[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, fairdown bear spends its time for another edition of the Chicago Bears podcast Bears banter powered by Second City Grand Iron Bill Zimmerman with you and we are on the CUS!
[SPEAKER_00]: of real bears football training camp is right around the quarter.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we are going to do our tradition here on Bears Banner, our yearly training camp preview, our mega two-parter.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to do it this year with Zach Pearson, of course, the beat rider, Chicago Bears beat reporter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I should say four bear report and Zach joins me now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Zach builds Zimmerman, how you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see, as we're recording this, what we are literally two weeks away from report date.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, excitement's getting there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And before we know it, man, it'll be, you know, dissecting everything going on in train camps.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think training camps going to be interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get into some of the specifics of what I think the bears, median generals going to be looking at specifically with some certain position battles and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But before we get into the offense, I want to kind of just get your general thoughts kind of on the team coming into this year that changes in the coaching staff, of course, Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen and all there and kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: Comparin contrast, if you are, and this isn't for me trying to pile on mad eberfluous, but this is, you know, the players themselves when eberfluous got fired, talked about wanting accountability and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Comparin contrast, how this, these OTAs and the offseason program has felt to you this year as opposed to the eberfluous era, and if you could notice anything significantly different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you know, to answer your first question, I think there's excitement.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there was excitement last year, year before, for different reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this year you're coming off, you know, a off season, which, you know, let's be real last year was very turbulent for the bears, you know, firing an offensive coordinator a month and a half in the season, firing ahead coach.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much your past game coordinator became your head coach and, you know, had to coach the number one overall pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they went out and got the best candidate available, you know, arguably the best candidate overall, depending on, you know, your thoughts on Mike Freable, but they finally, you know, did something last year that they've never done with.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, firing a coach in season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now going out and getting the top guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's excitement around that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they have built around killable Williams.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've invested in killable Williams.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw that in free agency and the draft.
[SPEAKER_01]: The biggest thing last year for me was the Bears had a fixed offensive line.
[SPEAKER_01]: They went into this off season with that plan executed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there should be excitement.
[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of, you know, what's different, what I've seen that's kind of, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: What Maddie Refuse didn't do I'd say is I think the coaching is more.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to figure out the first more hands on in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that kind of makes sense where it's not just Ben Johnson, like it's everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Antoine Randallel.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Al Harris.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Eric Biennamy.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're coaching up these guys like they're getting ready for, you know, the Super Bowl and, you know, in what six, seven months here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and they're not only coach, it's not only like getting on DJ Moore, Roman Dunesay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's getting on guys that no offense to them, but we're probably not gonna hear their names after, you know, training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys that are gonna be cut from the rosters, you know, practice squad players,
[SPEAKER_01]: They're making sure everyone is getting it right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very vocal out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys have seen the clips of Eric the enemy getting on, you know, common on guy and other players.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, that's real.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's been all through rookie mini camp, OTAs, regular mini camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure it's been going on every practice because we're not allowed to go to every single one, but I'm sure it's going on every single practice at the rat.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I just think, you know, the the leadership of the coaches kind of stands out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not to say, like, I don't like he said, I don't want to pile him out.
[SPEAKER_01]: He refills wasn't like he uses out there like, oh, we're doing this and that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was coaching, but it just kind of feels different in the way that like there's a certain emphasis on getting everything right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also got a long-winded answer, but I'll point to this last year in training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you probably remember this as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: We asked Maddie for some numerous times about, you know, are the details and the procedures and the operation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he would just say, yeah, everything's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're, you know, we're looking good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you get out to like week one and we two and it's fall start and it's holding and they can't get out of the huddle and, you know, it's delay a game.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think Ben Johnson's really making an emphasis that
[SPEAKER_01]: all these details have to be right when they get to week one against Minnesota otherwise they're just not going to find success earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's a great point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, like I had her power on right after OTAs and many camp wrapped up and he was saying the same thing about this attention, the detail and making sure everything's getting right from the actual plays on the field to even like break in the huddle properly and that it's far more detail oriented.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that you said that I love is the idea that everybody's getting coached up the same, whether you're seventh round pick, Kyle Mnungai, or, you know, your, your cool command was getting paid twelve million dollars a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: That idea that nobody is above coaching, nobody is above, you know, if you didn't get it right, you know, getting on somebody and getting back and doing it the right way and making sure that every one of those ninety players, which is obviously that I'm right now, is being held accountable and making sure everybody understands their role on every play, what the concept is, what the goal is, and really,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, needs to buy in to what Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen's plan is or that's not going to be a fit here in Chicago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it's even, you know, players that are injured, too, you know, like coast and loveland has been out there, but he hasn't participated.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been on the sidelines and Ben Johnson talked about those mental reps.
[SPEAKER_01]: For action, Jones, you know, we haven't really seen him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I saw him one time on the sideline, but, you know, he's still rehabbing like that stuff goes to the meeting rooms, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just on the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make it sure everyone in the meeting rooms are learning the same things, whether you're healthy, whether you're injured, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I was impressed that like they are really putting the attention to detail, like an emphasis on that because
[SPEAKER_01]: you have to get that stuff right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we just like I mentioned, we saw last year, too many times, they just were not getting out of the huddle and time, you know, crucial holding calls, illegal formation, illegal procedure, whatever, you know, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And right away, I mean, we've seen Ben Johnson, you know, get on Caleb Williams.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a play where, I'm sure to got the ball out quicker to Rochon Johnson and couldn't do it in Ben Johnson, let them know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's, I mean, he's dropping F bombs out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: got on Colcomet.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not only making them get back, like, okay, you get to line of scrimmages.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not set up right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just, okay, let's restart this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, we're getting the entire play it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the entire play call is getting in.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're huddling up, like it's a real game, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Training camp reps are very important.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's obviously where things start to pick up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But these reps and OTAs and many camp, I think they're valuable more for the team and they are the media in terms of like they actually got to do this stuff again and get it going and these reps are going to have in the offseason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether we're just out there and just kind of just telling you guys what we see.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think that is very important to put that attention to detail and making sure everything's right because
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you've seen Ben Johnson's offense in Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things that kind of go on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys have to be in the right spots.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully, we don't have what we had last year in the year before where it just watch and training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just felt like things weren't clicking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they were just out of sorts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's honestly been the case for God.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been doing this since like, twenty seventeen, sixteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can point to several training camps where things just felt off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that was that was what was was crazy was when the media like yourself, it's it to be like, yeah, this training campus and going well, the amount of fans wouldn't get not angry at the bears, but get angry at the media for not just given given the raw rye answers, but let's talk about Ben Johnson for a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's interesting everything you brought up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we'll talk about Ben Johnson throughout this entire conversation about the offense and how he's going to utilize these players and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the one thing you talk about is Ben Johnson dropping F bombs and getting on guys and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's important because while Ben Johnson for the Bears fans, it was wildly a popular choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: You still, there was a small percentage and I do think small, maybe five, five, ten percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was, that wanted variable that wanted a different direction that was hesitant about this because of that phrase we always hear leader of men and that Ben Johnson was this math nerd who just needed to be in the room, coconut plays, being an offensive coordinator and didn't have that head coach mentality.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think bearers fans were kind of worried maybe this was going to be another Mark Tresman.
