[SPEAKER_04]: Where are you been, Little Bird?
[SPEAKER_00]: How's one to us?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you aren't in it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What was in the airplane?
[SPEAKER_00]: You scared?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You fly first-class?
[SPEAKER_00]: They warm your nuts?
[UNKNOWN]: Whoop!
[SPEAKER_00]: Focus, asshole.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm asking about the temperature of your nuts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I just set the drugs now?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast, I'm Jason.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Rima.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm A-ron.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, Ron, and this is Legion podcast episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, twenty one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back, Ron.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for agreeing to come back and do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me back.
[SPEAKER_02]: I so thoroughly enjoyed Legion season two.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kicked myself the whole time for not not being on on all the cast.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I am glad to be back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's too bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks like season three's not going to be as good, but still.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's the it's the closer I'd say that only half in just I think it's still it's great, but it does feel like oh we're at act three of a tragedy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, it's good as it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna be a bit of a downer.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not gonna be as much fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see Yeah, we'll just give us a little bit more about what you did think of season two since you weren't on
[SPEAKER_02]: um it was really like I so if you recall the early coverage we had you know back when we did it in season one like I was continually worried about the way they used visual metaphor and that they would do that in ways that would like you know confuse or make a puzzle or mystery seem more interesting than it is and gimmicky but
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and season two is where I kind of relaxed and like, okay, they're like, there's so many faint like I was listening to your guys' podcast and Rima's talking about how squirrel they hooked him and his like teacup spinning like a Warner Brothers cartoon and a mic.
[SPEAKER_02]: but it's like so much of the show it's like I don't think they literally had a hook to hook him I think it's like supposed to describe some kind of psychic thing that's happening some of these but I don't know because they like I thought for sure that the mad tea had her thing this episode was happening in some kind of astral plane
[SPEAKER_02]: and then they show up in many vans and stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like the way they keep blending that, I think it's kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't feel like they ever use it to screw me with me or screw with my understanding of what there's there's like two things happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's what's literally happening and there's what's metaphorically happening and I don't think they ever play false with the metaphor.
[SPEAKER_02]: So season two is just allowed me the relax and just enjoy like it's not as it's like, how do you portray a psychic battle?
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do it as a dance off.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do it as this crazy six sixty second sell animation of Falcons turning into eagles turning into snakes turning into m one Abram tanks and like it's just it's it's you can have a guy turning to super computer and sell it just by having be in a aluminum box with a fan going in the background like
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know what it looks like to download someone's consciousness into an android, but I know what it looks like on Legion.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you kind of just like just go with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, there is that sort of line between the metaphorical representation of things that are happening in the mind and what's literal.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then I think there's this third element to Legion that's almost like, you know, kind of like watching a musical.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now people don't break out into song ever, but when you're watching a musical they do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you're watching Legion, you see hooks pulling people off the side of the screen.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like a whimsy that you kind of... The magical realism.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the fact that I was impressed with that that they had what seemed like last year and what they're paying off this year, the go-nads to make their main protagonist into a villain.
[SPEAKER_02]: They feel like they're really going that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's in a way that he's not entirely unsympathetic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, I really enjoyed your guys' nature of the discussion of good versus bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I felt like this episode, with like division three, just straight up torturing, like a mentally ill addicted person, just kind of shows.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that they get the shadow king working is like, there's no angels in that side, but you know, David.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny, because like I just had, I just listened to spot guests like an hour ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Jason's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that the shadow king ultimately has screwed David up.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also think that like what some of the stuff that Rima said that like this should had her king might have maneuvered him into that situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he did make the choice to violate her mental and physical space.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the shadow king did not make him do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's where like and you know the whole like our people good people bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think good people can do bad things and they can do bad things long enough to become bad people.
[SPEAKER_03]: But here's the other thing is, um, and this kind of goes into my discussion about the episode a little bit, but you're bringing it up that, um, the shadow king, another thing the shadow king did was inhabit David's mind since birth and fuck with him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it really fucked him up mentally.
[SPEAKER_03]: and yet you can't I mean that happens to people in the real world to you have a bad childhood your parents aren't available in it makes you you know unstable or whatever it is but you still got to take responsibility for your actions so it just makes you court sort of
[SPEAKER_03]: examine all this through that lens, except with a little mute and flare at it in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's actually an interesting idea for David to go back in time and make it so the shadow king doesn't inhabit his body.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's to me that's sort of analogous to how in therapy you'll
[SPEAKER_03]: get coached to close your eyes and talk to your inner child that wasn't nurtured and you try to do that nurturing retroactively only he's actually going to get to go back in time and do it and then we'll get to see what kind of a monster he really is without the shadow king's influence even is my guess right what you might even it might be worse I
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think the shadow king like like Rima saying like he's just straight up.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like old school evil.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's had a thousand years to work on his craft and decide what he's going to be a good person, the bad person, and he's decided.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like what do you think the odds are before we get too deep in this?
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think the odds are?
[SPEAKER_02]: The David actually does turn it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's kind of like what in breaking bad like Jesse's arc when he went to the therapy and he talks about all the bad things he's done and he's done a lot of bad things but at that point in the series and the therapist is like, well, you got to figure out a way to forgive yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like they're, you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only way to recover and like continue is to like hold yourself in a high regard to keep you from spiraling into these shame cycles and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that doesn't mean that Sid's going to forgive you or the world's going to think you're a good person or it's like that's kind of like there's certain amount of crosses you're always going to have to bear because of the road you've gone down.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of interesting things that they're doing
[SPEAKER_02]: about psychology and addiction and mental illness and a lot of different things in the margins I think is really neat and I just don't know where it's going to end up because I can see a world where David is still a hero but he's lost everything because of his sins which seems fair enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's to be a tragedy.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really does feel like we should have a psychologist on this podcast and offer a hotline afterwards for people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's get into our, you know, our top three, but first just in general, let me start with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: What did you think of the episode in general?
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a really great episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think it was as straight as a narrative as the first episode was because I thought even though it was had great visuals, it wasn't as like confusing or hard to follow.
[SPEAKER_01]: This one was kind of mixed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I everyone made a good point earlier how they're kind of crossing a little bit of like what's
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, are we in the astral plane?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this really happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when we have the scene, you know, the Manhattan or scene?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like, is that a real place?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that like an astral plane kind of metaphysical kind of thing happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they crossing boundaries a little bit here?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was kind of like where are we in this whole thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I thought it was really great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm glad that we had David and Sidney kind of finally kind of coming together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, face to face and having, yeah, kind of face to face, you know, David's projection of himself, but you know, at least having that conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there were a lot of great things about this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's still holding strong so far.
