[SPEAKER_05]: Baby me.
[SPEAKER_05]: So slow.
[SPEAKER_05]: So happy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Draw me good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you feel love?
[SPEAKER_05]: So scary, it's gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Rima.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Aron.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is the Legion podcast episode, twenty two.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's just jump right in this week.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's our top three highlights for season three episode three chapter twenty two.
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you guys think in general, Rima, would you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: I really liked it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought there were some really great moments, some great cinematography, great use of music.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I liked it, but it left me with a little bit of a sad feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was sad, not in a terrible way, but, you know, just kind of a melancholy kind of a way, but I thought it was, you know, interesting to kind of go back and see some roots that we've kind of been waiting for, you know, for some time to see David's parents and their story.
[SPEAKER_03]: Get some of them fleshed out, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I really enjoy this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that sadness.
[SPEAKER_03]: We might have to get used to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Although I'm sort of wondering if they're hinting that there's a possibility there could be some kind of a redemptive or happier ending.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know after a sexual assault, you'd have to do a really deaf job of bringing it around to that to make everybody happy with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, Aeron, which I think
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was pretty good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was excellent.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was a surprise that they took a whole hour to kind of take a detour and blow up this one small part of the plot.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, David going back in time to try to fix his past.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also like, I forgot that, you know, Disney essentially owns everything now and there's no rights problems because I remember it being an issue about, you know, there were some clear lines about what Legion could and could not trade on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was surprised to see, like, it kind of shocked me to see, like, profess, like the sea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Charles named and putting a cerebral hat on and all that like I thought it was surprising but I thought it was really good and the way they told it like kind of fractured not a time fits both the kind of fractured mentality and emotional space at the show takes and also the fact that they're literally fracturing time in this season as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think to Gabrielle was the point of view character for a lot of the episode and she's Probably the most mentally unstable or at least she seemed pretty mentally unstable to me so it kind of fit in with that like she wasn't even sure what was real and when and where she was
[SPEAKER_03]: But as far as like the rights, I'm a little confused on all that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, X-Men has been a Fox property and, you know, before this whole Disney merger, we wondered if Legion was supposed to fit into the X-Men universe and if they would try to get Patrick Stewart to do a pro bono appearance or something, you know, or James McAvoy or however you say his name.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I get the feeling, I don't know if this whole season was planned after the merger with Disney, but it seems like Disney's just gonna ignore all the X-Men movies that have come out before and probably just restart everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe that gave no a highly licensed to just be like, well, I don't need to adhere to any continuity, like just do whatever I want.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I read an article.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was didn't have geek that asserted that that's essentially what happened that Fox was kind of like, hey, we don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to bring Patrick Stewart or Charles McEvoy on here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't want another actor portraying it and mutting this wanders.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we've still got to bring this, you know, like, they had a story they wanted to tell with the X bin and they didn't want this to interfere with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that essentially the merger and acquisitions made that to where, you know, obviously, Fox kind of brought their X bin
[SPEAKER_02]: series to close the summer with dark Phoenix, which you know, I had mixed feelings about, but like did that kind of pave the way for, um, no a holiday to be a little bit more bolder about, you know, taking specific parts of the canon and not being so restricted to just play.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's teeny tiny little Legion space.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's off for the best.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I got I got complicated feelings about the mouse, uh, own in the whole planet.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it can like grease the skids of some comic books here and there, then I guess it's not the worst thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this could also be seen as like the last gas, but of creativity before we get the new stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It could be.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_03]: Rima, what's your number three?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my number three, I'm going to start off with just how I liked how this episode kind of explored and we're all three parents.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like we'd probably all relate to that in some way and most parents probably can about how, you know, how you worry about your kids and the things that you do or say your actions might shape your children.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you see Gabrielle, you see Xavier, you know, standing over the crib and looking down on young David.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they're expressing their concerns about David turning out like Xavier and Gabrielle worries that he might be like her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like that they're trying to do their best to kind of imprint on David, all of their best qualities that they want him to have, even for Rook in his own
[SPEAKER_01]: Weird way does it when he finally takes his consciousness and goes into David, baby David.
[SPEAKER_01]: We see him like rocking baby David on his knee and he calls him his, you know, my sweet boy, the adult David talks to his baby self kind of offering his protection and you know, they'll watch over him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that it was just kind of interesting to see how we see it here, of course, a little bit different talking superheroes and powers and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But to kind of see that come down to be like a very normal thing, how all parents kind of worry about how their children will turn out and like their own
[SPEAKER_01]: weird eccentricities or if they are dealing with maybe mental illness that they're worried about passing on or something like that and worried about how their kids are going to turn out and truthfully it looks like he kind of ends up like both of them yeah power Charles is worried he'll pass on the telepathy and get reels worried she'll pass on her mental instability and I'm like oops surprise double inheritance
[SPEAKER_01]: He got both.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he got some tragedy from his mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got the power like his dad, but he lacks that I think that mental strength that Xavier was able to like ground himself a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then part of that might be Shadow King's fault.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you stabilize him as whole life?
[SPEAKER_01]: True.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't help.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just I liked all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: When Shadow King said, I think he said, you're beautiful, my beautiful boy or something like that, just like the mom was saying, I just interpreted that as beautiful like because you're going to give me all this power, more of a narcissistic kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know, it's interesting because it seems like Furuk has sort of suggested a couple of times that he was fatherly.
[SPEAKER_02]: figure for game I was I was trying to remember it was last season's finale where he had that speech about you know I was there from beginning bouncing you on my knee yeah and yeah and I think like yeah I mean it's those I think those positions aren't inconsistent like you definitely there are definitely narcissistic parents out there and I think that this episode just goes further to show that like that's not all him lying about the paternal
[SPEAKER_02]: relationship he sees him having with David, but he's just a very evil person.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's an evil parent.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also like that, you know, where Gabrielle was wondering, when will you learn this world is an ugly place?
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is interesting because I think there's two lessons a child needs to learn to become an adult.
[SPEAKER_02]: One that yes the world is is ugly and cruel, but you can't that's not the final lesson the other final lesson is the world despite all that is also You know beautiful and full of light and hope and love and you are individual decisions impact that so I think it's interesting to see You know Charles was so absent from the early goings of you know David's you know life because he was off chasing this for Rukai and then for Ruk moves in and he's got his kind of mutt I
[SPEAKER_03]: you start to see like all the little pieces that kind of went into David's life and also I love the flashbacks to things we saw in season one like you know teenage David destroying a cop car and him freaking out in the kitchen juxtaposed with her saying you know what will you be what will you do like the mother's hope it makes me you think about your own kids right like oh my god what's what cop cars will they be exploding hopefully not
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's face it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The numbers are not going to be zero, Jason.
[SPEAKER_03]: Out of the three of us, chances are good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Aaron went to your number three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really enjoyed seeing actors that I've only seen play really weird assholes before play compelling characters.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking about Stephanie Cornelius and who is most famous as Joanna Wellick, which say you will.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a very bizarre at the least character from Mr. Robot and then Harry Lloyd who of course is Vassirius, the
[SPEAKER_02]: short-lived brother of one Daenerys Targaryen and Game of Thrones and I always I remember because you know we cover Mr. Robot and I remember saying that like I like a lot of what she's doing I just think this material is kind of weird and the character is kind of weird and I'd love to see what she can do with like decent material and I thought this is my answer like she was fantastic yeah it goes about saying that these are both very attractive people
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, seeing them play non-weared asshole characters, like, you know, Harry Lloyd effortlessly kind of stepped into that heroic nobility of Charles Xavier.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought Stephanie was very compelling as this kind of, you know, wounded person from the war mentally.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it set up such and so many nice parallels for, you know, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the difference between Charles mentally messing with Gabrielle to help her over her war trauma and David mentally messing with Sid to get her over possible manipulation of the shadow king?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying they're the same obviously in what follows.
