[SPEAKER_01]: And my controlling or just trying to feel okay of all the modes of thinking that adult children develop to survive their childhood control seems to be the most troublesome to address and that's from the big red book.
[SPEAKER_01]: At its core, control isn't just about managing people or outcomes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about managing discomfort within ourselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Control becomes a coping strategy for an unbearable and hernal experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: The anxiety of unpredictability of the fear of rejection, shame of feeling too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: When our self-worth feels conditional or fragile,
[SPEAKER_01]: We often try to shape the outside world to see what we're feeling inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I can make sure they're okay, maybe I'll feel okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I can keep this situation from going off the rails, maybe I won't have to feel like a failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Control then is rarely about power.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about protection.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the armor we build as children when we fault small and safe and utterly powerless to affect the chaos around us.
[SPEAKER_01]: As adults, this can show up in ways we don't always recognize as control.
[SPEAKER_01]: We micromanage how we're perceived, obsessively planned for every possible outcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Over explained to avoid being misunderstood.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were played conversations in our heads, searching for what we should have said differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give advice when no one asks what draw before we can be left.
[SPEAKER_01]: We work hard to control tone, timing, or environment because feeling in control makes us feel less at risk.
[SPEAKER_01]: But underneath these behaviors is often a terrified inner child doing everything possible to stay safe in a world that wants once felt anything but
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the most confusing challenges for adult children about call and dysfunctional families is figuring out whether we're being controlling or simply making a healthy attempt to meet a need.
[SPEAKER_01]: For many of us, our needs were ignored, minimized, or even shamed growing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: We learned early on that expressing a need might lead to rejection, punishment, or being labeled as too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we adapted.
[SPEAKER_01]: We learned to suppress our needs or to try to get them met indirectly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Often through control, managing others' reactions, fixing, pleasing with drawing over communicating or seeking reassurance in subtle ways that gave us a sense of safety without having to risk direct vulnerability.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of this history, even our healthy bids for connection or clarity, can feel suspicious to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We second guess ourselves, we wonder, am I beam manipulative?
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I trying to control the outcome?
[SPEAKER_01]: This confusion makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Many of us never had models for what healthy, need-meeting looks like.
[SPEAKER_01]: We weren't taught how to ask directly and hold space for, yes or no, we weren't taught that our needs were valid.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the work now is learning how to recognize the difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not through shame or over analysis, but through curiosity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was I trying to connect or was I trying to control?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was I asking or was I demanding without saying so?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was I rooted in fear or grounded in self-worth?
[SPEAKER_01]: So some questions for y'all, where does control show up in your life today?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you struggle telling the difference between whether you're being controlling or making a healthy attempt to meet a need and have you tended to be the one trying to stay in control or the one adapting to somebody else's control?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like as scapegoats, and I think that it probably applies to other roles, but I think for a lot of us, we weren't just blamed for the chaos that was existing within our family system, but I think a lot of the times we were subtly trained to believe that
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we deserved it and just this belief that we're inherently flawed or too much or not enough gets ingrained in us.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that as a result of that, we often find ourselves in relationships, whether that's romantically professionally or still in our family where we are controlled, whether that's
[SPEAKER_01]: emotionally or manipulated or just made to feel responsible for somebody else's dysfunction because there's still a part of us that believes like if we just try harder or if we stay small or that if we earn love that the pain will stop or will be enough or will actually be lovable and I just think about staying financially entangled with my parents
[SPEAKER_01]: and just growing up in a home where my dad was so controlling with finances and it was not really about money.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really about power and then being labeled the scapegoat in the identified patient and just being made to feel like I was the problem and just how much of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then in adulthood, it's like even though I'm sober, I'm healing, I'm self-aware, finding myself
[SPEAKER_01]: like stuck in functional freeze over thinking procrastinating self sabotaging and then having this financial control of my parents still over me and having these financial ties be a way of like allowing their mistreatment of me being afraid to set boundaries or speak up for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: and just being stuck in this system and in this pattern and partially feeling responsible for my parents control over me, but I have to remember that it's not just circumstantial, it's like systematic and hard to break out of and I used to really
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch what I said, like I wouldn't speak up for myself out of fear that they would cut me off, but I've come to a place now where I am speaking up for myself, but I think that I still have, I just have a lot of shame for the ways in which I've allowed them to control me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I want to share something that happened this morning that was kind of the inspiration for wanting to talk about this one aspect of like am I being controlling or am I like trying to get a need met?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to talk about it too much, but I'm talking to a new guy and it's going really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to send him a text earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was sitting there and trying to figure out like, am I?
