[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like sometimes we're too quick to blame ourselves or each other on individual basis, but it's so much bigger than that that I think we need to look higher up the food chain and who really is making these decisions and how they can be made in a way that makes it easier for the individual in the consumer to make choices.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to the Good Dirt Podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a place where we dig into the nitty-gritty of sustainable living through food, fashion, and lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're your host, Mary and Emma Kingsley, the mother and daughter founder team of Lady Farmer.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're sewing seeds of slow living through our community platform events and online marketplace.
[SPEAKER_01]: We started this podcast as a means to share the wealth of information and quality conversations that we're having in our world as we dream up and deliver ways for each of us to live into the new paradigm.
[SPEAKER_01]: One that is regenerative, balanced, and whole.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to put the microphone in front of the voices that need to be heard the most right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: The farmers, the dreamers, the designers, and the doers.
[SPEAKER_02]: So come call to be a better world with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're so glad you're here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now let's dig in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good morning, Emma.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of early.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a coffee?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Got my coffee.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ready to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's chat about our first week of plastic free July.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you had a road trip, which is challenging.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how did that go for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well luckily, and now if I didn't go too far, I just went to Charlottesville, which is just a couple of hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was well hydrated.
[SPEAKER_01]: I filled up my water bottles beforehand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Had my coffee took, you know, in my reusable coffee cup beforehand.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I will say, when you're road tripping, this is a theme.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're living with or doing activities with other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the hardest part is even when you are super aware of your plastic use, it's hard to like impose that on other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I mean, the first stop we made, you know, it was really hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my road trip buddy went into the gas station and came out with, you know, a big plastic water bottle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just not even thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was, I mean, I didn't like established ground rules or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I was like, oh, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like does he know?
[SPEAKER_01]: I filled up two huge water bottles.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think he really just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those water bottles look so good in the refrigerator when you're in the store.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I had a dog with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he immediately was like, oh, here, now I hear some water.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a big thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But other than that, I would say because of the time and the distance, we didn't have too many issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so glad you bring that up because I came up with a term for this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it really applies to what I did this week or what we did this week is called your co-consumer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Your co-consumer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's the person, you know, that you live with and share space with.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be like, you know, a roommate, a spouse, partner, whatever, but whatever, it's a person that you are consuming things together with.
[SPEAKER_02]: And traveling companion is a perfect example about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that leads into what?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what did this?
[SPEAKER_02]: What plastic issues did you have this week?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we tackled the whole thing about the plastic trash bag.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a big one because it's perception out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess the, you know, it's sort of an assumption that plastic is the only thing that will work for your pickup because of the durability of the animals.
[SPEAKER_02]: And someone commented in the Almanac and we put this question out there that their trash pickup service requires plastic bags.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think ours insist on plastic, but somehow your dad and I have never sat down together and tried to come up with another solution.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've just been doing the same thing over and over and I cringe at those huge plastic.
[SPEAKER_02]: contractor bags.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, they'll hold up to being hoisted into the sanitation truck and definitely keep the animals out of the bag when it's out on the curb.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it will also keep out all of the oxygen in the microbes in the landfill so that not only the bag is around for thousands of years, but the contents of the bag also.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really really awful and gross and not fun to talk about and yeah some glad that you guys did you talk about it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we took the opportunity of plastic free July to have the conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just a simple short conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we actually came to a compromise for moving forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll use paper, grocery bags in the kitchen trash.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for the bin outside, we will line it with the contractor bag, but we'll use one of those big paper lawn leaf bags set inside the contractor bag.
[SPEAKER_02]: So unless there's been something really messy or smelly, we'll just set the lawn leaf bag out on the curb.
[SPEAKER_02]: and keep the same contractor bag in the bin for hopefully several weeks, if not months.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's not perfect, but it is at least an improvement and I do feel more at ease about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm wondering why we didn't talk about this before.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just been something that's bugging me, but I felt like it was important to him to make sure the trash was secure outside and
[SPEAKER_02]: Turns out it was just like, yeah, we can try this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So do you think they'll pick up the big brown lawn and leaf bag?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to try it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know their place is that won't take anything but plastic.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if that was our situation, I can't speak for anyone else.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it came up, which it might in my mind, and that's the time for a phone call to register my concern.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would talk to whoever I could get and I would explain our position and ask if we could at least try to see if it causes a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think these things are just like their just policies or rules.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you know, maybe they would just allow it to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's really crazy because this episode coming up that we're about to get into just sparked so many other questions for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like really like gross and depressing things to talk about like trash and landfills.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm curious, and this conversation we're having now about, it just seems so obvious to me, like it's so, if you're carding away these plastic things full of trash that are literally creating more methane, they're dangerous.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they carting off, they bury them, and then they bury these landfills in their dangerous, and they're just so bad, and they're not going anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're taking up prime real estate, oh, I mean, not prime real estate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, it'll all be prime real estate, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want to use those that land that we're using for landfills right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't understand the resistance to like, how can we make things make it easier for things to break down and go away instead of just it's like paying for a storage unit for things that
[SPEAKER_01]: don't need to be stored forever, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that gets into the discussion we have in today's episode with Lauren Olsen of World Centric.
