WEBVTT 00:03.253 --> 00:08.623 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to grow the reach, revenue, and impact of your learning business, you're in the right place. 00:09.164 --> 00:10.186 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Celisa Steele. 00:10.206 --> 00:14.334 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Jeff Cobb, and this is the leading learning podcast. 00:17.033 --> 00:24.636 [SPEAKER_01]: If you know your learning offerings need to evolve, but you're not sure where to start or how to bring others along, this episode can help. 00:25.196 --> 00:32.659 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether you're struggling with risk tolerance, engagement, or relevance, you're not alone, and you don't have to figure it out alone either. 00:33.439 --> 00:37.943 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode, number four hundred and fifty-nine, features a conversation with Mary Byers. 00:38.464 --> 00:44.309 [SPEAKER_00]: Mary is an association consultant and author of the book's Race for Relevance and Road to Relevance. 00:44.870 --> 00:50.055 [SPEAKER_00]: She's been on the show before and she always brings grounded practical insights for learning leaders. 00:50.648 --> 00:56.853 [SPEAKER_01]: This time around, Mary and I talk about how learning businesses can evolve through intentional consistent innovation. 00:57.373 --> 01:06.260 [SPEAKER_01]: We explore what it really means to adapt and improve in uncertain times, without chasing every trend and without upending your core mission. 01:06.940 --> 01:15.627 [SPEAKER_00]: Mary shares thoughts on evaluating programs, increasing risk tolerance, and making change part of your culture, not just a one-time event. 01:16.307 --> 01:25.354 [SPEAKER_01]: and we get into trends from micro learning to AI, to peer learning, and how learning businesses can respond in ways that keep them relevant and valuable. 01:26.114 --> 01:28.236 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot here to learn from and act on. 01:28.276 --> 01:31.058 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's the conversation with Mary Byers. 01:37.283 --> 01:45.952 [SPEAKER_01]: You've been on the leading learning podcast before, and I thought it could be interesting to start with a phrase that you used the last time that you were on the podcast. 01:46.033 --> 01:49.056 [SPEAKER_01]: You talked about go forward strategy. 01:49.676 --> 01:55.082 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I would be curious to know what go forward means to you now, and I'm thinking especially of 01:55.903 --> 02:03.747 [SPEAKER_01]: So much uncertainty that we're dealing with, it feels like there's political uncertainty, economic uncertainty, there's a people in the technology space. 02:04.607 --> 02:13.071 [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think about now when you're thinking about a forward focus strategy for associations and other learning businesses? 02:14.572 --> 02:18.914 [SPEAKER_02]: Go forward to mean means looking out the windshield and not the rear view mirror. 02:19.755 --> 02:20.315 [SPEAKER_02]: It means 02:21.233 --> 02:24.395 [SPEAKER_02]: looking at trends and anticipating what's going to happen. 02:25.296 --> 02:29.499 [SPEAKER_02]: There is a lot of uncertainty now, but the reality is there's always uncertainty. 02:29.799 --> 02:31.760 [SPEAKER_02]: We might feel like we have certainty. 02:32.240 --> 02:38.885 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's just because things are a little less volatile, but the reality is we're always working in an uncertain environment. 02:39.045 --> 02:50.873 [SPEAKER_02]: I think when we think about that, it's really helpful to go back to our North Star and for associations, that means going back to your mission and your vision and letting that guide you. 02:51.632 --> 02:55.073 [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe that lens clarity to decisions that need to be made. 02:55.953 --> 03:03.316 [SPEAKER_02]: And in some cases, may also lend clarity to things that are no longer serving the association or your members in the same way. 03:04.056 --> 03:15.520 [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that I think was a silver lining in the pandemic for associations is we took a leadership role in helping our members figure out what they couldn't do, what they shouldn't do. 03:16.160 --> 03:21.262 [SPEAKER_02]: And that helped us really have a definitive value proposition. 03:22.729 --> 03:32.837 [SPEAKER_02]: Our North Star also will help us with a definitive value proposition and the associations that are really surviving have a strong value proposition. 03:32.877 --> 03:34.978 [SPEAKER_02]: The ones that are just surviving really don't. 03:35.138 --> 03:39.402 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's something that we need to take time to articulate and think deeply about. 03:40.350 --> 03:43.012 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I'm hearing in your response there that go forward. 03:43.052 --> 03:45.475 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about looking out the windshield, not the rear view mirror. 03:45.935 --> 03:49.778 [SPEAKER_01]: And to a certain extent, it doesn't really matter how uncertain the times feel. 03:49.798 --> 03:52.721 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we should always be doing is looking ahead. 03:53.321 --> 03:56.965 [SPEAKER_01]: But referring to our North Star, our mission, our purpose, the reason we exist. 03:58.106 --> 04:02.029 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that helps simplify the environment that we're currently working in. 04:02.049 --> 04:05.993 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not suggesting that we don't have uncertainty or volatility. 