[SPEAKER_04]: This is Jockel Podcast number five-oh-one with Carrie Helton and me, Jockel Willick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, Carrie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[SPEAKER_04]: Once we arrived at Camp Ramodian June, everyone could tell we were not in the north anymore.
[SPEAKER_04]: Motor attacks occurred daily and we were located right against the enemy held parts of the city.
[SPEAKER_04]: I said that correctly.
[SPEAKER_04]: The enemy controlled over seventy-five percent of the city.
[SPEAKER_04]: From government buildings to hospitals and neighborhoods,
[SPEAKER_04]: However, we held the edge of the east and the west sides of town.
[SPEAKER_04]: We had a transition of authority scheduled around June, two thousand and six from their brigade to ours.
[SPEAKER_04]: We would officially assume control of the operation and they would go home.
[SPEAKER_04]: The plan was set.
[SPEAKER_04]: On the night of the turnover of authority, our brigade would attack the city.
[SPEAKER_04]: We would simply push from east and west and meet in the middle no matter how long that took.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our unit was again attached to another battalion, and we were still serving conventional roles.
[SPEAKER_04]: But as a bonus, we would be in a close relationship with sealed team three task unit bruiser and begin planning for our small, kill team operations.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were a specialized unit within our brigade.
[SPEAKER_04]: If there was something another unit couldn't do, an area they wouldn't go in or sniper, they couldn't kill.
[SPEAKER_04]: They called us.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were embedded with the asymmetric warfare group personnel.
[SPEAKER_04]: who helped us develop small, killed team tactics, sensitive site exploitation procedures and mission analysis techniques.
[SPEAKER_04]: We partnered with the Navy SEAL team Task Unit Bruser and built lifelong friendships with them as we fought against the enemy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that right there is a little excerpt from a book called Chop That Shit Up, which is by retired command sergeant Major Dan Pinion, and Dan was the first sergeant.
[SPEAKER_04]: of the Brigade Recon Troop and Ramadi, and Tasking Abuser, we worked alongside them, a ton when they were a small group of well-trained well-led soldiers, and they were moved around the battlefield from hot spot, the hot spot, wherever the fighting was, most intense, whoever needed support, they were sent.
[SPEAKER_04]: And because of this,
[SPEAKER_04]: This troop, the brigade recon troops suffered the highest casualties of any company sized unit in Ramadi.
[SPEAKER_04]: We covered some of this and we reviewed the book chop that shit up with Dan pinion himself on podcast for eighty two.
[SPEAKER_04]: But before we hit record on that,
[SPEAKER_04]: Dan had brought one of his guys down one of his buddies and had a chance to talk briefly with Rob Black, who was Dan's combat medic in Ramadi, who did one tour, one tour in the army, and that one tour put him on the ground in Ramadi in that brigade recon troop.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he got out of the army.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's now a firefighter.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a paramedic out here in California, and meeting Rob.
[SPEAKER_04]: I asked him if he wanted to come and share his experiences in the army on a podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was a young frontline medic.
[SPEAKER_04]: First tour in Iraq.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he saw intense combat on the day-to-day basis in the worst parts of the city against the tournament enemy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And thankfully Rob agreed to come on and talk about his experiences before during and after his time at war, his successes and his struggles and how he got through them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rob, thanks for joining us.
[SPEAKER_04]: Man, appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, wow, what an intro.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got the day off from firefighter.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, right on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Luckily on vacation this week.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's that's that's good deal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Firefighters are kind of cool when it comes to that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it like that across the whole country?
[SPEAKER_04]: I know in California.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like you work twenty four hours.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you get three days off.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you work twenty four hours.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you get three.
[SPEAKER_04]: They get time off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: So is everybody doing that way?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's different like schedules and ship patterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: The department I work for were currently on an eleven day work period.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about to go to a possibly ten day work period and it's kind of funky.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we used to do seventy two hour shifts.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it used to be three days on four days off and with
[SPEAKER_01]: are union and are collective bargaining.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gotten cut down significantly because like the mental health issues that's been at the front.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wait, you do seventy two hours straight?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of a schedule that was, it's been around since like the nineteen seventies.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now with like modernization, population growth, call volume.
[SPEAKER_01]: They take into account all that data and everything and they're like, okay, that's like kind of way too long.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, because you don't get to necessarily sleep, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, depending on where you work, like I work primarily in the city of Marino Valley.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a pretty large city.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been there since, twenty-fourteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was a firefighter there, paramedic there, and now I'm an engineer there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was fortunate enough to go back there, but yeah, three days long, it can be rough at times.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you really have to like truly depend on each other, especially when it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Big incident happens just endless calls, but like that's what's so fun about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just it's never ending and that's what I love about the job like and its totality is that you never go into work and it's the same thing like you could have a plan like Last shift we were doing like we had to redo the stickers on the ladders and then you go into work and then all of the sudden the tones go off finger on a rolled over car on the freeway
[SPEAKER_01]: Something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the best job in the world because it's never the same thing because I don't know what I do at a desk.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the right on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but the schedule patterns do change depending on department.
[SPEAKER_01]: What their call volume is and it's crazy that like sixty five percent of the nation is volunteer firefighters.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: In California, we're paid because we live in Southern California like obviously like a geographical paradise, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But the great basin causes a lot of these like horrific winds that just drive the fire season crazy because it causes those Santa Ana with the wind pressure changes and we just get those volatile winds.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just happen to live in that area of the country where wildfires run crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: But where else would you rather live though?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go to the mountains and beach everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it down here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, California's epic.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll get into some of that firefighting stuff, but let's get a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to just get a little bit of background on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: So where you grew up in California, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, sir.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was that all about?
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew up in Boina Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: So right next to not's Barry Farm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was actually like my first job.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you do there?
[SPEAKER_01]: I worked at Lucy's lunch box and then I worked at Edison in Soak City like the water park during the summers and I did food service.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was my very first job.
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom took me over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, drop me off.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did like a little interview then like, oh, you're hired.
[SPEAKER_04]: Were you like, sixteen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sixteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was really fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was good for like the times.
[SPEAKER_01]: I met it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually still talked to a couple of guys that I worked there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for a sixteen year old, it was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: And would your parents do?
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom's a bus driver, so she worked for OCTA for well over thirty years, I believe like thirty-three years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she, like instilled in me, like the work ethic, she'd get up three in the morning, go drive her route, come back, pick me up from school, always there.
[SPEAKER_01]: My dad worked for food for less as like a distribution.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe he did like truck distribution.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he bounced when I was eight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So one day he came in and I'm going to go live with Uncle Dan for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't understand what that meant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a daughter who's seven now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now it's starting to hit me like holy crap like that was kind of like the age like her birthday is in a couple months and my dad
[SPEAKER_01]: came in said I'm gonna go live with Uncle Dan for a little bit and I said okay well I'll see you later because I didn't understand what that meant as a child and he left for a year didn't called in a ride asked I asked where he was on my birthday my mom's like I don't know I haven't heard from him and like
[SPEAKER_01]: give all credit to my mom like she kind of shielded us from all of that crap that we didn't need to know yeah that's legit finding that battle for like myself and my sister like because I had no idea what was going on I didn't understand like why my dad wasn't around and
[SPEAKER_01]: little day I know like that caused and we can get into it a little later on like my dad leaving was like the seed that was planted that why the trauma that I went through and I wrecked was like so horrific because it like planted the seed of like abandonment so like when my friends passed away in the military like it just it dug up all those old feelings from when I was a child and
[SPEAKER_01]: developing and it caused a lot of problems.
[SPEAKER_04]: But when you're eight, you're just like, oh, we're with that coming back tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was playing Game Boy and I knew my uncle Dan like just from holidays and stuff, but like we just had this like very estranged relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was growing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: He would they went to, it was like a vicious court battle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember they wanted me and my sister to testify and my mom stopped it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like absolutely not like
[SPEAKER_01]: She was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: She protected us from everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a great role model and still the work ethic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then he would get me and my sister every two weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like our relationship wasn't there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I collected baseball cards and coins when I was a kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I told GLA, I'm a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like I collected like baseball cards and he was still buying me that when I was like, fourteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like dad, I haven't, I'm not even into this anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just, he went from like being my father who was always around to like this just man that I now had to go with every two weeks and it was just, I know we kind of like grew apart.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what were you into in in like school and whatnot?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was played football at halftime.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in the band.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went to school in La Palma, California.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went to Kennedy High School.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in the drum line.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it started in fourth grade.
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom dropped me off one day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said I wanted to play drums and just took off from there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you play and did you play like rock and roll as well?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, so I had a drum set one of my best friends Sean he played guitar so I'd go on like tap crawler.com and Kind of taught myself how to play guitar and bass was I any good probably but not absolutely not I could like fiddle around him do some power chords that I was super super into band what kind of music to do like
[SPEAKER_01]: So me and my wife just went to warp tour this last weekend so that that kind of liking compasses like the style of music that I really like like rise against saos and penny wise
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we saw Ann Berlin.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: State champs like just pop punk.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think like a data, remember, it would be like my ideal band where I'm like the super hard breakdowns like drop D guitar like chugging breakdowns and then super poppy chorus is like, I miss her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like the best out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I had a drum set, tried to start a couple of bands in high school.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just try to get
[SPEAKER_01]: bunch of sixteen seventeen year olds are like get on the same page did you name any of the bands?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had bands growing up and we would change our name like every couple months.
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you play?
[SPEAKER_04]: I played bass guitar and sang and none of those very well in fact for all of them pretty bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: I could you know you can kind of get away with bass and probably one of the most controversial things that I've ever done.
[SPEAKER_04]: online was I said that if you can play guitar you can play bass right the I know people freaked out then but let me let me let me let me say this if you can play guitar you can play bass I mean you can play bass you might might not be able to play bass
[SPEAKER_04]: not like, you know, geese or Butler or anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you can play a base.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can play the baseline.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's not that hard to play a simple baseline.
[SPEAKER_04]: And which is what I did.
[SPEAKER_04]: I played a simple baseline and saying, and we always, I always joke.
[SPEAKER_04]: We made more like band t-shirts.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, because we'd always make t-shirts for our bands.
[SPEAKER_04]: We made more band t-shirts than we made some songs.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I think I was just really stoked about the idea of just being in a band.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the big question is, did you pluck or did you use a pick?
[SPEAKER_04]: both both yeah, I it was kind of for you know it's yeah
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, again, I just went and saw Black Sabbath, final show, ever.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, just watching Giza Butler, who's always, you know, Black Sabbath's my favorite band of all time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And watching Giza Butler play, like you couldn't imagine doing what he's doing with a pick.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just not happening.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he's just so freaking insane.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like, Lee.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible that they do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but yeah, we never, you know, we have to hear some vocals.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just basically just picture me yelling like an idiot.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we had, so my buddy, he had the, because we went to the studio one time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we, we laid down a, but we, we made a bunch of songs.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he, my buddy, Elgin, has the master like real to real tapes like the for track.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how many track I think it might have been eight track, but it was a big, real, real thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Old school.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, bro, we got to get like, we got to get that.
[SPEAKER_04]: We got to get the music off of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because there was a couple.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Quite frankly, there's a couple of bangers on there.
[SPEAKER_04]: A couple of bangers.
[SPEAKER_01]: So head nodders.
[SPEAKER_04]: K dog, you'd be into it.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a song that I wrote called Myself Strong, which was pretty legit, but So he brought him to like the most forensic sort of recovery place in our like hey, we can't we can't get anything off this so it's a lost Yeah, which is very sad you still remember the songs I do I can yeah, yeah, between the two of us we could probably put it put it back together So this is your buddy's jamming.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, jamming
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that the best though?
[SPEAKER_01]: It is like just hanging out and like bringing up like, hey, let's just do a couple of covers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It starts from there and then you try and make your own, you're like, wow, this is extremely hard.
[SPEAKER_04]: Dude, I'm the opposite.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, so I still like where I still play.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we have my buddy's garage.
[SPEAKER_04]: He has like a little mini studio in his garage.
[SPEAKER_04]: We call it the whole.
[SPEAKER_04]: and we still go in there and jam.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the funny thing is is we joke because we don't play hardly any covers ever and we just play thirty three minute freaking just crazy songs that we only play one time ever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Freaking huge stress reliever too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, music is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just takes you into another place.
[SPEAKER_04]: You still play drums?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, like, I don't know, like, I just lost interest in it one time, which is weird, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That is weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, like, I was used to get him back, dude.
[SPEAKER_04]: I saw some of those digital kids that you can put on headphones.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just talking to my wife about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could buy like the digital ones, do headphones make hardly any noise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I was super into music and then I just kind of like lost it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, at what point did you start thinking about joining the military?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was in high school in two thousand three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I graduated in June of two thousand three.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when the invasion started.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was March of O three correct when the invasion started.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my uncle was a paratrooper in Vietnam.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was in the one seventy-third airborne.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was talking to him and it just came up.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, what are you gonna do?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, all my buddies are gonna go to Cyprus College.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think that's a good idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I think it's your time.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I was like oh shit like you have a lot of problems on go jack like I don't know like I don't know if I want to be like you like and he's he's passed away now but him and I have always had like a we had like a very interesting relation is this your your mom's brother my mom's brother also she would see she saw him coming home from Vietnam and
[SPEAKER_01]: When I told her that, hey, I talked to Uncle Jack, he thinks it's a good idea for me to join.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is when, like, you turn on the TV and it's like the invasion, the invasion, we are invading that rack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we've reached Baghdad.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're pulling down Saddam's, like the, what was at the big statue, like the big statue.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, no, go to college.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will pay whatever it costs for you to not go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then for some reason, I was like, okay, now I'm going.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I need to do this like for myself and especially like I told some of my friends and like people in high schools like, hey, thinking about joining and they laugh they're like you like you're gonna go I'm like, yeah man, like what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of like, I don't know, it kind of like inspired me to like really want to do it and I had an interest in medical.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew I wanted to do something medical.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't know what
[SPEAKER_01]: like I watch a saving private Ryan and I really like connected with like weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he was the medic with the with the rangers that went through and he was he always seemed like the calm cool collected like took care of everyone like he gave us a fighting chance like I love that scene and so when I went around to the recruiters then I went to the Navy and they said we can only promise you and I'm not sure how the Navy works but
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it was a branch like we could offer you like medical branch, but whatever is open at that time, then you'd be placed there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if they needed x-ray text at the end of basic training, then you'd go do x-ray or dental or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the army was like, no, you will be a medic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was like my decision point and I made like a little on my cell phone like a little
[SPEAKER_01]: thing like two weeks after I graduated high school, I'm going to make a decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to either join or I'm going to sign up for college.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I made the decision, talked to my uncle one more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He showed me all his medals.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was kind of like, I was going to sound really lame, but like my dad left.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I looked up to my uncle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like showing me his medals.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was kind of like he like impromptu father figure in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess striving for like his approval and I was like hey man, like will you go with me to the recruiter or talk to the recruiter and he was like I'd never seen him interact with me that way and I was like holy shit like I think I'm getting this this guy's approval and I joined and then I went off to Fort Cilocal home up for basic and then went to how long did you do once you signed up how long did you wait around for before you went?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I signed up in two weeks after high school, so probably early July and I left October ninth for basic training because they had like the delayed entry.
[SPEAKER_01]: And was your mom completely freaking out this morning?
[SPEAKER_01]: Pist.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, why are you doing like you know there's a war, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, but I'm probably not going to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what did you say you had for siblings?
