[SPEAKER_00]: But remember that feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because soon you will see it in her eyes when she looks at you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, you're really welcome to our podcast, I'm Jason.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Rima.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is Legion cast episode nineteen.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is our final episode for Legion season two.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been a really good season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are going to be back for next season, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: We haven't really talked about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We haven't, but you know, I'm here for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll be watching regardless.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I want to keep podcasting about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This, I like, I think this is a good show for a podcast, obviously, because you can't tell what's going on half the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Definitely have to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's been to talk about to.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, uh, we don't know when it's coming back.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're having announced.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think there's even a chance that it might not even though it's been renewed because of all this stuff with Fox and I just read today that Comcast put in a last minute bit of twenty five billion dollars to try to steal Fox away from Disney.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, um, and
[SPEAKER_04]: Fox is the one who owns all the filming rights for X men stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so who knows if some deal goes down and then Disney decides, I don't want to have a show that has sexual assault in it, then take it off the air or something, you know, who knows.
[SPEAKER_04]: But hopefully, I mean, I'm pretty sure it will be back.
[SPEAKER_04]: But just in case, since we don't know when it's going to be back,
[SPEAKER_04]: and it'll probably be at least a year.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought we would let you guys know what else we're doing and how you can keep in touch with us.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I also aside from this podcast, I have another podcast with co-host Sean.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's also on podcastica called Strange Indeed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our main show is Stranger Things, but we have branched out and we have podcasted on Black Mirror, Big Favorite, at least season four of Black Mirror, altered carbon from Netflix and we are currently covering Austin Space.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: And have you figured out what you're going to do next?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we're, we, we're talking about it, but we don't have like, we haven't announced it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have not announced it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can find that by going to podcast.com, I am doing walking dead cast right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't recommend you listen to that because fear of the walking dead sucks.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's almost over and during the offseason, that's kind of my home-based podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'll talk about horror movies and whatever else.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's tons of great horror video games coming up.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we might talk about some of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm also doing Westworld.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a couple more episodes of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you can find all that stuff at podcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: I also wanted to let you guys know this is going to be a big long ad at the beginning of this podcast because it's the last one.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have a great Patreon group and Remus in it and it's filled with people who
[SPEAKER_04]: where podcast listeners and just wanted to get involved and help support me doing podcasting as a career.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the ones that do tend dollars a month end up in this Facebook group.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they've just really, really enjoyed being a part of the group.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to play a testimonial here.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you guys, I think it's like a minute and a half long or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: So here's a testimonial for this group.
[SPEAKER_04]: But by the way, this was from a call that they were having about
[SPEAKER_04]: Avengers, Infinity War, and the college just went on for like four hours and they started talking on some other stuff and it just came up and I heard it and I'm like, I want to use this for our testimonial and Rachel said I could.
[SPEAKER_04]: So here's Rachel.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, well, the whole thing on the way home from Rochester last night and like Rochester, my heart was so full of love.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like
[SPEAKER_02]: had to resist just like posting something about how much I love them all because like we were talking about like what like the mystery of this group and how it's so great and like why it's so great and why we all how we all got here and it's just like just like you know what Jason started this thing out of like a like this passion for the show and this comic and it just has become this gift for all of us that we somehow like
[SPEAKER_02]: stumbled into unknowingly looking for an outlet or camaraderie or whatever, and it's become this wonderful thing where we've formed these deep friendships, and I just don't think any real explanation is just this blessing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a gift.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really is.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's so nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's so awesome in that group.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so if you want to help support my podcasting and also just get, you know, have people to talk to about this geeky stuff, then it's a really cool thing to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can do that by going to patreon.com slash Jason and Karen, patreon.com slash Jason, Karen, if you're interested.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's without any further do get into this week's top five highlights for Legion season two, episode eleven in title chapter nineteen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Man, this was disturbing, I thought.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say that this, watching this episode, like, while it was on and then after it was over, I, I really felt like physical pain.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't just like emotional.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I really felt that physically to my soul.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: This one really shook me up.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think emotional pain actually is physical pain.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't always realize it, but when you're sitting there like Jim and Carrie and dumb and dumb are going,
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that hurts.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I felt that level of Jim Carrey Paine, but yeah, you know, when it first started and David immediately starts floating across the desert to the tune of what was at the who's behind blue eyes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh my god, this is awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love this show so much and love love love and then we get to the part where he like pretty much rapes her and I'm like, oh fuck man.
[SPEAKER_04]: And their relationships falling apart through the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, uh, not I don't want to get too much into the details here because it's just general impressions, but I'll say we knew this was going to be a tragedy.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what Noah Holley said.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we should have expected it and I did and I like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, after I watched it twice,
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, yeah, I'm glad this show has the courage to be an adult show.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a little weird that it still has these whimsical moments and also this really dark disturbing stuff, but I think all said and done, I like the season finale.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad it's not the series finale.
[SPEAKER_04]: That would totally blow, but I liked it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thoroughly enjoyed it too.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was disturbing things for sure, but it was presented.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in a good way, I guess, if you can even say that, but just lots of other good things that we got to see.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it wrapped it up.
[SPEAKER_03]: It looked kind of like just with that cliffhanger, but it kind of wraps up some things.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's definitely a turning point in this story, like a milestone in the story.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what's your number five?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, my number five, you talked about it already a little bit there in the beginning where we have, you know, David floating, which was super cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love seeing that show of power, at least when it's not hurting someone.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we saw for Rook doing it as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're both gliding, you know, just hovering over the center.
[SPEAKER_04]: And singing a duet.
[SPEAKER_03]: and singing a duet in a different manner where David's more singing and and fruit is more speaking the words of the song.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought was, you know, kind of showed the differences between the two.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I thought that was super cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's in Farsi.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought he was switching languages again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Was he going back to French a little bit too?
[SPEAKER_03]: Seems like when he talks he'll kind of go back and force him to his.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it was kind of hard to tell because the music was really loud.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it was the same words of the song.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was seeing the song just in another language.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was totally a duet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was, yeah, it was very well done.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I loved, you know, showing them coming face-to-face for their battle.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we got the battle itself with that wonderful imagery, kind of similar to what we had earlier in the season when they were like in those wrestling uniforms, and one of them turns into a tank.
[SPEAKER_03]: and they have this battle, I thought it was super cool how we got this psychic battle that we got to envision what it's like, because these two mutants, that's their strengths, right, is their mental abilities and psychic powers.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, you can't, if they didn't take that battle and let us see that imagery of them turning into these different things and battling each other, it's like it would look almost kind of silly, because they need to have these two mutant superpowers just standing there illustriering at each other grunting back and forth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it would be awful.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was thinking, I mean, it's a lot, it's like in the comics, from what I remember, you see, on the astroplane, like Charles Xavier has these fights, a lot, mental fights with channelking, and he's in a wheelchair in real life, but, and he's kind of an older man, but in the psychic plane, he's big and buffed, and they shoot lighting, pulls out each other, and this was even more imaginative because they're turning into all different kinds of objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it was cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought if the show I'm now that I know how low the viewership is I'm thinking man the show the budget must have gone down to so they're doing really well with what they have I think this is a really fun cool comic book style that didn't look too expensive, but it was still great But I bet you if they had a higher budget it would have been like CGI creatures or something who knows
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, if they had a bigger budget, because they don't know what their budget is, but they're working with a TV budget.
[SPEAKER_03]: TV isn't unless your game of Thrones or something isn't as high as movies and such.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think they do a really great job with their limitations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then how they can take that visual and the music, the music and the visual combined that makes such a story and an impact and really made it awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like I said, you mentioned the song from the who,
[SPEAKER_03]: Although that was so perfect for that moment and it was almost too perfect because it's like no Holley's had that song in the whole time.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like he's played it in the moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, this is gonna be what the show is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so it was it was perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's my number five just at the beginning, which that usually is that the beginnings are always kind of mind blowing to me and and I like how they start off.
[SPEAKER_03]: So
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it just lit me up right away when I saw that.
[SPEAKER_04]: You kind of go up behind David and he's floating and then and then he starts moving gliding and then he's singing musical and like this fucking show.
[SPEAKER_04]: And let's see, the words are no one knows what it's like to be the bad man to be the sad man behind blue eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: No one knows what it's like to be hated, to be faded, to telling only lies.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's all about kind of feeling like everyone sees you as the villain and you're feeling victimized because of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's great for David and Shadow King to be singing a duet because they both kind of have that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And after this episode, probably more than ever, I feel like David is closer to the shadow king, where he's maybe mentally glassing over some of his transgressions and painting himself as a victim, where he should probably take more responsibility for himself.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think the shadow king's been doing that, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know if he's sincere when he's talking from the victim's standpoint, but he's said similar things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is a good song for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is a really good song.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like he's had it in mind for a long time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Teas.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they always do a great job with music anyway.
[SPEAKER_04]: One other cool thing about this battle while we're on the subject is David had a plan and it totally paned out exactly the way he hoped it would except for that last part where Sid comes in interrupts him beating Shadow King to death.
