[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know the time you want, I'll get it back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause you're not real.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing that hurts me is real.
[SPEAKER_03]: No one who hates me is real.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, now you're listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, listen to this.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to eat something each shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll go tell your friends.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not your time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's mine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I kill every one of you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast, I'm Jason.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Rima.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm Aeron.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the Legion podcast episode twenty three.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, I think we covered it time for the news.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's kidding.
[SPEAKER_05]: What time are the temporal corruption?
[SPEAKER_04]: That made things a lot easier.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just just add those, yeah, those clocks out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so it's our top three highlights for legencies and four three episode four chapter twenty three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Remo, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: I really liked it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought it was really great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved the, like, horror element that we got with those time demons.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think this one definitely set a few things forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it kind of, I don't want to say stuck in time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they said time so many times during that episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a little bit of of forwarding the plot a little bit like with Carrie, but I really liked kind of the peeling of the layers that we got of a couple of the characters.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, just like the the hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that that because I don't know that we got a lot of that with Legion before.
[SPEAKER_04]: This definitely felt like the more, yeah, most like a horror movie to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as far as the plot, I mean, basically it seems to me that the time demons are out of the picture, but now switch may have gone over to the other side, and that's kind of it for as far as, but yeah, this show is much more experiential than plot oriented.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say it's both, but anyway.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, Ron.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just wanted to, I was a little skeptical of the design of these things when I first saw them, but the way they moved it was so just inherently creepy and menacing that it actually reminded me in the kind of like the low budget this shouldn't work, but it does kind of way that the weeping angels do.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm totally like Dr. Who.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just that they're like it's something that you've never seen before and it's there's a sense of inevitability.
[SPEAKER_05]: that no matter how fast or well hidden you are or slide that they can find you wherever they are because we have control of time.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this, that plus they're kind of minimalist design or glowing eyes in the way that sometimes like when they'd freeze for and their eyes would like to be streaked and blurry, I thought it was just really really excellent horror and they hit that also with some emotional horror like the whole experience that Lini goes through with the birth and life cycle of her child.
[SPEAKER_05]: Really some just existential horror and dread and very very emotionally effective.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I thought it was great.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love how even though the first two episodes of this season were kind of similar that since then, well, we've only had two more, but they've both been pretty drastically different and also pretty different from, I mean, I just love how the show can pick a new tone for an episode or, and this was the horror episode, and I just thought it was really interesting and innovative.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the time demons are sitting there giggling about how they're fucking with everybody, and I also feel like that was the writers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just how can we play with time in the most terrific way?
[SPEAKER_04]: So for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I thought it was great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the look of them, I thought of the weeping angels.
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, I don't know, they, I don't know if you guys saw this, but there was that old Beatles movie cartoon, the Yellow submarine.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there we go.
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you seen that Rima?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, there's this creature that is basically a blue glove flying around, but it has big teeth and it smiles all the time in a creepy way and it's malevolent.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it kind of reminded me of that too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, okay, let's get into the top three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rima, what's your number three?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm number three.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna start with David.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really liked that scene when Lenny after she comes to get him and he's in his, like, I guess, like, this meditative state where he's, like, floating or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he goes upstairs and he's talking with his followers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was really creeped out by them calling him daddy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, like, that, I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, I was just,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just I don't get calling a you know adults and someone who's not your dad daddy Whether it's in a like a this like a sexual kind of nature or whatever was happening here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know but I don't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was a little bit of a turn off it
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just kind of kicked out like, oh, okay, I don't please stop saying Gattie.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just kept saying it over and over again.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I passed that, you know, I thought it was just an interesting exchange because we haven't really seen, I don't think we've really seen him interact with his followers much, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's always kind of off.
[SPEAKER_00]: doing his thing in his meditative state, he's teleporting somewhere else or an astral plane or projecting himself somewhere and haven't really seen him interact with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we actually got a little bit of interaction and he puts them in this drug-intuced haze because they're asking for it or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Lenny comes at him, you know, wanting, and he's like, you know, he tells her he's like, you know, if you can't be nice, I can't be nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was kind of interesting because I think we're starting to kind of see that faux exterior that he has up kind of start to slip away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you kind of see that, you know, interior of what's happening inside of him with, you know, he's so full of hurt and anger and self-justification.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're starting to see glimpses of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like when he says he's like, you want honest, here's honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to fix this, whatever it takes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever the universe throws at me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Division three, time demons send them all, I'll slay them all, because this is my time.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is David's time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that anytime someone starts referring to themselves and the third person, you should start to worry a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really like that exchange.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: A-Ron strongly agrees with what he did in my career.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of like you know, I mean if we didn't have any other inclinations like the title the he bestows upon himself the alphan the omega which is you know a biblical title for for god and I think also the Jesus Christ or if you're turned a tear in one of the same
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but I think it was interesting that his mother, when he's talking to her and that Nazi prison cell, uh, she asked, you know, what, what is this?
[SPEAKER_05]: And she says it's the beginning of the end, which is kind of another way to say the alphanomega.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was interesting how, um, they're, they're, they're playing with that, like, even in a dialogue that his, his, you know, grandiose title is also, uh, Harbinger of Doom.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like this episode, it reminded me of Breaking Bad because I'm rooting for David, but this is the episode where I'm like, no, I don't think I like him anymore.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I definitely got to that point with Walter White at some point during Breaking Bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: and the whole daddy thing and just he's not he doesn't give a shit about switch and whether she's hurt he kind of goes oh yeah yeah I see it's taking its toll but we gotta we gotta keep going and he's yeah he's really fragile with
[SPEAKER_04]: Lenny, he's like, you got to be careful with me, you know, be nice and you can tell his ego is really fragile and he's dangerous because of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's basically got this classic nice guy persona where he projects being nice, but it's totally a facade and underneath it's just a lot of fragility.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the problem is
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean he the whole what he's with his mother what you thought was his mother he doesn't even care about her problems which you're pretty big you know it's all about the Holocaust and he's all no no it's not about that it's about me and so he's just really caring about himself and nobody else but he's also not taking any responsibility he's he just wants to
[SPEAKER_04]: go back in time in a race what happened and he says I'm not crazy something was taken from me my life was taking from me so it's a whole victim mentality and Joanne Robinson from what did she write for?