[SPEAKER_01]: seeking connection or am I trying to be controlling am I seeking reassurance am I trying to get validation am I trying to like treat my abandonment issues right and so it's like trying to balance and figure that out as far as am I acting in my trauma or am I being vulnerable and seeking connection with somebody
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, of course, I consulted my favorite therapist, known as ChatGPTA.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like a few questions that it was asking me, was I trying to force, was I trying to force a particular outcome, or punish him if I wasn't going to, if he didn't comply?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was no like I was just I was seeking reassurance like not coercion.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no threat.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no guilt trick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was I could I tolerate if I didn't get a response back?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I could tolerate if there was a delay in getting a response.
[SPEAKER_01]: Could I tolerate that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did I send my own need openly or was I being manipulative?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, you sent a light, you're sending a direct light-hearted message.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no hidden agenda here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you leave space like for his real life in timing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you just sent one text and you're going to let him respond on his schedule.
[SPEAKER_01]: And are you gonna feel ashamed after you do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: And no, they said, this is seeking connection, like this is not classic.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not you trying to control.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just interesting of like, how do I put myself out there and be vulnerable?
[SPEAKER_01]: But also I have a pattern of, I mean, God, I think about the things that I used to do, like the things that I would text guys just to get something back at, like I would make up these outlandest stories or just, you know, just different things of just,
[SPEAKER_01]: trying to get any sort of little breadcrum of attention, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have to kind of balance that out and make sure that I'm not coming from a place of like, I'm trying to just be a feel I'm only going to be okay if I hear from this person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was kind of an interesting exercise for me to put that in practice this morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the floor is open for I know nobody has control issues here.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought I wasn't going to take me a longer to figure out how to raise my hand.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I was ready to go with my control of sheets.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for the reading and thanks for your share.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad to be here.
[SPEAKER_04]: I celebrated eight years sober on Friday.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was really happy about that when I'm reflecting a little bit on like how different my life is now compared to then.
[SPEAKER_04]: And like, yes, saying anything to get someone to talk to you, the desperation then was like,
[SPEAKER_04]: I used to feel like I was ponds gum, like I just felt lower than low.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so compared to that, like my life is incredible today.
[SPEAKER_04]: My life is leaps and bounds better, like not drinking and using drugs.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like a one eighty.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so doing this kind of stuff now in ACA work is kind of like I feel like leveling up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's just this like emotional sobriety layer that I'm trying to wade through.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this reading the whole time I was like, oh my god, this is already my feeling so bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the thing that I was making me think of.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was journaling and reflecting the other day.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was wondering if I was breadcrumming my own mom.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I feel like I keep the connection open enough to get like let us have a relationship, but I don't want to talk to her so much that I fully let her in like deeply.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I use chat she Bts well and I was talking to chat GPT about that and.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think with how parentified I've been, like it's so interesting, I take on so much responsibility in terms of that dynamic between us.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I lead a lot of our phone calls, or I check in on her, ask her she's doing in different stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And sometimes she'll ask me stuff, and then I'll respond in kind of like an open-hearted way.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then she'll just thumbs up the message and then like move on.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was kind of reflecting on it, like, okay, I don't think I'm breadcoming her.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I'm just kind of an open-hearted person and then, you know, if she doesn't respond, you know, that's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what I try to come back to in myself is, can I be okay either way?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like if she responded this way or that way, you know,
[SPEAKER_04]: At the end of the day, can I fundamentally be okay, no matter what what she says.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the other thing that it was making me think of was just even in our group and like the forum and like posting and stuff like that, I've noticed if I feel like I'm rewriting a message more than twice or something, I'm like, okay, maybe I'm really overthinking or I'm worried about what other people are going to think or
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe my inner child is active somehow.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have neurodivergence, which probably a lot of us do, but I relate things to myself to relate.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, oh, this is how I feel.
