[SPEAKER_04]: And every time each meme makes a decision or something happens where the future could like go in different directions.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not the branch opens up.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the branch makes branches.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a lot of branches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast, I'm Jason.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm Rima.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is Legion cast episode, fourteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are just gonna have an episode of ninety minutes of silence to reflect our knowledge about the sounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm just kidding.
[SPEAKER_05]: To reflect and ponder what we just watched.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just saw.
[SPEAKER_05]: What was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's our top five highlights for Legion season two episode six chapter fourteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you like it?
[SPEAKER_05]: I did.
[SPEAKER_05]: What's it twice?
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_05]: I almost had to watch it three times, just to feel like I could make some sense of what was happening.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the picture could become more clear, but I only watched it twice.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I did.
[SPEAKER_05]: I liked it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like to lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt very epic because one of my favorite episodes of TV ever is the last episode of six feet under and I won't give too much away, but it shows, you know, long periods in the character's lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just made it feel when you really are attached to a character and you see parts of their lives throughout their life.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels more emotional to me, especially when they have the right music in there, which this episode did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not only that, but we saw different versions of his life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow, the way Noah Holley takes these superhero concepts and makes him feel more personal.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really got to me, especially towards the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just like, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like really kind of thrown off balance by this at first, but suddenly I'm feeling just really moved by it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really liked a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just knocking it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what's your number five?
[SPEAKER_05]: My number five, I'm just gonna start up at the top and I know I sound like a broken record whenever I say this, but I feel like it just can't be mentioned enough because I feel like they do such a great job and that is the cinematography and the visuals that we get.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that they do such a great job with how they set up different scenes in this show.
[SPEAKER_05]: One of the scenes that I really liked was the scene in the tunnel with homeless David and those street thugs, that was the scene like copycatted right out of Clockwork Orange.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it was just, you know, the way that the color, the darkness, and like the color coming from the other side of the tunnel, and I thought that was really, really awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they get credit for that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though they'd copied it directly from a clock record.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I was talking about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: They were saying, I mean, they admit that Clockwork Orange is an inspiration for Legion.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not like, you know, no holiday, it's still liking it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it being, and some of the directors and stuff that have directed episodes admit there.
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, homage to various things of Clockwork Orange.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we've all noticed them before.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, season one, like with Clockworks, and we see it again in this episode, the mental institution or facility that David goes to.
[SPEAKER_05]: And speaking of that, the image at the end when David is getting out of the car, Clockworks, and he's with the sister Amy, and they have that above shot showing the car and the rain is falling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: David gets out of the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like those beautiful shots from above.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I do too.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think they really do great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Game of Thrones are walking dead with the tank and it is on be swimming around it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are very memorable.
[SPEAKER_05]: They are very memorable.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think this was one too.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it made an impact of just the sadness of the scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you get the, you know, it just really kind of draws you in.
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel into the whole scene and a big picture of it and how much sad that moment was.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to figure out why that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's almost like in dead post society when Robin Williams stands up on the desk and has all the other kids stand up on their desks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember that?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just so they can see the room from a different perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of wakes you up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's kind of like that because you're just not used to seeing things from that angle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just shifts you into another state of mind where, yeah, I don't know exactly what it is, but it's good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the way they set up scenes like that and decided to shoot them can make such an impact, I feel it can make more of an impact than just words being said.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this show is one of the best.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they're definitely known for the visuals because there wasn't there was dialogue and it wasn't that it was a completely silent episode or anything but there wasn't I don't feel a whole lot of dialogue so they I think really used the visuals in in the music the visuals and the music that went along to tell the story that that we got in this episode so they always do such a great job
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, of course, whenever David gets all supernova when he's harnessing his super power, I love those as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, the way he just kind of glows and gets backlit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was pretty powerful going off.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's just my thing, which is, you know, the show continuously just knocks it out of the park the way that they use their visuals and set up shots to just make them more, I think, make more of an impact.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's my number five.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and yeah, I wish some other shows I watched did it this well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, what am I podcasting on?
[SPEAKER_01]: Westworld does it pretty damn well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Walking dead, fear the walking dead is better this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if people listening to me care about these other shows, but it's just making me think about how much like Legion is a cut above.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's my favorite thing I'm watching right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And each with these two recent episodes this one and the one two weeks ago exploring Sid.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really cementing it as one of my favorite shows ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm feel like I almost locked into podcasting about the show that I'm so excited to watch every week.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, my number five is just to try to figure out what the fuck is going on because that's the first thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: You get, you get all the, you can, yeah, just sit here and I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you just thrown all these different scenes of different versions of David.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think you really are supposed to get what is going on until maybe kind of in the middle or towards the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even then, I mean, I really didn't have a semi-clear idea of it until the very last scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I went back and watched again and made a little more sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just trying to absorb it on first watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a few minutes in, I'm like, well, I really don't know what this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can't analyze it the way I normally do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just going to have to let it wash over me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I like the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it was a show, if it was a new show or a show that I didn't like that much, then I think it would be annoying.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because it's the show, I'm happy to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was kind of cool that they
[SPEAKER_01]: are even more inscrutable than usual, at least as the episode starts out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're forced to kind of just take it as it comes and not have it all figured out.
[SPEAKER_01]: At first, I thought that David had started his to become this apocalyptic bad guy and he had replaced everyone on the planet with copies of himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: because they showed him I think on the bench the bus bench and then the camera paned over and then he was in a car or something as a different version of himself and then it paned again and then he was the intern holding coffee but it was all it looked like in the same time frame in the same scene right and I thought and I think now well that was just artistic license but those were actually our alternate realities because when you get to where a tweaker David
[SPEAKER_01]: is talking all about alternate timelines.
[SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm with the salghi fries and they branch in the branch and whatever and like he's saying that you know every possible outcome exists somewhere in some universe and that like time is always branching off so that everything is happening and it's just creating new realities and that is exactly the way it works in comics and it's a big part of X-Men these are the most
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the multiverse, but also just the branching thing so that you could share, you could have, you know, up to a certain point.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've shared this timeline, but then it branches out so that then these two different versions of yourself and be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before that branched out, you have the same timeline.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just one person, but then once it branched out, then you went two different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then it just keeps branching and branching and branching.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that means like baby David.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all have that in common.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, that's what we're seeing.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing just different manifestations of David that could have happened depending on what choices he made and what different things happened to him in his life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he, because at the very end we see him where we left him last episode sitting there with Lenny, crying and he just found out his sister died.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think all of this takes place in that moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, but it feels like he's going out and exploring different possibilities for his life because he just wants to get away from this moment where he's suffering because his sister died.
[SPEAKER_01]: And either he could choose one of those or maybe he's even kind of creating those realities.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's so powerful that you don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But see, I don't totally have it figured out, but I think it's something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this whole episode is just kind of an escape.
[SPEAKER_01]: for him to explore different realities that he could escape to.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're right where Amy is alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess, I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we saw her in some of those different manifestations and some of them we didn't see her, but we don't know whether she's alive or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't comfortably say that she's alive in all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the only one I don't remember seeing her in was when he was the family man with the wife and two kids.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't know that she was alive.
[SPEAKER_05]: We can as maybe assume she was, but maybe just maybe not as present because she seemed to be more of a caregiver or anchor for David in his life.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she was a lot more present whenever he did need the help, but maybe at that point in his life because he somehow repressed his powers that he did need her
[SPEAKER_05]: like he needed her and the other I guess universes that we saw.