[SPEAKER_04]: We it opens on this choker thing flying across because we saw who do we saw the shadow group for root just kind of with the octopus wrist was like and so it got going into the ground and then we see oh the plan was for Lenny to shoot it so it would vibrate out these waves of taking away mutant power apparently okay fine I accept all that
[SPEAKER_04]: And yes, then it was cool because that meant they were finding man demand.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, I don't know if I was David, he's maybe doesn't have quite the stature as for Luke that I would be so confident that you could win in a battle without powers, but that's what he thought and he was right.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was winning.
[SPEAKER_04]: But conveniently, that also left him vulnerable to Sid.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was just a nice plot device there where because of his own plan, that left him vulnerable to her, maybe shooting him.
[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, I just like the way it all kind of elegantly fit together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'll just go ahead and make that.
[SPEAKER_04]: My number five too.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what's your number four?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, all right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my number four is then you kind of mentioned it already.
[SPEAKER_03]: A Sydney confronting David in the desert.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is where it kind of began to break me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was writing on that high from the battle beginning.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm kind of buzzing because it starts at home.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it's like playing with my emotions.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm happy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sad.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm excited because I really love, you know, I'm a huge band of the X-Men.
[SPEAKER_03]: So seeing X-Men movies and, you know, any of the meetings displaying their powers and stuff, you know, gives me a thrill.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was writing this high from from the beginning that we saw with this psychic battle and then we get to the part where
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, I'm sitting and thinking, you know, watching David, you know, pound away on Farrouk and I'm like, oh man, he's gonna do it because that's what said Future said tells him that he's gonna do.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, you know, you catch his brains and you're gonna kill him.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, oh, hell, this might actually happen because you know, we never know what's real, what's not, and if something's gonna come out.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna come out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's no fake logo.
[SPEAKER_03]: We like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you think, oh, shit, it's really happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: And here comes Sid.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, what great performance is, too, by Rachel Keller and Dan Stevens in this scene?
[SPEAKER_03]: It was so heartbreaking, you know, as she's talking to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's carrying that day in Minitarhead, which I feel, you know, they kept throwing this Minitar out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I was saying, okay, now they've, you know, her and Carrie have had it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's carrying around this Minitarhead.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm a cop kind of way.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like, okay, you really didn't mean, I mean, measure the story.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, she tells him that she wants to talk and she goes on to, you know, kind of just, she's pointing this gun at David and she's talking about, you know, women who marry serial killers and like have six kids and she's like, you know, what they have to know, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: The wives deep down, at least a feeling, something's wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know with you now, and he tells her, well, I'm the good guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's the monster.
[SPEAKER_03]: She says, no, you're not that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she tells him that you're the real villain.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just thought that whole conversation between them.
[SPEAKER_03]: She did not want to believe it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, all of season one, all of season two, she has struggled.
[SPEAKER_03]: with who David really is and and seeing it for herself is he's beating the hell out of Ferruc and he's got that look on his face again.
[SPEAKER_03]: That like maniacal face that he's getting off on, you know, inflicting pain on Ferruc and she sees it for herself.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's not just seeing what Melanie was showing her in the last episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's actually seeing herself and I think that made such an impact on her.
[SPEAKER_03]: It broke my heart that whole interaction.
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you get out of that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, she's gotten to the point and it's I was thinking about how breakups can be sometime where sometimes where you're really in love with somebody and then after breakup, suddenly just there's some transgression or whatever and you're whole like feeling about the person changes and you're just closed off, you know, and that's how she is.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, nope, I don't want you anymore and he's like, well, baby, I'm right here.
[SPEAKER_04]: but um I don't know looking at it I think she's judging him based on the looks on his faces as he's doing things that she
[SPEAKER_04]: uh... knew that he was going to do well i don't know if she knew now i guess she didn't know that he was gonna try to kill for oak but i i really feel like a lot of her perception of him is influenced by shadow king's manipulations that
[SPEAKER_04]: if you know she knows what he has done to David and that he's like the prime villain that division three is going after and everything and so i think she could have she would have a little bit more understanding for David just passionately wanting to get revenge against the sky and put him out of existence maybe i mean who knows i don't know
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think that we have to question how much of it is her real perception and feeling versus how much she's been manipulated by the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, a big part of me wondering that is because look how far gone Melanie was last week.
[SPEAKER_04]: That wasn't even her at all, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just I guess my point is that I don't want to just accept that just based on her seeing the look on David's face when he's being violent that she thinks he's a villain because the people that the only person he's really being violent towards is is the shadow king who's the devil basically
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and she's also basing it off of everything that, that fruit slash Melanie was showing her, whenever he was in division three, just, you know, randomly taking people out, what he did to Oliver, whenever he was torturing Oliver.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there is a good point that that was Oliver's body.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he shouldn't have been so exuberant about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, but I mean, he was operating under the assumption that he was still like possessed by fruit.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't know anything about Melanie and what was happening over there with Melanie and Sidney as this was happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all he's known since season two has began is that the shadow king has taken Lenny and Oliver again.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not saying it's right what he did.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was clearly enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It shouldn't matter who the victim is if you're getting off on torturing someone.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a little problem there.
[SPEAKER_04]: The thing is, that's like Noah Hollywood would be happy that we're having this discussion because I think the point is that it's all of this is arguable whether or not David is sane and whether or not he's good or bad is something that is not easily pegged by most people I would say.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we'll get more into it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think that's kind of the point that, uh, Noah Holly wants us to feel like we were not sure what reality is and our footing is unsure and maybe we're the crazy ones.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he succeeds like I mean this show had me feeling a lot of different things about David and Partly wanting to stand up for him and partly wanting to Feeling very judgmental and like I want to condemn him so I was feeling on both sides of that for sure
[SPEAKER_03]: I was, I was back and forth, kind of feeling what a lot of the characters were feeling in this scene as she's talking to David and telling him that he's the villain.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's the monster.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could tell she still loves him, but as she tells him, she's like, don't you trust me?
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, I trust myself more.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, she was, she was going to kill him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she, she fired a bullet at his head.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's because he had a certain look on his face when he was killing a villain.
[SPEAKER_04]: So she decides she's gonna kill him, but since she doesn't have that look on her face then it's okay, even though it was her boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I really do feel like Shadow King has gotten in and screwed with everybody's heads to the point where they don't even know what reality is anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, they've all, they were all infected with a delusion.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, there's still a point to where they're still infected to a point or allowed that to somehow ingrate in their brain with the delusion that he is infected everyone with.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think so.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not supposed to know that for sure, but one thing that really clues me in is everybody knows, I think that Shadow King is a mass murderer and has done a lot of bad things and yet at the end of this, he's free.
[SPEAKER_04]: and to me that's like okay well maybe I could understand that they might decide David is dangerous and has been not what he seems and needs to get therapy and medication or else they're going to kill him okay that's where they ended up I could see that but why does that mean that you have to let your number one villain go you know that part doesn't make sense
[SPEAKER_03]: because they're all under his influence.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, because God, it bothers me when bad people get away with stuff and
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I saw arguments for both that, you know, there was one on one hand.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, well, yes, for Luke is the person that division three has been hunting for for so long.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's been like public enemy number one.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so how does it make?
[SPEAKER_03]: So it makes sense to a point because David is the worst of the two evils that they make
[SPEAKER_03]: temporary peace with for root because I mean we do it all the time right I mean as as a nation we make temporary peace for some and result that we need to make happen with people that we may not have as allies but we make a temporary peace with with someone and I think that that's kind of what one one hand you could see at that way or else on the other hand like I'm kind of you know I feel like I'm swaying more towards is he's
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's all powerful.
[SPEAKER_03]: He got that little halo thing that looked like a crown, which I thought was pretty fitting since he's entered himself a king that the thing that Carrie had on his head was like a crown.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was able to overcome that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And David was like, you know how powerful he is.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's in his body.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know how powerful he's going to be once he has his powers.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now that he's completely free, who's to say that not everyone is completely under his influence at that point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, as far as the temporary piece of things goes, I could maybe see that if they thought they had to do that for some benefit, but we saw that they were able to lure David into this room.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, as soon as Clark says, thanks for all your help you saved us, my thought was, get out of there dude, run away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Something's not right here, then you see them whispering to each other.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, it's a trap.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyways, they got him in there without the Shadow King's help, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And they trapped him in that so they need to do so.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think they needed to let Shadow King go free for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and why did they feel it was necessary if they weren't under his influence?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why in the world did they even need for Rook in the room to just kind of rub it in more?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this is the guy that... I think he was in charge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so it's like why would you even do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: If this is some type of intervention from people who care about you, the intervention trial, whatever you want to call it, for David, for people that care about you and they're trying to get through to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why in the world would you bring in your worst enemy of a parasite that has taken hold of you then all these horrible things for thirty years?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why would you do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that just antagonizes the situation and what makes you think that David's going to see any clear because I mean, you saw how it angered him.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what is the point of that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why would you bring him to that point if you want to keep him calm and reason with him about your issues and why you're concerned for him?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, to me, it seems like either he's in control of everybody and I almost think it would be more interesting if he wasn't able to get that level of control that where they both, they had him still in prison, but at least he was successful in turning them against David because then you'd wonder how much of him turning them was him versus just what's actually been going on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because there is a lot of just sketchy stuff with David.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that he's large and in charge just makes me feel like it's a little bit more binary that maybe he is manipulating them to even larger degree.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it might be more interesting if he was still captured.
