adult life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now it's been what two years now two and a half years and I just feel like so released from all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was actually the healthiest thing that I could have done for myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, so there's a mean I don't I know for you know having a parent that I could like talk to and be like a way for the money issues one of the things were like is it better to not have a direct relationship?
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, but obviously the ideal is to have a good relationship with absolutely
[SPEAKER_07]: normal situation.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_07]: Like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been open people because at this point, yeah, they're parents, but I've kind of revoked their relationships status.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they are their first names and they are human beings on this planet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I love all human beings on the planet.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I have to identify the fact that I can't call you parents anymore because you didn't show up how you needed to.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I do put the ownership on them for that and the responsibility.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm also not like you said earlier, I'm not trying to hold court.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's just more like, I just want you to better yourself so that we can actually have these conversations and like get to a point of like super healing with each other and get to a point where like you even are with your parents where it's like, hey, yeah, we didn't really feel that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, we really, we really talked about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think it's healing to have that to a dialogue.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's a great way to put it like the two way because that's that's why I feel like there's there's been periods of like major resentment about certain things.
[SPEAKER_07]: I've always I've always Well, not always I would say like like I never had like the I'm going to my room and slam the door like I feel like it was always Good except for like when it came to talking about like
[SPEAKER_07]: abuse and deeper issues in the church when I was in high school, that's when it was like really went off the rails in a couple places, but and then it was like, well, why did we stay in this and why do we, you know, like all those questions you wrestle with, but like I do like that there's a level of like
[SPEAKER_07]: Hey, I think this is what happened.
[SPEAKER_07]: Is that, you know, and being able to at least get the answer, we're like, even to this day, there's certain answers.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm like, that's not a good reason for X-wise.
[SPEAKER_12]: I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_07]: But at least I know that's the reason instead of driving myself crazy, like, what was the reason for what was the thing?
[SPEAKER_07]: And then some things were, there's still some things where I'll be like, come on, what's the real thing?
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, like, my dad said that about something recently about,
[SPEAKER_07]: music or something.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's like, I never really cared about it, but you know, the church did so like we just kind of aligned with the church.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Then I was like, but you told me things privately about music that concerns you.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I know you thought something.
[SPEAKER_07]: What was that, you know, and it's yeah, I don't remember.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's like, okay, sure, dad, you know, like, you don't understand.
[SPEAKER_03]: It honestly, it has honestly got to be so scary to be a parent because children are sponges beyond your wildest imagination.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have children, but even like the God kids I have and even from from when we were children, I remember how much I remember.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean like you're saying like these little nuances of like, yeah, but dad, you said this in private or this was happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have role indexes like filing cabinets of memories and it's, you know, I realize it not every memory is probably accurate because as we get older, you know, things get a little, you know, they kind of distort a little bit, but still it's like
[SPEAKER_03]: to be a parent knowing that your kid is absorbing everything you'll never remember.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they have the spots to solve puzzle pieces that are like, yes, and they're going to have their filing cabinets.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, I just like, oh my god, I thought I will have a podcast about her liberal, you know, anti, whatever, damn.
[SPEAKER_07]: No, like, like, yeah, there's, there's that level where like,
[SPEAKER_07]: No, but how much you try to be a great parent.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: You're gonna mess up at certain things.
[SPEAKER_07]: But like it's, I think that's kind of the thing now is I'm just like, if I have one goal as a parent, it's just to make it, I've told my wife this a billion times is like, I just never want there to be a thing that she can't later come to me and say, what about this?
[SPEAKER_07]: Or, hey, this thing, you know, because like,
[SPEAKER_07]: There's kids in therapy because their parents were too present for them.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, there'd be his parents were absent and there's parents, there's kids in therapy whose parents were too nice and their parents were too.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yours will be in therapy because you have a podcast.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, my dad had a podcast and now I have to listen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just couldn't, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those comic books.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, to me, to me, I think it's most about transparency and honesty as a parent to a child.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, hey, I kind of messed up there and also just the child knowing that they can trust the parent at any time with anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not what is mine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but when he got shot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like when they muck up, okay, you mucked up, but we're gonna figure it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's not the end of the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: We all make mistakes.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I just think that that compassion and transparency to as much as a parent can, obviously, certain situations.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I just think like that instills so much grounding and foundation for a child to know that that person will always catch them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just know that's what I wish I'd had.