[SPEAKER_03]: What about you, everyone?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just briefly what?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's up then, Sam.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a great episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a notch or two below last episode, but there's like, there's the rhythm of these seasons where you've got the big, you know, things are really executing and humming, and then once you get all that, once you have so much stuff happening, you have to take a step back, take a breather, rearrange the deck chairs, reset the pieces on the chessboard, and that takes time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not always the most interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought also the
[SPEAKER_02]: Visual storytelling was a notch below.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's hard to not be because last episode introduced the drug-addled pig with the teeth and the dancing coat racks.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, just was so next level out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was some good stuff too, but there was things I thought that were just a little bit not as tight.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's still a great episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I imagine that it's going to serve up a set up for, because this is pretty short season.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only like, it could say, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, you know, I think that the pacing's got a nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, to me, it was a bit too much like a follow on of last week.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did enjoy it a lot, but the high highs of season two for me were the episode exploring Sid's past, where he tried to figure her out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the one with all the different timelines, different versions of David.
[SPEAKER_03]: Multiverse David man.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just so floored by those and this to me this kind of an episode doesn't really compare and yet it's still great and better than most anything I'm watching so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I liked it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, let's get into our top three.
[SPEAKER_03]: Remember what you number three?
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to talk a little bit about the gender theme that we seem to be getting so far in episode, or sorry, season three.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're only on the second episode, so I don't know if this will be a continuation throughout the entire season or not, but I'm seeing it just at least in the first two episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking of the scene when David can't go into that time hallway with Switch and the shadow king alluded to in the first episode on time travelers are always women.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm wondering if that has something to do with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why he can't go in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know he's thinking, well, we'll just boost her power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thinking that Carrie can do something to kind of boost her power and that will help get David there, but maybe does that have something to do with it?
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe Carrie should give David a sex change instead.
[SPEAKER_01]: didn't go there.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not exactly what I'm thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then we had also, you know, shadow king was playing Otana bomb to a bunch of drag queens.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we had Carrie and Carrie in the mirror and they had switched like clothes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Female Carrie was wearing like the suit and Carrie the male was wearing like what she would wear like her battle gear.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just, I feel like we're getting a little bit so far like the themes about gender and the constructs and limitations that kind of come with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had the scene with Sidney and David when she quotes the men worry about women laughing at them and women worry about men killing them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he got, have you ever, no, that's awful.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what did you say right after?
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to take you down or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Holly himself has said that the season is about David's journey is about toxic masculinity.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just feel like we're getting a lot of like gender themes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just thought that was kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to just kind of keep coming up at least in the first two episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just thought that was interesting and curious what you guys thought of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I'm like way off, base or if you see that too.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think, I mean, I actually didn't pick up the connection about the shadow king saying in most time travelers are women and David's inability despite his power level to cross that threshold.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really good point now.
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned that like there's a scene of all the different drag, were those all drag queens?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I thought that as the camera pulled out there was actually, to me it was almost like this is every size and shape and projection of a woman that there can be.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know, I might not have caught the nuance on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, they all look like drag queens, but I might have missed something too.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's definitely the first couple.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I, yeah, no, I think that's that's that's right on and a lot of my favorite parts of the episode where these like dialogue set pieces, like Sid versus David, Sid versus Furuk, and that's all, you know, like like that quote is actually from Margaret.
[SPEAKER_02]: That would yeah, it is the writer of the handmade sale mm-hmm, so you know, which is a told about female pain and yeah, that's it's it's it's I thought it's a great insight
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just makes me think of how there's these questions about whether David is actually a villain or misunderstood or somewhere in between.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the thing that he's doing that just seems totally wrong to me, clearly wrong, is cavalierly manipulating people's minds.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he does it with Lenny and he does it with Carrie.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that feels like it could be a comment on toxic masculinity.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now that you bring it up like just kind of pushing on people and trying to force things and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Since you brought it up, the whole fruit thing, he's sitting there playing Vince Garaldi.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Charlie Brown music, which is sort of an echo of them coming into the episode with some Charlie Brown lyrics in the sitting yearning.
[SPEAKER_03]: He said, how does it go?
[SPEAKER_03]: At lunch, you sit alone and mope, you're a wishy-washy kind of dope.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like he's hoping that the girl won't notice him and it's like, no, Charlie Brown never wins.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry David.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, this whole fruit scene is like I felt like it was the writers because he's in this he's playing piano he's in this smokey black and white stylish lounge with all these nineteen twenties models hanging around stylish everything and I feel like the writers were just like what is fruit due during his downtime and then they just created this whole scene around that I guess I don't know
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what it felt like.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a meditation of the mind or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was just kind of caught up in his mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this show is really good when they have limitations or what could be roadblocks that making something cool out of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, the whole thing about this guy's squirrel who they're trying to get information out of him and they end up dropping out of the plane.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's going back down in.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my good job.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then instead of showing him falling and deploying the shoot, which would cost money, I don't know if this was because of the money, but maybe instead you have this guy Clark go, oh yeah, shoot, and he walks down the hall, and a pair of shoes is like, oh, they didn't really prepare for this very meticulously, and then carries like
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, yeah, and then he's like, oh, I think it was too late.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, he's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: It just takes instead of having to pay the money to show that, which would be kind of cool, I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: They just make a little funny thing out of it, say a lot of money, and make it better than it would have been.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I admire the show for being able to do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Aron, what's your number three?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like two of my threes of bullet points of murder in this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because like so like again, I think the two highlights were the Sid versus David, where she like really holds him account, you know, it's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the thing she said about him not seeing her, and you never did, and that he, uh, and then she's like, especially you as a telepath, and then he tried to, I, uh, telepathically project how he did see her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she slammed the door shut on it, and I, and I think it's because I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, I'd like to see what your opinion is on this Rima, but to me, it felt like, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: If I were a woman and someone did that to me and they were showing this imagery, it would almost feel more like the male gaze than like, oh, love.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_02]: When he saw her, he still saw her as an object at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: He didn't know her or anything about her.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought that was really interesting and building on all the other stuff we said.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would love to talk about the tooth.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're willing to, let's hear what we need to say about that first about what you just said.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I took that at least coming from SIDS perspective and also just because, you know, it seems to be a thing and we see it in X-Men too, because there's, you know, mutants there that can mind read and
[SPEAKER_01]: It's supposed to be like a respectful thing to like ask permission.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not supposed to just like jump into someone's mind and to me that's kind of what David was doing with this was he's kind of forcing that thought into her head like, you know, let me show you that I was thinking about you and to her that's just another invasion that she already feels violated with what he did to her.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like if you're into something when they're talking like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: But to me, that's how I took it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she, you know, kind of goes into some more of my points as we go on, but I feel like Sid's motivations for her actions in the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think part of that plays into it as well that she's just, I don't know, I feel like it's a little betrayal of my gender to say something, but I feel she's a little scorned and she just doesn't want to think, I don't think want to have any compassion or humanized David anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's kind of on this path of, we have to stop you and I will kill you and she just wants to leave it at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't want to, you know, have that, like, their past and projected onto her.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I do see some vulnerability left or to me the way she looks at him is she's sad because she knows that there was something there, but she feels like it was probably all lie and so, you know, she has no choice but to do what she's doing now.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's still a recognition that there was something
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's I think that's an interesting dynamic because I think you're seeing like some people think that like love is like a state you achieve and then like you know if someone no longer loves them it's not because they don't love them it's just because they forgot and or they don't know what it feels like anymore or I'm just not saying the right words or just something interfering with it rather than like
[SPEAKER_02]: Nah, you screwed up, and it made you impossible for me to love.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the opposite, I guess, of that perspective, which is, once we're in love, well, we always have to be in love, and I'll always love you, is that, you know, not only are we not in love, but we never were.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was never real.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing was genuine.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you see both sides of that in, in Sid and David, and, you know, I think, you know, obviously David's mind sets, is mindset sets worse, but, and also the fact that Sid, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: I hear what you're saying about the woman scored in the dead of thing, but if she sincerely believes that he causes the end of the world on top of that, like it's one thing to hunt down your ex-boyfriend and kill him and splatters gets on the wall.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if he's actually going to bring about Armageddon, like so it's like, there's a lot of spice to that equation.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's this movie, uh, was it somewhere in time with Christopher Reeve?