[SPEAKER_04]: But on the other hand, it was such a like knife twisting in the back moment when he's stuck there and the shadow king strolls up.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was a good moment, even though it's hard for me to watch.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was like, oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I was like, as if it couldn't get bad enough and then who comes walking down the damn wall?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I see.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I keep thinking about how if I was David and ever since I was a little kid, there was this demon inside me haunting me and causing problems in my life that if I had a chance to kill this guy, I might have that same look on my face, you know, that's horrible.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the worst thing I've ever heard.
[SPEAKER_04]: So my number four is, is David a bad guy or not.
[SPEAKER_04]: And one thing I really liked about this episode was when he's questioning whether he's a good person that deserves to be loved or he says he is when he's talking to the two other versions of himself that are the voices in his head.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then that delusion thing starts playing with David John Hamm.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think there was some other moments this season that seemed like people were having delusions but I felt like all the other John Hamm moments were more clearly related to things in the show and that delusion when I always
[SPEAKER_04]: thought, you know, who's having delusions?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't, I mean, I guess when everybody was trying to attack Fookin' on me, they were having delusions that he was a creature inside.
[SPEAKER_04]: But still, anyway, I thought it was really a genius thing to introduce that concept so early and then to have the delusion end up being maybe whether David is a good person and a hero and someone who deserves to be loved.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's like heart really heartbreaking, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's the delusion.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: The whole thing with him and said what his other aspects of his self was telling him, or at least one of them was, you know, that's a delusion whenever it showed the flashback from season one when he saw Sidney and they fell in love.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or what he tried what they were telling him was that he thought it was love.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't really love.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was trying to convince himself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then telling and trying to make Sydney believe that they were.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and the usually you think of the delusions as being something scary, but in this case, it's something good and hopeful and then coming up with rationalizations to sort of bolster it.
[SPEAKER_04]: is David telling himself he's a good person and then you start to wonder because he did that thing where he wiped her mind and there is one sense where I feel like okay if you really believe that shadow king is an evil villain who just totally manipulated her into hating you and it was all false then maybe I could see wiping her mind if you have the ability to do that but then
[SPEAKER_04]: and maybe not, but I mean, if the alternative is just having her hate you then maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then what you want to do is talk to her about what happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell her exactly what you just went through.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you were hating on me and saying all this stuff and I erased it from my mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't know what else to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: What you don't do is pretend that never happened and try to have a good relationship and then go into her room when she's expressed that she wants to spend the night alone and you have some space and kind of push yourself on her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that to me is the clearest episode of David Holler doing something really bad and super shitty.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's sexual assault, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree, and I feel like no matter what I'm going to say, it's going to somehow sound like I'm defending anything that he did.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I can almost see not the after part when he goes to her well presents himself into her room as a projection.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but the wiping of her memory, you know, it's, it's, he doesn't, I don't think know what happened and transpired between her and for Rook or Melanie during that moment, but that's really almost seeing, seeing like he was kind of freeing her of that and and freeing her of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know he tried to rationalize it like well, I was trying to make her remember that she loves me.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what he was telling for Rook when he went and saw him and visited him and projected himself while this sex scene was happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, well, I was trying to make a remember that she loves me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Creepy by the way that he was having that conversation with Rook at the same time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just weird.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, only in this show, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I kind of love it, but it's like, so wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of like I could kind of see where he would want to wipe her memory because he feels like it's not right because he's looking at her when she's telling him all of the stuff because he's he's just completely stupified like what?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't love me and what are you saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I love you.
[SPEAKER_03]: You love me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm your man.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's like, you did you kid all this people at Division three and he goes, well, that was when I was under the control of the shadow king and
[SPEAKER_04]: Totally reminds me of you know anytime you're arguing with someone that you're together with And it's a nasty argument you're both rooted in your own reality and that's because of that thing that we all want to see ourselves as the good guy but sometimes when two people have the opposite Perception then like for me personally when I'm in those kind of arguments then I question myself a little bit like oh shit Maybe I'm the bad guy, but you can't let that come through in the middle of the argument or you're gonna lose
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean you have to show some vulnerability sometimes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess I can just say I kind of understand like and it made me question David too like he just rationalizing and he doesn't realize it or is he right like I can understand some of his arguments but also
[SPEAKER_04]: Well here's here's one thing that he did that mind white and it made me think of how he just implanted the plans in people's heads without asking them first and remember we kind of talked about well that was a little bit bold of him to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: And after this, the mind wipe and then having sex with her, and then also in this episode, when they were under the influence of the tuning fork thing, and they were kind of arguing, and I don't know if I'm reading this right, but he kind of moved his head forward and looked intently at her, and she said, it won't work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your powers don't work.
[SPEAKER_04]: That made me wonder if he was trying to influence her there too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that made me wonder, okay, well, maybe even subconsciously because he's so powerful, it's possible that throughout their whole relationship, he's been psychically pushing her to do things that he wants because it's just a habit of his.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then maybe she wouldn't have even been in love with him, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't think so, but it's something to consider.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh man, it's if I wasn't bummed out enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't I see your point and it's a valid point, but man, I don't want to dwell on that because that would really throw me in a deep depression.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why this episode was so hard for me was to see that breakdown of that relationship of Sidney and David.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt so much in that scene like David felt like
[SPEAKER_03]: oh my god said what what are you thinking you know that you you love him and you know let's let's work with him and I don't know that he would have hurt her like like he said when he kind of made that motion like maybe his powers came back and he was trying to you know before he did the memory wipe I would like to think that he would just like get that gun like make that gun fly out of her hand or something so she couldn't
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, because she can't hurt him otherwise, he's way more powerful than her.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he just like, like a subconscious habit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, oh, I don't like the way Sid is looking at me.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then, you know, counterpoint to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: There has been times when they've argued, or she's been unhappy, and he didn't do anything then.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I could be barking up the wrong tree.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and everybody is making him out to be so evil, like how the whole group, and during this trial, and an intervention is against him, and they're like, and I don't see how it makes any sense that it has to be either death or drugged up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you got, you have to do therapy and be drugged up and be like, you know, zombie David, as he called it, or else death.
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like that's really, you're only two possible solutions.
[SPEAKER_04]: How about try just therapy for a while?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and just keep him in prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like they have at least if he's cooperative and they're able to see him that, oh, yeah, maybe I do have a problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: At least get fruit out of the room so he can think clearly and become.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they can get through to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: It really was the drugs that was the downer part of that because it just reminded him of being back in clockworks and being zombie David, as he said, and you didn't want it and being shunted away.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the genius of this show.
[SPEAKER_04]: What I love is that even though it's a superhero show, it really is about mental illness and it makes us feel crazy and it reminds me anyway of uncomfortable psychological things and that's a brave thing to do for a superhero show.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I kind of love it for that even though it's uncomfortable sometimes.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyways, yeah, I think you're right that they could have just said to David instead of suggesting that they were going to dope him up, which is kind of scary and shitty that they could have just suggested there, be maybe I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, work with us and stick to some counseling, some therapy, some high therapy.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, why does it have to be this one way?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's, again, along with for root being in the room and just making him, because if root barely has to speak, just his presence alone is enough to make David erratic.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then when you start talking about dragging him up again, which we know he, like you said, just reminds him of being in clockwork, some being his onbie.
[SPEAKER_03]: That just makes him more aggressive too.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, that's not how you get someone to, you know, kind of cooperate and make them see.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think David recognizes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Sidney was right that, you know, yes, you do have superpowers.
[SPEAKER_03]: You were infected by this parasite for all of your life, but that wasn't just you are mentally ill.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think David saw that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think even though he's talking to these other aspects of himself, he's been having conversations with himself all season and now we actually get to see them visualized and in person when he's in his childhood basement as he's having these conversations and then they pop up again there at the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't seem to question that, like, well, more some having conversations with myself, but I'm not crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, and you wonder how much of that was brought on by the shadow king and how much of it was just there and maybe irritated by the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_04]: David has a conception of himself as a hero and a good guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he mentioned, you know, oh, I thought that this is he's clinging to a story that
[SPEAKER_04]: They thought I was schizophrenic but actually it's because of the shadow king and my powers and then Sid found me and I realized that I'm special and I'm a mutant and I'm a hero and I'm a good guy and really Sid is the anchor of that and so by Sid separating and then her saying what you just said about you know you're actually mentally ill
[SPEAKER_04]: That's dangerous.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's stupid because he has a conception of himself as a good person and I think that they should actually Not for the drama of the show, but just in real life if this happened They should not try to rip that identity away from him because when he's identifying as a hero in a good person That's something to work with.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a resource you can draw on and then they can examine the areas where he's not living up to that that he thinks he might be which I think there are several
[SPEAKER_04]: But at least like now at the end of this episode, he's kind of divorced himself with that identity.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like more comfortable hanging out with Lenny again, like he used to, who doesn't have a very good impression of herself in my good person.
