[SPEAKER_05]: Coming up on episode four hundred and fourteen of wheel bearings.
[SPEAKER_05]: We got the Toyota to come a trail hundred the Subaru Forced or Hybrid Nissan KX Ford Expedition Ford's new thirty thousand dollar electric pickup truck curated by Cadillac Hyundai's new ionic two and a whole bunch of interesting stuff from Monterey car week all that and more coming up next.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is episode four, four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and four, and
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so a few weeks back, I had the Nissan Kicks.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the Nissan Kicks is all new this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like all new.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're the big conversation at another event about all new versus refreshed.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is officially all new.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Kicks, I think of it as an entry level crossover.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like some people love this and some people hate this, but again, it's another case of if you want to buy an eighty thousand dollar car that has all of that, this is not that car.
[SPEAKER_02]: This car starts at twenty.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the other one you're going to write.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the other one.
[SPEAKER_02]: This car, so the S trim, which is front wheel drive, starts at twenty one eight thirty.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's cheap.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like really cheap for a car.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not like it's fancy, but it's a solid little car for a twenty one eight thirty.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think this is a good value.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just have to not be looking for fancy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a great starter car.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you just want a nice affordable car to get around.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had the SR with all wheel drive, which is the top trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is available in front wheel are all wheel with all wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Twenty seven thousand six hundred eighty dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: And would you like to catch a destination, although you're going to win no matter what.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to say fourteen hundred dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: You were so stinking close thirteen ninety.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're right on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So power for this two-liter four-cylinder CVT, a hundred and forty-one horsepower, a hundred and forty pound feet of torque.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is not a race car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is not super fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: So where people start to say like,
[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't great.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's because when you mash the gas, let me just say that number again, one forty one horsepower, one hundred and forty pound feet of torque.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the most responsive car.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not to say it's sluggish.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just doesn't have a huge amount of pap.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're trying to get extra oomph for passing on the highway is a little tricky.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you're just trying to get up to highway speed, plan accordingly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't cut off that eighteen wheeler.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let him go, merge behind.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's genuinely a wise piece of advice anytime, no matter what you're driving.
[SPEAKER_02]: Try to run out the AT wheel, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, but I feel like, you know, because I hear a lot of people, like when I said I was driving this, it's like, oh, you got the kicks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I don't need this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it looks cute too.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has some personality to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I appreciate that, you know, it's a tiny little affordable car that still looks cute.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can get it like in a two tone, like there's one that we're like the body of the car, sort of the start gray and there's a red roof.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have, it doesn't look dull and boring and cheap.
[SPEAKER_02]: It actually has a lot of personality.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now it has all-wheel drive, which is something that it didn't have before.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, my daughter ended up buying a couple years ago and Nissan Rogue Sport.
[SPEAKER_02]: When the Rogue Sport was still out there, the reason she didn't look at the kicks, there was no all-wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was in Milwaukee.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the roads in downtown Milwaukee are mess in the winter.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think no, I think you need all-wheel drive on their hand.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's literally what crosses off the list.
[SPEAKER_02]: If this had been available then,
[SPEAKER_02]: She might have gotten this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, overall I like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it has a decent number of features.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not one of those tons and tons of features kind of thing, but like you have a twelve point three inch touchscreen, decent size touchscreen.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto on the SR trim the top trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: You get a six-speakers audio system that's standard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, you get a nicer one on the top trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a ten-speaker Bose audio system.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple of USB-C ports upfront.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a wireless charging pad.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not really a tower.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it doesn't even.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, with that kind of tower, you're not going to be able to tone anything with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you have a decent little amount of cargo space.
[SPEAKER_02]: So behind the second row, the little bit numbers drop a little with all-wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's thirty cubic feet behind the second row.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you fold those black, you get sixty cubic feet.
[SPEAKER_02]: They drop to twenty, three, nine, and fifty point one with all-wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's still a decent amount of cargo room for a little car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I kept thinking about again, my daughter, when she was in college having to haul stuff back and forth from a dorm to an apartment and then home for, you know, the summer and stuff, this is great for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like just enough cargo room for that period of time in your life where you feel like you're constantly moving from one place to another.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it does what it does.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I like
[SPEAKER_02]: the kicks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, it's, you know, modest performance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the smoothest suspension system.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you hit, if you're on really pebbled roads, you're going to know it.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you, if you nail a pothole, you are going to know it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But overall, I feel like for the value with the style and the technology and what it offers.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the new kicks is better than the old kicks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's noticeably better.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always liked this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though it's not a really performance oriented car, I love this as a first car.
[SPEAKER_02]: or like a college kid car or star car, I think it's fabulous.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, the kicks, you know, for those of us in our community that are constantly driving new stuff all the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, the kicks, cars like the kicks, the, you know, Mitsubishi Mirage, the Versa
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they get a lot of criticism, you know, because we get to drive a lot of much cooler or faster, in some cases, more attractive cars.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the reality is, you know, there's a lot of people that arguably most people cannot afford those cars.
[SPEAKER_05]: people need you know there's a lot of people that need basic reliable transportation that they are going to you know they they want to get they want to get something new that's got a warranty you know that's got the latest safety features they they need basic transportation that don't need you know they're they're not taken it to the drag strip on Friday nights you know might be fun to see
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I guess.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they need something that's going to get them to work or to school or, you know, even, you know, a young family, you know, with their first child, you know, to harm to daycare or to the doctor's office.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, so they need something that is affordable and reliable gets decent fuel economy and
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, the kicks will address a little hit all those points, you know, and if you get anything but the base model, it's got Google services built in.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you've got navigation and everything, but even on the base model, you've got CarPlay and Android Auto support.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you can plug your phone in.
[SPEAKER_05]: It does what it needs to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it does it pretty well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it does and I think you know what in general like I mean Nissan we're all concerned about Nissan for good reasons for good reasons like the the function of the company and how they're gonna do but and and people seem to be giving me some a lot of
[SPEAKER_02]: these days and the thing is it's not the most inspired car but they they're really good at building the car to do what it's supposed to do for that segment like you know they're they're a little truck is great for a little off road truck they're little SUVs are great as it'll start a car's they're like you get something to the marano it's just this nice pretty
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, nice to drive car that looks good.
[SPEAKER_02]: It isn't super obscure.
[SPEAKER_02]: It still looks really nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do a good job of creating a car for a very specific sort of use case and nailing that use case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Problem is if you're outside of that, if you're looking for something more, you know, the case, if you're just looking for affordable, well, they've got it, but it's going to, you know, there's things that make it affordable like a smaller engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the kicks, I also like the Versa.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I like really hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, I do too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the Versa is a great little car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, and people hate that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh god, I have a Versa.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, well, but at like you said Sam, we get sort of jaded.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of us, because we do have the opportunity to drive such a wide range of cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: And some, you know, oftentimes when we get them,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a nice card.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also the top trim of that nice car.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like the fanciest version of whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we very rarely see a base model of a car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think unless we're renting cars for some reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know, it's almost like a check yourself on the behalf of journalists like, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know you're in a Mercedes last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not a Mercedes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't have those features, but you could buy three of these or one Mercedes, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm a big fan of the kicks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like it like all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always leaked it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you mentioned that we're often in the top trims of a car, the SR, the top trim of the kicks.
[SPEAKER_05]: Arguably if someone was thinking about a kicks, I would probably recommend to them that they go for the SV, the middle trim.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because on that, you can still get the cool two-tone paint colors.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can get the base one, a couple of them, a couple of combinations.
[SPEAKER_05]: the gray with the black roof are only a three hundred fifty dollar option or the gray with the red roof same thing two and three hundred fifty bucks if you want the red main body with the black roof that's eight hundred bucks you know there's a bunch of different combinations so you can have some fun with it it's you know the the SV you know you'd I think there's a there's a couple of options that are missing that are standard on the SR
[SPEAKER_05]: But the big reason I would actually recommend the SV instead is you mentioned, you know, the rough pavement.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, certainly here in Michigan where I live, you know, a couple years ago, I had a Versa SV or an SR that had the seventeen inch wheels with the fifty series tires, not much sidewall.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I had a tire blow out on a pot hole.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you've got basically the same size tires on the kicks SR.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you go with the SV, you get, I think it's a sixteen inch wheel with tires with a little more sidewalk, a little more compliance.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, if you're thinking about, you know, basic transportation.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you look at your total cost of ownership, what am I going to be spending?
[SPEAKER_05]: Not just on the car, but on maintenance.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to perhaps minimize your chances of having to spend money on new tires long before your tires are actually worn out, you might want to go with the SV instead.
[SPEAKER_05]: It'll be a little slightly more comfortable ride, but the tires will probably be a little more durable on rough pavement.
[SPEAKER_05]: Things like that are things to consider.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and also when I misspoke the the twelve point three in screen, you can get on the SV and SR that's a seven inch screen on the base trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's another, you know, you get, so you also get a slightly more tech looking dashboard.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, it's on the SV.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's as high as you have to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can get all will drive on any trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's, you know, I think recommending the middle trim a lot of times that's the sweet spot in any lineup.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, almost always.
[SPEAKER_02]: Almost always like the base trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's something you really want on that car that's missing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's like, oh, I really want this, but you have to go one trim to get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you go to the top, it's like, well, now I've spent ten thousand dollars outside my budget.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you go in the middle, you get the things that are sort of like the must have for whatever your shopping needs are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then a few little like, oh, well, I don't really need that, but that's cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll take it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like the middle is the sweet spot in most OEM's lineups.
[SPEAKER_05]: And one other thing, you know, on the kicks, one of the colors that they offer, if you don't want the two tone is a deep blue pearl, which, you know, so it's pretty, I didn't see it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a really attractive color.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm going deep blue pearl meets the, you can get the deep blue pearl with a two tone as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the deep blue pearl lower body with a gray roof.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see it, I see it in the two tone.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it's to come up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that looks like I love the two-tone roof.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Makes it tiny little affordable car.
[SPEAKER_05]: It looks a little more interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it smellsy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that blue color actually is beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the blue.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the Nissan Kicks.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what was the slightly more expensive car that you had or bigger ever so slightly more expensive car.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so psyched I got these back to back last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember I had a Lincoln navigator.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have its down market brother.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think only because Lincoln's a fancier brand.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have the Ford X bit of mainstream.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mainstream.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have the Ford Expedition King Ranch.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can I just see the King Ranch.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always think of it as the week.