[SPEAKER_02]: is a whole different conversation too.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can kind of see where that was a point where he was kind of like his father, and he was a little too, and it went wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he didn't have the experience of being into trenches and telling people to kill themselves and seeing how bad this could be to draw, I guess, you know, strength from.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I keep on calling Professor X. It seems like Charles is more appropriate from what we saw anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll call him Charles.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he says to Gabrielle, you know, she, I'd like how she kind of called him on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: She just said, you know, about the whole Apple tomato thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you see that when you were in my mind?
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was the first that it had been acknowledged.
[SPEAKER_03]: and she wasn't that's just good writing where that's how you bring it up you know and then he takes that as an impetus to explain himself and he says I don't pry when I'm in there I just I try to help and the way he says it is way of being it seems really comforting and sincere and you're like okay but
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like what do you mean you don't pry you you fat I mean we heard war noises in there So he learned something about her past that's prying what is prying if not going in someone's mind and learning something about like their deepest darkest moments in life And he just says I just tried to help so it did feel to me like yeah, he kind of has that rationalization like David has
[SPEAKER_02]: And you gotta trust him because like, you know, we see just none of us are telepaths, or if they are, please, please write us in because we'd like to hear your story.
[SPEAKER_02]: But none of us are telepaths.
[SPEAKER_03]: But just to determine, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's with this email stuff?
[SPEAKER_02]: Get just, just get on three row.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: We see in real life when you try to help people the difference between like you can you can offer to same kind of friendly gentle support of help to three different people and one person will grab onto like a life-reserver one person will just be like hey thanks for helping the other person be like mind your fucking business to like one person's I'm I'm I'm not prime.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just helping the other person's like deeply prying into the personal so and the fact that that you know obviously Charles is the only the sole arbiter of
[SPEAKER_03]: of the correctness of that decision because he's doing it and he's the only mutant and it is it is interesting I think it's intentional that you're supposed to like draw parallels between that that and what they did yeah and even I mean with David you know at the way everything's ended up I go back and question how much was he mentally pushing said to fall for him even maybe unconsciously
[SPEAKER_03]: And we can see in this episode that Charles Xavier just can snap his fingers in all of a sudden they're heroes and they're leaving the mental hospital and to a pause.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, well, I hope that he has really fine control over his powers and he's completely aware of what he's doing and he's not just sort of subconsciously pushing things in his direction with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I don't think he is, but it's a question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen season one of Jessica Jones on Netflix?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like that's always been interesting about Charles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that there's not any difference between him and David Tinnett's kind of purple man?
[SPEAKER_02]: You see that remote care?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So with that spoiling, the arch villain of season one is a man who can make any, you can make, you do whatever you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got like super hypnotism.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he uses it to abuse people.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's really no difference between him and Charles other than their basic moral framework, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Charles can be a terrifying person.
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of the best X-Men
[SPEAKER_02]: stories touch on the edge of like what Charles could do if he just was uncorrect.
[SPEAKER_02]: And properly motivated.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I again, like all these kind of like moral ambiguities and analysis and meditations or some of the things I like about Legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this was a great episode for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'll go into my number three, which is Gabrielle and Charles relationship and parallels to Sid and David.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the comics, I was surprised to see Professor X as a patient in a mental hospital and that's one area where Holly, just with his new freedom to not adhere to continuity, when against it I think because
[SPEAKER_03]: And Wikipedia says Charles Xavier met Gabrielle Holler while he was working in an Israeli psychiatric facility where she was one of his patients.
[SPEAKER_03]: Xavier was secretly using a psychic power to ease the pain of Holocaust survivors institutionalized there.
[SPEAKER_03]: The two had an affair that resulted in the birth of their son David.
[SPEAKER_03]: Xavier was initially unaware of this as Gabrielle never told him she was pregnant.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I've read that, I was like, oh, was he actually working there and just disguising himself as a patient?
[SPEAKER_03]: But no, he was a patient and I think that, you know, with his PTSD, he probably seemed like he admitted himself and he was there willingly and he wanted help.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then when he decided, he felt good and it was time to leave, he just left.
[SPEAKER_03]: and and that whole thing yeah it was very much a parallel to David meeting Sid right down to them playing Rolling Stones uh she's like a rainbow yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: That was from agencies in one and it was sweet I mean as much as I've been sort of questioning whether it's all above board I think this show really knows how to do romance well and Charles spotting her in her chair and immediately perks up and he's attracted and goes over and tries to help her and I liked when she finally did wake up
[SPEAKER_03]: it seemed to me like she had been aware that whole time but just still and that she actually had come to know him and already trust him and she said she likes a hide which was super cute and then the whole drawing her the tomato apple and playing chess and sharing cherry pie which is another callback to the citizen David yeah and just quickly they can make you believe that this couple fell in love before you know if they're dancing and kissing and everything
[SPEAKER_03]: and then she tells me about her dream of living together far away and he's like, all right, let's do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really liked that whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It kind of, you know, was light and happy and fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was moved also by David being there in later scenes going, oh, wow, this is how they met in a mental hospital.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess it just runs in the family, but he was kind of, you know, just,
[SPEAKER_03]: In awe of the whole thing, I guess, and I like that too, because even though he's on a mission, he's still affected as anyone would be, like, wow, I'm watching my parents meet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then one other parallel is, I noticed this when Charles finds for Rook and goes off to, or he learns about for Rook and then goes off to find him, and Gabrielle really doesn't want him to leave, and that reminded me of Sid not wanting David to leave, and he gives her that David compass later on.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just like that they chose to do this as a parallel with with David in a lot of different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Agreed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, be mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my number two is actually pretty much all of your points that you just made in your number three.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was how David and Sid's life mirrored his parents.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their story through meeting in the middle hospital, their David shared love of cherry pie.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was one thing, I'll comment that I didn't hear you bring up was Gabrielle says the same thing to Charles that Sid says to David and season two when the time comes, proved me wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, I didn't catch that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought, yeah, because I love that line so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved it in season two and said, and then when Gabrielle says it again to Charles in this episode, it was just another great callback.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think definitely appropriate for the moment, but I think you covered all of my same points.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I won't repeat any of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I loved all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just fun to see that story kind of retold in how history kind of repeats itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So super fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: When part we don't know is the end of the story because where it ended with, well, with Sid and David, it's in a horrible place where she's like killing him multiple times.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they asked to go back in time and erase it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: And with Charles and Gabrielle.
[SPEAKER_03]: The last thing we saw was her fainting because she saw adult David and it freaked her out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mommy!
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, um, and then Professor X was trying to wake her up and he, you could see him put his fingers to his temple and try to use his telepathy and he couldn't even do it that way and he's very powerful so it made me wonder if she's just Komotos now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like she slipped back into her catatonia that she was in before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before she came out of it or whether she was aware and came out of her own or whether Charles, I'm not sure I'm super clear on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he helped her come out of that, or she became aware of her own, but I think that she slipped right back in and maybe she's unreachable at this point due to the trauma that she suffered while he was gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: To me, I stayed that way for her whole life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I hope we find out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to see you know more of that story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that leads me because like so like if she's in a coma, what what happens to David, you know, it is this journal where we we left at the uncomfortable because in the comics as you said, Gabrielle doesn't really tell him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but he knows he's a father.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this he just abandoned David.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's there's a lot of those questions echoing around David's own head.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when he's watching them together, it's like, you know, why?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you guys get rid of me?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you not love me?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what was wrong with me?