[SPEAKER_04]: And like questionable morals, like I think he's decided, okay, maybe I'm not a good person.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's where he has been earlier in the series.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like this episode kind of reminded me more of season one, because he's just so frazzled and fragile.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the difference is that now he has a much higher command of his powers, so he's more dangerous.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now he's back to being in this moral gray area, but much more dangerous.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that should be for an interesting season three.
[SPEAKER_03]: I absolutely believe so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think where they're headed and where they're flipping the story is going to be great season three and I can't help.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why I really believe so much about the group and I could be completely wrong and I'm okay with that because I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anything more than anyone else just my own speculation.
[SPEAKER_03]: about the the whole group being under his underfruits influence there at the end because they didn't approach it in the way that you just mentioned and it's like they're pushing so hard at him and focusing yeah like they're trying to break him if you keep telling someone that they're going to be or that they're a villain they're gonna be a villain yeah and I feel like they keep you know you're not good David you're not your mentally ill you're not a good person you don't deserve love yeah your love was a delusion well and then he lives up to that so yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: You know he just did exactly that's why he's like okay enough and that was you know That's when I think there was a better way to go about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I think that if everybody took a close look at David as his friends and his lover They might see you know what there are some areas where he needs some help and he's super powerful So this if we don't address this could be dangerous for everyone
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's do it in an loving caring way.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that's how that could play out.
[SPEAKER_04]: But because of the shadow king's influence, I think that they're doing it in a very toxic way.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just blowing everything up in the shadow king has his big smile and his face the whole time.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know where we are.
[SPEAKER_04]: You probably just went through all our points, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: We probably went through all of our points.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're not going to have anything left to talk about, but we're on my number three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wait, let me make sure I finished all of them.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was saying David is David a bad guy or a good guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to reinforce one more time.
[SPEAKER_04]: When Sid said, David, you drugged me and had sex with me.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was interesting that she chose that phrasing.
[SPEAKER_04]: You drugged me because he didn't drug her.
[SPEAKER_04]: He wiped her mind, but I guess it could say there's similarity to that, like just put her in a state where she wasn't herself and couldn't make decisions for herself.
[SPEAKER_03]: But she's a little incapacitated.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I backed a division three.
[SPEAKER_03]: She let kind of out of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to excuse it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just saying it was weird.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I'm totally not trying to excuse it because I do agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that was a powerful line.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think the show chose a really, really dark thing to because that's really what made me question David as whether he's a good person or not.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've always wanted to be on David's side so much, but that what he did there was the thing, the most in this whole series that made me go.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, dude, you totally fucked up.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't support you in that, you know, it's just not good.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was really disturbing, and I almost wondered, was that a good idea to put that in the show?
[SPEAKER_04]: But what the effect it had was probably to make me do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: No Hollywood wants us to do, which is to be right there alongside everybody else, thinking maybe David's a villain.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's all.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess that's all I have to say about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good stuff, I like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, my number three, it's kind of short and sweet, was that little bit that we got with Melanie and Oliver.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really, really liked that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So sweet, I really enjoyed, because it seemed like for the very first time, not only did we get them like together, they knew who each other were, because last time they were together, like Oliver had no clue who Melanie was, and it was, you know, a doorbly goofy.
[SPEAKER_03]: his reaction to her as sad on her end, from the end of season one whenever he came back.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I really liked that we got them together and they were under no one's influence or manipulation and it was true.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, how they really were and how I have been waiting for them to be because I really was rooting for them all of season one for Oliver to come back and then when he did, he didn't remember her, I was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, how awful for her that he's there.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's finally back and then he doesn't even remember who she is, how heartbreaking for her.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then as soon as she gets him back, boom, he's gone again this whole entire season.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was really rooting for them and it just made my heart happy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I was riding on all of these highs with the psychic battle, had some melanin all of her because we just did not get
[SPEAKER_03]: We had some good stuff with Germaine Clement the season.
[SPEAKER_03]: We had some really great performances, but I feel like we still got a little, you know, we didn't get enough in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have liked to have a little bit more and certainly Jean Smart.
[SPEAKER_03]: She had that really a couple great episodes and some scenes and stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I really love having those two together and have some really cute lines and just seeing their interaction in their nice homey little ice cube.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that one interview are you going to read that part it from normally.
[SPEAKER_04]: He said something about how this season they filmed a lot more stuff or some more with them, but it got cut because he wanted to keep things concise.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like, Oh, a little put on the DVDs or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, roll the extras because I'm interested in seeing some of that stuff that ended up on the cutting room floor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's my number three.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that too.
[SPEAKER_04]: They were in the same ice world that he was in before and they were it was the same effect.
[SPEAKER_04]: They could remember anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've been here how long?
[SPEAKER_04]: Soup?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, not soup.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've been here longer than that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, they're all lovey-dovey and they're making each other feast.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they don't age in their, he's reciting poetry.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was really sweet.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't know for sure if I agree with you that they're not under anyone's influence.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because at second time through watching this, I noticed, let's see, they're saying what happened to Sydney was so sad.
[SPEAKER_04]: She was betrayed.
[SPEAKER_04]: David turned after the fight with Faruk.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I loved when Oliver says a very soothing voice, I found very hypnotic because that's what we say too.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then I think that's important because they're kind of spacing out and they're like, you know, I remember helping him, which is all, yeah, I do too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think maybe they're there because of him.
[SPEAKER_04]: that they're not there by their own choice because they don't remember what the hell happened with him and they you know they don't they their memories aren't very good and it does seem a little odd that they would be there so I think it's possible that they're there because of him
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we don't know how and why, but they know that their bodies are hidden.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're safe.
[SPEAKER_03]: They can't tell where the bodies are at.
[SPEAKER_03]: So nothing happens to them in case they ever do decide to come back.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it seems like that's the one place where they can be happy because like I said, they don't age there in the actual plane.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was what I thought the first time through.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the second time when I noticed that they were kind of spacey on shadow king and they remembered helping him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, why did they put that dialogue in there?
[SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I thought it kind of explained itself because we know all of her spending like twenty years in the astral plane and he just like completely lost his memories.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that's what we're supposed to know when we go in we have all that background.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're supposed to think
[SPEAKER_04]: oh yeah this kind of makes sense it's a little weird but then maybe the twist comes when they start talking about the shadow king that oh shit maybe actually it wasn't what I thought and they're actually there because they got manipulated into being there I could be wrong I
[SPEAKER_03]: So I can be wrong.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe this is their happily ever after and that we might not see these actors on the show anymore since they didn't have a lot to do this season.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was getting ready to ask you that very same thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I was wondering as well is if this is kind of like our little goodbye to Melanie and Oliver that they're just gonna live like you said happily ever after, you know, a forever happy and astral plane and that's our little goodbye for season three.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would rather not, I want as much more Jamaican Clement as we can get.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I hope not.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope it's the Shadow King manipulating them in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would hope so too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I certainly don't want it to be, but it made me think about it, because it just seemed like it seemed like a little send-off.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, they're happy.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're in their happy place.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're in a good place, and they're finally together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, everyone, at least me, was rooting for.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now we can leave them there and move on with the story.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just now, maybe they'll be mentioned from time to time by the characters, you know, Melanie and Oliver.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know something like that but as far as seeing the one screen or something that might be the end of things and I hate their bodies and these like undersea suits maybe they're in some closet somewhere that we see everyone's in a while or something right somebody glances by wistfully yeah frozen on ice and then they can at the end they can burn the bodies and release them into the cosmos like Oliver was talking about before yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, then they can just dance along the astral plane forever and be free.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's beautiful like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, a cruisebie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: My number, what?
[SPEAKER_03]: Three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Three is how much of this is because of fruit making everyone crazy, which we've talked a lot about already, but a couple other things that we didn't mention is
[SPEAKER_04]: They did this tidal thing, chapter twelve, the trial of the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_04]: It goes, in the end, what is the sound of truth?
[SPEAKER_04]: Waves on a beach, the laugh of a child, or perhaps there are competing truths, the truth of the mind, the truth of the heart.
[SPEAKER_04]: If all the apples are bruised, then it is the unbrused apple that is bad, which I don't agree with.
[SPEAKER_04]: If all the apples are bruised, then there's one unbrused apple, and that's the one good apple.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I kind of get with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The sane man who's crazy for what is normal is that upon which nine wise men can agree leaving the tent to swing from a hangman's rope.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that suggests that at least they want us to be thinking that maybe David is the one sane person and everybody else is insane.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't you say?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I got.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why else would you want to put that in there?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, another thing about Faruk.
