[SPEAKER_02]: Such a disappointment.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can make anything we fancy in this arena of infinite promise.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this will become up with?
[SPEAKER_02]: Weapons?
[SPEAKER_02]: War?
[SPEAKER_02]: Surely we have more imagination.
[SPEAKER_02]: than that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast time, Jason.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I'm Rima.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I may run.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is it, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the Legion podcast episode, twenty-seven.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's the end.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's very clear to us that this is the end and the beginning.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the beginning.
[SPEAKER_04]: For us it's just the end.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's the end.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how you guys feeling about it being over?
[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like I knew I was going to feel.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm sad that it's over because it's such a fun imaginative show and there's nothing else like it.
[SPEAKER_09]: But again, what I've said before, I'm glad they ended it on their own terms and that he wrote it to the end.
[SPEAKER_09]: He wasn't like forced off or I don't feel it got off too far off the tracks and had to reel it back in or anything.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I like it when it shows able to do that.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I'm happy with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a satisfying feeling to just have something in on its own terms and we did an episode of this podcast for every episode of the show and that feels good and now we can kind of check it off the list.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm just going to go rewatch.
[SPEAKER_09]: And see what happens next.
[SPEAKER_09]: See, see if something different happens.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, this is for me.
[SPEAKER_06]: This is one of the weirdest finale feelings I've had in the wild because like my first reaction was like, OK, I like that.
[SPEAKER_06]: It felt a little like safe maybe.
[SPEAKER_06]: And you definitely kind of bittersweet.
[SPEAKER_06]: And then I started thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm like, man, I don't know if I like this.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like there's
[SPEAKER_06]: a lot of open questions that they did in the answer and it felt like that maybe they really paid short shift to like the cosmic consequences of what was going on and then I started thinking about more like the subtextual stuff and I started talking myself into it like an intellect so it's like I'm still really settling how I feel about the finale the series is a whole like we talked about last week this clearly wasn't just ninety minutes of
[SPEAKER_06]: you know, David's face slowly morphing into for Rook, so it achieved it achieved a better, better outcome than that.
[SPEAKER_06]: But there's a lot of this stuff that I really, really love.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, you know, I've had like some of the songs that kind of miss me, but I really like the rendition of Mother Here, turning it into a duet and kind of like adding a lot of sweetness and light to a kind of a dark, a traditionally dark take on that song.
[SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, I'm really having a lot of complex emotions overall.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think though my affection for the series remains intact and it's one of those things where I'm definitely going to revisit this and see how I feel about it every once a while because it's a great series and a fittingly kind of mixed feeling mysterious finale to it, I think.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm curious to see what you thought Jason.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of, as you're talking, I feel like it's almost kind of appropriate that a show like this would leave a person feeling a bit emotionally confused about it because it is, it's an emotionally confusing show and intellectually and, you know, it's a roller coaster.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, for this episode in particular, I have similar feelings.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the series overall, I have when I'm really attached to a show, I feel a bit of like a depression or a sadness when it's sure and I'm getting some of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm also satisfied, like we mentioned a rumor that, you know, they finished it on their own terms and that's great.
[SPEAKER_04]: But as far as this episode, there's one thing in particular that I feel like is a huge flaw in the episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it took away from it a lot for me, but if I put that aside, I think I'm really satisfied with the way it ended up.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm really happy with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: That one thing I can't let go, but other than that, I'm good.
[SPEAKER_06]: Hmm, can't wait to find out what it is.
[SPEAKER_06]: It is the same thing that you might be on the desk.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that said, let's get into our top three remote one at two go first.
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I wanted to talk about Switch a little bit and, you know, I was kind of confused.
[SPEAKER_09]: I do like that she seemed to have had a good ending.
[SPEAKER_09]: I was going to say that like she lived, but I guess she died and then evolved and
[SPEAKER_09]: I guess, became this fourth-dimensional being.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I was kind of confused a little bit about, you know, exactly what she was, who her, her poppa really was, because he didn't really seem to indicate, like, oh, well, I call you daughter.
[SPEAKER_09]: She calls him poppa, but it's not like really her father.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's just kind of who she was in this life, you know, to her.
[SPEAKER_09]: But I thought it was interesting that she had to shed her human skin or her human form.
[SPEAKER_09]: and her baby teeth to free herself and evolve.
[SPEAKER_09]: And again, I'm not really sure into what I thought they said that she was time.
[SPEAKER_09]: Like she is time itself.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't really- She said that.
[SPEAKER_09]: I understand that.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: But then I was kind of sad because I don't think that her character was developed enough.
[SPEAKER_09]: I thought that, like, from the first episode, they were, you know, kind of steering her to be, like, a bigger player in the season.
[SPEAKER_09]: And it ended up, I thought she ended up... Very data-sex-max.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and they try I think they tried like when they criticize some people criticize Legion for being a little more style over substance or even just weird plot developments I think she's like that yeah
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's interesting and kind of fun, but there's, yeah, it feels like there's not as much substance underneath.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I see her as this sort of interdimensional higher level being who didn't realize what she was and her father, it was sort of a misdirection.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I wonder whether this was the plan the whole time.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, the idea was to make us believe that she was being ignored and actually what I feel like is an analog for a father in this time dimension that they're from.
[SPEAKER_04]: was just sort of waiting for her to get to the right time where he could help her ascend onto this new plane and shedding her baby teeth in her new teeth come in as like a metaphor for evolving and go and he tells her he's going to take her to existence untethered so that sounds like an even higher plane of existence.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, I felt like watching someone getting inducted into the queue continuum.
[SPEAKER_06]: That was actually kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like the whole, losing her teeth and her dying.
[SPEAKER_06]: And like, oh, that's not, that's, you just lost your baby teeth.
[SPEAKER_06]: I have your wisdom teeth and you're kind of like a butterfly emerging from a, a Pupa.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I thought that was pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: I just, I was really kind of shocked.
[SPEAKER_06]: It almost seems like they created Switch.
[SPEAKER_06]: because they wanted to get, they wanted to do time travel, but also like, she played a vital role in kind of coming in there as in the universe and saying, hey, the universe noticed you.
[SPEAKER_06]: You meant something, you mattered because everything else in the episode tells me that nothing that happened mattered because all of these lives are about to wink out of existence.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that's a tough one because that's thirty-two years of
[SPEAKER_06]: you know, professor access life and like all these different people's on plane like being rewound and you know, I was reading a bunch of reviews of Holly he mentioned that, you know, well, most of people are going to like end up exactly where they were because their lives weren't touched by David or whatnot.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm just like, but yeah, but you think about the lives that were and they were like, you know, if, if, Professor X for example, in the Marvel universe, that's like a huge life to touch and you think about
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I guess maybe I don't know because he still sounds like he's going to found his school forgets.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe he wouldn't have.
[SPEAKER_04]: Youngsters.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, you know, I'm not travel.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I've always thought about teaching that made it sound like that was something new.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this might be the creation of the X men.
[SPEAKER_06]: Which kind of answered the question of like where are the X-Men and David's future timeline?
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, like this this shadow king encounter seemed a sour demo and the idea of finding mutants.
[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I mean, that all tracks, but it just felt like when she came in and you know, a hand wave all the time, demons away, it felt very, very daos-exy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like we're done with this.
[SPEAKER_04]: We got we're on the last episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the whole speech about value, I feel like that was for us and it was for Sid, but also for us to be to kind of try to prep us so that we wouldn't feel like we wasted our time watching these people who blinked out of existence, like you said.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, in defense of that, you could say that about anyone.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, the sun's going to swallow up the earth in a billion years and
[SPEAKER_04]: Will all be gone and all of humanity probably unless we Figure out how to go live in other solar systems and stuff like that so you could think about it that way.
[SPEAKER_06]: That was a matter And then no one can escape the heat death of the universe Jason Black holes maybe But even then the boil away the infinite mysticism all right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna ascend into the fourth dimension and then
[SPEAKER_06]: That's our only hope.
[SPEAKER_06]: We got to get, we got to find our time daddy's.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I feel like maybe, and I'm just sort of guessing or this is my feeling, but know how he's a novelist and maybe what he does is he thinks up some characters in an idea and then just kind of plays around with it and sees where it will go.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he even says that about Legion, you know, I went where the story took me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe he did that with Switch.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, okay, let's dive into her character.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's give her an absent father, et cetera, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it just kind of sometimes doesn't go as far as you hope it might.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of what it felt like to me, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I could be wrong about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: It could just, he could have planned it all out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is what it was.
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, and you talked about, you know, how switches pop a, you remember he really is, but that's what we'll call him.
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, was just kind of waiting for her, like I said, to kind of get to this place for her to be ready to then ascend and become what she was always meant to become.
[SPEAKER_09]: And this entire time, you know, we're looking at David like, you're such an asshole to her.
[SPEAKER_09]: You look at everything that you're putting her through when it, it seems like this is what accelerated her getting to where she is, which was a better place.
[SPEAKER_09]: So, it should she be thanking David then for, you know, thanks for pushing me and making me go through time and travel through time and, you know, she doesn't seem resentful.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_06]: It almost seems like the maturation process for a time traveler is deciding to disregard the rules of time travel.
[SPEAKER_06]: What does this mean?
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just like, because all of the rules of time travel that were left on the Walkman, she listened to, presumably, provided by her father or something like that to kind of help her all about things you shouldn't do.
[SPEAKER_06]: And she did all those things, which led to her teeth falling out of her physical then, which led to her death, which also led to her ascension.
[SPEAKER_06]: So it's almost like once you get with, once you see the wisdom of breaking the rules, you can.
[SPEAKER_06]: But it's like, such weird because like, she wasn't even pursuing her own agenda.
[SPEAKER_06]: She was pursuing David's agenda.
[SPEAKER_06]: So it's like, what kind of weird initiation right for a time-traving species is this anyway?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I really don't understand why this moment was the moment that he came in and took her.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: I really like, like, you know what it did?
[SPEAKER_06]: It felt like the final act of a good start trek in the next generation episode.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, if that was the A plot of like a forty-five minute romp, then I'm like, hell yeah, time daddy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I liked how he, his personality was the complete opposite of what he'd been before.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was really warm and calm and inviting and things like that.
[SPEAKER_06]: When there's no longer the shell between them or whatever she said, yeah, the carapace.
[SPEAKER_04]: but he um she says as she's her teeth are falling out and before the father comes back she says you were right bed time is here which I think she's saying I'm about to die and that's a reference to the when the season three started there was a TV screen with the whole police standby TV pattern and and that morphed into the words bed time is here oh my god
[SPEAKER_05]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: At the time I thought that had something to do with putting the series to bed, which maybe it did, but it maybe it was also the TV she was looking at.
[SPEAKER_04]: We should have come on it or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now he says, um, bedtime is over.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so maybe that's sort of like it's time for you to wake up to the reality of what you really are or something.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Redfield.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, here on number three.
[SPEAKER_06]: I, okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: We talked about this a lot this season, but Harry Lloyd just killed Professor X and I got like he during his, when they paired off and Xavier is fighting old for Rook.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's this line where, you know, for Rook is trying to convince him, like look, I'm older, I'm tired of all the churn and the constant struggle.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm here to aid, I've changed and I was thinking like,
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't buy because, you know, I think we've all been on the page that like the shadow king is the ultimate bad guy.
[SPEAKER_06]: He's been manipulating things to kind of like, yes, David, my president of the universe, the world, but it only because, you know, he did it slightly before the shadow king did.
[SPEAKER_06]: And he kind of give this line and like Harry Lloyd gives his performance of professor, actually, he just kind of fixes in with like this like,
[SPEAKER_06]: penetrating gays as the camera kind of swoops into him and then his face kind of changes is okay, but I've got a proposition for you.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that I just felt like that's like the most Charles Xavier thing I've seen in every piece of expert media.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, it just really convinced me of his intelligence and kind of like the idea that like, oh, of course, they're telepaths.
