[SPEAKER_00]: Tom, you know what sucks?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Buying a car, and it shouldn't, but it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in this podcast, among other things, we're gonna talk about the top seven reasons why buying a car sucks, both new and used, I fear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we're also gonna talk about some of the cool things we got kicking around the office, like I just had a little bit of an off-road adventure in the Ford Broncos Sport and the full-size Ford Broncos.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we also, I wanna talk about our side-by-side adventure with the Polaris.
[SPEAKER_01]: Expedition where we all was rolled it over.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's twice.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have those rolled it over twice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had more butt-pucker moments in that thing than I have in the last five years in one trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll get to that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also an update on our military truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: M-certified a three that we just bought.
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that something that Andre should be doing over at the truck podcast?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Andre didn't take it to the Fourth of July celebration.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you took it to the Fourth of July celebration.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to start with that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, let's start with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got this old military truck, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And what it is, it's called M-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d
[SPEAKER_00]: Military drawings, commission.
[SPEAKER_01]: Decommission that you can then drive on the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is, what is it actually like to drive on the road?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been kind of driving it around a little bit around the ranch and drove it to our Fourth of July celebration with all our friends in the back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Turns out this truck is awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's so much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you bob the truck, you actually make it about the same size as like a thirty five hundred.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Except much taller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like nine and a half feet tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: but in terms of parking and in terms of like getting around, it's not horrible, especially since ours has an automatic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's actually really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So these trucks, I just did a video over at Tiva Classics where Kase and I went through the entire truck, but they built these from nineteen forty nine through nineteen ninety nine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a fifty-year production run of these trucks and they had all sorts of different engines and transmissions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now ours is kind of right toward the end of the production run.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got a caterpillar
[SPEAKER_01]: diesel engine in line six thirty one sixteen makes about a hundred seventy horsepower got a four-speed automatic and the ours has power steering right Scott's got good air-system brakes really easy to drive and then you just sit so tall you look over everybody and everything it's really cool
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not ours.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is ours, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it looks like before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that's our exact truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's before, huh?
[SPEAKER_01]: So this company called boys, you can kind of see this video.
[SPEAKER_01]: They take this truck, which is pretty rough around the edges, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, spent a lot of time outside in a base.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got bad paints, got bad interior, it's got to sketchy wooden box on the back of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they paint it, they go through the interior, they put new seats in it, new electronics.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you should get the off-road video call, we do a walk around in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: or T. Have a classic suggested one this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it looks like afterwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so I loaded up the back of the truck so much better doesn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Total transformation.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a total transformation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It still looks huge, but footprint wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that horrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it pictures and in person, you see it and you'd say, oh my god, this thing is never going to fit down the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is legal with and more importantly, it's legal weight length.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it fits perfectly in a parking spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, you even have a couple inches to the white lines on either side.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, there is a little bit of a disclaimer here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were able to get it titled, but we had to do it in Utah, because Colorado doesn't like registering decommission military trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: but you taught us and care so thank you you taught and by the way if you're wondering how we manage that we also property you tell we have a bureau in moeb and that's why we were able to let's say the world smallest apartment in moeb it's a tfl bureau twenty five square feet a condo and you talk exactly
[SPEAKER_01]: Zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing about these trucks, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can buy them on Facebook for like eight grand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Four to ten thousand will get you one.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they almost always are basket cases without titles.
[SPEAKER_01]: What Boyst does is they get them direct from the government and they're able to title them with a Utah title.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that we just brought it to the Moab D&V.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we want to register this.
[SPEAKER_01]: They handed us plates and we were out on the out on the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then once you've got license plates, you can drive it wherever you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not illegal to drive it in Colorado.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just very hard to register in Colorado.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, same reason we can't do homebees here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have a couple issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are those?
[SPEAKER_00]: Very loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wear ear protection.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're supposed to wear your protection in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of it's because the box is the cab is kind of just a big tin box, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no carpet or sound that ring in there, which is something we could add.
[SPEAKER_01]: And apparently it's supposed to make a much nicer to drive around the inside because it's less loud.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the exhaust is right by the passenger
[SPEAKER_01]: two inches from the passenger window.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of the noise is pipe right into this little tin box that you're immersed in.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I absolutely love with the way this thing dries.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually not that slow.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the road around me have about a forty five mile an hour speed limit, which is perfect for this truck, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's happy about forty to fifty.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Andre maxed it out on the highway and got it up to fifty five, but it's really screaming at those speeds.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, around forty to forty five is right where it's perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's surprisingly comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: We put some cushions in the bed so my friends could sit down on the cushions and it gets a ton of attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of waves and smiles.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's really upset with it because yes, it's slow, but it's just it's so childlike and kind of how it goes down the road that people aren't pissed about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's like, like you said, Tommy, it's a giant tank of toy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just waiting for some deep snow to really take advantage of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The interesting thing, too, is that if you get them to boys, even fully restored like this, they're not that expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have forty six inch tall tires, which was an option.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have the sixteen thousand pound winch, which was an option.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can paint it whatever color you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got a C, was an option, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And a couple other things of rear lock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we expect the rear lock around it and I think if you were to do that today, the price has gone up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'd be about forty five to fifty thousand which seems like a lot of money for toy and it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But compared to like any kind of new pickup truck, I mean that teeny tiny GMC Canyon you bought was fifty five thousand dollars, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's not that outrageous like a unimog if you wanted to go to couch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jake, how would you buy you in a mug?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's gonna be four or five hundred thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think forty-five to fifty-k for this massive chuck of metal.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it was a hall of good investment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, I can't wait for some deep snow to have a little snow wheel in front.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure those tires are gonna be very good in the deep snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the ground clearance is gonna be exceptional.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is, so I really want to take this thing off road, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It just needs someplace like Moab.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we took it off road in this video where there's no trees.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it rattles not great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the width is a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not someone's saying where you're at options.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the height is another issue because you're nine and a half feet tall, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got to find trees that don't encroach at the top.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing about it is it's like we said, it's not that fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we wanted to take it to like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, let's say I hope Springs, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The trails around there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't really go up by seventy.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go the back way, but then be kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you just, you have to plan probably another hour or two of commute time, right, to get where you're trying to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what therapy does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: They go into fifty miles an hour for hours and hours and hours with your protection on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that this truck is super cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: People are really happy to see it in my mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there's a, this is called a dosen half, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also get a five ton version of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's going to be impossible, which is even bigger.
[SPEAKER_01]: They also bob those.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those don't have an even cooler look because the front ends are just straight up in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: A vertical cliff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But those ones are a couple thousand, but they're not that much more expensive because people can't park those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or like when we brought it back from Salt Lake, we actually towed it back.
[SPEAKER_00]: That one's too tall, so you couldn't even, unless you had one of those low deck trailers that, you know, some mice have, you couldn't get it on American highway with attack restrictions.
[SPEAKER_01]: The funny thing about this truck is, I mean, I think if it breaks, when it breaks, we're going to have to fix it ourselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: because I don't know who we would take it to.
[SPEAKER_01]: The good news is, though, they look like very simple machines.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I've seen them all torn apart, and there's not a lot to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got very heavy duty basic axles, leaf spring suspension, not a lot of electronics in these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think if something we could probably service and fix ourselves, if we had to, the tricky part, though, is you have to stand on top of it to get to the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right like on a typical car.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need like one of those mission impossible where they lower you down.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hardness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lower you down for the ceiling.
[SPEAKER_01]: The telecopter.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you spent a lot of time standing on it instead of standing around.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's stop talking about trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are really encroaching on Andre's territory, and let's start talking about cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: First, some breaking news, which I think is actually good news for EV car buyers.