[SPEAKER_03]: Was that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Christopher Reeve?
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the one that takes place on, uh, that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I remember about it is there's this penny that
[SPEAKER_03]: shows up at one point and then gets taken into the past and then someone finds it and puts it in their pocket and that's how it shows up.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you don't understand where the penny originated.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not explaining it right because it's been so long since I seen it, but you know how that can happen in time travel movies sometimes where
[SPEAKER_03]: something just appears out of thin air because you found it back in time and then gave it to yourself or something like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that I wonder if that could be something with David ending the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like somebody in the future, well, future Sid said, David ends the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so then in their efforts to stop him, they might create that reality, you know, make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
[SPEAKER_03]: because he's, you know, they become the force that he needs to react against.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then for whatever reason, that's the end result.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, who knows?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just conjecture, but it could be.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, where are we?
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to talk about the tooth?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, like, I, because I didn't get, I didn't get all your podcasts listened to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got like them, but I didn't get to, did you guys discuss the time travels to the last week?
[SPEAKER_03]: We were just saying that maybe there's a cost to her power and it takes a toll on her and the tooth losing a tooth ribbons and that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was thinking if it's some kind of breadcrum that she and like like if if if she's the season's protagonist and she's actually playing some longer con that involves you know because like again how do you how do you trap a person who can warn themselves?
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to somehow get the time travel or on your side.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if she's like drop and clues that are being used by the enemy to track.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like there's some kind of mind blowing reveal that she's been on the vision three side the whole time, but she couldn't say that because that would affect the timeline.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's going to be something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my prediction.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I was sure I would actually use an actual breadcrum rather than pulling my tongue.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, that's a hell of a sacrifice.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, a pigeon can go and pick a breadcrum.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think any animal eats meat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a pearl.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fact check me on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have any biology or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it my turn?
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you finished?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Aaron.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, since we already started talking about the breakup, I'll see if I have anything extra out about that because it's one of my points.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like how in Legion they show how having mutant powers affects every day things like, you know, with carries eating, you know, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: The first time she has to eat and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now we have this mutant post breakup complete with this post breakup argument where one person's actually a psychic projection and
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think though a lot of it really does compare.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we said that she doesn't trust him anymore because he's a mine controller.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have the question, well, now that we've seen how carefully he uses that, he could have been using it even just out of unconscious habit on her through their whole relationship in seasons one and two, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like subtly pushing her along.
[SPEAKER_03]: But still in real life, yeah, you kind of already said this Aeron, but in relationships when they end, especially when they end badly, often you go back and go, oh, now that I know what kind of person this really is, quote unquote, with this new perspective, I was fooling myself the whole time and you start noticing things that you never noticed.
[SPEAKER_03]: before just seeing them through a new lens.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it all seems like it's different than you thought it was during the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this really reflects real life in that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: This whole breakup scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and there's other thing that really stuck out was like when she said, yeah, I heard your, you know, running a cult and taking advantage of emotionally fragile young women or something like that, who's like, oh, jealous.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can see the mask slip.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you put it back and forth.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when he puts it on, it wasn't just, oh wait, I'm not fooling you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to, it was for himself too.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, no, no, wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't Taudry.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really is out.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's trying to convince himself as well as her, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we also later on, or throughout this episode, we see how he's mentally abusing one of his oldest friends, Lenny.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I get the impression that she's just completely messed up.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's almost shadowking levels of manipulating her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, even worse because it's not subtle at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he just doesn't get to have it up in your hunger.
[SPEAKER_03]: You go eat and like it's to me that I've seen that in that dynamic when the because relationships to me I look at as interest level if the interest level is about the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a healthy relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if one person is way more interested than they can tip over to where the other person just treats them like shit if they're going to stay in the relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're in a relationship of sorts.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's just totally like, I want your approval.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll do whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that makes him feel like, all right, I'll just, that means I can do anything I want with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like codependent.
[SPEAKER_03]: And where a healthy person would walk away from that or try to change it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what else about this now there's also the idea of David wanting to believe that he's a good person and deserves love and he doesn't and we hear all his inner voices fucking inner voices chastizing himself
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you're down on yourself and you don't feel like you deserve love, then it is hard to really love somebody else because you're mostly trying to ease your pain or feel this void or prove something to yourself so it becomes narcissistic.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think, you know, it's probably not a black or white thing, but I think that's what David is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I definitely think that's what Sid thinks David is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, no, it was never about me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was always about you just trying to prove that you're worthy of love.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was an object to satisfy that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's sad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it isn't looking more and more like there had a very immature, like especially on David's end, a very immature relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, but like I said, it's not black and white.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what I really still want to believe about this show and if it's, if this is true, whatever I want to say, I actually love it is that these things are so, the femoral or shifting, you know, like you want to pin it down.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like that's how mental health is.
