[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to another episode of Consciously Clueless.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Carly and here we break down complex issues around health, the climate crisis and social justice through a vegan lens.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about the magic link between your well-being and the planet's health because luckily, choosing a healthier, mindful lifestyle for yourself, often creates healthier vibes for our planet too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Staying consciously coolest means getting to show up knowing nothing, but staying open to all that you can learn.
[SPEAKER_00]: From feasting on plant-based meals and reducing ways to learning to meditate, every step you take contributes to your wellness and makes systematic change for the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can make a difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast will show you how.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello listeners, this is an episode from the consciously closed vault back from August second, twenty twenty three with our most recurring guests on this podcast, Kalin Auto.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kalin and I connected through the world of podcasting and pretty instantly became friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kalin is a queer anti-specious travel blogger who explores the big wide world on a very small budget.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether you create content in the internet or just consume it, you know it is a wild place full of persuasive marketing for things you probably don't need, and a whole lot of greenwashing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We discuss how to support companies and brands that are doing good work and pushing back against all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we also talk about signs for the ones that say they're doing that work, but are really lying.
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode is a special dual show that premiered unconsciously clueless and calens unruly podcasts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to this special podcast episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: My name is Caitlin Otto from the Unruly Podcast and I share a lot about travel and more recently sharing more about living off.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, well, you'll find my website and Instagram and my podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're sharing about all these different things about living unruly when it comes to your home, when it comes to your body, sexuality, gender, all of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love talking about vegan travel, so female travel, budget travel, and just like eco-friendly mind frames in eco-friendly livings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Carly Jean Puck.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am the host of consciously clueless and on that podcast, along with my content creation and coaching.
[SPEAKER_00]: I show people how you can live a lifestyle that makes you healthier and happier and also does those things for the planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of talk about sustainability and mindfulness, plants and all of the above.
[SPEAKER_00]: So also really excited to get into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, today we have a special episode for y'all because we're sharing out both of our podcast platforms because we want this to reach a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about some issues that have come up recently because there's a lot of consumerism shared online, but as we just told you, we're both people who are into living more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mindfully, as eco-consciously as possible, we're going to talk about some of the nuances and challenges and
[SPEAKER_01]: being a creator and being people who share their lives and share their beliefs and experiences while also trying to get paid for our time while that's trying to share it in a genuine way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the struggle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Carly, so my question for you today is it might be a harder one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you had to reprint
[SPEAKER_01]: you can consciously clue this.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you call your, all the things that you've created, the podcast that blog, what is another name that you feel like would really encapsulate all of that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Bam.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a question.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a real, that's a big question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to start to pretend to have Zoom connection issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so if I had to re-brand, I couldn't be consciously clueless anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, I love the, I love a good alliteration and I love the name consciously, clueless, but I have learned this is tangential, but I'll get to your question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I promise, but I have learned that I'm too far in marketing to go anywhere at this point, but spelling consciously is an interesting one for people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not think about an either word to type into Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like,
[SPEAKER_00]: But how do you spell that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully I've helped people learn how to spell that word a little bit in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tuffy, I think if I had to re-brand my first thoughts go to the word sustainability or something, but maybe the word imperfect or kind of something that shows that you're in the middle of the journey, which is a consciously clueless does in a different way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think something really highlighting that, a big thing I've talked about more and learned more and more in my personal life is just this kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: being a recovering perfectionist and realizing that you can't be perfectly vegan, perfectly sustainable, perfectly anything in a world that's not set up to be and reminding people of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it would be something maybe at least right now perfect, conscious living or something that would
[SPEAKER_00]: really stamp the idea of you can do this and you're not going to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I want like the essence of what you're doing is when you have to strip away the words that you've already relied on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm like, do I need a rebrand?