[SPEAKER_01]: one sister is you older younger older she's uh her name's Mary so she's five years older and what was she saying uh she didn't really whatever yeah she was kind of like just supportive she's very supportive and so you go to Fort Hill how was boot camp were you did you regret your decision were you into it that was my first time on a plane down I did I had like that's that was my life in Orange County like I worked at Notsbury Farm
[SPEAKER_01]: like my biggest concern was like if the frio machine was broken like I was like boys and berry game like just it was I was born on third base I didn't hit a triple like I know that you know what I mean like I was very very fortunate like the life that I had and like and my upbringing like I know that and
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that was my first time, getting on a plane, hitting or cheese, going to Fort Syll, and I remember it was just so flat, because that's where the artillery is, like, that's home of the artillery, like, king of the battle.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just flat, windy, and I do remember, like, the in-processing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was still like, this is kind of weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, like, sure what I'm doing, but the second day of, like, boot camp,
[SPEAKER_01]: we were like sitting down for the PT test and we all had our like we had these colored vests on and I remember sitting down and you had to turn around so you couldn't watch the guy that was going and you had to put your heads between your knees so you couldn't watch so they didn't want anyone seen and that's when I had that like thought of like what the hell am I doing like because it is like five in the morning right and we're out here doing a PT test like I was just in band like not that long ago you know like
[SPEAKER_01]: I could get college paid for and now like they're telling me I get a GI bill so I can go to college after like this is kind of crappy man and then and then it breaks you down so much to realize that you're like nothing and you have to work is like a team to succeed because regardless of what people say group punishment works they give you do not fall in line with what the platines doing like you they're you're all gonna pay for it
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I went to a medic school at Fort Sam Houston, Texas.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was sixteen weeks.
[SPEAKER_04]: And how was that medic school?
[SPEAKER_04]: Now that you're a paramedic when you look back, how good was your training?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like in the SEAL teams, the medic in the SEAL teams, they get freaking awesome training.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's his outstanding.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to say it's over a year long.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's insane.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they get an incredible amount.
[SPEAKER_04]: They do like, they go into, uh, uh,
[SPEAKER_04]: like emergency rooms and work on people they get live tissue training all the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's crazy the amount of training they get.
[SPEAKER_04]: How was your training?
[SPEAKER_01]: So the first eight weeks is national registry EMT training.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're an EMT basic.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you actually the first eight weeks is like the in processing of EMT school.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're getting up to a national standard or training.
[SPEAKER_01]: The second eight weeks is military training like military medicine like how did
[SPEAKER_01]: just all the tips and tricks, you're basically just a trauma machine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So to correlate that on the outside was kind of hard because usually, and for the most part in the military, everyone's healthy, like nobody has like seizure problems, heart problems, nothing like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I went to paramedic school, the trauma aspect was easy when I was doing that portion of it, but in paramedic and that's so like very little of like what you need to know to be a paramedic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very sick, geriatric patients with chest pain or diabetics, seizures, all these, like all the pathophysiology, like that I had to learn all the cardiology, the pharmacology, like it was all new.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do remember meeting up with the seal team medics a couple times when we just like look at each other's eight bags.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe one dude was a sniper too.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I'm the medic and the sniper.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we actually believe it or not had a couple guys that were medics and snipers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I remember wrapping with him like during one of the briefings because we went to your guys is one of your briefings.
[SPEAKER_01]: We stood on the outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was still blown away that you guys were like on a first name basis because I was like, I don't even know why I'm in this room for one because we're doing outer cord on for you guys like for you guys to go and do the work like we're just that we're gonna hang out on the outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you guys go take care of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: but we were all briefing in there and you guys are just calling each other by your first name so like calm cool collected and like it was just so like well orchestrated was like the Chick-fil-A drive through you guys are just like so smooth like an operationally sounded like holy crap like
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I was just blown away with how smooth it went.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the briefing down to like the entire operation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like hearing the seal teams on the radio, there was no inflection in the voice of his calm, cool collected.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember like, I believe we talked about it before, like cop Falcon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there were three like IA injured.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the radio traffic was just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, we have three injured.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to X fill and it's like do these these guys are machines.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, we had a good crew and I'm thinking about the snipers the sniper medics that you're talking about right now
[SPEAKER_01]: It was one guy that I thought I believe is like an Asian guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's so that's Johnny Kim, you know, who's that's like the astronaut right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I saw that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw it like a news article.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, dude, I'm pretty sure I met that dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: You did because we were him and I were sitting.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're outside just going over like art the breakout session after the on the brief.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, hey, what do you carry in that thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was showing me like his A bag and just wrapping with him and he's and I looked at his weapon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, too, that's some gnarly web.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, yeah, I'm a sniper too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, and I couldn't like now he's a freaking astronaut.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, and this is after he went.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a doctor too.
[SPEAKER_04]: He went to Harvard Medical School.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come forward.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, that's John.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on up, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's he's an awesome guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And actually the other
[SPEAKER_04]: The one of the other snipers in Apple Tune was also a cornman.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was Kevin Lace, Dobber's his nickname, but he was another medic sniper, which is definitely a weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a little bit rare.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it doesn't happen a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: The fact that we, first of all, we had thirteen snipers in my task, you know, which was a lot of that's normally like, maybe you'd have.
[SPEAKER_04]: five or six, maybe, but we had thirteen.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was again, like when you have corpsmen that are snipers, two of your medics are snipers, that's just what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just rats overkill.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but when you're in medic school, going rewind a little bit back to going to medic school, what do you see, do you feel like you got pretty good training there?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're basically like just a trauma machine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to like the final drills is you have to be able to treat four critical patients with one aid bag and it's kind of cool like they they set up like loud speakers and I have to go in they have like flashing lights as simulating like a battlefield and then you have to like crawl over to like the casualties
[SPEAKER_01]: assess some like turnicates, bleeding control, say like what your interventions would be, and you have to treat four critically wounded patients to pass.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought it was really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: The training that I got and then I got orders to go to Friedberg Germany.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where Elvis was stationed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was in the military.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ray Barrick.
[SPEAKER_04]: There you go for a new legit.
[SPEAKER_04]: How's it when you shop there?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was actually putting in the five hundred and first forward support battalion because the brigade reconnaissance does not have a medic assigned to them until they deploy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was actually in an aid station unit until we deployed.
[SPEAKER_04]: And did they tell you, hey, once we deploy, you're going to go into the grid, recon true?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was kind of a funny story.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did all this training, like up until, like we knew we were going, because first armor division deployed in two thousand three in the initial, they came back in two thousand four.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we were, we're slated to go back in two thousand six.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we knew we were going in January of those six.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in the support battalion.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of my training was geared towards like, casualty receiving.
[SPEAKER_04]: So like being in Charlie Med.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I was in Charlie Med.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, in a way, it worked out to my benefit because I knew all the doctors, all the PAs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still keep in contact with some of those people.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was in Charlie Med and before we deployed, I did a couple of operations with Dan and for the training and when BRT requested a medic, they requested me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got called into my CEO's office.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, Hey, you're being reassigned.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have orders to go with BRT.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this was like right before the deployment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got those orders before we went on two weeks of leave before we were going to deploy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got the orders did Christmas and we were deploying like two weeks after January.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, so what, how were you?
[SPEAKER_04]: How did you get caught up on like your soldiering skills?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what
[SPEAKER_01]: that's what was wild is I did a couple like just I was attached as the medic to brigade reconnaissance for some like training stuff but then when I got assigned to him I was kind of like on the outside I'm like what do you guys do here like what's a cavalry scout like so I was like way behind the learning curve so I looked up like there
[SPEAKER_01]: job description what they actually do I'm telling you like I was like way behind and Little did I know that they'd be they were on like the forefront of like hey we like go into like gnarly shit um it was a
[SPEAKER_01]: huge culture shock not only like fitting in with all those guys because I went from being In platoons and a company like co-ed so like with women and then I got to BRT and I had I remember like doing PT like one of the first times I had dirt on my pants I just got lit up by the exo He's like I don't know who the fuck you think you are I don't know we don't do that shit around here like your stuff will be clean and you'll be wired.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is this fucking game time like shit needs to be wired type
[SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of got like a little free pass because I was a medic but yeah, I learned I tried to learn their job to the best of my ability the guys were great on like training every time they were doing training I'd jump in be like hey like what are you guys doing I they noticed that so like later on in the deployment when guys were going home on leave like they had me be a driver hmm
[SPEAKER_04]: and this was when we got there we went we landed in a telefar and then that's where you guys kicked off to point it was in telefar that's what a little background so telefar uh that was at the third ACR had been up there with uh with uh Colonel at the time uh McMaster H.R.
[SPEAKER_04]: McMaster and he they'd used the
[SPEAKER_04]: The counter insurgency strategy up in Tallahafar and it had worked really well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so this brigade that was up there that took their place, the one one AD, when they got up there, there was not a lot going on in a good way, because what McMaster and third ACR had done had settled out the insurgency, and that then freed up the one one AD to go to the other area that needed to be suppressed, which was Ramadi.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we were up there for I think approximately four months and then we got the order to start convict pack everything up and we're going to Ramadi.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you feel like you got like a little more up to speed while you're up there as far as your soldiering skills?
[SPEAKER_01]: It gave me that that time that I needed to like learn who they are, what they did, how they operate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is what a calorie scout is and this is what we need from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like because being the medic, you're kind of like those extra hands if need be
[SPEAKER_01]: but also like I wanted them to rely on me like I want I didn't want to just be an observer like I wanted to be part of like the team because I wanted to help as well so it gave me that time to watch their training go through like what they do what they actually do like everything radios mapping all of that like so it gave me that time to kind of step up and kind of learn their job in a way
[SPEAKER_04]: And Dan Pinion like, you know, he was on the podcast, uh, who was a couple months ago, and and you see Dan Pinion, he looks like a, I mean, he looks like a normal guy now, you know, I mean, he's just a normal guy like we all look like normal guys and he looks like a normal guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: bro back in the day like when he was a freaking beast like he was he was kind of like a what they call the call central casting like he was straight out of central casting for like First cartoon first sergeant or troop first sergeant he was just a big stud like angry look and do yeah and just a beast and that's that was your that was your leader yes absolutely so it that's what I
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very well said.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not even sure what to say to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was our leader.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was due to the leader.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're like not trying to jump forward too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like the guys I was with like Sergeant Marco, Sergeant Gonzalez, Sergeant Garcia, like that whole leadership core like kept us alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when when we got orders to go to Iraq, I
[SPEAKER_01]: I got bought into that like hearts and minds like we're going over there to like you know help people and being a medical that oh yeah I can get to like help the community and do like community medicine and those guys had already deployed like they've been there done that I believe Sergeant Marco Hughes in one of the ACRs that like
[SPEAKER_01]: pushed up like guys on their second deployment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was kind of like naive to the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember sitting there one night, we would have to pull a guard duty in B.A.J.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's where we were stationed was B.A.J.Rack.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just on the outer skirts near the Syrian border.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do missions to the Syrian border to see if they were bringing arms in or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But nothing ever happened more than a couple of mortar attacks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: dying to get in combat because you're hearing these stories of like all dude when we were in the shit and this my medic so good all the medic that I had before did this the medic before like did that and I'm like dude I can do that too like you know what I mean like jealous girlfriend like dude hey guys like I'm right here and you never you never can totally prepare for combat like because instinctually like
[SPEAKER_01]: The first time I was ever shot, I didn't even know what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was standing on a wall, a cop grant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was standing on a wall in a couple of shots hit like the center block in brick wall in front of me and it shot up all the debris and I dropped to the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is like my brain is off.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no clue what's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I dropped down and uh... sergeant is all is ran over to me he's like where are you hit at because he thought i got shot because i dropped down and i said what's happening he's like we're getting fucking shot at are you hit i said i think i'm good any check me he's like fire back i don't see anything he's like just fucking fired anything
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just shot it a building like I chose a building I'm like boom, and then I was like oh shit like I just got shot at like my brain just couldn't not process
[SPEAKER_01]: What was happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: I had my twenty first birthday two weeks before we deployed so I was home on leave for like Christmas leave and then twenty one years old like we got shipped out so that was like a cop grant got shot I was like dude I have no clue and then after that you're like kind of good you're like oh shit like that's what rounds sound like when they're being shot
[SPEAKER_01]: at you and like what movie is it like the crack in the whiz like the crack is like super close the whiz means it's like near you and you get used to like hearing it you're like oh shit that's not even close to us that's not even near us but like you you never know how you're gonna react or what you're gonna do or even prepare to be shot at or even fire bat and like it's
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's a life-alternant experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you, so when you rolled down from California down to Ramadi, what was it like?
[SPEAKER_04]: Was it like April or May or something like that?
[SPEAKER_04]: I believe it's May.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, and you know, like, you know, you've been ordered a few times up there, but nothing, nothing crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: How, at what point did you recognize like the seriousness of Ramadi versus the other battlefield background?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so naive like we would do missions and do you remember those like white apartments in Ramadi they call them like the Chinese apartments?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember we would like drive by and like get a couple pop shots or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were getting hit by IEDs like quite frequently but they were never
[SPEAKER_01]: like hurting anyone, like it'd be like small bits of shrapnel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then we got orders to keep going up and down route Gremlin, which neighbor the train station and the university.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, when it got to its worst was August fourth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's when we were doing, I believe it was civil affairs and I'm sure Dan will correct me like if I'm wrong, but we were doing civil affairs on another town over and white platoon was heading back in and near the university and near the train station.
[SPEAKER_01]: White Platoon got hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the book it explains that like it's an S curve right in the road where a sergeant story and sergeant best got hit and it was also our interpreter who passed away as well and Mike Hayes who got thrown from the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: To say that the road is an S curve, it's a little more dynamic than that because it's a road that's going from a raised like hill.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the left turn is inclusive in that S turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they planted that IED, it was a command detonated IED that ran into the train station.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were making a left hand turn on an S turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it already like the Humvee was already kind of tilted.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember we heard this like loud explosion, because we were pretty far away.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a loud explosion.
[SPEAKER_04]: But were you on base were you in town?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I was in town.
[SPEAKER_01]: So white and red, we were both doing missions out at the same time, just in different locations.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we were all, I believe we were somewhere near the university.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then white, we heard the calls for white, but it seemed like, hey, we've been hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: We drive over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I grabbed all my shit We're driving you could see the column building like just a black column of something burning I'm like what the fuck is that like and Like I'm saying like naivety like you don't know what you don't know and before it was like oh, they got hit by an idea like everyone will probably be okay because that's what's happened before like patterns and repeat themselves you know what I mean
[SPEAKER_01]: So we pull up, uh, we pull outside security, um, we get out and the vehicle was on its side.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe, uh, Doc Herod already took Hayes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe he was gone or, or they might have still been there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and they said, hey, story and best are either inside or they got thrown.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I walked around the outside of the vehicle and there was a whole blown in the underside of the vehicle that was larger than the turret.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that whole that was blown in the vehicle reached all four tires and I remember like looking through it I was like I can see through that thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so me and me and one other guy, like I grabbed my eight bag and I remember walking through a field, like near the train station because we were looking for them and we were calling out to their names like, hey, you know, Clint, where are these guys?
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were looking at each other and then someone told me like they're still in the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, no, like there's nothing left.
[SPEAKER_01]: of the view.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean they're still in the vehicle?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just this like this unreal like thought that they're gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what do you mean they're still in there?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were just here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were just playing poker a couple nights ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like those are your boys.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the interpreter was in there too.
[SPEAKER_01]: When it hit me that it was like this is
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like the real deal is we would carry body bags on our vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they told me to go get the body bags.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I put them in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so I was the driver.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to inventory everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew where everything was on that piece of equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Grab the body bag and I think Sergeant Marsh walked over with an arm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the interpreter's arm, just an arm.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, open the bag.
[SPEAKER_01]: I unziped it and he like dropped it in.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, all right, take that over there or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, do what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where am I?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what the fuck am I in right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I was like, this is for fucking keeps.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't realize like how much you can have to stay for other people because they just killed your friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: does that, it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember getting back to our tents and I just broke down crying because I was like, what did we miss?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we drove over that road multiple times that day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how long has it been there?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a command detonated ID.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had to have dug it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've had to disturb the road in some way.
[SPEAKER_01]: They laid wire into the train station and detonated it.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did we all miss that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's the guilt that you carry with, like, dude, maybe I maybe I should have sought when I was driving, because I drove by it on my left side, getting out to the village that we were in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's unacceptable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I think about that and being over there every single day of my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's terrible, like it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were, you know, speaking of Johnny Kim, we were, he was not only a sniper, not only a medic, but he would also do lead nav in our, in the humvies, and he'd be in like the front vehicle in the nav position, and we were going across the bridge.