[SPEAKER_04]: because this is I mean if that's really what's happening is because for who is making it happen and he it's interesting to me that David in future cids timeline killed for who can the desert and then apparently destroy the world well that's an important point there
[SPEAKER_04]: All we're what we're arguing is whether David is a good person or not.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean in this timeline for Rook knew about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So then he engineered this plan so that Sidney would come and stop David from killing for Rook and now for Rook lives.
[SPEAKER_04]: So David did not kill him in the desert and maybe because of that he won't destroy the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: So
[SPEAKER_04]: If he's has a potential to destroy the world for real, then I'd say that's kind of an important factor to consider when you're considering whether he's a good guy or not.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm fragile.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the thing about Legion that's so great and horrible.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's so powerful and yet so fragile, psychologically.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is very sensitive.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's very powerful with his powers and his mind, but he is very sensitive.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he was completely broken.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when Sidney was turning on him, and then again, during the end, during that time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in season one, a lot of the time, too, he was just all fucked up.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, what's your, what, too?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, number two.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my number two is David's inner reflections.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's basically some of the conversation, which we've covered a lot of, whenever he's having his conversations with his other aspects of his mind in the basement.
[SPEAKER_03]: I noticed that he acknowledged his omega mutant status.
[SPEAKER_03]: Have we heard them say that before?
[SPEAKER_03]: We've heard him talk about being a powerful mutant.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that we've ever heard it reference.
[SPEAKER_03]: If it has, and it was kind of lost on me somewhere,
[SPEAKER_03]: But I thought that was kind of interesting how you acknowledge himself as what is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Omega mutant, it's like the most powerful Alpha Omega, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Gene Gray is another example of.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, she's an Omega level.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So totally makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just thought it was kind of interesting that he like acknowledged himself and he just kind of, you know, just like, oh, and just, you know, Omega mutant and all, you know, just kind of just whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's seeing himself as a god, I think.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when a part of him is, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a part of him, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I liked that scene when he was captured under that dome and trying to get for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then when you did break free, which I thought super cool that they thought they could hold them, but they couldn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then he lights up in this bright angelic light in his body.
[SPEAKER_04]: It goes kind of arches back.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it really did look like some kind of a spiritual thing or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: It did look godlike for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very good moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we talked a lot about that already.
[SPEAKER_03]: One aspect of his mind was trying to tell David as love for Sidney as a delusion.
[SPEAKER_03]: David commenced I think in a way that you know David gets out of clockworks and he's not taking meds anymore because he meets Sidney gets out of clockworks and he's convinced that Sidney saved him and that their love is like now what keeps him sane to a certain degree versus like needing that medication or therapy and that Sidney made him good and would save him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's what Noah Holley said in the article that she's like his medication now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just like that whole scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like how we get that back to season one where we see that whole his bedroom or basement, whatever that he was in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we finally get to see the actual physical form of the boy says he's been talking to us because we kept hearing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we realized it wasn't like season one, whenever he was the British voice that he had that he was talking to himself, his British side, his reasonable side.
[SPEAKER_03]: but we had these other two.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we actually got to see them and then kind of be like, okay, we weren't just making that up.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is talking to himself.
[SPEAKER_04]: You heard, yeah, a little whispers of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, season one, you just heard like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then in season two, you heard, well, you should do this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now you should do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you could hear that it was Dan Stevens voice.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I wonder if this is how they are
[SPEAKER_04]: Q and closer to the comics where Legion is called Legion because he has a Legion of personalities inside him that they're all gonna look like dance evens or next season we'll have him bring in other people and have I don't know
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, like they're not really his personalities, but he they're disguising themselves as him like this is a part of you, but it's not really like the person always are a part of him, but they're not really him.
[SPEAKER_03]: They came from somebody else exactly, but they have his face and his voice.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I I told Lager that I think that's where they were leading off not just with the show of powers that he had there at the end, but again with the you know, not only were we hearing those voices, but now we actually get to see them.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's interacting with them.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I like when he's trying to tell people that he's saying and then one of them says something and he goes shut up and it's like that doesn't really help you.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm perfectly saying I'm not crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was trying to pay attention to their personalities a little bit as I think you were to and I think they were fairly distinct.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think one was trying to pump him up like this world owes you everything because of what you've been through and the other one is like you're delusional and you're sick and so one's putting him down and one's building him up
[SPEAKER_04]: There are a couple different ways I was looking at that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've always thought of the way to handle problems as to try and be grounded, but open.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you can go on either side of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a less healthy way.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're on one side, you're shrinking away from things.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're kind of hiding out or withdrawing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's represented by the personality that's like, you're sick, you're delusional, you know, you're nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: and then the other side of that is posturing where guys just like what you want to focus me like being badass and you know that's the other guy like you're a god you don't know these people anything both of those posturing and withdrawing are still forms of being closed off to what's actually happening that if you're really like integrated and healthy then you can be strong but still be present I guess I don't know if it makes any sense of the other thing makes sense awesome
[SPEAKER_04]: the other one and I don't know if this totally fits but it's kind of irresistible to talk about because it's all about psychology is maybe one's more it and one's like super ego where it is just like I want to be satisfied compulsive you know I want to be gratified and an animalistic and then super ego is more like your conscious yourself consciousness and stuff like that I don't know
[SPEAKER_04]: But I like to see a bunch more personalities end up in there eventually.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm totally down for that because, you know, if that is where they're headed, you know, he has a lot of personalities in the comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it would be interesting if they do explore.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And very distinct ones.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he's having a, you know, he's having a psychotic break there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was definitely having a psychotic break.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was something that happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't the same event, this type of event.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, it didn't happen that way in the comics, but it was a psychotic break.
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe that caused him, you know, for all of these personalities to become like revelant and present in his life.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think they were absorbed into him in the crowd.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, through the terrorist attack.
[SPEAKER_03]: Through the terrorist attack on his father.
[SPEAKER_03]: He lost his father or his, sorry, adopted father, lost his adopted father in that terrorist attack and due to that, had absorbed all of the, the people that had died their personalities in that attack.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I think that's where we're headed.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I realized that I've gone through all my points.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have some notes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, because my number one is the end game and we've talked a lot about the trial or the intervention however you would like to refer to it or all the folks out there listening want to refer to it and what happens during that.
[SPEAKER_04]: You didn't intervention yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: You didn't intervention.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but yeah, we've, you know, we've talked a lot about how these are supposed to be people that care about you and they totally went around about it in the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_03]: They didn't do it in a loving way and nurturing way a healthy way and that's why do firmly believe and probably be proven wrong and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can accept it because Legion I'm very forgiving.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell me I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, trying to figure out some other points that I was, I mean, you do firmly believe that what?
[SPEAKER_03]: that fruit is that they're all under a fruit's control.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it made me question, like, if they turned him in the monster that they were trying to prevent, you know, how far back does this go?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we got confirmation, which Carrie speculated, male Carrie speculated on it on that orb that David was trapped in for a year during the between season one and season two, that he's like, I think I made this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I'm familiar.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they've confirmed that he made it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So how far back this have went that somehow for root could have possibly influenced everything that's just happened that he influenced Carrie to make this urban trap.
[SPEAKER_03]: David and how future said present herself.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if it's certainly, I think that's what they were saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think that they were talking about how Futur Sid said that David destroyed the world and that prompted male carry to make this orb to go back and get David from the past.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think they said it in this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just that I'm speculating about like how far back this manipulation goes and how and and did because we don't really I don't think at this point really thought food cut anything to do with with this, but something had a facilitate David being trapped in this orb and carried it in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was futuristic wanting to try and go back and prevent him from destroying the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then where did it go from before that point?
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: How did she get to that point?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because David destroying the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and then I thought what was interesting out of that scene, talking about my belief that everyone is under forrikes control is in the scene, David's wearing white.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone else is wearing black.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, they were talking about just before that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm wearing black.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always wearing black.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's dark in twisty like me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Black like my soul is what I always say.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you mentioned earlier about the all the bruised apples and the one and bruised apple being the bad one.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were also talking about like
[SPEAKER_03]: They brought up the delusion in the egg and all of that whenever we saw David talking in the basement.
[SPEAKER_03]: But what didn't get brought up was one of the other stories that we got with John Hamm about mass panic.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why I feel like that whole room was mass panic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there was this panic about David being a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: He did say it.
[SPEAKER_04]: David said it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He said I think this is mass hysteria at one point, but it was real quick.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so you know I picked up on that and then we get where there's talk about the tenth man getting hung because the other nine are in agreement but the tenth man's not so he's the one that gets hung and I feel like that's you know David's that tenth man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know just just the color and just how just something always seemed just a little bit off just didn't sit right with me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So those were the only other outstanding things that we hadn't covered yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think that Sid is probably right that when she says it's both that David did at least have a propensity for mental illness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think it's possible anyway.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that the shadow king exacerbated it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's why this show is interesting that it's not just one thing or the other.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if, yeah, I've just things could have been handled better than it wouldn't blow up like this, but the shadow king's influence is really what makes it all the worst possible outcome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're making, you know, and like I said, I don't want to rationalize or make it sound forgivable what he did, but you know, they keep talking about how awful he is and he kills people and he's the world killer.
