[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Lorhound's podcast, where the Lorhound's your guides to psycho-history.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm John.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is our coverage of Foundation on Apple TV+.
[SPEAKER_02]: Season three, episode six, The Shape of Time.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to get in contact with us, and we would love to hear from you, send an email, email, please, to empireatthelorhounds.com, or head to our Discord server for the link tree in the show notes where conversation flows very nicely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you like what you've heard and you want to support us directly and get ad free and bonus content, you can check the same link tree for our Patreon and supercast subscription options.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're back.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a few days after we recorded our episode five podcast and surprise, I had COVID all along.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for those of you following at home, my voice is still a little off, but I think it's mostly back now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's wanted to flag that, but we're doing okay now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you know, just, you know, getting the last touches back on ourselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you never want to know from the energy and the presentation less for the
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I try to keep it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just glad that your, you know, COVID isn't the rear of your mirror now for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in the rear view.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still lingering in the tunnel of my larynx.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I, I sound like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's get right into it, Marilyn, what did you think of the episode?
[SPEAKER_02]: I liked it very much.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, I have to say I liked it much better on this second viewing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I think this is probably because I had so many notions about what direction they might be heading into the end of the last episode, which was a real cliffhanger.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, two or three cliffhangers, if you will.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so having to discard so many of my ideas and keep up with the important points at the same time, made it an episode that felt a little bit jumbled for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: when it really was my mind that was jumbled.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it wasn't the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: So having watched it a second time, I think it's a great episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The music just gets better and better.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love the imagery of my kitchen.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're doing such wonderful things with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mushroom shapes and the puff ball lights and song words day core.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just beautiful, beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that realization of the open-year market
[SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not that I've ever been to an Asian Open Your Market, but still, that general feel is just, it's all terrific.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what about you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am more and more confident in my theories.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we are pointing right towards it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those of you who have read the books, you know what I'm talking about, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Marilyn, you suggested this and I haven't even responded to you off air, but I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We should do a spoiler, a book spoiler podcast towards the end of the season or maybe at the end of the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think all of us who do know the books are kind of, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's all that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, look at this, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there were there was also a Demosel clue and a Demosel identity clue from the book in this and I think that was really interesting too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just feels so faithful in tone and type of mystery and storytelling to the asthma books while still making a lot of changes to make it more modern and to make it a more coherent story with similar characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: The same character is going through the experiences instead of changing every season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they are really nailing the adaptation still and I'm so pleased with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and also like, I really love all the chemistry between the actors of season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially the new actors.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Beta and Torin are a really amazing addition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, even Randy facing off against Inber is really fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's, that's a fun little duo.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, uh, it's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: He hasn't gotten much to do this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not that much to say about in this episode, but I'm enjoying him when he is around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I am too.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't have a whole lot to work with in this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's mostly just like, hey, I'm not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Get right, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: With general sarcasm as needed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, general sarcasm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, well, I think let's get right into the breakdown.
[SPEAKER_01]: We start off with a cold open with the mule.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said a cold open, I think it was actually after the credits, but a short open, let's say, with the mule awakening from a nightmare, saying, for years, he has felt like he has been wearing someone else's dreams, and that he has been haunted by gel-dornic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who he now knows, the name of.
[SPEAKER_01]: He orders the black tongue ready immediately.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that was the quote unquote gift he said that on Richard gave him.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, apparently even as the meals giving gal nightmares, gal's given the meal nightmares.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's, um, yeah, like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very Harry Potter and Voldemort, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it could also reinforce a theory that you and I have been holding on to for quite some time now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I think especially if you separate the two causes of what he's saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: About Gale and the dreams.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, uh, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's I think Gale is actually a red herring here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to say more than that because I know that's that's too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I I'm I'm so pleased with how there I know people have beef with this mule.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see it all over our discord and I see it on blue sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see it on Reddit, but I really think that they are going an interesting direction with this view all that we are not privy to yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and that maybe part of why he is presenting the way he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, stay tuned again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Book readers, you'll probably know what we're
[SPEAKER_02]: thinking, right, hinting at, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they could pull the rug out from under us.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they are, they are such good storytellers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love as a mouse creativity.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that he first thought of so many of these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I gotta say he's just not always the best storyteller.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right, you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is, this is just wonderful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they keep putting in all these little obmages.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's one section I'll talk about later.
[SPEAKER_02]: They actually woke the book practically word for word.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, it's a very loving adaptation or almost variations on a theme or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's, yeah, really, really enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, I mean the end of this episode, and we'll get to that later, but the end of this episode was like pretty note for note from the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's not much to say about this other than we know where the meal went from here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have to speculate.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's go right into what I'm calling, and I have to be very careful about my enunciation here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: The metallic and the metallic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was really proud of myself with that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: You should be.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is worth being proud of.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dimmer cell tells Gail that Dawn is dead and demands to know why he had to die.
[SPEAKER_01]: While being choked, Gail reveals the second foundation and her visions of the mule.
[SPEAKER_01]: Demmer cell uses her previous abilities as an interrogator to see into Gail's mind as she views the mule, but makes her go farther.
[SPEAKER_01]: There in the darkness, she senses a subhuman hearing frequency of a black hole, meaning Gail will be orbiting a black hole in four months.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a sobering thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: So does that mean I mean different sci-fi, we don't really know how black holes behave up close, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause we've never seen anything close to a black hole.