[SPEAKER_04]: ECP-III, I think, drove across that bridge.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to go driving our vehicles to Cop Falcon, but we went through to meme to get there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're driving slowly, you know, like, really trying to be careful looking for pressure plates.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, whatever, what they call as crush wires and stuff like that, as opposed to looking for command, debt, stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we're looking, you know, we're driving, and I'm in vehicle too, you know, because normally driving vehicle too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I'm just sitting there and all of a sudden, like, the vehicle stopped.
[SPEAKER_04]: Johnny like thought he saw something and he like guys get out with white lights to try and look around and find the what we don't think it's anything so we drive we continue to cop falcon and then like an hour later The IED guys like find the like a triple stack there
[SPEAKER_04]: So we found it stopped, looked at it, looked for it, and decided it wasn't anything just drove over it, like no factor.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, the randomness of combat is very strange, and that's a good case.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're saying you guys drove by that shit all day long, and that probably
[SPEAKER_04]: you know like you said those guys take time put stuff in there and I'll leave it in there for days if not weeks if not months just waiting for the right time when they can think they can get away with it so for the earth to have been disturbed three weeks ago you're not going to see them or you know it's like and they did a good job they would you know they would like put dust and sweep around it and you know put trash on it whatever like you wouldn't be able to tell
[SPEAKER_01]: EOD showed us one time a pressure plate that I thought was like really ingenious like say what you will about them, but they were pretty pretty intelligent like the hand soblades.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would take two of those and just space it with cardboard and connect the two wires to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So those two soblades would never touch because of the cardboard.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you drive a Humvee tire over it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to connect those two soblades and talk about like
[SPEAKER_01]: efficient cheap and you could keep redoing it over and over and over but just with just two sublades running over an ID like
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it was just, it was wild.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we fast forward a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell me a little bit about what the brigade recon troop was doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'll start by saying this.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was almost the exact same thing that my seals were doing, which is going out, setting up over watch positions in areas where the enemy was expected to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: The enemy had been.
[SPEAKER_04]: We thought the enemy might be traversing through.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was going to be
[SPEAKER_04]: other operations that we're taking place where Overwatch was needed, you know, we were, and oftentimes we work together mutually supporting each other, but what was that kind of just talk like what a day-to-day, uh, getting spun up for an operation, briefing the operation going out and doing it.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was it like for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: So we would always, depending on what we were getting a lot of times we'd get route clearance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once a month we got to do going to buy up like the Baghdad International Airport to pick up the recruits for the Iraqi Army or the police force.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we would do, we would convoy them out there and then come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were stoked because we got to get Burger King and Sinabon and on the buy-up had
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything down.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had that little bizarre where you could buy all the new movies and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for like five bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk them down to like four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give me three of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you ten bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in a bond.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so how good is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like cheap McDonald's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's this going from?
[SPEAKER_01]: But we were just stoked to get out of there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like then we started doing like the small kill team stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was we did it before.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like I said, like nothing ever really happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a it was a huge learning curve like for me as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what do I do on these things?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'd always be in the back like uh, walk guys with like breach doors.
[SPEAKER_01]: going in, taking over the buildings, and more than likely we were taking over two at a time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because for a small kill team, you want two positions.
[SPEAKER_01]: If so one can watch the other one, that way it's a little bit easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we get the brief let it be known, like enemy contact is either imminent, highly likely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always worried about like moon illumination because no joke over there, like you can see everything if the moon is bright because there's no pollution, no smog, no nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the home of everyone's personal generators outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the illumination played a big factor in everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: The other thing that was interesting about you guys was, you might be supporting any battalion that was there.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys support them.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're in sometimes, which was three, eight, and then one, six, you guys supported the one, three, five, the one, three, seven.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Colonel McFarland, he was putting you guys wherever there was friction, wherever there was things going on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you do the same thing with us?
[SPEAKER_04]: And sometimes we would work together.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes there was multiple things to support, and it's weird.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know on on August second you know I had Colonel Dean who was a commander of the one three five on the podcast and you know on August second that's what that's when Mark Lee was killed and Ryan Jill was badly wounded and I had I had forgotten that on that day
[SPEAKER_04]: where we were conducting that operation with the one-three-seven in downtown Baghdad.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had a whole other element of seals that were with the one-three-five at the university doing a big massive clearance at the university.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a pretty mellow operation in relatively relative to what operations could be like and definitely relative to what was happening.
[SPEAKER_04]: in downtown with the one three seven but I forgot like oh yeah we were there and had a whole support element had he had seal intel guys out there like doing interrogations and whatnot and so you know depending on what was going on in the city
[SPEAKER_04]: my seals were getting moved around and we were moving around to support what was happening and then you guys were doing literally the exact same thing and if it was a big enough operation they'd throw you know we'd both have elements out there uh in various Overwatch positions but I might have two or three you might have one two or three and we'd be mutually supporting ourselves and then mutually supporting each other how crazy is that they'd like
[SPEAKER_01]: All that happened, what, nineteen years ago, and now we're sitting here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't even know it being in the same room together.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's wild how things work out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I truly do believe that like things happened for a reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there really was like no rhyme or reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like whatever job needed to get done.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd call us whether it was route clearance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Support it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hated supporting the engineers.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're doing route clearance.
[SPEAKER_04]: What were you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd get attached to the engineers and they would go out with like the buffaloes and just like you'd you'd be like the hom v's behind literally looking for mines like that was for I she's like I would rather walk through downtown Ramadi without an IBA hundred percent then drive anywhere I'll walk I don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to drive this thing like it's terrifying because that like they couldn't shoot anyway like they'd shoot it here.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always like just pop shots or whatever
[SPEAKER_01]: But driving was the most terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always thought like route clearance like this is this is it like this is where we're we're gonna get hit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, my first time going in Buffalo, which was the high D vehicles.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I was just catching ride from one side of Ramadi to the other, but they're still gonna do their job and it's really weird because
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, when you're out on patrol, whether you're in a Humvee or whether you're on foot, you are actively like patrolling, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're checking your field of fire, you're scanning your thing to be blown up, you're looking at the ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I was, if I was a dude where would I be high?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're going through all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so here I am in a buffalo.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm literally just a passenger trapped.
[SPEAKER_04]: And by the way, they're, uh, they're high up.
[SPEAKER_04]: They got big ass windows tilts over like what are you guys doing and yeah and it's air conditioned So I'm sitting in this thing for the first time and I was like it was really kind of I felt like the way Like a sightseeing person must feel when they go I'm like you're on a double duck deck or bus through London and you're just looking around that's what I felt like
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, and of course the whole time you can still get blown up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And those guys, you know, the heroics of those route clearance guys day after day multiple times a day.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and they would get hit with an IED.
[SPEAKER_04]: Which meant the ID was now cleared and they would continue on the mission nuts.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was freaking nuts.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what you're talking about when you guys would, when you guys would do route clearance, all you're doing is getting in your home v's and following the freaking buffalo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're driving a coffin like we're just waiting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we were just providing support for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if some shit happened, we'd break off and go, go attack the element that attacked them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that way they could finish their mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how those dudes like big props to the engineers, that all those guys that did route clearance every day, like God bless you, like that's those guys, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like talk about a scary job, but I don't know, I tell people that all the time, I'd rather walk naked through her body than drive any day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it was terrifying.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, but I'm thinking for you guys, that's just one of the rotating missions that you did was, oh, by the way, you're going to go to route.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was never like a set.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd get like durations of like set schedules like we had to go to Cop Grant for two weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed to be like shorter durations of missions or hey, come up here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go do a small kill team.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to support this element.
[SPEAKER_01]: This element like it was always like kind of random, which
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of dug because it was never the same thing over and over, which kind of like maybe that's why I like firefighting because it's never the same thing over and over.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you came to my base one time for a briefing.
[SPEAKER_04]: That must have been crazy because also I was really strict with uniforms with my guys when they left my compound.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if they were in my compound, I didn't care.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you want to wear flip flops and you know surf shorts and t-shirt or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just when you go out and you interact with the conventional forces, like you will be in a squared away uniform.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, in a square the way uniform as a seal can put on, which is not that square the way.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you come down there and you, well, well, you like damn, this is seems pretty laid back.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was your impression?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was telling you earlier, like first name bases like that does not happen in the regular army.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you address everyone no matter how close you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: like by ranking it like I don't know was just it was blown away but like just operationally but I believe like to survive you need to be that close knit because during combat it comes down to like it's not right or wrong it's like the dude you're lifting it right like you're not fighting you're not fighting for any political agenda if you're on the right side of history you know like you're fighting to get home like it gets to a point where you're like do if I
[SPEAKER_01]: If I don't, like, sergeant is all it is what I always say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, fight like you're already dead because we are going to die here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you don't perform and the worst thing, the worst action is inaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, especially when you're taking fire, if anything happens, just not being able to decide what to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I learned that early on like from the leadership and the mentorship of them but like seen how you guys operated it was obviously intimidating like you tell anyone like hey we're gonna go to the seal base and of course we're all like you guys better have your shit like wash clean like they're gonna be looking at us because like we're gonna be doing outer court on security for for these guys like so they need to be able to rely on us is intimidating I believe our sniper David Cantor
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe he caught on one of the small kill teams like shot a dude that was like approaching your position with a couple grenades and you guys gave him a coin.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, I don't know, Narlie.
[SPEAKER_04]: You you lost guys those the story and best August fourth.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, not even a couple weeks later, you guys had Sergeant Quick get killed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the ninth August.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we were, we were in the city.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were already out with Quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got woke and up and we're told.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were in our tents.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we got brought in and we were told that like,
[SPEAKER_01]: a quick got hit by platoon's in some shit like and we need to do the QRF like quick reaction force like that's our dudes like everyone just ran out as quick as they could and gotten our homies and just waited and we were idle because they already ex filled them back to the camp and then that's when we were told like story didn't make it there were a couple other guys that were wounded but
[SPEAKER_01]: What was really weird about that operation was it flip-flopped, like red white, red white.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we did that same mission the day before.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Sergeant Quick, like he and I had like a very interesting relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we were in Kuwait one time, I left the quarters without my cover.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was with one of my buddies because you always had to travel in pairs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, where's your fucking cover?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I was just going to take a piss or something like it was like super short gonna go right there and come right back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I told him I was like I forgot there's no excuse Sergeant and he's like I fucking like that answer and I said it's not gonna happen again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like ever since then like him and I had like a pretty cool relationship we would joke around a lot and it was fine when when I was going out on the mission first
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, hey, black, don't let anything happen to yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I do or I don't know what I do with myself if anything happened to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something to that extent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm paraphrasing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so when I saw him the next day and I said, hey, don't let anything happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I do with myself without you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just joking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And fucking that was the last words I ever said to that man.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like we got word that like he passed away.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I was a newly promoted corporal and in the army it's kind of a lateral e-for position like if you show that you're showing signs of like leadership they can laterally promote you know I was like a newly promoted corporal and there and I promise there's a point to this story.
[SPEAKER_01]: So after Sergeant Quick passed away, they called all NCOs to the talk and this was Dan, like Dan pulled us up there and I'm not sure if he mentioned it or
[SPEAKER_01]: anything but he had he called all of us into his room and in the talk it was like the radio room he had his own room and he called us all in there shut the door and do you remember they issued us those stupid side plates like and they were like hey this is like this new thing and I was like I already got birthing hips like I can't wear side plates I can be wider than I already am and so I remember wearing the side plates he called us in there
[SPEAKER_01]: And under his bed, he pulled it out through it in the center of the room.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was Sergeant Quick's IBA.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the correct turn for it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The IBA.
[SPEAKER_01]: Try to remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it was after he'd been hit with grenades.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you could imagine like him placing that in the center of the room and he said, he's blood is on all of your hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what's missing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And one guy, I don't even know who it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like his side plates.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what do you have lived with his side plates?
[SPEAKER_01]: And probably not.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, but you guys need to check each other to make sure you guys are wearing your shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the last time I'm ever going to say it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that the image is just like burned into my brain of like he just died and you're throwing his gear on the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's taken years to like try and realize like,
[SPEAKER_01]: and to try and understand why he did something so like like shock value I guess but it instilled that like this is fucking life or death like you guys need a fucking check each other if you get laxedasical on the protective equipment that we wear it will fucking kill you and it worked yeah like
[SPEAKER_01]: man that was like so fucking brutal and horrific like I don't know it was just that was tough so I remember I was like brand new to this NCO thing like why am I in here and
[SPEAKER_01]: Seeing that I was like fuck man like it's fucking brutal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, those side sappy plates.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember they actually brought a truckload of them down to Cop Falcon.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're at Cop Falcon and they brought a truckload of them down to Cop Falcon and started handing them out together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so what the fuck is this like we're already heavy enough like it's already hard enough to move.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already hard enough to get around.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember they gave us
[SPEAKER_01]: There was like a prototype for, it was a fan.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like this cylindrical device that you could put on the back of your IBA.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we would blow air.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just a fan.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would blow air if you're played there like, hey, you're going to try this out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, whose uncle is making money off of this thing like right now selling this contract to the government.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I'd see like like some gunner on a one third on a one one three or and Dude they would have every piece of body on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You put on the collar thing remember the shoulder pads like
[SPEAKER_01]: groin protect groin protect mine yard so like the gunners would have to wear all that stuff like it like if you were driving um you had to like the side plates were a bitch like trying to drive with those things especially like a radio in the way and this is a freaking pain in the out it was so much gear and it was so freaking hot as hell heavy and your up tempo talk you know you're talking about red going out white going out who are you which one were you in what was red and then how often are you going out
[SPEAKER_01]: Depending on the mission, so sometimes we'd go out together, and then if it was a mission like route clearance, then we'd like switch off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if it was like a small kill team, like just for instance, like that small kill team, but we went first, white went second, or however it played out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was all dependent on what the leaders intent was for that mission and what the operation needed.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you were always on cure off.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, if they were out, then we were always on QRF.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stand and buddy, go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stand and buddy, go one minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: You had to be ready to go engines on ready to take orders.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all we, we were just in our tensile day, especially if our own dudes were out like we were, some guys would just hang out at the Humvees, like when our dudes were out and just play cards, bullshit.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, when I was a kid, I never pictured a war to be like, it's, it's fifty feet away.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's, we're here, we're on a base, we're playing cards, or we're eating chow, or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: But in three minutes, you can be like in a complete, an utter gun fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's shit show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just getting shot, where you don't even know where it's coming from.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, where are the fuck is that, like, where are we getting shot out from?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just wow because it and they'd always fire a couple shots then run so like by the time where you even could like look to see where it was coming from like I'll fuck their gone like very rarely was it like they're gonna shoot and stay there because they know that we're gonna freaking annihilate them like their guns aren't zeroed or
[SPEAKER_01]: and especially like I remember a Bradley one time locked onto a window and just driving like fifty miles an hour just it's barrel followed and just destroyed that window how fast it could go and how ferocious it was I was gnarly yeah probably is a freaking legit crazy crazy fast
[SPEAKER_04]: So in the book, you know, Dan talked about David Dietrich and he was kind of like a kid that was sort of struggling to make it and he finally gets to go out on an operation.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is December, twenty-nineth.
[SPEAKER_04]: He finally gets to go out and you know, Dan sort of like,
[SPEAKER_04]: It's saying, hey, you know, fix your head gear.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I forget it was his head gears, I throw or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Dietrich gives him a big hug.
[SPEAKER_04]: And say, hey, this is the best day of my life, or something along those lines, again, I'm paraphrasing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the kid was totally fired up because he wanted to be a soldier.
[SPEAKER_04]: He wanted to go to combat.
[SPEAKER_04]: He had worked his ass off.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys had been training him and trying to get him up to speed and finally he's up to speed.
[SPEAKER_04]: He goes out and
[SPEAKER_04]: He ends up getting killed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, will you the medic?