[SPEAKER_04]: To me, that feels supportive, but to other people, I'm worried like, oh, I'm making it all about myself or to the dawn.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's totally echoes of my past when my mom was like, you're entitled.
[SPEAKER_04]: You make everything about you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that in the other?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I also feel like I'm like, oh, I need to look at how other people talk to see what's normal.
[SPEAKER_04]: What what a normal people say.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's the thing too of just trying to be open-hearted.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can I actually feel like I said something authentic and like I really meant what I said?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and if I feel okay with that, then it's like, okay, I can just turn it over like,
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just have to be okay with me at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm starting to feel like if my inner child is activated, I can go and turn back and word and do something for myself, rather.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what Andrew was saying about connection is like, I really want to connect with people.
[SPEAKER_04]: I really want to support other people and I want to be supported.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like you have to be vulnerable to receive that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's an interesting like line and balance.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I want to connect what I'm terrified to connect.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I have been pushing through and trying to connect.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then sometimes feeling that shame afterward.
[SPEAKER_04]: and just being like, you know what, I'm not curing cancer here, like it's gonna be okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, this reading, I related a lot to it and I think for me being the oldest daughter, being really preentified, I've always felt super, super responsible for other people's feelings.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's just gonna take a lot of gentle work with myself over time and like trying to heal with you guys in connection and, you know, with the people in my life and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So thanks for letting me share.
[SPEAKER_07]: So the whole discussion around being in control, it's been as someone who's been highly perentified.
[SPEAKER_07]: I spent thirty years of my life sort of looking at this need to plan the sort of the plan to get the hell out of where I grew up, the plan on figuring out how to take care of myself.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then as I started to get older, starting to think about
[SPEAKER_07]: What does the future look like when I stop working?
[SPEAKER_07]: So all of these things of planning and nothing is living in the moment, nothing is living in today.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's all about thinking about things that I can control when you can't really control the future.
[SPEAKER_07]: But there's this situation that I struggle with is managing the perception of competence in my chosen profession.
[SPEAKER_07]: while at the same time choosing to avoid vulnerability.
[SPEAKER_07]: So it makes me talk myself out of doing things that are just for fun or things that would be an enjoyable experience.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it sort of shows up in in odd ways where with the people and closest to like at home with my wife, it shows up as Nate the pet aunt, Nate chilling up and correcting his wife.
[SPEAKER_07]: And that is not a good way of living your life.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I've been
[SPEAKER_07]: I then reminded that I do that from time to time.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think it's getting better, but I think it's something that it's not usually good to try to correct your wife about things that usually doesn't go very well.
[SPEAKER_07]: But then it also shows up as
[SPEAKER_07]: a strange way the flip side of that is showing up as being a people pleaser in sort of casual random kinds of interactions.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's a weird situation, but it just feels like that combination of things
[SPEAKER_07]: It just feels like you're missing out on things in the world.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's kind of like, how do you figure out how to let yourself be more vulnerable?
[SPEAKER_07]: And do the things that you think you'd like to do, but that you're really, really good at talking yourself out of.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think that like the loss of control shows up in those sorts of things.