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: You into a crisis with this question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm like, get off of this call and I'm like writing notes and like, what is my business?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully you're brand like this song by Oh God, you're saying that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gwen Stefani, where it's this shit is burn in as B. A N A S. Okay, that's how we sing how it's a copyright.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I learned how to spell bananas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's what your blog is doing to teaching people how to spell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, or like, contrary, glamorous.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I feel like a lot of like high school boys could spell glamorous really easily because they were secretly listening to Fergi.
[SPEAKER_01]: one hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you're doing a public service to the people.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say I'll say thank you for calling my anxiety about my brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're staying consciously currently consciously clueless for now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of consciously clueless, if I have to put you
[SPEAKER_00]: on the spot a bit the idea that's actually a perfect segue the idea of this podcast name came from me realizing some days you have it all figured out and some days you're like just kidding I know nothing and you had to put yourself from clueless to conscious eyes at a spectrum where would you place yourself today in this moment
[SPEAKER_01]: today in this moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would put myself
[SPEAKER_01]: like in the middle and shift a little bit to conscious.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always a journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like when someone will ask me like, how much Spanish do you speak?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I feel fluent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, oh my God, I finally got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the language.
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand what's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the next day I enter a new part of the country where they speak differently or some other who speaks
[SPEAKER_01]: completely differently with different slang and I'm like, I know nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's how I feel on this scale so many times.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that I'm like, okay, I'm doing all of this and that's great and I've learned so much and then all of a sudden I'm like, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm back to such a good analogy where people can feel that where it's palpable where you're in some situations and you're like, I'm crushing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're in other ones and you're like, I'm a fool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I am getting crushed exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a really great answer and really great analogy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you're for asking that question because it is it's such a big thing where people like sustainability only these people can do it and they can only do it in this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's till, bro, everyone can do it in a different way and it's been done since the beginning of time before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't new.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for a turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really appreciate you like asking that question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I appreciate you answering it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So should we start with the whole reason that we forged a online friendship, which I love?
[SPEAKER_00]: that I relate truly to because we all know if we're creating content that social media can be a garbage dumpster fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time, it is like the most beautiful fun thing because I feel like I've made the coolest connections with people that I genuinely stay in touch with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks similarly to me or have these interests that maybe wouldn't be immediately around me and that is you as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've like instantly the first time we talked.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, we're old pals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like even if I've met you in person, you live in my brain as like a real friend, a real person, and that makes me feel better interacting with the world at an everyday basis.
[SPEAKER_00]: a hundred percent so our kind of origin story with the both having done some affiliate work with banks which was originally she thinks if people remember from a couple years ago and then went to thinks which was period proof underwear and then they extended out to a clothing line and yeah where do we start with this topic
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we could talk about why we were interested in this in the first.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because for me, it's like trying to live more consciously, but also trying to be comfortable at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because some people think to live more eco-friendly, eco-minded, you are going to be uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everything's going to be miserable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I feel like things made a product, which I'm sure people made before them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just the first time I had heard about it, where it's I can free bleed and it's not me free bleeding like with my period in like old underwear anymore or having to put a towel down underneath.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like I can wear really comfy underwear and rewash them or use them comfortable, more sustainable and I'm not gonna have to buy pads and tampons that are gonna go in the trash every single month.
[SPEAKER_01]: So me incredible genius great idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to have this and I still believe that it is such a great great idea and I still use them which we can talk about but that's what pulled me in what kind of pulls you into the period underwear world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I had a friend who had used them for a while because she had the opposite of me.
[SPEAKER_00]: She has really light periods.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like even tampons and stuff were like uncomfortable, but she was like, oh, this idea of being able to wear underwear and that they're comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she had told me about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like that is also great for me, which I'm the opposite.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I have
[SPEAKER_00]: When depending that's a whole literally another episode that I just did about my enemy triusus and hormones and blobby blob.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but because of that, I like can bleed really heavy or I can have spotting or it just can be like a fun surprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't know what you're going to get
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it was a nice option to wear either as a backup, like to have a comfortable backup that I'm like, I don't have to put a cup in if I, but I am worried I'm getting my period or in spotting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was just a comfortable and more eco-conscious way for me to deal with my period because I was using cotton organic pads, but it doesn't really matter when they're being
[SPEAKER_00]: crumpled up with the plastic on the back and being put in the garbage.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's better for you to have things against you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine, but that is not that much of a better option.
