[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, you're really welcome back to the Prejoice podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a super casual recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do a little bit of screen sharing and hopefully no editing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I can get this all in one take, that would be amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wanted to share just a quick update over the last couple of days over on my sub stack, which you can find at preacherboys.substack.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been covering a new independent fundamental Baptist Church called Sure Foundation Baptist Church, founded by Erin Thompson, and the main speaker there is Justin Zong, who I've talked about on the show previously.
[SPEAKER_01]: And specifically, there was a men's preaching night this past Sunday, where four members from the congregation got up and delivered these fifteen minutes sermons to the church.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the first two in particular were incredibly militant and violent and featured some really horrific stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I covered that.
[SPEAKER_01]: These particular sermons also got the attention of the local news there in Indiana.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they started working on a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was lucky enough to be featured in a segment created about this sermon night here at the church.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this was, this was really interesting and I did the interview earlier today was interviewed for about eleven to twelve minutes and always when you get interviewed first of like this, you know, there's a chance it's just kind of disappear or that they're not going to fall up with it or that they're not going to use anything that you said at all, which is
[SPEAKER_01]: All fine, you know, they have their things they have to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I know in the past, like, I've had weird experiences with me here in the past, which might say a lot about me and how usable other things I say are.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I did an interview with like the Huffington Post back in like, twenty, twenty or twenty-one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't even know where that article is now, but the only way they cited me was like a real quick quote
[SPEAKER_01]: and then it just said a podcaster and then it like hyperlink to a dead webpage and I was like okay great fantastic shout out and then I did one for rolling so I was like forty five minute interview and the piece actually is amazing that it was for but I'm just not in it at all so I don't think I gave anything usable in those forty five minutes so
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, when you do this stuff, you know, you never know if it's going to get bumped for it, but your story, you never know if they're going to use some or any of what you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, when I found out that there were previous pieces together on this church, I was like really excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was glad this was getting some attention because a lot of people don't know about churches like this in their areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: And was so pleased when the five o'clock news hits and the segment dropped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm going to go ahead and just play a little bit of it for you and do two things.
[SPEAKER_01]: One, first of all, this is not a replacement for going and watching the video over on their channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to get the uninterrupted like three minutes and change video that the investigative team over at Wish TV did, just go to their channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've linked to that video.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the very top of the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So go check it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be pausing and playing and giving commentary and I'm also going to be sharing a couple clips from the full interview I did with the reporter behind this, her name is Kyla and you'll see her here in a minute in the episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just wanted to share some of my longer answers just to give you a little sneak peek behind some of the stuff that wasn't used.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, we talked for about eleven twelve minutes and I think they picked some really good sound bites from everybody that they talked to both myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a person who represented some activism in the LGBTQ plus community and they got a statement from some clergy there in Indiana.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, let me go ahead and press play here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, this is not a replacement for watching the actual video.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go check it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm assuming give some commentary at some extra clips and things like that here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, kind of watch it with you guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, back here at home, and Indianapolis Church is calling for members of the LGBTQ plus community to be put to death or to kill themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Indianapolis, faith leaders, they're condemning the message.
[SPEAKER_00]: It teammates, Kyla Russell joins us now with video of that sermon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And why the queer community says that it's deeply harmful, Kyla.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, hey, they're fair.
[SPEAKER_06]: And so the sermon was titled, pray the gay away.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it was given from the pulpit inside the Sheriff Foundation Baptist Church on the northwest side of the city.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing good to be proud about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Be a f***.
[SPEAKER_04]: You want to blow yourself in the head and then back in the head.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're so disgusting.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's Stephen Falco.
[SPEAKER_06]: He's inside the fundamental Baptist Church and is speaking during men's preaching night.
[SPEAKER_06]: The event was a live stream on their Facebook.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got much of f***s that want to come around.
[SPEAKER_04]: Walk on our streets and demand our children.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we should welcome the eye and say, no, we're not going to have our children.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was just one of the clips from that preaching.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Stephen Falco was the first speaker.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you had him, and then you had a second speaker, his name was Wade Raleigh, and they didn't use any of that in the in the news segment here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'll play just one quick clip from Wade.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to be crystal clear, I did not censor the clip I'm about to play for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it does contain some homophobic slurs and some strong language.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just be aware of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm showing this just so you can see the context of what they're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's again a very vile and violent statement in equal measure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's that clip from Wade Rally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he's tone of sexism, vagance.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you got another pride month here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously, I think they should be put to death.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll go further.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they should be beaten in public first for all their sick and demanded just factory and the things are doing to our schools, to our government, to our institutions, to our churches.
[SPEAKER_02]: These people should be beaten and stopped in the mud and then they should take a gun and blow the back of their heads off.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we get that's just a small sampling of the type of preaching that was present at the church.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll get back into the news report here, but yeah, this was all on one night at this men's preaching night.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are not the pastors of the church, but congregants who are given a platform and this is the kind of stuff that they were sharing.