[SPEAKER_06]: And this guy's one of his powerful telepaths in the world.
[SPEAKER_06]: And he's going to use all that ability to completely look through the shadow king and see his sincerity.
[SPEAKER_06]: I have a bunch of problems with why the shadow king is turned is turned into such a reasonable guy.
[SPEAKER_06]: My theory is that
[SPEAKER_06]: He went through just an unfathomable amount of time in that painting and like kind of chilled the fuck out.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's the thing that I was talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because quickly he went from I liked the idea that fruit living with David changed him for the better even as as we've talked about for the whole series it changed for the worst it's like this psychic moral Osmosis Yeah, where they both kind of leveled out, but it skips over
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything we've seen from Varu for the last twenty six episodes, you know, even after at season one, he was kicked out of David's body.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if that change happened, it would have taken effect, you know, he's been there for thirty two years already.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why would it take effect in season three?
[SPEAKER_04]: It would have been, you know, already taken effect.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was definite, I mean, but you're saying maybe helps, maybe that's a work.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's, that's why I don't know.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's me trying to work with the show, but like it does feel like that.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's definitely been elements of him having a change of heart like, oh, you know, my beautiful baby boy, and how could I hate you?
[SPEAKER_06]: And, but there's also just a lot of him in his shit that he was still doing in these last, the last season or two.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I felt like they didn't, that was very underwritten.
[SPEAKER_06]: His, his, his heel to face turn.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think they decided that in between season two and three because I think and I'd have to go back for sure, but maybe we could go back and watch rewatch season three and it would track, but it doesn't track for season two, where he's like shoving Lenny's consciousness into Amy's body.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know that stuff?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, right, right.
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, the way that I try to make sense of it in my head and in make sense of
[SPEAKER_09]: this change, because I thought there's a quick change, because I'm thinking why the sudden change of heart, but we've seen it from the beginning of season three, and we even saw a little bit of it in the finale of season two.
[SPEAKER_09]: When David was getting ready to, we didn't know it at the time we thought it was fruit's trial, but it was really David's trial.
[SPEAKER_09]: But when he goes and sees for Rook, and he tells him that he loves him.
[SPEAKER_09]: And David, of course, was like whatever, and calls him a monster.
[SPEAKER_09]: And so we saw some of it then.
[SPEAKER_09]: And then in all of season three, we've seen how much he's tried to kind of divert division three into, you know, and try to divert Sid from killing him and stuff.
[SPEAKER_09]: But what does he up to?
[SPEAKER_09]: Isn't he out to getting two or what's his real motivation?
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think it took for Rook being, you know, once he got his own body back, and once he was pushed out of David's mind, that is what brought the enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's like you don't know what you've gotten till you're outside of it, and you don't have it anymore.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think that's when he was able to kind of step back and kind of get that and understand
[SPEAKER_09]: David because he's not in his mind anymore.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's like he was too close to see it if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like when he was one with him he he left Wait when when did he get his body back?
[SPEAKER_04]: Not until the end, huh?
[SPEAKER_04]: So kind of to use it was kind of just floating around in the astro plate.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, he was inside Oliver
[SPEAKER_09]: Who's in all of her?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because during season two, he was trying to convince people that David was the bad guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so you're saying not until he got back in his own body because he was out of David throughout season two.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: But he was still, but it's different when you're like in a, like what, because he says, and over time, what was once a prison became a person.
[SPEAKER_09]: So it's like when you lose that control, I feel
[SPEAKER_09]: And you have that loss of control.
[SPEAKER_09]: That's when you kind of get that alignment.
[SPEAKER_09]: Because even though he was he didn't have his body and he was in all of her, it was still kind of a similar situation that he was in with David.
[SPEAKER_06]: I just wish there is because like I think this would have looked this work a lot better.
[SPEAKER_06]: If you could think that and put your finger on exactly a moment where his change of heart began.
[SPEAKER_06]: Because honestly, it sounds like we're speculating, but like there's not one thing you can think of like, oh, right, that one time where he was in David's mind and he saw someone suffer from this human perspective.
[SPEAKER_06]: And because I mean, it's not about Harry Lloyd and all the actors on the show because like,
[SPEAKER_06]: The guy who plays them all for Rook, I can't remember his name.
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, Nick, Nick upon.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, thank you.
[SPEAKER_06]: He did such a wonderful acting job when he was like reliving David's memories through the special glasses.
[SPEAKER_06]: I went along with the story because it's like they're telling it so well.
[SPEAKER_06]: I just feel like it's a little bit of a sliding hand misdirection.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, because I just don't think they establish what they need to do for me to buy that because I was looking for him.
[SPEAKER_06]: The whole time he was talking with Xavier.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm thinking, Oh, he is going to snow Xavier like, you know, the old, the young for Rook is just for Russia and a beast, the old for Rook is lying cunning, but they're both going to have the same goal.
[SPEAKER_06]: And you know, Dave is going to be the, and he's going to take advantage, but in up until.
[SPEAKER_06]: Xavier kind of like did that, you know, kind of like really cool look over for a group.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, okay, I'm starting to buy this, but yeah, up until the last episode, we are all like this guy is a snake.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because that's how he was portrayed at least.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I love the idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love the idea that they subvert.
[SPEAKER_04]: This whole show has subverted superhero stuff by having dance offs instead of fighting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure, sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this time, it's two guys having a beer.
[SPEAKER_04]: You were saying, I'm waiting for a big, big thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I love that, you know, the idea of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it has to be executed in a way that makes me believe that it was earned and with Shadow King in particular,
[SPEAKER_04]: all these kind of things that we're coming up with feel like we're really trying to work hard to make it make sense, but I just don't really buy it.
[SPEAKER_06]: his two villainous should have popped the brakes in the villainy in season two.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but the thing is that's hard because he also was the terrifying.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sly manipulative villain in that worked great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it would be so tricky to try and do that, but have it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then have us then realize looking back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was misunderstood the whole time when he was terrorizing David torturing his sister.
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I don't think that they're really trying to play.
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I think that they're trying to say that
[SPEAKER_09]: for root does have like fatherly feelings towards David, but I don't think it changes essentially who he is.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's basically just a truce.
[SPEAKER_09]: They're just like, I think that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's not going to beat David.
[SPEAKER_09]: David, he knows that David's going to beat him.
[SPEAKER_09]: I think that he knows that David is stronger than he is and he doesn't really stand a chance.
[SPEAKER_09]: And like this is also a way for him to continue surviving.
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm old and wiser now.
[SPEAKER_09]: I've lived through all of this.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says he's tired of the discord.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I'm just, you know, I just want to be allowed to live.
[SPEAKER_09]: Y'all do your thing.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to do my thing.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not going to interfere.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not going to go invade your baby's head, you know, and mess with his life for the next thirty years.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but come back if you want to rule the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that fits with what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_09]: So he still, he's still who he is.
[SPEAKER_09]: I think.
[SPEAKER_09]: In a way, it's just, you know, I like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're helping me.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, try.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you're right, because it's, it's, it's first, he's not, he's not a, he's not hung up as bad guy.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's, he's not like he's flipped and he's now a good guy.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's just, he's grown and evolved the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_09]: The whole theme is like this growth and evolving and self-renewal and, and he's still a bad guy, but he's, he's grown as a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_09]: But he's not a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I loved when Xavier said to back to Ferook, it's something like it's hard to hate someone that you understand.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that is amazing, you know, that's one of the messages of the show is just empathy, not discord, you know, love not war basically.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, I like what you're saying about him not wanting to be David's father and he's still a villain at heart.
[SPEAKER_04]: But just the way it was presented when he's talking to his younger self, he's like, you know, I lived with him and I experienced all his thoughts and everything and now I have, you know, I don't want to hurt him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have basically, I have empathy for him.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not saying, I know I'm going to die, so I better figure something out so that we can end this conflict.
[SPEAKER_04]: The message he's trying to say is, I now understand this person and so I don't want him to be my enemy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's still a disconnect there with the way that he's acted over the past couple of seasons.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm just going to have to live with that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I also think that when I was reading the re-interviews, I read several, it seems pretty clear that season three was pretty much up in the air until they sat down and writers and sort of writing it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, yeah, they didn't want to do some of the things.
[SPEAKER_06]: They didn't know the switch thing.
[SPEAKER_06]: So there's a lot of this stuff where I think that like, you know, all these
[SPEAKER_06]: themes about parenthood and being raised and nurture versus nurture like that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Some of that stuff was baked in, but a lot of it was, I think, a pretty radical shift in the focus of Legion, which is not entirely unwelcome, but I do think that they were all, you know, like a fork in the road and calmed down pretty far down this one fork and then decided, oh, this is a better way.
[SPEAKER_06]: And they had to drive cross country to get there.
[SPEAKER_04]: a few things rattle off the chassis uh... when it would have been on to the back onto the right road of those are the things were kind of like what about yeah i think they could have done it in a way that didn't make us say what because all three of us did and then we you know figured out ways that make it makes sense and it feels so much better when you don't have to do those cartwheels
[SPEAKER_06]: You know what it could have been.
[SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if it like it could have been like the death of Lenny like if there'd like been a you know there'd been like a him get saying goodbye to her in the astral plane or something where he because I think that the shadow king entity had some kind of special.
[SPEAKER_06]: found this for that aspect of Lenny and, you know, for him to be kind of regretful about how this rate, but there's like, and at no time that I ever felt like, oh man, this is a real bummer how this timeline's heading.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, he always seemed like stoked with everything it was happening.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the thing is, too, though, that you want it to be a surprise at the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, pulls out his beer.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was a major inversion of expectations because I was like, you know, the loading of the psychic bullet and the army of the psychic warning star.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be some, I didn't know when they started kind of remixing the burly brawl for the Matrix II.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, okay, I could get that in some wire for your craziness.
[SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, they plot the beer.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the next Halloween movie Michael Myers has to deal with Lori Strode at the end.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is just talking about empathy.
[SPEAKER_09]: Right, empathy.
[SPEAKER_09]: Understanding of each other, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I'm gonna go.
[SPEAKER_04]: My number three is the open questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's these are just the ones that stood out for me, not necessarily a complaint, but just some things that I was thinking or hoping might get answered that it didn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we know that in the original timeline, Charles and Gabriel left David and Charles says, I could have, I don't know why I did that.
[SPEAKER_04]: My darling boy, I could only have done it to protect you.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't know why but we presume that he did it to protect him and maybe I think probably he mistakenly thought he was protecting David from fruit by doing that just like David has thought this whole time Yeah, but we just don't know that for sure.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think that's what Sorry, I think that whenever in season one
[SPEAKER_09]: David was doing the chalk drawing of the battle with Charles and the shadow king that that was what the assumption was.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know how much David I mean of course I don't think we didn't know that but I think that he was afraid that you know I guess Charles didn't
[SPEAKER_09]: or didn't really think that he killed the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_09]: His consciousness was still kind of on loose somewhere and fearful that you know he would zero in and find Charles then he'd also find David so he they gave him away to so he couldn't find him but he was already too late.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah that tracks.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean because the the chalkboard thing had Charles and his mom or wife giving David away and then the shadow king finding him afterwards.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what we saw earlier the season was that the shadow king had already entered into baby David before Charles even got home from his trip and then we didn't see what happened after that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I guess we
[SPEAKER_04]: The chalkboard thing wasn't exact, but maybe it was kind of close, you know, what happened where he came home didn't realize that Shadow King was already inside him and feared that that would happen and gave him a way or something.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there's definitely room for unreliable narration and survival.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, throughout the series, really.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, pretty much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, so that whole thing gave David a feeling of being abandoned and unloved and another open question, a big one for me is we don't know who raised him instead.