04:07.077 --> 04:16.848 [SPEAKER_02]: and that we shouldn't be asking what that means for the association that our members, but to a certain extent, the best strategy is to focus on what you can control. 04:17.795 --> 04:23.417 [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of what you can't control are the things that create uncertainty in the first place. 04:23.497 --> 04:29.319 [SPEAKER_02]: So from a strategic standpoint, I think simplifying and asking yourself, this is something we can control. 04:29.899 --> 04:42.924 [SPEAKER_02]: And our mission in vision is it's our reason for being and really doubling down and focusing on those areas and making an impact in those areas that are your reason for being to begin with. 04:43.698 --> 04:49.124 [SPEAKER_01]: You've talked about the need for evolution and continually evolving. 04:49.324 --> 05:04.940 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm curious to get your thoughts around what it actually looks like to be an innovative organization versus maybe an organization that's just sort of saying, yeah, innovation is important without necessarily doing a whole lot to support real innovation. 05:05.464 --> 05:15.812 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it can be really overwhelming to call yourself an innovative organization because that conjures creating something from nothing or having the next big hit. 05:16.533 --> 05:24.739 [SPEAKER_02]: So when I talk about innovation, I like to use this very simple definition and that is doing something differently. 05:25.240 --> 05:34.367 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I think about being an innovative organization, I think about making a small percentage commitment to doing things differently going forward. 05:35.325 --> 05:51.885 [SPEAKER_02]: The way that this applies to learning companies is a lot of times we use the exact same format for our learning and education that we've always used if we're having an in person meeting, we might change the date and the location but keep the format. 05:52.485 --> 06:11.616 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's an invitation for us to change our format to make things a little different, interesting and a new way, unexpected, surprising our audiences, even though we know they also like the similarity and the comfort level that comes along with attending events. 06:12.416 --> 06:15.518 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think the best way to do it is simply to say we're going to 06:16.255 --> 06:39.755 [SPEAKER_02]: change ten percent of what we do every time we do it ten percent of your blog post ten percent of your webinars ten percent of your in-person meetings small changes over time actually lead to evolution and then it doesn't become a thing that you have to do it becomes a practice of who you are and I'm guessing that that ten percent is is 06:40.605 --> 07:01.690 [SPEAKER_01]: more of a guideline than a strong recommendation but the point being like you don't have to change everything but some sort of significant portion which might be in that ten percent range and that if you're doing that then like you say I guess you become accustomed to that as an organization that this is something we do we don't just always do everything a hundred percent the same way 07:02.374 --> 07:12.302 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it helps your board too to recognize that this whole idea of continuous learning really is part and parcel of what makes an association relevant. 07:12.322 --> 07:15.925 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you wait and have big innovations on 07:16.606 --> 07:22.131 [SPEAKER_02]: occasions are infrequently, then I think it's a higher hurdle to get your board to go along with. 07:22.651 --> 07:34.801 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you are constantly asking for money for your own CE on staff or money for some innovations, and that just becomes part of what you do. 07:34.901 --> 07:42.307 [SPEAKER_02]: Many organizations actually have an innovation budget, or they have a percentage of their reserves set aside for innovation. 07:42.908 --> 07:55.495 [SPEAKER_02]: If that becomes part of your habit and you do it reflexively, then it's just built in to the culture of the organization rather than having to be a heavy lift, which I think a lot of times innovation is. 07:55.595 --> 07:59.357 [SPEAKER_02]: We decide we're going to be innovative and so now we've got to put together a team. 07:59.417 --> 08:04.660 [SPEAKER_02]: Now we've got to figure out what we mean and I think we get harder than it has to be sometimes honestly. 08:06.628 --> 08:15.395 [SPEAKER_01]: Talk a little bit about how you see things like pilots, experimentation, feeding into this continuous evolution that association should be aiming for. 08:16.396 --> 08:26.945 [SPEAKER_02]: What I love about the education space is that it's really easy to try things and play small bets to do things a little bit differently and then get people's feedback. 08:27.045 --> 08:34.211 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not that you have to redo the entire meeting or totally change educational format. 08:35.212 --> 08:41.057 [SPEAKER_02]: launch a webinar that just tries to do things a little bit differently than you've done before and get some feedback. 08:41.257 --> 08:49.083 [SPEAKER_02]: And then with that feedback, you can recalibrate, keep some of what you like, get rid of some of what didn't work. 08:49.704 --> 08:55.448 [SPEAKER_02]: Understanding though that sometimes we have to try things more than once before we can really get some true feedback. 