[SPEAKER_02]: In addition, because it has little flying W thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not mine, but I'm Link.
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't bought seeds yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have a W on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I've tried these custom custom built for right I these custom built with a W so yeah, so I had the King Ranch I do love that it doesn't make it feel very cowboy it has a cowboy vibe going on with that, but it's called the King Ranch What else do you expect it's got a little cowboy thing going on so this is huge and it is pricing want to start just go off with what do you think destination is on this?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, full size SUV.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess it's got to be at least nineteen ninety five but I think they might have lifted it to twenty one ninety five.
[SPEAKER_05]: nineteen ninety five is what i have come up on mine so you're you were right with your first guess i think did it go up might have increased since you uh... since i wrote it and so since the one you have was built uh... yeah you see we get things in the the i mean they can change anything any time and let it we're still in the same one running for the car they did that it's twenty one ninety five now because last week when we were when we're talking about the navigator i looked it up afterwards because
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is one of the things we talked about this last week, you know, Ford, you know, with all the tariff stuff, you know, Ford's been trying to hold the line on pricing and, you know, offering employee pricing on some models and things like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Great for their advertising, but, you know, they, what they did was they snuck in a hidden two hundred dollar price increase through the destination charge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sam and I have destination charge issues, just putting the price look hardening it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, and again, I will applaud General Motors for the last, I don't know, four or five years at least, you know, when you look at their advertising or, you know, at their consumer site, the price that you see on there.
[SPEAKER_05]: includes the destination charge.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they actually include that because it's not something you can avoid.
[SPEAKER_05]: Automakers, please.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you need to itemize it on them in Roney for legal reasons, go ahead and do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But do not advertise a price.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do not talk about a price that does not include a factor that consumers cannot avoid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, you can't say, it's not like you can say, I don't want the carpet of formats, take them out and give me seventy five bucks back.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't remove this.
[SPEAKER_02]: This notion fee is stuck there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are paying it no matter what.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you should see that upfront, especially since it's not a two hundred dollar charge, it's like in this case two thousand dollars, that's a significant jump in the cost of your vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I feel like it should just be included.
[SPEAKER_05]: So how does the expedition compare to the navigator?
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was really neat.
[SPEAKER_02]: So expedition king ranch this is the top of the lineup and it starts at eighty three nine seven five.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not cheap the base trim in the lineup though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Starts at my computer stock.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to tell me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's at about fifty two sixty two sixty two.
[SPEAKER_05]: They's priced for the net for the expedition.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got sixty two.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me find a screen is being cranky as I was scrolling across.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, sixty two three twenty.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's for the active term for the active.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's active platinum tremor and King Ranch and there are two different
[SPEAKER_02]: Power trains available, but not all them are available on every car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Say when I were just running through it, the expedition has, the tremor has a more powerful engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: The platinum offers the more powerful engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: The King Ranch only comes with the base engine, which is still plenty of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a three point five liter twin turbo V-six.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has four hundred horsepower and four hundred and eighty pound feet of torque.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's burly.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you got one of the trims with the other power train, it's four hundred and forty horsepower and five hundred and ten pound feet of torque.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a little bit of a jump.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's still the same engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a higher up plate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I shouldn't say it's a different engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a high output version of the same engine.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you get a little more oomph from it.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want a little more oomph, I feel like this has plenty of oomph though.
[SPEAKER_02]: It definitely doesn't feel underpowered.
[SPEAKER_02]: You smashed the gas pedal and the sucker moves despite being really big.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, noted last week that the retracting side step things in the navigator made it sound like you ran over something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please, excuse me, these are quieter.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why, but there's things I noticed because I just got out of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like open the door shut the door.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, that's quite open the door shut the door again.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it is quieter because I was super aware of it every single time they retracted when I was in the navigator.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot about it in the expedition.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if the on the navigator that you had, perhaps they had been damaged at some point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like maybe, you know, it ran into a curb or something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but it was noticeable.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought, gosh, this really is quieter.
[SPEAKER_02]: weird thing, but there you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the all the bells and whistles version of this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what do you?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got blue crews.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got, it's like pretty much every feature you could want.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can haul, manage a ton of cargo.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can tow up to, I think it's six thousand with the, you can either do four by four or four by two.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's up to nine, these six hundred pounds.
[SPEAKER_02]: With this engine, it's a little less if you have the eye-eye output, it drops to nine thousand.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you get a little bit less.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cargo room is ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_02]: Behind the third row, twenty-two point nine, behind the first row, it's a hundred and eight point five.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you fold all the seats down, you can pretty much put your living room back there and you can furniture someone else's house.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's big.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also very comfortable.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is the kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: I said anybody can buy any car but this feels like the car you want to get if you have at least three kids because you're going to be using the third row and you want the extra seating and you need the extra space and the family goes on vacation just to have normal and so cargo you've got a lot of suitcases or if you like to road trip it is so super roomy it's very very comfortable I enjoyed driving this and it you know it feels it's not as
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, smooth, I would say is the navigator, the navigator has that luxury car like, easiness to it, sort of softness to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a little bit more grunt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm a comfy car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get all your features, but I got some power to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I enjoyed driving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I even took it into the city.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was driving around Boston.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's, I must have been interesting with something this enormous.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is kind of a test to how easy it is because you always feel like you don't have enough room because it's so wide but it handles well in a city which sounds silly but like you know when you have to make that really tight turn because it handles those turns pretty well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's surprisingly easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: She driving can just in city streets and even wedge myself into the world's tiniest parking spot.
[SPEAKER_02]: at the parking garage this week because it was all that was left and it's like, oh, can I do it?
[SPEAKER_02]: And even then it was easy to maneuver.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I didn't have to do that back up back in like ten times to get it lined up.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like one good try and I was lined up and back right into the spot.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I like this overall.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a top trim of a three row SUV.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to be cheap.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I think it's worth it for like for that eighty three nine seven five?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, actually I would if I was looking for that if I wanted that kind of style because you're paying a lot for the style.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't want that whole king ranch thing, you can get like a more refined style.
[SPEAKER_02]: if you want to go with platinum and for tremor because it's more the off-road one and that gets the high output engine you get with that then you also get like orange accents and things so there's a very with these trims there's very much a style difference there's the base trim there's a platinum for the fancy the tremor for the off-road the King Ranch for I think I'm a cowboy so if you want to be a cowboy
[SPEAKER_02]: get the King Ranch.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, in your price, between like the base is definitely cheaper at sixty-two, but when you start getting up they're like the tremor and the King Ranch are only like two thousand twenty-five hundred dollars apart.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's very much like are you looking for the cowboy thing or you're looking for the off-road thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So overall I like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the expedition is a good car.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think you overlooked one little detail that makes this the obvious choice over the new navigator.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, I haven't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll say I know what it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can reach out and I can adjust the air vents.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just put my hands straight out in front of me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I grabbed a little thing up, down, left, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is the single biggest selling feature over the navigator.
[SPEAKER_02]: You cannot adjust the air vents with your hands.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just reach the vent.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So one of the things on the new expedition is they use the same displays that they use on the navigator, except that for the display up by the windshield, that the upper display.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you get the center touchscreen, and then instead of the coast to coast set up, they have an navigator, you only get the left hand side of it, because the navigator display is actually two separate displays side by side.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so the expedition only gets half of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: They get the left hand half of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: How was that driving that?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it works fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny, you know, because the steering wheel is also very similar.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the way the touchpad controls work to move things around.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like, here's the thing, I feel like the navigator being the fancier car, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Having that very large screen because those large screens, let's face it, they make things feel a little more upscale, a little fancier.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it works in the navigator.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like for the expedition, you could do this in this, but I like this too.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a matter of, like it doesn't feel downmarket, it doesn't feel like a step back or it's not as advanced.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think because it has the screen that you do have is still wide, like it goes,
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's twenty four inches.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's still, it's big enough that it actually, as it's way back on the dash, it goes, it's behind the infotainment screen to a point like it's setbacks, you can clearly see it, but it's still very large and then you have a large infotainment screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't feel like they've skimmed and you have a tiny little screen up there and then this, you know, so it doesn't feel, it's just a different style and I like how it looks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm fine with it either way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a preference, which one do you like better Sam?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, given how they're using the right half of the screen and the link ends, which is basically you get to pick up to three widgets to throw on there.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would just assume just like just leave it off because it's not it's not really very useful at least as it's being used today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's it's kind of, you know, okay, you're adding extra cost.
[SPEAKER_05]: You've got more components there.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would say, you know, the the forward approach, you know, just use what use what you're actually using instead of, you know, just having something that's kind of vestigial out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of like the Lincoln does the big screen because it looks cool and fancy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Ford's like, well, we're just giving it like you said, we're just going to do what makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what you do.
[SPEAKER_02]: This makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't have a problem with this at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So one thing that kind of surprised still that Ford hasn't done on their full size SUVs on the navigator and on the expedition.
[SPEAKER_05]: is offer the power boost hybrid system from the f-on-fifty.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because one of the nice things you get with that is the pro power on board, we can get up to seven point two kilowatts of power.
[SPEAKER_05]: which, you know, obviously, you know, I think you're not going to have contractors using this using the SUVs the way they do with the pickup trucks.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think especially in the tremor, the tremor in particular, you know, this is the off-road one, you know, if you're going out to a campsite, you know, and you want some extra power for your, you know, to power your coffee maker or your blender for your morning smoothies, you know, things like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: having that propower on board would be would be really useful or at tailgate parties in the fall.
[SPEAKER_05]: It seems like an obvious one that for probably should be offering in this vehicle, but so far they've chosen not to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is kind of weird, you're absolutely right and everything you said.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if there's a, there must be a reason that we don't know why they would choose not to do that because it does seem like it would be a great idea, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: It does have a cool, but you know what it does has.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: They has this like cargo tailgate manager thing that makes you cargo area where it becomes like a table or a seat back or like makes two levels of storage.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they did think of some kind of nifty factors.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the expedition does have the same split tailgate system that they put on the navigator this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you get that I love split tail.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's because then your milk doesn't roll out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not that that's ever happened to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but well, I, I will be, I will step up and acknowledge that yes, stuff has rolled out of vehicles on me.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have dropped things out of a tailgate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a tailgate on your vehicle at some point, you're dropping something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I also have two cars to talk about, well, two vehicles to talk about.