[SPEAKER_03]: You just want to have something to grab onto and label it and make it one thing, but it can be shifting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, Rima.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my number two.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've talked a little bit about it already.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this episode kind of made me question SIDS motivations a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was curious after watching the scene with David and Sydney how much of her actions are actually driven from vengeance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that
[SPEAKER_01]: She's saying, you end the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why she feels that she has to stop him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she is so determined for like when Ferrique was trying to stop her last episode after he finds out that she has killed him twice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, the time traveler has been able to go back and correct that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he tries to stop her.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, maybe you should just stay back from the mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, stay here and she goes, no, it has to be me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm curious why if why she is the one that keeps killing him, she's one that keeps getting through, why she feels it has to be her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like she is a little bit focused on bandits.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's just, well, you did me wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to like do the ultimate just kill you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's
[SPEAKER_01]: Not what we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: We might feel like we want to do that to the guys that fuck us over, but I mean, no, we don't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it feels like she has more of a purpose in mind and that she is pretty pissed off about how much she wronged her.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what she talked about mostly during their conversation is how he wasn't able to accept responsibility for his actions and how he can't see her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She even has a tattoo that says me first.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that keeps getting focused on a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it feels like she makes it more about herself than just what David's going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is a part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think she believes that he's going to do this, but I think that that also helps motivate her to go after him as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I read some interesting commentary about that me first tattoo that said like if you observe what what arm sit eventually loses is the wrong that has the me on me yeah which is kind of like like you know in a in a universe where you know psychics can erase memories and stuff you wonder what kind of a ratio of self would would that represent you know
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's so there's going to be some really interesting things that come out of there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also think another explanation or something to think about is the Shadow King and I don't know how coy he's being because he's slippery as fuck.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he says that like your emotional intimacy with David is the thing that is going to allow us to sneak up on him and take him away.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if he has a literal blind spot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because in the midst of kicking so much ass last week, always in the center of the chest of shotgun.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he never sees it coming.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if it's like something where like, if the shadow king somehow threw to ask for a plane, aware of all these time manipulations and kind of kind of sense this?
[SPEAKER_02]: because that's where I feel like it's I think that it's not necessary she's all about killing David has to be the one to do it although I think there's that's certainly going on in a mind it's almost like she also because he has his blind spot towards her she's just got this kind of a natural advantage over him yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: It could even be the kind of a thing where if she's physically present somewhere and he has this extra sensory perception of everything around him, he might just even unconsciously ignore that because that's his love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what I had those thoughts to watching last week.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, it's always said that's able to get behind him somehow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's aware of his surroundings except for when it comes to Sid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a really good point that you made because, you know, he wouldn't have thought that it would be Sidney that would be the one.
[SPEAKER_01]: to pull that trigger and to be the one to take him out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says that to her in this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you without even a word, it was you, you know, that did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's got a blind spot when I get at least he did.
[SPEAKER_01]: He may not now.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's definitely been alerted to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's got probably his radar up on that now, but I think at the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: That does seem to be the plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, she didn't say no to it and then we didn't see anything else afterwards.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I assume that's going to be their plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I do have it because last week, you and I kind of disagreed about whether fruit wanted Sid to kill David.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I totally didn't hear you until I was editing, where you said that he already knew that Sid did because of his conversation in the astroplane with Switch.
[SPEAKER_03]: He knew that Sid killed David once.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's after that we saw him try to talk that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, oh, well, what is he doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he doesn't want David dead or not?
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause in this episode, he seems like he's actually trying to help
[SPEAKER_03]: said figure out how to get in there so it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's like I think that I think the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_02]: If anything, he just wants to be the one in his world right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like that's why it's like I thought that something that maybe something I heard on your guys's podcast, but like the idea that
[SPEAKER_02]: this this the shadow king would the idea that like the division three is just he doesn't have his crown of thorns on anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't seem to be on any restrictions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone implicitly trust him like an ally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like at no point in his dialogue was said that she just be like, you know what you're to fucking shadow king.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll be so disappointed if there's not if he doesn't turn off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think there's something to do if I don't know there's there there's It's just right in some kind of game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't think this makes I don't think this makes David a good guy because he's going to be an opposition of the shadow king, but I do think you got like you know the shadow king is almost an elemental force of evil like evil for the sake of evil and David you know was
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think everyone deserves love, but he has made a lot of terrible mistakes, especially against acid.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, like, like, remade you were just saying, it's not just that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that he refuses to even acknowledge the error of his way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the error is that Sid found out about it, not that he did it, or that was the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and he was like, I'll go back to time and erase it, but she's like, no, that's who you are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then like, you know, he's he's jumping in like, oh, you guys are trying to kill me.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, well, no, actually asshole, we tried to help contain and treat you in the intervention we staged last year, but you beast it out of it and said, forget this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's sometimes like, I think that there's a little bit of this, you know, woe was me thing with David where he's like, jumping like, how could you kill him?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, that's not what she wanted to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know, she also just wanted some time to like think about things and he raped her.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry to laugh at that, but yeah, I mean speaking of that, I mean not see in the moment, he knew that the shadow king got his claws into everybody and they were my release from his perspective.
[SPEAKER_03]: Their minds were now infected.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't say I wonder, hundred percent blame him for trying to take that out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like to change her mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're trying to, but then he should hold her afterwards.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: You were against me and I think it was because of the shadow king's manipulation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I took that out of your mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'll give you time to deal with that and figure out what we're going to do next.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's sleep together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's the whole I mean that's that's the kind of problem in the nutshell because like he was he's addicted to love like that's one of the things that they are did the they're making a point in this episode and he's like a junkie
[SPEAKER_02]: Wanting to get you know his his fix and she wasn't given it to in the most it's like he could give her time like hey, you know like the machado king messed with your head and there could be a lot of dialogue Maybe they could get taller me out of the computer to help like I mean there's a lot of things that could have taken a lot slower and she could have like you know built on the you know the trust and relationship that but he wanted to take the easy the easy
[SPEAKER_02]: easy way and it's like you know there's an experiments with the like addiction where they they get like a monkey addicted to cocaine and it that's just it's just it's a jaminous lever to get the cocaine it just like this hammer hammer hammer like if that's why he's like with love he's got no there's no way for him to to to take a step back and think again like you know like
[SPEAKER_02]: Sid is not a person she's a lever that he slaps to get love Yeah, and that's that's the the core problem the thing that he can't and that's why he's so fucked as he can't even understand what the problem is right and that's that's why loving yourself isn't antidote to all that because you don't have this pain It's a pain when you don't love yourself that you're trying to ease by getting it from somebody else and
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's so funny because the things that Sid says to him in their conversations are the inner monologue of anyone that's ever trying to recover from depression or drug addiction or anything that like you deserve this and you're a terrible person and everyone hates you and you can never undo the things
[SPEAKER_02]: like that's the that's the inner monologue that keeps you but it's a perfectly valid thing for Sid to be saying to him.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's as far as I hate for someone to listen to Sid and think like oh well yeah that's it like once I've done something bad regardless of what that bad thing is it's all over because that's not true but
[SPEAKER_03]: you know it's it's true from sits perspective yeah like yeah it's valid for her to be like I'm done with you but then yeah at the part about well now I'm going to kill you that's a sure about that I mean
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you know, like, the mutant thing makes it a lot more complicated.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it does, but it's also, it gives you a little distance to kind of like, it gives enough over other worldly distance to kind of like, what, how do we really feel about these things, you know, which I think is interesting framework to show successful uses.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is like, the show, I'm like, I'm gonna do a podcast about this mutant show and then it tricked me into like examining my own life and some
[SPEAKER_03]: That was my number two.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that means it's your turn.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any more A-Ride?