08:55.909 --> 09:01.233 [SPEAKER_02]: I was just on a call with the client yesterday who was talking about a meeting he had been to and he said, 09:01.793 --> 09:06.315 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I liked about what we did and this is what I didn't like about what we did. 09:06.375 --> 09:17.300 [SPEAKER_02]: And immediately I thought that is the kind of feedback that is really essential to meeting planners, to education planners, to curriculum developers, 09:18.180 --> 09:23.225 [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes we just send a survey, we hope people will fill it out. 09:23.425 --> 09:29.950 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really nice just to talk people as they're coming out of a meeting or following up with them and just saying, hey, do you have ten minutes? 09:30.010 --> 09:31.051 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to get your thoughts. 09:31.251 --> 09:38.758 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the in-person conversation like we're doing now can be its own kind of market research and it's really valuable. 09:40.648 --> 09:50.150 [SPEAKER_01]: I know another thing that you often encourage organizations to think about is sunsetting things that maybe aren't doing what they need to do any longer. 09:50.170 --> 09:59.493 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess maybe with sort of an innovation lens on that, I mean, it's sunsetting a way of being innovative sometimes. 10:00.740 --> 10:09.147 [SPEAKER_02]: I think so, a lot of people don't look at it that way because they look at the loss or the change that goes away with whatever your sun setting. 10:09.747 --> 10:16.893 [SPEAKER_02]: But I believe that sun setting actually opens up time and money and expertise to do the innovation that you need to do. 10:16.913 --> 10:28.962 [SPEAKER_02]: I've worked with some associations whose certifications have been on the downward trend for ten years because perhaps another certification came up or states no longer required the certification 10:30.052 --> 10:36.510 [SPEAKER_02]: And I asked the question, if this was costing you money every year, why are you still doing this? 10:37.207 --> 10:43.330 [SPEAKER_02]: Or if you have three certifications and only two of them are really doing well, why are you doing the third one? 10:43.870 --> 10:48.632 [SPEAKER_02]: What about meetings that used to draw a lot of attendance that are no longer doing so? 10:49.232 --> 10:51.313 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's just a matter of sun setting. 10:51.353 --> 11:00.577 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a matter of asking, is there something that we could be doing differently that would actually help us refresh this meeting or we engage attendees? 11:01.257 --> 11:02.898 [SPEAKER_02]: Is our marketing what it needs to be? 11:03.768 --> 11:05.890 [SPEAKER_02]: Are we providing proper incentive? 11:06.270 --> 11:09.152 [SPEAKER_02]: Is the timing of the meeting good? 11:09.172 --> 11:11.854 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of things that we can be asking. 11:12.839 --> 11:21.605 [SPEAKER_02]: Sun setting might end up being or purposely abandoning programs and education might be what you end up doing, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. 11:21.785 --> 11:37.995 [SPEAKER_02]: So you might start out with the idea that you're making a decision about keeping or not keeping, but as you do your discovery, you might decide that there's actually some things that you could do that could actually help promote the program or service and give it a new life. 11:39.006 --> 11:43.823 [SPEAKER_01]: particularly in the association world sometimes there's that tension that can come out of. 11:44.834 --> 11:55.384 [SPEAKER_01]: mission and feeling like you need to kind of be everything to everyone and then as you were giving as an example like maybe a certification that's no longer as strong as it used to be. 11:55.444 --> 12:09.557 [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe just talk a little bit about how you think about or help associations think about that sort of tension and when to balance kind of the the revenue that might come from an educational offering versus what it might mean to the mission overall. 12:11.197 --> 12:21.619 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a challenge, honestly, when there is a program that is a cash cow, that might not be perfectly mission related. 12:22.639 --> 12:36.121 [SPEAKER_02]: Because that revenue coming in then does ultimately support mission and vision, because it enables you to operate and uncovering your operational expenses, then you can meet your mission. 12:36.641 --> 12:40.682 [SPEAKER_02]: The best case scenario, of course, is when you have a program that 12:41.943 --> 12:49.167 [SPEAKER_02]: provides revenue or sometimes purposely breaks even that can be part of your strategy to that also meets mission. 12:49.187 --> 13:02.195 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it needs to be a overall conversation and a conversation that is association wide, not just in the learning department, but in all of the departments that provide programs and services. 13:02.295 --> 13:04.897 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it makes sense to take a holistic look. 13:05.497 --> 13:09.601 [SPEAKER_02]: although each individual department can have its own conversation as well. 13:10.282 --> 13:13.185 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll also say that there's no one right way to do this. 13:13.685 --> 13:20.192 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the main thing that I advocate for is being really intentional and deliberate and questioning. 13:20.212 --> 13:25.097 [SPEAKER_02]: Year to year, month to month, week to week, perhaps our activities 13:25.657 --> 13:27.398 [SPEAKER_02]: that we're providing to members. 13:27.418 --> 13:36.363 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, sometimes, honestly, we're trying to do so much that members end up tuning out everything we do because it's just too overwhelming for them. 13:36.403 --> 13:38.083 [SPEAKER_02]: We call it communications clutter. 