[SPEAKER_05]: First off, the Toyota Tacoma Trail Hunter.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is the most expensive variant of the Tacoma.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, one or two jointly most expensive because it's the same price as the TRD Pro.
[SPEAKER_05]: So Toyota has two
[SPEAKER_05]: really upper-end off-road variants of Tacoma.
[SPEAKER_05]: They've got the Trail Hunter and the TRD Pro.
[SPEAKER_05]: The TRD Pro is more of a Ford Raptor style.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's more desert-runner type of thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: High speed, over longer distances, and so the suspension is set up more for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you want something to go off on, say, the Rubicon Trail or Moab, something like that, the Trail Hunter is probably the better choice for you.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's designed more to have that compliance than everything that you want for rock crawling.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the one that I had was in the Oxide Bronze Metallic, which is sort of a bronze, green color, and really nice, nice color.
[SPEAKER_05]: They, a couple of things that visually set apart the trail hunter from the TRD Pro.
[SPEAKER_05]: The trailer hunter comes with a standard raised air intake, also commonly referred to as a snorkel.
[SPEAKER_05]: But despite having the raised air intake, it doesn't, unlike say when Ford had the Bronco Everglades a couple years ago.
[SPEAKER_05]: What Ford did and what people when they do this in the aftermarket when they add a snorkel like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: The idea is to allow for greater water fording.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that means that you also have to raise the vents for differentials and other components so you don't end up sucking in water in places where you don't want it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Toyota didn't do that on this, so it's just a raised air intake, which the primary effect of that is to make a lot of extra noise when you accelerate.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you lower the passenger window while you're accelerating, you will hear the wishing as the air is flowing through.
[SPEAKER_05]: through the snorkel oh yeah very much so it is it can be quite loud and quite annoying so there's that and then there's also a sport bar on the back above the bed like behind the cab to hold lights and the sort of things it's not really a roll bar but you know designed for you know to they said for accessory lights and racks and things like that that you might want to put up there
[SPEAKER_05]: It's got a bunch of really good off-road gear.
[SPEAKER_05]: You get ARB steel front and rear bumpers.
[SPEAKER_05]: The ARB also makes that sport bar.
[SPEAKER_05]: You get old man E-Moo dampers, really high-end dampers for that off-road performance to really help with letting the wheels move around when you're crawling over rocks.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a bunch of extra skid plates underneath to protect the underbody when you are crawling over said rocks.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think probably the biggest advantage that the trail hunter has over the TRD Pro is it does not include the isodynamic seats, which means that you can
[SPEAKER_05]: kind of use the back seats in the trail hunter.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Tacoma's back seat among mid-sized pickups is one of the tighter ones.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's particularly tighter compared to say the Ford Ranger.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if you get the TRD Pro, those ISO dynamic seats are about two or three inches thicker than the seatbacks I should say.
[SPEAKER_05]: But two or three inches thicker than the standard seats.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so you basically eat up almost all of your rear legroom if you have those seats.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Trail Hunter has the standard seats, which are actually quite good.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're comfortable, they're supportive.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the Trail Hunter might actually have more prominent side bolsters, you know, to help hold you in place, that you're rocking back and forth over the rocks.
[SPEAKER_05]: You get four wheel drive, you know, part-time four wheel drive with a two-speed transfer case, you get
[SPEAKER_05]: for low and for high.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the the two point four liter hybrid max power train which has plenty of power.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like I think about three hundred and seventy five horsepower and about four hundred and fifty foot pounds of torque.
[SPEAKER_05]: Something like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not really designed or tuned for maximum fuel economy.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's more for performance.
[SPEAKER_05]: The label value on the Monroeney for fuel economy is twenty-two city, twenty-four highway, twenty-three combined.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've never gotten anywhere near that with a Tacoma hybrid.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this one, when I went and did my fuel economy loop, I got just shy of eighteen miles per gallon.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's, you know, driving it, saying Lee, just driving it on my loop.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, a mix of highway and suburban rural and city streets, you know, staying roughly at the speed limit.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, it's just, it's never been particularly fuel efficient.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I've had the same experience with the full size, with the Tundra and with the Sequoia hybrids as well, which uses the same basic system.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, the power train said plenty of performance, not an issue there.
[SPEAKER_05]: The force owner to get an engine, we've discussed before.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not the greatest sounding engines in the world.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they sound a little rough and coarse.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're strong.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they've got plenty of performance.
[SPEAKER_05]: They just don't sound very good.
[SPEAKER_05]: compared to a lot of competitors.
[SPEAKER_05]: What else?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's a fourteen inch touch screen in the middle with the Toyota multimedia system, which is overall pretty good system, but still has the same issue of complained about since the beginning and that if you are using the native system, there's no way to have two pains or two windows on the screen so you could, you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: have navigation on there and then have the media player beside it.
[SPEAKER_05]: As an example, that's the most common use case.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so you can either have navigation or your media player or other whatever other things they have in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's, you know, that's not ideal.
[SPEAKER_05]: But you do have support for wireless Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you use any either of those, you will have your Windows interface so you can have all your stuff on the screen at the same time.
[SPEAKER_05]: You also have the JBL Flex portable speaker that's in the top of the dash behind the touchscreen.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, if you're
[SPEAKER_05]: the woods, you can't side or you know, the beach, whatever.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can pop up the speaker and use it as a Bluetooth speaker with your phone, which is handy, you know, it's a big thing, but it's a nice, it's a nice, it's a nice little feature to add in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... else uh... yeah not uh... only a few options on this one that i had uh... they had the towing technology package uh... with the wireless camera system uh... for a hundred fifty bucks the door panel scuff protector for hundred thirty five uh... a uh... ball mount uh... for the the hitch seventy bucks and uh... five hundred seventy five dollars for this brand bedliner uh... grand total
[SPEAKER_05]: sixty six thousand four hundred and five dollars.
[SPEAKER_05]: It size trucks have gotten very expensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's a lot of truck to be fair, but that is not a money.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, that is about ten thousand dollars more than a Ford Ranger Raptor.
[SPEAKER_05]: Would you get the Ford Ranger Raptor?
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you get this?
[SPEAKER_05]: If I was spending my own money, I would probably go for the Ranger Raptor.
[SPEAKER_01]: You would.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, you know, ten grand is ten grand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ten grand is ten grand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the, you know, the Ranger, you know, has more power.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Ranger Raptor is more power.
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't actually get any worse fuel economy, arguably, and something, you know, a lot of tests I've seen.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's actually, it's something typically similar or a little better.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the back seat is a little roomier than it is in the Tacoma, even without the outside dynamic seats.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I would probably opt for the Ranger Raptor if I was spending my money.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this is a good truck.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't do any off-roading during the time I had it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But earlier this year, I was at last year when we were doing the Toyota four runner drive,
[SPEAKER_05]: we're out west.
[SPEAKER_05]: They have a trail hunter version of the forerunner as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the forerunner and Tacoma are the same platform.
[SPEAKER_05]: The forerunner trail hunter has all the same good stuff, the old mangy mood dampers and ARB stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we did do some rock crawling with that one.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I know it is very very capable so it can it can go places where you know a lot of other vehicles can't But yeah, I think I'll say I would I would probably get the ranger from for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm probably go with I'd be with you probably do stranger yeah
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you are a Toyota fan and you like to come us and a lot of people do, the Tacoma remains by far the best selling mid-sized pickup in the market.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, sells nearly double any other mid-sized pickup truck.
[SPEAKER_05]: So obviously a lot of people that really like Tacomas.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, at the, you know, for the more, like the SR-V, you know, the lower trim levels of Tacomas, the pricing is a lot more reasonable.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they started around forty grand, which is, which is a lot more reasonable.
[SPEAKER_05]: But, at the, at the upper end, they do get quite expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they get a little pricey.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: The other vehicle I had, also had a Toyota hybrid system in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it wasn't a Toyota.
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... it was the twenty twenty five Subaru forster touring hybrid uh... a city yeah uh... so this year uh... for the forster hybrid uh... they've had a plug-in hybrid system in some of the Subaru's like the cross track in prior years this year uh... even they've discarded that uh... on on the this sheet here it refers to it as a next generation Subaru series parallel hybrid system
[SPEAKER_05]: What this is in fact is the Toyota hybrid system, but it has been repackaged because on Toyota's front wheel drive or all wheel drive Toyota's with the hybrid systems.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're set up with inline four cylinder engines and mounted transversely under the hood.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so the transmission, the hybrid drive unit has to be packaged in a certain way to mount on the end of the engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: While in a Subaru, they're using their four cylinder boxer engines, which have the crank shaft instead of going sideways across the car.
[SPEAKER_05]: The crank shaft is going
[SPEAKER_05]: forward and back, long toudinal.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so they basically took the guts of the Toyota system and put it in a new case, a new package, to made up with a Subaru Boxer engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then put that into the forester, and I think it's going to be in a couple of other models as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what you get is a five passenger, five door crossover.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's funny, you know, I haven't driven a forester in quite a long time.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when I walked up to this, you know, and had it parked next to a Hyundai ionic nine that I'll talk about next week.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was surprised at how large it was.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was larger than I expected it to be.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's quite roomy inside.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is, you know, Subaru's using their two-point five-liter boxer engine in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: The combined output is a hundred and ninety-four horsepower, which again, is not a lot, but, you know, given the size, it's good to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: The forester is actually
[SPEAKER_05]: not crazy heavy I mean it's not light but you know three thousand nine hundred forty six pounds it's not ridiculously heavy and so the performance is good it's decent and it is rated at thirty five miles per gallon city thirty four highway thirty five combined which is in the same ballpark as the as the other all-wheel drive versions
[SPEAKER_05]: of, you know, the hybrid compact crossovers like the RAF-IV and the CRV and the Ford Escape and the Hyundai's and Kia's, you know, they're all in that thirty-five, thirty-six mile per gallon area for the all-wheel drive versions.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, granted those competitors, you can also get them with front-wheel drive to get you closer to forty miles per gallon.
[SPEAKER_05]: Subaru does not offer this with front wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all wheel drive only.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you get, you know, you're going to get slightly less fuel economy than you would with a front wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_05]: But with sixteen and a half gallon tank, you know, they say, five hundred and eighty one miles of range.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, you know, on my test loop, I actually got thirty seven miles per gallon with, uh, with this.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I did a little better than the, then I'm in Ronnie.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and so that's, uh, you know, it's, it's reasonably, uh, fuel efficient, particularly given the size of the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and, yeah, excuse me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, one thing that, uh, I found particularly noteworthy, you know, I mentioned earlier the sound of, uh, Toyota four-seller engines.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because this is a Toyota hybrid system, it behaves, it has the same kind of control strategy as a Toyota.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you get that motorboating effect where when you're accelerating it'll often rev the engine up to about four thousand RPM and it'll sit there.