[SPEAKER_01]: That was hard for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was wrong with me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and you know, back in chalkboard scene in season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: He had the story kind of wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things he thought was that they gave that Professor X battled the shadow king and the shadow king's spirit or essence became disembodied.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they were afraid that shadow king would find David so they hid him away with somebody else.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we see here that they haven't even, he's not adopted or anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Shadow King already entered him while he's still under the care of Professor X and Gabrielle.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we don't know how he leaves Professor X. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's literally true though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, when Professor X comes back to Gabrielle, he has just defeated the Shadow King, is what I'm guessing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: An exiled his mind from his body, and that's why.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the surprise is that the Shadow King was able to come that quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right because he can travel on the astral plane and Charles has his like take a physical plane to get home.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so imagine like the end of Star Wars or Obi-Wan's like, you know, hiding Luke on Tattoine, but Luke's already possessed with the dark side.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the things where I could see this literally taking place.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is, which is going to lead to my next point, if we're ready to go there, or this whole concept of time travel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every time it comes up, it can get messy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there is an implication that perhaps David himself caused the shadow king to enter him and become Legion.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's how it always was because he was always there kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or like if if maybe he's already altered the timeline that like maybe this was a kind of cat and mouse game that was played for another year or so and before to us so it's like it's not clear to me whether he himself has affected the timeline just by trying to mess around with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing I would say yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, here's the thing is when he says mommy, and she faints, then they seem pretty distracted, Charles and Volgabri, he's catatonic, and he's trying to wake her up, and he says, I got rid of the thing, so he's more focused on having gotten rid of David than doesn't seem to sense the shadow king, and the shadows king seems to take advantage of the chaos of that situation and enter David, baby David.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think David thinks, or I think Charles thinks David is the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but he's the my point is that there's a big black cloud above the version.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's gone But but What and thing that sort of throws me is we saw earlier before Charles got home and mom was watching TV and
[SPEAKER_03]: and David's like cry louder and then he put a shield over the baby and so the smoke couldn't get in for a second which gave her enough time to get over there so it seems to me like if he wasn't there for that then it would have entered the baby then
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it does.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's an interesting conversation because there's a lot of interpretive stuff you got to do in this episode because there's a lot of like half heard conversations between Switch and David where she's like, just use your powers and he's like, can I use my powers?
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously he can.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: He might have, but I, I, who knows how much like, whether because he's, he's trying to contact Gabrielle, his mom, his mommy throughout the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like that could be harming her mental health, the where she has and he's kind of lambses that would leave Dave Drew possessed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause it's like the noises, the neighbors are playing disco and she just can't get any peace and quiet.
[SPEAKER_02]: right like you know like like a mom like maybe the television shuts off and a mom that's got full rest and doesn't isn't being manipulated through both time space and her mental her her the astral plane yeah maybe she's just like out a TV went out what you do but freaked out the gabriel has to you know get up and investigate and turn her back and do all these other things I
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's no telling what time travel I don't I think we're supposed and we are supposed to be wondering if David influenced it so that it was a self-fulfilling prophecy and I but I think if we're not sure then David how Halley is happy as as name
[SPEAKER_03]: Do I say it, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Remind me of it all?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you talking about Noah Hawley?
[SPEAKER_01]: Noah Hawley?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if we're not sure, see, I'm, I'm just mentally incapacitated.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if Noah Hawley, if we're not sure, but we're asking the questions, that's, I feel like that's when he's happiest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't want us to know for sure anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he eats that shit up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, where are we?
[SPEAKER_03]: My turn, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you doing your second point?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, mine is just, I love getting this new perspective on David's history with Feruque.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've talked about some of it, but I went back and watched that whole chalkboard scene to see how much of it was right and how much was wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: And for one thing, Professor X has full head of hair, but maybe his astral self is bald or maybe it was just, um, sort of metaphorical representation of him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And really what it was is so that we would all know who it was without them having to say the name, but it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then David surmised that Professor X and Shadow King fought before he was even born, but in this we see that he was already born.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, we see, uh, I liked, we see him in his basement with his like, cerebral prototype and I liked how it was, it sounded like he was tuning a radio and as he would turn his head, he could hear probably people's thoughts from whatever direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was pointing in that wheeler and that's how he found fruit and he's in Morocco at the head of this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It looked like a big banquet table and he was at the head.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what you guys got?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I got, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Eating and drinking as food.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like his followers and whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, he sees Professor Xie's him as the old yellow-eyed fat bastard for a second.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I kind of questioned that because I got the impression and the reason why he got so fat inside David is he was like a tick feeding off of his psyche.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then again, maybe he's gorging himself in Morocco too.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's always like a parasite or gluttonous person taking and taking.
[SPEAKER_03]: and I liked when he told Charles told Gabrielle I found someone like me I'm not alone so that tells us that he probably hasn't been in contact with any other mutants or at least any telepaths and it also tells us that the reason why he came into contact with
[SPEAKER_03]: with Frook is that he wanted to connect with somebody like him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he goes there and I love that phone call, where he's like, I made a mistake coming here, he's got no morals, he's a monster, and we presume that he fought him on their first meeting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one, and like we said, because he was an astral form, he could get back there before Charles could get back.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when he does come back, and he's like this, like the smoke monster, I lost like a plume of smoke, and it mirrored what was on the chalkboard because when Professor XBD and you could see his essence floated off like smoke.
[SPEAKER_03]: and uh... then she starts going nuts because she senses David's presence and also shadow king she says there's a light and there's there's a dark and she kind of freaked out at the end there where she couldn't find the door to her room because there was no door and then she kept turning baby David around and you could just see the back of his head oh god that was nightmare fuel
[SPEAKER_03]: and then she said stop it and they're it looked like a demon coming out of her and so all of that I'm not really sure what to make of it if it was just her own mental illness or was it the shadow king fucking with her do you guys have any thoughts about that
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're supposed to be an answer because that's like the big question of David.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like where does the mental illness and trauma end and where does the shadow king's influence begin and how much of things the David are doing or legitimately David things and how many of it and I think you're I mean I think because when she's writing the letter dictating his letter to Charles she talks about how
[SPEAKER_02]: She's starting to lose touch with the reality and how she sees shadows and it'll stay in the same place.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she's this is an illusion to seeing the shadow king has been looking for his moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much of this stuff is literally true because obviously this is fucking Legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: But because it was not clear to me why a powerful telepath
[SPEAKER_02]: banished you to astral plane would need the mom to like look away for thirty seconds to take possession of the baby.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but that's one of the rules I guess at the show kind of stuck to that they that the shadow king needed a moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I would understand if the Charles was there, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because you space since you got a bodyguard, but Gabriel would be helpless to anything that he would do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he just didn't want anyone to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know so that she if she saw that she would tell Charles hey this and then he could get him of smoke went into our baby right yeah like something took our kid and he could somehow still try to fight him out or whatever maybe
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can see how it would appeal to the shadow king and like a sick way to be like, oh, I'm going to be the kuku.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to lay my egg in another man's nest and I'm going to turn him into taking care of this and then when the time is right, I'm going to take control.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it definitely tracks with what we know of the way he enjoys playing with people and inhabiting their bodies and making them do things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can cross purposes, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Depelating and all that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the last part of the chalkboard thing was that he thought Shadow King possessed him for revenge against Professor X and also that, you know, to make himself stronger to siphon off David's power.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if that's true, then at least one of Frookes' goals still is to get revenge on Professor X. All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Riemann, number one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we've we've definitely touched on it quite a bit and I was kind of toying around with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It mostly just a lot of questions like did David drive his mother crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's hearing things.