[SPEAKER_01]: So do you think you know there's one version of him where he's an old man he looks like he has Parkinson's or something he's really stiff and kind of shaking and he has a woman taking care of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that's Amy?
[SPEAKER_05]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, because at first I thought it was his wife, but then I thought, oh, maybe it's Amy.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think it's Amy.
[SPEAKER_01]: What about where he's an old man with a chaggy beard homeless guy?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that is when Amy has, she's probably alive, like we didn't see her, but I think she's probably alive maybe.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he was pretty old and she's older than him, so maybe you're maybe not, but I think that she may be alive and that is after she's given up on him.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's why he is where he is.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's my number five, which is, which are four.
[SPEAKER_05]: My number four kind of goes into a little bit of what you were talking about.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's theories and questions and this is I don't know anything.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know spoilers.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't look at spoilers.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't even really know that much comic stuff, which I don't know that it is any good to know any comic stuff at this point.
[SPEAKER_05]: But just a couple things I wanted to throw out there about what we saw in the last episode and how it kind of ties into this episode a little bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wondered if for Rook could be holding Amy's consciousness hostage.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think maybe we asked that question the last episode that maybe she's not really dead.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe her body's dead.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe her consciousness isn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is he using that or will he use that to get David to do his bidding?
[SPEAKER_01]: right he promised David he wouldn't kill anyone but he's a bad guy so that doesn't necessarily mean anything but if he yeah maybe because of that he is holding her or yeah like he said leverage
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like she's dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it just seems like David is so upset and that was such a momentous thing, seeing all of her as the shadow king raising her up and just drawing her body or changing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this episode felt kind of like a goodbye to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I could be wrong, but it just feels like they're saying goodbye to her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I mean, I'm just throwing stuff out there.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't really know when we're another that that makes sense as well because I also think or think could be a possibility that I think for this episode, you know, I remember kind of watching this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: And after I watched it the first time I was kind of like, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: They, everything they do is a purpose.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everything that we saw in this episode, even though it was more of, I mean, a little bit of, like, loss with sideways, instead of really propelling so much forward.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it did the character, I think, maybe for David.
[SPEAKER_05]: It might have done something for his character that maybe we don't know yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll see that maybe in the next episode or to come in the rest of the season.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it was more like a sideways thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not plot-wise, but character-wise, I think even when you see alternate versions of his personality and also how he interacts with Amy and these different realities, it does help fill out the characters, even though it's alternate versions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that, it's not plot movement, but it's character-building, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think so too.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it makes me wonder because, you know, for who keeps telling David or like trying to encourage him to, you know, make his reality like the shadow king does, like the shadow king makes his own reality.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, he's like, that's how he encourages David to live and could David possibly manipulate his reality, like the shadow king does and would he be able to get one of the living amings out of one of those.
[SPEAKER_05]: like other universes in bring her to where he is now.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's just something I kind of a question I threw out there because I feel like there's a reason we were shown all of these different possibilities and you know and then we get food to tell David you decide what is real and what is not your will.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and I feel like that contrasts with
[SPEAKER_01]: When David's sitting in the car with Amy and they're getting ready to drop him off at Clockworks and he's upset and that was a sad scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you don't blame her.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she has to deal with, but she doesn't really want to do it and he doesn't either, but it has to be done and he says it wasn't supposed to be like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, I know, but it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I almost feel like maybe that's the choice that David has to make here.
[SPEAKER_01]: that should I do it the shadow king's way where enforcing reality to be the way that I want it to be, or should I just accept the way things aren't deal with it?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I got from it, too.
[SPEAKER_05]: We see that one side of the coin, like you said, with what fruit tells them, but then what Amy tells him, they're at the end.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I thought the same thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, well, he made the choice.
[SPEAKER_05]: When you see him at the end, when he's like, and you see the pain and suffering,
[SPEAKER_05]: And from what we saw in the last episode we're letting Lenny is holding him and he has chosen to come back to this reality because you know that it is what it is and not choose another reality or make another reality because I think he's powerful enough to create his own reality if he wanted to and make it make it what he wants but he chose to come back.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I agree with that as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's my number four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'll go to a Clockwork Orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, like you mentioned, you see these guys in the alley beating up homeless David and they're taking right out of a Clockwork Orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never saw that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird actually, for some reason I kept catching the last half hour of that movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a Clockwork Orange's Malcolm McDowell, he's part of this gang called The Drugs.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're this violent gang on a crime spree going around beating people up.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then they get captured and subjected to these experimental psychological treatments to try and reprogram them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I keep seeing that part where they've got him in a chair and they've got his eyes held open, forcing him to watch violent images or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I've seen that several times that I never saw that at the beginning, but I get the idea and so it's you're right it parallels there's elements of that in the show that's probably why they named the institution clock works because they're trying to rehabilitate and these people or at least help them who have mental problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was wondering why the movie was called Clockwork Orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I looked it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's an English expression that's queer as a Clockwork Orange, just meaning some things are very strange.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where that expression comes from.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that kind of tracks because there's strange people inside Clockworks, I guess you could say.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: but in this nineteen eighty six introduction to the book a clockwork orange author Anthony Burgess says a human being is in doubt with free will he can use this to choose between good and evil if he can only perform good or only perform evil then he is a clockwork orange meaning that he has the appearance of an organism lovely color juice but is in fact only a clockwork toy to be wound up by god or the devil
[SPEAKER_01]: he goes on to say the important thing is moral choice and when Alex can't choose to perform the Alex in the movie can't choose to perform good or evil after this treatment he's become a clockwork orange so I don't it feels like you know with all this choice of alternate realities but also the choice that you and I just talked about about whether David decides to create another reality for himself or just accept the one he has is somehow related to that
[SPEAKER_01]: for Luke says, you decide what is real and what is not, you're well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that plays into the whole thing that we just decided might be what this is about, which is David making the choice to let reality be what it is rather than force it into something unreal.
[SPEAKER_05]: Very well said.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious to what's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are intelligent listeners have to say about that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they always have good stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, number three.
[SPEAKER_05]: So gosh, this episode was just so sad and that's what my number three is is just the sadness.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I really kind of had to, I just kind of sat there for a while and in pretty much tears because at last, last scene when Amy's taking him to Clockworks and it was just so sad and
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I really got that bond between David and Amy and their brother, sister bond and that's really what this whole episode was about.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think was their sibling dynamic that they shared in each of these realities and then the one that we know to be true because I feel like that one was what was real.
[SPEAKER_05]: We saw some others that were like possibilities but that's the one that actually happened where we go into it kind of takes us into season one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but it was so, it was just so sad.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I really, I don't know if it hit me because I have a younger brother and, and, you know, I feel like I can understand where she's coming from and trying to, you know, take care of him and just wants the best for him and when he hurts himself or others or something, how that affects her.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was just so sad and that one point where she asked him, you know, she's like, well, what about you in this girl?
[SPEAKER_05]: Why can't you have what everyone else has?
[SPEAKER_05]: And David just looks at her really sadly and just says, because I'm sick.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was like saddest day of things I think I've ever been.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was seeing, then there was just the constant and happy endings throughout the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like there was no happy outcome.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I guess the one where he's like the family guy with a couple kids, that seemed pretty happy that we saw anyway.
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like we didn't see too much of it, but what we saw seemed happy.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the other, others, it was just constantly unhappy.