[SPEAKER_00]: As you know, Congress passed President Trump's big beautiful bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: People probably have a hard time with that, and one of the things that was in the bill was that they did away with
[SPEAKER_00]: Incentives for EVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that good news for?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, let me finish.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they did it sooner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was listening to some podcast and they were like, maybe we could extend it for a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, September, thirty of all the incentives go away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at least federal, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They take away state incentives.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you can't take away state.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the seventy five hundred federal federal and the least loophole is also gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all that is gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the least loophole got you that instead of over time if you leased it, it also did away with the restriction income.
[SPEAKER_00]: So rich people could buy him, but the good news is that the dealer council says that there are about a hundred and forty thousand EVs, new EVs on the ground as we speak.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I promise you that in the next two months you're going to see some screaming bargains
[SPEAKER_00]: while the incentives are still around, for people who want an EV.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're looking for an EV, I can't think of a better time to either buy one or least one than either this month or next month or before the end of September when those incentives go away because I'm thinking that it's just gonna be a free for all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And right now, EV, leases are already crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you got one for no money down, no money, no you got, yeah, no money down, no money per month, just
[SPEAKER_00]: based on the taxes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, things like, I think the onic five, the onic six, which are just wonderful EVs, I think those are going to be out there and available for, you know, Starbucks money.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to EV, this is the time to get one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm looking at some of the least, so for a while there,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the best deals, and I do mean this, the best card deals that will, I'll ever see my lifetime happened at the end of twenty twenty four, which is when I, which is when we saw like our ten dollar Nissan Leaf, we have our zero dollar FIA five hundred right or forty dollar FIA five hundred's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now they're actually, they got a little bit more expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like have you driven past our Nissan dealer molder?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is an insane
[SPEAKER_01]: visual right now because they have more areas on that lot than I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason for that is because Colorado has some of the highest state incentives.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're getting a lot of EVs dumped on our shores, which is really good for EV buyers here because they're super discounted.
[SPEAKER_00]: But think about this, tell me, a hundred and forty thousand EVs on the ground with a very substantial tax benefit going away at the end of September.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're not as cheap as they were, but this is before.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is none of this is filtered down through to incentives yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to take a, you know, that that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Law was just signed, that bill was just signed it a law, what three days ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not going to be, you're not going to see it reflected in current lease options.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it a week or two, and it's going to be a feeding frenzy out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think that in some ways getting rid of that incentive is going to be good for EV sales, because I sincerely believe that as an around town car, let's face it Americans, for the most part, have two vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: As in around car, there is no better vehicle than an EV.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so much easier to live with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't want to go, you know, beat this dead horse, but no reason to ever go back to the dealership because there is very little if any maintenance.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to put oil in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not according to the Fiat dealers, it called me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's a whole other story.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a dealer thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a real thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: No oil to change, no fluids to change.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's still stuff that wears out, like the stuff that you suspension breaks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's over a lot of miles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably not in the list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the usual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every ten thousand miles you get to go and get stuff changed and fluids refilled and changed so forth and so on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's number one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number two, if you own a house, if you're lucky enough to own a house or live someplace where there is a charger, it's super cheap and super efficient to do it at your place of residence versus having to go fill up at a gas station.
[SPEAKER_00]: Forget about the fact of having to wait in long cost school lines or going to sketchy gas stations.
[SPEAKER_00]: You bring the thing home, you plug it in, you wake up, it's full of gas, and you never have to go see a gas station.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you do it at home, or if you're lucky enough to have a charge right to your apartment or wherever you live, then the price is about half that of filling it up with gasoline.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's also much more fuel efficient of these budget-efficient if you're actually buying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's something about an EV where it just incorporates much
[SPEAKER_00]: much easier into my lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I get in the thing, somehow it just feels more compatible with kind of the around town driving I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just feel better just zipping around doing errands and you are in any kind of a gas vehicle where you're spewing all kinds of
[SPEAKER_00]: pollution into the air and I feel good about that as a person so I think that the next three months are going to be the golden age of EV buying so if you've been waiting and I'm not I don't have a horse in this race I'm just hopefully trying to convince you that if if you've been waiting to buy an EV this is the right time to do it and then the other thing that's good about the incentives I think there's a lot of people that immediately turned off
[SPEAKER_00]: the idea of ever owning an EV once the government said you have to have one by twenty thirty five or I'm taking your hemmy out of your cold at hands and now that it's more of an option versus a threat or a legislative imperative I think more people who have this natural tendency like I do if you try to force something on me then my first my first an immediate reaction is not to want it
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You seem doubtful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, look, you're speaking about this like this is going to be the gold-nage of EVV for the next three months.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going to happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's such a short amount of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going to happen in October?
[SPEAKER_00]: EV prices are going to go up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then no one's going to buy that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that there's, there's such a pushback for maybe, I mean, the fact, so I'm looking at, let me put my computer here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me, let me finish my thought here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking at a Nissan RA right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: On time is Nissan, okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hundred and forty nine dollars a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: thirty-six months with zero dollars down and that's a forty-eight thousand dollar car that tells me pretty immediately that they have to the the only way these cars are moving is because of these crazy incentives and that tells me that based on simple supply and demand
[SPEAKER_01]: folks don't want these electric cars right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have to do these deals to get them to go out the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the question Tommy that I'm asking myself is, if you introduce better tech, let's look at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm holding up my iPhone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when this iPhone came out and people had flip phones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Immediately people said, you know, I like the fact that not only do I now can text and make phone calls, but I'm basically walking around with a little computer on my pocket so I can get online.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can get apps so let me do all kinds of handy-dadi things I can check the weather, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: This was a better technology than the previous second phones.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think that electric cars in a lot of ways are better technology than the current state of internal combustion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not just talking about the fact that they don't have a very part intensive
[SPEAKER_00]: internal combustion power train that tends to break over time or that tends to need a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about just a performance envelope, which is much greater.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about how quiet they are to drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's just a lot of benefits that EVs have.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then if that was the case, why are they there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there was so much misinformation and so much hatred that was associated with EVs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It became a political, yeah, but it became a political hot potato.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people instead of
[SPEAKER_00]: making buying decisions on the merits, they made buying decisions based on whether they voted Republican or Democrat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And imagine if the same thing had happened to us smartphones, if all of a sudden, progressive people said, I want a smartphone, but this happened to some extent.
[SPEAKER_00]: And conservative people said, no, no, no, I'm going to stick with my old flip phone because, you know, take it out of my cold and hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now that there's parity,
[SPEAKER_00]: that there's parity in pricing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe some of those people who were so dense at against the EV might actually like, you know, open up their wallets and find out that the EV does fit their lifestyle, or at least, potentially, you're actually, I disagree that there's not parity.
[SPEAKER_01]: EVs are so, so much more affordable right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not, it's not even close.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking at this Nissan website.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can get an area for far less than you can even get a basic Nissan kicks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're way cheaper and they're still not selling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's because you've got this problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got this Red Bull problem right away.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got this red bull problem, and the red bull problem is when they asked to find a red bull white was so expensive, he said, well, how else would you know that it's good?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've got that problem with the EV now, because they're so discounted, and because they're being pushed so hard, people make this automatic assumption that they're not any good, that they're crap, and so they don't even consider the option of owning them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, the difference between the Rolex and this Apple watch that I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: the Rolex doesn't do .
[SPEAKER_00]: consigned to the scrap heap of cars, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They throw away their cheap, you know, they can't go rid of them on the dealership.