[SPEAKER_01]: She can hear David or at least sort of hear David.
[SPEAKER_01]: She can hear something.
[SPEAKER_01]: She talks about there's a presence like a light that watches over her at night.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's like a dark shadow during the other times.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that we're supposed to probably assume that the light means David and the dark means a shadow king.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if it's the opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: just because I mean, I don't know, I think there's some ambiguity there on good and bad and how you can interpret that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also the question, you know, did David through his actions with all this time travel allow for to take over.
[SPEAKER_01]: We heard Switch say before, I think it was in the first episode, maybe, or maybe in the second about how
[SPEAKER_01]: you know dangerous it could be to go too far back and and we're being taught through all of these time travel lessons how it can be more and more unstable to go back so far and if you know he's opened something up and that's maybe that's why his powers were maybe a little bit more muted that's maybe why his mother couldn't hear him you know like we thought he wasn't able to come through as much and I'm thinking what in the world are they kind of messing with kind of going back that far
[SPEAKER_01]: And then again, the David's presence helped drive Gabrielle with little stability and peace that she found in Charles being gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was kind of losing that little by little.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when she was reading that book, Harold and the purple crayon, that story that she was reading, David at night, when she talks about the sun being bound to his own world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that through the very means by which she had hoped to change his fate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like David may have unwittingly kind of brought around this very version.
[SPEAKER_01]: that he was hoping to change.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oops.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you very mentioned that by commenting on the self-fulfilling prophecy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we've talked about that before too, like with Sid, too, with Future Sid and everything that, you know, with that self-fulfilling prophecy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Making David into an adversary.
[SPEAKER_01]: exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're kind of seeing that kind of same thing here that like no matter what, I felt I had so many lost vibes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I the only one that got lost vibes off of this episode where we had?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we had flashback kind of or what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there was the line we had to go back.
[SPEAKER_01]: David was telling us that we have to go back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that because for it kind of was coming across as like a smoke monster.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had that we have to go back.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to go back over and over again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then just the whole theme of like whatever happened happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, seeing a character who'd traditionally think of as being in a wheelchair walking around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do your point?
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember kind of almost gasping when I realized what was going on that they had caused, you know, we had seen that Switch had balked on going even four hours back in time because she's like, oh man, this is great.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what happened to the demon that was supposed to be in the hallway?
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that's a bit of a dropped plot thread there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm going to see that though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm only scoring a drop-plot point if we get to the finale episode and they haven't addressed it, but I think it's like I'm not sure if it's like a literal demonic force although with the glowing eyes it seems like a might or if it's like a metaphor or it could be both like it's metaphor
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, hey, we're gonna see like going back too far in time and rupturing the time is like a demon that can consume you, but we also know that division three that's kind of sort of being led by the shadow king is trying to head this time game off at the past.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if what we're actual when we saw an episode one, those yellow eyes, that's not literally the shadow king, who from another timeline is already there waiting the pounds.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I also sort of wonder if the shadow king is bouncing around in the time in time himself, because we saw a flash of, I think we saw a flash of the yellow-eyed fat bastard dude, even when Charles was in the mental hospital before all this even went down, which made me wonder, or if the shadow king has some kind of an inkling of what's happening all throughout time,
[SPEAKER_03]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are we?
[SPEAKER_01]: That was my number one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought I, I'm going to put the, the kill yourself scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know we kind of talked a bleakly around it, but I thought that was amazing and chilling and the way they showed kind of like the,
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, the impact the Charles himself when it happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: It reminded me a lot of like the saving private Ryan scene where the Nazi with the knife is wrestling with the American officer, but this time the the the allied officer has mine powers and can just have the guy kill himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And how I just it's it's it's interesting to to think of the Charles as a real character is like how in the world is someone have that much power.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not let it corrupt them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I mean, Charles like the care to like Charles is Xavier is right up there with Superman and my opinion that they must have the temperament of Christ or Buddha or whoever just to not let that like just imagine all the
[SPEAKER_02]: the initial all the just tiny annoyances or the times you've been enraged or the time like the times that you've been puffed up and gotten like a head esteem about justice for this or that and then you realize you were wrong when you've given it a second thought and you know Charles just essentially has to live his life like you know with with with with with those being real like he gets snap his fingers and make the world exactly the way he envisions it if you wanted to
[SPEAKER_02]: and he doesn't and I think that's that's interesting and and cool aspect of his character but you also see in David how or like I said that the purple man in the case of the Jessica Jones villain how you know that was the story of him is that that you know he
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like he's set out to be an evil person.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like, man, life is so much easier when you can just like make every yes turn every no turn into a yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And every man you be in a like absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's it's the kind of with great power comes with great responsibility or absolute power corrupts absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, for whatever weird reason Charles is not incorruptible.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean the really dangerous way to get to the place where you're just totally out of bounds with your power or David is He is a cult leader and so he has this ideology that everything he's doing ultimately is for the greater good and so when he tells Lenny your hungry go eat get out of my face He can say oh this is all for the greater good because of all this love that I'm gonna bring to the world and just little by little keep you know doing things like that until it's just totally out of hand
[SPEAKER_03]: And even in the comics later on, Professor X stories with Professor X explore where he may be stepped out of bounds and is that odds with other people because of... Did you ever, because you're prior reading comics about the same time I was, did you ever get into the What If comics series?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sometimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I usually would read him if I was interested in that particular story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, did you see the one where like What If Charles Xavier became the juggernaut?
[SPEAKER_03]: I might have.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh man, that was a trip where it's like essentially him and his brother Cain got switched places.
[SPEAKER_02]: So not only did he have fanatic, not only because he was in prison underground at the juggernaut, you know, crystal and he was like, the story's like he was tunneling from miles underground with his bare hands.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he can mentally stay aware of like all the things were happened to mutant kind in his absence and how bad things were getting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when he finally emerged in a surface, he had the full power of the juggernaut plus his powers of Xavier and he
[SPEAKER_02]: turned into a terrifying godlike character that just essentially ruled the earth with an iron fist and all like was a mutant supremist to make magneto blush.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's like when you find like, yeah, it's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that stuff too when they get and explore the darker sides.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: What what Xavier as you can tell I've been spending half the podcast meditating.
[SPEAKER_02]: How terrifying.
[SPEAKER_02]: I tell about that strong can be.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what the writers took advantage of one thing about those what if books is well, it's not we don't have to keep anyone alive or have them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Keep to their moral.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it can be super dark and tragic.
[SPEAKER_03]: right and then it'll be it'll be undone the next week as this is just an alternate this is a this is a timeline that could have happened but didn't yeah what if Spider-Man was a porn star go okay my number one is nature or nurture and I like to that the doctor in the mental hospital questioning trials had this high-digger quote every man is born as many men and dies as a single one does that mean anything to you
[SPEAKER_03]: And to me, that was about possibility when you're starting out, or actually when you're at any point in your life before your death, that there's many paths that can be taped.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it also kind of brings back that multiple timeline episode that we saw last season.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's echo throughout this episode, Gabrielle saying, David, my beautiful boy, who will you become?