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... yet might number two is the cid vs. for rook confrontation and that i just gonna that i don't think there's anything we kind of missed but just the fact that uh... you know cids like well maybe we can get ahead of him and he's kind of coy about and he actually says something like all there's that's not any fun
[SPEAKER_02]: I think in a world where Sid is not under some kind of influence, she says, what the hell do you mean by that?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to stop Army getting here.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only reason you're free and not in a sell is because you're helping us defeat the bigger monster.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, just as a couple of things to tell, plus the sky to place for Rook is just...
[SPEAKER_02]: So good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the way he can do with the curl of one side of his lips and do that cool little half smile is amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think it's a little bit like the Howard Stern or Trump effect where
[SPEAKER_03]: The person says things that are out of bounds so much that you kind of get into it and just oh yeah, that's the shadow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, my number.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I would since since because I had a couple extras, I also want to say how much I loved.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is even part of the episode, but the pre-episode where they're going the previously on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most shows say previously on Legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: This was ostensibly on Legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do that last season too, but there's always this kind of like extra level of like, well, this is what it appears to be anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what apparently as far as we know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Allegedly on Legion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the show always has to be just a little bit extra.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm all in.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I told like I was talking to Jim last week about like last week when, you know, they had that mind blowing like David transported the whole Colette headquarters somewhere and then these robots are marching across the screen, smelling Legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, that's just no a Holly's, skating on the track, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what he's like, yeah, like yeah, you're going to watch these metal robot spell Legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to watch this fucking, uh, uh, a Wes Anderson airplane, uh, tug and a Legion thing behind.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's it's
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how they get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the show's really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how they get away with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, all things.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a context.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, damn, he's constantly challenging you to like, when you go to tap out, when you go to tap out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this crazy enough?
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's good that it's, this is the final season, because it's, it's full confidence with that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would like to see it start to feel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because who gives, like, this is the last season of people like around, like, who care if they're on the fence, get them off.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why I thought of this and I don't want to spend too much time on it, but I want to ask you, Aaron, did you watch Walking Dead Season Nine and would you think?
[SPEAKER_02]: I watched as much season nine to fulfill my obligation to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know I wanted to but like I'm just so damn busy and just to go like the recreation just out of curiosity see what they did with Rick or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I thought I might be a talk gym and to get back in and then.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, really.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because he was pretty intrigued by the way I was talking about the first four episodes I saw season nine Okay, are you are you are you still in Jason or you got a role in season nine?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know right Manos has it rated as the highest of any season.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know if I know that but that better than
[SPEAKER_02]: One, that's what it's related.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because one had like a tear like one really kind of bad episode about the mediocre episode and then like pretty for pretty solidly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like yeah, the pilot still won the best pilots have ever seen.
[SPEAKER_03]: There wasn't a bad episode in season nine.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean some people thought that the final one was because it was more like an epilogue, but um
[SPEAKER_03]: There wasn't.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't want to take too much time on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I also don't want to take too much time on my number or whatever because it was about whether David's a villain and I feel like we've talked that out.
[SPEAKER_03]: So remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my number one, the last line that we had was saved the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't get that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's part confused me the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, David's voice coming out of carry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't get that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't get that either.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm editing this out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it might hurt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I got it that he slapped a pair of like old-timey wireless headphones, which is seems like a slight upgrade to the time travelers headphones already.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's just like it's like he's he's he's drank from he's he's drank the cool aid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Literally.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Save the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: He no longer has a bind of his nights.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but but but you know it's what though Jason I would totally buy if they put David Haller's voice in there because I'd make perfect sense right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it would yeah, because he's essentially controlling him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, hi right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did then.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, now that you put it that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have to go back and watch, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to I can watch the episode three more times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I say I can watch it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw it three times and go for a fourth.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that good.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, you know, that's what David says he's going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to, he tells Sid, or sorry, no, he tells Switch, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, go back, keep the house from being haunted.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so important to understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about a girl.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about saving lives, starting with mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he thinks he's going to save the world and save lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then division three, of course, in Sydney and everyone is telling him he's going to be ending the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he thinks he's going to be doing the opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I don't know that I totally
[SPEAKER_01]: Believe David.
[SPEAKER_01]: will or does in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that he's like the most powerfully mutant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I certainly think he's capable of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think he made a really good point around, and I think Jason, you and I talked about it a little bit last season about it being like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe him being told this has kind of, it could make it true.
[SPEAKER_01]: It might still happen, but I don't know if I fully believe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's completely emotionally stunted.
[SPEAKER_01]: He thinks he's a good person.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't think he can be wrong or
[SPEAKER_01]: And he doesn't think that he deserves love.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm regardless of what he does.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't really think of him as a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's done bad things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he really needs to be able to take responsibility for his actions, which he seems really unable to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as long as he can't, he'll be stuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what Frank says as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Frank says that he's stuck because he sees himself as the victim.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if he feels like what we're getting, what Holly's trying to kind of show us is
[SPEAKER_01]: what we see with like in Jason, you mentioned earlier narcissism, you know, we get this perpetuation of abuse by victims of abuse and their thought processes of, you know, these abusers from our victims are like, you know, I might be bad, but well, I was abused.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you expect?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: People, there's still people, so they crave love, they crave acceptance.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when they need to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when those misdeeds are pointed out as being bad, they feel rejected.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, I think, where David's at right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And instead of trying to look at that, they deflect it when he keeps telling himself, I'm a good person.
[SPEAKER_01]: I deserve to be loved.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just shows how hard it can be to kind of break through.
[SPEAKER_01]: That so but I don't know I just I feel like you know the sources that we're getting you know telling or saying you know saying that David's gonna end the world It's this future Sid which I don't even know that we can trust her and where's that coming from and Is that trust worthy it's just I don't know I just don't know if I can fully believe that but they believe it So that's why they're after David and maybe they believe it and they're coming after him and that then could then result in him really destroying the world I don't know but it's I don't know I'm interested to see what you guys think
[SPEAKER_03]: They're a violent organization for one thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like they're either they always have second answer to any problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like division three's a little kinder jitter last season, but that is on that is out the door now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, they didn't even care that much about squirrel when they're they just release him from this play and they're like hey, where's you?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's her shoot
[SPEAKER_02]: That is classified by the United Nations as torture to simulate an execution like that is straight up torture.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're torturing a mentally ill drug addict.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fun to watch that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, yeah, a lot of times like, you know, uh, fucking Tony soprano and uh, Don Draper and Prince Joffer.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're all fun to watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I like how you equate Don Draper with Joffrey.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a new one, but I like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: So just one thing you made me think of is you know David like he's coming off so skittish and and I mean he's supposed to be this cult leader but one kind of flaw I feel like is I think cult leaders actually especially when they're first getting started they really do have strong beliefs
[SPEAKER_03]: And David is very shaky.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has a very thin veneer there that breaks pretty easily.
[SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, he's so skittish and he has these critical inner voices.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so anything he's doing, I'm sort of questioning, but when I really thought about it, I thought, yeah, if you actually have the ability to go back and try to prevent the shadow king from infecting yourself when you were born,
[SPEAKER_03]: Hell yeah, do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it would be worthwhile to see what would happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then his next thing is, yeah, you know, then I'm just gonna fix everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that really seems like a recipe for bad tragedy or, you know, it doesn't seem like that's any way that's gonna go well.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is he gonna do?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just like try to make the whole world feel better about themselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, maybe that would be the end of the series.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like everyone on the planet ever become self-actualized.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe it's going to be like the, what is that, uh, the Heinlein?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it Heinlein about the, uh, shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the, that's the moon as a harsh mistress.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the one where everyone's on drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Damn it, uh, shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ah, for, for, for screw it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's the opposite of nineteen eighty four.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, uh, yeah, anyway, everyone's on happy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's on happy drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's like, no, uh, yeah, it's something.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like a thousand people shouting in their cars, you know, the name of this of this word.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is Elvis Hugsley.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... so i've got a lot of bad and clean up here because my number one is the kidnapping of carry ladder milk uh... i loved lini the breakfast queen's cheshire catmobile i love the top pettie don't come around here no more tea party uh... i love how carry lot of merkedus that uh... that describes them as they're doing the drugs
[SPEAKER_02]: The drugs like they're taking the pot, they're doing the drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I love, you know, carry, sneaking out by hiding behind us.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's ludicrous and it's one of those things that like works kind of on an astro plane level, but it's so fun to watch him do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like every season, they give him something physical to do because he's such a, you know, talented physical comedian.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I loved, loved, loved Carrie and Carrie's dance.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're brushing their hair in a mirror and the struggle to lead.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I felt like that was such kind of like a beautiful little mini movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... yet that could be applicable to like internal doubts i think there's a lot of like commentary and like what it's like to be a trans person uh... cuz carry is literally has a woman trapped inside his man's body yeah and how that feels that like you know like there's two spirits inside you and your mom's telling you one thing and that send your dad sent you i just thought that stuff was was was really great
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I love that all.
[SPEAKER_02]: One thing I have to ask you guys is there's been a slight tweak to the vermillion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, where like last year it was like these these kind of wavy, uh, a drogenous women with the bull haircuts and a mustache.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've gone these full facial appliances that make them all look like, uh, Mike didka.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't, if you notice like they're, they've, they've, they've had these appliances that give them big brows and the same big kind of nose and I find it distracting, whereas I really like the aesthetic of them last year.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like the new Vermilion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the new Vermilions.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know what I noticed is there's no Fukiyama and they always seem to surround him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I guess the show thought he was superfluous, but they kept the Vermilion.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: But now I didn't notice the look.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did,
[SPEAKER_03]: feel something was different but I didn't observe it exactly what it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just bought them last year.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got a slightly upgraded costume and then yeah, all the facial nose and brow and like chin appliances.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought we're a little distracting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Huh, I don't know that I noticed their facial features as much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there's slight wardrobe upgrade.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if it's just because we don't have as many.
[SPEAKER_01]: We seem to have a lot of her million in last season.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were multiple that you could often look at and kind of see, you know, they did, even though they all look the same, they still kind of had their own uniquely defined, like cheekbones and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe, maybe I need to go back and look at that and I find that interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anything else?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's, yeah, all of kidnavin' carry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mine was about capturing carry too, and we already talked a lot about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But one thing we didn't mention is when David gets mad that Sid rejects him, and the blue bliss ooze turns red.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now, it was like, it was MDMA, but now it's more like meth.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's red.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's treading out those grapes around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they get, I guess they gave it to squirrel, so he could be a distraction while they kidnapped Carrie, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's what their whole plan was.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were luring division three.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, no, that was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: They probably used that for the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I imagined the time driver helped him with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They saw it come in and they did, or this maybe they arranged it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did seem like they sacrificed a lot of the cult members to do that, which is kind of cold on David's part.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't give a shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always more to come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder, because the other thing is like, I thought there's going to be an extreme change in behavior when the fluid went from blue to red.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, excruciatingly long scene where the red would almost get to the people that cut to the next sequence.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you'd see him like, start to inhale them in it cut.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they finally got to where like, there's a dance party.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just got faster and more intense.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was expecting some like.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I was expecting some like Eli Rothschit to break that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I maybe don't be maybe room for that in the future episodes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think we're done with our top three.
[SPEAKER_03]: We usually like have a note segment for any other random things that we didn't mention that didn't warrant a whole point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any of that Rima?
[SPEAKER_01]: The only other note that I wanted to talk about whenever you guys were talking about the kidnapping of Carrie and his dance scenes and such, I found it really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize I've enjoyed Bill or one since day one in this series, but I didn't realize that he was a professionally trained clown.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was trained in the Vaudevillian style of acting, and that's really comes into play, especially here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's had some really great, like he's great with physical comedy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's had some great dance sequences in season two when he has a whole dance sequence with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was it the broom in his lab or something?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then like the fighting when when Carrie was getting attacked maybe that was season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched season one and season two back to back just before this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So some of these might be getting blurred when Carrie was fighting in the woods and she was being attacked and taken down by the division three soldiers and he was kind of feeling the physical part of that as she would get kicked and he wouldn't fall back in the lab.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got great physical abilities and I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw him in Popeye, which is, I really like Popeye.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's the director?
[SPEAKER_03]: He did the player and mash Robert Alvin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he played, what's his name, Bill Erwin?