[SPEAKER_05]: There was either he was unhappy, he was sick.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was so far gone or he was dying and all of them or else Amy was unhappy because he had died and something had happened to him So there was no good outcome seeing how his illness really affected him like when he wasn't on his meds or how far it took him We just really sad to see to see him like talking to himself on the street his little outbursts
[SPEAKER_05]: His illness and then seeing the shadow came when the cops come and are like, you know, hey, what's going on?
[SPEAKER_05]: Buddy and the arrest human stuff and that whole scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was just really sad.
[SPEAKER_05]: It affected me.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it just like there was always all of the suffering.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, of course, the scene we talked about, of course, where Amy does taking to Clockworks that really made me tear up.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, of course, the end when we see David, where we saw him in the last episode, where he was just completely devastated to learn what had happened to Amy, just brought it all back.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think and then after seeing the scenes that they had together in this episode and I think that maybe I can see why they did it this way and I think it made a big impact but I can almost see if they had done this episode prior to the last episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I think that made Amy's loss even more devastating.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we haven't seen Amy since some time in the end of season one.
[SPEAKER_05]: And she's been absent for several episodes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then all of a sudden we get her and it was sad when she was gone and you could really feel for David.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think this episode really made her loss more impactful.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think we're going to see that and see how that affects David moving forward for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if they would have switched to two episodes around, then it would have felt more like something on the walking dead where they telegraph someone's going to die.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how we're giving Amy her big episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of liked that they brought her back and you're like, Oh, what part of she's going to play?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they killed her in this really horrible way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, then we get this episode where it just deepens the impact of that because yeah, there's so much interaction between Amy and David and
[SPEAKER_01]: you get to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the whole version of David with the mustache where she's reminding him to take his pills and she's really trying to keep a lid on things and keep a positive face even though she's totally worried about him.
[SPEAKER_01]: and she's like his mom and I don't think we got quite we quite got before how much of a mother figure she is to him so this really brought that home and it made it even more apparent why David would be so floored by this whole thing I mean you already know it logically because it's his sister but yeah seeing these scenes and kind of going through the experience of what it was like to have her as a sister
[SPEAKER_01]: just made it more sad.
[SPEAKER_05]: It did.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was so sad.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it was like, I don't know, I felt like you were and had the dark cloud around me with the rain just sitting there washing it going, oh my gosh, this is awful.
[SPEAKER_05]: I need to go watch something happy because it's a different thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was going to ask, do you not like it when it shows does that?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I do like it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I don't mind being sad.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love feeling all emotions and I'll, you know, I welcome it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But boy, I have to shake it off.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't let it sit with me too long because I do feel things very deeply.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, let's shake it off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ready, one, two, three.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just have, I have to do something to shake it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because if I don't, it'll, you know, I'm always in such a dark place anyway.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have such a dark side that if I don't, like, try to do something to get some of that dark.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hang yourself with the cooler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, off myself with the electric board.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a dark joke, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do too, but if a show, like, if every episode was like this, I might not want to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know I like that the show's varied and that there's a lot of humor as we've talked about a lot the season and romance So but I also loved to be moved and So I really liked this episode as I mean yeah, it was super duper sad and I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought you know you mentioned that there were no good outcomes except for this Happy family, which almost seemed like too good to be true postcard
[SPEAKER_01]: we want waffles daddy and they're playing the pool but it's nice and I don't know what to make of it but if we just accept that okay this is one of his possible realities and I actually think it makes it more interesting if he actually had the choice to go into that and chose not to because it's not just him choosing not to do another reality because they're all shitty
[SPEAKER_01]: It's choosing not to do it because he wants to accept the current reality and not hide from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though he had a better choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or a happier choice.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it does come down to the choices.
[SPEAKER_05]: It almost seems like if he even though Amy was alive in some which we don't know about Amy in that particular scene or scenario that plays out.
[SPEAKER_05]: But in the other words, we know she was alive.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I feel like just him choosing the when he came back.
[SPEAKER_05]: and choosing to stay there and accept what happened and to go through it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because to not do that, it seems like it would be a dishonor to her and her memory it seems.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, it just seems like it would, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just doesn't fit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: My number three is David and Amy's relationship, which we talked about a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I did want to just particularly mention that this one scene where he sees the fat bastard or hears voices.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's walking down the street.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, get away!
[SPEAKER_01]: And somebody happens to be walking by
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, oh, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think they probably went to the cop and said, hey, you better check the guy out over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they go up and he's just trying to hide pretend he's not there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, excuse me, sir.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he sees the shadow king dude in the back seat again and he flips out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just escalates escalate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when Noah Holly says this shows a tragedy, this feels like one of those moments.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they've got him all.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know the grab him and sister shows up and then he just started blasting them away boom and then he crumpled that one guy up oh my gosh and he just was so great like turn him into mush it was so gritty and this show doesn't it gets a little gross sometimes but that may be one of the grossest things we've ever seen
[SPEAKER_05]: That is probably one of the more gory things I think we've seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gory.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this is Amy's worst nightmare for David.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is her worst nightmare.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come true when she's sitting there screaming with blood all over her face.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just so intense.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he does his bear down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was the same thing that the old homeless bearded version of him did just like this explosion comes out of him and all of a sudden
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's disappeared except for a sister by the way their shadows remain just notice that
[SPEAKER_01]: I did notice that and it also happened in the tunnel with the homeless David the town you could see the shadows and maybe wonder if they are shadows or what the hell's going on with that it's a cool cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like they leave an imprint his power leaves an imprint of them behind like they're completely obliterated from existence however this still exists like even the shadows of the cars not just over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I take this as it's
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in this reality, the worst thing happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe in the other reality where she drops them off of clock works, I don't think they got to that point where something like that happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't really know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we see what led up to her taking him deciding that he can't live with her anymore and taking him there unless I'm missing something.
[SPEAKER_05]: That was when he tried to... Oh, he tried to hang himself.
[SPEAKER_05]: He wanted to try to hang himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: but okay well that's bad but you know she just I think in all these realities she's had enough experiences with him to know that something like that could happen where he implodes a human being another human being
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because she said earlier before that scene, whenever, you know, because he's like, I don't want to take the pills anymore.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't want the pills.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm better.
[SPEAKER_05]: And she's like, you know, no, you have to because, you know, he hurt other people or me.
[SPEAKER_05]: So clearly something had to have happened to precipitate that for her to be scared enough that he needs to be very heavily medicated to kind of, almost keep him in like a zombie-fied state, you know, just kind of suppress his powers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that goes back to Clockwork Orange where they were trying to pacify the main guy on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you, I forgot, did you see that?
[SPEAKER_05]: I have seen clips because it's such a popular kind of movie and it's referenced a lot especially like with this but I've never actually watched the movie in its entirety.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean the whole thing about the treatment is to try and get him to not be a violent person anymore through showing forcing him to watch images and you get the idea that it's zombie him out kind of like these drugs are with David.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think he was a little bit between his pills during.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, point because she was calling him reminding like, hey, take your pill and maybe he hadn't taken them or hadn't had the reminder, maybe have been longer between.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what's your number?
[SPEAKER_01]: But two.
[SPEAKER_05]: Number two, gosh, we talked a lot about it already, but it was just the multiverse David's that we got to see.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we got to see how David lived his life if he had made other choices.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I just thought it was interesting because like for us, I mean, I think it's it's pretty normal in human for
[SPEAKER_05]: Most of us to think about certain things like, well, what if I had made this other decision, you know, when you get to like a crossroads and you have to make a decision in life and you think, well, what would have happened if I had chosen this path or that path?