[SPEAKER_03]: What will you do?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is just sort of acknowledging that there's so many possibilities.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then later on, when Gabrielle's talking to Charles, and she says, I've seen blood on fire talking about, you know, I'm fucked up, man, because of all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Charles is saying, we can change.
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes, people don't change.
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes, I don't believe that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she says, sweet, and proved me wrong, which I thought that was a really nice moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's echoing the same thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about whether or not David, I think,
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, at least the backdrop of us wondering how David's going to end up is always there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this whole question in the context of that is about is it possible at this point for him to still become a good person?
[SPEAKER_03]: At least that's what it is for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know now that we know that his mother and father were in a mental institution and I think sometimes mental illness can be hereditary, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That seemed like some of that stuff does run in families.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's a question of, I mean, I'm kind of talking about the same things we always talk about, but just that whole theme of whether or not David can be okay or not is running through this and now we have all these new additions to his past that
[SPEAKER_03]: make you question, I mean, God, it just feels like this poor guy has no agency that he's got so many influences.
[SPEAKER_03]: His mom was mentally unstable.
[SPEAKER_03]: His father has this power that he's inherited that
[SPEAKER_03]: absolute power corrupts absolutely he had the shadow king in there fucking with him It's weird to say with a guy that's so powerful, but it feels like he has the deck stacked against him and so yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of overcome that, I really was moved by all that his mom telling him a few times as a baby.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love you, I love you, my beautiful boy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially when he talked to himself, he's all, hey, you, little baby me, me so small, so happy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is your mom being good?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel loved?
[SPEAKER_03]: Something scary is coming.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll protect you.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of like what we were I was talking about last week about nurturing your inner child except he's just talking to his actual self as a child and I thought that was really sweet.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's just an open question of what the rest of his child is like.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I get absorbed when he starts because I start thinking like what does it mean to feel love?
[SPEAKER_02]: What does it feel like?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I feel loved?
[SPEAKER_02]: I start going down these like you know like these corridors in my mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was curious because you opened up this thing about like that something in this episode made you think that there's a glimmer for hope of David having happy ending and I'm curious of what what are you hanging your whole pat on here Jason?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just the fact that they're bringing in the question or the idea that there are possibilities.
[SPEAKER_03]: That quote to me every man is born as many men and dies as a single man is sort of indicating that until he's dead, he could be a bunch of different things.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if it was faded that he was going to be a villain, then that would, well, it still might be though.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I actually do think that's where this is going.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that Holly is trying to have it be a question.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that might either be just to give us false hope or it might be to give us actual hope.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think they want us to think that he's faded for sure to be a villain, even though I kind of do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I realize I'm all over the place.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of hope he's not at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a mark of a good story that they can have you kind of hopping on those two opinions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, having a doing something, doing, honestly, it wouldn't be a bad idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying that's what we're going to do, but it would be a bad idea to show when a realistic and empathetic way how a person could move forward from mistakes this big.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like if I look at the landscape and I look at the, you know, the posts me to the world we're living in are dealing with, you see a lot of people that done a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: They probably feel bad about regretting now and they can't talk about it because if they did, they're admitting to being monsters and how do you move forward, how do you get closure, how do you
[SPEAKER_02]: both respect victims and also people who might have inadvertently or they didn't know any better because of their own mental illnesses and the way they were raised and the place that they grew up in do these things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or even if they just pure and simple fucked up and then decided, that's not who I want to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do I change myself?
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I go forward and send no more?
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be interesting to see like have a path in some kind of fictional setting where people could be
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's try this on how do we what do we think what do what is this side say what does this side say I mean fiction is how we kind of like that that's the the laboratory where we work out a lot of ethics and morals There's interesting God was a revisionist history
[SPEAKER_02]: or was it no it was a it was an episode of Dan Carlin's hardware history where he was had to had this hypothesis and he might have got it for someplace else that like um one of the oh it was during a series of public executions he like it's kind of uh did an analysis of like historically how humans have seen
[SPEAKER_02]: public executions and capital punishment versus how we see it today and he sites as one of the things that really change people's minds about stuff is popular literature like Charles Dickens and how he would show like you know what is it like to be poor
[SPEAKER_02]: in London and what are the pressures that people face and are these actually just wicked people are these like you know that there's this complexities and shades of gray and do we feel good about seeing a poor kid who might have mental illnesses get hung strung up and we were you know you know pop and pop corn and bring a whole family out like
[SPEAKER_02]: you know that these these this literature and fiction and art is might be the thing that saves civilization is all I'm saying and you know I I plot people that use these art forms to ask like big questions and like positive big solutions and things like that and maybe they'll go down that that path in Legion maybe so it would be a brave move but I think if anyone could pull it off it might be no a holly
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but yeah totally agree with everything you said about what what literature can do like even just as simple as Will and Grace featuring prominently featuring gay characters I feel like changed American attitudes about about homosexuality Yeah, it's all about humanization and empathization like you know put yourself into other person's shoes and and and and really imagine what life is like for that and then
[SPEAKER_02]: And so many things in life the answers like why are this person acting this way or why are they screaming out in a street or why is this person on my YouTube saying this or that it's it's all explained just by like imagine you are them You are facing the pressures and that they are facing in life
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and the easy thing to do is if you don't understand something and you don't like it to just paint it as bad or evil and Right there is like I agree with the whole thing about empathy being really important and there's a point where you just can't even if you understand something it's not acceptable But yes, that's different than just saying I don't understand it and I'm not gonna try and I hate you
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the other side complete moral brellitivism.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like nothing's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing's bad from a human perspective.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that's the other side of the trap to fall into for sure Okay, I think we're at notes three my gotten he notes
[SPEAKER_01]: I do just a couple one that I wanted to point out that just really, I know we'll stay with me for quite some time and that's the image of the face down baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys catch that when Gabrielle, they're towards in, was like kept turning baby to her and it was just like just wrong, just all kinds of wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll never not be able to see that now for quite some time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because you want to see your baby's face, but also it had me feeling like I couldn't breathe, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I was about to say it felt like suffocating too because probably because we're taught, you know, you baby shouldn't be put to sleep, you know, you always go to the baby in the back.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like any parent that's grown up in the twenty years that that's been popular wisdom has probably gone in and like, you know, turned shifted there and
[SPEAKER_02]: and like it does feel like a dream like it's something you can't wake up from like oh my god I'm turning and I can't turn and I can't turn and I can't breathe and I can't breathe and it's highly effective.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very effective.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do imagery so brilliantly in the show for sure and that was very effective because it was just wrong all around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we had the English boy doll.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you guys see the doll?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I wanted to talk about that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Gabrielle has this doll in like the shoe box looking thing in her hand is in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, looks like there's a hole.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cut out in the side and her hand rests in there with the doll.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did she get the doll?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a Hitler doll?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know she came from camps.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is this thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, how we see this, because we saw it a lot in season one, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw this representation of the world's angriest boy, you know, play out throughout season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: as we're kind of learning a little bit more about David and when he was little and we saw this all over the place and then now we're seeing this doll and I wonder how much this kind of influence like today and what we did see David as an adult as he's exploring his childhood I mean did this this doll like kind of represent the mental illness being passed down or did it maybe represent the shadow king in season one like it was like what he uses is to show his influence like in the background yes
[SPEAKER_02]: I always thought and correct me around just because, you know, when you cover a show, like professionally in a podcast, it's a lot different than when you're just kind of watching at home.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I kind of disliked, took season two off some of these things and my brain might have gone mushy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess I thought that the world's angriest boy was a reflection of like some of the delusions that the shadow king had filled David's head with.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that showed his maligned influence.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think it was like a literal doll that he cared around or am I wrong with that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think that's what we thought until yesterday.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now I think that the shadow, what we also know the shadow king does is he takes images that are actually from the person's life and then inhabits them and uses them.