[SPEAKER_00]: I realized too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it just was a good, like you, it was like, I can be comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can create less waste with this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to deal with every month.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you have a choice that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be like, oh, let me just opt out of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think the other thing that was appealing is that right when I was getting into them more and more, I had started the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was in twenty twenty and I was like, I wonder if I should start trying to talk to brands.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea what I was doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But thanks was advertising their affiliate program.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you remember this too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we're actively talking about
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, this seems like a good fit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's an eco-conscious way to think about your period.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have a program and I could talk about it on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it'll just felt in timing in that way as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's how I felt too like I was just getting into the world of realizing I put so much time and effort into my blog and don't make money on it, which is fine because it is a labor of love, but like you get to the point sometimes where you want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, I felt like it was
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is, it sounds silly to me now because I feel like there's been like this boost forward where talking about your period, at least where I live in this culture has been way more normalized.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even like a year ago, it seemed like they were one of the brands that were actually talking about bleeding.
[SPEAKER_01]: True.
[SPEAKER_01]: without being like, oh, I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to bring up this issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just like bleeding or their commercials were like a girl in white pants on a horse and just like anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was more realistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good only.
[SPEAKER_01]: Different body sizes too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, yeah, the thing was about ending stigma.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was like one of their big, I think platforms, which was appealing.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is amazing because I feel like they've done a lot of great work in that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I felt the same tune.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, and honestly, before I even saw their affiliate program, I was telling people, I was like, yeah, you know, that this is an invention because I didn't say I should also get affiliate, like, back paid affiliate for how many people I've told about the diva cup.
[SPEAKER_00]: As they all know, you can use a cup up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we were both using them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are both sharing about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this lawsuit comes out against them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And do you want to talk about what it was or what your thoughts were when you first heard about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the lawsuit was that there were
[SPEAKER_00]: chemicals in the underwear basically that they had claimed they were organic and chemical free and there had been tests done that that wasn't true.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's PFAS.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I'm looking right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: An anti-microbial agent made of silver and copper to diffuse oral order.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was just some things that they had claimed weren't there and they had to settle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I first saw this, there had been allegations of this in the past that didn't get a lot of press I would say.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so a couple times thinks would address that in
[SPEAKER_00]: These meet-ups they had for affiliates like those Zoom calls and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there was an article.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what you tell people if anyone asks about our products.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are free of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a little statement that they gave.
[SPEAKER_00]: If someone asks, yeah, we're good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't really given much thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will admit that I just blindly trusted.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, OK, I'm sure they're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really want to deal with thinking about it, if I'm being honest, which now I would more.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then the settlement, I would say, was a bit rude.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's real.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a real thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not to be ignored.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was a little overwhelmed at first, because it was a bit of the first experience of being like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I done damage for people, I've promoted this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've talked about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I have to back pedal or
[SPEAKER_00]: which I don't think that in the same way now, but this is an initial thought of being like, I did you wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: We see those posts people have to make on social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, but and I was just thinking how I was going to handle that and I felt bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like maybe what if I pushed something that could harm people and then that made me think about
[SPEAKER_00]: other people I work with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was just an interesting, interesting thing to be confronted with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will admit probably really good for me to be confronted with to have to think a little bit more critically and be reminded of flippetential power you have when you talk about stuff online.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a little long-winded.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I wanted to know how you were feeling because it made me think about that too because I don't know when you have vlogs like us that we don't have like millions of followers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I feel like, oh, I'm not really doing much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not really meeting that many people.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then something like this happens and I'm like, oh, people did.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're influenced by me.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did listen to me and they've been there money, which for me, I think so critically about how I spend my money.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, they spent their money because I promoted this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that means that they trust me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Be there like listening to what I have to say and see the action on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I realized that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I do have some sway in this platform.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I felt the same too at first.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I didn't want to think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, God, but they have the label on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have this tested by their party and all the things that they had sent out to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then when the lawsuit hit, I was like, oh, this is a real thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard to know because
[SPEAKER_01]: One, there's this brand that you, I'm not one who I'm like, I love businesses and brands.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always like, y'all are trying to make money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's your number one.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not I never love a brand unless it's like my friend made it and it's just.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not one of those people where it's like brand loyalty like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just think they just because they were so straightforward about periods and trying to destake my eyes everything that I was like, yeah, they're very honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so why would they lie now?