[SPEAKER_00]: great offensive mind, but not a good head coach.
[SPEAKER_00]: But from everything I've heard and what you're saying here, the Ben Johnson, this is not a a a a a math nerd who's just sitting in in the classroom on the whiteboard.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a guy who doesn't have a problem getting guys faces telling people what they need to know and telling them what they need to hear most importantly and and really seems like the kind of guy that has the personality if we're being honest, that can lead a lot for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I never, you know, I think bears fans have their, you know, had that thought because, you know, like you said, Mark Trustman and the Matt Nagy thing kind of failed after a year there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And rightfully so, like, there's just been so much trauma and nightmare of a coaching in this city that like, yeah, you know, you should, you know, be a little worried.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never bought the whole like he can't be a leader of men.
[SPEAKER_01]: He like, look who he's learned from.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, love him or hate him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dan Campbell has totally changed that culture and Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Detroit was a laughing stock.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, people still joke about, you know, him going forward and being aggressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he sticks to his plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's with Dan Campbell, you know, I don't think it's, oh, is he going to go for?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, yeah, he's, he's going for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of almost have to respect that in a way whether we agree with it or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think Ben Johnson was just able to learn from Dan Campbell, learn from a guy like Aaron Glenn, and kind of developed that trait.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he had other guys, other position coaches in Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had a roster that, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: hard-nosed, tough players next challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look as relationship with with these players in Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's mentioned James and William is just still text him, especially when they draft a Lutheran burden.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Ron St.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brown.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you just if you look at his podcast like when him and Caleb were joking back and forth about, you know, the bear stealing Ben Johnson, he was like visible the upset and disappointed if it was going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, I think that that type of stuff speaks to the guy that Ben Johnson is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just kind of think like all that leader of men stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just kind of overblown.
[SPEAKER_01]: So far, I've seen a guy who's come in.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's taking control.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's taking command.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's set an early standard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is what we have to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is how it's going to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, if you're not here, you know, like that same, no block, no rock.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not going to do your job, we'll move on without you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've just, I know it's that you get that one year of like that, that honey moon, everything's going good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm kind of curious to see if they do face some adversity this season, which they will, every team does.
[SPEAKER_01]: How the players handle it, how the players handle it next off season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So far, I just don't think that's going to be an issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of these guys really, really love him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can hear that when they speak about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, let's jump over here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk Caleb Williams.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think obviously that's the guy everyone wants to hear about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's not bury the lead any further here because I think look, if we're being honest about Caleb Williams rookie season, we just pull back and look specifically at what he did.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a lot of great moments.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a lot of great games.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there was a lot of inconsistency.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you look, and I think that's where it's a little tricky.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you look at the volume stats, as total yards, and the interceptions were weighed down, as touchdowns thrown.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you compare them to the other Bears quarterback seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the top five seasons Chicago Bears quarterbacking history.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, we look at his EPA per play and his yards per attempt.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of the more advanced
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, statistics that people like to look at for efficiency and they were really bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were some of the worst in the league, bottom five in the league in terms of what he did there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of it was just volume in terms of attempts.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I sit there and say that as one of Caleb Williams biggest cheerleaders, you know, going into the draft process and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: But on the other side, I will sit there and say that this man had three offensive coordinators during his rookie season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two head coaches is now obviously learning, now everyone loves what's in place here for Caleb now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that rookie season, I think, had to be a tremendous challenge for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: go and he had adversity at USC.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying he didn't, but going through that as a rookie season, your first year as a professional.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he overcame a lot and I think it was impressive.
[SPEAKER_00]: The amount of success he was able to have on basically what was became a dumpster fire of his season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious from your perspective as someone that was around Caleb Williams frequently.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think he had a pretty good poker face, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you think he handled adversity?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it got to him at all, you know, throughout that season, everything that that was a bit getting thrown in his face between the sacks, the coaching changes, play, let's be honest, players quitting on plays that it was a lot going on around him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so, I think a lot of it was behind the scenes, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he won the show that in front of us in the locker room in the locker room.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just a total chill dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just having conversations with everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get him at the podium.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not really supposed to talk to him in the locker room, but he'll talk in the side for a little bit or a brief conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like he was frustrated, but I also felt like he was professional about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he wasn't really going to throw anyone under the bus in season, turning that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, you know, after the season, a lot of that stuff came out with his father and how frustrated they were and the whole pre-draft thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So be it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But facing that adversity, I mean, like you said, man, like they gave away a game in Washington.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we can blame Tyrex and he said, yeah, he deserves blame too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still think the play before was just in how matters was handled in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like not only doubled down after like triple down like the next day about how those what eight to nine yards didn't matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at the Hail Mary Daniels left it, what a couple yards short.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, those those yards didn't matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think coaching really didn't do the bears or Caleb Williams any favors last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you could point to two or three games if they definitely cost them, at least a shot to go to overtime if not a win.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you watch that Minnesota game, you know, boy, I'm essentially will them back into that game forced over time.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did go three and out, but I mean, he did enough to get them, this was in a position to win.
[SPEAKER_01]: or have a shot at when winning.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think, you know, he was frustrated.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, I don't think he has any regrets going to the bears or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think like when you go through a season and all that you mentioned of the different offensive coordinators and the head coaches, he gets tiring.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also getting hit, what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Getting sack, sixty-eight, whatever it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many times he got sacked?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he does some blame for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think CJ Stroud, what he said was, like, you got to get down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you got to limit those hits because this isn't college where killed Williams is, you know, probably the best player on the field, more often than not.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an NFL game where linebackers are faster.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, defensive lineman are faster and they're looking to head hot and they're looking to hurt, not, I mean, not hurt you on purpose, but they're looking to put a big hit on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's kind of got to learn on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what you're talking, you know, what you said to all those advanced dance, not looking good, and, you know, quickly from wrong, or if you have a different opinion on this, but I felt like he just, he was just kind of playing it too safe because he felt like he had to, because he probably wasn't like their offensive system wasn't very good, and what was going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like the pressure was mounting, and, you know, he just,
[SPEAKER_01]: at times wasn't, you know, playing how he should have played.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd like to see him take more shots down the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously the accuracy has to improve down the field, but I'll just take more shots on the field and take the check downs when you need when they're there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, look, I don't disagree, and I do think whether it was, you know, offensive coordinators, but I think mostly it was Matt Eberfluous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this, this isn't a knock on Eberfluous.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a knock honestly on defensive-minded coaches.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of them have that mentality that they don't want to risk turnovers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't want to risk potentially giving up a big play on the wrong side of the ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they end up going a little conservative.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'll go back to what Matt Eberfluous did with Justin Fields.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to assume some of this carried over
[SPEAKER_00]: to Caleb Williams with that two, you know, that two zero zero.
[SPEAKER_00]: He told Justin that was the goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two touchdowns, zero turnover zero sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, that just beats the, you know, the,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the abilities, the special talents that a guy like Fields a guy like Clay K. Williams have.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not talking, you know, obviously Justin Fields had his shortcomings, but this is a guy that had a big arm that had explosive, you know, legs that could make big place.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're saying, no, I want you to sit in the pocket and not screw up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to figure that that carried over to Kayla Williams, some as well, that mentality.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look,
[SPEAKER_00]: Caleb's kept his turnovers way down last year, which was great for a rookie.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like you said, the sacks were way up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the one thing I think that Ben Johnson needs to figure out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he will, a way to harness Caleb Williams is making sure he knows when to try and be a gunslinging superstar.