[SPEAKER_04]: We know he has a sister Amy in season one.
[SPEAKER_04]: They kind of made a big thing about revisiting him and his bed and this mysterious blurred out father figure reading the English world, the English boy in the world to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that, to me, seemed like the show was setting up a mystery that it never solved or revealed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, that could be a false memory.
[SPEAKER_04]: He may not have ever had that book, but he did have foster parents that we don't know who they were.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's an open question that I feel like, you know, in a show about
[SPEAKER_04]: parenting and the importance of parenting, that that feels like a big hole to me that we never got to see.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, especially since his last name was heller or holler, which is his mother's last sister like.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so he never
[SPEAKER_06]: took his adoptive family's name or were they also held her?
[SPEAKER_06]: Was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it,
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't catch it.
[SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, I mean, I did say that in the comics.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's Gabrielle Holler.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I just thought maybe, you know, his or brother or sister, I guess, mother that raised him.
[SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, again, I feel like, you know, doing this, this close examination on Xavier Gabrielle felt like, oh,
[SPEAKER_06]: Very late decision to like, oh, we're going to be time traveling and that's going around the switch.
[SPEAKER_06]: And so we can we can really get into this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: So it's a lot of that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I am too.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just I've got some awkwardness with the names and like you said, these dangling threads.
[SPEAKER_04]: Another one is just the nature of this legion of David doppelgangers in his psyche.
[SPEAKER_04]: I could see them as being either just like manifestations of his fractured psyche either because of his natural mental illness or because of the shadow king or a combination of both.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: For consciousness is that he brought in like we've talked about before, but I don't think we really know that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty satisfied that it's it's it's he there's a combination of being abandoned of having a history of mental illness of having a malevolence like it forces like I felt like they didn't I don't feel like those are open questions of me I felt like I got
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm pretty satisfied that I understand what's going on inside his head to the extent that you can't any person.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I guess I wanted a little bit more about that, but I'm not, but I'm okay with it where it is, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I actually like that this show doesn't go out of its way to spoon feed everything, so that's good.
[SPEAKER_04]: One thing about that, do you know the character or multiple man?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Give me mad rocks.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's one of my favorites.
[SPEAKER_04]: Me too, and it kind of reminds me of him seeing David, all those David Hallers, especially in this episode, and it makes me wish Noah Holley would do a multiple man show, because I think he'd do a really good one.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Agreed.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's a couple.
[SPEAKER_06]: He gave me there's a couple of multiple man vibes that I got.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think like the earliest one the season is when he was trying to walk forward, steadily towards the
[SPEAKER_06]: time demon he kept like in reset like the kind of it that there's a lot of kind of yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: I love them seeing yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a few more but instead of going through what do you any of you guys have any of those open questions.
[SPEAKER_06]: You had the ones that I had like we were talking about the time travel and the whited Charles abandoned David.
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I guess like some of the stuff the moral and ethical questions I have from last week about like, you know, they made us such a big deal about like David's a massive asshole for trying to go back and fix time because, you know, it's essentially fooling, sit in the, you know, there's some kind of, you know, that's probably speaking was the first half of this season.
[SPEAKER_06]: I feel like I just- I mean, it's like, got completely abandoned.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, is anyone going to ask the other seven point four billion people on the planet?
[SPEAKER_06]: Whether they want to read it or they want to, like, and it's also weird, like, I don't know, very Star Treky way of time travel and maybe it's consistent with the in-game shit.
[SPEAKER_06]: But, like, the idea, like, I kind of think I would have rather that this timeline is still messed up and banged up, but they essentially sacrifice themselves to save
[SPEAKER_06]: some other timeline.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like that whole them unfold is kind of like disappearing into the mist.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it's very much like, I mean, literally, it's not very much like it's literally.
[SPEAKER_06]: Everything that we just watched all twenty seven episodes don't, didn't happen.
[SPEAKER_06]: It all got, it got like other than the universe taking note of it.
[SPEAKER_06]: None of that stuff really, really happened.
[SPEAKER_06]: Which, you know, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's a kind of like, whoa, shit science fiction concept.
[SPEAKER_09]: But nothing a value has ever lost.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I bought that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't bother me.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I really went through something with this people.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now it's kind of like they died.
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, we still went through it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess it's kind of rude.
[SPEAKER_06]: The road one, you know?
[SPEAKER_06]: The... Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like that.
[SPEAKER_06]: It didn't change the amount of information the universe, but it changed the emotional context of it all.
[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, again, I'm not complaining.
[SPEAKER_06]: It just, it, that does bother me a little bit narratively that it's a little saying elsewhere, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: It's a little bit a little boy holding a snow globe and, you know, except for the lip, it's a baby reaching out to a mobile in this instance.
[SPEAKER_09]: But everything that happened was important to get us to that point.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, I get what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_09]: I have an open question that I was kind of bummed, but maybe we're not supposed to get the answer.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I'll just try to take it on faith that I'm not supposed to know.
[SPEAKER_09]: But what did the stars say?
[SPEAKER_09]: And you can't remember where that came into practice season one when David would say, you know, his his adoptive father, Mr. Haller was an astronomer and they would go out to star gaze and
[SPEAKER_09]: David would tell his father that the stars talked to him, and Mr. Holler would say, yeah, they speak to him too, but David meant it literally.
[SPEAKER_09]: And then over time, once he got to know his one therapist that he worked with on a regular basis, and it was a doctor pool, I believe.
[SPEAKER_09]: And once David kind of trusted the doctor pool, he told him what the star said, but he didn't tell us.
[SPEAKER_04]: So hi, Daddy.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: That was in a different timeline where season three is going to be all around the Cree scroll war and David is actually tell if I had a contact contact with the combatants.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to get that.
[SPEAKER_04]: They were saying SLS.
[SPEAKER_04]: help us.
[SPEAKER_04]: So future Sid in season two, warning of the apocalypse in the end of the world, I suppose, you know, and David was the cause of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess we can just say that's a possible timeline that didn't come to pass.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, I got wife off the board.
[SPEAKER_04]: The all the speculation better arm and right that was the other thing I was going to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't know what happened with that, but it's just something that and you know one thing that helps me feel totally fine about all that kind of stuff is that one episode that happened last season about the multiple timelines.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: And you know what the universe noticed them all.
[SPEAKER_09]: They notice the French fries.
[SPEAKER_06]: They all matter.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then just the mystery of what happens to David, and I have more to say about that at another point, but that's an open question.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd been kind of hoping, oh, let's find out what happens if he actually does get rid of the shadow king and see what his life is like, and we don't get to know that, but I'm okay with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's kind of poetic, not to know.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I would love to see Sid's glorious form because I thought she, I definitely think she's my favorite character.
[SPEAKER_06]: She was the seat stealth protagonist of the whole series.
[SPEAKER_06]: She's dealt with a lot of difficulty with toughness and grace and then with a lot of empathy and compassion in the end.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, great, great art.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, with her, the first thing that comes to mind is, oh, well, she's probably going to end up in Clockworks again.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's not going to have David there to kind of be a catalyst for her wanting to improve or get out or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's a little sad, but what we do know is that Switch seems to know everything and told her that she's going to be glorious.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you just said, maybe
[SPEAKER_06]: Professor X starts his school for gifted youngsters and instead of using her powers to jump her mom's boyfriend's bones, she gets enrolled before all that bullshit happens and gets put on a better path.
[SPEAKER_09]: That's kind of what I was going to.
[SPEAKER_09]: I thought if Professor X begins to school, she might still meet David if David is there and she gets enrolled because a lot of mutants come there after somehow maybe getting into some type of trouble or some sort of event happening because they've used their powers and I guess depending on that power.
[SPEAKER_09]: If they be there hurt someone or it's gotten out of control and nearly hurt someone, they then turned to the school.
[SPEAKER_09]: So it's not always, you know, I remember a great circumstances at folks get led there.
[SPEAKER_09]: So she could still do something whether good or bad and end up there as around still end up meeting David.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because David might be their arch villain because now he doesn't have the shadow king to put any roadblocks to his great power.
[SPEAKER_06]: He could be, he could also be the Cyclops.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean?
[SPEAKER_06]: What's this thing?
[SPEAKER_06]: I was thinking that like, you know, professor actually would still be raising David and he would be like going to his school, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: And I was also thinking like, oh my god, like he imagined how hard professor actually would be on his kid if he was in his school.
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, just to make sure no one thinks that there's playing favorites.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Heavy, he'd be right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Just right.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, I guess I was thinking that Legion would be or David, I guess, would be like one of the leaders of the X-Men in this timeline.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, Professor X had a good job of raising him along Gabrielle.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, Professor, a person like David Holler with all his powers, like we said a few weeks ago, if Bodhi starts shooting lasers out of his eyes, then I'm in trouble.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that on this podcast?
[SPEAKER_04]: I forget, but I mean, you need someone like Professor X to be that guy's dad.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: So hopefully he can do well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, remember what you're number two.
[SPEAKER_09]: My number two, the scene when Ferruq says that David is not worthy of love and which I think this was something because we hear David repeat it a lot.
[SPEAKER_09]: I think David has known and may be feared all along and that's why he keeps repeating that affirmation so often when he says, I'm a good person.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm worthy of love.
[SPEAKER_09]: Ferruq says, no, you're not
[SPEAKER_09]: I think that he says that a lot not for our benefit or for the people in the characters in the show shows benefit to try to convince them.
[SPEAKER_09]: I think he's trying to convince himself.
[SPEAKER_09]: And when Luke says that he... Yeah, it does.
[SPEAKER_09]: He screams and you can just see, gosh, we talk so often about the actors and I just feel like and not enough can be said about how fantastic they all are.
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, Naveed Negabon who plays for Luke.
[SPEAKER_09]: had such amazing acting with just he wasn't even you couldn't even see his eyes he had those sunglasses on when he was getting the psyched up from the the the present freak and and Dan Stevens I mean just I think does so fantastic and I thought he did it so well here when he just looks so defeated after he tells him that and after he screams he just looks like
[SPEAKER_09]: and he's in the straight jacket and it's like he's he's like he's given up and he's just completely defeated and then that's when he starts singing this song mother and wow it was so amazing when he starts singing and then when all of a sudden his mother when Gabriella comes in and you just see the the light
[SPEAKER_09]: come across his face and in the light in his eyes was absolutely amazing.
[SPEAKER_09]: And when she was finally able to give him what he'd been missing his entire life that love and reassurance that everything was going to be okay, he was then able to free himself of those internal and external bonds.
[SPEAKER_09]: And the internal bonds I mean by when you see all of
[SPEAKER_09]: Legion, all the Davids, like coming out of his head and they're all just dancing around and they feel free.
[SPEAKER_09]: And then he let's go of his external bonds, which was for Rook in the form of that straight jacket.
[SPEAKER_09]: That was wonderful visualization, by the way.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so it's a great inversion of that song that the leader meeting of the song instead of like an overbearing mother putting her child in a like a walled off prison.