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's, I think, interesting that we can, we can kind of think about it in for us.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a thought process, but for David, it becomes reality.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because of his power and his psychic ability.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I thought that was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I really like how we kind of got to piece together how all the different David's kind of came together.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because we know our David is the white shirt David, the white shirt with the stripes.
[SPEAKER_05]: We know that that's our, you know, current David that we have, the coffee David.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I would assume I think it's a safe assumption, but I could be wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think coffee David became billionaire David.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that seemed true.
[SPEAKER_05]: Completely overtaken by fruit.
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like he's not so much David anymore as he is, you know, the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_05]: In that universe, I think tweaker David is if Amy had never intervened and he became homeless David and then family man.
[SPEAKER_05]: David is like David without his powers if he took a misadvice and was able to repress his powers and live in normal life.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think milkbox David became old David when she agreed not to take him to Clockworks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, oh, so even after that incident happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, because if you notice like when he was shot in that scene, the old bald David, who's completely like just some just like incapacitate on him, he's paralyzed from that wound because he was shot in the back.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the old man David had that almost looked like that same scar when he was in the bathroom.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that that's, you know, she agreed not to take him to Clockworks in that.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what he became.
[SPEAKER_05]: The only one that I was kind of confused about was the pencil David.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not quite sure where he fits in somewhere in there, but it was still a fun little little thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I just like seeing all of that because I think David with his mutant powers, his capabilities, he feels and experiences things differently than what we do.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I just, I like seeing all of that and putting the pieces together and
[SPEAKER_05]: I, I know I was really confused at the beginning when it started and I feel like I started to kind of catch on a little bit but then I think it kind of helped us when we did have the scene in the diner where he's with the soggy fries.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of like, okay, now it's becoming a little bit more clear.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought I had it and then that helped clear it up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was good.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I just like seeing all of that and how it all played out and you know how it's so different for him than what it is for us.
[SPEAKER_05]: How it became a reality for him and I'm like you I think that all that happened for him in the moment just those moments after he found out Amy had died and he was freaking out there at Division three with Lenny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we sort of were having to guess it a lot of this because we don't even know for sure if David in Division III being sad about Amy experienced any of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it seems like he did because why have it in the episode if he didn't, but always saw us in crying, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we also don't know, I mean, the way alternate realities work, every one of those characters could be from a different branch, even the intern that looks like he turned into the billionaire, that could still be a billionaire from one timeline and an intern from another, or even the different times you saw the billionaire, that could be two different versions of the billionaire that just had slight one brush to teeth one morning and one didn't or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I feel like it was real for David.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like for us, it's a thought for David.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was reality.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I felt like he felt all of that was happening.
[SPEAKER_05]: He like he experienced it as if it was real.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: My number two is I like that we got to revisit some aspects of season one because season two has felt it's amazing but different.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not as crazy because David's not as crazy because he doesn't have the shadow king in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I also think that it's important to note to make note that a lot of the sadness just about all the sadness we've seen in this episode is because of the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_01]: who was a passenger inside David and fucking with him to make him crazy.
[SPEAKER_05]: So he was a baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that now that we see what he's like in season two without that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've been saying how much more together he seems now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the different, I think the main difference is the shadow king is not there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also he has Sid.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's got the support group.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got all the people from Summerland, Melanie's people and now division three.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think not having a shotgun in there is the biggest one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, Amy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But still even with all of that, he's still a little tweaky.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's still hearing voices in his head.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Future Sid seems to hint that maybe he's going to turn into this horrible villain.
[SPEAKER_01]: So and so that's another thing that seeing this episode remembering how skitso he can be and also how unstable with so much power that combination just makes me fear more for the future like oh we could he could relapse
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted to get back into a couple of things that we saw, so a fat bastard, it was great to see, that's what a rotten column, so I called that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great to see that incarnation of the Shadow King, because I didn't want all that stuff from season one to just be forgotten, now that they've gotten this great actor to play him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was cool to see David just so unconfident and unstable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so happy for him that he's not like that anymore, but it was kind of cool to revisit it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then to see the whole montage of his time at clock works and then going to summer land and you know meeting seed and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was like a kind of several pregnant scenes from season one from the beginning to the end of season one that led you were to where you are now in season two.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was great because I love season one so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I like when a show remembers it's history, because like when we were kids shows a lot of times something would happen one week and next week it would just be ignored.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd never reference it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they started remembering, like I know, sign-filled things would just keep going on for years on that show.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd make references.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for some reason, it just made me feel like, ah, this feels more like a real, like there's continuity there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's satisfying for some reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like when they go back in
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in walking dead when they mentioned Andrea or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, number one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Number one, so some cool stuff that we got from this.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I had to talk about the sad stuff and now I'm going to talk a little bit about the cool stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of short and sweet is I love that we got to see David's massive show of power.
[SPEAKER_05]: We talked about it in the tunnel and when he was homeless and he just completely obliterated those straight thugs, you know, and we got to see that I was like,
[SPEAKER_05]: Whoa, now we're getting ready to really kind of see the powers.
[SPEAKER_05]: You definitely get a sense of how powerful David is kind of in the middle end of season one.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you can kind of see what what he's capable of when he learns to kind of control and harness what he has.
[SPEAKER_05]: But we don't really get to see the true force of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think this, we're seeing glimpses of that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I just thought that was so great.
[SPEAKER_05]: You mentioned when, you know, he kind of folded that cop on himself and he just kind of like imploded.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was really gory for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't want to exploit violence or anything, but it was cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes you realize.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were his friend, you would not want to go up and say, ooh, or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: When he made all the cops disappear after he'd been shot, like I said, it winners is him and Amy that remained.
[SPEAKER_05]: He made the division three guys when they were cornering him at that park.
[SPEAKER_05]: They, you know, kind of flew through the air and then made them disappear.
[SPEAKER_05]: He had that force field.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like when they tried to shoot him with the taser, he kind of had that, you know, the taser just like bounced off, looked like the sports field.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, of course, I had the thought, when the guy yelled into his little radio, he's like, bring in the drone, and I'm like, well, shit, the drone had been the first option.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I'm like, it's like an old train.
[SPEAKER_01]: They always pull out the sword at the very end.
[SPEAKER_01]: They there's five lion robots and they form into this one big giant robot because there's like Godzilla like monsters that come and they fight it for a while and then at the very end they pull out the sword and cut it in half
[SPEAKER_01]: Just pull out the sword right away.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm like, so you know you're going up against a really powerful mutant and he's got he's got some stuff happening here and you know you still Just go in with with people.
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like the drone should have been the first option but anyway The dancing mouse.
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like we have to mention the dancing mouse that was just Fantastic and I love that they didn't like try to explain it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just is
[SPEAKER_01]: Later, we see him sniffing white out, so I don't know if you were trying to suggest that he's hallucinating.
[SPEAKER_05]: I never saw dancing mice whenever I was sniffing white out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe not.
[SPEAKER_05]: I should have been more of a boring job or something and just sat there and sniffed it all day, maybe I'd see dancing mice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was singing something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was singing slave to love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is a sad song about yearning and being stuck.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, he was.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was definitely stuck.