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess is what I was thinking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I decided you and I have been chatting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I decided to take it off of my website where I have affiliate links.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I stopped posting about it about thanks on social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: And which was fun to have to not have to, but to get to post intentionally about period underwear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And not that I won't again, but it just was a little motivation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I stopped doing that and I think that
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't work with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess like moving forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: In this world that we talked earlier, like you can't be perfect in a world that isn't set up to be perfect, but I won't move forward working with them, given the things I stand for in terms of taking care of our bodies holistically and not having those things
[SPEAKER_00]: in your body or near your body, if you can help it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just the lack of transparency, I think, is maybe a question, but I also am going to use all of those things under where that I have, which is quite a few.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to use them until I can't anymore until they've lost their life, which takes a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a personal choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm making.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see how people would maybe not want to use them anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, I also am realizing that I've used them already.
[SPEAKER_00]: I own them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm exposed to chemicals in other ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not someone who is a hundred and ten percent chemical free.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm realistic in the sense that I know there are other ways and being exposed to things that I'm not even sure of or
[SPEAKER_00]: some of the bugs brand had to douse myself in to not die working in the woods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever else it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm realistic about that, but I will still use them because we talked about this a little bit too.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's I was torn.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't want to create more waste because that's completely a tithetical to one of the reasons I talked about them in the first place.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't throw away probably a dozen pair of underwear and I have the bike shorts and the sleep shorts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, though, I love them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those can't be beads.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're so soft.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, this is their perfectly good condition.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's goes against what I believe in creating a necessary way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where I've landed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally understand if people landed a different spot if they used an own things underwear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did you find that?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I felt too I totally understand to people don't feel comfortable using them but I felt the same way and I was I did research for a while to see after so many washes do the chemicals come out which that's not good right because I know like flowing into the water but I had ran I think after it was like seven to twelve washes that whatever chemicals in them may have come out or at least I'm definitely passed that
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, wow, I have to use these so many times.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I felt the same as you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess going forward, it taught me like,
[SPEAKER_01]: working with brands not to, I wasn't just going into it not being critical right before I started working with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I looked them up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I looked up their labor practices, chemicals, all of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they vegan?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who makes them?
[SPEAKER_01]: How much do those people get made?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where are they shipping from?
[SPEAKER_01]: These were already questions that I was asking that I know you were already asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I still got fooled.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you want to believe, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you want to believe there are companies that
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, look, we're in late sage capitalism.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, these people want to make money.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's no secret.
[SPEAKER_00]: You and I want to make money.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a bad thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because of where we're at, there is so much
[SPEAKER_00]: corruption and so much bullshit in that within that system that I think you and I seem like people who are like we want to believe there are these good people doing it differently and so when you find them you don't you want to be like yeah, I was rooting for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believed in you
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so how are you going to navigate this going forward?
[SPEAKER_01]: And how do you navigate that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Having your blog, having your platform wanting to get paid like monetarily for some of the work that you do because it supports you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It helps you keep going.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you figure this out going forward with new brands, with maybe brands that you already had?