[SPEAKER_06]: she's released like by giving the love and support and protection that he missed as a baby she's liberating him I thought it's because he's the show's pretty on the nose without uses a song and I feel like this was a great like flip that flip that card table over and I liked it
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, although I think it could be a little more gray area than that because we've seen Gabrielle is pretty shaky and I think Gabrielle is much more stable when Charles is around so I think there's a lot of room for hope that everybody okay, but I also
[SPEAKER_04]: also think there's a little room for the fear that maybe not.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the song is about a protective mother who there's some good things about, but yeah, protective she'll she won't let you fly, but she might let you sing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's on purpose to let a little bit of that doubt in there, maybe maybe not, but maybe
[SPEAKER_09]: No, I actually have that in my no in with my number two that you know we're seeing that positivity that she's able to because you know when the other the like it was last episode when she's talking was said just like she just and maybe it's because Charles isn't there she doesn't have his love and support and she's not stable and she only feels stable when he's there and she's very unsure of herself and and what to do with this baby
[SPEAKER_09]: And so now she's able to do that, give him this love, give him this reassurance, and he feels it from so far away, because we see her singing to him as a baby, as Sid is fighting off the time demons in the basement.
[SPEAKER_09]: So he's feeling this across time, and she's finally able to, you know, and Sid's like, you have to love him like the world depends on it, and she's finally able to do that.
[SPEAKER_09]: But again, if you take the song, like you said, Jason is, if you take it kind of literally, you know, with the lyrics, it is a little dark.
[SPEAKER_09]: And Gabrielle's a little dark, you know, she's not perfect.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, she has her own, she struggles with her own mental illness.
[SPEAKER_09]: She does have her own darkness and and I feel like in the song and I feel like even with Gabrielle herself, whether it's the song or whether it's Gabrielle.
[SPEAKER_09]: She kind of puts her own fears on today.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: And so he could still turn out to be a different kind.
[SPEAKER_09]: He may not be the same kind of mess up.
[SPEAKER_09]: He might be a different kind of mess up.
[SPEAKER_07]: He will.
[SPEAKER_09]: I just think it's a possibility.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in that song that the most speaks to that side of it is Mother's going to make all your nightmares come true.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mother's going to have all of her fears into you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Gabrielle has so many fears and nightmares.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's why I feel like it's deliberate.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's one of the reasons where I was talking about some of this ice thing about some of the subtexts and I like it more, because there is enough of this, like, are we sure this is a happy ending?
[SPEAKER_06]: That like, you just need to watch it and just need to be more commentary, bubbling for it, this kind of, because I think there's probably a lot more of those hidden debts, and I don't have much of his intentional amount, just not, but like, yeah, I can see for years, like people want to say, oh, it's bitter sweeter, it's optimistic people can be like, but what about?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: I just see it as hopeful.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't see it as a happy ending.
[SPEAKER_09]: I just see it as awful because he could turn out to be almost exactly like he is now.
[SPEAKER_09]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_09]: The thing is is that we just know that it's changed.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's, like I've mentioned before, there's three things that kind of contributed to his troubles.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was him being abandoned, and then there was his hereditary, you know, mentally illness and his family.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's gotten rid of the shadow king part.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's no longer abandoned, but that could
[SPEAKER_04]: have its own problems though it looks good and then the hereditary thing is a question so he definitely has a better foundation than he had last time that's why there's room for hope right
[SPEAKER_04]: and the bit there's one thing that's really bittersweet and that is that you know and but I love the way they did it at the end there when said said I didn't do this for you I did it for him and she's she's not opening back up to David anymore and that's good because he did he you know cross the boundary that was too much for her
[SPEAKER_06]: and so but he but she did sort of technically help him even though it was baby innocent baby him and that's nice and so there's like a better sweetness to for me did she help Dave because that's the other thing is the element of like all right there she doing this for David and David's baby she doing this to save the world because you know let's not forget that the way that the game was
[SPEAKER_06]: board of stacked on the table, the David is destroying the world, you know, like all these, like if they didn't go back to fix this problem, yeah, I think it's both, I think it's, I think we're safe the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: She has to do something about day carry was said, why don't we just kill this baby, you know, and well, I mean, but I think that also, but yeah, you're right, but
[SPEAKER_06]: Also, if they killed the baby, that doesn't do anything about the furuk side.
[SPEAKER_06]: And again, I don't like, like, we talked about it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't think he's a good guy, but he's definitely not the homicidal maniac.
[SPEAKER_06]: He was like, you know, thirty years ago.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just think the way she phrased it was that she, I thought this baby deserved to be chance.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: Change the circumstances and give him a chance at something different than what he was raised with.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think you could maybe guess that some of that came from her affection for David himself, but, you know, sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything else on that?
[SPEAKER_09]: Not for me.
[SPEAKER_09]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, Ron.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, yeah, that was my number two too.
[SPEAKER_06]: So I'm just going to continue talking about it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, um, because you know, this is the closest we got to at actual psychic battle.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um,
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, and I like how they're kind of pacing around each other in David's little room of doors.
[SPEAKER_06]: And he's like, oh, you think this is one versus one, one V one, but I'm Legion.
[SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, like, we had the creepy daddy.
[SPEAKER_06]: We had the creepy monster repetition this week.
[SPEAKER_06]: And as I was thinking, I just kind of darkly comedic thought as Furuk is his blasting shards of David's consciousness into oblivion.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, is this therapeutic?
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, is he actually like taking out these like, the harmful personalities is going to leave David Prime and I almost thought that there was going to be like, that was going to be how they, they, they, they got some kind of happy ending that really helps him.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he's like, you know, he still can't take back what he did, but he's now saying is not going to destroy the world, but like, I thought that was pretty funny.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, it would be cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and then the whole like, you know, the early brawler that all the David's collapsed on for Luke and he exploded him out.
[SPEAKER_06]: And of course, the mother, you know, that I'm so happy that Legion went out the way it came, you know, like they
[SPEAKER_06]: had the big splashy musical number, emotional number.
[SPEAKER_06]: And then, you know, David's like once he blew himself out of straight jacket, like we've seen every, every season, it seems like there's been like this moment where he comes into his power.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like last episode, or last season, it's the one where, you know, he taxes this monstrous chick.
[SPEAKER_06]: And you think it's like the size of a house and a body in that's like he does something he just crushes.
[SPEAKER_06]: And when he blows out there and he's like this time to die, he's just,
[SPEAKER_06]: Choke and it's so brutal, like the other for Ruka saying, oh, with infinite imaginations, we can't think of anything but weapons.
[SPEAKER_06]: And Dave's not even doing that.
[SPEAKER_06]: This is just a primal.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, pulled open the two thousand one primate strangulation going on here.
[SPEAKER_06]: This side was great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, agreed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, my number two, I just love that they came around to the theme of empathy versus fighting and subverted our expectations and everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when Fruke sees Charles gripping that knife, he says, such a disappointment, we can make anything we fancy in the Serena of infinite promise.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is what we come up with.
[SPEAKER_04]: Weapons were surely we have more imagination than that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I feel like that's the show and know a holly talking to all of us and be probably wishes the leaders of the world would hear that statement.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it doesn't have to be the astroplane that he's talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: It can just be reality.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's a bit heavy handed of a message if you think of it that way, but I like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's this commentary on all the conflict in the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: Use your imagination and also that you know the whole thing about they respect our right to exist and we respect theirs and wars not the answer it's the problem and all this kind of thing and and that you know this whole thing about if you know somebody you you can't hate them or if you understand somebody
[SPEAKER_04]: Just all these messages are the kinds of things that I wish you know David could beam into everybody's head around the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: So just deepen my love for the show even more to have the final episode be all about that.
[SPEAKER_09]: We need.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we need it.
[SPEAKER_09]: We need.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and we need some.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not just glasses and some.
[SPEAKER_09]: We need we need some some cake.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: And we need for we need for roots.
[SPEAKER_09]: Glasses throw in some orgasms.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, if you guys have you guys seen.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_06]: Have you guys seen the German Netflix series dark.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not yet, but everyone keeps writing on it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Because the effect that they used to wear for Rick was looking at David's life and it's got this weird like ninety degree shift in bifurcation.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's exactly how they do the credit sequence of dark and it's such a great.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's such a cool effect.
[SPEAKER_06]: The unsettling kind of need effect.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it's great to kind of like project that over for Luke's days.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought it was a great great.
[SPEAKER_06]: The visual storytelling.
[SPEAKER_06]: on this show the way they sell effortlessly these comic book ideas with just you know the psychedelic filmmaking is is brilliant is dark worth watching
[SPEAKER_06]: Let me get back to you on that.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm almost done with season one and it is bewildering, but watchable and just fascinating, but I haven't decided whether it's his bullshit yet.
[SPEAKER_06]: It just builds up and you're like, you know, is this like X files kind of thing?
[SPEAKER_06]: I'll let you know when I get done with season one.
[SPEAKER_06]: cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm really curious.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we might all know.
[SPEAKER_09]: Gosh.
[SPEAKER_09]: Number one.
[SPEAKER_09]: This is my last number one on Legion.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I can do two.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I mean, I've never bought it because essentially Lucy in this guy is Legion part of the movie, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's Noah Hawley.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Super creepy.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're promising another episode of the spotcast.
[SPEAKER_08]: You're committing.
[SPEAKER_06]: We ought to have what that would be cool because I know Jim and I are going to write whatever this unfold move is you can do this in joint podcast a good deal.
[SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it comes out in the fall.
[SPEAKER_06]: We'll talk about it.
[SPEAKER_06]: We can make this happen.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think that would be good.
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I just I didn't think about that until literally just now it's my last number one on Legion.
[SPEAKER_09]: I just I wish I'd had more of a moment to maybe cry about it.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm kind of kidded over with now I'm getting all emotional just basically just the ending which we we've talked a lot about but
[SPEAKER_09]: I thought it was really beautiful and poetic.
[SPEAKER_09]: There were a few things.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm in agreement.
[SPEAKER_09]: I was trying to wrap my brain around the whole, you know, the switch with Veruch, you know, how a, like, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_09]: Season one and season two.
[SPEAKER_09]: We had this and season three.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's now this.
[SPEAKER_09]: I get it where we don't quite have that pinpoint moment to be able to identify and, you know, make sense of that.
[SPEAKER_09]: But that's how I've made sense of it.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I'm able to make peace with it and move on because to me, the show isn't
[SPEAKER_09]: Just about the ending, it's about the journey.
[SPEAKER_09]: And for me, this was the most satisfying and fulfilling journey I might have ever had.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'll put it up there with Breaking Bad.
[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like that was such a great story from beginning to end.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I was completely satisfied.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I was never unhappy.
[SPEAKER_09]: Like I can just pick up on any episode of Breaking Bad and be thrilled with it and not think, oh, this is a filler or this is not one of their best.
[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like they were all their best.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like all the Legion episodes were the best.
[SPEAKER_09]: I was really happy with the ending.
[SPEAKER_09]: really like that they were able to come together.
[SPEAKER_09]: They both fruit and David both grew together, fruit, understanding and uprising and seeing humanity.
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, beyond his own view of godliness and he got to see life through both sets of their eyes.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think all of this had to happen, everything that we had in season one, season two, what we didn't see, all of David's thirty-two years had to happen for fruit to believe in peace and get to this point.
[SPEAKER_09]: And that the whole show for me was about like empathy, mental growth, self renewal, I've said that already.
[SPEAKER_09]: I think a key theme in the series, the line of nothing of values ever lost.
[SPEAKER_09]: And that's what
[SPEAKER_09]: I hold on to for this show and I don't I don't try to think of too much that you know now that everyone has kind of been blipped and gets to restart and some of them might have the same path and the same journey others their their lives could change and be different but it doesn't for me anyway negate anything that we've that has come before
[SPEAKER_09]: So I just I really love how it was wrapped up.
[SPEAKER_09]: I was satisfied with it.
[SPEAKER_09]: It was a very emotional finale.
[SPEAKER_09]: I cried a lot.
[SPEAKER_09]: Not usually big cryer, but I was for this.
[SPEAKER_09]: So that's that's my number one is just basically the ending and how it was wrapped up.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I know we've talked a lot about it.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know if you guys have anything else you want to add to that.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I thought so.