[SPEAKER_04]: You were the medic on that operation.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you, what do you remember about it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just for like a little context of that, uh, we were supposed to go home in December because we were, it was a twelve-month order.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got there in January.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were trying to get us home by Christmas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was the river.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like the river mill was always either trying to get us home by Christmas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Third ID should be here.
[SPEAKER_01]: so they should relieve us if not like first thing in January and I forget exactly when I want to say it was around like Thanksgiving and credit to our officers because like they they always said like we're never gonna hide anything from you guys and as soon as they knew they told us they're like hey we're extended for up to three months
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember calling my mom, I'm like, hey, and she thought I was in an aid station anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she had no clue what I was doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I remember calling her, I'm like, hey, they're keeping us here because it was like John McCain, one of the twenty thousand true boost in two thousand seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had to stay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is like, now we've been through all this combat, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: we've lost friends guys have like literally lost body parts like we were just so like tattered I believe one out of every three of us got a purple heart like we were just like trying to get by and then in November it's like hey we're not going home it's like shit okay so every mission after that you're like we should be fucking home by no like this is bullshit like where are we going on these missions
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, and by the way, you know, when I had General McFarlane on here, I forget the exact numbers, but from like the time you extended, the one-one AD loss like another, thirty soldiers.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it wasn't like, oh, we're extended.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have to stay longer.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, no, we're extended.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have to stay longer, and we're gonna continue to have to fight every single day against a determined enemy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait, the weather cooled off.
[SPEAKER_01]: They wanted to kill us.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't a hundred and fuck outside to where they were miserable, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: When it cools down, like they want to get us, like, and they'll wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: They waited for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and on December, twenty-nine, there was, we went to cop firecracker to support the Marines.
[SPEAKER_01]: We pulled up into their AO, and we got this small kill team mission to where we would take over two buildings.
[SPEAKER_01]: We infill that night.
[SPEAKER_01]: As we always did, infill that night and then did our operation throughout the night, got everything set up and I remember I was laying down and then all of a sudden I heard over the radio like we heard the shot so everyone's up and we're like oh fuck and you kind of like sit there because it was just a single shot
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, okay, like, when's it gonna start, like, get it at it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, just all hell breaking loose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very sad up and I'm like, okay, like, let's wait and see like how this plays out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to radio traffic and then go from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I sat up and I forget who's on the right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, hey, we need fucking black over here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, this is bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the way it worked is we had two, we had the two houses.
[SPEAKER_01]: but you had to go outside of the house and turn a corner to get to the other one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was in house, let's say, A, and Dietrich was shot in house B. Well, we would go downstairs and every time we infill that night, we'd take those like big ass zip ties that they'd give us to like, use this handcuffs if we took any prisoners or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just zip tied the door, like completely shut.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at this time, like we're still not hearing anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they were saying that like one of the guys is hit and we didn't know who it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember like cutting like I think it was sergeant Gonzalez or sergeant Peel was like cutting the zip ties off the door.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like fucking hurry up like oh my gosh like get those things off like we need to get to our dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we knew it was a right and a right.
[SPEAKER_01]: so we needed to get out i was in the middle so you get in the middle like so we can watch like because you're not like you're the medic like we need to get you over there so i got in the middle sergeant is all is led uh we made a right made a right we're pounding on the door like hey fucking let us in and you can hear them cutting theirs at ties on their door inside
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just this like masonry building like this concrete like a concrete building.
[SPEAKER_01]: It had a stairway up and then up again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it made like a ninety degree turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we got to the second floor landing, um, they're one of our guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their bag was just holding a Israeli dressing on his head and I'll never forget like the look he gave me.
[SPEAKER_01]: because just the whites of his eyes were like, do what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember I dropped down, I took my shit off, dropped my bag.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing I said is like, where do you get shot from?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said that window over there, and there's a window is probably ten feet away.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, get someone on the fucking window, like, because they're either gonna throw grenades in, because they already know we're in here, or at least get someone over there look.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't take more casualties.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I dropped down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I took the Israeli bandage from bog.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, like, I pulled it back and it was like, if, if you had to describe it, it was just like a human brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked like someone mixed like jello and like chicken fat and just like the amount of heat that was leaving his body was like insane because a lot of heat leaves through your head.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I peel it back and it's just like steaming like you just took the pot off of like boiling water and
[SPEAKER_01]: I put the dress back on his head.
[SPEAKER_01]: I grabbed his hand because he was still shaking and I said, hey, Dietrich, if you can hear me squeeze my hand because he was still breathing and he didn't give a response.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, buddy, if you can hear me squeeze my hand, please, we're going to get you out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, place the dressing back on, wrap it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's still like losing heat.
[SPEAKER_01]: I throw a collar around his neck, and I just remember I was like, hey, someone gave me the litter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone threw a litter on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he started to do, when you have severe brain damage, your body starts to get into what they call like, de-corder pit, and de-server, posturing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd only read about it in books like from like the military training and He started like posturing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like oh shit like this is bad We get him on the litter and as we're carrying him down the stairs that like aggressive turn from upstairs like on the landing We couldn't get all of us to carry him at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like fucking given to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I grabbed him and
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just started carrying him down the stairs and I said, let's put him back on the litter when we get outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carry him downstairs.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just like, putting matter like all over me, just shit everywhere where we put him back on the litter.
[SPEAKER_01]: like, hey, I need four guys to tell me, carry him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is when like Dan was at the end of the row.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was probably like a quarter mile away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we were in the middle of freaking nowhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get down.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's posturing now.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's posturing in.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like shaky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like fucked.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's fucking like this is, this is horrific.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, Dietrich, you're good, dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're already outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get you out of here, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: And fucking, then grenade star popping off.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just the fucking machine gunfire.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know where the fuck it was coming from.
[SPEAKER_01]: My only concern was him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I covered him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just blocking him because I didn't know where shit was coming from.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, hey, fucking pop smoke.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I tell you like our leadership over there was fucking top notch like they they took care of us like they were the most brutal like war fighters that you could ever imagine that could make decisions under pressure for the greater good of the platoon and and us they knew to pop smoke they had communications with getting him
[SPEAKER_01]: out of there and they lay down suppressing fire like it was just so perfectly coordinated that we were able to like pick him up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pick him up.
[SPEAKER_01]: We ran him out of there and got him off to the aid station, but it was
[SPEAKER_01]: then we had to run back to caught firecracker and that like we're still in the middle of the fucking city it's like do what the fuck like we know they're out here they we know they're watching us the streets are empty like you know some shit's gonna go down and all the kids leave like when the kids are playing outside it's like oh dude nothing's gonna happen now
[SPEAKER_01]: When all the kids leave the street you're like, oh fuck, like what's gonna happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when people start emptying the street, but Lieutenant O'Harris asked me, he's like, do you feel okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, he's never gonna be Dietrich again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they call this
[SPEAKER_01]: They call this into a meeting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was in like one of the top stories like Hot Firecracker and they let us know that he passed away and I was like fuck man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I I just start crying like I didn't know I didn't know what to do like I felt like I failed him like I like why
[SPEAKER_01]: Why didn't I save him?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was my job.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was all I was over there to do was like to save lives and then to compound off of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was story best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why didn't I see that ID?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why did I say it quick?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know what I do with myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: If someone happened to you, like, that, like, like, this is fucking hell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why am I here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what am I doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just want to, like, quit and give up because they just keep coming for you fucking day after day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then not, but like, three days later, Rob Clarence mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, like, that I am going to fucking die over here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all I was, I remember telling myself, like, thank God, like, I don't have kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like, thank God, I don't have a fucking life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, my mom will be sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, dude, like, this is, this is the fucking hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was brutal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had nothing ever prepared for you for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you prepare for that?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, watch your friends pass away.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fucked up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you take leave?
[SPEAKER_04]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you go home for two weeks, did you do that at some point during that deployment?
[SPEAKER_01]: I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't July.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd still, we were in Ramodian.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when we were just getting peppered by the IED.
[SPEAKER_01]: every once in a while, and my first day back, I want to say it was July, twenty-fourth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we were doing, we were over by the university once again, and this is like kind of taking it back.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we're back in July.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were driving by the university, and I was the tail vehicle, and all of a sudden, like the vehicle in front of me just blows up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I couldn't like, I didn't hear anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was the vehicle directly in front of me, just unlike I have never in my life experienced or seen just kinetic raw energy blow a solid Humvee just into pieces, just obliterated it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, how like the Humvee window, like the windshields are flat and are married.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm tall.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to like bend over and I looked up and I'm just watching like shrapnel flying the air and it hits me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh fuck our dudes, like our dudes are inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my first day back off the leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like I just did hang out with my grandma, my uncle's asking for storage.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm kind of shit getting in over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like fuck yeah, like he's all into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Sergeant Marco told me he's like you stay right fucking there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do not get out because they were planning the secondary IDs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we thought it was like the primary waiting for the secondary.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were four people in that vehicle at that time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Sergeant Gonzalez.
[SPEAKER_01]: he gets out of the vehicle he's on fire like he's jumping on the ground like rolling around there's another guy his name was Robertson or Robinson he was a replacement and another dude he was in the back seat he got out and he was like trying to kick himself away from the Humvee because now it's cooking off no movement from the driver door and the gunner was thrown
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Sergeant Marco gets out and we're still right by the university, so I'm like, holy shit, we're in a horrible spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can see us from everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: My gunner, Nina, and I was like, dude, I'm getting out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nina's like, if you get out, I'll shoot you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm just sitting there holding my aid bag like just ready to go and it felt like eternity I'm like dude just like let me go finally he turns around he's like come up and Strickland wasn't getting out of the vehicle so we like we open or I open the door it's just like shit's popping off it's on fire
[SPEAKER_01]: Strictly not always drive with his arm up on the radio so I opened the door he's kind of like hunched over and I remember I just grabbed him like by the the handle on his back
[SPEAKER_01]: pulled him out like he was weightless like just so much fucking adrenaline that I had and I was pulling him off like out of the Humvee and I looked down I'll never forget like I was dragging him and I looked down on his arm is hanging on by like just the skin like and I was dragging it in the dirt so I had to like pick him up on my chest and like I said like weightless picked it up patched him up I
[SPEAKER_01]: Robertson, his foot was like blown open, had a gnarly head wound, patched him up, went over to Gonzalez, I'm like, where are you fucking hit?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, my legs, my legs, he kept saying his legs, and I couldn't find anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we got everyone out of there in like thirteen minutes, like it was super fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was like my introduction back from leave and that was and like where was thrown the gunner I believe he broke his pelvis or his legs like he was just thrown super far but those were like
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was gnarly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the reason I asked is we, well, first of all, in the sealed teams, and in the Marine Corps, we do shorter deployments than you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we do like six or seven month deployments.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys are doing freaking twelve, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen month deployments.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so you guys get leave in the middle of it, which I honestly don't know, like,
[SPEAKER_04]: That seems like it'd be really psychologically hard to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go home and just be... There's nothing normal for two weeks and then especially like you're gonna go back and you know what you're getting into, that seems like it'd be really hard to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were stories of guys that just didn't come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, yeah, like they left there because you'd go to Kuwait and like check in all your stuff and fly home and they just never would come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just stories I never personally witnessed it, but I can see how that way happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I know for me it would be the guilt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I wouldn't want, like I wouldn't want another medic unless it was like doc here and there with my guys because I was like if anyone's working on him it's going to be me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I took at least like some pride in, like if my guys are going like I'm going to and it
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I hope I did a good job and goodbye by them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Looking back, you can always like pick apart everything like maybe if I would have done this, maybe if I would have done that, but you just end up in this cycle of like self-loving that is not good, it's not healthy and it just, it's toxic and it's like I just became a fucking miserable person like just
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like survival skill survivors guilt for one is was like a huge thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like fuck I wish I would have died because some of those guys had wives and kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then part of you is like I wish I would have died.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like fuck I could probably I could probably do that now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could probably still kill myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's I know it's like taboo to like talk about it but it's the reality of everything because the brain is a very very scary device and the way that it's wired that if you tell yourself something enough times like you'll actually start to think it's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And over time I wouldn't talk about things that were actually like going on in my head and like thoughts that I would have and it just compounded on top of itself on top of like my job like horrific shit that I'd see at work that would bring up like old memories like this still to this day the smell of a burning vehicle I have to like
[SPEAKER_01]: Take a second be like, okay, I'm not there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not in Iraq because that smell was the first time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, in Iraq was the first time I smelled the burning vehicle and my brain associates that with my dead friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: So luckily, like over time, I've told myself, like, all right, if I smell it, like, it's not I'm not there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it can just be a roller coaster of like pain and anguish, and I became a pretty terrible person.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not only like myself, but to be around, but I just want to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wish back then, like looking back, hindsight's always twenty twenty.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I would have gotten the help that I needed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I would have been honest, because I was going to the therapist, but I was never like one hundred percent transparent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I would never go to I wouldn't show up to the therapist and be like hey, I watch videos online of Humvee's getting blown up and wishing that I was in the Humvee.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, because I was scared of them saying, like, you need to get locked up in treatment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I would never tell them, like, hey, I, I fascinate with, like, killing myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always like, I'm good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, like, how are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, I'm good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Doing good.
[SPEAKER_01]: The anti-depressants are working.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they fucking weren't.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were not working.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they were making it worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to the point like I would just go years with just saying I was okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I fucking wasn't okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I wish I would have reached out to my friends and been like, hey man, are you going through this too?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm like super infatuated with like any of my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would never tell anyone that, but I also like got off on it because it was my secret.
[SPEAKER_01]: like I just held on to like it was like it was a sense of power.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in reality, I was just losing it like every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the therapy that they explain that like your neurons can get like rewired.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you go through something like so traumatic, like
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what happened on Iraq, it's not necessarily the events that happened in Iraq.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's when your brain was developing.
[SPEAKER_01]: The seed was planted.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I lost my friends there, your brain associates that with possibly my dad leaving.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went to therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I ended up having to go to thirty days in Utah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're now in the mindset of accepting that, you're going to die.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I thought I thought I was dying over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then so how is, you know, your power and through you're going in the field every day or every other day at a minimum, you're on cure after sitting in over watch positions, you're doing route clearance.
[SPEAKER_04]: And every time you go out, it's like the gut wrenching, like, oh, yeah, this, you know, probably coming today.
[SPEAKER_01]: You had a point where you're so numb, you're like, fuck it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like, if I'm going to die, it's how.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hope it's glorious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you get, it's twisted.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you look at, you don't even look at as horrible as it sounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the population there, you don't even look at it as like humans.
[SPEAKER_01]: You look at them as like a threat.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the way that you would like view another human being.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was totally different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the
[SPEAKER_01]: Just the parallels that have been like from getting there being like yeah, hearts and minds like I'm a medic I can actually help people community medicine to like I need to like either kill everyone Just to make it back home or I need to find a way out of here like just the Two extreme parallels that I never thought I'd get into like my brain wasn't I don't think of quit like deal with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize what I was getting myself into
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, I was having a conversation with a Marine that was in Ramadi with us and he had hard time coming home and I was like, bro, it's not normal.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not normal for a person to like risk their life every single day and watch their friends and their troops and people that rely on and people that they're responsible for to die.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: repeatedly like that's not hey I get it you know everyone experiences death you know if you're a hunter you go out you killed you know you go you kill an elk you kill a deer if you're a farmer you you know a rancher you kill a cattle if you're a normal person you know your parents get old and they die you know occasionally someone you know gets sick and a tort terrible situation and they die but like to just
[SPEAKER_04]: be surrounded like when I was a kid I had I had a friend that died I think he had some kind of a heart problem and this was maybe in fourth or fifth grade and you know it was like shocking
[SPEAKER_04]: But that was one kid and you're a little kid.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even think you're really old enough to process it yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: But when you're in combat in Ramadi and it's like, oh, oh, another person just died today.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, let's go to another memorial service.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, another, oh, now it's one of my friends.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's another memorial service every other over and over and over and over again.