[SPEAKER_06]: continues to call for the death of the queer community.
[SPEAKER_06]: Following the sermon, I reached out to the church about his words.
[SPEAKER_06]: They told me that Falco is only calling for the death penalty and suicide for the actual Sodomites or homosexuals.
[SPEAKER_06]: The Bible teaches that those people are worthy of death.
[SPEAKER_06]: They are supposed to be executed by the government.
[SPEAKER_06]: We are not to take the... into our own hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was really surprised, honestly, by this statement.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I did the full interview with Kyla, she told me that the church refused to be interviewed, which I was stunned by, because so many NIP pastors chomp at the bit to get in front of media whenever they can and to share their beliefs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think of Stephen Anderson, who just like, anytime there's a camera, he just spawns nearby.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, I was really surprised that they did not want to comment through a video interview or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I did think it was interesting that they issued this statement, which doesn't make them sound any better.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were only calling for the death penalty for homosexuals.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were only calling for those people to commit suicide.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, like, again, they caveat this with, like, we're not supposed to take the lawn to our own hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you listen to the rhetoric of the preaching, like the clip I just played for you, or the clip that the, that Kyla included in this broadcast, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: How long until someone in the pew hears this type of rhetoric about taking weapons and quote, blowing people in the back of the head before someone does that before someone takes us to an extreme here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I thought it was interesting that they didn't want to do the interview and that they issued the statement.
[SPEAKER_06]: supposed to be executed by the government.
[SPEAKER_06]: We are not to take the law into our own hands.
[SPEAKER_06]: I also reached out to members of the LGBTQ plus community to ask how this rhetoric impacts them.
[SPEAKER_06]: Ali Klausing is a mom to four kids in an advocate in the community.
[SPEAKER_05]: Children are targeted silently and violently.
[SPEAKER_05]: These children don't know
[SPEAKER_05]: social constructs until we teach them that and so when we're teaching them through hate and disguising it through scripture what we're doing is abusing them and visibly this was such a good point that was brought up here is I mean in the clips I don't know if you could hear it in the clips that were played in the broadcast I have to go back and listen but when you listen to the full sermon
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an integrated service.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the entire family's in the auditoriums, you can literally hear kids like babbling and talking in the background of these messages while these extremely violent things are being said from the pulpit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, beyond just teaching, you know, if you want to go into like the traditional gender roles that are taught in church, which
[SPEAKER_01]: is a whole subject for another day, like when you're teaching about extreme acts of violence toward people who do not believe the same as you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just horrific and, you know, it's terrifying to think that there's kids growing up in these content.
[SPEAKER_06]: Turn clergy of Indianapolis tells me the message is theologically irresponsible and pastorally dangerous saying they stand for dignity, inclusion, and justice for all people, including their LGBTQ plus brothers and sisters.
[SPEAKER_01]: you're just seeing it get worse and worse and worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, I don't know which one's scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: The people that say it or the people who internalize it and feel that way, what you wouldn't know it, you know, because they don't say it publicly.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's Eric Scorsinski.
[SPEAKER_06]: He grew up in a fundamental church and now investigates abuse and extremist behavior in churches like this with a preacher voice podcast.
[SPEAKER_06]: He says growing up, it was common to hear church members say they would rather their child be dead than gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll play that clip here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I had the full clip there with some context.
[SPEAKER_01]: Growing up, we certainly didn't have pastors getting in the pulpit that were calling for the death penalty for LGBTQ people.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, it was common rhetoric to hear people say, oh, I'd rather my child be dead than gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that same language was there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the new independent fundamental Baptist movement as an offshoot is just taking all of the language and internal rhetoric and just ramping it up to eleven for
[SPEAKER_01]: attention and to kind of rally their supporters in a really intense way.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something like in the full length interview that I did that I hit over and over again and I think it's something that is absolutely true about the NIFB is that there is this competitive outreach bait
[SPEAKER_01]: that happens where each guy tries to be more shocking than the last.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, whether you're talking a Stephen Anderson in like the early two thousands, then making way for other generations of NIP pastors that up the ante more and more and more to know where you're in the Aaron Thompson's and you're in the Justin Zongs who are saying this up that they're saying now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like they're all competing with each other to be more shocking than the last one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even with Steven Anderson, I think I mentioned this and they extended interview that we did too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Steven Anderson attended for a period, a Hiles Anderson College, which is a very extreme fundamentalist school.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was an extreme enough for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he went on and he started his own thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's just trying to up the ante over and over and over again down the road.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just recently that the language is becoming so literal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Christian Nationalism in general is on the rise.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing rhetoric that in the last couple of years was unspoken or at least only spoken in the four walls of a church now making into the mainstream.