[SPEAKER_01]: Did that make you like think about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's, yeah, what's your take?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so starting with brands that I had, this was, there was like a trifecta for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This thinks scandal happened and then did you hear about better help?
[SPEAKER_00]: So better help is also a brand I've worked with just because I thought
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great to promote affordable, accessible mental health services.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had people in my life that had used it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I work with someone locally just because I started working with them during an intense breakdown and I'm not ready to train in a new therapist.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I started traveling more again, I would use a service like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it came out that they had sold some in the client information for Facebook ads.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, which is not the first company to do this Facebook's done this shit with our stuff in the last few years.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had a couple people message me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had just had a better help video come out being like, did you know that this is happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I had to look into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've paused on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even sure where I stand because they've
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm talking, I'm like, this is real time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm figuring this out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they've made their amendments.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're still providing services.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I do with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still not sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've paused in posting about them, but then I also take cues from bigger podcasters that I really respect in this space, like the try guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they are still using better help as a sponsor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it's just interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not even sure where I stand on that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still, I think I still have it on my website, but I haven't been putting their ads into my podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a question for you, because I was just thinking like, I did this with things where I, when I learned about that information, I shared it to my story and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yep, hey, y'all, I know you have bought this for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's going on with them, but here's the information.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sorry if I've
[SPEAKER_01]: led you astray, like I did my best to vet this, but here's what you need to know now, so make your own decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: So is that something that you do to when you realize, oh, this isn't good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't approached it in that way yet because I really was trying to figure out
[SPEAKER_00]: What I was going to do and how to communicate that, I think that's the right, like what you said is the right choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And after this, I had planned to do like a poster to and some stories around this episode, just being like this episode is we're getting so transparent on how this stuff works.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we talk about something that I
[SPEAKER_00]: didn't totally bring up yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I did share maybe a story to this is happening with things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm learning more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe just like that line or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to probably do that with better help.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I actually just might ask, I'm curious what you all think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll make my own decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: But do you think I should stop working with them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because those are the people who are like supporting you if they do buy things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, watching your content.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's like who you need to hear from.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think I am going to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then that happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then one brand that I was, if he about from the beginning that I've worked with is Mint Mobile.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only reason I did it is because I've used it for gosh five years now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And genuinely loved their service.
[SPEAKER_00]: And their whole stick was saying like FU to Big Mobile.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And doing your own thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, something I actually believe in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I might as well share that this is an option for you if you travel, if you do whatever, that they have good service, I live in the woods, so the fact that I have service means it's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had worked with them just as I didn't really post about them on social media, more just as podcast ads.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they were just bought by T mobile.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, see, I didn't even know that because I'm also a fan and I was thinking maybe I should reach out to them and try to work with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I still have, I'm still set up within.
[SPEAKER_00]: They still have the program set up because they're just like putting it under the umbrella, but no, I'm like, is it still the same thing though?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will be honest with you, no shade to mint because I love you and personally tell people about mint.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one has used my code.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the other reasons I was okay with letting the ads drop from my podcast because
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's something a phone thing is weird people need to like on their parents plans to or they're like I don't want to switch because that's too much work I'd been with Verizon for twenty four years or like whatever it is so I get it but it was like a boom of me having to be like oh no this is this is the
[SPEAKER_00]: potential right with attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're named anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's the kind of like current landscape and in terms of what I will do moving forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think be more and more transparent.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also think that realistically.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to come up with a different model.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we are operating within late-stage capitalism to try and fuck with late-stage capitalism.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, by the time this comes out, the episode will have come out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we're recording this tomorrow, an episode with plain products, which I use and promote, which is the sustainable return your bottle of shampoo, conditioner, and you get a new one circular system.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're CEO will be on the podcast and she's a badass and super cool and I Like working with them because they're trying to do something different within the system we have and that's where I think it starts There's this anarchist sense of me that's burned it down and start over of course because it's all such bullshit, but at the same time
[SPEAKER_00]: If that's not, if that's not the strategy yet, we need to find ways to do it differently with what we've got.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if I can support brands like that that are like, no, let's use less plastic and less chemicals and have a like Netflix style circular system early Netflix.