[SPEAKER_03]: When he, because he's like fine, if I'm all of these things, then just let me leave.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll just go, I'll go away on a disappear and you'll never hear from me and they're like, nope, it's either termination or you're gonna have to be dragged up and have therapy and there were no options and to me that just isn't how you reason with someone is to be so closed off and that these are the only options that are can be on the table.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when he did break out of that force field that they had him under which was so super cool badass by the way.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, so loved that whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't hurt anyone.
[SPEAKER_03]: on his way out.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wasn't.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: People, he didn't put it in one of the room.
[SPEAKER_04]: He floated all their heads.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: He could have, you know, and even if he didn't kill anyone, he didn't like, you know, with a swipe of his hand, knock him out to prevent him from leaving.
[SPEAKER_03]: He just, he teleported out, went and got Lenny.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, hey, I'm such a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go do bad things together, you know, and let's just like, all right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what about Blonde?
[SPEAKER_03]: And he just left.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't hurt anyone.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, so it's like, is he as bad as what people are making him out to be?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he didn't take anyone out on his way out.
[SPEAKER_03]: He just, he wanted to get out of there because they left him with, to me, almost no options.
[SPEAKER_03]: To me, the being drugged up in therapy or death is not options.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're saying all that, and I agree, except I also think that, well, if things go particularly bad for David, he's so fragile that he might end up destroying the world, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he's in three he does.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, was it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Just because, just the fact that that's a possibility means that I do think that division three would be smart to try and mitigate that or contain it somehow.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just don't think the way they went about it was very good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we were saying the same thing that they just weren't they could have offered him some better options.
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll have to say about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's see.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got a few notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that Carrie was so stoked to have having fought the Minotaur and kept bringing it up.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, the hardest thing that's like those bullying-clean cubes that we had as a kids, but it didn't taste like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, oh, that went dark real fast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what were you doing?
[SPEAKER_04]: Did some blood get in your mouth or were you just like, ah, ah!
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at that blood got everywhere because Sydney told David, he's like, are you okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got a lot of blood there on your neck and she's like, it's not mine.
[SPEAKER_04]: She had the head.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's see predictions for next season.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I need to do any predictions.
[SPEAKER_04]: They've left it in a cool place.
[SPEAKER_04]: Noah Hawley calls it season three the third act.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I feel like I haven't said he's had a structure in mind for this whole thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And do you think he'll wrap it up next season?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what he has in mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen that far ahead.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would like to see it go maybe to four.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: At this point, I just want no holly to be able to do whatever he thinks would be best for his story.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if that's three and four would just be like a stretch it out, then I would rather he not do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if he has a good story for four, then yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, absolutely, because I have total faith in Noah Holly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like this man can do no wrong to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: He loves water.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love him so much right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm obsessed with him because I'm also watching Fargo.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm watching Fargo, I'm watching Legion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's so.
[SPEAKER_04]: We should do a Fargo on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: We can just keep it going.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's an idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's so weird to see because Rachel Keller, who plays Sidney, will I know you've seen Fargo, but for folks that may have not, she's in season two of Fargo.
[SPEAKER_03]: So watching season two right now and her character in that show and seeing the show, it's very different.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of weird messing with me, but I saw that first.
[SPEAKER_04]: So then I'm like, oh, she's a good girl now when we got to Legion.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if you guys I don't I'm not saying we will do this, but I'm just curious if you want us to cover Fargo let let me know I'm curious to know if you guys want that
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's so good.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hate that I waited so long.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew it was a good show.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just, it's always that there's not enough time in the day to add another darn show.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I finally, you know, with Legion being so in love with Noah Hawley and his writing skill and what he does creatively that I'm like, I've got to watch Fargo.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it turned me onto that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now I'm just on this Noah Hawley high.
[SPEAKER_03]: that if he is feeling good about whatever story, however far he feels that this can go season three season four, as long as he's feeling good about it, I'm on board.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely, I agree with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, do you have any other notes or anything?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we covered most of my notes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: When David, with her out in the desert, he's wiped his head out and Lenny was captured by division three.
[SPEAKER_03]: He hops in the back and he tells her, you know, she's like, oh, it's a lecture chair for me and he's like, no, because I think God has planes for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was talking about himself.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was wondering what you thought about that if you thought that was in reference to himself.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was very provocative and meant to make us ask that question.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know the answer.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know either.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just thought it was kind of interesting because then he has his, as he's having conversations because he hasn't had the conversation jet with himself or wait maybe he did because that was after the shots were fired.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sidney missed and they were kind of blown back or whatever from, and that's when he was having those conversations with himself.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, oh, you're a God, you're a God.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you can do a podcast just by himself, and there would be three hosts at least.
[SPEAKER_04]: And one would be a total negative person.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all the cars.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, back, it's time for the news.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, a couple items this week kind of long.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully this won't be too long, but I thought, you know what, it's a finale.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's appropriate.
[SPEAKER_03]: First item that we have is from Entertainment Weekly.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was taken from an interview with Noah Hawley.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't know who he is by now, turn his podcast right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, first question, the season finale ends with David emerging as this villain.
[SPEAKER_03]: Has that always been the plan with this character?
[SPEAKER_03]: Holly says, yeah, for me, I always had this question in my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: What would happen if Walter White was a supervillain?
[SPEAKER_03]: That breaking bad superhero show.
[SPEAKER_03]: This idea, especially in the X-Men universe, that the moral line between good and evil is often federal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Magneto, who sometimes is their villain, and sometimes is on their side,
[SPEAKER_03]: And the idea of what the right thing to do is can shift depending on the circumstances.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wanted to evolve the show so that you realize over time that maybe David's not the hero of your show, but maybe Sid is the hero of your show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Once you see that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not liking Sid so much right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a little difficult, but it's a lot of both sides.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a pretty bad superhero like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think you brought that up again.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, once you see that, it becomes a different show on some level.
[SPEAKER_03]: You'll watch it with different eyes at that point, which doesn't mean that David can't come back or that in the end, he doesn't find his way back.
[SPEAKER_03]: But on some level, the whole show is a mental illness parable.
[SPEAKER_03]: The idea that David tried to kill himself and he went into the hospital and they straightened him out and they gave him his meds and they let him out and took his meds for a while.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then he decided he didn't need them and then he went off of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now he's in this iconic break, except he replaced the words, meds with love.
[SPEAKER_03]: He realized he had this love story and love was making him a better person, a sainer, more stable person.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he started lying to the woman that he loved and not being consistent.
[SPEAKER_03]: When he turned his back on the love story, everything started to fall apart for him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what's the lesson here?
[SPEAKER_04]: Be a better liar.
[SPEAKER_04]: haha.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's what I mean.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've noticed I've mentioned it on the podcast that this season was kind of weird because David seemed really stable for a lot of it and it was kind of relaxing for me to watch him after all that upset last season.
[SPEAKER_04]: feel really in charge and kind of steady and you still heard the voices but it was sort of in the background and he had a command of things and then it all fell apart at the end.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it was Sid.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that really did it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he shouldn't have been lying and hiding things and stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't help the situation in her feelings of trust.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And lack of trust that she had for him there and then for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't know how to engender trust at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Next question was, you mentioned that maybe Sid is the real hero of Legion.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you see this next phase of the story focusing more on Sid?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, Holly says, yeah, on the level that it's their story, I think she should always be front and center.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think we went a long way this year towards expanding your understanding of her.
[SPEAKER_03]: We had that fourth hour where we saw her childhood from many different angles and how she became the person that she is and the fact that she's not a pushover by any means and she's someone who's learned to embrace the ugliest parts of herself as her strength and not her weaknesses.
[SPEAKER_03]: To the degree that all of the X-Men franchise is a metaphor about being an outsider, you're mutant, but we've seen it as a metaphor for many different kinds of exclusion.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of the time with these characters, the powers that they have are directly connected to the way they don't fit into society,
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a way to redefine their weaknesses as their strength.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what makes it exciting and relatable to the audience.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is the perfect show for him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love the way he ties all this super natural stuff into real life.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the ways we really feel about things and stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: But one thing I just thought of is he's comparing it to Walter White and Breaking Bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that makes me think that maybe David's just going to be more and more for that guy as the series goes on, which is a little heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if that's what he's alluding to because we definitely saw the evolution for anyone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I don't know if I want to say that or not, but we definitely just know what we're thinking bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: Breaking bad is about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so good guy turns into a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, just gets worse.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they say the David, we see at the very end as much closer to the Legion we know in the comics with all the split personalities.
[SPEAKER_03]: Since you're now two full seasons into the story, has your relationship to the comic books changed at all in terms of what you do and do not include from the page.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, yeah, the character in the comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a complexity to his origin story and the powers in the way that they work that seemed a hard ask of the audience to say, well, you have these multiple personalities in each one has its own powers.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're seeing the birth of this character that we may know from their comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the idea that organically we got to a place where we had a moment last year where a rational British version of David popped out to help him out in a scenario.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this year we end up with three David's all arguing different points of view.