[SPEAKER_00]: And human nature, when you do that, kind of automatically says, well, this is not worth my time, this is not worth my money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead, I want the thing that is more precious, that is more valuable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with parity, I think that you might start to see a shifting of the buying, no way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, because the problem is that you keep saying parity, we're beyond parity.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what coming I think it's good the EVs are going to get more expensive price.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're not dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to hurt them because they're already expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like this least deal is cheap, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I could go buy the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could go spend forty eight dollars on the car, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing so much how much how much is let's look at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much is a mid-size RAF for
[SPEAKER_00]: probably forty-two forty-two and how much would an anac five be probably if you got the base one probably about the same amount so there but there is no parity because the anac five is going to get a seven five hundred discount or you're saying that the cars are going to sell better because they're going to get more expensive
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying potentially the reason that EVs aren't selling to a lot of people is because of the perception.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now because of the reality, because of the perception and if you change the perception, you can change the reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at this as a glass half full as opposed to a glass half empty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now most people would say that the biggest reason people make a buying decision is based on cost and I'm not disputing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm coping that at some point when there's a lot of use TVs in the market and people come to the dealership and decide, well, I need a second car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this EV that's there because right now it's much cheaper than the gas car.
[SPEAKER_00]: People will buy that thing and they'll get into it and I'll be like, you know what, this thing isn't as bad as I thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some people find the exact opposite.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people say, I hate this thing and that's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I like free market and I like parity and I'm hoping
[SPEAKER_00]: that the free market will do well for EVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what we're going to see is an absolute cratering of the EV market.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what people are saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because Dad, what you're arguing is true, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The cars are better, but they're better now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing's going to change in three months.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just going to get more expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: The use cars are already their cheap.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can already do a perception is that they're not better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, but why would that change if the tax credit goes away?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because all of a sudden, they're going to get more expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: already expensive no no they're not expensive no in real terms are not expensive don't look at the sticker get look at the thing that you're actually paying people are smarter than that they don't look at the sticker they see how much money they're actually paying but if they were smarter than that they would see that it's a better car for less money now so why would I get to know they don't people it's like I said it's a red blow problem it doesn't the perception of what it is is more important than the reality of what it is and right now they're perception of EVs
[SPEAKER_00]: is that they're crap and that they're throw away and that they're junk.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're going to be better when they're expensive crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might actually because people value what they pay for something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to see a cratering of the... That's what everybody's saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is to find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: If the cars aren't selling when they're cheap, why would the same car sell?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not about... But the perception is that the reason they're not selling is because half America thinks that this has something to do with their politics.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not going to change in three months.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would that change in three months?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know what'll change it?
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: Gas prices.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gas prices would have an impact on eB sales.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gas prices.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've lived long enough to know that gas prices, you know, ping pong up and down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when, you know, your mom bought her Prius when gas got to be a five dollars a gallon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they will come in time and they're not so distant future where gas prices will go up because this is what gas prices do, whether it's some, you know, cookie idea that some dictator has somewhere to invade a country or because of some natural disaster gas prices will always go up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if that happens and EV sales are going to become
[SPEAKER_00]: much more resilient than they are today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, I think the hardest thing that people are fighting is the fact that there's price parity or in some cases, gas is cheaper than electricity.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if that flips and that will happen, Tommy, then all of a sudden, EVs will become much more in demand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gas prices will affect it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't believe that saying the car's going to be more expensive is going to make it seem like a more premium good.
[SPEAKER_01]: What you're going to end up with is people saying the car was already undesirable and now it's undesirable and overpriced.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the opposite that can happen, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's easy for a company like Rolex or Red Bull to say we're charging premium prices because they're also a premium brand, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're selling a premium experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: A Nissan Aria is not considered by anyone to be a premium experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the people who build these cars understand that, I mean, and that's why, for instance, the Rolls Royce, what's the electric one that just says?
[SPEAKER_00]: The specter, the Rolls Royce Specter is selling very well, and it's selling to a much younger audience in most Rolls Royce's.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say the media made just a specter by is in the forest, which is unheard of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of China.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Worldwide.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just China.
[SPEAKER_01]: But China is what drives rules race.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure it's just China.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just heard a podcast about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: China is what drives the rules race market and especially young people in China, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's easy to say that the specter selling not because it's electric, but because it is a rules race.
[SPEAKER_01]: That already is a pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the other specters aren't selling.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ones that are selling are the specters.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's hard to, let's put it this way, piss into the wind when the wind is blowing EV.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the day, electric cars are just better at being cars than, I'm gonna say it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just better cars than internal combustion.
[SPEAKER_00]: They may not be more fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they may not, toe better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And right now, they may not have more range, but give it ten years.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just a better car.
[SPEAKER_00]: The better, if you can charge them at home,
[SPEAKER_00]: They would not be better for someone like Cole or videographer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ten years ago, you know, EA's were just starting to come out and Tesla had its own network.
[SPEAKER_00]: Today, the Tesla's supercharging network is open to most manufacturers.
[SPEAKER_00]: These things will change.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would argue, and also changing, you know, charging is quickly improving.
[SPEAKER_00]: Battery technology is quickly improving.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it ten years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And an EV will have more range than internal combustion car unless you fill it with, you know, but I'm not sure that's gonna matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really don't because unless you have a place to charge it up at home, people don't want to stop it.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you're arguing is for the football.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am arguing for the football because there are instances that plenty of cases throughout history where the worst technology failed and the better technology was.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that wasn't worldwide.
[SPEAKER_00]: Worldwide.
[SPEAKER_00]: the better technology usually wins and that's because you know a lot of technology is driven by it's face it by war and in war it doesn't matter what your political beliefs are if you can create a bomb that blows up more people whether you believe that bomb is what is that to do with this area what it has to do with this is what what I'm trying to make the case by are you as good as it is better technology always ends up winning because if you sit and hold on to the old technology somebody will come along
[SPEAKER_00]: whether it's in war or in commerce because commerce oftentimes is more and they will wipe your ass away until you can no longer sell that car so if GM is forced to in America because this is a worldwide industry right right is forced to build internal combustion cars because of whatever you know the market says here but the rest of the world goes electric then GM's not going to be around very long and that's the same for Ford and the same and and these people realize this because these are worldwide companies
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think that the market also has a big impact on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just because they're going electric in China doesn't mean we're going to go electric in the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to electric in Europe, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but doesn't mean we're going to go electric in the US.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm saying as a worldwide company, you can't build and make a profit.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if GM sells the majority of their cars here, the vast majority.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do they sell the majority of their cars?
[SPEAKER_00]: GM sells cars worldwide.
[SPEAKER_00]: They build their cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they sell the majority of their cars here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that it's naive to say because a technology is better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to win.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's other forces.
[SPEAKER_01]: in favor of the worst technology.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it takes us five dollars to get on gas to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've seen it.
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, I just saw a really, I saw really interesting documentary piece about beta max versus VHS, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: VHS won that by a huge margin, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you do realize that petroleum and oil is a finite resource.
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But VHS won that argument by one one the competition by a huge
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, margin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody remembers beta max.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody better.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you look at the objective technology between VHS and beta max, beta max was a better format.
[SPEAKER_01]: But VHS won because it was cheaper.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't win the war.
[SPEAKER_00]: It won the battle time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could win the war.
[SPEAKER_00]: So beta max might be coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could know, you know, digital, digital, digital won the war.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, but it's better technology than beta or, but VHS.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you win the, you win the battle, but you still lose the war.
[SPEAKER_01]: in that period.
[SPEAKER_01]: the VHS one, even though beta max was in a lot of ways a better technology.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would argue that back in the turn of the century, the electric car in nineteen ten was a better technology than the gasoline car.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was horrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: But horrible batteries had no range.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then horrible cars, these cars, you like to face backwards to go forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: This, this, this, it was not a better chance.