[SPEAKER_00]: Netless style, where you turn things in the mail and they get used for someone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will continue as of right now to work with people that I think can do things differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just practicality, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Shopping and buying things won't save the climate crisis, but I still need shampoo.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like this place.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I understand that I'm talking about the system and it's ruining the Earth and ourselves and then I'm like by this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I get that sometimes it doesn't make sense, but it's like for me right now in this moment, maybe we'll both listen to this in a year and we'll be like, oh my gosh, we were so young.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, who knows, but for me right now, I think it's the best I can do in terms of making this lucrative enough for me to help people and help people learn and also support yourself, support myself and do the best I think we can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is sometimes buying things.
[SPEAKER_00]: My living sustainably, I think should start with buying less, but you still need some stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, when you need those things, maybe I can point you in the best direction we have right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the best direction that we have right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is huge because I am in so many ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's within the animal rights movement.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like abolitionists versus wealth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always an in so many and in my life, it's
[SPEAKER_01]: that same thing when I'm trying to be more sustainable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in my heart of hearts, in in my heart, like that people is on my sleeve, it's burning down, like screw all of this, but then there are everyday needs and you are stuck in the system.
[SPEAKER_01]: How can you keep that burning in your heart and do that when you can?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then at the same time, do the best with what you have, which is what I also feel like I'm trying to do with my blog.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I'm just going to share all of the radical, like, track beliefs that I have.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, when I made a post about the things underwear, I think for one of the first times, oh, God, which was embarrassing, looking at my graphics back then, it's final.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I hate throwing back on the Instagram torture.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even some of my podcasts episodes were like oh my god, but it's I was like here is the things underwear and also you can take old underwear that you have or old sweatpants or whatever you can free bleed in those and you can wash those and do and they'll be stained but you do it again and again and then I even had a bidet a portable bidet that I was working with the company to give some away at vegan fest cool and I was like here's this thing this portable one that's like well made
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can take a old soap bottle, like you would, like a soap bottle, and you can use that as a bidet.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it works almost the same, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, you're not buying something new, you're actually using what you already have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for me, it's trying to be like, if you are going to buy something, because some people just are, and sometimes I'm that person too, but some people just are not, they would never use an old soap bottle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would never free bleed in an old pair of underwear, like never.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I'm like, here is the best option that I can provide you with.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you are the person who would do that, please do what you already have.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes for me, it's a combination of both going back and forth between the two.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just whole idea of meeting people where they're at.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like when I first I talked about this on the podcast at nausea, everyone's like about to roll their eyes, but I went through that angry vegan phase, right, where I was just like, everyone listened to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what you should do and how you should live and how you'll be healthier and why it's the best thing for the planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not doing it, you're silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And apparently that approach is not cute and does not go well because that's not what that's not what I want to hear that's not what I listen to right somebody tells me to do something I'm going to do the opposite just.
[SPEAKER_00]: to be just because.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a kind of a duh, but I had to realize that's just not how it works.
[SPEAKER_00]: You do meet people where they're at because then they're more likely to go much further if on their own if it's their decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's meet individuals where we're at, but then let's force corporations to do better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where I'm at.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's like we can force individuals.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not their fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's like meet the individuals we're at and making change and then let's say like F U to the bigger things that we can be like, no, you have to change now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always am thinking in this in terms of like veganism, too, because it's so closely tied in.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still say FU to all of the farms.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will take an animal off your farm.
[SPEAKER_01]: No problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not stealing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's liberating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will do many things and not feel an ounce of remorse.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then when I meet someone during outreach, who's, I can't give up cheese.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not like, you should be going on the farm.