[SPEAKER_03]: That may increase in season three, and of course, if so, creating different versions with different voices.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to see if I can put them through phases I suppose.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's good to know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Next question was after, after handing the shadow king all season long, he pops in at David's trial, nonchalantly, and nobody seems to be freaked out by him anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you see him as being an ally now in the sense that division three, even though they were enemies now are sort of allies?
[SPEAKER_03]: He says I think it's really interesting what I'm attempting here, which is this idea that a lot of time in these comic book stories you have a takeaway where you feel like might make right and the only solution to a problem is war.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what I'm playing around with is the idea that there's really no such thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: that in real life you can fight your enemies, but ultimately you have to make peace with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it may be an uneasy peace, and it may not be a lasting peace.
[SPEAKER_03]: At a certain moment, if you're division three, and you're realizing your biggest problem is David, then you do need for Rook as a weapon in that battle, so you have to make peace with him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now that may play exactly into Frank's hands, but it was an element that seemed like it would generate more of an interesting storyline
[SPEAKER_03]: than just a fight sequence leading to a larger fight sequence leading to a larger ultimate fight sequence.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I guess that means that he's suggesting they had him on their side in case they needed him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like before I was arguing against that because you could see that their plan did not require him as far as we saw they captured him in that dome.
[SPEAKER_04]: But maybe they thought they would need him for whatever the next phase was or they had him in their pocket in case they needed him and David just broke out and kind of teleported away and they didn't do the way they planned.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well because who else their division three is it any psychic or mutant level then for Rook?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's David is extremely powerful and for Rook is really about the only one in his level that can defeat him.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if they're thinking the David's the big problem, then we need for Rook to help us.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe control him if he goes ballistic here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or then that, yeah, then that sort of changes my whole view that it could either be that fruit is manipulating them all or maybe he's not manipulating them at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just, yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: that they did include him and make a very short piece.
[SPEAKER_04]: All he did was show them show Sydney visions of what David was really like and we saw Carrie who figured out how to look at a recording of what happened in the desert and he saw David wiping Sydney's mind and we saw somebody else find something else out I forget what it was but
[SPEAKER_04]: they made it so that it could just be no psychic manipulation at all and them just discovering things about David and making them think that he's a bad guy which is I don't I don't like that but yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: So here is another item that we have from business insider.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is also taken from an interview with Noah Hawley.
[SPEAKER_03]: First question, season two leaves David in a really bad place, and some viewers might look at him as the bad guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you look at good and evil in terms of this show?
[SPEAKER_03]: So Hawley says, it has an echo of Fargo for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: In Fargo, there's always a moment where the person who's doing the worst things says, I'm the victim here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we have with David this idea at the end that he's a good person and deserves love.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a certain victimization that's in his DNA.
[SPEAKER_03]: This idea that he never had a chance because this demon came into him when he was a child and his life was basically ruined before it began.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a human being and deserves love just like anyone else and it's that vulnerability that pushes him to make choices that are not moral on some level because ultimately he is putting himself before said and before everyone else.
[SPEAKER_03]: The question becomes to what degree can we empathize with him because of his backstory and what point do we lose him?
[SPEAKER_03]: That moment when said says, you drugged me and had sex with me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where's the audience at that point?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wiped her memories so he could keep a relationship with her, but then of course, her consent to anything that happened went out the window entirely.
[SPEAKER_03]: From his point of view, he loves her and needs her.
[SPEAKER_03]: It becomes very twisted and you certainly don't see that normally in these sorts of stories.
[SPEAKER_03]: Next question was, how did the last minute extra episode come to be?
[SPEAKER_03]: I know we were wondering about that as well, how that came about.
[SPEAKER_03]: Noah Holly says, I found over the course of the season that the show doesn't want to be long.
[SPEAKER_03]: With Fargo, we were long sometimes because there's a lot of story to get across.
[SPEAKER_03]: With Legion, because of how much we're asking of the audience in terms of the fantastical nature of it and the non-linear storytelling and the surreal elements,
[SPEAKER_03]: It felt to me the more concise these episodes were the better.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there were some elements that ended up on the cutting room floor over the course of the season.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of them surrounded actors Jean Smart and Jameen Clement, who play Melanie and Oliver, and that relationship and how he came in and got into her head to seduce her.
[SPEAKER_03]: She has this big turn where she goes over to the dark side and when we had cut out all that stuff out and I watched that big turn, it just didn't mean enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: We hadn't earned it yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I don't get how that explains how we got an extra episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: They cut stuff out.
[SPEAKER_03]: They cut stuff out and they piece it back together.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yes, you didn't really say that though.
[SPEAKER_03]: He said it in another interview as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: So why do we have an extra episode?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, because we had to cut a bunch of stuff out.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't want it to be long, but we added an extra episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, you're fucking with us.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, Holly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm okay with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't mind at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have one more item also from Entertainment Weekly and this was an interview with Rachel Keller who placed Sydney.
[SPEAKER_03]: They say you essentially play two different roles the season present they said and future said and embodying future said, did you know the end game?
[SPEAKER_03]: She says the version of her in the future who knows what happens and why and how she certainly wants to fix it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did I know?
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess I knew that she had taken him in the orb and I knew that she was going to try to change the past in some way.
[SPEAKER_03]: There were oftentimes when I forgot I was playing her.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was surreal to get into the makeup and hair for her and I often saw playing her as if I was a different actress.
[SPEAKER_03]: They asked her when did you realize the hero of David was becoming more of a villain.
[SPEAKER_03]: She says, I wonder if I always knew that.
[SPEAKER_03]: The comic of character is so troubled and complicated.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is always the villain, so I think I was always aware we were telling the story of how he got there.
[SPEAKER_03]: One more, she said they say what I've been loving is how the relationship between Sid and David has gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's emerged as one of the only people who can be intimate with Sid because of their own abilities, but she's also realizing he's losing his grip on reality and has take action and developing that relationship and season two what were your biggest takeaways.
[SPEAKER_03]: She says there's the duality again what sacrifices and what it really costs someone to give up something for the better of humanity.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love stories where the center of it is a big question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone pulled between two very diametrically opposed places and she certainly at the center of that question, how do I reconcile needing personal love and acceptance and also knowing as we see in the penultimate episode seeing things about him that she perhaps hasn't wanted to see and know before.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it for the news.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess I'm ready for a break on this.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a bit heart breaking.
[SPEAKER_03]: This one really did me in.
[SPEAKER_03]: This week was a hard week.
[SPEAKER_03]: I watched Los Angeles, the other day, because that's the other show I'm currently podcasting on in this latest episode, was really difficult for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I just watched that one podcasted with Sean and then had to turn around and watch Legion.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought, oh my gosh, I cannot emotionally take it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Difficult episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to watch some happy puppy videos or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'll be ready for it again in a year, but absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm pleased to end.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's get into some mental notes first from Damon C. Maxwell.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, now we pray.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is not going to be a feel good story in the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_03]: Elliott Max says, not sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like the tragic direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is headed.
[SPEAKER_06]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, then you better stop watching.
[SPEAKER_03]: Better stop watching.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what Noah Hallie's been warning us, tragedy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rory Tons sent in a long email.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, I think Sid was definitely under fruits, thrall after Lacksweast last week's barrage.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I also think Fukiyama is as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Last week there was a scene where the vermillion fought for Luke's Minitor in the astral plane.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I couldn't figure out how that happened until the reveal that Fukiyama was in the desert.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I reckon that's when and how fruit got him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that also now makes sense that fruit got clarked through Melanie the week before.
[SPEAKER_04]: Male carry even wanted to give Sid a cat scan, but she refused.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just so he's saying fruits got his tendrils in everybody's minds.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just want to say, David, mind-wiping Sid and taking advantage of her was a bit of a dick move, but it played right into Furuk's plan, which leads us to the confrontation.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got Sid, Clark, and Fukiyama all into Furuk's influence, and Furuk himself all conspiring against David.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there any wonder he wigs out, and the other David show up?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was going to mention that the other David personalities that we've heard kind of whispering got really loud as soon as Sydney shot at him.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's when he just got messed up and more psychologically unstable, I think.
[SPEAKER_04]: He goes on, an offering gave it therapy and drugs was never going to fly with him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I think back to the end of Oliver and Melanie's segment, Oliver asks, and why did he turn this David person?
[SPEAKER_04]: Melanie answers because she showed him his future.
[SPEAKER_04]: Initially, I thought this was in reference to Future Sid, but I think it's more about this scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: What scene is that?
[SPEAKER_04]: The end scene?
[SPEAKER_04]: where they tell him that he's the one who destroys the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_04]: He goes on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Next season will be very interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think David has lost it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think he just realized Ferook had him beat.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he regrouped, and his only ally against Ferook, Lenny, with his only ally.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think it'll be the two of them against Ferook and Division III with David trying to win back his girl.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think Melanie and Oliver are at the monastery, but living in the astro planes.