[SPEAKER_05]: And just rev it constant speed as the CVT system is gradually changing gear ratios and getting you up to whatever speed you're going to accelerate to.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, in a Toyota hybrid like a camera, or Prius, or Rolla, it's not the most pleasant sound in the world.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Subaru on the other hand.
[SPEAKER_05]: actually was both quieter and the sound I did get was much more pleasant to listen to.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did not have that kind of droning sound that you have from the Toyota four cylinders.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this was actually a much more pleasant vehicle to drive than, you know, say a RAV-four hybrid.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, got decent fuel economy to boot.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's that.
[SPEAKER_05]: As I said, it's roomy.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's got plenty of cargo space in the back.
[SPEAKER_05]: Probably my biggest complaint about it is the infotainment system.
[SPEAKER_05]: Both the software, which is its Subaru's older Starlink system, it's been around in Subaru's for a better part of a decade.
[SPEAKER_05]: But more importantly, the display that they were using.
[SPEAKER_05]: not a great display yeah so you know if you look at most modern devices most modern screens and cars or tablets or your phones the way you know the display is actually a stack of a bunch of components you got the there's the digitizer on top which is actually sensing when you drag your finger across it and there's the
[SPEAKER_05]: the glass and then the display is actually underneath that, the actual LCD that renders the stuff that you're looking at.
[SPEAKER_05]: And on most modern displays, those are all laminated together really tightly.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it looks like the display is pretty much at the surface that you're touching.
[SPEAKER_05]: When you look display in the Subaru, you can see where the display itself is actually well backed from the top surface that you're touching.
[SPEAKER_05]: On top of that, it doesn't have the highest contrast, it's not the brightest screen.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not as bad as some of the old Nissan screens, Nissan's gone away from those, but it's not a great display.
[SPEAKER_05]: So hopefully, certainly in a vehicle that we drove this week, we'll talk about probably next week, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: That one has a much better display in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hopefully we'll start seeing Subaru adding those to some of their vehicles as well in the next couple of years.
[SPEAKER_05]: What else?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, eight point seven inches of ground clearance, which is really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, for vehicle this type, it's better and pretty much anything in the class.
[SPEAKER_05]: Most of them around eight to eight point three, eight point two inches.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some are even less summer.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some are well under eight inches of ground clearance.
[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, a lot of them are.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_05]: The I site ADAS system doesn't use radar.
[SPEAKER_05]: It uses stereoscopic cameras mounted behind the windshield.
[SPEAKER_05]: Worked pretty well.
[SPEAKER_05]: I had no issues with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did a decent job at length centering and adapted cruise control.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's see what else.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and those are the main things.
[SPEAKER_05]: It does have Sport for Wireless CarPlay and Android Auto as most other vehicles do now too.
[SPEAKER_05]: USB-A and USB-C ports.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a wireless charging pad for your phone.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's a good car to do stuff if you have an active lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_05]: We loaded it up, took it to the lake, took it to the lake, to do some paddle boarding last week, and put the seat cover in the back there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Lots of room in the back for a couple of each chairs in the paddle board.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a good vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: I quite liked it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And as I said, it's quite fuel efficient, base price on the total price, forty four thousand and five dollars.
[SPEAKER_05]: You want to guess at the destination charge?
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go with nine ninety-five.
[SPEAKER_05]: fourteen twenty what was way off yeah base price for the touring trim is forty one sixty five I'm not sure after time ahead what the base price is let me see base price for the where's building price on the Subaru website let's see forster
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's see, premium, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So Subaru is a little unusual.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oftentimes on many other vehicles, the base trim level is actually called premium.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I think just messes with you like how many people could reach?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: There actually is a base foraster, but that's the gas only version that starts at twenty nine ninety five.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then there's the premium and then the base price or the base level for the hybrid is the premium hybrid, which is thirty six five ninety five.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the touring that I drove actually looks like since the Monroe knee that I had with the car was initially printed.
[SPEAKER_05]: The price has gone up.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's now the touring hybrid is now actually forty three thousand two ninety five plus the fourteen twenty destination charge.
[SPEAKER_05]: But when you compare that against the top trim levels, and you compare any of the trim levels, the thirty-six for the premium hybrid is in the same ballpark as what you would pay for an all-wheel drive RAF-IV hybrid or CRV hybrid, they're comparably priced.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, mid-Forties for the Subaru Forester Hybrid.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that, let's see, let's move on to some other stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So Ford had some big news on Monday last Monday.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you watch the reveal or the announcement or anything was a stream from Louisville?
[SPEAKER_02]: Not actually watched the reveal, but I know what happened to my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything just closed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am aware of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The great big,
[SPEAKER_02]: electric pickups news.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, the, you know, if you were actually writing down those words that you just said, you would probably have some commas in there, or maybe rearrange the sequence of those words, because what we're not talking about here is great big pickups that are a lecture.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're talking about great big news about electric pickups.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's because it's not going to be a big pickup that's going to be a small pickup and they're saying it's going to start under about thirty thousand or they say under thirty thousand at about thirty thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thirty thousand dollars they're going to make it at the Louisville Kentucky plant.
[SPEAKER_02]: I sit Louisville right I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it sounds cool, but you know, it still weighs off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they're saying production is planned to start at the end of twenty six.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's over a year from now, because it's only August of twenty five.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll go on sale in twenty twenty seven.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's still a long way off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel like when these OEMs make these announcements that are just, we're gonna build this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, awesome when, three years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just feel like there's a lot of wiggle room in there for things to happen as far as what consumers want and what pricing does.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we have things like tariffs and all these other things to worry about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the cost of the, I don't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: So as you mentioned, this is gonna be a smaller truck.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ford has been, Ford first talked about this, first brought it up, about a year ago when they were announcing some shuffling of their EV plans.
[SPEAKER_05]: They mentioned that, you know, they've talked about this Skunk Works program.
[SPEAKER_05]: They have in California to develop lower cost EVs.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is the first product of that program.
[SPEAKER_05]: And a year ago they said, yeah, we're doing a mid-sized electric pickup from the Skunk Works program.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's the first product, first of several products from that program.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're now officially calling this platform, their universal electric vehicle platform.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because it's going to be, it's a flexible system that can support a bunch of different form factors.
[SPEAKER_05]: And even though they call it, they've been referring to it as a mid-sized.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was on a call with some executives on Monday morning, a couple hours before the announcement.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I asked, you know, so you call this a mid-sized.
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, what is the actual size of this?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is it closer and size to a Maverick or a Ranger, which is, you know, the Maverick is considered the compact truck and the Ranger's the mid-sized.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they said it's about the same footprint as a maverick.
[SPEAKER_05]: But because it's an EV, they can package things better.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so they're, you know, in terms of the cabin space and everything, they said it'll have more passenger volume.
[SPEAKER_05]: than the new RAV-IV, which is roughly a hundred cubic feet.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's going to be fairly roomy, a passenger cabin.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to have a front, it's going to have a bed, and that's about it as far as specs that they've told us.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have the loses of details about this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Very, very loses.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is not surprising given that we're looking at the end of next year before they start building the thing because things could change between now and then.
[SPEAKER_02]: So many sense that they haven't really given them a nitty gritty on this just yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: But my guess is that at that thirty thousand dollar price point at that base, they are probably, I'm guessing they're probably going to have two battery size options.
[SPEAKER_05]: That base truck will probably have a range of about two hundred and fifty miles.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they'll probably be about a three hundred mile version.
[SPEAKER_05]: It'll probably be about three or four thousand dollars more.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what's what's unique here.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they have told us a bunch of other technical details without getting into specific specs.
[SPEAKER_05]: So a key part of how they're getting cost out of this thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: is that they're following the pattern that was initially set by Tesla in twenty-two with their Texas built model-wise.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's now being copied by a bunch of Chinese automakers, where instead of the body being built up from a bunch of steel stampings, they're using a couple of large aluminum die castings for the front structure and for the rear structure.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then joining those to a structural battery pack in the middle.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the big part of the announcement on Monday is that they're adopting this new production system.
[SPEAKER_05]: They call it an all-new revolutionary production system.
[SPEAKER_05]: They talked about going from the Model T style assembly line to what they're now calling their universal EV production system or an assembly tree.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the rendering that they showed us, you know, had showed, you know, just a single transfer line is the old style assembly line.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the assembly tree was three branches, three parallel branches, one making the front structure, one putting together the rear structure and one putting together the central section that then all come together to be joined together into a finished vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the particular arrangement that they're doing here
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, and the combination of the way the vehicle is architected is new, but it's not entirely new.
[SPEAKER_02]: Quite as revolutionary, maybe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so, you know, as I said, the diagram that they showed had three parallel branches, you know, four of these three sections of the vehicle that then joined together.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, if you look at the Rouge Electrical Vehicle Center, which is the plant where they build the lightning today, it's a separate factory that's adjacent to the main F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-Lin-F-L
[SPEAKER_05]: The way that plant has arranged is at one end of the building.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have the cabin bed that are built in the body shop next door along with all the gas F-one-fifty bodies.
[SPEAKER_05]: They come in, they put them down on an automated guided vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: And as it starts to move down the assembly, as it starts to move, because it's not actually on a line, the AGV just moves from station to station.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's basically an automated cart.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the people on the line are adding parts to it and they're stalling the dashboards and the seats and everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it moves towards the center of the building.
[SPEAKER_05]: From the far opposite end of the building,
[SPEAKER_05]: They bring in a frame and a battery pack.
[SPEAKER_05]: They put those onto an AGV and they join them all together and add the suspension and the high voltage wiring harness as it moves towards the center of the building.
[SPEAKER_05]: When they get to the center of the building, they flip that chassis over, put the cab in the bed on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: turn ninety degrees and then continue down another branch back parallel to the original one to put on the wheels and all the the last components before it rolls out of the building you know so it's kind of like the assembly tree but with the branches instead of being parallel sticking up think of it as being flattened out
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the same basic concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: The specifics of the arrangement of where the branches are is a little different, but it's the same basic concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: What is different is that when they do that on the lightning, when they put in the dashboard, they have to go through the door openings in the cap.