13:38.544 --> 13:45.607 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're a legislative activities, or competing with your education activities, or competing with your charitable activities, 13:48.150 --> 13:50.333 [SPEAKER_02]: It can be overwhelming for members. 13:50.413 --> 13:53.757 [SPEAKER_02]: And if we're not careful, we just get them, they tune us out all together. 13:53.777 --> 13:59.664 [SPEAKER_02]: And I hear that all the time from clients, how can we get members to see the value of what we're doing? 14:00.385 --> 14:03.929 [SPEAKER_02]: Part of the question is, are you trying to communicate too much? 14:03.989 --> 14:05.391 [SPEAKER_02]: And so they're hearing nothing. 14:07.121 --> 14:15.010 [SPEAKER_01]: Sun setting programs, particularly ones that maybe if not doing particularly well, but they're valued by a vocal subset of folks. 14:15.030 --> 14:16.732 [SPEAKER_01]: That can feel risky. 14:17.513 --> 14:20.076 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think risk is just something that 14:21.020 --> 14:26.681 [SPEAKER_01]: can inhibit evolution and innovation, experimentation, a lot of these things that we've been talking about. 14:27.441 --> 14:33.623 [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you think about talking about risk when you're dealing with associations? 14:33.703 --> 14:44.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way to sort of reframe it and make it be a little bit less scary to staff or boards or other stakeholders who might be contemplating something that they think is risky? 14:46.733 --> 14:53.439 [SPEAKER_02]: One of the ways that I've done this with clients is just to have a risk conversation. 14:53.459 --> 15:04.128 [SPEAKER_02]: And if I'm doing it with the board, I'll ask the board on a scale from one to five with one being very conservative and five being willing to take risks. 15:05.629 --> 15:14.617 [SPEAKER_02]: What number would you give yourself in your personal life, in your professional life, and as an association leader? 15:15.442 --> 15:19.604 [SPEAKER_02]: And we ask everybody on the board to give themselves a number in each of those areas. 15:20.205 --> 15:21.345 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we get an average. 15:22.066 --> 15:32.632 [SPEAKER_02]: And what we often find is that people are more willing to take risk in their personal life because they have full control or in their professional life because they're paid to take risk. 15:33.152 --> 15:41.116 [SPEAKER_02]: But when they walk into the boardroom, they may feel risk-averse because they don't want to be embarrassed in front of their colleagues. 15:41.156 --> 15:43.258 [SPEAKER_02]: They want to do a good job for their colleagues. 15:43.338 --> 15:49.021 [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes often, board members will tell me, well, it's the members' money that we're spending. 15:49.081 --> 15:52.042 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I feel risk-averse to doing that. 15:52.463 --> 16:00.467 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a great conversation for staff to have together as well, too, either departmentally or senior staff or association-wide. 16:01.048 --> 16:02.349 [SPEAKER_02]: You need to have a balance. 16:02.429 --> 16:15.475 [SPEAKER_02]: People who are willing to ask questions who are curious, who are willing to run small pilots and balance that with people who are watching the bottom line and making sure you're not getting too far over your skis. 16:16.095 --> 16:30.422 [SPEAKER_02]: But if we don't have those conversations and we don't know how risk-averse we are, then we really don't have a sense of what's possible for the organization and how we need to balance experimenting, how many 16:31.210 --> 16:41.055 [SPEAKER_02]: pilots are we doing simultaneously what kind of expectations do we have over what they will show our departments working together our committees working together. 16:41.777 --> 16:45.500 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so much easier to talk about innovation that it is to actually do it. 16:45.621 --> 16:46.842 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be the first to admit it. 16:47.362 --> 17:01.475 [SPEAKER_02]: But that risk conversation and having it really on a regular basis as your staff turns over and your board turns over, I think actually being able to say is one of my clients did on a scale from one to five, we're a two point seven. 17:02.216 --> 17:04.197 [SPEAKER_02]: And we aspire to add to that. 17:04.257 --> 17:05.879 [SPEAKER_02]: We aspire to be a three plus. 17:06.259 --> 17:09.102 [SPEAKER_02]: So we had a great conversation about what would it take 17:09.796 --> 17:15.920 [SPEAKER_02]: to add a little more risk comfort to you as a board. 17:16.460 --> 17:21.484 [SPEAKER_02]: And some of it was simply as easy as having more than one proposal to look at. 17:22.684 --> 17:24.205 [SPEAKER_02]: One proposal was more risky. 17:24.866 --> 17:25.906 [SPEAKER_02]: One was less risky. 17:25.926 --> 17:30.189 [SPEAKER_02]: They wanted to have an opportunity to look at both rather than having to vote one up or down. 17:30.709 --> 17:34.372 [SPEAKER_02]: Very small shift, but it made a huge difference for the organization. 17:35.315 --> 17:44.104 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you keeping your eye on today in terms of engagement, engagement in learning, engagement within associations in general? 17:44.264 --> 17:54.515 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think in particular, you maybe have some thoughts around the younger generations and professions that are kind of coming into work and into potentially being members of associations. 17:55.812 --> 18:03.616 [SPEAKER_02]: We know that micro learning has been a trend since Ted talks began the short opportunity to learn. 