[SPEAKER_04]: Vanie fair she called him a transgressor who refuses to look inward and I just think that's his fatal flaw he he won't look inward he's a victim he's got this victim mentality and
[SPEAKER_04]: And the way that he could save himself right now, whether or not I mean, yeah, our past sometimes things happen to us that shape us that weren't our fault, but then you got to work with what you've got.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if he would just decide, okay, what is going on with me right now, what do I need to do to fix it versus let me go make it so that the shadow king never entered me, then he could potentially move forward, but it looks like he's not going to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's pretty much was propelled him, you know, ever since the whole breakdown in last season is that whole mentality and how why he feels justified in his actions.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's, you know, thinking back when he was first taken to Summerland and the first thing they did was start going into his mind and into his memories and things and they were trying to do that work back then.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was open to it, but now I mean he's feeling like he was betrayed by them which he sort of was.
[SPEAKER_04]: So maybe they should have approached that in a different way versus just like trapping him there, you know, at the end of season two.
[SPEAKER_04]: But now he's like no way.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's totally got his defenses up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, that's not even my number three.
[SPEAKER_04]: My number three is actually a run.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's your number three?
[SPEAKER_05]: So are these in supposed to be reverse order of like are these to just in any arbitrary order?
[SPEAKER_04]: arbitrary.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay cool because I was worried that I was like stealing like oh if I had to take the bet okay anyway.
[SPEAKER_05]: Lenny's baby girl one violence Lali pop busker.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[SPEAKER_05]: I, I could not believe how emotionally affecting that this scene was and how well Aubrey Plaza sold it because they kind of started with like, oh, you know, there's these this DC women and they're in some sort of gay relationship and they're somehow pregnant and
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, it's like, oh, we're two girls and we'll make a girl and it's kind of, um, it's kind of like, not light-hearted but a little, like, there's just a little bit of like, um, like a, like a serviced or dream logic to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you start realizing that Lini's taking this really seriously.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, she's, she gives the whole, I'm just two weeks until retirement kind of speech, you know, until we blow this popsicle stand and I started thinking, oh boy, this is gonna be bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it didn't expect the badness to come into the full real estate.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't even know how to describe that sequence.
[SPEAKER_05]: She had the full realization and weight of what it's like to love and care for a child until they're dead.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't sure if like when they eat time that that just means a times jump at like all those events transpire or like the fact that like it just jumped in the time and like Lini sees this new development and it's and all that stuff has gone like that did like like like
[SPEAKER_05]: the autonomy says that the all these date date is just gone into blank like that was happening in between these like milestones that lany was waking up for uh... or rejoining the time stream for and then and then she's left the drawing that her daughter gave and this pilot us representing
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we saw what happens to the Apple, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, it's, it's, Lini's always been kind of a weird fun house character that you, I find it very hard to like kind of like care about or even treat her as a real character, but she's always been really fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is the first time she's actually made me feel something like like this.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I thought, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: It was just an amazing piece of writing.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was an amazing conceptually.
[SPEAKER_05]: It reminds me of like an old Ray Bradbury story or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some kind of weird six page short in a science fiction novel or anthology.
[SPEAKER_05]: And man, just it's a damn shame.
[SPEAKER_05]: More people don't watch the show so it would get more kind of like mainstream awards and support because the the actors on the show are just doing incredible work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no Holly wrote and did you direct Dreama this new movie coming out?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's it called Lucy in the sky?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think Dave Steven stars and so does Princess Amidala.
[SPEAKER_00]: Natalie Portman.
[SPEAKER_04]: Natalie Portman.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so the only reason why I bring that up is hopefully that'll at least get this team some attention because he deserves it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh gosh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, what did you think about that whole sequence, Rima?
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was very heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm right on board with what A-Ran said, everything that you said was right on par with my thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always kind of felt the same about Lenny.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was super fun, had some cute lines.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was always kind of keeping things interesting on the side, but never really took her that seriously until this moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she, gosh, I'll be positive, really brought it in that whole sequence and seeing her
[SPEAKER_00]: how she was acting with, you know, here's one minute she's holding her baby and then that baby's a little girl and then a teenager and then an adult with a baby of her own and, you know, letting this whole time's like, what the hell, you know, and then tries to even escape and then seeing her daughter as an older woman and it was interesting that her daughter seemed to really favor her too.
[SPEAKER_04]: which is kind of weird because again, you're all kind of like, because we know that mom was drinking that orange soda that was really alcohol and just totally fucked up, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think the implication was that she would have gone the other way and been a good mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was just, it was really heartbreaking and really emotional and it was like she just felt this whole lifetime of pain, you know, in just moments.
[SPEAKER_00]: In a moment's time, it was this whole lifetime and you could see how deeply it cut her at the end when she's kind of, you know, writing on the ground and David comes up to her and he wants to help her by kind of just making it go away, wants to kind of wipe her memory and she says, no, I need to feel it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that
[SPEAKER_04]: really kind of sent me over I was like oh man you know she she's tired of she's had enough of him and feels like I think she deals with him the same way she does drugs you know drug drug is an escape but she doesn't want to escape this and I think that's the whole point that she I guess I mean I'm just kind of guessing but
[SPEAKER_04]: This family is important to her.
[SPEAKER_04]: She says, I've got a family to protect today.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, she'll even stand up to him and he's fucking scary.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think that that is the point that up until now, she's been kind of entertaining and more of an antagonist to poke at other people on the show.
[SPEAKER_04]: But they wanted to give something to make us care about her, which worked.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so they did that by having her care about this family.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think the heartbreak of this whole sequence is for one thing just overwhelm that all these things coming so fast, but also yeah, that she missed it, that she missed all these things that are really important to her and now they're gone and it's gone and she didn't get to experience it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's the reason why she was so anguished at the end there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it seems like she's just outgrown David like their who realization that I have to feel this to process it is something you know like like Joanna mentioned you know to something that a transgressor who can't look in where that's something that he in fact he denies the reality anything that hurts me it's not real right anything that hates me it's not real it's like this like narcissistic delusion that he's trapped the trapped into and it's also
[SPEAKER_05]: but it's also like a coping mechanism like I mean it's like that's the that's the thing that's like it's hard to write off David completely because he's come by all this pathos honestly and you know despite his best efforts it's like he had the deck stacked against him but
[SPEAKER_05]: for whatever reason he's just not willing to open himself up to, you know, let a little bit, you know, let a little bit more hurt in to realize that you've let your friends down, the people that you love down, that you've hurt them, and hurt them in such a way that maybe there's no going back, but, you know, you have to pick yourself up and resolve to do better and, you know, send no more, he's just not capable of that introspection for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, yeah, soul searching is painful, taking responsibility is painful.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when he has such power, it's so easy to do something else instead, you know, to control the people around you and manipulate reality and all this to escape the truth of your situation.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, people who don't have any power have enough time, hard enough time deciding, okay, I'm going to take responsibility for my actions and try to change.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's most people never do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Much less with super speed powers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I think we all did our number three's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're on your number two, Rima.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my number two.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've already talked a little bit about the time demons, but they really creeped me out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really loved, you know, they were very unsettling for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like two big grins.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those really big creepy grins when they would get really up close to someone was very unsettling.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like blurred out kind of bodies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you could never really kind of tell what form they really had.