[SPEAKER_05]: When they put in the seats, they go through the door openings in the cap.
[SPEAKER_05]: which makes it really awkward to maneuver all these big parts in there and then get everything bolted down.
[SPEAKER_05]: What they're doing for this universal EV platform is none of that stuff is going in through door openings.
[SPEAKER_05]: Instead, they're doing what Tesla does with the Model Y in Texas.
[SPEAKER_05]: which is they have the battery pack actually is the floor of the car.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there is no floor in the body.
[SPEAKER_05]: The battery pack forms the floor.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so on one of those three branches, they put down the carpet, they bolt the seats onto that, they bolt in the console, they bolt in the dashboard, and then they lift all that up into the central structure of the car through the through a big hole in the floor and then bolt it into place.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that makes it a lot easier to build.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot fewer parts.
[SPEAKER_05]: It can go the process can go a lot faster.
[SPEAKER_05]: The ergonomics are a lot better for the workers.
[SPEAKER_05]: The whole thing takes a lot of cost.
[SPEAKER_05]: It can improve quality if you do it right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that there's a lot of potential.
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... for for and and you know the link in links in the show notes to a couple of articles right talk about this in more detail but i think there's a lot of potential for this to i think for if they if they execute everything correctly which is the key caveat here uh... then you know they could potentially build a thirty thousand dollar electric pickup truck uh... profitably you know and after the pickup there will be cross-overs and uh... perhaps the dance you know they show to
[SPEAKER_05]: an animated jiff that showed a bunch of different body styles on this and you know this kind of architecture is pretty easy to do different body styles off of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we'll see the other component of course is you know they've got a new zonal electronic architecture which means all new software.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's where things are probably most likely to go sideways.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so we'll see what happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be interesting to see what happens and it would be cool if they can build a truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that I feel we can have lots of promises for a truck that maybe that price point they don't really happen.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, I mean, like I said, this is the kind of approach that a lot of this is what Chinese automakers are doing to build their twenty twenty five thousand dollar EVs and we'll see if a Ford can pull it up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ford will be based on what we know so far.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ford looks to be the first legacy automaker to take this approach to building EVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel, you know, it would be cool if they can do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it'll be interesting to see hopefully they give us some information as they're sort of moving along so we can follow how this all comes together.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if they can execute it, I think Slate's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you do.
[SPEAKER_02]: You think it will be done if they do this?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because for thirty thousand dollars, you're getting compactish to mid-sized electric pickup truck with probably two hundred and fifty miles of range.
[SPEAKER_05]: It will have four doors, seating for five.
[SPEAKER_05]: It will have power windows.
[SPEAKER_05]: It will have an infotainment system.
[SPEAKER_05]: None of which are included in the twenty-seven thousand dollars slate to door pickup.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think there will be some people that will want the minimalist slate, but I think there will be a lot more people that would be the number of people that will want to pay twenty-seven thousand dollars for a two-door slate with no radio in it and manual windows.
[SPEAKER_05]: versus the number of people that will say three thousand dollars more to get a truck that's painted already that I don't have to apply the rap to that don't have to stick a radio and that it don't have you know that I can you know that take carry my friends and not have to spend the money to install extra seats or you know anything else
[SPEAKER_05]: I think Slate is going to have a really hard time competing with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this, when I saw the Slate, I thought it was neat.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really interesting idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing was people who were excited about it were just super excited about everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't tell those, you know, like, when people who were like the early adopters of any new company, any new whatever, always super excited about it, I mean, I remember guys feeling that way about this girl.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at that one, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, we'll get to Fiskar a little bit later.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or the descendants of Fiskar.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I mean, it's going to be interesting to watch.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it, I think Slate's going to have a hard time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Unless they can sell that truck for.
[SPEAKER_05]: If they can sell it for twenty grand, the original plan was based on having tax credits, which would have brought the base price down down to about twenty thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_05]: With those gone, you know, Ford designed this to be sold at thirty thousand dollars before credits.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's going to be, I think Ford is probably going to have a lot easier time selling their trucks and it's late.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think especially, you know, if it's, if it's a maverick size truck, I mean, we'll call popular maverick is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a, it's a, that's a great size.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, to have an EV in that category would be, it's affordable.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the key.
[SPEAKER_02]: Having an EV that's affordable, that would be a big deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do it if they can do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, Cadillac announced a new program this week, called Curated by Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the German automakers all have these customization programs.
[SPEAKER_05]: Porsche does it, BMW does it, Mercedes-Benz does it, Audi does it, where, you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: if you don't like the color options that are available, or you want a different interior on your car, or pretty much anything else, they will build it for you.
[SPEAKER_05]: They'll cost you, but they'll build it for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's only on the CT five, twenty twenty six CT five, the black wing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, to start with for Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_05]: When you said the Germans, you know, do it on most of their models.
[SPEAKER_05]: They have, you know, there's BMW individual and Mercedes manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_05]: I forget what Porsche calls their program.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But now, Cadillac is doing this, and they're starting with the CT-FI Blackwing.
[SPEAKER_05]: My guess is if it's even reasonably successful, they will add this to other models.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the next year or two.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what you end up with is a CT-FI Blackwing that is essentially hand-built, and they will
[SPEAKER_05]: Customize it for you.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can have a pallet of more than a hundred and sixty colors.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a hundred including high-gloss and frost each hand painted by artisans to show quality standards.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a hand painted gar.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they're going to be building these in a separate facility from the normal plant in Lansing.
[SPEAKER_05]: And instead of going through the normal paint shop, they will build up the body and they'll have guys out there spraying, you know, painting these cars by hand and finishing, you know, buffing them and painting, you know, finishing them off.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, and they will have an expanded selection of colors and materials.
[SPEAKER_05]: It can be mixed and matched.
[SPEAKER_05]: Access to elevated client experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was kind of for this kind of experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: They talk about the concierge and it's not just a random person from Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're saying these are true like design experts who worked in, what do they say fashion entertainment, a fine arts design.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're the ones who are going to be helping you advise on your curated by Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_02]: Presumably so you don't think that two things look great together that designers are going to say.
[SPEAKER_05]: They'll provide some feedback for you.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think ultimately, you know, the goal is to have the customer be the customer have what they want.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, they will... To note what the starting price is to have what you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you see that number?
[SPEAKER_02]: Famous?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is elevated from the standard CTI five black wing.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the start.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Depending on how fancy you get with your interior,
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the start, but it does include the destination fee.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, they're going to build these in Warren.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a building at the GM, Tech Center in Warren, Michigan, which is where they also assemble the, the Celestec.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's where they're going to be building these black wings, the CT-FI black wings.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they do have a couple of images, presumably, of one of the ideas you could get.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a, what is they, they're calling, they have an interior in Morello red that looks incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: And an exterior in deep, amethyst metallic.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they look cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, people, it's gonna let you come up with some pretty slick looking cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I always thought it was cool to make your own car, like to really pick like, I don't just want one of these three color schemes you have.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want this.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of neat.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, these one of one programs, I think are pretty interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Dodge did it with the last run of Viper's, the last few hundred Viper's, a few years back.
[SPEAKER_05]: They did a one of one program, so each customer could order and customize theirs, however they wanted, and then whatever combination they picked, that was off the table for any subsequent customers.
[SPEAKER_05]: So no other customer could order the exact same car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so nobody could ever do because you literally were driving at one of one that could have been done with anyone else.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they also just announced that they're doing the same thing now with the Durango for twenty twenty six.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're offering a one of one program with the Durango.
[SPEAKER_05]: Forget what exactly what they call it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But you know, they've got a bunch of special colors that you can order.
[SPEAKER_05]: Different color combinations and stripes and different other other things.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now Cadillacs doing this.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if the Cadillac
[SPEAKER_05]: program is exclusive.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not clear if they will let multiple customers choose the same combination.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't say anything in there about them saying once it's designed, that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't look like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has any way to keep that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Although the chances are pretty slim that you probably get two of you who picked exactly the same crazy design.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you know, unless you wanted, you know, his and hers or his and his, you know, for you and your partner or hers and hers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you see that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_05]: What is a CT five black one start at anyway right now?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's a tan.
[SPEAKER_05]: The CT five V series black wing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Starts at ninety nine thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good chunk more for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you're looking, almost about sixty grand, sixty thousand dollars more to start with.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe you might want to consider ordering one of these two as your next vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, maybe a thousand dollars, maybe a order too, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: You know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this box we're talking about your vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to provide us any potentially final update on the wagon you're asking?
[SPEAKER_02]: At the moment, the wagon you're asking is, it's going as it should.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is in my drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: We actually took it on a big little road trip yesterday up to the beach to have lobster rolls and a charge when it was supposed to charge and unplugged it and it was ready to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's going as it should.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just got it back this past week.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's still a couple of issues that have nothing to do with the battery.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're working on those.
[SPEAKER_02]: But for the moment, she runs.
[SPEAKER_02]: The swagonier is going.
[SPEAKER_02]: She runs.
[SPEAKER_05]: So is it going to be in your possession for much longer?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm unsure.
[SPEAKER_02]: How about we leave that game?
[SPEAKER_05]: So you haven't finally.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there could be a further update.
[SPEAKER_02]: There could be a further update.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I am unsure how things are going to roll out at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, there will probably be one more update, at least one more update.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's running right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want all day yesterday was fabulous.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do love it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's that's important because even even when your car's frustrating you if you still love it, you know, then we do, which is at least what some part of this Sam is that I don't hate the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just hate when it doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I love the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love driving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really quiet.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really peppy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I have a little bit of an abusive relationship with my wife and Eras.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am familiar with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: We had the same scenario with a couple of Volkswagen's, so for many years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it and you keep me like, oh gosh, I know it's gonna do this to me and I love it anyway.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, especially with our two thousand facade.
[SPEAKER_05]: We had exactly that kind of relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we'll see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Things are a little bit up in the air, but I'll keep you guys all updated about how that rolls out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's talk about some of the stuff that's happening at Monterey.
[SPEAKER_05]: This weekend as we're recording the, let's see, a lot of the events at Monterey car week are winding down the concours at Pebble Beach is still going on today.
[SPEAKER_05]: At least here in the US, Monterey car week is actually kind of in many ways become the most important auto show.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is where we see a lot of, at least at the higher end of the market, a lot of debuts, a lot of interesting concepts.