[SPEAKER_03]: Me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, on that note.
[SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for listening everybody to the preacher boys, but I'm cutting out just kidding.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, sorry to bring it down real low there.
[SPEAKER_07]: So we started this episode, you know, talking about Phil Phillips and turmoil in the toy box.
[SPEAKER_07]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, look, we could spend, I'll probably add some things on my intro as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like the book is chapter of chapter of the same old, like everything scary and you should be afraid.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like that's the summary of every single chapter.
[SPEAKER_07]: which I think it's only natural that we've led into just discussions of things that scared the heck out of us in fundamentalism.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, so I want to end on like I somewhat like we've both got our trauma dumping in a little bit.
[SPEAKER_07]: We've both got to talk about our fears, the things that scare us, the things that are still haunt us to this day.
[SPEAKER_07]: I want to end on a slightly positive note with a pitch I have for a movie and if Pixar's listening because I know they are obviously the pre-Joyce podcast.
[SPEAKER_07]: I have a pitch for a new choice for another.
[SPEAKER_07]: We bring Sid back.
[SPEAKER_07]: Sid grows up, he's haunted by what the toys did to him.
[SPEAKER_07]: And he becomes a televangelist, warning America about the occult dangers of these toys that come to life.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think there's something there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like literally bow, peep and woody.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're so imbibed by demons.
[SPEAKER_07]: Just traumatized.
[SPEAKER_07]: The first thing I will say, the first time I ever understood
[SPEAKER_07]: the first time I ever understood the dirtiest joke in Toy Story was at Christian summer camp.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I just jumped over my pitch, said way into this, but I was at Camp Kobayak in Michigan and I was the third grade or fourth grade.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, fourth grade.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think whatever grade I was.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was in Camp Kobayak in Michigan.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a matter.
[SPEAKER_02]: You were at the camp.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was at Camp Kobayak in Michigan at an undetermined age, but I will not look up, take them to look up.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it was raining one day.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so instead of game time, we did a movie in the auditorium, and they showed Toy Story.
[SPEAKER_07]: And the scene where Buzz, I think he sees both people.
[SPEAKER_07]: And his wings shoot out.
[SPEAKER_07]: And everybody, every boy in camp started busting up laughing, and then I'll turn it, and I was saying they're going.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so I'll always be thankful that I learned that at a Christian summer camp.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, what do you think of that?
[SPEAKER_07]: That's a good pet, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it, but I also feel like, yeah, I don't know if I want to watch the evangelist part.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to watch the journey a little bit.
[SPEAKER_07]: Sid being a televangelist, like actually I see Sid more of like an AFB fella, like a Steven Anderson.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can see that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Warning about toys, but anyway, that was, that was something I came to me when I was writing my notes.
[SPEAKER_07]: So,
[SPEAKER_07]: Take it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anybody that wants the idea, go ahead and have at it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe, maybe Phil Phillips will get into film.
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think Phil Phillips has podcasts?
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you see, I think I could picture him listening to this.
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you think he would?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you think he's listening right now?
[SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if he Googles himself every day.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll bet he Googles himself every day.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I Google myself this sometimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, you don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, I can see why he would actually because of the platform you have.
[SPEAKER_07]: I usually go to air.
[SPEAKER_07]: I usually just type in Eric's presence gear preacher boys and there's go recent is to see if it picks up any insurance.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, true.
[SPEAKER_03]: True.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're always getting determined.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that's fair.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going like, you know, fabulous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love you're riling up pastors.
[SPEAKER_07]: I never really good people images though.
[SPEAKER_07]: This is quick answers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_07]: Spider-Man sweater.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I did it in my work.
[SPEAKER_03]: You just, like, you'll see if you put in my own name and make up.
[SPEAKER_03]: You'll see, like, some of the work I've done, although it's not as recent, so it probably isn't as flooded as it used to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I was in New York, there was a lot that would come up.
[SPEAKER_07]: You're a senator in Pennsylvania.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I used to be a pastor and work on star.