[SPEAKER_02]: About how it's all set up so that the consumer is the one that has to deal with these products out there that are threatening to our health and environment and contributing to climate change in a very big way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to what extent did these producers need to take responsibility for keeping these things out of the systems?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why when if our pickup service says, we're not going to pick up these paper bags, then and I would call and you know, it's by my concern and even if it didn't get anywhere with my call, if enough people did that,
[SPEAKER_02]: And enough people said, you know, we're not going to pay for your service anymore because we really don't want to put a giant plastic bag in the landfill every week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Things would change.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how change occurs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so even if you don't have a solution immediately, at least you've done your part.
[SPEAKER_02]: And number one, thinking about it, number two, taking action about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess before all that, even try to minimize your own waste.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's crazy to think about it, but waste management is truly, in many places, it's the private service.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's something that we pay for.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, like anything else you pay for, if it's an unsatisfactory service, you're not going to pay for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have power is right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: With something like trash pick up though, it can feel very much like you don't have any power because it's like this big thing in this, you know, what else are you supposed to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is a private service here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do feel like I could get on the phone with somebody and at least express my concern.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the case where it's a county or some sort of municipality service that's paid for with your taxes, then there might be another angle on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always an angle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but the point is that you have you do have power as the consumer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and though it's hard to think of us as consuming a trash pickup service is what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're paying for it and one way or another.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so this was a really fascinating and enlightening discussion with Lauren from
[SPEAKER_01]: World Centric, she represents a company.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're unfamiliar with World Centric, they make really high-quality, certified, compostable service, food service, like takeout containers and color-y and cups.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can find them at our local Whole Foods or grocery store that has compostable options in the lake in the single-use aisle.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a company, they also strive to be a model of sustainability by supporting grassroots organizations and nonprofits via product and monetary donations, encouraging fair wages, ensuring proper working conditions in their manufacturing facilities and powering their office using renewable energy.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are a really cool company and they've supported Lady Farmer in the past and we love using them personally for when we do need to resort to single use items and we hope that you enjoy this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we talk a lot of nitty gritty specifics and details in this episode and we really learned a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: So get ready.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have any questions or anything else to add to this discussion and share listening, again, we'd love to hear from you, the GoodDirt podcast at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be chatting about this issue, specifically all through July, but we do talk about these things a lot at Lady Farmer.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for being here and for having these conversations and enjoy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome Lauren.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're so excited to be chatting with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love world's and trick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always reach for the world's centric box on the shelf at Whole Foods.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will say that my favorite little store, a few towns over like outside the city, she just started serving coffee in her little antique store.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she has the world's centric like entirely compostable coffee to go mugs like top included.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that makes me happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, welcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad you're here.
[UNKNOWN]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just want to chat with you a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to hear personally from you about your own personal story and how you got started working in this field and with world centric and then maybe a little bit to about the company and what y'all do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm Lauren and I am the zero waste manager at World Centric.
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically, I do a lot of this sustainability type stuff and the certifications and try to keep everything on track in terms of continuing to be the most sustainable and forward thinking, tempoestable product company.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we make all compostable, so in commercial composting systems anyway, food service wear.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all of your
[SPEAKER_00]: hot cups for your coffee, your lids, coloring your bowls plates, clamshells we call them, but those are those take out boxes that you get that now you'll only see them as a clamshell.
[SPEAKER_00]: All things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So can you tell us a little bit more about what that you said industrial compostable what that means?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's like a different system than like your home composting system.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that means that it goes to like maybe your municipal recycling area might have one, but it's managed by someone who knows how to compost and there's like a lot of material and that large amount of material that volume is necessary in order to get to the heat level that's needed for the thermophilic, which is like the bacteria that love heat.