18:03.676 --> 18:12.321 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, anecdotally, I'm hearing that new dentists are actually going to YouTube to find out how to do procedures, which could be good, and it could be bad. 18:13.041 --> 18:20.745 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you think about Justin time, education, and the opportunity for associations, I'm stuck. 18:21.306 --> 18:22.146 [SPEAKER_02]: I need some help. 18:22.766 --> 18:23.706 [SPEAKER_02]: Who do I turn to? 18:23.826 --> 18:28.807 [SPEAKER_02]: If I know I can turn to my association, there's value then in the membership. 18:29.407 --> 18:45.390 [SPEAKER_02]: I was working with a nursing group and they were talking about, it was pediatric nurse, they were talking about when very few nurses are on the floor and it's later night and a nurse has a question about something that's going on where can they turn to get that information? 18:45.410 --> 18:48.651 [SPEAKER_02]: This was years ago before artificial intelligence. 18:49.211 --> 18:49.451 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, 18:50.415 --> 18:59.637 [SPEAKER_02]: Artificial intelligence is I think both an opportunity and a threat for associations and especially as we talk in terms of younger generations. 19:00.317 --> 19:18.521 [SPEAKER_02]: If I can go on to cloud or co-pilot or any other AI platform and get an instantaneous answer without having to log on to my association website or search the association website 19:19.055 --> 19:24.957 [SPEAKER_02]: or go to the Association Online Community, ask the question and wait for answers. 19:25.558 --> 19:27.618 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a real threat to associations. 19:27.718 --> 19:32.760 [SPEAKER_02]: Very similar to social media and how it changed the game for associations. 19:33.261 --> 19:44.145 [SPEAKER_02]: I also think it's a wonderful opportunity because we have the opportunity to teach our members how to use AI to talk about ethics, to talk about how it's going to change in the workforce, 19:44.763 --> 19:48.706 [SPEAKER_02]: But many associations that I'm familiar with now are building their own bots. 19:49.346 --> 19:59.894 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I can go ask my association the question, very specific to my industry, not a general question, but a very specific question. 20:00.514 --> 20:01.595 [SPEAKER_02]: That's an opportunity. 20:01.815 --> 20:06.458 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know of some organizations that are actually building AI study buddies. 20:07.039 --> 20:12.743 [SPEAKER_02]: So if I am studying for an exam or certification or simply have a question, I can go 20:13.505 --> 20:23.270 [SPEAKER_02]: to a vetted source that I know has been updated and it's using the current material that I need to know. 20:23.550 --> 20:26.952 [SPEAKER_02]: The rules, the laws, the regulations, the requirements. 20:27.612 --> 20:31.614 [SPEAKER_02]: I can find it from a reliable resource and that is my association. 20:31.634 --> 20:33.836 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, that has value. 20:34.056 --> 20:36.457 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really looking at micro learning. 20:36.497 --> 20:39.118 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really watching what AI is going to do. 20:40.764 --> 20:44.346 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe that everything that's a threat to an association is also an opportunity. 20:44.366 --> 21:07.101 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that partnership between associations and AI that you were pointing towards does hold a lot of potential because when you marry up that instant sea of the AI, but you have the vetted content that associations can usually bring to bear and having all the subject matter experts having it up to date, then that's a very, very powerful combination. 21:08.122 --> 21:11.125 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we get additional tools too that can then serve up that content. 21:11.205 --> 21:14.047 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't have to just be a text chat with a bot. 21:14.067 --> 21:20.673 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we can have the podcast style, you know, content generated on the fly for that learner. 21:20.693 --> 21:23.716 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's really interesting and exciting. 21:23.816 --> 21:27.039 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking forward to see where things head over the next few years. 21:27.943 --> 21:33.368 [SPEAKER_02]: I am kind of curious what you're seeing in your environment from the AI standpoint. 21:33.408 --> 21:45.220 [SPEAKER_02]: There are the AIDS that help us, but if you are an association or institute of higher learning and you're providing continuing education, where would you say we are in the process? 21:45.260 --> 21:46.741 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're still very early. 21:46.761 --> 21:52.127 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of interest in watching, but do you see a lot of people actually jumping in? 21:53.444 --> 21:55.406 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're right to say that we're fairly early on. 21:55.426 --> 21:58.388 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of back to what we were talking about earlier. 21:58.408 --> 22:04.912 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some experimentation and some pilots going on and people are sort of trying to figure out where things will land. 22:05.893 --> 22:11.597 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, that is further complicated by the fact that these tools are changing so quickly. 22:11.697 --> 22:15.440 [SPEAKER_01]: So what's working now in the current pilot or a current experiment. 