[SPEAKER_03]: so like you did with Lenny and so I guess you know you said Hitler I hadn't even considered that but you know we know she was in the concentration camps and so maybe it's why would you have a little Hitler maybe it's her way of this is just total speculation but it's her way of gaining control over it you know like I this is the my worst enemy in fear represented as a helpless little thing that I can control
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, but then give it to your baby.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was pretty twisted.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know that it was, but it did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that when we had that representation of the world's English boy in season one, I was like, gosh, it looks like a Hitler type, you know, what they modeled it after and then sing the doll.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, and then kind of matching up in the time period that we
[SPEAKER_01]: which I know that they kind of play around the time a little bit, like it's always kind of, you know, you don't quite know where you are in time in the sets and the clothes and cars and things, but I feel like they kind of established it, pretty good timeline here when we're talking about World War II and the camps.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I hear that, I think of Hitler, and then I think to see this doll, and that's where my mind is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know for sure that that's what it is, but it sure looks like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna say it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is like, are we not, are we quick to dismiss the, are we, why are we insisting that this is a real thing this because we saw it because we also know that these, was there, was there a picture of like Charles and Gabriel and David together with the World's Anger's Boy or as the World's Anger's Boy crop up when Charles went on his sabbatical to go find for root because if it's the latter,
[SPEAKER_03]: He opened the box, wasn't he the one who opened the box and saw her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was still kind of a catatonic state.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was in that shoe box and he lifts it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she then he catches her staring at him, which before she just seemed kind of glazed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when it kind of, you know, like startles him like, oh, she's watching me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in the world's angry spoil in the world does sound like Hitler.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, maybe it's not, but now that you said that and it looks kind of like Hitler and she's in the concentration camps, it makes me feel like there could be something there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, but that's that's all the notes that I had.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about missing teeth.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned last episode how I was trying to figure out what I had a theory that like maybe she was a double secret time twist in agent and that she was leaving her tooth behind as I'm got a breadcrum.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does seem now that the teeth are a sign of like time stress.
[SPEAKER_02]: it's precious yeah physical physical price is paying so I'm off the missing two thousand breadcrum and now so like I'm wondering because the other thing is obviously switch is exhausted her battery is run dry by the end of this episode and
[SPEAKER_02]: David is not got even a little bit of sympathy for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if it's going to lead the like David assuming direct control over her and enforcing her mind to overcome these body and like I, um, how man with as twisted as this show can get, I'm just like, what a switch going to look like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, the, uh, is she going to look like a Theon, Greyjoy, or is she going to be like, uh, Rick any cricket from, uh, from all the way sunny like every episode we see she's missing more teeth or faces more line than Haggard or her hair starting to fall out like how what kind of physical total is she going to pay by the end if we're three episodes into it down to teeth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think that time travel is going to keep being a part of it throughout?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, yes, because why would David give up?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it probably will, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's got in his piece.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's getting pressure from both ends.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got division three trying to hunt him down.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got to use time travel to say one step ahead of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then every spare moment he's not doing that, he's got to go back in time to try to fix it because there's also a clock on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he keeps on there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple times in episode where we're running out of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if that's like this particular session until we have to go back or like just in general until division three tracks is down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure because I've seen it's a funny thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a very legion thing for a guy who has time at his in his mastery now to say we're running out of it, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: that's like the federal reserves saying we're running out of money like what the hell does that even mean so one of those time travel rules or whatever it was that like self-help thing that she was listening to said something about not going back into the same point too much or it'll mess up the time stream or something like that but i don't know if david would care about that really
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think he doesn't give a shit about anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, ratifying his own, his own.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: As much as I'm saying, I hope that David comes around right now, I think he's completely rationalizing everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not taking any responsibility and he's just trying to erase his deeds without understanding that it's also his mindset that's a problem and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anything else?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, let's see, I think that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I had the world's anger as boy to talk about, but we were to cover that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what what you got Jason?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I did want to talk about the timeframe a little because the look of this hospital made me start.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know we've talked about it earlier on the podcast, but not recently.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this hospital, look like it came out of the forties or fifties.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're talking about the war.
[SPEAKER_03]: He hasn't had cherry pists before the war, and then we see they were both involved in it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was thinking, okay, then if current day for Legion is our current day, that would make David at least like, fifty-five or sixty years old or older.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's not right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, my go-to with his show is usually, well, it's kind of like a fable and nothing is strict and you're not really supposed to worry about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just supposed to indicate, okay, this was a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I did start to think maybe current day Legion is in the seventies.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in fact, I read something where Melanie said about Summerland that her husband inherited the place in the forties and he built this place with Carrie thirty years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it actually could maybe be in the seventies now I didn't like there's probably people using cell phones throughout that I don't remember whatever so I don't know but it could be in the seventies I mean there was actually a scene with people using cell phones but that was that I remember but that was when John Hamm was doing one of his speeches about I forget what it was but that whole thing is I feel like it could be considered outside the reality of the show
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm kind of with you, because I saw some people writing articles being like, aha, now we know the timeline.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I mean, certainly the stuff with Xavier about the war and it lines up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's also, I just wonder, is this something that Holly backed into when he realized maybe he could be tell a little bit more of Charles Store than he wanted to?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because like, I've always assumed that he was going for this kind of aesthetic.
[SPEAKER_02]: because it was just a deliberate choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, I'm going to make something that feels timeless.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to set it in this kind of like steam punk seventies by cheek kind of aesthetic and and then it allowed him to be like, Oh, no, actually, this is taking place in nineteen seventy three.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean we do we also see like Carrie he's got he's Mr. inventor, but all his inventions look really old like he's got this switchboard when David's sitting in that bathtub and you have to plug the cables into the right places You know, so I wonder yeah, I wonder but yeah, I think ultimately we're not supposed to really try to pin it down too much All right back to time for the news
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, a couple items this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: First, and we have is from colider.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are a few highlights from an interview with Executive Producer Lauren Schuler, Donna, and Executive Producer slash director, John Cameron, who was the director of this particular episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: First question is, in this third season, given that you have the opportunity to bring everything some closure, what did you need to do as producers to support Showrunner Noah Holley and get him to the point that he envisioned?
[SPEAKER_01]: John Cameron says he's very self-sufficient as a creator and writer, so our role is to support that, to read what he writes, to give him honest feedback, and to give him reactions, at least from my point of view, as a viewer as well as a producer, in regard to, does it make sense to me?
[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of the show that I've seen and that I enjoy and does it clarify or bring to a conclusion all of the various storylines that have been seeded throughout the first two seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really just an honest reaction to his work.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the most valuable thing for him in my regard.
[SPEAKER_01]: The production side is a whole different issue, which runs like clockwork.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I try to respond as a viewer in a fan of the showwood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lauren Schueler Donner says, as a producer on the production side, it's getting that vision to the screen and working with each director.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a different director for each episode except for John who directed two of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's about getting what Noah wants and his vision onto the screen with each director's take on it without taking away from what we know Noah's intention is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next question, because this is such a complex story that's told in such a complex way would it have been impossible to keep going for more seasons?
[SPEAKER_01]: Shuler Donner says, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Noah had the desire to make it a three season arc.