[SPEAKER_01]: But different sci-fi will do different things and it seems like this one is choosing to do one where like you're just infinitely in nothingness forever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: in this iteration, our black hole supposed to swallow all the stars in space and everything, and why is it swallowed you, and why are you still conscious?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but this has to do with Dusk's weapon, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it must have to do with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really think it must.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really think it must, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they called it a black hole bomb basically, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason that those two have been mentioned.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, which also leads to some interesting speculations as to what extent does school be, you know, stepping back to the central throne or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right through own excuse me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, Deborah Zell is clearly some vest that Donna's dead and insists that to Gale, but she loved him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, which is interesting and so her, opening question new gal is not what you would call gentle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one big reveal here, um, all the way back to season one when her, her first standing trial.
[SPEAKER_02]: Demreselle saw the value of the foundation for the empire's survival, which we heard about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And previous episodes, this is why she decided to destroy this garbage.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, they revealed it number two.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was giving him data.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just really fascinating.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she still didn't know the existence of the second foundation, only of what she called unknown variables that were causing shadows in the math.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I just pat myself with the shoulder and say, yeah, I predicted that.
[SPEAKER_02]: When the first time we hear her say there are shadows in the math, I thought.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if that's in the second foundation.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was creeping around and tweaking things here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what else is interesting is I really liked this idea that, you know, she was feeding him data for the model because he didn't have enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we are now in a world of generative AI, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that is the new hype thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And regardless of how you feel about it, you know, the way this works is they have to train the models on data sets.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's really interesting to think of a similar setup in this futuristic, prime, radiant AI thing, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: This object, which is that one of the same time beautiful and impenetrable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that Gail figures out a magnificent justification to give to an Android for the reason for having the second foundation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a protective redundancy.
[SPEAKER_02]: just like the clients, something that any good engineer always builds into any system.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, is that speaking right to an Android or what?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Gail is very smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've never questioned the Gail is smart.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she also describes to diversale her own experience on her very first hyperspace jump with the spacers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a real throwback.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I love the way she describes her experience by saying she could see time as a line, and then as a space, and then something that she could fold and bend around herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And wow, didn't that get my mind spiraling into it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what is time?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, how does this work?
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, unfortunately, she kind of goose by saying to them as, I don't think literally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, click the spacer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe too big of an ask here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, to an Android.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need David Tenon and you're going wibbly wobbly, timey, why make sure that would help them result enormously.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just love that description.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm also done beginning to wonder if we might see spaces again in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't that be nice?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think they could do a really interesting thing with that now that they are like,
[SPEAKER_01]: not involved in the main story.
[SPEAKER_01]: You said this season?
[SPEAKER_01]: I do, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there could be a really interesting, like, what did the spacers do after that whole thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the initial presentation is, well, they just pulled off by themselves and to their own perception of universe, galaxy, whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But since we are rapidly losing all forms of hyperspace travel, being made.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they will come back and say, yeah, all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: but we'll help you guys out here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I, can I just say I really wish that they hadn't made demos, else probing devices?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, spectacular.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, why not?
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk about the ultimate sinus headache.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: But lower it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But doesn't it kind of make sense to like if you were going to get into the nerves of like you're hearing like, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it would look like, I'm sure it would and I didn't look at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That didn't bother me at all and I'm usually pretty squeamish.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I didn't watch it the first time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had, well, some people have more of a thing about tentacles and others, maybe, you know, as soon as she started talking, I thought, I know exactly, which is, particularly she said, it is not pleasant.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, I'll just bet it isn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Gale's wretched and choking and all that, you know, the first time I just like, no, I don't, because I was eating my lunch.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's part of the problem too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really loved when she goes, when Gale says, I'll need to feel like I'm drowning and she goes, that won't be a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: That won't be a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: That will be quite easy, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So through this, Demers, I'll actually perceive this confrontation that we've been seeing on repeat loop for all three seasons so far.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she perceives that it's happening in the Imperial Library on Trans-Tor.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a really big piece of information now as to, you know, the Mules, Mules, and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And supposedly she will be rotating that black hole in four months.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then results hypothesizing this from its infrasonic signature.
[SPEAKER_02]: So of course I had to go online to find out that an infrasonic signature.
[SPEAKER_02]: is an identifiable pattern of sin that occurs far below the range of human hearing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Rockets blasting off earthquakes, volcanoes, tidal waves, avalanches, waterfalls, lightning, and other events can cause them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted to know, is this something that they made up?
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, this is an actual thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I think our human range is actually pretty limited.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's two hurts to like, like, twenty thousand hearts, something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what Mark never mind the music?
[SPEAKER_01]: I called on you last episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right in with the range of human hearing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Help us out here, Mark.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or I could just Google it, but, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nah, not now.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also like the way a Gale explains the meal and I are both outliers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the mass seems to break when you factor us into the future, especially my future.
[SPEAKER_02]: and that she can pull parts of your future towards herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Demiselle just doesn't seem to buy it, which is unfortunate.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's not convinced that Gail's visions can be trusted as genuine visions and could very well be hallucinations, but at least she's sufficiently content with her visit to leave Gail alive, which, you know, that's the greatest of her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of their scenes together, we're jumping around, by the way, we're pulling all the material together for each sort of group rather than going scene-messing-messing-messing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now we're, you know, towards the end where she hears, quote unquote, that the new foundation has been captured by the meal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, Gail was trying, frankly, to get in touch with Pritch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, I don't think that's going to go very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she's I wonder.
[SPEAKER_01]: So is that the necklace?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's the necklace probably that lights up, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's an interesting thought.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we thought about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: She just pulls out a little round.
[SPEAKER_02]: Crystaly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it might be the necklace.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's his bad signal.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, can she do that sort of thing with the crystal sheet took from her cheeks?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe it isn't the crystal sheet took from her cheeks, who knows?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But somebody said they looked at an image and they could see six indentations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: In a close up of the leather pouch, so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did, by the way, look up the human hearing range.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is twenty hertz to twenty killer hertz.