[SPEAKER_07]: And if you don't let yourself have those random brief moments of something, the joy of life doesn't really get to show up.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I appreciate having a few minutes to share and it's what a great reading today and I hope everyone's having a good sound right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this reading was really there was so many parts to it that I could relate to and especially the control piece and as far as it goes with relationships and you know I tend to always be I've said it before I tend to kind of push people towards relationships with me but then I'm also the one that will be the first to leave and I think it definitely goes back to that control and having to be
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I leave before they leave me and then I control that amount of hurt that I receive and I think it's also it shows up in how close I let people get to me, you know, I won't even friendships.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't let people get super close because usually that's when I let them in too far and then I get hurt and then I just want to kind of retreat and and not let them in any closer and I think it kind of comes down to also
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, most of my life, it's been kind of like, you know, tap those feelings down whenever something's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't let it show.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I posted that long ago in the chat, something about my mom telling me, don't feel just stop feeling that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in her mind, it's just easy, just shut it off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just turn it off and you'll be fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll be fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just can't do that anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done it for so many years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it actually felt really, really, it was a relief to be able to say that to her and say,
[SPEAKER_00]: Look mom, I can feel these feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the end of the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing's gonna fall apart and it's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to feel sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to feel hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to feel all these feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as long as I'm not letting it control how my life moves forward, then I think it's all healthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are all healthy, healthy things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've had, I still have moments, I'm working on it, but I still have moments where I do feel the need to isolate
[SPEAKER_00]: and have that control over the people that are in my life at that moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even over fourth of July weekend, I was just having a really rough weekend with some things that were happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just really felt the need to isolate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a couple things that were, I was scheduled to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one got canceled, which was a huge relief.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other, I said, I couldn't make it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I ended up isolating the whole weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I talked to my counselor about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I know this isn't the right answer, I shouldn't have done that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said, how do you know the difference between isolation and just needing time for yourself?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought about that and really what it comes down to is how was I feeling internally over that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I was feeling pity and sadness over the whole thing, that's a whole different feeling than just feeling finding peace and solitude in my own company.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was not feeling that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was definitely feeling the pity and sadness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it took me the whole weekend to get out of that funk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, but it took me the whole weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was kind of tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's on going for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's kind of a constant work in progress to keep working towards getting better with all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have a friend and I have a guy friend who has really kind of been my mirror the last year or so.
[SPEAKER_00]: in kind of helping me work through some of the issues that I've had to work through a lot of my band and my issues and things like that and this control issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's been a lot of times where we've been able to have really, really great communication and I have not had that in the past with a lot of people and especially not in previous relationships and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's moments where how kind of get wrapped up and whatever it is I've got going on in my head over the situation
[SPEAKER_00]: And rather than retreat and tap it down and not talk about it, I've done the opposite with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been really, really healthy for me to have that and have somebody that I could work through some of those issues with.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've been able to talk about some of the things or miscommunications and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't always hear the answers I want to hear from him, but I always have heard what I needed to hear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that was what was really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a huge takeaway for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks guys, that's all I had.
[SPEAKER_06]: between this meeting and listening to people share and listen to some more of the dial of fully feeling the Pete Walker book this morning and something came up during listening to that which had talked about like the negative self talk and like the belittling oneself and like how that became
[SPEAKER_06]: normal to do that before other people could do it so that we would want it feel as much hurt when other people did it if we were already doing it to ourselves and.
[SPEAKER_06]: It reminded me of a time when I was little and I was a golfer and.
[SPEAKER_06]: Always trying to swing golf club any chance that I got and.
[SPEAKER_06]: I would swing it inside the house and my mom would say don't don't be swinging that golf club in the house you're gonna put a hole in the ceiling and I thought I was too good ever let that happen and one one time I just non-challantly just let go of it a little bit and there goes right into the ceiling little tiny hole and What happened after I did that was I went into this complete rage just
[SPEAKER_06]: calling myself a stupid mother fucker and like all the same things that my dad would say to himself.
[SPEAKER_06]: And the results of that was there was no consequence.
[SPEAKER_06]: I did not get in trouble.
[SPEAKER_06]: I did not yell or to yell that.
[SPEAKER_06]: It worked.
[SPEAKER_06]: It belittling myself first stops that from happening.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that
[SPEAKER_06]: Notice that has been coming up a lot lately.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like another level of control that I didn't know existed in my life.
[SPEAKER_06]: The amount of times that I will just throw myself under the bus or talk so lowly about myself to others to set the expectations so low that there's no way that I can disappoint somebody if I've already let them know that I'm a piece of shit anyway.
[SPEAKER_06]: So don't expect much from me.
[SPEAKER_06]: So just thinking about that as being a way to control.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's that definitely bringing up a lot and it makes sense just where that came from.
[SPEAKER_06]: But I'm very grateful today to really be able to recognize that because if I pay attention to the facts and especially in the recovery world when I've where I've got a lot of
[SPEAKER_06]: knowledge and I'd really enjoy talking recovery with people and get reminded from working at a recovery center for a year.