[SPEAKER_01]: Could he have kept on going and kept it compelling?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Noah can do anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cameron says, or could there be another three season arc?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's theoretic, but sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so fertile and the mythos is such a tapestry of different stories and different characters that I think it's eternal in a certain way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly the comics have done it for decades and I think television and film can do it as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next question, when it comes to introducing Switch this season, have you guys had to come up with rules for time travel?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cameron says yes, which is completely innovative and interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in a nigma.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't really know what she's about and why she's here, but we'll find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We tackle the travel rules in the actual plane rules script by script.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's part of the process of, can they do that?
[SPEAKER_01]: How did we get there?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then sometimes we have to look back and go, when this happens, this has to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a continually evolving approach to our internal story logic, calling it logic is pushing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shuler Donner, we try to do it with the time travel she goes through doors so we have a haul of doors.
[SPEAKER_01]: At a certain point we decided to define it so that each door was a different time, whether it's twenty minutes in the past, one hour in the past, one day or one month.
[SPEAKER_01]: That helps define that device for the audience.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if they went down this, like, like, what would the experience of we as a viewer went on with them?
[SPEAKER_02]: What would it be like to watch them go back in thirty for thirty years?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a day long jog.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe more, like if the things come in, like, you know, what was it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what hour of the minute, was it minute intervals or does it?
[SPEAKER_03]: It might, like, the intervals get larger.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: As you go back, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plus it's just a, it's just a construct for our feeble three to four three-dimensional minds to understand time travel.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like it actually might be some kind of like staring into some kind of black hole, but this is how the camera caught it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, Ryan, just about slipped in it and admitted he has a four-dimensional mind there, but.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was actually debating like we are four-dimensional creatures, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause we exist in both time and space, but I got caught up in my own bullshit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know Chris Rock is in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all that I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think there's another big name announced it, but I have that's that's the one I thought of too remas so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't, I mean, that they might have been out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do try to keep up on notifications with Noah Holley and his projects, but that's really the last one that I've seen if there's been anything else since then.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm out of the loop at the moment, but I haven't haven't seen anything lately.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just know they have to keep pushing it because of the movie he's doing, trying to get Legion wrapped up, and then hopefully he can then.
[SPEAKER_01]: After since this is over now, yeah, I'll jump back into that project and get it moving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have one more quick item from the wrap.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is with an interview with Noah Hawley.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Legion creator and showrunner Noah Hawley said that even though dark Phoenix was coming out a month before, he didn't have to cut through any corporate red tape with twentieth century fox to use Xavier.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, we're going to have to meet David's parents eventually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody fought us on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a question obviously about what age is he?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the model?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he the McAvoy age?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he Patrick Stewart's age?
[SPEAKER_01]: Should we try to get either of those actors to do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: He explains.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, I felt like we established our own alternate reality here on Legion, where it's both
[SPEAKER_01]: and the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I felt like the younger Xavier was actually more consistent with the timeline, but there's something about David.
[SPEAKER_01]: If David meets his father and his father is his age, I think there's something interesting about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always think that he, however strong his powers at that age were expressing themselves, but they were something that he wanted to do some good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that Gabrielle allows him to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that he used it the mind to kill the enemy soldier.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it opened himself up and he became scared of it and I think anyone would know what happened in that tunnel besides you part of me wonders if he committed himself or if he allowed himself to be brought there because he kind of has become lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: He also adds the story from the comic is that he met Gabrielle in an institution and helped her get out of a catatonic state and it was interesting to the degrees that it paralleled David and Sid's story and I wanted to look at that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good job.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it did good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all I got.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's my understanding.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you saw this too Jason because I didn't remember any this backstory.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's because I just missed those plot lines, but that Dino who else he ran into at that is Rayleigh Holocaust survivor rehabilitation clinic in the comics.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Storm?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: One Eric Lensher.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like neither.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got a little thrill of excitement when he's talking that doctor that maybe that they were going to do some hip, but then they actually explicitly identified him as somebody else.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now that you're telling me that there's more Professor X to come, I wonder if there will be any kind of like, I'll be, I'm going to be on the lookout because I also
[SPEAKER_02]: I also thought the cerebral helmet was very, had a little bit of the shadow of the Magneto helmet, which makes sense in the comic timeline because they worked together to build that first one.
[SPEAKER_02]: But interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I feel like a howly really has a focus, so I would be surprised to see that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's fun because I feel like he sometimes tries to do a nod to things, so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: You never know what he might do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not expecting this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm expecting like a season one type of like reference to oblique reference to Charles X, the same one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean the thing about this series that I was looking forward to that I didn't get and so I'm a little disappointed even though I love the show is what Legion is all about and I just was reminded of this when I was looking at his Wikipedia entry is
[SPEAKER_03]: There was some kind of terrorist attack and an explosion and terrorist died and their psyche's got absorbed into David.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he had them as multiple personalities and I think each one of them had a different power.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so sometimes he was really evil because each one of the personalities would sometimes be in control, like, you know, your stereotypical multiple personality story.
[SPEAKER_03]: which is probably why Noah Hawley didn't do it because it's too stereotypical.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's why he's called Legion because he has this Legion of different personalities inside of him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the only reason why I'm bringing that up is because Hawley will just make this story what he wants it to be to tell his story and not adhere to the comics when he doesn't think it's interesting or useful, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in a way he's going about exploring the, you know, it's just multiple personalities in a different way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just David's own personalities.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're definitely getting a bigger statement here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's always talking to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And well, in this season, they're talking back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're all communicating.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we see them in kind of a physical form like when he's going to serve tea to switch.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he's constantly kind of arguing with the different versions of himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's like the angel over here and the devil over here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just remember in the comics, you would see him as a totally evil person, you know, because one of those bad guy personalities who come to the fore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we pray to get going.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's move on to mental notes or listening responses.
[SPEAKER_02]: First one from Daniel Lee.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey Jason, Rima and Aeron.
[SPEAKER_02]: Long time listener.
[SPEAKER_02]: First time emailer here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, what an hour television.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was so pleasantly surprised to see that Stephanie Cornelius and who was tremendous on Mr. Robot was portraying Gabrielle and she did not disappoint.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was such a beautifully tragic episode, even though we knew from the start how it would end that sense of inevitability only added to the sense of verboting that built up throughout.
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew pretty early on that David would be the one to cause Gabrielle to revert to her broken catatonic state and thereby cause his own doom, but the way it was revealed was so heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_02]: From her internal musings, wondering if she'd ever left the mental hospital to the moment we see the letter, she's been writing to Charles as just a zigzag line, as completely shattered.
[SPEAKER_02]: As for the broader plot implications, the parallel of David and Sid to Charles and Gabrielle does give me a modicum of hope that David can be redeemed.
[SPEAKER_02]: While his rape of Sid is still unforgivable, we, and most importantly, David, get to see how differently Charles uses and views his powers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Charles knows how invasive his telepathy can be, and imposes rules on himself to that end.
[SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps, although I do think it's unlikely, David will eventually realize that he's not helping people at all, and the way he's abused his powers is only ended up hurting the ones he loves the most, including himself and his own mother.
[SPEAKER_02]: Side note, his monologue to his baby self is one of the most crushing moments in an episode filled with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, I wasn't totally on the forrook as manipulating division three train until this episode, but this seal it for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a great reminder that this guy has been as Charles describes him the devil from the absolute start.
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep up the amazing work, Dan.
[SPEAKER_02]: PS, what on earth made Charles and Gabrielle think that doll was a good comfort toy for a child?