[SPEAKER_03]: He played Ham Gravy and he was like, I think he was like the town drunk and he would be walking along and then just kind of go into a roll and then pop back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he was also a Mr. Newell in Sesame Street.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked a little bit about how for Rook was telling Sydney, we can kind of trap David and he wouldn't be expecting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it was a lover and I just thought that was interesting because then in season two, Clark was telling Sydney that
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when she was expressing her fears about David and how he couldn't maybe turn, and he was like, well, he could also, he was kind of putting a lot on her because he's like, if you break his heart, that might make him turn, that could make him be vengeful and make him destroy the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas you, if you stayed with him or play Kate to him, that could keep him like calm and an unimaginable manipulative level.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just think it was interesting how they're kind of playing both sides of that and using Sid to kind of, you know, keep David like under control or try to manipulate him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last note that I had just Aubrey Plaza, I mean, she's fantastic, but I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear on you mentioned the look of the vermillion looking a little bit different this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I know exactly what you're going to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Aubrey Plaza to me looks a little bit different this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: She looks her looks are leaning in my opinion more towards David sister Amy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we know that she's inhabiting her body, but is it just me or I mean, I know that we saw a little eyes, but
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they're also they're also chained messing with the contacts to make her pupils very small and fixed and one scene very huge and the other to give her that slightly like even more unhinged but you might I never thought about that like maybe
[SPEAKER_02]: David's sister's genetic code is reasserting itself or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll be interested in to keep an eye on going forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just feels like because remember last season, they seem to make a big thing about Amy's consciousness still kind of being present in that body.
[SPEAKER_03]: Remember how she kind of confronted her whenever David said that his sister used to move a certain way or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she was copying some of her mannerisms or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think he said, oh, my sister used to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or she was like, like, had her hair in her mouth or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what she was saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what she
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that was kind of a big moment in that episode and in the series I hope that they don't just move away from that so I feel like I don't know a little bit that that's kind of coming out just a little bit because we know that she is in her body and I just wonder if that will kind of come into play again if Amy's consciousness is still kind of there you know I don't want that to kind of be for for nothing
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, in my opinion, it would be cool and fine if it does become a plot point, but if it doesn't and we just see her do and it look more like Amy and they never touch on it, that would be totally legion too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I would be okay with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would be okay with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's all the notes that I had.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's see, mine, I just wanted to read the lessons and time travel that we got this time.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about consequences when considering a trip backwards and time deliberate on your plan carefully.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you hope to accomplish in the past, what lives will you interact with, either casually or deliberately consider the consequences of your actions, not all temporal interactions goes planned?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we didn't see any time travel in this episode, so I feel like that might have some future implications or it's just sort of a warning that, hey, these things don't always go well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plus it's a contrast to like David's demeanor.
[SPEAKER_02]: He does not seem like he's confident or carefully planning anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's as blunder.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, here, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was just remembering how in season one, D-three's had David and they were interviewing him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think I don't know remember if it was Clark or somebody suggested that they eliminate him now before he realizes what he is.
[SPEAKER_03]: I bet they're wishing they would have done that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully couple more I like this is just small one, but when switch outlines her door I like how she kind of flicks down on one side and it just goes straight down and then she traces the top and then she kind of does a little curve on the other side and they always have that side be curved.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a nice little flourish and nice little touch.
[SPEAKER_03]: The manifestation of her powers really cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I also liked how when she showed it to him and he was gazing through and he just had this look on his face that reminded me of the old David like, wow, that's so cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he couldn't get through and it was just a nice visual thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, no, I guess that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all the notes I have.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there anything else you wanted to mention, Aira?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got the wrap-up section.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't have forced the, uh, uh, uh, uh, what was the thing that I, I probably would have saved, uh, one of the, the mini kid, the kidnapping carry a lot of my points for, yeah, next time, yeah, just whatever random stuff can go in here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did not know that the symbol for tungsten was W because another name for it is Wolfram.
[SPEAKER_01]: Learn something new.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a table.
[SPEAKER_01]: Science bitches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we have one item for the news this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: This comes from marvel.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an interview with Aubrey Plaza who of course we know as Lenny in the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lenny is at the top of the world reveal Plaza.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's living her best life.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's got a second chance at living a real human life.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's no longer being tortured by the shadow king and she's running this cult with David Holler, the psychedelic kind of manson cult.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm speaking on the energy of the cult Plaza shared Lenny loves it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's surrounded by badass women.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was cool to bring that feminine energy to the set and we're all kicking ass at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, as we saw in the season premiere episode, following the events of season two, Lenny's found love in her life with salmon and their expecting a child soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lenny's found the love of her life says pausa, she's almost ready to settle down in a weird way.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, her perfect life is threatened with the arrival of Switch, and David's sudden reliance on the new figure.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says there's a power struggle when Switch comes on board.
[SPEAKER_01]: Switches skills that David really needs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her entire life, he kind of saved her in a way, so it's hard for her to deal with Switch at first.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wants to establish her power over Switch as much as she can, but you'll see that doesn't really stick so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that was something we didn't really talk about was, you know, how Lenny was kind of dealing with Switch kind of making it known, you know, her role.
[SPEAKER_03]: that's typical cult things is the leader has his favorites and there's a pecking order and some new girl comes in and all the other people are jealous but he's she's the new favorite and you see in court you see in corporate America to like Michael Scott's assistant god damn it was his name why do I
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure everybody knows this place in the pecking order, but it's a sign of massive insecurity, but I feel like it's warranted because she's being mentally emanipulated every, you know, every step.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, she's got insecurity about her relationship, but David and all that, but she's got good reason to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, what would he, he would say assistant manager and say no assistant to the assistant manager.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting what she says in that article as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that the girls that were in the van when they pick up squirrel when he's released from division three or however you want to say he was released from division three?
[SPEAKER_01]: Those girls are credited as Manson girls.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how they're.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually how they're credited in the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: They look like kind of like me as a cult going.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they definitely have this sixties vibe and yeah, that's another thing I didn't talk about, but I've definitely flirted with the whole alternative thing in the raves and you know, I'm in San Francisco and there's this chasing of bliss but also love and you know, there's definitely some good to be had there but there's also some danger
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like this show mostly presents the bad stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not really focused on the dark side of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the dark side.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's get into some mental notes.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is our listener responses segment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So first when we have us from Elliott Nelson, great episode for season three episode one as always.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that Dan Stevens interview has me thinking, did he actually just forget there are twenty seven chapters not twenty six or was he giving us a subtle hint that he dies in chapters twenty six, hence being able to explore the character for only twenty six chapters?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I think he was not in an episode last season and that's why he said that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I almost said this, like, when we're talking about Aubrey Plaza's insights on Lini, is that, like, I've, like, this, this, Mark's, twenty, twenty will be, I'll be doing bald move for ten years.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been doing television coverage like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not what I was listening, but I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I, one of the thing I've learned is, like, actor interviews,
[SPEAKER_02]: are often as confounding as they are illuminating for several different reasons.