[SPEAKER_00]: because they were sometimes they kind of look like they could stand up like a human but yet they were crouched down and then I think when we first saw them like when they first realized they were there, when David was talking to Switch and Lenny and they start coming like down the stairs and she's like I don't know I think they look at cats well that's what you kind of think or what I thought I was seeing on
[SPEAKER_00]: like coming down the stairs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, oh gosh, they are kind of like cats, but they seem to take some other forms and it was just unsettling, not knowing for sure exactly what kind of form that they had.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're jittery movements that were kind of set to the sound of a clock.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that was really creepy and really, really effective to show how when they would move and with the timing of the clock.
[SPEAKER_00]: it, you could kind of see how it was like affecting time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of letting you know that every time that they moved, it's like they were messing with time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought it was really interesting how they used that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that they're so brilliant in explaining things to you and making it visually pleasing and not overexplaning, just kind of putting it out there and saying, this is what we're doing and you get it without it being like in your face and I really like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was trying to kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: make it's how they have what they could actually do and we saw that they could trap people and like this mental prison.
[SPEAKER_00]: They did that with Sydney and then they did it with David.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were able to inflict pain with their memories or their confrontations.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess they weren't really memories but you know they could confront them with images of their past and I guess they turned people to ash.
[SPEAKER_00]: So but I was kind of curious as to why there seemed kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: almost random because they got a whole I guess some of David's cult people some of his followers or whatever it's like the apple just rapidly.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I am.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like getting the full uh uh last crusade treatment and like a blink of an eye just go crash dash as dust dust
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that makes a little bit more sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I was all salmon.
[SPEAKER_05]: I actually got to see salmon get eaten.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like just as she hands the baby to sit, she disappears and leaves like a little pile of dust.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then when violence on the pop grows into an old woman and dies, it leaves Lynney cradling this pile of dust with her picture.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that's the inferences.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they kind of visually taught us that with the apple, I think.
[SPEAKER_04]: Who's salmon?
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that's uh, Lenny's girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I thought that was new Janine, but she's also salmon.
[SPEAKER_04]: Could.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm switch called her salmon and season one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, you're looking forced.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why they're okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't understand.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that little free form association.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, another fish like salmon.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll salmon's a color.
[SPEAKER_04]: How about violet?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I would like to talk about what a terribly refined, but badass monster the fruit is in this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, he's so soft and cool like the first time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably because again, I think
[SPEAKER_05]: we're gonna find out these the puppet master behind all this stuff and it's shooting his purpose but yes like just how kind of like fearless and powerful and cool like even like David struggles this time demon and for Rook just like rips one of their arms off and banishes him and then that moment which I'd you know we could talk about the the time between time and what a stunning sequence that is but when the rest of team time between time is getting kind of their ass is handed to him he like whistles
[SPEAKER_05]: and then pulls a sort of his mouth and lays down the law.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just, and he just looks so cool doing it too.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is kind of like, they can play in this later with David too, where it's like, as you were saying, it's kind of Walter White, because even the very final episode of Walter White, even though I was definitely turned against him at that point,
[SPEAKER_05]: He did pull off some pretty sweet shit.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was still capable of appreciating like you're a monster, but you're kind of magnificent too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're really good at it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was still complicated with him because not to get too much into ringing bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was doing what he thought he needed to do for his family.
[SPEAKER_04]: So even though you're kind of like, okay, you're beyond redemption, I still had a soft spot for him to agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like that David too is where it's relevant here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even though I'm like, okay, maybe you're past the point of no return.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's still like Lenny, you know, Lenny's challenging him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's like, hey, you better be careful with me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's not careful.
[SPEAKER_04]: She just doubles down on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then he goes, okay, all right, I'm gonna fix it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he doesn't, he, he, he looked like he had to struggle not to like turn her into a toad or something, but he did.
[SPEAKER_04]: He struggled with it and he didn't turn her into a toad.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so he, it's still not blocking away with him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, sorry, I cut you off.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just think that it's such amazing because I would I would guess this guy is not really an amazing stunt fighter, you know, but they always find the way to like, oh, we're going to do this all in CG or oh, we're going to do this all in some kind of self-shaded animation or oh, we're going to do it in stop motion essentially to where
[SPEAKER_05]: They sell the action and the swath and sophistication, but they don't have to have this guy jumping around doing Yoda from attacking the clone stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I just just really amazed at how they're able to visualize
[SPEAKER_05]: So economically these like to distill these things to where it's like you instantly understand what's to understand and a very minimalist way just like you know how do you tell the story of Lini losing a child that you haven't even introduced yet in five minutes in the last act of the last you know before the five of the last segment of the show and and it lands like it's You know how it seems really good
[SPEAKER_04]: You just made me wonder if that is a lasting thing with her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Until this moment, I thought, no, that was all part of an illusion.
[SPEAKER_04]: But is it, is the child really gone?
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess so, huh?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it really happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting because clearly what he's doing at David is not real.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: What he's doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: actually I don't know that he didn't take they didn't take David back to a Nazi prison because they could do that right there time travelers but it seemed like they were imposing I think they were posing for their lives like the Sydney from the past wasn't real right for sure she did act the way that you would think Sydney really would act so they could somehow pull for the right elements to make it seem real
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it's not clear whether that happened to Lenny, but now I kind of actually think well, I guess we'll see but yeah
[SPEAKER_05]: So because that's the other thing is like all weren't all most of the family members back or no.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe all the ones that we see die or turn to pile ashes are actually dead, but there's just a lot more hiding out in Nokes and crannies like switch was doing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because at the end of the episode, after he's vanquished the time demons and threatened the never come back or kill him all,
[SPEAKER_05]: The house wasn't empty, there were still those acolytes, you know, some of them around anyway, for him to, like, you know, have incontinence.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, and you're talking about Faruk and how badass he was, and, you know, second time through I was watching that to see, you know, how big of an impact he actually had.