[SPEAKER_07]: Good work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_07]: Which one pays the most?
[SPEAKER_07]: Pastor.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry to latter.
[SPEAKER_07]: One is caught with the other.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, we're so off the rules.
[SPEAKER_03]: We kind of are.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's been so fabulous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I always love talking to you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Any an enclosing thoughts for anybody listening.
[SPEAKER_07]: Um, any final thoughts on the book, anything we didn't cover that you wish we had.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, I think the book, I will probably at some point do a few more videos.
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually, with TikTok, I really wanted to do videos where I would show like the commercial for the cartoon and a clip of the toy, and then talk about Phil's paranoia about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I am not a good editor.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not good at doing all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like really I give very aggravated with my perfectionism.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I kind of just halt in the middle.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, I can't do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but that was kind of my thought process with like each toy and just kind of like go through and just play with it, you know, but I think for turmoil and the toy box, I feel like it's meant more for.
[SPEAKER_03]: How can we hold these?
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to show it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Link in bio.
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you see a fillet link?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, go buy and burn.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am good at it.
[SPEAKER_07]: I am linking to this in the show notes and a small percentage will go to me if you purchase a copy through Amazon.
[SPEAKER_07]: So you will not be supporting Phil Phillips, but you will be supporting Jeff Bezos and his empire.
[SPEAKER_07]: But you'll also will be giving like ten cents to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like four.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was as a forty two.
[SPEAKER_07]: But the ten cents adds up.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, sir, we're using toys in the toilet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hundreds of thousands of copies sold.
[SPEAKER_07]: And one more thing to the preacher.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the dollar is for the end of the year.
[SPEAKER_07]: Ten cents on a hundred fifty thousand copies would you kill?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I dig it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, I think this is such an old book, but it's philosophies and thoughts literally have entrenched in Christian culture.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just wish that Christians very specifically all the Christians would start asking questions and looking at these things and asking questions about the people that write these materials.
[SPEAKER_03]: Any materials?
[SPEAKER_03]: What is their background?
[SPEAKER_03]: Are they just a pastor?
[SPEAKER_03]: with some experience, you know, some just like real world or church experience, or are they coming from a place of education and knowledge where they can actually show peer reviewed, you know, documentation and things like that that that
[SPEAKER_03]: I know Christians live in a lot of fear, but that fear is keeping you from living in full freedom of information and about understanding.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you don't open yourself up to the one side of the conversation and the opposite side of the conversation,
[SPEAKER_03]: You only stay over here and I'm telling you more often than not more harm is done when you don't at least ask a few questions about the material that you absorb.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's just really all I got to say about that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and more often than not, the truth is somewhere in the middle about a lot of different topics.
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe not relating to human being a portal to a demonic world, but a lot of these subjects like, I think about this in terms of politics a lot, like it's just like,
[SPEAKER_07]: You can listen to both.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sides.
[SPEAKER_07]: And there's probably a middle area somewhere that's probably the truth, but like if you only listen to one side or the other, you're just going to get further entrenched into whatever that is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And go with facts.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like actually find actual facts about things because everything that Phil Phillips is saying is not based in fact.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's based in suspicion and assumption.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and come for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think this and now I see something scary and it confronts the correlated.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can correlate it to scripture and I believe this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Therefore, it is so, it's just not.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, one more little sidebar of a story.
[SPEAKER_03]: My parents, we got to a point where we were burning toys.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I would have to take my toy out back and put it in a fire.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm a child.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a very strange thing to make your child do in the name of being a god kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is traumatizing in ways that a child doesn't really, they can't figure out what it's all about, but you're just like, well, I did it for God, and later on in your adult life, you're like, what is this weird, why do I have this thought process all the time about x, y, or z, and then you're in therapy and your forties going,
[SPEAKER_03]: You're just like, no, I make sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe don't traumatize your kids.
[SPEAKER_07]: Great advice.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: Don't traumatize your kids.
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you so much for listening.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Try harder.
[SPEAKER_07]: Try harder.
[SPEAKER_07]: Be a good parent and make sure you buy a copy of turmoil in the toy box.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Eric.