[SPEAKER_00]: When is the right moment to just, all right, things are breaking down, just roll out, see what you can do, make your throws on the run, be special, be who you can be, be Patrick Mahomes kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, eighty percent of the time,
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's stay in the pocket.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's make sure you're making a quick read and getting the ball out quickly and the offense is going to march down the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and lived the play on her down too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, when the check-downs there take it, obviously, like you said, you don't want to take out that, excuse me, quote unquote Superman part of his game, because we've seen it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when he gets out of the pocket sometimes with play breaks down, he can make some of those throws.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also, you know, kind of bailed out a little, maybe a little too early at times.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I like to see them, you know, give us guys better chances to, you know, give Roman Dunes a chance, give DJ more chance.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'm kind of just kind of curious how much the coaching impact that I guess will find out pretty soon when the season starts, how much of an impact that Johnson will have.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I keep going back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it was in its introductory press conference.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're Ben Johnson, you know, sitting wants to build this from the ground up and work from the ground up with Caleb on everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm wondering, how much are going to change on that?
[SPEAKER_01]: How much he saw in film review of what Caleb needs to do in terms of mechanics?
[SPEAKER_01]: Also in terms of decision making, kind of the mental side of it, but yeah, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know we see Caleb he's got that ability like he's told us I mean he idolized Aaron Rogers he loved Aaron Rogers came and Aaron Rogers took chances but he was also very smart and he also was very gifted as a throw a lover hate him I mean the guy could throw the ball like almost no one else you know we've seen them make some crazy throws and I feel like that's in Caleb I mean we've seen it in practice in OTAs
[SPEAKER_01]: He zipped the ball in between defenders' arms.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, wow, how the heck did that ball get there?
[SPEAKER_01]: But then he's also made some throws across his body with middle of the field that's been picked off.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm more fine with that in these practices, because I want him to kind of test that, know his limits in this game, because he's still adjusting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he knows the NFL's a faster game.
[SPEAKER_01]: The athletes are just top notch.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's also like a calibration type thing in a way as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: where you can test some of these guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can know your limits on what you can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I just think the accuracy's got to be a little better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the decision making has got to be a little better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like when you can pick up those three to four yards and check downs at times, keep the chains moving, keep the drives going, that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this year, I honestly, I want to see how aggressive he can be down the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how aggressive Ben Johnson's going to let him be down the field with us offense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's a fascinating point and I think a lot of one that a lot of bear fans are going to be curious about as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So last thing on Caleb Williams and let me ask you this because when I do my off season series, the ten bears with the most approved, I had Caleb Williams number one, basically with the idea that there are no excuses.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got the offensive mind and coach, the offensive line is fixed.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have tremendous weapons on the
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, at receiver end a tight end.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to sit there and say they could have a better running back.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, there's there's way too much around him at this point now to sit there and be like, well, if he had this going for him, maybe it would have been a better season.
[SPEAKER_00]: So with all that being said, you know, he's gotten that rookie, the rookie jitters out of the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in year two.
[SPEAKER_00]: an offense that should really be able to make him shine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are you at this point after seeing a year of Caleb Williams?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is his ceiling and what is his floor at this point?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because to me, and when I say this, this isn't like saying he's the exact same player.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, his floor, like, and I've seen like PFF and so people are like, oh, he could still be a bust.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: His floor to me in terms of a career is kind of like Kyler Murray.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think through where he can throw a thirty seven thirty and hundred yards twenty to twenty five touchdowns.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the floor and I think that's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I still think his ceiling is that he could be a top five quarterback in the league that if things come together and him and Ben Johnson gel that he can be mentioned in the breath with Lamar and Burro and Allen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I honestly, I would agree with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna say someone like Kyler Murray, that PFMF, I don't know where the heck that thing came from.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that whole article is just, I mean, honestly, I thought Daniel's probably the only one they got right, maybe bone nicks, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, like, I would agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think like Flores probably Kyler Murray, ceiling is that top three, isch quarterback, top five isch quarterback.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,
[SPEAKER_01]: he gets a lot of crap nationally from like the national media for whatever reason and I think a lot of that's just talking points to pass the time in the off season and in guys that you know aren't around the building don't really do a lot of deep dive I'm essentially what happened last year like
[SPEAKER_01]: He went through three offensive corners, two head coaches.
[SPEAKER_01]: The game management by the coaching was just awful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot to overcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's still a pretty damn good rookie season.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not like he was out there through fifteen receptions and ten touchdowns and got two thousand passing yards.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a hit at really any end.
[SPEAKER_01]: He started all seventeen games like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the key to me is he was durable.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think this is a guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're looking ceiling MVP type player top five top three potentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and probably floor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, probably Kyler Murray, which, you know, to me, I think it's, I don't know if it's disappointing because he's a number one overall pick, but he'll always be compared to the James Daniels, if James Daniels, you know, sending.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of the tough thing, too, is you're gonna get that comparison where, you know, Daniels could be both could be top five.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we don't, you know, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'd probably agree with what you said, honestly.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is a trading camp preview.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll talk about some of the depth here as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So before we move off the position, a little bit about QB-to with Tyson, Bayesian, and KSKNM, how much of a competition do you think this is?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I love the KSKNM signing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to be great for Caleb Williams kind of being basically an assistant quarterback coach in that room.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's going to be tremendously helpful for Caleb.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I kind of went back and watched a little KSKNM over the last three or four years on the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not good that guy that through twenty some touchdowns for the Vikings and whatever that was twenty seventeen or that guy's long gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when I sit here and and you know, obviously Bayesian has his limitations as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there much of a competition here?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think both of these guys are going to be on the roster, but how do you think emerges as the second quarterback on the team?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a competition going into camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we'll probably see Tyson Bayesian, probably separate himself pretty early.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's probably the favorite to be the number two quarterback.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they were splitting reps in OTAs and mini camp with, you know, with the second team each taking a day and alternating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think it's Bayesian.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like you said, I was looking at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also looked back at like ace Keynam tape and, you know, he had the injury last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was, so didn't play.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's not the same guy that was, you know, fired up all over the field in twenty seventeen for the Vikings.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got his limitations, but it's also a signing, like you said, more to help Caleb Williams, more to have that veteran presence in that quarterback room, who they have last year that quarterback room as a veteran presence.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just ripping for the first season for the preseason and he he went to Minnesota.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think that was an important signing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think like you said he's going to be on the roster.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll have him there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's more of a mental having that veteran presence ability in that locker room to that's really going to stand out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it's going to be Beijing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Beijing will be the be the starter and
[SPEAKER_01]: or not to start, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, QB-two, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, QB-two, don't clip that, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one will have that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, be quarterback too and win that competition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mark Carmen would be very excited that you think Tyson is going to be one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's move on to the offensive line here, because obviously that was something a lot of bear's fans were concerned about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love the approach in the offseason.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a guy who criticizes Ryan Polz, a fair amount.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, and whether it was Polz Ben Johnson, both of them together, doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact
[SPEAKER_00]: because I kept sitting there going, I don't know how they're going to fix this interior.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just not, you know, will fries, he's coming off an engine, like I couldn't figure out how they were going to fix this off ends of line with the free agency that was available because they needed to really overhaul everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they went out and they did it via trades with Jonah Jackson and Joe Toney.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I am not as big of a Drew Dalman fan as a lot of other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I sit there and say, this is a solid center.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the guy who knows what he's doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the best center.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bears have had at least since those couple years with Cody White Harry's probably better than what Cody White here was at his peak as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're talking about the best player.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bears have had maybe since all in crudes at that position, which is a great compliment to Dalman.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I sit here and look at this offensive line, to me, the best thing that this is going to be able to do, assuming they play well, is produce confidence for Caleb Williams because every quarterback form recorder back I talked to, it is like, if you don't trust your protection,
[SPEAKER_00]: your your passing game is just screwed like it it just it doesn't matter and I feel like Caleb tried to trust his protection early in the season even if it wasn't great like he he sat in the pocket and he got drill and stuff and I feel that second half of the season
[SPEAKER_00]: you could just tell like the the feet got a little happier like he was bailing out a little early.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he just he just knew he was going to get sat he just like dropping back he felt he was getting sat before his eyes were even looking down field at all his options.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel that was a tremendous negative to this team, not just the sex, but the the lack of confidence that he was going to be able to say upright each play.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're talking, well, obviously get into this left tackle position.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're talking about whoever wins this left tackle position, if even if it's Braxton Jones, that they're probably the worst of the starting five when that unit is healthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a year ago, you could have made the argument, because with Darnell Wright still developing that Braxton Jones was the best of the starting five.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a tremendous change from one season of the next.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you said it, man, how many times have we had a criticize Ryan Polls and ask, like, what are you going to fix the offensive line?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's going on here?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think your point of Caleb not trust the offensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where the mental stuff starts to get in.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, quarterbacking is mental physical.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're not going to trust your offensive line if guys are coming untouched through the middle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, guys are coming off the edge and in
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not all Kira and I'm a Gadji's folly missed time and they had to throw them into the fire and guys are going right around them and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I liked what they did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably a little higher under dumb and then you are, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can see the criticisms of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see it both ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he is probably their best center they've had in a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's at least right now
[SPEAKER_01]: It's at least an attempt in a solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, you probably want to get another center eventually, a young guy, but you know, you look at the guys in the draft.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just weren't in position to take them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to take that center.
[SPEAKER_01]: Number nine, number ten, like, you know, the past couple years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I like Jackson Power Johnson goes before you have a pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in things like that, and on day two, I believe it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think they tried to address it at least.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would agree that you look at that offensive line and Darnell Wright is you need them to be that anchor at Wright Tackle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He needs to take on our step up in his game, I believe, that you have the inside going out and
[SPEAKER_01]: trading for Joe Tuney, trading for Jonah Jackson before free agency was important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you look at the guards out there and who did you really feel comfortable in as a free agent?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, well, fries was hurt.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe he's still got paid, but are you comfortable with him or are you comfortable with someone like Joe Tuney or Jonah Jackson?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably taking what the bear's did.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to look at how Ryan posed by your value at his trap.
[SPEAKER_01]: He probably knew Will Campbell was not going to be available.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably started to get the idea that Calvin Banks was not going to be available when the Rams, who was not Rams' act, and there are enough Rams' seats.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rams' act and there are other as a penning that kind of moved on at tackle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's almost playing like the long game and seeing what you have available to you and making the best decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I like it, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I look at that offensive line and
[SPEAKER_01]: last year it's just too much pressure up the middle and just too many times like you couldn't rely on a guy like Kevin Jenkins to stay healthy and and you get so many questions at center and you know at times right guard and the latest thing didn't work out and it's just you had to do something and I think Ryan polls probably made some smart moves here with us off on the line but you know I don't know do you want to talk left tackle because I feel like that's obviously
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's get in the left tackle here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And last thing I'll kind of say on the overall offensive line, the one thing that I don't hear a lot of people talk about that I love is, and we'll just go with the argument for right for this statement that Ozzie Trepello wins the left tackle job, which I don't know if it's going to happen, but what we'll get in that in a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Darnell Wright, as of right now, has three years guaranteed to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're three year, four, fifth year option.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jackson, Dalman, and Tunie now with extensions are all guaranteed to be here three years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Asitra Pillow's guaranteed to be here four years, even Kronamagaji, if he figures it up, I'd guarantee to be here three years.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bears now have a core offensive line.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it probably not all these moves work out, but if they do, all these guys are here.
[SPEAKER_00]: for three years.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's continuity on an offense, but I can't remember exact the last time the bears had the potential to have that level continuity, probably probably the early Ryan pace years with the massive long, you know, white hair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was trying to think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mealy, my mind went to, I was at two thousand ten line pretty, so I can't remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Super Bowl line was really pretty damn good, I'd say, but like, yeah, I mean, kind of long, massive, although, yeah, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: Charles Leno when he was healthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leno is part of the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had basically they had four guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: That group had four guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: They never cut you know, James Daniels and there was a bunch of guys getting into that left left guard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other than that, they had four guys pretty consistently there for a couple three years.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they extended them, you know, they extended tuning.
[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, they extended, they have Jackson, the sign dominant deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, even if, like you said, if even a Brexit wins a job this year, you know, you still have Ossetra Pillow right there left tackle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's a big of a question mark, you know, if Brexit leaves, after an assure, it's not, oh man, they have to, you know, obviously if there's a left tackle, you go out and trade for it's all pro or or proble type, which, you know, if you're, if that's someone like that's available, there's obviously a reason why, because the guys like that just, you know, don't become available, but
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to go out and make that big splash.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, the continuity on the offensive line is going to be very important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if the hit on, if Jackson doesn't work out, you hit on Tunian and Dalman, that's still successful in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would even argue if Tunian struggles, even just a little bit, and Jackson has to work out, and Dalman turns in a proble year, I still think that's a win.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Senator's been the position they've really needed to lock down for years and just haven't been able to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about left tackle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is the, this is probably the training camp battle that is going to be the most interesting because it's impactful and look, I think there's a lot of question marks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when is Braxton Jones going to be able to get on the field?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think every, you know, when the injury happened way back in December and kind of to hear talk about the end, oh, he'll be ready for training camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: But miss OTAs will be ready for training camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're here and limited to start training camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is this, do you have any idea how long this is going to linger for Braxon Jones?
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, if he's not on the field, that's going to give Trepello and potentially Amagaji a huge boost in the left tackle battle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I saw Braxton once or twice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I mentioned that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously not doing any work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I try to look at this when in training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're injured, I try to spot you right away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you on the bike?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you on the sideline?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you out there for stretching and going back and getting treatment?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're on the bike, it's probably a decent sign.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, you know, I've seen guys on the bike for weeks and they've never really come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of tough to judge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think with Braxton, man, it's going to be interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Will he be ready day one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, I can't confidently say he'll be out there full-go day one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's going to be a thing where he could miss the first couple practices, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he's his way back in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if that's the case, you know, he misses, or he doesn't really get those first team reps for the first week or two, like he said, there's Aussie Trapillo.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's Kiran Amagaji trying to get those reps.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still think right now it's between Braxon and Azita Pillow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Karen is probably the third guy in that and that rotation has a lot of ground to make up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Azie has been pretty good this off season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, excuse me, but now you have to go in training campus where the live stuff happens is where the reps really matter and count.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, it's kind of hard to make a prediction on who's going to win that job.