[SPEAKER_06]: The number of people that still come up to me and thank me for how much that I helped them.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's just so many more things that I want to accomplish with my life and
[SPEAKER_06]: starting to recognize that I'm getting in my own way with all that stuff that still just programmed up here to convince myself that I'm not good enough from that smart enough, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Don't know how to do something.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it was really just a layer of control that prevents myself from putting myself out there, fear failure, it's exhausting to go through that cycle over and over again to just look at the situation and go, well, I never even fucking tried.
[SPEAKER_06]: to set there and convince myself that I would never be able to accomplish it.
[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, the glad that we're talking about this and looking forward to exploring a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_06]: So thanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, control.
[SPEAKER_02]: What it brings up for me is that
[SPEAKER_02]: My family would all say that I'm a control freak and I have to be in control of everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's one thing that makes me a bad person and our family.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's more about they're the other ones with the control because they want me to follow the family rules.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I step outside of that,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, just conform, Carol, just follow along with all the lies and the dysfunction and the rules that we follow.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if I'm doing something outside of that, then I'm the one that needs to have control.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my sense of control comes from growing up in a family where my other sister was the identified patient needed all the attention.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I was, you know, emotionally
[SPEAKER_02]: neglected and needs neglected and it was just I was I learned that I need to take care of everything for myself because nobody else is going to be there for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I really learned is that I need to control my emotions and my needs and to have none to have none of those things at all in the context of my family.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't until I have two older siblings that were given up for adoption before I was born.
[SPEAKER_02]: My mother was
[SPEAKER_02]: and with mother, you know, at that time it was the worst thing you could do to a family was to have a child on a wedlock.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so I have two older siblings and it wasn't until reunited with my older sister that her and I were hanging out and getting to know each other and she reflected back to me that she says, you're a totally different person when you're around the family versus when we're just hanging out.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was, what's up with that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you're around them, you're just
[SPEAKER_02]: quiet and muted and and you just don't seem like yourself and I said, oh wow, I never thought about that, but it's because they don't accept me for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to be a different version of myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to control my needs, my emotions, my thoughts, my feelings, my views on everything and and so that was some big insights.
[SPEAKER_02]: So my my control is about myself have no needs, have no feelings and conform to the rules if you want to be accepted and different.
[SPEAKER_02]: different groups.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I also have learned that if I'm to rely on anyone else to meet my needs, I'm not safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I've been working on that feeling of letting go and letting other people meet some needs for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't need to be in control in situations that are safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's identifying those people that are safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: that are going to be reliable and that are going to be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's part of, part of why I'm glad to be here with you all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for letting me share.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I could throw a while.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a hell of a subject to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where's the show of for me?
[SPEAKER_03]: It shows up daily for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I second guess myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: I doubt myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just like Stephen was saying, I might did those, Stephen, because I'm like, you're just making exactly what I'm thinking after times.
[SPEAKER_03]: And having that control is, I heard my father always used to say to me, he goes, control yourself, throw some boy, you know, I'm acting up or goofing off or whatever, just being a kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that being a kid is, you know, it's taking away at such a young age
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, as we grew up, you know, or the yelling starts, and then, you know, it's a cycle, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's this family cycle of trauma, you know, the yelling, the screaming, and then the hitting, and the abuse starts, and it's like, oh shit, you know, nothing I, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was heard, not tonight again, you know, not tonight again, Ron, let's not do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like a troll shows up every day in myself, whenever I hit that shame spiral, and it comes up, and I wish I had that control, wish I could control those emotions of going stopping, you know, stop, do your, your spiraling, you're thinking about this shit, your,
[SPEAKER_03]: Saying things that don't make any sense in your head or saying things that hurts the person that really loves you and cares for you and and certain types of communication skills of learning what that control is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And how I can control my outlook on a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: But having that control.
[SPEAKER_03]: of my emotions.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm striving for and trying to learn it every day.
[SPEAKER_03]: But damn it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's hard to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm like Mr. Moston Rollercoaster.
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone gets to hang around with me for a whole day.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get to show you all kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially if you
[SPEAKER_03]: break a piece of glass on a stove, I'll show you how to.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're building a machine, guys.