[SPEAKER_04]: And really all said and done, he killed a couple of them, but it was David who solved the problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because when David showed his power, which I thought was a great like he actually spends half of the episode Walking towards the two of them and getting pushed back because you see that about halfway through and then the next time we see him again, he's still doing it
[SPEAKER_04]: But then he's like fuck this and he creates dupl gets of himself and mentioned something about being a god and then he displays his multiple arms out like Ganesh and then he just bursts one of them into flames and then tells the other one you better go tell your friends to knock it off or you're all dead and I think that's I think that's really what solved it and then we saw that Sid was about to be raped by one of them and the other one called them off
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I think David actually is the one who solved it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the power of the tin finger flip-off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can't, you can't, you can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, it harms man.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was interesting because there was a little bit of like doctor strange visuals like the time cycle reminded me of the door man who I'm here to bargain and then when I believe there's a scene maybe it's in the Infinity War where
[SPEAKER_05]: Dr. Strange manifests the to Ganesh arms and I was wondering if like there's a little bit Because like that's by far the trippiest of all the marvel cinematic universe insolence the Dr. Strange and I got to think that Noah Holley saw some of that and thought oh Yeah, that could probably good that palette that piece of the palette work well in Legion It did too worked for me Is it my turn?
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so minor two, just going over some of the mechanics of the time demons what they can do and why they're doing it all these temporal glitches.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we have time repeating where people just repeat themselves and it seems like after a few times they might sort of realize, hey, didn't we just say that?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's time skipping, which is interesting because it can just be for one person, like with, uh, with girl Carrie, and getting, she suddenly appeared with Sid and didn't know, and Sid's like, so you're saying there's a problem at the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Sid experienced it, but it skipped with Carrie and then we're like, well, did, did it happen for Carrie?
[SPEAKER_04]: And she just doesn't remember, you know, it's kind of weird, but I think best not to think too hard about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, what else?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's things aging fast.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's computer records across the globe corrupt with time code errors.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that sounds like it's global, which makes you wonder if shit like this happened to everyone all over the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if so, will there be any like fall out from that or will they just kind of ignore it?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's moments of time that actually get removed.
[SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like like male carry.
[SPEAKER_04]: The time when he got brainwashed is gone now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now he's no longer brainwashed.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was convenient.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's freezing time in a local ice space that if you go near touch it, you will freeze too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Which I thought was kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's the whole thing about the time demons.
[SPEAKER_04]: mimicking people from your life at different points in time or whatever the hell that was.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sid's younger self, David's mother, Lenny's unborn child.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I thought the whole thing with the time demon almost raping Sid was actually mimicking David with her.
[SPEAKER_04]: right a horrific moment from her life because in hindsight she realized that was a rate but in the moment she didn't know because she was not in a right mind so I thought in that was a really traumatic moment for her so I thought I mean that whole thing is so sick there they can make you really vulnerable because they're pulling from really intimate moments or you know talking to your younger self and then it's a trick
[SPEAKER_04]: so it was and they and I love that they just laugh about it like they're having they're so amused at all these things that to everyone else are really violating and horrific and it's just really twisted um yeah it's interesting because I didn't interpret that as them attempting to rape her I thought it was more akin of like they this was they were praying to eat her time
[SPEAKER_05]: like they're going to turn her into a pile of dust and consumer and consumer history and all that, but it's also
[SPEAKER_05]: It's an interesting concept to think that, yes, they, since we know they can see, obviously, everyone's passed and know exactly what to torment them with that they, you know, had seen all these upsetting sexual encounters that she's had and we're making her relive it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that's also part of what they do in the each or time too.
[SPEAKER_05]: They, you know, they sit through and all the painful morsels, they make you re-experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you, did that occur to you at all, Rima, that it was a re-experiencing of that moment?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you mean like with the time demons impersonating her sister or or not her sister by herself?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, the part where the one jumped on top of her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really like I don't understand what that what it was trying to to do to her.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just, because they had just shown, I think, a recent close to that moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think anyway, if I remember right, they showed the moment where David erased her memory, because she'd just been talking to her younger self.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was when she equated that with the guy turning her around in the shower, aka not a love move, but exerting power.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then they showed her in the same position that she was in lying on her back when David had sex with her and kind of pushed himself on her.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I thought that's why I thought that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there was that, but they also showed in season two, when David was manipulating, after he had manipulated her, and he was having sex with her, she was on top, showed it on the video camera.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of where I get stuck at, because I'm like, well, that for me, what I remember was not like the same position, but
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, it doesn't mean that that's not what they were trying to kind of imply there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Since that was kind of what was in her mind at the time, whenever, because I didn't really fully understand what the hell it was doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is this thing going to do to her is it going to eat the time or
[SPEAKER_04]: It just felt like a sexual violation to me, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: So then more stuff about the demons, are they malevolent?
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me think about that for a second.
[SPEAKER_04]: Calculating.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a good moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it seems pretty obvious that they are malevolent, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: They sure seem like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're laughing at everyone and fucking with everyone.
[SPEAKER_04]: and then shadow king said to think of them like termites that were underground but David let them out and Sid says time is collapsing and pretty soon none of us will be anything at all so it just sounds like they're doing you know damage to time and then why switch calls them predators and that they live in the space outside of time which I think is the same thing as what a shadow king call it
[SPEAKER_05]: time outside of time so I want to go back to the whole of their malevolent or not because it's because they're also referred to as predators and predators are not moral or a moral or immoral they just are and one of the things predator do is keep natural populations in check and
[SPEAKER_05]: since it seems pretty clear that they're being summoned because of abuse of the time stream I wonder if what you could just what what they're doing you actually could describe as beloved lint it could be that they are you know well here's a person who is abusing their power to control the time stream so we're going to prove it to keep the overall health of the you know space time continuum like i mean that's a that's a pull directly from my ass but but it's it's
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they're clearly intelligent.
[SPEAKER_05]: They clearly are intelligent, but whether they're doing this because they're just by nature evil or this is some kind of like natural law kind of check and balance thing is what I'm kind of interested to see.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think like tricksters to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they're giggling and you know animal predators are exactly what you said, but I don't think that's exclusive, I think, you know, you could consider a serial killer also a predator.
[SPEAKER_05]: Has it occurred to you that these guys might be like because the shadow king seems unusually familiar with these guys and time travel in general and the the the relative ease he had of like finding the time travel and talking to her.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if like this is like a smiggle Shalab type of situation right where he's he's essentially set a trap and full full knowing full well what he's doing just like you know
[SPEAKER_05]: Gollum is trying to lead Sam and Frodo through the shortcut, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just how abs that shortcut has a horrific demonic spider that lives in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if he knows exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's put this thing in motion knowing exactly what Dave would try to do, and this is kind of his in-game all along.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: It could be.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think it doesn't necessarily have to be that way, but it definitely could be.