[SPEAKER_01]: So twenty hertz to twenty thousand hertz.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's exactly what you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I said two hertz at first, but that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was off by eighteen hertz.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really hurts.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you're thinking, now I'm thinking if that is what she's communicating to Gale, then
[SPEAKER_02]: Precise sometime partner is going to get privy to the fact that, um, A, there's a scale out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: B, this communication is coming from nowhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if that's going to lead to some kind of a, a leak to the first foundationers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That the second foundation, um, this, because that isn't true in this universe of this story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Embers going to be like, what the devil do you want from me?
[SPEAKER_02]: if he survives.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not having high hopes for inverse arrival.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I mean, he's so bundling and incompetent that if he survived without any of his advisors, they'd probably wouldn't be all that much of a challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I feel like the mules is quite a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get rid of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is very brutal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a slave of rulers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: His guillotine is, you need frequent sharpening.
[SPEAKER_02]: somehow I doubt it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a constantly, constantly sharp device.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am very excited about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And anything else for this this confrontation between Demoson Gail?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I do have a speculation which I put at the end, but I can bring in now if you like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the whole exchange in which she talks about, you know, when Gale first comes to, or after that's after their final vision when they both met kind of shocked back into reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Demerzo has to do the, not the highlight, but, you know, she has to do the pumping and the breathing and whatever to bring Gale back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Demersel says that tells Gail, no, you didn't die, your heart just stopped beating.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which, you know, all right, Android view with the world, maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, it is true, obviously because they restarted the heart and she was fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking back to how Demersel described Dawn as being dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she believes it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because she was, as I say, she was furious.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet, she says, all his systems shut down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, and then it's not responding, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'd stop responding.
[SPEAKER_02]: And by almost it's similar phrasing, she says, your heart just stopped being.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a system shutting down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, maybe I'm reaching too far.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just seems to be this big mystery and a lot of people are talking about it on her discord, about, well, it's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still around, or is he not?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if Demorsel says she's dead, that's probably a pretty good indicator, but I mean, and she even be wrong sometimes, but I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and also people, you, just to be clear, you mentioned on the discord, they're discussing episode five still because they haven't seen episode six.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they haven't heard Demorsel say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Say that, say that he's dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that you could be right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Dawn could be alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I kind of would like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I, you know, we already had a dog float out into space and die.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't, I wouldn't be devastated if this dog died.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would, I would like to see him again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he was a really interesting incarnation of Don.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's an interesting parallel here between day and dimmer cell.
[SPEAKER_02]: They both think they love someone.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if they really do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: How can that actually be genuine?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, especially with day because he's such a weird situation, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like every person he's ever, you know, concubined with has how their memory was wiped.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I was pretty shocked about, no, let's wait till talk about day.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be there next.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's take a quick break before we head over to Micogen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back and ready to talk about Micogen.
[SPEAKER_01]: After buying some primo drugs, Dave is its song and gives for them to her as a piece offering.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells her he knows about the inheritance and tries to give her all her memories back, but she refuses.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, she calls her partner in the two of them detained day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I like to call this day's big Micogen adventure.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a fun time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the first time we get to see
[SPEAKER_01]: Other than in a very controlled environment, a day off of Trentor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess we, I guess with the whole, you know, religious journey that he went on in season one, but even then I feel like that's the whole pretty controlled environment.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was even then he was still Empire.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think now he is Empire in the eyes of all the migrants, certainly.
[SPEAKER_02]: right, but I'm not sure that he sees himself that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I saw him as a backpacker on the hippie trail in South Asia, the Apostle leaving Kathmandu and see Rick Steve's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, hey, though, I mean, I mean, the slopes of Mount Everest are littered with many people like that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Although I don't know if they had the same kind of shades anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't really go whenever the top with his appearance in my opinion, but it's not bothering me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am too.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, I don't think those are drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: No?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think they were sweets because the sweet seller's pitch for her wears was an exact quote taken directly from Prelude to Foundation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is no sense in that at all that these are drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just remarkably delicious sweets from some of the best kinds of whatever fungi or whatever it is they're using.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the high quality stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: They tend to let, you know, they export the lesser stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Primo stuff is what I was saying, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but not the stuff of drugs, the stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, food.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think, dear listener?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it was drugs?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it was food?
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't write in empire at thelorhons.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get the debate going.
[SPEAKER_01]: The great primo substance debate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think the sweet seller recognized his face immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very hard to hide.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's, he's not even a dust, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he is, he's a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the middle throne.
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy who they put on all the posters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the coins, the one that I've got.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all of the damage to her face would suggest to me that she was an active participant in various forms of resistance and recent years.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, she would definitely recognize this this individual with all of this really bizarre trappings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh empire.
[SPEAKER_02]: The empire.
[SPEAKER_02]: Day is so out of his depth with any sort of wooing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can almost feel sorry for him if it wasn't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it wasn't a little genocidal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Creepy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's creepy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I love how deathly and absolutely song holds her ground against, you know, days tries to, you know, did you ever wonder why I kept you on so long?
[SPEAKER_02]: If your response is, maybe it's ego.
[SPEAKER_02]: Game set and match.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was really interesting because song seemed so genuine in those scenes with day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That it is shocking to see because presumably she had all her memories of her partner, you know, of her life on Micogen in Micogen.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she was acting really well in that whole thing with day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think she elusive a little bit later on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's shocking because he's like, oh, if you sense anything, it was out of fear, but like, was it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or was it something genuine?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it might have actually been genuine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate your romantic nature, John.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really thinking very highly of everyone in the show, and I should.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's something wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I try to be the same things myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even, you know, when day says that he actually recovered songs memories to bring back to her, you know, my first response was, oh, maybe he really does feel something like love for her, but I think really the underlying motivation is he wants her to remember.