[SPEAKER_05]: He, I mean, just that whole scene was like depressing.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, of course, when we saw Carrie slice David in half, he talked about Gore, that was Gore.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, yeah, impact was awesome because he's older and she's not because she only ages when she comes out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a cool little touch.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, she, he didn't have very much defense against that.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and I think he was kind of off balance a little bit, because you could tell he was trying to harness his powers and do the same that he did before and just completely obliterate everyone, but I think that drone thing had really knocked him off balance, so he wasn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I think that took him off.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, of course, you talked already about the flashbacks to season one, which I really let it let that was super cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was the first time Carrie met David in that reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the extent of their relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Half a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, my number one is the different manifestations of David, which we've talked a lot about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me see if there's anything in here that we haven't talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tweaker David has meth skin when you are addicted to meth and fedamine, your skin gets all dry and itchy and you scratch it and then you get sourced.
[SPEAKER_05]: Faces of meth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I liked how he kept saying, and that branch makes branches, and that branch makes branches.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just had to keep saying that over and over again, like a tweaker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I get it, dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: What else?
[SPEAKER_01]: The most interesting one to me was this intern who helps his boss by reading the minds of the people she's trying to make a deal with.
[SPEAKER_01]: and how he convinces her he psychic by telling her what she was just thinking and then you think that she still thinks he's crazy but then she's all well what about that whatever it was that they were fucked up on those fires yeah so that was that was a great little sequence
[SPEAKER_01]: and then it was cool to see that yeah he turns into this billionaire asshole who's full of himself because he seemed in that moment when he was younger like just a nice guy kind of trying to mine his own business but he sees a chance to do something good so he takes it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I thought, oh, well, this is what it's like if he's a businessman and, you know, they say power corrupts.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then you see that he's looking, I think, in a mirror, I don't know, but you see the shadow king there, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe the billion, when he's billionaire David, who will make his sister have a nose bleed just to put her in her place that maybe he's just being controlled by the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think?
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought the same.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that he has allowed, you know, he's not free of the Shadow King.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he's kind of over time allowed the Shadow King to fully inhabit him and take over.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't believe that that was really David.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hardly any of David at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some, like a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a little bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it was mostly the Shadow King.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting, like he said to his former boss now assistant, God bless me with a gift.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you understand?
[SPEAKER_01]: I am his chosen vessel in the ancient days mankind built a tower so high to the threat and to touch the heaven and God cursed us with foreign language, misunderstanding and the inability to communicate.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I know it's in the heart of every man, woman, and child on the earth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gone is the confusion, the division, I, and the great unitor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your saint, sir, what she says, and he goes, the money is a tool.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see nothing more power because without power, who would listen?
[SPEAKER_01]: So he just sounds like a megalomaniac.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which makes me believe that he is the shadow king at that moment because that's how the shadow king sees himself.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is this, you know, this ultimate, you know, power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because we haven't really gotten to see what the shadow king would do if he was in full control out in the real world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he told David, I'll just go to South of France or whatever, have money and women.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's gonna live.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it almost seems like this isn't, I mean, he's a billionaire.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's seemed pretty clearly that he's probably unethically used his mind control and mind reading powers to get to that place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm, but we don't know if he's he hasn't like taken over the world or anything He's just gonna be the richest man in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know He's gonna beat Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna get pumped to like Jeff Bezos All right, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see those pictures of Jeff Bezos when he first started me just looks totally nerdy
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now he looks like his bodyguard.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got a stylist.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, David's been so erratic that I can almost believe he could become any one of these people that we saw.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like I think if you were I got to see one of our own, you know, like ten different alternate realities.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they would be all that different from one another, I who knows, maybe they would, but I think David has more of a possibility for them to be very different, just depending on what kind of help he got or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: With his progress.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, any notes?
[SPEAKER_05]: Just a few.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wondered if you made the connection or if it stood out to you at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've talked a little bit about Billionard David.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought he looked like Magneto and Old David looked like Professor X. Like when we first saw the kitchen and he's ball and I was like he looks like Professor X sitting there at that kitchen table and that Billionard David looked like Magneto with the full head of hair and like that silver that went through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: and his dance and his book on his face and everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it was kind of on purpose.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't do too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it was a little bit of a homage, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but you see, because the way he was talking that little snippet of dialogue that I just read, he sounds like he does think of himself as a hero.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you were saying about the shadowking that he thinks of himself as a good person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd been saying, you know, well, he just thinks of people as ants that he would just crush.
[SPEAKER_01]: but this kind of talk he's talking about himself as a uniter and that does seem more like Magneto in the comics and I think in the movies too where he thinks what he's doing well he's he's more about mutant rights but still he thinks he's doing some kind of a social good even though he's an arrogant jerk about it yeah I can see that
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep, I thought that was just pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, we've already talked about when you mentioned billionaire David speech.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was talking about the tower of Babel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's about his ability, I think, to read minds, transcendence, language.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if he's saying he's a uniteer, then maybe he's like connecting people's minds together that couldn't otherwise communicate or something like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, because the Tower of Babel, that's where, according to the story that, like, God like separated the people.
[SPEAKER_05]: And instead of having like the common language, that's when people were separated into separate parts of the world and where there were separate languages, the dominant features, like started to come out, like where people with different cultures have different features.
[SPEAKER_05]: So not everyone looks the same.
[SPEAKER_05]: We all look different now and speak different tongues, but he's like the uniter instead of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he unites that unites that's why I'm wondering is like how is he the matter because he can transcend language by maybe connecting people's minds together?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but it's interesting that often when the shadow king talks he starts speaking in different languages How does that relate to this?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know Yeah, it's cool when he does that
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe the idea of that is to say that it doesn't really matter what language he's speaking in because you will understand him because it's all telepathy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't need language when you're speaking to each other's minds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: For us we have close captions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my notes, I mean, the music was incredible.
[SPEAKER_05]: So perfect for this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're always so spot on, but this one was just amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was another two more songs that Noah Holly covered with Jeff Russo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who that is, but that's a music guide for this show and for Fargo.
[SPEAKER_01]: When there's a montage of homeless David the first one, and then you see David working at the dairy, and they played, I'd loved to change the world, just by a British man called ten years after.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's sort of the theme of this whole episode about changing the world or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there was slave to love that you mentioned by Ryan Ferrie that the little mouse ain't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, at the end, when David goes to Clockworks, and you see all of that, and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll,
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they really knocked it out with it that and they just added to the sadness like I said it they there was definitely dialogue but not that much and so much I thought this episode was for the visuals in the music they just added to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You didn't need the words.
[SPEAKER_01]: then the only other note I had is I thought it was funny when she told me to take his pills and he sticks it and his mouth and choose it up and I'm like what why are you doing that and then he goes it's bitter drink it with water I didn't let that go by without any comment
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it just kind of shows how zoned out he is because you can kind of see how that image and like I talk about the visuals in this episode I mean every episode is fantastic but really this episode I feel like it represents so much without saying anything as you see all those boxes those dairy boxes and he's standing in front of and they're centered but he's off center and I feel like that's a good representation of where he's at in this in this universe how he's off center to everything else so I just I was also bored as hell
[SPEAKER_01]: How was your work today?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm stacking boxes all day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a job.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like there's really no no variation to my day.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm stacking boxes on drugs.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, first article that we have this week is from Entertainment Weekly, so a little bit of
[SPEAKER_05]: Bad news in regards to Fargo, which is another show Noahali is the showrunner and creator of.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's some strong new evidence that Fargo isn't coming back until twenty twenty.
[SPEAKER_05]: You may have previously read that creator Noahali has said season four won't start shooting until twenty nineteen and that returning that same year was a long shot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, executive producer Warren Littlefield is giving us a little bit more detail.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is Fargo one, one start shooting until the fall of twenty nineteen.
[SPEAKER_05]: He said, well, it's technically possible.