[SPEAKER_04]: And man, I can't believe last week, I said, maybe they dropped the ball and weren't going to show these guys again.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had such a little faith.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think either way, I'm okay with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't need it to be that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: And even if let's say it's just that, you know, they use switches power too much and let these things out and they're just another bad guy and the shadow king realized, well, hey, if they destroy everything, then that's not gonna be very good for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm gonna help with this and then go back to my plan.
[SPEAKER_04]: It could be that, or it could be what you just said, where he's actually orchestrating the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, but we do know that her power caused it and she basically is a conduit to let these things out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's a little unbelievable that she didn't even mention them today.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, like, okay, in the future if there are time demons, tell me about the time demons and I'm like, yeah, you got a good point there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I thought she had.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't I don't know man.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember her ever saying anything about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why I thought they dropped the ball on it actually Well, so here's my theory is that like David has been using her because like here's this one point where she's protesting like look I can't do this all my teeth are loose or and he's like oh, you're gonna lose your teeth.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, yeah, but they're already all loose and he's like look don't make me force you yeah
[SPEAKER_05]: And then she's like, what?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I wonder, because we saw how we treated Carrie, it might just be that, like, he's like, oh, you're a time traveler, cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then he just started instantly co-opting and started, you know, and he's not interested in her explanations of her powers and its limitations.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's using her, like a switch, like a light switch.
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't give a shit about, you know, every time you click, every time you turn your lights on a home, Jason and Riemann, I don't know if you know this, but you're wearing your switch out.
[SPEAKER_05]: The things are rated for ten thousand a hundred thousand switches.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you care because when it breaks you does replace it and get a new one?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think I actually just backed into an interesting piece of analysis.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're welcome.
[SPEAKER_05]: Her name is Switch is kind of like that she is just like this.
[SPEAKER_05]: He sees her as just like tool or conduit and he's just going to use her to weigh you with a switch and not care about whether she's getting she's getting more.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but the weather or not, her teeth all fall out is different than whether or not these time demons escape and destroy all reality.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's it's sort of the similar because he's like, I don't care about the details, but you'd think she might go.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, this one's really important.
[SPEAKER_04]: At least try to mention it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I wonder, like how many times she's tried to explain to him the rules of time traveling.
[SPEAKER_05]: He says, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's open up the thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, like she seems kind of ambivalent about whether she should be following David and she decided to side with him over the shadow king because at least David's a man, whatever to hell that means.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now we see that she's sufficiently scared of David and I think maybe it's because the whole like you you're going to force me to what now that she kind of jumped on Carrie's offer to rescue her like a drowning person.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I actually shocked me that she just like put it instantly put aside a toothbrush and like yes, I'm coming with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and and if I was sort of wondering is she doing that because she has decided David's not the best one to be with or is it because maybe she thought Carrie could help with the whole time demon problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: But now I think the implication was she was ready to get away from him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the big thing at the end.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it looks like the time demon problem is solved.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we'll see, but it looks like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But now the problem is that Carrie took switch and David says war.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's where we are.
[SPEAKER_04]: but I still feel like we don't totally I feel like there's more revelations to come with switch why she was there in the first place and what's going on with her can I level us light criticism of the season yeah of course I feel like I feel like they jump the gun with the rage juice like
[SPEAKER_05]: you know they showed the blue turn in the red and that was supposed to be a thing that felt like a turning point and it really wasn't because we're back to the blue happy juice like if he had said war and then those tubes of turn red and the the you know his people started getting like I don't know I guess he he needed to maybe that's the that's the check-off's rage juice because he did that before he led that command of team with knives to go steal carry in the first place so maybe you're supposed to understand that like
[SPEAKER_05]: The next time the red juice flows it's going to be it's going to be for war not just for like a surgery strike, so maybe maybe I maybe I'll retract that slight criticism.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got four episodes to go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Check out the rage juice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Check out the title of the next week's episode by the way.
[SPEAKER_05]: Check out the giant psychic pig teeth.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, remember number one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh gosh, whenever one is simply war, because it looks like that's kind of where we're headed, either in the next episode or episodes to come whenever they decide.
[SPEAKER_00]: War more left.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a former left, so I feel like it's coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, when David comes back from his little mental prison, visiting who he thinks is his mom, but was just one of those time demons instead.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he finds that Carrie has left and has, I guess, rescued Switch and gone back to Division III.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've mentioned it before that I don't really know how much Switch was devoted to David, like is she helping him freely, was she under?
[SPEAKER_00]: like a similar type of control like like his other accolades.
[SPEAKER_00]: We did see how she kind of got in part like in the beginning of the episode when he puts his fingers to his temple and puts everyone kind of in their their drugs and their their yeah their bliss mode she was in there with him or with all of them as well so I'm but it seemed like she was pretty willing I don't know I don't you know I thought well it seemed like she's willing and she's not under so much control like she for some reason I thought was compelled to help him
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think because she spent so much time trying to persuade her or no, come on.
[SPEAKER_04]: That to me says that the idea is that at least up till now, he's not mentally forcing her, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: that's trick is why would he have to say that if she was under his control but you know anyway she she does end up leaving with carry and i'm guessing it's because she has seen the side of david where he's very much like not really caring about her and the the toll that it takes on her she saw in the last episode remember how like exhausted she was when they fell out of the door and they're in the hallway and she just you know he kept pushing her like we got to go back we got to go back to like no i can't you know she was like
[SPEAKER_00]: like physically exhausted or whatever it was that was happening to her having to be there for so long and keep going back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if she's just now kind of seeing you know him for who he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It may be the god complex.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of freaking her out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you've also we had Lenny in the beginning talking about leaving with her girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_00]: and with the baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she also seems to be becoming disenchanted with David and his plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, all she wants is a safe place for her family and she's kind of getting tired of David.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Jason you mentioned that earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: So David, you know, kind of snaps out of where he was at to see all of this kind of crumbling around him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now he's, I think, ready to take on division three and I think everyone should be a little bit worried.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, then everybody should like Linnie's right to be worried because David doesn't even care about his own mommy and so far is that she is as long as she protects him from that's the only thing she he really cares about because as his mom says like well if you have access to these powers stop this like bring back the dead dead do that and it's it's interesting because like it's it's kind of
[SPEAKER_05]: it's it's it's interesting this whole concept of being time travel and like you know you go back and you stop some great evil but like why would you ever stop there it's like okay you're gonna stop or war two but like sixty million people died war war one
[SPEAKER_05]: You want to go back and stop that.
[SPEAKER_05]: What about the civil war?