[SPEAKER_01]: I try still lean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, Braxton, if he's healthy, but like if I was he wins, I'm not going to be surprised at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's been pretty good at this camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: This all season so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the biggest question is going to be is Braxton going to be out there right away.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll get that answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's probably the first or second question asked to Ryan Polls and Ben Johnson.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, the funny thing is, and I kind of want to bring this up is
[SPEAKER_01]: We've heard, you know, the left tackle with Darnell Wright and nothing's really come of it and it's just kind of funny to me that we've heard, I think Ryan polls is actually the first one to bring it up and Ben Johnson talked about as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: They keep bringing it up and then like we don't see Darnell Wright out there, left tackle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think we could kind of put that to bed a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be shocked if we got out there and they lined up Darnell Wright at left tackle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I take one and through us, you know, through us for a loop, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm curious to see how this left, like you said, it's, it's going to be the position battle to watch out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully, Braxton's healthy, because if both are healthy, I think that's a sign or it's a good thing, because if Aussie wins, you kind of know you have Braxton Jones, if Aussie struggles or Aussie gets hurt, you have
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of security blanket in a way that left tackle, which they didn't have last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other way around, if we're actually a third again, or he struggles, you have Aussie to come in and then behind him, you know, you have Kieran as a potential swing tackle or your third left tackle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that'll be definitely the talking point out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let me just, let's do one quick one on Amagaji, then kind of get more into the left tackle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I, you know, have, you know, in terms of training camp battles, you know, I talked about the left tackle position.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of think it's kind of like there's two battles going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's Max and Johnson Trepello for starting position.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's Trepello against Amagaji for the backup position if Trepello doesn't win that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't feel like Amagaji's going to take the step up now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's OTAs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's shorts.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no pads.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But heard some people saying that Amagaji didn't even look good in the spring.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that something you can confirm?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is that something that was kind of overblown?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would confirm that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, like you said, it is shorts.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can hand, you can use your hands a block, but I mean, these guys aren't.
[SPEAKER_01]: go in full, you know, let's line up and let's hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I try to evaluate the offense line in mini camp in OTAs and even the first couple days of training camp because there's no pads,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking, is a guy just going right around my left tackle, right tackle, and who is that guy going around him?
[SPEAKER_01]: If Montez sweats going around, don't know, right pretty easy, I'm not as worried.
[SPEAKER_01]: If Austin Booker's going around, don't know, right, I'm like, okay, that's something I got, I kind of know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say, I wish I didn't bring my notebook down here, but there were a couple of times where I noted, like, here on, did a lot of a couple of guys go by him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, how I evaluate, it's probably different than how the offensive line coach was evaluate, how Ben Johnson evaluated.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'll say this, I don't think there was anything in my eyes that shows confidence that Kiran's going to win the starting job, or even be that second.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think like you said, he's battling, probably for that second job.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that change, yeah, I mean, last year you look at Kieran and you know this, when you're rookie in the NFL, you're behind, you know, some guys progress fast in the others, chain and Daniels, you know, you know, leak neighbors, guys like that, even Caleb Williams at times, progress faster.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you miss training camp,
[SPEAKER_01]: You're in trouble as a rookie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're just way behind the ball.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think last year helped them a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a full year that training camp will help.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also wouldn't give up on them right away either.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you should cut them or throw them out or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I don't want the kid develop.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a project who's probably going to be a project from a start.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he just kind of got thrown the fire after being behind.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'd probably confirm that he didn't look spectacular or a great out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's unfortunate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, I haven't given up on Amagaji.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you said, everyone who falls football, understood that this was a project.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's an Ivy League or coming off an injury, the tape, you know, tools the guy with all the right attributes, but even the tape in the Ivy League wasn't exactly a dominant force.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like it was it was going to take some time.
[SPEAKER_00]: He shouldn't have been on the field at all last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: This should have been the first time he was kind of getting his toes in the water.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so we'll see where this goes now.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you ask me at this point, I would say more, you know, which side of the fence on my end more likely he's not going to work out than he does workout, but, you know, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do hold on to Braxton Jones and and Ozzie Trepello, however that that shakes out where the loser of that position is the swing tackle and I'm a god geez, you're you're fourth tackle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that does, you know, that leaves you a nice safe spot for him to try and develop this season and then in your three, you'll have an idea if this guy's going to turn into something or or not, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you're right on the left back, I'll position.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if Trapillo's gonna have to take this from Bradford Jones, Bradford Jones, Johnson Jones can't lose it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trapillo's gonna have to win it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the only way that happens if Jones just can't get on the field, then I suppose in that case he's gonna lose it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if both of them are on the field,
[SPEAKER_00]: it is it is fascinating to me and and then it's you sit there and go well what is the thought in terms of long term like if it's close right with racks of Jones and Trepello and training camp do they want to go with the veteran guy out of the gate because there they can know that he's he's been through the the ringer and understands what's going to happen after three years in the league
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you go with the rookie and sit there and say, well, Braxton Jones isn't going to be on this team in twenty twenty six.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's give Trepello the the wraps during the regular season and, you know, he's going to have the higher ceiling with the team at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be interesting to see how that exactly plays out.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a pretty interesting point and a good viewpoint of that too, because you also have a guy in Braxton there that wants to put out good tape because you know, test free agency and find a new team and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and you know, they're both.
[SPEAKER_01]: While Trapillos worked, you know, at the left tackle, the one explains those reps.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of got some familiarity with Kale Williams.
[SPEAKER_01]: Caleb had some games last year with Braxon Jones live reps.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he kind of understands and kind of knows what to kind of feel when Braxon's out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if it did come down to that, you know, and they're both
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, let's say quote unquote too close to call.
[SPEAKER_01]: You probably lean with the veteran, I'd say the guy was probably had the reps in the regular season with kill Williams.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean you can make, I mean they'd be pretty quick to make a switch if things go downhill with Braxton Jones and any struggles.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to hold back it and you know, they feel like Trepello's ready to come in and, you know, if Braxton's struggle, they're going to make that move and, you know, see what they got in that rookie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and last one on the offensive line, let me ask you about the backups around the interior.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the bears are going to have a good swing, whether it's Braxon or Truppillo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we talked about how improved the starting line is they can't do everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this isn't a complaint to Johnson and Poles here.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the backup interior group is pretty dreadful to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of cross your fingers that all these guys stay healthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I loved Ricky Stromberg coming out of the draft for that injury.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had in Washington.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what kind of play area is anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a big believer in Doug Kramer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like Bill Murray a lot, but you know, is he going to be able to be a guy that you can rely on Ryan Bates doesn't seem to be able to get on the field at this point anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems to be a lot of questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you could pretty much Jordan McFadden's in the mix there too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can pretty much tell me, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're going to have probably two backup interior guys, assuming Amagaji and the other guy is the swing tackle and they keep nine offensive linemen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you could tell me it's going to be Ryan Bates, a Jordan McFad.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could tell me it's going to be Bill Murray and Doug Kremlin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really have no idea how this interior backup is going to shake out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I know they got the rookie, the six wrong guy from Michigan State Newman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how it's going to shake out, but whoever does win it, I'm just not going to have a lot of confidence in them if they have to play.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you're seeing some of these guys play, there's something went wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to see if they're an entry or something just went through the wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we're out there and we look at the offensive line combinations, you pretty much get your starter set.