[SPEAKER_05]: FX could try to jam the new episodes out in December at earliest.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a rather safe bet that they acclaimed crime drama won't air until the next year, most likely in April, which is when FX debuted to previous seasons of the show.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have here and we have a city that season four takes place in.
[SPEAKER_05]: Little field says the plan would be to go into production and start shooting in the fall of twenty nineteen.
[SPEAKER_05]: Noah has a lot on his plate.
[SPEAKER_05]: Noah knows when it is and where it is and he'll commence writing that after he shoots his feature with Fox search like the summer.
[SPEAKER_05]: So when the fall he'll begin writing and with Fargo we generally have most of the scripts written before we go into production.
[SPEAKER_05]: That new feature that Holly is working on is pale blue dot, which is the sci-fi film about a female astronaut who returns to Earth from a mission in space and begins to slowly unravel and lose touch with reality.
[SPEAKER_05]: Gosh, that sounds familiar.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess no Holly's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: and just comes back to that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he writes what he knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: For Fargo, I'm just happy it's coming back because he had said, well, I don't have a story for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see if I get a good story, then we'll do another season.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was several months ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now I guess he figured it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's great show.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys aren't watching it and you really like the style of Legion and you like the writing and the deliberate style and if you liked the Fargo movie, you're gonna love this show.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Noah Hawley is amazing as a writer.
[SPEAKER_05]: This episode that we just talked about was penned solely by Noah Hawley, by the way.
[SPEAKER_05]: Next one comes from the Los Angeles time.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the episode that we saw here, not all of it, but the scene where home was David, where division three comes after him was filmed in Grand Park.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is just a few snippets of some quick interviews with Noah Hawley and Diane Stevens about this particular scene that they were filming.
[SPEAKER_05]: Holly says there's now what five hundred shows on the air.
[SPEAKER_05]: He said so many of them have gotten so good at doing all the things that traditional great storytelling does, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: He said, I guess my feeling was if it's not just about creating an emotional arc that rides along a predictable rail, what happens if we take this roller coaster off the rail?
[SPEAKER_05]: Dan Steven says it was amazing how few people battered an eyelid talking about shooting that day.
[SPEAKER_05]: He says this crazed man shuffling along the streets barking.
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to go far in this town to see that anyways.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was interesting to step out and see how much of the weirdness of our show is not all that foreign.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they talked a little bit in this article also about how the show moved from Vancouver to now their shooting NLA.
[SPEAKER_05]: So Noah Holly says, you have the paradigm of a place that is a paradise, but it's also a desert at the same time.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's just a lot of impossible things about the city that are interesting to explore.
[SPEAKER_05]: Holly credits podcasts like radio lab as inspiration for the season's instructional interludes explaining a few mental health concepts.
[SPEAKER_05]: He says the X-Men were originally called the N-Canny X-Men and N-Canny is such a specific word that refers to a certain kind of horror you feel when familiar things act in unfamiliar ways.
[SPEAKER_05]: A haunted house story is terrifying because your house isn't supposed to do that and what's really unsettling about people frozen with their teeth chattering is it's not what people are supposed to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: So rather than having to work hard to create some kind of hard that's a lot bigger often it's those simple elements.
[SPEAKER_05]: He goes on to say, if season one is a story of an insane man in a sane world, maybe season two, now we realize David is sane, but maybe the world has gone crazy on him.
[SPEAKER_05]: That a society can succumb to an idea and become someplace we're just a few years ago, if you looked forward to see where we were, it would seem insane.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yet somehow we get these moments in history where what is considered normal, suddenly becomes very abnormal.
[SPEAKER_05]: He says that that's a topical subject that wasn't necessarily on purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that now that David is a little more stable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this series goes on for more seasons, which I hope it does, I bet she's not going to be stable.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be more insane again in future seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_05]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_05]: At least I have a mobile phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: You really?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm excited too.
[SPEAKER_05]: I, well, I think he's, I don't know that he's completely sane.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think there's still a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little, but I mean, I think he's going to be whacked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we keep talking about all these multiple personalities, where he's got like multiple personality disorder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet you it's going to be something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it'll be more unsettling.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more unsettling when he's more unstable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely, which is good in some ways, but I kind of enjoying the calmness of this season in a weird way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now that comes with him being more stable.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess he's more stable and he's more calm.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just not sure everything around him is calm like they say that the whole teeth chattering thing was very unsettling.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't like that at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's like for me it's like if you're out in the woods alone it's scarier but if you have your friend with you and it's not and the season of Legion with him being calm it feels more like I have a friend with me if that's it's kind of weird to say but you know no matter what how scary it gets he's the core of it and he's relatively stable so it just feels calmer yes and I think that is probably temporary
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, part of me's glad about that, but the other six personalities are freaked out.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just want to see him be the best David and reach his full potential.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not my be a scary version.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: He may make the shadow king look like Ronald McDonald or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned earlier about Holly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Noah Holly having written this last episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he wrote every episode of Fargo Season One.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was insane back then.
[SPEAKER_05]: Super cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't think he's even got time for that anymore.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean he's he's always writing all of these episodes, but it's so he's always like sharing card.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was someone I think this one he penned on his own.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how he gets out of bed in the morning.
[SPEAKER_05]: One one more article is from fandom.com
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is just some tips from one of Legion's directors on how to decode these shows complicated scripts.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you find yourself frequently lost, be assured you're not alone.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's confusing nature isn't lost on series director Tim Millions, who benefits from the intervention of series creator Noah Hawley and the show's co-writers to shed light on what's going on in the script.
[SPEAKER_05]: So here's his top five tips.
[SPEAKER_05]: Number one, know that it's character driven.
[SPEAKER_05]: The character is always at the center of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: What are they feeling?
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the relationship?
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the central feeling of it all he says?
[SPEAKER_05]: I know where the show's going.
[SPEAKER_05]: He adds, I know what's going to happen with main characters David and Sid.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I know these two characters are at the center of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You'll always feel emotionally engaged with these characters as the show progresses.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's going to be important.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know that's what the story is about.
[SPEAKER_05]: About them and about Sid and about identity, about all these different things that they really connect with an audience.
[SPEAKER_05]: Tip number two, think of it as poetry.
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't always have to make sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like to see Legion as an experience where you don't necessarily have to understand everything he says.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like something hypnotic, so approaching everything from a rational point of view isn't necessarily the experience we're going for.
[SPEAKER_05]: Tip number three, the showrunner hires directors who bring personality.
[SPEAKER_05]: He says no it pushes you to put your own personality into it and give your own point of view.
[SPEAKER_05]: He says because he likes to have a subjective point of view from the director and approaching the material.
[SPEAKER_05]: Number four,
[SPEAKER_05]: Put the Marvel comics aside and watch Buneil films.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not familiar with that director, but Millions says B-U-N-U-E-L He says from a personal point of view, I'm a director who loves surreal cinema.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a big Buneil fan and I'm a guy who really loves European surrealism.
[SPEAKER_05]: When Noah asked me to do this show, I told him I have no Marvel experience.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know nothing about comic worlds.
[SPEAKER_05]: He said, I just like the crossover from surrealism to the American world, and that's all very interesting this exploration.
[SPEAKER_05]: Tip number five, he says, Jen up on the works of David Lynch.
[SPEAKER_05]: He says, I'm a kid from the eighties, so you can't be indifferent from watching David Lynch's work.
[SPEAKER_05]: It sticks with you forever.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's there always, whatever I do, and I know it's the same for Noah.