[SPEAKER_01]: I figured who I was talking to, but someone kind of called me out on that where I was like, you know, churches are now saying the quiet part out loud.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I figured who I was, maybe it was T a loving or Christian you may.
[SPEAKER_01]: I figured who I was, but they basically said,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, well, it was never quiet.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just set it within their church.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, yeah, they're saying the internal church family stuff to the public.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're seeing a lot of that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: People are feeling rather emboldened to keep pushing that direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things that Kyla asked me and I'll pull this from the, the full interview that we did, you know, she asked me if I was surprised by the content that she's like, you've been
[SPEAKER_01]: Researching this for like five years are you surprised even still by the rhetoric being used here and this was my response.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't say it was shocking at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's it's part for the course and I think you notice and and the course of this night as there's multiple preachers they're using very same language you know they're using very similar phrases.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love my grammar there.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're using very same language.
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter that, that's snipped out.
[SPEAKER_01]: The phrases of, you know, they'd be shot in the back of the head was iterated twice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, it's something they were hearing from other people within the church that they're now parading.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, like I said, this is going back as far as, you know, two thousand five was Steven Anderson.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, none of it's shocking to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what's shocking to me
[SPEAKER_01]: out of all of this is not the churches saying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that the local communities seem to not know what's happening in their neighborhoods and their communities.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the ones that do say, okay, well, that's extreme, but it's not widespread.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this one group of like, twelve people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just not the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: You look at someone like Aaron Thompson.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's taking groups of twelve to fifteen people and he's building these little micro churches across the country now with multiple in Washington, some Indianapolis, one in the UK, one in Hawaii, one in Canada, and so they are small, but they are spread out.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's disturbing to me to think that there is even twelve people who might be working with in your business who are then attending this church on Sunday and are saying, hey, you need to pray for your coworker who's gay to die.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's, you know, regardless of whether they say they call for violence or not, like it only takes one person a few to take this messaging to its natural conclusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I just said that as well, just early in this video, because I forgot to send that clip.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I really do think it's a matter of time before someone is worked up enough within a few of one of these churches to enact a violent power fantasy, like what is being taught from the pulpit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even tonight listening into Justin's on sermon, it's Wednesday, June or July second right now, and his sermon has a lot of apocalyptic, you know, story in it where he talks about in the end times, you know, we're all going to return with Jesus and wipe out everybody, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, they can argue that like, oh, that's future prophecy or they can argue that, you know, the government's so when it's going to execute homosexuals in our world view, which is still a poor end.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reality is,
[SPEAKER_01]: You see these really young guys in these churches who are so worked up, who are so hateful, who are so enraged by the existence of people who are not like them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a real potential for violence or just harm to others in the community.
[SPEAKER_01]: beyond just the verbal harm, beyond the, you know, adding a lot of mental, uh, dearest to people, there are some really dangerous possibilities as a result of teaching like that.
[SPEAKER_06]: As it's because each generation of the fundamentalist church is in competition with the last working to become a more extreme version.
[SPEAKER_01]: The phrases of, you know, they need to be shot in the back of the head was iterated twice clearly it's something they were hearing from other people within the church that they're now parading.
[SPEAKER_05]: When this stuff happens, I look at them as I think they're sick and I think that they need mental health help.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think they're so disconnected from themselves and from love.
[SPEAKER_06]: Now I also reached out to the denominations leader to ask if they agree with the sermon and have not yet heard back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious who that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would assume that she means Aaron Thompson.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be curious to know who she reached out to.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it was Aaron Thompson, or if it was someone just who's been around longer in the, and I would assume in this case, it's Pastor Thompson, since he's one that founded the church initially.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I thought this is a really excellent segment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, go watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a link to the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And please guys, seriously, it is so difficult to get new stations to cover some of these stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many of these stories get buried.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please click the link in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're listening to this, if you're watching this, if you do me one favor for the rest of the year, go over to that video, drop a comment and thank them for putting this together and drop a like, like, please make it known that stories like this are wanted and needed that they should be a priority for news organizations like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I'm so excited right now to see on Facebook that this is getting some attraction like Make it known that stories like this need to be told and that there are people out there who care about these stories and want to see them But anyway, well, I I just want to do like I said a very casual like I'm gonna just t-shirt my hair's gonna messy at the end of the day But just want to share this with you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so pleased with this
[SPEAKER_01]: existing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad that there's some attention being brought to this church by like actual media.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's phenomenal and I'm so thankful to Kyla Russell and to the MSG team over at WishTV for putting this all together.
[SPEAKER_01]: It means a lot so
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're first time here and you're just connecting because of the story, I am a former friend of mine myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am shedding light on the dark side of the church.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to pop it to the pews.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love it if you'd subscribe to this channel and stick with me as I cover some more churches, whether it's abuse cases or toxic theology.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much to talk about every single day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: My name is Erks Rizinski.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is The Preduice Podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you on a future episode.