[SPEAKER_05]: What about the hundred years war?
[SPEAKER_05]: What about, you know, it's like the idea that the human wickedness isn't almost infinite quantity that you can't.
[SPEAKER_05]: I felt the same way a little bit about the Avengers movie, you know, that shoot.
[SPEAKER_05]: I already got yelled at for spoiling that last time.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the idea of like any time you use time travel to un to write a certain wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's literally billions of dead being like, uh, what about me, dude?
[SPEAKER_05]: Am I not, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not important enough to bring back.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought those are, are interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it just shows that David doesn't really even care about his own mother.
[SPEAKER_05]: All she is to him is, you know, the vessel to gave him life and the field to protect him.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and he doesn't care about his own mother.
[SPEAKER_05]: to save her from any kind of trauma or pain.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why would he do that for Lini?
[SPEAKER_05]: Why would he do that for Switch?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would he do that for Switch?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, my turn.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's see where should I go.
[SPEAKER_04]: I liked the whole sequence with Sid and her younger self.
[SPEAKER_04]: For one thing, I've kind of been missing Rachel Keller this season because last season was all about the romance of Rachel and David and
[SPEAKER_04]: you know even before it just she her character hasn't gotten as much to do lately so it was nice to see the scene even though it it deepened and made us understand her a little bit more but it did also feel kind of like a repeat but still I like the idea of her meeting her younger self you know she we know that she had kind of a rough childhood because of her power and everything and
[SPEAKER_04]: So it would make sense, like if I saw my younger self, I would want to do what she did, which is try to give her some perspective, you know, that it's come with age, some perspective and wisdom.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was nice to see her do that, even though it turned out to be all based on nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it wasn't real as far as we could tell.
[SPEAKER_04]: And self-awareness, you know, give her some self-awareness that comes with getting a little bit older.
[SPEAKER_04]: Young Sid keeps kind of gravitating towards well we should just go to a desert island we should just be alone but older Sid is like yeah well it's you know even though I loved and it didn't turn out well it was worth it and I don't want to give up so she's trying to instill some positivity and hope there and That when Sid is asking when young Sid is asking it doesn't get better do we get married?
[SPEAKER_04]: I almost wondered if at that point it was getting to some level and it's like kind of poking at her.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: It does seem like the kind of thing the younger younger version would ask, but it also is the kind of thing time demons would ask just to get at somebody.
[SPEAKER_04]: So hard to tell there, but we get more perspective on Sid's experience, the whole thing about how when she uses her power, she feels like she disappears and then when she comes back to her body, there's a funny smell there and just this whole sense of violation, which is sort of ironic because as she's saying that she's also being violated because the circumstances aren't what she thinks they are.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then this whole time that they're talking, we already saw at least for the second half of it, we already knew that David had talked to his, what he thought was his mother, but that wasn't real.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I love how that was revealed.
[SPEAKER_04]: He knew because Gabrielle's smile turned
[SPEAKER_04]: demonic almost, you know, exaggerated.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that is creepy to me when somebody smiles like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's when he said, no, lies.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then we go back to older Sid and younger Sid.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're having this really intimate, sweet conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, I guess I was still thinking or hoping that it was real.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then it was revealed that it wasn't during this hug, which is really sick, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: At least that's what I got younger Sid started holding on way too tight.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like what the hell's going on here?
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was a really creepy moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean this whole episode I feel like it was the scariest creepiest episode of Legion up until now with these time demons reaching through screens and
[SPEAKER_04]: All the things Rima that you already said about them, they just found some good ways of seriously making it creepy, which I think is really impressive.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, the whole thing about tricking someone into these intimate situations and then revealing that note was a demon there.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was probably the creepiest thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, do we all, we're all through our points right time for any notes?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do I skip anybody?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did we get everyone's number one?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_05]: Go for it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to talk about the sequence, the time between time sequence because it's interesting you asked me before we started recording a podcast, whether my co-host, my regular co-host gym is keeping up with Legion.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's funny because I asked him the same thing this morning because I thought this is the episode if you had that might have broken him because he has a very low tolerance for what he refers to as like David Lynch Bullshit.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which is just like kind of like being an author for the sake of author or weird for the sake of weird not you know I like David Lynch Bullshit because I don't think it's I don't think it's that of all I think he's trying to
[SPEAKER_05]: evoke a particular feeling like what it's like to be stuck in a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's dream-wout of you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this was a perfect example of that the way you, you know, how do you show the time between time you do it and kind of like the stop motion with this like weird, you know, kind of old-timey CPS director.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and you do like almost like silent movie type title cards and I just thought
[SPEAKER_05]: it was so weird and such a another great way to visualize a space that's not real like the astral plane but it looks completely distinct and different from the things we've seen the astral plane before so you know in a show that's like you so many different visual metaphors to express so many different levels of unreality the fact that they had one more tool in the toolbox I thought was incredible and that sequence was uh... honestly at some of the best action they've
[SPEAKER_05]: They've shot and this show because it was all implied.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was all kind of in your imagination.
[SPEAKER_05]: They'd have showed you something like the shadow king draw on a sword out of his mouth and you know him kind of stop motioning slice him a half and it's just really really cool and it's the reason I I love this love the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the whole sequence was so great and it reminded me a lot of that the scene with Lenny in season one.
[SPEAKER_00]: where she's like fully taken over by the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like in black and white and it's kind of like a silent film and it shows like the dialogue on the cards on the screen and they're talking, but you can't hear them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I reminded me a lot of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was different clearly, but you know, just kind of how they use this visual to kind of explain what's happening in the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just brilliant.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they called it the time between time and shadow king said that time demon should have no advantage there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess the idea behind that was everybody's blippy here.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the time demons are like that in our dimension, but in this dimension we all have that I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting that you thought you mentioned the blipping, the time demons were blipping, they were kind of blipping in this time between time and then like future Sid was blipping to some degree in season two.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys remember that much, future Sid?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, yeah, kind of like a digital or like a skipping record almost or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it wasn't as as I don't think is like broken.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it but she was you could definitely kind of tell a difference how she got kind of glitchy and a little blippy when she was like talking either with David or for Rook.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's like they found the way to extend the existing visual metaphor of like, you know, time and the normal flow of time being interrupted or mess with.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I liked in that scene, wasn't there?
[SPEAKER_04]: Somebody threw something.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was it one of the time demons?