[SPEAKER_05]: that, you know, if you happen to be, well, probably by the time you hear this, it's probably too late, but, you know, they were, they were actually showing one of those CT, curated CT five black wings at Monterey, but there's a bunch of other stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's start with Akira.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So last year at Monterey, Akira showed off a concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: They called the precision electric concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: That was, it's funny, when we saw it, they had already launched the ZDX.
[SPEAKER_05]: The original ZDX was, was Akira's first
[SPEAKER_05]: SUV coupe, you know, the first fastback, you know, utility vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's like it seemed like if they were going to build something like this, that's the car they should have called the ZDX, but they didn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: They put that name on a car on a utility based on the Cadillac lyric, a more wagon-like vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then in earlier this year, they released an image of a chemo-wrapped prototype that Akira announced would be their first in-house-built EV.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now this week in Monterey, they have showed it as the RSX prototype.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, in Honda and Acura's terminology, when they call something a prototype, as opposed to a concept, what you are seeing is effectively the production vehicle with only very minor tweaks.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like in this case, you know, probably the mirror, you know, you'll probably get, you know, standard optical mirrors instead of the digital mirrors around this one.
[SPEAKER_05]: But otherwise, what we see here is basically the new RSX that will go into production late this year in Mary'sville, Ohio.
[SPEAKER_05]: Go on sale early in twenty twenty six.
[SPEAKER_05]: At based on the new Honda EV platform that will also be used for the Honda Zero Series vehicles.
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_02]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: This color that they have they're showing us in is sort of a yellowy gold color that's actually really cool and it looks neat with the black accents in the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it looks good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the design of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that it's not too fussy in the front.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's it's got just enough angles.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a sleek looking little car.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_05]: I agree, I like it a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm generally not a huge fan of these SUV coups, but I think this one's pretty well executed.
[SPEAKER_05]: The main difference, it's actually stuck surprisingly close to last year's concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's been toned down.
[SPEAKER_05]: a little bit, but not a whole lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: The biggest difference, I think, you know, from looking, I was looking back and forth at the images the other day of the last year's concept and this one.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the concept, the greenhouse was smaller.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the roof line was a little bit lower, the whole greenhouse area was kind of squished down a little bit to give it a more out there appearance, but other than making the greenhouse a little bit bigger,
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so you actually have some volume for passengers, which the concept didn't have to accommodate.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's not bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the profile.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's good for my, you know, it's nice from the front.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good three quarter or three quarter, but that profile.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love how they've done, how they've done that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Could like you said the coup hatchback, the SUV coupe thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like how this one is executed.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't look
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes they look like you just took an SUV and messed with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we have this as a perfect little SUV now as a coupe.
[SPEAKER_02]: This one just looks like it was designed to look this way.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it does look like it was purpose designed for this profile.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like they messed with something they had and tried to make it work.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I expect we'll probably see the final production version of this.
[SPEAKER_05]: perhaps at the LA Auto Show in November.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it's CES, but I think it'll probably be at LA is where we'll see the production, the actual production version.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it's basically going to be what you see here.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Next up from Monterey.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's do infinity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So infinity showed a couple of different things.
[SPEAKER_05]: They have the QX-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six-Six
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another sport back SUV, which you don't generally like, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that in your category, not liking?
[SPEAKER_05]: Generally, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: When do you think of this one, compared to the Accura?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I actually saw this almost two years ago, for your first time when I was in Japan.
[SPEAKER_05]: When I was at I went to the twenty twenty three Japan mobility show with Nissan and it took us to their their headquarters or their design center and they I'll sponsor a buyer who's the head of design for Nissan global head of design for Nissan
[SPEAKER_05]: basically walked us down this row of prototypes and clay models and fiberglass models of everything Nissan had planned for its global lineup over the next four years.
[SPEAKER_05]: And among those, we've now seen several of those vehicles come to market.
[SPEAKER_05]: The kicks, was there.
[SPEAKER_05]: The new Nissan Micro that is launching overseas, unfortunately we don't get.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Morano, who's there.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now the QX-Sixie-Five is the latest one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and the leaf.
[SPEAKER_05]: They showed us the new leaf, which we'll be driving in a few weeks for the first time.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the QX-Sixy-Five.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is basically the QX-Sixy, which is an infinities version of the Nissan Pathfinder, with the third row removed, and the roof chopped off at the back.
[SPEAKER_05]: So give you a coupe.
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_02]: I like how it looks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the girls a little on the aggressive side.
[SPEAKER_02]: From the front I'm not, it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you look at the front picture?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think, you know, this is the direction they're trying to go with infinity, you know, to make it bolder and set it apart even more from the side.
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes it bolder and makes it stand out more.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it gives it more.
[SPEAKER_02]: distinctive character, especially the lightning across the front.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like they're really trying to give it something that's distinctively infinity, which I think is a good call.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it needs that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Other than the girl being a little bit on the out there side, like even the lighting pattern in the back when you look at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've done a lot with lights, which you know who does that Kia does so much cool stuff with the lighting signatures on their cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just becomes such a neat aspect of their vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like Infinity's doing something kind of similar with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a good call.
[SPEAKER_02]: The vehicle overall, like the, you know, the dimensions of it and the, you know, the profile and everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks a little more traditional SUV coupe profile, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I like this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, like the actors sort of slope your
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a smoother back to the the the the accurate just talking about then about then this one, but I do like what they did with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think Sam?
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you think?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I agree with which said like the the roof line, you know, it's not it's not cut down quite as aggressively as the accurate, you know, the the accurate I think is going for even more of the the coupe thing, you know, where the the you know, they're less worried about backseat.
[SPEAKER_05]: headroom, whereas in this one, you know, you've got, there's a metal trim piece that goes across the top of the side glass that kind of gives you that sort of profile.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then the actual metal, which, at least on this concept, is done in black to contrast from the rest of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's similar to the idea that Ford did with the Mustang Machi.
[SPEAKER_05]: which was, you know, to have a contrast and color for, you know, like a black for the roof and to kind of hide the fact that the roof line actually extends back a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you have some extra rear seat headroom.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this one I think will probably be a little bit more usable for multiple passengers than the
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, aside from that, and I think this one, you know, a couple of years ago when they launched the QX-fifty five, they talked about it being inspired by the old Infinity FX from the early two thousands.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't think it ever quite really fit with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think at least from a design perspective, I think this is a lot closer to the sort of feel we had from the FX than the QX-fifty-five was.
[SPEAKER_05]: Although, from a performance standpoint, I don't think this will match what the FX did, because the FX was built on a rear drive platform with a longitudinal V-six head or was also available with a V-eight engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, this is based on the Pathfinder QX-V-V.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's a front drive, all-wheel drive platform.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think, you know, it'll do fine, but, you know, it's, I do like, I think the design's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think they've done a decent job on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it does look good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like it too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Then the other thing that infinity is showing,
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a pair of QxAdes, which also have very large girls, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, large girls, that's kind of the theme, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like, but I don't find it as much on the QxAdes, at least the track spec one, the terrain spec one is wild.
[SPEAKER_02]: The track spec one I actually really like.
[SPEAKER_02]: The terrain spec is...
[SPEAKER_02]: That's wild the front end of that car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Between the lights on the roof and the lights that are just the lights and there's so many lines.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, a lot of vertical and slightly diagonal lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's lines, it's lines everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do like the tracks back one though.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, my problem with the trackspeck.
[SPEAKER_05]: The QXA is a big, three-row body-on-frame full-size SUV.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not much different from the expedition you were driving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_05]: The idea of making a trackspeck version of such a vehicle just seems anathema to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why would I, why would I want a vehicle like this on a track?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, well, there was the, there was the Durango SRT Helcat, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in the three was, there was a two.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a three, well, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so the Durango, that's a track where the car, did you like that one?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not a huge fan of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, see, and then what else?
[SPEAKER_05]: It was the Cherokee or the Grand Cherokee track hoc.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just in a few row, but it's still big.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just, this one, even compared to the Durango, this is a larger vehicle than the Durango.
[SPEAKER_05]: The grand Cherokee was the smallest of that group.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's probably a more reasonable size to have a high performance model.
[SPEAKER_05]: The tracks back, this tracks back.
[SPEAKER_05]: QXAD, I don't know, it just, it doesn't do it for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: What about, so do you like the terrain spec better?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the terrain spec makes more sense for this kind of vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's basically an overlanding version of the QXAD.
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably makes more sense, but I don't like the, there's so many lines on the front of the grill it hurts my head.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a little diagonal lines in the grill.
[SPEAKER_02]: They go a different way of the lines that make up the headlights.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a different set of lines in the trim at the edge of the hood.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's lines that go a different direction underneath.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it looks like there's lines that are on the skid plate possibly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's lines along there's so many lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I'm having a visual aura from like in a mic.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's lines everywhere.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's fair enough.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I mean, you can have the tracks back.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll take the trains back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, this is fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll get one of each.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll just trade off and see which we like better in the real world.
[SPEAKER_05]: That works.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_05]: What else?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_05]: In addition to showing the curated CT-Five Blacks back, they had an actual concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: What a wild concept, too.
[SPEAKER_05]: The elevated velocity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the first thing I think about this when I look at this and that mean pictures of Delorean.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I see when I look at this, like Delorean for twenty twenty five.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you see it?
[SPEAKER_05]: I do, I do, because it's finished in silver.
[SPEAKER_05]: It almost looks like it could be, you know, bare stainless steel.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't, it's not, but it's not.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's got going doors, big, huge going door.
[SPEAKER_05]: In enormous going doors.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at the, it's of that door.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're also very long.
[SPEAKER_05]: When you look at it from the side profile, they're very long doors, because unlike a Dolorin, which was a two-seat vehicle, this is a big four-seat utility, you know, technically an SUV.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I thought something that was interesting, I was on the briefing call, the backgrounder for this on Monday.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when they showed us these images, I thought it took me back to New York this year when we saw the Genesis concept, which, I mean, it's a very different vehicle from this, but it's also, it's got some interesting similarities in that these are both very large.
[SPEAKER_05]: very high riding, lots of ground clearance, big wheels and tires, very long hood profile.
[SPEAKER_05]: In the case of the Genesis, the greenhouse is more upright, more boxy, you know, whereas this is much sleeker.
[SPEAKER_05]: than the genesis, but this idea of these high-end luxury SUVs, very long hood, you know, very big wheels, lots of ground clearance, is going to be interesting to watch in the next...