22:16.240 --> 22:19.304 [SPEAKER_01]: could be very different what's possible just a few months from now. 22:19.384 --> 22:24.250 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that is an added layer that is interesting to follow. 22:24.310 --> 22:30.799 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think one of the things that a particularly an association learning business has 22:31.920 --> 22:57.719 [SPEAKER_01]: to potentially capitalize on is community right when you really want the human interaction that sort of human mentor that human interaction and yes to a certain extent a chatbot can sort of simulate that or give you that that feel but if you really want that connection you know more it may be a really a cohort of learners going through an experience together supporting each other not only with content but emotionally you know then that's 22:58.259 --> 23:07.768 [SPEAKER_01]: and area where I think associations certainly have a head start over something like a more generic AI tool like a chat GPT or a co pilot or anything like that. 23:08.248 --> 23:17.337 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really glad you brought that up because I think peer to peer learning is an opportunity and I don't know that we do enough a bit in associations actually. 23:17.977 --> 23:21.961 [SPEAKER_02]: I've had the privilege of facilitating a couple of mastermind groups 23:22.522 --> 23:34.648 [SPEAKER_02]: And I love the ability to take a cohort, meet monthly, quarterly, and do deep dives in topics of interest and to challenge each other and to learn from each other. 23:34.669 --> 23:40.111 [SPEAKER_02]: And frankly, I don't understand why more associations aren't starting their own masterminds. 23:40.832 --> 23:43.233 [SPEAKER_02]: We're certainly seeing for profit companies do it. 23:43.633 --> 23:44.594 [SPEAKER_02]: Consultants do it. 23:44.614 --> 23:46.015 [SPEAKER_02]: This judge does it. 23:46.035 --> 23:48.616 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of groups at EOS does it. 23:49.917 --> 23:54.920 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of groups are doing it and yet we have the subject matter experts in our associations. 23:54.980 --> 23:57.701 [SPEAKER_02]: We have the ability to organize. 23:57.741 --> 24:00.302 [SPEAKER_02]: We have the ability to pull together. 24:00.322 --> 24:08.046 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a real opportunity for associations going forward to especially in the impersonal environment of AI. 24:08.546 --> 24:13.369 [SPEAKER_02]: But as you said that whole opportunity to learn together with colleagues to learn 24:14.432 --> 24:17.694 [SPEAKER_02]: with and from, but the peer-to-peer learning aspect of it too. 24:17.754 --> 24:37.648 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not just a sage on the stage, but it is an opportunity to hear some learning, then to personally decide how does this affect me and then to talk with colleagues and debate with colleagues to decide if this is good information, how we can use this information, what's the takeaway from this new learning that we've done together. 24:37.688 --> 24:43.592 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's real opportunities for associations there and that's not the typical learning that we've done before. 24:50.738 --> 25:10.123 [SPEAKER_01]: We're actually in the process of talking with a number of associations, CEOs about the role of learning and by learning, I mean, sort of, you know, broad umbrella of things that go into learning and also the role of education, so a little bit more narrowly, more of the formal experiences, but the role of learning and education in the association's value proposition. 25:10.983 --> 25:15.105 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that you work with, you know, association boards, association leaders. 25:15.365 --> 25:26.770 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I would love to get your perspective, you know, how often does learning and or education come up as an aspect of that overall association value proposition? 25:26.790 --> 25:33.053 [SPEAKER_02]: If you look at association mission and vision, you'll see a breakdown. 25:33.660 --> 25:44.190 [SPEAKER_02]: I was working with the CPA organization recently and their vision actually says they want to be viewed as leaders in professional competency. 25:44.791 --> 25:58.504 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the only way that you can be a leader in professional competency is if you are providing education and learning on an ongoing basis for your members, their mission also says they want to contribute to the success of our members. 25:59.412 --> 26:09.079 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how you contribute to the success of your members if you're not educating them, helping them learn, helping them look at what's ahead, many medical organizations. 26:09.620 --> 26:13.683 [SPEAKER_02]: Part of their mission is to improve patient outcomes. 26:14.464 --> 26:22.790 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how you improve a patient outcome if you are helping your physicians with their continuing medical education. 26:23.405 --> 26:30.950 [SPEAKER_02]: requirements and emerging best practices when it comes to specific illnesses or diseases. 26:31.111 --> 26:51.145 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it is part and parcel of who we are and sometimes the fact if we haven't specifically stated it, I think it's worth recognizing it because if it doesn't say education in your purpose, I think we have to just recognize the value of education and helping us with our mission and purpose. 26:51.589 --> 27:03.599 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely consistent with what we're hearing, you know, that it is usually baked into the mission at some level, the importance of learning or education, which then points to the associations need to help provide that learning and that education. 