WEBVTT 00:00.031 --> 00:07.838 [SPEAKER_00]: some of us were servers, some of us was teachers and we just every area of the Sunday will meet and then that would just motivate each other. 00:07.858 --> 00:20.949 [SPEAKER_00]: And so at the time we didn't know what we're doing but now looking back all of us kind of have like all engineers, some of us are architects now and we just all had a passion and we just stay, create it, can I believe for each other? 00:21.210 --> 00:23.592 [SPEAKER_00]: It's different options and try to find 00:24.532 --> 00:28.195 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a, hey, you know, can I work here, can I put a website for you for free? 00:28.595 --> 00:34.860 [SPEAKER_00]: Just so that way because I knew that about working, you got to have someone in your resume and the one who's going to hire you, you don't have any experience. 00:35.381 --> 00:36.942 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I think A.S. 00:36.962 --> 00:44.607 [SPEAKER_00]: going to take out more of the junior level roles jobs and those people who are junior level roles will have to basically learn a lot more in 00:45.728 --> 00:47.029 [SPEAKER_00]: find a niche that they're really good at. 00:47.089 --> 00:50.311 [SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I was like, man, is this, I was like, no, what? 00:50.671 --> 00:51.252 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just me. 00:51.452 --> 00:52.413 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing a better myself. 00:52.813 --> 00:57.676 [SPEAKER_00]: And I went, oh, my car, no breaking down, breaking down here and there and I went. 00:58.176 --> 00:59.757 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was probably the best experience there. 00:59.797 --> 01:00.718 [SPEAKER_00]: I met a lot of people. 01:01.098 --> 01:02.719 [SPEAKER_00]: I had this car, and I was just selling myself. 01:02.799 --> 01:05.241 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, hey, this is what my name's got, Lee, this is who I am. 01:05.821 --> 01:10.785 [SPEAKER_00]: And then three days later, I got a, this guy didn't flag, call me, and I was like, hey, you want to bring you one for a job. 01:11.625 --> 01:13.527 [SPEAKER_00]: And that gave me the, 01:14.347 --> 01:22.345 [SPEAKER_00]: The most like it was for me was that for me at the time was that big break was like okay, I got higher for something that I just taught myself 01:25.498 --> 01:28.560 [SPEAKER_01]: Look, you probably have a security class, maybe even a security clearance. 01:28.580 --> 01:30.621 [SPEAKER_01]: So nobody taught you how to write poems. 01:30.801 --> 01:32.342 [SPEAKER_01]: Or how to test a security control. 01:32.622 --> 01:34.003 [SPEAKER_01]: Or submit an ATO package. 01:34.243 --> 01:36.104 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Chris Akpala, a few years ago. 01:36.124 --> 01:37.544 [SPEAKER_01]: I was in your shoes. 01:37.965 --> 01:41.447 [SPEAKER_01]: Qualified on paper, but completely lost when it came to our left. 01:41.607 --> 01:42.387 [SPEAKER_01]: I had the degree. 01:42.767 --> 01:43.468 [SPEAKER_01]: I had the search. 01:43.548 --> 01:44.368 [SPEAKER_01]: I had the drive. 01:44.768 --> 01:51.372 [SPEAKER_01]: And when somebody said how to test the AC-II control or validate stick finance, I had no clue what that actually looked like. 01:51.672 --> 01:59.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Fast-forward five years, I worked across DOD and federal agencies, land control assessments, rain ATO package, and past artists. 01:59.779 --> 02:03.962 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I built our math academy to teach you the real-world execution. 02:04.302 --> 02:06.244 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't cover in certification books. 02:06.904 --> 02:08.926 [SPEAKER_01]: Inside, I'll show you how to write a poem. 02:09.226 --> 02:10.247 [SPEAKER_01]: And don't get fast back. 02:10.908 --> 02:12.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Test and validate security controls. 02:13.009 --> 02:14.230 [SPEAKER_01]: Translate tech jargon. 02:14.771 --> 02:16.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Navigate niss, eight hundred fifty-three. 02:17.513 --> 02:18.735 [SPEAKER_01]: and RMF with confidence. 02:19.095 --> 02:23.842 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're in IT support in the government systems or stuck on the edge of sub security, this is your way. 02:24.323 --> 02:30.872 [SPEAKER_01]: The people who go through my training don't just get hired, they hit the ground running because they practice the work before they win. 02:31.353 --> 02:34.257 [SPEAKER_01]: Go to RMF Academy.io and let's get the work. 02:34.709 --> 02:37.750 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome everybody to another edition of the Tech World Podcast. 02:37.830 --> 02:42.032 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Chris, a cybersecurity specialist inside the Gov Tech space. 02:42.472 --> 02:49.355 [SPEAKER_01]: And today's podcast, we're going to be interviewing the great guy, no, we came friends over a long period of time, building up the relationship. 02:50.195 --> 02:54.019 [SPEAKER_01]: We met him at a Trabahive and it was a diverse attack in Philly. 02:54.980 --> 02:57.742 [SPEAKER_01]: He's one of the most interesting stories I've talked to. 02:58.143 --> 03:00.905 [SPEAKER_01]: This guy is a self-taught software engineer. 03:01.306 --> 03:03.768 [SPEAKER_01]: He's the founder of Black Tech Connect. 03:04.508 --> 03:11.595 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been doing a lot of things to help Black people get into the tech space and without further ado, Khalif Cooper, how are you doing brother? 03:11.935 --> 03:12.356 [SPEAKER_01]: Doing great. 03:12.914 --> 03:16.657 [SPEAKER_01]: Not so clearly, we know we've been connected for a very long time. 03:16.717 --> 03:18.679 [SPEAKER_01]: I met you at the verse attack. 03:18.719 --> 03:20.921 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we just first, you know, we just start talking. 03:21.281 --> 03:24.924 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember, and one thing I did noticed about you that that time, you had a great personality. 03:24.944 --> 03:30.128 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just talking about, I think he was telling me you were going to car max, who was talking to some other software engineers. 03:30.749 --> 03:33.611 [SPEAKER_01]: And you was always telling me about all the things that you've done. 03:33.631 --> 03:37.655 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll talk engineer, you know, a runner, improv, 03:38.115 --> 03:40.496 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I've been seeing you blowing up in Baltimore lately. 03:40.676 --> 03:42.377 [SPEAKER_01]: You did too far events recently. 03:42.397 --> 03:43.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Wanted to impact hub. 03:44.078 --> 03:45.439 [SPEAKER_01]: I think another one you just did. 03:45.799 --> 03:48.220 [SPEAKER_01]: Now in Baltimore, we had over almost a hundred people there. 03:48.240 --> 03:51.802 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, man, I gotta get, we gotta let the audience know who you are. 03:51.882 --> 03:53.743 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I'm glad for you coming to broadcast. 03:53.964 --> 03:54.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you. 03:54.524 --> 03:54.784 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 03:54.824 --> 03:55.664 [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate it. 03:55.704 --> 03:57.525 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, appreciate it too. 03:57.545 --> 03:58.726 [SPEAKER_01]: So how's your Sunday going on? 03:58.926 --> 03:59.466 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm great. 03:59.486 --> 04:00.587 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually call it really great. 04:00.827 --> 04:02.368 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, good weather outside. 04:02.388 --> 04:03.309 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's gone pretty good. 04:03.649 --> 04:04.069 [SPEAKER_00]: It can play in. 04:04.323 --> 04:04.984 [SPEAKER_01]: What did you do? 04:05.144 --> 04:06.785 [SPEAKER_01]: You just go out just reminds of marines? 04:07.065 --> 04:08.826 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I did that when I for a little walk today. 04:09.006 --> 04:10.928 [SPEAKER_00]: No watch some watch no watch movie. 04:11.208 --> 04:12.108 [SPEAKER_00]: I got a trip like day. 04:12.369 --> 04:13.389 [SPEAKER_01]: Not failure, you're failure. 04:13.850 --> 04:17.072 [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, so could leave um, just to kind of know your story. 04:17.112 --> 04:22.376 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I know your story, but uh, tell me about a little bit of your story kind of like in the high school, like high school. 04:22.416 --> 04:23.697 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you always in to tech? 04:23.917 --> 04:25.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you always into entrepreneurship? 