[SPEAKER_01]: You make a note of, you know, I'm a godji or azir are
[SPEAKER_01]: who's in there with the first team.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other than that though, you kind of look at the second team.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this year, I mean, I had just so many different numbers in the second, third teams, like inner changing on the drives.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, there's just really no, the only one that honestly was pretty much you could just write in, essentially, I'm in Terrier was Doug Cramer as the backup center at times.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, does Luke Newman and to me kind of feels like a guy that might try to stash on the practice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, you know, Bill Murray's probably is going to be ahead of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, you have guys like Jordan McFadden who has experience in this league.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think honestly, the only one in like, I don't feel, I'm not, you know, if Doug Kramer's playing center, the bears are probably, you know, it's a downgrade from Drew Domin and it's probably going to be in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's probably the only guy you can kind of feel
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe decent about on that second line in the interior, like other than that, man, it's going to be interesting to see how this kind of plays out in training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is going to go on for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think they're going to need the full preseason to see who's going to be their backups.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a good situation, but it's better situation than what they had.
[SPEAKER_01]: The last year there's questions on the offensive lines starters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you got questions back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather take that than the starters, but yeah, man, if Jonah Jackson goes down or
[SPEAKER_01]: Drew Dahlman goes down Joe Tuney.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're probably in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you look at something like Ryan Bates had just haven't seen him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't, I don't know if maybe shows up for training camp and he's out there, but yeah, haven't seen him.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some of these guys like like, you know, Chris Blazers, Blazers out there, like Fatten, you know, Bill Murray, Luke Newman, Stromberg.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one to me, I'll just say no one to me in my notebook.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been like, wow, okay, there he goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's a guy to keep an eye on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it's it's going to be interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think people are going to be focused on that one as much, but a nerd like myself, I absolutely know it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a same way, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, every time in line up, I have to double check, I'm like, okay, who's here, who's there?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I try to watch because I think with this pair's defense, I mean, I think we're going to see some of these guys, like, you're going to see give on Dr. Puy, get a couple of seconds training reps.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just kind of natural just to get them some reps because they have so many guys in this line that kind of make an impact.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do they how do they go up against, you know, these guys, how do they go up against an Andrew Billings and and a a gritty chair when they do get those reps even Austin book or two.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that'll be kind of interesting to watch training camp as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get to some of these skill position guys before we wrap up the offensive conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start the running back room.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of bears fans.
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of want to talk about the Andre Swift and if he can handle it and look, I think the big thing here is what kind of relationship to Swift and Ben Johnson have.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still look at the Detroit line situation where Swift was RB one and then Ben Johnson took over his offensive coordinator and he got demoted to RB two for Jamal Williams.
[SPEAKER_00]: for David Montgomery, not for Jamir Gibbs, for Jamal Williams, who had a tremendous season in Detroit, and then went to New Orleans, and went back to being as usual, like, five hundred yards a season type guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder if Ben Johnson is comfortable with DeAndre Swift as his RB one.
[SPEAKER_00]: He may just sit here and be like, well, we couldn't fix everything in one year.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be DeAndre Swift this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give me this kind of your assessment on the running back room overall.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think Swift can be Johnson's top back, monongy versus Rochon behind him, you know, Ian Wheeler, if you think there's anything there and I'll even throw out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think there's a chance, you know, a guy like Kenneth Walker or someone like that, you know, potentially they could trade a conditional sixth and and beef up the room.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you believe everything at Ben Johnson and Andrew Swift say in the public, yeah, they both love each other and down there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to be running back one and see everything's good right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tend to believe they'll go into the year it's going to be deandry swift as probably they're starting running back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was always when those rumors were out of, you know, trading for a guy or signing guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always point into the Seattle situation where they have Charbonet and Kenneth Walker.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always thought like, you probably agree with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always thought they were kind of like the two backs that made more sense that would fit better in my eye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows, maybe the bears pull off a trade for someone like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Jamal Williams is still out there as a free agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know Albert Breer did Albert Breer connected them like it was like back in June right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of starting to go viral again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't I don't think they're going to bring in or running back right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're going to want to training camp what they have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it might be a little spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they really like Rochon for some reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I really think they can be, he could be like, they're back up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Monungai, I think we'll get some reps.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he'll play.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're going to sit him right away and have him learn.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they'll throw him in the fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing we got to watch those past blocking.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very important in this offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, watching a Monungai's tape and rockers, you kind of see those flashes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got, you know, a smaller guy, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like built like a like a wrecking ball in a way, which is it was just good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, he's not afraid from contact.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think with Swift as man, like he didn't have an awful season last year, but also like he looked back at those first what five weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: His like yards per carry were like one point three or something like that, like or a low twos maybe had a couple of games returned it on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,
[SPEAKER_01]: But then kind of fell flat, I think towards the end of the year, he's got to be consistent.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got to have that consistency all throughout the year for this offense to find success in my eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm curious, you know, how much the reps are split with Rochon and Eminungai.
[SPEAKER_01]: But so far, I've been primarily Rochon would be the second back.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I were to, you know, go off what I saw, I would say, probably it's Rochon right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right, and that makes sense to me and look, I think you're and I'm not a big deandry swift guy that before he was a bear so that that's not you know a hindsight kind of thing, but I will say this like you have to be fair like you said it was awful the first few weeks it wasn't really his fault he had nowhere to run you know the Indianapolis court plan course that
[SPEAKER_00]: the, it was he was set up to fail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we'll see with a better scheme, better offensive line.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can have a more productive time.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dating time was not scoring on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was doing before they snapped the ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you just looked at the defense of alignment, it was insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think the Rochon thing is interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of bears fans are excited for Monong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious to see what he, you know, seventh round pick.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: could have been maybe a fifth round pick if the running back class wasn't as deep as it was this year and a lot of other seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: But look, I was a huge proponent of drafting Rochon when they did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he had RB one potential.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he does anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: useful and not just because he's a solid special teams guy, you know, he can block, he can catch a little out of the back field, you know, he's he's kind of that guy that I feel like Ben Johnson would embrace that type of personality that he has.
[SPEAKER_00]: And despite the woeful stats he put up last year, the one thing that was really high for him was success rate running football.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, you know, I understand he didn't have enough runs to carry us to qualify, but his success rate put him like fourth or fifth in the NFL against qualifying backs.
[SPEAKER_00]: If he had a higher volume, but he didn't because he was just short yardage, average one, two and a half yards of carry.
[SPEAKER_00]: The stats look awful, but an essence.
[SPEAKER_00]: Johnson did what he was supposed to do on every play.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was only supposed to pick up two or three yards because he was going out there on third and two or third and one and he was getting those first down more often than not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think if Johnson is potentially used better, I do think there's a role where we could see him back around four and a half yards of carry and maybe get in six, seven hundred yards.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and look, it's not going to be what Detroit has in David Montgomery and Jamir.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's, it's not going to be anywhere close.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bears missed that opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not their fault.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Patriots took the guy that they really liked, trivian, you know, Henderson out of Ohio State.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the plan was let's get another back in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's draft a back that we could pair with the under swift.