[SPEAKER_05]: He loves David Lynch.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if that helps bring you some peace, let's bring on the next episode and to make some sense of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love all of that, and I think this show actually makes more sense, probably than David Lynch, and I bet you're booniel too.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because it feels like they have all these qualities of surrealism and unreliable narration and stuff, but like I've said before, but I feel like there is, like, they do know what's going on the writers, even if they don't make it totally clear sometimes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, I love all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I totally think it's very poetic.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Time for mental notes, which is our new name for listener feedback.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we got a whole bunch of email this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: We only got one comment on Facebook for this week's episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's by Rory Thompson says my brain hurts.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's pretty much what I say after every episode I watch.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm with you, Rory.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, first email we have is from Abby Helmianat.
[SPEAKER_05]: She says, Hey guys, this is my first time emailing in on an episode the same week that it airs.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have two quick takeaways from chapter fourteen.
[SPEAKER_05]: I couldn't help notice that in every single scene that Amy was in this week, she was wearing green.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have been told that green means stop.
[SPEAKER_05]: So after hearing Faru get the end of the episode say, you decide what is real and what is not.
[SPEAKER_05]: What are we to believe about any of the episode or of Amy?
[SPEAKER_05]: Does her wearing green mean that we stop believing what we've been shown about her?
[SPEAKER_05]: Does it symbolize that she no longer exists?
[SPEAKER_05]: Wait too much green for it not to mean something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it hasn't, she, this show always has worked in color palette since the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in clock works, there's a lot of yellow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think with her, there's a lot of like blue green and green, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Seems like it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, season one season back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to know for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is hard to know for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that there could be something there specifically.
[SPEAKER_01]: My guess would be, yeah, that green means stop and that means this is the end of Amy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sad to think about.
[SPEAKER_05]: But very good observation by the way, because I don't even have a cup on that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So very good observation, Abby.
[SPEAKER_05]: Second thing she mentions, she says, I had mentioned in my email last week about Sid's black two two get up in the igloo in the chapter, twelve episode resembling that of a baby chick.
[SPEAKER_05]: You didn't mention on the podcast when you read my email, totally fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I'm going to bring it up again because in the next week on segment after the credits, it shows Sid saying what's happening to me and on her forehead is a shadowy figure of that tar check.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but I think I might be onto something.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't my favorite of the season so far, but I know you'll have worthy analysis.
[SPEAKER_05]: Have a great week.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, high praise.
[SPEAKER_05]: She thinks we're going to have worthy analysis.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, did we, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's per, that's per the list we should decide.
[SPEAKER_05]: I had a good time with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the last about Sid's black two two get up in the igloo resembling that of the baby chick and her saying what's going on next week with the shadow you figure with the tar chick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that tar chick just symbolizes that things are delusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: It symbolizes delusion.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I just still don't know what to think about future Sid or Sid herself.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just, I don't know to think about anyone at this point.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to trust Sid because I love her.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what do you mean you don't know what to think about Sid herself?
[SPEAKER_05]: I, I just don't know, like, is she trustworthy?
[SPEAKER_05]: Can we trust her?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I said her current said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you trust current Sid?
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't say I didn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know whether I should.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen me in the reason not to trust her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess you can't tell for sure about anything on the show.
[SPEAKER_05]: But stirring me off balance.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what to believe anymore.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think one thing they show me something else did question my reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: That little chick has shown up at petonomies, and I think it walked into David's room at one point, and now you're saying that you might see little bits of it with Sid.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if this is building to something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that part of showing it is just to make us doubt what we're seeing, because we've been taught that it symbolizes corruption of an idea to the point of delusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: So every time we see that, we're like, what's really going on here, it makes us doubt.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like we're the ones going crazy around David.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what the show does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, some people who are told to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like you had a watch a show and they watch one or two episodes and they're like, I didn't know what was going on and it made me feel kind of crazy and I'm like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you got it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the best feeling ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I say, if you're watching season one and you'll have a better idea of what's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you'll be screwed all up again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Catherine in Seattle says, I know last time I wrote to you about sound, this time it's color.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything in the show is one of three color palettes, blue and green, brown and orange, or black white gray.
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, the law firm is all gray.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dairy and Amy is all green.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy suburbs, David is all blue.
[SPEAKER_01]: Homeless David is brown and orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so is everyone else he meets.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, I don't know what it means, but I think it definitely means something.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just this episode either.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been all season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last episode, for example, Amy's desert shack with the wind turbine was all in brown and orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Amy was in a bright blue and green dress.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the episode in Sid's inner landscape, the museum was all in brown and orange, and the kissing couple was in blue and green, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel I have thoughts I love to hear them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were doing that last season too, and I think that because the show, one of the core values of the show is to have super cool visuals that could just be as simple as
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's have cool visuals and they tend to the same people have the same palette.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like I do think that Amy tends to have blue green stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, beyond that, I don't know if it means anything or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think we could come to any definitive conclusion on that about that either unless one of the creators said something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it's cool to notice, and it could mean something or it may not.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this show definitely does play a lot with color palettes.
[SPEAKER_05]: We saw a lot of the, when they in season one in clock works, everything was kind of the yellows, oranges and browns.
[SPEAKER_05]: Amy did stick to a lot of blue and green palettes in season one with her dresses and such.
[SPEAKER_05]: Melanie, I think we're a lot of white in season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the seed has like yellows, doesn't she kind of?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or just a lot of black black.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, she does feel a lot of black and and a few other colors, but a lot of black always the black gloves, which I'm going to find those somewhere.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you mind those money in those clothes, let me know.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I don't know if it means anything, but I do think that there's a purpose.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just there may not be any meaning behind it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't just count anything that anybody says because I think it's all worthwhile.
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, even if it's just to look cool, because they also, I think, go out of their way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we talked about this a little bit last season of not pinning it at anyone certain time.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't see people with iPhones.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels a little bit timeless or almost like it's a six-years but some stuff is current day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think the look of the show is just very deliberate to make it feel like it's own thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really in our world necessarily.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like Amy's old Volvo, they're at the end.
[SPEAKER_05]: That old blue Volvo.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: She looks like she's out of the sixties all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think with her hair styles and everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and sometimes Sid does too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or at least in season one, she did a lot more.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe not as much season one, but a lot of her outfits and some of her hairstyle skirts and things.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_05]: Love it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Next email is from Jared.
[SPEAKER_05]: A couple weeks ago, you talked about how the previous significance of Legion as a story's title has not been implemented.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have yet to see David's consciousness expanded into several personalities each with different powers.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have an alternate hypothesis.
[SPEAKER_05]: What's Legion on Legion is the pop culture, mythology, art, et cetera, alluded to evoked and imitated throughout the series.
[SPEAKER_05]: In season two, Holly has continued with the plethora of references in hybrid of style, seeing throughout season one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Imitation and what is that word?
[SPEAKER_05]: Simulacrum.
[SPEAKER_05]: Simulacrum?
[SPEAKER_05]: Correct, they're fake on this show.
[SPEAKER_05]: When Holly enlisted Ellen Curris, the cinematographer of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, to dark chapter twelve, and episodes soaked in the same themes structure and techniques as the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved when I read that because that's the episode with Sidney, where he's exploring her psyche.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Eternal Sunshine and the Swatless Mind is one of my all-time top favorite movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they go into people's heads in that movie too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the cinematography is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when I found out that it was the same person, I just thought that was super cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And she was a perfect choice for that episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's for sure based on that episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: So definitely.