27:04.359 --> 27:07.301 [SPEAKER_01]: You've been doing this for years at this point. 27:07.341 --> 27:19.271 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm curious to know, have you noticed any change in sort of the relative value or importance placed on learning or education over the time or has it been pretty much consistent in your time working with the associations? 27:20.675 --> 27:23.397 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's been pretty consistent. 27:23.738 --> 27:33.085 [SPEAKER_02]: I think perhaps, and this is a blanket statement, I think perhaps the revenue opportunities for education have shifted. 27:34.046 --> 27:45.636 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know for a fact that the competitive environment has gotten more challenging for organizations because associations used to be the primary way that 27:47.550 --> 28:16.357 [SPEAKER_02]: members were educated but now we have competition from sometimes it's the associations consultant sometimes the organization their the member is part of itself is doing more in the continuing education we have for profit companies that are offering certification and education so that there is just more competition than there ever has before and I think that's challenging associations because part of our question is do we have the capacity 28:17.122 --> 28:19.243 [SPEAKER_02]: to keep up with the rapidly changing environment. 28:19.464 --> 28:25.207 [SPEAKER_02]: And as you just said, what we're looking at with AI now is going to be different in a matter of months. 28:25.287 --> 28:32.072 [SPEAKER_02]: So in some ways it feels to me like the train has left the station and we are running after the train trying to catch it. 28:32.802 --> 28:43.245 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's why I think we need to really be looking through the windshield and not looking at what education was yesterday, but where the possibilities are going forward. 28:43.925 --> 28:45.745 [SPEAKER_02]: So the landscape has changed. 28:45.865 --> 28:47.786 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think the importance has changed. 28:47.946 --> 28:51.587 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're more revenue challenged than we've ever been before. 28:52.327 --> 29:03.472 [SPEAKER_02]: So some discussions about that, if you're revenue, I'm sorry, if you're education provided a profit and now it's providing less of a profit or break even, I think there's a value for a discussion. 29:03.932 --> 29:07.833 [SPEAKER_02]: If it's part of our mission to educate, then maybe break even is okay. 29:08.394 --> 29:10.474 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe smaller revenue is okay. 29:11.135 --> 29:19.478 [SPEAKER_02]: And as we talked about, maybe there are some programs that need to be sunset so that we have the necessary expertise capacity time 29:20.103 --> 29:24.924 [SPEAKER_02]: and financial resources to invent the future of education for our profession or industry. 29:24.944 --> 29:39.307 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking about the learning that associations can provide, you know, yourself exist in a world and you need to continue to learn and evolve some curious to just hear about how you approach your own lifelong learning. 29:39.327 --> 29:43.428 [SPEAKER_01]: Mary, are there sources or habits or practices that you go back to? 29:44.116 --> 30:02.214 [SPEAKER_02]: I actually have an education process map that I use annually and I'm happy to share it with you and you can share it with your listeners and it essentially helps me identify each year what I need to learn and takes me a step further and asks where can I learn that? 30:02.494 --> 30:04.717 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it something I can learn in small bites? 30:05.549 --> 30:11.797 [SPEAKER_02]: in a little bit of free time in my office, would it make more sense for me to go do a deep dive? 30:11.957 --> 30:15.001 [SPEAKER_02]: And if I'm going to do that, who am I doing the deep dive with? 30:15.642 --> 30:18.726 [SPEAKER_02]: And so at the beginning of every year, I actually set some learning goals. 30:19.554 --> 30:28.216 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll confess, I haven't hit a hundred percent of those learning goals, but I hit more than if I wasn't setting any goals to begin with at all. 30:28.316 --> 30:31.456 [SPEAKER_02]: So for me, it's a very intentional and deliberate. 30:32.216 --> 30:33.837 [SPEAKER_02]: Where do I feel like I'm falling behind? 30:33.917 --> 30:35.097 [SPEAKER_02]: What do I need to know? 30:35.617 --> 30:45.819 [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, for me, I'm asking where my clients being challenged and how does my education need to change so that I can help them in those challenges. 30:47.050 --> 30:53.688 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you be willing to give us a glimpse of something that might be on your what you're focused on this year in terms of what you're trying to learn? 30:54.758 --> 30:57.219 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, and I do just for fun. 30:57.359 --> 31:02.242 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll let you know that I set professional goals, but I also set personal goals. 31:02.262 --> 31:05.503 [SPEAKER_02]: So one of my personal goals is that I would like to learn to surf next year. 31:05.523 --> 31:07.384 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's in the future. 31:07.944 --> 31:15.267 [SPEAKER_02]: For me, AI continues to be a important piece of my learning, partly because it is changing so rapidly. 31:15.287 --> 31:20.750 [SPEAKER_02]: I help facilitate a mastermind, and that is how I am reaching that goal by 31:21.330 --> 31:31.356 [SPEAKER_02]: leading that mastermind, not the subject matter expert, but I'm being exposed on a monthly basis to learning in that area, so that's how I'm meeting that challenge. 