[SPEAKER_04]: That shit's not normal.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so for people to
[SPEAKER_04]: for people to get tripped up and be like oh well number one I'm gonna die and if I don't die then there's something wrong with me because yeah I should be dying and there's no I'm gonna make it home anyways and by the way these people that are trying to kill us fuck all them hate up hate them and you know people talk about like oh you know you know like the Vietnam vets will go back to Vietnam and people like oh John could you ever want to go back to the lake I reckon I'm like no no
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what about when you're older?
[SPEAKER_04]: I am older.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to go back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's not happening.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to go there.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so as you're, what happened mentally like as you started getting short as all of a sudden, it's like, oh, you think you might actually be going home.
[SPEAKER_01]: to insult the injury I was stopped lost twice because my ETS date was in October because I signed up October of two thousand three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I signed a three year contract so I was supposed to go home October of six like that was my ETS date.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our deployment started in January saw a stop lost until the duration of like the end of the deployment and the night out process.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got extended.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got stopped lost again.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, hey, you're extended out another time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, god, like, I'm gonna get caught up, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was at the point like, man, I just need to get the fuck out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just need to get home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you, I didn't have a plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no clue what I was gonna do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just need to get the fuck out of her body.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was my plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally, it came down, like, we got the orders, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: We're packing up all our shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're giving all the home fees to the Iraqi army So like and kind of and you get like insulted you're like fuck dude I worked on that thing for a fucking year like that's my baby like that thing kept me alive for a year and now we're just gonna hand it off and they're gonna shit all over it
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we saw that with all the gear in it and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we turned in and then our mirror like starting to pack up the connexes to go home to get through customs and like at what point did you stop running operations and how much more time did you have the pack?
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe we stopped running operations and I'm sure Dan could answer it like we got home on Valentine's Day in O six So I want to say like mid-February so we probably stopped running operations about two weeks before that two to three weeks before that so at that point you kind of knew you kind of like thought you made it
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the anticipation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, hey, it looks like we might be going home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we started to see the rumor mill is terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: We started to see the third ID con access showing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh fuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get the fuck out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we had our last mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: They said that was it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Start packing up your shit and I was so fucking I was like I cannot wait to get the fuck out of the army.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not for me like this is like and maybe if I didn't deploy my wife has asked me like do you think you would have stayed in the military?
[SPEAKER_01]: and I tell her if it wasn't for combat maybe because it was such it was a cool career like you you're told what to do when to do how to do it like everything is very structured you know like what's going on but
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize like the combat just like I can't do this again and I and just so you know that was not a normal tour like at all yeah realizing that now I'm like really shit like that was man that was fucking brutal like the just brutality of man like just I don't know like
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to not think about it and like associate it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a weird dynamic for the SEAL team.
[SPEAKER_04]: So when we were wrapping up deployment and we're coming over with the guys from SEAL team five and
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess one different very different dynamic I suppose there's gonna be some people in the army that you would know the people that are coming to replace you might know a few of them but but like in the seal teams we know these guys like there
[SPEAKER_04]: They're like our friends and it was you know when I had a Elliott and Joe who are you know, we were talking about warfare the most those are the two guys are wounded on that operation But Just knowing these guys and knowing that what they're getting into and there's no way you can convey it to them like I literally told them I was the task of your commander I literally told them I'm like you guys are going to take casualties and you know just talking to them like yeah, we were like
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, you know kind of almost didn't believe me and and I can see that you know and you're like you got it like everything you can do like pay attention everything and so when you're leaving these guys it's like the most horrible feeling because It's almost like you know and you know that they don't quite know yet and
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, it just feels terrible.
[SPEAKER_04]: It'd be like, you know, if you're watching something bad happen and your kids are there and you're like, all right, I'm just gonna leave now and there's nothing you can do to help.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what it felt like.
[SPEAKER_04]: We didn't want to leave, and then you also know like, well, you can't stay.
[SPEAKER_04]: It ain't happening.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was a horrible feeling, even those guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you can only express it so much like, hey, because there was like that phase, the transition phase where like, hey, this is, this is what we did, this is what worked for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pay attention to this radio frequencies that like you're trying to pass along information, but there's no, there's no way to prepare you for what was outside of those fucking wires and reminding you.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you get on the bird in your head and home.
[SPEAKER_04]: How's that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I went from being Sergeant Black in Ramadi Iraq in February to Rob Black out of the military in April.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was about a six week transition because we got we got back out processed
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was back home with my mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was, it was just like culture shock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there wasn't really a huge like transition period.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember just everything pissed me off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have a plan?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not really.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew that I wanted to go to school.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I knew that I wanted to do something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had that EMT card from going to medical schools.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, shit, I'll get a job on an ambulance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got hired at care ambulance, which was
[SPEAKER_01]: an ambulance service on originally county and I worked there for several years and I worked with some guys like hey man like wanting to go to paramedic school I was like shit that's actually pretty good idea and then in paramedic school guys are like hey man like why don't you try the fire service kind of sounds kind of cool
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just kind of happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was never that kid that like grew up like playing with fire trucks or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it ended up being like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my background was always like medical.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got like into the dorky stuff, like the parametric and stuff, which I still loved of this day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I helped teach it the community college when I can on days off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was a rough transition because I felt
[SPEAKER_01]: I always walked around with a chip on my shoulder, like everyone owed me something, or people should respect me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just remember someone told me one time, nobody owes you fucking anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: like and it's true like say what you want like the world does not owe you shit and I don't care who you are what you've been through like the world does not owe you anything and nobody is going to tip to around you and that was a hard life lesson for me to learn because I was like yeah I've been through combat like I've been in the shit now that it's over I can be like Billy Badass you know what I mean like talked about it in the past tense when like several months ago I was like God I just want to get out of your life like
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just it's wild like and it even seems like a fairy tale sometimes like talking about it Just like how how everything like transpired and how everything like worked out That's just it's kind of hard to believe sometimes because even like when guys like I'll work with some guys I'm like you were in the army
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're fucking weird.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and again, it's not like you were just in the army.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you were a freaking, you know, you were the combat medical badge.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, that means you were working on people in the shit under fire.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what that means.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, what's like, you know, you're talking about these feelings that you're having when you get home.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's what we call PTSD, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what we call it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're working as a medic.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is your life look like?
[SPEAKER_04]: And what does PTSD do into your PTSD doing to your brain while you're healthy now?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're twenty-four years old?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was twenty two because I was twenty one during the deployment.
[SPEAKER_01]: I literally got out of the military in April and I got hired by Karen June.
[SPEAKER_01]: So within a matter of like five months, I went from like I said, Sergeant Black to Rob Black.
[SPEAKER_01]: driving an ambulance around L.A.
[SPEAKER_04]: and Orange County and you're rolling up on car accidents, rolling up on morbidly obese people that are freaking covered in their own shit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, every day.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just like, yeah, I've seen this shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are my favorite.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just kidding.
[SPEAKER_01]: the same people that call over and over and over again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the EMS system is it's wild and little did I know that that was compounding what had what had already happened to me because like I said, you're just reliving it in a different aspect over and over again over and over again and
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, I wish I would have gotten help because it came to a breaking point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like eventually, like after I met my wife, I was drinking a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: There'd be times where I would drink like every day constantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there'd be times where I just wouldn't drink.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my mind would just go crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what does your mind go in crazy?
[SPEAKER_01]: What was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Just grabbed that to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to process like all this information, like I had so many thoughts going on that I could never get anything organized.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I would always get like hyper fixated on one thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd get distracted and be like, okay, I need to do this and and I used alcohol to kind of like call myself down.
[SPEAKER_01]: because that was all I knew.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't know what you don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, a barrel just helped me calm down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'd get excessive with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just like most veterans, you struggle with some substance abuse stuff and I'd abuse it and just drink a lot until I'd black out because that was the only thing that would help me sleep at night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I would wake up
[SPEAKER_01]: I would wake up during the day and I would beg for night time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be like, man, I just can't wait to take my Benadryl's second fucking... just not be awake anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I hated myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just did not... I... I would wake up, look at myself in the mirror and be like, I fucking hate you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like who are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was just miserable because I just could not I could not like organize my thoughts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just all over the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was miserable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was toxic to other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I would I would talk down to other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that I was better than other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just things that were so unhealthy when I was the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this is a me problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not at anyone else problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, it wasn't until like, um, I ended up meeting my wife and tail as all this time we met on Tinder.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a true romance.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, it's Tinder like the pure hookup one.
[SPEAKER_04]: You carried out a tell me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's like pure like you're just going there kind of hookup.
[SPEAKER_02]: And though, it, it, it was, it was kind of the only game in town for a little while.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you add all these other little services crop up and then Tinder became kind of the hookup one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I talked to the young guys at work.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of shit out there now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like fishing a barrel, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all the young firemen, they're like audience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they live by cariously through them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't even imagine like the dating scene nowadays.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we met, she's a horse girl.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you ever love the rough touch of a woman, like, data horse girl, she's actually trailering down.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's competing in in Delmore.
[SPEAKER_01]: This week, so she's training on a co-estrian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so she does like hunter jumper, like so she jumps the fence.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's actually like super talented.
[SPEAKER_01]: She qualified for freaking nationals in Las Vegas.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a stud man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, if you saw how do you manage to freaking pull that off?
[SPEAKER_04]: Dude, you're drinking and freaking being depressed and acting crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what did disaster?
[SPEAKER_01]: She likes fixing me up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: She loves hot messes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to talk about she's a freaking lawyer too.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's an attorney like full blown doctorate attorney like if you I know I'm fighting out of my way class like you'll see a picture of me and her and you know what it what is she doing with him like what's wrong with her so when you meet her how will be you and you meet her I was
[SPEAKER_01]: I was ten years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how is it right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thirty.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm forty now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I age like three or thirty years old.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're thirty years old and when you meet her, you still drink and you're still feeling like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but she was drinking too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we were a fireman and a attorney living in an apartment together with nothing to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're just partying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, where's the next party at?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, uh, going to San Pedro, hitting like the fish markets, just drinking all day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, uh, she calls me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a funny story.
[SPEAKER_01]: She sends me a text message of a positive pregnancy test.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was driving on the eight freeway
[SPEAKER_01]: to get my physical for work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wrote back, and if you know our dynamic of our relationship, she jokes a lot too.
[SPEAKER_01]: She would fit in very well with police, fire, military, like that kind of culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wrote back, ha ha fuck you.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then like I didn't hear anything and I'm on my way to the physical and she calls me she's like this is not a fucking joke I'm pregnant this is not a drill I'm like as like there's there's no way like what are you talking about your pregnant and I had to pull over and I puked on the side of the world I went to my physical my blood pressure was like one ninety over something like and that the poor girl like in taking me like checking me and she said are you okay like you do not like look okay I said
[SPEAKER_01]: I know this is weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just found out that my girlfriend is pregnant and I don't know what I'm doing with my life like wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was like the start of our relationship and we have been together ever since when did you get married?
[SPEAKER_01]: We got married when she was pregnant when she got pregnant.
[SPEAKER_04]: and then at what point so you're a firefighter now you're married it's I think you know whatever you're married you've got to get on the way um it seems like you're going in pretty good like from the outside you're a firefighter she's a lawyer she's in the classroom master you got to get on the way you're now married like you're kind of like if you want if you paint that picture
[SPEAKER_04]: for a human being in Southern California, you're set for life.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you're in the top, you know, one percent of life winners, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You would think, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what it looks like from the outside, but what's going on in the inside?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what that's where like the whole factor of like just struggling with like the PTSD kicks in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was the weirdest thing like, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: We get married.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have our daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not drinking as much like I'll have some drinks like when the baby goes to bed whatever but then like the dark thoughts start creeping in like I'm like fuck man like why do I deserve this life?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about framing right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So like what you're talking about like damn you have like the perfect life on paper I'm like yeah, but why do I deserve this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that terrible?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like isn't that a terrible like viewed a half of the world?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why am I here now and we made the decision we're like, well, I mean, you know, she needs a she needs someone to play with so we had another kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had as a second daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: so it all came to a head like and it was never anything that was like line in the sand like you're fucking up like you're you're doing this it was all tiny little things like hey we don't do that anymore because I'd leave for my shift I'd come home and it would always be like oh no like she doesn't eat that anymore okay well it's been three days like I'm trying to catch up I was always trying to play catch up like I was like I was this part-time dad that was just filling in for a couple days just to leave again
[SPEAKER_01]: and she was at home working full-time as an attorney taking care of two kids like she's just eating it in the face like just she's doing everything like rock star and then I come in and just screw everything up but it's all up here in my head that I'm screwing it up when in all actuality I was just I was present like and I was there
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I would get in my own head and be like, man, I'm such a failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't deserve this life, like, like you said on paper, like, I have a wife, a house, a family, like we got the dogs, we got the horses, like everything is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But inside, I just, I lost it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it, it came down to like one day, like I would get like super infatuated with like,
[SPEAKER_04]: Killing myself like just to be and you guys had There's I remember Dan talked about this and he's gotten his book, but Diaz and Rogers had two guys that were in that troop with you guys in her body.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and they both killed themselves Yes Diaz was in the two thousand eighteen and Rogers was in twenty twenty one Did you hear about Diaz at this time?
[SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't happen
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and did that like seem like oh there you go like this is this is a this is a possible and that's what I'm saying is like you're you're a product of your environment and like you surround yourself with it like you hear you hear the things I go twenty two a day like guys are killing some of the time and you feel like that's like you're only like recourse or you're only answer and like the self-loving builds up you get in your own head
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to therapy but not being honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm on these antidepressants that are making me feel like not only tired all the time, but they're making me have like these lucid dreams that are like, can these therapists just sorry for him?
[SPEAKER_04]: Can these therapists like do they not?
[SPEAKER_04]: Are they not able to be like ask a couple questions where
[SPEAKER_04]: You get trapped some way we kind of have to admit to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I wish no because like you're just like because I was today on fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I was not fucking fine and I wasn't honest and Feel free to interrupt me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's literally your show.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it that's what it says.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it, it was the strangest thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we went to the Orange County Fair in twenty nineteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was around this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like July of twenty nineteen and all I did was like, I pulled one of the girls out of the car seat and I put her in the wrong side.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like because they have like their designated sides and I'm like, oh crap, I did that wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all day I just got my own head like, shit man, like I can't do anything right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why can I not do anything right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had like the picture perfect day at the OC fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just had a great time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good family day stuff pictures from it like it was incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all of a sudden like something in my brain fucking switched and and I know that like my daughters will hear this one day, but like I remember looking at them at the rear view mirror and
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said the answer is like, everyone would be so much happier if I was gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, because then there wouldn't be these problems of me like choosing the wrong seat or like, you know, I got them like the wrong bottle or I got in the wrong food.
[SPEAKER_01]: All these things have just seemed so like minuscule like in the totality that is life, but like in my own head I was like totally screwing everything up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still remember looking at them like in the car seats because we have like the backwards facing mirrors and like looking at them be like damn they're gonna be so happy when I'm gone and then I got this like this period of like a nation because I finally had the answer I was like oh I'm gonna fucking kill myself and I was even my wife was like god you've been in such a good mood like you're so like
[SPEAKER_01]: delightful to be around and I'm like, yeah, because you don't know what's coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm going to fucking off myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in my wife knows everything, I've been very, very open about everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if anyone's listening to this and like you're having these thoughts too, like reach out, please, because I promise you it gets better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it is your own brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that there's something wrong with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just your brain trying to understand what happened and makes sense of what you're going through and how to get past it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just simply an understanding thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can be taught and walk through delicately through clinician work.