[SPEAKER_02]: all that love so that you know anything can be quote unquote like it used to be right and I have to say if he truly loved her then he would let her go if that's what she wanted yeah the only time her interest peaks at all and anything he has to say is when he mentions that she encountered a robot right which of course would be a huge thing for anybody who's in in the inheritance
[SPEAKER_02]: And another interesting point, Song had asked to keep her memories while she was still remembering everything about their liaison.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess that really moved day because he tells her, you looked at me and saw a person who might do you a kindness.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: for what purpose, you know, I find myself wondering, could Song have been a plant of some kind?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, the Micogen plant, but you know, that's my plant.
[SPEAKER_02]: Trying to get some kind of information or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, she doesn't really talk much about how she was chosen.
[SPEAKER_02]: She just says, well, you know, I was there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was, you chose me and, and so on and so on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when she rejects having the memories back, she says she doesn't wish to remember the business arrangement.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that, I mean, clearly she didn't come in with love from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if this is how she is proceeding at now, I think
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, just to say for own life, she had to comply.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if she could see that he for whatever reason felt that he was falling in love with her, she would feed that, even as she fed him drugs, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And later on, when Dances, you loved me, you did.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just sounds like a little child to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Trying to give in to himself for somebody else.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I guess this is the first time that I really do have genuine passion for day and all of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, can't go so far as to say, yes, this is love.
[SPEAKER_02]: Infatuation for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: The closest he can come to love because of his life experience is probably.
[SPEAKER_02]: But once her life mate comes into the room, I just love song's declaration.
[SPEAKER_02]: My full name is songbird seventeen.
[SPEAKER_02]: and I do not belong to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I ever told you I'd love to, it's because I was scared of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never could have loved you.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Ocean Glass, forty-nine.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mike drop a three million loud cheers.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way she stands up for herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way she just has this strong certainty.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when she feels that she's not going to be able to handle on her own, she calls in reinforcements who very definitely can handle it in the form of her lifemate, Ocean Glass.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the name Ocean Glass.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love Sea Glass.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love picking it up any time I was walking along a beach, which also makes me wonder, Ocean Glass.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a traditional name, a family name, presumably going back main generations.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where the heck is there an ocean on a train tour?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking the same thing like ocean glass is quite the name to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm still very thrown off by the numbers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had messages you like, is this a robot thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they robots too?
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we have certain, you know, ideas or impressions in our minds.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least they didn't have like an R in front of their name, like in the in the robot series for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_02]: You right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right as a mouth.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, to have your leading family be called Sunmaster.
[SPEAKER_02]: When when was the last time anybody saw genuine Sun?
[SPEAKER_02]: On Twitter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Outside of the Imperial Palace.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: These names, I think, reach back to a very deep history on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, mentioned before, last episode about how Mike Egin was just one layer of city, and there was others just built successfully on one on top of the other.
[SPEAKER_02]: They know how he talk as much about the domes in this adaptation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the original series, a tranche was covered by domes, and it just was sort of a haphazard thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: First, one area built a dump around themselves, and then another, and another.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can still go up top side if you want to, though most Trentorians, you know, really want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much, find it little too spooky.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's still signs of life there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's dust that blows around and gives enough space for some four pathetic seas to take root.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's an interesting conception, which I think rightly for this series, they don't really investigate because it's not essential to their plot and to the story that they're telling.
[SPEAKER_02]: But my understanding is that outside the imperial grounds, there's nowhere on this planet surface that has access to the sky and to natural lighting.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just have to dip to go away at the top.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this whole micro-gen area, I think is the coolest biome that we've gotten this season of foundation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even last season, I thought that most of what we got was very standard, you know, tattooing fair kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this season, I'm really liking this micro-gen stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: This feels the closest thing that I've seen in any other fiction is in the Elder Scrolls games.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of mushroomy type of
[SPEAKER_01]: Fauna, fine, sorry, Flora, rather.
[SPEAKER_01]: Around.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, maybe there's mushroom animals too.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: That could that could be a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think that's the closest thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, check out our Skyrim episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't episode on Skyrim.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you back in the day on the lower-downs played me in Brandon.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to hear about all that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Black from Chay think is the area we talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, I really like, I really like a nice big mushroomy.
[SPEAKER_01]: area in a science fiction or fantasy area.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really find myself wondering about day's final outcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's still alive when we leave this whole scene, but there's ocean glass saying, clear on the first almost wiped out our people, that will never happen again.
[SPEAKER_02]: And day kind of pathetically response, I have this face like I can do nothing about, you know, it wasn't me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't think that's going to be very convincing.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I do think what we'll be not convincing, but save him for at least an interrogation.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be the idea of you saw a robot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's going to be a saving grace for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: When never so hungry gets around to putting it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I find myself wondering, was this why Demresel decided that this particular iteration of day was no longer going to trouble them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because she knew full well.
[SPEAKER_02]: what the micogenians would think about a day actually showing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: What ever is going on?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to waste any energy killing him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'll hook you, he'll get killed himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Particularly since he's ditched his nanites and and his aura bracelet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, he doesn't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Defense list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the first time in his life.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been defense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think that's going down very well either.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just kind of bewildered with the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I have to do a start saying, I know a robot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe that, as you say, that will preserve him at least long enough to give forth all that he knows before they kill him in a really painful way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I did find myself wondering, well, was songbird infiltrated into the Gossom record intentionally?
[SPEAKER_02]: Have they already heard rumors that there was a robot?
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was sent to explore them out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's someone who kind of pushes him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she gets him hooked on drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: She gets him hooked on drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's saying, you know, why do you keep referring to her as an it?
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, at the crucial moment, she says, look, if the world is going to end in four months, why keep secrets any longer?