[SPEAKER_04]: And it almost hit Clark and he moved to the side and opened his mouth.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was Carrie through his spear at, and the time they've been dodged it, and he just barely, uh, he was not blind enough to hear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when, when, for Rook is like eating something, they're like sitting around this campfire, something, and he's eating something, and he offers it to Clark, and he just kind of waves his hand like, no, no, no, no, things.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like,
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that all sequence.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's get on to notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rima, got you notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a few notes already mentioned the giant toothbrush.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love those sometimes ridiculous things that they put in here and it's somehow for the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just makes sense like last season with the big giant bathtub plug.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in the drain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they had the giant toothbrush that switch had.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you guys catch the shield scene?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I was like wait, what what's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was just absolutely brilliant to to put in there
[SPEAKER_04]: especially because that is FX's first big breakout original programming hit back in the two thousands and so and I felt like that was messing like the time demons are and I still maintain whether they're under shadow kings controller not they just seem all-evilent to me and they're messing with all the characters in this episode and that was them messing with us because partway through you hear them laughing
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's like it's also DVR bait as I discovered because I'm like what the hell?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I thought you're fast forward.
[SPEAKER_05]: I got to rewind.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, that is the start of the scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: We talk about the meta of it though because that's the that's the Vic Mackie introduce himself as a different kind of cop.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's not a good cop.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's not a bad cop.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if this is some kind of hint of, you know, we're talking about David being irredemable.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's broadly true, but we also know that the Shadow King is a millennial old psychic demon himself and will happily go set himself to bending himself to take over the world in David's absence.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if you're supposed to understand that like David is kind of a Vic Mackie and
[SPEAKER_05]: He... Well, I'd be able to redeem himself, nor save himself, but it might be something like a pot of like like he takes out the shadow king with himself.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like he dies in anti-hero.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I could see that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because sometimes you need a monster to take out something else monstrous.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, like that's the whole idea of the shield, you know, that particular unit in the LA is that they're trying to...
[SPEAKER_05]: Go, go against gang violence in the drug trade, trafficking, and all this stuff, and you got to play outside the world.
[SPEAKER_05]: Go into the dark places.
[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if they're trying to say that on a metal level about David and hint for his future.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, this reminds me just that little segment.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was this game on the Nintendo GameCube called Eternal Darkness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did either of you play that?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was great because you're going on this kind of Indiana Jones-like quest and you go into these dark tombs, but the goolees and monsters there drive you insane.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if your sanity meter goes down too low, then weird things start to happen like the screen will get fuzzy and then it'll say that your controller's disconnected or, you know, it'll show this part of TV show or something and you're like, what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's really effective.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that game.
[SPEAKER_04]: Never seen anything like it before or since.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, what else do you want?
[SPEAKER_00]: Just wanted to kind of, while you were talking about that scene with Sid, I really liked how we got a little bit of a deeper dive into her describing her powers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we've seen that too much since like season one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when she was talking about the exchange of bodies, like when she does switch bodies with someone else, the way that she says it, she's describing it like a sexual assault, which I thought was interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that could be
[SPEAKER_00]: on her and maybe even that other person that she switches with, because she says people get too close, they touch you and you disappear and then they're inside in your belly and in your head.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you get back, there's a smell, someone else's smell is inside your nose and you check out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You tell people it's fine, I don't own my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: You say my power is like a vacation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get to be a tourist and someone else's life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who cares if every time I come home, I feel dirty.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought that was just kind of heartbreaking to kind of see how she describes it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like that we also got, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess because this time demon was representing her younger self, I still felt like we got a little bit of perspective from the young SIDS view of that interaction that happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it was actually real too.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, not the really young SIDS, but somehow they pulled from... Right for her memories.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, I thought that was interesting because we had adult SIDS.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, description and what happened and from her perspective, you know, and then, you know, we got to see that whole sequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: But hearing it from young Sid and how she was just looking for a connection with someone and ended up experiencing the loss of her virginity and, you know, of, you know, kind of an aggressive kind of way.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have, so the tell, the story we heard last year was that Sid, you know, heard her stepdad or her mom's boyfriend into shower and switched bodies of their mom and then entered the shower to have sex with, to have sex with the boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_05]: and then her power switched back in the middle and her mom confronted them and you know all hell broke loose.
[SPEAKER_05]: The way she described it this way is like maybe that because that all sounded kind of consensual weird but like consensual from Sid's standpoint but the way her shot the her young self explained it and maybe wonder if what it actually happened is she switched back in her body
[SPEAKER_04]: this the the the boyfriend realized it and then turned her around and continued you know the the sexual encounters go back and watch but i'm pretty sure when they were in the shower and he got sexually aroused by her and i think it back that i remember thinking he sent something different about her and that turned him on i think he turned her around right then
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, yeah, I think it was a watch.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I think as soon as the body shifted, you heard him go, what the hell?
[SPEAKER_04]: He was shocked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the way that she told it was pretty accurate as far as right when it, when it, when it, when it began, he turns her around and I guess, puts her face in the glass.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't think it was about him forcing himself on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was just simply about that act of not being face to face with her and she thought that was weird and didn't feel good or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I think that she doesn't have any existing framework for what to expect or what is really going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: She thinks I think it's probably going to be more of a love-making and special and intimate and instead it kind of turns into this aggressive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is fine because if you've got two adults who are having sex and her mom seemed to enjoy men
[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed, you know, I feel like she's probably very, you know, a very sexual person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And seriously, when you're in the shower anyway, you don't need face to face as like impossible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, you have to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of practical.
[SPEAKER_00]: Offline, baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like on the record.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, it's kind of practical anyway, but she doesn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't have an existing framework too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they, I mean, it was in real life.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is you right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like this whole thing about Sid describing her power is in the language of sexual assault and violation.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you realize that Sid or whole life has just had all these experiences where it feels dirty and like violation.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so the thing with David is just another one in a string of those.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's, you know, probably
[SPEAKER_04]: Worse in a lot of ways, but it's she's probably sensitive to it, you know, like I don't want to feel like that
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's why she turned on him really quick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of Hall of Her, you know, what she's been through in that traumatic event.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why she's so keen to keep people away from her and to, you know, as far as touching and stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: She feels violated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when she experienced that with David, she was quick, you know, to, to kind of turn on him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so you actually imparted it better than I did in my point, but that's that's why I like this segment probably at least one of the reasons why I really liked is it just gave you more of a sense of why in season one when you first meet Sid she just does not want to fucking be touched Yeah, not just in the power it's because of this feeling of of being violated
[SPEAKER_04]: absolutely so the only other note that I had was I think it was mentioned earlier was when said said that she said it was worth falling in love with David even after all the bad that was happened I like tearing that that there was still some positivity there yeah that's was remarkable even after all this she still wants to try yeah I mean she she's she's appreciating what was good about what happened with her David and she doesn't want to give up on the possibility that she could have intimacy again
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of all of us.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, as the older you get, the more you'll have some shitty experiences and want to close yourself off and you have to talk yourself into opening up again.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it'd be the opposite though, too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like the older you get, the more experience you get with loss and pain, the more it's like, you get a fate.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, this is one way I can go.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you have love and support and access to decent mental health resources, but like you can also get an increasing confidence in like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't have to be as guarded with my heart and my feelings because I know I can experience pain and loss and I can hurt and I can also heal and get stronger and get better that way too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for reminding me of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mind of myself, brother.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, any notes?