[SPEAKER_06]: I need another week to think about my thoughts of the finale to before I can say.
[SPEAKER_06]: I can say it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I know that I don't think it's like raised or lowered my estimation to series.
[SPEAKER_06]: And like I came in thinking that this is a great series.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I left, you know, thinking it's a great series.
[SPEAKER_06]: So it's certainly it's not like my perfect finale.
[SPEAKER_06]: But and
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, as I was reading these interviews today, there was a people kept asking like, Holly about like, you know, Marvel has any plans of doing anything with this continuity.
[SPEAKER_06]: And he's like, you know, I'm not even thinking about that because, but one of me said, you know, you could do a lot worse than ground the next spin series or build an X-Men series around.
[SPEAKER_06]: Dan Steven.
[SPEAKER_06]: Dan Steven, thank you.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm like, that's all I can think about like this.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's, I hate the Marvel.
[SPEAKER_06]: It feels like Marvel is throwing away a lot of great shows like Daredevil, Punisher.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like Fox being acquired by Disney is the same thing that happened to David and Sid's lives.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's not a universe.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's all just gone.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it's not all been such a shining rainbow as with Fox, but like there's, there's some good stuff here, just like there's some good stuff on the Netflix, like the Fender series and I,
[SPEAKER_06]: I hate it that feels like they're throwing all these babies out with the the bath water because I kind of want to see I kind of want to see a young X-Men built around Harry Lloyd like he's he's a great professor and Yeah, I just I hope that there's some way to salvage kind of some this stuff because it's it's it's really good.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's really good.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want it in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it just feels like this you know Disney's like
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you're doing a show.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, you should cancel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, oh, it's over the season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead and finish.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I agree with you, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love to see more of Dan Stevens as Legion mixing it up with the rest of the X-Men universe.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: And Harry Lloyd, he really, you know, I thought he was really great in game of thrones that the, you know, a little amount of time that we had him as, you know, basirous on season one.
[SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, he was so different in playing Charles and I thought he really
[SPEAKER_09]: you know, showed a lot of what we love about Charles Xavier in that role.
[SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, we talked a lot about David in getting the mothers love that he needed, but he also got it from his dad.
[SPEAKER_09]: He clearly also had some daddy issues.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, let me be your father.
[SPEAKER_06]: I know I wasn't there for you, but then the hug like, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I'm a mother and I don't have a son.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I have a different, I have a daughter.
[SPEAKER_09]: So there's that mother-daughter relationship.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I will not pretend to understand what it's like to be a father and be a father to a son.
[SPEAKER_09]: But I can imagine anyway because I am a parent and I understand that parental relationship.
[SPEAKER_09]: But my gosh, when he's got David and he's trying to talk to him and he says, I wasn't there for you.
[SPEAKER_09]: You needed me, your mother, and we gave you away.
[SPEAKER_09]: and he says I adore you and that will never change and he tells him that he could have only you know given him a way to protect him and he even he impethizes him within that moment because David looks at him and he starts to cry and he says I was a baby and he says I'll never know what that's like the pain of it to be abandoned but I'm here now and I want to make it right
[SPEAKER_09]: So please my darling boy, let me be your father.
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I lost it.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I even get a little much, I'm just thinking about it now.
[SPEAKER_09]: He got, he was getting everything he needed and I just loved it so much.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's like the love was like being thrown at me.
[SPEAKER_09]: I felt so much through the TV screen.
[SPEAKER_09]: I was like, I felt enveloped in this love.
[SPEAKER_06]: I want a dad, a grown steep and sexy, unprofessional ex too.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it was just great.
[SPEAKER_09]: Harry Lloyd did fantastic.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I thought, you know, I bought it every bit of it.
[SPEAKER_09]: And then he was so adorable when he came home, you know, to Gabrielle.
[SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, he tells her, she's like, you know, I saw demons.
[SPEAKER_09]: And he's like, yeah, he did.
[SPEAKER_09]: I saw a monkey with a king and it's good.
[SPEAKER_09]: And so our son is an adult.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and we had to fight a mad tyrant.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's like, sounds like you got off light.
[SPEAKER_09]: Um, I just thought it was it was beautiful and I don't know.
[SPEAKER_09]: It did it for me.
[SPEAKER_09]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, I could change my mind tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_09]: I do I do make a bad habit of this is how I feel today and if I rewatch it or come back to it later and then I'm gonna have like maybe different feelings about it.
[SPEAKER_09]: But for today, this is where I'm at.
[SPEAKER_04]: Forever immortalized on the leading podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're on do you have a number one?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I guess I want to talk about Carrie and Carrie.
[SPEAKER_06]: I really liked Carrie with the C louder milk and I was always lukewarm on Carrie with the K louder milk because her thing was fighting and Miss Middunder is not good at fighting.
[SPEAKER_06]: And like it's really painful even when they're doing stop motion action that I don't think she can pull it off and
[SPEAKER_06]: Having said all that, um, I thought it was really powerful than combining their forces.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't think it made that much sense about like, oh, double the life force, double the time eating.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, but it was like a Star Trek thing.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was very, but it was very powerful like her aging through the fight.
[SPEAKER_06]: And then, you know, it was worth at the end for her, the call him old man and him like, I don't think you get to call me that anymore.
[SPEAKER_06]: And then like, how about brother?
[SPEAKER_06]: that was very heart-melty too.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, like, I always love the concept of them.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I even don't mind her as, like, you know, some of the dramatic stuff she had to do.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just that it's too bad that she was a fighting person.
[SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, it's just not stated the art, the kicking ass.
[SPEAKER_06]: And then that's the thing, it's like, in season one, I noticed all that, but everything else, there's a couple of creepy things about the effects work and stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: This show has gotten so much better.
[SPEAKER_06]: at either going like, you know, over the top kind of, you know, West Anderson, like the floating airship to add, then like, it doesn't look really real, but it's like cooler than real, or just doing really good, just nailing a special effects.
[SPEAKER_06]: And she was always just kind of like, man, I don't feel like she ever, like,
[SPEAKER_06]: put in like the effort it would take or maybe it's a stunt coordination, maybe it's a direction.
[SPEAKER_06]: But that character never came in together as a fighter, but I'm glad that her and Carrie had a nice brother sister moments and I felt like that was a great arc at at the end and another one of those tear jerker moments in the finale.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, counterpoint, I really liked their relationship through the series and it was really interesting because they're so different and yet they're so inextricably tied together.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was really fun to watch.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I always wonder how the two actors get along.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to be a fly on the wall and see if it's a similar relationship.
[SPEAKER_06]: It seems like because when I looked at a check-ter Instagram app today because I was trying to get a breed on like
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, listen, smack around a bit about her combat skills.
[SPEAKER_06]: Let me see what type of person.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's a lot of her with Kirk, Kirk, what's his name?
[SPEAKER_06]: Isn't that the guy that plays the, the, the mail router milk?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: But there's a lot of them kind of piling around and it seems like that they, they have a nice relationship on an office screen.
[SPEAKER_06]: That feels a lot like the characters relationship.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I, you know, I never, I never was taken out of it thinking that her fighting wasn't good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe now if I go back and watch with that in mind, I will be.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just thought of her as this kind of brute force person who loved to fight and didn't like to think about things in a very, what am I trying to say?
[SPEAKER_04]: It just wasn't very thoughtful about she just wanted to be, you know, being action all the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't really respect that kind of behavior, but I still kind of liked her anyway because she was just so like clear about what she was all about and what she wanted.
[SPEAKER_04]: But also more probably just because it was fun to watch the dynamic between her and male carry who was so different, also intelligent and kind of goofy and
[SPEAKER_04]: he was kind of hesitant about things kind of like I'm being right now and she was just so the opposite of that so direct except sometimes there was a little bit of role reversal going on which was really fun too but um I just love their dynamic and I thought she hurt her personality I probably don't know if I would like her very much if she was in my life but it was really fun for me to watch on TV and see that dynamic.
[SPEAKER_09]: Bill Irwin is who played Carrie Latterwell.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's good.
[SPEAKER_04]: So where are we?
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you got any more?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, that's good for me if we're in the room.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, for my, let's see, I'm going to turn the page.
[SPEAKER_04]: For my number one, it was a lot about the resolution of the series via this, you know, time travel, doover mechanism and also the change in in for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we've really talked that out a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the only thing I can see left here is I really enjoyed that the show ended with happy Jack playing.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's from the who I think.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because that was the song that played at the very beginning of the series with David growing up as a child.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a baby and blowing up his car and his science class or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was sort of ironic because the lyrics are like the kids couldn't hurt Jack.
[SPEAKER_04]: They tried and tried and tried.
[SPEAKER_04]: They couldn't prevent Jack from feeling happy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now you get the sense that maybe this time the song is literal or maybe not.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it was just a nice loop back to the beginning of the series.
[SPEAKER_04]: I always like when the story can tie it back to the beginning like that and it really, really fit and it just brought me back to the feeling of when it all started and it's just a nice, close feeling of closure and here we go again.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the beginning of a fantasy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: So that closed loop.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Notes.
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I have notes.
[SPEAKER_09]: I was a little bit sad thinking about said not having her second childhood that she had with Melania and Oliver that she won't get to have that.
[SPEAKER_09]: But maybe this next one will be good.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_09]: Now, I watch this show live.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know how you guys watch it, but at the end of the episode, whenever during the first watch, and I always watch it, they always repeat it.
[SPEAKER_09]: If you're watching it live, they air it, and then they air it again, and repeat it.
[SPEAKER_09]: Now, after the first episode, they had the thing that came up on the screen that said, press the button, press button to start again.
[SPEAKER_09]: I can do it while it's got that.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I thought that was fun.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_09]: I think that's about all of my notes at this point that we've covered just about everything else.
[SPEAKER_06]: Same.
[SPEAKER_06]: I got it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I, like, I already talked about, I really loved the idea of then formulating their psychic weapons at a little loop.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, it's like Harry Potter's style.
[SPEAKER_06]: Pulling stuff out of their heads.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought that was, and Xavier pulled out the single bullet.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just, I think that's not as cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: That I guess it's a morning star that kind of spiked ball at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I remember when they used to do battle in the Astro plane in the New Mutants and X-Men comics where Legion debuted, they would have women like that that kind of glowed.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: I remember like in the climax of the shadow King Moore that I remember Professor X like met him on Astro plane at like a full set of gleaming psychic armor.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I kind of wondered because David pulled out a big glowing ball and then Professor X pulled out this little tiny one and it was a bullet.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that means it's but I also wondered if that was supposed to be showing that David has more raw power.
[SPEAKER_04]: Professor Axe is more tightly controlled and focused.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then since you brought that up, he also pulled a fish out, which is pretty much a reference to what?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's Iker's guy, baby.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: First I actually, yeah, it's like, but it's a Babelfish.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I didn't know that, but... Yeah, so for people who don't know, and hitchhikers guide, you put, it's called the Bable Fish, and you stick it in your ear, and then you can understand any language.
[SPEAKER_05]: Rima, were you popular in high school?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that what the problem is?
[SPEAKER_06]: No.
[SPEAKER_08]: I would not say that at all.
[SPEAKER_06]: You missed out on one of the classics.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I did.
[SPEAKER_06]: What else?
[SPEAKER_06]: I think that's it for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is it for me?
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's see, when Frook pulled that trick of making it seem like he was shot and then he pulled the red scarf out of the wound.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did he do that at some other point in the series?
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't remember because I wasn't very impressed with like how kind of like clever and playful it all was.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I noticed David has one of those blue glowing wristwatches on now.