04:25.958 --> 04:27.799 [SPEAKER_01]: How was it like in high school? 04:28.580 --> 04:30.902 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, actually in high school, I'd see what the theater kid I am. 04:31.640 --> 04:43.686 [SPEAKER_00]: I got, actually, I want, so I wanted it when I was younger, I wanted to be a chef and then I figured out the notice chef has kind of a expensive and then I end up, end up going to take cooking classes. 04:44.106 --> 04:48.709 [SPEAKER_00]: So I took cooking classes but also did theater, I really needed to theater and I wanted to become a plea right. 04:49.429 --> 04:57.774 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you always wanted to use it at theater, so like you want to be like on the big TV shows, like a marble, dim types, or you just want to just be on like a play on stages. 04:58.964 --> 05:05.008 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I started, I guess I wanted to start out one of the being an actor, but then I got to read more about August Wilson. 05:05.028 --> 05:06.569 [SPEAKER_00]: So August was just like my favorite playwright. 05:07.089 --> 05:11.873 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, oh man, I can make money being writing the TV shows instead of just acting in them. 05:12.993 --> 05:14.074 [SPEAKER_01]: But she's going to be a writer. 05:14.314 --> 05:14.774 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes. 05:15.275 --> 05:15.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 05:15.615 --> 05:18.317 [SPEAKER_01]: So you was just always in today and used Manning to improv. 05:18.337 --> 05:19.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what type of acting was you into? 05:19.898 --> 05:20.178 [SPEAKER_01]: Like. 05:20.919 --> 05:24.761 [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't, I didn't, yeah, I done it some improv on in high school. 05:26.082 --> 05:27.563 [SPEAKER_00]: And I did it some acting as well. 05:28.118 --> 05:34.504 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you are, so you're interacting and you move on to go to college. 05:34.564 --> 05:36.525 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you go to college, was you into tech? 05:36.686 --> 05:38.167 [SPEAKER_01]: Was you doing theater? 05:38.207 --> 05:39.248 [SPEAKER_01]: Was you doing in college? 05:39.628 --> 05:44.372 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so because I wasn't that great at the academic part. 05:44.433 --> 05:47.095 [SPEAKER_00]: So I actually end up going to do theater there. 05:47.495 --> 05:51.138 [SPEAKER_00]: But I did want to go and to do computers as well. 05:51.999 --> 05:52.940 [SPEAKER_00]: But I end up just doing 05:54.141 --> 05:56.181 [SPEAKER_00]: actually kind of doing a minor into learning. 05:56.401 --> 05:59.962 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a couple classes in coding when I was there, but I kind of focused on theater. 06:00.582 --> 06:06.643 [SPEAKER_00]: And I did more of the, like, and continued to do the playwright, because it was easier at the time, and it was still fun. 06:07.183 --> 06:08.223 [SPEAKER_00]: So I focused there. 06:08.804 --> 06:15.025 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, so you're doing this theater at a playwright, and you did some coding, but you didn't really dive into it. 06:15.205 --> 06:15.445 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 06:15.545 --> 06:20.766 [SPEAKER_01]: So he was like, so like, you finished your program, like, did you, did you get into theater? 06:21.426 --> 06:22.566 [SPEAKER_01]: Or was there any money in it? 06:22.626 --> 06:23.326 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do that work? 06:24.152 --> 06:24.913 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, no, no. 06:24.953 --> 06:26.674 [SPEAKER_00]: I did, at the time, I did purely for fun. 06:27.654 --> 06:31.176 [SPEAKER_00]: I did, when I was there, I did write some of my own plays. 06:31.297 --> 06:35.539 [SPEAKER_00]: I was in a working with like, I'm like, you watch like, no script, I said no script. 06:35.959 --> 06:36.900 [SPEAKER_00]: Scraves of the TV show. 06:36.960 --> 06:39.782 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to write in a play for Scraves. 06:40.002 --> 06:40.602 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing? 06:41.002 --> 07:02.410 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, uh, not far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, 07:03.282 --> 07:05.583 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, after school, I did a twist. 07:05.763 --> 07:08.504 [SPEAKER_00]: So I found out that we're going to play right. 07:08.744 --> 07:09.584 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't make a lot of money. 07:09.684 --> 07:14.345 [SPEAKER_00]: So I ended up doing the summers and when I was in school, I did, I will go to summer camps. 07:14.746 --> 07:16.806 [SPEAKER_00]: They just try, I will go to Colorado every summer. 07:17.306 --> 07:22.368 [SPEAKER_00]: So I ended up taking the job in Illinois as a program coordinator and I work with kids. 07:22.719 --> 07:23.759 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, he just worked with kids. 07:23.819 --> 07:25.720 [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, to act in and work out. 07:25.840 --> 07:26.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can. 07:26.340 --> 07:27.961 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you had to find somewhere to make some money. 07:28.181 --> 07:30.301 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's how I'd be like, I wanted to go. 07:30.321 --> 07:32.222 [SPEAKER_01]: When I went to school, I wanted to measure in biology. 07:32.602 --> 07:35.423 [SPEAKER_01]: But my father said this day, he said, what are you going to do with that? 07:35.843 --> 07:39.884 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think God for saving me, because I was like, I don't know if I really want to become a doctor. 07:40.625 --> 07:42.865 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, if there's no money, you got to pivot. 07:42.905 --> 07:43.806 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you went to Colorado. 07:43.826 --> 07:44.726 [SPEAKER_01]: You went to Colorado. 07:44.826 --> 07:46.466 [SPEAKER_01]: You went to Illinois. 07:46.627 --> 07:47.667 [SPEAKER_01]: You've been traveling, man. 07:47.787 --> 07:49.988 [SPEAKER_01]: You just hop up in, well, you're couch serving, or. 07:51.433 --> 07:57.979 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I just want to, um, like, I've never, uh, so I didn't know any, uh, piano, I didn't know any of, like, that went to Colorado. 07:58.059 --> 08:00.821 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, you know, I'm, uh, we didn't try as much. 08:00.901 --> 08:05.385 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, you know, I want to, I don't know anybody in Colorado when I went out there. 08:05.405 --> 08:06.946 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, man, I'm only back from here. 08:07.186 --> 08:09.788 [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, I went on to see new heights. 08:09.828 --> 08:13.752 [SPEAKER_00]: So when I went there when I went to Colorado, I also got to, like, try and things. 08:14.192 --> 08:17.495 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just loved the fact that just traveling, trying things that I haven't done before. 08:17.853 --> 08:19.194 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you working with kids. 08:20.094 --> 08:28.038 [SPEAKER_01]: So you did all that, you did dabble in the place, you dabble in working with kids, like what sparks your transition they get into tech? 08:28.518 --> 08:29.418 [SPEAKER_00]: So it would help me. 08:29.678 --> 08:35.021 [SPEAKER_00]: So I always say that like theater and me traveling and trying new things, I always been curious. 08:35.381 --> 08:43.304 [SPEAKER_00]: So the idea of being constantly curious helped me get to tech because when I came, when I came back from Colorado at the college, I didn't know what I want to do. 08:43.544 --> 08:43.905 [SPEAKER_00]: And one, 08:45.025 --> 08:51.168 [SPEAKER_00]: and how a guy even got into that I was, once it was conference, which was like a Rebound Rail Conference in the twenty fifteen. 08:51.829 --> 09:00.573 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was because I was so curious about the traveling and trying new things that picked my interest and from there that kind of got my launch into the tech. 09:01.559 --> 09:06.542 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I know conferences definitely help because like I didn't even know there was conferences so I almost hit thirty. 09:07.182 --> 09:09.963 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like twenty seven twenty eight and that's my star exploring car. 09:09.983 --> 09:10.944 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they expensive too. 09:10.984 --> 09:17.607 [SPEAKER_01]: So now bet you who's talking to all these amazing people in a lot of people that don't know Ruby and Rails is a program in language. 