[SPEAKER_00]: But all to all cars were horrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_01]: You nailed it, electric cars are cool, and I'm not sure electric cars will ever be cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was key what you just said.
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't going to test the model as planned.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen the resell value on model as planned?
[SPEAKER_01]: If they were so, if they were so cool, why are they selling for forty-eight thousand when they were hundred and twenty-two?
[SPEAKER_00]: Tommy, it's a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, have this argument.
[SPEAKER_00]: And once again, you never just my issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the issue?
[SPEAKER_00]: They won the battle, but lost the war.
[SPEAKER_00]: Digital at one over.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the day, the better technology, which is digital one over an electric, you believe electric technology is better than gas for power and power.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not for everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, period.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't make some like but for this or that in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think electricity is a better form of a car than?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to answer that because I don't think it's black and white.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's easy to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's easy to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if your coal is a better coal is a better?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not better for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's better for my wife, but it's not better for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can't say it's a better technology.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can say it's a better technology.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because cold is an apartment complex, it doesn't have electric charges.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make it a worse technology.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just means that the infrastructure isn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the technology is still better, but the infrastructure just isn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the infrastructure will be there, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I have, if I have an electric weedwacker in a gas weedwacker, the electric one's better, well, I can't charge it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: The gas one's better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, you know, today more people are buying electric lawnmowers and they're buying gas lawnmowers.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not the making.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you were a little guy, right, we were all driving around in RC cars that were gasoline power.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how many kinds of hours trying to start those things and they would overheat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you would run out of that weird, you know, gas and they would spill all over the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now everybody's using electric same thing with RC.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with RC airplanes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a cleaner, easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the word is easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just an easier technology.
[SPEAKER_01]: with any kind of technology, you can simply not say one is better than, okay, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a helicopter or a plane better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can definitively say that a gun is better than a ball in arrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could definitively say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the helicopter better than plane.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not comparable technology.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they both fly.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they're not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a, I can definitively say that a jet is better than a prop.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could definitely say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can say that because most applications, people use jet, sure there are some applications where props are better.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in general, yes, is better than so.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying, but you're saying an EV is always better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying in most instances an EV is better tech.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's easier, and that's the key, it's easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cleaner, and I'm not talking about just emissions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just talking about just ease of use, ease of repair, ease of everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a lot easier to live with.
[SPEAKER_01]: For a lot of people is easier, but for some people it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And those people's lifestyle might not change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, if you're if you're towing EV sucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if you live in an apartment that doesn't have charging.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, it's coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, yeah, if you have to drive cross country, pretty big issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but most of us don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, okay, one's coal.
[SPEAKER_00]: One's the last time you drove cross country.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with TFL.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: But does he drive me one's the last time you drove country with TFL?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: But does coal drive and electric car?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it doesn't work for him, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in college.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I just, I just asked Mary this question.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's been driving the leaf.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mary loves the Nissan leaf.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Loves it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, so would you love it enough to own it as your only car?
[SPEAKER_00]: Huh?
[SPEAKER_01]: She said absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I say only car?
[SPEAKER_00]: I said second car.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: You said it's better.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it's better technology, why didn't I said, when I started this, I said, most Americans own two cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is second car as the commuter car is better.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it was only car, if it's better technology, she would want that as a only car.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the other problem with that argument is, I just showed it, most people buy cars for what they think they're going to do with them, not for what they do with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I completely accept that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But everybody's like, oh, what if I need to go see crazy and then in chat, Nuga, and I've got an electric car and I can't get down.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact is, you're probably not going to go see her and if you are, you're going to have a plane and you're not going to drive there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where we're at.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just was at the airport.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, it's so fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, let's get off this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're boring people to death.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think you bring up a good point.
[SPEAKER_01]: People buy cars for things that they don't need to afford, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is going to ultimately hinder the electric car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I talked to mom about this, who drives an EV.
[SPEAKER_01]: She said she'd go back to gas, married go back to gas, Morgan would go back to gas because they think they're going to need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They never do, but they think they're going to need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is what is going to hurt electric car for the next ten years, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless there's a monumental shift, which could happen, where you can fill up an electric car at home in five minutes and get three and a miles of range, then they're going to always have that perception of being city secondary cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's already happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think most people now have access to the Tesla charging network, which is, you know, by far the best network in America, and it's up ninety nine point nine percent of the time, a lot of people have had really bad experiences with electrifying America, including us, where you show up, but that never happens to Tesla.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tesla is always working.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's still a perception.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on top of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're still under time as people start using the network and as they become comfortable using it and as they figure out how to not in California I get it you guys in California need a lot more chargers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean there you can show up at a Tesla Supercharger with you know countless chargers and still have to wait a long line.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still not there, but it is getting there.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's let's end this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm bored of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just kind of wanted to give you my take on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about why it sucks buying cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I always think to myself buying a car should be fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love both electric and gas cars, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the best day in my life is when I buy a new car and yet I was thinking to myself, I always dread it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether it's a new car or use car, I always dread it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought about
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do I dread it?
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's start with new cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason I dread buying new cars is because the process is inherently time consuming and not in a good way, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you walk into like a jewelry shop and you pick out the exact amount of a jewelry guy, but the exact ring or something and then you give me a credit card, you walk home with it at a card dealership, you always feel like you're a prey.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because they're trying to, I mean, actually, I think in jewelry shops, you also feel like you're praying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Any time that there's, I think a purchase that is... It's predatory.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a predatory business transaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the problem is that it's a huge purchasing decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's also a lot of rules and regulations associated to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which have not made it better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you an anecdote.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember when we bought that, Land Rover, and this is TFL.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have all of you guys listening to this podcast, or watching it on Facebook, fifty million views, a month, millions of views on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we carry up pretty substantial audience when we come and do something, and you would think that people would value that, especially like dealers would value that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we bought that, Defender
[SPEAKER_00]: I found it online, which is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was at a dealership in Salt Lake City.
[SPEAKER_00]: I called and this is on a week on a holiday weekend where banks were going to be closed on Monday.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that meant that I could mean you could fly out there and pick it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you know, I did the deal over the phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: We agreed on a price.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I said, I can't bring you a cashier's check because this was the Saturday.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bank was going to be closed.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was Labor Day weekend, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And Monday when we were flying to pick it up, the bank was going to be closed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I talked to the manager at the dealership, and he said, no problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are TFL.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll take a company check.
[SPEAKER_00]: So get on the plane, looking forward to buying this car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually when we buy cars, we usually buy me either at Brighton, Ford, or Johnson, or Plaza, and Brighton.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's because they know us.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I walk in there and I'm out within two minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cut him a check, I initial a bunch of paperwork, and I'm out of there, which is just a wonderful way to buy a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of the reason I can do that is because we're TFL because we're bringing the large audience with us, but the same thing would be true in Salt Lake City.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I show up, you're looking at the car, you're doing the video, and I'm sitting there once again, cooling my heels, while the manager is doing whatever the manager is doing, not certainly not dealing with me, and then finally the manager comes in and says, by the way, we can't tell you the car because
[SPEAKER_00]: We need a cashier's check.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I had this conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I told you, and then he said, well, I called the owner and he won't take your check.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm in a position where, you know, we have to either buy the car and drive home or buy the same day ticket.
[SPEAKER_00]: get back in the overfly to the airport and just piss away my holiday weekend because what we had agreed upon the dealership wasn't honoring and then you know the only the only choice at that point I had was saying to them and this is what this is why I feel back as most people can't do this like you know saying to them
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I could leave here buying a car and being very happy about buying a new car or I could leave here being very pissed off about the fact that you didn't honor the agreement that we, and they're, you know, to their side, they were like, well, we had somebody buy a G-wagon and they give us a company check and, you know, it didn't bounce.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why they're hesitant.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, that's not my problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is kind of your problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's your problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not my problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the reasoning is to why they don't take it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get the reasoning, but that's once again not my problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is your problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the cost of my business.