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, three words.
[SPEAKER_05]: Lunar agriculture colonies.
[SPEAKER_05]: They are real.
[SPEAKER_05]: They exist in patolami apparently is overseeing the.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to see these lunar agriculture colonies that are being overseen by this guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's just true.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, you know, what was interesting that they made a point to show the demons like eating them almost like relish like it's like, you know, you can't stop at just one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, any ideas, what's these, is there any, is this just, um, was there any there there?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is there like they're trying to imply us to imply something?
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I actually have not thought about them that much, but right now just thinking about it, it just seems like another sort of metaphorical symbol of
[SPEAKER_04]: him being full of himself.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just seem like pointedly that was the end result of whatever manufacturing process he was doing or like that was the end product being built from all of this you know love bombing and the fact that it was destroyed utterly and now he's got the you know that he's declared war I wonder I don't know like you know that everything is so rich and the visual storytelling I just conditioned by Holly he rings the bell
[SPEAKER_05]: What's up with them?
[SPEAKER_05]: Lunchboxes and what does it mean in the demons ate them?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I've taken that deep of a dive into them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've noticed them only long enough to know that I want one.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a lot of tiesing.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what lunchboxes represent to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's to the point where something that used to be genuinely special becomes commoditized and it's still cool and you want one, but it's a little bit further along in the life cycle of something.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah we should keep an eye on that.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, that's all that's all the points I had.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I just had a couple.
[SPEAKER_04]: When Carrie female Carrie was like, remember when we used to have fun and put on him, he's like, I remember details facts.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just thought, man, he's worse than brand.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I noticed male Carrie calls him Sir.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it makes it feel like he's in charge now, which is a shift in the hierarchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: because he seems like he's kind of taking the place of genophic yummy, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was kind of the boss or head of division three, I thought so.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe he's like, because he comes from the main frame or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he is the main frame, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he is the main frame.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: I noticed female Carrie seems to be taking male Carrie's disappearance and stride.
[SPEAKER_04]: She misses him, but she's not flipping out like she would have in season one.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I guess I don't know if it's still reversed where he goes into her versus the opposite now, but it feels to me like now they're actually just two separate people.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so she's gotten time to get used to being without him.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's possible.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's also possible that that particular actor has a limited range and is not different, or is that emoting, whatever she's supposed to be, emoting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, I guess so.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the fact is that, you know, in season one,
[SPEAKER_04]: when they were in the mental asylum that Shadow King kind of dragged all their minds into it and erased their memories.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they thought they were all mental patients and she was really attached to him there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, throughout the series, she, it's been clear that they're like, especially when they did switch places, she had a hard time adjusting to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now she's just sort of like, I'm bored.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, back its time for some news.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so we have one item this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is from the rap.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an interview with Noah Holly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought this was kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you notice coming back from a commercial break on Monday's Legion, which randomly pivoted to a scene from the former FX series, which sees Mackie walk into his boss's office with the pre-wide screen era aspect ratio with letterbox on the sides.
[SPEAKER_00]: before abruptly going back to Legion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Show Renner no Holly explained that since the episode messes with time, with multiple sudden time loops in time jumps he wanted to give the audience the same feeling as the character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Says I think it's really interesting to see how the characters are dealing with time travel, but I also wanted to give the audience the experience of time travel.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we go back to the show, it's literally like you've traveled through time in a way that makes it much more visceral.
[SPEAKER_00]: As Switch describes the time demons, these beings exist outside in the space outside of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And once they get let in, they are literally eating time.
[SPEAKER_00]: This causes time to speed up, loop around, and in some cases erase things from existence.
[SPEAKER_00]: In one heartbreaking example, Lenny experiences the entire lifespan of her daughter in a matter of minutes while Lenny doesn't age.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whenever you tell a time travel store there's always consequences and obviously those consequences for us are a bit more literal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Holly continued.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's an idea that something is protecting the time stream and if everything is carefully balanced and if you mess up the balance you start to let things out that shouldn't be let out.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: I almost like implies that like, uh, you were not just messing with us, but the fact that we momentarily went back in time to where the shield was airing.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was dinner definition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love I love stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything meta.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was super cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just brilliant.
[SPEAKER_00]: I worship at the altar of Noah Holly.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's move on to mental notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have one email.
[SPEAKER_04]: Aaron.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is from Jamie Henry and they say this episode gave me some unexpected and highly enjoyable pairings and groupings.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cary and switch.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cary Clark and for Rook, Sid and Passed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sid talking with her past self was beautiful, who hasn't wasted, or, sorry, who hasn't wanted the opportunity to talk to the younger self with all the experience they have now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Those were some of my favorite scenes until they weren't.
[SPEAKER_05]: Way to retraumatize Sid and the rest of us know a holly.
[SPEAKER_05]: He has certainly been delivering the nightmare a few of the season.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think anything could be more disturbing to me than a no-face baby last week, but the time-eaters, trippy close.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why did they have to have teeth?
[SPEAKER_05]: There's nothing like this show on TV right now and I love it and the ride it takes me on Nightmares and all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Talk to you guys next week.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, what's one thing that you would tell your your teenage self?
[SPEAKER_05]: me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anybody.
[SPEAKER_05]: One day you will be paid to watch Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_05]: Congratulations.
[SPEAKER_05]: So hang in there kid.
[SPEAKER_04]: The dream is coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all going to pay off being a nerd is worth it.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, that is our show episode twenty three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening everyone.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're halfway through the final season for more episodes and that's gonna be it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe we're almost there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's been great too.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a great season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't you guys think?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love the feel.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love it when you watch in the last season of a show and you just know they're just like not leaving anything in any ammunition in the can.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all getting expensive.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: That would be a last season of a couple other shows I can think of like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email or send a voice message to us at Legion at podcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find us on the web at facebook.com slash Legion pod.
[SPEAKER_05]: And be sure to check out our other shows at baldloved.com and podcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoo!
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's our show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's our show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.