31:31.877 --> 31:40.142 [SPEAKER_02]: And then another thing that I have identified as being important is looking at how for-profit companies are developing strategy. 31:40.840 --> 31:49.623 [SPEAKER_02]: and making sure that as I help associations with their strategy that what we can learn from for profits is coming into the not for profit arena. 31:50.144 --> 31:58.427 [SPEAKER_02]: But also, I'm challenging myself to make sure that the process that I'm using is as up to date as possible. 31:59.007 --> 32:06.090 [SPEAKER_02]: And as I see an opportunity for improvement and change that I'm borrowing from what I'm learning in this strategy environment. 32:06.110 --> 32:09.251 [SPEAKER_02]: So I've actually taken two different strategy classes this year. 32:10.328 --> 32:14.990 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been interesting for me in affirming that I'm where I need to be there. 32:15.050 --> 32:17.611 [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes that's the purpose of education, too. 32:17.691 --> 32:22.593 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not to learn something new, but it's just to affirm what you already know. 32:22.893 --> 32:24.574 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's value in that, too. 32:25.274 --> 32:29.015 [SPEAKER_01]: So we've covered a fair amount of ground in our time together. 32:29.576 --> 32:38.179 [SPEAKER_01]: If you were to try to pull out one to three things that you are hoping listeners might take away from our conversation, what would you highlight? 32:39.008 --> 32:46.191 [SPEAKER_02]: I would go back to focusing on innovating in small percentages, whether it's ten. 32:46.211 --> 32:52.393 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was a number that I just pulled out of the air because I thought it was doable. 32:53.033 --> 32:55.774 [SPEAKER_02]: For some organizations, it might be five percent. 32:56.374 --> 33:01.516 [SPEAKER_02]: Other organizations who've gotten behind it may be thirty or forty percent. 33:02.208 --> 33:07.330 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you innovate small percentage regularly, that naturally leads to evolution. 33:07.590 --> 33:09.551 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's healthy for organizations. 33:10.392 --> 33:15.154 [SPEAKER_02]: The second thing I would say in repeat is that threats are also opportunities. 33:15.634 --> 33:19.996 [SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned the threat of AI, but there's a teaching opportunity there. 33:20.856 --> 33:27.079 [SPEAKER_02]: And we can use AI for things like study buddies, help certification prep. 33:27.639 --> 33:29.640 [SPEAKER_02]: So anywhere that's a threat, 33:30.460 --> 33:32.841 [SPEAKER_02]: Take a step back and look at where the opportunities are. 33:32.861 --> 33:47.308 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the last thing that I would say is that comfort and complacency are associations biggest risks, both on the leadership side and on the membership side. 33:47.888 --> 33:55.832 [SPEAKER_02]: When members have become comfortable and complacent with our programs and services and offerings, and they're not really taking advantage of them. 33:55.912 --> 33:57.653 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not good for the association. 33:58.428 --> 34:16.435 [SPEAKER_02]: And if our leadership, either on the staff side or the board side, if they've become really comfortable and complacent and they're not innovating and they're not doing pilots or placing small bets, then that is a surefire way to become irrelevant very quickly. 34:17.075 --> 34:23.738 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think it's really important to make sure that we haven't gotten too comfortable or complacent and that our members haven't. 34:30.765 --> 34:31.745 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not done quite yet. 34:31.985 --> 34:33.586 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep listening for our recap. 34:33.966 --> 34:42.828 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll find show notes in a transcript at leadinglearning.com slash episode four five nine along with a link to Mary's website where you can learn more about her work. 34:43.729 --> 34:49.270 [SPEAKER_00]: If you got value from this episode, please share it with a colleague or leave a rating and review. 34:49.710 --> 34:54.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Those things help others find the show and support the work we're doing on the leading learning podcast. 34:55.492 --> 34:57.933 [SPEAKER_01]: Mary shared a lot of helpful advice. 34:58.273 --> 35:04.734 [SPEAKER_01]: One point that stood out for me is that innovation doesn't have to be flashy or a big breakthrough epiphany. 35:05.234 --> 35:09.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Small consistent changes can add up to real evolution. 35:09.675 --> 35:13.536 [SPEAKER_00]: She also made the point that every threat also presents an opportunity. 35:14.076 --> 35:22.898 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why so much strategy work focuses on really understanding the situation so that threats can be seen and opportunities teased out. 35:23.738 --> 35:31.061 [SPEAKER_00]: As you and Mary discussed, AI, for example, may be a challenge, but it's also a chance to better serve learners. 35:31.962 --> 35:37.324 [SPEAKER_01]: Lastly, I'll echo Mary's assertion that comfort and complacency are real risks. 35:37.544 --> 35:46.228 [SPEAKER_01]: Their risks for leaders and for learners, staying relevant requires intentional action and sometimes uncomfortable change. 35:47.148 --> 35:51.810 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for listening and see you next time on the Leading Learning Podcast.