[SPEAKER_04]: And uh, I don't know where that came from because I thought he talked it all out and thought he shouldn't have one, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, isn't that what Carrie made for him because switch wasn't able to
[SPEAKER_06]: He didn't happen anyways.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I said because I thought some but that's the whole problem as I thought he gave it to somebody Or like didn't he yeah, he slapped it on for root and blast him through the door.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought that maybe not Yeah, none of that happened anyways.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you're a universe to do everything
[SPEAKER_04]: So when fruit wraps David in the straight jacket of himself, or no, he's still there though.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he says, do you know why you failed?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because under all your anger, there's a baby scared small, given away by his mother and father.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're wearing headphones when you listen to that, it shifts from ear to ear.
[SPEAKER_04]: Scared isn't one ear small as in the other.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe you feel like fruit was in my head.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I really like that because I've always heard it said that anger is a secondary emotion with other vulnerable emotions underneath like it could be fear or hurt frustration or rejection or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just another instance where this show, it's all about psychological phenomenon and I love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's about all I got.
[SPEAKER_09]: I have one more, sorry.
[SPEAKER_09]: Good.
[SPEAKER_09]: Did you guys catch the line when both fruits and Charles and David, they're at the end and they're all like, okay, we're all good, truths, uh, fruits us together, you know, hey come and see me when you're grown together, we'll rule the world.
[SPEAKER_09]: David looks at Einstein says, hmm, no, I don't think I will.
[SPEAKER_09]: Now, what where else did that line come from?
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_09]: Captain America.
[SPEAKER_04]: He said it in in in in in game.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh No, that was a that was a big line in in game when he's like no, I don't think I will and Yeah, don't spoil what it's for people haven't seen it, but I thought Holly said he didn't go and see end game until after he finished he didn't so there's like that's the second like parallel to in game between the time travel and
[SPEAKER_04]: And he sighed and then he went back in time and he, he adjusted the script.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I just got one of switches.
[SPEAKER_09]: Little.
[SPEAKER_06]: Someone check for baby teeth at the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
[SPEAKER_06]: They're just a chick.
[SPEAKER_06]: Let's all over to four.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, go for the news.
[SPEAKER_09]: Okay, a couple of items and like you mentioned earlier around there were a lot of interviews with Holly some weeks you get nothing and then you get to the finale and there's more than what we can take in.
[SPEAKER_09]: There's a lot of interview here.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'll try to cut some of this short for time, but this one is from the Hollywood Reporter.
[SPEAKER_09]: First question they say, how much does the Legion finale fit your original version
[SPEAKER_09]: of the series' eventual ending.
[SPEAKER_09]: He says on a literal basis, the switch character didn't really come into being until we sat down to talk about season three, so a lot of it changed.
[SPEAKER_09]: The emphasis on time, and of course time being what gives stories meaning and what gives people regrets, all of what was discovered along the way.
[SPEAKER_09]: But the idea that the story of David and Sid would reach this point and that David would be on this precipice of
[SPEAKER_09]: He is going to be good or is he going to be bad and and that would have to resolve itself I think that was always there in the makeup of it and obviously the conversation that started about Charles and Gabrielle and about his parents and about childhood and raising kids and all of that I think was really unraveled as I went through as I realized while I was writing it with the story was really about
[SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, he says when they just sat down and talked about three was brought in.
[SPEAKER_09]: So maybe that's why she wasn't as fully developed like he said Jason.
[SPEAKER_09]: Next question, with a finale now out in the wild, what can you say about what you imagined for the totality of Legion now that you can speak freely about the ending?
[SPEAKER_09]: Holly says, I think the original idea was let's take the genre out of it and think about it as a story.
[SPEAKER_09]: And if it works as a great drama, then when you add the genre back into it, it'll only be more exciting because you'll be able to play with all of those tools that you don't have in a traditional dramatic story.
[SPEAKER_09]: And as I explored it in those opening weeks of figuring out what the show wanted to be, I was very adamant that if we were going to tell a mental illness story, we were going to tell it.
[SPEAKER_09]: We weren't going to use it as a launching pad until like, oh, he's not crazy.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's a superhero show.
[SPEAKER_09]: But the layers of that are what was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_09]: David says it at the end of the first season.
[SPEAKER_09]: He tells Sid that the most dangerous thing about having a mental illness is that your mental illness convinces you that you don't have it.
[SPEAKER_09]: And then if you relax and you accept it and you go, have these abilities and the scroll loves me and everything's great.
[SPEAKER_09]: How do you know that's not just because you've gone off your meds and you're feeling great about things?
[SPEAKER_09]: It's the insidious nature of the disease.
[SPEAKER_09]: It convinces you you don't have it.
[SPEAKER_09]: But again, he did accept that he didn't have it and then of course was confronted with the fact that in the end of season two, he both had these abilities and there was something profoundly disturbed about him and yet he couldn't really face that head on.
[SPEAKER_09]: And so season three becomes a narcissistic battle against reality for David saying, no, no, this is my time.
[SPEAKER_09]: These timeters who are coming to destroy the universe
[SPEAKER_09]: They can't come because this is my time.
[SPEAKER_09]: The level of, I'm the most important being in the universe was, I mean, as Mother says, if you can go back in time and stop the Holocaust and he's like, no, I was talking about me.
[SPEAKER_09]: I showed you the kind of self involvement that he was working under.
[SPEAKER_09]: The question from there becomes A, how do you keep the audience from turning on him so much that they are now hate watching this show?
[SPEAKER_09]: And they don't want any kind of resolution for him that's positive and B, how do you get any kind of resolution for him that is positive, but not just for him, for everybody.
[SPEAKER_06]: That was the question.
[SPEAKER_06]: That was one of the ones that threw me.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, everybody's life is better now.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think that's in quotes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we didn't really talk about Lenny either.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess Lenny is just going to be.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was going to say this show made a big point about like he can't fix that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like this doesn't like
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, they're like I said, the ethics and morality of this I feel were not addressed because I left that bliny thing thinking there's no possible way that fixing David makes any of this right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, Lenny's going to go down in different paths now and it's probably not going to be a happy one because she's probably still going to be hooked on drugs and everything, but at least she won't meet a girl in a cult and have a baby with her and then be forced to live through the baby's life in like three minutes and then kill herself.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: But I mean, if she, if she never meets David, I mean, maybe, maybe she'll have some bad, but maybe she'll land on some good.
[SPEAKER_09]: If she never has, you know, meets David.
[SPEAKER_09]: If David doesn't go down that same path and meet Lenny and they don't end up in clock, clock works together, you know.
[SPEAKER_06]: She's still never going to have that child that she loves like that relationship is not going to happen for sure.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that's where it's like, I know I know what to show wanted me to feel like that week.
[SPEAKER_06]: And now I feel like the show wants me to forget about that aspect of it.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, when they made us feel so hard, that was hard watching Lenny go through all of that.
[SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so next question, where do you feel we land on David in the end after he gets the reset and gets to live his life again starting as a baby?
[SPEAKER_09]: Holly says, we live in a world where this nature versus nurture question is yet to be resolved and it's probably both.
[SPEAKER_09]: But my sense of the timeline is that Xavier and Gabrielle are going to remember what happened and so they'll be able to raise David quite deliberately knowing the path that he ended up on and wanting to avoid that for him.
[SPEAKER_09]: and that may involve for his mother getting some help for herself in order to be a better role model for him, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_09]: So the great thing about it ending on that kind of loop is that the idea of press the button and watch again, maybe something different will happen.
[SPEAKER_04]: And man, I wonder if they'll ever tell him the story of when his future fucked up self came back and caused them to rethink their parenting strategy.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, uh, next item that I have is from Deadline.com.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's just a quick snippet of an interview with Jeff Loeb, who's the Marvel TV chief.
[SPEAKER_09]: Deadline asks him, what's open information is that Legion wraps up its three season run on FX tonight.
[SPEAKER_09]: The Noah Holly Helm series was a very different type of show for Marvel and some people's mind in very much indicative of your scope at the same time.
[SPEAKER_09]: I know you've talked about this a bit before, but looking back over the three seasons of Legion, what is your perspective on the series, Noah, and maybe even more Legion down the line?
[SPEAKER_09]: Loeb says it's a remarkable show created and visualized by an extraordinary filmmaker.
[SPEAKER_09]: Noah carried this from the start, told us how he wanted the show to begin and how he wanted it to end, and we've respected that.
[SPEAKER_09]: Having FX is our partner made it very exciting as well from both a creative and marketing standpoint.
[SPEAKER_09]: As to the future, that world and those characters will always be there.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's our hope that Noah will want to return to them in any capacity he thinks is worth telling.
[SPEAKER_09]: Effects remains a huge priority for us because we can tell those unexpected stories there, and John Linger is something of a visionary himself.
[SPEAKER_09]: They get us and we get them.
[SPEAKER_09]: We like all of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's cool, but from reading, yeah, about no, he's got this movie and Fargo and another couple of things and a novel to write and Marvel's taken over Disney now and I just would totally shock if he ever did return.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nice thought, but it's a nice story.
[SPEAKER_09]: I agree with all of that.
[SPEAKER_09]: I really don't see.
[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like he kind of said what he wanted to say.
[SPEAKER_09]: He told the story he wanted to tell and I feel like he's like, okay, this is, you know, we're putting the baby to bed and I'm moving on to other things and I don't think he'll ever revisit.
[SPEAKER_09]: I could see him maybe being, maybe almost like a consultant if somebody else wanted to pick it up and they wanted him to, you know, maybe some input, but I don't think he'll ever write or be as involved as what he was with Legion.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's just my
[SPEAKER_04]: and plus the show yeah the the viewership was so low yeah dance Stevens's movie star material so hopefully he'll he'll keep doing bigger and better things
[SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_09]: A couple of them are moving on into Fargo.
[SPEAKER_09]: Got Amber Mithener is in season four and oh, she's Jeremy, Jeremy Harris.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: If you watched Fargo, she's going to be in season four.
[SPEAKER_09]: And Jeremy Harris, who played Tom, Tom, Tommy, but Tommy, I said it in a long, every time.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's also going to be in season four.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there's another guy that got sweet.
[SPEAKER_06]: He vote out the series.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, a bit before his time.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, again, I'm glad we get to see more of him in Fargo.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that it?
[SPEAKER_09]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we got a ton of feedback from you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: I kept saying, your chances are running out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: People jumps on that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually cut a bunch of stuff out, but they're still just in the interest of time, but they're still a whole bunch left to read.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a couple of calls.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to play
[SPEAKER_04]: The calls first, and I haven't listened to this one from Emily Reeves, but I think she sent it before the final episode, so let's see what she has to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's up guys, it's Emily Reeves here.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Friday night so as of yet I have not seen the new episode of Legion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very much anticipating it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a great ride.
[SPEAKER_01]: Legion has been so good and I enjoyed every minute of it and we'll probably go back and rewatch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you guys for an amazing podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a lot of hours of enjoyment and entertainment out of listening to you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was really great that there was a podcast for a show like this because this can be a bit of a mind-bender.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really nice to hear people's thoughts and opinions on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for all the hours of effort and time that you put in.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very, very much enjoyed and I really appreciate all you guys do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So talk to you later.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_06]: Emily.
[SPEAKER_06]: Hi, praise.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's been a labor of love.
[SPEAKER_09]: This is, you know, I know I sit here a lot of times going, I don't know what the hell just happened.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what happened in that episode, but, you know, it's fun to talk about regardless if you know what's happening or not.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it helps me appreciate it a lot more because I have to think about it and then it figured out better.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and then our second call is from Steve Brown.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Rima Jason and Aeron.
[SPEAKER_03]: I went reverse.