09:18.108 --> 09:20.529 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you see all these people doing that, I think that's for web, right? 09:20.849 --> 09:21.830 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a web program there. 09:21.850 --> 09:23.791 [SPEAKER_01]: So I know it kind of sparked your interest. 09:23.831 --> 09:30.094 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, and then you had to use in an environment to help you also you learn that and use like, I want to be a software engineer. 09:30.553 --> 09:31.094 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes. 09:31.214 --> 09:42.565 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I just, I just seen, I actually was working as a server, I used to work for as a bank or server, and I would just add the conference, and I just seen all these people when I just like, you know what? 09:43.446 --> 09:49.512 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I like, I was there had internet from Hulu, Square, and I just really, was like that a lot. 09:49.612 --> 09:50.953 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wouldn't just talk myself. 09:51.474 --> 09:52.615 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, did a money motivated you? 09:53.438 --> 09:54.240 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, not the time. 09:54.260 --> 09:56.183 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the fact that what motivated me. 09:56.524 --> 10:01.913 [SPEAKER_00]: I need a money, but what motivated me at the time was the fact that they're doing something that I want to do. 10:02.013 --> 10:05.079 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really at the time, I still had that small interest of being into tick. 10:05.640 --> 10:06.862 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just wanted to draw something different. 10:07.095 --> 10:08.216 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because that's what motivated me. 10:08.276 --> 10:09.937 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, man, I get some money out here, man. 10:10.538 --> 10:21.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I said, man, these people, when I started seeing all these, uh, black people or people who just in general just paying on these, going on these trips, I was like, man, and money, I was like, I need that money, but the money don't keep you there. 10:21.367 --> 10:22.307 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to still learn. 10:22.347 --> 10:23.488 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah. 10:23.809 --> 10:25.170 [SPEAKER_01]: So, like, what was that process? 10:25.230 --> 10:28.012 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you went through with the server, the Ruby on Wales. 10:28.893 --> 10:30.834 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you, it kind of motivated you like, 10:31.735 --> 10:40.038 [SPEAKER_01]: So did you pick what type of software engineer do you want to be like front in, backing, web app or app like what did you pick? 10:40.599 --> 10:43.040 [SPEAKER_00]: So I see in the government mostly JavaScript. 10:43.480 --> 10:47.721 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought the time JavaScript was like, that's one react day. 10:47.741 --> 10:49.302 [SPEAKER_00]: So react day is like a framework. 10:50.122 --> 10:50.242 [SPEAKER_00]: None. 10:50.303 --> 10:52.543 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really, really popular by the time it was twenty fifteen. 10:52.603 --> 10:53.364 [SPEAKER_00]: It just came out. 10:53.784 --> 10:59.066 [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of did that and I'm glad I went with that because now, react is used everywhere. 10:59.346 --> 11:01.347 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was like for when applications or just very bad. 11:01.847 --> 11:11.472 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can say you can, well, react to yes, you can do mobile apps, you can build, you can build, you can build mobile apps, you can build web, I'm a web apps, you can do a lot with it. 11:11.492 --> 11:14.373 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's even pretty much you can go any job with that. 11:14.513 --> 11:14.753 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 11:15.093 --> 11:17.214 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, you didn't go to school for that, right? 11:17.454 --> 11:18.455 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't go to school for this. 11:18.635 --> 11:24.498 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, did you, did, how did you get the motivation to kind of learn this stuff without going to school? 11:25.533 --> 11:29.797 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of me, the motivation, a lot of it being on us came from my mom. 11:29.837 --> 11:37.583 [SPEAKER_00]: My mom always believed in me and she always believed like, hey, you know, if my mom said, hey, I'll fight with my mom and said, I wanted to become president. 11:37.963 --> 11:45.489 [SPEAKER_00]: She put all that belief so I, that over time, um, end up for me helped me where I believed in myself more than anything else. 11:46.470 --> 11:48.771 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just kind of just push myself every day to kind of do that. 11:48.911 --> 11:50.693 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you see anybody else that was self-taught? 11:51.697 --> 11:52.318 [SPEAKER_00]: at the time. 11:52.859 --> 11:53.540 [SPEAKER_00]: No, not really. 11:53.580 --> 11:54.181 [SPEAKER_01]: So you really. 11:54.381 --> 11:56.544 [SPEAKER_01]: So you was going to do something that it hasn't been done before. 11:56.965 --> 11:57.626 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, pretty much. 11:57.706 --> 11:58.367 [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing. 11:58.587 --> 12:02.774 [SPEAKER_01]: And I relate to that because I don't think you noticed our vision was a criminal justice major. 12:03.792 --> 12:06.953 [SPEAKER_01]: So, when I got into cyber, I didn't really have no experience. 12:07.493 --> 12:12.455 [SPEAKER_01]: In a way, self-taught, I digged my master's in it, but in any really help out would be honest with you. 12:12.756 --> 12:17.617 [SPEAKER_01]: It helps me won't get anymore money, but it ain't really help out, but I get where you're coming from on that. 12:17.637 --> 12:23.320 [SPEAKER_01]: So, it was just like, okay, and I have more admiration to you because it's like you're doing something, like you're living just taking a risk. 12:24.260 --> 12:39.020 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like what how are you learning this stuff like tell me like from the beginning like from somebody just go back to your shoes back then like how did you like learn from like how did you learn this stuff to to get into become the soft ones in there being self talk 12:40.019 --> 12:42.940 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's actually two things. 12:43.560 --> 12:53.623 [SPEAKER_00]: One was I will go on YouTube and I will go and find like if I wanted to learn how to build a website, I was okay, how to build a website, but I will break it down and can components. 12:54.423 --> 12:54.944 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, 12:56.364 --> 13:01.207 [SPEAKER_00]: If I were to ask, how do you build a peanut butter, a ppj sandwiches? 13:01.287 --> 13:06.070 [SPEAKER_00]: Most people say, oh, I'll just grab some peanut butter out the fridge and I'll just grab some jelly. 13:06.290 --> 13:15.716 [SPEAKER_00]: But programming was more of, okay, I know I would first put my leg out, you know, then it's piece and piece by piece. 13:16.196 --> 13:18.237 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that helped me learn different things. 13:18.277 --> 13:19.358 [SPEAKER_00]: So I find it understand. 13:20.017 --> 13:22.279 [SPEAKER_00]: If I want to build an app, I would say, okay, what is the function? 13:22.299 --> 13:22.599 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 13:22.619 --> 13:24.441 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I return a value? 13:24.961 --> 13:27.863 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that would help me in each piece would help me learn something. 13:28.464 --> 13:29.164 [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah. 13:29.665 --> 13:30.005 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 13:30.045 --> 13:35.329 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, even like, when I go on YouTube, like, was there like any Pacific people that you followed? 13:35.510 --> 13:38.692 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know with like building things, sometimes you can get scattered information. 13:38.952 --> 13:39.092 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 13:39.313 --> 13:40.554 [SPEAKER_01]: Like who was you followed? 13:40.594 --> 13:42.695 [SPEAKER_01]: Who, who, what, you two was with your following the time? 13:43.396 --> 13:44.497 [SPEAKER_01]: YouTube that I followed. 13:44.577 --> 13:44.937 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good. 13:45.077 --> 13:46.498 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like Khan Academy. 