[SPEAKER_00]: to come about that from breakdown bioplastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it has to be about a hundred and forty degrees Fahrenheit in those piles for those bacteria and microbes to come up and really digest that plastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why if you can compost a whole bunch of our stop at home, but you might not get that quick of results or might not get that great of a results.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we do have bioplastic scrap bags for your food scraps and those are certified home compostable, which means the compost in a lower temperature environment over a longer period of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Lauren, tell us how you got here and how you got interested in this field and how you ended up in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: To be honest, I did just like randomly apply for the job.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was working in Michigan at the time or a nonprofit called the Ecology Center and I was looking at toxic chemicals and consumer products and hazardous chemicals, chemicals of concern and something that I'd become aware of is chemicals that are fluorinated in
[SPEAKER_00]: composable food service where.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's when I started hearing about world centric and their efforts, I'm trying to remove it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I saw the job and randomly applied and to my surprise, they interviewed and hired me, but I bring with me that the experience working in hazardous chemicals and consumer testing and then prior to that, I worked more on zero waste events and feeling consulting with which ill recovery facilities to help them becomes more zero waste.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then even prior to that, I worked at a large university in campus sustainability, looking at how I could help move the university forward in different aspects, including waste and recycling.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was on the zero waste club at college, but after all the concerts, like picking up cans with my friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was one of the first years, I think that my college even had that program.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we were calling it zero waste back then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or what it was, but people thought we were crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, why are you in up these cans?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, they're not going to be recycled.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just going to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe it was a registered sign.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel you girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so how I got into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was working on recycling issues when I was in college because
[SPEAKER_00]: My university didn't have a comprehensive recycling program.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very like sort of ad hoc, like you might see a white paper bin, some places are mixed office paper, but we didn't have like metal or glass or plastic recycling and so really lobbying the university to try to get that program beef dub.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I worked on that, a lot of the activists when I was in college and actually did my masters work on how to communicate about recycling due to that work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to ask a little bit about the term zero waste.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody knows what that means.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I have to throw anything away.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, it's a little bit of conflict there because you can't be zero waste.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just really frustrating.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how did that term come about and not that we shouldn't use it?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just how can we frame it so that it doesn't seem like impossible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's sort of a moonshot sort of goal, right, the zero waste, you know, that we're saying, oh, eventually we'd like to be zero ways like all ways would equal food for something else either in the composting system or.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, food is in like a feedstock to become a new product.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really aspirational at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Zero waste and I think that's where I can get a little frustrating because then you see all these barriers in the institutions in our lives that sort of are impediments to creating a more of a zero waste society, whether that be like our time, convenience, our patchwork of waste management type systems, the markets that we're forced to sell,
[SPEAKER_00]: recycled products on our compost on and you know different laws and regulations as well as inherent values and beliefs about how public money should be spent or how much citizens should be required to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's where it gets very complicated quite quickly just a number of factors that can impede a real zero waste economy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's the term as you like a goal, not as like a should.
[SPEAKER_02]: In other words, it's more of a goal and not something to frustrate us because I know I try really, really hard and I go to great lengths not to buy things in plastic, but constantly, you know, I'm behold, you get this thing that's in a glass jar and you know, you open it up and there's this little plastic, family thing that
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, protecting it or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm always thinking, oh, is there any such thing as they were always?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's something that, you know, I personally like really long for and try really hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like you say, the systems that are in place just really make it really, really difficult.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unless you're going to go way outside and never buy anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: DIY, all your own stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, mess people just really aren't going to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you mentioned like that foil for like food preservation, and then it becomes like this whole other thing where you're talking about, okay, we want food to last longer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're wasting less food, which is a zero waste sort of activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then in that, sometimes you have to create waste, such as a film on top of a, you know, mayonnaise jar or whatever, in order to ensure that that food can stay around longer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, too, you can be totally zero waste or are those Instagram people who are completely zero waste, but, you know, for most of us, that's just not something that we can prioritize because that really requires you to get off the normal sort of consumption patterns, which
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's totally something that people can do, but I just recognize that a lot of us are have a lot of different stressors, and are just trying to, you know, get through on day to day, and it's just not possible to do that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But much respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just good to remind people that that zero, it's an aspirational thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not like a shaming thing like if you're not doing that or if you have to buy this plastic product or and you know if you live in a household multiple people people are going to have different consumer habits and different opinions on this so it's just all over the place but it's a good discussion of course and company stores that are in the position of actually producing the goods to help people along with this like you're going to have a gathering
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are options and that's just a really, really great start.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, especially for events and things like that, like you said, you know, you used to go to Whole Foods and buy our products, but you know, if you were to have like a socially distance picnic, for example, it would be easier just to have the compostable food service where rather than, you know, having plates and then possibly touching them and feeling a little weird about that and having to, I don't know, it was just
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I just go easier to just collect all the food waste and collect the compostables and call it a day in terms of what you can do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this plastic cups that you all have are those the industrial compressible things you were just speaking about that take on special equipment and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so all of our products are designed to be composted in industrial or commercial composting facilities rather than home composting facilities.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, that doesn't mean you can't compost them at home, but that's what they're designed for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And particularly the items that contain any sort of bioplastic, so that's how electric acid PLA that might be like a clear cop that you would see that would be compostable.
[SPEAKER_02]: So tell me about bioplastics.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have a background in like the whole chemical of concern thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how are bioplastics not that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you know bioplastics they can mean two different things either it's from biogenic sources which means that it's from a source that's not petroleum or natural gas or that it's bio degradable just so you know bioplastics can mean both whether.
[SPEAKER_00]: But our particular bioplastics that we mostly use are from PLA polylactic acid which comes from corn for example.