[SPEAKER_02]: One, I don't know that every actor has a great solid grasp on their character.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the main cast usually do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because like a lot of these people like they literally just get to script the pages that they're in, they shoot those things and they watch it, they watch the whole thing like like we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it did tend to like, you know, inflate their own importance or get like character deep beats wrong because it's what felt right when they were filming doesn't feel like it feels like it's putting the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like a lot of this stuff, like number one, he just probably got confused.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number two, maybe he is lying and Noah Hawley told him to lie or maybe there's like there's just like, it's just another level of the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: He might have just said the wrong thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do that all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't hear anything swore through a nine inch plank that John Snow was really dead, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I commend Timmoiler for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Stephen Young should have done the same thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, where are we?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's your turn, Aaron.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Casey Mayer, can you guys dig into a little bit on Amy Holler and Lynney?
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't seem to wrap my head around how Lynney resides in Amy's body.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did Lynney really exist in the asylum or was she always part of David?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did she exist when she was trying to sell the stove?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand when she was real and when she was in forrook and then used Amy's body.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does forrook still controller in any way?
[SPEAKER_03]: So Lenny met David in Clockworks and they became friends and then for some reason the shadow king made David remember his old druggy friend Benny as Lenny, but Benny was actually this like older guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the stove thing was with Benny and when they said it's always blue and they were just doing drugs and like Trashing his therapist plays all this stuff that happened before clockworks before I actually met Lenny what was Benny but it shadow king fucked with his memories and made him remember that as Lenny
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe it was because well, then once Lenny was killed, so what happened is when Sid and David first touched and switched bodies and Sid inside David's body freaked out and accidentally killed Lenny, stuck her inside the wall.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then the shadow king got Lenny's consciousness or whatever, and took with him inside David, I think, or maybe in the after playing whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the shadow king from then on took on the form of Lenny, and so when you saw Lenny after that being really sassy towards David and fucking with him and even in
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was the shadow king and made so one theory of why he made David remember Benny as Lenny was just sort of strengthened the connection to that visual image or something so he would trust her more or something I don't know I'd never really totally made sense to me but anyways then in season two we saw that then you started to see Lenny's like astral form
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that was trying to get out and then then they took Lenny and put her inside Amy's body.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now we're seeing Lenny again, the person that David met in Clockworks.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my take on it who knows with his show, but it's about what I can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my understanding.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, John Hoskins says season three episode two was a bit of a let down after the premiere felt like one of those episodes that's setting up the next big thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Still great visuals and performances and things happen, but not like the first episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would kind of agree with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I wouldn't call it a let down, but like a run you said it to.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't quite as good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, still got the big fat pig though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and again, like very few episodes, very few television shows can maintain like the pacing of episode one throughout a whole season, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to see some sharp left turns that this show's known for, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So you got to construct a plot, so it's machinations workout.
[SPEAKER_02]: And every, like I remember when we were covering Breaking Bad, like every three or four episodes, they'd have one of these like,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, kind of, and people would freak out about, oh my god, break is, and this is over.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, yeah, Legion has got six more episodes and it will be over, but I expect it'll be plenty of crazy fireworks to come.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can't wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: Casey Robertson says, great episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: The visuals were awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love the entire Allison Wonderland Motifs, the Cheshire Cat on the Van, the Mad Hatter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoy the interaction between Carrying Carey, very trippy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also glad they had the scene with David and Sid.
[SPEAKER_01]: With the long break between seasons, it was a nice refresher to remind us that even though David believes he's innocent, Sid hasn't forgiven him, and even if he were to go back in time, he's still the same David.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really think the only way he could fix this is if he were able to travel all the way back and prevent fruit from ever invading him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can't wait till the podcast and next week's episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure that's going to fix everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm just saying consequences.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nope, not at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything will be great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Matthew J. Morrison.
[SPEAKER_02]: So good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Love the Alice in Wonderland bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I noticed the way the van is painted right away.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as soon as just one of those random things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I, I got, I wish I had a mini van just like a paint like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Covering carpet on the inside.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of Manson's girls in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go say loaded with crazy psychic girls as it's kitchen knives.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a blue jugs.
[SPEAKER_03]: Rory Tom says, I have some thoughts.
[SPEAKER_03]: Future Sid was missing her left arm.
[SPEAKER_03]: The arm that now has a tattoo of a simple face in the word me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Will it be David or fruit could remove it to blur her sense of self?
[SPEAKER_03]: David, how'd say?
[SPEAKER_03]: Bill Irwin is a genius the timing of his sequence in the clock room is impeccable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Frook is the gaslighting king he's playing this whole thing and all the players are at his disposal or maybe it's just howly who's gaslighting all of us.
[SPEAKER_03]: Frook has experienced with time travelers and has been alive for two thousand years but were they linear years?
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Furuk is enjoying all this way too much.
[SPEAKER_03]: What would be the fun in that?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm all for Ruk.
[SPEAKER_03]: A usual in my brain hurts, but damn this show is awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hurt's in a good way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next one's from Jamie Henry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Random thought about chapter twenty last week's episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: The entire episode was essentially a forty-five minute long pre-title sequence, freaking amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: About chapter twenty one Bill Irwin is Carrie has such a physical presence.
[SPEAKER_01]: The scene when he's following the cult number around an order to sneak out of the door.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not forgetting his jacket of course was wonderful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could watch him move silently around a room forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shortly after that he saw Carrie in the mirror.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then they're clothing switched and they started dancing all the while arguing about whose dance number it was and who should lead.
[SPEAKER_01]: The two of them together always make me happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course Carrie and that scene was actually David but still.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carrie wearing Carrie's jumpsuit was perfection.
[SPEAKER_01]: Two, when David was talking to Sid and then Switch, it seems to me like he wants to time travel back to his beginning and change everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps he thinks he can fix all his problems if he's never infected by the shadow king.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've a feeling that won't be so easy and most likely won't work out the way he thinks it will.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you guys for doing the podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is such a beautiful, confusing, fascinating piece of television that nobody else I know watches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listening to you guys helps me make sense of it and enjoy it even more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Peace and love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's nice to hear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I want some of the red juice.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you, Ray?
[SPEAKER_02]: Just to switch it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a red.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get some red juice feedback going nicely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's call it you guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm scared.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, that's our show up to the twenty one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Remo and Aeron.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was really fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks, Aeron.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, do you guys?
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want to get in touch, send us some red juice.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can email that or send a voice message to us at Legion at podcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find us on the web at Facebook.com slash Legion pod.
[SPEAKER_02]: And be sure to check out Jim and I as other shows at ballmove.com and Jason and Remis at podcastica.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we got Stranger Things starting up tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm marathoning and podcasting.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's starting tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: My fourth thanks Netflix.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, do you know about locking key?
[SPEAKER_03]: Aaron locking key?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's it's an amazing comic and Netflix is now going to do a show about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm super excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna have to check it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, that is our show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I just have the drugs now?