13:47.512 --> 13:50.394 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, I didn't not use kind of camera. 13:50.994 --> 13:53.316 [SPEAKER_00]: I would use at the time, trying to think at the time. 13:53.936 --> 13:56.418 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, yes, I used to follow this guy named WestBoss. 13:56.458 --> 14:01.241 [SPEAKER_00]: WestBoss is like a famous JavaScript engineer, applying a whole, these are all like famous. 14:01.521 --> 14:04.182 [SPEAKER_00]: So they have this subscription you get paid for. 14:04.242 --> 14:08.225 [SPEAKER_00]: It's called front and master's, but I used front and master's free co camp. 14:08.605 --> 14:11.307 [SPEAKER_00]: So when I was in Atlanta, they had, so my friend, 14:12.608 --> 14:14.869 [SPEAKER_00]: Ellen, she started this group car, Frico Campelana. 14:15.529 --> 14:19.871 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was me and her and in a bunch of us and we all were just from different careers. 14:19.891 --> 14:21.212 [SPEAKER_00]: So some of us were servers. 14:21.712 --> 14:27.816 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of us was teachers and we just every every other Sunday will meet and then that will just motivate each other. 14:28.496 --> 14:35.320 [SPEAKER_00]: And so at the time we didn't know what we're doing but now looking back all of us kind of have like our all engineers, some of us are architects now. 14:36.060 --> 14:40.883 [SPEAKER_00]: And we just all had a passion and we just they created the kind of belief for each other. 14:41.590 --> 14:44.552 [SPEAKER_01]: So you used YouTube, you had a accountability group. 14:44.852 --> 14:46.573 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are the two main sources that you were using. 14:46.773 --> 14:46.993 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 14:47.433 --> 14:48.314 [SPEAKER_01]: That's cool, okay. 14:48.674 --> 14:57.178 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just talking to some people like, you know, having an accountability group, like even now, like an entrepreneurship, you've got to have people that surround us doing the same thing that you're doing. 14:57.659 --> 14:59.780 [SPEAKER_01]: To out motivate you, especially me and self-taught. 15:00.020 --> 15:00.220 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 15:00.700 --> 15:03.482 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, you just doing this with like a whole year. 15:03.542 --> 15:05.023 [SPEAKER_01]: How long were you like studying? 15:05.103 --> 15:08.825 [SPEAKER_01]: And like also too, like, is there any other resource you were using? 15:09.712 --> 15:22.579 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, not non-tech resources, but to motivate myself, I actually would drive or how until it gets like nice homes that kind of motivate me as anytime I would have like, I have my days where I'm just like, oh man, I don't want to code today. 15:23.099 --> 15:31.944 [SPEAKER_00]: And I might go out, go out for a walk, go out and look at maybe like nicer homes, just motivate me to say, okay, this is where I could be if I keep pushing. 15:32.404 --> 15:35.045 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we'll give you the action motivation to keep going. 15:35.065 --> 15:38.207 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's even when I didn't see the in-go. 15:38.962 --> 15:42.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Because sometimes it takes years like even now like I talk to you now sometimes it just be coding. 15:43.305 --> 15:44.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're still coding. 15:44.885 --> 15:45.766 [SPEAKER_01]: He was coding yesterday. 15:45.806 --> 15:50.509 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like last night, you know, or my other coder friends, they'd be coding from five to all night. 15:51.029 --> 15:51.289 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 15:51.489 --> 15:53.931 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that's that's a good journey. 15:53.951 --> 15:57.933 [SPEAKER_01]: So like you're you're you're doing all this for like how long like how long you're learning all this stuff. 15:58.676 --> 16:04.379 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, thinking back, I was a, of course, over two years of this constantly. 16:04.399 --> 16:05.279 [SPEAKER_01]: So tip for you. 16:05.299 --> 16:08.481 [SPEAKER_01]: So you had it constantly just working self talk for two years. 16:08.941 --> 16:10.462 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just learning the material. 16:10.742 --> 16:11.002 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:11.182 --> 16:12.442 [SPEAKER_00]: So I will come home. 16:12.462 --> 16:21.026 [SPEAKER_00]: I will work some time to over or work a little server job when it's, uh, and I will just I will go to events and ask that then I will code. 16:21.086 --> 16:25.008 [SPEAKER_00]: So if I wasn't, if I wasn't coding, I was, I was, I was at my, I was working. 16:25.088 --> 16:26.509 [SPEAKER_00]: If I wasn't working, I was at an event. 16:26.829 --> 16:28.110 [SPEAKER_01]: So you want to say no money at the time? 16:28.510 --> 16:29.290 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not. 16:29.310 --> 16:30.731 [SPEAKER_00]: But so now I'm from not for money from tech. 16:30.831 --> 16:33.332 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you get any like, do any freelance job jobs? 16:33.952 --> 16:35.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I did do a freelance job. 16:35.353 --> 16:37.694 [SPEAKER_00]: I did a freelance job. 16:37.714 --> 16:39.955 [SPEAKER_00]: The first one didn't pay, but the second one did. 16:40.976 --> 16:41.316 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 16:41.336 --> 16:43.377 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you got to, yeah, it helps. 16:43.417 --> 16:46.038 [SPEAKER_01]: So I get those little projects and this is doing stuff for free. 16:46.058 --> 16:48.700 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the things that help motivate you over time, right? 16:48.780 --> 16:49.140 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 16:49.820 --> 16:50.080 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 16:50.100 --> 16:51.001 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're doing all that. 16:51.041 --> 16:55.763 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, when you was looking at your freelance, the freelance things you did, where did you get those jobs from? 16:56.437 --> 17:03.199 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so the first feeling of job, how I got that was just here just hustling to be honest. 17:03.739 --> 17:08.161 [SPEAKER_00]: I was a Maria Georgia and I didn't really have anyone to ask. 17:08.221 --> 17:10.801 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll actually go to different restaurants and I'll work. 17:10.921 --> 17:16.903 [SPEAKER_00]: I have my put back and I'll appear to my back and I'll go to different shops and try to find businesses. 17:16.923 --> 17:18.404 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you know, can I work here? 17:18.444 --> 17:22.165 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of put a website for you for free just so that way because I knew that 17:22.825 --> 17:23.486 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, about working. 17:23.506 --> 17:25.308 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to have someone in your resume and then we're going to hire you. 17:25.469 --> 17:26.410 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have any experience. 17:26.490 --> 17:32.538 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, OK, let me get first because from the experience, and then the goal will be was to take that experience and then get a work. 17:33.439 --> 17:33.919 [SPEAKER_01]: We are good. 17:33.939 --> 17:34.760 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how it is. 17:34.801 --> 17:38.585 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, even when, um, even when I got in the business, you know, you got to do stuff for free. 17:39.598 --> 17:40.779 [SPEAKER_01]: to prove your concept. 17:41.079 --> 17:45.863 [SPEAKER_01]: And then once you get those reviews, once you get that built that resume up, then you can get where you need to go. 17:45.883 --> 17:47.344 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 17:47.364 --> 17:53.869 [SPEAKER_01]: So two years later, you're going to conferences, you're working with type of jobs like bartender. 17:53.949 --> 17:57.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was a bankless server for a while and did that. 17:58.053 --> 17:58.973 [SPEAKER_00]: I worked as a food runner. 17:59.794 --> 18:01.055 [SPEAKER_00]: So that random odd jobs, yeah. 18:01.401 --> 18:02.402 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did that make you feel real. 18:02.862 --> 18:19.635 [SPEAKER_00]: At the time, because I was so like in that world, it was a struggle sometimes, but I just kept it going because I just, again, I had, I already had a dream and I had a where I want to be and I knew that if I gave up, then I would be disappointed in myself for my stop. 18:20.039 --> 18:22.