[SPEAKER_00]: nature works as from the largest producers of this material.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it comes from number two dent core brown in the midwest and then they are able to refine it into a polymer and we're able to utilize that polymer for cool cups as well as like linings of like your coffee cups, colorary, the lids, all different types of ways that it's able to be used.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the big reason why there's a push for bioplastics or plastics that come from plants is just not using petroleum and natural gas and everything that goes along with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the plastic industry is just so polluting, especially for the fence line communities that have to live next to these plastic refining plants.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really interesting too once you get into the details of why we have so much petroleum based plastic or fossil fuel based plastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really because it's a leftover byproduct of the oil refinement process.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a way to really dump that byproduct onto the consumer for them to deal with it rather than just not mining it or extracting it in the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, so the polymer, is it mostly corn or is it like corn and something or is it just all corn?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it depends on like where you're buying it from, but yeah, like nature works, they make theirs from corn.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like a part of the corn kernel in particular has the correct structure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and is the corn is grown specifically for this or is it like a bi-product of something?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it like feed corn and some of it goes to
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's like one of those things where they take the corn and they make a full bunch of different stuff out of it corn starch and all different types of products and lactic acid just happens to be one of the products and then they polymerize that into make it into polylactic acid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so are the biologists clean?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, are there any concerning substance?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in the production of them are as an after product.
[SPEAKER_02]: of it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, not that we know of, I think one of the major plastic products to be really concerned about is styrene, like polystyrene or expanded polystyrene, because styrene itself is a carcinogen and there's just a lot of issues involved in styrene production as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would probably be the petroleum plastic, I would be the most concerned about using.
[SPEAKER_00]: What contains styrene?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like oftentimes they're called styrofoam, but it's not actually styrofoam.
[SPEAKER_00]: Styrofoam is a different material, but that would be like your styrofoam, what it quote unquote containers from like takeoutware or cops or things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be expanded polystyrene technically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's polystyrene that is used to make like coloring is one or also you might see it as like a black plastic takeout container.
[SPEAKER_00]: that might be polystyrene as well, but it also could be polyurethane.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you really need to check or probably probably.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how do you check is it on the box?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it shouldn't be on there in terms of the number.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think polystyrene is six.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so polystyrene is number six plastic so you might see that on there and then poly propylene would be number five and it can look similar but expanded polystyrene you definitely know what that looks like because that's like that white styrofoam quote-unquote looking thing okay so say someone has
[SPEAKER_01]: whether they're world-centric, compostable, colorary products, or another brand, and they don't have access to an industrial composter.
[SPEAKER_01]: What should they do with it if they throw it away?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, tell us about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's a hard to nundrum that we face on a daily basis, just because of the patchwork of waste management in this country.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of the major issues facing even if you have a commercial composer is that when the USDA was creating the organic laws.
[SPEAKER_00]: called the National Organic Program.
[SPEAKER_00]: Back in the nineties, they decided that bioplastic was a synthetic feedstock and violated organic standards.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when these composters are wanting to create organic compost because that's just a higher price than non organic compost, they're unable to accept bioplastics.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you might have a compost or nearby, but they might not want it because they're trying to get the most
[SPEAKER_00]: money return on their investment by selling only organic compost.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a very difficult position that we are in right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like we have the product, but we're not large enough for market share to really influence the whole commercial composting.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do feel like it will get there eventually, but we're in like a really kind of tough spot right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we understand both that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like trying to make clothes out of hemp, it feels similar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think now hemp can be grown the United States before it was like, well, you can't even grow it here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even though it's grown and it's available, then it's like you can't process it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you have the processing, it's, I've learned so much from this doing this the past few years about just like how markets and how complicated the chain and the cause and effect and all of those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so tricky to be like, yes, we have this product that is compostable if you do it the right way and it's kind of hard to do it that right way, but it's still like such an important part of the puzzle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, unfortunately, it's like in some markets, some areas, you know, it has to be landfill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not able to be composted, like the composters are going to take it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have a composter.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not convenient.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have commercial, they don't have commercial pickup or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So unfortunately, it has to be landfill.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I feel better about it because the beginning of life is so much better than supporting petroleum and natural gas extraction industry and also knowing that a lot of plastic based food service where is also landfill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it's contaminated with food and once that stuff is contaminated with food, a lot of recyclers are just going to throw it away because they don't have washing facilities at their material recovery facility and the way things are going with recycling market, you have to have really clean and pure streams.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very difficult for them to take
[SPEAKER_00]: food service where it has any sort of food on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not to say it's not impossible, it's not to say the summer and doing it, but I would highly doubt that a lot of recyclers are now able to handle that material.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of that's based on how China has really cracked down on what they're willing to accept.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure you guys know about this because it's over ten years old, you know, then putting in laws in place that say, you know, we only want the cleanest and pureest dreams because we're tired of dealing with basically trash.