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand their hesitance.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is why I think it's difficult to buy a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then why do you why do you understand they're going back on the agreement?
[SPEAKER_01]: We had that was wrong They should not they shouldn't have they shouldn't have either accepted to check in the first place or said we can only do this for a cashier Yeah, I would be going back as a problem, but I understand fundamentally why they wouldn't in the first place as they should have been sure and I wouldn't have bought the ticket now wouldn't have bought the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is bait and switch basically
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was bait and switch, but that's not, that was fundamentally not an issue with buying the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a problem with that dealership.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, yes, but it's an example of why buying cars like because it took what would have been a really wonderful moment in my life buying a new car with you and then road tripping a back home, it turned it into a very stressful and very unpleasant situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: where I was forced into a corner of whether I actually want to buy this thing and I was forced to threaten somebody with making a video that would have exposed this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is me talking, you know, I feel very fortunate to be able to have this audience that we carry with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't have that audience and you're in that same corner, what do you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not... Well, you have to get a cashier's check.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they told me that I didn't need a cashier, and I couldn't get one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you go, you just don't buy the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And luckily, there's enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in such a free market that you've got other options, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go to, you can go to other dealerships.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the bigger problem here is that this particular dealer was just unethical, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They went back on their word.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the reason that it's so difficult to buy a car at any dealership is because it's such a large amount of money and there's, that transaction is right for fraud for both the buyer and the seller in that case, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got buyers that are trying to get away with buying cars with money they don't have and you've got sellers trying to sell you cars that are potentially faulty to begin with.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've gotten to this point right now after fifteen years where I don't think I would buy a new car from a dealership that I have not dealt with before.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because they're oh, and it's not just that dealer.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's there's always something that involves some fight or some discussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an incredibly stressful experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I think companies like you should talk about your experience and with F five how many times did you have to go back and sign the paperwork?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you got that five hundred
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean when I least my car had to go back three or four times to re-sign the paperwork because it was just in my opinion incompetence that they didn't know how to do the paperwork and granted it was a it was a deal that then done before this essentially free fee at least and they messed it up a couple times but I would make the argument why are you offering a deal you don't know how to do and then make me come back three times to re-sign the paperwork and how long they're taking to at least like our how long were you at the dealership before eight hours
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah and that and that was also unacceptable and that's because they were credit checks and then I had to get a co-application and then it was just a lot of time sitting around waiting for the finance people to get their stuff together which clearly they didn't do I mean I think that with the rules regulation set up to buy cars in this country especially from dealership
[SPEAKER_01]: There are, and I took the dealer class in Colorado, is that there are so many things you have to know how to do and do it correctly, and people just don't know how to do it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they go into it without that knowledge and how to do it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're also involving banks.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the car company finances institutions, and they all have to talk to each other on the same day at the same time, or you end up waiting for eight hours to not buy a car, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The best way to buy a car for manufacturer is through a direct sales model, like a Tesla or Rivian plant, where it's all done through the organization,
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They take care of all the people working in house.
[SPEAKER_01]: They know how to do it because they've done it a hundred thousand times with just that car and then you go through the online portal, you sort of find anything through it being or through Tesla, you show up, take delivery and drive out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we bought our Tesla Model III, the first one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That experience was actually pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: We went to the store.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is now ten years ago, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was a guy who said, hey, let me walk you through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he kind of showed me everything about the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by the time we bought the last one, which was a cyber truck, basically I walked in the store and I'm gonna check.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said the truck is around the back.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's yours.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I think a lot of people preferred.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet that a lot of people went away from that model of being walked around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Truck was dirty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Tano cover sort of kind of worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's Tesla for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this was a hundred thousand dollar truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like I had just bought a garbage can at the local grocery store.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you kind of bought one that looks like it, but the
[SPEAKER_00]: But you see what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was like nothing special.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a hundred thousand dollar purchase.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, oh, here you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a check.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, at least some dealers, they'll park it someplace special.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we bought the nine, eleven, remember they had the cover on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They pulled the cover off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I had spent money on something that was unique and special.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I had earned something that was worth all the hard work I put into it with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just, there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's also a little bit of a generational thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't feel like getting a new car is something that should be celebrated.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I want to celebrate on my own time, the last thing I want to do is interact with people in buying a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if I look at all of my friends, maybe Cole feels this way, but I know my wife would feel this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: She would hate having someone walkers through the features.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she would say, I know how to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to figure it out and enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: My name is there, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's from what I see a lot of the older generation, not that you're old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I am old.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people want that kind of feeling that they're being like weighted on, bespoke, bespoke, where a lot of my generation just wants to make the transaction with the least possible human interaction and then go enjoy the car with it by themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like for me personally, even if I was buying a cyber truck, I don't want somebody explaining to me how the lights work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go figure that out myself, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to go in there, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You would check and then leave as soon as physically possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're a business and you understand that this is a generational, wouldn't you offer different people like ladies who are by its true bespoke?
[SPEAKER_00]: ways of, you know, if, if I walk in there and I want that walk around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should have offered and you can use a new car concierge.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want, take the car and go and if you don't want, I'll be happy to show you all the features or I'll be happy to show you some of the features.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they for sure should do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give people the choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually they do, like when we bought our model, why they asked us, do you want us to show you how it works?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but I went from the first time to the last time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they should offer that, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for certainly, for older folks, especially with something that's complicated as a Tesla.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't make it into a generation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it kind of is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't make it into a generation of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, if Cole, if I gave Cole a model three and said, go drive this, he would get in, figure it out and go.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I gave my mom a model three and said, go drive this, she would have no idea what to do, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is a little bit of a generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are also people of your generation time who are technologically.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm so savvy and who struggle with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty bad with tech not just young and tech don't necessarily go together even though people do conflate the two, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people's minds work very efficiently with technology and some people's minds don't work and I can
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that because you're a grandma right ever since she was a young girl struggled with anything that was technological loop and right now it's just become a for young we get it and if you're old you don't get it but with her she just didn't get tech period well but yeah because that was her but I think she's a very good cook I don't know anybody has different talents but I've never met anyone like my grandma
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever before you're so he she could not figure out how a power button works, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't I think of all of all the people in my friend group I'm probably the worst with tech and I'm still better than a lot of the old I know you're not bad the tech
[SPEAKER_01]: You should see me try to like do some stuff on my phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty embarrassing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Morgan makes fun of me like every time I open up my camera I'm always taking videos of the pictures and doing that weird thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty bad with tech and it's not just generational.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be something that goes across all lines.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, this is on a little aside here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think that we have not done ourselves any favors by segmenting ourselves when I was younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like
[SPEAKER_00]: all people that were young people and they were middle age people and we were just all people now of course every generation has to have a label and then label has now stuck so that every generation identifies with whatever that label is and I'm not sure that has done us any good because now it becomes you've got this like all this baggage you're carrying if you're in your twenties and you've got all this other baggage that you're carrying if you're not in your twenties and it's not helping I think in the world that all of a sudden just stereotype a generation based on whatever
[SPEAKER_00]: consensus that some demographic marketer has come up with for that generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that that is that is doing us any good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you look at people, people are people, you know, we all bleed bread and we all have the same ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all have the same needs.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all have the same hopes and aspirations.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by segmenting us and saying no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're much different based on whatever part of your life you're in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're doing ourselves any good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also don't want someone explaining how this type of truck works.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair, but give me the opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they should give you the opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, and then there's, you know, you put your finger on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, this is, no, we have two reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do top seven while I buy a new vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's number two or number seven, six.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's go to number five.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that has to do with all of the paperwork that's associated with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what's happened over time, unscrupulous salespeople have done all these different things to make it painful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the government has stepped in to try to correct that paperwork.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's become this paperwork monster where you have to sign all this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just meaningless.
