[SPEAKER_00]: time to fuel your business success.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Harmonious at Lunch.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back in to some more bite size business advice.
[SPEAKER_01]: In today's episode is probably not so bite size.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a big topic that might make some people angry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think at the listeners of this show, but I'm very excited to see the hate mail we get on the YouTube shorts that we cut up from this episode because this topic is a fun one.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about building and leading with trust in your business.
[SPEAKER_01]: Roy Reed, welcome to the show and thank you for being here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Brandon, thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to it as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I always cut up the episodes into clips and shorts and put them on the internet and they're out of context, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the stuff, the comments we get are so entertaining.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've dabbled on this topic before in the past a little bit, not as the focus of an episode, but as principals to building a business, and it always fires people up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me, where do you kind of start with this topic of building trust in an organization?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it is a big one.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know often I get asked what is it that leaders do or what's the biggest mistake leaders make when it comes to trust in the organization and it's not normally something to ferris or otherwise it usually is they assume it they they just assume it and when we do that we we really negate a lot of moving parts in the relationship and and we're not taking into account that
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody may have showed up to our organization and not had the same background, not had the same understanding.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if we assume the trust is there, then we run right past them and miss the opportunity to build a meaningful relationship in that process of building trust with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, help me understand that because that's actually, that's not what I thought you were going to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that process of actually building trust the look like?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would assume it should be the same for relatively same for every person that comes into your organization.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what does that look like for a leader?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of moving parts.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are complex individuals and yet there's a simplicity in how we engage with one another.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what we try to teach through the trust transformation, which is the evidence-based program that's at the core of the work that we do, is when you are intentional about trust.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, don't assume it, but become intentional about
[SPEAKER_02]: building trust as a part of that process just because you are the owner or the leader doesn't mean that it automatically kicks in because of your title or because of the role that you play.
[SPEAKER_02]: So being intentional about it says you got to take a step back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Besides that humility in the midst of that leadership, and then really go to work on first understanding the person.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the key ideas we teach is that there's going to be four types of people in your life regardless of where you find yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to always have your advocates, which are the people that are sold out to a hundred percent of everything that you do, and they're there at a moment's notice whenever you need them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have your allies who are somewhat aligned with you, but maybe not quite as sold out as the advocate.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're going to have a large number of people that we call the agnostics and these are the people that don't yet have that understanding of who you are or that belief in you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're really the blank slate of people out there and a huge majority of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're going to have adversaries, people that for whatever reason might be on the other side of an issue with you, maybe trust was broken with them at some point or they broke trust with you, but it's it's it's the more difficult of the relationships in all four of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that filter meant to be not judgment but condition.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so leaders looking through that filter and understanding where that relationship lies and what is it that I need that relationship to become is part of that intentionality.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so teaching leaders
[SPEAKER_02]: that they're always going to have to deal with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not, again, a good or bad thing that somebody's in a particular position necessarily.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that acknowledgement, and now you have that intentionality, and you start taking actions that matter.
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of the key ideas here is that you take responsibility for the relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: You see them not just as transactional, but as a much more engaging, much more meaningful part of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: that thing you do called leadership.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that we teach is in terms of a guiding principle here is that you build trust from the inside out.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to hold yourself accountable to a certain certain standards before really holding that out for others to live up to.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's two of the four guiding principles that we engage people with, but probably two of the most important is in terms of understanding the ideas behind this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we really want leaders to understand that trust works on a variety of different levels.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I was mentioning to you in our conversations before.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the end of the day, I want people to see trust not as a fragile emotion that may or may not be there for them every day.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want them to embrace trust
[SPEAKER_02]: as an operating system, your leadership operating system, and see it for what it is in terms of this robust idea with a lot of different contributing factors to it, many of which you have influenced on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ultimately, the other person has to make that decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're much more intentional about it, if you're focused on really embracing and taking responsibility for that relationship,
[SPEAKER_02]: You're building trust again from the inside out and everything that you do, you'll see it for that and understand that at a much deeper level.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you'll see the results.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the benefit to this is when you become intentional about it, when you put it out there as a driver in your culture, things change and they change for the better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to break down how we can actually use trust as an operating system.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go back to your four categories real quick because as a leader, I would assume you want your employees, your team members to fall in the first two advocates or allies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I right in assuming that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the desired condition of the relationship, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So these are all
[SPEAKER_02]: conditions of relationship, not necessarily the pillars of how the program works.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is one factor of it is understanding that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you would want people that you work with and for to be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, you are going to have in any work environment.
[SPEAKER_02]: There will be
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are adversarial at some level.
[SPEAKER_02]: They could be your competitors or otherwise, but those inside you certainly want to see them move into those those two roles and make those decisions to be committed to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know I'm kind of honing in on one part here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's interesting because I've never heard these.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard it broken down like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you assess if you're a leader listening or watching to this right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you assess kind of where each individual on your team within your company are before we move into trust as an operating system?