[SPEAKER_04]: So not sure how they they'll fit in.
[SPEAKER_04]: But who the fuck knows with Mr. Holly?
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, my brain hurts again, so until next year, see you over at Westworld Jason and I will see you in Hawkins, Rima.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can't see in Hawkins, Rory, thanks.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rory, I think your story is...
[SPEAKER_04]: the traditional hero's story.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I am afraid that's not the story that Noah Hollis telling, especially after these interviews that we read, I think it's going to be tragic and hard and David being a villain.
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe you're right that, I mean, as you can probably hear during the podcast, I was kind of hoping that way too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I want fruit to be the one that's like causing all of this and David can win over him in the end, but it looks like it might just be that David is a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know, I don't know how he's going to come back from this.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, especially after this sex thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like you can't come back from that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And even like if you if you mind wipe your partner and you don't tell them about it,
[SPEAKER_04]: Then how is your relationship ever going to be good again?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you're going to have that secret.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't be trust issues.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you don't just give someone a psychography and expected.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just trust me.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a good quote.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, Rory.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad you're listening to those other podcasts.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have one call this week.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a long one and it's a good one.
[SPEAKER_04]: I will actually have a listen, but it's from Laura.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Laura will be sweet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let you Laura.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey Jason and Rima, I finally got cut up on Legion and I covertly watched the finale today on my phone at work so that I could get my thoughts in on the finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm torn a little bit over these last two episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the visuals and musical choices as always that unlike last season where we kind of could cheer for our heroes and admire David for his restraint with Division III and his decision to choose peace and negotiation over violence.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing a David that is really sadistic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something we've never seen in any except for the last two episodes that I can recall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, we've seen him as junkie and paranoid and obviously unstable, but never intentionally cruel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really couldn't believe it when David was torturing Oliver because of anyone David should know that the shadow king may possess someone's mind, but that body was Oliver's.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just never saw any signs of David being so callous and cruel in any of the previous episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I want to pause it there because I remember thinking in season one, especially in Division three, when Division three used to be, you know, the bad guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when David was using his power, like in the pool, when he was using it to just flame up everything, when he burned Clark's face.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: He looked kind of into that.
[SPEAKER_03]: He did look a little into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was relishing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I don't know if he was relishing his power because he had just that was like kind of right after he discovered he had it or if he was relishing the fact he's hurting people.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: But whatever it was, it was the same kind of thing that if you were his girlfriend, you might go, oh, you look like you were kind of into that.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what's up with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was my perception back then.
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember thinking like, ooh, he looks like there's a dark side to him there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, here's the rest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm kind of in synth juice right now, feeling a little betrayed by the one you love, but in my case, it's the writers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's on purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can also feel David's sense of betrayal being judged on future crimes in a minority report sort of way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I feel a little bit let down after the ending of what was my favorite episode of the season, the multiple universes episode where we could see all the tragic possibilities of David Holler and our David ends up ultimately at Clockworks, which at first seemed depressing, but turned out to be his redemption because there he found friendship love and understanding and purpose, but
[SPEAKER_01]: With this finale, I feel maybe all of that was just a major misstep and that maybe Melanie and Summerland should have left him drugbed up in the psych ward.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the most depressing part of the finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some things that I did enjoy was that we get to see a representation of David's multiple personalities, not quite the same it is as it is in the comic books, but you can see starting to develop those multiple personalities.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was really hoping for the return of British David
[SPEAKER_01]: them didn't get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The animated mental battle with Ferruc and David was another original way to show mutant powers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that they're always coming up with new and inventive ways to showcase that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I loved the Melanie and Oliver segment where we finally get to see them having a little bit of happiness living in the ice cube.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things that I didn't like were mostly things that had been set up earlier, but never came to fruition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was hoping we'd find out how future Sid lost her arm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a feeling that I'll never be revealed, or maybe we'll never even happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or all of our telling-for-reviewed kill-em, we never get the explanation of what is one plus one.
[SPEAKER_01]: not to mention, well, we've never gotten an explanation for what did the stars say from season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's something we should have already figured out by now or something that will come into play next season that maybe Noah Holley's just sitting sinisterly in his writer's chair laughing at all with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing that was projected that didn't happen was that David did not kill for Luke.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm hoping this will change future since timeline.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really hoping that's going to change David's current trajectory.
[SPEAKER_01]: So glad there's going to be a season three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope if it's the last one that it goes out with a bang and hopefully we'll get to see a bit of David's mother, which
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they've ever touched on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want Amy to come back in some way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe as David's conscience because I truly believe that she's someone who's loved him his whole life and I would love, love, love to see Professor X pop up to help his tortured son.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to see David turn into a monster.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had such sympathy for him for so long and I understand those dark places he's going to have to go to.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me,
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the son of Professor X, and I ultimately want him to find the path of peace, and maybe love.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can regularly be a cynical person, but at the core, I'm really aromantic, and I want to see a happy ending for David Holler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great podcast guys, you did a awesome season, and hopefully we'll see you again next year with Legion.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think you will.
[SPEAKER_06]: If it comes back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they said that they start, they're wrapping, are they're coming back in November to start filming?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, production starts.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: They get a little bit of a break.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just, I feel like the best way to go with this show Lara is to expect a tragedy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then if anything else happens, you'll be pleasantly surprised, or at least be ready for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like
[SPEAKER_04]: Unless you just don't want to watch it if that's the case then maybe just don't watch it and then you'll find out whether you should watch it after it's all over and then you can binge it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's unacceptable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course we're gonna watch it no matter what happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like if I can live through these last few episodes because I'm with you Laura.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt this betrayal.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt the betrayal on Sid's side.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt the betrayal on David's side.
[SPEAKER_03]: And everything that happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel betrayed as well and completely heartbroken.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I need to sit with someone and just kind of cry over this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a big cryer, but sometimes I just feel better if I could just cry about this and move on and feel good about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just saying, if you want, if you need the show to have a happy ending, then you might be sorely disappointed.
[SPEAKER_04]: It looks like it's not heading in that direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's going to be, I mean, that's why we want it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think that's where it's going to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like with Breaking Bad, I was ready for the worst, you know, and I enjoyed every minute of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I feel the same way you can tell in my voice like I like David and I want I want him to be the hero and have everything work out and Maybe he'll just have to go through a lot of hell first and then he will find some peace But I think there's a very good chance that he'll just destroy the world in the finale or something you know like you never know
[SPEAKER_04]: She mentioned Future Sid's arm.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like still there's this specter of David potentially destroying the world hanging over the show and I think they'll maybe still explore that, so maybe we'll still get to see Future Sid's arm, maybe Sid will lose her arm.
[SPEAKER_03]: maybe and we we saw in the was it the penultimate episode the whether or not it was a possibility of what could happen or was it a future glimpse of what could happen when we saw David like the Legion from the comics David right and it's hair spike in stuck that in there exactly so it's like yeah I feel like they don't show this stuff without a purpose so could have been to that you know we don't know she mentioned stars from the first season I don't remember that
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember the scene exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: When she, I think it was David and Sidney, I thought we're having a conversation and one of them asked the other, what did the star say?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been a little while.
[SPEAKER_06]: We don't know what they said.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do remember that, but I think there's a couple things that we're not going to exactly get a lot of answers on and that they're out there like the cow.
[SPEAKER_04]: The green hands we never were.
[SPEAKER_03]: The green hands, I think that we did talk about that in an interview.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't add that in the notes and I'll... Well, don't say what it is because we're going to have to tune in next year to find out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: The bigger feel for the green hands.
[SPEAKER_03]: Stay tuned.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just kidding.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you say what it was?
[SPEAKER_04]: What was it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they were talking about, you know, in the last episode, the big bath plug.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was talking about how this was something that he modeled after.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can't remember exactly because I read a lot of news and stuff on this on this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I can't tell you verbatim.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was talking about that and how it was kind of how he kind of modeled this after
[SPEAKER_03]: something else that he was influenced by by taking these everyday items and making them kind of big and oversized.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he did that with this bath plug.
[SPEAKER_03]: He did it with those hands.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it kind of was like, his purpose was kind of making you look at them in a different kind of way.
[SPEAKER_03]: These everyday things.
[SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't explain, no, it's more visual.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't really have a purpose or an explanation.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just making you look at everyday things in a different kind of way.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there goes my green hands.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have really have a theory for that, but I noticed what the hell's up with these green hands, and then I'm like, what the hell's up with this cow?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we're gonna know what's up with the cow either, and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alright, that is our show for the season episode nineteen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks so much for listening to everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope you enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Want to mention again, you can find our other shows at podcast to cut dot com that's PODC-A-S-T-I-C-A dot com.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you want to get in on that Patreon, it's patreon dot com slash Jason and Karen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Come join the fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sayonara.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sayonara.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_04]: Stay singing.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you a good person?