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, as I'm talking about this with you, I'm something hanging.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there was a bit more intention to having her go on the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and maybe that's why she was so pushy about keeping her memories, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet now that she has the option to get the back, she does not want them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what's going to happen is she's not going to want them back because she doesn't want to remember her infidelity and she doesn't want to remember any kind of, she, it seems like she genuinely perceives this as like a sex slavery thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what else would you call it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that you're right in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's very possible that within the situation they formed a genuine connection, but it doesn't change the origin of it, and it doesn't change what it was in the end, which was a business transaction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a connection that's only the kind of connection which is possible between two people or have such disparate power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was never going to be, no, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was never going to be okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she on the outside of it is like, I don't want to relive that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's obviously horrific to even think about for her and you don't blame her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what's going to happen is either her partner or somebody higher up is going to say we need that intel and he won't give it to us until you put the memories on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think I have to think that Ocean Glass was in on it from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if their life partners, what's she doing winding around in such a fashion that, you know, the imperial spotters for inhabitants of the Gotham record are going to even see her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: She had to put herself out in some fashion because she still doesn't look like most of the other denizens on Micogen.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think apartment she lives in is so glorious and I mean that there's there are depths with in depths here layers upon layers and I hope we get to see more of them right I think that you know
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a very difficult emotional situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, song is really not going to want to remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be other people with different agendas that want her to remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think she's going to be pretty traumatized about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just just for song, song was indentured.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now is being forced to relive it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that sucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have to hope that she volunteered for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there was some agency involved, but... Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They couldn't necessarily count on him bringing the memories to her though.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, you know, all of that is kind of sketchy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of a throughline plot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe her part of her training beforehand was like ask an ask and ask and ask about your memories.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do your best to let them keep the memories.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they don't send a lot of people there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this was like a thing where they didn't know how strict it was with wiping memories.
[SPEAKER_02]: Possibly.
[SPEAKER_02]: You think that kind of gets around after a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: Much depends on what circles she moves in.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you know this, if you're an emperor and you're going on the menu of women that you have, are you going to pick somebody from east town?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's highly unlikely.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was saying, too, is like, I don't think that a lot of micro-genyens, micro-genyens, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think a lot of micro-genyens get sent up there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't think so, it's only because, as you say, you know, oh, he's people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this was the first time that they tried something like this, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?
[SPEAKER_02]: Could be, could be, even dust calls are the yeast woman, or whatever it is, she calls her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can see why you jumped immediately to drugs now when you saw the candies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, of course, she kept giving them the mushroom puffers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then mushrooms everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, yeah, and they may well just leave that whole thing ambiguous and not ever explain it to us, but I definitely saw it as sweets just simply.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's fine either way, but yeah, I do too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do too.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, ready to talk about the mallos.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Torin and Beta lead to be allowed on new terminus, eventually succeeding and being locked up on planet.
[SPEAKER_01]: They finally convince Inber to listen to the Vizzi sonor, and Rando and Inber realize they must work together against the Mule.
[SPEAKER_01]: The group heads to the vault where Harry seldom appears and begins discussing the civil war between the traders and the foundation as if it has already happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: when asked about the meal, he becomes confused.
[SPEAKER_01]: The meal appears, destroying the foundation of ships in the sky, Harry seldom expels them all, and the attendees all attempt to escape.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this adheres very closely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: To the original story.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was really nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: See it visually realized so richly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was a little worried they weren't going to be able to do this scene because I think it's one of the best scenes in the book, honestly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was worried that we're going to be able, we're going to be able to do it because part of the drama is Harry and the book is his recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he's just going on and on about the Civil War and then everybody just starts arguing and it's like, Oh, what do you mean it's Civil War?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God, we have it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm straight now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We messed up the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why isn't he talking about the mule?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think without the recording, I mean, this is, this is basically the same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he starts to feel more and more like it recording.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because at this point, you realize that he's flawed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The whole ram is flawed.
[SPEAKER_02]: The whole, you know, the whole plan is going off in a cop chat, which is not a comforting feeling if you have been resting on the comfort that, oh, well, even in the worst times,
[SPEAKER_02]: to Harry I already first saw it, he has a plan, he'll take care of it all, and yeah, which isn't a healthy way for society to continue to grow and develop.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I liked the way the actor played the art of liking on his name, that Harry was clearly in control of it all, and I love his dissing of Inber, his ghosting, basically, it's like, yeah,
[SPEAKER_02]: You're one of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Turn away.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Important people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But his face just went absolutely blank.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I could almost hear him thinking this does not compute.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not compute.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not compute.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was to my mind when he appeared to be his most holographic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which as you say, different from the books because in the books he doesn't even know if anybody is coming to listen to it or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does not that the recordings do not interact with the people who are listening to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas this is far more interesting and far more interactive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And and in some cases, crazy's happened and nobody came in the books.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm talking about before this point in the books like the second there were there were kind of like intermediary crises and it was just a different organization of it, but you know like they just wouldn't go see the vault and nobody even knew if Harry came
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they felt things were trucking a lot grand nicely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think again, compression fruit for the visual storytelling.
[SPEAKER_02]: They only want to have three crises at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't need all this other one.
[SPEAKER_01]: One crisis perceived things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was nice to see Tore and at least partially closed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, man, so this shirt was making me laugh when he's in the ship because he's got sleeves finally, but the middle is cut out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're like, does this give you any protection or warmth or anything or is this just, what is the point of this?