[SPEAKER_01]: and be guided through this and there is hope and you do matter and do not, please do not kill yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: What made you, okay, did you come up with a plan?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay tomorrow night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have a, I have
[SPEAKER_01]: And like there would be nights where I'd like go in there and I would like check the closet and I'd just like hold the pistol and she'd be like asleep in the bed and just feeling the weight of it was like empowering.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'd like hold the clip in another hand and like yeah I'm about to fucking rock this through my brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was dark, but then when you're in that state, it sounded like a good idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it sounded like, hey, do you wanna come on the Jocco podcast?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, yeah, that sounds cool and healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it made sense to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, my brain was wired.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is the answer, and this is gonna fix everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is how I'm gonna get out of this situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it sounded like, like, you and me talking right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it sounded like totally normal and healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it is terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one thing about the human brain is it can get rewired and just become a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I would get all my phone and watch videos of like, uh, do's getting blown up and I rack again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was taking myself back there, like watching those old sniper videos of like the Muxia Dean, like all, like all the stuff that I'm sure you've seen, like from the other side, like, and just got like, like I said, like, infatuated with it and it was terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So finally came to a head and I ended up needing treatment.
[SPEAKER_04]: How did you, like, what was the, the, the turning point where you said, you know what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Instead of me freaking killing myself, I'm going to, who'd you talk to to talk to your wife or what'd you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's I took a bunch of gabapen, I took a bunch of zooloft, slow gabapen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's used for several different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: My doctor prescribed it for anxiety.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I took a bunch of it to like numb myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I drank a ton of vodka and I was gonna do it then, but I got so like so jacked up, I can go through with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I ended up getting transported to the hospital and then in there that's when my wife said like you, you need help.
[UNKNOWN]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So thankfully you got two freaking, you got, you blocked out, you passed out and then your wife, you need to go to the hospital to take your hospital and she's like, yo, you need to freaking out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I wouldn't have an ambulance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the real deal.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what is the process now?
[SPEAKER_04]: So what happened after that?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think you said you went to Utah for treatment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I ended up going to Utah for why Utah, like you're in California, why is there some special program out there or something?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there was it's a place called Dear Hollow.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I will say one thing like the fire service in a hole is kind of made like the whole mental thing mental health thing like kind of not taboo anymore and like we're we're openly talking about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my department specifically like it kudos to them and I'm not trying to like blow rainbows up there skirt or anything but like the notifications were made that like
[SPEAKER_01]: I had this incident and they said, okay, send him to wherever he needs to get help and we'll deal with everything later.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put me off on leave the proper notifications were made and I got connected to this place in Utah that could help me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there something specific about that place?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there like they homes or yeah they help veterans fire EMS like I got up there and they had like patches from all over the country like with police fire EMS like it just helps a bunch of like that community and I got there and like what am I doing here like I'm gonna lose my family I remember getting on the plane like
[SPEAKER_01]: What have I done?
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just screwed up my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: How am I ever going to be able to face my wife again?
[SPEAKER_01]: Face my kids again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of shame and shame is just something that's extremely toxic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's out there in the ether.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very very like embarrassing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did your wife know about like the suicidal thoughts or did she just think you're just now call like you're being an idiot?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she she just thought I had a fucking problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so now when you get up there you check into this place like what?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know this process and I think you said it was education and rewiring of the brain, but like how do they do that?
[SPEAKER_04]: What does that sound like?
[SPEAKER_04]: What are they talking about?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is your day sound look like?
[SPEAKER_01]: So initially it was you'd wake up, do breakfast, and you're all living together, and everyone has like different stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'd wake up, you'd do your counseling sessions, your therapy sessions, and it was, have you heard a MDR?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the right flashing red lights or something like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I believe what it's, uh, I forget exactly what it stands for, but it's like a kind of like hypnotizing therapy where they wave your fingers in front of your face.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's for like rapid eye movement.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's supposed to like help you recall like events.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so up there, I guess it was neither.
[SPEAKER_04]: I said flashing lights or magnets.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I've had a bunch of friends go to all different kinds of treatments.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I fought a NDR was one of those years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it, and it sounds like a bunch of like my wife calls it Hocus Pocus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, she, she'd, she'd,
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like if it works for you that's great, but like that's like not for me, but they dug up a lot of stuff like from my childhood that affected me that that was like the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the Iraq stuff was just like insult to injury.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like re-breaking and arm.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like you need help from like your childhood memories.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then it went from like like Iraq was like not even
[SPEAKER_01]: what they were focused on whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_01]: But living in the community, they're watching everything about you and how you operate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, yeah, you're your childhood with screw up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have serious abandoned issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, that's why you joke so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why you try and make everyone laugh because you're scared that everyone's going to leave you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: like it it's crazy what they did in that environment but you're constantly around counselors for twenty four seven three sixty five one-on-one counseling talking to other other members there but it also gives you the time to like decompress and be like what am I doing they they invited my wife up there um so uh she had my mother-in-law and father-in-law watch the kids she flew up to Utah
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't know that they were planning this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, I mean why we're for fighting like obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went up there and we did like a skit and it was like, okay, like let's pretend like you two are in like a lover's quarrel and like it started with a skit and it ended up with like
[SPEAKER_01]: uh me telling and I forget like how it transpired and she's like well what the hell like why can't you just deal with your problems I said what the fuck do you want me to say do you want me to tell you that like for the past several years I've wanted to blow my fucking brains out like is that what you want for me like and it turned in to like this scenario to her like leaving and crying
[SPEAKER_01]: And we sat outside on like the lawn.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, look, I'm fucking sorry that I'm like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't deserve this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you as a person do not deserve this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't deserve to be put through this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we have children together.
[SPEAKER_01]: You deserve to be happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not pulling my weight as a partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel terrible because I'm just I'm not pulling my weight for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: she I don't know why she stuck through with me but she did say she's like if you continue your shit like if you don't get help and you're not honest with therapists like you will like we're gonna be gone like I'm not gonna have you around our kids because I was it was just so fucking bad but like that that thirty days up in Utah kind of like helped me decompress constantly being around the therapist
[SPEAKER_01]: that's when like the cat was out of the bag I'm like okay I'm fucking suicidal like they're like okay well like what makes you think about that so like what you were speaking about earlier like why don't therapists like trapew well now the secret was out like this guy
[SPEAKER_01]: gets on these like rangers where he just drinks until he's so known that he doesn't think about his problems and then he wants to kill himself so they already knew the path I was going down so like my guard was down like they already knew how to attack me and they just broke it down like piece by piece by piece over the thirty days and I my wife came up it was it was horrible like just
[SPEAKER_01]: Watching her go through that like and knowing that she stuck with me like I don't I could never I could never repay her for that like being that mother my kids and then going to that bullshit and like just me being a mess why
[SPEAKER_01]: Just cause I have like fucking daddy issues from when I was a kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: They got like perpetuated by like shit that happened in Iraq and then I was feeling all sorry for myself and like none of the shit that happened to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I would have been an adult about it and actually took it head on and said I have these problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a me problem and I need to fix it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have never gotten to this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also think if I never got to this point, I wouldn't have the life that I have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like now that we had our son, our marriage is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's riding horses like I do not drink anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: I take my medicine as prescribed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm honest with my, my doctor is like, hey, yeah, I'm having some fucking down days.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, well, like, and now it,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of funny because like now they're like, well, are you thinking about, you know, and I'm like, no, I'm not like, like the trended diffusable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we went to go see that warfare movie, my wife is like, are you sure?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, I'm ready.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I can handle things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just handle everything up front now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a long time ago I had a friend Peter at the on the podcast and he was a ER doctor in Baltimore in like when Baltimore was just like the worst area.
[SPEAKER_04]: And one thing that he said was that when families would like to have someone get shot, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: If the family, if the family was like a little bit of a solid family,
[SPEAKER_04]: losing someone from their family would make them tighter.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if the family was like, had little fractures in it, then having someone in the family get killed would make the family like explode.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I thought that was a very close correlation to like kind of what you're saying, which is people that you're in the military, you're going through something or you're a firefighter, you're a police officer, or you're just going through life,
[SPEAKER_04]: And you have something in your past that's like a little crack right like a little crack you had with your dad leave in and you don't know what's going on your eight years old you have a little crack and when you get put into the fire of of combat it's like all of a sudden that crack just opens up right and gets worse and then
[SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like you not like just trying to pretend that the crack's not there and just act like it's not there and just kind of turn your head to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just gets worse and worse and worse.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there's a freaking crack here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's getting worse.
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to get it together.
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to put some cement in there.
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to freaking fill it in and make it solid again.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's a huge piece of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And just the way you're saying this stuff, like being able to reframe the way you look at things, like isn't it crazy to think the way your thought process was?
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I've got a beautiful wife and two kids and a great job.
[SPEAKER_04]: and I don't deserve this because my friends that didn't come home they should be here and said to me as opposed to hey I've got a great job a great wife I got two kids now three kids I'm doing my best to earn the fact that I got to kick come home and I hope my guys are proud of me like that
[SPEAKER_04]: Those are two just totally opposing frames that you can put on the world that you're in.
[SPEAKER_04]: And do you think that, I guess this is my question, how do you grab control of that wave, that frame that you're going to put on things?
[SPEAKER_04]: Does somebody external have to help you with that?
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you make that happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the factor for me was like the external factor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I had that event happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish from the beginning, because I always felt like it would have been an impediment on my wife and the kids, like, hey, I need to go get treatment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she would have said, what you need to leave for thirty days?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you get a thirty day vacation?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just I always, I didn't want to ask for anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like being in the way of anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like being a problem for anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one of my biggest, like, flaws is I hate asking for help.
[SPEAKER_01]: I even noticed that, like in my day, like even in my job, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's something like dirty hoses or something that I need help with or like getting paid out, I hate inconveniencing people and that's a me problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because normally people would want to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey man, like can you help me go, like it'll go a lot faster if you help me like come clean this hose or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just didn't want to be an inconvenience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to get in anyone's way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like what you're saying framing perspective, it's one hundred percent that because it's not that I don't deserve the life that I have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do deserve it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's been a bumpy road to get here, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wish I was honest with myself before.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if I would be here unless that happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that's very like contradictory and like all over the place, but it's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: It took me having a mental breakdown wanting to end my own life.
[SPEAKER_01]: to get down to the foundation to like rebuild the home.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's true, like families that are, that are like tight knit, like now with me and my wife, it's like, okay, well, we can handle, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the kids are getting home for sick from school.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, like, cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can do what that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually like made us stronger, but it's just the open and honest portion of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You talked about kind of like having bad days.
[SPEAKER_04]: First of all, what is a bad day?
[SPEAKER_04]: And second of all, what's your immediate action drill?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what's your contingency plan with something like that happens?
[SPEAKER_01]: So like normally like a bad day to me would be like I just get overstimulated, especially with like three kids at home, like just shit everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is things are just thrown all over the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something's broken.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just get overstimulated and out of nowhere, I'll just get these like bouts of depression.
[SPEAKER_01]: to where I'm just sad for no reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it happened to me like several weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, well, what's wrong?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just fucking sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just, I don't feel good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just comes out and I know where it comes and waves.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, and it's more like the hook is pokus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I found meditating when I heard about like meditation and like listening to like certain sounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: At first I was like, ah, this is kind of like lame.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was guided through it by someone who actually does meditation.
[SPEAKER_01]: and does like the therapy for meditation and on Amazon music, they actually have like a Native American flutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's like what I throw on, if you search Native American flutes, I turn that on, I do meditation, I start doing grounding, like okay I'm laying in, usually I go in my room,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm late in my bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can fill my blanket.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can fill my pillow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know walls are around me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I'm safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why am I having these thoughts and are they true?
[SPEAKER_01]: The biggest thing is like are they true?
[SPEAKER_01]: So when things would happen like with the kids, like man, I'm fucking worthless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like am I truly worthless?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all about framing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, I'm not truly worthless because I have a lot to offer a lot to give.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just start breaking down those statements in your head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm worthless.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a piece of shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't deserve to live.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just kind of like take those head on and be like, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, I'm not worthless because I do have a lot to give.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do deserve to be here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've worked hard to be here and then you just kind of like live in the moment and I try and clear my brain from everything and just think about nothing and that for me personally everyone's going to be different.
[SPEAKER_01]: the grounding and the listening to like the Native American flutes or like the yoga music has helped a ton.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just trying to prove that everything that I think is wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because as soon as you start poking holes in the dam, like eventually it'll open back up.
[SPEAKER_04]: And just FYI, man, like I have four kids, but in my military career, I had three and then I had four, the fourth one towards the end.
[SPEAKER_04]: But like,
[SPEAKER_04]: Bro, you just got to deal with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, oh yeah, there's just an apple sauce all over the you know computer keyboard awesome There's you know a shitty diaper that's on the pillow good to go like like it's just the way it's just wild and I would get so worked up for the longest time like trying to have a clean house.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not gonna happen like you're just
[SPEAKER_01]: You're raking sand.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just shit every it's a it's chaos and I'm trying to embrace it because everyone says like dude you're gonna miss it once it's gone like the little feet running down the hallway like the Like you will miss those days and you're gonna miss having the house like just a disaster So I try and like embrace it like when I feel myself getting like worked up or like super sad I just sit there and like sit around everyone and be like look like this is chaos, but But we're in it right now like
[SPEAKER_04]: The other thing is when you say, you get sad, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or I guess you're using the word depressed.
[SPEAKER_04]: For me, it took me a little while to recognize and start telling people.
[SPEAKER_04]: that that's fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, oh, you know, you lost some of your friends in combat and you get sad about it sometimes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, of course you do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's totally normal and totally fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it might be something that you see or something that reminds you or something that, you know, good or bad, something good happens and you start thinking, well, why do I do it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do I get this?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, and that's
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like that's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just normal.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's part of being a human being, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that is a, I think that's one thing where people can get a little bit sidetracked is they think, wow, you know, I was in combat ten years ago or fifteen years ago or twenty years ago.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why am I sad right now that this happened to this guy?
[SPEAKER_04]: There must be something wrong with me.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, there's nothing wrong with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's not actually you're just sad because you lost your friend and it sucks and you're thinking about them and That's the way life is and so it's a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you're remembering them like hey man at least they're being thought about
[SPEAKER_01]: And you could carry on their memory too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it doesn't have to like sometimes you just wake up your sad like you were saying it and it's fine you're a human being and sometimes there isn't always necessarily a reason like you just subconsciously like like I've said like sometimes I just get down and that's fine but like
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely I'm more self-aware than I used to be because that depression would turn into self-loathing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'd be like, oh, I'm sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm such a pile of shit that I can't even be happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it would just spiral.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you, man, I was like, it was bad because I would just believe everything in my head that I told myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that little question you're asking yourself, is it true?
[SPEAKER_04]: That seems like a little, like a little, a little, seems like it's not that big of a deal, but actually if you start pulling the thread on that, is it true?
[SPEAKER_04]: Start unwinding.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the ball of yarn.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, actually, that's not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a piece of shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Tommy, that is what you're saying, true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, no, it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: So every time you have a thought,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is it true?
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I really worthless?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just have to make sure that anything that is in your head, like, it's not reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you still go see a therapist on the regular basis?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how often?
[SPEAKER_01]: right now it's like once every three months because everything's like kind of under control like that whole event happened in August of nineteen so like now I've gotten I'm very open about everything like I said I'm an open book like if anyone needs to like reach out like
[SPEAKER_01]: Hit me up on Instagram or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll put my Instagram ID or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an open book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this stuff is very important.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to crush the taboo of mental health as weakness because it definitely isn't because I'm not kidding.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I came out and I went back to work and that was another thing was going back to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, how am I going to be around these firemen?
[SPEAKER_01]: after they know that I've just had like a mental breakdown, and I had to go to Happy Camp for thirty days.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how am I even going to show my face, but I'm not kidding, like say what you want about like going over and getting therapy, I've had more people come up to me and like, hey man, when did you know it was time?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm having these thoughts too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's important is that we start the conversation around it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey man, I'm sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get sad too.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get like common humanity between two people, especially two people that have like the same life experience as like you and I were both in Ramadi.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, hey, it's okay that we both get fucking sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's normal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what we went through was hell.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you feel like you have someone else that has also been through that with you, it builds a community.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for veterans fire, police, EMS, like it's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's okay to have some bad days, some down days to have like
[SPEAKER_01]: terrible thoughts because what we do is you see the worst of the worst and I just hope we break that stigma of like going and getting help like eventually and I truly believe that we're getting there seeing like the younger generation of like firefighters and paramedics it seems like they're more open to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully we will get there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will say like my department was incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when I went through my stuff and it's only gotten better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It were more self-aware.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're more open to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's more programs out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're very instead of reactive proactive, which is good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that it seems to be the case with departments all around the nation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we hope it keeps going that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: So firefighting, you say you work seventy two hours on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then four days off, something along those lines.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends on if you have vacation or will have like a drop week, so it'll only be forty eight days on.