[SPEAKER_00]: You piece of shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's here's a replacement here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you start doing this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me know how that goes for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if I'm just like you're a terrible person, this is what should be happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go sad eat some cheese.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna sad eat cheese.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're going, if they feel forced into it, like I've seen this when someone's dating someone and they really want them to be vegan.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like their partners forced into it to make
[SPEAKER_01]: their partner happy but then they break up and they're not vegan anymore and it's if they can come to it on their own terms and stick with it and I'm not saying that like it's still not saying that the issue is not an issue because right animals are being tortured and mutilated in all of these things yeah but it's still like how are we going to
[SPEAKER_01]: do this long term.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just so many layers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you are in a position where you can influence people, which is basically everyone, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's just taken to the internet where you can't have this platform where all of a sudden you can reach a thousand people in a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we do have to think critically about that and strategize what is sustainable for me long term?
[SPEAKER_01]: How am I
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how am I screwing with the system while also supporting myself while also like actually helping people and maybe a hard thing to figure out sometimes?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a daily thing when I try to plan my content for
[SPEAKER_00]: the internet weekly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have little notes next to my desk that are like my pillars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, go living mindfulness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I try and post about all those different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes I look at a post and I'm just like, what am I doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this imposter syndrome?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who am I?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do people care?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this doing anything?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like totally a thing when you're trying to tell people like,
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to do better.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're like, is this coming across that way?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this making my message heard?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this trivialized?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a daily thing to figure out how to do this well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, and while also staying true to you and also if you're experiencing anger or grief or any of these feelings that people think are messy or like you shouldn't be expressing online, while also honoring yourself and being able to express that.
[SPEAKER_01]: because you don't want to like wash over who you are and how you're actually feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's another part of it too that sometimes can be hard to figure out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like with messaging and how you're doing it and how that's received because we're walking this weird line where people are following you because they want to hear from you but they're
[SPEAKER_01]: expecting the certain tone out of you once they think they knew you through this online world and then sometimes I'm just hit with waves of grief and waves of rage and and I want to express that and I want that to be like I'm a real person I you watch me on the internet but I'm like a real human and I feel this and this is valid and here's why I feel it while also still having people listen and not just be
[SPEAKER_01]: turned off when you have an end goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just God is so weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a mess is with my mind to have the internet and the reach people and it's like it hasn't been done before.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are the yeah testers of this and who knows what it's going to do to like our mental health.
[SPEAKER_00]: to help me talk about this in therapy in a few years for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be listening back to this podcast episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be like, I should have signed up for that service.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carly was talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like funny, but not, but funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a question for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: What advice would you give to someone who is coming into this internet space newly?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're starting a blog.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're starting a podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be approached by brands.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to approach brands with what you've learned so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you guide them to make ethical choices that feel good for them, but are also supportive for them?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think immediately, even before you respond to anyone, unless it's like a huge brand that you already know and love and feel comfortable with, even before responding to them, do some research on your own.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like the things you said earlier in the episode, looking at their labor practices, looking at their commitment to sustainability, looking at the things that we've talked about that we went a perfect world with
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have privilege to be conscious of these things when making purchases, right, to do the research and do that and if it aligns with your ethics or whatever, reaching back out to them, but also have some questions, have some questions on, this is the moral compass of my business.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we a good fit?
[SPEAKER_00]: And given the information, I'm given you now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be afraid to tell them you're not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've had this experience, but as soon as you start putting things online that you work with brands, you get random shitty like leggings brands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whatever else and it's or like I got tagged the other day.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is how many times now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what hashtag I use to get me into this train, but I keep getting tagged in these.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can win a sheen gift card and like does that seem appropriate?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like the literal opposite.