[SPEAKER_02]: And for my perspective, Inland makes him potentially more interesting, which women have known for centuries, you know, you don't flaunt at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, make it look like it might fall apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a fun guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I do too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's terrific.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to some degree that that whole posturing as part of his persona.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was a, I was thinking, oh dear, when I heard beta-telling, Magnifico, you and I can both make people love us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the line went when they're approaching determinists and he's having the conversation and he says, I like being famous, but this feels like being important and beta response.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, Tory, famous and important of the same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in their wedding house, remember?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Han, they might have thought that Han picture was a name to conjure with since Han kind of hold them into all this, more asked to begin with.
[SPEAKER_02]: On the one hand, it did keep them from being exploded, but, you know, it also got them thrown in jail.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, on balance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they do get released at a certain point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess, because they have the influence, the emotional influence, at least, of the busy sonar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, again, it's a question, you know, Tom convinces Inver to take them into his office and hear them out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was it just he?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there was any music playing at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that the convincing was with the busy son or later.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're too big and missing because they are at each other's sorts before that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all they do is, I mean, Torin does do the whole, you know, just hear us out for a minute and find me, we'll hear you out for a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: What they need it to do is like, you know, drop their arms and point them towards the other enemy, the common enemy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when Inber wants to pull back to pick about on his own,
[SPEAKER_02]: Magnifico response, I don't come without my lady, her pet, and you can do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you know, I can see where he might figure that my lady would be more comfortable if torn were around.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when is torn gonna finally get the respect he deserves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on, her pet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, he's a little pet like he's a little pet like with her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I also wonder why Magnificole wanted Ranu to come along.
[SPEAKER_02]: Since Ranu was the one who was stirring up so much trouble, so much at the time, and if he wants a calm scene, a prosperous voyage, why is he just saying, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just, you know, the three of us Ranu can stay here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I have my suspicions as to why, and I suspect you probably do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I really enjoyed watching this whole scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this was absolutely incredible and incredible adaptation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't love the mule just like grinning from the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I could have known that that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, like, you know, you got to show the villainy somehow and they sure did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's part of a theme, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you think about more and more how we're seeing this dude,
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, didn't work for now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was, I just thought it was so touching that Torin truly helped the belief that as long as we have the busy son or we can defend ourselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sweet summer child.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess Inber is not quite as stupid as he seems, unless it's simply videos where it gets to African in which I rather suspect.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or he's being manipulated.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he does figure out that Han is working for somebody else, partly because Han knew about the meal before anybody else did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But also, Han forgot to wipe his, um, his mileage counter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I actually, I think it wasn't the mileage kind of, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the amount of fuel left.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't get gas before he came back.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he didn't get gas up again.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to fill up the tank.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: You always have to return the rental car with the full tank.
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably the consequences will not be quite as dire, but still, usually good plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, Han is just a consummate.
[SPEAKER_02]: smooth talker, you know, when inverse saying so, what is your loyalty's lie?
[SPEAKER_02]: Who are these people that you're seeing?
[SPEAKER_02]: And he says, I only worked for the seldom plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And probably a very important thing for everybody to remember.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, of course, we're sure we define that the seldom plan as they know it is shattered in pieces around this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the last of Evidently Inver is as stupid as he seems because he's the one who decides to have a difficult play to all the troops so that you can't control them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course I wonder was he influenced to make that decision anyways?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, something's going on here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Either Magnifico is not as powerful as the Mule or a Magnifico was on the side of the Mule.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because being the Miele's, you know, clown quote unquote, they already showed us that he has to be staying the Miele's good side, or he gets physically abused.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, also, I mean, part of this was just, it was the no field, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could have been the people on the ground where I'm being affected at all by the Miele, it was, or by Magnifico even, it was just the no field, making everybody run away.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that could be too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I found the new term is look interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they were coming out of the buildings and it did remind me of New York City, but I suppose any time I see any tall buildings that look like skyscrapers.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what's going to come into my mind first, because I grew up in our outside New York City.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when in there are a lot, all the well was growing up, but I found that pilgrimage to the opening of the vault very well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And bear's music definitely, it's that feeling.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what really touched me was seeing the flags planted along the path.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then wondering, are these now holy relics from the childhood of Polybaricoth?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we saw them in the first season, remember the kids would plant flags as to how far they got into the null field before they collapsed?
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, here's this path up to the bolt, and it's lined with these flags.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I really liked that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was an interesting touch I noticed the second watching.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a suggestion of elaborate in the ground around the vault.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember if that was true from earlier iterations, it could be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But maybe, I mean, I will say, I don't think these would have been polys flags, just because they had to leave regular terminus and quite a hurry, so I don't think with he or he will bring any of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: They could bring everything else, why not some flag?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, I just told they were going to win the first thing they picked.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the original one might not be that maybe he always carried it on his person who knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's probably still a thing that the no-field's still there, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sure the kids are like, how far can you go?
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: This looks a little more serminal, though.
[SPEAKER_02]: If not actually hierarchical, because it was flagged or flagged or flagged or flagged or flagged along the set path.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe to go up to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They weren't at different distances from the vault at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: I loved the characterization of how these two factions within the foundation are functioning.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a hollow hair, you know, that the traders are too disciplined in the mayors are too authoritarian.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it really, they did that moment very well when everybody realizes that hollow hair is no knowledge or understanding of who or what the fuel is.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that moment when he says, what is the fuel?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as they realized that Harry didn't know, they were like, Oh, my.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, you base your entire existence around this guy's plan, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And now exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's part of the ongoing theme of this, is how do you provide enough assurance to a society without making them so self-assured that they stop growing and challenging themselves and moving ahead?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that was a basic foundational principle of psychohistory that population needed to be put into a situation of pressure.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that they would be urged just not actually forced along a path of greater creativity to solve problems that they might not otherwise have gotten around to.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's how it was in the early days.
[SPEAKER_02]: But lately, obviously, if you have hereditary mayors and whatnot, yeah, authoritarian for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the foundation growing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it changing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it coming out when new technology?