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of it begins with the conversations and the presence that you have with people.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the attributes that we teach is the idea of authentic relationships, like real meaningful relationships, and each of these attributes has contributing factors to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the ones that we dive into is presence in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what we find in working with different organizations, again,
[SPEAKER_02]: Moving out of that space of assumption and into that space of intentionality when you are being in tension about building presence with people, you're able to see and experience where that relationship is on a much more regular basis.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as you connect with your people and strive
[SPEAKER_02]: to build that intentional relationship that you do, those are the kind of things that become second nature in understanding where that is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So those are the, probably the easiest ways that we can engage.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can certainly look at more formalized ideas about how do you craft and develop your employee surveys and other tools around that idea that might help give a little bit
[SPEAKER_02]: More insight, but what you're asking, what I hear you asking is that group of people that are in your closest circle.
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the things that you need to be doing on a regular basis?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would argue that that intentionality of that presence is critical.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's huge because that could be felt in a moment from somebody else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone you're talking to.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a really good tip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now moving into the trust as an operating system, I'm curious whether you're working with a company or you're just observing them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you typically find people on this spectrum?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what does the transition look like to get into trust as a true operating system for a company?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we engage in organization, normally what we'll do is we'll come in and take them through a four hour half day training program, the evidence based programs, the core of what we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: The key factor that you're focused on is the important question though, and that is, first, how does trust work?
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that we'll do is we'll ask people as part of an exercise to think of three people that you trust the most.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then assign each of those people with a reason, an attribute, what's the thing that makes that person really connect and be so trusted by the outcome we want is trusted.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll come back to that in a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll get all kinds of answers, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, get words like dependable or love or they're there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can tell them anything or I can be myself with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so as you begin to look at all of the reasons people trust you start to see the words sort of migrate into two buckets.
[SPEAKER_02]: is a bucket of emotion and the other is a bucket of experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so emotion may be one of the things that first hits us about why we trust someone or why we don't trust them, but it's the experience we have with them over time that really begins to inform that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so those two drivers really set up the framework for the model that we work through that says if we have an experiential
[SPEAKER_02]: component to trust or an emotional component and an experiential component.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we look at four attributes that emerge from that, the attribute of being trustworthy, which is congratulations you've earned the right to be trusted.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not the outcome yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: The attribute of authenticity, having a real meaningful relationship with someone which I referenced earlier, that really aligns with that emotional scale that we talked about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then along the experiential scale is the concept of dependability, are we giving that consistent reliable performance in all the things that we do?
[SPEAKER_02]: And each of those three have different contributing factors to them that really define excellence in those areas, then there's a fourth
[SPEAKER_02]: attribute which sits this kind of an outlier toward the upper right of the scale and that's the idea of influence.
[SPEAKER_02]: And influence is the gift of trust.
[SPEAKER_02]: When people trust us now, we have that ability as a leader to speak into things to be that leadership voice that can move the agenda as it needs to be moved.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we really break each of those four areas down, provide
[SPEAKER_02]: People with a deeper understanding of what are the things you need to be doing consistently to be more trustworthy, to be authentic in all of your relationships, to be more dependable in how you deliver and then and then how do you exercise that influence in a way that's making a difference the way it should.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love how you break that down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was in this this group mastermind, whatever we want to call it, there was kind of focused on influence, something sales, speaking, networking, that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they always said that
[SPEAKER_01]: your ability to influence and I think they were halfway there was based on a shared experience, which I know you just touched on an experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I always felt like that was incomplete because I'm like, but you could have two people that experience the same thing, but emotionally have two completely different outcomes or takeaways.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because
[SPEAKER_01]: In that very group, I have a number of partners to this day who are very close to.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have the same emotional experience of hating that group.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an awful group and we're so close today, but there's no way we would go and do business with the people that actually enjoyed it because it's just not going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it kind of sounds like that's what you're saying is it is a similar emotional experience with the experience itself will result in influence.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did I hear that correctly?
[SPEAKER_02]: You did and you hit on an important point as well and that is
[SPEAKER_02]: We all show up with different background, with different experiences and wiring in terms of how we interpret things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we're not taking responsibility for that relationship, we're going to miss a lot of those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we tell a story in our presentation about a earthquake that took place in Alaska in the early nineteen sixties and to
[SPEAKER_02]: make a long story short, it was such a severe impact, such a severe earthquake did so much damage that it literally moved parts of the state, fifty feet.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what that means is you can't build where you were before because it's not there anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all of us go through things in life that move us or redefine us or traumatic experiences that frame up who we are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we all show up in different places in terms of how we understand things, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so having that intentionality, taking that step back, humbling yourself to say, I don't know everything about.
[SPEAKER_02]: where you've come from.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I need to know more about that as I'm striving to build a much deeper lasting, trusting relationship with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really cool metaphor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's, let's fast forward then to the outcome before we wrap up this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll put your website on the screen as you're talking.