[SPEAKER_00]: including it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I totally get where China is coming from in terms of putting in those regulations, but I mean, now it's kind of at a bad point because we're seeing other countries in Southeast Asia and taking that material and they don't have maybe the best facilities or regulations to really deal with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's becoming a problem in other different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of it ends up
[SPEAKER_02]: actually in the landfill because it's contaminated with food or people don't have a place to take it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So do these things, the corn based utensils and the paper things, are they going to break down better even in the landfill than the other stuff like the like star fun bowls and cups and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, polymers are always considered more inner than anything else that you might put in the landfill.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anything is polymerized, so any sort of plastic, whether it's bioplastic or petroleum-based plastic is probably not going to ever disintegrate.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to keep in mind that landfills are coffins for waste.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are built to store.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not built to refine or change that waste into something else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there are landfills that are like waste to energy where they utilize a methane that the bacteria are partying out and burn it to create CO-II and make, you know, a quote unquote, green energy from that, but they're not designed to be energy producing facilities that's anaerobic digestion, which is, you know, designed to make energy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there's been some studies where mostly from this one archaeologist in New Mexico and he dug up some landfill waste, which is difficult to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of landfills, you know, they don't want their landfill mess with because you can really deteriorate the structural integrity.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he found, for example, like a hot dog next to a newspaper and it was like fifty years old, you know, and it's still read the newspaper.
[SPEAKER_00]: So honestly, we have like no real idea how long it takes things to degrade by these methane generating bacteria that live in landfills, because there's no oxygen.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no sunlight, because a lot of them are covered every night because they're sanitary landfills.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess we'll find out how quickly things degrade when we have to actually start mining landfills for waste and some sort of weird dystopian future that help them not around for.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but I don't think that we really know what is going on in them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have looked into testing for that to figure out if we could simulate a landfill environment.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it gets really complicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I get a lot of questions regarding, you know, how long does it take for these things to degree in the landfill?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in general, you just have to assume that everything that goes in landfill is going to live there forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if it's, yeah, like a hot dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of people think that it's okay to throw away food because it's going to break down, but maybe start looking into it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the food is a huge problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Food waste and landfill because food waste is more bio-available for these methane bacteria to eat on generating bacteria.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so food waste is a big contributing in landfills is a contributing factor to a climate change.
[SPEAKER_00]: because we have methane generated from these landfills.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anything you do to keep food waste out of the landfill is for the benefit of the planet, but I know it's difficult, you know, things happen, your refrigerator gets away from you, you find some things in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's why having access to commercial composting is such a big problem right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So is that something also, I would imagine that world-centric is involved in, is this sort of like policy around, I mean, because it would benefit you guys to have the rest of this market really developed out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you guys do work on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: We do some work on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have sort of a trade organization at the bottom-gradable products Institute, and there are also our certifier.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they certify things as composable products, and they have, you know, lobbyists, and we work on legislation,
[SPEAKER_00]: And additionally, we help different groups reach out to us or what have you, in fact, on our website, I have a letter that you can plagiarize and use to send to your municipality or your comp poster talking about how you would like to see compulsory foods and risk wear accepted.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of times, there'll be some resistance to accepting new things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Might just be inertia, might be the organic standard that we talked about money, time, worries about contamination,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a very legitimate concerns, but in the end, if you can make your voice known as a citizen, you can have a great amount of power over how those decisions are made.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you sort of started answering my next question too, which is like, what are the bigger issues here that we can ask citizens be more vocal about?
[SPEAKER_01]: And what should we be thinking about as far as individuals we can't necessarily sit and think our way out of this patchwork waste management issue?
[SPEAKER_01]: that you've stated so I love that phrasing of it but what should it look like and what should we be doing more of what's your personal perspective on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you know getting in on the when things are getting up and running so like for example if you hear about ways contract
[SPEAKER_00]: being free negotiated or up for bid.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where you can step in as a citizen and say, hey, you know, we need to find a waste holler that can pick up all of my different composable materials, all of my recyclable materials and additions my trash like it's not just about the bottom line of being able to pick up that trash.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we need these other strings because it's important to me, it's important for the community.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's important to elongate the life of our landfill so that we want to dig up new landfill space by trying to compost and recycle as much of it as possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's becoming a big issue in New England.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, a lot of those states like Vermont and Massachusetts, they're putting together food waste bills that require food waste to be delivered from landfill just because they don't have the space to be digging new ground for landfills.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the luxury that they have compared to other states.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, it feels like a really positive thing anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's based on no space to really put systems in place to keep the food waste out of the landfill.
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like a really good thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, mine as well, just you know, utilize all of that, you know, I hate to call it food waste, but you know, all that leftover food for to come food for something else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So do you see a lot of greenwashing in this industry?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you speak to that at all?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like companies making claims about
[SPEAKER_02]: There's zero-wise products or compostable that are really misrepresented.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, there are unfortunately some look for products.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, there's a paperboard type folding container.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it looks like it should be compostable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like crap brown paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then inside it uses a petroleum-based lining.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that is annoying for several reasons because one, like the consumer is like, oh, cool off with this in my compost,
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that poor commercial composter is like, oh, you know, has this like petroleum-based lining this plastic now in their compost that they're trying to create, you know, good, usable product to be a soil amendment and they have that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that can be really frustrating those types of products.
[SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully as industry matures and evolves, you know, people will know to look for these particular certifications.
[SPEAKER_00]: And get things that are actually compostable and not accidentally be doped by a look alike type product.
[SPEAKER_02]: What certifications are we looking for and we'll put this in the Senate so people know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so biodegradable products into BPI that is a key one to look for it in North America and that means that it's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Composable and commercial composting system.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another one you can look for is the compost manufacturer's alliance CMA and they do feel testing to ensure that things compost in different types of commercial composting facilities.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in all, they just have to pass these standardized scientific testing protocols.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the two protocols are ASTM, sixty-four hundred or sixty-eight, sixty-eight.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you might see that on products as well, that they pass these particular scientific tests that ensure that they bow to grade, disintegrate, in a certain amount of time, and that they're good for plants, the plastic, you go to toxicity test, and that they don't have any high metals or chemicals that concern in them.
[SPEAKER_02]: will put a list of these things down on the shinnets, so people can refer to that, definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have a specific question about the hot drink cups.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're always going to have some sort of a little plastic-y-looking liner, and if it's a hot drink cup, yours is made of corn.
[SPEAKER_02]: Others are made of fossil fuels.
[SPEAKER_02]: How can you tell the difference?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have to depend on the, the certification is on the package, or is there another way to tell?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, when the big ways to tell us just whether the cup says compostable or not, that's like a key phrase on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to assume if it doesn't say compostable or have some sort of certification mark that it is made up of using petroleum based plastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, I think there's like very few areas that are actually able to recycle those and separate the paper from the lining.
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of that also, I mean, I'm assuming place it like, so we have a big DC audience in this area and then sure out on California, you guys have like in the same Francisco area, people are a hip to these sorts of things and I'm assuming would have more access
[SPEAKER_01]: to a commercial facility.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how can the consumer know, even if they're buying the world-centric products to use at their home, is it just like they got a Google and figure out where to take their stuff to compost it industrially?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is there many ways to find out where to take your stuff?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the biodegradable products is to just start it up again, a website called find a composter.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there you can put in your zip code and it helps you find a composter near you.
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the ways I suggest you do it is, you know, you should have some idea, hopefully, of like who was picking up your waste and really looking to them and seeing if they offer
[SPEAKER_00]: any sort of guidance they do on their website about what is tempo-stable, what is recyclable, and following those rules to the best of your ability is really key to make the whole system work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because anytime that you just kind of deviate from those, or just sort of be like, oh, I'm going to wish cycle this and hope that it gets taking care of, then you're creating more problems in this system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you go on the our county pickup website,
[SPEAKER_02]: tells you exactly which plastic, which numbers of plastics they will take.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the consumer just needs to really get in the habit of checking that the number corresponds with something they take.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're good, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You can put it in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you kind of assume that it's taken care of properly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But one thing there is sometimes you can't read the things are so tiny, you know, the numbers
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just wonder if that's a way of like a type of greenwashing or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll put the little circles so tiny and you can see the little arrows.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, and if it's plastic, like, clear plastic, you hold it up to the light and you can't see the number.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they just trying to like trick you into thinking it's recycled?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you've received something where you literally cannot read the number that's in there, so you don't know if you can throw it away or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think some items that actually is technical limitations in doing that sort of embossing on the item and so I like to give them that benefit of the doubt that perhaps it's just a difficult item to put that sort of yeah numbering on and then if they were to put like a sticker that had that I mean stickers are never good because they are another material.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel for them in that way and
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we certainly have issues with that ourselves and trying to figure out, you know, how much information can we put on, for example, a piece of bioclassicalery, you know, a fork or a knife or whatever, you know, how do we fit information on there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to look good because in the end, you know, people judge on looks these, you know, these restaurants, they want their stuff to look nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also is going to have a good comfort for the person, you know, you actually have to use that arm to eat with so there's a lot of limitations right now in terms of.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, how much information we can put on there and how to make that usable and readable to the consumer, but also have still at the same time a quality product.
[SPEAKER_01]: These problems are so big and depressing when you think about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just really interested in how you continue on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just feels so insert mountable.
[SPEAKER_01]: like like you work in this every day and I don't know, I think it's pretty easy for most of the population to just wish cycle and like hope it gets taken care of and the people who do know they try and sure they're making a little difference maybe, but like you specifically, how do you?
[SPEAKER_01]: What keeps you going?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, I have some ideas, you know, as soon as I made benevolent dictator, you know, I will enact these ideas, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, I think, you know, we could, I think, come postible products and food service where really is the future as opposed to petroleum, which is just as difficult to recycle to much food waste and you got to rely on these international markets for recycling.