[SPEAKER_05]: Goes on to say, I could fill this email with a list of the movie's TV shows, myths, images, et cetera, that Legion has utilized, but that's not necessary.
[SPEAKER_05]: The show shares a name with the comic it's loosely based on, but pastiche would be just as appropriate a title.
[SPEAKER_05]: To paraphrase Frederick Jameson, one of the founders of postmodern theory, Legion wears the masks of all the cultural artifacts in the same way that fruit adopts personas.
[SPEAKER_05]: Holly pays tribute to his influences, but also uses this cultural mosaic to mirror David's schizophrenia, the schizophrenia of the media landscape.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for making the best Legion podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's definitely something to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, yeah, no, Holly loves this show because it lets him just kind of go nuts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not only is that doing these creatively imaginative things, but also bringing in his influences, like you mentioned, Hawker Orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: and comic books and just whatever else he's bringing into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, now that you mention it, that does sort of give a feeling of it being kind of schizophrenic, but in a way that really works like it all comes together and it feels like it fits even though it's from.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think any show kind of does that to a degree, the writers just take whatever their experiences is and bring it to the show, but these are very deliberate styles and omages and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: As far as it being called Legion because of that, I'm not sure I totally buy that because I still am holding out that we're going to get to see the actual multiple personalities gets a frenic David.
[SPEAKER_05]: Agreed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want that to be why it's called Legion.
[SPEAKER_05]: Same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Amy says, hello, I'm enjoying your Legion podcast and wanted to offer another interesting take on the show's use of Tom Petty's song over the kitchen table body snack scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where we're going to be killed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm turning her body morph into linies.
[SPEAKER_01]: As I already mentioned in the podcast during Amy's kitchen table scene, we hear a cover of Tom Petties don't come around here no more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anytime I hear this song, I immediately envision the music video, which accompanied at the time, which had an Alice in Wonderland motif.
[SPEAKER_01]: The climax of the music video is Alice's body on the Tea Party table transformed into a cake, which Tea Party goers actually eat.
[SPEAKER_01]: So much similar to Amy's body position in the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Coincidence or conspiracy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So making fun of my take on conspiracy theories.
[SPEAKER_01]: The video is truly trippy and worth of viewing if you haven't seen it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Alice and Wonderland theme also ties into the use of the song White Rabbit in chapter nine.
[SPEAKER_01]: More info is brought in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I totally, that video just is iconic and I know it very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the song.
[SPEAKER_01]: The video was kind of disturbing but fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we should, I can't believe we didn't mention that, but it totally fits in.
[SPEAKER_05]: oh my gosh there's because there's just it's so hard to keep up with so many references and I totally forgot about the video I mean the song I couldn't forget but I you know and I've seen the video because I am a child of MTV back in the day when when they were so popular but it just totally went over my head so I'm glad someone this is why we love hearing from people because they remind us of these things that we're looking
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think this is, now that you mentioned this, that's probably why they chose the song because of that video because it has a similar feel of just she's laying horizontal.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's being totally violated.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, really great video.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm, I'm a fan though, free fallen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love Tom Petty.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love Tom Petty.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's just amazing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, uh, next one is from Sheel.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hi Jason and Rima.
[SPEAKER_05]: I believe transforming David's sister's body into Lenny's was a test run for Ferook.
[SPEAKER_05]: He wanted to see how well it would work for his own purpose.
[SPEAKER_05]: When he finds his body, it will be uninhabitable, but taking a sample from his corpse and using the machine will give him back his body.
[SPEAKER_05]: My question is, who does Ferook want to use as the host?
[SPEAKER_05]: I have a guess.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I am.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm really enjoying this trippy mind-biting show as well as your podcast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Keep up the great work.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks!
[SPEAKER_01]: David, of course.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he once David's body and he was using it because he doesn't care about Lenny.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's made it be known that Frank doesn't care about Lenny and giving her freedom and letting her live.
[SPEAKER_05]: He wanted to steal that device, give it a test run, punish David, you know, really mess with David and also, you know, I think that's not his whole goal that I think it was a bonus for him and to say the word.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe this is how to get David to come to him or to come somewhere where he'll be vulnerable somehow, come to Oliver.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because we know we were told so even for Rook being just in his consciousness, like just being this floating consciousness and having other people's bodies, he's able to use these people's bodies and that helps make him powerful.
[SPEAKER_05]: Fikyami and those Vermilion said that if fruit gets to his body, he's gonna be even more powerful than what he is now because his powers also tied to his genetic mutation.
[SPEAKER_05]: If he got David's body with David's powers, I mean, he'd be unstoppable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, be all powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just wondering, okay, we wondered why would you piss off the guy who's already helping you?
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it's because he thinks that provoking David like that will draw him out to a vulnerable position.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, maybe because he said I'm coming for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but he said no as I was coming for you and then he said they're in flashed around to all these realities and cried But down we go we all cried with him Yeah, I know Ellie it says great work guy and gal enjoying the show in the podcast this season
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember if you mentioned this in the podcast already, if you haven't seen it, you should check out Aubrey Plaza's ASMR video.
[SPEAKER_01]: For the uninitiated ASMR are these videos where people make a bunch of scratching and other noises to elicit the tingles.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it personally, but some of the videos can be very creepy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ford to twenty seven minutes thirty seconds to hear Aubrey whisper about being on Legion for the most Legion experience possible turn off all the lights and turn the volume way up first so i'm gonna play that for you guys it's i think it's like four minutes long but i'm gonna play it is that okay oh boy yeah let's let's get creeped out should i turn the lights out it's not that creepy but let's see
[SPEAKER_00]: is called Lenny Cornflakes Busker and it was a very strange process for me to be on this show because the character was originally written for a man and when I first met with Noah Holy he
[SPEAKER_00]: I was on crutches at the time because I turned my ACL, playing basketball.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just said, what about the role of Lenny?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, the drug addict, middle-aged man in the mental institution.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I don't know, that seems weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: plenty by the end of the first season becomes the shadow king which is the villain of the show and I said sign me up that sounds fun so that's what I did I became a powerful evil mutant psychic villain
[SPEAKER_00]: However, in the second season, my character took a very sharp left turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: The shadow king has really questioned Lenny's body and moved on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what happens to Lenny?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very complicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, I think that wherever Lenny is floating on the astral plane in all the different dimensions of David Holler's memories, she's optimistic and is always hoping for the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's emotionally draining sometimes, physically exhausting because I'm being tortured a lot and used by this evil villain mutant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I forget that I'm in the marvel universe, but
[SPEAKER_00]: being on a marvel show because the audience really cares about the characters and they're really invested in the characters and that's really nice and it's really fun to have powers sometimes in the first season all I would do would be like something like this and someone would die
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you get tingles with that kind of stuff?
[SPEAKER_05]: Not with that one.
[SPEAKER_05]: I, that one didn't creep me out so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: I gave me the tingles, but I thought it was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: It sounded like one of those three AM random snap chats that you're doing as you're lying and bed in the dark or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I liked it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll put a link in the show notes if you guys want to hear it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a thirty minute long video and she eats corn flakes and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not really into that stuff, but I know some people are.
[SPEAKER_05]: We aim to please.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, that's our show episode fourteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to get in touch with us, you can email or send voice message at Legionatpodcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can find us on the web at facebook.com slash LegionPod.
[SPEAKER_01]: Be sure to check out our other shows at podcastica.com Westworld.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my gosh, we need to be watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, that's our show.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next week.