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, when challenges come along, but they're just kind of flat their hands and say, oh, well, seldom plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't need to think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which again, very, very true to the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people will say, I need to help the seldom plan along.
[SPEAKER_01]: Others will say, uh, solid plan will work out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, seldom helps those who help themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Didn't, didn't somebody actually quote that in this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Besides.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've heard somebody say that recently, so it helps those who help themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, or maybe it was because I'm reading the series.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it might be in the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I recognize that, but I think it might be a book thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Any other thoughts?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that this whole planet is screwed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess what my biggest thing is, Gale completely underestimated the people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gale was like, I'll make a trap for him and it'll be fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Mule said, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even if Gale had gotten, had lured him to Trantor, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like the mule could have just dealt with the foundation whisperships anyway by, you know, making them kill each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that is sort of the question of how his influence works.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does he have to be present?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the vis-a-soner seems to be very totally connected to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But clearly, the range has to be quite large to be able to get all these ships attacking each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, but remember,
[SPEAKER_02]: in-board-ordered Magnifico to play the Visitsana in the hearing and to broadcast this to all of his officers and, you know, to you think Magnificos in on it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we know that Magnificos music influences people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the question is how much is Magnifico, how much is the meal?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, you know, we saw in the dance hall that people who were there, Mohan, in particular, of course, perceived that the music wasn't just this great stuff to rock out on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was having an effect on the people who heard it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Marilyn, we're going to do a post credits this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for now, hold all your thoughts on the mural.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... for then and for for now let's just talk quickly about what's coming on the network will be back next week with another episode of foundation for now you can check out alien earth is out the night we're recording this so david uh... maybe by the time this comes out who already have an alien earth episode out if not within a couple days
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's going to be doing that with a slew of guest hosts, so that'll be a lot of fun if you're in the alien universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know Alicia and John just did fantastic four and the Eternot.
[SPEAKER_01]: They also did Superman, so check out all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've got peacemaker coming too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So stay tuned for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alicia and Aaron are going to be covering it together.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if John's on that with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: He might be on that with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we'll say, we'll say stay tuned for more news on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also hear on the subscriber feed, which is Patreon Supercast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Five bucks a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get, I think we have like almost a hundred extra episodes on there now that you don't get in the free feed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's been three years, so we do at least like two a month now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you can check out heat.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Alicia and David did heat as are eleven's easiest month.
[SPEAKER_01]: They mercifully left me off it while I had COVID also because I had very little interest in that movie and they went on for almost three hours about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's really hours of bonus content.
[SPEAKER_01]: In addition to I think a couple hours on tacos with second breakfast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So check all that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the affiliate feeds, if you want more Marilyn, check out rings and rituals if you have not already.
[SPEAKER_01]: And add that to your backlog and catch up on rings of power, season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also check out Nevermind the music.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been poking fun at Mark, but he runs a great podcast with Nicole and they go into music and psychology.
[SPEAKER_01]: All day long, every Tuesday, new episode, who's this?
[SPEAKER_02]: I just ran, I just listened to what is now in this time their most recent episode dropped.
[SPEAKER_03]: And finally it was about people who knew it was the unworthy convert backerack.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, okay, yeah, I know these, I can sing along.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just felt what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great sense of relief.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's finally something I can really dig into.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was great, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're really, they're really great.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've got a good thing going.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: check out to the other affiliates radio active ramlings doing their fallout lord a prep you for fallout season two in December and Alicia's affiliate podcast bullshit dust doing doing right now and the star wars cannon timeline podcast which covers the star wars cannon timeline in spoiler free order chronologically so plenty of things for you to listen to please go and do that
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... for now and remember stick around post credits and will do a little bit of spoilery talk me and marlin uh... for now i just want to thank everybody our discord server boosters air and k to live the thriller do seventy one at the net a listoo nancy and goes to partition and radioactive rejured
[SPEAKER_01]: And our lore masters, Martian Michael G. Michelle E. Brian P. S. C. Peter O'H.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Ford's last him, Paul K. Bobby C. Jessica H. And Adrian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everyone for all your support.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stick around after the credits if you want big book spoilers that Marilyn and I are going to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks folks.
[SPEAKER_02]: See you next time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Marilyn, big spoiler warning here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna talk full spoilers for the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good, good, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like we're dancing around this and people are gonna be wondering what we're dancing around.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, did I blow it, John?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you did for a minute, but I edited it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I will have edited it out by the time you get this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I tried to recover.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just, I was just like, because you, you, I think, let's slip that Magnifico.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I think, almost certainly is a meal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I tried to cover up and say, oh, did I say amen?
[SPEAKER_01]: You said the mule when you meant magnifico.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did, and I said, oh, did I say that?
[SPEAKER_02]: I meant this, but that might not be enough for perspicacious listeners.
[SPEAKER_02]: So apologies.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I was like, let me, that's why I questioned you on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, let her say that one more time with the remaining.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, they just really do seem to be pointing towards that more and more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unless they're thinking six
[SPEAKER_02]: dimensional chess level.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're going to pull up the rug from under even us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you have not read the books, I'm supposed to be clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Magnifico is the mule secretly in the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there isn't even a figure head meal in the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like people assume that the fleet has the mule with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it turns out in the end that beta has figured out that Magnifico was the mule all along.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was not just the the fool for the mule.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the mule along.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the visitor's sonor is sort of what he uses to mask the powers, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes you feel like, oh, it's just the music making me feel a certain way, but it was actually the meal the whole time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many clues at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the fact that they're all talking about how the visitor's sonor is part of the tool of the troll that the meal is using.