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because like I saw this picture one day. 18:22.340 --> 18:23.920 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like there was two miners. 18:24.381 --> 18:25.621 [SPEAKER_01]: There was this one miner. 18:27.001 --> 18:30.303 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a digging for like for a diamond. 18:30.663 --> 18:35.364 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like one one day away from like getting the diamond. 18:35.724 --> 18:39.306 [SPEAKER_01]: But the other guy, he was close to the diamond, but he gave up and just walked away. 18:39.666 --> 18:42.287 [SPEAKER_01]: If you never kept going, then you might not even got where you went today. 18:42.307 --> 18:42.747 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 18:43.287 --> 18:44.307 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's basically it is. 18:44.327 --> 18:45.988 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to hit it when you just got to keep going. 18:47.295 --> 18:49.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so tell me about how you got your first job. 18:50.416 --> 18:53.556 [SPEAKER_00]: So I got my first job was it was interesting. 18:53.637 --> 18:55.097 [SPEAKER_00]: So I had I did internships. 18:55.117 --> 18:56.797 [SPEAKER_00]: So how I got the first job. 18:56.957 --> 19:04.319 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually had a that is really old and it's like a ninety two ninety six hundred court the time. 19:04.379 --> 19:07.279 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I have probably but like less of the house of my account. 19:08.040 --> 19:08.980 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I had it by 19:10.477 --> 19:17.832 [SPEAKER_00]: bucks, it's a hundred bucks of bucks in my can you see they got to pick something I got to eat or yeah and I have this our members and 19:19.046 --> 19:22.349 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a prison party at Atlanta Tech Village, which is now like one of the largest techs. 19:22.369 --> 19:22.869 [SPEAKER_00]: It's huge. 19:23.089 --> 19:23.810 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 19:23.830 --> 19:25.311 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to have some bro money to get in. 19:25.331 --> 19:26.472 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like three hundred dollars enough. 19:26.492 --> 19:27.192 [SPEAKER_00]: Something else for that. 19:27.232 --> 19:27.513 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 19:27.553 --> 19:27.833 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 19:27.893 --> 19:29.594 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I didn't have like a party. 19:29.614 --> 19:31.996 [SPEAKER_00]: It was twenty five dollars for like the party that they had that year. 19:32.476 --> 19:34.478 [SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I was like, man, is this? 19:35.038 --> 19:35.739 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, no, what? 19:36.139 --> 19:36.680 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just me. 19:36.880 --> 19:37.861 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to bed on myself. 19:38.241 --> 19:43.085 [SPEAKER_00]: And I went out of my car, no breaking out, breaking down here and there and I went. 19:43.605 --> 19:45.166 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's probably the best experience there. 19:45.206 --> 19:46.106 [SPEAKER_00]: I met a lot of people. 19:46.126 --> 19:49.867 [SPEAKER_00]: I had his car and I was just selling myself saying, Hey, this is my name is Kyle Lee. 19:49.887 --> 19:50.647 [SPEAKER_00]: This is who I am. 19:51.228 --> 19:56.189 [SPEAKER_00]: And then three days later, I got a this guy didn't fly at call me and was like, Hey, you want to bring you in for a job. 19:57.030 --> 20:13.235 [SPEAKER_00]: And that gave me the the most like it was for me was that for me at the time was that big break was like, Okay, I got higher for something that I just taught myself and his gave me all that, no, everything else I can for and that kind of kept me 20:14.939 --> 20:18.381 [SPEAKER_00]: that push the moving keep going, keep going. 20:18.861 --> 20:23.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know I can kind of mess you up, it's like, we're doing that. 20:23.343 --> 20:25.163 [SPEAKER_01]: You're competing with people that want to MIT. 20:25.183 --> 20:27.024 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be one of these PWIs. 20:27.044 --> 20:28.605 [SPEAKER_01]: They got all these computer science degrees. 20:29.185 --> 20:30.346 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it's so tough. 20:30.386 --> 20:32.867 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know at some point it's like, which I keep doing this. 20:33.027 --> 20:34.968 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when he gave you that, he was probably like, dang. 20:35.508 --> 20:38.489 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, God really does look out for me if you put it in the work. 20:38.669 --> 20:39.410 [SPEAKER_01]: You can take years. 20:39.890 --> 20:40.050 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 20:40.310 --> 20:42.371 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, that's an amazing experience. 20:42.793 --> 20:43.073 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 20:43.113 --> 20:44.274 [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it. 20:44.294 --> 20:50.259 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so, if you've got your first job, so you're working in your first job, like, what are some of the experiences you had by doing it? 20:50.359 --> 20:51.480 [SPEAKER_00]: For some of the sex. 20:51.520 --> 20:53.741 [SPEAKER_00]: So, my first job, I got to learn a lot. 20:53.862 --> 20:56.544 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very fast pace, more like a startup like. 20:57.204 --> 21:04.270 [SPEAKER_00]: So, a lot of the times I was there, it was they had like these, these rooms where they had seats. 21:04.590 --> 21:06.171 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, why these seats exist? 21:06.211 --> 21:06.711 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's because 21:07.727 --> 21:12.751 [SPEAKER_00]: Startup, life is like working a lot of hours, sometimes working eight plus hours, just coding all day. 21:12.931 --> 21:13.952 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe ten, yeah. 21:13.972 --> 21:16.193 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes, and you don't get paid for some of them, sometimes. 21:16.414 --> 21:17.194 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 21:17.494 --> 21:18.655 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't like it, a lot of hats. 21:19.336 --> 21:26.301 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, so it's like for like this one, it was, I remember it was, it was like entry level, but it was a time. 21:26.321 --> 21:27.722 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, it's my entry level. 21:27.762 --> 21:35.408 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna put, but looking back, I'm like, oh man, that was a lot of hours, a lot of time, but I got to learn a lot about start life. 21:36.131 --> 21:40.095 [SPEAKER_00]: And over time, I got XE, I'm really, no, I love startups. 21:40.155 --> 21:43.078 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, in bad gals, oh, man, I was a lot of work. 21:43.278 --> 21:44.479 [SPEAKER_00]: But I got to learn a lot of things. 21:45.400 --> 21:56.611 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a lot of hats, I got to learn how to, not only program, but I also got to learn a lot about, I'm just designing and how products are shipped and how different, different contracts, time. 21:56.711 --> 21:58.773 [SPEAKER_00]: So at the time, I've worked for a company called Think Tech. 21:59.182 --> 21:59.722 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you. 21:59.782 --> 22:00.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 22:00.123 --> 22:01.223 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I heard it right there. 22:01.263 --> 22:04.225 [SPEAKER_00]: They did actually, I think they were recently just acquired by Uber. 22:04.905 --> 22:05.626 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, yeah. 22:06.086 --> 22:10.969 [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, was so crazy about that, the founder, the founder of that company. 22:12.330 --> 22:19.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, I didn't know at the time until they knew like a couple of weeks ago that, but I, the next thing when I worked for was to come in that he founded as well. 22:20.715 --> 22:22.896 [SPEAKER_00]: Now it's called about match and also was a cry about Uber. 22:23.396 --> 22:23.737 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, correct. 22:24.037 --> 22:25.438 [SPEAKER_00]: So you see, he was all over the place. 