[SPEAKER_00]: People sign it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the dealers know that you're not reading it.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... the people who are signing it aren't reading it was just stuff you have to sign that doesn't actually do anything unless of course you're called on it and the government comes in and audits you but that but that's why you sign it right like no one actually reads lemon law disclosures right
[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't want to read it until you need to lend them a lawyer car, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're glad you signed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So once again, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is way too much paperwork, but I understand why that paperwork is there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And from taking my dealer class, nine out of ten pieces of paper you're signing are for your protection and not for the dealer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other problem with the lemon laws is that each state has a different... Yeah, every state is going to be a little different.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in some states it's relatively straightforward to lemon law your car, but other states it's almost impossible.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like for example, a rule that that's great in Colorado is if you buy a used car from a dealership, one of the requirements in the Denver counties to register it is it has to pass the missions, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the dealer's responsibility to provide you with an emissions test.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about something that just happened where that did not work as advertised.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as you know, we just bought land rover disco five.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a diesel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, it's the long Colorado states that you, as a seller.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, just the dealer, as a seller of a car, are responsible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're a private seller, you're responsible for making sure that car passes emissions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it doesn't pass emissions, you can unwind that deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you sell me your car and I take it in to the emissions, the smog place, and it doesn't pass, I can go back to you and say, hey, my money back, the car does not pass.
[SPEAKER_01]: Within, I think it gets a forty-eight hour period.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the... Yeah, it's like if you wait three weeks to do it, you're on your own, but he's gonna do it immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when that law first passed, the dealers would take cars and then we get them to the mission tested, and then they would give you the little slip saying that it's passed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now they have condensed that into basically giving you a credit, so they give you, I think it's whatever is, twenty-five bucks or something, and they make a Euro-responsibility to go and get the car emissions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it doesn't pass, then you gotta go back and you gotta argue with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: That one was a little different though, the discovery, because it was a diesel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so they gave me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Diesel emissions is a whole other can't work, but they're dealers.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should know this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they gave us a credit toward, what's the Colorado place called, the does the emissions testing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Air care.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they gave us a credit toward air care Colorado, except that air care Colorado doesn't do emissions test easels.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because to a mission test to car, it's like, twenty five or thirty bucks to a mission test to diesel.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a hundred and fifty bucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you got to go to a independently private ride depending on what you take.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they gave me the slip and I look at them like, okay, call up aircare car or like, hey, we don't do diesels.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what the hell?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is, you know, once again, something that they should know, they're not, they're not the only diesels that they sell this to dealership, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They sell your vehicles too.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden, is useless.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, they didn't know that aircare car or rather doesn't do diesels.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, then I have to argue with them, and then they're like, okay, yeah, go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Emissions tested, then send us the receipt, and then we'll pay you grudgingly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, very unpleasant.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's opposed to something.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of steps.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying there's, there are, there's a ton of steps to buying a car from a dealer.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, and it's usually a mess, and I think it's larger because a lot of people don't understand how it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even after taking the dealer class, I wouldn't feel confident selling someone a car at the dealer.
[SPEAKER_01]: because there's a lot of paperwork you have to go through, a ton of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you get it wrong, then you have to have that person come back and fix it, or you open up the potential of being sued or shut down by the dealer board.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing that's great about where we buy our cars is they know that we're not going to get any of the after sale stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: or you go into the business managers office and they're like, hey, do you want this warranty?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want this rust protect?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want this anti theft device that we've hidden?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so luckily, they understand that we don't want that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think because it used to be so very competitive in America to sell cars, they made money in other ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the obvious way, and I'm at a dealer side, I don't understand this process, but I understand a little bit about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other way was, of course, by screwing the buyer.
[SPEAKER_00]: By hooking up like you said with banks, and then getting making more money actually financing the car than selling the car, which is already a problem because instead of selling cars, you're becoming a financing corporation of some sorts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I also think it was easier to screw people back in the day because you didn't have the internet to find out what that car is worth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, you had Kelly blue book, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine in the seventies, let's say I'm buying a Ford Pinto, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I live in Boulder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would go to both four dealerships and figure out which one would give you the best price, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of put up against each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you really don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually getting a good deal on that Pinto.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the national sales price that can't go on auto trader and see it?
[SPEAKER_01]: This dealer is this Pinto for this and this and this and this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it was probably easier back in the day to price gouge someone based on on that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's hard to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have the ability of the dealership to add on stuff like you're saying, like the security thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the bigger problem I have with that is not then trying to do that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's them trying to do that and then saying it cannot be removed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we added safe guard on this car, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or it's got the Colorado Sun Protection package.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it has to be on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, who says it has to be on that?
[SPEAKER_01]: The dealers has to be on that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a bigger problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other bigger problem I have, and this is a big one that people fall into in Colorado, especially I don't know what it is in other states, but the dealer fee, dealer and handling, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is something that is completely arbitrary.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is completely arbitrary based on the dealer and it's pure profit and more importantly, it has to be in the contract.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, the manufacturers are doing the same thing that with the delivery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also just an arbitrary number that they, it's just pure profit that they had on top.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then a lot of dealers are on Colorado.
[SPEAKER_01]: You go to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a six ninety nine dealer feet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or seven ninety nine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to pay that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it has to be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, well, then take that price out of the purchase price of the car, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with, like I said dealer, not dealer, manufactured, delivering handling, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It used to be like nine, ninety five.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now, destination, yeah, destination.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I want to say, cilantro is at almost two thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the interesting one, BMW and many are still kind of low on their destination fees.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what's happening is because of the tariffs is turning to bite.
[SPEAKER_00]: The manufacturers are making the money up in different ways and one of those ways is by jacking up the delivery and destination fees which also makes you feel like you're getting ripped off because now you know that even though the car came from let's say you're Detroit became from Windsor across the river and it just lands this product it's twenty minutes away and they're charging a two thousand dollars to track out across the river
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it's just crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you just said something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go number four, which has made things worse and that is of course the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: The internet has made a lot of things worse and one of them is buying a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you noticed that if you ever go on the internet and you find a car you like at some independent dealer, they all have five stars.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing at how every steel dealership has five out of five stars.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you start reading through them and it's like, oh, I love Jim was great blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you finally get to one where I don't use this dealer ship because they completely rip me off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you don't know which one to believe.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reviews that you once upon a time could use to act to judge whether you want to buy that car from that dealership are now useless because people have stacked the deck to make them seem like every dealer is on a level playing field, which they're obviously not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but the internet's also opened up so many more cars that are available to buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that lander where we found it's all like, we would never have found that car before the dealership.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but then the flip side of that is, for instance, you know, Toyota dealerships have no control as to what's on their dealership.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all done through, if you're in the Southwest region, whatever the distributor is for Toyota.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the dealership takes their feed off of whatever cars are coming, which is something that's populated by the manufacturer or distributor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you go on a Toyota website and you see that the car is whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might not be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just transit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in transit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's annoying.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it also, I mean, think about, think about what it's, I mean, it's more than knowing if it's in transit and you actually drive out there and then you find out that the vehicle that you're interested in isn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, God, I hope you wouldn't drive a call them first to see if it's there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, wouldn't you believe what it's on the internet?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we should never believe what's on the internet ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's also a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I mean, it just sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you go on here and you'd be like, hey, I wonder if that car is still there and oftentimes when we were buying, you know, stubby, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They would advertise cars, maybe the ships would advertise in this case trucks that they didn't even have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is also unethical, but that's a good, we would never found stubby without dinner.
[SPEAKER_00]: How would we have worked?
[SPEAKER_01]: But how would we have found stubbing Idaho before the Internet?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but I would never have called that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I should have called like fifteen dealerships.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fake trucks that didn't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be sure I found one that didn't exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing too is the Internet is opened up a whole new realm of use car possibilities, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist and I'm sure we'll complain about them in a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they
[SPEAKER_00]: are they have just transformed the use car industry right before you go to a newspaper go to the classifier to have no picture of a nineteen seventy eight cordoba and then call the guy and try to figure out if the car doesn't have us or figure out buying a little Volkswagen bug you know the buggy right and I was on Facebook and I found up in Wyoming and that's pretty far for us is a couple hours so I'm not going to drive up there unless I'm really confident that I want to buy the thing
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I messaged, let's talk about private sales.
[SPEAKER_00]: I messaged the owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, is this still available?
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, yes, make me an offer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had two pictures, two pictures, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I wouldn't buy a Costco chicken based on two pictures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you know, and that is also the problem where you basically end up, I like to call this the seller who knows what they have.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know what they have and make them an offer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And more often than not, I have found that what they have is nowhere near what they think they have, but is what they hope they have if you understand what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's another example of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was looking at a Facebook, I was like, and this is on Craigslist, I was looking at a Fiat, a five hundred classic Fiat, a five hundred?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: spider and you can go I'm very assizing that a KBB you can go to like bring a trailer you can go to cars and biz and you can actually see what these cars are selling for and this guy listed this thing for five no it's twenty thousand dollars and get most of them are selling for ten thousand dollars and that's not me that's not on him
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, you would think that a seller would maybe do some research just like they would take some more pictures so that they could help sell that car because obviously when they list a car at double the current market value, it's just going to sit there and it's just going to clutter up all the listings.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure that the internet, I think the internet has made it easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least you know what that car looks like before when you were calling on a newspaper and you might have a blurry black and white photo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but you know what, and it's also free to list a car online where you use to have some Craigslist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but in Facebook where everyone does their car transactions, you use it to pay a newspaper to post a car, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's nothing, there's, there's just nothing, it's just, it's all.
[SPEAKER_00]: waiting through so much noise to be able to find that diamond in the rough, if you're looking for something that is being sold privately and you almost have to be an expert at buying cars and it asking the right question before you can even get to the point of going to look at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's always been like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just think that's how it is buying a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe they're trying to hide stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe maybe you just put your finger on the thing that makes buying cars so difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is these are emotional.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they're decisions, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You believe with your heart instead of your head off and at least I do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're also thinking you're spending four thousand dollars for a car instead of four dollars for a chicken.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That chickens bad, I just lost four dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: The car is bad, I lost four thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a higher risk transaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's always going to be more drama involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, I'm not even talking about the fact that I'm trying buying a house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even talking about the fact that many people on touch online sales of vehicles because they're too afraid and rightfully so that they're going to get murdered.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure, but that, I mean, if I call someone in the newspaper, I'm not sure I'm more likely to get murdered online than in the newspaper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or ripped off, or, you know, somehow scan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the internet as a whole has made car buying a lot better, because it leads to more informed people, where you able to do more research on that car and have a better understanding of the market value before they go and look at the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they also know what to look for than it did before the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess the whole thing for me is buying a car has now maybe because we buy a lot of cars and I'm winging and lining about something that most people really enjoy but for me it just become a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just a lot of work and the reward to work ratio is not there anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's because you just burped out of buying cards.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be, it could be that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you're like whole and you buy a car once every ten years, it's probably worth the worth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I helped cold buy his car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but if you're buying a car once every ten days, it gets a little old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe once every two weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, before we wrap this up, let's talk about the Bronco Sport very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just compared it to the Bronco.
[SPEAKER_00]: You had the new Sasquatch package, which makes it look pretty badass.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a big old road.
[SPEAKER_00]: roll on that roll bar.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a brush guard on the front.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, bigger wheels, bigger tires.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it looks pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is the Broncosport Sasquatch, which is the new off-road version of the Little Broncosport.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got bigger tires on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got more skin plating.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got some cool switches on the inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a really impressive little crossover.
[SPEAKER_01]: So most crossovers in this category like the Ford or the Toyota RAF four woodland,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of just a trim package or the CRV trail sport I drove where they put a slightly different tire on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They give it some more cladding in different paint called a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Ford really went the extra mile, including front and rear recovery points on this vehicle to make it an actual crossover you could offer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say the best or most off-road or the soft rotor you could buy?
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely the one that I've driven.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's much better than the trail sport by Honda because it's got a lot more clearance and better angles.
[SPEAKER_01]: How about the wilderness by Subaru?
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never driven it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I haven't spent much time in the I drove the force to briefly and that was also very good, but this vehicle will it sets it apart in my mind is the thickness and quality of the skin plates and the fact that it has front and rear tow hooks that are not some screw and thing that you have to mess with are permanently integrated in the front and the back and it's got a genuine offer tire It was a properly impressive little crossover
[SPEAKER_00]: How did it do compared to the Bronco Bronco?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's not on the same level.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it still is a single-speed transfer case.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, going up some of the really steep hills, it doesn't have the torque delivery of the big Broncos, but with that locking rear differential and the granted, even compared to the big Bronco, relatively limited ground clearance, it would get up a shocking number of things that you would never attempt.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what I tell people is like, with most crossovers,
[SPEAKER_01]: It will probably do what you need to do once or twice, but you're not looking for that experience at a regular rate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you wouldn't want to take a CRV Trailsport off-road on a weekly basis.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas this Broncosport Badlands, you could do mild to moderate trails every weekend and the cart would hold up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, hang with me here.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the Wrangler is the off-roader and the Renegade is the Baby Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's say they're called it the Renegades for is I mean they call that the Wrangler sport instead of the Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a the Renegades, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: How does the Broncosport compare to that or compared to the Renegades?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's mild better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so not even on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean the Renegade was kind of the Renegade was a cool first attempt, but it really lacked torque and it really lacked
[SPEAKER_01]: durability I would say for for regular offered use where I think the Broncos weren't as both of those fair yeah it's very impressive little thing yeah and it was expensive I mean it's forty six thousand dollars this one yeah I mean now you're bushing up against the Broncos Broncos but the question is do you and I know doubt the base model big Broncos gonna be better off are still because it's got a low range but do you want
[SPEAKER_01]: to live with claw seats and no heated seats in a crappy steering wheel and basic steel wheels on a regular basis, or do you want the Broncos Sport, which is gonna be worse off road, but has that every single fix and you can imagine for on-road loving?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what, I don't get tummy, and this is a real head scratcher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't any American manufacturers build a chimney?
[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, the Suzuki Samurai.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't they actually build a small vehicle with a low range as opposed to going up to that as far as possible and then not putting that low range in?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not just build a Bronco Sport that is, let's say, three quarters of a Bronco and make it as off-road worthy by giving it a low range, by giving it lockers instead of doing this kind of Bronco Sport thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: and trying to make it as good as possible without tying its hands behind its back and not giving it their low range.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: In a heartbeat, I would buy an inexpensive serious off-roader and by serious I'm defining it as something that has their low range like a chimney that they get in Europe and they get in Japan and yet in America we can't have it for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I genuinely think as much as every comment said they would love one, nobody would buy one.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Suzuki Soul, like gangbusters when it first came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it only sold in, I think, three states initially, and you had to line up for six months ago for the side, for the side, for not the side kicked the samurai, and then of course, the side he came along, and also had a lowering.
[SPEAKER_01]: And back in the day, for sure, it was a good seller.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a reason they didn't continue selling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: because they built the Kizashi.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, because they built, which is sidekick.
[SPEAKER_01]: A sex four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because people complain that the samurai was too small and too impractical.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the samurai was tiny.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not three quarters.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's half to seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: What they did is they built the sidekick, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was three quarters.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they built the Vittara because Americans say they want tiny, four-wheel drives.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when people actually buy them, I don't think they would.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because today you've got the market
[SPEAKER_00]: segmented into much smaller niches than before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before people were like, I just want to sit in, that's really will drive with a V-A.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That was everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all this rest of the stuff was kind of silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now there is a genuine need and want and demand for our froters.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet we don't have the one thing that most people want, which is a small serious four by four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the idea is awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would love to say I would buy one, but I don't even think I would buy one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would buy one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you know why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Market wouldn't let me buy one.
[SPEAKER_01]: because your wife would get in that thing and be like, what the hell is this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is why no one buys to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that is why no one buys to her anglers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every comment is say, go out and drive the actual wrinkler, not this Ford or Crats.
[SPEAKER_00]: Say it has to be a two door.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be a four door.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still wouldn't sell it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the Jimmy's a four door.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd have both.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a two and a four door.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reason the two are Wrangler is pretty close to the chimney in terms of size and maybe not price but in terms of size and nobody buys them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm back in the day Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: A mid-sized truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is now back when the Suzuki was new.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a tiny little thing about the size of a maverick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now everything has gone at least one if not two sizes up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you wouldn't have, you're just making this assumption that it would just have to be tiny.
[SPEAKER_00]: It couldn't be actually small without being tiny and still have room for all the stuff that your wife wants.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wrangler is already too small.
[SPEAKER_01]: and a Wrangler is not that small.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's one of those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like when all the car enthusiasts, every time a manufacturer builds, people are like, oh, where are all the affordable sports cars, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no affordable sports cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then Sion and Subaru come out with a affordable sports car exactly what people want and very few people buy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just enthusiasts don't, they say they want something and they want a manufacturer builds a super.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't line up and actually buy the super.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same thing with disease.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it cuts both ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think part of what you're saying is true, but part of what you're saying is also true, or these what I'm saying, and that is that one enthusiast one is oftentimes a predictor of what the general public wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the good example of that would be the manual transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've gone completely away from the manual and I think there'd be a lot of manufacturers, maybe not mainstream manufacturers, but a lot of especially high-end manufacturers that would do very well by bringing back a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so because Jeep didn't kill the manual in the gladiator because people were buying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: who loves manuals would kill for a Ferrari with a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Porsche manuals are flying up and if you look at classic vehicles, the manuals carry a huge premium over the non-manuals.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the classic world for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just at Sam's Club yesterday and there was a guy there who had the new M-Tube and that really cool baby blue color and I had to walk up to him and I said, what do you think of the car?
[SPEAKER_00]: and the first thing he said, I love it and I said, why do you love it?
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, it's gonna manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a very first thing he said.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, don't you care that it's slower?
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, no, I just love how fun it is to drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was a young man, you're age.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I put it in them too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even we are hypocrites, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we say, we want manuals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Articomo is an automatic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are Wrangler?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we do that because of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the point.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always a bus.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always a point.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why people don't people buy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you saying that everybody has a video algorithm that doesn't have a driver?
[SPEAKER_01]: But everyone has a mother-in-law that comes to town once every year and doesn't know how to drive a manual.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has a friend that might need a driver that doesn't know how to drive a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know you're conflating a business reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's the true consumer buyer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would, I would love to have bought a regular manual, but I wouldn't because my wife doesn't know the driving it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a very ordinary manual.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know before I met my wife and then I sold it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the harsh reality of the situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody says they want it and then there's the butt.
[SPEAKER_01]: But our videographer might need to drive it.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you need to drive?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe my sister needs a driver.
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't know how to drive a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, you're conflating mainstream cars with enthusiasts cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying you go out and stick a manual in a RAF four.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell no, that's our CR.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm talking about the cars that people buy as their third or fourth car because they love cars and they're enthusiasts and these like I said we have these small niches now or companies are doing very well, you know, filling in these little small niches because the mainstream.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's money in small niches.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there is money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that why are they doing the super?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's a mainstream manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's a small niche.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did they kill even the Camaro, which was a big, lit niche, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll give you a niche that makes no sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had a defines an entire brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_00]: The G-wagon.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a niche though.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think of Mercedes, if people, the thing that people think about Mercedes is a G-wagon.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that is a niche that defines a brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not a niche.
[SPEAKER_01]: If people, Beverly.
[SPEAKER_01]: C.A.
[SPEAKER_01]: Corvette defines an entire brand.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's C.A.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a niche, but the G-wagon isn't a niche.
[SPEAKER_01]: If people in Beverly Hills are buying the niche of buying a buying a G-wagon to drive to Erawan, that's not a niche.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a, that's not a, that's not a, a C-a.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what a niche becomes mainstream.
[SPEAKER_01]: C-a little bit of a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And once again, C-a quarter bets are good example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone got all upset when they killed the manual and they sell more C-aates than almost any other category.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that because it's missing a manual, they would still even more if they put a manual back to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone would buy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like C-Sevens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time I listen to it, every time I listen to a conversation with like the chief engineer of Corvette.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first question that always, what are you getting a manual?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you getting a manual?
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, C-Seven Corvette, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: C-Seven Corvette had a manual transmission.
[SPEAKER_01]: But dad, that was a manual transmission and people didn't buy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love manual, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again a little a little perspective here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love manuals more than life itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love manuals and yet having driven on the same day nine eleven with an automatic and a manual and having a chance to buy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I bought it because the seven speed was so stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate the seven speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just it just makes driving.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wrecks the manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then don't you seven?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it just sits out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does not say there's no use it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like having it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very OCD, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I like things that match up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, divide by two.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand that seven.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, five speeds.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't match up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because five is perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: It works.
[SPEAKER_00]: Seven just does.
[SPEAKER_00]: It works.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a lot more people like me where the seven speed is just stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes no sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just makes drugs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just makes it a drudgery to shift.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, why didn't we Brian manual broke up?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's any hacker first.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's always a butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's a business.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always a butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a business.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's.
[SPEAKER_00]: We had to check restaurant, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nobody in the Czech Republic for the most part, each salad.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet we still had to have a salad on the menu.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of a business case, because there were people who were our customers who came in and were on a diet or a lot of salads or whatever case was, so we had to have a salad.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean that it's not something that a personal, a personal reason, it's something that is a business reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can separate the two.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that if you look at the business reason behind it, every enthusiast loves wagons, every enthusiast loves v-hates, and every enthusiast loves manual transmissions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Cadillac came out with the Cadillac CTSV wagon, which was a V-hate manual transmission wagon, and five hundred people bought it.
[SPEAKER_01]: right this is the reality situation is car enthusiasts love to complain and then when it's time to actually pony up there's always a reason why they don't buy it oh it's got a seven speed I don't want a seven speed oh it's too expensive I'd like to can't afford that right there's always a reason and then you end up with no manual transmission okay well on that note we've gone longer than an hour time
[SPEAKER_00]: We stood at Bickering Away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I apologize.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that you found at least someone entertaining if not annoying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And where should they go if they want more TFL?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all TFL.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a place to go for more content.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as always, it's been Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Roman saying we'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ciao.