[SPEAKER_03]: Steve and this is for the series finale of Legion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I started to watch it a second time and realized that I'm going to have all the same questions I think at the end of watching it a second time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just going to give my initial reaction and I don't know I may be in the minority.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was a little
[SPEAKER_03]: dissatisfied and I hate to say that because I really wanted to love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really wanted it to land well and I just don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm hoping when I listen to your guys' thoughts on it, you can change my mind that maybe it was a better ending than what I thought and so I can watch it again with a clear perspective.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my initial thoughts are, are we to understand that this Marvel universe does not have a multiverse, even though the show itself established the multiverse last season by showing us all the different
[SPEAKER_03]: dated that could be out there, but yet this one goes back to the whole back to the future Terminator thing of when you change the future, the future people fade away.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I don't, I helped me out with this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did love, I absolutely loved the fight scene between Kerry and the, the time-eaters with
[SPEAKER_03]: with Sid wielding the shotgun and a scene carry slowly lose it and get older and all that was really just a beautiful scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved, I just, I really like Amber, mid-thunder in the way she's portrayed this character.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I really wanted, like I said, I wanted to love this and I'm going way over time and I've not said
[SPEAKER_03]: anything about switch and or the the fact that it just it or we don't understand that fruit this whole season has been actually a good guy that he's trying to help date it I don't yeah help me out guys because I am thoroughly confused and I guess as far as this podcast goes I won't talk to you later but I'll talk to you on different podcasts
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, I have to ask Steve if we helped him out through the podcast.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, I mean, we were definitely here in what he was saying, and we had a lot of the same issues ourselves.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just, um, yeah, like I think this is, uh, the, the, not everything connected in a little bit messy.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's still on good positive, but, uh,
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, it definitely did not connect the lot of the, the, the dots.
[SPEAKER_06]: So we're hoping to connect and left us a lot of things unanswered.
[SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the one is the hardest thing to understand is just the read what it, what feels like a re-contextualization of the character of the shadow game.
[SPEAKER_06]: they're needed to be a beater to for us to see his kind of understanding that like if not regret over it and be in just an evil person like oh well this this is inefficient or this is this is just too much mass and fast and I don't I don't care for it and I feel like I got that
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, either.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the thing about the multiverse, I mean, what he's referring to, I don't know if people don't know, but in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and in Marvel Comics, the way time works basically is when you go back in time and change something, you just create a new timeline.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the original timeline is still there, but then there's a new timeline with this new reality for whatever was changed.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that is kind of what they seem to be alluding to in that episode with French fries in season two.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the way it did look here is that it was just more linear that because Sidden David changed things for Baby David that they both kind of faded off.
[SPEAKER_04]: But who knows, maybe they faded away and went back to their bodies in their original timeline and everything is the same for them.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then there's a new timeline with a new David.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a little bit sad because then our David still has to deal with all the problems he was trying to fix.
[SPEAKER_04]: I prefer to think of it as no a holly not just adhering too closely to any of that multiverse stuff because it would just be kind of cumbersome to bring into the story that really is pretty much separate.
[SPEAKER_04]: Although then why do that French fry episode?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_09]: because it was fun.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's a multiverse, a multiverse concept, Jason.
[SPEAKER_06]: And they're just being, they're just being, they're just being loyal to that idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alright, now we got a bunch of emails.
[SPEAKER_04]: Read my one.
[SPEAKER_09]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_09]: First one is from Jamie Murrino.
[SPEAKER_09]: Hey guys, long time first time.
[SPEAKER_09]: Let me begin by saying thank you for all the time you've spent putting forth an insightful and quality podcast for not only Legion, but other shows as well.
[SPEAKER_09]: Even though you may not hear from all of your listeners, I'm sure there are plenty like myself that users show as an outlet and release valve for such a layered and unique show like Legion.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm writing to you after having just seen the finale.
[SPEAKER_09]: I give it eight out of ten random song sequences.
[SPEAKER_09]: But just because it is a B does not mean I did not love it.
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean I'm a huge pink Floyd fan and they decided to play freaking mother.
[SPEAKER_09]: And in just one instance of subversion, use it as a positive force for David instead of the overbearing prose that Roger Waters originally wrote it as.
[SPEAKER_09]: That scene had me silent.
[SPEAKER_09]: Obviously, everyone has their own personal perspective on everything, but this hit me in the way I feel and know a holly intended.
[SPEAKER_09]: Some people may not think so, but I have always seen David as a figure to pity even when doing the wrong thing.
[SPEAKER_09]: That is one of the many beautiful things about this show.
[SPEAKER_09]: This episode showed that he just needed a damn hug.
[SPEAKER_09]: He wanted to do the right thing, but did he ever really have the proper guidance to do so?
[SPEAKER_09]: He may not have had good people in his life, but they couldn't have understood the situation that David was in, much less what was in his head.
[SPEAKER_09]: When given the proper opportunity, he made the right choice, and he realized the damage he had done.
[SPEAKER_09]: We need more of these types of solutions.
[SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, I can go on, but I just wanted to vent a bit and really to say thank you again.
[SPEAKER_09]: Albuquerque, New Mexico.
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, ABQ.
[SPEAKER_09]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_08]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_06]: John at Hoskins.
[SPEAKER_06]: None of this happened.
[SPEAKER_06]: Press button to start again.
[SPEAKER_06]: Sid stays in clock works.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think that's a IQ.
[SPEAKER_04]: This week when I asked for feedback, I put it in the front of the house.
[SPEAKER_09]: Jason started the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_09]: He loves this high case.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's in clockwork, but she's gonna be glorious, don't worry.
[SPEAKER_04]: Casey Robertson says, what an episode, know it new, how to start, continue, and end a great show.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love my GOT, but this is how it's supposed to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good mix of happy endings and sad ones.
[SPEAKER_04]: My favorite moment, though, was the sappy, how about brother between Carrie and Carrie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Gonna miss this show.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks again for a great podcast, guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for watching.
[SPEAKER_09]: Laura Willie Swing says, greetings all third and fourth dimensional beings.
[SPEAKER_09]: What a beautiful ending.
[SPEAKER_09]: Legion ended exactly how I had wished but was too afraid to hope for.
[SPEAKER_09]: I liked that the show completely circled around again, retreading its Sid Barrett, the Wall theme, and ending with the song that kicked off the show, the Who's Happy Jack.
[SPEAKER_09]: I also appreciate that current for root turns the weapons into beer and has a civilized sit down with Charles rather than a battle.
[SPEAKER_09]: Perhaps Noah Holley's commentary on how we can sit down with our adversaries and actually talk and listen to each other.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't think that is an art many are willing to practice nowadays.
[SPEAKER_09]: It gives huge props to know a Holly for creating a show that was intellectually challenging, aesthetically beautiful, emotionally layered, endlessly entertaining and never ever predictable.
[SPEAKER_09]: Despite the low viewership of the show, I can bet that the actors, writers and anyone else involved in the show have delighted in working on something so unique and creative.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's sad to say goodbye to such a groundbreaking series, but on the bright side, with the short number of seasons and episodes, this will be a perfect series for multiple rewatches.
[SPEAKER_09]: Thank you, Rima, Jason, and Aeron for your dedication to the show.
[SPEAKER_09]: It couldn't be easy dissecting something so dense and frankly mind-bending, but you all crushed it.
[SPEAKER_09]: So enjoy a beer.
[SPEAKER_09]: It was so worth the ride.
[SPEAKER_06]: And again, we got Lucy in the sky coming up and it's going to be a lot more of the same.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, thanks Laura.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Laura, I'm glad you stayed with us through the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a pleasure reading your feedback goal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, always.
[SPEAKER_09]: She's been there since beginning.
[SPEAKER_06]: Lucy, Lucy in this guy is like a nicotine patch for Legion.
[SPEAKER_06]: To get the history until the next Noah Hawley of Rodgeck.
[SPEAKER_04]: Fargo in that.
[SPEAKER_06]: I did, man.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's why I guess.
[SPEAKER_09]: So shooting in Chicago, I think this fall.
[SPEAKER_09]: So he's kind of got a couple things going on at the same time.
[SPEAKER_09]: So a next year.
[SPEAKER_06]: He said that it's an October production for a spring release, split scenes, an ambitious turnaround, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's summer for sure.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm excited about that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Daniel Lee, I remade Jason and Aeron.
[SPEAKER_06]: What a journey it's been.
[SPEAKER_06]: However, people may feel about this ending to quote the intro.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's up to history to decide and I think history will look very fondly upon this remarkable heartwarming and psychedelic trip of a TV show.
[SPEAKER_06]: Things I loved.
[SPEAKER_06]: I really loved all the moments with you Charles and David, especially the last one.
[SPEAKER_06]: Charles was finally able to give us some true fatherly love and advice in the sense of inner peace that he's wanted his entire life.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought it was a beautiful way to cap off David's quip before they go into battle.
[SPEAKER_06]: I like this, us.
[SPEAKER_06]: I also thought the final merge and goodbye between Carrie and Carrie was lovely and poetic.
[SPEAKER_06]: The double mirage fight scene was fantastic and Carrie telling an age Carrie to call him brother instead of old man felt like it really well earned ending to their storyline.
[SPEAKER_06]: Although I had serious qualms with how Noah Holley would deal with the David's SID rape story line as soon as it happened, I really appreciated that SID didn't get a forgive David end in.
[SPEAKER_06]: and in fact, the knowledge that she'd be better off without them.
[SPEAKER_06]: Nevertheless, in the show that was, uh, perhaps always about the choices we can make in shitty circumstances, said shows to help an innocent child to deserve better, and so doing gave everyone a chance at a better life.
[SPEAKER_06]: Things I didn't like.
[SPEAKER_06]: The biggest qualms I have are related to Ferruc's sudden heel turn as a genuine fraternal and caring figure.
[SPEAKER_06]: Just last season, he was a psychologically torturing Lini and Oliver literally killed Amy, a storyline that never got resolved,
[SPEAKER_06]: for a sole purpose of fucking what David, and it didn't just seem plausible to me that this guy would in the span of a year, or however much time as a past on the show, completely shift his mindset and even less likely that young for Rook, a completely malevolent, soleless, and sadistic tyrant, will be convinced by a montage of David's life.
[SPEAKER_06]: My was a little annoyed at the amount of daddy X-Macana in his finale, but thus switched in David and did the results were very satisfying so I can't complain that much.
[SPEAKER_06]: In the end, whether the show wasn't without its flaws and what show isn't even breaking bad and the wire had inconsistent seasons.
[SPEAKER_06]: I will always be grateful for an incredible performance as we got out of Aubrey Plaza, Germaine.
[SPEAKER_06]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_06]: Germaine Clement.
[SPEAKER_06]: Amber Middhan, their builder when a Rachel Keller, Navid Nagabam and Dave Dan Stevens.
[SPEAKER_06]: Hey, people's names.
[SPEAKER_06]: They're the worst.
[SPEAKER_06]: You did good.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_06]: The vast majority of whom I have never seen before the show.
[SPEAKER_06]: I also don't think any show has so effectively insanely used musical numbers and is something for your mind to see from the season premieres forever burned into vibring.
[SPEAKER_06]: Lastly, thanks so much for you guys, to you guys for giving this wonderful and unfortunately under-appreciated show the time and insight it deserved.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's been a blast to watch along with you guys.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's so nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was really well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for writing in, Daniel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, this one is a little different.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's from someone who just called himself T. I just started listening to your Legion podcast beginning with season three.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been enjoying it, but just got to season three episode four.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got to say that the kink shaming of folks who enjoy the title daddy was not necessary.
[SPEAKER_04]: The cultists in Legion aren't kinksters.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, with David and control of his cultists crew, I don't think the women even have the ability to consent.
[SPEAKER_04]: And real life consent is key in kink play.