[SPEAKER_01]: The fact that I think you've pointed out Marilyn, the music is always happening when the meal was doing the mind control.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like always.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have yet to remember an incident when it wasn't happening that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even this time, like you were pointing out here, well, Magnifico is playing is when the ship start killing each other, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's it's surely after that, but they've been prepped.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've been put under the influence of whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, once they all arrive, it's easy enough to just, you know, flip that little switch and say, okay, go to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think another clue is that this, the mule in name woke up this time and says, I feel like I've been wearing someone else's dreams.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was when I said, okay, guys, you've been in up putting anymore flags out here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think they're really out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it'll be cool if people can figure it out on their own too.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like just from the thing in the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was a smart way to do it, especially because I think Gale was a red herring here, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, oh, well, Gale, Gale's in my dreams, but those are two different things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: One is I'm wearing someone else's dreams of the other is Gale, Jordanic is in my dreams.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that was a very clever way of putting it through.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you could even listen and think, oh, well, I guess because there's so similar and they're so closely linked, they've been sharing each other's dreams.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Voldemort Harry Potter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why, so I see a lot of people being mad about this portrayal, the meal being so violent and traditional villain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's why I keep saying people are going to have egg on their face because they're going to be like, oh, that wasn't the mule the whole time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, that's an interesting question, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is mule bag difficult?
[SPEAKER_02]: controlling this puppet to be so incredibly violent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You do.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that this is meant to be extraordinarily cruel so that he seems like such a villain and nobody questions if that's the real meal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's because of the focus of attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, we not watch the head.
[SPEAKER_01]: I genuinely have not watched the head pass.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we either.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is all from book spoilers and clues in the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think it was not sure if we were going to do because in the book she just don't see the meal, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you just don't see the meal until you know that it's magnificent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: But here we did get a meal in name and I think they are just doing that to throw book readers off to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it was a clever idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but I think by episode three both you and I were saying, well, yeah, I think basically as soon as we as soon as we met back and if I go with the Vizzi son or I was like, oh, yeah, I think I'm just I'm yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is still this is the me older do in the book thing and what I realized how they were really coding
[SPEAKER_02]: the warlord as a Viking was the way I put it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, enjoying slicing people's skin off them while they're alive and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's the one that's intended to catch all the attention and all the focus I've never.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that leaves me difficult free to, you know, go off.
[SPEAKER_02]: And oh, another little clue when they took over the starbridge before they left Calgary.
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: quote unquote, the meal says to the dying guard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't make you enjoy this.
[SPEAKER_02]: They, they, you know, I'm, they took away my music.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he says, oh, I'm set from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can't make, I won't make the you enjoy this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, but really, I think, you know, if he can't, it's because he can't because he can't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the meal isn't, the meal isn't there on the stargated at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've never seen the Mule Act without the Magnifico with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or Magnifico having been ahead of him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's also very much like the books.
[SPEAKER_02]: that it's after, you know, each planet that they touch upon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of how data figures it out, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: I recognize that feeling from when the mule attacked and this happened in a later thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think we're going to diverge a lot too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we already have diverge a lot from this point line, but I do think we are ending with Maggie the Mule.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I'll be very curious to see how they decide to give us that reveal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And are they going to wait until episode ten?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which would make sense because that's really him and he respects the climax of the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, they may have written themselves into a corner here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I won't say a thing more about that because that could still be something that would be a surprise if we don't need to spoil books that far in advance.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have one idea that they might follow that would follow the plot of the books as to how
[SPEAKER_02]: They finally clear all this up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, another big question is, are we getting into the season after after season three?
[SPEAKER_01]: We are.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already been renewed.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what material are they going to be giving us at that point?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's questions on if they're going to follow the lawyer plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: or if the new showrunner's gonna come in in, you know, greenhouse.
[SPEAKER_02]: And did Goya plan to follow more or less the plot of second foundation?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that Goya had told us in an interview last year that or two years ago, rather, that it was off ramps at that season's three, five and eight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're going through episode three season four.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, none of that is three forever eight.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think this is going to be a climax here.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be you could stop watching this series after this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Huh, even though you think there's going to be a season four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think there's going to be a big wrap up this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I haven't seen it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think we have access to the finale yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So trust me, I'm not spoiling anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: But no, no, there's still, well, I think we have the title, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have the title, but we don't have the actual episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, point is, point is, we're not spoiling anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I based it, but you know, I spoke to go for two years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: He could have changed a lot of things since then, who knows?
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair point, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Particularly, he saw the handwriting on the wall and said, oh, a bit of red stuff even sooner and later, though, let me stay throughout the whole thing until he just couldn't stomach it anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, everyone, that was our short book spoiler section.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll try to be more careful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I caught it right away.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I marked it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you sure did.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I could tell.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could tell you prompted me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, huh?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hold on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hold on there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I ceased your lifeline with gratitude.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've slept too.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I, and I've had to bark too with a wheel of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, it's so much warmer.
[SPEAKER_01]: So tough to remember when things happen and we will have time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: particularly with so many books to try and keep.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, fifteen books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to say fourteen because it's fourteen in a prequel, but at least you kept yelling at me to say fifty and so now I say fifteen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, cranky.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's helpful for me that I'm reading the series along the YouTube, but I think I could also be detrimental to terms of not spoiling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I stopped reading the books along.
[SPEAKER_01]: I finished second foundation and then I said, I needed an azimab break.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have read like five books this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I need a little break.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, on the other hand, I'm really glad that I was reading Prelude to Foundation and was at that particular point where we had all the scene with the sweet seller, because if I hadn't been at that point, I never would have recognized that the things she said were exactly word for word.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's very cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the old David Goyer wrote this for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Turns out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright Marilyn we've had a lovely time today.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna call it a night and we'll see everybody next week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, thanks, John.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good night everybody.