22:25.458 --> 22:25.538 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:26.294 --> 22:26.974 [SPEAKER_01]: No, okay. 22:26.994 --> 22:31.916 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, you just did this for how long you was doing this there for, right? 22:32.056 --> 22:34.356 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first one, this was more of a contract. 22:34.376 --> 22:44.939 [SPEAKER_00]: So I did this one for about three to six months and then I went off the work for another come to call route mess software, which kind of like they were kind of kind of transportation fill and not there. 22:45.059 --> 22:46.499 [SPEAKER_00]: I did mostly job there. 22:46.519 --> 22:47.060 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 22:47.120 --> 22:48.660 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you slowly transition the car max. 22:49.011 --> 22:49.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes. 22:49.652 --> 22:53.094 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Sully, how we got in the car mix is that I did a contract where I was working. 22:54.275 --> 22:56.817 [SPEAKER_00]: I was working at the company called Force Marketing. 22:57.257 --> 22:58.898 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there I went over to do. 22:59.218 --> 23:02.261 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, man, I want to try some different. 23:02.481 --> 23:05.823 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to think of somewhere something called Google Tag Manager and Tag Management. 23:05.923 --> 23:10.907 [SPEAKER_00]: And then someone see me do that work and they hire me out of there to go to Tag Management. 23:11.287 --> 23:12.168 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you show me that? 23:12.188 --> 23:12.868 [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing. 23:12.888 --> 23:13.509 [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing. 23:13.549 --> 23:15.050 [SPEAKER_01]: We still got to get back to you on that one. 23:15.170 --> 23:16.011 [SPEAKER_01]: But that was amazing. 23:16.031 --> 23:17.352 [SPEAKER_01]: That was amazing, which was show me. 23:18.351 --> 23:23.355 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, so like, would you recommend for somebody to shine up become like a new, uh, new, uh, software engineer? 23:23.395 --> 23:27.678 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, because you know what the, the climate now is like, do you still go to school? 23:27.958 --> 23:29.980 [SPEAKER_01]: Or do you just, cause I know it's more self-taught now? 23:30.420 --> 23:32.902 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you can, that they're charging me tea's kind of bridging a gap. 23:32.942 --> 23:33.322 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes. 23:33.702 --> 23:33.922 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 23:33.962 --> 23:34.583 [SPEAKER_01]: We should talk to them. 23:34.843 --> 23:36.425 [SPEAKER_00]: So my thoughts on that is too past. 23:36.525 --> 23:41.351 [SPEAKER_00]: But people, I know those people who love school, so you love school, then I believe you love school. 23:41.371 --> 23:42.112 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to go to school. 23:42.152 --> 23:43.233 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say, so go for school. 23:43.253 --> 23:51.443 [SPEAKER_00]: If you could design a secret, but if you are not a school person, you can use Chagidi P and you can tell like right now, I'm learning about machine learning. 23:51.803 --> 23:54.905 [SPEAKER_00]: So I tell ChachityP to create me a twelve week. 23:56.225 --> 23:58.046 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, God just teach me that stuff. 23:58.066 --> 24:04.910 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can basically use ChachityP to teach you which you want to learn or you can build your own self learning guide for it to get to do anything. 24:05.770 --> 24:07.971 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, you can basically just use it to kind of create. 24:08.011 --> 24:09.392 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, for example, no more boot camps. 24:09.732 --> 24:17.496 [SPEAKER_01]: I do suggest that people go to boot camps sometimes because it's like you have somebody that can get you to navigate through certain things that you might not even know. 24:17.516 --> 24:19.657 [SPEAKER_01]: What about what's your thoughts on that? 24:19.984 --> 24:20.424 [SPEAKER_00]: on boot camp. 24:21.024 --> 24:22.505 [SPEAKER_00]: I think why I use a reform boot camp. 24:22.605 --> 24:28.947 [SPEAKER_00]: I think some boot camps, I think it's kind of, I would say it's kind of different, is the pin on the student that goes. 24:29.087 --> 24:33.849 [SPEAKER_00]: So I know some students all go to boot camp and they can boot camp. 24:34.129 --> 24:37.571 [SPEAKER_00]: People, I said, some people go to boot camp and they respect the boot camp, they teach them everything. 24:38.111 --> 24:43.433 [SPEAKER_00]: But boot camp only gives you fifty percent and a year of person that is very disciplined, I say, hey, go to boot camp. 24:44.270 --> 24:47.934 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not a person that's very disciplined, I would say go to score out. 24:48.575 --> 24:56.143 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're a person who's also disciplined, then you can do, I say you're a hundred percent disciplined, and you can do the Teddy to Pete route. 24:56.623 --> 24:58.185 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's like three different rocks you can take. 24:58.875 --> 25:02.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because like, it's so many, yeah, you can go so many routes at this point. 25:02.796 --> 25:05.197 [SPEAKER_01]: I think self-taught is like the new thing now. 25:05.757 --> 25:08.838 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I do think school for the connections. 25:09.178 --> 25:12.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're going to like, want to PWL, like a Stanford or someone like that. 25:12.438 --> 25:13.759 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's interesting. 25:13.779 --> 25:18.360 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I don't know software emergent in there too much, but do you think you need to feel the slowly dying? 25:19.232 --> 25:40.825 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think I think so I sometimes tell people that when you get on a like lead then or you can also push me a lot you would think that everybody is doing their job but is really a small fraction maybe like less than one a two percent it's just that so she may sometimes talk about all people losing jobs but really it's you just find like your niche everyone is trying to do one thing 25:41.217 --> 25:41.957 [SPEAKER_01]: you know what A.I. 25:41.997 --> 25:42.557 [SPEAKER_01]: feel like A.I. 25:42.677 --> 25:44.198 [SPEAKER_01]: is taking over a lot. 25:44.238 --> 25:51.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Like even I think somebody said, I think a Mark Zuckerberg said that Microsoft is thirty percent coding this on AI. 25:51.699 --> 25:53.880 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that's going to take over the space? 25:53.940 --> 25:54.540 [SPEAKER_01]: Like A.I. 25:54.660 --> 25:56.821 [SPEAKER_01]: is going to take over or there still won't be a need for software engineering. 25:56.841 --> 25:58.141 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you still need to build it, right? 25:58.281 --> 25:58.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 25:58.581 --> 25:58.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 25:58.741 --> 26:03.702 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually think it's going to be similar to how like how cloud is people thought gets cloud was going to do with AI. 26:04.643 --> 26:05.603 [SPEAKER_00]: People with things want to do. 26:05.623 --> 26:06.043 [SPEAKER_00]: I think 26:06.843 --> 26:10.205 [SPEAKER_00]: like how I think AS can just like close when I create new jobs. 26:10.586 --> 26:16.149 [SPEAKER_00]: So like for like how you have for a cloud, you have like congeners and deaf ops, deaf sick ops. 26:16.230 --> 26:24.035 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think for AS gonna be machine engineers and people, I think now it's gonna move towards senior engineers or people who are product engineers. 26:24.495 --> 26:28.598 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, I think AS gonna take out more of the junior level roles jobs. 26:28.778 --> 26:36.203 [SPEAKER_00]: And those people who are junior level roles will have to basically learn a lot more and find a niche that they really get at. 26:36.662 --> 26:41.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think the LinkedIn, one of the LinkedIn owners said, like, hey, most of the jobs are going to become freelance. 26:42.529 --> 26:47.916 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to have to probably be freelance before you even get it before you're going to have to come in mid-level or senior level now, right? 