[SPEAKER_08]: So just listening to the shares and talking about the topic of control and from childhood, you know, in dysfunctional systems, it's like we don't have control.
[SPEAKER_08]: You're never given control.
[SPEAKER_08]: That's it's true for me real quick.
[SPEAKER_08]: Then how you get control of things, that's your emotion, that's your anger, that bottles up and you hold on to it.
[SPEAKER_08]: You just live a lifetime of just being repressed.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, and as I've shared over the last few weeks, man, this is the X is finally moving out.
[SPEAKER_08]: And just over the last week and a half, it's just slowly watching.
[SPEAKER_08]: Just this life that you try to build, just go away.
[SPEAKER_08]: And you realize, like, you don't have control of shit.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, my kid is still hurting.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I can't fucking take that firmer.
[SPEAKER_08]: I can't do anything to fix it.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I have just this anger that starts to well up because I can't fucking take it.
[SPEAKER_08]: I can't take it firmer.
[SPEAKER_08]: And let her be free.
[SPEAKER_08]: I can't fucking free myself to just speak my mind when I see the things that need to be spoken done.
[SPEAKER_08]: because I'm gonna be afraid that I'm told that I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_08]: Because I don't have that control.
[SPEAKER_08]: And then if I do lose control and I get angry and I yell, then I'm just fucking monster because I'm screaming and yelling and I'm loud and I'm big and it's, and you assholes just don't fucking pay attention.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, just don't fucking hear it, and that's the one thing that my kid screamed in my face today, she's like, you're not fucking hearing me.
[SPEAKER_08]: And he just kind of broke me down.
[SPEAKER_08]: And it reminds me of this scene from a movie man, and it's called Instinct.
[SPEAKER_08]: And it's Cuban Goody Jr.
[SPEAKER_08]: And it's Anthony Hawkins, man.
[SPEAKER_08]: And Anthony Hawkins is this dude that was out with the, like, trying to conserve him and he's looked with the apes and he's his wild dude and he's in prison and Cuban Goody Jr.
[SPEAKER_08]: This is psychologist and it's supposed to like, you know, break this dude down and save him and then do this other shit at one point.
[SPEAKER_08]: Anthony Hawkins plays this psychotic fucking place and he's in a prison and he
[SPEAKER_08]: It's this piece of fucking duct tape and he slaps it on his fucking mouth.
[SPEAKER_08]: And he's like, you know, what have you lost?
[SPEAKER_08]: And the whole point of that scene is like, you know, he thinks he is like, I've lost control.
[SPEAKER_08]: And he's like, no, you're wrong.
[SPEAKER_08]: And he's like, and the end of it is like my illusion.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, like we're given this illusion that we have control of our lives and the things that we have around them and most of the times, we've really just fucking done.
[SPEAKER_08]: And it translates to me in this place now where it's like,
[SPEAKER_08]: I think I have control of something like, like, and then I see, like, my kids spending and I can't fucking do anything to save her.
[SPEAKER_08]: And when she's scared shitless too, you know, and finally I have to like sit down and like get on one knee and make sure like we have eye contact and look at her and tell her, I fucking feel those same things, the uneasiness of the situation that was created in the environment that I allowed to happen.
[SPEAKER_08]: and the loss of control that the thing that I could have controlled over the entirety of this thing is like me being such a dysfunctional fucking person and allowing this dysfunction to continue to go on without setting a boundary with selling myself to try to save somebody else not realizing that I'm fucking fifty percent of the problem.
[SPEAKER_08]: In that whole thing it's like the only thing that I had control of is myself and what I do
[SPEAKER_08]: and the role that I played in, like, now trying to break this fucking curse.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, this does functionality, like sitting there looking at my kid going, hey, I need to do something right now with you.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, and let me know what that is.
[SPEAKER_08]: And then realizing that, like, I'm not in a place like, I wasn't in a place earlier.
[SPEAKER_08]: I was in an emotional state.
[SPEAKER_08]: I couldn't receive what she was trying to tell me.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, and so we have to sit back and I have to look at it and I have to essentially strip myself bare in front of her, going, hey, I have fucked up.
[SPEAKER_08]: Let me know what it is and give me a moment to absorb that.