[SPEAKER_01]: So listeners can go check that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also down below in the show notes wherever you're watching or listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's say company goes through your program.
[SPEAKER_01]: You said it's a four hour training.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there's follow-ups, if there's more trainings, whatever that may be.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does the outcome look like?
[SPEAKER_01]: The general transformation that you see from your clients from wherever they started to actually having trust is a foundational principle of their business.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now this is the coolest part and this is what I live for every engagement.
[SPEAKER_02]: The outcome of the training is for that team to embrace developed draft and adopt what we call a trust contract.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're off a familiar with what makes up a cultural construct of your organization's culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have your mission, your vision, your values, your service standards,
[SPEAKER_02]: The trust contract is the piece of it that defines the relationships and it expresses through learning all of the different parts of it how we as a team are going to commit to doing very specific things or not doing certain things that we know are going to build
[SPEAKER_02]: or the ones we don't do damage that relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the team adopts it, we draft it, we spend some time focused on it, and then they all sign it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it becomes part of that construct.
[SPEAKER_02]: And bringing in what we've seen is real transformation.
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of our clients, a small hospital.
[SPEAKER_02]: that new leadership came in to essentially a hospital that was failing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was performing in the lowest, twenty-five percent for patient satisfaction and the lowest, twenty-five percent for clinical outcomes as it relates to hospital-based infections.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go through the training, adopt the contract, fifteen months later, I'm interviewing this CEO
[SPEAKER_02]: For my own accountability to see what happened and all those numbers flipped so they were now in the upper fifty percent on patient satisfaction continue and to strive for more and it moved in the upper eighty percent.
[SPEAKER_02]: positive for the hospital-based infections.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they had actually gone six months with zero when he came to see me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so those are meaningful.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're meaningful in terms of their outcomes from a health standpoint.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's a number attached to all of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's savings attached to all of that that impact the bottom line across the board.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even to the idea of retention of people
[SPEAKER_02]: when they feel better about the place and the organization that they work for.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this isn't, it's not all about the warm fuzzies and the hugs and feeling better about what we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to see those outcomes and we want to assign those types of things and think about those things as we execute this trust contract for the organization.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's super cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love hearing stuff like that, too, because it's one of those things where you probably could classify it as a quote unquote soft skill, correct?
[SPEAKER_01]: But it has such a massive impact on the organization.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on the numbers, like you said, the metrics that actually show the results.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that case, I know not every case is life and death, but it's truly life and death.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's huge.
[SPEAKER_01]: You potentially save lives by implementing that in an organization.
[SPEAKER_01]: Roy, this is a super cool conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad we got to sit down and talk about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very much in line with what we believe on this show that business is way more than just dollars in cents.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's door people.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thanks for stopping by.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy to be here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a minute and I'll share one more thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I always want people to think about this and things that we often relate to.
[SPEAKER_02]: So about fifteen years ago, I came home on a Friday night, my daughter, who's the youngest of four in the only girl.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you kind of got a picture there about how much she rules the rules.
[SPEAKER_02]: She had turned our dining room into a bracelet factory.
[SPEAKER_02]: be everywhere to send ocean violation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she was so excited about this bracelet she made for me and asked if I'd put it on and I told her I would.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was Memorial Day weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: So went everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're in the bracelet.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mall, the movies, the church picnic, all these stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she would show it off everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was technically known as showing tell for that weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Tuesday comes along and I run out the door, I put the bracelet on the dresser, go to work, I come home that night.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's still slaving away working on these little bracelets and I'm thinking that OSHA didn't get the memo.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kim and I are making dinner in the kitchen and faith comes running in.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's got another bracelet and I look at her and think I've only got so much harm to give to your cause.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she says this, Daddy, if you didn't like the other bracelet, will you wear this one?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a devastating moment as a parent.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've let your child down.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I went in the bedroom and I grabbed that bracelet and I put it on and I wear it every day.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's this little bead bracelet here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I wanted to share in that story is in what I want people to understand is I wear it for two reasons.
[SPEAKER_02]: One because I told her I would.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm keeping that commitment.
[SPEAKER_02]: But two,
[SPEAKER_02]: It reminds me that every little thing that I say or do is either contributing to or taking away from the trust that people have in me.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if everyone leaves with one thing today, it's to be more intentional, mindful, and understand that it's those little things that all add up that make up this big bad thing we call trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always say that kids are our greatest teachers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you ever want to know what you're doing right or wrong, go watch your kids play for five minutes, at least that is with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what they say probably came out of my mouth and my wife's mouth first.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it'll probably fix it or if I'm in line.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a, that's a super cool story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Roy, thanks again for stopping by.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was good to be here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are you watching, listening, Roy, W Reed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's on the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's down the show notes down below.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go check that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks for being here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you on the next episode, episode four, hundred.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe that of harmonious at lunch.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you back tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another episode of harmonious at lunch in the books.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope this episode made you think, and you grab some actionable ideas to prepare your business.
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