[SPEAKER_04]: So seventy two hours on straight.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you only get four days off.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's a lot of work in one month.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you do that?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the schedule all the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no time where it's more than four days.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it rotates.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, there's like when the fires pop off, like there's a thing called the staffing pattern, which you'll get stuck on duty for resources.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that'll get you home is
[SPEAKER_01]: Is if you have what's called the like annual vacation like we call it AV So you'll get sent home if you have vacation, but I think that it's just a hold-out But there it's like when all the fires were popping off and do you get overtime?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so you work forty hours straight and then then whatever the other thirty two hours you're getting overtime pay the or no
[SPEAKER_01]: Our pay is all combined together.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's all calculated together and it's all like through our bargaining unit and like through the union.
[SPEAKER_01]: So our we have planned overtime.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anything past that is time and a half.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the money's good, but like we're we're starting to see like the generation that that wants to go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't like have families and get time off.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said our department, it's, it's, hopefully going in the right direction with like dropping another day and going to, forty eight on and then ninety six off or whatever the, the pattern will be whatever it, whatever it turns out to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's a move in the right direction because they've noticed that
[SPEAKER_01]: That it's hard on the firefighters and I know everyone's like, oh, yeah, poor firefighters will like it's Yeah, it's all three days all the time over and over again.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's it seems like a lot to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it can be but it's a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, how do you like compartmentalize what you're doing at work?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're seeing people that are, you know, Odin, getting hit by cars, or suffering all these medical problems, plus fires, and the whole nine yards.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have some kind of a protocol for like separating what you're doing at work and not dragging that home with you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, usually on my first day home, I'll go sleep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually if I'm tired, it gets worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: It can perpetuate things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my wife has noticed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, go take an app.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, your tired, you need to go sleep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, I'm just more open about how I'm feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'll say, like, hey, like, I feel like really angry right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just feel like camped up.
[SPEAKER_01]: She'll tell me, like, go for a run, go out, go do something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just, I'm more open with, like, how I'm feeling when I was before, I felt like it was a problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, do you get a chance to PT when you're doing seventy two hours on?
[SPEAKER_01]: So one hour every day is dedicated to PT.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're like, go to the gym, we have a gym at the stations.
[SPEAKER_01]: We, uh, some guys will go, like, play basketball.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just have fun with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: What if you could call, obviously, though?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then you gotta go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, like, mission dependent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if there's a big fire that breaks out,
[SPEAKER_04]: And then how much sleep do you get usually?
[SPEAKER_04]: Generally speaking, on a seventy-two-hour, whatever cycle, how much sleep do you think you get?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's some shifts where it's super quiet at night.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not getting that many calls and then there's just some shifts where it's like, pound town.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, I work in the city and Marina Valley, like that place is always busy and I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just luck of the draw.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you could go work at a busy house and run like, our mirror, my wife came out and she wrote out with us on the engine and we didn't run a call till four o'clock.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was like, I thought this place was busy and I'm like, it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like typically, but of course she's there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't run any calls.
[SPEAKER_01]: But typically, you just, you get really good at naps.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like being in the military.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could sleep anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like at work tour, I slept next to a fence.
[SPEAKER_01]: I slept on a tree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you get really good at taking naps.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what advice do you have for kids that want to go and be firefighters?
[SPEAKER_04]: What's good?
[SPEAKER_04]: What's a good stepping stones?
[SPEAKER_04]: How should they make that happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now is a great time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because just like everywhere, like in the workforce, they're just having a hard time, like finding people.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could look at your local fire departments.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Explorer program is great if you're between the ages of fourteen and they say twenty one.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're above the age of eighteen trying getting the like a reserve program, but looking at your local community college, seeing if they offer any fire science classes, go to your local fire department, be like, hey man, I'm interested in being a firefighter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, hit me up on Instagram, I'll send you the websites, whatever information you guys need, but now it's a great time to try and get a job as a fireman because we've hit this like precipice of like the seasoned firefighter is kind of like
[SPEAKER_01]: a dying breed like there there used to be this culture of like guys would work as a fireman like just a straight fireman for years and years and years and it was always respected and now it's the population has grown so much and the departments are getting so big that guys are promoting a little faster so we're having this like
[SPEAKER_01]: In the interim, we're just having a lot of movement and a lot of structure.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good because we're growing, but right now it's kind of like a dying breath.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when I saw my department, I worked on an engine for several years and then I got to, you know, like the big ladder truck with like the driver in the front and like the driver in the back, I finally made it to like the driver in the back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my fireman, Sean Talcher, he's like, if you took a computer and you built a fireman like that was my partner and then I'm this goofball paramedic that like comes along and be like, hey, I'm on the fire truck now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like being an Iraq man, like trying to learn the scouts jobs and like trying to follow along.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never realized how bad I wasn't my job until you're with someone that is like a master of the craft.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was with guys like Dallas Smith, Matt Wright.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a big jujitsu guy too.
[SPEAKER_01]: My captain that I worked with, he's a blue belt.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love's your show, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to love the shout out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you were what firefighter to the year?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you manage to get firefighter to the year?
[SPEAKER_01]: They ran out of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: They ran out of people to vote for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely wasn't based on looks.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to be organized.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like to come up with like trainings and
[SPEAKER_01]: And things that I kind of put myself out there, I'm on like a training cadre with like the new hire firefighters.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think your peers just slowly noticed that kind of thing and they took a vote and luckily I want it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you're also teaching at a community college.
[SPEAKER_01]: I teach in what firefighter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Paramedics.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I helped teach.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an adjunct faculty and then I helped teach new paramedics and EMTs wherever I can feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't do that as often as I would like.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I go in there whenever I can.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it because it like rejuvenates me to back when I went to paramedic school and how much I loved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was probably one of the best years of my life being there and seeing those kids and like how excited they are and like all the questions that they have.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, well, what happens when you do this and you're like, it's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's fun and just seeing like the new generation like coming up
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say like the younger generation, they're so technologically advanced and so smart and quick with recall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you get hit these students down and be like, tell me everything you know about magnesium, tell me everything you know about calcium chloride, they're like smoking them, like out of the water.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you sit them down,
[SPEAKER_01]: in front of a Vietnam veteran and they have to do this, like talk, like total collapse.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have the interpersonal skills because to no fault of their own, they grew up with cell phones and texting.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have the element of human connection that like our generation has.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can, you can see that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, one hundred percent, they're, they blow us out of the water with smarts, but
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the hard part is applying like what they know in the book and being so analytical into real life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're knowing when like someone's gaming you like if someone's trying to like pull one over on you just like the street smart so it like you know what I mean if someone's being a smart ass and like not answering your questions like that's where I see students like struggle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll take paramedics students and it's like dude like you have the knowledge
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just applying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love teaching because it reminds me of when I was like that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like learning like, oh man, I can't wait to get out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: That excitement and that drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like if we could just harness like the younger generation of like paramedics and firefighters because they're excited, they just need direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just helping them in guiding that enthusiasm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially with the fire department, we've, I hope we implement like a search culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I mean by that is victim rescue first, like a victim rescue first mentality.
[SPEAKER_01]: So over the years, especially with the economy and how people are having trouble finding employees, the fire department is no stranger to that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're having trouble finding people too.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dying breed is still the dying breed of strong career firemen.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're getting these newer guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the fire department, we've taken a defensive posture.
[SPEAKER_01]: like to where we're quick to pull the trigger on like all right let's just go defensive like let's not like really risk a lot but so by implementing a search culture just aggressive search tactics when we pull up first on scene to a structure fire like that should be our first thought and that's what I'm trying to like push to this younger generation and I love it because it's out there
[SPEAKER_01]: They just need the guidance and like the backing from like they need like the support from it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So when you show up to a fire and your first instinct in your should be like we need to make sure there's no one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's just make sure like don't be so quick to pull the trigger like, ah, let's just go defensive like hey, let's get in there and do an aggressive freaking search like let's do victim search right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: And some of that judgment's based on what the structure is, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nighttime.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in an industrial area.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, yeah, there's probably no one in there.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you like, no, we got a search in an area.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all knowledge skills ability.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you've been there done that before, you know the layout of the land.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, this is in my first due.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know this building's super well.
[SPEAKER_01]: The homeless population usually hangs out like back here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go search.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's get this search mentality back.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the younger generation loves it, we just need to guide them in that direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I hope for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I get excited about it, man, because I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the best job in the world who is being on a truck company and like getting off and doing a search, like an nice, like not nice, but like a good aggressive search and just having an aggressive fire culture, even with Parametasin, like let's be aggressive with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like let's make a difference with these patients.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it is the worst day of their life.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they called nine one one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's give them the treatment that they deserve.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's give them the medicine, like, let's be aggressive as a culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just hoping to instill that because I hope to leave the fire service better than I found it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've luckily found out that I love teaching as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I have all the answers?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely not, but I'm pretty good at finding them out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, no, by no means am I like a martyr or am I speaking on behalf of like all fire departments or anyone at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just my personal opinion and what I see and what I hope for.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I hope no one's like, hey man, let's just guy talking about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just what I see.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's my hopes and purely just my personal opinion.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to be aggressive.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's I got friends in the fire department and I've worked with fire departments all over the country really and and my company actually on front goes to work with fire departments and love seeing that attitude of like we're gonna fight the fires and make things happen and that's that's badass and it's bright doors down get a good interior attack going get horizontal ventilation go out like let's rock this thing like put this thing out like
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not just let it burn to the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get in there guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk on the radio coordinate this thing and put it to bed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and they did the firefighters the San Diego firefighters saved my gym, you know, the building.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he got damaged a lot of damage, but they were they fought that fire.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they went inside.
[SPEAKER_04]: They had guys in the roof.
[SPEAKER_04]: They had to do what you call it vertical.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like horizontal ventilation.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when they're on the roof.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like you could do they cut big holes in the roof to get the heat out of the fire fighters.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like they did, they did a full debrief with me walking through the whole thing how they fought it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're turning me on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's pretty freaking legit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just a roof ops.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, dude.
[SPEAKER_04]: They would have thought they, it's all repaired now, but I mean, there was, they were up there with the chainsaw, saw and big holes through it all.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they were in communications because the guys that were in the fire, they couldn't get close enough because it was too hot.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they'd call those guys like more holes, get more of them out of there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they were able to save the bill.
[SPEAKER_04]: Heck yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a coordinated attack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so that's what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Get holes in the roof, get lines in, coordinated attack.
[SPEAKER_04]: You could see when they took me in for the debrief.
[SPEAKER_04]: You could see where they had where they were running their fingers along the wall.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like there was a big mirror in the locker room.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you could see there's all other things you see where they were following the wall.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because they couldn't see shit and there because it was too smoke.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, heck no.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what scares like going into them like your visibility is like super low.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's great for the apartment and I didn't do it, but they have like the, uh, some kind of, I don't know what they'd call it, but it's like a maze.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, confidence box.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, where you get big and get through there and there's no crap on purpose, like we do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll like tie stuff around like their breather, like their bottle, like to get them trapped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's all about
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about like what we've been talking about like, I'm okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just need to like back up, pull it off my bottle and like get through this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you ever seen one of those things carry?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: It looks like, uh, you know, like a little rat maze, but it goes up and down and like little tiny holes you got to get through and they fill it with smoke.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can see it's not, it's not a, not one for a claustrophobic dude.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a big dude, but I love stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like they'll have like a slide on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll put objects like we have barrels that will push over.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just meant to show you like that you are safe in your gear to get that confidence that when you are putting out your gym, like you are safe, like trust your equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been asked, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I have a lot of hope for like the future of like the fire department fire EMS, like
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: It right now is a great time to get started in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if anyone's aspiring, please like reach out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you whatever I have.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right on.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Does that get us up to speed?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's where we're at.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's your, what's your, Instagram you were talking about?
[SPEAKER_01]: My Instagram is, uh, A-R-E-O-H-B-E-A-P-Fore.
[SPEAKER_01]: What the hell was that mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh wait, it's
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's my name phonetically.
[SPEAKER_01]: AR is R, OH is O, BE is B. So it's like, nineteen eighty four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nineteen eighty four.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean, what is that?
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a guy on here named Echo Charles.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true, but that's his actual name.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I know, but what kind of name is that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's nineteen eighty four.
[SPEAKER_01]: So AR, E, OH, B, nineteen eighty four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or just search Rob Black on Facebook.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll never claim to know everything, but I can help whoever.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we got the before we wrap up.
[SPEAKER_04]: We got the one one AD Ramadi reunion taking place in January of twenty twenty six.
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody that was there and spouses and gold star families are all invited to come.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's been you know guys from
[SPEAKER_04]: every basically every unit we're been in contact we're having meetings getting it all set up General McFarlane's you know he's that's a big deal he's still he's still in charge yeah yeah and and just awesome and it's been very cool to reconnect with a bunch of those in matter if that's how I got in touch with Dan Pinion like there's I got a few more guys from Ramadi lined up to come on the podcast but
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if anybody's listening to this, that was in Ramadi, please look up.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a ready first reunion and look it up.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a Facebook, there's a website, trying to keep it right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's an Instagram.
[SPEAKER_04]: It'd be awesome to see you all down there to see everyone again.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been wild, you know, because
[SPEAKER_04]: There's like, go on, we have these, uh, one of the Zoom calls, right, with all the dudes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, some of them were like, enlisted guys, but some of them are the commanders, you know, and everybody in between.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's wild to sit down and you haven't seen these guys in almost twenty years, because it's a twenty year reunion.
[SPEAKER_04]: You haven't seen these guys in twenty years, but you know, it's just like I have the instant feeling that we're in a brigade meeting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like nothing's changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, there you are.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, or Roger that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, isn't funny how you take and lead on that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like boom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it funny how the leadership is still the leadership?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like even twenty years later, like the role players are still doing the role playing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what we were saying, like going into a body, like I didn't even know what a cop was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: We're building combat outposts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what the heck does that mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Dude, I cannot believe that was your, your, welcome to the army.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're gonna, you're gonna, oh, train up to be in an aid station.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, actually, no, you're gonna be in an brigade recon troop.
[SPEAKER_04]: What does that mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I mean, you're gonna be going out and going in Overwatch, but it's just, it's just, nuts, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, and seeing what you've done and seeing you, look, what the struggles you've gone through, I think a lot of guys have been through that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, it'll be, it'll be awesome to sit down and meet and greet with a bunch of people that we haven't seen at twenty years, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know you said you haven't logged in for your vacation time yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: We did knocked over.
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's go.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Somebody give this guy some time off up there.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I'll get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be freaking legit.
[SPEAKER_04]: So people can find you.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's your your Instagram.
[SPEAKER_04]: A. R. E. O. H. B. E. nineteen eighty four.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kerry, are you got any questions?
[SPEAKER_02]: I did have one question, so say us and white album Anthony Green.
[SPEAKER_02]: What are your opinions on that album?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just saw Anthony Green at when we were young.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in a new band.