[SPEAKER_08]: So then I can then present to you how I can best be of help to you.
[SPEAKER_08]: And get you regulated and at the same time learn how to regulate myself and be that person that I need to be from my child in order to not have them sitting in a room like this later on and why the fuck did my dad do something?
[SPEAKER_08]: Why did they allow me to say with somebody that I didn't feel comfortable with?
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's the thing, you know, my kid is telling me, I'm not comfortable with either of y'all motherfuckers right now.
[SPEAKER_08]: Both of y'all have been shitty.
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't trust you.
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't trust her.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I don't have anywhere to fucking turn to.
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, and the only thing that I can tell my kid is I'm doing my best in trying to do my therapeutic work, be in peer support and work through those things that we have for them.
[SPEAKER_08]: Those are the things that I'm trying to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess I'm having this weird like I guess it's I feel weird because of them out of control but plus I I went to a yoga like event at a winery and It was the craziest thing because I'm seeing during yoga It's this beautiful setting.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's this like picturesque moment and All I could do is just start crying out of nowhere
[SPEAKER_05]: But get this guys, it was happy tears.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I've never had that, like, my whole life where I'm just crying.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I just, I'm like, I feel happy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is this what happiness feels like?
[SPEAKER_05]: And for the whole meditation, I kept thinking about, you know, when I was younger, I would journal and I would say, I'll be happy when.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be happy when.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I find a boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be happy when I get married.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be happy when I get a degree.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be happy when I get through this.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be happy when I get through that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I was never happy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I got through all the things.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then that happy one never came.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what's wrong with me?
[SPEAKER_05]: I would journal that a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why do I feel this way?
[SPEAKER_05]: What's wrong with me?
[SPEAKER_05]: So I was new something was wrong, but I didn't know why or what.
[SPEAKER_05]: And recently, I've been feeling happiness.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess that's what this is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm also waiting for like my shoes to fall off, like both of them, not just the other shoe, like both shoes to fall off because it's scary and uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's not weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's amazing, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, how cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I get to give this gift of happiness to my kids one for so long.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought something was wrong with me.
[SPEAKER_05]: And honestly, on the same person, then I now, which is now my head thinks differently.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now I have more confidence.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's crazy to think that when you start seeing the light of like the dysfunctional family,
[SPEAKER_05]: That's when like when you have boundaries and you have distance and you finally like see that light like this has been a six seven year journey probably longer but six or seven year journey of waking up and then I said this on is this the light everyone has felt always and now I've been in the shit show my whole life and I'm just feeling this now like I've lived under this blanket for like forty years
[SPEAKER_05]: And also, like my family members will never feel this light.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's crazy because I remember the trauma and I remember the pain and yeah, that comes back in a second, like I said, my shoes could fall off and I'm not even using that phrase to break, but that's what I'm using it because my shoes could fall off and I'm scared.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm scared of that because now I know what it feels like, you know, and
[SPEAKER_05]: things come up like, you know, even in dating now, I went to a speed dating.
[SPEAKER_05]: And normally I say no to everyone.
[SPEAKER_05]: This time I just had three matches.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they were all good people.
[SPEAKER_05]: They all had good jobs.
[SPEAKER_05]: They all seemed, I mean, as much as you can tell, and like a short period, they all reached out to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I started freaking out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because up to this point, I've never met a really good person that just wasn't right for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't know that all the fucked up people that were wrong for me that I was like, yeah, let's do this.
[SPEAKER_05]: So crazy.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I just feel like it's scary too, because I have to navigate what it's like to like actually make my own choices and say like, I don't want to do this or I do want to do this or I actually have people even worse email me and say nice things and ask for my number and want to take me out the dinner and all the things that you always see in the movies that people do in dating, but I've never experienced and
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, I don't want to say like, oh, they won, just because they were nice.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because everyone else wasn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just just, uh, weird euphoria.
[SPEAKER_05]: My kids are with a babysitter right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't even know, like, I actually took care of myself and paid someone to give me a break.
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, not a normal occurrence for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: So
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyways, I'm glad to have you guys, and I think for a topic, I'm trying to let go of all this control.