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to enjoy what kinksters do, but there's no need to share your disgust.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, there was no need to even bring kink into the discussion.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll continue to listen, but I felt the need to speak up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do we bring kink into the discussion?
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, look, I, I get it, but also part of- Yeah, I get it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I part of Kink is consent, and Noah Halley did not get my consent to drop that many daddies in this episode, so my protest gear read on the situation entirely.
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I feel like I have to say something too, because I know I did say something about how it didn't do anything for me, but I don't think just because I don't enjoy it meant that I thought it was weird or I was shaming anyone who did, because I don't, I'm totally like, I'm a very sex positive person.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's risky, it's risky, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't enjoy it, but I understand that people do, and that's totally fine.
[SPEAKER_09]: I say whatever doesn't for you is great for you.
[SPEAKER_09]: If it doesn't do it for someone else, you have to respect that too.
[SPEAKER_09]: But I don't shame anyone.
[SPEAKER_09]: Hey, I got my own kinks too.
[SPEAKER_09]: Things that I do like that some other people might not like, so I don't want to be ashamed of that.
[SPEAKER_09]: I totally get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't believe we still tell what they are, and then she- Yeah, I don't think- Yeah, if we did shame anybody, we did do.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, that was so- And so- Yeah, I was trying to think, did we say people don't- I mean, I could understand how you could feel that way, though, because we were kind of like really dismissive of it, but yeah, what Remy just said was actually perfect, so I probably don't even need to add to it.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, sorry, sorry about that.
[SPEAKER_09]: I thought a finger was offended, didn't mean to.
[SPEAKER_09]: Jamie Henry says, hey guys, wow.
[SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I need to do a rewatch because I was waiting this entire episode for the other shoot-a-drop.
[SPEAKER_09]: Sid to get her arm cut off, fruit to double cross Charles and David, Carrie and Carrie to die.
[SPEAKER_09]: Switched to just say screw this and rip them all out of the past.
[SPEAKER_09]: None of that happened.
[SPEAKER_09]: Instead, we got what seems to be a reset for most of our characters and I think I'm okay with that.
[SPEAKER_09]: And seriously, Pink Floyd perfection.
[SPEAKER_09]: My dad played that album on a loop in my house when I was growing up, so I found myself singing right along with David and Gabrielle.
[SPEAKER_09]: The music on the show is always top notch.
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, Jason Remin and Aeron, it has been an absolute pleasure going on this journey with you guys.
[SPEAKER_09]: Question for you all.
[SPEAKER_09]: If someone had never heard of or watched Legion, what one scene from any season would you show them to convince them to watch?
[SPEAKER_09]: My choice would be the dance off from the beginning of season two.
[SPEAKER_09]: Take care and don't forget be good people.
[SPEAKER_09]: Do you guys are you guys able to answer that?
[SPEAKER_06]: I guess I was going to go with the like the opening the cold open of season three to finale where they're beginning the psychic battle and
[SPEAKER_06]: He's, uh, doing the behind.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's a behind blue eyes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, floating across the edges.
[SPEAKER_06]: Just just to kind of, yeah, just to like, this is what this show builds up to because like, uh, because I always think to everyone should start at the beginning, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, you know, I have a thing.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, you know, if you heard a lot of good things about a show and you want to try it.
[SPEAKER_06]: and then give it like three to four episodes.
[SPEAKER_06]: And if you like it great, if not then, you know, not everyone likes everything.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, but yeah, if they weren't going to fall that advice on fire up the cold open of season two finale and see if that blows their air back.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was thinking maybe when they're at summer land and sit and and David are talking about, oh I forget they just had some nice moments talking about what it was like to have her powers and stuff like that because I really remember feeling like this this has a lot of it feels real like two real people talking about life but
[SPEAKER_04]: through the lens of what it's like to have mutant powers and I feel like that's a lot about what this show is it really just kind of humanizes the superhero stuff so I like that but also maybe something in the desert when they that big hole with the past plug
[SPEAKER_09]: You said really nicely also kind of what I was thinking with their scenes, David and Sidney talking about her powers and just a young couple kind of in love and kind of figuring it out.
[SPEAKER_09]: Gosh, I really, my favorite, and it's an episode, it's not just a singing, it's season two episode four, this Sid Century.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, if it's a whole episode.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm gonna change to say, just watch that damn episode.
[SPEAKER_09]: And if you don't get it, yeah, I feel like a tune.
[SPEAKER_09]: If that's the only thing that you watched from Legion, there's like no context, you'd have no idea what's going on, but I feel like it's still so beautifully done.
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, that, that, I love that episode.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I'm gonna change to say that episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, where are we?
[SPEAKER_04]: Who's next?
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, me.
[SPEAKER_06]: Bonnie Skelly.
[SPEAKER_06]: When the first episode of this season, let's switch us talking through her dad and she tells them all the grades are perfect.
[SPEAKER_06]: The watered house, which would be getting perfect scores in our test.
[SPEAKER_06]: If she barely pays attention in class, dance, so she's a time traveler.
[SPEAKER_06]: She gets the answers to the test and goes back and time.
[SPEAKER_06]: It takes, again, to get to a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_06]: AKA the Hermione Granger.
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, strategy for taking all the glasses.
[SPEAKER_06]: Very clear.
[SPEAKER_06]: Time turner.
[SPEAKER_04]: Derek O'Neill said a few things and the one I have down here that he said is I could have watched three more seasons but I'm satisfied with the end I think I may press the button to start again.
[SPEAKER_09]: sounds good.
[SPEAKER_09]: Brent from San Diego says, it's all over.
[SPEAKER_09]: I've been with the show since day one, and I have to say the finale surpassed all my expectations.
[SPEAKER_09]: While the first two seasons were chock full of incredible imagery and questions upon questions, the spinal season was the one that really brought the emotional punch.
[SPEAKER_09]: Knowing that David is not necessarily redeemed, but is allowed to try again, I don't think is a cop out, but maybe an uncomfortable past that we don't allow too many of our fellow humans.
[SPEAKER_09]: My favorite moments of the season might be the music choices.
[SPEAKER_09]: Pink Floyd, Captain Sensible, and I think most importantly, Daniel Johnson's true love will find you in the end from the second episode of the season.
[SPEAKER_09]: It perfectly encapsulates the emotions of one trying to understand what it means to actually understand what love is and whom you can receive it from.
[SPEAKER_09]: And at the same time, weaking to the audience about the perils of brilliance found within broken creatures.
[SPEAKER_09]: See the documentary, The Devil and Daniel Johnson for a real understanding of what brilliance means when faced with mental illness.
[SPEAKER_09]: I can't say enough about how much I've loved the show.
[SPEAKER_09]: I can only hope that Holly keeps making entertainment forever and step-in-wall can suck up for liking twin peaks that return more than Legion.
[SPEAKER_09]: Personal bias and all.
[SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for the great podcast and looking forward to more great things from you all.
[SPEAKER_09]: Cheers and thanks for all your hard work.
[SPEAKER_09]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was shocked to step-in-wall even gave a series finale.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought that he was out on that show.
[SPEAKER_06]: I kind of missed me that he was pretty dismissive of season two.
[SPEAKER_06]: But everybody's got their opinions.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess he kept up with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I, the song over soon by Boni-Vay from season two.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's my favorite, yeah, from this Hill.
[SPEAKER_04]: But there's some good music.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just found the other day that Noah Holly put out for season two, an album that you can find on like Spotify.
[SPEAKER_04]: of the ones that he covered with Jeff and so because he covered a bunch of songs and I hope they do that for season three because I really like the cover they did of the RM song.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can't get there from here.
[SPEAKER_09]: I have to look, I think I saw that.
[SPEAKER_09]: I come Spotify all the time.
[SPEAKER_09]: There's some really great Legion playlists and albums that they have out there for the soundtrack and stuff.
[SPEAKER_09]: If I can dig that up, I listen to the Legion music from all three seasons constantly.
[SPEAKER_09]: They're always on my playlists.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, really good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Happy Jack, I was in the end.
[SPEAKER_06]: Nick Matthews, just want to say I'll miss you guys.
[SPEAKER_06]: Now many people I know watch Legion, so ever since the first episode I've listened to you guys, there's only turns out a couple hundred thousand of us.
[SPEAKER_06]: We got to stick together.
[SPEAKER_06]: I can't believe it's been over three years, but anyways I'll miss you guys and I'll miss that crazy show.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was also delighted to know that my new step brother watches Legion, but not only does he watch the show, he loves the podcast.
[SPEAKER_06]: So thank you guys for giving us something to bond about.
[SPEAKER_06]: And thank you guys so much for making a laugh and for helping me understand this amazing show.
[SPEAKER_06]: You guys are the true heroes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh wow, what did it say to you together?
[SPEAKER_09]: Wow, you know, I met someone in real life that watches this show and it was like a moment like whoa There's other people that exist out in the world Yeah, they're not just all online.
[SPEAKER_06]: I've been feeling really lonely with the shows I've been covering lately like Legion and Harlitz are the two shows we're kind of covering now and this is not a lot of not a lot of eyeballs on those those babies
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what happens when there's six hundred and forty three shots.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and seventeen millions, seventeen million outlets and six point nine million are owned by Disney.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, that is our podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening to everyone.
[SPEAKER_04]: Aaron, I want to thank you for coming back on with us this season.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like we got a time travel to over getting you back, and it's really been fun to podcast with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm glad you were able to come back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Wow, it's fun.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for having me on.
[SPEAKER_06]: I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's been awesome.
[SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: The only downside is that you caused the show to end.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, I'm the, the, the great, great, great show.
[SPEAKER_06]: As it turns out, if I, if I ever caught camera, cover something to that gym, it's the kiss of death.
[SPEAKER_06]: Hey, would you please come and walk into a guest?
[SPEAKER_06]: What?
[SPEAKER_06]: What is it?
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, for no fear.
[SPEAKER_06]: You might talk to you in the season.
[SPEAKER_04]: You want that show to keep going on.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to end these shows.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm here to be over.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and I want to thank Jim, of course, for hosting with us for the first season, and Rema, it's been really great covering the show with you, because especially because I can feel how much you love the show just as much as I do, so that makes it really fulfilling to podcast with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're part of the network, but we've never really had a podcast together before until this one says that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, that's cool.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: I love this show.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for the opportunity to have a podcast like a history.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm the guy that got left in the moon capsule or the two astronauts landing.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I've part of history, but you guys are walking on the moon.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can always visit the moon.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's true, that's true.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'll take a sky ship to get there.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, any final words?
[SPEAKER_09]: It's always good.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, you good boy.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'd like to make we we should remake we should get together in American or story interesting we should figure out something to do with the walking dead Where if you like like what I'm bringing to the podcast being Jim or currently Marathon and Rick and Morty Leading up to season three and there's a lot of cool stuff going on it's all moved this all so
[SPEAKER_06]: I hope to see a lot of you guys over there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Baldmume.com, everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you want to hear, uh, Rima and Sean, they cover strange, strange things, but they also cover a bunch of other great Netflix shows like Black Mirror, which is another one of my very favorite shows of all time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And a ton of other stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm doing, I'm going to be doing Westworld, and I'm doing Walking Dead, and we're looking at maybe
[SPEAKER_04]: picking up another show because there's a bunch of cool stuff coming up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, you can find me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you got it over at podcast.com.
[SPEAKER_06]: You guys, you guys are going to do like his divine materials or the feeling of watch and love.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe so.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Watch man's looking real good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Witcher looks pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: Which is looking good.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's stuff coming in.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alright everybody, thank you so much for listening to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Love you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: Peace out.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the end.
[SPEAKER_08]: The beginning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nope, it's just the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: So no one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just sort of fade away.
[SPEAKER_03]: into the easier.