[SPEAKER_05]: Three, four or five years to see if we actually start seeing vehicles of this form factor start to come to market.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because this is a concept, so this doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not even a prototype like you're talking about earlier.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is purely a concept, which means we could see something kind of sort of maybe like this or not even remotely at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, and Cadillac
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, over the last twenty, twenty-five years has been less inclined to bring concept ideas like this to production than I think Genesis has.
[SPEAKER_05]: Genesis, you know, more of the concepts that Genesis has shown have filtered their way into production in some form.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think if either company, if either brand is likely to do it, it seems like it's more likely Genesis will do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, both of these are also electric, which is interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you see that there is a bespoke polo set in the rear of the Cadillac elevated velocity concept?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's literally a polo set in a little light case.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, when I first look at this though, it makes me think a Harry Potter with a niche that's a little thing, like the little the red.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's actually a helmet and the helmet should sprout wings.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that with that supposed to be the helmet?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was supposed to, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's gloves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sunglasses.
[SPEAKER_02]: The polo balls.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's, I guess those two other pieces.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do they supposed to be the mallet?
[SPEAKER_02]: The mallet together.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're standing mallet.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's those make the mallet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like that peace in the middle has to be the helmet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or the golden snitch for Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_05]: Who knows?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's an interesting concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: If nothing else, even if they don't build a vehicle like this, there's some interesting design ideas that I think we will see filter into future catalogs.
[SPEAKER_05]: When you look at the back, the lighting, especially in the center section, it's got this depth to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It looks like there's a tunnel that's lit up when you look at it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's got these light bars in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Actually, Honda did something very similar last year with their zero-series saloon concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: Had a similar kind of idea there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's the takeaway from the concepts.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't generally see something this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really looks like this coming to production, but you'll see elements of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does show you what the designers at a given company are thinking.
[SPEAKER_02]: It shows you what they're putting to focus on and where they might.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're not might let's see this, but you could see something that has that sort of lighting in the back or has that sort of curving to the sheet metal.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does give you hint at where their minds are.
[SPEAKER_02]: This would be their wildest ideas here, but tone that down and you can get bits and pieces of this in production cars, which would be sort of neat to see.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it's going to be very interesting to watch Cadillac over the next five, ten years, because in a couple of recent briefings I've been in with them.
[SPEAKER_05]: They've talked a lot about a few weeks ago, was on one with John Roth, the president of Cadillac, or whatever his current title is.
[SPEAKER_05]: They had a Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you talked about wanting, really, there's a lot of emphasis on expanding the brand globally.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, Cadillac had some good success in China, but that is faltering as it is for all non-Chinese OEMs.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so they're looking, okay, where can we make up for that lost market share in China?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, looking at the rest of the world, looking at Europe, South Asia, and everywhere else.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, this is part of what's behind their strategy with racing as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, in the last couple of years, they've gone into the world of DERS Championship with the GTP car.
[SPEAKER_05]: They are running, they're going to be joining Formula One next year.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to be a Cadillac Formula One team starting in twenty twenty six.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, those are not insignificant investments.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the reason why you do that is to promote your brand outside of the US.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're not going to go into Formula One and into World Endurance Championship, you know, just to sell more cars in Omaha.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's something we'll come back to coming.
[SPEAKER_05]: Where was that coming from?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is something open up behind me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I was watching the screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that was a bit of.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I had windows open looking at all this stuff we were talking about.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, it'll be interesting to see what other sorts of products Cadillac comes out with over the next few years.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then finally, on the US side, you remember the Fiskart Karma?
[SPEAKER_02]: I do remember the fiscal crime that they came before the fiscal ocean, the first iteration of fiscal that failed, before the second iteration of fiscal that failed, is this the third iteration of fiscal, what is this?
[SPEAKER_05]: So when fiscal automotive, which was the company that built the fiscal karma, went bankrupt.
[SPEAKER_05]: Unlike Fiskor Inc., which built the ocean, Fiskor Inc.
[SPEAKER_05]: just got liquidated.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody bought up the assets and tried to keep the company going.
[SPEAKER_05]: Fiskar Automotive got acquired by a Chinese company called Langshang Group, which is a major Chinese supplier.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they have kept company more or less in business for the last fifteen years, or twelve years, twelve years since they bought it.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a twenty-twenty-three I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry, twenty-thirteen when they acquired it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they have continued to build cars based on the karma ever since then in very small volumes, but they're still there, they're still kicking.
[SPEAKER_05]: And last year they showed a new variant of this.
[SPEAKER_05]: They had been selling, they had been selling a modified version of the original karma as the karma Rivera.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the company is called karma automotive now.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they had the Rivera, which they were selling for a number of years.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then that transitioned into the GS-Six, which was a further modified version of that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now the latest iteration of the original karma is called the Gaia Serra, which when they first showed it, you know, it's got some styling updates to it, a new interior on it, compared to the original karma, a fiscar karma.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when they first showed it last year, they talked about it being all electric.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, as the market has shifted around a little bit, they have opted to, for at least for now, keep it as an extended range EV, which is what the original Fiscal Karma was the first really somewhat volume production E-REV.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it was, you know, it had at the time originally a GM, four-seater turbo, two-liter engine that was driving a generator and had a battery and a couple of electric motors driving the rear wheels.
[SPEAKER_05]: The engine was not in any way connected to the wheels and they still have that same basic power train architecture, although they don't really get much into specs
[SPEAKER_05]: on the new one but I'm guessing when I the last time that I drove one I drove a Rivera back in twenty nineteen they had switched from the the GM engine to a BMW one point five liter three cylinder turbo as the range extender engine and I'm guessing they're probably still using that because that engine is actually still available unlike the GM engine that they used to use
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, but when you look at this, you can clearly see the lineage, especially in the center section of the car to the original karma.
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you think of these updates?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it looks good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like how it looks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it makes for neat looking sedan.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I've caught the starting price in there right, it's like a hundred and sixty five thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, not for hundred sixty five thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the Ameris Emirates, I don't know who the mayor is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be next year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two hundred thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I. Five hundred sixty six horsepower for the, uh, they, uh,
[SPEAKER_05]: That's Sarah.
[SPEAKER_05]: However you're supposed to come to get Sarah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I Sarah works for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was, I was pronouncing it in my head.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: hundred sixty five thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: For a car from a company that is sort of in flux and I mean I don't think there is in the same kind of flux that fiscal the recent fiscal ink was in before it became fistic or done.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean it looks okay the pictures the limited number of photos that they have here it it's it's a pretty looking car it's
[SPEAKER_05]: The new interior is much better.
[SPEAKER_02]: The interior is better.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has a nice interior, nice and streamlined.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of those very clean EV style interiors that just doesn't have a lot of fessiness, you know, that can either look plain or they look sort of pleasantly uncluttered depending on your point of view.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like there's things to move the vent, Sam.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you look close up,
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's got eighty miles of electric range.
[SPEAKER_05]: I did before we started this morning.
[SPEAKER_05]: I went in and pulled up the sales numbers for karma automotive over the last four years.
[SPEAKER_05]: I see in in twenty twenty one they sold a hundred and two cars.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, in twenty two, they sold a hundred and ninety five.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, that's a big increase.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then in twenty three, they sold thirty nine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then last year it was fifty two.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's not really the direction over all you want your sales going.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, this is why they need to refresh it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Bring out the the guy Sarah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that this year is going to bump them back into the one hundredths?
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe you know you visit in August of twenty six so I made this a last year yeah we'll see I think it's a neat concept and but you know I think the challenge with the fiscal and just
[SPEAKER_02]: the brand has gone through so much and you know two companies with almost the same name and it's it's hard to get back what you've lost when you people feel like you've had a car not made it you know and to so even though it's not the company that actually went under the fiscal ink it still has a little bit of a black stain on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, although, you know, the basic design that Hendrick came up with back almost twenty, you know, probably eighteen years, seventeen, eighteen years ago now when they first showed it, you know, that basic design is actually holding up pretty well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's still still a good looking car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a, it was never designed that was the company's problem.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Design and style was not much everything else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything else.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that was never their problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, design, the design's still a good physical.
[SPEAKER_02]: Henrik can make a nice looking car.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, one, one last one from Monterey that I forgot about.
[SPEAKER_05]: I missed it here on the list.
[SPEAKER_05]: The, the Lexus Sport concept.
[SPEAKER_02]: Lexus Sport concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is a vehicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: Back in twenty twenty two Toyota first showed a concept called the GR GT three concept.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this was a concept for their next generation GT three race car.
[SPEAKER_05]: So currently in the GT three class sports car racing they run the RCF.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, that car is, you know, the RC's going away.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's, you know, kind of old now.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so the original GT-III concept was as long nose, front engine, car, pretty, pretty wild look and almost batmobile like.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they have been working since then to develop a production version that at the goodwood festival of speed last month.
[SPEAKER_05]: they had the race car and the production the road car wrapped in camel that were shown off at goodwood and now they're showing the road car in its you know in uncammed form you know they're calling this a concept but I think this basically is
[SPEAKER_05]: the new Lexus sports car.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is probably going to replace the LC and sort of a spiritual successor to the old LFA.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is going to be the basis for the new race car as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this car.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is pretty spectacular.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is such a good looking car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so sleek.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the all the random concepts and stuff we've been looking at today from on Ray and such.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my favorite.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just I just absolutely love how this looks from every angle too when you're looking at profile in from the front.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is such a pretty car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like it should be mean and fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just looks fabulous.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and the announcement says this progressively styled future focused yet truly authentic sports car signals the way forward for Lexus design.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there's elements of this.
[SPEAKER_05]: First of all, looks like they're moving away from the spindle grill.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which I was never a big fan of, so yeah, I'm not sorry about that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you still have, you know, this sort of all theme in the headlamps or the, you know, the daytime running lights anyway.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the, but some, you know, some of the design elements like the sharp crease in the side and the event behind the front wheels.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some of that, you know, we've already seen already in the new Lexus ES that's coming next year.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think, you know, there's more, you know, from this car, you know, that signals the direction of future Lexus models.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we're going to see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for that, I'm excited because I like how this looks and if the designers take this and incorporate it into some production vehicles, I would not be at all disappointed because I think this is a really just beautifully designed, very sleek looking sports car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just looks like what you feel like a sports car should look like right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, one last one that I want to get to.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a car that's going to be shown in a couple of weeks at the IA mobility show in Munich.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hyundai Ionic II.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another Ionic.