26:48.147 --> 26:54.011 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's where I think the role like a lot of roles right now, you were to go online a lot of them are either middle-ever or senior level of roles. 26:55.132 --> 27:00.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Mostly because this AI is just a lot of the boiler pleats stuff, you know? 27:01.056 --> 27:06.440 [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of general roles you can AI agent get you the same level of work. 27:07.541 --> 27:08.361 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel protected? 27:09.282 --> 27:09.943 [SPEAKER_00]: Of my role? 27:10.063 --> 27:10.303 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 27:11.964 --> 27:13.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Justing software is an air in general. 27:13.450 --> 27:16.112 [SPEAKER_00]: For what I do, it's like a fifty-fifty. 27:16.712 --> 27:29.440 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say mostly because I don't know, I can't predict anything, but I do think that as long as I'm constantly learning, my role will be protected in a sense of no matter what happens, Leo, so whatever. 27:29.540 --> 27:33.743 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'll be protected as I'm learning more and more and more and more. 27:33.803 --> 27:36.164 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like new software engineers want to be able to come in? 27:41.587 --> 27:42.629 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do. 27:42.749 --> 27:43.730 [SPEAKER_01]: But probably different route. 27:44.070 --> 27:55.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think what I think is if people should focus on it, it's focused on that's why I've taught people to focus on the niche because right now everybody like right now everyone is trying to do the same thing but everyone is trying to find a quick way but 27:57.364 --> 28:12.369 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the rules that you see that are getting are more the rules that are like writing and said the things that AI could do but things like, like for instance, right now AI has all this code, but right now it's criminal out of security AI jobs because who's going to, you know, it's my man there. 28:12.669 --> 28:12.889 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 28:12.909 --> 28:15.430 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think of like, I'm an Avengers fan. 28:15.510 --> 28:22.732 [SPEAKER_01]: So I always think about age of old-time, basically like, old-time corrupted the AI, you know, became sentient. 28:22.872 --> 28:24.032 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I scare for. 28:24.152 --> 28:25.553 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's what I'm scare for in a future. 28:26.336 --> 28:26.996 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, same. 28:27.277 --> 28:32.760 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it could pretend to be since it can pretend not to know anything, but really is taking over your whole system. 28:33.781 --> 28:40.125 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I think you sometimes try to get the AS so much power in terms of like, even not AI agents. 28:41.986 --> 28:43.708 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, why do we need AI agents? 28:44.328 --> 28:46.389 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I'm not going to lie. 28:46.489 --> 28:49.591 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this like, well, AI people are trusting AI so much. 28:49.691 --> 28:51.533 [SPEAKER_01]: I think people are using AI as therapy now. 28:52.377 --> 28:56.558 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even AI can mess people up with therapy because they don't understand humans. 28:56.978 --> 28:58.439 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they don't understand humans. 28:58.459 --> 29:08.941 [SPEAKER_01]: So it can mess around and mess up relationships, just giving advice, but it might not be the best advice or it can lead you down the wrong path based on what you give, because it don't really understand what you're even giving it to them. 29:09.241 --> 29:09.481 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 29:09.781 --> 29:12.062 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why, and that's why, that's the main reason why I think. 29:12.804 --> 29:33.701 [SPEAKER_00]: As I can take a lot of jobs as much as people think I think it's all just It's just like talk in the media for instance like a AI can't really understand business decisions a lot of a lot of business decisions or just so I don't think AI like a client if a client say hey, I need to I need to fix this I need to fix this I need to fix that 29:34.742 --> 29:38.765 [SPEAKER_00]: a human is better, or even a cell is like cell through the AI. 29:39.506 --> 29:42.028 [SPEAKER_00]: The client wants to be in person, can't have an AI in person. 29:42.048 --> 29:45.891 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's some people prefer in person meetings. 29:45.931 --> 29:50.615 [SPEAKER_00]: Some prefer to have a human being there to be full more trusting. 29:51.457 --> 29:59.905 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because even with Jew, like, you're able to talk to people, relate to people, you know, in build connections, like AI can do that. 29:59.985 --> 30:02.968 [SPEAKER_01]: I heard some sales AI sound directly like humans. 30:03.288 --> 30:04.129 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 30:04.169 --> 30:05.750 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've talked the one, but not knowing. 30:06.071 --> 30:06.251 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 30:06.911 --> 30:08.713 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, not even knowing. 30:08.753 --> 30:09.994 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's getting crazy out here. 30:10.014 --> 30:10.795 [SPEAKER_01]: They can mimic him. 30:11.175 --> 30:12.477 [SPEAKER_01]: Parents, everything out here. 30:13.495 --> 30:18.198 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so, so could be like, you know, you've been doing so much in software engineering. 30:18.559 --> 30:21.621 [SPEAKER_01]: I know you're, you start a dabble in the entrepreneurship now, right? 30:21.741 --> 30:21.961 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 30:22.321 --> 30:24.323 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, what motivated you to do that? 30:24.523 --> 30:31.508 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, been being hanging around people on there, come up, motivate you to do that or like, what got you into that? 30:31.828 --> 30:34.371 [SPEAKER_00]: We got me to the more the entrepreneurship part of it. 30:34.411 --> 30:38.435 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, uh, first I was working at a codewood camp. 30:38.635 --> 30:42.659 [SPEAKER_00]: How's it end out was um, fulping, um, for three last three years, part time. 30:42.939 --> 30:49.446 [SPEAKER_00]: I was working at a thankful and I was teaching coding from all different walks of life from eighteen all the way up to sixty five and 30:50.043 --> 30:53.945 [SPEAKER_00]: Just going through that and learning about that and mentoring people doing that, I really enjoy that. 30:54.486 --> 30:57.748 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when I went to one another job, I was like, man, I still wanna do this. 30:57.948 --> 30:59.109 [SPEAKER_00]: So I start doing it for free. 30:59.609 --> 31:02.191 [SPEAKER_00]: On our side, start meeting people, helping them in the careers. 31:02.811 --> 31:05.793 [SPEAKER_00]: And then someone was like, hey, you know, you'll be really good at, you know, doing your own thing. 31:05.873 --> 31:06.713 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's good. 31:07.254 --> 31:10.316 [SPEAKER_00]: And then eventually, the Baltimore, and I was like, it was an opportunity. 31:10.596 --> 31:11.977 [SPEAKER_00]: And I decided to go for it. 31:12.097 --> 31:13.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I was like, why not, why not me? 31:14.825 --> 31:18.087 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because from talking to you, you've been trying to do this well a long time. 31:18.127 --> 31:19.108 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've done events. 31:19.128 --> 31:22.150 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've been kind of helping you on that end, you know. 31:22.651 --> 31:25.593 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, from not only your other time, I already knew you had it in you. 31:26.413 --> 31:28.455 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you knew what you had in yourself at the time. 31:28.515 --> 31:34.119 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, you started black tech and neck, and it's like, like, your first event, like, you're not gonna kill that. 31:34.139 --> 31:36.000 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you had, like, five people made videos about it. 31:36.441 --> 31:37.622 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you had this reason one. 31:37.682 --> 31:40.884 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, like, what made you start black tech and neck? 31:41.549 --> 31:43.811 [SPEAKER_00]: So I started a blood tech connect mostly. 