[SPEAKER_00]: The literal opposite of what I'm trying to drive your people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's don't be afraid to automatically say this is not a good fit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a statement I copy and paste.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a good fit and doesn't work with the morals of my brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for reaching out or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be afraid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't feel bad, especially if you're new.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like you want to work with brands because there's this potential to make money.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just like anyone who please exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get that, but don't be afraid to do the research.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be afraid to say no early on because it's going to save you in the long run.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of those shitty small brands are you're not gonna make a lot in you way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you're not gonna make much anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't be afraid to hold up your morals and do your research and reach out to somebody else that is in the game because they're influencer or someone online that you appreciate does work with brands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Reach out and say, is this something that you've struggled with?
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people like to talk about this stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I would also add to that that
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't be afraid to say, hey, I got tricked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't do enough research in the beginning, or I thought I did, and this came up, don't be afraid to say, I'm sorry, and learn from it and move forward differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally on up to it and find out how to do better next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Boom.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to throw this open to you that if there's anything that there hasn't been space for you to share that you're like, if I don't say this on this podcast, I'll kick myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: One, one other thing just popped into my head because we didn't talk about the financial side of it, but the last thing that I would say is like,
[SPEAKER_01]: When I was first doing it, like getting into trying to make money and working with brands, which I feel like I'm still in that stage, it was that thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone please validate me that like what I'm doing is real by sponsoring my podcast or being a sponsor my blog.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you tend to just take whatever money you are giving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's not a lot for a lot of your time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wouldn't say that I have regrets because I've only worked with a small amount of brands on purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do have regrets not asking for more.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I put a lot of talent and time and energy into something and people are actually taking my advice.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think just like remembering your worth, not just by your numbers on social media, not by how many people is in your podcast or how many people follow you on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: all of these years of experience in my life are coming together every time it's silly yeah every time I make a silly real and I'm using like advice that I've learned from traveling all over the world and doing all these really important things like that goes into making that I'm using my life experience my time my energy so I think that yeah really remembering who you are as a person outside of
[SPEAKER_01]: the weird little social media box and being paid accordingly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for people who are like, I don't work with brands.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just consume your content.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think remembering that people in this space, especially when you're talking about being ego conscious, there are some people that just work with brands, make money, of course, in this space.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying, we're out here, we're out here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am getting better and better at being open with getting it wrong and showing that imperfection and just, yeah, keep on trying to support people and brands that you think are doing things differently because that's one of the options we have right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And remembering that like even this podcast episode, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We had to get to know each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had to plan it right like this sort of outline.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to take our computers that we've bought with our like soul sucking life force to turn into money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Record this on and then we're going to have to edit it and then we're going to have to share it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't just know where we are.
[SPEAKER_01]: hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel weird saying, I'm an influencer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I'm a writer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an actor.
[SPEAKER_01]: All these different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you're in the social media space, that's like part of it now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you're not trying to get an influencer, if you have a platform, you are influencing people.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like remembering for listeners how much time and love and energy goes into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you hear an ad and you're like, oh my god, because I used to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I heard it on a podcast, I love, I'm like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, they're like selling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm like that's forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, now I'm like, oh, what?
[SPEAKER_01]: You spent four hours on this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this sponsor said they'll give you eighty dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, yes, because if not, I'm not being paid for my time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm like, go, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get a new appreciation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just mining listeners of that too.
[SPEAKER_00]: and share and come in and review and rate and do all the things that help us that we feel uncomfortable sometimes asking for because it feels like like me, but it's a few things you can do to literally support my business.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've gotten better at that too, just liking and commenting on people's posts and being like, this was great or something, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds so trivial, but it's important.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is important.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you like something like like on the physical thing, if you like it and your heart, tell someone, let them know so that we feel like, God, this is worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, I'm just not screaming into a void here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically we're just searching for validation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will, we will both just kick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Validate us.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad that we are able to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to be such a good episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a great step forward in just being more transparent and things about things like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're hearing this message, you listen to the entire episode of Consciously Clueless.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for that, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you did, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, tag me when you share in social media, or share this episode with others who may be interested in the topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: any sharing truly means the world to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Until next time, stay consciously, clueless.