[SPEAKER_05]: Another Ionic, a baby Ionic.
[SPEAKER_01]: A baby Ionic.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wish they would sell this car in the US.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see, this isn't coming here.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to get this, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Probably not.
[SPEAKER_05]: Almost certainly not.
[SPEAKER_02]: because he's me with this kind of news now that I have to look at.
[SPEAKER_05]: But we do have listeners outside of North America.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay fine for you guys you're getting really cool car we can have.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, this is a little little four door hatchback or five door hatchback.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, tended to be very affordable.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I, I like this a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's a fun little car.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be honest.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't sell a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this is not a popular segment in here in the US.
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense that they're not bringing him here if they're not.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, if I lived in Europe, sure, it's really cute.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a fun looking little car.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would, I would drive a car like this here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying I wouldn't drive it.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I'm saying is the people.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't tend to buy this kind of car here.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_05]: They say it's expected to have the same or somewhere set up to the Kia EV-III, which we are getting early next year, which will have either a fifty eight point three kilowatt hour or eighty one point four kilowatt hour battery pack range of two hundred sixty seven or three hundred and seventy two miles.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're saying this is from AutoCar.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're saying that the price for the EV-II is expected to be about twenty-five thousand pounds, which if it were sold here in dollars would probably be somewhere in the mid-twenty thousand dollar range, like twenty-five, twenty-four, twenty-five thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe a little bit more than that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'd like what they've done with this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it looks really quite good.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're on a roll with their designs, so I'm liking what Hyundai's doing lately.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, we have one email this week.
[SPEAKER_05]: So let's see.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is from Rado, or Rado.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not quite sure I pronounce your name, sorry.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's know if you want to just another email, give me some guidance on pronunciation.
[SPEAKER_05]: As Robby said, some cars just have problems.
[SPEAKER_05]: There is a reason Toyota dealerships can't keep new cars on their lots.
[SPEAKER_05]: Estalantis has been topping the slowest selling cars, rankings in every category for the last, you choose how many years.
[SPEAKER_05]: Please don't talk about things you can't say or your opinion about.
[SPEAKER_05]: Every normal person would be done with the crap Nicole bought.
[SPEAKER_05]: You still are trying to tiptoe around the fact that cheap makes crappy cars.
[SPEAKER_05]: What I mean is this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nicole's car has been dead longer than has been undead.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do not think it has ever been alive.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just say it as it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: Stalantis cars suck or do not mention them.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been listening to Wilburring since its inception and been a fan of the podcast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Please get back to your roots and give us your unfiltered opinions.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know that we've necessarily been filtering our opinions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not filtering my opinion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've said very much that I am really sad that the cars having these problems and I expected to have some quirky issues going on with it because it's a Jeep and I knew that when I bought that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_02]: He have, and it's had problems often on since the minute we bought it and rust loves that thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He absolutely loves that thing, even with all of its quirks, the difference being that he's having quirks at his car still runs.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm having quirks and mine is dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has, it's actually like I said earlier in the podcast, it is running right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see what we're going to do with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think,
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're being harder than needs to be, like, like, stilantis has issues with with, um, when am I trying to say with quality?
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but it's not the first stilantis vehicle I've had.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've had their vehicles before.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a charger.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a Cherokee and, you know, we've,
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the vehicles, and I'm aware of the quality issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: But to be fair, I'll just add this in because I have been to several programs from other OEMs over the time that my car has been having troubles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my car has come up in a couple of those conversations.
[SPEAKER_02]: And uniformly, every single one of those automakers, every single one, has said, yeah, you know what the total battery is a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a problem, not for Jeep.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: They all have issues with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Last, do me just talk about it last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the Toyota, um, two days or I saw one Toyota and Subaru had an issue with a twelve volt battery.
[SPEAKER_05]: Almost every automaker has had twelve volt issues with exactly somewhere all of their EVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not what I'm tip to, if that's what you think I'm tip-toeing around.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a tip-toeing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more me trying to say, there's a legit challenge with EVs, with the twelve volt batteries.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's happened to enough automakers.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you bought a car, a Sam that was recalled, and the recall was fixed.
[SPEAKER_02]: They took it back and now you, and it was because of twelve volt batteries.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and I'm not, you know, that's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's Kia, that's Hyundai, that's Toyota, that's Subaru, that's Jeep.
[SPEAKER_02]: They all have problems with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think what I was trying to point out was that, yeah, this Jeep... Even Tesla has had issues... Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's not that I think that Jeep should be on the hook for it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, this car is absolutely not doing what it's supposed to.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think my point was, like, this twelve-volt thing is something, all the OEMs are having a little bit of trouble figuring out.
[SPEAKER_02]: None of them have really got it nailed.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's enough problems out there that it strikes you as sort of this, like, there's something we haven't quite figured out here yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's something, enough of them are having problems, enough to think about all the engineers, all the quality control, all the everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: At all of these companies, and yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not in-house to one company.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of an EV,
[SPEAKER_02]: thing that hasn't entirely been resolved.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and as you said, you know, the Kiwi VI, we bought a used EV VI just over a month ago.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I got a great deal on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the reason why I got such a good deal on it, you know, I'll be honest, I paid, they had eighteen and a half thousand miles on it, twenty twenty three EV VI.
[SPEAKER_05]: paid twenty four thousand dollars for it, which is about four to five thousand less than the typical price today right now for an EV six with that, you know, a twenty three EV six with that kind of mileage on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, typically they're going for about twenty seven to twenty nine for for that mileage.
[SPEAKER_05]: The reason why we got it for that price, you know, and I called it before we bought it, I called the dealer and said, you know, so what's the deal with this car?
[SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to know why why did it seem to be price so low?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, and he told me, you know, they have to, you know, they have to be on the title anyway and on the, the minority.
[SPEAKER_05]: you know that it was a it was a it was a buyback it was a lemon buyback the original owner had purchased it in twenty twenty three um had after some months similar to yours you know had the twelve-volt battery die you know had died on a couple times um and uh this is a problem that Hyundai Motor Group among many other automakers uh have had the similar issues uh and they had a recall
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to recall, the problem was found to be with the integrated charge control unit that manages charging of the high voltage battery, but it also handles charging, it has the DC to DC converter that takes those from your high voltage battery to your twelve volt battery.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there were some issues with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hyundai Motor Group redesigned it, they revamped it, and they have been doing a recall replacing the units on cars in the field.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I checked on the VIN number of the car that we ultimately ended up buying.
[SPEAKER_05]: It had had the ICCU replaced.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's why, and it also still had several years of warranty left on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, decided to take the chance on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it would be fine, you know, it's not our only car.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, you know, we took the risk of buying that and we got a fantastic deal on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so you're right, you know, Stalantis has had and particularly in the last few years has had some significant quality issues, but so is Ford.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, Ford, Ford has had something like ninety recalls since the beginning of this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were like holding the crown for the most recalls.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did like, you know, one month they had, like, there was one month where the number of recalls they had was insane.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they, you know, they've had to recall, you know, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: somewhere between one and two million vehicles because of cracked fuel injector and fuel injectors Toyota had a big recall on the tundra for the three point four liter twin turbo V-sixes that were failing in the tundra's and they're replacing all the engines and all of those trucks GM had a big recall on their six point two liter V-eight's
[SPEAKER_05]: So we don't talk a lot about recalls just because there are so many of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like practically a daily occurrence of his recall on some vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: The number of them that are out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's not, I think, like, I'm not trying to defend Stylantus, but saying that their vehicles are a crap because there's problems with this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then you could say that, you know, Sam's Kia Kia's crap.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could say that anybody who's ever had a problem with a vehicle, it's crap.
[SPEAKER_02]: To make it, like, that's the thing that automakers
[SPEAKER_02]: It says someone has a bad experience with a vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not indicative of every car, every owner, every experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can have good experiences and bad experiences with an automaker depending on the car and even depending on the one that you get.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can have one that's a lemon.
[SPEAKER_02]: That might be what the issue is going on with mine.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't really know, but I think it's just I would not say that Jeep makes crappy cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like jeeps.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll, I do like them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have their quirks.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have their challenges, but we've bought more than one.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the first one that we've really had significant issues with.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything else has been quirky, but like my, you know, Dodge is part of the Stylian Disbrand.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had my Dodge charger.
[SPEAKER_02]: I bought that in twenty ten.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I traded when I got this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I changed the tires.
[SPEAKER_02]: I may have fixed the brakes once and the battery a timer to over the course of fifteen years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like I just think I think that's too harsh.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't say any company just makes crappy cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that's harsh.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, we've had good and bad experiences with vehicles from multiple brands in our household, you know, and everybody said, everybody's every company's built lemons at various points in time.
[SPEAKER_05]: And as far as being, you know, unfiltered,
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we give pretty honest opinions.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know I do.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've gotten criticized for my opinions.
[SPEAKER_05]: We will continue to try and give honest opinions to the degree that we hedge on anything.
[SPEAKER_05]: it's it may be because we don't know we don't know what the root causes and if we can find out you know and if there's an explanation for an experience we had you know we will try we'll do our best to share that with you but you know we tried we do try to give you our honest opinions on everything we drive if I was really hedging you wouldn't know I'd had a problem with it that's yeah sure we wouldn't have talked about it at all
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have just said like that Sam and Robbie would know and you guys would have no idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I chose to say something.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just chose not to be that harsh because I feel like I'm never going to say.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because there are a lot of good aspects of the wagon your ass.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it except for the problem since I'm having with a twelve-voltness associated issues.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you know, as I was telling the caller earlier, we had a two thousand Volkswagen Passat wagon with the one point eight leader for cylinder turbo.
[SPEAKER_05]: We bought it in two thousand.
[SPEAKER_05]: That car spent more time in the shop and I spent more money on repairs on that engine than on any car I've ever owned in my life.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yet my wife loved driving that car.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we kept it for nine years despite all the problems.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what did we replace it with?
[SPEAKER_05]: Another Volkswagen.
[SPEAKER_05]: We bought a jet a TDI wagon with the quote unquote clean diesel.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you see, you're going to, and I've had, I had a Volkswagen Beetle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a, I had a Jetta once, and then I replaced it with a Beetle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I never had significant problems with either one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wouldn't have, you had a crappy experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't even mean it's, it's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: On that note, let's call it a show.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll talk to you all next time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Bye.