[SPEAKER_01]: No clue.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really worked.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really worked for Gabrielle.
[SPEAKER_02]: It worked so well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It put her into a coma.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she was just, you know, you raise your kids away, you're raised.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good enough for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pass on the track.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would why on earth, but anyone think that beating a child of the belt would be a good thing to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet it happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this one's from Jamie Henry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me see if I have this right David with the help of Switch went full brand stark and pulled a hodor on his mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by doing this, Charles was distracted long enough that the shadow king could move in and possess David's infant self.
[SPEAKER_01]: So David was always going to be infected by the shadow king because he always interfered at that moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is why messing with time is not a good idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now my brain hurts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Costuming observation, David's mom was always wearing different shades of green when she was in the house with Charles.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the mental hospital and right at the end when David hodored her brain, she was wearing white.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea if that means anything, but it was something I noticed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Peace and love, Jamie H.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know they do a lot with color and costumes and for characters specifically a lot like Sid always and I guess this season it's more black but she always wore orange in seasons one and two so it seems like characters do kind of have a theme of colors I don't know if it means anything with this one but I don't think it hurts to point it out interesting yes she's wearing black and her future self war black so she's heading towards that mm-hmm oh that's right
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I forgot to mention to his mom is Gabrielle Holler, and he's David Holler, so maybe that means that they end up passing him off to her relatives, maybe her brother or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm glad you mentioned that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to mention that earlier, but I hate to refer to much of the comics because I know that Noah Holler kind of does his own thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: doesn't really use it to heavily for reference, but and they didn't say her name or did they, but I know she's not credited.
[SPEAKER_01]: She just credited their real name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's Gabriel Gabriel Gabriel, Gabriel Haller in the comics, and then he's David Haller and a peek, but if, and then his sister Amy is Amy Haller.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why they all, it's her brother, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they said the mental institution that she didn't have any family.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm done with this show.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crap at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have one call this weekend.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's from Steve Brown.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Jason Arena.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Steve and this is for Legion chapter twenty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come with Charles and Gabriella.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
[SPEAKER_00]: really good episode and I can't I can't wait to hear what you guys thought because there's so much going on here even though we have kind of a bottle episode where we only have basically our four or five characters but I really like these the same song when we when they leave the mental institution it's the same song that
[SPEAKER_00]: We have for David and Sid that she comes in colors for rainbows, some growing stones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, and I really like to be met in a mental institution.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the irony there seems really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's too bad that David wasn't able to stop for work, for mentoring his younger self.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have been interested to see
[SPEAKER_00]: how that would have worked out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was also, there was a moment there where I almost thought that David was going to be the one who drove himself crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like from the past, like it was not for Rook that drove him crazy, but it was his cell.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it seemed to me, and correct me for a long, it sounded like
[SPEAKER_00]: she was the one that had the mental illness and passed it on to him and Charles passed on his teleconesis to Epiphany to date and so he basically got both of the positive and negative from his parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to watch it again and can't wait to hear you guys thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Litter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we didn't really mention that much that he actually totally failed and
[SPEAKER_03]: It might, yeah, just mean that it was always going to be that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think also that this was this is not really driving a plot forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is just at this was this was like painting an emotional palette that then, you know, no, the Holly can then spend five minutes because like the thing is is like David goes back in time and either he
[SPEAKER_02]: stops a shadow king or he doesn't and then that's not particularly interesting what's interesting is what comes next right if he stops a shadow king what does the world look like I actually am hoping that he stops a shadow king so we can see David's quote unquote perfect world and half screwed up it's going to be right right yeah so I'm I'm kind of curious to see that happened but I thought this like you know I
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I said it's kind of surprised me it took a whole episode to do this, but I kind of feel like that he's going to take these concepts he set up and riff on them several times in the next few episodes as we see David tried to do this and David tried to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's also it's to Steve's point.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it could be
[SPEAKER_02]: all of those things like it's true that he got mental illness from his mother it's true that he got telepathy from his father it's true that shadow king took whatever base was there and then twisted it and then he also looked like he had some bad experiences growing up with his adopted family and you know like um i entirely believe it's possible you can have the gene for like bipolar but because you have a great
[SPEAKER_02]: upbringing and a support system that never fully manifest itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how do you get your quote?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like so there's things that can pour gas on a fire and there's things that can stuff a fire out and I'm not a psychologist.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have any informed basis for this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, you know, something I think that maybe they're trying to suggest.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what my thought was.
[SPEAKER_03]: Please, all the listeners don't make any decisions regarding your mental health based on anything we say.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Consult, consult your mental health professional before going back in time to stop a malevolent being from hijacking your body.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please, consult professional.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, that's our show episode twenty one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening, everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, a Ron and Rima.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want to get in touch with us, you can email or send a voice message like Steve did to us at Legionapotcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find us on the web at facebook.com slash Legion pod.
[SPEAKER_02]: And be sure to check out our mini other great shows at ballmove.com and podcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which show on baldmove.com right now are you like the most?
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you like to promote the most?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just marathon, Stranger Things, I've finished it today.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we got full coverage of Stranger Things, three.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm excited because Sessley and I are starting a coverage for season three of Hulu's Harlitz to show the premieres tomorrow night, Wednesday, or I guess it's Hulu, so it's just premieres Wednesday.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to be talking about that on our bald new television podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love Harlitz.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was ready to watch that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard good news.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is, Rima, it is a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, also for every all you know, I think for all women watching it there is just so much rape So because it did the plot is you know, eighteen century body houses and the women that run them and the men that frequent them and there's just a lot of sexual assault and rape But it's it's it's it's definitely for a woman's perspective type of television so
[SPEAKER_02]: That just usually sets up epic revenge plots and these women are tough and strong and there's one of my favorite characters looks like she's literally a character from Bloodborne.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to covering it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's happening?
[SPEAKER_02]: What's happening?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that you have to have that kind of warning because it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the hot stuff I'm about gastrogrant now?
[SPEAKER_02]: Rima?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, we are also covering stranger things on our strange deed podcast right now and having so much fun with that now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do a week by week.
[SPEAKER_01]: We only watch week by week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I am only on episode two.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're podcasting on later tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have not been shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we choose to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but for people who have self control, go to a podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the course themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, we are in the minority with that belief.
[SPEAKER_01]: There aren't very many people that follow along the whole thing myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, most folks are binging and what they'll do is they'll binge it all then they'll go back and they'll like rewatch it and then do our like follow along our podcast, but they keep themselves and that's perfectly fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you guys do you, that's perfectly fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just what we've chosen to do because we we're not able to just like binge it and then push out a whole bunch of that just as work for our schedule unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish we could but we're just not able to do that so we decided to do week by week.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're having a great time with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is a fabulous season so far, loving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do wish Netflix would not like liquid on their new shows would release them like week by week or maybe one or two a week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because I it's just it's just I think it hurts themselves because it destroys the water cooler talk like instead of
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of Stranger Things hanging around for the rest of summer, we're talking about it all the way up into September and everybody's, you know, like, it gets talked about for a week or two, then it's kind of, it's kind of gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so honest.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've done, we've tried so many different experiments, so many different formats of cover, Netflix shows, and it's just really difficult, because everyone watches it differently, and everyone's at different places, and you try to cater to the audience, cater to, and we're catering to the buttons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: My favorite show right now is this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yesterday I covered probably the worst episode of any show I've ever heard since I started podcasting, but we had fun podcasting about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we got to fucking thrash it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hater, your Hater Jason.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let it let it flow through.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, that's our show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.