31:44.451 --> 31:46.353 [SPEAKER_00]: So I used to go to like black tech side aches. 31:47.033 --> 31:52.638 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really enjoy just going to having somewhat of the be around other tech people that look like me. 31:52.858 --> 31:53.679 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to. 31:54.199 --> 31:57.222 [SPEAKER_00]: So when that went away, I was like, man, I really enjoy that. 31:57.982 --> 32:01.085 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't see anyone step up to play the kind of create that space. 32:01.405 --> 32:04.367 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just like know what, let me go on a little while. 32:04.387 --> 32:06.349 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me go ahead and just post and to see what happens. 32:06.549 --> 32:08.871 [SPEAKER_00]: And even when I did the first one, never done it. 32:08.911 --> 32:09.812 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got never done events. 32:09.992 --> 32:11.193 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I didn't know where I'll get out of it. 32:11.937 --> 32:15.640 [SPEAKER_00]: and I was very surprised, and thirty-five plus people showed up to the first one. 32:16.001 --> 32:16.902 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how did I make you feel? 32:16.922 --> 32:18.243 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here is a very rare. 32:18.603 --> 32:37.400 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, like, sometimes I don't like a few of some times, but yeah, I'm not really like the talking front of like a lot of people, but the more I do with the more I realize that the city kind of needs it, the more I have people come up to me, so they met people through my group. 32:38.151 --> 32:40.494 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, makes me really want to do it with a few people. 32:40.514 --> 32:41.836 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you helping a lot of people. 32:41.856 --> 32:46.602 [SPEAKER_01]: You're connecting black professionals with each other to network and grow. 32:47.003 --> 32:50.928 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, you know, you help with connecting their businesses to help each other out. 32:50.948 --> 32:53.010 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's amazing what you're doing, man. 32:53.411 --> 32:53.952 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. 32:53.972 --> 32:54.673 [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing. 32:54.813 --> 32:56.215 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, like, where's the future of that? 32:56.819 --> 33:01.982 [SPEAKER_00]: So the future, the launch run feature of this is to kind of build this and to build a community. 33:02.683 --> 33:11.148 [SPEAKER_00]: So the goal is to kind of have black professionals or under represented a profession of coming together and to go with the build a Baltimore Tech week. 33:11.729 --> 33:14.451 [SPEAKER_00]: And then to then see that turn into a Baltimore Tech conference. 33:14.911 --> 33:16.072 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like the long term goal. 33:16.572 --> 33:18.333 [SPEAKER_00]: But I know to get something like that. 33:18.353 --> 33:20.533 [SPEAKER_00]: You had this kind of start with a small community first. 33:20.914 --> 33:27.016 [SPEAKER_00]: So right now, I go with the kind of skill this hopefully to like a hundred members about it in the year and then they go on from there. 33:27.136 --> 33:27.656 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do that. 33:28.316 --> 33:28.996 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do that. 33:29.337 --> 33:30.457 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do that in like some mouse. 33:31.117 --> 33:31.817 [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it. 33:31.858 --> 33:32.798 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do that very quick. 33:33.378 --> 33:36.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially in Baltimore, Baltimore, they're from me being in Baltimore, they're thriving. 33:36.981 --> 33:39.223 [SPEAKER_01]: They want something to connect to. 33:39.283 --> 33:40.364 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to come out to BZ. 33:41.164 --> 33:44.187 [SPEAKER_01]: So they want something down there so you can do that pretty well. 33:44.347 --> 33:46.729 [SPEAKER_01]: And you've been making a lot of connections with networking. 33:47.209 --> 33:50.191 [SPEAKER_01]: And people just want to connect with you to help you out in Baltimore. 33:50.231 --> 33:51.192 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you. 33:51.212 --> 33:51.833 [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate it. 33:52.273 --> 33:57.537 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Khalif, we're kind of with an audience behind you. 33:57.937 --> 34:00.319 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to find me, you can find me on 34:01.418 --> 34:07.119 [SPEAKER_00]: go to blacktechconnect.com, or you can go follow my Instagram at blacktechconnect. 34:07.719 --> 34:10.740 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to also add me a link then, and I'll be happy to reach out. 34:11.240 --> 34:12.401 [SPEAKER_01]: So what should go for the next file here? 34:12.421 --> 34:12.861 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's something? 34:12.881 --> 34:13.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Give me some big. 34:14.001 --> 34:14.501 [SPEAKER_01]: Some big. 34:14.561 --> 34:15.841 [SPEAKER_01]: Some big. 34:16.061 --> 34:22.943 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to ask you about, because you know how I'm going to ask, uh, there's something you want to do in the next five years that you want to speak to existence. 34:23.597 --> 34:25.658 [SPEAKER_00]: So right now, and I've seen in grad school right now. 34:25.718 --> 34:26.099 [SPEAKER_00]: Congrats. 34:26.379 --> 34:26.679 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 34:26.859 --> 34:31.102 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm working on, um, given my master's in, um, AI. 34:31.122 --> 34:35.465 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be a machine engineer, but I, I want to kind of work in that space. 34:35.565 --> 34:45.232 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to be a, I researcher, um, for one of these, and then the whole goal is to build out workshops and programs to kind of, you know, help and to help and level up, you know, the community and Baltimore. 34:45.932 --> 34:48.313 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no. 34:49.574 --> 34:51.795 [SPEAKER_01]: What is something you want to lead the audience with? 34:51.855 --> 34:52.515 [SPEAKER_01]: It can be a quote. 34:52.535 --> 34:53.315 [SPEAKER_01]: You can be a statement. 34:53.355 --> 35:00.679 [SPEAKER_00]: Something you want to lead the audience with the motivator to stay curious, always stay curious, never give up on yourself. 35:01.539 --> 35:05.841 [SPEAKER_00]: And those are the things that I will say always stay curious, always be open to feedback. 35:06.721 --> 35:10.683 [SPEAKER_00]: And then allow that, that will help you to improve yourself and help you grow. 35:11.528 --> 35:12.309 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it, Clevver. 35:12.449 --> 35:14.170 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for having you on the to channel. 35:14.270 --> 35:15.631 [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you coming home this Sunday. 35:16.151 --> 35:16.971 [SPEAKER_01]: So we can get this done. 35:16.991 --> 35:18.092 [SPEAKER_01]: I am happy. 35:18.472 --> 35:19.053 [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate it. 35:19.593 --> 35:19.813 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 35:20.374 --> 35:23.115 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you everybody for watching the tech work podcast. 35:23.155 --> 35:26.137 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, if you watched it on YouTube, like the video, subscribe to the channel. 35:26.457 --> 35:30.360 [SPEAKER_01]: It right in the comments if you had anything you wanted to say regarding this topic. 35:31.000 --> 35:37.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember to check out our MF Academy.io to learn anything on our MF and cybersecurity and gov tech. 35:37.864 --> 35:38.485 [SPEAKER_01]: So check it out. 35:39.205 --> 35:48.557 [SPEAKER_01]: Also join the news weather check during the tech world news letter and also going www.techwoodpodcast.com to cover some merch support to channel and also check out the Patreon. 35:49.098 --> 35:51.280 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember everybody get one percent better every day. 35:51.781 --> 35:52.282 [SPEAKER_01]: Peace out. 35:52.382 --> 35:53.283 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you on the next one.