[SPEAKER_00]: watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a whole thing that I think we could deal with locally.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would just love to see, you know, community, some communities have done this actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've said like we only want compostful food service where we're not going to use any sort of petroleum.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a great step.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it would be awesome if we could do things, I'm not even larger scale.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like have like a whole state, for example, say that we're only gonna have compostable coffee lids and cuddly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then composters wouldn't have to worry about petroleum, look like, entering their system.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything would be compostable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it would be like a larger way to make a positive impact on these composters in the issues that they're dealing with.
[SPEAKER_00]: by just doing massive products, which is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think that we need to just figure out how to get into like reusable is on a larger scale.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I've thought a lot about this or so many issues because I'm concerned about, you have to watch these things on high heat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you've got to make sure that they're not petroleum plastics.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried about unpolimized monitors, possibly being released.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're baptized on high heat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you also has to be durable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be leak proof.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want it to have a long life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then you start looking at like metal and then start thinking about the metal mining issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you think about how you have to put a deposit on this and how are you going to track it and how are you going to get those back and
[SPEAKER_00]: It just like spirals had a control, but it would be nice to figure that out and I have like no idea how we're going to figure that out because there's just so many layers of all these different issues in terms of even the logistics.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think compostables are great, but we obviously just can't create single-use products forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't keep using them.
[SPEAKER_00]: We define some way to do, take out in a way that's even more sustainable.
[SPEAKER_02]: And especially this last year when take out skyrocketed, did you feel like the whole thing just took a step backwards, the whole like trending away from single use and trying to make people aware of compressibles over plastics and center, etc.
[SPEAKER_02]: that the whole industry sort of lost ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like in some respects, they did only because like, I know communities that we're thinking about enacting something that was maybe like no styrofoam or all compostable takeout where we're like, you know, restaurants are really struggling right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know if we want to put another burden on them, something that they have to figure out and learn or financial, you know, maybe difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of using compostables as opposed to styrofoam.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although they can be very price comparable in some markets, depending on the quantity you're buying, etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, some companies were hesitant to move forward with those types of ordinances because of the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then additionally with the pandemic, I have seen restaurants go out of business just because they can't make it through because they were lying so much on the in-person
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, market and I think everyone too is kind of tightened up a little bit, do the uncertainty of everything and maybe aren't eating out as much, you know, not going out with friends, obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it has been a difficult time for everyone, but, you know, certainly I've been trying my best to support local restaurants and, you know, part of that is due to laziness.
[SPEAKER_00]: my heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just get so tired of cooking, but also it's good to support local restaurants.
[SPEAKER_00]: They really need our help right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So do you think you've seen an increase in public concern about these issues over the years that you've been doing this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like it's more of a thing for people or is it still largely an unconscious thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be single use things and not worrying about what happens to them once they're done.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've definitely seen more public awareness, but I think it really just depends on the community and what's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always say to people, I feel like life is just so inherently difficult that I totally understand that if take out where, you know, the sustainability of it is not on your radar because you just have so much going on and trying to figure out where your rent is coming from, or et cetera, that you just, you know, there's a lot of people out there who are, you know, going through a lot, especially with COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like those other people are taking a hard look at the things that they're bringing into their home.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're maybe doing take out more.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I am getting, you know, more nuanced questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say smarter questions is the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think people are taking a closer look at like everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us a little bit about world's metrics, twenty-five percent giving programs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we donate twenty five percent of our profits before taxes to nonprofits primarily those focused on basic rights and developing nations such as clean water clean sanitation education.
[SPEAKER_00]: basic things that we all sort of take advantage of without much thinking about that other people are just struggling with.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a great way to give back and we also donate to different organizations.
[SPEAKER_00]: that help with our carbon footprint.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't utilize verified credits because we don't want to siphon off more money that could possibly go to these nonprofits.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's great that we also, in addition to offsetting our carbon, we look at how we can just help people in general in realizing that even though we might be offsetting our carbon, the effects are already
[SPEAKER_00]: happening do that carbon that we created and so as much as we can help people we're trying to do just more than just pay our pens so to speak on the carbon that we're creating.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Lauren what does the good dirt mean to you either literally or metaphorically.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I would say, you know, the good dirt means to me just, you know, looking at how everything that we consider quote unquote waste can become food for something else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the whole cradle to cradle idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it's good dirt because it's good to go back and grow something else.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the whole waste equals food model.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just baffled right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have so little faith in people's ability to properly deal with waste.
[SPEAKER_01]: After this conversation, I'm like, I don't see how people will actually sort things the right way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it has to come from the top.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to stop making the bad stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like in some respects, that's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it would just make things a lot easier in terms of contamination of composting and recycling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If certain products were always made either compostable or recyclable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so much education and like you were saying like access to that knowledge is like hard to find and like it's irresponsible.
[SPEAKER_02]: People have so much to do with and sort through all this and like
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, some of us got a bunch of kids are trying to teach at home or whatever and they're like kind of look up is this plastic thing going to go to the right place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, in terms of your stuff, I can think of the paper bowls and so forth.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I would totally just tear that up and put it in my own home compost.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it would do fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like I tear up mine and put it in my tumblr and it eventually, you know, biodegrades and disintegrates.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would imagine that you probably have better compost than I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got a lot of horse poop in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, see there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're already adding like microbes and all of that stuff and you had to land for it and all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely go for it and it will, it will compost, especially if you take care of your compost pretty well.