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget what it's called.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They opened up for taking back Sunday and the used.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to that concert on the Friday night.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Circus survived, maybe?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that was his side project right right circuit man.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're taking it back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I love like the song seven years Barry your head They perched on stills.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We actually caught a me and a buddy mine cut a circus of life show no way in LA a few years back and it was awesome man Anthony Green's daughter for sure good energy like he put on a good like he's just an energetic dude like in his stage presence is really good
[SPEAKER_01]: hundred percent what's the playlist looking like now like what do you got going on for me yeah it's the same garbage I've been listening to you said like I'm so stuck in the like if I try and get into new bands I'm like I'm just gonna go back to what I love like the roofio it's still yellow card blink when I like all that right on typical bands that I still love
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got caught up in, you know, post hardcore, two thousand three to like two thousand nine.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what's hard on the phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just, yeah, you mentioned a data remember to freaking all time low.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my wife's so I have a Levine last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did definitely a little bit of the used to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh,
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw them live with taking Max Sunday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Holy smokes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one of the best shows I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it sounded like the album.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was, you know when you see bands and sometimes it's like disappointing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like man, that kind of sucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounded like the album.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: right on yeah i i went heart i went harder the harder route but definitely those guys are in the mix uh in on the chill days throwing on some say a senator yeah anything i'm sorry no no no no big dick over here no bad no she is sorry sorry sorry i'm a little hard yeah sorry i like real music guy i'm putting up to twenty five for sets bro my bad
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you guys had a carps since the Bush administration like Jesus Christ, but you guys eat an elk over here God yeah, I just fucking beefy Make me insecure Look out here.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah nothing else no no freaking deep Romadi questions
[SPEAKER_04]: I always wondered, like, for you guys for, like, you sitting here because you've been hanging around for so long and just, you know, sitting here where someone that was seeing, like, my guys from the outside and what did we look like?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm always curious, like, what was that?
[SPEAKER_04]: And you kind of gave us, you know, some of that today, like, goldenized.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always cool to like get another piece of the picture as somebody on the outside looking in where we hear from the task, you know, bruiser guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: We hear from the leadership, General McFarland, you know, and some of the other key leaders.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we hear from some of the Marines and the Army guys that were on the ground.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just all these different perspectives that paint this picture of what it was like in the Battle of Ramadi.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that you brought up today that I thought was super cool, Rob was what it was like to go
[SPEAKER_02]: meet with and plan with the seals.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we know what it's like from the bruiser side.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like as a listener, you've described how you presented that to the bruiser guys where it's like, hey, we're going to be squared away.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be in uniforms.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have haircuts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything's going to be super squared away.
[SPEAKER_02]: But to see it from the army perspective too, where it's like, oh, shit, we got to wash our stuff and make sure we're
[SPEAKER_01]: What you're going into into the seals talk, like, you're being, one, you're being invited in, so you're like, oh shit, like, I hope we don't screw this up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you need to instill that, like, can we trust these turds?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if we show up and we look like a bag of ass, they're gonna be like, these are the guys watching our outer court on.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's funny is that's exactly the same thoughts we had.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, we were like, we needed to show these guys that were squared away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the other thing is is like we look to you guys the whole time We looked at all the conventional units like oh cool We're gonna go do an op.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's gonna take us an hour Maybe we'll do an Overwatch gonna take us twenty four maybe forty eight or maybe seventy two hours will be out there and then we'll go back and we'll we have air conditioned spaces and we got you know my guys had the video game freaking thing set up and we got
[SPEAKER_04]: decent child and it's like oh yeah when we're back you guys are gonna go back out again and then you're gonna go back out again and then you're gonna go back out again and so we knew that you guys were just getting after it every single day and that's why we had so much respect for you guys and that's why we did everything we could to support you guys as much as we possibly could
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I know I got some some more battalion commanders coming on in the near future.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was the same thing like for us, you know, for us being in a sealed tune, like we got thirty forty seals.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: When we're doing a big operation, it's thirty forty seals.
[SPEAKER_04]: When we're going to battalion operators, where there's seven hundred freaking dudes going in,
[SPEAKER_04]: Iraqi Army, US Army, thirty or forty or fifty armor pieces going in, bro.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like you're in a movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I was in heaven.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, this is freaking epic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what you guys, you guys live for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why you guys join the sea.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I talked about this with General McFarlane, but everybody feels the same way.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the inter-service rivalry that you hear about is like, just wasn't out there.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's like, what do you guys need?
[SPEAKER_04]: How can we help?
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to support.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the way it had to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the humility amongst the co-ops, like how everything was working out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like at least, and I was very like Dan's going to give you the perspective from like the leadership and like how
[SPEAKER_01]: He was running his platoon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just the only thing I needed to worry about was like, did I have rounds in my rifle and did I have a couple of life easing some band aids?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it just like filling in those gaps and like giving the different perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I hope I provided that for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we've had a few of the front line dudes here, you know, just front line soldiers that were out there getting after it, getting after it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then get an effort some more.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what you guys were doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was freaking it was we watched in awe as you guys as you guys did your thing So anything else carry no sir freaking epic Rob any any final thoughts brother I I just hope if if anyone is listening Do not give up.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does get better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it sounds very like you've heard it before
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, during like my darkest times, I did rely on a lot of my friends that I've had like lifelong friendships with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were all there for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could never repay them for what they did for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: My wife, my, my kids, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: there is hope do not give up you aren't a worthless piece of shit like it's okay to be depressed it's okay to be have good days have bad days and it happens and it's going to keep happening over and over again like it's a lifelong journey with this like mental health crap
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can all get through it together like as a community, military fire, police, EMS like we if we all band together like there's nothing that we can't do.
[SPEAKER_01]: How that sounds super like lame, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It also sounds super dirty.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it truly is, but it sounds like very gimmicky.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we just talked about being on the battlefield and how it's like, hey, whatever you need, we're there.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll support each other and it's the same exact thing you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: It truly is and and
[SPEAKER_01]: My Instagram's out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you guys like my information if you want to put it up like if anyone has any questions about like the fire department, EMS.
[SPEAKER_01]: Get into it if I can help in any way shape or form like at least guide you in the direction because I never have all the answers but but I will try and find all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of resources to like a lot of friends that that could help me out as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's awesome and well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Great, great final words, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't ever give up, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Never.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for joining us.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for sharing your experiences.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome to see you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for your service and your body.
[SPEAKER_04]: As I said, man, it was an honor to watch you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was an honor to serve alongside you guys and know that we were mutually supporting each other on the battlefield and we can still mutually support each other now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we'll never forget you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll never forget the heroes that you guys lost.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for your service and the fire department as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know it's a hell of a job.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for continuing to lead and serve to this day, brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me on and thank you for this opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I truly appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And with that, Rob Black has left the building.
[SPEAKER_04]: for getting awesome to see him.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's gonna be awesome to see all of you that served in Ramadi with us down in Texas in January.
[SPEAKER_04]: Come to the reunion, the Romadi reunion.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's gonna be epic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Seeing everybody, they got music planned, they got events planned.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there's some kind of golf activity going down.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you can, you know, try and make it happen.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's gonna be, it's gonna be really cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been very cool to see all the bunch of people in these Zoom calls that we're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you can make it down, look, look at the, you know, Rob, great guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know clearly had some struggles had some stuff to get through and And like he said don't give up and like he also said, you know, we support each other on the battlefield.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's keep supporting each other.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, let's keep supporting each other.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you were there with us, if your gold star family, please come down to Texas for the Ready First Ramadi reunion.
[SPEAKER_04]: We look forward to seeing you there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also
[SPEAKER_04]: I know that Carrie, you've been struggling a little bit lately.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not so much with mental health, but more trying to hit your, hit your protein activities, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that what we're doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, struggling in a good way, I would say.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like a bad struggle.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're just trying to hit goals and, you know, sometimes that's challenging.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because Rob was talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: the beef in the room, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Rob, let's talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're trying to, what are you trying to hit protein ones?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, two hundred grams, you know, trying to hit two hundred grams a day and what I, a while back, I, so what are you going with?
[SPEAKER_04]: One gram per pound a body lean body weight or whatever ideal weight or something like that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Roughly, that's what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Roughly, but two hundred grams, I started tracking it again a little while back.
[SPEAKER_02]: I go through these phases, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where I'm, I'm like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Super dialed into my tracking and then life happens, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We get busy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So started tracking again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I noticed that my protein was weighed down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was, you know, getting like, hundred and twenty, hundred and twenty five grams just because I'm only eating two meals, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm skipping breakfast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing like a big launch, big dinner type thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: How many grams do you get in one, twenty-five?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was roughly one, twenty-five because it was two portions of meat a day, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of those portions was in a four-pound steak.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, four-pound piece of rib eye.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was before angry through like a protein shake on top of that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that gets you to like one, thirty, hundred, thirty grams.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, we got to get those numbers up.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a rookie numbers.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how many mocks a day does it take to get your numbers?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm kind of fortunate, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm at the Jockel Fuel Media offices and we kind of got the good.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we get that.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I texted the other day, are you in the office?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: You feel like I needed what I needed Jockel Fuel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was slow.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was low on the ISD lemonade.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's good to see you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was going to be like brawling a swing by their gravel assumption.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's stash.
[SPEAKER_04]: By the way, if you order Jocco, if you're right now, like I just ordered four cases of ISD lemonade go.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here in three days, something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we got you covered.
[SPEAKER_04]: So are you making those kind of super power shakes to like protein shakes with, do you put three scoops in?
[SPEAKER_02]: I've triple scooped and so it's RTD usually in the morning or early afternoon and then in the evenings before the meal all I'll hit another like shake a blender style and double scoop for sure sometimes you get you get crazy get that third one in but that helps with consistency too.
[SPEAKER_02]: You get that like milk shake.
[SPEAKER_02]: What flavor are you going chocolate all day?
[SPEAKER_02]: All day.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been I've been heavy on the chocolate tray.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got some.
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you tried the proseries yet?
[SPEAKER_02]: I've tried the pre-workout and I gave Ashley a jock of fuel like a four paragraph feedback because you're so high that it is the protein is it's it's really really delicious.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we got we had a pro series coming out
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyways, all the stuff that we're talking about, you need some fuel, you need jockel fuel, you need energy, you need hydration, you need protein, you need cold protection immunity protection, we got you cover, go to jockelfield.com and check that out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, you can check out originusa.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, so I sacrificed my Chelsea boots, which echo is upset about, apparently.
[SPEAKER_04]: I never would picture Echo.
[SPEAKER_04]: First of all, it's hard to even picture Echo wearing any types of shoes at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: If he is, he's wearing those, whatever those converse like elastic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Chuck, you know, laces.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really sports or slippers, you know, flip flops as we call them.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I in front of him I gave you the Chelsea boots.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was holding the grit.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's holding the grudge.
[SPEAKER_02]: I watched it on his face like as you passed me the boots like his expression Yeah, he was he was upset but they're working out for you
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, dude.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we had a little we had a little date night scenario the other day and yeah, I had to shoot you a picture afterwards because those are so clutch when and I'm not I'm not a super fashionable guy, you know, but you know, you know, little button up whatever, short sleeve button up some jeans and
[SPEAKER_02]: I throw on those Chelsea boots, man, and it is game over compliments from G money on those.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, big fan, those Chelsea boots are insanely comfortable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they are comfortable.
[SPEAKER_04]: I did try them on before I gave them away.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're just not really my, you know, to say I have some style of some kind of kind of a weird thing to even say, but they're not something I would be wearing, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not going to have them sit in there in my closet.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wear the mock toast kind of, that's what I wear right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then obviously origin jeans all day.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, they have, I got the first one of my wife got a pair of the test pair of female origin jeans.
[SPEAKER_04]: So those are common.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're like, my wife was freaking pumped.
[SPEAKER_04]: She was like, dude, these are great.
[SPEAKER_04]: These fit perfect in blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we got some ladies jeans on the way.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we're gonna run like,
[SPEAKER_04]: three or four thousand pairs, something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, we'll let you all know, but the thing is, stuff's made in America, of course, hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you don't have to have something that's embedded with a communist, communist threads.
[SPEAKER_04]: Communism free.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's communism free, hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, there you go.
[SPEAKER_04]: OriginUSA.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, speaking of fashion, you're wearing a Jocco store.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure, the sugar coated lies.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure, what, what is that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Crispy cream or something?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the gank.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a rip of the crispy cream logo, but this is actually a shirt lockers shirt.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is one of the kind of cool designs that you will see in your shirt lockers subscription.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, this one especially every time I wear it, people are like, where do I get them?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've got to let them know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let him know if you're a locker.
[SPEAKER_04]: Check out jockelstore.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you need anything to wear, we got you covered there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Books, I written a bunch of books, but also once again, Daniel Pinion, Command Sergeant Major retired.
[SPEAKER_04]: He wrote this book called Chop That Shit Up.
[SPEAKER_04]: which is the best title and when you get the story behind that title you'll you'll know what it's all about but check out this book you heard some of some of it today with raw black also covered on the podcast but check out the book man great book from a great guy and then
[SPEAKER_04]: Excellent front, you know, so we talked about some of the things that we experienced in Ramadi today and you know, there was a lot of lessons learned, a lot of lessons learned from a leadership perspective and we took those lessons and we eventually started teaching these lessons learned to well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Originally we taught them to seals and then once I retired we started teaching them to civilian companies and teams and whatever so They caught they caught on because they're effective they're proven combat and they'll work no matter what leadership endeavor you're into
[SPEAKER_04]: They will help you.
[SPEAKER_04]: So echelonfront.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: We got leadership consulting.
[SPEAKER_04]: We got events that we do.
[SPEAKER_04]: We do keynote speeches.
[SPEAKER_04]: We do we we will help you in your leadership journey and it'll improve every aspect of your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then also embedded in echelonfront.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have extreme ownership.com, which is online leadership school.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so many people, so much good feedback on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So leadership is everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: Leadership is everything that you're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're interacting with other human beings, you're leading.
[SPEAKER_04]: So check out echelonfront.com, check out extremownership.com, and we got you covered.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, if you want to help service members, you know, we lost Mark Lee in Ramadi on August second.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mark's mom, she turned that into the most positive thing you could imagine, which is her charity, America's Mighty Warriors.
[SPEAKER_04]: Incredible, organization helps us so many veterans if you want to help or you want to support, you want to get involved, go to America's Mighty Warriors.org.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also check out heroes in horses.org.
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, you can hear the struggles that Rob went through.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's tough.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tough when guys come home.
[SPEAKER_04]: And heroes in horses.org takes guys, takes veterans, takes them up into the mountains.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a forty one day vision quest.
[SPEAKER_04]: You get a horse and then you break the horse or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think they call it breaking.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they have a nicer word for it now because it's different.
[SPEAKER_04]: They do it in a different way.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like you build a relationship with the horse and the horse starts to trust you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you can ride the horse and then you ride the horse in the back country for forty one days of Montana.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's freaking awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Great impact on people.
[SPEAKER_04]: So check out on heroes and horses.org and then Jimmy May has got an organization beyond the brotherhood again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Beyond the Brotherhood.org, it's taking guys that get out of the sealed teams that need to move on to the next chapter of their life.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you can you can check that out as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you want to connect with us, so here's Rob Black, he made a lot of real generous offers, you know, for people that want to reach out to him, whether you need some help, you know, with your mental health,
[SPEAKER_04]: needs to help get into the fire department, becoming a parametric EMT, whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's obviously a super generous guy and he's on Instagram and he's at AREOHBE.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you want to connect with us, you can check out jacquard.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: And on social media, I'm at jacquard when like carries that carry help.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just be careful.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't waste a bunch of time on there and it'll wreck your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: Once again, thanks to Rob Black for joining us, grateful for your service as a firefighter and as a soldier.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a hell of a fight there in our body.
[SPEAKER_04]: The fact that you were twenty one years old and you and your crew just stood tall and took the fight to the end of me.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was an honor to serve with all of you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks all of our military personnel out there around the globe right now with a reverence salute to the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that ready first brigade combat team for the blood sweat and sacrifice and that God forsake in city.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for what you did over there and I hope to see all of you at the reunion in Texas January, twenty twenty-six, twenty years.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll see you there.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll find the thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, board patrol, secret service, all of you first responders out there every day, just like Rob Black, in some cases with Rob Black.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for keeping us safe here at home.
[SPEAKER_04]: And for everyone else out there, just remember what Rob closed out with.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't give up.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's going to be some high points.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's going to be some low points.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to come.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to go.
[SPEAKER_04]: But don't no matter what.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't give up.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's all I got until next time.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is Carrie and Joco.