[SPEAKER_01]: And look at that draft when the bears made those trades.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at the picks three to four picks in front of them, it was a running back.
[SPEAKER_01]: The kid from Oregon went when they made another trade.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think on day three, it was another example to I got to go back and look.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think they wanted to pair someone with the Andre Swift.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're right with Rochon, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I like, he gets those tough yards.
[SPEAKER_01]: He falls forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a tough runner, but he's also got to stay healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you have the concussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, those take a toll on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he's got to stay healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: With Swiss future, man, you look at the money they could get and then save.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's really, we joked about mock drafts earlier, and that's put like,
[SPEAKER_00]: every mock draft is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was going to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's kind of, that's going to be the trendy pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure, you know, there'll be a running back that that comes out of nowhere again this year and takes off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably not to the Ash and Gentile level.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw last year, but someone worth the bears are picking, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, maybe twenties.
[SPEAKER_01]: because you feel like Jeremiah loves probably gonna be top ten right around that area.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bears could take.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just have to, they had to find a solution for that for the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the game now, you can take running backs in the draft and kind of just cycle them out every couple year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it happened in DeAndre's Weft, too, in Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: When they took him and they came back, you know, signed Montgomery eventually, they, you know, they traded Swift, they drafted Jamira Gibbs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, they got to find that long-term solution still.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's wrap up the offensive conversation with the past catchers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start more with the tight ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's really interesting with Lovelin, of course, being the number one pick of the team a year after giving Cole Commette a contract extension.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, I know a lot of who are up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's that he's taken Commette's job.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they are different tight ends with different skill sets.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, I think there is a chance that when Cole Commette's got three years left on his deal,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a chance Cole commit his here for all three years of that deal, where then at the end of that, that's the year that you would get Cole's in love on an extension if he turns into the guy that you're hoping he becomes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a really good chance that Ben Johnson lives in twelve personnel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hate to bring this up just because one of the names I bring up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, this has the potential to be the kind of twelve personnel that the Patriots have with Rob Brunkowski and Aaron Hernandez, where
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be potentially the most lethal, twelve in the league.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know people all Ben Johnson used twelve into Troy, but didn't have a pass catcher as his other tie-in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, he does.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just because he didn't have one into Detroit, doesn't mean he's not going to be able to utilize it here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We keep talking about how Ben Johnson builds his offense around the guys he has.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the bears have some real potential here at twelve personnel to really create some mismatches.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if Cole Comet has just been replaced rather than been complimented.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't get that feeling at all either.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it's like probably the easy thing to kind of connect the dots in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I just wrapped it tight and they're going to trade one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look behind them though.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the depth behind them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not where are you going to trust you know guys, you know, behind them that that can, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: come in and fill that role, like Durham, Smife, Joel Wilson.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Stephen Carlson, like, you're, I really go in the year with co-comment and co-sum lovelin as my two.
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, into the future, let's see how those work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to me, co-comment does not seem like a type of guy that
[SPEAKER_01]: If his role, which likely will take a little bit of a step back, of course, in love on his health, he like the targets would probably be down a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just natural.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't seem like the guy that's gonna come out, yeah, I wanna be traded.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanna out of here, anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get that vibe from him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they, like you said, they could have a pretty lethal duo at Titan and at twelve personnel.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna wanna run that twelve personnel a lot, look at what Ben Johnson did to try it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you've got a more
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say natural past catcher, runner, and look, they could put Colson Lovelin in different spots.
[SPEAKER_01]: They might line up up the slots sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: The pick kind of shocked me just because admittedly, I didn't really do a lot of homework in Colson Lovelin.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a Tyler Warren on a Penn State, was the other guy that connected the dots.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then after a draft, I went back and looked.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got that natural pass catcher, almost like that wide receiver type body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at the Sam Laporta look.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I don't want to say, you know, Brock Bowers, but like when Brock Bowers is coming out last year, you could view him as a wide receiver.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's just a pass catcher, a hell of a player in Georgia.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of got that vibe not to the Brock Bowers extent where he can come out and just have incredible rookie ear.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I just, it makes sense now why they took him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's the plan, like you said, the plan is going to be twelve personnel.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get both guys involved.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, let's not forget, love one hasn't been out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You should be ready for training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, coconuts getting those reps and coconuts of veteran as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to be fun to see what they do with this offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you throw in Luther Bird and Roman Dunes and DJ Moore and Sikias and guys like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have some options out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, there's a lot of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a couple of other things on the tight ends before we kind of dive into the receivers and wrap up this part of the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: The coal command thing and the critics saying, and look, I've criticized command plenty.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sitting there saying, I just applaud the guy everything he does.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one thing you hear that's the negative on coal command is, well, what is he great at?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not great at anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I tend to agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a fair criticism.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my counter to that is, what is he bad at?
[SPEAKER_00]: because to me, this is a guy who, yeah, he's not really great at anything, but he's a solid pass catcher.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a solid red zone threat.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a solid run blocker.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a solid pass blocker.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not great at these things, but he's not bad at any of them either.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you find me other than George Kittle, and I'm not putting him in Kittle's category because Kittle's great at blocking and great as a pass catcher, and those guys are unicorns.
[SPEAKER_00]: but who is a wide tight end in the league that is pretty good at just about everything like Cometas where he is just a useful player.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the one thing I don't think Comet gets enough credit for is being pretty good in a lot of different areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, tight end positions so weird now too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have this very top heavy and then you have like a bunch of guys are just kind of there in that range.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: What is co-compet, like really bad at?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Chris had the block and sure, a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like he's awful.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's whiffing every time he's blocking or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's also good security blankets, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's good for one of those, a couple of those games a year where he's going to be a red zone target.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to get you a touchdown or two, cup, you know, seventy yards, five, six receptions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now with, you know, coals and love them.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's up their weapons.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to get the attention of the defense and maybe coconut slips out and you find them as you're checked down or you can kind of stink them over the middle of the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I would agree with that assessment.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think coconut is bad at anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's greater than elite tight end.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's good enough for what you want to do with this offense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I completely agree with that assessment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's wrap up here with the receivers, because like you said, we've got a lot of options here for this offense in terms of what Ben Johnson could potentially utilize.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with the idea that they can do twelve with these guys and, you know, to the traditional three receiver sets with potentially Luther Burden.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even if Burden doesn't, you know, vibe with the offense right away as a rookie, Zacchaeus, I think is a very underrated signing where
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the plan when they signed him was like, this is our third wide receiver and we're going to be very happy with him as our third wide receiver.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can block, he can, you know, work, operate in space.
[SPEAKER_00]: He do a lot of things run the line of scrimmage.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a useful player and then burdens sit in there with that pick and they're like, oh, we're going to do this as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think Duverne is going to be more the returner and special teams guy probably not a big role on offense.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think those top four guys are going to be interesting in terms of how they all see the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there going to be a guy that just ends up with six, seven snaps of game and doesn't really play?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, the bears may have a situation where they have too many miles to feed, which is not something that has happened too often in the history of the Chicago Bears offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're usually over the years we're looking who's going to be the third guy and we're just throwing out random names.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, even second guy, if you want to go back to some of those bad like, twenty, seventeen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, remember the twenty, seventeen receive a word.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God, I remember who.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was one guy, late in the season, and he caught a pass against Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I literally had a lot of like, who the heck is this guy?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't think I've ever heard of this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, thankfully, they don't have that this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a good problem, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think they have a pretty good problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like Zacchaeus, to me, man, he was pretty good in OTAs and many cam getting open, Caleb finding him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, I think he could be a very underrated signing, a good guy that
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if Luther Burns, not right or take over that Widersuit three roll, you see the key has taken over, which could be the case to start the season or heck, you know, even as a fourth guy of Luther burn emerges, that's solid.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in terms of the top two guys,
[SPEAKER_01]: Deja Morris, we all know Deja Morris, Roma Dunze is probably the guy you want to take the next step and kind of have that chemistry, you know, with kid Williams build on it more.
[SPEAKER_01]: But after that, like, you know, Zacchaeus, you got Luther Burton, you know, Doverne and then you have Tyler Scott kind of battling for that roster spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very curious.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what happens with Tyler Scott because
[SPEAKER_01]: Last year, I mean, I don't think it was a great camp, but it wasn't like he was bad at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, okay, maybe this guy can get a couple of ret, and they just did not put him on the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Different coaching staff, which, you know, not doesn't always help your case.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think more often than not, it's probably a negative, but yeah, well, they got a couple of guys that could battle for that last spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: It always comes down to special teams.
[SPEAKER_01]: What can you offer?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a numbers game.
[SPEAKER_01]: What can you offer on special teams if you're battling for that fourth-wide receiver spot that fifth-wide receiver spot?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to cut a guy like Duvenet, you know, probably in favor of Tyler Scott.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Duvenet offers a lot more on special teams, but Scott wants to make this roster.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to show something on special teams as well, but it's a strong-wide receiver group.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's a group that we keep talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've invested
[SPEAKER_01]: in Caleb Williams on offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've given them targets.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've given them guys not only with lovelin, but you know, he signs a kiss.
[SPEAKER_01]: You draft Luther burden.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, you know, I hate when people like too many mouths to feed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just hope it's not that situation where, you know, you're, you're, you're in a spot where there are too many mouths to feed in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the bears Ben Johnson find a way to kind of handle that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: Got weapons here, more weapons here, I'd say than, well, into Troy in terms of receiver group.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, to Troy, you always had a Amaran St.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brown in Jason Williams.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but after that, it was just a couple of guys that were just solid role players that did their job.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you got a Luther burn, who could turn into a really damn good-wired receiver guy who, you know, many people thought should be a first-round pick, um, falling into this draft.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I think it's going to be fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me ask you about DJ more when we're talking about miles to feet, maybe the most important mouth to feet, because I, again, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Roman Dunes that you're going to, he's going to get plenty of, you know, a target share.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have to be the top receiver this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Will he make that step up and be on the verge of breaking out?
[SPEAKER_00]: But the DJ more, and you said it earlier, the no block, no rock situation, you know, do you think DJ is going to be a full buy-in here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that's the big question here is, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he was frustrated last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think D. J. Moore at this point would fully admit that he was frustrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think some bears fans went too far to try and defend some of the stuff he was doing on the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think D. J. Moore was that kind of, I'll just say, diva type personality, but I understand the entire team with the problem last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going to just single him out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do wonder if, you know, if he's going to really buy in about getting across the line of scrimmage, making the blocks the estimate, if he's only getting five or six targets again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Winning changes everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you win your happy, when you're losing, it takes a toll on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of these guys in mid-it publicly or not, I mean, he's been with the Panthers.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just struggle, the year after year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's time with the Bears.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've struggled, the year after year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think a lot of it was frustration.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not like excuse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you still have to go out there and do your get paid.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got the extension.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to go out there and do your job as well, especially for a young quarterback like Caleb Williams last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: That stuff just can't happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, talk about the Arizona game and maybe checking out a little bit early and some of the other games.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, he's already, what he said, he said he's already gotten a little bit of a talk into from, or Ben John started got on him once about things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think he'll be an issue early, but if they start losing man, like this stuff just gets too frustrating for players, but again,
[SPEAKER_01]: like professional, you have to kind of deal with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: DJ is a very calm reserve type of guy when he's in the media.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's a bad teammate or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a great guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he is a good teammate, but yeah, you gotta, you gotta have him mentally be there every game, because that's a guy that killed the one who was gonna look to if the game was on the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: When he saw the against Green Bay, they made that adjustment.
[SPEAKER_01]: They ran that round over the middle
[SPEAKER_01]: DJ raises hand through the ball in the morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think DJ will be fine this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do really do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love to hear that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So two quick ones on offense here to wrap up this part of the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, if assuming the bears do the traditional twenty five offense, twenty five defense and three special teams for their final fifty three man roster, I look at this offense and say there's one spot open.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to
[SPEAKER_00]: three quarterbacks, the four running backs, nine offensive line, three tight ends, and there's five receivers, I think that are gonna make the team.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that twenty bit spot, you can take Joel Wilson tight end, you can take Tyler Scott at wide receiver, or you can take Ian Wheeler as an extra running back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who would you keep, and who do you think the bear's keep?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's the same person out of those three.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, or even maybe Miles Boykin as a six receiver.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think grabs that twenty fifth spot on an offense?
[SPEAKER_01]: So of those three, I think Wheeler's probably the one you might be able to get away with bringing back if you cut them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably Joel Wilson too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Tyler Scott would be a probably land on a roster or gets probably claimed on waivers or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: To me personally, I would lean more tight end just because you got the three with, you know, comments by and the lovelin.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the death behind that's just not very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if one of them goes down, you're probably in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would probably keep some of my Joel Wilson, you know, you threw the miles boykin in there as a kind of that's kind of a curve ball one for me, but yeah, I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: Good special teams, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's why.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what it comes down to as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, it's a number of games.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to have that special team's value.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've seen guys over the years make the roster due to special teams.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would probably take someone like Joel Wilson.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that'd be my pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the bears from look at the bears angle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be, see, they really love you in Wheeler though, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they, they really love you in Wheeler.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the bear's probably taking in Wheeler.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they would.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, all right, interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, last one, we did floor ceiling for Caleb Williams.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do floor ceiling this year for the offense in terms of where they can rank in the league.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do you think the ceiling is in terms of where they can be?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is the floor in terms of where this offense is?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it top twenty top fifteen top ten?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where can this offense?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, ceiling, I think it could be top ten.
[SPEAKER_01]: If everything goes right, everything clicks top ten.
[SPEAKER_01]: My realistic, I think they're probably going to be, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, lower for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're going to be a bottom five offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Forest got to be like top twenty fiveish in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if that makes sense, um, with that, you know, injuries, stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think there's so many bad teams, bad offenses, especially if you're really hard for the bearers to be a bottom five.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bears are bottom five offense, all these weapons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh god.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if that even if that offense like you said is twenty two twenty three.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's we're gonna wonder what what what what what what what is going wrong?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's certainly there's gonna be some finger pointing for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is Zach Pearson.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be back with me next week for part two where we focus on the defense for this training camp review.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Bill Zimmerman bears banter.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you in a week.