[SPEAKER_00]: your home composting.
[SPEAKER_02]: My husband's very very particular about what plastics go in, you know, he knows what the county will take and all that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, it takes a lot of awareness and a lot of consciousness to do it right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, yeah, um, with the UM, this needs to be policy thing from the top down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have a little faith in humanity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and not that is just that it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think just life is too difficult.
[SPEAKER_02]: Insumers aren't going to jump through all those hoops.
[SPEAKER_02]: And not that they don't care.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like what we were talking about last week with Elizabeth Klein.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like ethical, consumerism versus social activism.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we would start a petition or something to our state or to our county and saying,
[SPEAKER_02]: We think only these things should be allowed to take out food containers because and give all the reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like making the way it is now makes the consumers responsible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like making the consumers responsible is a strategy for creating bad waste systems.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what the American Chemistry Council
[SPEAKER_00]: did from the beginning in order to make sure that recycling fail by putting so much weight on the consumers and municipalities and sorting this material that it was set up to fail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I'm mad now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could do a whole other a series on recycling.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole can't orm's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, I feel like sometimes we're too quick to blame ourselves or each other on individual, you know, basis, but it's.
[SPEAKER_00]: so much bigger than that that I think we need to look higher up the food chain and who really is making these decisions and how they can be made in a way that makes it easier for the individual in the consumer to make choices.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that makes the whole thing work better if you're not counting on every single household to do something right when
[SPEAKER_02]: The policy at the beginning is going to make sure it's right all the way down the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just telling your responsibility for what you're making and not pushing it off.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Lauren, is there anything else you want to leave with our audience about the work that you do or world centric or any words of encouragement or anything?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to leave the audience thinking, well, God is just so hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why should I even bother?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the message we do wanna leave with is like, what we do have control over right now is the companies we invest in by purchasing their products.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like if you're gonna buy, single use products by Worldcentric or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, by compostable and you know if you have that favorite restaurant of yours and you notice that they always use styrofoam or plastic, you know, maybe approach them and be like, have you considered a compostable love your restaurant love your food, but I love for this to come in a more sustainable, more health conscious container.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a very good suggestion because.
[SPEAKER_02]: they want their customers to be pleased and to come back.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you express concern about this, then yeah, I think I just listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing you can do is when you're ordering takeout or picking it up, you know, request it without a bag, without utensils, without your sauces and all of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some communities are actually making, you know, ordinances about that by saying everything has to be available on request.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's another way, too, is can petition or ask your city council, township council, whatever it might be to put together an ordinance on a food service where from takeout and say utensils have to be on requests, has to be compostable, no styrofoam, sauces, and everything else has to be on requests.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a whole gamut of different things that you can do and start small.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can start with expanded polystyrene for a styrofoam
[SPEAKER_00]: and try to ban that first and see how that goes and go from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it reminds me of when, I don't know, ten, fifteen years ago, maybe not even that long ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Plastic bags were a thing and then they're like, you get to charge five cents to use the plastic bag.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same with straws, you know, like that used to be like super common and now people don't use straws anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely on request for people that need them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's encouraging.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Lauren, this has been really a treat, and I've learned a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: That really gives us a lot to think about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not the most fun topic to think about, but it's so important, and I find it really fascinating, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's empowering to know what's actually going on instead of just, I feel like labels screaming at you, you know, like the green leaf like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I really took something away from this that really wasn't on my radar before.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's what we were saying about, why do we have to make all these hard decisions?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do.
[SPEAKER_02]: But as we say in the episode,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot to ask and expect every individual on the planet to make the decisions that are going to be the best for the environment and our health and climate change.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why can't we move up the ladder and have some of these things predetermined
[SPEAKER_02]: so that there's much more chance of success down the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, because there's a lack of information.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's impossible to have all the information that you need to make an informed decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I, so many things from this episode about actually, you know, what composting involves and what a can and cannot happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then I learned so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us know email us the good dirt podcast at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: Follow us on social, keep this conversation going.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to know what you've learned and what you're doing if you feel inclined to do anything moving forward or how this is changing.
[SPEAKER_01]: your own behavior, what you think we should do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And please continue to tell us what your issues are that you have a hard time solving in your own household.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because until things change at the top, we will keep doing our best in our own situations.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, what we can do is as consumers and our co-consumers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that word, Mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: What can we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good place to start.
[SPEAKER_01]: The people you're living with.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy your week and we'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're here every Friday.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're not following us yet on Instagram, we are a lady farmer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Send up for a newsletter.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got a private online community called the Almanac.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not currently open for a moment, but we will be soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks for being here.
[SPEAKER_01]: See you next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye.